WEBVTT - Ep. 230: A Difficult Conversation 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.600 can't predict anything presented by on x Hunt creators are 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.160 the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.440 Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:37.360 where you stand with on x okay rue Map. You're 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.319 finally here at long last. Um, we're gonna get We're 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.479 gonna get to you big time. But we'd like to 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.680 often talk about just some juvenile stuff before we get rolling. Yeah, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.000 but just throwing any comments you got. But uh, I 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:55.560 wanted I need to catch him with the because there's 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:57.800 some things I haven't talked with you about, like for real, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:05.080 we haven't talked about um out filming doss Boat season 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.920 two dose boat. That's right, I wanted to call it 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.039 dose boat. I didn't come up with that. Did someone 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.680 shut you down? Well? I think Josh Pristine came up 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.800 with that because he's super good at name and stuff. Um, 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.600 he's good at making long sentences, but he's very good 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.840 at a very short things. So I thought it was 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.839 great that season two, like doss Boat would become dose Boat. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.160 But I've been educated on the fact that you can't 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.720 just name a show something new because people don't find it. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:41.200 So I'm thinking doss boat season two, dose boat. Um, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.560 but you were out filming that, you could say seasoned 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.160 dose maybe no, to keep it a little shorter. No, No, 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.840 you don't like that. Uh what how did it go? 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.240 I mean, were you excited about it? I was very excited? Uh? Yeah, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.640 I mean I maintained my excitement to um. But we 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.520 we had some tough fishing. We had we had fun 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.800 building adding the stuff to the boat. We did not 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.080 have tough fishing. And as I left, I told the 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.560 crew you will now have tough fishing, not because of you, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.080 because what you're going to do. Yeah, I don't know. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.760 I don't know why you cast that, you know, cloud 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.240 of pests pessimism, because we used to go up now 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.160 and then and think we're going to do that and 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:25.200 cash that hatch in the dark. Yeah, what we would 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:31.040 do is, uh, get swarmed by unbelievable amounts of biting insects. Yeah, 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.120 and then you'd hear fish now and then, and you 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.040 spend a lot of time trying in the dark to 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.720 get your back cast untangled from the alders. And see, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.600 I've got more skills than that, so I didn't have 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.320 that problem thrue. What I was there trying to do 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.880 is there's a bug called the Hexagenia and it's a 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.080 giant mayfly. It stands huge sons of bitches, almost two 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.080 inches on top of the water. I mean, it literally 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.040 looks like a little sailboat going down the water. And 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.280 they're very attracted to your garage door. The light. Yeah, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.400 if you have like a light your garage, you wake 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.720 up one summer day and all of a sudden, they're 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.320 all over your yard light and somehow stuck to your 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.600 garage door. I remember that from being a youngster there 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.680 when the hash on certain years when it can be 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.760 very very thick, and it will litill congrete under the lights, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.000 and I was told actually that they'll they'll end up 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.680 on the sidewalk underneath the lights because they think that's 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.040 the surface of the water because there's a bit of 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.840 reflection there. But they were saying, they were saying in 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.120 some of those northern Michigan towns, Yeah, so the light 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.560 is reflecting on the sidewalk right, that's where it's hitting. 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:36.880 And so even though the light might sort of attract them. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.040 It's the fact that they're seeing that sort of shiny 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:45.080 surface that's under the light in the darkness all around that. Yeah, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.840 even though they must have thought the water was vertical. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:58.840 Any tiny little continue they can be so thick that 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.640 they'll bring out the no plows to scoot off the 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.600 bugs off these sidewalks. Oh my god. Yeah, is it 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.680 stink too. I'm guessing there's got to be some sort 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.920 of It wasn't that thick when I was there, so 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.440 I didn't get to experience that. I was happy and 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.599 almost just stories of cars crashing, yeah, from the slickness. 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.120 Well that and I grew up there. I was there 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.359 twenty years. I never saw any of this ship. I 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.679 never saw anything. Things happened, though I grew up telling 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.960 people that they happen. You were doing other things after 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.160 ten pm. See, that's the thing. It only comes off 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.640 like like thirty minutes after dark. And in northern Michigan 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.040 at the end of June, I mean literally, you're out 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.479 there at ten thirty and you're like, I can still see, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.599 you know, twilight in the sky, and once it got 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.280 completely dark and this is it's like eleven and finally 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.240 you shine the light on the water and there you go. 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.119 You can they're starting to float down the river, and 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.800 in the right conditions it brings up a lot of 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:02.680 the fish and a lot of the big fish, and 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.880 some of these rivers, these fish can intake like I 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.720 forget what it is like fort of their annual you know, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.159 dietary intake annual calories in like a week or two 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.120 when they get to feed on these giant bucks, right, 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.680 so very important food source. And unfortunately for me, we 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.400 got hammered with like thirty six hours of rain and 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.680 the temperature went from like high of ninety to a 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.760 high of like fifty five and it just made the 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.080 trout sulk. They just went to the bottom and went 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.480 put a pout. They put a potty face on and 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.120 didn't want to do anything. So we were trying to everything. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.040 I mean, we were throwing you know, spinners and rappolas, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.200 and the only thing I didn't throw was a as 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.760 a nightcrawler. I probably should have. But the last day 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.479 we um changed gears and went out to a lake 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:52.120 where there where there was known to be some good 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:57.560 small amount fishing, and we caused some small amount. No. No, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.680 I was going full Matt Elliott. You were just trying 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:05.520 to cat fish. Uh the boat. So the boat for 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.320 the boat for dose boat is a boat that I 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.080 knew all through growing up. One of my fishing mentors 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.640 down the lake from me, a guy named John Gary 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.880 had he all. He bought this boat the year before 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.960 I was born. He bought in n and it still 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.919 has all the registration stickers on it going back to 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.880 seventy No, because like you buy him in blocks of years. 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.360 But anyways, the first one that counts for seventy three 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.560 and then paces all down the side of the boat 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.320 and then it's like in four year increments or however 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.520 they do the registration stickers, they're still all on there. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.160 When he died, we got his boat and it sat 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.559 in my mom's pole or outside my mom's pole, bron 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.159 for twenty years. And then we refurbished the boat and 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.960 that's our new fishing boat. It's a very seaworthy vessel. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.480 I mean, with that trans and redone and the new 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.600 engine on it. It was I was glad we had 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.760 to take the engine off because we were floating it 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.720 down the river, which is like, you know, part of 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.840 the fun of this show is that you know you're 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.479 gonna take a boat. It's not meant to go float 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.160 down the river. Take the engine off of it. And 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.760 then and then, because of the way the boats shaped 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:14.560 and the way you row a boat down a river, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.360 you go down backwards. You're still looking forwards, but the 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.440 boat itself is oriented, you know, backwards like pictures that 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.000 the current. You want to have the ability to not 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.520 go the speed of the current. Yeah, so the current 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.720 slipping under the curvature of the bow right. Um, it 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.320 was tricky to row. It's such a narrow beam on 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.320 that boat that it made the oars seem very heavy 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.560 because you had much more shaft at the oar outside 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.560 of the oar lock versus inside. We got it done, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.080 We figured it out. It was fun. I was just 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.000 hoping the whole time. I was thinking, like, is John 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.040 Gary looking down from the heavens thinking like this is 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.800 cool that you guys try to do. He was an 0:07:54.800 --> 0:08:00.280 eccentric dude, John Gary. Uh. He didn't understand why it's 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.880 had collars, and he would cut the collars off his 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.520 collared shirts instead of wearing a T shirt. He just 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.440 had all the shirts. He removed the college and I 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.040 don't know why it's there. I'm like I don't either, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:12.400 and so he would just cut it off. And one 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.920 time I was at a he um. He was old, 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.360 and I was at his house and he told me 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.680 he needed he wanted to just have a little bit 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.480 easier time with money, and he said, I will sell 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.560 you this house and everything in it, he said, right 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:33.480 down to my shoes, for seventy five dollars, the catch 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.920 being I live here till I die. And that would 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.320 have been a very very smart financial move for me 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.760 to have made, but I just dismissed it, and then 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:47.680 later realized what a missed that was. Yeah, I would 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.319 have made a lot of money. You probably can't buy 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.640 a garage on that lake for seventy five dollars anymore. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.680 I became residential. So what happened to the place? Oh, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.240 doctor bought it and fix it all up and changed 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.880 and tore down his fish, tore down his fish shed, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.520 let his boat launch go to ship. What's funny is 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.320 this guy? My brother is a doctor, but uh and 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.120 one day we met him, were walking down the beach 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.040 and my brother has nothing on but a pair of 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:19.960 cut off denim shorts and it just looks like, you know, something, 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.319 the cat dragged in and so we get to this 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.720 guy's place. An eccentric dude. He's an eccentric guy. He 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.600 doesn't play by the rules. Whatever their rules are, he doesn't. 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.160 He doesn't even know what they are. But we get 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.360 there and we meet this guy. It's like, oh, this 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.240 guy about John Gary's house. And so we're talking about 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.360 John and us growing up in and around the house. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.760 And the guy introduced himself as whatever, like doctor or 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:48.200 young you know, and my brother goes, well, I'm Dr Ronella, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:55.360 and the guy thought he was messing with it was funny. 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.760 All right, Rue, Um, we'll talk more about Dulse Bowl later. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.280 I don't want to waste all your time, I know 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.800 I'm here. First off, how do you have the name? 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.560 Are you eat? Well? It's actually short for Roulette, like 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.000 Russian roulette. Yeah, yeah, like literally on your mom and 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.280 dad and you Roulette totally uh. And there's no story. 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.880 I wish there was a story. Roulette, Yes, Roulette, like 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:24.920 the game I was taking Roulette, like in Russian Roulette. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.520 But there's also the game Roulette, both games which is 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:32.520 a financial version of Russia, both games of chance. But 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.079 no that I wish there was a story. But there 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.200 wasn't a story. I always asked my mom, like, so 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.240 why did you Because you know, when you're a kid, 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:39.880 no one, you know, people say, oh, that's such a 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.840 pretty name. But as I got older, people were like, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.680 so did your parents gamble a lot? Did they mean? 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.560 And and like I'd be in these business meetings and 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.360 like my name became the punchline. Why don't you switch 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.960 it back to roulette? Well, because I don't always want 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.880 to be a punch line, but like it's just it's 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.040 just it's a crazy ye you can see that you 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.640 get sick of. Even if I had a great story, 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.440 I would go for it. But because there's no story, 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.560 I just feel like want want, Like people are kind 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.040 of let down, you know, they anticipate that I'm gonna, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.280 you know, talk about some wild Vegas conception night, and 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.280 they didn't like win you in a game of Roulette? 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.120 You need to do? You need to do? And me 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.320 to find out it might be like, oh they're not 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:27.000 my parents. Yeah, well there there's definitely some narrative there, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.840 but um but yeah, I just you know, rue you know, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.320 came together for me around like my mid twenties, and 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.880 I just just feel really solid, like being like a 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.160 two syllable name route map, so it's great. Have you 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.240 ever met another roulette Roulette map that's even weirder, I 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.720 know because rue is like French street and then last 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.480 name map with two ps. So I have grown into 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.960 this street map navigational name. So it works branding a 0:11:54.960 --> 0:12:00.480 lot of symbolism there, definitely. Uh, I want to ask 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.240 you one more question for I asked my main questions 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.720 before I set the table here. Uh, your dad was 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.920 a cowboy. Yeah, he considered himself a cowboy for sure. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:14.120 I am definitely the first generation Californian. My dad came 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.000 from Texas, um. His dad was a cattle rancher, and 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.720 you know, it's something that I totally took for granted 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.360 and didn't really come to understand that there were so 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.199 many people like my dad who came from the South. 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.880 But the thing that was really unique about my dad 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.280 is that he brought along in a really active way 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.320 his love for the outdoors. And so even though you know, 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.160 my parents came to Oakland and as many African Americans 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.640 did between you know, the World War two through the 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.960 early seventies, he you know, he had the place in Oakland, 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.320 but he wanted to have a place where he could 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.679 pursue you know, his outdoor passions. So we had this 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.400 ranch with about fifteen acres when I was little, and 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.920 we had cows and we had pigs, and that was 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.680 that was you know, his that was his his place 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.480 where he got his life together. But I read somebody 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.800 you being embarrassed he had he had dead pigs hanging 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.319 over yeah, because you know, we'd bring that stuff back 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.320 to Oakland, you know, and like the garage would be open, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.719 you know, and there'd be you know, animals hanging and 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.439 asan uh in the garage and the bus would pass 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.839 by and I'd be mortified. But but yeah, I mean 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.240 it was really It's one of those things you just 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.000 don't realize how special it was to have had that 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.480 really unique background, um even you know for me in Oakland, UH, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.400 to be able to have those connection points both you know, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.840 in an urban setting, but also you know, to be 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.679 able to be in a wild place and in a 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:51.080 family that truly valued hunting and fishing and harvesting, um 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.640 all kinds of things. And it's been a big, wonderful 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.560 journey through my work to help bring those things back 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.680 to more people and to recreate those opportunities for more people, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.360 you know, so that we can you know, just help 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.760 people get their lives together and help people get more 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.520 connected to what's really real about nature. You know what 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:17.960 winds up making this relier? I said, like to set 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.200 the scene, there's a there's a part about this conversation 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:25.120 that makes me uncomfortable because we're gonna talk about like 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.680 we're gonna talk about race, okay, and we're talking about 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:33.320 Afro outdoors and so I'm sorry outdoor afterca people people 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.880 do that all the time too. Yeah, I apologize. People 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:46.200 call us man eater all the time. Uh. When growing up, okay, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.400 I grew up in a very like like strictly white 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.600 setting for the most part um, and the thing that 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.520 you were taught to strive for was like total color blindness. 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.960 That was sort of the north star. And it would 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.160 that you would never sit it would be like that. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.560 It would just be the thing you would never ever 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.240 do that you would sit with someone and say, um, 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.760 you're black, how does how do you feel about this? 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.680 That would be like ship. You would never do that, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.840 even even though, to be honest with you, the only 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.080 thing in your head is like super aware. Yeah, you're 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.760 thinking it. Oh, yeah, you're like, I'm talking to I'm 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.200 talking to a black woman. I don't want to mess 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.280 up like what, I don't know, she might have a 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.840 totally different worldview, but don't ask. Don't ask because they're 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.840 all color blind, right, And I'm still a little bit 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:35.800 stuck in that. Yeah, well you're gonna have to get 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.520 over it in this conversation because I want you to talk. 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.280 I want you to see me. You know, it's not complicated, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.160 like it's okay to have difference, It's okay. What do 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.320 you say here being like I'm talking to a white dude. No, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.600 I'm talking to somebody who loves the outdoors and I 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.320 want to connect on that. So how do we get there? 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.120 How do we get there to talk about? How do 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.160 we get there where it's let me cut set another 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.880 thing before I'm starting to with Fosburg the other day, 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.320 who I believe you've been on the phone with. He's 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.920 the presidency of TRCP. Yeah, and I was telling him, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.640 I'm like, I was giving him like what I recognized 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.240 as a problem because we were trying to have you 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.480 on a long time ago, but we got derailed by COVID, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.240 and I was like, man, I hope. I mean, you 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.040 knew that you were scheduled come out, but I'm like, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.600 I hope. I feel now that it's become like a 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.800 thing where it's like a forced conversation when it would 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.960 have before been like a more natural but now everybody's 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.400 hackles her up. And now you're like, like, by talking 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.400 about something, you sort of get crucified. You get crucified 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.720 to not talk. Some people are gonna be pissed that 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.080 you're not talking about race. You're gonna be pissed that 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.240 you are talking about race. Oh now you're interested in race? 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:43.960 And what was like, just be glad she's coming out. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.960 But but but let's let's really I mean, I think 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.520 it's important that people know our origin story here. You know, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.920 like I actually reached out to your team last fall, 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.840 and I reached out because I had seen your show 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.920 and actually I had heard about your podcast well before that. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.360 I was with some colleagues who I work with on 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.200 the board for the Wilderness Society, and you know, we're 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.840 just sitting at you know, um this conference and we're 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.760 talking about you know, podcasts that we all listened to. Inevitably, 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.560 we get to that conversation like what are you listening 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.080 to because it's a way of getting to know people. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.840 And someone told me that I should listen to Meat 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:25.399 Eater and it was with this disclaimer, right, but it 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.480 was like, with this disclaimer, it's like, yeah, but it's 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.600 really cool, Like it's not like just about you know, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.520 you know, just the stereotype of people who you know, 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.199 hunt and fish. And I'm like, well, look, you know, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.280 I'm I'm already with it, you know, so I'm I'm 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.560 definitely just interested just because I'm interested in that topic 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.720 and with my background. So I listened to your show 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.040 and then I saw that you had a show on Netflix, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.480 of course, and I watched that and I realized, like 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.400 we had so much common language and so much common language. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:03.240 That was really about how helping people understand their possibilities 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.560 of being in the world and understanding wildlife more and 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.320 living in harmony with it, but also as a way 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:14.480 to connect with other people across difference. And that resonated 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.840 so deeply with me that I thought about writing you 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.159 for a couple of weeks until I actually did, and 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.119 I just you know, I sent one of those you 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.639 know emails, you know, via your contact us link on 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.840 your I mean, you know it's one of the yeah, yeah, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:29.360 you just you just send it off into the night. 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.679 You know, you have no idea who's gonna read it. 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.439 If someone will read it, it gets it lands in 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.399 there amidst a lot of emails, photos of mangled fingers. Yeah, 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.920 all kinds of things. Because I'm the recipient of those 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.040 kinds of emails. Like people write us for all kinds 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.639 of reasons, to partner with us, to pour their souls 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.359 out to us, to you know, talk about race. All 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.639 of you know, we've been very fortunate. That may change 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.760 after this call or this interview. But but I think 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.040 that for some reason, and I have I have some 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.520 suspicions about what that reason is. Is because our Dafro 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.120 is so forward in its love story and its love 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.560 story about community, and its love story about nature. And 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.679 that's what I really got from your work, and that 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.159 connected deeply with I felt the values that we have 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.120 without dar Afro and that which I grew up with. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.400 So I reached out and a real human responded and said, Hey, 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.840 I'd love to talk to you on the phone and 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.119 hear more about what you're thinking. And I didn't have 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.679 a goal. I just wanted I just wanted to connect 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.760 and I wanted you to see that Hey, I see you, 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.639 and and uh, we'll see where the ripples go. And 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.480 that that began last fall, and then we had our 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:55.080 plans to do a turkey hunt together. Let's I forgot 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.040 about that and I were going to go turkey on 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.160 Yeah we should, And so we already had that plan 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.040 for April, and then the whole shelter in place happened 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.959 and then I got you know, everybody you know couldn't 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.080 do anything um during that time, and so this was 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.840 really our first opportunity UM, and we made I hate 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.040 to interrupt, but I'm going to, but it's actually gonna 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.159 work out in your favor because where I was planning 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.400 to take you, I didn't quite know the zone very 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.320 well and it took me quite a while to figure 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.719 it out. Now, we did end up killing a turkey 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.280 in the general area. Later, if you come back next year, 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.280 I've got a dial Okay, okay, I'll be ready. UM. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.560 So I think it's important that people know that that 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.679 this was one initiated by me to this had you know, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:46.320 a time frame that that began in advance of all 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:50.199 of the kind of ship show we're living through right now. Um, 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.560 Yet I'm grateful. And that's how I felt. As soon 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.040 as the pandemic hit, as soon as the whole sweep 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.159 of Black Lives Matter really kind of landed upon us 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.199 as a country, I just felt so grateful to be 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.000 doing work that feels in a lot of ways more 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.360 urgent than ever before. Um. When the sheltering place happened 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:15.000 and I saw people getting outside and getting into parks, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.400 I mean I saw kids on bicycles and on rollerblades, 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.440 and I saw families out in nature. I saw our 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.199 parks be overwhelmed because I think that people had this 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.639 this primal awareness that they needed to connect with nature 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.560 for their healing. In that moment. While you wouldn't be 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.520 able to go to a restaurant or a movie theater, 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.600 people knew, they knew they had nature. And so we 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.440 began just making sure that folks knew that we were 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:44.679 there for them, We were there for families, and we 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.879 were also there to help people recognize that nature is 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.320 not necessarily in a place where you go and drive to, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.919 but it's all around you. It's your window sill. Like 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.000 I was, just like you know, in the beginning of 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.320 the sheltering place. I looked outside and I saw my 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.480 lazy pit bull laying on the grass like she always does. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.800