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Speaker 1: Well, welcome to the first full week of May. Here's

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Speaker 1: the most important thing you need to know about this week.

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Speaker 1: Sunday is Mother's Day, sons and husband's Sunday is Mother's Day.

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Speaker 1: You know what that means. You still got time to

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Speaker 1: do all the delivery type things when you're hearing this podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is a public service message for myself, my son,

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Speaker 1: and all the husbands and sons out there who can't

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Speaker 1: wait till Saturday or Friday night to try to pull

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Speaker 1: this off. For the mothers, the grandmother's, Hi mom, and

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Speaker 1: all the other special moms of all sorts in your life.

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Speaker 1: So keep that in mind. I look forward to President

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Speaker 1: Trump going on truth social and wishing all the mothers,

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Speaker 1: even the losers, loser mothers, and the hater mothers, happy

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Speaker 1: Mother's Day. I'm sure that will be coming coming quite soon.

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Speaker 1: But I thought, if I can do anything for you

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Speaker 1: as a public service, it is that it is Actually

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Speaker 1: took a bit of a quick weekend respite. So what

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Speaker 1: did that really mean. It meant I got to navigate

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Speaker 1: Newark Airport. And if you followed my x feed at all,

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Speaker 1: you will know this. In the entire Northeast corridor, here

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Speaker 1: is the bottom line, all of the tri state leaders

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Speaker 1: need to get together. This is a mess. The train

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Speaker 1: situation is a mess. The Newark situation is a mess.

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Speaker 1: This is as big of a travel corridor as there is.

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Speaker 1: This is what makes people either trust government or not

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Speaker 1: trust government. Get this stuff right and they're amazed and impressed.

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Speaker 1: Get this stuff wrong, and this is what sort of

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Speaker 1: can leave a mark. And let's just say, look, there

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Speaker 1: has definitely been I think the Northeast Corridor has a

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Speaker 1: few disadvantages. Politically, it is considered a bluer area. It

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Speaker 1: is made getting sometimes Republican support for various transportation projects

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Speaker 1: that would be helpful in the Northeast corridor not necessarily

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Speaker 1: helpful in other parts of the country. It is tough

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Speaker 1: to get bipartisan support for this sometime. But look, this

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Speaker 1: is an important economic engine. The Northeast Corridor is the

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Speaker 1: gateway to this country when people come in. So it

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Speaker 1: is something everybody and of course it's really important when

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Speaker 1: it affects me, right, because that's what that's why we've

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Speaker 1: all started podcasts in order to get our own grievances

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Speaker 1: out of the way. So what grinds my gears is

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Speaker 1: that I semits. But the point is it is a

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Speaker 1: reminder of how government leaves an impression on the average person.

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Speaker 1: You may not be paying attention to politics, but you

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Speaker 1: pay attention when you can't get from point A to

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Speaker 1: point B. And this is the type of stuff. When

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Speaker 1: people are paying attention to government not working, it means

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Speaker 1: you have somehow interrupted their lives. Right. There's sort of

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Speaker 1: two types of voters, those that pay attention and those

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Speaker 1: that tune in on election day. And if you're disrupting

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Speaker 1: those that tune in on election day, they're the ones

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Speaker 1: that can turn election days into blue waves or red waves,

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Speaker 1: depending on who is in power. And that brings me

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Speaker 1: a little bit. As much as I'd like to wax

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Speaker 1: eloquently about the Alcatraz decision, I will just say one

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Speaker 1: thing about Alcatraz and the movie business. This idea of

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Speaker 1: tifying all movies that come from overseas note when they

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Speaker 1: came out. I don't think Donald Trump thought as Meet

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Speaker 1: the Press interview went very well. I think two things

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Speaker 1: really stayed sticky and I think will stick to him

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Speaker 1: from that interview. In particular, asked about following the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, even though he actually takes an oath

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Speaker 1: of office that says he promised he's going to defend

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Speaker 1: and protect the Constitution. He said, I don't know to

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Speaker 1: that when it came to following the Constitution. And then

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Speaker 1: he continues to double down in this idea that he's

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Speaker 1: going to play mister Scrooge and well, you know, two

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Speaker 1: dollars is enough. Well what about the person that can't

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Speaker 1: even afford the two dollars? What about that family? And

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Speaker 1: what's he going to say to them? It is an

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Speaker 1: unusual and watching sort of former Republicans who do not

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Speaker 1: like the idea of government deciding how many of anything

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Speaker 1: you can have, you can you know, sort of this idea,

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Speaker 1: this is this is what communism is about. Let's limit

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Speaker 1: the resources. You will hold back, you will decide, you know,

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Speaker 1: hoard and and you know, you get two pieces, two

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Speaker 1: loaves of bread for this family of six, but a

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Speaker 1: family of four gets one loaf of bread because that's

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Speaker 1: the rules from central from the central government. It is

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Speaker 1: a really weird place for President Trump to be going,

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Speaker 1: and it only I think invites more problems for the

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Speaker 1: Republicans as a whole in general. And again it continues

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Speaker 1: this uncomfortable ideological realignment that's taking place inside what we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to call our conservative party. But we've been going

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Speaker 1: through this. What is a conservative right? I always, you know,

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Speaker 1: the first word matters here conserve, which is less government,

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Speaker 1: you conserve the amount of And in some ways, sure,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to whack government with the sort of the

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Speaker 1: chainsaw and doge, but he also wants to use weaponize

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Speaker 1: government when it suits him. He wants to strengthen government

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Speaker 1: when it suits him. Decide who gets a doll and

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Speaker 1: who doesn't get a doll, Decide when there's a military

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Speaker 1: parade for his birthday, and things like that. So what

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Speaker 1: I would point out is I think it is not

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Speaker 1: an accident that by Sunday evening he needed a couple

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Speaker 1: of shiny metal object type of stories, and Alcatraz is

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Speaker 1: one of those shiny metal object stories as well as

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Speaker 1: somehow attacking Hollywood that would feed his base. And at

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Speaker 1: the same time, perhaps you know, do his little Jedi

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Speaker 1: mind trick on the news cycle. Pay no attention to

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Speaker 1: what I said about the Constitution, pay no attention to

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Speaker 1: what I said about about restricting the amount of toys

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Speaker 1: that come for Christmas. Instead, look over here, look over there,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the rock. So for me, I look at

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Speaker 1: the Alcatraz float and the and the movie business as

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Speaker 1: simply distraction items. And this is what he's quite good at, right,

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Speaker 1: this is what makes him. He's so wired for a

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Speaker 1: short attention span world. He has sort of built. I

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Speaker 1: always said this, He's been built this way his whole life.

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Speaker 1: Our media environment just caught up to his short attention span.

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Speaker 1: And now he is what his mainstream fits right into

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Speaker 1: Trump's mindset. So he sort of the moment the moment

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Speaker 1: grew to him. He didn't meet the moment the moment

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Speaker 1: met him, and here we are. So that's the way

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Speaker 1: I sort of compartmentalize those two. And look, this isn't

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Speaker 1: easy the decision. How do you cover an now Alcatraze.

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Speaker 1: It's a ridiculous story. It's too small. Anything on an

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Speaker 1: island is a big you know, going to cost a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. This is you know, I have no

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Speaker 1: doubt in his head. He's just excited by the idea

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Speaker 1: of America's worst criminals being, you know, just a few

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Speaker 1: miles off the coast of San Francisco, his favorite city,

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Speaker 1: wink wink. But I thought I would focus before my

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Speaker 1: guests on this episode's gonna be Jay Insley. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the next couple of days, I'm gonna have governors from

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Speaker 1: both sides of the Ay. I've got Jay Insley coming up,

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Speaker 1: got John Kasick coming up to sort of two guys

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Speaker 1: that have run for president, two guys that have were successful,

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Speaker 1: won a three term governor, won a two term governor.

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Speaker 1: You know there was it wasn't when I first started

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Speaker 1: covering politics, Washington State was a swing state. It has

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Speaker 1: moved sharply. A lot of the coast have moved sharply.

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Speaker 1: Back to nineteen ninety two, California was a swing state,

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Speaker 1: was considered a swing state. But what Jay Insley did

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Speaker 1: three terms in a row, I believe Washington State right

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Speaker 1: now has the longest streak of one part rule for

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Speaker 1: governor going He had certainly had a very consequential twelve years.

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Speaker 1: Ran for president on a single issue, climate change. It's

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Speaker 1: an interesting conversation and he certainly has his belief on

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Speaker 1: the role that the Democratic Party and government ought to

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Speaker 1: play in this issue of climate change. And he certainly

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Speaker 1: has some strong feelings about Donald Trump. I won't tease

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Speaker 1: the John Kasik interview. That'll be coming up later in

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Speaker 1: the week. But because I have a couple of governors

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Speaker 1: who are very camp you know, sort of political guys,

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Speaker 1: I thought this would be a good time to sort

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Speaker 1: of take the temperature of campaign twenty twenty six, if

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Speaker 1: you will. As you know, the last time we chatted,

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Speaker 1: I threw in a couple of other Democrats that had

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Speaker 1: a very strong first hundred days, in particular Abigail Spaanbergert,

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Speaker 1: who is now the clear favorite to be the next

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Speaker 1: governor of Virginia. And there's a variety of reasons for that.

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Speaker 1: One is I think she ideologically fits. She's in the

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Speaker 1: much closer to the center, which is I think in

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Speaker 1: these light blue and light red states is where the

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Speaker 1: Democrats have to be if they are going to have

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Speaker 1: a chance to successfully win statewide. Number one and number two,

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Speaker 1: government workers are just really ticked off at this administration.

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Speaker 1: Whenever government workers are fired up to vote, that's usually

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Speaker 1: bad news for Republicans in the state of Virginia, and

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Speaker 1: so that was obviously one of the reasons there. Look

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Speaker 1: right now in campaign twenty twenty six, the biggest news

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Speaker 1: over the last ninety six hours was another recruiting failure

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Speaker 1: for the Republicans when it came to some key Senate races,

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Speaker 1: specifically what's going on in Georgia where the governor there,

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Speaker 1: Brian Kemp, passed on a bid to take on incumbent

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator John Ossa. And I think Kemp's decision when

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Speaker 1: you couple it with the decision of now former governor

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Speaker 1: Chris Sununu in New Hampshire deciding an open seat, not

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Speaker 1: even having to challenge the sitting incumbent. This would be

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Speaker 1: an open seat race for him, he'd likely be the

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Speaker 1: front runner right away, but he decided not to. And

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Speaker 1: I think there's there's a couple of reasons. One is,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that I've experienced over the years.

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Speaker 1: Any of the senators that used to be governors, the

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Speaker 1: path from governor to senator. You talk to any former

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Speaker 1: governor who's serving in the Senate and you ask them

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Speaker 1: which job they like better. None of them hesitate. They

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Speaker 1: in fact now they hate the Senate. The way the

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Speaker 1: Senate works, it's dysfunctional. It's not bipartisan anymore. It's still

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Speaker 1: more bipartisan in the House, but it's less bipartisan than

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Speaker 1: it ever was. It's hard to get stuff done because

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Speaker 1: the party leadership runs the Senate. Now, committee chairs don't

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Speaker 1: have the power they used to have. The Senate is

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Speaker 1: a terrible is a terrible place to be compared to

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Speaker 1: what it was just twenty years ago, thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: It is not the same place. It is not a

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Speaker 1: deliberative body. They don't deliberate squat anymore. Yes, you might

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Speaker 1: occasionally get an interesting day long filibuster, it's about the

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Speaker 1: only time you see any deliberation. If there is any,

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Speaker 1: you don't see real debate. That would be kind of nice.

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Speaker 1: There was a time that actually happened in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: even in my lifetime. But this isn't This isn't the

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Speaker 1: way it is. So it is not surprising to me

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Speaker 1: if Brian Kemp calls up any former Senators that he

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Speaker 1: knows or current senators that he knows, what do you

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Speaker 1: think of the place, they are going to tell them

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Speaker 1: it stinks. Ask the current list of governors will complain

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Speaker 1: about the place. Mark Warner missus being governor, John Hickenlooper

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Speaker 1: missus being governor, Mike Bround's missus being governor. So and

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Speaker 1: none of those guys will tell you that the Senate

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Speaker 1: is a better job than that. So I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sit here and just simply say these are a

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Speaker 1: couple of Republican governors who assess the political landscape and

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Speaker 1: it's a bad year to run. Even if it were

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Speaker 1: a good year to run, the Senate doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a great place to be. But

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Speaker 1: the second thing that I is going on, here's the

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Speaker 1: political landscape. I mean, if you're you know, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: If recent history is any guide, twenty twenty six is

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Speaker 1: going to be advantage de rats. The question is how

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Speaker 1: big of an advantage is it a small advantage? You know,

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Speaker 1: the way it was in the in some races sort

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Speaker 1: of in twenty twenty two, it was sort of a

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Speaker 1: mixed bag with a slight advantage of the Republicans. They

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Speaker 1: always had a little more wind at the back. That's

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Speaker 1: why they won the won the House, but they couldn't

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Speaker 1: pull off the Senate, mostly due to bad nominees sort

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Speaker 1: of trumpet trumpet candidates that were just too trumpy when

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Speaker 1: Trump wasn't on the ballot. And that's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: With Trump not on the ballot, we've seen a couple

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Speaker 1: of midterms when that happens, Republican performance goes down, Democratic

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Speaker 1: performance seems to grow, So you have to assess the

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Speaker 1: situation that way, So you know it is it is

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden if you're a Republican challenger, but

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Speaker 1: you have to behave like the incumbent because it's really

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Speaker 1: an election about the party and the White House. So

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Speaker 1: I understand why it's not appealing to quote unquote be

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Speaker 1: a challenger but have to behave or get treated by

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Speaker 1: the by the electorate as an incumbent. And that's what

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Speaker 1: both Chris Nuknew and Brian him would be walking into there. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: the Senate map is not great. Not only do they

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Speaker 1: have to win four seats in order to take the Senate,

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Speaker 1: they have to defend four open seats plus the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Senate seat with John ast Off, which is going to

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Speaker 1: be noisy feat. So you're essentially looking at five races.

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Speaker 1: The four opens Michigan, New Hampshire, Minnesota, and Illinois. And look,

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Speaker 1: do I think Illinois is going to be that competitive

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Probably not, But it's

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Speaker 1: an open seat and it's going to be a really

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Speaker 1: crowded Democratic primary, and what if the Democrats nominate somebody

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Speaker 1: too far to the left that gives an opening to somebody,

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Speaker 1: It's unlikely, considering that MAGA seems to be the more

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Speaker 1: dominant force in Republican primaries. Rarely does do moderate Republicans

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Speaker 1: get through. I guess Glenn Younkins sort of kind of

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Speaker 1: was at least less MAGA E than most, which is

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Speaker 1: why he was able to, I think, perform, you know,

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Speaker 1: pull off the upset that he did in Virginia governor

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Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty one. So you look at that,

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Speaker 1: and that's a tough An area. And then you look

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Speaker 1: at the Republican seats in theory that are in the

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Speaker 1: competitive states. Right you have Maine and North Carolina are

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Speaker 1: really the only two Republican health seats that jump out

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Speaker 1: at you. And so then the question is what are

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Speaker 1: the ones that can put into play? Well, this is

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Speaker 1: where I think if you're the Democrats, I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's a plausible path yet to the majority. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing it has The path for the Democrats has

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Speaker 1: gotten better than it was one hundred days ago. Right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they've got these open seat problems, but they don't have

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Speaker 1: major challengers, good challengers and Republican candidates. I think they

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Speaker 1: didn't get the best candidate they could have gotten in

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Speaker 1: Michigan Senate. I think John James would have been better

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Speaker 1: than Mike Rodgers. There. They're not getting their strongest candidate.

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Speaker 1: In New Hampshire, They're not getting their strongest candidate in Georgia.

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Speaker 1: It is Minnesota is just a mess of a situation

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Speaker 1: for the Republican Party there. And then I, you know,

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Speaker 1: do I are there some modern Republicans you know, on

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Speaker 1: a previous on Earth too? Adam Kinsinger is running for

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Speaker 1: the US Senate in Illinois and would have a boxer's

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Speaker 1: chance in a off year like this. But Adam Kinsinger's

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Speaker 1: no Republican anymore. And I think we all know that

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Speaker 1: that ship has sailed a long time ago. You know,

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Speaker 1: I could have seen a Darren Lehood put that race

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Speaker 1: in play again in a non trumpy atmosphere, but I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine it. So you have that situation. Then you

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Speaker 1: have these primary challengers to sitting Republican incumbents in Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: in Texas and North Carolina. Well, I do think Texas

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Speaker 1: can get put into play if Ken Paxton knocks off

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Speaker 1: Cornan in the primary. I don't think Cornyn is beatable

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Speaker 1: in a general election at all by any Democrat. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of Democrats could be Ken Paxton. I

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Speaker 1: think he's that polarizing and I think he becomes that

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Speaker 1: problematic for the Republicans if he gets there. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know how corn beats him, I really don't, but

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Speaker 1: we'll see. And I'll tell you this, Cornyn will not

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Speaker 1: be out and he'll not be outworked. And I think,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways having he personally clearly doesn't like

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Speaker 1: Ken Paxton has no respect for his character, I imagine he's motivated.

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Speaker 1: You throw the fact that there are two appointed senators

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Speaker 1: having to seek election on their own for the first time,

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Speaker 1: one in Florida in the Rubio seat. Ashley Moody is

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Speaker 1: going to be sitting in that one. And then of

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Speaker 1: course you have the Ohio situation, which is a special

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Speaker 1: where we have John Houston filling that seat. And I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you it's Ohio. You know, if shared Brown runs again,

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Speaker 1: that puts potentially that seat in place. So again, what's

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Speaker 1: the path look like? They got to somehow win get

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Speaker 1: North carolinagain. They're going to need a governor to act

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Speaker 1: a former governor who want to run on the Democratic side,

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Speaker 1: Roy Cooper, so they have to win North Carolina, they'd

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Speaker 1: have to go win Maine. The governor there, Janet Mills,

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Speaker 1: is pondering that race against Susan Collins. I'm one of

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Speaker 1: those folks who thinks, you know, if you follow sort

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Speaker 1: of New England Republican politics closely, there was a time

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Speaker 1: when and the Chafees were impossible to beat in Rhode

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Speaker 1: Island until finally a mid term happened in twenty oh

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Speaker 1: six and Sheldon white House knocked off a Chafee and

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Speaker 1: it's the last time a Republican held a Senate seat

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Speaker 1: in Rhode Island. I have a feeling that could be

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Speaker 1: what happens to Susan Collins. She's still probably the only

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Speaker 1: Republican that can hold that seat, but eventually her party

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Speaker 1: ID may be the reason she loses. And I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you this, if Paula Page being on the ballot just

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Speaker 1: in one House race, I think that's actually a net

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Speaker 1: negative for the Republican ticket. He's polarizing, He will bring

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Speaker 1: out the wrong type of voter if you're a Republican.

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Speaker 1: I think this really hurts Susan Collins. With PAULA Page

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Speaker 1: sitting there and frankly, I'm I'm not one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: If you told me by the end of the summer

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Speaker 1: she's announced that she's not going to run again, it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't completely blow me away. I still think it's a

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Speaker 1: little early in the calendar and that's still possible. So again,

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Speaker 1: I got to find my math here, right. So they

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Speaker 1: need four seats. They have to win North Carolina, win Maine,

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Speaker 1: hold all their vulnerable seats, seats I told you about,

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Speaker 1: and I'm actually pretty confident, barring in debacle here, they

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Speaker 1: could do that. That's now more realistic than ever, especially

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Speaker 1: when they've had Sonunu and Kemp pass. So then you're

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Speaker 1: looking like, where do they find two more seats? Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's Texas. I'm skeptical on Florida, and I'm somewhat skeptical

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Speaker 1: about Ohio. I always say somewhat. I think if the

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Speaker 1: ticket is Ramaswami at the top for governor, I think

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Speaker 1: he's pretty polarizing and I think he's he's more like

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Speaker 1: Vance and he'll underperform an average Republican. Does he underperform

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Speaker 1: enough to bring down the ticket and to give a

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Speaker 1: shared Brown a shot? Maybe maybe we'll see, And I also,

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Speaker 1: But here's another sort of counter counterfactual there in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Shared Brown may be quite supportive of some of these

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Speaker 1: tariffs of Trump and can he message can Hess? Can

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Speaker 1: he somehow walk that line in Ohio? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So the thing that I would watch out for is,

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Speaker 1: I do think if Democrats want a path, they need

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Speaker 1: one more. They need to put at least one or

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Speaker 1: two more Senate seats in play. I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: you four states where I think they're going to attempt

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Speaker 1: to try to put two of these foreign play. Mississippi, Iowa, Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: and Kansas. The farm states. I've talked to you about

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Speaker 1: this before. Between the tariffs and the AID funding cut off,

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Speaker 1: farmers have been hit hard. Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa are

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Speaker 1: going to pay a price for the Trump economy that's

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Speaker 1: steeper than most other states. Does that harm incumbents there?

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Speaker 1: And I'll throw one other thing at you. There's been

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Speaker 1: interesting speculation that if win Donald Trump finally gives up

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Speaker 1: on Pete hag Set and the smart money in DC

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Speaker 1: is when, not if He's going to do it on

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Speaker 1: his timeline, not on the media's timeline. But we saw

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Speaker 1: it already with Mike Waltz. The backup candidates probably Jony

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Speaker 1: Ernst more than Tom Cotton. I know Cotton wants it.

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Speaker 1: I think Laura Lumer has Cotton, has got Cotton in

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Speaker 1: her crosshairs, and I think Cotton becomes an on starter

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Speaker 1: for some of MAGA world. That's not the case with

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Speaker 1: Joony Ernst, who sort of tries to find her way

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Speaker 1: a little bit closer, you know, a little more MAGA adjacent,

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Speaker 1: I think than Cotton is. And I think the there's

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Speaker 1: always a I think MAGA would love to be able

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Speaker 1: to say a Republican woman was the first woman head

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Speaker 1: of the Pentagon. So the point is, then, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, you have appointment. Why is this speculation up

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Speaker 1: and running? Will Zach Nunn, who is a Republican member

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Speaker 1: of Congress in the third district in Iowa. It is

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Speaker 1: the swingiest of districts, it is. Frankly, he's probably the

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Speaker 1: most vulnerable Republican in Iowa if he runs for reelection.

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Speaker 1: Decided not to run for the open governor's race in

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Speaker 1: that state, which a lot of people thought he would

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Speaker 1: jump into that and didn't say right away he's running

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Speaker 1: for reelection. So look, there's a lot of chatter here

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Speaker 1: about Ernest Pentagon. Maybe she's not running it. Who knows,

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Speaker 1: is none holding out for that. It's just something keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on. Look, it's not that long ago that

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Speaker 1: Iowa elected Democrats statewide, but you know, but in the

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Speaker 1: Trump era, it's been a lot tougher for them. But again,

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Speaker 1: without Trump on the ballot, these are places. So as

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Speaker 1: you can see here, I'm trying to create the best

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Speaker 1: possible path here I can come up with their Democrats,

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Speaker 1: and they're still probably a seat or too short, and

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Speaker 1: that's why we're not there yet. But if they get

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Speaker 1: competitive candidates in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Mississippi, if they can

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Speaker 1: put two of those four realistically in play, then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the path is there still a long shot.

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Speaker 1: You're still looking at the you know, it's about I

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Speaker 1: think the Indiana Pacers have a better shot at winning

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Speaker 1: the NBA title than the Democrats do of winning the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But I think the Indiana Pacers have a boxer's chance

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Speaker 1: to win the NBA title. So it's not out of

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Speaker 1: the realm, and it is slowly building. And you got

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Speaker 1: to remember what this political environment is about. This is

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Speaker 1: about Donald Trump these days and the House. Meanwhile, our

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Speaker 1: friends at Down Ballot, I love this the Down Ballot.

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Speaker 1: If you don't subscribe to it, you should. It's a

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Speaker 1: great newsletter. They have a great podcast. These are folks

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Speaker 1: that they are. They live and breathe data, They live

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Speaker 1: and brief politics. Yes they come from stage left, but

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Speaker 1: their reporting and data is just facts only. They did

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Speaker 1: the presidential vote by house district. They had the first

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Speaker 1: list of that out before anybody else. And what's fascinating

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Speaker 1: here is that you had one hundred and sixteen. Let

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Speaker 1: me get this right, make sure I have this right

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Speaker 1: here in my numbers. I went through and basically it's races.

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Speaker 1: Here's what it was, one hundred and sixteen congressional districts

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Speaker 1: where the presidentill vote was fifty five or lower. There

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Speaker 1: were seventy nine additional districts where the number was between

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Speaker 1: fifty six and fifty nine. Why do I point that out?

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Speaker 1: So out of foreigner in thirty five, right out of

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Speaker 1: foreigner in thirty five congressional districts less than two hundred,

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Speaker 1: Less than two hundred had a presidential vote of fifty

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Speaker 1: nine percent or less for either of the presidential candidate.

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Speaker 1: That is the most generous definition of competitive you can

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Speaker 1: come up with. So you have just under two hundred

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Speaker 1: districts that are at least going to be decided by

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Speaker 1: twenty by less than twenty points, the spread between DNR

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Speaker 1: will be by less than twenty points. There are more

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Speaker 1: Democratic seats than Republican seats on this list. Now there's

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Speaker 1: a reason for that. Democrats really the Democrat you know,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris really underperformed in the Blue states, and that

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Speaker 1: underperformance trickled down a lot of Democratic incumbents won by

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Speaker 1: their lowest vote margins that they've won in a long

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Speaker 1: time in places like Illinois, New Jersey, California. And so

428
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: while on paper it looks competitive, in theory, it's not

429
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: going to be as competitive because Donald Trump is going

430
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: to be on the ballot. But here's all you need

431
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: to know. There are forty two Republican districts where Donald

432
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: Trump got less than fifty five percent of the vote.

433
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: If you assume there's a three to four point bump

434
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: when Trump's on the ballot for Republicans in general, that

435
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: just shows you how easily that if there is a

436
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: dem way. First of all, the ceiling is going to

437
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: be no more than thirty to thirty five seats, Max,

438
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: and I think that's being generous. But the path is there,

439
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: and the path that winning the House for the Democrats

440
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: is quite clear. It's quite easy, and in fact, not

441
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: winning the House would be catastrophic for the party at

442
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: this point, barring some unforeseen event that rallies the troops.

443
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: So there's my early picture there. It's been a good

444
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: first hundred days for the Blue team when it comes

445
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: to preparing for twenty twenty six, even though they've had

446
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: more retirements, the lack of good recruiting on the Publican

447
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: side and the intra party fights that are already developing

448
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: on the Republican Senate side, I think, do put do

449
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: suddenly give the Democrats a glimmer of hope that they

450
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: can somehow put the Senate in plane in twenty twenty six.

451
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: Still a long shot, but it's like Indiana Pacers winning

452
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: the title long shot, all right. So with that, it's

453
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: a nice long open for you political junkies out there.

454
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this one. I will try to

455
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: do this every couple of weeks where we just go

456
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: deep into my brain when it comes to comes to

457
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: the Senate and gub and House races. But with that

458
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: staking a break, Governor j Insley on the other side,

459
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: you've only been retired now, I don't know. I guess

460
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: it's one hundred days. So right, what do we about

461
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: at one hundred and fifteen days? How does it feel?

462
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: Well, the last one hundred days of the Trump administration,

463
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: it actually feels like a thousand days. So I feel

464
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: like I've had a thousand days under my shirt.

465
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: Listen, but you must miss a lot of it. I mean,

466
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: you did it for three terms. Correct me if I'm wrong.

467
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was three terms and then seventeen years in

468
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: Congress and foreign state legislatures. So I had three good

469
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: decades of public service. But I must, I must push

470
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: back against Shusan and retired. I really do not want

471
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: to retire. I'm still in the game. I'm working with

472
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: Climate Power to let people know about the science of climate.

473
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: I'm working on some gun safety issue with the Alliance

474
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: for Gun Responsibility. I'm trying to stir the masses. I

475
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: just had a piece in the Guardian I printed saying

476
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: we got to wake up and smell the roses to

477
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: push back. So I really feel the same degree of

478
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: lust for the fight.

479
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me let me put it another way. Then,

480
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 1: do you feel in some ways being in office can

481
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: can constrain you. I'm not saying you were constrained in

482
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: what you said. You've got things you have to do.

483
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: You know, when you're a governor, there's stuff you have.

484
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: There's the have to dos and the want to dos,

485
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. You can't do. The want to

486
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: do is because of the have to dos. You know.

487
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: Well, I was a bit of a rebel as governor.

488
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 2: I kind of did what I wanted to do because

489
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 2: it was in the interest in Washingtonians. So I really

490
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: did not feel constrained. And I think, actually, to some

491
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 2: degree that was a little bit of the strength that

492
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: I brought to the table, because I was willing to

493
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: push boundaries and you know, on issues like health care

494
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: and climate change and a more progressive tax system. And

495
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: we had a lot of positive change in twelve years

496
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: because I didn't approach the job as feeling constrained. I

497
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: always felt it was my job to raise the state's

498
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: ambitions and not be constrained by forces of the status

499
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: quo or economic power. And so no, I'm mind constrained now.

500
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 2: I was fairly unconstrained then, and some people were not

501
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: happy with that by the way you call it.

502
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: You know, I will say this consequent whatever you You know,

503
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: if you're trying to make everybody happy, you're probably going

504
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: to make nobody happy. Right, There is this fine line.

505
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: I do believe in incrementalism personally, I do believe in

506
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: building coalitions from the from the middle out. But there

507
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: is something to be said. If you're trying to placate everybody,

508
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: you're actually not going to make any progress. There is

509
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: sometimes you've got to You've got to be willing. Look,

510
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: I'm going over here and these people are going to

511
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: be unhappy, but that's so be it.

512
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 2: Well. I do think executives have a couple of different approaches.

513
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: Some say, look, I'm just going to try to bank

514
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: as much political capital as I can and not ruffle

515
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: the waters as little as I can, and that's my

516
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: route to popularity. That was not my route. I always

517
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: felt that I wanted to push the envelope a positive change,

518
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: And when you mentioned incrementalism, I think it is interesting.

519
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: I think we did reach the right we did reach

520
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: the right pace of that. As evidence, we had three

521
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: of my major advances were challenged at the ballot box

522
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: last November with and with a referendum to repeal them.

523
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: Best climate change policies in the country are capital gains

524
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: tax and our first in the nation long term care plan,

525
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: which you were very proud of. Were actually the first

526
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: state that have long term care plan for people. We

527
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: know the silver tsunami is coming, and there was an

528
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: effort by the forces of reaction to repeal all of those,

529
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: and we won those going away, like sixty thirty eight,

530
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: how much healthier?

531
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: You know, I'm want to pause there a minute, because

532
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: I actually think that can make government in some ways

533
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: more trustworthy and healthier. Meaning, look, you did something that

534
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: some you know that that at first may have looked

535
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: like it was a fifty five to forty five decision, right,

536
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: getting the voters to affirm something the legislature the governor

537
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: did usually strengthens that law into sticking, right, Like you know,

538
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's a reason why in Washington, this Washington

539
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: the other Washington you always want a little bipartisanship for

540
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: big bills because you don't want to you know, you

541
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: don't want to give whiplash, you don't want to be

542
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: unbringing it every four years. In some ways, is it

543
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: better that you were challenged and that you wanted the

544
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: ballot box rather than never being challenged at all? With

545
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: those loss.

546
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: Certainly it is if you win. Sure, So if you win,

547
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: then it is much better. No, these were resounding victories,

548
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: you know, like our Climate Commitment Act has raised several

549
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: billion dollars, it restrains carbon and we won sixty two

550
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: to thirty eight. That was you know, that's a big margin.

551
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it puts anything over sixty these days is huge.

552
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: That's a big landslide. And so that made sure there

553
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: were no attacks in the legislature that lash question. Even

554
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 2: though there were fiscal strains on the state, there were

555
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: no attacks to siphon that money off or degrade the

556
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: revenue associated with it. Same with our long term care plans,

557
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: same with our capital gains tax. So yes, it did

558
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: solidify them, and you know it was I guess out

559
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: is you're right, you have to pick a pace of change. Fortunately,

560
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: I think we picked the right pace. We're with in

561
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: tune with the hearts of Washington State, and I hope

562
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: other states will follow us.

563
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: Well, you couldn't I want to go to that. You

564
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: had a constituency that wanted this change. I mean, in

565
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: some ways, you couldn't have forced this change if you

566
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: had a constituency that was going to fight you.

567
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: Of course not no, that's of course not. But you know,

568
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: people sometimes will not get involved in the charge unless

569
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: there is a bugle blown. And we blew the bugle

570
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: said here's a way to identify these issues. And I

571
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: think what we found if you look at the history

572
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: of last since I've been alive, these things are so

573
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: incredibly contentious until the day after they're resolved and people

574
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: start to see the benefits. So our Climate Commitment Act,

575
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: you know, it was very contentious when we passed it

576
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen twenty.

577
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: Tell me how it works. To explain people how works.

578
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: I mean, what it does. It stands up a provision

579
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: that will help meet our carbon reduction goals. We have

580
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: a goal of one hundred percent clean electricity that's in law,

581
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: and this creates a mechanism to assure that we reduce

582
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: carbon both in our utility grid and in our transportation

583
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: and in our industrial sector. So what it does is

584
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: it sets an absolute cap, an absolute limit on pollution

585
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: of these toxic materials in the state of Washington, and

586
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: it forces the polluting industries to purchase a credit against

587
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: that total amount, and we only sell enough credits to

588
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: go to that total amount, So they have to pay

589
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: to pollute. The first principle of it, the polluters have

590
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: to pay for their pollution. And that's a very important

591
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: concept because you know, when you go to the garbage dump,

592
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: you got to pay you fifteen bucks, twenty bucks to

593
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: dump your garbage for.

594
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: The right to do that. Yeah, well right to do

595
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: a lot of communities you've got to pay people to

596
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: just pick up your trash exactly.

597
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: Well, for too long though, we've allowed polluting industries to

598
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: treat the atmosphere like a big garbage dump for free.

599
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: Well guess what if it's for free, guess what people do?

600
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: They dump their garbage and our only atmosphere that is

601
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: now putting a blanket of carbon dioxide around the earth.

602
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: So let me take that money goes back to citizens.

603
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: What how do you prevent so you know, you have

604
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: a power grid surge and all of this, you know,

605
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, there's always these are the fears that get

606
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 1: thrown at people about these policies that if you put

607
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: this cap on carbon either one of two things going

608
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: to happen. The cost of energy is going to go

609
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: up because there's a limited amount of potential supply, or

610
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: there just won't be enough when there's a surge, whether

611
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: there's a heat wave or a cold wave or something

612
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: like this. Explain to me the provisions that I'm sure

613
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: are in this bill that you have that sort of

614
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: deal with sort of outsized events that that could cause

615
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: surges and cost or surges and power use.

616
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: Well, the best answer to those concerns is experience, and

617
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: our experience has been wholly positive in that regard. We

618
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: are building clean energy jobs like crazy in Washington State.

619
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: I've permitted the probably the biggest wind turbine farm in

620
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: the Western United States. I've permitted quite a number of

621
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 2: solar farms we're building. We have two of the most

622
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: advanced battery companies in the world today. Where are you

623
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: on nukes?

624
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: You know, it depends on the climate change activists you

625
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: talk to when it comes to nukes.

626
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, just talk about which nukes we're talking about, because

627
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: it's an important distinction. All nukes are not created equal.

628
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: Number one, I'm very excited about fusion energy. As you know,

629
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: fusion energy is not fission energy. It has essentially no

630
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: nuclear waste. It just used water. It's a limited supply

631
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: and one of the first fifty megawatt plants in the

632
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: world may start construction Washington State if things go well

633
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: next year. Now that's not a guarantee technology. There's still

634
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: a lot of work to be done on that. But

635
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: they're actually starting potentially construction next year. That is an

636
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: amazing achievement. If fusion pays off, pays off, that's like

637
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: the Holy grand Is. A lot of people have skepticism

638
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: about it, but I'll tell you there's some really good

639
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: investors who are investing in this, and I'm glad we're

640
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: moving forward on small modular reactors. The question is can

641
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: they be built to reduce the amount the risk of

642
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: any problem at at at a reasonable price. That's a

643
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: question that remains to be seen. We did have a

644
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: proposal here. It fell apart just because of cost, not

645
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: because it's nothing on it, but just the supply chain.

646
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: You can sort of prove safety and prove that there's

647
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: if you can improve.

648
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: Safety, if there's a and if we if if we

649
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: actually find a waste disposal side of the nation, which

650
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: we do not I yet so there's three things that

651
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: stand in the way of what we call SMRs from

652
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: moving forward. But I think we should be open to

653
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 2: these potentials of anything that's that's non carbon omitting. But

654
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: coming back to your central question, Look, the best argument

655
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: is success and that's what we're experiencing here with the

656
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: clean energy economy. And that's been so maddening about Trump

657
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: because he's trying to kill all of this economic growth

658
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: for low cost energy. That's the other thing that I

659
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: want to point out. This energy is the least expensive

660
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: in ninety percent of America now solar and wind and

661
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: advanced battery storage are less expensive than coal. But he

662
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,959
Speaker 2: wants to get rid of the less expensive and that's

663
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: why we've had some utility bills go up since he's

664
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 2: been president.

665
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't understand why people are against more options, like

666
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: why do we do want fewer options? And this is

667
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: something where this has been a head scratcher for me.

668
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: I thought of conservative government, at least when I grew up,

669
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: as having less involvement in picking winners and losers. And

670
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: this is a case where the government's coming in and saying, no,

671
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: we're going to impact the market. We're going to warp

672
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: the market, if you will, in favor of one part

673
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: of the industry over another. And of course that's been

674
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 1: the mind boggling thing to me, and I'm sure you've

675
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: probably thought about this too, which is, where are the

676
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: small government people? Where are the free marketeers, you know,

677
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: just sort of let let let the market decide on

678
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: these things. And they're not there, and I'm I'm wondering

679
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: where that constituency has gone.

680
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 2: Well. I have two theories about why Donald Trump wants

681
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: to kill clean energy jobs, you know, because he says

682
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: the wind term has caused cancer. We know they just

683
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: caused jobs. One, when he was four years old, he

684
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: was frightened by wind, a wind turbine that was going

685
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: around and he sees so now he's got a phobia.

686
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 2: Or Two he just didn't like him because they're taller

687
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: than he is. He's the only two thing that explains

688
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: his phobia of the cleanest, cheapest, cheapest, I want capital

689
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: ch cheapest electricity in America. And it also cuts against

690
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: his sort of vision of the dominant America. You know,

691
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: dominance is his number one verb. He worships the gods

692
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: of dominance, so he wants energy dominance. Well, if you

693
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: want to be energy dominant, why are you killing domestic

694
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: sources of energy? This is homegrown, all American energy, red, white,

695
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: and blue spinning wind turbines and solar panels in advanced electricity. Uh,

696
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: this is all American. So this cuts against virtually everything

697
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: he told citizens he wanted to do when he ran

698
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: for office. Hey, he said he wanted to reduce inflation.

699
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: These actions by him of killing these clean energy industries

700
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 2: is increasing inflation. Number two, he said he wanted to

701
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: be American, to be dominant. Well, he's actually shooting us

702
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 2: in the foot and giving these markets to China. And

703
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 2: that's not a winning message. So he's you know, I wouldn't.

704
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: You've asked to be judged against a rational position. I've

705
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 2: given up.

706
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: My uh at my meetings with might meet the press staff. Remember,

707
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: logic has been banned or banning logic because lot if

708
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: you if you look at this administration or you look

709
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: at his governance through a lot, there is none. I mean,

710
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: the only the only through line is his quote unquote gut.

711
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: But let me that gets me to to another point

712
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: and that you wrote in the Guardian in your op ed,

713
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: because it I've had this question the question you opened

714
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: your op ed with I've had with I've had from

715
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: a friend of mine that lives overseas, and he's essentially,

716
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: why aren't people in the streets that's been like the

717
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: probably of the non political people just sort of these

718
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: are not super highly charged, but people that live overseas

719
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: that pay attention obviously pay more attention than than the

720
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: average global citizen. And my explanation is exhaustion. I say,

721
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, the best explanation I have is is there

722
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: are some people who think, well, we tried that the

723
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: first time and he came back. Now I would argue, well,

724
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: and that's why he didn't win a second term, and

725
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: that's why all those things. But that is my best explanation. Exhaustion.

726
00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: What's your explanation?

727
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 2: A couple of things. Number One, we are the victim

728
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: of two hundred years plus of successful democracy except for

729
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: the Civil War in America. So we've been a victim

730
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: of being lucky never to experience what the continent of

731
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 2: Europe or South America or Asia has experienced.

732
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: So we don't imagine there there are some people that

733
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: believe our democracy is only about sixty years old, that

734
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't really until the Civil Rights Tech that everybody

735
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: got to participate.

736
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: You that's a good argument, and I will I will

737
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 2: not argue the point.

738
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: No I may, I hear you.

739
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but at least during those sixty years, we just can't.

740
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: This is the failure of imagination. It's very difficult even

741
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: today to wrap your heads around a guy. You know,

742
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: I grew up in the fifties and you know, say,

743
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: doing the Pledge of Allegiance every day and worshiping the president,

744
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: being united during the Cuban missile crisis, and you know,

745
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: I grew up with that all American conatitude. And to

746
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: think to have to imagine an American president facially ignoring

747
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court, it takes the powers of imagination

748
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: because we've never experienced that in the United States. Hungary

749
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: has experienced it, Germany has experienced it, Argentina has experienced

750
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: We never have. So I think part of it is

751
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: we don't we have to imagine this because we've never experienced.

752
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: But I do believe there's some exhaustion. But I'll tell you,

753
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: people are waking up. So I spoke to twenty thousand

754
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: people on a Sunday day in Seattle. A couple of

755
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: weekends ago. On my street corner up here in Bambridge Island.

756
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: Every day there's two dozen people standing out there and

757
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: they're not in the New York Times or on your show,

758
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 2: but they're just out there. People are waking up. I

759
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: wrote this piece in the Guardian you refer to about

760
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: a month ago, and there has been some marginal waking

761
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: up that's happening. So I'm very pleased by that because

762
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: people are starting to feel the ramifications, because he is

763
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: capable of totally ripping apart every law, on every constitutional

764
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: privilege if we don't get out there. So I'm glad.

765
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm glad that we are, and everybody's got a stake

766
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: in this. You know, there's gonna be report released tomorrow

767
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: a couple of days after this, by Climate Power. I

768
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 2: work with a group called.

769
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: So just letting people know we're taping on Tuesday, April

770
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, because I always like the time stamp. So

771
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: on April thirtieth.

772
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: Report, it's going to talk about the incredible tens of

773
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: thousands of jobs loss that we've already lost because of

774
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: his tackle on clean energy. I guess what I'm saying

775
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: is the assault on democracy has real term ramifications for

776
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: your economic conditions of your family. It's not just kind

777
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 2: of Ivory Tower constitutional law. It means you're going to

778
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 2: pay more for utility, your kid's gonna lose their jobs,

779
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: and your prices are going to go off. Those are

780
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: the real term ramifications of losing democracy, not just pointy

781
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: headed things for constitutional lawyers at the law schools.

782
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you put it those terms. I

783
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: have a friend of mine who is an Ivory Tower guy,

784
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: teaches it UMass Amherst has been paranoid about America becoming

785
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: hungry right until Liberation Day. And he goes, you know,

786
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: he goes, I'm now finally feeling better. And I said,

787
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: why is that you must not have any money invested

788
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: in the stock market. He goes, no, no, no, because

789
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: it's not that he goes, because I know how we

790
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: stop authoritarianism in this country make people poor again. Like

791
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: you know that the economy if he if he's mismanaging

792
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: the economy, he's not going to be able to get

793
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: away with everything else. I mean, that's sort of a

794
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: a dark way of trying to find optimism. But do

795
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: you do you concur with that conclusion that that once

796
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: people feel the economic impact, then suddenly they'll start, you know,

797
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: putting all this together.

798
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: So I'm going to answer that question with this caveat.

799
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: I want to make sure you don't report that I

800
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: am favoring a recession.

801
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: Okay, no, I I and that's that it's the worst

802
00:43:59,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: part of this right now.

803
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: But that's the worst partner. I mean, I hate.

804
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: Feeling you sit there. Look, I hope he's right. I

805
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: hope he can bring manufacturing and they'd be great to

806
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 1: see all these jobs and oh yes, but I don't

807
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: know if he understands how civilizations work, like this tube

808
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: paste is out of the tube. Globalization, I mean, this

809
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: has been the greatest eighty year run in the in

810
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: the in the in human history, more people brought out

811
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: of poverty around the globe. I mean, I sit here

812
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: and it's like, you're never putting this back. The small

813
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: business owner in Nigeria who can export to the United

814
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: States or the EU and make money is never going

815
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: to say, oh, I guess now I got to go

816
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: to economic nationalism and sell people here. That isn't how

817
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: it's going to work.

818
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: Well, an an answer to your question, if you look

819
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: at his you know absolutely creatoring approval numbers. The substantial

820
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: part of that is because people do know that terrorists

821
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: are going to increase their costs and within about five

822
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: to six weeks, I mean, they can't get stuff because

823
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: the shelves are going to be missing a lot of

824
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: stuff they've had. We already have twenty to thirty percent

825
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 2: reduction ships coming into Seattle Harbor.

826
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: For me, you're one of the what sized port are you, guys?

827
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: I mean you're one of the biggest.

828
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're maybe second on the Puget soun. I mean

829
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: we've already experienced twenty to thirty percent reduction already even

830
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: before the terrorists kick in. So Americans know they're going

831
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: to get hurt big time by this. He's totally failed

832
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: trying to tell them otherwise. And yes, that does weaken

833
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: his ability to tear up the US Constitution. There's no

834
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: question about it. It's not the preferred way to keep

835
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: our constitution intact. The preferred way is for people who

836
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: get out on the street in peaceful protests, and college

837
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: presidents saying I'm not going to deal with you, and

838
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: law firms saying I'll see you court and school district

839
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: administrators teaching their kids on this subject. That's what's going

840
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: to ultimately restrain restrain this situation.

841
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you bring up those three entities,

842
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: and I would throw in the heads of traditional media

843
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: companies who have not stood by the associated when it

844
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: was a latent First Amendment violation, right, and everybody is

845
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: using the same excuse. Well, you know it's not going

846
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: to mean anything. And you know the guy Paul Weiss said,

847
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: people were trying to poach our clients. You know, you

848
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 1: do have universities going, well, have you looked at them?

849
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: Don't look at us? It's this weird. It's like, now

850
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: we all, I frankly have a better understanding of how

851
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: things happened in Berlin and Munich in the thirties. Right,

852
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: it was fear and survival kick in, and sometimes people

853
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: get selfish, right, and it's like I've got to survive

854
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: and my surviv if I have to sacrifice you to survive,

855
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: at least I stay in the room and maybe I

856
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: can fix it later. I mean, that's a that's I

857
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: feel like what we're watching, at least in the legal community,

858
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: the media community, in the university community.

859
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: So this is a movie that has been played quite

860
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 2: a number of places around the world before. How this

861
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: movie turns out, we don't know yet, but it's a

862
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: movie that will turn out very badly if individual organizations

863
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: and individual people decide to feed the crocodile. Here's what

864
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 2: I mean. Winston Churchill, as fascism was raising in Germany,

865
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: and everybody's saying, well, he's okay, you know, we'll go

866
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: along with this guy with a mustache for a while.

867
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: His name I won't mention, And Churchill said, you know,

868
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: it's a really bad strategy to feed a crocodile in

869
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: the hopes that he will eat you last. And I

870
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: think that just defines why these decisions have been so

871
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: damaging to democracy and ultimately to these institutions, because I'll

872
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: tell you what, Blackmailer's extortionists never get done with the

873
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: first bite. They come back. You've already seen him coming

874
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: back and want more from Columbia and these law for him.

875
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: You're already seeing him coming back for that, and so

876
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: surrender is not an option here if we want to

877
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,959
Speaker 2: keep a democracy. And I think these you were starting again,

878
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 2: You're starting to see this tide turn a little bit.

879
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: You're starting to see people waking up in these c streets,

880
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: c suites. Now, if I may in the media, I

881
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't saw George Clooney's play that Good Luck about edwar Armurrell,

882
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: a proud Washington State University graduate by the way, who

883
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: is such a great friend of demogracy. Yeah, and the

884
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: whole play was about management of the media at that time,

885
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: CBS trying to lean on Edgar Murrell to lighten up

886
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 2: on his attacks on Joseph McCarthy. That day, same day,

887
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: in the same studio, the executive producer of sixty Minutes

888
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: had it quick because management was leaning on him, because

889
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: Trump was leaning on him. And I'm going, like, this

890
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: play is when we're living this play, it's a real thing.

891
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 2: It's not just on the stage. We're living it at

892
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: this moment. Well, yes, we hope the voices in the

893
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: media can do the same thing. We know some have

894
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: capitulated and some are standing up. But if there's ever

895
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 2: a moment to stand up, you know, and I've appealed.

896
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: I've tried to make this on a very personal basis.

897
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: So I've called my agents of the University of Washington

898
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 2: to talk to him about this subject, and they've expressed

899
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: some of the same concerns you have research dollars, he's

900
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: going to attack us, blah blah blah. And what I've

901
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: tried to say is that look, imagine you're the region

902
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: of the University of Heidelberg in May nineteen thirty three

903
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: and you're told by the new chancellor that you won't

904
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 2: you can no longer admit Jewish students, or he's going

905
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 2: to cut your research budget in half. And I've asked

906
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: these reagents, what would you do? You're being tested and

907
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 2: you get to decide what you really believe in. And

908
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: I've tried to appeal people on a personal level with

909
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: that type of issue because I do believe that's the

910
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: same scenario. I really do, because we have seen this happens.

911
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: Anating hypothetical question to ask.

912
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: It's an important one because I can recognize the fear

913
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: that people have. I get it, it's rational, it's human.

914
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: But things your treasure. Sometimes you've just got to stand

915
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: up for. And you know us my seat voting for

916
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: an assault weapon band, so you know I know what

917
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: it means to sacrifice.

918
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: Yes, well, you know I want to actually because you

919
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: know that's correct me. If I'm wrong, did you do

920
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 1: your NAFTA vote that year too, did you vote, Yeah,

921
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: and you voted.

922
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: For it, correct, Yes, I was a favorite NAFTA.

923
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: That's right, because you were part of it. And this

924
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: is what I want to get at trade, because this

925
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 1: is the uncomfortable truth about open markets and free trade.

926
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: Our country is so big and diverse that there are

927
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: regions that are saw immediate wins, and there are regions

928
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: that saw immediate losses, and we can talk about what

929
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: we could have done better to help in different regions.

930
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: But when I think about the trade situation and the

931
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: issue with tariffs, and you know, the Sun Belt has

932
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: become a financial juggernaut, right and a manufacturing juggernaut, and

933
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: that's due to arguably these open trade deals that have

934
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: allowed foreign manufacturers to build plants in the United States

935
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: and things like that. So when I think about the

936
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: Democratic Party's debate about sort of how to win back

937
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: working class voters, and certainly the issues in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa,

938
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm bringing up some former swing states and as well

939
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: as potential swing state you know where they lost. Washington gained,

940
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: Nevada gained, Texas gained, Arizona gained, right, the Sunbelt gain

941
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: how do you have that conversation with the American public. Right,

942
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: it was a net positive, NAFTA was a net positive,

943
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: but there were people that lost.

944
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 2: Well, first off, this is I'm glad we have this discussion,

945
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: but it needs to be nuanced because there's no black

946
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: or white.

947
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: Well, that's why you have to do it on a podcast.

948
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to say this. I couldn't do

949
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: this in our eight minute interviews and meet the press, governor, right,

950
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, because you can't have this and this is

951
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: the beauty of this format. But it's also the I

952
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: think why our political debate is such garbage.

953
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 2: Yes, well, the first thing I would say is, look,

954
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of arguments on this tariff, how it

955
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: should be, etc. And you can fashion all kinds argue

956
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 2: about every single tariff. But the thing you should not

957
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: have is a president who is grossly incompetent, who has

958
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: created so much uncertainty that he has even unintentionally started

959
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: trade wars that has now resulted. You want to talk

960
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 2: about manufacturing, a lot of these manufacturing companies are not

961
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 2: going to be able to do their job at all

962
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: because they're not going to be able to get the

963
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: rare earth they need from China, and the magnets of today,

964
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: the ninety percent of the rare earth comes from China

965
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: that's getting shut off. That's a consequence of these tariffs.

966
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 2: So when you have a grossly incompetent person who wants

967
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: to cause chaos and nobody knows what his real plan is,

968
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 2: and he has caused the damage to the image of

969
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 2: the United States because he's been a buffoon. You know,

970
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: he says, I'm going to do one hundred and forty

971
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: five percent tariff on China. He says, they're going to

972
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: back down, they're talking to me, They're going to surrender

973
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 2: the next day. Gee says, forget it. But I'm not even.

974
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: Taking your phone, Governor. I mean, he's handled his leverage.

975
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: Whatever leverage the United States did have, he handed it

976
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: away to everybody. So, I mean the guy in India,

977
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: India sitting there going, oh, how badly do you need

978
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: a trade deal?

979
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: Donald Trump? Oh you need to trail that bad He

980
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 3: has been both chaotic, uncertain. He has squandered our national

981
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: treasure of credibility because he's folded. He folded on this.

982
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 3: But now Trada won't let them even fold. They won't

983
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: take his.

984
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: Phone calls, right, they won't.

985
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: He can't even fold.

986
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 1: We'll get to cash out there, Donnie.

987
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 2: So I would love to think eventually China will show

988
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 2: a little mercy to him and eventually work something out.

989
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing I

990
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 2: ask you about trade is the way he's going about

991
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: it is so injuriously.

992
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: Get that, but balance out. Look, you were in Iowa,

993
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: you campaigned to Iowa. You know, all those towns used

994
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: to be may Tag, used to be this, used to

995
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: be that. You know, my dad's sister lived in Monroe, Michigan.

996
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: Used to be lazy Boy, used to be Monroe shock absorbers, right, right,

997
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: But Washington State's benefited quite a bit from increased exports

998
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: around the world, right, So you know, Look, part of

999
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: me thinks people should have just moved out of the

1000
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: Midwest more and we should probably have more domestic migration.

1001
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: But but set that aside. There's still a you know,

1002
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: that constituency wants one thing, and that's how you win

1003
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 1: presidential elections.

1004
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: So how do you want I'll tell you what my

1005
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 2: general thinking. I think generally tariffs are not productive for

1006
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: economic growth on either side of a border. They restrict

1007
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 2: people's ability to do business with one another. That's basically

1008
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 2: what the what they do. Generally speaking, I think economies

1009
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: grow when people can do what they do best. And

1010
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 2: if they group bananas and you know, and in Panama

1011
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 2: and we can't and we should be willing to buy

1012
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 2: bananas even though we have a trade deficit with them,

1013
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: and to make us pay more for bananas or restrict

1014
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 2: the ability of our ability to get bananas general doesn't

1015
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: make a lot of sense. So I'm in general, I

1016
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: don't think tariffs make a lot of sense, except they

1017
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: are useful obviously for national security purposes, so you can

1018
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: protect your national security assets. They are useful if you

1019
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: are being abused, for instance, with issues of intellectual property,

1020
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 2: and there has been some abuse of our intellectual property,

1021
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: so as a mechanism to force compliance within national standards,

1022
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: there's some reason in that regard and when we do

1023
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: do them. And if I was going to criticize NAFTA

1024
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: for a moment, I think the pace of change when

1025
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: you are having new technologies coming on, as with these

1026
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: huge new technological advances, we should pay more attention to

1027
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: the pace of change. And the pace of change was

1028
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: more disruptive than anyone would watch.

1029
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: How could you have slowed down? I mean, change is

1030
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: hard to you know. This is the problem with trying

1031
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,280
Speaker 1: to control a free market, right, that you can't always

1032
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: control your hockey stick moment.

1033
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 2: Right, you know, if you're going to run the tape backwards.

1034
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: I would have slowed down the rate of opening up

1035
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: some of these markets that happened in NAFTA because it

1036
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 2: was just so disruptive to a lot of states in

1037
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: the Midwest. So that would help, and to some degree

1038
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: that did improve in subsequent trade negotiations at subsequent presidents

1039
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: negotiated and now being ripped up. But the one thing

1040
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 2: I tell you, I'm for sure nance there's no nuance

1041
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: on this. The way this guy's going is creatoring the

1042
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: US economy. And it's interesting to me how even though

1043
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: tariffs and not everybody gonna get a major economics right.

1044
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: So I got around for SATAN for four years and

1045
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 2: argue this issue with professors one way or another. Not

1046
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: everybody had that privilege. Yet Americans have a deep understanding

1047
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 2: that this guy's going to cost him more money for

1048
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: everything they buy, practically bluting utility bills because he's refusing

1049
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 2: to let us have access to good, clean so learn

1050
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: win energy. So Americans get this and it you know,

1051
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 2: it's principal reason as numbers or are just creating.

1052
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: Let me talk about climate change. You made it the

1053
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: centerpiece of your presidential campaign. In some ways, you were

1054
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: the only one that really grounded your campaign in a

1055
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: substantive issue. And maybe that was given the moment we

1056
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: were living in with Trump and all that stuff that

1057
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: in some ways I found it noble, But maybe you

1058
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: were swimming upstream. And yet I would argue it probably

1059
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: gave you even more momentum to do some things in

1060
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: your state. But what did you learn from trying to

1061
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: from trying to create an urgency around this issue that

1062
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: government should be involved in the solution. What did you

1063
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: learn in your conversations with voters that says, you know,

1064
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: when you talk about these issues, talking about them this

1065
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: way not that way? Or what advice would you give

1066
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: to other politicians who want to get voters to understand

1067
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: the urgency better on their terms, not necessarily on my

1068
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: terms or your terms, but on on their terms. What

1069
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: what have you found to be most effective?

1070
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell you a story. It doesn't

1071
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: really match the script. I'm going to tell you a

1072
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: story because it's your Paul. You appreciate campaign stories, right.

1073
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: Story, and I love a good campaign story.

1074
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: You're pulling it. So I'll tell you part of my

1075
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 2: learning experience. So I went to Hamburg, Iowa. It is

1076
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: my very first event, and we were going to focus

1077
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 2: on climate change because there's been a.

1078
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: Right first event, you're like, first event.

1079
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: In Iowa, and because there's been a horrendous flood swept

1080
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: through town that it was a magnificently choreographed event. We

1081
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 2: had a guy who actually was out Gore's advisor, whose

1082
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: mother's house was destroyed in the flood. We could go

1083
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: through and we had you know, eight or nine cameras

1084
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: and the whole radio and everybody was there. It was

1085
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: a wonderful event. We could see where the water had

1086
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: come up halfway up the windowsills. There were all these

1087
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 2: silos that had collapsed in the flood. So all this

1088
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: week we're just laying out all over the ground. I mean,

1089
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 2: it was it was a very good graphic illustration and

1090
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: these and that place had never seen a flood before.

1091
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: It had been there for one hundred and fifty years,

1092
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: and that tout had never seen a flood before, so

1093
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 2: this was a perfect example of climate cause disasters that

1094
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 2: we are now are experiencing. And the thing was going well.

1095
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 2: I talked to a lot of people there. They all

1096
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 2: thought that we should do something about climate change, and

1097
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: it was really a great visit. And as I was

1098
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 2: going to get in the car, my young staff for

1099
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: who I didn't know very well, says, you got to

1100
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 2: come over here, guv, you got to meet Henry over

1101
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: here at the auto body shop. And I go, no, no,

1102
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 2: we're done. We got to here. He said, no, you

1103
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 2: have to come see Henry. Everybody knows Henry in town.

1104
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: I said, no, no, we're done. He says, look, you got

1105
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: to come. I said, okay. So we walk across town.

1106
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: We go on to Henry's shop, auto body shop, and

1107
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: there's NRA posters and Dixie flags and I said, no,

1108
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: this is not a place. I wanted to be.

1109
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: Sure I'm at the right spot for a Caucass stower. Huh,

1110
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: new caucas Captain.

1111
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you, Henry, but we have to be going.

1112
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 2: And the press noticed that I was a little reticent

1113
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: to talk to him. So the press came to him

1114
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: and said, Henry, what do you think of this climate

1115
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: change that the governors talk about. He says, Oh, that's

1116
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 2: a bunch of malarkey. That flood was just because the

1117
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: core of engineers found it up. And the first lesson

1118
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: I learned is this is a tough business that we're in.

1119
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: So that's a little campaign story. So here's what I've

1120
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: learned is that that you have to talk to people

1121
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: about this issue where they live. You can't lecture people obviously,

1122
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 2: you need to talk to them about where they live.

1123
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 2: You need to find out what they care about, what

1124
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: do you care about, what's important to you and your family,

1125
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 2: And that's the first part of any discussion. And then

1126
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: once you find that out, to talk to them about

1127
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: possibly they might be interested in this question. If it's

1128
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: a job for their kid coming out of college, we

1129
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: got good ways to say, hey, here's a good reason

1130
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 2: your child may have a good career. If it's your

1131
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 2: crop that you're trying to sell, well, we sure hope

1132
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 2: that your crop isn't one of those silos that is

1133
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: being washed away. If you have a child with asthma,

1134
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: you say, you know, you know it's making your child.

1135
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 2: Because we have an epidemic of asthma right now. So

1136
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 2: the first thing I've learned is to just meet people

1137
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: where they are and talk to them about their personal

1138
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: ambitions and fears, and that's the way to move forward. Well,

1139
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 2: I'll mentioned weather thing though, Okay, Americans still don't understand

1140
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: this phenomena. Only one out of five Americans know there's

1141
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 2: a scientific consensus about this, that we're wrapping the Earth

1142
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: in a blanket of carbon dioxide, and that there is

1143
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,439
Speaker 2: a scientific consensus about this. So there's still a lot

1144
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: of basic information that we need to share with Americans.

1145
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons I like the Climate Power

1146
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 2: Accountability Group holding Trump accountable so we can share of

1147
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 2: this scientific information with people.

1148
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've wondered about that I'd

1149
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: like to see more politicians lean into, particularly locally, is

1150
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: the adaptation issue, right which is, no matter what happens,

1151
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: rather than debate whose fault it is, we all have

1152
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: to live with this new environment. We all have to

1153
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: survive and hopefully thrive in it. Have you found if

1154
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: you start with sort of hey, are you are? Are

1155
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: you tired of the high cost of insurance for your

1156
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: home because you live this close to a body of water, Well,

1157
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: here's why it costs more to live this close to

1158
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: a body of water. I mean it, And this is

1159
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: why maybe we need to build a barrier or maybe

1160
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: we need to do this. Is is that a better

1161
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: way in with some people?

1162
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: You know?

1163
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: It's like my daughter did a she's a marine science major.

1164
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: She did an internship in Scambia County, which is in

1165
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: the Panandle, Florida. It's a pretty conservative area, and they

1166
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: told them never to use the frame climate change. Talk

1167
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: about fishing, talk about conservation, talk about making sure you

1168
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: have plenty of good places to fish. Why do people

1169
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: move to Florida, you know, for the outdoors figuring out

1170
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: how to speak essentially native languages no matter where you

1171
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: are in the country.

1172
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that kind of comes back to what I

1173
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: was saying, is you talk about the specific things in

1174
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 2: people's lives, including fish. We've had all the kilp disappeared.

1175
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: I live on Bamberg, John Washington. All the boat kelp

1176
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: have disappeared. We used to be ringed with boat kelp

1177
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 2: these forests, and that's what the salmon depend on. So

1178
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: if you like to go fishing, it's a big deal.

1179
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 2: So yes to that part of your question. But I haven't.

1180
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, the insurance thing is so profound,

1181
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't. You're not going to be able

1182
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 2: to get insurance.

1183
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: And the insurance industry is going to force force government's

1184
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: hand here, rightment.

1185
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 2: Governments choice. Government's going to have to step into the

1186
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 2: role of the insurance industry. It's going to be extremely costly.

1187
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: Your favorage. This is a you know, a nice place

1188
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: to live where you are. I'm going to guess that

1189
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: the insurance is higher than any property tax you pay.

1190
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 2: I can't tell you for sure that's true, but whatever

1191
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 2: it is, it's going to go up because we've had

1192
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 2: fires even in the western you know, we're the Evergreen State,

1193
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 2: have little rain here, but we're having fires on the

1194
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: western side of Washington State. Now I've had two whole

1195
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: towns burned down. Of course Trump denied this emergency relief

1196
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: from that. But coming back from your central question, I

1197
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 2: agree that you want to talk to people. If they're

1198
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 2: fishermen or fisher you talk about fish. If there's asthma

1199
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 2: in their family, you talk about asthma. You talk about

1200
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 2: those issues, not the global crisis. Right, It's not the

1201
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 2: planet this problem, it's your life. I haven't found though

1202
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: that that. You know, on occasion, you'll get a Republican

1203
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: say yes, I'm willing to finance a new dyke right

1204
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 2: to protect the town. You're getting some of that, but

1205
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 2: that is not translated to them saying and by the way,

1206
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 2: I want to do something about fossil fuels destroying and

1207
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 2: causing this problem in the first place. It's been so

1208
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: disappointing that we have not been able to find Republicans

1209
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 2: in office to be able to help us on this.

1210
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: And I keep hoping that's going to change, but it

1211
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: is not. The only Republicans really helping us the ones

1212
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: that are out of office. So right now we've got

1213
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 2: to replace them.

1214
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: Well, look what Lisa Murkowski said, there is a culture

1215
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: of fear among Republicans that speaking out. I mean, retribution

1216
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: is real.

1217
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 2: You could sense that in her tone of voice.

1218
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: I mean the people that got the people that got that.

1219
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: Laura Lumer went into his office. It was like anybody

1220
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: who had any who had worked with Mike Pompey or

1221
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: Tom Cotton were essentially escorted out of the Pentagon. Just

1222
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: what do they worked for? I mean, that's right out

1223
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: of I mean, come up with your hypothetical from Europe

1224
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties. That's right there, we're just doing

1225
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: a purge. You're associated with my political enemies. Get out

1226
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: of here.

1227
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree that there's pressure for potential primaries for

1228
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 2: Republican office holders. There's no question about this. But why

1229
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 2: the hell are you in office if you're not going

1230
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 2: to do some basic things. You know, probably thirty four

1231
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: percent of the Republicans in Congress, no climate change is

1232
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 2: potentially devastating to us. They know that, they don't publicly

1233
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 2: express it. They know it, but they won't lift a

1234
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: damn finger to help us out because they're afraid of that.

1235
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 2: I'm just going like, you don't deserve to be in office,

1236
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 2: and we're going to retire you from private life.

1237
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: But you know, this dawned on me. Actually, you did lose,

1238
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: And I wonder if losing made you a better representative

1239
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: later and a better governor later because you were willing

1240
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: you almost the fear of losing, well, you'd already experienced it.

1241
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: So what's the fear?

1242
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 2: Like?

1243
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: How much do you think that gave you more confidence

1244
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: in staking out a little more aggressive positions governing.

1245
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting question. I should think about that

1246
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 2: before I answer it, because it's a hell of a

1247
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: thing to lose. It's painful losing car in DC, and

1248
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 2: I'd staked everything I had to get elected and I

1249
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: wanted to upset. You know, It's very painful. But I

1250
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 2: would just tell you the one thing I can tell

1251
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: you for sure. I have never regretted my vote for

1252
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 2: the assault weapon bill for one second, even though I

1253
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 2: lost something that was very dear to me, because I

1254
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 2: just believe that public service is such a blessing that

1255
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 2: you have. It's bestowed on you by so many thousands

1256
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 2: of people. To not follow your convictions and the real

1257
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 2: best interests. Just you're abusing this great gift that is

1258
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: given to you. And when these Republicans know climate change,

1259
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 2: because these are smart people, right, you're dentists or doctor,

1260
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 2: they know this is eatness alive. They understand chemistry, they

1261
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 2: understand physics. But when you refuse to do that because

1262
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: you're afraid of Donald Trump, you're abusing your office. This

1263
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: is a great gift that has been given to you.

1264
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 2: And so I feel very strongly about this. As you

1265
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 2: can tell, when people are afraid of their own damn skins,

1266
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 2: it won't stand up for their constituents. There's too much

1267
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: of that going on. And I will just tell you,

1268
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 2: even though I lost, I never regret of it because

1269
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 2: I felt so passionately about my obligation of my constituents.

1270
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: No, it's just something that I've just sort of done

1271
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: on me. Think it here because you you did go

1272
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: places frankly that I think other statewide governors would have.

1273
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1274
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: Let me get my second term. Maybe I'll try it

1275
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: to my second term. Maybe I'll try to like I.

1276
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: You know you and I know plenty of those politicians

1277
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: you know on both sides of the aisle where there.

1278
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: You're right, it's the accumulation. But there's something about losing

1279
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: and then winning again that's gotta It's like bungee jumping

1280
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: the first time or skydiving the first time. If you

1281
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: didn't die, you're not afraid of it.

1282
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 2: Well, maybe that's it. And I appreciate you trying to

1283
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 2: think that. I'm you know, it was like mildly courageous,

1284
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 2: But I actually would think it's a different thing. Maybe

1285
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 2: I have more confidence in my citizens than some of

1286
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 2: the politicians. I just have more confidence that people will

1287
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 2: be able to understand the science of climate change, and

1288
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 2: they'd be willing to do modest things to improve the situation.

1289
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 2: That's why we passed this Climate I could havement Act.

1290
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 2: And it turns out my confidence and citizens was fulfilled

1291
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 2: because we won sixty two to thirty eight. So I

1292
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 2: think part of it is that that I'm willing to

1293
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 2: ask for more change because I trust people that they'll

1294
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 2: be able to figure it out, take some work that

1295
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 2: they get.

1296
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: All right, let me let you everybody wants a debate

1297
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: about what the Democratic Party should be doing right now?

1298
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: Way in for me, what would you? What would you be?

1299
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: Would you be looking for new leadership? Are you looking

1300
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: for new leadership? Are you looking for the current leadership

1301
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 1: to step up? What's your preference?

1302
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: Well, my working rule is everything everywhere, all the time.

1303
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: That's number one.

1304
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: And the leaders side for a movie.

1305
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be the leadership we need right now.

1306
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: We actually are finding and that's common ordinary citizens who

1307
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 2: are standing up, sometimes on a street corner, sometimes marching

1308
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 2: on a sidewalk, sometimes emailing the congress person, sometimes talking

1309
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 2: to their cranky uncle at dinner time. We have that

1310
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: leadership and it's a rising right now, big time. And

1311
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 2: so I'm pleased about the leadership. We're happy, which isn't

1312
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: necessary to have some sort of flag bearer because we're

1313
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: not going to have one for a year nominae.

1314
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: I mean that's just true both party.

1315
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 2: Everybody says, well, where is your leadership? I said, the

1316
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 2: leadership isn't our people, and they're standing up on their

1317
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 2: hind legs. And we have that. We have that leadership

1318
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 2: that we really need, and we got a great, deep bench.

1319
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a great nominee. We got a lot

1320
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 2: of people with a lot of talent. I love here

1321
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 2: and JB. Prisker the other day saying, you know we're

1322
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna go after him on the soapbox and

1323
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 2: beat him at the ballot box. I loved Core with

1324
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 2: what he did. I love Jen Mills standing up at

1325
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: the White House to this bully. So we got we

1326
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 2: had a lot of voices. I'm confident we're gonna have

1327
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 2: a good nominee because there's a lot of talent.

1328
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: What did you learn from Canada? I find it because

1329
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 1: here's something I've I took. I don't want to overlearn,

1330
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: but I'm intrigued about Mark Carney is kind of a technocrat, right.

1331
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: You know, this is a central banker. You know, he

1332
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: wouldn't be somebody even six months ago you would have

1333
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: designed in a lab to say this is the next

1334
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: leader of the Liberal Party of Canada. And you know,

1335
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: especially we see this picture of Trudeau, who was just

1336
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: a very charismatic figure. Certainly he had got polarizing at

1337
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: the end and unpopular. And you know, I'm I'm one

1338
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: of those people who believes that we the American voter

1339
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: usually picks a new president based on you know, that

1340
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: has the characteristic that the last president didn't have, whatever

1341
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: that is, you know, and from Obama to Trump, right

1342
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: that I would always say, it's a little bit of

1343
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 1: the showmanship. Right. They thought Obama was almost too nuanced.

1344
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 1: They want it, they wanted everything's black and white and

1345
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,759
Speaker 1: binary and a little bit of that. Obama was different

1346
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 1: from Bush. Bush was sort of black and white, good

1347
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: and evil. He was mister Gray, right. But Bush was

1348
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: a you know, he had a distinction with Clinton having

1349
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: to do with the personal character issues and people didn't

1350
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: like that, right, So hw Bush couldn't feel your pain,

1351
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton could. My point is is that we do

1352
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: seem to do that. So what do you imagine is

1353
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: the characteristic this country is going to want to have

1354
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: post Trump? What's the big one? Is it empathy? Is

1355
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: it technocratic expertise? What do you imagine three years from

1356
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: now that that sort of forget issues. What's that characteristic

1357
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,799
Speaker 1: that hey, we need this kind of president this time.

1358
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: First of all, I got a comment on Canada. This

1359
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 2: wasn't about Trudeau. It's all about Trump, right, one hundred days.

1360
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: Look, I have to say I've never seen somebody you

1361
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: can't say he's not had an impactful under days. No

1362
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: even to ownership of this economy politically, it's just stupid.

1363
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: He could have been blaming Biden for this economy for

1364
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: another six months, to be totally cynical about it. But

1365
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: he said no, no, no, I'm going to make it

1366
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 1: my economy.

1367
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 2: But you, David Brooks David Brooks were on a piece

1368
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 2: and said, well, you know, Trump has been brilliant in

1369
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 2: one way, and he's extremely energetic and active. And I'm

1370
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: going like, yeah, Charles Mansen was a brilliant, homicidal man

1371
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: maniac dude, David, But that's the way.

1372
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: But I'm on a boat, you know what I don't

1373
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: like on a boat. But it's extremely active because I'm

1374
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 1: probably yacking over the side.

1375
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 2: Sorry, anyway, I wasn't happy about David's article in that regard. Uh,

1376
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting. I really haven't given a huge

1377
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 2: amount of thought to that ideal candidate issue. I'm just

1378
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,719
Speaker 2: going to share with you. I'm just really optimistic about

1379
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 2: where my party is right now. I know that sounds

1380
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 2: totally there.

1381
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: I was just going to say that a lot of

1382
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: a lot of you're You're actually in the minority, I

1383
01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: think at your party.

1384
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 2: I'm optimistic. Number one, I know a lot of these

1385
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,560
Speaker 2: people that are going to be in the mix for

1386
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 2: our next candidate, and I related some of them, and

1387
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 2: I've debated them, I've worked with them as governors. Got

1388
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 2: I just there's a lot of talent there. So I'm

1389
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 2: really confident we're going to find the right candidate for

1390
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 2: whatever reason. And Number two, I do believe that our

1391
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four experience were largely one offs that will

1392
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 2: not be replicated. Inflation which we got hit with every

1393
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 2: country in the world and blamed for a president of

1394
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 2: extreme age, an eventual candidate only at eighty nine days

1395
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 2: to campaign, an immigration crisis that was not handled as

1396
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 2: well as it could have been. That's on us to

1397
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 2: some degree. Those were all one offs that I don't

1398
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: believe we're going to be replicated. So what happened in

1399
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 2: a narrow win in twenty twenty four, I don't believe,

1400
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 2: well any reason I believe is going to happen in

1401
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 2: the next go round. So I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about

1402
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty six cycle. I think there is a

1403
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 2: I'm kind of sarcastic on occasion, but I gave you

1404
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 2: some advice to my Republican colleagues in the House. Don't

1405
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 2: sign any long term leases, fellas, ladies, because there's fifty

1406
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 2: or sixty of you that are on in great, great

1407
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 2: danger right now. And I saw where change elections can

1408
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 2: be in nineteen ninety four. I've seen it, and there's

1409
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 2: every reason to believe that's what we're going to experience again.

1410
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: And something changes, because I kind of tell you the

1411
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 2: anger that's out there right now is so deep, so profound,

1412
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 2: and for so many different reasons that how they're going

1413
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 2: to pull out of this nosedive.

1414
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, before I let you go,

1415
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with fine. I think there's some structural updating.

1416
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: You know, in the same way we had an infrastructure

1417
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 1: build because we needed to update roads and bridges. I

1418
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: do think we have to update the democracy to meet

1419
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:53,759
Speaker 1: the needs of the twenty first century.

1420
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:55,719
Speaker 2: Paul Brother Right.

1421
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I'm I just did

1422
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 1: a Ted talk on this. I'm obsessed with this. You

1423
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: served to Congress. I'm curious what you think. I kind

1424
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: of think we need to uncap the House. I think

1425
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 1: the House there's too much distance between the House and

1426
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: the people. At eight hundred thousand per congressional district, do

1427
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: you know that that would that the fourteenth largest city

1428
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: in America is Austin, and it doesn't even have a

1429
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: population of eight hundred thousand. I don't think we should

1430
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: have four hundred and thirty five major cities as congressional districts,

1431
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 1: which is essentially what we've done. But I've had plenty

1432
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: of people say to me, Yeah, but why do I

1433
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: want twice as many members of Congress running around Washington?

1434
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: Why do I want to have that? Now? I think

1435
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: it would bring democracy a bit more local have people

1436
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: would be a little bit more connected. They might actually

1437
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: know their member of Congress or know somebody who knows them.

1438
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: You know, that's one thing. That's one thing I'm at.

1439
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:47,879
Speaker 1: You know, I'd like to get rid of partisan primaries.

1440
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: I like what you guys do in Washington State. I

1441
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: like with California. There's different ways to do it. I

1442
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: think it's a very I think you have more people

1443
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: participating in primaries because of the way you guys do it.

1444
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,560
Speaker 1: What are some structural changes you'd like to see.

1445
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting one. I'm so pleased that you

1446
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 2: want more members of Congress. That is a minority position.

1447
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 2: You love it.

1448
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: I know as a speech, I know it is, but

1449
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 1: I really believe it. I mean, it is what the

1450
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: founders intended. They wanted. They wanted a House of Representatives

1451
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 1: that was nurses, that was labor day laborers. They weren't

1452
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:22,600
Speaker 1: interested in it being now it's a club, it's a

1453
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 1: country club. You need ten million dollars in cash to

1454
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: get there, you know, either access to it or have

1455
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: it on your own. That's that's not the people's house.

1456
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 2: I think there's good reason to think that would be

1457
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 2: an improvement of the House Represents. But I believe there's

1458
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:37,719
Speaker 2: free or four things ahead of it in mine that are.

1459
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:39,479
Speaker 1: By the way. It would fix the electoral college too,

1460
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: without constitutional amendment. I mean that is one of my

1461
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: that is one of my benefits of this is that

1462
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: you would actually make it. It would make the electoral college.

1463
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 1: It would take Wyoming's advantage on voting for president and

1464
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: would cut it by two thirds. For what it's worth, I.

1465
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 2: Guess there is a percentage changed in that. So that's

1466
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 2: helpful six times to two and a half times. I

1467
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 2: like to get I'd like to get rid of the

1468
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 2: electoral college. I think that their point, obviously, if we

1469
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 2: could ever achieved that. I think Jerry Mannering is just

1470
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 2: such a moral blot on us and it has been

1471
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 2: such a such worse than when I started in politics.

1472
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 2: That Jerry Mannering has been so much more acute because

1473
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 2: of algorithms and computers have now allowed it to be

1474
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 2: diced and sliced like.

1475
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: Any too easy to find your voter, too easy.

1476
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 2: To find out. Now we're picking up there's only you know,

1477
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 2: twenty seats that are even contested in the United States,

1478
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 2: except in a big year like this, okay, which I

1479
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 2: believe where you might.

1480
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: Can open it up the aperture a little bit.

1481
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 2: Ye twenty twenty six. I think those are the two

1482
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 2: biggest things. The the what you're I'm trying to think

1483
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 2: what you've proposed, I don't think is would solve the

1484
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 2: one of the biggest problems as a structural problem, and

1485
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 2: I think you've talked about this before, is the self

1486
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 2: segregation of the constituent into polarized communities. So now there

1487
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 2: are half as many zip codes in America that have

1488
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 2: a fifty to fifty or purple split as there were

1489
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 2: when I started politics, half as many. So there's been

1490
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 2: a structural demographic shift that has made this business of

1491
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 2: democracy much more difficult because the people geographically are so segregated.

1492
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 1: Well, they've self sorted, you know, it's self sorted. In fact,

1493
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 1: I'm always hesitant to say you got to get rid

1494
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: of jerrymandering. I'm like, hang on, we might need a

1495
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: jerrymander competitive districts like that.

1496
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 2: You know that I can I can testify to you

1497
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 2: that it makes the business of consensus building so much

1498
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 2: more difficult. And if we can find it, I don't

1499
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 2: know what you can do about that, but that has

1500
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 2: been a real problem. Then we have the threats to voting,

1501
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 2: and Trump and the Republicans do want to restrict the vote,

1502
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 2: and they're taking so many actions to reduce and make

1503
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 2: it much more difficult to vote. There's something like nine

1504
01:19:55,960 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 2: million voters who don't have access. They're citizens, but they

1505
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 2: don't have access to the first piece of paper that

1506
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 2: they need, even though everybody knows they're citizens. So that's

1507
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 2: a threat as well to make it much more difficult.

1508
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:12,879
Speaker 2: And the fact that we have people standing in lines

1509
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 2: for hours to vote is insane. So we have all

1510
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 2: mail voting here. You do it from your kitchen table.

1511
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: You got two weeks to do it, and we got

1512
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 2: a high voter participation. I see these people stand in

1513
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: line in the South and there's one hundred and five

1514
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 2: degrees and they made it illegal to give them water.

1515
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 2: That's how much Republicans hate people when they vote. Okay,

1516
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 2: this is a threat, and going to all mail voter

1517
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,799
Speaker 2: really makes sense, not to big people suffer to vote.

1518
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 2: I think there's things we can do. You might have

1519
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:46,720
Speaker 2: two day voting periods, for instance, if you don't have

1520
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 2: no mail voting. So there's a lot of things we

1521
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: can do to make it easier to have access, but

1522
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 2: we need some work. But the first is they have

1523
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 2: the first the first is to expect the president to

1524
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,759
Speaker 2: follow the damn law. That's the first thing that we need.

1525
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 1: You know, we got It's a mighty fine constitution.

1526
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 2: You know.

1527
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: I sit here, I look at that thing, and it's like,

1528
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: we the founders had a lot of a lot of problems.

1529
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: We know this, but boy, it was a pretty good blueprint.

1530
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 1: All we have to do is follow it.

1531
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know the thing that this experiment democracy,

1532
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 2: it is a blessing and it is unique. It's a miracle.

1533
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 2: They pulled it off back in the eighteenth century, and

1534
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 2: here we are at risk in relatively you know, prosperous

1535
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 2: times and relatively peaceful times. To think of abandoning this

1536
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:41,559
Speaker 2: because of one narcissistic social path is disturbing. That's why

1537
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 2: I hope anybody who listening to the show will find

1538
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 2: a way to express themselves in.

1539
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,479
Speaker 1: This self sorted I think the only problem I fear

1540
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 1: is that, you know, the people listening to us already

1541
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 1: are aware. It's like, how do we inform those that

1542
01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: are busy lives, you know?

1543
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 2: And well, for another him, I'm very serious. When I

1544
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: talk to people, I encourage him to talk to their

1545
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 2: family first. Really, I'm very serious. About that, and we

1546
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 2: need to talk to each other about these things. You

1547
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:16,080
Speaker 2: don't have to be a senator to influence this debate.

1548
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: You can just do it in your own family. Great man,

1549
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 2: So that's where I encourage people to start. Then run

1550
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 2: for senator.

1551
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: All right, we'll go to Jay Insley's house and have

1552
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: a raucous Thanksgiving. Come on over, hey, it's great to

1553
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: talk with you. Great to catch up, sir.

1554
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 2: Thank you for caring about democracy.

1555
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: Keep talking, all right, and let's get those SuperSonics back

1556
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 1: in Seattle.

1557
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 2: I'm working on it.

1558
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: I know it's got to happen.

1559
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 2: It got it, It does. Okay, be lucky.

1560
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: You got it. Well. I hope you enjoyed that interview

1561
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:58,559
Speaker 1: with Jay Insley. Something tells me, did you get the

1562
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: impression he's still going to run for I did. I

1563
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know what that's. Something is, who knows. Maybe there's

1564
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 1: a senate race in his future. Maybe he's ready to

1565
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 1: be a cabinet secretary. If there's another administration that leans

1566
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: to the left, we shall see. But he didn't strike

1567
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 1: me as somebody that was that was retired, as you

1568
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 1: could tell in that conversation. All right, let me get

1569
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:20,639
Speaker 1: through a few ask Chucks.

1570
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:21,679
Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.

1571
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: All right, first one, I'm curious to get your take

1572
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: this one. Let me read the name here comes from

1573
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: a fellow, Todd Todd Corning, Todd Jay of Corning, New York, Corning,

1574
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 1: the home of corningwhere all that stuff. Here's his question.

1575
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your take on the impact that

1576
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: registered independence play in our current political divide. As a

1577
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 1: left of center pragmatist or incrementalists, take your pick. I

1578
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: switched from D to an I as a protest against

1579
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: what I saw as a left word lurch within the

1580
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. By the way, I think you're not alone.

1581
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: I think the increase of the last four years and

1582
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 1: the independent numbers come almost exclusively from stage left. The

1583
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: first in the first Trump term, it most exclusively came

1584
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 1: from stage why. But here's what he asked Lately, I'm

1585
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 1: wondering if this was a mistake. I suspect that many

1586
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: newly minted independents that switch parties for similar reasons, and

1587
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: that in states with close primaries, such as my home

1588
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: state of New York, switching parties has only made it

1589
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 1: more likely than an ideologically extreme candidate becomes the nominee.

1590
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 1: Ding Ding ding Ding. I'm wondering what you think of

1591
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 1: the best way forward would be both for me as

1592
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: a voter and our nation as a whole when it

1593
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: comes to nominating more moderate candidates who could better bridge

1594
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 1: our political chasm. By the way, love what you're doing

1595
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:31,719
Speaker 1: and I never miss an episode Keep it up. PS.

1596
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 1: I think Todd makes a better last name than a

1597
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: first name, appreciated as somebody who has lived with two

1598
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,080
Speaker 1: first names. Of course, we used to joke at NBC

1599
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: that we were the home of the two first name

1600
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 1: of the two first name personalities Chris Matthews, Brian Williams,

1601
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 1: Chuck Todd, David Gregory. Right, a bunch of us had

1602
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: first and last names that could be interchangeable. Look, this

1603
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:58,799
Speaker 1: is I think. I think partisan primaries are a virus

1604
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 1: in the country. I think partisan primaries are why we

1605
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 1: have too much polarization in Congress. Essentially, the average Democratic

1606
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: voter is much closer to the center than the average

1607
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,640
Speaker 1: Democratic elected official, and the average Republican voter is much

1608
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 1: closer to the center than the average Republican elected official.

1609
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 1: Why is that? Because our primary system essentially tries to

1610
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: keep you Todd Jay from actually voting. They don't want

1611
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 1: you voting, They want you independence voting right, they want

1612
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: hard partisans voting only. I think it's a huge problem.

1613
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm I think one of the bigger changes we need

1614
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,640
Speaker 1: to make is to open the voting to all. We

1615
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 1: need to have I'd like to have more predictable times

1616
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 1: when primaries are held. Look, state should be able to

1617
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: hold when they want to hold them. But maybe we

1618
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,559
Speaker 1: create sort of quarterly national primary days where if you're

1619
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 1: going to hold a primary in April, you're going to

1620
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 1: do it in this second Tuesday. If you're going to

1621
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: hold a primary in May, you'll do it in this

1622
01:25:55,160 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: second Tuesday of May. You know, some sort of predictability

1623
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: of schedules so people remember when they's voting, they're not shocked.

1624
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you've had such a mess over the last

1625
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 1: four years in New York State. You know, the year

1626
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 1: AOC won her primary, it was the first time that

1627
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,760
Speaker 1: they had ever held they separated the state primaries from

1628
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: the congressional primaries. There were actually two different primary days

1629
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:22,719
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, and so she won in a much

1630
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 1: much lower turnout situation. In fact, I don't know if

1631
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 1: she wins that primary. If AOC's ever in Congress had

1632
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:35,719
Speaker 1: New York held its primaries normally combined, where the state

1633
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 1: offices and the federal offices shared the same primary date.

1634
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 1: For some ludicrous reason that cycle, they did not. And

1635
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: you know it's I always say, butterfly effects of history, right,

1636
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most you know, dynamic and

1637
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: interesting and most consequential new members of the Democratic Party,

1638
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: one arguably thanks to a fluky decision to split the

1639
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 1: calendar in some weird way that New York did to

1640
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,639
Speaker 1: create the primary system that they created. So, look, you're

1641
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: not wrong. I think that the more people that vote

1642
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,679
Speaker 1: in primaries, the less ideological winners you will have, because

1643
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: most people are not ideologues. Most people are where you are.

1644
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: You may have a preference of left versus right. You

1645
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 1: may consider yourself more of a social liberal or a

1646
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: fiscal conservative, however you want to look at it, But

1647
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: you're somewhere between the thirty yard lines. There are not

1648
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,759
Speaker 1: many people between the zero and the thirty on the left,

1649
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: and ditto on the right. So you know, I do

1650
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 1: think we need to get rid of partisan primaries. I

1651
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,320
Speaker 1: think that is just a massive decision. And yes, I'm

1652
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 1: a strategic voter, I'm lucky. In the state of Virginia,

1653
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: there are no there is no party registration, and I

1654
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: get you know, I can't if both parties are holding

1655
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 1: a primary for the same election, I have to pick

1656
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: a side. But for the next election, I can pick

1657
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the other side. You don't ever have to. So I

1658
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: always vote in the most competitive primary, hard stop right.

1659
01:27:57,760 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: I want my vote to count, I want my vote

1660
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: to matter, and so I vote in primaries left and right,

1661
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: depending on what's the competitive primary in a given cycle,

1662
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: in a given year. So it's a I feel lucky

1663
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: that way. I would hate. I think New York State

1664
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 1: is the most undemocratic state, especially for supposed blue state.

1665
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:25,440
Speaker 1: The ridiculous rules that still take place, the petition signatures

1666
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: that are necessary to get on the ballot, it is.

1667
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: It is a bit arcane the way New York does

1668
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 1: holds its elections in general. So look, you're not wrong

1669
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 1: on that, but it's a system I think that that

1670
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 1: needs needs to be changed. And and I understand, and

1671
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: I think you're not wrong in how you're thinking that.

1672
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 1: If you want to say, it's like, for instance, living

1673
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 1: in the district, if you live in Washington, DC, whether

1674
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:55,719
Speaker 1: you're a Democrat or not. You almost have no choice.

1675
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: But the register is a Democrat if you want to

1676
01:28:57,280 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 1: have any say of who's going to hold office. That's

1677
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 1: true in Idaho. If you're a Republican, there's no use

1678
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 1: registering as a Democrat because all the primaries are going

1679
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,519
Speaker 1: to basically decide in the Republican primary. So I think

1680
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 1: you have to I do think sometimes as a voter

1681
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: you have to be strategic in your voter registration. Second

1682
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 1: question here, as an Arlingtonian, thank you for the local

1683
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 1: political shout out here. What do you think will be

1684
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: Governor jenkins legacy? He made such a splash when he

1685
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: was elected, but it's seeing he hasn't accomplished much in Richmond.

1686
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 1: His failure to bring a major sports franchise to Virginia

1687
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: exemplified his lack of understanding of local politics. Also, what

1688
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: is having the commanders moved back into DC mean for

1689
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: the city? Do you think Mayor Bowser and the DC

1690
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: City Council can pull it off? Go? Ohs Douglas. So

1691
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 1: he's a sneaky Marylander, you know, Douglas? Are you one

1692
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 1: of those guys that still tries to say oh's during

1693
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: the Star Spangled banner, you know, that was that was

1694
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,679
Speaker 1: a big When I first moved to DC, the only

1695
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 1: baseball team in the area was the Orioles. This was

1696
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,080
Speaker 1: in the nineties, and I remember the first time I

1697
01:29:56,080 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 1: heard that. You do the national anthem ins oh the Home,

1698
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: and whenever you hear the oh the Home and then

1699
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 1: it's Oh's, there would always be this big o's, just

1700
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: like in Atlanta. You know, at the Home of the Brave,

1701
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,640
Speaker 1: you're braves, you know, they get all excited. Well, the

1702
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 1: best thing that has happened about the downfall of the

1703
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: o's over the last twenty years and the rise of

1704
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: the Nationals in general, and sort of the dcification, the

1705
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 1: DMV really becoming its own identity. I go to DC

1706
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 1: sporting events now and I rarely hear somebody saying oh

1707
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: during the Star Spangle banner. Anyway, just thought i'd get

1708
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:31,839
Speaker 1: that rant out of the way. Look, I think Youngkin's

1709
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: legacy was winning. Was winning, right, That's that's the legacy

1710
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:41,600
Speaker 1: that he was able to show that Virginia still is

1711
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: a competitive state. If you're not a Maga Republican, but

1712
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: you're right. I think his his big goals, he's not

1713
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: been able to achieve it's some of it is you

1714
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 1: could say it's his fault. Some of it is the

1715
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 1: fault of the national atmosphere. I think he'd probably govern

1716
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: a bit more centrist if he didn't also have one

1717
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:04,680
Speaker 1: eye on running for president someday and still wants to

1718
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 1: be sort of Maga adjacent. He certainly was flirting with

1719
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: being Trump's running mate, so I think he kept a

1720
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:14,560
Speaker 1: bit more of a conservative. You know, it's funny. The

1721
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: last Republican governor before him was Bob McDonald, But Mob

1722
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:20,880
Speaker 1: McDonald wanted to be the running mate and acting more

1723
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 1: moderate was the way to do that, and I think

1724
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,200
Speaker 1: and he got well, he got a big transportation deal done,

1725
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: something that hadn't been done in a couple of decades.

1726
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: That was a big deal, So he had a legacy. Obviously,

1727
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 1: he ended up getting sort of a taint on him,

1728
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 1: having to do with some personal graft issues with some

1729
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 1: donors in the use of the governor's mansion. But he

1730
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:47,000
Speaker 1: did he did get something big done, but he was

1731
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: sort of incentivized to move to the middle a little bit.

1732
01:31:49,960 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 1: He ran more as a conservative and ended up governing

1733
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 1: as a middle Younkin ran more as a moderate and

1734
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: he ended up drifting a little bit more to the

1735
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: right because I think he's still hoping to have a

1736
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 1: future in the Republican Party. So I think his decision

1737
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:05,640
Speaker 1: to keep one eye on running for president someday in

1738
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's Republican Party has probably constrained him from I think,

1739
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 1: having a bigger legacy as a governor here. But hey,

1740
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: guess what, the election ain't over yet. I mean, his

1741
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 1: term isn't over yet. He still got one, arguably one

1742
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 1: more year to do that, all right, But thank you Douglas,

1743
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 1: and I'm rooting for the O's. But if I were you,

1744
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 1: are you mad at Rubinstein? My buddy Jason Lockham Forth,

1745
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 1: a man guy, is on fire when it comes to

1746
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: his anger at how the O's have not spent money

1747
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: on free agents and unpitching. But I digress. Last question

1748
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:46,599
Speaker 1: I will take for now is from Jack Vista. Jack

1749
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 1: a from Vista, California, and he writes, Hey, Chuck, despite

1750
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 1: not being a Catholic, I'm always fascinated by the conclave

1751
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 1: you and me both brother. Over the years, I've enjoyed

1752
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 1: your interviews with George Wigele. Whenever some big news out

1753
01:32:57,760 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 1: of the Vatican came and was wondering if you might

1754
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: have him on All Things Pope politics interview, whether it's

1755
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: before or after the White Smoke, I'd devour it. Jack.

1756
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: I am ashamed to admit that I hadn't thought about

1757
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 1: Wigel until you wrote. So. I want to give you

1758
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: all the credit in the world. George, if you're listening,

1759
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: we're coming at booking. I'd love to have you. He's right,

1760
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:22,960
Speaker 1: George has got a unique understanding of the politics of

1761
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:27,800
Speaker 1: the College of Cardinals. And let me just say here, Yes,

1762
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 1: I saw the movie Conclave, and I thought the ending

1763
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:33,839
Speaker 1: was stupid, and I'll just leave it at that. I'm sorry.

1764
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 1: I was so that movie was eighty percent awesome, and

1765
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: you know I did. I get what they were trying

1766
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:49,919
Speaker 1: to do, and they thought it was an interesting twist.

1767
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 1: It just left a weird taste in my mouth. I

1768
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: don't know how to put it. I don't want to

1769
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:57,800
Speaker 1: be a spoiler. I know a lot of people are

1770
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:01,480
Speaker 1: watching it, but it was so good and it captured

1771
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 1: what I look I still this is my dream is

1772
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:08,639
Speaker 1: to be, you know, to watch this happen, to watch

1773
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,240
Speaker 1: the politics of the College of Cardinals. I've always envisioned

1774
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:14,479
Speaker 1: it like the Iowa caucuses, where there's people like, we'll

1775
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:16,519
Speaker 1: go in certain groups and then they have these little

1776
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:19,720
Speaker 1: conversations and then they vote again. And here's this So

1777
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 1: I in my head, I've treated it sort of like

1778
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 1: the Vatican caucuses, you know, if you will. But here's

1779
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: something that I've learned from all of all of the

1780
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 1: experts I've spoken with over the years since I got

1781
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 1: to cover two conclaves as a professional journalist, is that

1782
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,720
Speaker 1: nobody knows anything. This is one of those things that

1783
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 1: the conclave works its will, and you know it is

1784
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, these are these are things that I feel like,

1785
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 1: forty years from now, we'll learn about what happened in

1786
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: this conclave that is about to begin any day now.

1787
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 1: So I look forward to Wigel. I'm sorry for those

1788
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:01,600
Speaker 1: of you that love the movie Conclave that I that

1789
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm giving it my you know, it's a two and

1790
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,440
Speaker 1: a half stars for me because I love the concept,

1791
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:13,640
Speaker 1: loved eighty percent of it. Thought the twist was worthless,

1792
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 1: didn't need it, wasn't necessary, could have done it one

1793
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 1: hundred other different ways. But the twist really sort of

1794
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: is like what really We're going there, and it's like Anyway, again,

1795
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be respectful of not being a spoiler

1796
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:33,679
Speaker 1: on this, but let's just say I was bummed because

1797
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: I thought it's like having this incredible flight and then

1798
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: you just sort of land without wheels and you just

1799
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 1: sort of crash land. And that felt like a movie

1800
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 1: that crash landed for me. All Right, I'm gonna take

1801
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 1: at least a twenty four hour break the next time

1802
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:52,879
Speaker 1: we update this pod. I hope you will have devoured

1803
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,600
Speaker 1: this episode and I'll have another one right behind it

1804
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: ready for you to listen to. I was always like,

1805
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 1: and subscribe, We appreciate it. Tell your friends, subscribe everywhere.

1806
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 1: Subscribe on Apple, Spotify podcasts, subscribe to YouTube channel. And

1807
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 1: coming soon, we'll have a couple of other announcements coming,

1808
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,680
Speaker 1: including a couple of other places where you'll be able

1809
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: to find content by yours truly with that until we

1810
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 1: upload a down