1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and President Biden is sending tanks to Ukraine. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: We have one heck of a show for you today. 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Senator Chris Murphy stops by to tell us the unseen 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: reality of what's really happening at the US border. Then 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: we'll talk to the Washington Post Jeff Stein about what 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the options are in the debt ceiling negotiation. But first 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: we have former United States Senator Al Franken. Welcome to 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Al Franken, Thank you. Now we just talk 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: real fast. Yeah, we really Well, the hope is that 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: people are listening to this on ten thousand speed and 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: so they can barely understand what we're saying. Okay, well 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk really fast, So slow it down, everybody 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: that's right, listen to us on point five. Actually listen. 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: When I listened to podcasts, I always listen to them 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: at one point seven five because I feel like I'm 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: getting so much done. Well, you know, it's funny. I 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: am a kind of a slow talker. I really am. 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: It's just the way I am, and so I me 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I did um an interview with Walter Mondale on my 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: podcast Wonderful Wonderful Man. But you know, Walter talk pretty 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: slow too, and so I and I'm a slow talker. 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: So I I did listen to us at the thing 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: at one point five or something and it was perfect, right, Well, 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: there you go. So that's the suggestion. Definitely listen to 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: this at one point five. So I wanted to talk 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: to you about the gift that keeps on giving the 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy Congress, or the gift that keeps on scaring 30 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: the ship out of us. Well, that is also true. 31 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: I mean that is I think the knife's edge about 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: all of this. We know it's bad for democracys. In 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: the early midterms when there were some Democrats who supported 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: these fringe MAGA candidates, and I always felt like it 35 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: was really a dangerous game that I didn't think was 36 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: worth taking the chance. Oh you're you're saying trying to 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: get them nominated in the primaries, you know, candidates like 38 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: Carrie Lake and Don Baldock. I mean, thank god those 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: guys didn't win. And I think this is the same situation. 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: There is damage being done by this, even if it 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: ultimately undermines Republicans, the ones that lost, the really extreme 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: candidates that loss that I guess I didn't like the 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: strategy of let's take as supporting the worst of them, 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: and maybe it worked once or twice, but that's just 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: to me advertising the worst, and I think it influences 46 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: people badly. I just think you I hated that strategy 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: and and I haven't looked at it has did it work? 48 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Did it work anywhere? It ultimately worked? But again, you 49 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: can't calculate how much giving a carry Lake a larger 50 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: platform could theoretically undermine democracy in the long game. And 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got carried like now. I mean, I 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: think one of the really interesting things about MAGA is 53 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: that they continue to promote the people who have all 54 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: lost horribly. Okay, well, I think the ones that lost 55 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: really are the ones that in especially heartening was And 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: I have a pack. I have a pack called mid 57 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: West Values Pack, which I've had since two thousand five, 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: that support Democrats and we put a lot of money 59 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: into the Secretaries of State races. And wife said this 60 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: the day after the election. She said, the American people 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: said stop it, stop it, stop this chaos, and stop 62 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: this denial, and I think the MAGA bases the MAGA base, 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: and they're going to vote for those people. But to me, 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: what people are staring at, what they're looking at is 65 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: the MAGA crazy. Is that McCarthy has put on these 66 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: committees that are people gonna be looking at and going like, no, no, 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: we don't want this, We want you to figure out 68 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: how to actually govern. Yeah. I mean it doesn't seem 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: like policy is at all interesting to any of these people. No, No, 70 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: what's interesting to them is getting on TV and raising 71 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: money doing that and also disrupting. And of course you 72 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: mentioned the dead ceiling or did you or maybe yeah, 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: well I want to talk about the dead ceiling because 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: it's so sexy. Well no, I'm just kidding, but it 75 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: is it. It actually is a big fucking problem. Excuse 76 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: my friend. It's the scariest problem. And I think your 77 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: listeners know what we're talking about. Of course, and this 78 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: happened when I was there in two thousand eleven. They 79 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: held the gun to her head and we actually negotiated 80 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: with them, and I think that was a mistake because 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: every time once you do that, they say, oh, I see. 82 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: Every time we get to the death ceiling, and this 83 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: is money we've already spent. Right The way that McCarthy 84 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: talks about it on the news is very disingenuous. There 85 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: was a time to negotiate it, and it's not now. 86 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: This is in saying because we came close in two 87 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, as you may recall, really went to 88 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: the eleventh hour and we didn't go over the cliff, 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: but we came close enough that our bonds are downgraded 90 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: by standards and poor and cost Americans billions and billions 91 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: of dollars. These guys, the people who leveraged their votes 92 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: to be able to hold McCarthy hostage, they're the ones 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: that would go over the cliff. I thought McConnell was 94 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: very smart when he said, don't look at me, He 95 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: pointed to the house. They're the ones that are going 96 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 1: to have to negotiate. And I think the American people 97 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: are looking at these guys and going there crazy. I 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: think this crisis comes up around June, is what I 99 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 1: keep hearing. June July. They don't totally know when it does. 100 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: I think they'll have been a drumbeat up to it, 101 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: where McCarthy is going to have to reach out to 102 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: reasonable and there must be what a third on their caucus. 103 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: This is the thing I wanted to actually bring up 104 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: to you, and I wanted to reach you. This is 105 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: Aaron Blake from the Washington Post had a piece, and 106 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: I think this is such an important data point. He said, 107 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: the Freedom Caucuses twenty percent of the House GOP, but 108 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: they will be thirty eight percent of the oversight, percent 109 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: of judiciary of this of the Select COVID Panel, whatever 110 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: that is where they try to put Dr Faucci in jail, 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: and of a panel on quote unquote weaponizing of the government. 112 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: And again I think the American people are looking at 113 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: this going like, that's not what we want. Of Americans 114 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: are vaccinated. The people dying of COVID, A large percentage 115 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: of them are Republicans. There's an interesting stat which is 116 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: of the fifteen states where the highest percentage of people 117 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: who died were Republicans, fourteen voted for Trump of those 118 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: states and the fifteenth of Georgia. And I'm kind of 119 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: think that like eleven thousand, seven d eighty Republican Georgians 120 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: died like the month before the election in two thousand twenty, right. 121 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I have always asked this question to guests 122 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: on this podcast, and I never get the answer that 123 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: is definitive because I don't think people really know. But 124 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: the question is, like, so many people in this country 125 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: have been affected by COVID, right, you know, we have 126 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: more than a million people in this country died of COVID. 127 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Then we have people with long COVID, then we have 128 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: people who have relatives who have died of COVID. I mean, 129 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: it's such a large quantity that in my mind, I mean, 130 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: if you think of millions of people in this country 131 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: have been touched by this virus that the Republican Party 132 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: said was nothing and not to worry about. I think 133 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: what they're now going to say is that Fauci caused that. 134 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: That they're going to be going a gain of function, right, right, 135 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: and so, which is a thing it's not related to 136 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: causing the virus, though they're gonna say it actually did 137 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: cause it, which is it's a technology to change viruses, 138 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: to study them to see how to eradicate them if 139 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: they morph into more dangerous ones. And then the dangerous 140 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: one got out of the lab. And that's going to 141 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: be their story that they're giving. And I hope they 142 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: call Faucci, Faucci. I think Americans who aren't Maga really 143 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: trust Faucci and trust science. You know, it does seem 144 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: to me what we saw in these midrums, and we 145 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: were just talking about this was there was. It's certainly 146 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: in purple states, a real rejection of the stupid. I mean, 147 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: Michigan is a great example, like those three women won 148 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: by a lot. But even Wisconsin, Wisconsin is is very tight, 149 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: very down the middle state and jerrymandered up the wazoo. 150 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: There was some Kennedy School study that basically compared democracy 151 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin into the Congo because they're jerrymander so badly 152 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: that for Democrats to get even in the state legislature, 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: they have to win by like ten points if you 154 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: look at a statewide race like the governor and the 155 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: governor one by four points by being boring. He said, wow, 156 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: is he boring? He boy, he accomplished that. Remember he 157 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: hosted at Wisconsin, hosted the virtual convention, and I remember 158 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: he gave like a welcoming thing, and I went like, 159 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: holy mackerel. But he's a great guy. And Ben Wickler, 160 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Ben, he's been on 161 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: this podcast he's amazing. Ben worked with the lies and 162 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: Lyne liars who tell them when he was a student 163 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: at Harvard. And uh is now the chairman of the 164 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Democratic Party in Wisconsin. And they have a big, big 165 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: election coming up in April for the Supreme Court because 166 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: this will decide majority on the Supreme Court in Wisconsin, 167 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: and they can undo a lot of what was started 168 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: to be done back in you know, after two thousand 169 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: and ten. What happened two thousand ten in Michigan is 170 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: an interesting story because in two thousand and ten, we 171 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: had passed the A C A. Right, the A C 172 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: A was amazingly unpopular because a lot of it was 173 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: about lying about what it was, you know, down panels 174 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: that you know, I'm gonna pull pull the plug on Grandma, 175 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, and and people didn't know what it was. 176 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: And we lost. We we lost on the A C 177 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: A until two thousand eighteen. We lost, we lost, and 178 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: and when we won in two thousand eighteen big time, 179 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: because they tried to repeal it. And then when they 180 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: did that, people saw what it was and people realize, 181 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, free healthcare. Well, this is this is 182 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: guarantee that you know that I'm not going to be 183 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: rejected because I have a pre existing condition, and when 184 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: Republicans tried to they didn't guarantee that, and people actually 185 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: got to see what it was when it was almost 186 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: taken away. But until then we just kept losing on it, 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: and and we lost big on in two thousand tens 188 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: it passed and they were lying about it. People didn't 189 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: know what it was. They just were buying the lies. 190 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: And so there are states like Wisconsin, in Ohio and 191 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Michigan that all went very red in those 192 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: elections and the state legislatures. Look over and the fact 193 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: that now Michigan has a state legislature that is run 194 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: that is that is all blue and as well and 195 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: the women, you know, the Secretary of State and the 196 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: attorney general and the governor are all all women. That 197 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: is a a huge, huge transformation. But we still have 198 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and in Ohio states that are just been 199 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: jerrymandered so badly that it's impossible for Republicans to be 200 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: to lose the state legislature. I wanted to ask you 201 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: because we're talking about state parties, and that I have 202 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: quite a bee in my bonnet about this. During these 203 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: mid terms, we saw Democrats really overperformed, really killed it, 204 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: with the exception of two states Florida, which, by the way, 205 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: I had been hearing what a shit show it was there, 206 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: and New York State. I mean, what the funk man? 207 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: I blame the Jews. This is funny because we're both Jewish. 208 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: That's why it's funny, folks. Do you see we're kidding? 209 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: Comedy plus yes, continue New York. That's a heartbreak because 210 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: what happened in New York was Democrats wrote a map 211 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: and it was like one Democrat who wrote this map 212 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: that was so extreme. It was jerrymandered for us, right, 213 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: and as they do in the states I'm talking about Ohio, Wisconsin, 214 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. It's Republicans do everywhere. Yeah, and then we 215 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: were doing it. It was so partisan the way it 216 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: was drawn that the New York State Supreme Court said no, 217 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: which is a pretty conservative state court thanks to Andrew Cuomo. 218 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: But continue, yes, Well, what they did was they probably 219 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: drew some pretty you know, close to what you would 220 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: do is fair. And then we kept we lost a 221 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: number of seats. We could control the House if it 222 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: weren't for California and New York and but part of 223 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: the New York I had my judiciary council. Josh Riley 224 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: ran in New York nineteen and he ran ahead of 225 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: Hoco by like six points and lost by one. Blossie 226 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: kind of mentioned this in some sort of a peak 227 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: that New York governor may have cost us the house 228 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: because you know, and Josh was, I hope he runs 229 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: again because he's he was my judiciary council. They ran ads, 230 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: and this is when I trace like where we started 231 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: to lose our democracy. Citizens United is a big part 232 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: of this. And there's so much money run against him 233 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: in ads that were about crime, and he was my 234 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: judiciary council, and they kept basically saying he wants to 235 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: defund the police. When I was in judiciary and he 236 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: was my counsel, we funded the police. We did something 237 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: called you know what crisis intervention training is, right, what christis. 238 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Intervention training is basically training cops to recognize when they're 239 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: in a situation that's fueled by either mental health problems 240 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: or drugs or something like that, and how to defuse situations, 241 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: de escalate. And this money had expired and we I 242 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: and I didn't a bipartisan way with corn and we 243 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: got lots of funding for Christ's intervention training and also 244 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: for bulletproof vest. This is what I did. And they 245 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: kept running these ads, which is Judge Riley and his 246 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: his allies want to defund the police and then well 247 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: he didn't, but his allies suppose whoever they are, and 248 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: then they would roll this rolling super over him defund 249 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: The police would be over his face and they would 250 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: darken his face and they would slow down some video 251 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: of him to make him look sinister. And this is 252 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: like the least sinister person in the world, heart of goal. 253 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: He's from the district, grew up in the district. He uh, 254 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: maybe the purest guy I know. And they but there's 255 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: tons and tons of this dark money. Of course, we 256 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: tried to have at least have disclosure of dark money, 257 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: and Republicans fought that this you know, that's when we 258 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: that's part of what sent us down this this road 259 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: that in Shelby County and all that stuff of our 260 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: democracy being under under threat, and of course what McConnell 261 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: did on the Supreme Court. Right. Thank you so much, 262 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: Al Franken for joining us. I hope you'll come back absolutely. Molly, 263 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: thank you Chris Murphy is the junior Senator from Connecticut. 264 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so 265 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: much for having me. We're delighted. You know, we've just 266 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: had two mass shootings in rapid succession. You have been 267 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: really on the front lines of trying to legislate. Where 268 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: are we I mean, first of all, we're in this 269 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: place where the country pays attention to the epidemic of 270 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: gun violence only when there are mass shootings. I know 271 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: we belabor this point, but it bears repeating that every 272 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: single day we're losing a hundred and ten plus people 273 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: to gun violence. Most of those are suicides, homicides, accidental shootings. 274 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: These mass shootings are awful, but that's not the actual 275 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: story of what's happening in this country at large. Where 276 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: are we? Were in a race? Um, we are passing 277 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: more anti gun violence legislation than ever states surpassing laws. 278 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: We passed the first federal law of substance in thirty years. 279 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: But we're in a race against a flood of guns 280 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: into our communities. You know, in ten years ago, eight 281 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: thousand guns were sold on an annual basis. Today that 282 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: numbers twenty thousand guns, and so there is just a 283 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: ubiquity of firear in our communities today such that ordinary 284 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: disputes and beeps between kids are turning into gunfights. People 285 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: whose brains are breaking have easy access to weapons. Uh, 286 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: And that's our issue right now. The laws are getting 287 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: better in most places, but the number of firearms out 288 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: there is devastatingly high, and that's really driving the higher 289 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: rates of gun violence, I think, as much as anything else. 290 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: So how can you get rid of all the guns 291 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: or at least, you know, decrease the number of gun sales. 292 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if that's the issue, well, I was, and 293 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: I think there's a very broad conversation that we should 294 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: have in this country about the sort of fetish around 295 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: guns that exists and whether or not we're comfortable as 296 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: a nation being, you know, so cavalier about our relationship 297 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: with weapons, whether we're comfortable continuing to romanticize firearms. But 298 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: we also know that laws, you make a difference, even 299 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: with all of these weapons in circulation. So Connecticut, you know, 300 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. 301 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: Let's take a state like Florida, some of the loosest. 302 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: Conneidica has a gun violence rate that's four hundred percent lower, 303 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: maybe lower than Florida. That's stunning. Even with the loose 304 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: national laws. What we know is that if you're just 305 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: a little bit more careful about who can get their 306 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: hands on a gun, if you stop the assault weapons 307 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: from being sold in your gun stores, you can save 308 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: a lot of lives. So you know, to me, it's 309 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: just an invitation to continue to change the laws. It's 310 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 1: not going to take all those guns out of circulation. 311 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: But a lot of these crimes, especially the mass crimes, 312 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: are committed by people who bought the guns, you know, 313 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks, a couple of months of 314 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: the crime. So if you're if you stop selling them 315 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: to the wrong people, you actually can stop a lot, 316 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: not all, but a lot of these um of the shootings, 317 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of evidence and especially with a lot 318 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: of these shootings that there's a domestic violence component. And 319 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: I mean we see this again and again and again 320 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: with women, you know. I mean even there was some 321 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: recently a case, you know where this guy murdered his 322 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: whole family. I mean, this is something we see a lot. 323 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: I mean, is there any way to connect any of 324 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: this gun legislation to preventing domestic violence. You know, what 325 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: we know is that if you have a gun in 326 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: your house, you are five to ten times more likely 327 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: to be the victim of a domestic violence murder. And 328 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: we really started to address this problem finally last year. 329 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: So in the gun safety bill that we passed in 330 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: the summer of two two, again the first substantial gun 331 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: safety bill that passed Congress in thirty years, we closed 332 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: something called the boyfriend loophole. There is a big loophole 333 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: in the background checks law. It basically allowed for domestic 334 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: abusers who committed misdemeanors um not felonies, misdemeanors to continue 335 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: to own their guns and buy new guns. The problem 336 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: is many serious domestic violence crimes that really are felonies 337 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: are pled down to misdemeans. So there are just tens 338 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: of thousands of men out there who have committed vicious 339 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: acts of domestic violence, who can buy guns and who 340 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: can keep their guns. That is over so all across 341 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: the country. Those people are being dispossessed of their guns. Now, 342 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: that's going to take a while for law enforcement to 343 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: go through that process, but it will be the most 344 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: substantial thing we've done to try to depress the rates 345 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: of gun violence connected to domestic violence. Do you think 346 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: there's a chance for an assault weapon VAN or something 347 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: to that effect ever being you know, passed on a 348 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: federal level or now. I don't think there's a chance. 349 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: I think it's a certainty. I see, um, the anti 350 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: gun violence movement, as you know, one of the great 351 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: social change movements of this country's history, not unlike the 352 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: civil rights movement of the marriage equality movement. We have 353 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: really only been in existence for ten years, right. We 354 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: really are a creature of Sandy Hook, And in those 355 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: ten years we've made pretty substantial progress. We are now 356 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: more powerful than the gun lobby, and so I think 357 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: we're on a trajectory through which we will ultimately get 358 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: universal background checks and a ban on assault weapons. It 359 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: might take another five to ten years to get there, 360 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: but I just think the American public have made up 361 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: their mind that the current laws don't work. I think 362 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: the gun lobby is decreasing rapidly in its impact. I 363 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: think our movement is growing stronger, and ultimately, I think 364 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: democracy gets its way when seventy eight percent of Americans 365 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: have made up their minds. So is it in the 366 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: next two years. Probably not, but I just think we're 367 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: on a path to get things like an assault weapons 368 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: ban back on the books. So I want to ask 369 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: you this mid term election was sort of I found 370 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: it very comforting, and I thought that a lot of 371 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: voting that happened was people in swing states rejecting trumps 372 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: Um and the extremism. You are. In the Senate, there 373 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: are some really wacky, trumpy senators who have come in. 374 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean they've come from very red states. A lot 375 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: of the really scary ones did not get elected from 376 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: the swing states. But there are still I mean, you 377 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: still have to work with people that, I mean whether 378 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: or not they believe the stuff they've said, some pretty 379 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: appalling stuff when they were running for office. How do 380 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: you do that? Yeah, the Senate is very different than 381 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: the House right now because you have fewer of these 382 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: wackos in the Senate than in the House. But the 383 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: problem is the Republican Party isn't really sending dealmakers compromise 384 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: makers to the Senate any longer. And so if you 385 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: look at the last couple of classes of new Republicans editors, 386 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: they are filled largely with people that were endorsed by 387 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, people that are on the most extreme wing 388 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: of the party. Now you still have a sort of 389 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: legacy Republican senators that want to do deals, and some 390 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: Republican senators who kind of hadn't been interested in deals 391 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: in the past are more interested in them now because 392 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: they don't want that crazy wing to take over. So 393 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: we still have the opportunity to legislate in the Senate. 394 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: And the good news is that, you know, somebody liked 395 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: John Cornyn or Tom Tillois who maybe ten years ago 396 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: or five years ago, you know, weren't part of a 397 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: lot of these bipartisan groups working on compromises to big 398 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: issues like guns and immigration, are now more interested in 399 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: doing that because they really are, you know, worried that 400 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: the you know, more recalcitran, more extreme wing of the 401 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: party is taking over. So there's been an interesting reaction 402 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: from some Republicans to this phenomenon of Trump endorsed candidates 403 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: taking over. It's an amazing thing because you know, they 404 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: they can't win, right, I mean, they're very unpopular. It's 405 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: just that you have this primary system where you get 406 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: these zalads who then can't win in a general, which, 407 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: by the way, I'm not complaining, but I mean the people, 408 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, you do have this intractable situation. Yeah, and listen, 409 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: none of it's good for our country. You know, We've 410 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: got to find a way such that people who want 411 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: government to work are rewarded. I mean, it's this interesting 412 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: phenomenon in which in in our party, you know, our 413 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: primary voters, you know, are still interested in pragmatists, right, 414 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Joe Biden ran as a pragmatist. There were 415 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: candidates way to the left, candidates much more ideologically strident 416 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: than him, and our party decided that we want to 417 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: send somebody to Washington's gonna work with Republicans. Republican primary 418 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: voters seem to the opposite right. I mean, they have 419 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: no interest in electing or nominating candidates that are gonna 420 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: work with Democrats. And it's a by product of the 421 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: Republican Party, you know, becoming devoid of ideas. You know, 422 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: over the last twenty years in my sort of political lifetime, 423 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: I've seen the Republican Party go from a party of 424 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: bad ideas to a party of no ideas other than 425 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: the destruction of government. Right, that's sort of the only 426 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: idea that's left in the Republican Party is just kill government, 427 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: just strip it down to its bare bones. And the 428 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: result of that is that the only candidates that can 429 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: win their primaries are the candidates that are literally running 430 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: for office in order to destroy government from within. Yes, agreed, 431 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about you went 432 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: to the Southern border. I feel like every time I 433 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: say the word southern border, I don't even want to 434 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: say the word Southern border because I feel like it's 435 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: we're going into a Fox News talking point, right, I mean, 436 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: for them. But I do want to say that in 437 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: my mind, we have this very tight labor market. Everyone 438 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: wants people to come and work. We have this immigration 439 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: crisis is because of Republicans inability to legislate and to 440 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: make a deal. But what did you see there when 441 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: you went there? Talk to me about it so well? 442 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's just quickly like two sides 443 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: to this. Right. There's that side you identified, which is 444 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: the economic and moral imperative for America to continue it's 445 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: generous immigration policy, the economic comparative type labor market. Economic 446 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: greatness historically in this country dependent on bringing smart people, 447 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: industrious people to hear from everywhere and then there's the 448 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: moral imperative, which is that the genius of this nation 449 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: is our sort of multi ethnic, multi religious, multi racial legacy, 450 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: and let's continue that because that's a great part of America. 451 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: But the flip side of it is that in a 452 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: multi ethnic nation, in a nation that's a melting pot, right, 453 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: that is, it is sort of just made for conflict, 454 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: made for tension. And so what are the ways to 455 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: sort of keep our cohesion is to be clear about 456 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: what the pathways are to become part of our nation, 457 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: to become part of the club. And when it becomes 458 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: really confusing as to what those pathways are and they 459 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: just don't look just and fair any longer, it kind 460 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: of tears apart at a country that is already a 461 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: little difficult to stitch together. And so I do think 462 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: it makes sense to sort of acknowledge that the current 463 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: system is not working and fix it. And I think 464 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: that's good for American cohesion. I think it's also good 465 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,959 Speaker 1: for the economy. And so what I see, you know, 466 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 1: a just way more people coming across the border than 467 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: we've seen in a long time, in a different way, 468 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, folks not trying to sneak across as much 469 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: as they are now just crossing the border, waiting for 470 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: border patrol to come and find them and applying for asylum, 471 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: knowing that that asylum process is going to take four 472 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: to five six years, So even if they don't qualify, 473 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: they get four or five six years of working in 474 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: the United States and sending money back home. That doesn't 475 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: feel fair to many Americans. But then also a crazy 476 00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: new diversity of geography, meaning in Yuma, Arizona, next seconds 477 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: of the sixth most frequent crossers, there were Russians showing 478 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: up at the Arizona border and Mexicans. Right now, I 479 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: had no idea number one. And also, don't Republicans love Russians? Well, 480 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: and we're not exactly you know, sure who all these 481 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: Russians are, but yes they do. But there's there's Becky's, 482 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: there's Indians. It just shows you sort of how unstable 483 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: the world is that people are willing to come here 484 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: through that pathway from all over. But it also means 485 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: the job of the border patrol and the immigration this 486 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: is a lot harder right now, and so you've just 487 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: got to find a way to sort of manage these 488 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: more diverse and bigger flows in a better way. That 489 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: probably means processing these asylum cases a lot faster, which 490 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: means more resources, which is something Republicans don't tend to 491 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: be interested in. But that's, you know, one of the 492 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: clear takeaways. They want to spend money on the southern border, 493 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: but they don't really want to spend money on processing 494 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: and having staffing. They're right, they want to spend it 495 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: on like a wall with lots of spikes. Yeah, and 496 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: like the wall with spikes doesn't work. I mean, it's 497 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: just you know, I mean, we we went down to 498 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: the border, and you know, we saw the places where 499 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: you go around and over and under and through and um. 500 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is, so long as 501 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: we have an asylum process, everybody who being persecuted or 502 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: has a fear for their life from the country that 503 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: they're coming from as a right to apply for asylum 504 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: in the United States, no matter if there's a wall 505 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: or not. And so unless Republicans are proposing to end 506 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: our asylum wall, which some are but most aren't, then 507 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: you're still going to have these huge numbers presenting themselves 508 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: at the border because they have the right to show 509 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: up to a portive entry. The gap in the wall 510 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: and say I want to apply for asylum. So the 511 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: wall just doesn't matter any longer because it's not necessarily 512 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: people sneaking into the country. It's people showing up and 513 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: turning themselves over to border patrol and applying for asylum. 514 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: So you've just got to figure out how to reform 515 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: the asylum process. That's the biggest problem. And there's no 516 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: appetite on the Republican side to do that whatsoever. Well, 517 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: maybe there is, there's some of the Senate. Let me 518 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: say there's not. They may not be appetite in the House, 519 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: but there may be appetite in the Senate because you know, 520 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: what you're talking about is trying to move these asylum 521 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: cases through the system faster. And so for Republicans they 522 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: like that because it is true that some of the 523 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: people who are waiting for the asylum claim for four 524 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: or five years end up staying in the country beyond 525 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: their legal ability. But for us, it also is better 526 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: to just have these claims, you know, litigated faster, so 527 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: that people know, you know, earlier, whether they are approved, 528 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: and you know, then they can actually stay in the 529 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: country legally work instead of retreat into the shadows it's 530 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: such an impossible situation. I really appreciate you coming on. 531 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: I have one last question. You're running for re election. 532 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: I am running for re election. I'm not doing like 533 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: a big splash the announcement or anything. I love this job, 534 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: and you know, luckily, I think I'm getting better at 535 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: it as time it was on. This will be your 536 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: third term, right, it will be my third term, and 537 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, I feel really lucky to have the job, 538 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: and I'll feel really lucky if people give me a 539 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: shot to do it for another six years. Your crew 540 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: is kind of Brian Schotts, right, I mean, like bigger 541 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: than Brian shots. I mean, he's not like he's not 542 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: enough to meet a fulfilling life for the Senate. So 543 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: I feel like him and Corey book Are are your squad. Yeah, 544 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: Booker and Heinrich and Jilla Brand, those are kind of 545 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: the crew that you know, we came in around the 546 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: same time together and have spent a lot of time 547 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: over the over the years. Yeah. Over the last year though, 548 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: I have spent you know, probably more time with John 549 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: Corny and Tom Taillis and Kirsten Cinema between the gun 550 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: Bill and the trips to the boarder than I have 551 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: with Brian and Cory and Martin. But yes, sort of 552 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: my original you know friends sets. When I need to 553 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: move a couch, you know that I can't carry alone, 554 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm calling Brian Corey. Thank you so much for joining us. 555 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: Chris Murphy thanks. I know you, our dear listeners are 556 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: very busy and you don't have time to sort through 557 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: the hundreds of pieces of pundentry tweak. This is why 558 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: every week I put together a newsletter of my five 559 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: favorite articles on politics. If you enjoy the podcast, you 560 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: will love having this in your inbox every Friday. So 561 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: sign up at Fast Politics pod dot com and click 562 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: the tab to join our mailing list. That's Fast politics 563 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: pod dot com. Jeff Stein is the White House economics 564 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: reporter for the Washington Post. Welcome back to Fast Politics, 565 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: Jeff Steint. It's let's talk about the Giant quech. Everybody 566 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: loves to talk about the Giant coin. It's on everyone's mind. 567 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: It's a great story because it's an amazing story. Give 568 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: us the backstory. Its debt ceiling giant coin. But give 569 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: us the backstory, please. The story of the coin goes 570 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: back to eleven, when the Obama administration first had this 571 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: sort of major crisis with House Republicans over raising the 572 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: debt limit. It was a very different political context than 573 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: we're in now, but essentially, the Republicans, having swept Congress 574 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: in we're demanding major concessions from the Oban administration's cuts 575 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 1: to Social Security and Medicare that the Aboma administration did 576 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: did entertain. And so it gave rise to this question of, 577 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, the US has a limit on what it 578 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,959 Speaker 1: can borrow, and so people were all over the place 579 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: brainstorming how does the Obama administration how could they theoretically 580 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 1: get around this question of needing Congress to approve an 581 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 1: increase in what the U. S Government is statutorially allowed 582 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: to borrow without you know, giving into Republicans demands that 583 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, economists and Democrats hate and 584 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: think are really that for for millions of people? And 585 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: so Carlos Mucha is the verified originator of this idea. 586 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: He's an attorney and believe in New York City, and 587 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: he came up with this idea that essentially the US 588 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: government Congress approved in the in and the two thousand's 589 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: a law that allows the US Treasury to basically meant 590 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: novelty coins and recoup a profit from the novelty coins. 591 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: I think we should take a step back from our 592 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: involvement with novelty coins to talk a little bit about 593 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: the dead ceiling. So we we officially hit it this 594 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: week or last. We officially hit it last Thursday. But 595 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: because of extraordinary measures, Jannet Yellen can keep this whole 596 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: fiasco a k a. The United States government going until June, 597 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: when we will have an economic showdown to end all 598 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: economic showdowns, which will involve jacket lest Jim Jordan jumping 599 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: up and down obviously explain to our listeners why the 600 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,919 Speaker 1: dead ceiling is a made up thing. So Congress has 601 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: passed two laws that seem completely contradictory. On the one hand, 602 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: they've said to the administration, to the executive branch, you 603 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: have to spend on these things, right whatever, you know, 604 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: all the things that the government spent the trillan's fortunately 605 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: dollars a year that we spend money on. And then 606 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: simultaneously Congress has said you can only borrow up to 607 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: a certain amount. In this case, it's about thirty one 608 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,959 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. And so the math of the first part 609 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: of this right, what Congress has told the administration it 610 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: can borrow and spend. What it's required to borrow and 611 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: spend is in excess of what it is also telling 612 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: the administration that it is actually allowed to borrow against 613 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: its borrowing limits. So this is the core of the 614 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: conflict where we've had we had this impass where it's 615 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: impossible for the administration to simultaneously maintain all of the 616 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: spending and revenue that you know, and and tax collection 617 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: that Comress has told it to do, and also at 618 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: the same time not borrow an access of what Congress 619 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: has told it that it can borrow an excess of. 620 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: And so what the administration is doing now, as you 621 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: mentioned Jenny Yellens, has started extraordinary measures which essentially allow 622 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: them to do some sort of just basically playing around 623 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: with money, moving funds around to prevent us from going 624 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: above that borrowing limit there. You know, they're they're sort 625 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: of technical things that including you know, not reinvesting a 626 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: retirement fund for federal employees. Once the crisis passed, that 627 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: will be made whole. But the upshot is that we're 628 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: kind of moving money around to maintain all of the 629 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: funding obligations withoutgoing about the borrowing limit. So we we've 630 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: already hit the maximum amount we can borrow, and so 631 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, if we get any closer, um, you know it, 632 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: once we exhaust these extra maring measures that allow us 633 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: to move money around, then we're going to be at 634 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: a real crisis point where the government is going to 635 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: be saying, we have millions of payment requests coming in, 636 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: but we cannot borrow any more money because Congress has 637 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: told us we can't legally. Yeah, it's an amazing, amazing thing. 638 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: I want you to explain to our listeners why the 639 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: Republican way of explaining the debt ceiling is so disingenuous. 640 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: You know what the Republicans would say is, you know, 641 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: they are using the threat of the of the debt 642 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: limit to you know, bringing in what they see as 643 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: this catastrophic problem in America and you know in the 644 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,879 Speaker 1: American government, which is that we have. You know, there 645 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: are thirty one trillion dollar debt. What the problem with 646 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: that is is that, as you're alluding to, all of 647 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: this spending has already been approved by Congress, including an 648 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: eight trillion dollar run up of the debt under President Trump, 649 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: which was the largest under any president in American history. 650 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: One thing that I think really gets missed from this 651 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: discussion that is really important to emphasize is that Republicans 652 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: are playing games with this debt limit. They're they're risking 653 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: the possibility that we default in our obligations for the 654 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: first time in US history and cause a market collapse. 655 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: And and what Jane Allen said would quote undoubtedly be 656 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: a recession, right, and it did in eleven There's historical 657 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: precedents for this. I mean, it didn't cause a recession, 658 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: but it caused the market to crash and billions of 659 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: dollars to be lost. Yeah, we know that there are 660 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: real risks here at a minimum, And I just think 661 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: it's a really important thing to communicate is Republicans are saying, 662 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: over and over look, we need a way to force 663 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: a conversation. They say, you know, the Republicans say, we 664 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: agree that the debt limit needs to be raised, but 665 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: we just want to use this opportunity that it creates 666 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: to have a force a discussion about reigning and spending. 667 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: And what I what I think a lot of people 668 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: would say is that you know what, I think what 669 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: gets mistialized that that there is an opportunity to do that. 670 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: It's called the government appropriations, and you have had shutdowns 671 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: of the federal government that you know, our your listeners 672 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: will be from emiliar with when the Parks Services closes. 673 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: And there's issues with T s A. And it's a 674 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 1: real problem, and it's a real thing, but it's not 675 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: the existential threat to the American economy that this threat represents. 676 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: And so for Republicans to say we need to use 677 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: the debt limit to do this, I would ask them, 678 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: and we were trying to understand, why don't you just 679 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: use the annual process of deciding funding for the federal 680 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: government for that exact purposes. You can force the conversation 681 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: and you're not risking a global recession as part of it. 682 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I also think that it's really disingenuous because 683 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: Republicans agreed to these nonfunded tax cuts under Trump, and 684 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: they in fact agreed to the debt seal raising the 685 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 1: dead ceiling twice under Trump. Yeah, I mean, there is 686 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: no doubt that Republicans have had a hand in running 687 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: up the debt, and there's no doubt that Democrats have 688 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: had a had a major hand in that too. I mean, 689 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: I think the interesting question here is like, to what 690 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: extent our Republicans right at our debt is out of control? 691 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: And I think you find, you know, even on the left, 692 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: kind of mixed responses to that. You know, the borrowing 693 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: has come down, you know, since the height of COVID, 694 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: but that you know, the administration is trying to claim credit. Look, 695 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: the federal deficit came down from three trillion to one 696 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: trillion under Biden. I kind of look askance at that 697 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, we had a generational COVID crisis 698 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: where every country in the world ran up on the 699 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: president of deficits that have since come down. And for 700 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: the buying administration to tow deficit savings as a result 701 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: of that is I think a little suspect. I also think, 702 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of economists would tell you that 703 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,720 Speaker 1: the rhetoric that this can solely be solved from tax 704 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: increases on the rich may may not quite be true 705 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: in Scandinavia, where they have much much higher revenue as 706 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,280 Speaker 1: a percent of GDP and a much more robust welfare 707 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: system and a much more people would say adequate um 708 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: protections for the elderly and the sick and people without 709 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: healthcare it's not a dystopia. They they also have broader 710 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: based taxes, which is obviously not dystopia. But it's not 711 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: just higher taxes on the rich. It's higher taxes on 712 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: the upper middle class in the middle class as well. 713 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,959 Speaker 1: And we have the country have been reticent to go there. 714 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: But that's probably if we're going to actually maintain higher 715 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 1: spending levels where we need to start thinking about going. 716 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,959 Speaker 1: If we want to look more like Scandinavia. Yeah, good luck. 717 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: In my mind, I theoretically agree, but I think it's 718 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: going to be hard to convince anyone in either party 719 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 1: to get excited about that. But one of the things 720 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,240 Speaker 1: that I think is really interesting here is that during 721 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: Clinton we were not adding to the dead. There was 722 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: a period in American history where we weren't adding to 723 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: the dead, and that was Glinton. That's true. I mean, 724 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: I think Republicans would say only to take the Republican signs, 725 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: But what they would say is that the deficit reduction 726 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: measures that were achieved under Clinton were the results of 727 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: gingrich sweep of Congress, after which Clinton was sort of 728 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: in a position where he had to They would say, 729 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: at least east make these deals with Republicans that cut 730 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: spending substantially while in exchange for for raising taxes in 731 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: the nineties six and nine budget deals. But it is true. 732 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, like the last president to balance 733 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: the books was a Democrat, and Bush ran up enormous 734 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: debts in pursuit of um not just the Iraq War, 735 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: in the war in Afghanistan, but massive new spending measures 736 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: through Medicare Part D and enormous tax cuts under Bush 737 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: as well, although again most of those were extended by 738 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: the Obama administration, which also ran up. When we talked 739 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: to the Biden people, I think they would say that 740 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: they see an opportunity to reclaim that sort of Clintonian 741 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: model of responsible governance, and they are very eager to 742 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: be like, we want to bring down the deficit. There 743 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: are people on the left who say this is not important, 744 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: this is not a fight worth having. That is not 745 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: the view, at least a stated view of the Biden 746 00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: White House. They agree that that the debt is a 747 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,760 Speaker 1: problem that they wanted to be reduced and brought under control. 748 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: The problem is, I think that they'll face, is that much, 749 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, completely unlike the nineties, there's just zero belief 750 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: that Republicans will be willing to go along with anything 751 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: that would involve, you know, any sort of higher taxes. 752 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: Not that Inglich was a big tax hiker, but that 753 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: and you know, frankly that that you know, the party's 754 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: mood has shifted on spending. I mean, I think a 755 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: lot of people look at what Clinton did to balance 756 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: the books in the nineties, in particular cutting welfare, and 757 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 1: say this was an enormous disaster that has really increased poverty, 758 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: child poverty. You know, poor black mothers have suffered tremendously 759 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: as a results of some of the deals that Clinton 760 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: cut and this Biden White House I think, for a 761 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of good reasons is saying we don't We're not 762 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: really willing to pay that price for the mantle of 763 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: fiscal responsibility. Yeah, I mean also fisical. I mean I 764 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: tend I'm kind of of the school that a lot 765 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: of this is bullshit anyway, and that you know, we 766 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: should I mean, I just think it's better to help people. 767 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: But that's my own personal belief. I just am curious. 768 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: I think the thing that makes me feel like we 769 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,760 Speaker 1: are heading towards imminent disaster with this dead ceiling crisis, 770 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,959 Speaker 1: which is everywhere. Is that it just seems like Kevin 771 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: McCarthy cannot He can barely get things he found equivocally 772 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: wants done. How is he going to be able to 773 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: get something like this past when he's already made deals 774 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 1: saying he won't. God, Molly, I welcome to my world. 775 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm telling you this is This is the question that 776 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: is consuming all of Washington, d C. And you've articulated 777 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: perfectly the like impossibility of seeing how this gets resolved 778 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: in a way that isn't catastrophic. Yeah, no, you're I 779 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: People like ask me, like, hey, so, like what happens 780 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: with this? And I'm like, I have no idea, Like 781 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: it seems very just iCal um for me to like 782 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: the White House cannot give in to major spending cuts 783 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: after not only like winning the presidency, but but you know, 784 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: like it's doing really well last year expanding the Senate. 785 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,479 Speaker 1: They're not going to turn around and and say, oh, yeah, 786 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,240 Speaker 1: thanks for reelecting us UM and expanding our Senate margin. 787 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: Now we're going to agree to cut source security Medicare's 788 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: just not going to happen, and frankly they shouldn't. I 789 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: mean to your point, like, once you accept that the 790 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: White House isn't going to give into anything that McCarthy 791 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: can take back as a victory. The question becomes, do 792 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: you think Kevin McCarthy is the kind of person that 793 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 1: will put the US economy and the fate of millions 794 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: of jobs over his own personal political anhibition that he 795 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: spent decades working for. It's like, you know, the Michael 796 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 1: Scott meme where he's like kind of like sucking his 797 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: face in, Like it just seems like, I mean, I 798 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't laugh, because people will suffer because of this, But 799 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,919 Speaker 1: it seems inevitable all that this, we are just spiraling 800 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: towards disaster. I mean, and I think even if Kevin 801 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: McCarthy were a sort of very moral and upstanding person 802 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: who cared only about the public good, I do not 803 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,479 Speaker 1: think he is that. But if he were, that he's 804 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: still too incompetent to be able to get I mean, 805 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: what we saw with his speakership bid was that he 806 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: actually does not have the votes. So I mean, I 807 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,839 Speaker 1: just think that either way this ends in disaster. Yeah, 808 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he's going to go to 809 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi for advice on how to manage and cacus 810 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: it just seems like we're in a in a death spiral. 811 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: What I would say is that there's been a lot 812 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: of talk recently about what kind of non substantive concessions 813 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: the White House might be able to offer McCarthy to say, 814 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: let's start a commission. It might not have any power, 815 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: but then you know, you can say that there's a 816 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 1: reigning in spending commission that um, we got out of 817 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 1: the debt limit fight. And I am very skeptical. We've 818 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: already talked to the House Freedom Caucus and other conservatives 819 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,320 Speaker 1: who say, you know, we're not stupid. We can see 820 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: through that potential outcome, you know, but we'll we'll just 821 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 1: interpret that. I mean, they're sort of stupid, but they're 822 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: not stupid in that way. Yeah, they I think they 823 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 1: would be able to, you know, not have the will 824 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 1: pulled over. I think they'll understand if McCarthy reaches a 825 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,879 Speaker 1: deal that's purely pro forma, and so then that leads 826 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: us back to like one of the unilateral options for 827 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: the White House if they can't negotiate and McCarthy can't 828 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: give them anything that that he can self of his 829 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: own caucus. And what I've been convinced of talking to people, 830 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,879 Speaker 1: you know at the White House and the last week 831 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,880 Speaker 1: or so is that the unilateral options are really dad 832 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: And I know this gets a little technical. Um, I 833 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: know this gets a little technical, but the the issue 834 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: here is that any of the unilateral options, be it 835 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: invoking the fourteenth Amendment to just declare the debt let 836 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: law unconstitutional um or you know, minting the giant coin, 837 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,879 Speaker 1: either one could lead to a really severe outcome, which 838 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: is that that Treasury auctions. Right the process by which 839 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,919 Speaker 1: the government issues bonds to raise money for its obligations 840 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: and then investors come and then bid on that on 841 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: those bonds, right Like, That's that's how the US government 842 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: funds its obligations there, you know, balances its books essentially 843 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,239 Speaker 1: about raising money. The cost of that could be much 844 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: more expensive if all of a sudden investors are saying, 845 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: holy holy cow. The risk premium of this is enormous 846 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 1: because there's a chance the Supreme Court will invalidate these bonds. 847 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: Because the Republicans on the on the Supreme Court Supreme 848 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: Court are very partisan, could say that they're bad and 849 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: so that could lead the cost of borrowing to jump 850 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,279 Speaker 1: by hundreds of billions of dollars that the government will 851 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,399 Speaker 1: be spending hundreds of billions of dollars more on each 852 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,919 Speaker 1: of these auctions. And that's a very scary outcome because 853 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, huge portions of the out 854 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: of the government will be going solely to paying off 855 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: these really high premiums on the debt. I appreciate you 856 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 1: so much. It sounds like there's no possible good outcome. 857 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: You will will definitely have to have you back to 858 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: talk about all of this as it continues on towards 859 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: the cliff in June. Be back at any time, I 860 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: think so much. Molly John Fast whoever you are, No 861 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, I'm just kidding, Jesse Cannon. You know the 862 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: best part about the Trump administration the incompetence. It's like 863 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: the thing that saved us. So, yes, the incompetence is 864 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: the best thing in the Trump administration. It's probably the 865 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,319 Speaker 1: only good thing. I'm gonna check the box on the 866 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: right for that one. Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. 867 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 1: Today we learned that A. G. Bill bar pressed Durham. 868 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,320 Speaker 1: You'll remember Durham as the guy with the enormous mustache 869 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,840 Speaker 1: to find flaws in the Russia investigation. And then this 870 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,960 Speaker 1: is a line from This is New York Times scoop. 871 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 1: Mr Barr sought to recast the scrutiny of the Trump 872 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,879 Speaker 1: campaign's myriad of murky if murky links to Russia, as 873 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: unjustified and itself a crime. So Bill bar was working 874 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: behind the scenes to do what Tucker Carlson and Sean 875 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: Hannity we're doing in front of the scenes. And for 876 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: that that is our moment of buckery, well deserved. That's 877 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, 878 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to your the best minds and politics 879 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what 880 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep 881 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,640 Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.