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Speaker 1: This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on x Hunt creators are

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Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor

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Speaker 1: where you stand with on x okay rue Map. You're

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Speaker 1: finally here at long last. Um, we're gonna get We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to you big time. But we'd like to

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Speaker 1: often talk about just some juvenile stuff before we get rolling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but just throwing any comments you got. But uh, I

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Speaker 1: wanted I need to catch him with the because there's

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Speaker 1: some things I haven't talked with you about, like for real,

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Speaker 1: we haven't talked about um out filming doss Boat season

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Speaker 1: two dose boat. That's right, I wanted to call it

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Speaker 1: dose boat. I didn't come up with that. Did someone

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Speaker 1: shut you down? Well? I think Josh Pristine came up

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Speaker 1: with that because he's super good at name and stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's good at making long sentences, but he's very good

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Speaker 1: at a very short things. So I thought it was

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Speaker 1: great that season two, like doss Boat would become dose Boat.

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Speaker 1: But I've been educated on the fact that you can't

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Speaker 1: just name a show something new because people don't find it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking doss boat season two, dose boat. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you were out filming that, you could say seasoned

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Speaker 1: dose maybe no, to keep it a little shorter. No, No,

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Speaker 1: you don't like that. Uh what how did it go?

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Speaker 1: I mean, were you excited about it? I was very excited? Uh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I maintained my excitement to um. But we

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Speaker 1: we had some tough fishing. We had we had fun

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Speaker 1: building adding the stuff to the boat. We did not

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Speaker 1: have tough fishing. And as I left, I told the

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Speaker 1: crew you will now have tough fishing, not because of you,

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Speaker 1: because what you're going to do. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why you cast that, you know, cloud

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Speaker 1: of pests pessimism, because we used to go up now

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Speaker 1: and then and think we're going to do that and

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Speaker 1: cash that hatch in the dark. Yeah, what we would

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Speaker 1: do is, uh, get swarmed by unbelievable amounts of biting insects. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you'd hear fish now and then, and you

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time trying in the dark to

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Speaker 1: get your back cast untangled from the alders. And see,

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Speaker 1: I've got more skills than that, so I didn't have

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Speaker 1: that problem thrue. What I was there trying to do

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Speaker 1: is there's a bug called the Hexagenia and it's a

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Speaker 1: giant mayfly. It stands huge sons of bitches, almost two

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Speaker 1: inches on top of the water. I mean, it literally

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Speaker 1: looks like a little sailboat going down the water. And

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Speaker 1: they're very attracted to your garage door. The light. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you have like a light your garage, you wake

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Speaker 1: up one summer day and all of a sudden, they're

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Speaker 1: all over your yard light and somehow stuck to your

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Speaker 1: garage door. I remember that from being a youngster there

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Speaker 1: when the hash on certain years when it can be

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Speaker 1: very very thick, and it will litill congrete under the lights,

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Speaker 1: and I was told actually that they'll they'll end up

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Speaker 1: on the sidewalk underneath the lights because they think that's

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Speaker 1: the surface of the water because there's a bit of

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Speaker 1: reflection there. But they were saying, they were saying in

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Speaker 1: some of those northern Michigan towns, Yeah, so the light

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Speaker 1: is reflecting on the sidewalk right, that's where it's hitting.

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Speaker 1: And so even though the light might sort of attract them.

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Speaker 1: It's the fact that they're seeing that sort of shiny

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Speaker 1: surface that's under the light in the darkness all around that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even though they must have thought the water was vertical.

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Speaker 1: Any tiny little continue they can be so thick that

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Speaker 1: they'll bring out the no plows to scoot off the

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Speaker 1: bugs off these sidewalks. Oh my god. Yeah, is it

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Speaker 1: stink too. I'm guessing there's got to be some sort

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Speaker 1: of It wasn't that thick when I was there, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't get to experience that. I was happy and

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Speaker 1: almost just stories of cars crashing, yeah, from the slickness.

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Speaker 1: Well that and I grew up there. I was there

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Speaker 1: twenty years. I never saw any of this ship. I

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Speaker 1: never saw anything. Things happened, though I grew up telling

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Speaker 1: people that they happen. You were doing other things after

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Speaker 1: ten pm. See, that's the thing. It only comes off

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Speaker 1: like like thirty minutes after dark. And in northern Michigan

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Speaker 1: at the end of June, I mean literally, you're out

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Speaker 1: there at ten thirty and you're like, I can still see,

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Speaker 1: you know, twilight in the sky, and once it got

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Speaker 1: completely dark and this is it's like eleven and finally

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Speaker 1: you shine the light on the water and there you go.

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Speaker 1: You can they're starting to float down the river, and

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Speaker 1: in the right conditions it brings up a lot of

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Speaker 1: the fish and a lot of the big fish, and

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Speaker 1: some of these rivers, these fish can intake like I

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Speaker 1: forget what it is like fort of their annual you know,

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Speaker 1: dietary intake annual calories in like a week or two

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Speaker 1: when they get to feed on these giant bucks, right,

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Speaker 1: so very important food source. And unfortunately for me, we

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Speaker 1: got hammered with like thirty six hours of rain and

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Speaker 1: the temperature went from like high of ninety to a

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Speaker 1: high of like fifty five and it just made the

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Speaker 1: trout sulk. They just went to the bottom and went

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Speaker 1: put a pout. They put a potty face on and

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Speaker 1: didn't want to do anything. So we were trying to everything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were throwing you know, spinners and rappolas,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing I didn't throw was a as

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Speaker 1: a nightcrawler. I probably should have. But the last day

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Speaker 1: we um changed gears and went out to a lake

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Speaker 1: where there where there was known to be some good

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Speaker 1: small amount fishing, and we caused some small amount. No. No,

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Speaker 1: I was going full Matt Elliott. You were just trying

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Speaker 1: to cat fish. Uh the boat. So the boat for

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Speaker 1: the boat for dose boat is a boat that I

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Speaker 1: knew all through growing up. One of my fishing mentors

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Speaker 1: down the lake from me, a guy named John Gary

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Speaker 1: had he all. He bought this boat the year before

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Speaker 1: I was born. He bought in n and it still

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Speaker 1: has all the registration stickers on it going back to

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Speaker 1: seventy No, because like you buy him in blocks of years.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, the first one that counts for seventy three

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Speaker 1: and then paces all down the side of the boat

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Speaker 1: and then it's like in four year increments or however

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Speaker 1: they do the registration stickers, they're still all on there.

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Speaker 1: When he died, we got his boat and it sat

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Speaker 1: in my mom's pole or outside my mom's pole, bron

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Speaker 1: for twenty years. And then we refurbished the boat and

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Speaker 1: that's our new fishing boat. It's a very seaworthy vessel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, with that trans and redone and the new

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Speaker 1: engine on it. It was I was glad we had

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Speaker 1: to take the engine off because we were floating it

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Speaker 1: down the river, which is like, you know, part of

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Speaker 1: the fun of this show is that you know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna take a boat. It's not meant to go float

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Speaker 1: down the river. Take the engine off of it. And

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Speaker 1: then and then, because of the way the boats shaped

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Speaker 1: and the way you row a boat down a river,

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Speaker 1: you go down backwards. You're still looking forwards, but the

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Speaker 1: boat itself is oriented, you know, backwards like pictures that

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Speaker 1: the current. You want to have the ability to not

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Speaker 1: go the speed of the current. Yeah, so the current

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Speaker 1: slipping under the curvature of the bow right. Um, it

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Speaker 1: was tricky to row. It's such a narrow beam on

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Speaker 1: that boat that it made the oars seem very heavy

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Speaker 1: because you had much more shaft at the oar outside

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Speaker 1: of the oar lock versus inside. We got it done,

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Speaker 1: We figured it out. It was fun. I was just

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Speaker 1: hoping the whole time. I was thinking, like, is John

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Speaker 1: Gary looking down from the heavens thinking like this is

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Speaker 1: cool that you guys try to do. He was an

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Speaker 1: eccentric dude, John Gary. Uh. He didn't understand why it's

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Speaker 1: had collars, and he would cut the collars off his

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Speaker 1: collared shirts instead of wearing a T shirt. He just

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Speaker 1: had all the shirts. He removed the college and I

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Speaker 1: don't know why it's there. I'm like I don't either,

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Speaker 1: and so he would just cut it off. And one

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Speaker 1: time I was at a he um. He was old,

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Speaker 1: and I was at his house and he told me

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Speaker 1: he needed he wanted to just have a little bit

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Speaker 1: easier time with money, and he said, I will sell

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Speaker 1: you this house and everything in it, he said, right

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Speaker 1: down to my shoes, for seventy five dollars, the catch

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Speaker 1: being I live here till I die. And that would

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Speaker 1: have been a very very smart financial move for me

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Speaker 1: to have made, but I just dismissed it, and then

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Speaker 1: later realized what a missed that was. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: have made a lot of money. You probably can't buy

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Speaker 1: a garage on that lake for seventy five dollars anymore.

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Speaker 1: I became residential. So what happened to the place? Oh,

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Speaker 1: doctor bought it and fix it all up and changed

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Speaker 1: and tore down his fish, tore down his fish shed,

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Speaker 1: let his boat launch go to ship. What's funny is

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Speaker 1: this guy? My brother is a doctor, but uh and

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Speaker 1: one day we met him, were walking down the beach

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Speaker 1: and my brother has nothing on but a pair of

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Speaker 1: cut off denim shorts and it just looks like, you know, something,

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Speaker 1: the cat dragged in and so we get to this

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Speaker 1: guy's place. An eccentric dude. He's an eccentric guy. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't play by the rules. Whatever their rules are, he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't even know what they are. But we get

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Speaker 1: there and we meet this guy. It's like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: guy about John Gary's house. And so we're talking about

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Speaker 1: John and us growing up in and around the house.

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Speaker 1: And the guy introduced himself as whatever, like doctor or

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Speaker 1: young you know, and my brother goes, well, I'm Dr Ronella,

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Speaker 1: and the guy thought he was messing with it was funny.

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Speaker 1: All right, Rue, Um, we'll talk more about Dulse Bowl later.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to waste all your time, I know

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Speaker 1: I'm here. First off, how do you have the name?

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Speaker 1: Are you eat? Well? It's actually short for Roulette, like

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Speaker 1: Russian roulette. Yeah, yeah, like literally on your mom and

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Speaker 1: dad and you Roulette totally uh. And there's no story.

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Speaker 1: I wish there was a story. Roulette, Yes, Roulette, like

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Speaker 1: the game I was taking Roulette, like in Russian Roulette.

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Speaker 1: But there's also the game Roulette, both games which is

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Speaker 1: a financial version of Russia, both games of chance. But

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Speaker 1: no that I wish there was a story. But there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a story. I always asked my mom, like, so

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Speaker 1: why did you Because you know, when you're a kid,

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Speaker 1: no one, you know, people say, oh, that's such a

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Speaker 1: pretty name. But as I got older, people were like,

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Speaker 1: so did your parents gamble a lot? Did they mean?

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Speaker 1: And and like I'd be in these business meetings and

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Speaker 1: like my name became the punchline. Why don't you switch

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Speaker 1: it back to roulette? Well, because I don't always want

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Speaker 1: to be a punch line, but like it's just it's

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Speaker 1: just it's a crazy ye you can see that you

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Speaker 1: get sick of. Even if I had a great story,

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Speaker 1: I would go for it. But because there's no story,

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Speaker 1: I just feel like want want, Like people are kind

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Speaker 1: of let down, you know, they anticipate that I'm gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, talk about some wild Vegas conception night, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't like win you in a game of Roulette?

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Speaker 1: You need to do? You need to do? And me

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Speaker 1: to find out it might be like, oh they're not

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Speaker 1: my parents. Yeah, well there there's definitely some narrative there,

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Speaker 1: but um but yeah, I just you know, rue you know,

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Speaker 1: came together for me around like my mid twenties, and

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Speaker 1: I just just feel really solid, like being like a

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Speaker 1: two syllable name route map, so it's great. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever met another roulette Roulette map that's even weirder, I

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Speaker 1: know because rue is like French street and then last

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Speaker 1: name map with two ps. So I have grown into

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Speaker 1: this street map navigational name. So it works branding a

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Speaker 1: lot of symbolism there, definitely. Uh, I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you one more question for I asked my main questions

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Speaker 1: before I set the table here. Uh, your dad was

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Speaker 1: a cowboy. Yeah, he considered himself a cowboy for sure.

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Speaker 1: I am definitely the first generation Californian. My dad came

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Speaker 1: from Texas, um. His dad was a cattle rancher, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's something that I totally took for granted

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Speaker 1: and didn't really come to understand that there were so

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Speaker 1: many people like my dad who came from the South.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that was really unique about my dad

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Speaker 1: is that he brought along in a really active way

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Speaker 1: his love for the outdoors. And so even though you know,

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Speaker 1: my parents came to Oakland and as many African Americans

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Speaker 1: did between you know, the World War two through the

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Speaker 1: early seventies, he you know, he had the place in Oakland,

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Speaker 1: but he wanted to have a place where he could

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Speaker 1: pursue you know, his outdoor passions. So we had this

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Speaker 1: ranch with about fifteen acres when I was little, and

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Speaker 1: we had cows and we had pigs, and that was

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Speaker 1: that was you know, his that was his his place

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Speaker 1: where he got his life together. But I read somebody

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Speaker 1: you being embarrassed he had he had dead pigs hanging

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Speaker 1: over yeah, because you know, we'd bring that stuff back

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Speaker 1: to Oakland, you know, and like the garage would be open,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there'd be you know, animals hanging and

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Speaker 1: asan uh in the garage and the bus would pass

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Speaker 1: by and I'd be mortified. But but yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it was really It's one of those things you just

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Speaker 1: don't realize how special it was to have had that

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Speaker 1: really unique background, um even you know for me in Oakland, UH,

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Speaker 1: to be able to have those connection points both you know,

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Speaker 1: in an urban setting, but also you know, to be

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Speaker 1: able to be in a wild place and in a

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Speaker 1: family that truly valued hunting and fishing and harvesting, um

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things. And it's been a big, wonderful

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Speaker 1: journey through my work to help bring those things back

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Speaker 1: to more people and to recreate those opportunities for more people,

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Speaker 1: you know, so that we can you know, just help

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Speaker 1: people get their lives together and help people get more

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Speaker 1: connected to what's really real about nature. You know what

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Speaker 1: winds up making this relier? I said, like to set

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Speaker 1: the scene, there's a there's a part about this conversation

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Speaker 1: that makes me uncomfortable because we're gonna talk about like

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about race, okay, and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: Afro outdoors and so I'm sorry outdoor afterca people people

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Speaker 1: do that all the time too. Yeah, I apologize. People

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Speaker 1: call us man eater all the time. Uh. When growing up, okay,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a very like like strictly white

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Speaker 1: setting for the most part um, and the thing that

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Speaker 1: you were taught to strive for was like total color blindness.

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Speaker 1: That was sort of the north star. And it would

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Speaker 1: that you would never sit it would be like that.

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Speaker 1: It would just be the thing you would never ever

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Speaker 1: do that you would sit with someone and say, um,

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Speaker 1: you're black, how does how do you feel about this?

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Speaker 1: That would be like ship. You would never do that,

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Speaker 1: even even though, to be honest with you, the only

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Speaker 1: thing in your head is like super aware. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: thinking it. Oh, yeah, you're like, I'm talking to I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to a black woman. I don't want to mess

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Speaker 1: up like what, I don't know, she might have a

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Speaker 1: totally different worldview, but don't ask. Don't ask because they're

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Speaker 1: all color blind, right, And I'm still a little bit

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Speaker 1: stuck in that. Yeah, well you're gonna have to get

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Speaker 1: over it in this conversation because I want you to talk.

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Speaker 1: I want you to see me. You know, it's not complicated,

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Speaker 1: like it's okay to have difference, It's okay. What do

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Speaker 1: you say here being like I'm talking to a white dude. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to somebody who loves the outdoors and I

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Speaker 1: want to connect on that. So how do we get there?

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Speaker 1: How do we get there to talk about? How do

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Speaker 1: we get there where it's let me cut set another

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Speaker 1: thing before I'm starting to with Fosburg the other day,

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Speaker 1: who I believe you've been on the phone with. He's

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Speaker 1: the presidency of TRCP. Yeah, and I was telling him,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I was giving him like what I recognized

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Speaker 1: as a problem because we were trying to have you

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Speaker 1: on a long time ago, but we got derailed by COVID,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, man, I hope. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: knew that you were scheduled come out, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I hope. I feel now that it's become like a

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Speaker 1: thing where it's like a forced conversation when it would

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Speaker 1: have before been like a more natural but now everybody's

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Speaker 1: hackles her up. And now you're like, like, by talking

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Speaker 1: about something, you sort of get crucified. You get crucified

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Speaker 1: to not talk. Some people are gonna be pissed that

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Speaker 1: you're not talking about race. You're gonna be pissed that

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Speaker 1: you are talking about race. Oh now you're interested in race?

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Speaker 1: And what was like, just be glad she's coming out.

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Speaker 1: But but but let's let's really I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's important that people know our origin story here. You know,

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Speaker 1: like I actually reached out to your team last fall,

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Speaker 1: and I reached out because I had seen your show

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Speaker 1: and actually I had heard about your podcast well before that.

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Speaker 1: I was with some colleagues who I work with on

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Speaker 1: the board for the Wilderness Society, and you know, we're

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Speaker 1: just sitting at you know, um this conference and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about you know, podcasts that we all listened to. Inevitably,

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Speaker 1: we get to that conversation like what are you listening

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Speaker 1: to because it's a way of getting to know people.

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Speaker 1: And someone told me that I should listen to Meat

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Speaker 1: Eater and it was with this disclaimer, right, but it

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Speaker 1: was like, with this disclaimer, it's like, yeah, but it's

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Speaker 1: really cool, Like it's not like just about you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the stereotype of people who you know,

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Speaker 1: hunt and fish. And I'm like, well, look, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm already with it, you know, so I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely just interested just because I'm interested in that topic

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Speaker 1: and with my background. So I listened to your show

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Speaker 1: and then I saw that you had a show on Netflix,

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Speaker 1: of course, and I watched that and I realized, like

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Speaker 1: we had so much common language and so much common language.

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Speaker 1: That was really about how helping people understand their possibilities

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Speaker 1: of being in the world and understanding wildlife more and

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Speaker 1: living in harmony with it, but also as a way

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Speaker 1: to connect with other people across difference. And that resonated

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Speaker 1: so deeply with me that I thought about writing you

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Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks until I actually did, and

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Speaker 1: I just you know, I sent one of those you

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Speaker 1: know emails, you know, via your contact us link on

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Speaker 1: your I mean, you know it's one of the yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you just you just send it off into the night.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have no idea who's gonna read it.

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Speaker 1: If someone will read it, it gets it lands in

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Speaker 1: there amidst a lot of emails, photos of mangled fingers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things. Because I'm the recipient of those

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Speaker 1: kinds of emails. Like people write us for all kinds

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Speaker 1: of reasons, to partner with us, to pour their souls

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Speaker 1: out to us, to you know, talk about race. All

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Speaker 1: of you know, we've been very fortunate. That may change

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Speaker 1: after this call or this interview. But but I think

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Speaker 1: that for some reason, and I have I have some

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Speaker 1: suspicions about what that reason is. Is because our Dafro

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Speaker 1: is so forward in its love story and its love

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Speaker 1: story about community, and its love story about nature. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I really got from your work, and that

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Speaker 1: connected deeply with I felt the values that we have

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Speaker 1: without dar Afro and that which I grew up with.

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Speaker 1: So I reached out and a real human responded and said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to talk to you on the phone and

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Speaker 1: hear more about what you're thinking. And I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a goal. I just wanted I just wanted to connect

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Speaker 1: and I wanted you to see that Hey, I see you,

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Speaker 1: and and uh, we'll see where the ripples go. And

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Speaker 1: that that began last fall, and then we had our

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Speaker 1: plans to do a turkey hunt together. Let's I forgot

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Speaker 1: about that and I were going to go turkey on

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Speaker 1: Yeah we should, And so we already had that plan

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Speaker 1: for April, and then the whole shelter in place happened

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Speaker 1: and then I got you know, everybody you know couldn't

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Speaker 1: do anything um during that time, and so this was

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Speaker 1: really our first opportunity UM, and we made I hate

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Speaker 1: to interrupt, but I'm going to, but it's actually gonna

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Speaker 1: work out in your favor because where I was planning

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Speaker 1: to take you, I didn't quite know the zone very

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Speaker 1: well and it took me quite a while to figure

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Speaker 1: it out. Now, we did end up killing a turkey

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Speaker 1: in the general area. Later, if you come back next year,

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Speaker 1: I've got a dial Okay, okay, I'll be ready. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's important that people know that that

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Speaker 1: this was one initiated by me to this had you know,

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Speaker 1: a time frame that that began in advance of all

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Speaker 1: of the kind of ship show we're living through right now. Um,

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Speaker 1: Yet I'm grateful. And that's how I felt. As soon

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Speaker 1: as the pandemic hit, as soon as the whole sweep

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Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter really kind of landed upon us

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Speaker 1: as a country, I just felt so grateful to be

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Speaker 1: doing work that feels in a lot of ways more

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Speaker 1: urgent than ever before. Um. When the sheltering place happened

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Speaker 1: and I saw people getting outside and getting into parks,

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Speaker 1: I mean I saw kids on bicycles and on rollerblades,

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Speaker 1: and I saw families out in nature. I saw our

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Speaker 1: parks be overwhelmed because I think that people had this

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Speaker 1: this primal awareness that they needed to connect with nature

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Speaker 1: for their healing. In that moment. While you wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: able to go to a restaurant or a movie theater,

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Speaker 1: people knew, they knew they had nature. And so we

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Speaker 1: began just making sure that folks knew that we were

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Speaker 1: there for them, We were there for families, and we

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Speaker 1: were also there to help people recognize that nature is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily in a place where you go and drive to,

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Speaker 1: but it's all around you. It's your window sill. Like

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Speaker 1: I was, just like you know, in the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the sheltering place. I looked outside and I saw my

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Speaker 1: lazy pit bull laying on the grass like she always does.

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00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: I saw, you know, the blue scrub jay coming through

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Speaker 1: like it always does. And I just again, you know,

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Speaker 1: grounded myself to take my cueue for how to be

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Speaker 1: at this time. And that's like nature, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: where I keep going back to in this time. And

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Speaker 1: I think right now I think about Outdoor Afro and

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Speaker 1: just my whole you know, reason for being with Outdoor

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00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,239
Speaker 1: Afro is really about how I can help through this

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Speaker 1: work more people find common ground. And I think people

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Speaker 1: are looking for that right now. Explain the explain the

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00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: mission of Outdoor Afro, but then also tell me what

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Speaker 1: you're going to tell me about. Um, when I said

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Speaker 1: that the the north star of like total color blindness,

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Speaker 1: like convinced me that that's not the north star anymore. Well,

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00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: Outdoor Afro is two very different questions. Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I got you. I got here. Okay, I'm tracking. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: Outdoor Afro celebrates and inspires black people to reconnect to

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Speaker 1: the outdoors. And reconnect as a really intentional word that

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Speaker 1: I use because as I kind of moved through the

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Speaker 1: journey of developing outdoor afro um, you know that was

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00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: born in social media. I just had a personal blog

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Speaker 1: and I started talking about growing up wild and all

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Speaker 1: the things that I used to do in the outdoors.

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Speaker 1: And what happened was that there were folks who responded

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00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: back to me. And this is back in the first

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Speaker 1: wave of social media. So the algorithms are all nice

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Speaker 1: and flat. You didn't have to pay to play um,

428
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: and you could literally and I did, from my kitchen

429
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: table have this very intimate conversation about all the things

430
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: that I loved about being in the outdoors and about

431
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: my family traditions and the outdoors. And people responded back

432
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: and they were like, you're telling my story. This is

433
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: my life too. And that's when I realized that we

434
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: had a visual representation problem, that we didn't see people

435
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: who look like me or like my dad. Like my

436
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: dad loved nature, he loved wildlife. But he never would

437
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: have called himself a conservationist or an environmentalist ever, because

438
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: that was just not where he took his cues from.

439
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: He took his cues from his dad, who got it

440
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: from his dad, and so on and so forth, and

441
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 1: so it's really been for Outdoor Afro our effort to

442
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: really help restore that sense of outdoor leadership and knowledge

443
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: back to the home. I really want people to have

444
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: their nature swagger, Like you go out and you know

445
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: how to be, how to live, what to harvest, what

446
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: to set aside, what to leave behind for poison, you know,

447
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: like what, like how to really understand nature and not

448
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: think about nature as someplace that you have to drive

449
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: to and access through a parking lot and just be

450
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: comfortable and be comfortable and respectful, you know at the

451
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: end of the day. So I've had a lot of

452
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: experiences through Outdoor Afro and connecting with people from all

453
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: over all kinds, all walks of life, from children, two elders,

454
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: and eventually people wanted to find communities of folks to

455
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: get outside with. So we started what we called the

456
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: Outdoor Affro Leadership Team. And for me, this was really

457
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: disruptive because I didn't go for the wildlife biologist or

458
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: you know, the eagle scout, the people who we traditionally

459
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: think of as the experts in the outdoors. I went

460
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: instead for the real estate broker, or the the preschool

461
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: teacher or uh, the accountant the attorney, And then we

462
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: even had military vets who said, Hey, I love nature

463
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: and I want to share what I love about nature

464
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: where I live with others in my community. And so

465
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: I brought those folks together and we trained and and

466
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: and really learned from one another about risk management, of course,

467
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: and trip planning and logistics, but also things like, you know,

468
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: how to tell our story in a different way, how

469
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: to use you know, and harness social media and other

470
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: mediums where we weren't present right now, but where we

471
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: could you know, move the needle on, lifting up this

472
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: other vision of how people who look like me could

473
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: be out in nature, strong, beautiful and free. And um,

474
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: it's really been phenomenal how that's grown. Um right now,

475
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: we have you know, that started off as a group

476
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: of about eleven people who said yes to being an

477
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: out draft our leader. And every year, you know, we've

478
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: grown incrementally, just taken the time to really learn about

479
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: what we're doing and why we're doing it, and not

480
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: getting bigger just to be bigger, you know, Like vanity

481
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: metrics mean nothing to me, you know, because I see

482
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people being big and being wrong, you know,

483
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: or being you know, unwieldy, and so we just grew

484
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: incrementally our team and this class that we have this

485
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: year is about ninety men and women from thirty states,

486
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: and we have a participation network about forty people and

487
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 1: they get out with us and they hike and they

488
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: bike in the camp and the bird and they do

489
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. Um. And one of the things

490
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: I want to continue to move the needle on is

491
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: as people get more comfortable being in the outdoors, you know,

492
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: how can we talk more about sustainably hunting and fishing

493
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: and helping people really round out their experiences in the outdoors.

494
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: And I'm actually relearning a lot of those skills right

495
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: alongside them as my parents have passed away, um, you

496
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: know several years now. Um. You know, you really need

497
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: a community of people around you to pursue some of

498
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: these activities that you know, as you describe, take a

499
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: long time and take a lot of hands and a

500
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: lot of equipment and uh and so the the on

501
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: ramping can be pretty steep when you start talking about

502
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: some sportsman's activities. So I'm looking forward to building more community,

503
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: deliberate community around on that as well. Yeah, mentors are

504
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: hard to come by they are you can build like

505
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: a you know, and that's what I'm hoping that will do.

506
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: That's right as I'm hoping we'll do is like really

507
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: create you know, I've been calling it the B side

508
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: of outdoor AFRO after dark or maybe before sign up UM,

509
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: where we're you know, deliberately building community. And I've had

510
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: some great conversations with California UM Fishing Wildlife to come

511
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: up with ways and we can actually start folks, you know,

512
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: at the phase of getting there, you know, hunter certifications

513
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: and then moving them through the fall early winter to

514
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: get a duck hunt you know, and a big feast

515
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: at the end and and really bring people through the

516
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: continuum of good education, UM, good conservation ethic UM harvesting seasonably,

517
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: but also like getting their grub on at the end.

518
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: So what is the what are participation rates? UM? Like

519
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: I know that we have like for for fishing is

520
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: a lot better, hunting is ten male female? Yeah, I've

521
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: heard three African American. You know, it depends, you know,

522
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: do you know the rates like now yeah? Yeah. And

523
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: also I mean, you know, you kind of get to

524
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: this question that I get asked a lot, like it's

525
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: the why don't you know black people do blah blah blah.

526
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: And I think it really has to do with who

527
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: you're hanging around with, um, what you're you know, where

528
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: your geographic area is, because you definitely see, for instance,

529
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: in the South, you know, proportions, And so I really

530
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: look at not like these like finite amounts in this

531
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: big pie of how many people are doing an activity.

532
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: I always measure like in proportion to people's population and

533
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: their opportunity. Right, So if you have like a big

534
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: population in an area of you know, black people, um,

535
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: then you're gonna probably have higher rates of participation in

536
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, all kinds of outdoor activities, especially

537
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: if those um access points are near where people live.

538
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: And so I'd like to unpack those statistics a little

539
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: bit because people will shoot me with the well there's

540
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: zero zero point one percent of black people who go

541
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: to Yosemite. I'm like, well, whoa whoa whoa? Wait, Like,

542
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: is that like all of nature? Or is that like

543
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: one park that is about four hours from where people live.

544
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: And I think about you know, just the lives of

545
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: busy working families, you know, on the weekends you may

546
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: or may not have time off to go and drive

547
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: someplace where you've never been, to do things you've never

548
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: done before with people you've never met. I mean, that's

549
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: a there's so many big asks in that, and so

550
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: that's why whenever people choose to come out with us,

551
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: I always start by thanking them, you know, thank you

552
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: for saying yes to first of all, getting up from

553
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: your warm bed on you know, a Sunday morning, maybe

554
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: before the sun comes up. Thanks for saying yes to that.

555
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for getting in your car and finding this place.

556
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: Because we know navigation is a huge challenge for people,

557
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: especially when you get out to remote areas, and then

558
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, for trying something you've never done before and

559
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: around people who you don't know, because you know, I've

560
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: been there. I've been in the embarrassed one where everyone's

561
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: got the skill and I don't um or you know,

562
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: the physical abilities and I don't, you know, And so

563
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time helping people to get

564
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: prepared and to feel confident. And then once they're there,

565
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: they're supported, you know, and they don't have to feel

566
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: like they're the only one in the group you know

567
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: who has to you know, know things and we don't,

568
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, have a competitive atmosphere, you know, where you've

569
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: gotta you know, have the biggest, go the fastest, you know,

570
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: bag the tallest um in order to feel successful. Um.

571
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: And so when it comes to being seen, though, I

572
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: think it's really important that we really see each other.

573
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: And I think that when we really take the time

574
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: to see each other, I think it opens the door

575
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: for greater understanding and empathy and it reveals the core

576
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: of the love store of what outdoor Afro is really about.

577
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: I want you to see that I stand on the

578
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: shoulders of you know, black people who you know made

579
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: a way out of no way quite frankly, um, who

580
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, learned how to live off the land. UM,

581
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: sometimes under to rest, but sometimes of their own choosing.

582
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: And they did it in a really powerful and beautiful way.

583
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: And that there's so much that's when I think about

584
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: America and I think about you know, the ways that

585
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: there's just these intertwined histories. UM. I think it's important

586
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: to recognize that we have all been in this thing

587
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: together for a long time. And even if we you know,

588
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: didn't live in a neighborhood you know where you were

589
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: necessarily integrated. I think the effect on the overall culture, um,

590
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: the foods we eat, the music we listen to. It's

591
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: undeniably um. You know, intersectional in the way that we've

592
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: been in relationship in in a in a deliberate way

593
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: for forever um. And so I gets something to be

594
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: celebrated versus avoided. And I think that we can we

595
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: can look at difference and not look at difference from

596
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: a hierarchical point of view. Um. And I think that

597
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: that's where, you know, we end up in these slippery

598
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: slopes that if you notice it, then then somehow you're

599
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 1: positioning a higher and a lower. And some people do,

600
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: let's be real, But I think that it's some people

601
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: do what I think something hierarchy. Yeah, I think that

602
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: some people do. And I think that that you know

603
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: is something that that we all manage. But again, I

604
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: go back to this work as an opportunity to really

605
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: free ourselves of those isms and those judgments that can

606
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: somehow cloud are our way of getting to know one another.

607
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I say, um,

608
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: and I'm saying more and more frequently. And you know,

609
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: when I go out into nature, you know, the trees

610
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: don't know that I am black. You know, the birds

611
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: are gonna sing no matter how much money is in

612
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: my bank account, and the flowers are gonna bloom no

613
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: matter what my gender is or my political party. And

614
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: so I feel like nature really gives us this broad

615
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: platform to be but also to understand one another. Like

616
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: when I was UM, I was in the Arctic refuge

617
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: um with some friends and we had just landed um

618
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: just beyond the Brooks Range on the Chilick River. We're gonna,

619
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna, you know, paddle down to um the ocean,

620
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: and just when we landed, we had seen like this

621
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: whole like biblical herd of porcupine cariboo, and we were

622
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: just mesmerized. I've never seen that many you know, um caribou,

623
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: any cariboo, but that many, that many hearts beating altogether. Yeah, yeah,

624
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: I mean you can't like, you can't be the same

625
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: after seeing that. So after that had happened, we're just

626
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: kind of standing there, stunned and you know, really mesmerized

627
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: by just being in that landscape and having that experience.

628
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: A beer pops up in camp and you know, you know,

629
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: I honestly it was it was it was terrifying. It

630
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: was shocking, and there were some people who, you know,

631
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: do what humans like to do sometimes with charismatic mega fauna.

632
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: And that's the reason, go away bear, you don't want

633
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: to we hear bear clap clap clap um there, you know,

634
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: and the bear spray got deployed and all that, and

635
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm like standing behind a raft, you know, as if

636
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: that was gonna make a difference, and my knees were

637
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: all shaken, and you know, and just literally no more

638
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: than a minute or so because the bear just looked

639
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: at us curiously. It was not aggressive at all, and

640
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: it just you know, took a whiff of that you know,

641
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: that Arctic air and just disappeared in the landscape. And uh,

642
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: that was a moment where I had a hard reset

643
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: of my humanity. I realized that I was in that

644
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: bear's wild, and I think that there's this perception as

645
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: humans that we are we are at cause in the wild.

646
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: And it just reordered things for me in the right

647
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: way that I was not at the top of the

648
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: food chain first off, and had that bear decided to

649
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: enjoy any of us for takeout, that that wild would

650
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: continue to lumber on without any regard for its human

651
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: passengers and that, Um, you know, that was just another

652
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: of many lessons um that I've learned, um in this

653
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: work that while I'm leading people and helping people to

654
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: get outside, you know, I'm also sharing my revelations and

655
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: my experiences to really help deepen more people's understanding about

656
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: what it means to be in relationship with the wild

657
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: and how you know, that bear. You know, we may

658
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: not be you know, at at cause in that moment,

659
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: but we have a responsibility to help protect you know,

660
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: where that bear lives, and and to be with that

661
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: bear in a way that's that's responsible for it to

662
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: be able to stick around. Can you talk about uh,

663
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: drowning because I think this is it was I was

664
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: reading an interview with you, um, and you brought up

665
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: You're kind of talk about like different relationships with different

666
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: activities and how can different activities like how can there

667
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: be a sort of racial bias toward different activities. Yeah,

668
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: that's a great question. Have you ever read, um, did

669
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: you have read read The Unbearable Lightness of Being by

670
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: Kundra Milan Kundra a long time ago has a lot

671
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: to do with it's kind of this condemnation of communism

672
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: but in the unbearable lightness of being as a guy

673
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: and as a girl friend. And the writer gets into

674
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: when a parade goes by, like she grew up in

675
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: um communist Czechoslovakia. I think I can. I think she

676
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: grew up in communist Czechoslovakia. When she sees a parade,

677
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 1: it means something very very different, very different than when

678
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: the other person sees a prey. One's a celebration and

679
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: another one is a holy ship. Yeah, one's imagining this

680
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: sort of American Fourth July esque and one of us imagine, like,

681
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: oh ship, here's the Communes showing off their military, you know,

682
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: And like the word parade takes out something different. And

683
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: I read this thing in this I think as you

684
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: saying I can't here because you are and someone else

685
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: talking about someone brought up swimming and pools like the

686
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: historically to be pools that were just like flat out

687
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: say like no black people can swim in this pool, absolutely,

688
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: and now we have. And then you kind of linked

689
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: this to drowning rates today. I think it's an interesting

690
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: way for people to to begin to see a little

691
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: bit of what we're talking about. Yeah, I mean, it's

692
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,959
Speaker 1: it's no like it's no fantasy. You know that there

693
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: was a time in a not too distant past when

694
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: there were pools and beaches and public areas you know,

695
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: I mean and and like public property. Yeah, public property,

696
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: public beaches. Um. I think there was a bloody summer

697
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: in Chicago where there were you know, people getting beaten

698
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: for for trying to access the shoreline. Um. There have

699
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: been beaches, um, everywhere where there has been restricted or excluded, um,

700
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, parts where black people could not be, There

701
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: have been public pools, you know where black people were

702
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: not allowed. And so the consequence of that is that

703
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: today we have a drowning rate of black children who

704
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: were drowning five times the rate of their black with

705
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: their white peers ages five through nineteen. So, you know,

706
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: the public health consequence that your grandmother or your mother

707
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: wasn't able to learn how to swim and develop a

708
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: relationship with water is still felt today. And so in

709
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: response to that, one of the things that Outdoor Afro

710
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: set out to do last year was to award swimmerships.

711
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: And so we set out to get as many babies

712
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: in the water as we could and um, I wanted

713
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: to you know, get about seventies swimmerships out I call

714
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: them swimmerships basically their swim scholarships for for lessons, and

715
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: we were able to, with the support of a lot

716
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: of folks, get nearly two hundred of those swimmerships to them.

717
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: The reason why is because if a child doesn't know

718
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: how to swim, they're not going to ease into a

719
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: tippy kayak, they're not going to put a pole in

720
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: a lazy lake, and they're not going to give a

721
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: damn about plastic in the ocean. So it's not just

722
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:25,479
Speaker 1: about people's lives being saved, it's about that being such

723
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: a cornerstone skill that until we can get people comfortable

724
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: with water, they're just not gonna be able to pursue

725
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: a wide variety of outdoor recreation activities, uh much less

726
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 1: fishing um. And I just remember it was about ten

727
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: years ago before outdoor aftro really was a thing, and

728
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: I had gone out with a bunch of friends and

729
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: we had rented a catam iran in the Caribbean Ocean,

730
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: and and I thought, I mean, I was really comfortable.

731
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: I'd I'd swim all my life, and our host had

732
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: swam as well. But most of the people who were

733
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: on that camera, and I don't think they really understood

734
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: what they were getting into. And when the water became

735
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: really choppy, um, even though people had their p f

736
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: d s on, people were terrified in that moment and

737
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: they couldn't enjoy it. You know, some people got sick.

738
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was a disaster. But had

739
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: those people had comfort and a feeling of of even

740
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, just steadiness around water, it would have been

741
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: a totally different experience. And so that's one of the

742
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: reasons why out or Affro exists, is because we are

743
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: responding to some of the historical barriers that were real,

744
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: while also celebrating the fact that people did persist in

745
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: learning how to swim, learning how to be in nature,

746
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: folks like my dad for instance. And so we're you know,

747
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: trying to remedy some of the past while also lifting

748
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: up some of the figures in our history who were

749
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: every bit the wilderness leaders. I think oftentimes about Harriet Tubman.

750
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 1: You know, we don't think about her as a wilderness leader,

751
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: but how did she get people moving across state lines

752
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: in the cover of night and not no nature, not

753
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: no not not know the sound of you know, the

754
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: birds that may share warning you know, or where too,

755
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, stop and and and and eat or or

756
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: what can you harvest from the landscape? Like how how

757
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: could she have done that without nature knowledge? And so

758
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: for her, for me, she you know, embodies a way

759
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: that we can look at people in our history in

760
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: a different way, you know, rebrand if you will, but really,

761
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: you know, look at history of African and Black Americans

762
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: um in an empowered way, you know, versus one that

763
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: only needs saving. Interesting when you look at American history

764
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: is uh, the rapid, like the rapid relatively recent urbanization

765
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: of Blacks that if you go back a couple hundred years,

766
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean outside of their own choosing, but because they were, uh,

767
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: your ancestors were like owned by people, and we're told

768
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: what to do and where like intrinsically tied to nature

769
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: without even like an option to not be tied to nature.

770
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: But it's like working in agriculture, living in you know,

771
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: situations with no running water, even like share cropping and

772
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: things where you're working the soil and you're sort of

773
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: like what you eat is directly dependent on what you

774
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: do with your own hands. And then in the and

775
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: then in the reconstruction era, like after the end of

776
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: the Civil War that that these people who were like

777
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: really connected to the seasons and natural systems for a

778
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: need to find work into escape persecution went to northern

779
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: cities to get manufacturing jobs. And it's funny, how I

780
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: should say funny, just interesting how in a couple of

781
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: generations are like even our associations would be, um, they

782
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: like cities, right, So that was like a natural order

783
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: of things, and we lose sight of sort of like

784
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: the factors that led the demographics and sociological factors that

785
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: lead people to be where they are in a way

786
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: that in a very short period of time we look

787
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: and there's this assumption like that's how you like it, right,

788
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: and it's wrong, and that's and it's and it's a

789
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: disruption absolutely, because you know, I read Isabelle where Wilkerson's

790
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: book The Warmth of other Sons, and it talks about

791
00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: in painful detail, how people you know, had to basely

792
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: black people were refugees in this country and jumped on

793
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: on trains and and didn't get off until the train

794
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: ran out in places like Chicago and New York and Oakland,

795
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: uh in Los Angeles and created and and my my

796
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: folks were a part of that that wave of that

797
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: great migration, and it was really I mean when I

798
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: think a lot about their beginnings, like they they did

799
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: what's called hot bedding, you know where they work in

800
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: the shipyards. Um. You know, as a family, you know,

801
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: uncles and and you know Ken all shift doing shift work, yeah,

802
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: doing shift work, and also sleeping and shifts in the

803
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: same beds like so you know, the bed always stayed

804
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: hot um. And I just think about like the grit

805
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: um and the tenacity of people to you know, leave

806
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: what what they loved, you know, to create something new,

807
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: and and even those new places not being welcome place

808
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: for them to be necessarily. But you're right and that

809
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, we are not generationally speaking, we are not

810
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: more than a couple of generations away from that knowledge,

811
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: that connection, that knowing nous with nature. And I feel

812
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: like that's a huge job that outdoor afro Um you know,

813
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: is responsible for. And that is it's not talking about

814
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: the absence of but the presence of and how it's

815
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: always been there. How if you look at you know,

816
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: like all of the ways that black people have been

817
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: in this country, we have been everywhere doing everything and

818
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: if even if you don't see it in a magazine

819
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: or if it's if you don't see the representation in

820
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: a particular club or organization, it doesn't mean that it

821
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. And so that's you know, that's that's a

822
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: huge part of the work is to tell a new narrative,

823
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: and to tell a narrative that again is empowered and

824
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: really helps us to find a way to we may

825
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: not ever get back to those those places where we

826
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: are completely. And then there's some parts of it, you know,

827
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: as you as you pointed out, we don't want that's

828
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: what that was. That's what I wanted to ask you next,

829
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: because it's as I said that, after I said it,

830
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: I realized sort of like a like a miss in

831
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: my logic would be that I don't know, Let's say

832
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're a slave, and you're supposed to

833
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: build the Egyptian pharaoh's tomb, right, and so you're forced

834
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: to learn to be a stonemason, and you build these

835
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: works of human engineering that will be celebrated, right for

836
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: thousands of years. Does that person who was enslaved to

837
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: build King Tut's tomb look and be like, now that

838
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: was the life I learned Stonemasonry. By God, I was

839
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: good at it? Or is it just like, uh, don't

840
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: please don't invite me to be nostalgic about my agrarian

841
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: background because I happened to be there like under force

842
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: of a whip. So don't. I'm not gonna get like

843
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: all you know, sentimental about living close to the land. Exactly.

844
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: It's got to be tricky, well because a lot of people, like,

845
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: you know, you go back and you want to you know,

846
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: people go back and you maybe over embellished, you want

847
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: to like accentuate uh, your hardships because it creates this

848
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: personal narrative. Um. But that's the whole of the level. Yeah,

849
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: it is, it is, And again that's why I stay.

850
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: I stay grounded in new narrative creation. You know, So

851
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: going back in your family history and recognizing how you've

852
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: been empowered doesn't negate the bad stuff, right How do

853
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: we take the things that that actually could be in

854
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 1: service of a better life right now and create something

855
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: new for ourselves? Is what I think our ask is,

856
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm I you know, as much as

857
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: I appreciate the ways that that that folks have had

858
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: historical context, doesn't mean I need to go back to

859
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,479
Speaker 1: those places. Is um in every way. But I think

860
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: that sometimes in our effort to distance ourselves from those

861
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: bad things, we throw away the good stuff too. And

862
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: so how do we because for instance, you know, for

863
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: some people living you know, in the country, or you know,

864
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: learning about you know, or being engaged with our food

865
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: ways may feel backwards, right, it may feel like a

866
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: lack of progress. And so what I what I hope

867
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: to do through this work is to really help lift

868
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 1: up that those skills, those abilities, and your quality of life,

869
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, is actually progressive in a way that you

870
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: can live longer, you know, be be healthier, um and

871
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: and find more joy and connection. So is there any

872
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: is there any sentimentality for nature or is it all

873
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: like um? Or is it is there any language of

874
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: returning to or is it all framed as there's this

875
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: thing out there that we haven't engaged in and it's

876
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: beautiful and let's go find out about it. For for

877
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: the folks in our community, let's also recognize that the

878
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: outdoors and nature, wild, remote nature has not always been

879
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: regarded as a safe place for black bodies. I remember

880
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: I was I was about ten years old, and I

881
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: was like watching a special about um civil rights movements,

882
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: and you know, in the whole kind of timeline of

883
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: various events happening, which you know, honestly don't feel a

884
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 1: lot different than the life than what we're living through

885
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: right now. And there was the there was a story

886
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: of Himmett Till, you know. And then for those who

887
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: don't know, em Matt Till was um, you know, a

888
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: Chicago boy, and what people did when they moved to

889
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: northern cities and they still had family living in the South,

890
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: they would send their children to the South for the

891
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: summertime so that parents could work, um and for various reasons, um,

892
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: to maintain those familial connections. And so he like, you know,

893
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: realize that about Emmett Till, So he had gone he

894
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: was born in the North, Yeah, he was. He was.

895
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: He was visiting his southern relatives and you know got

896
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, was misunderstood and ended up brutally. He made

897
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: a he didn't have the he addressed a white woman

898
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 1: without the appropriate deference, yeah, which was you know, fatal

899
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: for for for young and he was a boy, beat

900
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: him to death and tied him to a piece of

901
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: mill equipment and threw him off a bridge. So so

902
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: what happened and um, hearing that story and seeing how

903
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, his his mom wanted to have an open

904
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: casket so that the world could see, you know, what

905
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: had happened to her. Boy, the brutality of it, I was,

906
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was shocked. And I remember

907
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: going right to my dad after seeing that. And I

908
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: had asked him, you know, because he lived in Texas

909
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: all of his life, and I had asked him. I

910
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: was like, you know, do you know of anyone who's

911
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: been lynched? And he just leveled with me and he

912
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 1: said all the time. And that helped me to get

913
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: present at a really young age that there's been a

914
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: disruption of a feeling of safety and belonging that exists

915
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: in generational memory. You know, if your dad or if

916
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: your grandfather can tell you firsthand stories and accounts of

917
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: those types of things happening, and who you know still

918
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: hold those fears of something happening to you. Um, we

919
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: you know, we sent out door aftro sent um you

920
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 1: know folks on all kinds of different adventures, whether it

921
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: be Mount Whitney or kill Himanjaro. And I can't tell

922
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: you that when those expeditioners go out, you know, just

923
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 1: the real fear and concern that those families have for

924
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 1: the safety of those folks for And I think that

925
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: that's something that you know, we we we some groups

926
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: can take for granted that you can go out and

927
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: you can, you know, feel okay, and you might worry

928
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: about wildlife to some extent if you're not experienced with it.

929
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: But for black people, it's about being worried about other humans.

930
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: I was I was talking to a writer one time

931
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: who wrote a piece about being um about being black

932
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: and being afraid to be on public lands, and I

933
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: called him to ask him what, like what he meant, right?

934
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: I wanted him to back it up, like what he

935
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: meant when he said that. I could see that someone

936
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: would say, Uh, let's say someone said I have concerns

937
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: of being out in the woods on public land and

938
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: getting shot by a hunter, And we could go and

939
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: look in the news and we could find, like, here's

940
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: a case where a guy what happened a year or

941
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: two ago, someone like mistook a woman walking her dog

942
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: for a deer, So we could go find instances that

943
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: would substantiate or not. Or someone says I'm afraid of

944
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: grizzlies and be like, Okay, let's let's dig into this, right, Um,

945
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: is being afraid of grizzlies warranted or not. Now they

946
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: might still be like, yeah, I'm still but I get

947
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: it statistically it won't happen, but I'm still afraid of them.

948
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: But I wanted to understand, Like the fear of public lands. Yeah,

949
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's public lands. I think it's

950
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: just the fear of just being out, you know, in

951
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: places where you know there's not anybody, in places where

952
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: you don't feel defend table. And when it comes let's

953
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: be clear here, when it comes to incidents of racism,

954
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 1: rarely do you ever get the proof um, And really

955
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: rarely do you need it. But in the case of

956
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: violent like physical safety and violent crime. Yeah, So here's

957
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: here's how we address it in our organization because it

958
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: comes up pretty frequently for us, and we're not you

959
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: know out here, Yeah, we're not you know out here,

960
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, um publicizing our stats and things like that. Um.

961
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: And we don't need to, you know, for it to

962
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: be valid. Right, If someone you know tells me that

963
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,439
Speaker 1: they are confronted by a group of people who want

964
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: to know why you're there, you know, what, what what

965
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: are you doing? How long are you going to be here?

966
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: You know that's not really friendly and inviting, right, And

967
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: so those are the kinds of things that you know

968
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: are really tough to help people understand that just the

969
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: unwelcoming peace can be enough of a of a barrier

970
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: for people who you know are already coming in with

971
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: a lot of again, a lot of historical narrative, a

972
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of things that you know, we've been, we've grown

973
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: up knowing about. And so when you go out to

974
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: a place and people are confronting your very reason for

975
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: being in a place, um, that alone is problematic. And

976
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: those are the kinds of barriers that we have to

977
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: push through in our work. I've personally experienced it, and

978
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: I've got tremendous nature swagger. I go out and I

979
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: don't feel ever that I don't belong in public lands.

980
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: But I've absolutely encountered people who asked me a few

981
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: too many questions to prove that you know, I belong

982
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: here and that I'm not a trespasser here. And I

983
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: think it gets back to this idea that and it's

984
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: I think this is kind of a tradition in a

985
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: mindset that public lands belong to certain people, you know,

986
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: and that even human humans as a whole, you know,

987
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: don't belong in true wilderness. And I think there's just

988
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: a bigger conversation we have to have, you know, around

989
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: just this idea of humans belonging in nature and how

990
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: we can exist with nature generally speaking. But I think

991
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: that when it comes to communities that have not one

992
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: felt historically and have known historically that they're not welcomed

993
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: and and and that bad things have happened in the wood,

994
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: and there are statistics about that. I mean, from I

995
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: believe eighteen seventy seven through nineteen fifty, there were forty

996
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: four hundred, um uh instances of people being lynch men, women, children,

997
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: shot maimed. And these are all and this is just

998
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: what we know, you know. So not everything gets reported, um.

999
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: Not everything um, you know makes the front pages, but

1000
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it true. Um. And So again this

1001
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: is why the work I do feel so relevant, because

1002
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: I want people to be able to come out in groups.

1003
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: Oftentimes people don't want to trapes out into the outdoors

1004
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: by themselves. They want to go out and groups of

1005
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: people to help them not only learn but importantly to

1006
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: feel safe and if people can continue to go out

1007
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: again and again, which they do. Um, you know, I

1008
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: very much see Like the work we do is like

1009
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, almost training wheels if you will, you know,

1010
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: for people to get out and go, wow, Okay, I

1011
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: know where to go, I know how to get there,

1012
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: I know where to park. I know I'll be okay there. Um.

1013
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: And so there's there's there's a lot of work to

1014
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: do around welcoming, and then there's this other thing that

1015
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: happens though, and it's overwelcoming, like hey, how are you doing?

1016
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know it's yeah, yeah, yeah, It's

1017
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: like I walk me through and walk through what it

1018
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: feels like to be overwelcomed. Um. Just I mean just

1019
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: what I just said, you know, like where you where

1020
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: people are encroaching on your space, you know, and they're

1021
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: want to like you know, maybe I don't know. Like

1022
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: there's a great, a really great video that you should

1023
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: watch and your viewers could probably pull it up on

1024
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: um Funnier Die. It's Blair Underwood and he has a

1025
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 1: spoof called Black Hiker, and uh, basically he's experiencing like

1026
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: the whole range of what happens as a black man

1027
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: in the outdoors, right, everything from you know, the white

1028
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: woman jogger who suddenly turns around and runs away because

1029
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: she is afraid of pursuit um to the park ranger

1030
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, who's basically been following you the whole time

1031
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: and then gets you at the trail head and says

1032
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: you need to sign the guest book. And he's like,

1033
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: why do I have to sign the guest book? Is

1034
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: there a rule that I have to sign the guest book?

1035
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: And then at the end, you know, they break down.

1036
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: They said, well, you know, we've just never seen a

1037
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: black hiker. Is my first time. I just we just

1038
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: need to know that you were here, you know. And

1039
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: so that's what I mean by overwelcoming. It's like I

1040
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: wanted to, like I I almost want to defend the

1041
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: over welcomer because like, at some point does it like

1042
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: is there room for intention? I think that, you know,

1043
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: like if you're aware, like I've heard that because of

1044
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: the things that have gone on in this country, I've

1045
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: heard that black people often feel uncomfortable and unwelcome in

1046
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: certain places. And I don't want to contribute to that ship.

1047
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: So I don't want to also not acknowledge another person's

1048
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,439
Speaker 1: presence you can, lest it be misconstrued as hostility. So

1049
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: in their head is like, um, I want to be

1050
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: a good person. I want to remedy or wrong, but

1051
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: then they're a shitty actor. Yeah you know what I think.

1052
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: I think people put too much on it. Just just

1053
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: be with other people, Okay. But but I'm trying to

1054
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: be an apologist for the person who's like in their mind,

1055
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: they're like, I will not let this stand. I will

1056
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: not add to this. But when you encounter like the

1057
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: tenth of those people listen, it's a lot. You know,

1058
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, all right, we're welcome. Okay, like let me,

1059
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: let me enjoy my campfire here, let me I want

1060
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: to explain. I want to explain like a thing that

1061
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: like a way that that would happen to somebody. Okay, Uh,

1062
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: As animals, okay, we we human animals, we sort of

1063
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: like become trained and what's what we see? Like right,

1064
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: we become we just like subliminally see things and we

1065
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: become trained. What we're what we know is around us.

1066
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: A thing we bring up in point, when I traveled

1067
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: to other countries like in America, I could see a

1068
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: person walking down street and I have a sense of what,

1069
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: Like when someone walks by my house, like that person

1070
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: is exercising. That person looks like they're racing home for

1071
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: some reason. That person looks like they're biking to the office.

1072
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't deliberately deconstructed, but or whatever. It's like there's

1073
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: a guy with a bike, helmet and a suit on

1074
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: a shoulder back. I don't know. I never even get

1075
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: into it. I just know, like, but when I go

1076
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: to other countries and we're driving down the road and

1077
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: then some far away land, another continent, it bothers me

1078
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: that everyone walking down the street my cues and I'm like,

1079
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I don't know what they're doing.

1080
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: And we even laugh about our inability to tell, like

1081
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: what is up with people? You know, because all your

1082
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: ship come on, if you see me out here with

1083
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: hiking boots. Okay, let me finish my story. So if

1084
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: you if I spent my entire life, or let's just say,

1085
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: someone spent their entire life in an area where all

1086
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: they've ever seen walking down a trail in the woods

1087
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: would be like that dude's hunting, that woman's walking her dog.

1088
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: The woman with the suber out back and the like

1089
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: the nylon hat and wrap around shades and jogging is

1090
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: like an exercise fanatic, and you just build these things

1091
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: in your head without thinking about it. And then you

1092
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: see a person like you see a person of another

1093
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: you see a black person, person of another race, you've

1094
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: never seen there you would there's a there's a trigger

1095
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: where you're like, it doesn't fit into what I'm accustomed to,

1096
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: and I could see how it would, how it would

1097
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: bring about and someone like a need to make sense

1098
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: of it, and see, that's exactly why we really have

1099
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: to lift up different representation. This is again, this is

1100
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: a representation problem because if you don't see people who

1101
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: look like me in the glossy pages of the magazine

1102
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: or you know, you know, out in an empowered way,

1103
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: then yeah, you are going to be startled and perhaps

1104
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: disrupted in terms of your perception. I don't want to

1105
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: say startled, but disrupted where you're then because you can't

1106
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: you don't passively make sense of it, So then you're

1107
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: you put in this position of trying to actively make

1108
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: sense of it. Yeah, I'm laying it all out for you. Yeah,

1109
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: I don't want making it uncomfortable. But I'm just trying

1110
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: to lay it out, you know, like how are our

1111
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: heads work? Yeah, and I just I just you know, again,

1112
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: I go back to you know, sometimes we overthink ship

1113
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: like like, yeah, I mean what I mean by that is,

1114
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, can people just be you know and just

1115
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: say hey, you know or whatever whatever the norm of

1116
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: communication is for a given place and just leave it

1117
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: at that, you know, because the idea that somehow, you know,

1118
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: you or you know, the example that you gave, you know,

1119
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: has to be responsible for creating my experience is in

1120
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: its in and of itself disempowering. You know that I

1121
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: get what I do know it's not the job of

1122
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: that person, and I just feel I don't I don't

1123
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: take it as my job. Okay, I don't take it

1124
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: as my job. I'm not doing good at jobs. But

1125
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: it's like I take it as a moment where all

1126
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: the things that end your head that you don't calculate, okay,

1127
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: on the subject of just encountering an unexpected face, an

1128
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: unexpected body, all the things you don't take accounted for,

1129
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: and maybe it's like maybe it's an inherited racism that

1130
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: you can't get rid of. Whatever it is stuck in

1131
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,479
Speaker 1: your head. When you see a person you don't know,

1132
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: you're forced to then be like, well, how would it be,

1133
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: how would it be that they're here? Not antagonistic, but

1134
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: it sticks, like it just sticks you and kind of like,

1135
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: what are the circumstances of the individual? Do they live here?

1136
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: That's interesting? Yeah? Yeah, And I'm telling you that kind

1137
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: of interest an intrigue. To be on the other side

1138
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: of that, it's not fun and it's not welcomed. I

1139
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: hate it too, like like I mean, not that I'm

1140
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: anywhere near that, but I don't Like I have been

1141
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: in situations in my life where you are aware of

1142
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: your presence and it sucks so to live like that

1143
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: all the time on public lands. Yeah, and that's why

1144
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean again, this is why the work is so important,

1145
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: because we have to lift up and really work through

1146
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: this perception that has been fed to us that's simply

1147
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: not true of who belongs in the outdoors because I

1148
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: want The thing is, people ask me all the time,

1149
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, what, like what are you really working

1150
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: toward here? Right and saying and I'm working towards I

1151
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: get it because you told me, But like, how do

1152
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: you say that in an elevator, not an elevator, but like, well,

1153
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: you know, brief interaction. Well, it's it's been consistent and

1154
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: that is you know. I mean we've learned a lot

1155
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: of things over the years, but I think your question

1156
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: really gets to, you know, what the goal is here,

1157
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: you know, because when the work is done, there's not

1158
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: going to be some big You're done and there's the

1159
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: parade and main you know, down Main Street, and you

1160
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: know you dissolves a good kind of parade, mind you. Um,

1161
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: you know it's not you know, that big, big moment.

1162
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: It is really that quiet moment right in that moment

1163
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: when we look up when that guy that you just

1164
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: describe or that woman or whoever looks up and they're

1165
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: seeing people who look like me out recreating, enjoying the

1166
01:08:55,280 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: outdoors in proportion to their population, in their opportunity, and

1167
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 1: it's no big deal. And you don't go right, I

1168
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: mean like like like i'll give you, I'll give you

1169
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 1: a concrete example, since I know you like concrete examples,

1170
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: and um, I'm comfortable in the theoretical that's all right,

1171
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 1: double background, No, no, let's dance. So so I um,

1172
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: I think a lot about and you're old enough to

1173
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: remember this, to know this, lived through this trajectory to

1174
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 1: like were roughly the same age, right, yeah, So like

1175
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: when we were little. I rarely get to say that

1176
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: to people. So I'm going to say when we were little, yeah,

1177
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 1: because you were little kids at the same time, right,

1178
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: But usually it's like, what I was a little kid,

1179
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: you know, right, Um, But but when I was little,

1180
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: you were little, I'm sure you remember, Like you could

1181
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 1: smoke cigarettes everywhere. You could smoke them in the bank,

1182
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: you could smoke him on the train, you could smoke

1183
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,719
Speaker 1: him in the restaurant, smoking or not smoking. You can smoke.

1184
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: You can smoke airplanes, maybe airplanes in the back of

1185
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: the airplane nowadays and they still so right, So, like

1186
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 1: you could smoke everywhere. It was not even a thing.

1187
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: It was it was something that no one questioned. You know,

1188
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: there were people who probably were individually bothered by it,

1189
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: but generally in the culture, it was just something that

1190
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: was accommodated. And then over time it began to be

1191
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: not okay in certain places, and then it got to

1192
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: the point where you really couldn't smoke anywhere. And now

1193
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: that's when I started to take pity on smokers. Yeah,

1194
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: like out in the rain, you know, like you can't

1195
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: even smoke, you can't even smoke cigarettes in front, like

1196
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: within twenty ft of a building now, right, But think

1197
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: about where we started, you know, and think about how

1198
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: it took a whole generation to really shift how we

1199
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: think about tobacco, how we think about smoking, how we

1200
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: think about you know, the appropriateness of it, as well

1201
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: as greater awareness of the health consequences of that. That

1202
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 1: we're always there. But it took a lot of pulleys

1203
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: and levers and organizations and pr and you know a

1204
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: lot of different ways that folks work together to create

1205
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: that shift. And so that's one of the reasons why

1206
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: I want to be on this show. That's one of

1207
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: the reasons why, you know, one big reason why I

1208
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: do Outdoor AFRO is because we have to be a

1209
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,639
Speaker 1: part of those pulleys and levers that tells a different

1210
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: narrative and gets us to that ordinary moment where black

1211
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: people again can be outside enjoying the outdoors, being strong,

1212
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 1: beautiful and free, not people who have to be rescued

1213
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: from the hood in order to have some kind of

1214
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: conversion experience in the outdoors. Because that's been that's been

1215
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: the predominant narrative, right, Like people I'll tell them, yeah,

1216
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: like I'll tell you so here's the narrative, right, it's

1217
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: um And even when I tell people what I do,

1218
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: sometimes their response is like the opposite of what I do.

1219
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, oh, Ru, it's so great what

1220
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: you're doing for the poor black children that you're you're

1221
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 1: you're rescuing a weekend out hiking. Yeah, exactly. And then

1222
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: they're going to become conservationists after that, where they're gonna

1223
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: go home and you know, tell their families and then

1224
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: you know, the whole family's gonna and Michael, Okay, let's

1225
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,560
Speaker 1: sit with that for a second and think about what

1226
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: really happens. What happens is that you have provided everything

1227
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 1: for this young person. You know worthy no matter what,

1228
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: but you provide everything, the gear, the equipment, the you know,

1229
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 1: the where to go, the how to do. You have

1230
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: isolated them from their family, um in delivering this experience.

1231
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,600
Speaker 1: They're just they're out with peers, but they're not with

1232
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: their family. And then they go and they have some

1233
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of experience that you will absolutely be memorable. And

1234
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of narrative also of people having like

1235
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: these breakdowns and breakthroughs or some kind of you know,

1236
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: evangelical experience in the in the outdoors, and then these

1237
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: kids you know, believe are believed to be changed, um,

1238
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: and then they'll have this this long lifelong value of

1239
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: protecting and loving the outdoors. And what I see get

1240
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: get actually gets played out is that these kids go

1241
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: home and their families may or may not be interested

1242
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 1: in what that experience was, and the kid has no

1243
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: way of getting back to that experience without you your organization. UM.

1244
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: And so there's no chance for that repeated experience. And

1245
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: you and I both know that it's not the one

1246
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,560
Speaker 1: time experience. It's the lifelong experience that usually starts in

1247
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 1: your home. UM, and it happens again and again and again,

1248
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: where you get to learn lessons and you get to fail,

1249
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: and you get to be successful, and you get the

1250
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: whole range of experience. And that is what creates this

1251
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 1: passion that's love, this sense of the need to advocate

1252
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 1: and protect and be a part of that equation. But

1253
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 1: it's not the one time backpacking trip. And I think

1254
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,640
Speaker 1: that we missed a really big opportunity. UM. You know,

1255
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 1: I think as long as we're looking at communities that

1256
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,520
Speaker 1: as as needing to be saved or needing to be rescued,

1257
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: then we are tapping we're not tapping into the full

1258
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: breadth of communities uh empowered selves and that you know,

1259
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: there are people like me, you know, who are professionals,

1260
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: and all the people who are our leaders, of of

1261
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: of our organizations, they're all you know, busy working professionals

1262
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: of all kinds of backgrounds, and they you know, bring

1263
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: a ordinariness to the potential for who can be an

1264
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: expert in these experiences. And then we're in our communities

1265
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: doing these experiences and so we can do them over

1266
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again and they not

1267
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: be episodic, you know, and a photo for the newsletter,

1268
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: you know. So that's um so again we're you know,

1269
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: just to kind of get back to your question, I'm

1270
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 1: so glad you asked about like the you know, the

1271
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 1: what do you do? We're really getting to the point

1272
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 1: where I want that person that feel like they can

1273
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: do they have to do anything, and that they can

1274
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: just be and they can respectfully enjoy the outdoors with

1275
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:32,560
Speaker 1: whoever they happen to encounter in those experiences before you

1276
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: got here, Ys and I were talking about a thing

1277
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: another thing he had read that you were talking about

1278
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 1: the birding slash picnicking conundrum. You mentioned how to get

1279
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: people involved. You have two very different responses. If you

1280
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:54,200
Speaker 1: have if you set up sort of a day of

1281
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 1: burning out at X location and like nobody calls you,

1282
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 1: nobody writes in like no participation, and then you say, well,

1283
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna go out to the same location and have

1284
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 1: a picnic, and that all of a sudden everybody comes

1285
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: because I guess it's just more approachable and you just

1286
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: happen to have along with you you're spotting scope and

1287
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:19,719
Speaker 1: some binoculars, and you achieve the same. Yeah, the intention

1288
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: is still met. But like whatever it was, like people

1289
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: just like we're like, it doesn't grab him to go birding. Yeah. Well,

1290
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: first of all, I got to give you crops props

1291
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: for digging into the crates because that, like I that

1292
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 1: interview I did, like I don't know, like eight years

1293
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 1: ago probably, so yeah, like went deep into the crates. Yeah, well,

1294
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: I mean and it's still true. I Mean, it's an

1295
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: evergreen um issue where you know people um you kind

1296
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: of pay attention to people and ask them what they want,

1297
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: right and and people. I'll tell you, the thing that

1298
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 1: got a lot of people out initially with us is

1299
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 1: that people just wanted to meet other people. They just

1300
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 1: want to meet other people with similar interests. And so

1301
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,799
Speaker 1: when you create you know, opportunities for people to connect

1302
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: with people, um, then there's all kinds of magic that

1303
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 1: can happen. And so it's absolutely true. I love, you know,

1304
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: watching wildlife. I love watching birds. I don't really consider

1305
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 1: myself a birder per se um, just because it kind

1306
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: of kind of gets us to a very narrow point

1307
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: in my mind. And I want to yeah, and I

1308
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: just you know, I mean I never cannot notice a bird,

1309
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: let's put it that way. Um. But my you know,

1310
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,560
Speaker 1: tracking a meticulous life list or anything like that, you know,

1311
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: I can't say that I do. But I think it's

1312
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 1: really important for people to notice birds also because noticing

1313
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 1: birds and other wildlife really puts you in tune with

1314
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: the rhythms of of where you are and and and

1315
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:56,600
Speaker 1: and the health of those places. And I you know,

1316
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: I love going to Lake Merritt In which is the

1317
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: oldest wildlife sanctuary in the country. UM. And it's also

1318
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 1: a fine place to have a cookout. And I grew

1319
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: up as a little girl going to places like Lake

1320
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: Marrin where there's wildlife all around us, but not necessarily

1321
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: the focus of why people go there, but you you

1322
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: appreciate it, right, and you know it's important. And there

1323
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: are people indeed who you know, bring the bread crumbs

1324
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 1: and you know, buy seed and and really engage with

1325
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: the wildlife there. But what I like to do is

1326
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: exactly that, like find a way that people are are

1327
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 1: open to getting outside and even like hiking, Like to

1328
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 1: say that, you know, you want people to go for

1329
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 1: a hike like that sets up a lot of expectations

1330
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: for people about skill, difficulty, hardship, you know. And so

1331
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll say, let's go for a stroll, you know,

1332
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: like just even just shifting like how you talk about

1333
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: things opens the door wider for people to feel like, okay,

1334
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: I can do that. And so when I say okay,

1335
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 1: let's have you know, a cook out, Um, people show

1336
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: up for that because you know, people love food and

1337
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 1: people love people and they probably probably get it, and

1338
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: they get it. I can imagine how this will go. Yeah,

1339
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,640
Speaker 1: but if if I called it birding, people might think

1340
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 1: it's some kind of you know, a very finite educational

1341
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, thing that's happening, or that they have to

1342
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 1: come in with a certain amount of knowledge or bring

1343
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: binoculars or whatever. And so by eliminating those things, you know,

1344
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: and getting people to just show up and I have

1345
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 1: the spotting scope, and I have the bird guides, and

1346
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: I have a chance to talk to people about the

1347
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: migration of these birds and and and also one of

1348
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 1: the things I love to do without door afro is

1349
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: to talk about just migration histories of black people, as

1350
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, and how we can learn and and

1351
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: and really connect in with the migration of wildlife similar

1352
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 1: to the migration of people, and thinking about like, you know,

1353
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: what do you what what what do you need during

1354
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, the times that you are are people have traveled,

1355
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 1: you know what do they need to be sustained? Um?

1356
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 1: What do they need to feel safe? And and and

1357
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: talk about also you know those same birds that were

1358
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: around you know, who are who are flying from Alaska

1359
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 1: along the Pacific Flyway. Um. So it's a really fun

1360
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: way to connect people into a conversation that's not just

1361
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 1: about this purely academic exercise, but one that is really

1362
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 1: about belonging and connecting and noticing. And I've been really

1363
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: thrilled to see the ways that people have really caught on.

1364
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: And and we've got people in our community who who

1365
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: who say they're birders. Um. We we have, um, you know,

1366
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 1: a really robust number of people who just you know,

1367
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: I've embraced wildlife observation and engagement. UM. But you've got

1368
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 1: to meet people where they are. Do you do you

1369
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: ever pitch people on it? Like do you ever encounter

1370
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: someone who's is no one interests man, no interest in nature?

1371
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: And do you didn't like cool? I respect that? Or

1372
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 1: do you then go like, oh but hear me out? Okay?

1373
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 1: So the conversation for people usually goes something like like

1374
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: I'll tell people what I do, um, and they'll say, wow,

1375
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 1: I don't like camping and I don't like hiking. And

1376
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, all right, Well I mean do you,

1377
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 1: um you like to fish? Well yeah, yeah, you know

1378
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,679
Speaker 1: me and my dad or mean, you know there's a story,

1379
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's always going to be like a breakthrough

1380
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 1: story that you can connect with that relates to something

1381
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 1: that people are already doing. Another thing that people do

1382
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 1: it is tailgate. Like if you ask me, like tailgate

1383
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 1: is like day camp, Like tailgating at a game, Yeah,

1384
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:50,519
Speaker 1: that's day camp. I mean if you look at all

1385
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 1: the equipment that people buy, it's the same equipment that

1386
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,919
Speaker 1: people buy when they're going camping, you know, complete sometimes

1387
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,959
Speaker 1: with a tent, and like you know from the everything

1388
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:04,520
Speaker 1: like everything is very you know, primitive in those environments

1389
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 1: with you know, rarely any running water. Yeah, I mean exactly. So,

1390
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, so getting people to just see the things

1391
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: that they're already doing as outdoors because I think that

1392
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: the other problem we've had is that there has been

1393
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 1: this representation that there's the right way. There's like there

1394
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 1: are they're the best ways to be in the outdoors,

1395
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 1: and then there's ways and to be in the outdoors

1396
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: that don't really matter as much. And again, I look

1397
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:39,760
Speaker 1: at how you know, especially busy working families, stressed communities,

1398
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 1: and the idea that someone can find leisure in an

1399
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 1: experience like dangling off the side of a mountain is ludicrous,

1400
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: you know. Like, instead, you know, people who have recreational

1401
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 1: time if they have the ability to take time off

1402
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of people work through weekends or they

1403
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,720
Speaker 1: work in the evening times. Um, what they want to

1404
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: do is probably do a cook out, you know, or

1405
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: maybe you know, connect with you know, some of their

1406
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 1: friends and go fishing and not do some of these

1407
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: really high adrenaline far away activities. And so that's been

1408
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 1: a really important part of our work. And when I

1409
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 1: did a poll early, we had just enough of a

1410
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: sample size asking people like what's in the way for you?

1411
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: Like how, you know, how can we help solve some

1412
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: of the ways of you know, getting you outdoors if

1413
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: you're not already and m geared equipment was huge, Like

1414
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 1: people just did they were lost about you know, what

1415
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 1: do I need or what do I already have that

1416
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 1: it can be you know, repurposed for outdoor experiences and

1417
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, quite a lot you already

1418
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: have that you don't have to go and buy, um,

1419
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: where to go? What to do? UM fears and perceptions,

1420
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 1: fears of not only of course wildlife, but also of

1421
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 1: other people not feeling welcome. But the number one reason

1422
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: was time. Yeah, and and and here here's the thing.

1423
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't that there's not enough time, but it was

1424
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: the perception that you needed a lot of time in

1425
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: order to get out and so if you can't go

1426
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,080
Speaker 1: to Yosemite for a week, then yeah, it doesn't have right.

1427
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 1: So so that's what we set out to do, was

1428
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,600
Speaker 1: to help create opportunities for people to get out in

1429
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: nature in chunks of time. And so we started doing

1430
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: like these like um, you know, these hiking happy hours,

1431
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: you know, where people might spend time like in a

1432
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,600
Speaker 1: bar or you know something after work between you know,

1433
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,600
Speaker 1: work and going home, but instead invite them to go

1434
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 1: out in nature with us UM creating those opportunities on

1435
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: a weekend that took more no more than two hours

1436
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: from start to finish, so that you still could go

1437
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,679
Speaker 1: and participate in the soccer practice, or take care of grandma,

1438
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,680
Speaker 1: go to church or whatever. UM. And so you know,

1439
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,439
Speaker 1: we really are meeting people and especially busy working families

1440
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 1: UM in the point of their need UM in order

1441
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: to open the door to access. And then we can

1442
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: take people along a continuum to do more things, you know,

1443
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 1: things that take more time. But by then we've we've

1444
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,719
Speaker 1: established trust and we've also established a way for people

1445
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 1: to feel more comfortable. Do you do you play UM

1446
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: in your head? Do you ever play a numbers game

1447
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:34,440
Speaker 1: about UH representation in sort of like the the industry

1448
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:38,679
Speaker 1: of the outdoors or the nonprofit like the non industry

1449
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 1: of the outdoors. Do you do you look and think like, man,

1450
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 1: it would be great if we could get to some

1451
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,919
Speaker 1: level of parody. Or is it more you just interested

1452
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 1: individual experiences and you're not and you're not using like

1453
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 1: a metric of totality. Yeah, I think when you start

1454
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:59,639
Speaker 1: playing the color by numbers game, it's dangerous. I think, Yeah,

1455
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I don't or rather I don't

1456
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: play the color by numbers meaning like we've got to

1457
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,679
Speaker 1: have X number or you know. Again, I go back

1458
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 1: to looking like America. Let's let's start there, you know,

1459
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 1: let's look at let's be proportionate at least right um,

1460
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: by gender, by race, but also really looking at where

1461
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: people live, Like, I don't expect to see a big

1462
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: population represented of of of people who look like me

1463
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: in places where we don't even live, right and so

1464
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:33,680
Speaker 1: or where you know, when I look at, for example,

1465
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 1: places near Oakland, where there's like tons of beautiful hiking trails,

1466
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: when you go on those trails, it looks like the

1467
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 1: population of people who are there, right, Yeah, and so

1468
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 1: I expect, you know, where people live and it proves

1469
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: to be true that where people live and where is

1470
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: accessible to people they are. I think it's really um important, however,

1471
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:00,519
Speaker 1: that the industries that are associated with the outdoors do

1472
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 1: a better job of representing that reality. Um. And I

1473
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: think that's what we don't see enough of. And that's

1474
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: when you know, again our our beginnings in working with

1475
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:13,759
Speaker 1: the outdoor industry years ago, there are very few folks

1476
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 1: um who look like me who were on those show

1477
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: floors and really talking about representation in this way. And

1478
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm really proud to say that they've come a long way. Um.

1479
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: But again I'm I'm looking for representation that actually feels

1480
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 1: realistic and represent that actually does represent the realities of

1481
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: what people do versus it being just a marketing strategy. Yeah,

1482
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 1: I think that you have a representation. I think question

1483
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: or do I want to know? Like what does it

1484
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 1: make you feel? Because we noticed I don't know how

1485
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: many years ago, branded we love and use a lot,

1486
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: Mountain House, dehydrated food products familiar and there they're packaging

1487
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 1: has always had a group of people camping and sort

1488
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 1: of like historically it was the back that's what the

1489
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: painting that was like. Oh and then it went to

1490
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 1: a million years. It was like a backer packer, like

1491
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest, like a paint but they changed

1492
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: the packaging and all of a sudden, there's a picture

1493
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 1: of a very diverse looking group of people. I think

1494
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 1: there's I can't remember exactly, not two men, one woman, yeah,

1495
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 1: a version of Asian descent, yeah, the black person. Yeah,

1496
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 1: the man's um black. Right. So when you see that,

1497
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: are you like, great, applause, good for you, or are

1498
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: you like, yeah, you know what I do? I look

1499
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: at the company's leadership. That's what I look at. That

1500
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 1: tells me the real story. Who's represented there? Now, who's

1501
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 1: on your board? This is on your board, Who's who's

1502
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 1: in the c suite? Because I believe that equity and

1503
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: representation and starts with design and not with optics. You know,

1504
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: just because you hired a model, you know, to be

1505
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 1: on the cover of your product doesn't mean that you

1506
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 1: really stand for And that's one of the reasons why

1507
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, we're really thoughtful about the partners that we

1508
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 1: have as part of our partnership portfolio, because I really

1509
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 1: want to know what you're doing when no one's looking,

1510
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 1: you know, And and I also want to make sure

1511
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: that we have a reciprocal relationship where we can learn

1512
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 1: from you and you can learn from us. You know,

1513
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: that's not just the you're gonna pick our brain for diversity,

1514
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion, because we have so much more to

1515
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 1: offer than that, you know, we have, you know, just

1516
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:44,560
Speaker 1: a network of just super brilliant people who come with

1517
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,719
Speaker 1: their own expertise that continue to help you shape outdoor

1518
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: AFRO that is also you know, able to move into

1519
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: some of these organizations. Like the thing that's really made

1520
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 1: me so happy and inspired is to see so many

1521
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 1: people who become outdoor AFRO leaders get awakened to a

1522
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: whole industry of professional opportunity that they didn't even know existed,

1523
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,040
Speaker 1: you know. And so and we're talking about not you know,

1524
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: entry level professionals. We're talking about mid career people who

1525
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 1: are able to pivot some good education and experience into

1526
01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 1: these fields and and get good jobs and jobs that

1527
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 1: have influence. And so I really care a lot about

1528
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, what's the holistic way that a company or

1529
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 1: a nonprofit organization is showing up. And I know that

1530
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: if you've got folks who are really at the helm

1531
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: of decision making, um then I'll have a lot more

1532
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: confidence in the authenticity of those efforts. Uh. I have

1533
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: a thing in my note. I don't want to read it.

1534
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I have. A note that's not

1535
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:53,720
Speaker 1: well articulated, says fear of cynicism around inclusion. And what

1536
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 1: I meant when I wrote that is that I don't

1537
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 1: like when I'm looking at our own company. Okay, Um,

1538
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm aware in my head, like I'm aware that we've

1539
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 1: built the company that is equal male, like about female,

1540
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:12,640
Speaker 1: about mail. It might be a little bit off, but

1541
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:18,719
Speaker 1: it's like remarkably better than the industries that we're working, Okay,

1542
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 1: And so I look at that and like, I feel

1543
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 1: proud about that. But then I think, and you'd want

1544
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: to someone you're forced into a conversation about this about

1545
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 1: gender equity. Um, you're forced into a conversation. I don't

1546
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 1: like the feeling of needing to say, oh no, look,

1547
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: my co CEO is a woman, because they're like, I

1548
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: don't want to, I I run the I don't want

1549
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: to risk making her feel trivialized or making her feel

1550
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 1: like an emblem or that she's not qualified. Yeah, So

1551
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:58,640
Speaker 1: it's like it winds up being really heard like I

1552
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 1: see it, I acknowledge it. I'm proud of it. But

1553
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 1: I'm afraid to like start applying numbers to all this

1554
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 1: ship lest people all of a sudden start looking around

1555
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:11,680
Speaker 1: the room and being like why am I? Why am

1556
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 1: I here? Am I here? Because you run around counting

1557
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,120
Speaker 1: all this ship up in your head and you're shooting

1558
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: for some goal and I'm like part of this like

1559
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 1: master plan, like that what I'm doing here because I

1560
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: thought I was here because I'm king and I on

1561
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 1: the flip side, how do you like tell me, like

1562
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: explain to me, like how I deal with that? How

1563
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 1: do they deal with that? Like? Well, I think the

1564
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:36,599
Speaker 1: one of the things that challenges us right now, especially

1565
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 1: in this time, is that people I call thirsty four diversity.

1566
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: You know, like people just want it just to be

1567
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 1: because it's emblematic, you know, and and you can and

1568
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,439
Speaker 1: you can tell like when it's not that they feel

1569
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 1: like they gotta they gotta, Like I don't want to

1570
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 1: say a gun to their head, but they're like they

1571
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 1: feel like enormous pressure to be like yeah here I

1572
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 1: am kicking yeah yeah, And you know, we're really thoughtful,

1573
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 1: like we can smell being a grant deliverable like a

1574
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 1: mile away, you know, because yeah, you know, people want

1575
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,519
Speaker 1: the picture they want you know, they want us to

1576
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 1: explain grant deliverable. Well, for some not for profit organizations,

1577
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 1: you know there they have mandates through their funding streams

1578
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 1: to commit to diversity, equity and inclusion. Right, and that

1579
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,960
Speaker 1: might mean that might mean that you need to make

1580
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: sure that your programs have representation, outreach, actual engagement. You

1581
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 1: know of certain demographics and there are folks who reach

1582
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:33,800
Speaker 1: out to us routinely. You know, we want to partner

1583
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 1: with you and for us, you know, partnership means a

1584
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,720
Speaker 1: few different things, right. Partner may mean like you've got

1585
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 1: something already baked in you just want to invite us

1586
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 1: to be a part of that thing that we didn't

1587
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 1: necessarily have a part in creating, but we're invited. And

1588
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 1: then the photo gets snapped and it looks like it's diverse. Right,

1589
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really thought partnership involved. It was just

1590
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: kind of more of an optical exercise. Another version of

1591
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: partnership is when you know, to or more groups get

1592
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 1: together and think about something that makes sense for them

1593
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 1: all to participate in, and that feels a lot better.

1594
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: And then the third is just outright sponsorship, like we

1595
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, we love what you're doing. We want to

1596
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 1: give you support to keep moving in the direction that

1597
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:16,879
Speaker 1: you're moving in. And so I think, no, no optics.

1598
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,160
Speaker 1: You know that people really want to support what you're

1599
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: doing and don't necessarily need to center themselves visually in

1600
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: in um in a way that validates its success. So

1601
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 1: I think to your question, though, I think it always

1602
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:35,160
Speaker 1: boils down the relationships right and people even online, And

1603
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 1: I know you've experiences to like people know when you're

1604
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: authentic and when you're not. And so I really want

1605
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,080
Speaker 1: to encourage us all to get in better relationship with

1606
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 1: each other. You know, I feel thankful like I'm on

1607
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 1: a board right now with the Wilderness Society, and we've

1608
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 1: been in relationship with each other for over a decade.

1609
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 1: And it started with them just seeing me, seeing my

1610
01:34:57,240 --> 01:35:00,120
Speaker 1: work and and using their platforms to share what I

1611
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,360
Speaker 1: was already doing. They didn't co opt it. They were like, hey,

1612
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 1: this is what she's doing. We want to recognize her

1613
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 1: all the way to you know, helping us with some

1614
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 1: office space in DC. And then you know, now I'm

1615
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 1: on their governing council but it was like a long

1616
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 1: time for me to feel like and I get asked

1617
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:18,840
Speaker 1: to join boards all the time. Yeah, you can tell

1618
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:21,559
Speaker 1: that you're on the normal path to a board member,

1619
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 1: Yeah right now, not just someone there's a courtship, there is.

1620
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:28,720
Speaker 1: And so I think that the same thing is has

1621
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 1: to be true in our workplaces where we really need

1622
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 1: to get different sectors in the same room together. And

1623
01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm one of the goals that I have for out

1624
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 1: draft row you know, in this you know conversation obviously

1625
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: is it's a little piece of this, but we have

1626
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:46,600
Speaker 1: to get out of the the same conversations with the

1627
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: same people and mix things up and get into other

1628
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 1: sectors where they may be a little further along in

1629
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,400
Speaker 1: some of these areas that we care about. But also

1630
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:00,680
Speaker 1: it gives us some exposure to different ideas and and

1631
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 1: and really helps us to do a better job of

1632
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,600
Speaker 1: network we weaving and be able to have access to

1633
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: other resources that we wouldn't otherwise be able to. It's

1634
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:14,080
Speaker 1: like I feel at times, you know, that in celerity

1635
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 1: makes it feels like a pond that's over fished, right,

1636
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 1: It's just like it's it's it's people going back to

1637
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 1: the same people the same conversations. It's the same people

1638
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: on the same panel discussions, you know, And I'm just like,

1639
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: I'm done. I want to make new friends. I want

1640
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:32,519
Speaker 1: to go to different places. I want to learn how

1641
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 1: other uh people in sectors are doing things and and

1642
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 1: take those new ideas back home and create, you know,

1643
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:42,680
Speaker 1: a sense of real innovation. Do you feel like you

1644
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: get UH when you talk about the pond being over fished?

1645
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you get a lot of calls

1646
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 1: that come from superficial internet searches. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

1647
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that we probably pop up on

1648
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:56,600
Speaker 1: the first page of you know, putting in just a

1649
01:36:56,720 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 1: few select keywords UM. And I think it takes people

1650
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 1: a while to get to know who we are in

1651
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 1: the nuanced way that we show up. That UM, you

1652
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 1: know informs the best partnerships, you know, and and and

1653
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,719
Speaker 1: good partnerships they they just have for us. They've taken time.

1654
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:17,040
Speaker 1: We have a lot of people right now who are

1655
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:19,719
Speaker 1: coming on board, you know. And I'm not deducting points

1656
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 1: for timing, you know, by any means, because I think,

1657
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, we got to start someplace. But I do

1658
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 1: want people to know that we're not interested in just

1659
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,760
Speaker 1: getting a check, you know, we're not interested in you know,

1660
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,160
Speaker 1: being a social media mentioned or putting them on our

1661
01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:39,360
Speaker 1: social media. They were really looking for people who we

1662
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:41,960
Speaker 1: can go out for a beer with and talk about

1663
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:45,879
Speaker 1: stuff and really get to know and and really innovate

1664
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:51,160
Speaker 1: and think about, you know, new ways of addressing old problems.

1665
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 1: And and again it really comes down to relationships. And

1666
01:37:55,520 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 1: I always say that change only happen at the speed

1667
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 1: of relationships, you know, So all of all the folks

1668
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 1: who are out here trying to you know, rush kids

1669
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:10,160
Speaker 1: and communities to the altar of conservation, you know, in

1670
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:12,839
Speaker 1: a in a single grant year or a single program,

1671
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 1: are just not not going to get it right. UM.

1672
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 1: And I think we've got to really really respect that

1673
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:24,559
Speaker 1: we're you know, we're people connecting to people, people connecting

1674
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 1: with places. And the more we understand about people and places, UM,

1675
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,799
Speaker 1: and take the time to really get to know those places,

1676
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: then we'll land in a really solid place where we

1677
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 1: can build from there. Room map, How can people find

1678
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 1: you outdoor afro across all the platforms, UM, I love

1679
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 1: to hear from people, love to hear how we can

1680
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: be in relationship with each other I'm pretty confident. Um,

1681
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:57,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people be real annoyed that they had

1682
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,559
Speaker 1: to listen to us to have a difficult conversation. They

1683
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 1: don't want that. But then a lot of people will,

1684
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: uh hopefully a lot of people reach out to you. Well,

1685
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:08,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are gonna gonna want

1686
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:12,160
Speaker 1: to know what they can do more than just reaching out.

1687
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 1: And what would you say if I was just like,

1688
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'd be really interested in doing something with

1689
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:19,479
Speaker 1: outdoor Afro. Yeah. I think you know, we're in a

1690
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:23,120
Speaker 1: really interesting time in our country right now where people

1691
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 1: are they're wanting to find like where the pathways, the lanes,

1692
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,120
Speaker 1: um that feel relevant to them. Um. You know, so

1693
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 1: obviously people in the outdoor spaces you know, are coming

1694
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 1: to us versus from other industries. Um. But I just

1695
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:40,600
Speaker 1: would invite people to start with checking us out and

1696
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 1: and really getting to know Outdoor Afro online before coming

1697
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,400
Speaker 1: to us with this thing that they already have baked

1698
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:50,920
Speaker 1: in that they want us to do with them. Um.

1699
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 1: I think the people who take the time to get

1700
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,280
Speaker 1: to know because we're not going anywhere, you know, there's

1701
01:39:55,320 --> 01:40:00,639
Speaker 1: no like you know, deadline here for people to connect

1702
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 1: with us. So take the time for this all goes

1703
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:05,120
Speaker 1: I got to get in before this goes away, right

1704
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:08,280
Speaker 1: all right, I mean we're not going anywhere. We're solid.

1705
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:11,800
Speaker 1: We've been around for ten years. That's an interesting point,

1706
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:14,840
Speaker 1: you know. And uh and you know, for me, it's

1707
01:40:14,880 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 1: been really important to build a professional organization that is

1708
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:22,680
Speaker 1: responsive to people who want to connect with us. We've

1709
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:25,559
Speaker 1: got a great team of folks who we can connect

1710
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,320
Speaker 1: them with. So if it's a program, you know, I've

1711
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:30,200
Speaker 1: got a great program director who could you get into

1712
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 1: conversation with people and find out if there's something of

1713
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 1: mutual benefit there. Um, people can always donate to us.

1714
01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:39,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not for profit organization and we need

1715
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 1: resources to maintain that high level of professional delivery that

1716
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 1: we do for everyone. And then we also invite people

1717
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:50,280
Speaker 1: to get outside with us. You know. I always like

1718
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:52,639
Speaker 1: to say that you don't have to have an AFRO

1719
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 1: to be a part of out dur Afro. So if

1720
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 1: you believe it felt like there's going to be a

1721
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 1: stupid question, and I've made that a goal of my

1722
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:01,000
Speaker 1: life to you know, not think that anymore and just

1723
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 1: go ahead and ask. But that was I was going

1724
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 1: to ask, like do you have to have an AFRO

1725
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: to join. No, no, I mean we we really welcome

1726
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:14,040
Speaker 1: everybody who believes in what we're doing. Right, So if

1727
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,040
Speaker 1: you believe in what we're doing and you want to

1728
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:18,680
Speaker 1: be a part of that, you know, we welcome it.

1729
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:20,800
Speaker 1: So if you were having an event like me and

1730
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:26,560
Speaker 1: Jana showed up, you should you have you you'd have

1731
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 1: a ball and we want to get kicked out. Oh god, no, no, no,

1732
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:33,000
Speaker 1: no no no. I mean you know, here's the thing

1733
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 1: about Outdoor AFRO that's been great, you know, and that

1734
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:41,799
Speaker 1: is specificity has been universal. We could have been called

1735
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 1: people of color and the outdoors and that's like everybody

1736
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 1: and nobody, and sometimes sometimes in our reach to try

1737
01:41:52,280 --> 01:41:58,240
Speaker 1: and include everybody and everything, we we can get lost

1738
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:03,080
Speaker 1: in that. And I because we have been so focused

1739
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 1: in our network, outreach and engagement that people can see

1740
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:11,600
Speaker 1: exactly where we are on a map in their relationship,

1741
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, either close or further away from it, but

1742
01:42:15,479 --> 01:42:19,120
Speaker 1: they know, you know, there's a definite dot on the map.

1743
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 1: And that kind of specificity I have found has made

1744
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 1: our message feel more accessible and universal to more people.

1745
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 1: And because people get that, people sometimes choose to come

1746
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 1: out with us and sometimes they say, you know what,

1747
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 1: you guys need to have some space to work some

1748
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:42,320
Speaker 1: stuff out, and I don't have to center myself in

1749
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 1: those spaces. But as far as like the welcoming piece,

1750
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:48,720
Speaker 1: you know, when we have our our annual training, you

1751
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:52,200
Speaker 1: know that obviously comes up. You know, people want to know, um,

1752
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, if if you know they need to be

1753
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,519
Speaker 1: a certain way or and and we always say that

1754
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:02,680
Speaker 1: everyone is welcome, and um, you know, we have multiracial

1755
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 1: families and all kinds of folks you know, who bring

1756
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of identities and geographies and economic classes.

1757
01:43:12,479 --> 01:43:15,679
Speaker 1: So we're we're really happy to be an open door

1758
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:20,920
Speaker 1: for people who are behind what we're doing. Well, thank

1759
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 1: you for joining us, Thank you for having me. I

1760
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:25,720
Speaker 1: hope some people come find you. Yeah, I'm sure, and

1761
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 1: I hope some people come find you. You're gonna You're

1762
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: gonna fish tomorrow. I'm looking forward to that. Okay, We're

1763
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,920
Speaker 1: gonna eat fish tonight. I'm loving that idea. What kind

1764
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 1: of fish do you want to know? What am I missing?

1765
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:43,280
Speaker 1: Well from? From from my trip for dost Bolt season

1766
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 1: two Dose Boats, I brought home a bunch of lake

1767
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:51,120
Speaker 1: trout flats. Holy ship. That was good Man mostly smoking them.

1768
01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:53,640
Speaker 1: I was I wasn't gonna smoke them, but then we

1769
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: fell in love with eating them grilled. I got one

1770
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 1: left and then I put some turkey wild turkey breast

1771
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,479
Speaker 1: and the brine. And then when I have people over

1772
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 1: hours cooking ms because I don't have to just put

1773
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:06,280
Speaker 1: them in the oven and forget about them. Nice. Yeah,

1774
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: I think it's nice, but it's just lazy. Now it works.

1775
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 1: And I brought you guys something to Yeah. I brought

1776
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:16,400
Speaker 1: you some cherry jam that I made last month. So

1777
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: so if you have maybe some ice cream or something. Yeah,

1778
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 1: my kids will be into it. Okay, I will see

1779
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 1: you later. You will, Broughty will see you tomorrow. Thank

1780
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:27,599
Speaker 1: you to it. Thank you bye,