1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: Well come, well come, welcome, well, come, well, come, welcome,

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 1: Welcome home everybody. This is Keiviny Cross, Angela, Rye and

3
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 1: A and Gill and this is a mini pod and

4
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 1: we don't know what we're about to talk about.

5
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,600
Speaker 2: Yes, that was Angela's suggestion that we wait and figure

6
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 2: out what we're going to talk about. And I was saying,

7
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 2: listen record, yeah, which, well, we've heard you guys in

8
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 2: the audience ask us about what we're reading, what we

9
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 2: like to read, and so I thought this might be

10
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 2: a good opportunity for the co host to share some

11
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: of their favorite books and things we would recommend to

12
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 2: you guys. I know I have a lot. I, as

13
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,840
Speaker 2: I talked about, have read Charles Blow's book The Devil,

14
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 2: you know, so I would love for folks to read

15
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,639
Speaker 2: that we can have a conversation about it. I am

16
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: reading The Color of Money, Wealth and Black Banks. I

17
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: might have the subtitle wrong, but it's MRSA but Darridon.

18
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that's my fair name. I had her on

19
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 2: my show some years ago and started the book and

20
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,639
Speaker 2: in bear so did not finish it. And I hate

21
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 2: when folks, when people do that. This is a question

22
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 2: I'll ask you, guys, I might be a bit of

23
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,720
Speaker 2: a I don't think it's snobbery. I think it's just

24
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 2: the art of reading. I do not think audio listen.

25
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 2: When people say they listen to the audiobook, I don't

26
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,680
Speaker 2: know if that's reading. And I say that because, like

27
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 2: your brain literally processes it differently and for the right

28
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,559
Speaker 2: like when you read something, you're comprehended. It's the difference

29
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 2: between listening to a podcast like y'all are doing now,

30
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 2: versus actually reading the words, like your brain literally processes it.

31
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 2: And so you know, and you have friends with kids

32
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:37,800
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, I did the audiobook, and the

33
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 2: parents are like, no, no, no, you need to read

34
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 2: the book. I think if I had kids, i'd be

35
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,040
Speaker 2: one of those parents, like, you have to strengthen that skill.

36
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 2: You have to read. So do you all think that

37
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 2: audio books counts as reading?

38
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are an auditory learner, yeah what some

39
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: people are. Some people like I need to hear it

40
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: out loud. In fact, when I'm actually reading, whether it's

41
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 1: a report or a book or even an article, sometimes

42
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 1: I will say out loud to myself a piece that

43
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: is something I want to want to remember, a piece

44
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,400
Speaker 1: that I may want to go back to now. I

45
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 1: love I love physical books because I like writing in them.

46
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 1: I got tabs for days. If you wanted to get

47
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 1: me a you know, a gift and you don't know

48
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: what I like, she just get me some post its

49
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 1: because they're going to end up in books the flags. Yeah,

50
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: all of that. I love it, and mainly because I

51
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 1: even commit you know, certain passages to memory when they're

52
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 1: really you know, that thought provoking and that kind of thing.

53
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think audio books work just as fine.

54
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,640
Speaker 1: I tell my kids all the time because my son, Jackson, particularly,

55
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: who's a really competitive reader, you know, wants me to

56
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: know that he started the day at page twenty three

57
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: and he ended at one hundred and twenty. I said,

58
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: well that's good, Jackson, but do you remember what you read?

59
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 1: But I would not object to at you know, at

60
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 1: some point when they get introduced to audio books to

61
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: them listening as well, we're gonna get the fundamentals of

62
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 1: reading down. We're gonna get the fundamentals of you know, uh,

63
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, root words, because it's going to be important

64
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: for you at some some point in time. But I

65
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: will tell you I have I have I have a

66
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 1: question one, does it make a difference to you listening

67
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,640
Speaker 1: versus reading yourself fiction nonfiction, Because I'll say this, for me,

68
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: I am I don't read fiction at all. In fact,

69
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: my therapist has told me you've got to you have

70
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: got to read more fiction. It is where the imagination. Yes,

71
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 1: you know it exists, and I'm so like, no, no, no,

72
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 1: But why would I waste my time on that one?

73
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: I know if I read this, this is history, this

74
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: is this, this is you know, these are things that

75
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 1: I can put under my under my tool bell. So

76
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: I got to still make that adjustment. But I do

77
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: wonder whether or not it would be different for me

78
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 1: if I were listening to an audiobook of a fiction

79
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: story versus an audio book of a fact story. And

80
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if it makes a difference to either of you.

81
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:22,480
Speaker 3: I will say, Lenard actually suggests reading the book and

82
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,719
Speaker 3: listening to it at the same time. He was telling

83
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 3: me that it was a good experience, and he did

84
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,719
Speaker 3: it with Viola Davis's book. So I did that with

85
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 3: Viola Davis's book, and I agree.

86
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,760
Speaker 4: So I think it depends.

87
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 3: I definitely am somebody the way my mind moves if

88
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,799
Speaker 3: I'm just listening to the audio book and I start

89
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 3: looking at something else or like I'm texting at the

90
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 3: same time, you can forget it.

91
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 4: I basically have blocked everything out.

92
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,799
Speaker 3: But if I'm concentrating just on that book or closing

93
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 3: my eyes and just listening to that book, it helps.

94
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,159
Speaker 3: But I did appreciate the experience of reading and listening

95
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 3: at the same time.

96
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 1: Plus fiction nonfiction equal leader.

97
00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,919
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not a fiction person.

98
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 3: I think that there was a time, like growing up,

99
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 3: where I was more of a fiction person. But I

100
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 3: think now there's so much going on. I feel like,

101
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 3: if I'm going to be reading, I wanted to be

102
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 3: historical based, strategy based, political based, economics based, something with

103
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 3: some solutions in there.

104
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 4: Yes, so I do know.

105
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,359
Speaker 3: The last fiction book that I was really into is

106
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 3: Derek Beale Faces at the Bottom of the Well in

107
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 3: law school, and it was because I could see it

108
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,600
Speaker 3: and here we are about to get shipped off the

109
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 3: hill to.

110
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 4: Marsh right now.

111
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,599
Speaker 3: So I mean I understand it. I asly has a

112
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,080
Speaker 3: little tinge of accuracy.

113
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,359
Speaker 2: I go through about a book a week, and I

114
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 2: try to go back and forth. If one week it's fiction,

115
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 2: the next week, I'll try to do nonfiction, but I

116
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 2: really enjoy fiction. Angela. You talked about finding me Viola Davis.

117
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 2: That book was therapy for me. I mean that book,

118
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 2: Viola Davis, just so I couldn't read or listen to that.

119
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 2: I read that, and I can't do audio at the

120
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 2: same time as reading because our are different. And I'll

121
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 2: read something over, like if a paragraph or even a

122
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,520
Speaker 2: sentence it's just beautifully constructed, I will read that over

123
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 2: and over and over and over. Tony Morrison said, ones

124
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 2: which I it is a torturous process to write. I

125
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 2: don't believe in ghostwriters either, because not that ghostwriters can't

126
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 2: have good books, but when people say I wrote a book,

127
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, did you write or did you have

128
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,160
Speaker 2: a ghostwriter? Because when you are writing Tony Morrison, when

129
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: I was fourteen, I was listening to a conversation with

130
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 2: her and Oprah and she was saying that as a writer,

131
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 2: you will take one sentence and structure it in every

132
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 2: possible way to make it the point that you want

133
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,320
Speaker 2: to see what works. And I tried to have a

134
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 2: discipline to do that. And it is a torturous process

135
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 2: and so but it's also a beautiful process when you're

136
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 2: all done. So I like the way that fiction doesn't

137
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,440
Speaker 2: constrict you to the realms of reality that you know.

138
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 2: It can still you can learn from it. It can

139
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 2: still based in history, but it's beautiful writing that you

140
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 2: know deeply explores. And with fiction, they're more than likely

141
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 2: is not a ghostwriter. With nonfiction sometimes, I think it's

142
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 2: particularly with biographies, people will, you know, hire somebody. I

143
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 2: know a lot of people who are like hired ghostwriters

144
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 2: who offered They're like, hey, I could write this chapter

145
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,080
Speaker 2: for you, and I'm like, as if I would never

146
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,680
Speaker 2: you know, I want to construct this myself. But this

147
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,600
Speaker 2: leaves me I have some sound that I want us

148
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 2: to listen to from a writer that I thought was

149
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 2: so amazing. She since passed away, but I'm sure many

150
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 2: of you have read Octavia Butler. Probably not you, Andrew,

151
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: since you or you Angela, I guess since you guys

152
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 2: don't read fiction, but her work it speaks to so

153
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 2: much that's happening right now. And she actually made a

154
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,520
Speaker 2: good point I think, around just the process of writing,

155
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 2: but also how she bases it in what's happening in society.

156
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 2: And she was so far ahead of her time, So

157
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:53,360
Speaker 2: take a listen.

158
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 5: I got the idea for it when I heard someone

159
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,160
Speaker 5: answer a political question with a political slogan, and he

160
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 5: didn't seem to realize that he was quoting somebody. He

161
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 5: seemed to have thought that he had a creative thought there,

162
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 5: And I wrote this verse. Beware, all too often we

163
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 5: say what we hear others say, We think what we

164
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 5: are told that we think, we see what we are

165
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 5: permitted to see. Worse, we see what we are told

166
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 5: that we see. Repetition and pride are the keys to this.

167
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 5: To see and to hear even an obvious lie again

168
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,960
Speaker 5: and again and again may be to say it almost

169
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 5: by reflex, then to defend it because we have said it,

170
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 5: and at last to embrace it because we've defended it,

171
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 5: and because we cannot admit that we've embraced and defended

172
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 5: an obvious lie. Thus, without thought, without intent, we make

173
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 5: mere echoes of ourselves, and we say what we hear

174
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 5: others say.

175
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 2: This is a work of fiction, But that beautifully constructed paragraph,

176
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 2: I think speaks to so much of what's happening in

177
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 2: society about how we will regurgitate a lie. And I

178
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 2: don't mean maga Republicans, you know, obviously that happens, but

179
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 2: I even mean amongst ourselves because something existed, or because

180
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 2: you know, we will take We talked about this in parody.

181
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 2: You know, Fox News will run a piece and then

182
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 2: the Shade Room will post it. You know, it's it

183
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,599
Speaker 2: is something where it dulls our intellect and it declines

184
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 2: our reasoned thinking. And so I don't know, I think

185
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 2: there are some lessons to learn in But when she

186
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 2: talked about that, I just thought, wow, that's true. I

187
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,480
Speaker 2: see that happening a lot from some things that took

188
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 2: place in the Black Church that I, you know, don't

189
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: agree with in adulthood. But people, you know, it's it's orthodoxy,

190
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's culture. These axioms become principal after a while.

191
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 2: And if we just imagine, but what if this is

192
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 2: not the case. What if this man saying this to

193
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: me is wrong? What if this leader projecting this to

194
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 2: me is incorrect? What if this leader really wants to

195
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,200
Speaker 2: rule and not lead and just to question everything around me?

196
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:40,320
Speaker 2: So fiction, I would say, can invite that kind of Yeah.

197
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,680
Speaker 1: Well that was beautiful. And what I loved about it is,

198
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: she said, Miss Butler, the obvious lie, right is obviously

199
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 1: not the truth. So we're not debating whether another is

200
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 1: true or false. We all are looking at the thing

201
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,280
Speaker 1: and saying it's not true, and then yeah, we keep listening,

202
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 1: and then we start to repeat, and then the repeating

203
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 1: becomes the you know, our foundation of defense, and we

204
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 1: fight over it. And now we've gotten so deep in

205
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 1: we cannot even acknowledge that we all knew it was

206
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,679
Speaker 1: a lie. And I just kept running with it.

207
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I love.

208
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: So I think, Tiffany, your appreciation is well learned. You're

209
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 1: a writer, and so you love words. You love the

210
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,719
Speaker 1: written word, not as you know, maybe not even the

211
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: spoken words so much as you love the written Yeah. Sure.

212
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,560
Speaker 1: Michael Harriett is one of those people who I have underlined,

213
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:37,320
Speaker 1: double underline circled because he's it feels like, while it

214
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 1: comes off so easy as a person who likes to

215
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,320
Speaker 1: see subtexts, I imagine a person who has, as you

216
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 1: described earlier, written a sentence so many different ways that

217
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,960
Speaker 1: he wants it to stick. He wants it to land,

218
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: and he wants it to land on first impact. I

219
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 1: appreciate you know, the written word as well, obviously more

220
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 1: more more fact than fiction, But I do want to

221
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: reprioritize and reorient myself a little bit here, because I

222
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 1: do think there's some truth in this sort of imaginative,

223
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 1: imaginative space where for a lot of my life I've

224
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: sort of had to live and deal in what is present,

225
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,839
Speaker 1: what I know to be the case, either what has

226
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,560
Speaker 1: happened or forecast to occur, And I do think it

227
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 1: robs us a little bit of the what's outside the box,

228
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,959
Speaker 1: what's not on the page, what isn't being said? Where

229
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 1: are the possibilities for this to go? And I think writers,

230
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: particularly those who are skilled at it, have a beautiful

231
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:50,000
Speaker 1: way of lifting us off of it. So I appreciate

232
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,800
Speaker 1: that about good writers, but I appreciate them in equal measure,

233
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: I think, both written and spoken.

234
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,079
Speaker 2: What would you recommend to our audience that they pick

235
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,959
Speaker 2: up and maybe even to me? Maybe I haven't read some.

236
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 4: Of the books you have, So this is one.

237
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 3: I'm using this one because this is a quote from

238
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 3: the Congressional Black Caucus that we say often it was

239
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 3: no permanent friends, permanent enemies, just permanent interests. And this

240
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 3: book is from William Lacey Clay. This is Congressrom Lacy

241
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 3: Clay's father, William Lacy Clay was one of the CBC founders,

242
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 3: and he talks about the journey of Black Americans in

243
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 3: Congress from eighteen seventy to nineteen ninety one. This book

244
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,720
Speaker 3: is called Critical Race Theory and it is a collection

245
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 3: of essays. It's a text that I used in law school.

246
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 3: This actually talks about this is It includes Kimberly Crenshaw

247
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 3: as well as many many other scholars. This book is

248
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 3: important because it will actually tell you about what critical

249
00:13:59,160 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 3: race theory.

250
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 4: Actually is, and not the donsonce they tell you. So.

251
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 3: The foreword is by corn O West is edited by

252
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,199
Speaker 3: Kimberly Crenshaw, Neil Gatanda, Gary Peller, and Kendall Thomas.

253
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:11,319
Speaker 4: Medical Apartheid.

254
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 3: I'm bringing this up because this woman, doctor Harriet Washington,

255
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 3: talks about why black folks don't or why the system,

256
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,520
Speaker 3: the healthcare system, the medical system has not proven itself

257
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 3: trustworthy to black people, which is a slight modification.

258
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 4: On what we normally talk about. Very good text.

259
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 3: Ron Brown, in addition to Reverend Jesse Jackson, Ron Brown's

260
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 3: picture was on our mantle in the house. My dad

261
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 3: was in a diehard Democrat, but what he loved about

262
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 3: Ron Brown was his way of advocating for black people.

263
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 3: He was the DNC chair and also was the Department

264
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 3: of Commerce Secretary under Bill Clinton. This is his memoir,

265
00:14:51,200 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 3: Ron Brown, An Uncommon Life. Asada obviously an autobiography, very important.

266
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 3: This is written by Asada Shakur. She is I believe,

267
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 3: the only woman on the FBI's most Wanted list. She

268
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 3: should not be there. Free Asida, all right. And finally,

269
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 3: my good brother, Resma Menechem, has a book called My

270
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 3: Grandmother's Hands.

271
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 4: It's a New York Times bestseller.

272
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 3: It helps deepen us into what ancestral trauma looks like,

273
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 3: what it means to regulate and corregulate our nervous systems,

274
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 3: and how to ensure that we heal from racialized trauma

275
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 3: in the body. It's a sematic therapy book that teaches

276
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 3: us different modalities to call upon to heal ourselves and

277
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 3: to heal the communities that.

278
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 4: We are a part of.

279
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 2: I did we meet him? Did we have dinner with him? Somewhere?

280
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 2: I remember you talking about this book that you just loved,

281
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,240
Speaker 2: and it was maybe it was he?

282
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 3: Definitely, I definitely have been breaking bread with Resma. Maybe

283
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 3: you were there, Tiff I'm sure, if not there in spirit,

284
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 3: oh yeah, he was.

285
00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 4: There was a panel for me.

286
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 2: That was years ago. I remember when you said that

287
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 2: for the centennial. Yep, what you got, Andrew oh Man.

288
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: I feel, for one, your book is all the way

289
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 1: at the top, as is my friend Kenisha doctor Kisha

290
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,960
Speaker 1: oh Grant. So I didn't get to pull them down saying.

291
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 4: You can't reach it. I didn't get my chip book

292
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 4: let me grab.

293
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: They're up at the top, but some that were closer

294
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,160
Speaker 1: down obviously up there is.

295
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 4: You know.

296
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 2: I feel like that was okay, Thank you guys. I

297
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 2: feel like that was my first book and I've turned

298
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 2: into rough draft and they published it because now when

299
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 2: I read it, I'm like, I would it never run

300
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: like that? But thank you.

301
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: Hey, you got a book out of friend. All right,

302
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 1: another one coming, so four hundred souls my fellow rattler

303
00:16:54,040 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 1: Iram Kenny and Keisha Blaine, and I especially especially especially enjoy.

304
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: I told you about my tabs and stuff and books,

305
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,120
Speaker 1: just just proof that I put tabs in books when

306
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: I read them. My favorite essayist contributor, of course, would

307
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: be none other than Michael Harriot.

308
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 2: Harriot Harriot, and I just have let it go.

309
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 1: But I don't know why, Michael, forgive me. I like

310
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: pronouncing it that way, but I'm gonna do it with you. Harriet,

311
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: Harriet Harriott, Who is our griot? Can I say?

312
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 4: Griotture Michael Harriot?

313
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 1: Okay, there it is, But I love The hero of

314
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 1: this drama is black people. All black people, the free blacks,

315
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: the uncloaked Maroons, the black elite, the preachers, the reverends,

316
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: the doormen and doctors, the sharecroppers and soldiers. They are

317
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: all protagonists in our epic adventure. Spoiler alert, the hero

318
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: of this story does not die ever. The hero is

319
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: long suffering, but unkillable, bloody, and unbowed. In this story

320
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,719
Speaker 1: and in all the subsequent sequels now and forever, this

321
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: hero almost never wins. But we still get to be

322
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 1: the heroes of the true American stories simply because we

323
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: are undestructible. Try as they might, we will never be

324
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 1: extinguished ever.

325
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,159
Speaker 4: Trying to figure out why you got to read excerpt.

326
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,880
Speaker 1: That's the That's the only one I read because he's

327
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,880
Speaker 1: one of my favorite And then of course Heaven McGee

328
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 1: the some of us again evidence I do tab Books

329
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: wrote wrote really beautifully and I think accessibly about why black, brown,

330
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 1: working class white folks should be in common cause with

331
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 1: each other. And then this is my political scientist in me,

332
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 1: because I think these are very important for anyone who

333
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 1: is interested in strategy around politics. The Art of war,

334
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 1: of course, sunsu Ah, the well Whi's One Talk Teaching

335
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: is also a must read, and the Analects of Confucius,

336
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,959
Speaker 1: and I just think these are important philosophical documents. And

337
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 1: in the Art of war, I think it is really

338
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: tactical and strategic and it has survived centuries. Uh, and

339
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 1: it's still highly regarded by I think political scientists around strategies,

340
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 1: strategies to win. And then just a just a slight favorite. Uh.

341
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: The Obstacle is the Way, I said, I think during

342
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 1: our New Year's show that the only way is through

343
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 1: m hm. You know you try to figure out, like God, Lee,

344
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: it's just this too much, you know, I just want

345
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: to blink out, numb out, And so The Obstacles the

346
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: Way is one of those books that just sort of

347
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: helps to encourage you to push through. Well, I have

348
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: not I got a lot of favorites.

349
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 2: I've not read any of the books that you guys reference.

350
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, but this is great because now yes, exactly

351
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: what black a f History, of course, but the other

352
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 2: books I had in all the books, Angela, read your

353
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 2: own book, I've read my own book, but the Asada Chaquur,

354
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: I'd really like to read that one. In the conversations

355
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: I've had with the elders lately, her name has come

356
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: up a lot, so I think I'm gonna put that

357
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 2: next on my list, So thank you, guys. Mine is

358
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 2: How to Say Babylon by Sophia Sinclair. And this was

359
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 2: recommended to me by Van Newkirk, who also recommended that

360
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 2: I write a book. I write my second book. But

361
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,479
Speaker 2: it's so beautifully written. I mean, just somebody I didn't know.

362
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: And you might think, well, why do I want to

363
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: read a memoir of someone I didn't know? But it

364
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 2: was so beautifully written and so captivating. I love it.

365
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 4: I'm about to order it.

366
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 2: And who has already talked about Black a f History?

367
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 2: But Michael Harritt Harriet Harry Ots Michael Harriet is such

368
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: a gift and his book was so popular it was

369
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 2: on the New York Times bestseller list forever fell off

370
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: and then inexplicably just bounced back on there because I

371
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: think people were like, oh, I didn't know it was

372
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 2: this dope, But there still have so many yes, and

373
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 2: I have so many highlights of this book. Another one

374
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: the Love Songs of W E. B.

375
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 4: Du Boys.

376
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 2: This is fiction, but it is beautifully beautifully written and

377
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: takes you through generations and time. I have others that

378
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: I don't have pictures of, but The Poison What Bible

379
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: is probably my all time favorite book by Barbara Kingsolv.

380
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,959
Speaker 2: I give that book away and Michael Harriet's book Away

381
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 2: and another book, Ghana Must Go. And I'm embarrassed to

382
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: not remember the writer's name. She's a woman. But it's

383
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 2: just an amazing book about three siblings who are Ghanaian

384
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: and it goes back and forth with them from Ghana

385
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: to America.

386
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 4: So that's my book.

387
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 2: So if you guys are looking for something to read,

388
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: that's your NLP, this summer reading list or autumn reading

389
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 2: list or whenever you get to your read Yes.

390
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 3: Exactly, I'm reading something from this now. Okay, this is

391
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 3: from Resma and I think it goes back to I

392
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: know this is an evergreen episode, so God only knows,

393
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: but this goes back to our episode from today that

394
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: we recorded prior. This is about when democracy falls is

395
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: I guess the name of the episode something like that.

396
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 4: It says.

397
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: An African American elder said to me recently. There is

398
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: a root to the trauma tree, and what we see

399
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: now is the fruit. That tree, which was planted roughly

400
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 3: fifteen centuries ago, now casts a shadow across our entire nation. Today,

401
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: many of us still feed each other. It's bitter, poisonous fruit.

402
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: None of us ask for this trauma, none of us

403
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 3: deserves it, yet none of us can avoid it. It

404
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: is part of our personal and national histories. In many

405
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 3: American bodies, the Civil War, or the American Revolution, or

406
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: the Crusades rages on.

407
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 4: Today. We're head of reckoning. We Americans have an opportunity

408
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 4: and an obligation to recognize the trauma embedded in our bodies,

409
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: to accept and metabolize the clean pain of healing, and

410
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 4: to move through and out of our trauma. This will

411
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: enable us to mend our hearts and bodies and to

412
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 4: grow up.

413
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: That That is why I like reading, because I would

414
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 2: read that over and over. It's beautiful to hear you

415
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: read it. But I don't even know if I could

416
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: that was so poetic and literate, and yes, like that's

417
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: something that.

418
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 3: You'll like about this to really and I'm serious, like

419
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: I'm not even saying this because of what you just said,

420
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 3: and it didn't occur to me though right now. I

421
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: think what you will appreciate about this book in particular

422
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 3: right now because of what you're moving through. And honestly,

423
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: I might challenge us all to I'll pick it back up, Andrew,

424
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: I would read this with you too.

425
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 4: There are somatic body based.

426
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: Practices in this book at the end of each chapter

427
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 3: to help you move through the trauma that you carry

428
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 3: in your DNA and the trauma that you are currently

429
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: experiencing by just living in this country. And so I

430
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: think that it really is a good like I was

431
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: going through it in twenty twenty. Yeah, but I think

432
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: it's a great thing just to have an embodied practice

433
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: to you know, metabolize the history, to feel what you're

434
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: feeling from a DNA and ancestral memory standpoint, to feel

435
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 3: what you're experiencing as you carry what feels familiar even

436
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: though we haven't lived it before, but like the breath

437
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 3: work of it all, like tapping into your nervous system.

438
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 3: Tapping into your survival instinct, no one want to tap

439
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 3: out of it.

440
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 4: Humming.

441
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: You know the practices that are like tapping your foot.

442
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: Those are all things that our ancestors did, and part

443
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: of that was helping them to move through their trauma.

444
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I will read draw A quick excerpt is

445
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: because but mind only one sentence. This is from Octavia Butler,

446
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: parable of the Sewer, And I didn't mention this book,

447
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: but I strongly encourage everyone to read that. It begins

448
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, but it was written in the

449
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: eighties or maybe the seventies. And this speaks to something

450
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: that we've talked about a few times on the podcast

451
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: over the weeks and months about immigration and people being

452
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 2: shipped off to offshore torture camps. And it's just one sentence.

453
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 2: The main the protagonist is a young girl and she

454
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: has a disorder some might say called hyper empathy, and

455
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: it causes her to feel whatever the other person is feeling,

456
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: so which is can be a good thing or it

457
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 2: could be a bad thing. If you're having sex with somebody,

458
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 2: you have your orgasm, you feel their orgasm. If someone yes, yes,

459
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: good point. If someone unfortunately, if someone is getting raped,

460
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: you feel their pleasure, but you feel your own terror

461
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: and pain. So the book goes through a lot of

462
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: things as she navigates her own hyper empathy. So the

463
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: one sentence I would just read is when she says,

464
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 2: if everyone could feel everyone else's.

465
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: Pain, who would torture amen?

466
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: So maybe we can move with a little bit of

467
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: empathy and imagine that we could feel everybody else's pain

468
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: and home Welcome Home.

469
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with

470
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: reisent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visits iHeartRadio app,

471
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.