1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Note they called 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: you to know. This is a strange one, guys. This 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: is one that's been sitting in our great collection of episodes. 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: We wanted to do one day, but weren't sure how 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: to how to address right. And so now years later 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: we are finally doing an episode on something called Operation 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Prato or Operation Saucer or Operation Plate or Operation Dish. 15 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: The translations are interesting. It turns out, you know, any 16 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: longtime listener will know this. Millions of people were recently 17 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: astonished to learn that the US government has been studying UFOs, 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: or Unidentified aerial phenomena as they call it, for much 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: longer than at once publicly claimed. And all these revelations 20 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: from this leaked footage, the statements of former and current 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: government officials. All the details of these investigative programs have 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: come to light partially, and it sounds like stuff that 23 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: you would associate with an episode of uh the latter 24 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: half of the X Files, when they got super deep 25 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: into conspiracies. But there's a problem with this narrative. Even 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: as all this information is being disclosed, and we are 27 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: going to use the D word pretty often here today, 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: the problem is this a lot of the UFO stories 29 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: that we see reported nowadays tend to be somewhat myopically 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: restricted to Canada and the United States. You know, the 31 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: Shag Harbor incident. We we covered that one earlier, the 32 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: Roswell crash a k a. The wild Weather balloon, and 33 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: so on. These are just stories that got caught in 34 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: the zeitgeist. They're the ones that became popular. But it 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: turns out that other world governments have been investigating UFOs 36 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: for decades, and millions of people around the world throughout 37 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: the span of civilization have also seen strange things in 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: the sky. So today we're going to look south from 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: where we are in Atlanta. It sounded good anyway, We're 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: gonna go to Brazil. Here are the facts. Sou not 41 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: a native Brazilian speaker. I think I can speak for 42 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: all of us and saying them do my very best. 43 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: I think it's Paria has got the accent mark over there. 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: Brazil is a northern state in the country on the 45 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: border of Guyana and Surinam UM. And a river runs 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: through it, like the Brad Pitt movie. In that river 47 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: is the Amazon Um. It's diverse, populous place that is 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: the second largest state in the entire country UM and 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: over eight point six million people called Paria home UM. 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: And there is a lot of abject poverty UM in Paria. 51 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: And so if you think of the Google map in 52 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: your head and you're zooming into this part of the world, 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: in the northeastern region of Party, there's a small, teeny 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: tiny little island that you might never have even noticed 55 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: UM if you hadn't you know, zoomed in on the 56 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: Google map in your head. And that little island is 57 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: called coloris Um. And it doesn't really tend to move 58 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: the needle much in terms of Western news in the 59 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: grand scheme of things, But on one shining day in 60 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, all of that changed. Throughout nineteen seventy 61 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: seven and the next year nineteen seventy eight, multiple people 62 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: not only said that they had seen some kind of 63 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: UFOs in the sky, but they also reported that they 64 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: had been attacked by these things, by these UFOs. And 65 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: this is this is something that has become known as 66 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: the Cholarius UFO flap. Yeah, let's this is this is unique, 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: or we should say distinct, in that there are multiple 68 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: people reporting not just seeing something or feeling something, but 69 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: the reporting being physically attacked. And what what's fascinating about 70 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: that is an attack means that there is some sort 71 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: of physical evidence of something not necessarily a UFO. Right. 72 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: It could be that these people are somehow hucksters, right, 73 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: and they're purposely like making wounds to have a crazy 74 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: story in the headlines. Well, but also it may remind 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: you of the Battle of Los Angeles that we've covered 76 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: on this show, where allegedly, well actually it was the 77 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: humans attacking the UFOs in that instance. Well, yeah, that 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: definitely happened, right, they were shooting shooting at this guy. 79 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: It's that's I think that would still happen in Atlanta. 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: If a UFO hovered in the air today, we would 81 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: just people would shoot at it. But these these folks 82 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: in colors and in other like more than thirty villages 83 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: throughout the area. They all consistently reported the same kinds 84 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: of injuries and the same experience of receiving those They 85 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: would say they were outside or maybe they were in 86 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: their house. Keep in mind, a lot of these houses 87 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: aren't built of stone or anything. We're talking about things 88 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: that may be built out of bamboo or other native materials. 89 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: And then they would feel an intense beam of light 90 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: and they would see this light even if they were 91 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: in their house. And then these beams of energy or 92 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: radiation or whatever you want to call it, would leave 93 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: bird marks on their bodies. And somehow this is this 94 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: is a key to where the episode gets really weird. Somehow. Uh. 95 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: This stuff would also allegedly leave puncture wounds. In fact, 96 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: multiple people who reported this stuff said that these UFOs 97 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: were and this is a quote sucking their blood unexpected 98 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: from UFO at least, uh uncharacteristic from a lot of 99 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: other reports. It's a cool twist though, on the traditional 100 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: UFO experience. And I like the idea of of of 101 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't like the idea, but you know, 102 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: when you think of a UFO abduction. It's more like 103 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: a kind of a covert kidnapping. This feels much more 104 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: like outright warfare, you know, and uh can how do 105 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: you suck blood remotely? That's interesting, It's it's a question 106 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: that's haunted me for a long time. You know. Think 107 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: about a tractor beam that you've seen in sci fi 108 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: films and stuff, right, but instead of just pulling an 109 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: entire physical object, it's somehow siphoning blood out of an object. 110 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: I like that, Matt, and I have to say, blood 111 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: tractor is definitely gonna be the name of my next musical, 112 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: produc Jacked sounds like it could be a slasher film 113 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: about a farmer. Also also just that, you know, like 114 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: to finish the thought, I just want to talk to 115 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: everybody who's in the audience, Like, I know, it's a 116 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: common question we all ask ourselves at some point, you know, 117 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: how do I remotely suck blood? So this this might 118 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: be uh interesting to a lot of us in the 119 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: audience because we you know, it may be helpful to 120 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: your research. No further cons right, none required. And all 121 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: of this, all of these reports that were sort of 122 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: swirling around with very specific details lead to a real 123 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: kind of panic in the streets and a lot of 124 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: confusion among the local population. Um. And at the time 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: it was a big deal, and it's sort of you know, 126 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: fell by the wayside of history, uh, and became much 127 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: more of sort of a niche um curiosity that you know, 128 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: folks like us would would be interested in our little 129 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: clicks of UFO investigators, I guess. And the pattern was 130 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: common to any observer of other UFO incidents. Right, yeah, 131 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: that's that's correct. You would see local news stories running 132 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: right sometimes in a headline grabby way baby could call 133 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: the slow newsday piece, the kind of stuff that we 134 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: would call Florida man reporting here in the US. And 135 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with that, if you are somehow 136 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: not familiar with that, please check it out story for 137 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: a different day. Witnesses were often dismissed as unreliable on 138 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: their own because you know, a lot of these people 139 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: will be from lower side of the socioeconomic spectrum. More 140 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: skeptical locals when they learned of the story, would treat 141 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: it more like a Florida man's story in the news 142 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: rather than a report of something dangerous. But this became 143 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: an urban legend simply because so many people claimed to 144 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: have been affected, hundreds and hundreds of people, and eventually, 145 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: after a little bit of international attention, the story gets 146 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: relatively buried. It's not being reported in the news. Other 147 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: things are happening. The only folks who really care are 148 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: these niche upologists, or maybe the people who believe they 149 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: were affected by the incident. But it turns out, and 150 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: we only learned this decades later, there was someone paying 151 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: very very close attention to all of these results. It 152 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: was the government of Brazil. What are we talking about. 153 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's 154 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. So it turns out that the 155 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: Brazilian government and some members of the media, unlike many 156 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: skeptical citizens, took these reports seriously. In fact, the Brazilian 157 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: Air Force launched a secret investigation to evaluate not even 158 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: not even all of the reports, just hundreds of the 159 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: ones that they considered more credible or more compelling. And 160 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: this happened because the mayors of several villages complained, like, 161 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: my town is coming under attack by UFOs, So logically, 162 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: who do we call the ghostbusters? Weren't a thing back then, 163 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: so they went with the Brazilian Air Force. We don't 164 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: know whether the air force would have investigated the sightings 165 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: if the mayors had not pleaded for this help. Uh. 166 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: And we still don't know exactly how all of this 167 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: went down, because not only are parts of it still classified, 168 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: but many of the key players who could have told 169 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: us about this firsthand have since passed away since this 170 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: was back in the late seventies. So the intelligence agencies 171 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: leave an air force base in Belem, and they interview 172 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 1: witnesses from Claudes and around uh thirty other villages and 173 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: what becomes known as Operas al Prato or Operation Saucer. Yeah. 174 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: I I have a feeling who was really sent where 175 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: the men in black with a small air force atche 176 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: or you know, a group connected to them. Pretty sure 177 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: it was the Minute Black. We must learn how to 178 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: suck blood remotely, well, yeah, or at least figure out 179 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: which species is doing it right right? Uh. The thing 180 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: about this again, as Noll said, we're not native Portuguese speakers. 181 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: The direct translation of this, you'll see it called Operations Saucer, 182 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: but it may be something more like Operation Dish or 183 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: Operation Plate, both of which sounds the way way less 184 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: like Newsworthy. Operation Dish sounds like a e Hollywood type 185 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: TV show and guy apologies, I think I said native 186 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: Brazilian earlier, what mia call on my part, that's not 187 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: a thing. It is in fact Portuguese. But yeah, yeah, 188 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: So you can find some extensive reporting on this from 189 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: move On and from other ufologists organizations. One person who's 190 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: been instrumental in this is a guy named A. J. Gavert. 191 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: He is the editor of Brazilian UFO magazine and his 192 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: take on it, you know, admittedly has some bias to it, 193 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: but his take on it is pretty interesting because, as 194 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: we'll see, he's instrumental in what we know about operations 195 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: Saucer today. According to him, the weird thing about this 196 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: investigation got so weird so quickly was very men in black, 197 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: as he said, Matt, very Molder and Scully because the 198 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: agents themselves started seeing UFOs at multiple points in their investigation. 199 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: Fact that we're able to start addicting when some of 200 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: these things would appear if you believe the agents. Yeah, 201 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: and it isn't as though they just stood by and 202 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: watched it happen or something and then had a story 203 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: to tell. They were actively taking photographs, they were collecting photographs, 204 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: they were taking film of stuff that is out there, 205 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: what they were seeing. It was supposedly hundreds like a lot, right, 206 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: hundreds of hours. I mean, I don't know how many 207 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: hours it was, but it was a lot like if 208 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: you if you imagine just what it took in the 209 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, seven seventy eight to produce those kinds of images. 210 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: You're talking about physical film that you're shooting and rolling on. 211 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: And they were doing that, and they thought it was 212 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: worth it, and that was expensive too. And one of 213 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: the coolest things to me, and something we've talked about 214 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: on this show before, is that, uh, these films were 215 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: allegedly showing these UFOs not going out into space somewhere 216 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: after you know, swinging down by Earth for a bit. 217 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:02,599 Speaker 1: They were going into the water. How cool is that? Twists? 218 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you know, it's exactly so many interesting 219 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: twists on the traditional UFO mythos in the story. I 220 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: love it. We have so we have a couple of 221 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: things that are already different from the typical UFO story 222 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: or investigation story you will hear in the folklore right 223 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: or the literature. I guess we could call it as well, 224 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: the irritating thing for this team is that they were 225 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: a skeleton crew. They weren't complaining about seeing UFOs uh. 226 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: They were complaining that they only had some cameras, some 227 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: taper quarters, uh, maybe some radiation detection equipment. They didn't 228 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: have all the the gear that they really needed, and 229 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: they didn't have the manpower. This was this core team 230 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: was pretty small. There was one guy who was who 231 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,119 Speaker 1: was in charge of it. His name was Captain Hollanda, 232 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: and there were six sergeants and there were a couple 233 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: of other folks helping out. This official investigation only lasted 234 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: about four months. Again, this official investigation only lasted about 235 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: four months before it was shut down. And so for 236 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: people who believe that the Brazilian government or the Air 237 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: Force was just kind of doing a reassuring move for 238 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: very concerned mayors, then it sounds like, of course, it 239 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: should only last four months. It's kind of like your 240 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: parents going to check under the bed if you're a 241 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: kid and you're scared of monsters. However, something else happens. 242 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean, first, let's talk about what they what they did, 243 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: what the group working Operation Saucer or Operation Dish soon 244 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: to be available on Bravo. UH, let's talk about what 245 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: they did at the end of their investigation. So Captain 246 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: Hollanda and his second in command of Sergeant UH, Flavio 247 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: Costa UH compiled this report that consisted of around five 248 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: pages of documents, plus a couple hundred photos and films 249 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,359 Speaker 1: shot of the UFOs purportedly, and numerous maps and sketches, 250 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: and many of the sketches show the trajectory of of 251 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: these UFOs passing over an area, UH particularly area on 252 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: the same night. And a particularly interesting aspect of the 253 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: reports are that a few of the objects seen in 254 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: the materials UM did have a predictable kind of schedule 255 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: that appeared in certain areas after seven pm UM at 256 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: dusk for several days. The residents of chloris Um actually 257 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: organized these defensive kind of processions I guess where they 258 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: would light fires in the streets and launch UM projectiles 259 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: like you know, fireworks, UM, anything they can get their 260 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: hands on to try and scare away what they referred 261 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: to in the report as the bug. Yeah, the bug. 262 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: You know, it's a translation obviously, but it's interesting to 263 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: think about it that way. It's very biological calling something 264 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: a bug or an insect or something like that even 265 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: when translated. But you know, which kind of makes you wonder, 266 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: what exactly are we talking about? What kind of shape, 267 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: what kind of what does it look like? What are 268 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: the lights like? Is it biological? Is it more metallic 269 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: like a saucer? I mean they named it operation disc 270 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: disc or dish saucer or whatever. Um, So let's talk 271 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: about that, because it wasn't always the same thing that 272 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: was cited, right, Yeah, that's another interesting twist for you 273 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: ethologist in the crowd, because typically in a previous incidents 274 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: with multiple observers, what what we usually see is going 275 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: to be a single appearance like Shag Harper for example, 276 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: or a single series of appearances in a very limited 277 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: span of time, such as the Battle of Los Angeles. Typically, 278 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: in those cases, we'll see what witnesses describing roughly the 279 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: same thing. They might object to, or they might differ 280 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: on their ideas of how large the object actually was. 281 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: They might describe rounded windows or something like that, and 282 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: then someone says there are nine, and someone says there 283 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: were eleven. Right, All the typical things that you see 284 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: eyewitnesses do when they try to remember something that hasn't 285 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: been written down or photographed or recorded, but this is 286 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: not the case in operation Uh. In Operations Saucer, we 287 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: see multiple reports of very different objects, are very different 288 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: descriptions of alleged objects. To be completely fair, uh, the 289 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: one was described as a luminous body about one and 290 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: a half meters long, red yellow in color, moving at 291 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: a very low height, just five to ten meters, and 292 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: it was circular in shape. But it also had a 293 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: there's a quote here, multicolored tail and made no noise, 294 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: and it emitted a soft bluish light, which to me 295 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: sounds comforting and somehow reminiscent of undersea creatures. Yeah, but 296 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: it's a it's so that description. Gosh, it's so interesting, 297 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: red yellow color with this blue emanating light, with a 298 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: tail that is multicolor. Yeah, I don't know. I mean 299 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: it does sound like a bird, right, um, it's some 300 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: kind of tropical bird that you'd find in a rainforest. 301 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: But then also mix that with the idea that that 302 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: perhaps this thing is entering the water and then emerging 303 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: from the water. I don't know, because it makes you 304 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: think about bioluminescence and some of the possibilities that could exist. 305 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: Just I love I love this, but that's not the 306 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: only weird thing, right, No, it's not. Um. There was 307 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: also something that was described as an inverted plate with 308 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: a sharp red apex at the bottom, and it also 309 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: says that it accelerated to a great speed and produced 310 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: a hissing noise at the time. So that sounds like 311 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: a saucer. And that's a way less chill sighting too, right, 312 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: it's making your noise, it's uh, it's accelerating aggressively. It's 313 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: stopped putting out that soft blue light, sharp red apex. 314 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: So is that like a like a design feature like 315 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: we're talking about like literally like a like a kind 316 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: of a pointy sort of like a like a spoiler 317 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: or something like what exactly is a yeah, like a 318 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: steeple almost you know, but wait, we're talking about a 319 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: steeple that's inverted, right, because it's a plate that would 320 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: essentially go be rounded at the top very sim or 321 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: two other reports of flying saucers with this point, you know, 322 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: slightly pointy thing at the bottom almost like a top. 323 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: You know that that's a good. That's a really good 324 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: with upside down pyramid and lazy uh stalactite. And I 325 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: think I've mentioned this before, you guys, I was like 326 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: driving when when I was in the span that was 327 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: on tour and going through Nebraska, and I saw a 328 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: thing that that that was It was an inverted pyramid. 329 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 1: It was like a diamond kind of shape thing in 330 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: the distance. And at the time, I had like an 331 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: old DV cam quarter. I mean, I still have it, 332 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: and I have a lot of my tapes I want 333 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: to go through and dig around. But um, it was 334 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: just odd because it was just hovering in such a 335 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: way that I couldn't explain what it was. And I'm 336 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: not someone to get hung up on these kind of things, 337 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: but I'll never forget that. And it really did have 338 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: this kind of diamond type a kite situation, but obviously 339 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: way too far away to really be a kite, and 340 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: like static on the horizon. Really interesting. Um, And all 341 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: of this stuff was reported to Air Force headquarters in 342 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: Brazilia and then you know, surprise, surprise, the report was 343 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: buried and thus the official investigation ended. They got a 344 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: pretty comprehensive report. Uh, what was great work for such 345 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: a small team of people. And you know, it was 346 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: a case of like pats on the back and uh, 347 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: thanks so much, good hustle. Everybody take the weekend off 348 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: right and look into this thing. UH, and then they 349 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: woke up later at an Applebee's. But the problem then 350 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: the story becomes reminiscence of true detective of the the 351 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: trope of the haunted investigator, because what these investigators found, 352 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: whatever it was that they saw or thought they saw, UH, 353 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: stuck with them. And they continued working on these cases 354 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: throughout the majority of the following year, do entirely to 355 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: their own personal interest in the case. And for decades, 356 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: the findings of this team remain classified. The remains secret 357 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: despite the fact that you know, every Brazilian who pays 358 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: taxes is paying for these kinds of investigations. And this 359 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: is where we see the legend really start to grow. 360 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: And and again, keep in mind, this is happening around 361 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: the time that the Internet is coming into existence. So 362 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: over the intervening years and decades, photo copies of Operation Prato, 363 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: like little snippets, photographs, documents, random pages of things started 364 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: leaking to first civilian UH, civilian ufologists who are already 365 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: in that community or on those forums or mailing list, 366 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: and then secondly to the media up and eventually UH 367 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: some of the folks studied UFOs from Brazil. We're able 368 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 1: to compile all of this stuff and they found and 369 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: these are legit leaks. They're not somebody with a telex 370 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: machine in a free afternoon. Uh. These these are total 371 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: to be summaries more than three hundred sightings or encounters 372 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: in that in that island of Coloris and other villages. 373 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: And the weird thing is at least half of the 374 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: reports of the leaked reports at least are about sightings 375 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: that Captain Hylanda and his team had themselves. So this 376 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: urban legend continues growing. The Brazilian government, for its part, 377 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: remains silent. What happens next? How did we find out 378 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: about all this stuff? Will tell you after a word 379 00:24:51,520 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're so let's get into a 380 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: bit of the timeline here about some of the major 381 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: uh I guess revelations and leaks that have occurred throughout 382 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: this case and over the years. Well in seven, Captain Holanda, 383 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: who we talked about, was their experienced stuff with the 384 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: whole team took all of these, uh you know, piece 385 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: of evidence, wrote this big report. Well, he's been retired 386 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: for quite a while and he decides he doesn't have 387 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: to be silent anymore. He can come out and talk 388 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: about this thing, talk about Harry Reid. It's like Harry Reid. 389 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: It is like Harry Reid. Wow, I didn't realize Harry 390 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: Reid was fully retired, at least from politics. Harry Reid 391 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: was fully alive. So you got one up on me. Well, 392 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: it makes sense, It makes total sense. Right, you're you're 393 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: done with your service, whatever it is that you're doing. 394 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: You feel a little bit of a sense of safety. 395 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: So he came out, he began talking, and he partook 396 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: in multiple interviews where he discussed that many people had 397 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: actually been hurt. It wasn't just these sightings, it wasn't 398 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: just the reports about what people had seen. Uh, people 399 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: did get hurt, and he was confirming this and that 400 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: that always, I think felt like one of the most 401 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: out there parts of this story is that these objects, 402 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: whatever they were, if they were real, because you first 403 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: have to believe that they're real, they were actually there 404 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: and people saw them. The hard thing to believe is 405 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: that they somehow affected the humans on the ground and 406 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: hurt to them. And he came out and said, yeah, 407 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: that's one of the strangest parts again because exactly to 408 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: your point, Matt. It goes to the question of hard 409 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: evidence of proof, right, where is the thing? Is this 410 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: just a a memory that you have had, or is 411 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: this just a a moral panic you know and an 412 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: outbreak of uh fear expressed through these claims sightings. We 413 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: know that humans do that all the time. So for 414 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: him to come out and say that and have firsthand 415 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: knowledge of the evidence, you have to ask yourself did 416 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: he have a financial motive or something like that first? 417 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: And it appears that he didn't. It appears that he 418 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: just got to the he just got to that point 419 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: in age. Where are you saying, I don't care? What 420 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: are you gonna what are you gonna do? Lock me 421 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: up for life? What's that's gonna be like four years 422 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: for me? Tops? And uh And so we see other 423 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: other people familiar with this series of incidents who also 424 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: come forward. There's a doctor named ol Aid Carvallo who 425 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: was working in Corollas at the time, and she said, yes, 426 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: I can confirm I treated about forty different people for 427 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: burns during this time. Two of them died. I told 428 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: the Air Force team about it, but I didn't really 429 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: take it past them because I was afraid I would 430 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: be ridiculed. You know what I mean. I'm a doctor. 431 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: I can't like go on, I can't go into the 432 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: paperwork and say, you know, this is UFO burn number 433 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: thirty two. You know it's it's totally damage his credibility. Yeah, no, 434 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: you're You're absolutely right. And you feel like once you've 435 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: I can only imagine you feel like, once you've reported 436 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: it to an authority like the Air Force, then they 437 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: will look into it further and they will do something 438 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: about it. That's at least the thinking UH. And they did. 439 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: They looked into it, at least Hellanda did and his team. Yeah, 440 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: we just don't. We still don't really know, wow deeply 441 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: they looked into it or who else was involved. What 442 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: we do know today is largely due to, I'll say it, 443 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: the efforts of these ufologists in Brazil, who are not 444 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: a huge, huge community. After like a year long lobbying 445 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: campaign with UH and the creation of a petition that 446 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: got a on thirty six thousand signatures, the government in 447 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: Brazil cracked a deal with a handful of uthologists and 448 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: on May two thousand and five, these athologists sat down 449 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: with government officials, which is a lot like um I 450 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: guess one way to look at it, it's a lot 451 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: like George Suklouse or something getting a meeting with the 452 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: Joint chiefs of Staff. Yeah. Yeah, But what it really 453 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: feels like to me is the work that Stephen Greer 454 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: has done in the past where he has met with 455 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 1: intelligence officials on these subjects and they they I mean, 456 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: at least according to him that he told to us directly, 457 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: as well as him purporting to do in his documentaries. 458 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: He meets with them regularly. That's a good point. And 459 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: then also, you know, it's legislatively speaking, it's kind of difficult, 460 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: isn't it to tell you you can tell somebody working 461 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: in a government position what they can't talk about, right, 462 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: They'll talk about your day job. You're a vacation in Panama, remember, 463 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: But you they it's difficult to control who someone can 464 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: talk to, you know what I mean, especially if you 465 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: don't really you might not know who they are or 466 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: something like that. It's all changes when you're in the world, 467 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: like counterintelligence and terrorism. But if you're just telling some 468 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: bureaucrat like hey, you can't, uh, you can't talk to 469 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: strangers who say hello to you, that's crazy and illegal. 470 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: So Anyway, I do quite enjoy your Steve Greer example there. 471 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: I think it's apt because also just because somebody's meeting 472 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: with a government official does not necessarily mean they're meeting 473 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: about what they want to meet about. It doesn't you know, 474 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: what is a meeting? I think we talked about that too. 475 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: Write like the Tom DeLong Academy of the Stars story 476 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: has incident where he meets someone at a hotel. Right, 477 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: did you were you just in the same lobby or 478 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: something like that. That's the question skeptics will have. But 479 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: this is much bigger. Yeah, this seems legit because in 480 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: the crowd there were three top generals or in the 481 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: meeting was a small meeting, and they said, yes, look 482 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: u ethology, guys, we're not sane. Everything you might believe 483 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: is true, but yes, you are right. We at the 484 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: Brazilian Air Force have been really, really concerned about UFOs. 485 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: It freaks us out. We do systematically track them. We 486 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: call him H traffic. And then this is where I 487 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: picked her. One of the generals like going, Bob wrote 488 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: that one Bob done. Thanks thanks guys. So H traffic 489 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: they've been tracking it since nineteen fifty four, they say 490 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: in a systematic way, no one offs and then they 491 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 1: say some other things too. And the Air Force leaders 492 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: had this to say. They said they recognized the importance 493 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: of ufology, that they pledged to help get classified files 494 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: open to the public, and they guaranteed that steps would 495 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,239 Speaker 1: be taken to form a joint committee of military and 496 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: civilian UFO researchers to study the phenomenon. That's pretty cool. 497 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: That's what's the word transparent in a way we're not 498 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: used to seeing in this country for sure. Well, and 499 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: what an idea work closely with the highly interested civilian 500 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: counterparts that you know, want to help, like with a 501 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: move on or you know, with it, with any other 502 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: organization that is doing their level best to find out 503 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: as much as they can. I mean, yes, cooperate, let's 504 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: do this, Yeah, I mean think about think think about 505 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: all the various politicians who say the public sectors should 506 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: partner more with the private This is government and act 507 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: and right things things are great. Uh. It does remind 508 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: me a little bit of the It brings to mind 509 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: the example of civilian satellite tracking right, which has been 510 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: it's a huge subculture, I guess you could call it. 511 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: There are people who just entirely for fun. Trace satellites 512 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: in the sky, trace their paths, and they have been 513 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: a thorn in the side of multiple governments because they 514 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: keep finding secret satellites that no one talked about. It's 515 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: just tough to hide them because they're literally out in 516 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: the open in orbit. So maybe this is a lesson 517 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: that if the Brazilian government was sincere here, maybe this 518 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: is a lesson that Uncle Sam could learn about crowdsourcing, 519 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: partnering with people who are already, as you said, Matt, 520 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: highly motivated. Uh. But that's where the story starts to 521 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: break down. So before we go on, I don't want 522 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: to stay in defense of the Brazilian government. They do 523 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: have a wildly different approach to investigation of this phenomenon 524 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: that could, whether you're a skeptic or true believer, best 525 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: be described as controversial right on multiple levels. Should we 526 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: be spending money investigating this, should we care about it? 527 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: Should we tell people when we investigate this stuff? The 528 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: Brazilian government has been at various times surprisingly open about 529 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: aspects of their h traffic investigations. Uh. Today you will 530 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: be able to see some hundred sheets of of material 531 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: and as there's an estimated twenty five kilos of material. 532 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: This includes descriptions, sketches, photos of phenomenon and that by 533 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: the way, it's not like bags information right, yes, sorry, 534 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: it's so much that it weighs. It's not not in bags. 535 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: They're not moving keys, uh, because they stay in one place. 536 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: But this, this stuff, this treasure trove of information, doesn't 537 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: just relate to Operations Saucer. It's three batches of Brazilian 538 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: Air Force intel gathering investigations of this aerial phenomenon. The 539 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: first two batches have reports dating back to the fifties 540 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: and the sixties. Turns out what the general said is true. Uh. 541 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: And then the third one that's what came out in 542 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: two thousand five, that covers Operation Prato. And these archives 543 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: are pretty comprehensive. I mean, they contain a lot of 544 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: the stuff that we we've seen in disclosures from the 545 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: UK or from the US newspaper clippings at the time, 546 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: conversations between subject matter experts. It's not just some it's 547 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: not just somebody walking out to their Uh. I don't 548 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: know what do people have in their backyards? They're grill there, 549 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: zen rock garden, Yeah, yeah, that's those are those are 550 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: good a bird bath. Yeah, yeah, there we goes. That's 551 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: what by walking out to fulfill their bird bath and 552 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: then just seeing some random junk in the sky. These 553 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 1: are pilots. These are people who are like air traffic controllers. 554 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: They're supposed to know what most things in the sky 555 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: look like, and in repeated instances in these archives, they 556 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: simply do not. It feels similar to Blue Book, like 557 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: Project Blue Book or Grudge or one of those. But 558 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: you're right, it does seem to have all more more 559 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: resources perhaps or more input from various sources, just more 560 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: like stuff and the materials. It seems like that's uh accessible. Yeah, 561 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: accessible is the big key there. I like the idea 562 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: of combining these two one thing and call it Project 563 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: Blue Plate. No blue plates special, Yeah played special. Yeah, 564 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: the meat and two veg. Yeah, so I'm hungry. By 565 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 1: the way. You know, my kids really into these days 566 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: dino dinosaur shaped chicken nuggets. Something about the shape makes 567 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: them appealing to her. I don't know. I thought that 568 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: that was like, I thought you grew out of that, 569 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: but then I realized I like it too. Do they 570 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: make saucer shaped nuggets? I'd be downe with that one. Totally. Yeah, 571 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: I would. I was thinking the same thing. Why is 572 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: there not more conspiratorial branded food? I want? Like big 573 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: foot jerky, that's probably a thing I want, like, wait, 574 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: made of actual bigfoots. No, No, he's like the he's 575 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: like the mascot. It's like he has the mascot for 576 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: that one jerky company's okay, never mind, never mind. Chupa 577 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: copper juice boxes. Yes, yes, let's spit my coffee out. 578 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: That was great, man. Yet cheese Mason's, that's that's a 579 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: whole brand. Did lie? Um? Okay? But honestly, I don't 580 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: know if I ever told you guys, I did a 581 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: really disturbing research thing on just chicken nuggets and I 582 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: did never send it because I didn't want to. I've 583 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: done that too, and don't do it. Pink pink slime 584 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: and all the glorious thing just normalized cancers, uh in 585 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: the okay? Anyway? Yeah, So I think our big takeaway 586 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: there is we need some conspiratorial branded food products. Oh 587 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: my god, Okay, I'll get those Dino nuggets are fine. 588 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: Wheat those two. You can actually look at the ingredient list, 589 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: assuming it's the same one. Yeah, I mean you know, 590 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: it's all just kind of like, you know, pooped out 591 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: of one of those grinder things when it come when 592 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: you see it in that form, not so great. But 593 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: then you know, when it's smushed into dinosaurs shape, much 594 00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: more palatable. Yeah. I mean, anybody who doesn't care for 595 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: chicken nuggets or nuggets as they're called in various memes, uh, 596 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: be aware that you you don't have a high horse 597 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: to sit on because if you eat chicken in general, 598 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: there's some stuff they don't want you to know. But 599 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: uh but Illuminacho's cheese, Masons and so on a side, 600 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: this story gets stranger because to to you guys point, yes, 601 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: a lot was disclosed and a lot of it is 602 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: still you know, Taal's oldest time, very tantalizing. But the 603 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 1: horror proof the Brazilian government hasn't come out and said, hey, also, 604 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 1: here's one of the UFOs. Take a look around. You 605 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: can ride in it. We'll sell you some We'll sell 606 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: you some juice boxes at the concession stand. No. Instead, 607 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: we find that the only reports that have been released 608 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: to the public were the ones covered by the Air 609 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: Force to see the brazil only an army and the 610 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: Brazilian Navy are suspected to have multiple long running programs 611 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: of their own which have not been made public, and 612 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: we the public are also waiting for stuff that was 613 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: beyond the typical secret classification. There's stuff there. There's stuff 614 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: somewhere in the dusty ben somewhere that is top secret, 615 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: maybe matters of national defense and so on. And here's 616 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: where the story gets even stranger. It turns out that 617 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: a lot of those reports that were drawings and photos 618 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: and stuff that were originally supplied to the Brazilian Air 619 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: Force from that small investigative team came from a single guy. 620 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,240 Speaker 1: He was the second in command we mentioned earlier, Sergeant 621 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: Flavio Costa. Costa passed away, but in a series of 622 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 1: later interviews we found his son would speak about growing 623 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: up with you know, this uh military UFO hunter as 624 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: a father, and this guy, Fernando Costa, had some really 625 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: interesting things to say. It turns out that just like 626 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: Captain Hilanda, and just like Harry Reid, Flavio got a 627 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: little bit looser about his experiences when he retired. Yes, 628 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: and one of these things that seemed to haunt him 629 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 1: was a picture, a series of pictures of these three 630 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: circles in the ground. There are three circles that appear 631 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: to have been burned into the grass in one of 632 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: these areas that they were investigating. And it's really it's 633 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: really weird because it's three circles kind of in a 634 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: triangular form, and they were tested for radioactivity and they 635 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: came back positive for being radioactive. And I mean, it 636 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: feels as though that's pretty hard evidence of something landing 637 00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,959 Speaker 1: there or something occurring in that spot where those three 638 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: circles were. Again, the the claim that there is hard evidence, right, 639 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: similar to the claims made by Bigelow Aerospace, which is 640 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: still really weird. Right. I'm not the only one who 641 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: thinks it was a really weird place, Okay, But again, 642 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: this is this is a tale told from a father 643 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: to a son, right specifically about the radioactivity of those circles. 644 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: So you do have to keep that in mind. But 645 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: it feels as though it was his personal belief. Yeah, 646 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: that's true. Also, you know, we have to consider that 647 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: context beyond just the father and son relationship. It was 648 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: occurring in an informal setting. It was probably, like I 649 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: think there's a part in one of the interviews at 650 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: least where Fernando says, my father would loosen up and 651 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: tell me about his experiences, usually after Sunday lunch when 652 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: he had had a few drinks. And uh so it 653 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: could be. It doesn't mean it's invalid, but it does 654 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: mean it's not the same thing as congressional testimony or something. 655 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: But to the note about subject matter experts, Costa was 656 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: a graduate meteorologist from the School Specialist of Brazilian Aeronautics, 657 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: so he would have been very well aware of the 658 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: usual mundane phenomena often mistaken for UFOs, right, like he 659 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: would know what a weather balloon looked like, he would 660 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 1: know what a sun dog was or something like that. 661 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: He also costed the Elder speculated on the possibility that 662 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: wait for it, the Colades ufo flap might maybe have 663 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: something to do with the phenomena known as the chupa Copra. 664 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: Oh boy, yeah, because that was a big news story local, 665 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: you know, in the same way that I mean, I 666 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: mean larger than just in this particular area. That chupacabra 667 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: was super in the zeitgeist at the time, right, yeah, yeah, 668 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: So in the nineties nineties there was a panic, well, 669 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: there was series, there was a series of panics about 670 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: the chupa cobra goat sucker, and this spread through Latin 671 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: America and parts of the southwestern US. So this guy Costa, 672 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: he says, you know, I've looked at this is such 673 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: a cinematic moment. He says, I've looked at all the 674 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: evidence I've I've liked correlated all these reports and the maps, 675 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: and and from what I can tell, there appears to 676 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: be a correlation with this UFO citing phenomena and a fault, 677 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,919 Speaker 1: a geodesic fault that goes from the central plateau too 678 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: coloris And he said, you know a lot, if I 679 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: look at all the stuff we compile, the hundreds and 680 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of reports, they seem to occur along this fault line, 681 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: which is another thing you don't usually see associated with 682 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 1: UFO stories of this magnitude. But as as as you said, 683 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 1: the chupacabra was in the public zeitgeist. And this is 684 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 1: something that Fernando cost To himself notes when he talks 685 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: about his father. Yeah, and just to reiterate, that fault 686 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: line is where there are two plates right of parts 687 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: of the earth and that are that move along with 688 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 1: each other um and like it's a fascinating concept here 689 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: that perhaps that fault line has something to do with 690 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: this phenomena and with chupacabra. And yeah, and that would 691 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: mean with the water, with the submerging back into the 692 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: water to reach where the fault line is there we go. 693 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if for anybody who wants to get really 694 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,439 Speaker 1: familiar with a with a fault, and we're talking about 695 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: tectonic plates, check out the San Andreas faults here in 696 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: the US, also known as uh the leading cause of 697 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: future beachfront real estate in Arizona. Yeah, but it'll be, 698 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: it'll be, it'll be a long time. It'll be a 699 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: while hopefully. But I love your point, Matt. I hadn't 700 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: considered that that they would be diving into the water, 701 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: I say, they, Um, we don't have any proof, of course, 702 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: of some kind of pilot. Uh. We do know that 703 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 1: the investigative teams believed there was some sort of intelligence 704 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: guiding these things. But I I did not consider the 705 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: idea that they may be going in the water to 706 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: get closer to the fault, maybe to go into the 707 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 1: hollow earth. No man, oh man. So so, Fernando says, 708 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: the chupacabra for Aminan took a great space in the 709 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: local media, which generated some conflict between the military and 710 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: the part of the press. There are some stories he 711 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: says that then Captain Holanda invaded the office of a 712 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: newspaper and confiscated pictures related with the Operation Saucer. So 713 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: that's strange because they're doing a chupacabra story and then 714 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: someone from the military shows up, someone from military intelligence 715 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:34,360 Speaker 1: shows up and takes the pictures from the reporters. That's amazing. 716 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: That makes the new story nowadays, that makes the news 717 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,319 Speaker 1: story ten times more visible. You know what I mean? 718 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: Wait a second, I see what's happening here. Costa is 719 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:50,360 Speaker 1: the one who's talking about the chupacabra. He's the meteorologist. Correct, Okay, 720 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,720 Speaker 1: Coasta realizes what it actually is, that it's chupacabra baby. 721 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: And then Holanda, who is who is like doing the 722 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: saw release of the information back in who said, you know, yeah, 723 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,439 Speaker 1: it was a thing, it's it was crazy, it was cool, 724 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: check it out, um, But he doesn't want you to 725 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: know the real story. Then Costa figures it out. He 726 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,640 Speaker 1: puts the pieces together, and the hold on is like 727 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, 728 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,240 Speaker 1: we can't. We can't let we can't let the people 729 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: of Brazil know about trooper cobras from space. Uh yes 730 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,280 Speaker 1: printed uh Troupa cobras from space. Yeah. It's strange because 731 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: I was looking back at the timeline of the reports 732 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:40,919 Speaker 1: and and the numb the witnesses saying that they had 733 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: the blood sucked out of them by these energy beams. 734 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: They they were, they were saying this before Costa started 735 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: making these claims. So I don't know, it's still possible 736 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: that that the chupa cobra was just on his mind, ubconsciously, 737 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,240 Speaker 1: like like many people in the area at the time. 738 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: But still, I like the idea of Choopa copras from space. 739 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why there is no hard evidence of uh 740 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: that specific cryptod existing. Maybe it's because they just go 741 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: back into the hollow word. Like I like the idea 742 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: of baby Chupa cabras, and I'm surprised that no one 743 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,360 Speaker 1: has taken that up as some sort of like child 744 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, toy brand, you know, baby Chuper, like like 745 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,880 Speaker 1: sort of like uh my little chip, Yeah, you know, 746 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: like care Bears with like something more chupacabra based. I 747 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: think the kids these days they got real dark senses 748 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,959 Speaker 1: of humor. I think they would go for it. You can, uh, 749 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,439 Speaker 1: you can, of course, Uh, you can, of course get 750 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,399 Speaker 1: one in the mail if you if you sign up 751 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: for our conspiratorial Uh. We gotta think of the names. 752 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm so excited about the names are going to come 753 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: up with for our conspiratorial food brand. Watch out, nest Lee, 754 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 1: there's a new show in town. Uh. But first we 755 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,919 Speaker 1: have to finish this episode. And unfortunately this episode does 756 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 1: not have a definitive conclusion at this time. As we 757 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 1: record today, there are more Brazilian UFO cases that have 758 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: yet to be released to the Brazilian public, and we 759 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 1: currently do not know when or if that info will 760 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 1: be released, and we don't know what kind of stuff 761 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: it might contain. There are alleged leaks, aren't there always 762 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,319 Speaker 1: arguing that something bigger is on the horizon, But the 763 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,760 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is you just don't know until 764 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: you actually see it. Members of the government have gone 765 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,919 Speaker 1: on record against any kind of disclosure. One Brigadier Jose 766 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: Carlos Perea, who was a former commander of operations for 767 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,839 Speaker 1: the entire Brazilian Air Force, specifically said they would not 768 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,400 Speaker 1: be disclosing documents that harm people's privacy, induced panic to 769 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 1: the population, or put the country's security at risk even 770 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: through translation. That's I was like a spot on impression 771 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,600 Speaker 1: of things that other government officials in the US and 772 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:10,359 Speaker 1: abroad has said. So really quick, I have to I 773 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: have to ask you all, what do you think is 774 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,479 Speaker 1: most likely right? The skeptics in the crowd are gonna say, 775 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:22,360 Speaker 1: moral panic, public outbreak of hysteria, or maybe repressed or 776 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,759 Speaker 1: suppressed military technology, possibly from a foreign power. You know, 777 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: like a lot of countries, a lot of non US 778 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: countries were really freaked out by the first stealth bombers. 779 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,799 Speaker 1: Those were UFOs, for sure. I think that's a pretty 780 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, that's the stance that most people are going 781 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:45,640 Speaker 1: to have. But this particular thing is so much fun 782 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: to imagine. We come across topics like this not infrequently, 783 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: but you know, every once while we get one that 784 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 1: is just so much fun to think about the possibilities 785 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: the way the way Costa did. I I frankly love 786 00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: this and I don't care if it's real or not. 787 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,719 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the guide Stones. I want to, uh, 788 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: I just want to sit there and imagine what it 789 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: could be until somebody in the military comes forward and 790 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: says definitively this is what it is. And then we 791 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: have then we have to believe them, just kind of 792 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,360 Speaker 1: revel in the mystery of it all, you know, Ah, yes, please, 793 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm fascinating. I mean, something, something clearly happened, right, Something 794 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 1: clearly happened. And even if we strip away, uh, the 795 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: socio economic or the psychological trappings of this and the 796 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: framing and the perspective and the bias of the investigators 797 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,120 Speaker 1: and the bias of the ufologists and so on and 798 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: on and on and on, something happened right, And finding 799 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: out that something happened here, uh, lead us to understand 800 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,759 Speaker 1: that the resilient government thinks other things happened, and they're 801 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,680 Speaker 1: still not really comfortable talking about it. We just don't 802 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,279 Speaker 1: know why. And now the government is very much and 803 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: if you give a mouse a cookie situation with these topologists, 804 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,520 Speaker 1: I love that. Do you know what started in nineteen 805 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:28,359 Speaker 1: seventy eight officially Project Stargate? Uh? If what if these 806 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: were psychic projections from from Fort Meade in Maryland where 807 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 1: where they were projecting themselves out into the world, and 808 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,960 Speaker 1: they didn't realize they were actually harming people. They were 809 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: looking around Brazil. Um, it's just I'm joking, but it 810 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: is interesting. That is when Stargate happened. Hang on, I 811 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,040 Speaker 1: was going to say we should contact Ingo Swan, but 812 00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:02,120 Speaker 1: he has h he has passed away. Ah, but yeah, 813 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: maybe the correlations here are amazing. I want to do 814 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: more cryptid stuff too. I don't I don't think we've 815 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,480 Speaker 1: ever done a chupacabra episode, but we did do what 816 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: a cattle mutilation and we found some some interesting things 817 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: from both sides of the aisle there. Well maybe I 818 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 1: don't know. It came up in our wonderful interview with 819 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,440 Speaker 1: Jake Hanrahan uh that he's into cryptids. Uh, maybe we 820 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,799 Speaker 1: bring him back for our Cryptid's episode. He seemed like 821 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,360 Speaker 1: he'd be down just throwing it out there. Fully cricket 822 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,879 Speaker 1: not crickets. So hey, let us know what you think 823 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,920 Speaker 1: about all of this stuff. You can reach us easily 824 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,000 Speaker 1: on social media where we are conspiracy stuff on Twitter 825 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: and Facebook, conspiracy stuff show on Instagram, that's right. Um, 826 00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,680 Speaker 1: on Facebook in particular, we'd love for you to join 827 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,399 Speaker 1: the party. And here's where it gets crazy. Our home 828 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,320 Speaker 1: away from home on the Internet, where you can mingle 829 00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 1: with your fellow conspiracy realists. Easiest thing in the world 830 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:01,400 Speaker 1: to get in. All you gotta do is name and 831 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: name any name, uh you know and involved directly with 832 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,960 Speaker 1: the show, or make Ben laugh, or just let us 833 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,160 Speaker 1: know that you're a real human person and you are 834 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 1: in I even sometimes I'll let people in the just 835 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,680 Speaker 1: say don't recall you know. It's that's fine. We welcome 836 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: all um. But that's a fun way to interact with us. Um. 837 00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,479 Speaker 1: You can also give us a telephone call, can't you. Yeah, 838 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,919 Speaker 1: that's right. If you are not quite uh, if you're 839 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,280 Speaker 1: not quite on board with this whole social media fad 840 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: and you want to stick to the old ways, you 841 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,879 Speaker 1: can reach us directly. We're one eight three three st 842 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: d w y t K. You have three minutes. They 843 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 1: are yours to use as you will. All that we 844 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,319 Speaker 1: ask is that you tell us whether or not you 845 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,520 Speaker 1: are okay with us using your name and or voice 846 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: on the show. Hey, just quick shout out to the 847 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,080 Speaker 1: person that I talked to on the phone the other day, 848 00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,960 Speaker 1: thank you for attempting to help us track down more 849 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,839 Speaker 1: or info. Please write to us if you actually get it. 850 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,000 Speaker 1: You know who you are. All right, cryptic, I love it. 851 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: But how do people write to us? Matt, Well, it's 852 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,800 Speaker 1: so so simple. You get on an email machine whatever 853 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,240 Speaker 1: when you have, and just types of letters and some numbers, 854 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,360 Speaker 1: whatever you gotta do. And in the end, uh with 855 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 1: that little box that says to just put conspiracy at 856 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:47,600 Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 857 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,279 Speaker 1: to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. For 858 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 859 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,600 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 860 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:56,280 Speaker 1: favorite shows.