WEBVTT - Edelman on Brand Trust

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We've mentioned this before when he

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<v Speaker 1>has joined us. Richard Edelman is in constant communication with

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<v Speaker 1>corporate leaders really all leaders at organizations, government and of

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<v Speaker 1>course the business world and elsewhere. He is the founder

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<v Speaker 1>and c of the global communications firm Edelman, and he

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<v Speaker 1>joins us on the phone in New York. And Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>it's great to have you back with us. UM, we're

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<v Speaker 1>really delighted to have you here. And it's on a

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<v Speaker 1>day when you guys, you do this annually, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think you recently did an adjustment to I think the

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<v Speaker 1>most recent one or last year's. UM. But we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the Edelman Trust Barometer Report and you take a

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<v Speaker 1>look at brand trust specifically. Tell us remind our our

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<v Speaker 1>listeners a little bit about this report and what you

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<v Speaker 1>guys found. So UM, we found something quite remarkable, Carol,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that, in fact, trust has emerged as the

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<v Speaker 1>second most powerful means um to stimulate somebody to buy

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<v Speaker 1>a brand, right after price comes trust. Do I trust

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<v Speaker 1>the brand ahead of ingredients, customer service? UM? Where I

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<v Speaker 1>can buy it? UM, It's amazing and it's actually because

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<v Speaker 1>of UM COVID nineteen and the protests around systemic racism,

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<v Speaker 1>it's caused people to completely re evaluate how they buy brands,

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<v Speaker 1>and so tell us about how that manifests. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>what does that mean? You know brands so well, Richard?

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<v Speaker 1>How will that ultimately influenced behavior? And how soon it's

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<v Speaker 1>happening right now? UM, I'm a brand belief buyer, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>if I see that a brand stands up for things

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<v Speaker 1>that I believe in, then I'm going to buy it.

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<v Speaker 1>And if I don't, I'll boycotted say bad things. UM. Switch.

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<v Speaker 1>So people told us that they have switched brands in

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<v Speaker 1>the last three months since COVID started as to whether

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<v Speaker 1>they feel a company UM has did appropriately. That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Also tried new brands and switched on that basis. So

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<v Speaker 1>almost half the people. That's remarkable, And I was just thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Richard, it comes on a day you heard

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<v Speaker 1>Charlie Pellet talk about UNI lever halting US ads on

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook and Twitter. Through you had we talked earlier about

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<v Speaker 1>JP Morgan ditching customers who use its workers with racism.

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<v Speaker 1>They're talking about customers who call into their call centers

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<v Speaker 1>they've already gotten rid of some customers. I mean, we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing companies really take action pretty pretty swiftly and rightfully. So,

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<v Speaker 1>if I may add, I think I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>a big moment for brands. I think that brands in

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<v Speaker 1>a certain way are the new corporation, meaning that there's

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<v Speaker 1>this new expectation also Carol, that they're going to take

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<v Speaker 1>care of workers, that the employees of KFC or whoever

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<v Speaker 1>have to be protected with ppe with uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>new ways of laying out the restaurants, making sure that

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<v Speaker 1>the workers are good. Um, that's a big new responsibility

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<v Speaker 1>for brands, and I think profound. Yeah. You know what's interesting, Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>and poor Carroll has been enduring this with me. All

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<v Speaker 1>we get in my interview with Maverick Carter and Lebron

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<v Speaker 1>James this week. You know, one of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>Maverick Carter said was one of the ways this transcends

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<v Speaker 1>this moment is if companies get beyond statements and get

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<v Speaker 1>to action and you know, you just outline some things

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<v Speaker 1>just there. Uh, but that does feel important and different.

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<v Speaker 1>And I wonder what you make of that, because you

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<v Speaker 1>talked to CEOs all the time, and I'm sure, you

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<v Speaker 1>advise them on what to say, but I'm guessing they're

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<v Speaker 1>often more often turning to you to say, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>I've said this, Now what do I do? Well? Interestingly,

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<v Speaker 1>it falls in a bunch of buckets. The first is,

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<v Speaker 1>let's fix history, so Antemima, cream of Weed, Uncle Ben's

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<v Speaker 1>those are images that are dated, they have to change.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there is where we do at the present. Um

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<v Speaker 1>you know Walmart's decision this week to stop selling um

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<v Speaker 1>flags of the state of Mississippi because they have the

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<v Speaker 1>Confederate Battle Battle flag within. That's amazing. Uh. And similarly, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know a brand like Dove deciding to run at

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<v Speaker 1>last Sunday on the SPS saying that, um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's no Father's Day because too many black um fathers

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<v Speaker 1>have been put in jail. That's a brand standing up

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<v Speaker 1>and speaking up. And when that happens, a brand gets

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<v Speaker 1>four times more trust than standing aside. And race has

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<v Speaker 1>always been the third rail of the American conversation. And

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<v Speaker 1>when brands go into race, you know that it's a

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<v Speaker 1>big moment because go ahead, no, no, you finished? Please please? No.

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<v Speaker 1>I just think it's it tells you everything that belief

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<v Speaker 1>driven buyers want brands to speak up that the new

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<v Speaker 1>expectation is don't be a chicken, don't put your head down.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you need to stand for me. You need

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<v Speaker 1>to be out there for me. I love change what

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to, you know, jump in And I feel like, Jason,

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of piggybacks off of something you said. But

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<v Speaker 1>we had a guest on um linnair Irvin, she's president

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<v Speaker 1>of the Center for Talent Innovation, and she said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>these these folks, these leaders who make external statements, They've

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<v Speaker 1>got to first fix their home, their their houses internally

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<v Speaker 1>and earn the right to make those statements externally about

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<v Speaker 1>getting rid of racism and being a diverse organization. So

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<v Speaker 1>tell me, I'm curious in the conversation to having Richard

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<v Speaker 1>that these companies that are making these great moves and statements,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, publicly, how much are how much of the

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<v Speaker 1>conversation is changing internally and not just the conversation but

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<v Speaker 1>actions internally, so that what they say externally represents what

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<v Speaker 1>they do internally in their organization, in other words, making

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<v Speaker 1>it diverse and getting rid of racism. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>there are the first step obviously is fix your own house.

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<v Speaker 1>Such that you have a diverse board, that you have

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<v Speaker 1>a broader array of both black and Hispanic executives in

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<v Speaker 1>your firm, and then educate and advocate so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>then you have to pick up on the issues. And

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<v Speaker 1>then the third is actually get involved in fixing things.

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<v Speaker 1>So Ben and Jerry's ice Cream actually hires people who

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<v Speaker 1>have had misdemeanors, felony misdemeanors, and they say, we don't care.

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<v Speaker 1>That changes the game because it enables someone who has

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<v Speaker 1>been imprisoned to get a job and not be unemployed

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<v Speaker 1>for the rest of his or her life. Yeah, it's faction, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and we know ultimately so much of what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>is a financial poverty issue, and it's economic and that's

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<v Speaker 1>what it comes down to. Um, We're going to continue

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<v Speaker 1>our conversation with Richard Edelman. He's the founder and CEO

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<v Speaker 1>of the global communications firm Edelman joining us on the

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<v Speaker 1>phone in New York City talking about their Trust Barometer

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<v Speaker 1>Special Report or Brand Trust. I. You know, we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about it a lot, Jason, but I do feel like

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<v Speaker 1>it's taking on a whole new meaning against the backdrop

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<v Speaker 1>of the virus from the last four months, and also

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<v Speaker 1>of course, of what happened in Minneapolis, what happened to

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<v Speaker 1>George Floyd. And you know we're talking about racism and

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<v Speaker 1>diversity once again, right And and I think that Richard

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<v Speaker 1>makes such an interesting point that for so long people

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't talk about companies. I'm not going near that, and

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<v Speaker 1>now they are rightly getting dinged for not going. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's amazing how much that has flipped. UM and it

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<v Speaker 1>slipped very fast. Can hit the snooze button anymore, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Heard that. Somewhere still with us is Richard Edelman, the

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<v Speaker 1>founder and CEO of Edelman, joining us on the phone

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<v Speaker 1>in New York City. We've been talking about Edelman Trust

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<v Speaker 1>Barometer special report and looking really at brand trust. But Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel really bad. How are you doing? I meant

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you that at the top. So, UM, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a challenging time for the marketing services field because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>everything from hospitality to travel to um the energy business,

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<v Speaker 1>car businesses is off. So you know, clients have been

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<v Speaker 1>cutting budgets. But I've never felt more um inspired by

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<v Speaker 1>what I do. So, you know, working with clients on

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<v Speaker 1>how they can keep their employees working effectively from home,

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<v Speaker 1>or this incredible movement of brands to want to speak

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<v Speaker 1>up on behalf of their customers is a great opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>for us relative to ad agencies UM and and so

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<v Speaker 1>literally we worked with Unilever UM in a week come

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<v Speaker 1>up with a piece of content for UM for Father's

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<v Speaker 1>Day that was so compelling about African Americans and families

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<v Speaker 1>and good African American fathers. And you know that that

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<v Speaker 1>just excites me and makes me. And similarly, for Edge

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<v Speaker 1>and Emoto, we came up with a campaign called take

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<v Speaker 1>out Hate UM because Edge and Immoto makes MSG and

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<v Speaker 1>supply Japanese and Chinese restaurants and people. As you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're blaming the Chinese and blaming those restaurants, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because of COVID, kung fluid or whatever. And we took

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<v Speaker 1>out we did a campaign called take out Hate and

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<v Speaker 1>we said, patronize those restaurants because these are good people.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the way, the food is delicious and it's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 1>So those kind of campaigns just excite me. Like hell

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<v Speaker 1>and Richard, you know, I do wonder you know, given

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<v Speaker 1>that you are so trusted by a lot of CEOs,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like you have the conversations that Carol and

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<v Speaker 1>I as journalists, we always want to be in the

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<v Speaker 1>room for because they're getting real with you. UM. You

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<v Speaker 1>know you're always the guy that we want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to about those conversations. UM, and we know that you

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<v Speaker 1>have confidences to keep in all that. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when you think about the conversations you're having with CEOs

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<v Speaker 1>and members of boards of directors and things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>do they feel different Because you've managed through so many crises,

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<v Speaker 1>You've helped companies do so many crises. And I wonder,

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<v Speaker 1>we keep asking this question about whether this will be different,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wonder what you make of it. It's different

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<v Speaker 1>than O one and oh eight by far. This actually

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<v Speaker 1>is UM, not just an economic change. It's a values change.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's partly because we're in a very fraught political moment,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's also because it feels as if COVID has

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<v Speaker 1>scared the heck out of us, not just an economic sense,

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<v Speaker 1>but in a personal in health sense, and so our

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<v Speaker 1>values are different. And you know, people are spending more

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<v Speaker 1>time at home and they're with their kids, and they're

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they're not traveling, and and you know they're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of figure out when do I have to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to the office. Do I have to go back

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<v Speaker 1>to the office? And um, So the conversations with the

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<v Speaker 1>CEOs are profound because they are having to make a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of change very quickly, and they're realizing also that

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<v Speaker 1>they have to step into the shoes of government in

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<v Speaker 1>many cases because you know, this return to work and

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<v Speaker 1>are we going too fast? And do we require masks?

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<v Speaker 1>And what's the safe way for our employees. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>that's the cold face that we're at the front of

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<v Speaker 1>right now. They can't hide behind government if I can,

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<v Speaker 1>if I can piggyback on. I think what what Jason

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<v Speaker 1>was also getting at was just you know, not just

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the disparities that were revealed by the virus,

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<v Speaker 1>but the last month in terms of racism, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>companies have been talking about setting up focus groups and

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<v Speaker 1>taking steps to improve you know, diversity at their companies

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<v Speaker 1>and yet Business Week kind of unbelievable cover last week,

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<v Speaker 1>has amazing cover this week too with Lebron James. In

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<v Speaker 1>case you missed it, Jason did that story in that interview,

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<v Speaker 1>but last week it was showing visually the lack of

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<v Speaker 1>diversity in corporate America when it comes to black CEOs. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a handful, and it's here we are. The number

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<v Speaker 1>is for right. So we've been talking about this and

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<v Speaker 1>companies have supposedly been talking about it and taking steps

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<v Speaker 1>not just this year, but for years, decades. We've been

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<v Speaker 1>talking about it, and our guests have talked about you know, racism.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been part of this country for four hundred years.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we how do we really move the needle,

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<v Speaker 1>and how do we know it is different this time

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<v Speaker 1>around that we actually get some action so that when

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<v Speaker 1>we look around our companies it's diverse all the way

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<v Speaker 1>up to the top. I think that we have to

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<v Speaker 1>do what you know we're doing in fun, which is

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<v Speaker 1>we're putting a person African American on our board within

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<v Speaker 1>the next thirty days, and we are promoting a person

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<v Speaker 1>who deserves it too to the operating committee on the

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<v Speaker 1>executive side. And we are going to go to primarily

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<v Speaker 1>black colleges and find people as opposed to waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>them to come to us. And we're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>very specific targets for how we change our company because

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<v Speaker 1>we're not sufficiently you know, I think our diversity number

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<v Speaker 1>is between black and hispanic, but within within senior management,

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, twelve percent, that's just not good enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have to be intentional and we have to

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 1>be rigorous, and it has to be measured. And I

0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.679
<v Speaker 1>think every company has to follow that pattern, um and say,

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, this is the moment to wake up, Um,

0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>this this is this is in America where half the

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:44.080
<v Speaker 1>millennials are people of color. Yeah, and let's let's let's move. Yeah,

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.679
<v Speaker 1>why to stay on TikTok? Because they get it right? Absolutely? Yeah,

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean that everything, everything has changed, and we just

0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 1>hope that it's not for the moment. A lot of

0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:00.319
<v Speaker 1>conversations about extending that into something that is asking you

0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>in anyways, Richard Edelman, always thoughtful. We really appreciate it.

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 1>We appreciate all the time you spend with us. You've

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 1>really been one of our go to voices through this

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.360
<v Speaker 1>entire uh pandemic and then the more recent crisis. As

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 1>we go through a real reckoning because we know, Carol,

0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 1>companies are ultimately going to have to lead this. We

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 1>know it. It is this, This is an economic problem,

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.040
<v Speaker 1>it's a business problem, and ultimately, if companies don't, it

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 1>won't get solved. Right, and they said, you know that

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 1>right now consumers are looking at those brands, what they're doing,

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 1>what changes they're making, and they are switching money talks