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Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you. Oh well, I'm

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Speaker 1: in Sunny Whistler.

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Speaker 2: It's very sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny up here, a little

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Speaker 2: too sunny. The snow is melting and it's sticky, sticky snow.

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Speaker 2: And I'm officially a daycare runner opener starter. There are

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Speaker 2: children everywhere I go. They are at my house, they

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Speaker 2: live with me, not just my two buddhas, but more

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Speaker 2: children have appeared, and the dogs are attracting more and

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Speaker 2: more people. So my life is just turned into Yesterday,

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Speaker 2: one of my little friends came by to ask for

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Speaker 2: money because she was going to get ice cream and

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Speaker 2: realized she didn't have any, so she said, we know

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Speaker 2: Chelsea has money.

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Speaker 1: That's what she said.

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Speaker 2: And I said, okay, how much do you need and

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Speaker 2: she said a dollar and all I had was a twenty.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, hey, what does ice cream cost these days?

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Speaker 1: I know?

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Speaker 2: And she's like, do you need the change? And I

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Speaker 2: was like, it's really up to you, I guess. And

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Speaker 2: Doug is with his new dog walker today. We got

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Speaker 2: evicted from his last class because he was getting too confident,

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Speaker 2: and apparently Doug is going through adeless and some puberty

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Speaker 2: as an eleventh month old chow.

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Speaker 1: So he is a fucking nightmare.

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Speaker 3: Is there a little marking happening?

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Speaker 2: No, not marking, but he just well, I've had my

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Speaker 2: rugs cleaned steam cleaned here twice, which smells worse than

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Speaker 2: actual diarrhea. So I don't know what the point of

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Speaker 2: that is. And then I take he knows his command.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday I went for a walk to the golf course,

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Speaker 2: which because it was covered in snow. I can only

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Speaker 2: see a golf course if it's covered in snow. Otherwise

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Speaker 2: it just annoys me so much. And we were so

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Speaker 2: good with our commands. Come Come, Come, dog Come, and

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, he just fucking forgot, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm just screaming come, and no one's coming. It's

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Speaker 2: so pathetic. And I have my treats and everything. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: I have a new dog walker this week. Hopefully she

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Speaker 2: can whip him into shape. She's got him Tuesday through Friday,

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Speaker 2: I was like, get his ass on track, because I

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Speaker 2: have a whole waiting list of people who want Doug.

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Speaker 1: I was gone for seven days before last week on.

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Speaker 2: The road and do it touring, and then I went

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Speaker 2: to the Oscar parties and then I don't know what

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Speaker 2: else I did.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I went to Deer Valley to ski with my friends.

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Speaker 2: There, and I came back and and my friends they

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Speaker 2: had passed Doug around like a party treat. And when

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Speaker 2: he went from one house to another house like a

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Speaker 2: little dime store.

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Speaker 3: Whose that's a flusy.

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Speaker 2: He is a fluosy, And so it was a Bernice.

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Speaker 2: Quite frankly, the kids either want Doug or Bernice. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and now I call them Dirk and Dennis. Those are

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Speaker 2: their cameo names or OnlyFans names.

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Speaker 3: I guess, well, you're a true mother, just like calling

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Speaker 3: them all by the wrong names. That's yeah, that's how Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So this has been a stressful winter.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie between my fucking house and the

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Speaker 2: bullshit that's going on.

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Speaker 1: It is a disaster.

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Speaker 2: And I just am waiting in Whistler until it calms

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Speaker 2: down so I can go home because I have been

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Speaker 2: so violated and I feel like I have been robbed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's past the point of like, oh yeah, just

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Speaker 3: a little longer. I mean, when we're going on three years,

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Speaker 3: there's something else.

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Speaker 2: It's three years. I've owned this house for three years,

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Speaker 2: and it's still not ready.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Well, I'm glad you have somewhere else to be

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Speaker 3: that is beautiful and fun. And I'm glad you got

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Speaker 3: to take a break from skiing to go skiing somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: Also, I know that was really fun. I love Dear Valley,

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Speaker 2: I love skiing there, and I just love skiing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: thank god I have skiing in my life. It is

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Speaker 2: just such a gift. It is such a gift to

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Speaker 2: find out what you're passionate about and get it, get

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Speaker 2: after it because it gives me so much joy.

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Speaker 3: I love that it is. That is kind of half

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Speaker 3: the battle, is finding what you're passionate about, like finding

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Speaker 3: what you really really dig you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if I can just smoke weed. Oh I

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Speaker 2: can't smoke it all the time because in my throat.

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Speaker 2: But if I could just eat cannabis, mushrooms, whatever drugs

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Speaker 2: come my way, read books, and ski for like three

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Speaker 2: months straight, I mean, I honestly would be the happiest

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Speaker 2: person on the planet.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, especially if there were no children involved.

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Speaker 1: Well, the children are a nice addition because they're not mine.

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Speaker 2: But it's gotten a little good carried away, Like I

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Speaker 2: found myself at the kiddie table the other night.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what's happening here? I had a thirteen picture?

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Speaker 3: You posed it?

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Speaker 2: I know, and everywhere I go they come with me,

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Speaker 2: and I treat them like little adults. So I think

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Speaker 2: they really like that because I can't explain I'm not

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Speaker 2: being nice to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what do they call you? Auntie? Chelsea?

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Speaker 2: No, they call me cheuse auntie. I'm not there, auntie.

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Speaker 2: Even my nieces, Oh, this is funny. I'm taking my

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Speaker 2: nieces and nephews to my York. I said only a

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Speaker 2: kid's trip for this this summer. I said, only a

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Speaker 2: kid's trip, no adults allowed. And so then my brother

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Speaker 2: emails me yesterday and was like, uh, you know, Teddy's

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Speaker 2: fourteen and he needs an adult to travel with him,

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Speaker 2: which means his wife doesn't trust me alone with the

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Speaker 2: children and the children's I want to repeat that the children's,

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Speaker 2: nor should she. And so he's like, so I have

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Speaker 2: to come. I'm like, oh, so you're coming. So then

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Speaker 2: my other brother lays like, well, if Glenn's coming, I'm coming,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, this.

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Speaker 1: Is exactly the dynamic I was hoping for. No spouses,

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Speaker 1: the kids, my brother.

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Speaker 3: There you go, then it's a party.

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Speaker 1: Now, it's going to be so much fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you only have people who are underage,

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Speaker 3: who's going to take all your drugs this year?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'll have to find some new customers.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you know what we need, We need people to

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Speaker 1: right in.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to cover the same kinds of topics

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Speaker 2: each episode, so I guess we want to get into

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Speaker 2: different kind of categories of problems or questions that you

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Speaker 2: might want help with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you haven't heard it on this show, Like,

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Speaker 3: if you haven't heard your question, this is your sign

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Speaker 3: to write in.

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Speaker 2: All interpersonal affairs are of interest. All interpersonal affairs if

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Speaker 2: you're having an affair, if you are having a problem

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Speaker 2: with a loved one, a partner. I still think we

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Speaker 2: should do a couple's counseling episode. I want couples together

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Speaker 2: to come in sure for an issue or overall counseling.

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Speaker 2: That would be fun. We're going to do a nice

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Speaker 2: counseling session between my three girlfriends who visited us, right

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Speaker 2: Amina and Marie and Sydney.

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Speaker 3: So we'll get our counseling on. Definitely couples right in.

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Speaker 2: And I also think if you have like a problem

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Speaker 2: with a friend and you guys want to come on together,

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Speaker 2: That's a great, great thing for us to do. If

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Speaker 2: there's any you know, if you want to come on

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Speaker 2: with your mom I'm or your sister or your brother

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Speaker 2: or anything like that and you want to like hash

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Speaker 2: out an issue, I think this is a good place

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And the more specific the question, the better I

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Speaker 3: think too.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Chelsea,

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Speaker 3: I do have a couple of updates. Brenna wrote in

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Speaker 3: after listening to our episode last year with Katie Couric,

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Speaker 3: and she says, Dear Chelsea, I was listening to that

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Speaker 3: episode the morning it came out, and I was ready

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Speaker 3: for work. As Katie spoke about her cancer diagnosis and

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Speaker 3: the importance of checking yourself for lumps, I thought to myself, Hey,

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Speaker 3: I haven't felt myself for lumps in a pretty long time.

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Speaker 3: While I reached down, and to my horror, I actually

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Speaker 3: did feel a lump in my left breast. My heart stopped.

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Speaker 3: Within a week of listening to that episode, I had

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Speaker 3: gone to the doctor, received an ultrasound on my breast,

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Speaker 3: had two mammograms and a biopsy taken. I'm thirty two

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Speaker 3: years old. I've never had a mammogram in my life,

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Speaker 3: and of course, like forty is kind of when you

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Speaker 3: start getting those, so she wouldn't have otherwise gone. I've

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Speaker 3: never had a mammogram in my life and no history

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Speaker 3: of breast cancer in my family, and I was terrified. Luckily,

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Speaker 3: the biopsy came back benine, but it was larger than

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Speaker 3: they thought it should be, so in June I went

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Speaker 3: back so it could be easily removed. Once it was

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Speaker 3: taken out, they were able to test it and confirmed

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Speaker 3: that the lump and I were both cancer free and

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Speaker 3: I could go back to not having another mammogram until forty.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to thank you for raising awareness about this.

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Speaker 3: I've known my whole life that I'm supposed to check

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Speaker 3: myself regularly, but that is advice I rarely follow. Without

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Speaker 3: listening to your episode, who knows when I would have

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Speaker 3: actually felt the lump. I also want to thank you

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Speaker 3: for giving me that push to start therapy a few

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Speaker 3: years ago and for normalizing it. I look forward to

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Speaker 3: seeing you on tour this year. Brenna.

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Speaker 2: Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful breast. I know I need to do

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Speaker 2: more breast self examinations. Also, now that I'm hearing.

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Speaker 3: That figure supposed to do it the week after year period,

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Speaker 3: I think that's like the key time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I got an ablacion, so I don't know

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Speaker 2: when my period. I thought my boobs were getting smaller,

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Speaker 2: and I was like liking them.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they're a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit like purchas souayant, less perky, like a little

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Speaker 2: bit like yeah, And I was like, oh, oh, I

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Speaker 2: guess I'm you know, forty nine. Maybe they're just kind

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Speaker 2: of dropping a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But then I.

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Speaker 2: Got I don't know what I'm getting my period because

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Speaker 2: of that Ablasian And then they blew up. When I

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Speaker 2: went to the Oscar parties my dress, my boobs were

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Speaker 2: like it was like gargantuan, and I couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, where did these come from?

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Speaker 2: So I must be on my period, but they still

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Speaker 2: haven't completely deflated. Yeah, so you're supposed to check a

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Speaker 2: week after your period.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I believe that's correct.

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Speaker 1: So big. I don't even know if I would feel

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Speaker 1: a lump.

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Speaker 3: I think maybe there's less swelling or whatever, so it's

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Speaker 3: easier to find any lumps or bumps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when they get little.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I was going to ask your ablasian. You

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Speaker 3: went through with that and everything's been fine. Have you

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Speaker 3: had less period?

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Speaker 2: I've never had a period since I got Yeah, my

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Speaker 2: uterus scorched. My sister got it done and then told

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Speaker 2: me about it, and I was like, I didn't know

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Speaker 2: you could get that, and so so I went right

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Speaker 2: away and was like, scorch it.

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Speaker 1: Let's go.

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Speaker 2: I don't want any more uterine. I guess it gets

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Speaker 2: rid of your uterine lining. Yeah. Yeah, so that you

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Speaker 2: can't bleed anymore.

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Speaker 1: And believe me, I mean it was the best thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't get a period, and every once in a

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Speaker 2: while I feel my PMS, but not every month.

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Speaker 1: It's like every few months.

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Speaker 3: That's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then you can go and like wear address to

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Speaker 3: an Oscar's party and you only have the symptom of

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Speaker 3: having big boobs, like no other period symptoms. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm bitchier, but I wouldn't be able to tell

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Speaker 2: the difference.

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Speaker 3: How were the Oscar parties?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Fun, fun. I went to the Vanity Fair party

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Speaker 2: and then I went to a Gaio series party, and

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Speaker 2: yeah it was good. I was hume By two nothing crazy.

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Speaker 2: And then I went to Deer Valley the next morning.

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Speaker 3: Oh fantastic, just like an easy pop by.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, saw a lot of friends, saw a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: It was fun, good, good.

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Speaker 2: Our guest today is Happiness Expert, six time best selling

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Speaker 2: author and host of the popular Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast.

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Speaker 2: Her most recent New York Times bestseller, Life and Five Cents.

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Speaker 2: This comes out in paperback April thirtieth. Please welcome to

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Speaker 2: the podcast, Gretchen Rubin.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Chelsey, I'm so happy to be talking to you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, nice to be talking to you. So this book

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Speaker 2: was interesting because you discussed the difficulty that you found

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Speaker 2: in forming a meditation practice, and I think that's very

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Speaker 2: common for many of our listeners. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: are struggling with how to meditate.

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Speaker 5: The thing that I found about the five senses which

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Speaker 5: surprised me, is it's for practically anything you want to

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Speaker 5: do to be happier or healthier, or more productive or

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Speaker 5: more creative, we can use our five senses. It's like

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Speaker 5: the Swiss army knife. If you want to calm down,

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Speaker 5: you can use your five senses. If you want to

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Speaker 5: pump up, you can use your five senses. If you

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Speaker 5: want to connect with the moment, if you want to

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Speaker 5: revisit the past, if you want to connect with other people,

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Speaker 5: if you want to calm down, if you want to

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Speaker 5: be creative, you want to just like you, grind it out.

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Speaker 5: All of these things can be done with the five senses.

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Speaker 5: So it was just this thing. It was kind of

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Speaker 5: a perspective I had never tapped into. And then I

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Speaker 5: found all of these great exercises and approaches that were,

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Speaker 5: you know, right at the you know, the tip of

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Speaker 5: my nose, right at hand.

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Speaker 4: I did a huge amount of research.

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Speaker 5: I'm just like the kind of person who always runs

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Speaker 5: to the library. The only way I can get out

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Speaker 5: of my head is sort of throw a book, and

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Speaker 5: so so part of the fun of it was finding

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Speaker 5: things to try. For instance, heinz Ketchup, like we've all

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Speaker 5: had heinz ketch up. And then what I learned is

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Speaker 5: heinz ketch up. Probably the reason that is so popular

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Speaker 5: and is like the secret ingredient in so many popular

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Speaker 5: foods is that it's one of the extremely rare flavors

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Speaker 5: that's sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami. It's all five

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Speaker 5: and one. That is hard to do, and so it's

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Speaker 5: just fun to learn something like that and then go

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Speaker 5: taste it and then you're like, heinz, ketchup is amazing.

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Speaker 4: It's so complex, it's so rich, but who knew.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, So part of the fun for me was

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Speaker 5: discovering all these aspects of the world that I had

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Speaker 5: just I was so stuck up in my head that

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Speaker 5: I didn't pay attention to them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I just want to go on the record and

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Speaker 2: say that I fucking hate ketchup. So what does that

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Speaker 2: say about me? I'm one of the only people I

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Speaker 2: know that does not I don't like the smell, I

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Speaker 2: don't like the taste, I don't like the texture. I

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Speaker 2: don't like any of it.

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Speaker 5: Well, then that's that's a good thing to know about yourself.

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Speaker 5: And that's another thing that really surprised me about the

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Speaker 5: five senses is how we all live in very different

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Speaker 5: sensory worlds. Like a lot of people might say, well,

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Speaker 5: of course ketchup taste good, or of course ketchup enhances flavor,

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Speaker 5: but you're saying that is not my experience.

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Speaker 4: I don't like it. Same thing with the textures.

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Speaker 5: You know, just I thought that everybody liked sort of

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Speaker 5: silky textures. I thought they were sort of almost like

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Speaker 5: by definition, a good feeling. But turns out a lot

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Speaker 5: of people detest kind of a silky satiny feeling. It

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Speaker 5: almost like gives them the creeps. Where do you weigh

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Speaker 5: in on the silkiness question?

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Speaker 4: Kind of mind?

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Speaker 2: I like silky, I like that you like, yeah, that's fine.

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Speaker 4: I don't feel about the candy corn. That's another candy corn. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of things that I have a

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Speaker 2: violet reaction to. I wonder do you not like sweet

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Speaker 2: things I like? I like gummy bears and Twizzlers, those

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Speaker 2: are my favorite items. And twig spars those are good.

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Speaker 4: To Okay, okay, so you do like some sweet.

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Speaker 2: Things, but I'm not a normal Yeah, I don't subscribe

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Speaker 2: to a lot of things that people find like staples.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I also have an aversion to water. I

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Speaker 2: find that to be very boring and unsatisfying. So and

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Speaker 2: I really am annoyed that people are constantly trying to

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Speaker 2: force me to drink it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about how the senses though, how focusing on

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Speaker 2: those and harnessing your relationship with your senses actually is

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Speaker 2: an act of mindfulness.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: Well, as you said, like I've tried meditating, I've given it, solitarize.

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Speaker 4: I even did a silent meditation retreat. Did not work

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Speaker 4: for me.

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Speaker 5: But the great thing about the sense is is like

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Speaker 5: if what you want is to cultivate mindfulness, like that

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Speaker 5: is the way we experience the senses, Like you're experiencing

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Speaker 5: it right here right now. You can't book market, you

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Speaker 5: can't come back to it later.

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Speaker 4: It's always going to be new.

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Speaker 5: And for a lot of our senses, you can't even

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Speaker 5: keep experiencing it over and over. For instance, smell, right,

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Speaker 5: even if you love a smell, if you keep sniffing

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Speaker 5: and sniffing, it just fades away because that's the way

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Speaker 5: you know, smell is a difference detector. So once something

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Speaker 5: is not changing, we can't smell it anymore. And so

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Speaker 5: turning into your five senses is a great way to

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Speaker 5: cultivate mindfulness. And of course there is a kind of

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Speaker 5: a mindfulness technique called five four three two one.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about five four three two one.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't really meditate, so I don't use it

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Speaker 5: a lot of people find it very helpful, Like, there

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Speaker 5: are five things that you see, do.

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Speaker 4: You do this one? Is this one?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I don't know this either, So it's five things you see,

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Speaker 5: four things you hear, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: So what was it about meditation that was so tricky

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Speaker 3: for you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean whatever other benefit people were getting, I

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Speaker 5: was not getting. And one of the things I've really

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Speaker 5: come to believe is that no tool fits every hand,

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Speaker 5: and that whenever somebody says this is the best way

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Speaker 5: or this is the right way to improve your habits

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Speaker 5: or to make yourself happier, it's like, well, maybe that

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Speaker 5: works really well for you, and maybe that works really

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Speaker 5: well for a lot of people. But if it doesn't

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Speaker 5: work for me, let me try something else. And there's

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Speaker 5: no need to just sort of persist in something because

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Speaker 5: everybody tells you it's the right thing to do if

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Speaker 5: it doesn't work for you. So I keep trying it

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Speaker 5: because of all these friends who are like, oh, it's

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Speaker 5: so you know, you have to try it again. And

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Speaker 5: of course people tell me that the very fact that

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Speaker 5: I don't benefit from meditation means that I needed all

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Speaker 5: the more. But I'm like, there's other things that feel

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Speaker 5: more productive and more entasting to me. So let me

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Speaker 5: spend my time and energy on those things. But I'll

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Speaker 5: probably try it again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think it's so interesting because meditation quote

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Speaker 3: unquote wasn't a good fit for you, and yet you

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Speaker 3: wound up writing a book about the five senses and

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Speaker 3: like achieving my mindfulness kind of that way. And then also,

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Speaker 3: gratitude journal wasn't something that you really connected with, and

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Speaker 3: yet you have like your happiness journal, the one sentence

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Speaker 3: a day is sort of happiness journal, and that for

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Speaker 3: me it feels very similar and feels like your gets

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Speaker 3: way into those things.

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Speaker 4: No exactly, and that's a great point.

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Speaker 5: It's that there we can all achieve the same aim,

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Speaker 5: but we might find different ways to achieve it. So

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Speaker 5: I was deeply annoyed by a gratitude journal, but a

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Speaker 5: one sentence journal did the same thing for me, but

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Speaker 5: in a way that felt right for me. For all

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Speaker 5: of us, there's no one right way to go about

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Speaker 5: these things. That's really figuring out what what do I

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Speaker 5: want and what's the right way for me? Because if

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Speaker 5: you don't like candy corns, candy corns aren't going to

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Speaker 5: make you happier, even if somebody else is like the

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Speaker 5: highlight of my ears when the candy corns come out,

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Speaker 5: you know, it's like, Okay, well people are different.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk a little about what you did

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Speaker 2: discover works for you with regard to your five senses?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so many things.

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Speaker 5: One thing that I did was that I started I

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Speaker 5: was going to do it for a year and I've

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Speaker 5: done it ever since. Butch As, I go to the

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Speaker 5: Metropolitan Museum every day. I'm so fortunate I live within

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Speaker 5: walking distance of the met and I go every every

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Speaker 5: single day.

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Speaker 4: I'm very interested in sort of repetition.

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of people wouldn't like to do

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Speaker 5: the same thing over and over, but I love it.

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Speaker 4: So that's a big thing that I did.

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Speaker 5: Another thing that I did, and Chelsea, I'll ask you this,

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Speaker 5: when you really need to focus, what sound environment works

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Speaker 5: for you? Silence, music with words, music without words, same

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Speaker 5: song over and over for eight hours. It's cacophony like

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Speaker 5: a train station or busy coffee shop, like busy home.

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Speaker 4: What works for you when you really want to focus?

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Speaker 2: I would say I err on the side of complete silence,

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Speaker 2: but I am also able to focus, and this is

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Speaker 2: because of the hours of like I've put into meditation,

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Speaker 2: I've definitely noticed a major uptick in my ability to

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Speaker 2: focus within chaos. So if I am at a coffee

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Speaker 2: shop or if I am on a plane, I can

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Speaker 2: also harness the same kind of focus. My desire is

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Speaker 2: to have quiet, but if there's music on or if

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Speaker 2: there's talking, I can also go in and just and

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Speaker 2: just focus. So that's not something that I was able

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Speaker 2: to do for a very long time. I was very

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Speaker 2: easily distracted. Now the distractions are more you know, your phone,

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Speaker 2: social media. You know, you hear a thing on your phone,

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, let me go. So I've just I've

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Speaker 2: picked up habits where I leave my phone, you know,

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Speaker 2: in a place where I'm not going to access it.

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Speaker 2: You yes, and but yes, I have been able. I'm

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Speaker 2: able to harness my focus in most environments. Yes, but

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Speaker 2: I would prefer silence, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the same way.

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Speaker 5: Well, speaking of smartphone, like, one of the things I

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Speaker 5: looked at is how can I use my five senses

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Speaker 5: to help me disengage with my phone when I want to.

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Speaker 5: So one of the things you mentioned, the classic, which

440
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,159
Speaker 5: is just put it somewhere out of the way so

441
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 5: you can't get your hands on it.

442
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 4: That works.

443
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 5: Another one is to turn off notifications because they're so distracting.

444
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 5: My phone is on silent all the time and so

445
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 5: and I don't understand how people can deal with just

446
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 5: like these random beeps. I find it immensely distracting. And

447
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 5: here's another thing that a lot of people don't know about,

448
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 5: which is you can turn your phone to grayscale, so

449
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 5: that it's only in black, white, and gray. It's like

450
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 5: your grandparents' TV set instead of in full rich color.

451
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 5: And it's much harder to use your phone. It's like,

452
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 5: actually more difficult to use it. And of course it's

453
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 5: much less interesting when like all the photographs are in

454
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 5: black and white and all the beautiful colors are gone,

455
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 5: and then your phone isn't engaging in your senses the

456
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 5: way it's trying to do. It's of course, it's cleverly

457
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 5: engine by the most brilliant people to try to hook

458
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 5: you in every second, so we can use.

459
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 4: Our senses to foil that as well.

460
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 2: Okay, so how do you use your five senses to

461
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 2: ground yourself more in the present moment?

462
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 5: Well, of course, the five senses are just a great

463
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 5: way to be present in the moment because we have

464
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 5: to think about like what am I seeing, what am

465
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 5: I hearing? What am I smelling? And one of the

466
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 5: things I found is that a lot of us have

467
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 5: a neglected sense, like there's there are certain senses that

468
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 5: we really we really appreciate, and so we're wanting to

469
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 5: have adventures with that sense. We turn to it for

470
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,479
Speaker 5: comfort and pleasure, We use it to engage with other people,

471
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 5: we want to learn about it, we want to you know,

472
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 5: we're really appreciating it. But then there are the neglected

473
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 5: senses where there are ones where we aren't using it

474
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 5: for mindfulness and we aren't paying attention to it. Maybe

475
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,479
Speaker 5: we're only paying attention to it when we're annoyed or

476
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 5: irritated or we want to avoid the downside of it.

477
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 5: And so it's great to know you're a neglected sense

478
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 5: because that's where we have a lot of low hanging

479
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 5: through That's that's something that you can turn into and say, well,

480
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 5: how could I have adventures or how could I connect

481
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 5: with other people, or how could I get more comfort

482
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 5: and pleasure out of it? So I actually created a

483
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 5: quiz where you can you know on my website where

484
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 5: you can find out what is your neglected sense and

485
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 5: then from that figure.

486
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 4: Out how you could tap into it to be happier.

487
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 2: And what about people who are struggling to maintain a

488
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 2: level of happiness or constantly thinking about like the next

489
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: negative thing that could happen, like they can't sit comfortably

490
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 2: in their happiness.

491
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a very persistent belief that if we rehearse

492
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 5: disaster or unhappiness will somehow offset it. So I think

493
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 5: for some people there's only almost like a feeling of

494
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 5: magic that if I think about it a lot, somehow

495
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 5: it won't happen, which, of course that doesn't work like that,

496
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 5: And so I think for people who face that challenge,

497
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 5: it can be very helpful to say, Okay, well let

498
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 5: me just take a breath, let me just look around,

499
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 5: really look at the sky, really hear what I'm hearing,

500
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 5: really smell. I live in New York Cities, so it's

501
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 5: very smelly. And I finally just like walking down the

502
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 5: street and like, what actually am I smelling? Like maybe

503
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 5: I'm walking by a hair salun so I'm smelling that

504
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 5: hair salon smell, or I'm walking by a hardware store.

505
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 5: The hardware store smell is one of my very favorite

506
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 5: smells in the world, and so just taking a moment

507
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 5: to dial into your body like that a lot of

508
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 5: times can help people manage that anxiety about you know,

509
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,479
Speaker 5: what's going to unfold in the future.

510
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: Going back to what you said about going to the

511
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: mat every day, you talk a little bit about the

512
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 3: difference between something that you're experiencing with a lot of

513
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 3: repetition and sort of noticing the nuance when you see

514
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 3: the same thing all the time. Can you talk a

515
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: little bit about what you learned about repetition versus novelty

516
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 3: and how it affects different people.

517
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 4: This is fascinating.

518
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 5: What the research shows is that people who do novel

519
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 5: things tend to be happier, even things as kind of

520
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 5: elemental as going to a new restaurant for dinner, going

521
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 5: to a different neighborhood.

522
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 4: So there's definitely a huge role for novelty and happiness.

523
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 5: But I also think that you can't overlook the pleasures

524
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 5: of repetition, and I think people are really different. I

525
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 5: think some people really love repetition and familiarity and other

526
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 5: people are There's sort of like, if you could do

527
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 5: anything every day, why would you waste it going to

528
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 5: the same place over and over.

529
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 4: It seems like a wasted opportunity.

530
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 5: But I've always been really fascinated by how things change

531
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 5: very gradually over time and doing something over and over.

532
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 5: And I assume that I was very idiosyncratic about that,

533
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 5: But ever since the book came out, I've heard from

534
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 5: a ton of people where they do exactly the same

535
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 5: walk with their dog every day and they enjoy seeing

536
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 5: like how this one tree changes over time, or they'll

537
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 5: go to a river and take a picture at sunset

538
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 5: every night, and like they like doing it over and

539
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 5: over and over again. So I think it is something

540
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 5: where people are different. But what I found is things

541
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 5: change much more.

542
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 4: Than I thought.

543
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 5: Like I went into it thinking like, oh, you know,

544
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 5: this is basically going to be the same every day,

545
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 5: but there's so much change, like when you are able

546
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 5: to appreciate the subtleties. And I just think that doing

547
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 5: something over and over and over, and especially something like

548
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 5: a big experience visiting a museum a lot of times.

549
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 5: I don't know about you, but you have this feeling like, well,

550
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 5: I have to make the most of my time, right,

551
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 5: I have to prioritize I have to be efficient. It's like,

552
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 5: if you're doing something every day, it's like you don't

553
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 5: have to be efficient, you get all do You could

554
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 5: just waste time, it doesn't. No day matters. So for

555
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 5: me it was and it was just this chance to

556
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 5: just completely get out of my head and into this

557
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 5: beautiful space.

558
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: And so I just never stopped because I love doing

559
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 4: it so much.

560
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I also wonder you know, you have talked

561
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 3: about how focusing on your senses has helped you change

562
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: your relationship to yourself, but I wonder if it affected

563
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: your relationships with your kids, your husband, your friends, your

564
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 3: interpersonal relationships.

565
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 5: No, one hundred percent. And it's a great way to

566
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 5: connect with other people. Now, of course we know this

567
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 5: from like what is the classic thing. It's like you

568
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 5: go out to dinner with your friends, and that's a

569
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 5: great way to connect through a sensory experience. But you

570
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 5: can do a lot of things like I went to

571
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 5: a sound bath with a friend. I had a flavor

572
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 5: party where I had all my friends come over and

573
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 5: then we did well. One of the things we did

574
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 5: was we tasted ketchup, which would not have been maybe

575
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 5: not everybody would have enjoyed it as much as I did,

576
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 5: and we did taste comparisons, like three different potato chips

577
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 5: and three you.

578
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: Know what it's called when you hate the smell, taste, texture,

579
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: like reject ketchup. Yes, okay, it's not like one sense

580
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: like I don't like the taste.

581
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: It's all encompassing.

582
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 4: Do you like the color? I think it's a nice color.

583
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: No, because I know what that color comes with.

584
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, okay, okay, you know you know what you

585
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 5: don't want? What about ketchup based things like meat loaf,

586
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 5: things that have a lot of ketchup?

587
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can.

588
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: Have those, but again, not my face, not my.

589
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 4: Face, not your favorite, yea, not your favorite.

590
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 5: But I mean even that is fun at the taste

591
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 5: party where you find out like, oh okay, this friend

592
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 5: of mine that I've had for years hates ketchup and

593
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 5: I never knew that. Or we were all reminiscing about

594
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 5: the candy that we ate as kids, and it was like,

595
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 5: but there were all these really regional differences in what

596
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 5: kinds of candies like we wanted as children, And it's

597
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 5: really dining in the dark work with my family.

598
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: So we went where they liked you. Oh I went there.

599
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, interesting, right, Like it's sort of a memorable

600
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 5: adventure to go on. So it is a great way

601
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 5: to connect with other people and you can think about, Yeah,

602
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 5: we could go for hike outside, we could go to dinner,

603
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 5: but maybe we want to do something that's more different,

604
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 5: that's going to tap into our senses in a different way.

605
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

606
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: My friend and I went, and I wrote about this

607
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: in one of my books. We went to a restaurant

608
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: actually called Dining in the Dark don la Noir. It

609
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: was called in London, and you eat in the dark

610
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: and you order in the dark, and you're it's supposed

611
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: to heighten your experience and the taste and all of

612
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: those things.

613
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 5: Well, okay, when I did it, everybody clearly was very

614
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 5: suspicious that we were going to be fed something that

615
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 5: we wouldn't otherwise eat, and so I think everybody was

616
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 5: very apprehensive. I think I might have enjoyed it more

617
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 5: if i'd kind of known what I was getting into.

618
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: What was your experience? What did you think about that?

619
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't that impressed with the food. It was

620
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: more of like a it was more of a heightened

621
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: sense of not being able to see where you are,

622
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: what you're eating, who you're with, who's looking at you?

623
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 5: No, I kept reaching out to touch my other family

624
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 5: members because I didn't feel oriented toward them.

625
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, it's very disorienting.

626
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 5: So it's interesting, it's very but again it's like it's

627
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 5: very memorable. It's so different from what we would usually

628
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 5: experience that, like, you know, for both of us, these

629
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 5: experience happened years ago, and we have a clear I

630
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 5: mean I certainly have a clearer memory of that than

631
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 5: a thousand other dinners that I went to.

632
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 4: With my family.

633
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 5: So yeah, so doing again it's something novel, so that

634
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 5: makes it more interesting, and it's dialing into our senses.

635
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 4: In a way that's really fun.

636
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 5: And also the thing about the census is every you know,

637
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 5: you can do it so that everybody experiences it together.

638
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 4: They all have their opinion.

639
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 5: So someone was telling me that at a big family

640
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 5: like you know, Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever, they would

641
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 5: buy you know, this bizarre ice cream flavors. You're like,

642
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 5: who wants rosemary in time ice cream? Like you're you're intrigued,

643
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 5: but like who wants to like two more things?

644
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: I can't stand roastberry and time.

645
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 5: So right, so they would get all the bizarre, the

646
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 5: cream corn, all the strains, ice cream flavors, and then

647
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 5: they would pass it around and everybody would have a

648
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 5: spoonful or two, and then they would talk about what

649
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 5: they liked or didn't like it, and it was just like

650
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: a three year old can talk about it, a ninety

651
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 5: three year old can talk about it.

652
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 4: Everybody's sharing this experience. It's kind of fun.

653
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 5: It's playful, and it's a way to bring people together

654
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 5: through a sensory experience in a way that's unconventional but

655
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 5: really fun.

656
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're

657
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: going to be right back to take some callers, and

658
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: we're back.

659
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 3: We are back, Sarah, Right, you're Chelsea. My husband and

660
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: I have spent the last three years learning about life

661
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: outside of Mormonism. It's scary and amazing and freeing. My

662
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 3: husband is preparing to go on a psilocybin journey to

663
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: learn more about himself and a spirituality. I'm truly excited

664
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: for him, and while I don't personally feel called to

665
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: sit with psychedelics, I want to honor him and his journey.

666
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: So my question for you is this, how can I

667
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: show my support and help him prepare for his journey,

668
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 3: and how can I get past my own concerns and

669
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 3: fully embrace whatever may come for him and for us, Sarah, I.

670
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 5: Would say, ask him, ask him how he wants to

671
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 5: be supported. It's it sounds like she's not going to

672
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 5: do it herself, So what would he what would he

673
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 5: want to be supported?

674
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, you know, opening a dialogue and

675
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: keeping that dialogue open about fears or misgivings or things

676
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: that he's looking forward to, or you know, any sort

677
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: of I don't know, maybe some negative feelings that he

678
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: has attached to it. I would just try to diminish

679
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: those as best I could as a partner, as a

680
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: loving partner in support of him that this is going

681
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: to be a positive experience. I think the most important

682
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: thing you can do when you go into these experiences

683
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: is to be open and to be ready for whatever,

684
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: and also to have the confidence and the feeling that

685
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: it's going to be a great experience, like not to

686
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: go in scared and not to go in with any

687
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: sort of kind of negativity around it. So I think

688
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: learning as much as you can about what he's working

689
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: on is going to be a helpful tool to balance

690
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: him and show him like a support and that's pretty

691
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: much all you can do, you know. I don't think

692
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: you should be labor it to the point where it's

693
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: you know, annoying and like, Okay, I need you to

694
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: talk about everything. Like as much as he's comfortable, I

695
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: think you make yourself, You make your presence known.

696
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: I'm here.

697
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: I want to be here with you and for you,

698
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: and however that takes shape. Let me know what you're

699
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: comfortable with and let him guide.

700
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: You and stay curious, as you say, like, be interested

701
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 5: and listen about whatever it is that he's discovering.

702
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: I think the biggest gift we can give anyone going

703
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: through anything that is different is to listen. Right, We

704
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: can listen and listen and listen, and people will usually

705
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: figure everything out. If they're honest with themselves and they're

706
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: in a place of learning, they are able to talk

707
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: through most things, you know. And so anything that can

708
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: spark a conversation or can ignite a conversation that you

709
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: may have not had yet, you know, is always good

710
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: to go into new territories and to talk about things

711
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: that haven't been unearthed yet, because I think when he

712
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: comes out of it, there can also be a feeling

713
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: of like separateness when somebody goes on a journey and

714
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: they come back, because it's kind of ineffable. You can't

715
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: even describe what happened to you to the to the

716
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: next person. And I would say to always try to

717
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: bridge that gap, like it doesn't matter that you didn't

718
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: experience it, You're there to enjoy his experience. I would

719
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: always just move closer to the person who's going through

720
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 2: something to make sure that your presence is felt, your

721
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: presence is known, and they know you're right next to them.

722
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 5: It sounded from her question like maybe she's feeling a

723
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 5: little bit of apprehension about it.

724
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it did sound like that.

725
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 5: What you're saying is don't like sort of don't communicate

726
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 5: that to him, because he'll have a better experience if

727
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 5: he's not picking up on your concerns. So maybe it's

728
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 5: like confide that to someone else because.

729
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: It's also not about you, really, it's about him, So

730
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: make it about him.

731
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you both and tell say correct me if

732
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: I'm wrong. But when you first tried Iohwaska, it was

733
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: sort of like you didn't really feel much, Is that right?

734
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: I think you both had sort of like not an experience.

735
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: Obviously psilocybin's different, but not the experience you expected to

736
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: have when you tried it, right.

737
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I was pulled out of

738
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: mind because in my friend's reactions to their own experiences.

739
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: I was with two friends, so that kind of that

740
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: kind of pulled me away. But when I was alone, yes,

741
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: I was able to feel it. What about you, Gretchen, Yeah, I.

742
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 5: Didn't really have much of an experience either. I threw

743
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 5: up three times. I was like, well did I just

744
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 5: sort of clear it? But I was also in a

745
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 5: place that was intense. It's interesting that you said that

746
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 5: you were sort of pulled pulled out of it by

747
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 5: a friend because where I was was intensely, intensely cold,

748
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 5: and I almost wonder if my body was like you

749
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 5: know what, you can't you can't disengage.

750
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 4: You have to stay in your body because it's just

751
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 4: so cold.

752
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 5: So it is interesting, like this may be some part

753
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 5: of you like stays in the moment and has to

754
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 5: decide like can I actually go this route or do

755
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 5: I need to stay where I am? That's interesting, but

756
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 5: for whatever reason, it sort of didn't take with me.

757
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, And you didn't repeat the experience.

758
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 5: Well, see, I'm I am a real square. I mean,

759
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 5: this is so out of my comfort zone. This is

760
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 5: I'm still astonished that I did it and I worked

761
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 5: up so hard to do it. Then I'm like, I

762
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 5: did it, and I can't I sort of can't get

763
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 5: myself back to that place that I had to work

764
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 5: really hard to get to. So I'm really sort of

765
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 5: sad that I didn't kind of have a bigger experience

766
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 5: because I really wanted to have a big experience, But

767
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 5: I don't feel like I have the emotional wherewithal to

768
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 5: do it again, you know, right?

769
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: Copy that?

770
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, our next question comes from Kaylan Klin. Says,

771
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea, Recently, my best friend introduced me to your podcast,

772
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: and it's helped me reframe so many things in my life.

773
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 3: The help you give is so meaningful, and not just

774
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: to the person you're helping, but all your listeners. My

775
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: problem is this, I've been doing the same thing my

776
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: entire life. I'm twenty eight, but I feel like I

777
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: haven't lived at all. I live in a small town.

778
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: I met a man seventeen years my senior, right out

779
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: of high school and married him. We've been married five

780
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: years now and are happy, but maybe a little bored.

781
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: I've also worked at the same place since I was fifteen,

782
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: working my way up to a general management position out

783
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: a franchise. I don't have a degree, so it feels

784
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: like without going back to school, this is my best

785
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: bet for income. Within the last year, my husband and

786
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: I were close to buying a house and it fell through,

787
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: and so we decided not to do that but instead

788
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: focus on things that bring us joy. I think maybe

789
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: it was a sign that I don't belong in this

790
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 3: small town for the long term. My problem now is now,

791
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: what where can I tweak my life to find passion?

792
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: Do I focus on trying to find a fire in

793
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: my marriage again? Do I reevaluate my career? I feel stuck,

794
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: as though life is passing me by and I'm walking

795
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: blindly through life. And I don't want to feel this way.

796
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: In my thirties, I feel like I meant for so

797
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: much more.

798
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 7: Okay, hik hihikay hi.

799
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: This is our guest, Gretchen Rubin.

800
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 5: Hi.

801
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So, okay, how long are you stuck in this

802
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: town for?

803
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 5: Do we know?

804
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 6: Well?

805
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 7: So he has children from a previous marriage, so when

806
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 7: they finished school, he wants to keep.

807
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: Them in the school district, and when will that be?

808
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: Six years?

809
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're debating or deliberating between infusing some sort

810
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: of fun and liveliness into your marriage or into your

811
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: personal life.

812
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 7: So I feel like when I wrote in after we

813
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 7: decided not to buy a house and that was really disappointing.

814
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 7: And I feel like we were kind of butting heads

815
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 7: because we had to buy a house in the school

816
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 7: district and I the options were so limited, and I

817
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 7: feel like over the last couple of months things haven't

818
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 7: necessarily gotten better. And I was on Instagram just scrawling

819
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 7: and obviously there's the big age difference between him and I,

820
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 7: and there was a post of a girl and it

821
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 7: said like, if you're a man twice my age and

822
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 7: think I'm cute, comment and he fucking commented on it.

823
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: Sorry, excuse me language.

824
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's okay, that's the least of our worries.

825
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 4: What did he comment?

826
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 7: Just high and then like a fire emoji. Oh it's

827
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 7: so gross. It's just gross.

828
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 5: Ugh.

829
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 2: So are you thinking about leaving your marriage or are you?

830
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 4: What do you?

831
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 7: I don't want to, but that whole situation has me

832
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 7: like I was trying to convince myself that six years

833
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 7: is worth it and then we can live this dream.

834
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 7: And now I'm like, I feel so disgusted, almost like

835
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 7: I was a fetish M yeah, I hear you.

836
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 5: Wow, I had a completely different suggestion, but this takes

837
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 5: hibited a new direction.

838
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 4: But maybe to pull back.

839
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 5: Aside from that, I think it's great that you're sort

840
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 5: of admitting to yourself that you're feeling restless generally, like

841
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 5: maybe in your marriage, maybe just generally, maybe in your work,

842
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 5: where you live. And one thing that is helpful to

843
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 5: think about. It's a painful thing to think about, but

844
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 5: can be helpful is whom do you envy when you

845
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 5: look around of the people that you know are like

846
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 5: the fates that you can think of. Is it people

847
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 5: who live in a bigger city. Is it people who

848
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 5: have a more interesting career? Is it people who have

849
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 5: a different kind of marriage? Like, sometimes when we think

850
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 5: about whom we envy, it makes it clear about what

851
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 5: we want, because at least for your initial question, it

852
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 5: sounds like like you weren't sure even what you wanted

853
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 5: or like what area was causing this feeling of restlessness.

854
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 5: And sometimes what happens is people change what's easy to

855
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 5: change or what's obvious, rather than the thing that would

856
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 5: kind of more deeply satisfy them, because it's it's so

857
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 5: hard to know ourselves, and sometimes it's hard to face

858
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 5: things that are scary or intimidating or upsetting. But now

859
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 5: this latest wrinkle seems to have cast the whole thing

860
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 5: in a new light. But is that in fact revealing

861
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 5: or is that new information right?

862
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 7: I feel like when my best friend Harry, when he

863
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 7: put me onto this podcast, I like binge to listen

864
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 7: to it, and I feel like I wanted to start

865
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 7: making changes just based off of everything that's talked about

866
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 7: just on the podcast alone and Chelsea being like the

867
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 7: kind of woman that she is and like independent and strong,

868
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 7: and I felt like I was wasting my time just

869
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 7: going through the motions, and I think people pleasing and

870
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 7: wanting to just make sure that everything else was good.

871
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 7: And I feel like with work, like I fought for

872
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 7: a raise so that made me feel better at work,

873
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 7: and I wanted to put effort into obviously my relationship

874
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 7: and my marriage. And then literally last night this happened

875
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 7: and I haven't really seen him, so I decided to

876
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 7: stay at my mom's. But yeah, I don't know. I

877
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 7: feel like it's the independence part of it. Having basically

878
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 7: never been single.

879
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: I wonder if there are some ways that you can

880
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 3: inject some independence in a small way into your life.

881
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: Like obviously, like you're having this issue with your husband

882
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: right now, and I think that's like worth, you know,

883
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: go have a couple sessions with a therapist and talk

884
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 3: through that. But you do seem fairly happy in your marriage.

885
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: And maybe it's like you start taking weekend trips by yourself,

886
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be like, you know, you're

887
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: going to Timbuktu. You can just go, like go to

888
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: another state, like visit some restaurants. Maybe it's even just

889
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: like I'm going to take it a Friday night and

890
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to go have a date with myself whatever

891
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: that means for you, go have dinner by yourself, see

892
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: a movie, you know whatever. You kind of really love

893
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: to take a drive, even, you know, visit a museum

894
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 3: or a park that you've never been to, take a

895
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 3: hike before you or here we talked a lot about

896
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: novelty and experiencing new things, and there may be some

897
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: really simple ways that you can inject novelty into your

898
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: life that are ways to help you grow as a person,

899
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 3: which I think can only help your marriage grow as well.

900
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think something to bring up in therapy

901
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: is that something that you can do bring him to

902
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: therapy with you.

903
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 3: I could try.

904
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you should, because you're sacrificing a lot

905
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: for this marriage and for his situation. So it's a

906
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: matter of a respect and boundaries and parameters that you

907
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: feel comfortable with that he has to agree to. You've

908
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: uprooted yourself to be in this life and to be

909
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: in this marriage and to be beholden kind of to

910
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: whatever his desires and whims are and his children. So

911
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 2: I think you a deserve more from your marriage, and

912
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: I agree with everything else about your personal life and

913
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: actually investigating ways that you can make yourself happier within

914
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: the marriage that you're in, and then through that work,

915
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: taking weekends to your doing some stuff at night that

916
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: doesn't involve him, you know, joining whatever it is, a

917
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: book club or a wine club or whatever you're interested in,

918
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,959
Speaker 2: just to kind of like cultivate new friendships. I think

919
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 2: if you can do that, you're going to find out

920
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: more of what you want and what makes you happy,

921
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 2: rather than just kind of signing up to this already

922
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: existing situation that you've that you're in, which is totally workable.

923
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like you need to walk out

924
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: the door and leave all your shit, but you need

925
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: to pay more attention to yourself and probably less attention

926
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: to everyone else's needs for a while, and invest a

927
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: little bit in yourself to trying to figure out is

928
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: this really what makes you happy? Is this dynamic going

929
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: to make you happy? You know, you said you feel

930
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: like a fetish, that's not a feeling that's just going

931
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: to disappear, And his behavior has an impact on that

932
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: as well. So I think all of this stuff is important.

933
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 5: One thing I would add is another way to think

934
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 5: about that is identify the problem instead of just sort

935
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 5: of a vague sense of restlessness and uneasiness, Like what

936
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 5: is the problem? Like maybe, as Catherine said, you don't

937
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 5: feel independent, so what would you do to increase your

938
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 5: sense of dependence? Or as Chelsea was saying, maybe you

939
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 5: feel like you don't have a lot of strong relationships,

940
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: so there are things you could do where you could

941
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 5: join or start a group. Then that would give you

942
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 5: more relationships. Maybe you want to invest more in your career.

943
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 5: So it's like, Okay, I want to make, you know,

944
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 5: strides in my career, so I'm going to get some

945
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 5: certain kinds of training. Maybe it's really comes down to

946
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 5: my marriage. So marriage therapy is really the thing that

947
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 5: I need to focus on, because sometimes we have like

948
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 5: a general sense of like, oh, I feel so burned out,

949
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 5: or I feel so unhappy, or I feel like, you know,

950
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 5: I feel stale, or I feel stuck.

951
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 4: It's like that's it's hard to act on that because

952
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 4: it's vague.

953
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 5: But when you're really like, well, what exactly is the problem?

954
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 5: When you really really drill down, then it starts to

955
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 5: feel more possible to take action because you see that

956
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 5: there's something very specific. It could be a lot of things,

957
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 5: but sometimes just really trying to get to the bottom

958
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 5: of what is really the source of this might make

959
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 5: it easier to imagine what the next step would be.

960
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: Right. One other thing too, you know, career wise, I

961
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 3: know you've been in the same job for like it's

962
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 3: the only job I've really ever worked. Yes, It's like yeah,

963
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: and I think even though you don't have a career

964
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: and you live in a small town. Don't sell yourself short,

965
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: and you and I can offline about like some of

966
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 3: the specific things to look into, But I think, look

967
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: at maybe some office jobs around you, some other things,

968
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: and you don't even have to be like I'm quitting

969
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: my job and then I'm going to find a new job.

970
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: Maybe just get curious about, like what else could I

971
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: maybe get Yes, I know so many women who are like,

972
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 3: you know what, I just decided to ask for like

973
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: a crazy amount of money at this job I interviewed

974
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 3: for and they said, yes, you know, And so I

975
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: think I'm curious about, like where could I maybe get

976
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: hired that, Like maybe I don't think I could get

977
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: hired there, but like why not send a resume, tell

978
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 3: them that you're your boss is like right hand person,

979
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: because I know that you are. But like, don't sell

980
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 3: yourself short. Yeah.

981
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, I feel like because I've done the same thing

982
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 7: basically since I got out of high school, I don't

983
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 7: even really know what kind of skills I have. M

984
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 7: I feel like I don't even know what sort of

985
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 7: jobs I would look at that would like best suit me.

986
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. The thing to cling to and to know and

987
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: to say in interviews So she and I talked yesterday

988
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: about like she has been her boss's right hand person.

989
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: He knows that he can kind of like leave the

990
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: store up to her and everything is going to be

991
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 3: totally fine. He barely has to come in. That skill

992
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 3: is not that you can teach. Oh, that skill is

993
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 3: eminently hirable. That is the skill that will get you

994
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 3: promotion after promotion when you decide to go somewhere else.

995
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 3: And again, like, maybe that's not right now, maybe you

996
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 3: want to go get some more training while you're doing

997
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 3: this job that you like know like the back of

998
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 3: your hand. But that skill is the one I want

999
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: you to focus on with your resume and interviews.

1000
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, that's invaluable and like and anybody hiring you

1001
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: will be able to recognize that. So don't minimize that,

1002
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: Like you've only had one job experience. You've had one

1003
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: job experience that taught you a lot about being independent

1004
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: and actually picking up the pieces and covering for the

1005
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: owner or coming for the you know, the head of

1006
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: the company. Like you do have a skill set, So

1007
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: don't minimize that. Exploit it, Like, yes, I can do

1008
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: all of these things on my own. I can keep

1009
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: the ball in the air, so to speak, with your job, like,

1010
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: you can do all of those things, and those can

1011
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 2: all be applied to different jobs, and it's a matter

1012
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: of trial and error in terms of what you're going

1013
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: to find that is interesting to you. And you just

1014
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: have to be laser focused on getting to find that

1015
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: thing you know. You keep trying, you can't after two times,

1016
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: and you're like, well, that didn't interest me, and that

1017
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 2: didn't interest me, I guess I'm done. No, you have

1018
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 2: to be indefatigable in your interest to better your life,

1019
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and the quality of your life,

1020
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: because that will yield the best results. It always does.

1021
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: When you are laser focused on bettering yourself, it will come.

1022
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: It's like you know, anything else that you pay close

1023
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: attention to, you will sharpen your skills and get better

1024
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: at knowing what you like and what you don't like.

1025
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 2: And even every experience that you don't like is close

1026
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: is a step closer to getting to what you do

1027
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: want to do.

1028
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 5: A trick that can help is give advice to someone else.

1029
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: Imagine that you're talking to somebody in your exact situation,

1030
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 5: because research shows we're really good at giving advice to

1031
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 5: other people, and it's much harder take the advice for ourselves.

1032
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 5: So just like, write down what would you tell your

1033
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 5: best friend if she was an exactly your situation, and

1034
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 5: then follow your own advice. Be indefatigable doing what other

1035
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 5: person says. The other person is telling you to do,

1036
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 5: even though it's you.

1037
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so kay, We're gonna have you go sign

1038
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 3: up for three therapy sessions to work through this. Even

1039
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: if you think let's start with one, No, start with three.

1040
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 3: That might deal with it. You might find you need more.

1041
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: But get him to agree to three and get curious

1042
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: about what else is out there, who's hiring, And even

1043
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: if you don't think that you can do it, like

1044
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 3: throw them a resume, see what happens.

1045
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 8: Okay, I will, Good luck, good, thank you, thank you,

1046
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 8: bye b bye.

1047
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: Well.

1048
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 3: Our next question comes from Colleen. Colleen says, Dear Chelsea,

1049
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: I've been a teacher for twenty plus years, most of

1050
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 3: them in my current school district, but I'm thinking about

1051
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: a change. Last year, I got into hot water for

1052
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 3: being quote too inclusive. Unfortunately, this seems to be the

1053
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: direction my district is heading. Another problem is that I've

1054
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 3: been asking for a change of assignment for six years,

1055
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 3: but instead of reassigning me, they hired brand new teachers

1056
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: to fill those positions, not to mention how challenging the

1057
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 3: students are post COVID. I'm feeling defeated and burnt out.

1058
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 3: It may seem obvious that I should leave, but here's

1059
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: my dilemma. I'm at the top of the salary scale

1060
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 3: and the benefits are excellent. If I can make it

1061
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: through twelve more years, I can retire at fifty seven

1062
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: with a really good pension and benefits. My dream is

1063
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: to work for a nonprofit, but the pay is a joke,

1064
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 3: and I won't have the safety nets that I have now,

1065
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 3: great healthcare, sick bank, bereavement leave, etc. My friends and

1066
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: families support me moving on because they just want me

1067
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 3: to be happy, but my husband would rather I stick

1068
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: it out, even though he values my happiness, He's worried

1069
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 3: about our long term stability. I'm struggling in my current position,

1070
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: but starting over is terrifying and unpredictable. I dream of

1071
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 3: doing something rewarding, but I'm afraid I'll regret giving up

1072
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: the security. Colleen, Hi, Colleen, Hey, Colleen, Hi, Hi.

1073
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: This is our special guest Scratch and Reuben today.

1074
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: Hello.

1075
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: Hi, Well, I'm of the school that you have to

1076
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 2: find your own happiness, and I also think when you

1077
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: make a decision that's setting yourself in motion in a

1078
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: different direction. It really doesn't matter which direction you choose.

1079
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: It matters that you are married to the decision that

1080
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: you make and that you're committed to it. And I

1081
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: feel like that's where a lot of happiness comes from,

1082
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: is knowing that you have the ability to make that

1083
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 2: kind of decision. It's a strong one. You're saying, Okay,

1084
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: I'm done with this stability, I'm done with all of this.

1085
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: I am going to trust myself and bet on myself

1086
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: in moving forward. Obviously there are other people to consider here,

1087
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: but I do feel like your personal happiness is paramount

1088
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: to anything else that you're providing for your family, as

1089
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: long as you are not, you know, subjecting them to abuse, neglect,

1090
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: and all of the other negative things that can come

1091
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: with pursuing. I don't mean being selfish in your pursuits.

1092
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: I mean being self fulfilled.

1093
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 3: In your pursuits.

1094
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: So how do you look at that, Like, how do

1095
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: you look at this whole framework of what you put

1096
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: in that letter and what your husband says and his

1097
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: need for stability or his want for stability versus how

1098
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: you're feeling.

1099
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 6: You know, I tend to be kind of anxious, so

1100
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 6: I do appreciate the stability that I have and just

1101
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 6: knowing that, you know, I could take a personal day

1102
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 6: to be on a podcast if I.

1103
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: Need to, like, you know, if things come up.

1104
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 6: I have kind of that steady you know, employment and

1105
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 6: income and all that. But at the same time, you know,

1106
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 6: there's some days where I, you know, cry on my

1107
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 6: way to work, cry my way home. You know, I

1108
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 6: just feel so frustrated that I'm kind of being held

1109
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 6: back from helping kids in the way that I think

1110
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 6: they need to be helped. But maybe something's better than nothing.

1111
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think you're you're probably mourning the loss of

1112
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: your potential, right, Yeah, absolutely, And so that is one

1113
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: of the most important ingredients that a human being can

1114
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: give themselves, is actually like fulfilling your own potential and

1115
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: becoming what you you know, dreamt you would become when

1116
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: you were a little girl.

1117
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 5: Well, one thing I would I would offer is that

1118
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 5: sometimes it's easy to fall into a false choice where

1119
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 5: it's like I either choose stability and stick with a

1120
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 5: job I really dislike for the next twelve years, or

1121
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,479
Speaker 5: I risk everything and follow my dreams. Whereas in fact,

1122
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 5: it's like, are those the only two choices you said

1123
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 5: that you've tried for six years to get another?

1124
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 4: You know, to switch?

1125
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: Like are there other things that you could do that

1126
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 5: would the parts that you like, the stability and the

1127
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 5: benefits and everything, but would allow you to get away

1128
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 5: from the things that you don't want? Like are there

1129
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 5: more avenues within what you're doing now that would take

1130
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 5: you closer to the things that would make you happier

1131
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 5: and away from the things that are bringing you down,

1132
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 5: Because because it's not like stay where I am or

1133
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 5: leave everything, Like what are the options in between? Maybe

1134
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 5: you've exhausted them, but maybe you haven't. Also, you said

1135
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 5: your dream is to work for a nonprofit. Sometimes we

1136
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 5: have an idea of the way something is, and it

1137
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 5: is that way, or sometimes it's not that way. So

1138
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 5: maybe one thing you could do is to volunteer or

1139
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 5: something and get a sense of what it's really like,

1140
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 5: because then it probably will be clear like, Wow, this

1141
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 5: is really worth a big risk because it's exactly what

1142
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 5: I wanted. Or maybe you're like, wow, it's actually there's

1143
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 5: a lot of issues there too, like are there ways

1144
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 5: that you can test it out in a halfway point?

1145
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 5: Because money can't buy happiness, but if put can buy

1146
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 5: a lot of things that buy happiness, and one of

1147
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 5: the things is security and not having to worry about money.

1148
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 5: So it is a big concern to not leave lightly.

1149
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 5: You know, you want to make sure that you're you're

1150
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 5: signing up for what you expect if you do decide

1151
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 5: to make that transition. I don't know how much you

1152
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 5: know about the landscape of where you might go. I

1153
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 5: do volunteer with some local organizations oh great that I do.

1154
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 6: Care about, and I know there are you know, some

1155
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 6: frustrations in those things as well. There's always something yeah, it's.

1156
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 3: Something yeah, no, And I love that idea of like

1157
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 3: seeing what else there is in your current environment. I mean,

1158
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 3: maybe it's even like I don't know if kids are

1159
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: who you want to work with as far as nonprofit goes,

1160
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 3: but maybe it is like creating an answerery program within

1161
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 3: your school that you help run, or maybe it's even

1162
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: taking a leave of absence for a year and diving

1163
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: in and seeing like at the end of the year

1164
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 3: you can decide is this what I really want to

1165
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 3: continue doing or do I really want to go back

1166
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: and make it to my pension.

1167
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 5: Another question I think is really helpful when you sort

1168
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 5: of feel like you can't pros and cons, you just

1169
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 5: kind of can't think you're way through it is to say,

1170
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 5: choose the bigger life?

1171
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 4: What is the bigger life?

1172
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 5: Because it might be like, well, really, the bigger life

1173
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 5: is like having the freedom and having the security and

1174
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 5: knowing what I know, knowing my schedule, and like, actually

1175
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 5: that's the bigger life, or the bigger life is like no,

1176
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 5: I want to step away from all that and towards

1177
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 5: something that I'm really passionate about.

1178
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 4: But sometimes sometimes I found that.

1179
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 5: Like I'd be completely perplexed, and then when I think, well,

1180
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 5: what's the bigger life, it becomes much more obvious.

1181
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 4: So that's a question to consider.

1182
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 6: That's great because you know, one of the things my

1183
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 6: husband will say sometimes is, you know, look at all

1184
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 6: the things you're able to do now, the way you're

1185
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 6: able to donate your time and your money.

1186
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that maybe wouldn't be available.

1187
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 5: It's so easy to take things for granted when we

1188
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 5: have them and we only appreciate them when we lose

1189
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 5: them or we think we might lose them. So you

1190
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 5: might even do the thought exercise of like imagine your

1191
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 5: future self two years from now. Had you done that,

1192
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 5: maybe go through the calendar year and think like, well,

1193
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 5: what would life be like?

1194
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 4: Because it is a very big decision.

1195
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think something people neglect as well is

1196
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 3: both the soft and the hard costs to continuing to

1197
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 3: do something that like makes you feel awful every day,

1198
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: like trying on your way to work. You know, that's

1199
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,959
Speaker 3: not only an emotional cost, but it's also like maybe

1200
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 3: you're doubling up on therapy because you know, because you're

1201
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: feeling so awful about it, and like how you're spending

1202
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 3: your time, you know what your work is doing to

1203
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 3: your insides, So like there are hard costs associated with

1204
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: that as well. There are health costs, often there are

1205
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 3: mental health costs, So I think that's something too weigh

1206
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,959
Speaker 3: as well. Well, Chelsea, anything else we want to say

1207
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 3: to Colleen as she makes a decision here.

1208
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I, yeah, you know, I would really just

1209
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 2: sit with yourself and really try to listen to what

1210
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 2: is going to be the best outcome for you and

1211
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: not make any rash decisions, but really like kind of

1212
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: investigate and really listen to yourself. You know, your relationship

1213
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: with yourself is so important and sometimes we get confused

1214
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: about what that means. But I mean, being truly happy

1215
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: in this life I think is like a great pursuit.

1216
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: I mean, we only get this chance, so you may

1217
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: as well make the most of it. You know, you

1218
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: don't want to have regrets when you're older. You don't

1219
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: want to have regrets when you're dead or dying or

1220
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 2: sick or any of that. You want to think, Wow,

1221
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 2: like I'm proud of who I was, and I'm proud

1222
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 2: of like the chances that I took. So I would

1223
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: say take that with you. And obviously you're not going

1224
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 2: to do anything crazy or like you know, it's not

1225
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: like you're going to become like a skydiver. It's not

1226
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: like you know, your your thoughts and your feelings are

1227
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 2: so rational and now it's like time to really examine

1228
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 2: them and and and get to a place where you

1229
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: are confident in making the next step where it's not

1230
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: a question, it's actually like the only it's the only answer.

1231
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: So does is that helpful at all to you?

1232
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot to think about.

1233
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 6: And you know, everyone I've talked to is you know,

1234
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 6: there's there's, like you said, the pros and the cons

1235
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 6: and my happiness is important, but you know, will I

1236
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 6: get that I be able to be happy without some

1237
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 6: of the other things that come along with that stability piece.

1238
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 4: So kind of hoping you just tell.

1239
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 3: Me to do we just decide for you.

1240
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 5: Well, you know what what you could do sometimes is

1241
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 5: you flip a coin and then if it's like if

1242
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 5: you're like, no, I want to flip again and you're like, oh, well,

1243
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 5: then you know what you want. Because one way you're like, oh,

1244
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 5: I'll take heads, but then you're like, no, let's see

1245
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 5: two out of three. It's like okay, you know now

1246
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 5: you know what you really want.

1247
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Or also give yourself a timeline,

1248
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: say like, okay, if in six months I'm still feeling

1249
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 3: this way and I just can't stand it, then like,

1250
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 3: I'm not going to renew for the next year. You know,

1251
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna look for something else or just be looking

1252
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 3: for the other thing, and you know, when the right

1253
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: thing comes up, then you'll know.

1254
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 4: Thank you. And is there another position that you could get?

1255
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 5: I mean maybe you're not going to get your top

1256
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 5: of the pay scale, but that you would have other

1257
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 5: things that are important to you too, Like again the

1258
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 5: false choice, It might be maybe you can get some

1259
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 5: of the things that are important to you in a

1260
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 5: new position as well. So maybe the sacrifice isn't as

1261
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 5: great as you might expected to be in terms of

1262
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 5: like scheduling freedom, which sounds like it's very important to you.

1263
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 6: Something could come up so I can I can hang

1264
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 6: around and see keep my eye open for something new

1265
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,959
Speaker 6: and see what's you know around in my current job.

1266
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 3: And I think you want to be told to leave

1267
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 3: your job, don't you?

1268
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 4: I think so.

1269
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 2: I I think you should also just send an email

1270
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: out to like your closest friends and people that you trust,

1271
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 2: say like, you're looking for a career change, and if

1272
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: anyone you know and like, cast a net to like

1273
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: see what pops up, because you never really know, and

1274
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: people don't they under use that your whole network of

1275
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: people are there and you never know what somebody has

1276
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 2: you know for you, maybe an opportunity or they know someone,

1277
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 2: or they just heard about a job that may be

1278
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: of interest to you. But I think as long as

1279
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: you put all your feelers out there. It's like when

1280
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 2: they people talk about trying to meet a guy and

1281
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: no one's doing anything about it. It's like you have

1282
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: to be you have to be forward facing, like you

1283
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 2: have to be activated in the direction that you want

1284
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: to go to get some results. It's not just going

1285
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: to someone's not going to knock on your door and

1286
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: be like, do you want this job? It's perfect for you,

1287
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 2: Like be productive about it.

1288
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's great advice.

1289
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 5: Research shows that we're often more benefited by loose ties

1290
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 5: because the people who you have strong ties to basically

1291
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 5: know the same things you know. But it's like the

1292
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 5: friend of your cousin or that guy that you used

1293
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 5: to work with ten years ago who you ran into

1294
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 5: at the grocery store. These loose ties are often where

1295
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 5: you find new opportunities because they're connected to worlds that

1296
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 5: you don't already have access to. So this idea of

1297
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 5: casting a very wide net and kind of mentioning it

1298
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 5: broadly is really really useful. That's that's a very consistent

1299
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 5: finding in the research.

1300
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 6: Okay, that's definitely something I hadn't thought about.

1301
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.

1302
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: Okay, Well keep us posted too, let us know what

1303
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: happens in the next few months with you, Colleen.

1304
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, Luck.

1305
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much. I love you all.

1306
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1307
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're

1308
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: going to be right back.

1309
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 4: Okay.

1310
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: Well, thank you Gretchen so much for your insight on

1311
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: happiness and remaining that way and pursuing it. And we

1312
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 2: appreciate your time.

1313
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 5: Well, thanks so much. I so enjoyed the chance to

1314
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 5: talk to you and to your callers. Okay, take care,

1315
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 5: thanks so much.

1316
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, so for stand up. My next two shows

1317
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: in Vancouver are March twenty ninth. There are still tickets

1318
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 2: available for March thirtieth in Vancouver if you're in the

1319
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: Vancouver area, so get your tickets before they run out.

1320
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: That's March twenty ninth.

1321
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 4: It sold out.

1322
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: March thirtieth tickets available, and then I'm coming to Salt

1323
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 2: Lake City on April fourth, and I'm coming to Denver,

1324
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: Colorado on April fifth. Tickets are still available for those two. Maricopa,

1325
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 2: Arizona is April twelfth, and then Brooks, California is April thirteenth.

1326
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: And we added a second show in Sydney, and we

1327
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 2: added a second show in Prior Lake, Minnesota, which is

1328
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: now going to be May twenty fourth.

1329
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: We added the Santa Barbara Bowl, which.

1330
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: Is so fun. I performed there last year. That's August seventeenth,

1331
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: the Santa Barbara Bowl. We ended a second show at

1332
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: Santa Rosa on August second, and we added two dates

1333
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: at Hawaii, guys. I'm coming to Hawaii on July nineteenth.

1334
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: To Cahulu Kahulu.

1335
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I know I was saying that wrong. And

1336
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 2: then I'm coming on July twenty at to Honolulu. And

1337
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 2: I just added another date on August first Auburn, Washington.

1338
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: So and all my Australia and New Zealand dates are up,

1339
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: and I will be announcing a European tour shortly, so

1340
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 2: I will be coming there. And I'm coming to Oklahoma.

1341
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 2: I have two dates in Oklahoma May third, which is

1342
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 2: my mother's birthday, Norman, Oklahoma, and May fourth, I will

1343
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: be in.

1344
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: Thackerville, Oklahoma.

1345
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: So Oklahomians, Oklahoma's Oklahom's come side.

1346
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

1347
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 3: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1348
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 3: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

1349
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 3: and engineered by BREA executive producer Katherine Law and be

1350
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 3: sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com