WEBVTT - Thankful: The Science of Gratitude 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:13.520 I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey you, welcome to 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.720 Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.400 and I'm Joe McCormick, and hey, Robert jam band trivia 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.599 for you. Do you know where the name of the 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.680 Grateful Dead comes from? Oh? Man, you know, I'm not 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.200 a huge dead head. I really love that that track 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.400 Dark Star, But yeah, I I never really gave it 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:32.920 a lot of thought. I know they have the like 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.120 a sort of a mascot of like this medieval looking 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.279 skeleton with the hair and and all, and it's it's 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.120 a cool name, but I actually never gave it a 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.920 lot of thought. I didn't know until just recently I 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.720 found out the answer. The name of the band comes 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.080 from when a member I think it was Jerry Garcia, 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.959 it might have been another member. Somebody found in an 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.240 encyclopedia an entry for a thing that was that was 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.800 already an existing phrase called the Grateful Dead. So what 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.080 is that? Well, it turns out that the Grateful Dead 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.640 is an archetypal folk tale motif that appears in lots 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.000 of cultures around the world, usually not as a story 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.240 on its own, but as like a piece of a story, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.800 a sort of like scene in a story that shows 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.160 up in tons of different folk tale cycles. According to 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.840 the late Great American folklore scholar Stith Thompson, versions of 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.200 this tailor found especially in European and Asian lore, though 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.800 I think you might find it elsewhere too. But to 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.160 read from Thompson's description quote, in all these tales, we 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.800 learn of a hero who finds that creditors are refusing 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.039 to permit the burial of a corpse until the dead 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:45.000 man's debts have been paid. The hero spends his last 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.520 penny to ransom the dead man's body and to secure 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.840 his burial. Later, in the course of his adventures, the 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.080 hero is joined by a mysterious stranger who agrees to 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.680 help him in all his endeavors. The stranger is the 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.080 grateful dead Man. The only condition which the dead man 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.400 makes when he agrees to help the hero is that 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.160 all winnings which the latter makes shall be equally divided. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.840 In all the stories, the hero eventually wins a wife, 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.960 and the helper demands his half. Usually, the dead man 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.160 interferes in time to prevent the actual cutting. In two 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.240 of the woman, so multiple strange elements there. Number one, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.520 of course, it reminds me of the like King Solomon 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.240 and the Baby story, but it also reminds me of 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.760 other I mean, I think it's extremely common to have 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.960 what would you call this dynamic folk tale motifs where 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.360 someone is asked to make a promise about what they 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.600 will do with some kind of future reward or something, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.640 but then the reward they receive is not compatible with 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.920 the promise they made. I think of the examples in 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.200 like Sir Gawain and the Green Night, where uh the 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:53.840 Sir Gawain in some versions of the story, I think 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.600 Sir Gawain stays with the host, who they say each 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.639 day they will they will share what they have one 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.080 in the day with the other one. So the one guy, 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.600 the host, goes out hunting and he comes back and 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.120 he shares like the boar that he caught with Sir Gawain. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.760 But Sir Gawain instead receives a kiss from the man's wife, 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.160 and so to share it he has to kiss the man. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.960 But of course, the final element here is that it's 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.720 ultimately a story about a kindness being repaid. It's a 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.400 story about gratitude from a ghost that somebody does a 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.400 kindness that he could not possibly expect to be repaid, 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.880 and yet in some strange and supernatural fashion, he ends 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.600 up surprised because his kindness is repaid against everything you 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.280 would expect. And in this we get into the topic 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:42.880 of gratitude of of thankfulness, which of course seems an 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.000 obvious thing to tackle on Thanksgiving. Uh, And that's one 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.120 of the reasons we chose it. But also it is 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.840 it is an important topic. It is an important part 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.880 of the human experience and human culture, and so there's 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.400 actually a lot here to unpack. Absolutely. I mean, I 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.680 would say this is not the only folk tale motif 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:05.960 to heavily involved gratitude. Gratitude shows up all throughout full stories. Uh. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:11.040 Like the ungrateful receiver is a big archetype, somebody who 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.680 is ungrateful for what has been done for them, and they, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.320 you know, are punished or learn a lesson. And the 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.280 other side is, yes, somehow seeing gratefulness turning out for 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.320 the best, You do somebody a favor and then you 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:27.320 are repaid and their gratitude, Uh, is it unveils like 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.479 secret benefits that you couldn't have expected. Yes, Sometimes the 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.039 stranger that you are favorable to turns out to be 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.240 a divine being of some sort. Uh. There are also 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.279 tons of tales in which if if one is punished 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:44.400 or rewarded for either uh you know, not respecting elders 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.240 or respecting elders, being rewarded for the respect. So yeah, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.640 this is the gratitude is an important part of of 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.240 global myth making and then just continuing early a part 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:59.760 of our storytelling. So let's come back to American Thanksgiving though, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.920 because um, all of this isn't necessarily obvious as we 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.920 go through, uh just our day to day experience of 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.800 Thanksgiving here in America, because it can often feel like 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.920 a very complicated holiday. For instance, let me just roll 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.680 through a few of the several reasons to hate on Thanksgiving, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.800 and I'm I am guilty of some of these, if 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.760 not all. You've clearly got to love hate relationship because 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.440 you you keep wanting to talk about Thanksgiving even though 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.520 you hate it. Yeah, well, I mean I have I 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.080 feel like if I am resistant to something like Thanksgiving, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.960 then I should probably explore how I feel about it more, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.960 you know, and also perhaps feel explore the things that 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.760 I feel good about. So, on one hand, thanksgiving us 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.279 what you get when Halloween is over? Bummer, Yeah, it's 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.640 it's all that transition away from ghosts and ghouls and 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.120 Dracula's and Frankenstein's and uh, you know, and the other 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.919 properly named literary figures that we refer to in the 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.800 general sense, and then suddenly it's just pilgrims and turkeys 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.680 and whatnot. Not everybody to your monster freaks like us. 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.960 Though true, true, some may see it as a relief. Now. 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.240 Another thing is that, as is often pointed out in comedy, 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.920 it is a you know, it's a post election obligation 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.560 to hang out with family members who you may very 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.360 well not see eye to eye on when it comes 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.320 to politics. Can make things a little awkward, uh you know, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.279 and if you're lucky, it can make things awkward. Of course, 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.880 can be worse than that. Also, it is a feast, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.520 and while feasts are a major part of seasonal celebrations 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.760 around the world, it can feel a bit excessive in 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.560 the modern age. It can bring up mixed feelings about, say, 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.799 the amount of food that you are consuming and perhaps 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.240 the amount of food waste you might be producing. Also, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.200 if you've lost loved ones of individuals are missing from 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.480 the proceedings for various reasons, you know, living or dead, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.200 or if you yourself cannot be part of such celebrations 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.080 with family for a variety of reasons. The holiday can 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.560 be bitter, sweet, or downright depressing. Uh And and in 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.719 this it's like other holidays. This is absolutly true. And 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:05.440 I think this this contributed to the widely circulated but 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.239 false fact that suicide skyrocket around uh, Thanksgiving and Christmas. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.160 We looked into that on an episode one time and 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.200 found that it was not in fact true, that they 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.120 were not highest around the winter months. I think they 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.920 were actually highest somewhere in the spring. Yeah, yeah, I 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.680 remember that. Another thing about Thanksgiving in America is that 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.320 the Pilgrim and Native American aspects of the holidays, trappings 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.400 and sometimes decorations which many of us grew up with, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.000 they can feel rather off putting. The more you realize 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.240 about the exploitation of First Nations people and or the 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.920 religious views of the Pilgrims one of those the more 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.320 you know, the more uh you know at least awkward 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.120 it can feel. And then, of course the Thanksgiving parade 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:47.840 is not quite as fun as it seemed when you 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.680 were seven, it never seemed fun. You never got into 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.000 that at all. No, I like big balloons, but the 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:59.440 parade aspect seemed it seemed over long and tedious. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.520 I guess so. But I was down for just watching 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.800 any television at that age. So okay, Now, I didn't 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.240 mean to rain on your your parade, literally no, no. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.680 Because now I don't watch it nowadays, I'm really not 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.640 even tempted to. But when I was a child, at 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.840 one point, it was big fun. On the positive side, though, 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.520 depending on your own personal experience in situation, perhaps you 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.040 can attest to finding some or all of the following 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.640 aspects of American Thanksgiving fulfilling. First of all, American football. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.560 It's not my thing, but I know a lot of 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.800 people love it, and Thanksgiving is a time to watch 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.320 it obsessively. Somebody's thing, now something it is my thing. 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.920 The Mystery Science Theater, three thousand Turkey Day Marathon. Hey 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.760 now we're cooking? Yeah, that that was and still is 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.280 one of my favorites. It doesn't feel like Thanksgiving unless 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.200 I'm watching some sort of a rift movie. Generally it's 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.199 Jack Frost. That's a really good one. That's the one 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:54.680 with the like the Russian fairy tale and I guess yeah, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.840 and they're they're actually some perhaps some examples of gratitude 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.520 playing into the the traditional folk tale alls that are 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.079 brought to cinematic life in that film. Oh yeah, early 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.319 on then the story isn't Jack or not Jack? The 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.439 boy in the story, he's he's quite ungrateful. I'm titled right, yeah, 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.720 And then he's taught a lesson by father mushroom. Let's 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:18.120 see other other things. Perhaps they're positive aspects of family gatherings. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.640 A family gathering is a family gathering, um, and it 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.080 can be quite joyful. There's nostalgia wound up in the 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.280 practice as well. Of course, also, perhaps you really do 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.880 enjoy the food. I mean, people are gonna vary on 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.439 Thanksgiving food, but get a little jab in there for 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.320 people who hate food. Well, no, I don't hate food, 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:42.160 but Thanksgiving dishes are usually not my absolute favorite dishes. Oh, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.000 I see the style of Thanksgiving food as traditionally prepared. Yet, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.000 but some people that might be your thing, and if so, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.559 you know, go for it. You know, I am firmly 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.000 of the opinion that people should not feel compelled to 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.600 eat certain foods because it is a certain holiday. If 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.520 it's the fourth of July and you're hanging out by 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.760 the water, but you don't want to eat burgers and 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.280 hot dogs and barbecue, don't eat burgers. How do you 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.920 eat whatever you want to eat on Thanksgiving? I am 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:11.120 I strongly believe people should have kim che centric feasts 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.760 and and really that's that gets to my next point 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.559 is that you may look forward to Thanksgiving because you've 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:21.000 created your own ritual. You have created something new, something fresh, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.640 that you share with family and or friends, that that 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.080 means something more to you than some of these more 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.559 you know, traditional tropes of the season. But I think 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.199 that the vast majority of us, wherever you fall in 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.000 on these various points, you can probably agree on one thing. Surely, 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:44.600 thankfulness itself. Gratitude itself is a useful exercise. Well, I mean, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:46.720 I think a lot of people might agree on that 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:51.240 in principle, but then not really agree on it in practice. Well. Yes, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.640 so it's one thing to think it one thing to 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.400 another to act on it. Uh, you know, the the 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.840 act or even thought of being thankful though for what 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.280 you have in life, no matter how small, no matter 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.320 how cruel fate may seem at times, there is I 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.439 think generally an idea that this is good, this is beneficial, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:13.120 and if somebody is arguing something contrary to that, they're 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.080 probably doing it to get a rise out of you. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.720 With you know, some exceptions, I'm sure. So we're actually 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.199 going to be talking about gratitude and thankfulness today, right. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.160 I was thinking about how okay this subject might at 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.840 first glance, seemed kind of quaint compared to like the 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.800 grotesque evolutionary realities and strange frontiers of understanding that we 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.400 often like to explore on the show. But I think 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.280 this kind of research, by which I mean investigation of 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:45.600 like fundamental positive emotional states, is extremely important. It's actually 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.320 highly relevant as a scientific frontier because whatever you may 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.520 think you know, or whatever you think is obvious about 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.599 how to live a good life, just look at the 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.520 ways we actually live and in practice humans are clearly 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.080 not in agreement about how to live a good life, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.840 and like, what are the correct emotional states to seek 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.760 and how to seek them? In practice, we don't always 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.040 have reliable ways of orienting our mental and emotional lives 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.320 to the maximum benefit of ourselves and others. So I 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.120 think this kind of thing, the study of positive emotions 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:21.200 and positive social interactions, is actually a crucial socially relevant 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.800 psychological frontier and a workshop for the tools for a 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.800 better life. Absolutely, I would agree. And another thing I 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.040 think is that it's important to look at the science 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.360 about on subjects like this, because I would say, this 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.440 kind of stuff is usually the domain of things like 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.640 religion and common sense, you know, positive interactions and positive emotions, 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:45.720 and that's all well and good to deal with it 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.640 and in a religious way or just kind of deal 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.000 with it at a you know, gut feeling way, but 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.960 it's worth bringing a critical scientific lens to figure out 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.120 what's actually going on with these emotions, what are their 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.200 biological roots, Uh, what are the best ways to trigger 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.679 and sustain, like, how do they fit into our lives, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.280 and how can we drive them to the benefit of humanity. Yeah, 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:06.840 and and hopefully all of this will be just a 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.040 good exercise for everyone in general, because I know from 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.960 from personal experience it's entirely possible to go through an 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:17.360 entire Thanksgiving holiday without actually engaging in the experience of 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.720 gratitude and thoughts or acts of gratitude. So maybe this 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.760 will force all of us to to rethink what gratitude 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.040 is and why we seemingly have a holiday that's all 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.480 about reminding us to be thankful, even if we don't 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.160 always actually act on that. So first of all, let's 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.400 just start with under the origins of gratitude, getting down 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.240 to the you know, the brass tacks of the matter. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.640 We'll start with the old old Webster's definition gratitude is 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.360 a state of being grateful. That's not very helpful, all right, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.880 We'll go deeper, and to be grateful is to be 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:54.800 appreciative of benefits received, expressing gratitude affording pleasure or contentment 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.960 or pleasing by reason of comfort supplied or discomfort alleviate 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.480 did so, it is being aware of your blessings, being 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.880 aware of benefits received, and more than just acknowledging that 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.439 they exist, being appreciative of them. So there's like a 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.120 positive emotion that coincides with acknowledging what has gone well 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.840 right now and considering all of this, and certainly more 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.600 so if you were already bringing in religious connotations, we 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.840 touched on the fact that sometimes gratitude is shall we say, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.960 more cosmic. For instance, I can truly say that I'm 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.080 thankful to have been born in a time of such 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:38.440 scientific advancements, uh, you know, such relative global peace and 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.200 personal freedom. And I often come back to the old 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.640 phil Oaks folk song there but for Fortune that talks 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.840 about all these terrible things and saying, well they're but 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.520 for fortune, go you or I. Yeah. And And as 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.720 much as there, of course still is always lots of 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.040 things wrong in the world, you can appreciate the things 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.400 that have gone right. I mean, like whatever else bad 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.760 is going on, you can say, wow, I was able 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.920 to receive vaccines, you know, exactly. But a lot of 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.280 these are sort of by luck of the universe. I 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.560 exist at all, am conscious of my existence so at all, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.280 or you know, despite a fair amount of nitpicking and 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.200 even some you know, major issues with the state of 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.000 world or even reality itself, we can say, well, I 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.120 am fortunate. So that's that's very you know, cosmic gratitude. 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.080 But then there's the idea of being grateful to someone 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.080 or to something, and and this is important as well, 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.800 and it can take many forms. Perhaps you are grateful 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.160 to your partner for all they do and for their love. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.520 Perhaps you are grateful to your parents for their love 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.720 and support. Perhaps you're grateful to a friend or even 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.800 a stranger who did you a favor. Perhaps you're grateful 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.200 to an authority figure in your life, a boss, a 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.880 public figure who help you in some way, an artist 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.200 who created something that gave you joy, or a king 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.000 um you know. And indeed, perhaps you're you're grateful to 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.760 a deity for their perceived role in any of these 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.480 everyday blessings or the larger cosmic blessings we mentioned already. Yeah, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.320 this is an interesting distinction. Uh, maybe looking at social 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.920 gratitude versus what you're calling like cosmic gratitude, because I 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.520 believe the biological function of gratitude as an emotion in 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.680 the primate brain is probably primarily social. Right, it's a 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:24.680 motivating emotion that encourages bonding and reciprocal cooperation between animals. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.760 But in humans, it's clear that that it can escape 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.760 the bonds of its original social context and exist without 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.800 an object. Right, you can be grateful but not to 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.400 any person in particular, like you're talking about with this 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:42.000 cosmic gratefulness, or exist in relationship to things. Maybe there 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.080 is an object you're grateful to, but it's not another 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.560 animal or another person. It can just be a situation. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.360 I find that really interesting. Uh, And I think there 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:54.120 are plenty of parallels with other emotions that have escaped 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.920 their original social significance in an animal context. You might 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.160 think of resentment in the negative side. Resentment, I think 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.080 also is primarily a social emotion as biological functions in 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.359 you know, regulating social groups and group dynamics. But it's 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.640 also possible for people to feel resentment towards no one 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.920 in particular, just sort of rather toward life for toward 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.679 general situations. Right Like, So, for instance, if if I 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.399 have back pain, I can resent my job and or 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.200 indoor my boss, because you know, if that job somehow 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.800 played into me injuring my back. If I believe in 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.080 a deity, I can resent my deity or you know, whatever, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.879 the or the devil or whoever, for their role in 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.480 making my back hurt or allowing it to hurt in 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.600 the first place. Or I can for instance, be resentful 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.760 at natural selection in the state of human biology that 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.679 that frequently enables back pain to exist at all. You 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.560 can just have resentfulness without an object like and nobody 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.680 to be mad at here. But I'm so resentful. Yeah, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.040 And I think the same is clearly true of gratitude. 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.679 I entirely agree with this idea of this cosmic feeling 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.920 of gratitude. And it's funny how that kind of thing 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.600 complicates our picture of of gratitude far beyond even the 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.080 kind you see like in the in the folk tales, 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.879 where most often gratitude manifests as like, Uh, you know, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.240 a sort of a debt ode to someone. Someone has 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.359 done something nice for you, and you're going to find 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.280 a way to pay them back. Yeah, that's right, because 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.960 if there is an other involved in your gratitude, be 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.440 it an actual human person or a perceived deity, then 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.240 there may be well, this feeling of indebtedness. There is 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.000 a bond, there is something that needs to be repaid 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.960 in one form or another. And then there's clearly overlap 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.680 here between indebtedness and gratitude. Uh. And it really depends 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.960 on who you talk to who's doing the arguing. Some 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.919 say that they are essentially equivalent. Others, however, argue that 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.000 we're talking about two distinct emotional states. I was looking 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.720 at some various sources on this in the Debt of Gratitude, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.679 disassociating gratitude and indebtedness by Watkins at All, published in 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.760 Cognition and Emotion in two thousand and six. The researchers 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.080 carried out a pair of exers. Ez Is insurmised that quote, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.159 the debt of gratitude is internally generated and is not 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.960 analogous to an economic form of indebtedness. Okay, so they 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.440 come down on the side of it, these two things 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.000 being not equivalent. Another study I was looking at for 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.480 this one from Matthews and green Um looking at Me 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.919 Appreciating You. Self focused attention distinguishes between gratitude and indebtedness. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.760 This was also an Incognition and Emotion but from two 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.359 thousand eight. In this the research has found that quote, 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:33.640 highly self focused individuals recalled increased indebtedness, but not gratitude 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.160 towards a benefactor relative to those in the control condition. 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.480 Self focused individuals also felt less commitment and closeness to 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.919 the benefactor. So if I'm understanding this correctly, Um and indeed, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.840 these are all just arguments on the backup two experiments. 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:53.080 They're not gospel. Uh. Concerning gratitude, indebtedness comes down comes 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.640 into play more when we're considering ourselves as players within 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.000 a social system. Well, yeah, I mean, I can imagine, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.560 for example, it seems perfectly plausible that you could have 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.879 person a Bob who is really into paying back what 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.159 he owes people. He borrows five dollars, He's going to 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.960 pay you back five dollars, right exactly. He always pays 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.800 his debts. But he might not be a person in 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:20.880 which you recognize much of this emotion that we call gratitude. Meanwhile, 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.280 you could have person b You could have Jeff over here, 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.399 who maybe is kind of flaky about paying back debt's 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.000 ode and doesn't keep a very clean ledger. That way 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.800 doesn't settle all these debts, but shows more of the 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.600 emotion we think of his gratitude. That that makes sense 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.000 to me, and I can very easily see those things 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.800 being disconnected from one another in social scenarios. Now here's 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.080 another paper. I was looking at a two thousand seven 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.080 paper in Motivation and Emotion from Joe N. Saying titled 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.800 the Effects of helper Intention on Gratitude and Indebtedness. And 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.080 this also experimented with the distinction and explore the effects 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.800 of helper intention on reactions to a favor. And basically 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.240 the subjects were asked to think about times they did 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.240 something nice, either within an ulterior motive or as an 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.320 act of just pure benevolence, and quote, participants felt significantly 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.119 more grateful when the helper had benevolent intentions. So a 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.280 lot of it would seem to come down to either 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.560 the express nature of the act and or the individual's 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.800 perception of it. So you could have people who feel 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.680 thankful because you know, the stranger gave me a cold 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.919 water bottle just out of kindness or uh, you know um. 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.840 Or they could say, oh, the bellman was so nice 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.560 to bring my luggage to my hotel room. Uh, and 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.840 they're grateful, not realizing they were supposed to tip that individual. Right. 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.400 It's all about you know, your perception. You know. Likewise, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.040 you could feel indebted because your friend helped you move 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.120 and you know that they are going to move next week, 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.040 or you know, you could be something like, oh, that 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.720 stranger gave me a bottle of water, probably because they're 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.359 going to try to sell me something. I'm gonna have 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:51.960 to stand here and listen to them, you know, or 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.240