1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: This is a case that we had supervisors, We had 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: people here who said, quit wasting time on that case. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: This is not going to be solved. I got nervous 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: about being the one carrying the ball right there on 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: the one yard line, because, oh God, I got to 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: go through something that really good detectives have already failed 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: that and hope that you can somehow find that needle 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: in a haystack. 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: In March of nineteen fifty nine, police and spoke Hanne 10 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: Washington began searching for nine year old Candy Rogers. The 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: investigation would turn into one of the largest in Spokane's history. 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 2: For sixty two years, no one knew who had taken 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: her and dumped her body in the woods. Local law 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: enforcement call it the Mount Everest of cold cases. It 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: was the crime that every officer was desperate to investigate, 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: but no one could solve. This is a mayor is 17 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: Crime lab. I'm Alan Lance Lesser, producer Catherine Fanalosa is here. 18 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: This case really affected generations of people who lived in Spokane. 19 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: So Alan, this is one of the oldest sexual assault 20 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: cases ever to be solved with Authorum's new DNA technology, 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 3: and it's a case that no other lab would touch 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 3: because of the age and condition of the evidence, which 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: I'll get to in a second. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: So what's the story. 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: This is nineteen fifty nine, Spokane, Washington. Candy Rogers is 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: a nine year old girl and she lives with her 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: mother above a grocery store, and her grandparents actually own 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: the grocery store and they live next door. 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: I love when the family can be all close together 30 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: and convenient to have the grocery store there. I can 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: picture it. It's friendly, probably more rural than it is today. 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Candy was an only child. Her mom, Elaine, 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 3: was a high school teacher and she also co the 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 3: boys tennis team. Candy's grandparents were super involved in her life, 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: really helping to raise her. People describe Candy as kind 36 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 3: of small for her age. She was just shy of 37 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: four and a half feet tall. And Candy is a 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 3: junior member of the Campfire Girls of America. Her group 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 3: is called the Bluebirds. 40 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the Campfire Girls. I think my mom was 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: a part of that back in the day. It's kind 42 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: of like the Girl Scouts. 43 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and just like the Girl Scouts, they have a 44 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 3: program to sell Instead of cookies, they sell mints. So 45 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: she has seven boxes of mints to sell, and she's 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: super excited. She's come up with a plan with her 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 3: mom that on the very first day of mint sales, 48 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 3: she's going to go door to door after school. So, 49 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 3: you know, you can kind of get the picture. I 50 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: don't know if you're a girl scout. 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: I did brownies and then quit, so oh kind of 52 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: in a sense failed. 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: So the Bluebirds are sort of the brownies. I think 54 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 3: of the campfire girls. 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: Oh okay, so I can relate. Yeah, it's too perfect 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: that her name is Candy too, and she's selling mints. 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: I know. It's very sweet. So she goes to school 58 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: and on her way home she sees some neighbors. She 59 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: gets home. 60 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: They have a dog. 61 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 3: She plays with the dog in the backyard. She has 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: a little snack, and they have a rule with the 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 3: campfire girls. I think that you're not allowed to sell 64 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: mints before four pm. So even though some of the 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: neighbors on her way home who saw her were like, hey, Candy, 66 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: we want to buy mints, she sticks to the rules 67 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: and she's. 68 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: Like, I will come back after four. 69 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: So four o'clock comes around and she heads out and 70 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: she starts going door. 71 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: A woman of her word. 72 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: She also has a rule with her mom that she 73 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: needs to be home before dark, and at this time 74 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: of year, dark is sort of five thirty five forty five, 75 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: so the sun is setting and Candy does not come home, 76 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 3: and it's getting later and she's still not home. Her 77 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: grandparents and her mom obviously are very worried, and they 78 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: start going door to door. They find a neighbor who says, oh, yeah, 79 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: she came by and we bought some mints. They go 80 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 3: to some other houses where they're told, oh, a little 81 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: girl came, but we didn't buy any mints, so she's 82 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: definitely been in the neighborhood. But they still can't find her. 83 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: And now Candy's family is really worried and they call 84 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 3: the police. 85 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: So her family felt in their good that she wasn't 86 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 2: like hanging out at a friend's house. 87 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess she was really good about being home 88 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: before dark, the whole rule she had with her mom. 89 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 3: But I called Sergeant Zach Stormant with the Spokane Police 90 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: Department to find out more. He said, once police got 91 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 3: the call from Candy's family, they pretty much immediately started 92 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 3: canvassing the neighborhood. 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: Initially, patrol officers respond and they recognize this as a 94 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: big deal right away. So they do a pretty good 95 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: job tracking the homes that where she showed up. They 96 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: found a home where she did sell a box of mints. 97 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: They found others that where she tried and they said no. 98 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: So police are trying to create a map of what 99 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: route Candy may have walked, and they establish a command 100 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: post in this area of town called Doomsday Hill, where 101 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: they actually set up a roadblock to stop cars. 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: Seems like very quick action by the police. 103 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,559 Speaker 3: And within hours they have hundreds and hundreds of people 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: looking for her. They're volunteers on horseback, motorcycles, they're police 105 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 3: cars going around. There are no signs of Candy, but 106 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: eventually they do find boxes of the mints that she 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: was selling, and they find them scattered on the side 108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 3: of the road, and based on what they find and 109 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: how many homes they know she went to, they can 110 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 3: determine that these are the mints that Candy was selling. 111 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: They don't know why they were scattered. 112 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: That's so haunting to imagine we have a crumb of 113 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: her path or what happened to her. But she's disappeared. 114 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: So night falls and there's still really no sign of Candy. 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: For the next two days, more people turn out to help. 116 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: At one point there were like fifteen hundred people involved 117 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: in the search. There's the Marines, air Force, veterans, the 118 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: postal workers, police are even ferrying neighbors on the backs 119 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 3: of motorcycles and dropping them off to conduct grid searches. 120 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: WHOA, I feel like it just shows how difficult these 121 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: types of searches can be. 122 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: And every morning the two local newspapers are running front 123 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 3: page stories on Candy's disappearance. Basically, all of Spokane is 124 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 3: searching for this little girl, and then Sergeant Stormant says 125 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 3: something happens. 126 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: As bad as it was, things got worse. The Army 127 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: sent a helicopter to help. 128 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: So the Spokane River cuts right through the city, and 129 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: it's really impressive. Allen parts of the river are really wide, 130 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 3: with these steep, rocky banks, and there falls that tumble 131 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: over rocks right in the heart of Spokane. And so 132 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: the thinking is maybe Candy walked down near the river 133 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: and she could have possibly fallen into the water. So 134 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: the military deploys a helicopter to search above the river 135 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: and its banks. 136 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: Everybody that knows this area knows that that river. One 137 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: of the features of it is high attension power lines 138 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: crossing it because there's so much hydroelectric power in this area. 139 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: The helicopter hit those lines went down into the water. 140 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people out searching the river 141 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: banks already, and they saw it and described it as 142 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: an explosion. When it hit the power lines. 143 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: The helicopter tumbles down into the river. There are people 144 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: searching along the river banks for Candy and in boats 145 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: on the water. So they quickly rushed to the crash site. 146 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: Were they okay? 147 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 3: So there are five airmen on board and only two survive. 148 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah. 149 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 3: And it seems like everyone in Spokane either has a 150 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: connection to Candy or to one of the airmen. And 151 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 3: now the entire city is grief stricken and there's still 152 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 3: no signs of Candy. 153 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: It makes me think that she's somehow hidden, or she 154 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: was taken sore and is being held by someone. You know, 155 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: if they're searching that thoroughly with that big of a team, 156 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: it's kind of spooky. 157 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: About sixteen days after Candy is last seen, there's a 158 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 3: break in the case. 159 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: There's a couple of airmen from Fairchild Air Force Base 160 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: who decided to go hunting. 161 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: So a couple of guys from the nearby base head 162 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 3: to a wooded area to hunt, and it's about seven 163 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 3: miles from Candy's home. And as they're making their way 164 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: through the brush and pine needles, they notice a pair 165 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 3: of girls shoes. 166 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: I feel like, it's surprisingly common to see random things 167 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: when you're on a hike. 168 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually these airmen don't really think anything of it, 169 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: and so they go on hunting. But at the end 170 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: of the day, one of the airmen is like, you 171 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 3: know what, that's kind of bothering me. And these two 172 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: shoes are placed very neatly and perfectly next to each other, 173 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: and they airman think, okay, that is super odd. They 174 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 3: definitely did not drop out of a bag. 175 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: That is so creepy. 176 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: And they were aware of what was going on enough 177 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: that it concerned them. They didn't report it immediately, but 178 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: as the day progressed, they thought, we need to call 179 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: somebody about that, so they called police and graveyard officers 180 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: went out for first light to search in that area. 181 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: The search did not have. 182 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: To go far, so the police go to search this 183 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: area in the woods where the hunters found a pair 184 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: of very carefully placed girl shoes. 185 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sergeant Stormant says, officers from the overnight shift 186 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: were the first ones to arrive, and they start looking 187 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 3: around the area, which was covered in like a bed 188 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 3: of pine needles and brush. 189 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: A patrolman noticed the little girl's knees sticking out from 190 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: a slash pile, and this was in the immediate vicinity 191 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: where the shoes were found. So with that it becomes 192 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: a homicide investigation. 193 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: The autopsy shows that Candy has been strangled with a 194 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: piece of her own slip, her feet are tied together, 195 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: and she has been savagely raped. 196 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 2: How horrific. We've done so many of these cases, but 197 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: it still gets me. Are there any clues at the 198 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: crime scene? 199 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 3: This is nineteen fifty nine. The evident that they have 200 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: to work with our Candy's clothes, They can't find any 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 3: evidence of who may have done this. One of the 202 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 3: investigators working on the case at the time decides to 203 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 3: put Candy's underwear into a glass mason jar to store 204 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 3: it in the evidence room. The detectives I've spoken to 205 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 3: said that was really a stroke of genius. It's not 206 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: how evidence was stored at the time, but the fact 207 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 3: that somebody did that enabled the evidence to be as 208 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: well preserved as it possibly could be. 209 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: It's just by chance, in a way, I'm guessing. 210 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: Just by chance. Yeah, isn't that wild? 211 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: And also in general, it seems like it strikes me 212 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: that this whole community is invested in what's happened with Candy. 213 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: Point In some ways, it seems like a lot of 214 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: things have gone right because you always hear about how 215 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 2: when a child goes missing, those first few hours, those 216 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: first twenty four hours are so critical, and it sounds 217 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: like everyone jumped to looking for her, and in a 218 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: lot of ways things were done thoroughly. People lost their 219 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: lives in the search for Candy. It was quite a search. 220 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: But then where do you go from there? 221 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: Sergeant Stormant says, the entire community is determined to find 222 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: out who killed Candy. 223 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: Everybody has complete vested interests in this, and there's no 224 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: issue in who's going to work it. Everybody's working it 225 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: for quite a while and they followed up on many 226 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: mini leads. Tips came in from as far away as Florida. 227 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: So they start by looking at convicted sex offen but 228 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 3: two people that pop up on the authorities radar, they 229 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 3: each end up taking their own lives. Then detectives focus 230 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 3: on one suspect. 231 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: But eventually a character named Hugh Morris became interesting, and 232 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: for good reason because he was, in fact a serial killer, 233 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: did live in Spokane, and did kill women in Spokane 234 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: proximate to Candy's death. 235 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: Oh, he sounds like a prime suspect. 236 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. Before Candy's murder, Hugh Morse have been picked up 237 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: for indecent exposure and a string of burglaries in California. 238 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: He spent six months in jail, and after he's released, 239 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 3: he lures two eight year old girls into an alley 240 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: with the promise of ice cream and he molests them. 241 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: That sounds like a story you hear as a kid 242 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: to scare you, but he's actually doing it. 243 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, no kidding. He's eventually declared a sexual psychopath and 244 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 3: he's hospitalized, but then he's released a few years before 245 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: Candy disappears, and that's when he shows up in Spokane. 246 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: So the timing lines up. 247 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 3: The timing totally lines up, and within a year of 248 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: Candy's murder, Hugh Morris is suspecting of raping and murdering 249 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: at least three women, and then he's all over the place. 250 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 3: He moves from Spokane back to California, then Georgia, Ohio, Alabama. 251 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: All along the way he's breaking into women's homes, raping 252 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: and beating them to death, though a few women do survive. 253 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: He's eventually put on the FBI's most Wanted list. 254 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: WHOA, Yeah, it feels like he's totally unafraid to commit 255 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: a slew of crimes. He's clearly a really dangerous person. 256 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: He's finally caught two years after Candy's murder for the 257 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 3: rape and murder of a woman in Minnesota, and he's 258 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: sentenced to life, and that's where investigators in Candy's murder 259 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: can with him. 260 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: He became the best suspect for a long time, and 261 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: they interviewed him in Minnesota, who was eventually caught in 262 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: serving time, and he acknowledged doing a lot of bad things, 263 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: including victimizing children and women and murder, but he would 264 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: not admit to Candy. 265 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: Hmm, So maybe he didn't do it if he's willing 266 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: to admit to all these other things. But then again, 267 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he somehow doesn't remember, considering he's committed 268 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: so many crimes, or you just never know what people's 269 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: underlying motivations might be for lying about something like this, 270 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: So who knows. 271 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: And I'm thinking of Carla Walker's case from our first 272 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: four episodes, you know where initially Glenn mccurly says he 273 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 3: didn't do it, and then he just gets confused about 274 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: all his various suspected victims. 275 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: That whole concept is so dark that you've committed so 276 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 2: many violent crimes you're mixing them up, or you can't remember, 277 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: or you can't keep them straight. Although I guess we 278 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: don't know what's happening here. 279 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 3: So with few other suspects, no one is charged in 280 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: Candy's murder, and the case goes cold. 281 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: I mean to know that this clearly innocent sweet girl 282 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: is gone, knowing also that she was brutally raped and 283 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: then killed. I mean it, It's one of the most 284 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 2: violent crimes you can imagine. 285 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 3: And you hear about detectives saying, you know, there was 286 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 3: a cold case that they always wanted solved before they 287 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: were tired. Candy's case became that case for every detective 288 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 3: that touched that file, it becomes the largest case file 289 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 3: and spoke can history. So we're going to jump forward 290 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 3: to two thousand and one, DNA testing is becoming more 291 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 3: of a thing with crime scene evidence, and the detectives 292 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: in Spokane decide, hey, listen, let's give this a shot. 293 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 3: So they had Candy's underwear preserved in a glass mason 294 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 3: jar and they send some of that off to a lab, 295 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 3: and the lab is able to do the standard DNA testing, 296 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: which is basically they can pull DNA markers from the evidence, 297 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 3: which was semen on her underwear, and they're able to 298 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: develop a profile and they load it into the Federal 299 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 3: FBI database CODIS. But it's only helpful if you've committed 300 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: a crime before and you've been identified. Yeah, and there 301 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 3: are no hits in CODIS. It's a setback for everybody 302 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 3: because every time you test DNA, you essentially destroy it. 303 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: So now they have less evidence to work with, and 304 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 3: they really have not advanced the case forward because they 305 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 3: still don't know who this is. 306 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: That's so frustrating. 307 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, the case essentially sits cold again. Now we're going 308 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 3: to jump forward again twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen to. 309 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: Wait, how long after Candy went missing? Is that? 310 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 3: So we're like roughly sixty years? Oh my goodness, And 311 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 3: Sergeant Zach Stormant with the Spokane Police Department. He's picked 312 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: up this case. He hears about the Golden State killer 313 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 3: being identified through DNA, and he starts to think, you 314 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 3: know what, DNA may have advanced so much, we have 315 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: a chance to maybe solve this case. So Sergeant's Stormant 316 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: reaches out to the same lab as before. They basically say, look, 317 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 3: we just don't think that we're going to get anything 318 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: more from your evidence. The that they have left is 319 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: a mixture of candies and her assailants. We don't know 320 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 3: exactly how long she was left out in this wooded area. 321 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 3: There's plant DNA on it, there could be animal DNA 322 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 3: on it. You know, it was exposed to the sun 323 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: and to the elements. We just don't think that we 324 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 3: can work with this degraded DNA. But it turns out 325 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 3: that Paul Hols, who worked on the Golden State Killer case, 326 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 3: he actually has a connection with the Spokane Police Department. 327 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: Of course he does. 328 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: He's everywhere, and he says, you've got to call this guy, 329 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 3: David Middleman. He runs a lab called Authorm and I 330 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 3: think he might be able to help you out. 331 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And as we're starting to realize not all testing 332 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: is the same when it comes to dealing with degraded 333 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: or really old evidence. 334 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 3: And so Sergeant Stormant reaches out to David and Kristen 335 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: Middleman and he fills them in on the case, and 336 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 3: Kristen says, Candy's murder immediately hit home for them. 337 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 4: We started looking into the case. Our daughter was nine 338 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 4: years old at the time, so reading about and she's 339 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 4: real tiny, and they kept describing Candy Rogers as so 340 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 4: small that she could only take a few of the 341 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 4: mints at a time when she was delivering them. It 342 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 4: just brought chills to both of us, and we knew 343 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 4: we wanted to try to help. 344 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 5: There's like sixty years of investigative work going into figuring 345 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 5: out what they can learn from that crime scene, and 346 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 5: none of it led to the answer. 347 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 3: But even David Middleman has some initial questions about the 348 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: quality of the evidence. 349 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 5: The challenge here is that the crime happened more than 350 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 5: a half century ago. There's not a lot of DNA 351 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 5: left that's in any decent condition. They had been shopping 352 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 5: around the details of this DNA evidence to other groups. 353 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 5: Nobody would accept the DNA. 354 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: Surprisingly, I got a call from David Middleman. I think 355 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: that day or the next day really caught me off guard. 356 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: I'm concerned about sample size and I don't want to 357 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: consume it. I won't do that. He was very confident, 358 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: he said this isn't going to be a problem, and 359 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: given the fact he was willing to work with partial samples, 360 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: I didn't see any reason not to try it. 361 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: So what does Sergeant Stuermant send? 362 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: He sends Candy's underwear, which remember had been stored in 363 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: that glass mason jar. But Alan I was really curious 364 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: how he sends the evidence, because this is like a 365 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: really big deal. 366 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'd be very nervous, but what else 367 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: can they do? 368 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's incredibly nervous, and he and Brittany Wright, who's 369 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 3: a forensic scientist with the State Police, they really have 370 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: to brainstorm on how to get the DNA to author 371 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: them safely. 372 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: Britney built crazy containers, you know, almost like a kid 373 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: in elementary school. At the egg drop competition, we talked 374 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,959 Speaker 1: about just putting it on a carry on bag and 375 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: flying down and just a it that way, but Brittany 376 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: had confidence with her shipping container we could send it 377 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: that way. We did worry about that a lot because 378 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: it's a it's a terrible responsibility knowing the time is now. 379 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: This does look like the technology is finally here to 380 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: solve this case, and worrying about the be the one 381 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: to screw it up with a stupid air like shipping. 382 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 3: Thankfully, the evidence arrives at the lab and ailen all 383 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 3: of it is treated just like it's at like a 384 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 3: state crime lab. It's immediately entered into their system and 385 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 3: their chain of custody. And you know, especially in cases 386 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 3: like this one where the evidence is so small and 387 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 3: so fragile, authoram really has to be precise about everything 388 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 3: because you know, remember once they test the DNA, it's destroyed, 389 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 3: it's gone forever. So all of this is why Kristin 390 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 3: Middelman from authorm says, forensic scientists open and the boxes 391 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 3: of evidence in a special section of the lab and 392 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 3: it's a highly controlled environment. 393 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 4: In these vestibules, air is filtered, they dress from head 394 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 4: to toe, and then as they go through they have 395 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 4: the negative air that makes that room even more style. 396 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: I get why they're being so careful because not only 397 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: is this maybe the last chance they have to solve 398 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: the case, but I mean, if this becomes evidence in 399 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 2: a trial. You don't want any contamination or concerns about 400 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: tampering chain of custody, that type of thing. 401 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, authoram really has to prove that their 402 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: methods will stand up in a courtroom if that's where 403 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 3: it ends up. And now that the evidence is cataloged, 404 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 3: David and his team go to work. 405 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 5: So we got a lot of really great data in 406 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 5: spite of the fact that the quantity and the quality 407 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 5: of DNA was very limiting. And once we got that data, 408 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 5: we built a SNIP profile. This is literally a file 409 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 5: that just has a list of all the different markers 410 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 5: of DNA that we had collected, hundreds of thousands of 411 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 5: these markers. 412 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: Then the DNA profile is uploaded to genetic genealogy databases 413 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 3: that agree to forensic investigations. 414 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 5: And so once we did that, we were able to 415 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 5: identify distant relatives that were both genetically related to the 416 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 5: sample that we were trying to identify and also consented 417 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 5: for being used in a forensic investigation. And that led 418 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 5: us to a key number of individuals. 419 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: Hey, it was labored a weekend, I got a couple 420 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: emails from Mittleman saying, Hey, can you look into this 421 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: look into that small little details that to me, they 422 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: were completely in a direction the case it had no 423 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: information on. 424 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 3: David Middleman wants Sergeant Stormant to investigate something. 425 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: He asked me to look into a boy's home in 426 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: the Shahalis, Washington area and see if I could find 427 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: a roster for it for that timeframe. 428 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 3: And immediately Sergeant Stormant knows, Oh my god, Authorm is 429 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 3: on to a completely different suspect path than decades of 430 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: detectives were. 431 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: What do you mean by boys home? 432 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 3: So it was a bit of like a juvenile home 433 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 3: for boys who were getting into trouble. 434 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 2: Got it. So the DNA led them there was it 435 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 2: like a specific boy who is staying there? 436 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: The DNA profile that they had built out as they 437 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: start looking for people who are as closely related to 438 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: the DNA that they've extracted from her underwear, and some 439 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 3: names start popping up. And a boy, young man who 440 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 3: attended this home maybe related to whoever killed Candy. 441 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 2: I see. 442 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: But by the time Sergeant Stormant has looked into the 443 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 3: records of who attended this boy's home during these particular 444 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 3: years that David Middleman was interested in, David calls him 445 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 3: back and is like, listen, Zach, forget that. 446 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: And the phone call came on Labor Day, and I 447 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: want to say, it was around six pm. And for him, 448 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: the CEO of the company be calling me on that 449 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: time of day, on that type of weekend, this was 450 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: going to be a big deal. And it was one 451 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: of those tingly tingly neck moments. I'm expecting a big 452 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: family tree, I'm expecting a lot of work to do. 453 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 5: I called Zach and I said, I think I have 454 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 5: a lead. 455 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: He gave me three names, three brothers, and I felt 456 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: pretty confident. I think we have the name of Candy 457 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: Rogers killer. 458 00:27:52,119 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 3: In this group, Sergeant Storman is listening to David Middleman 459 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: and the three names all brothers, and one of them 460 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 3: might be Candy's killer. 461 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. It also just strikes me that this 462 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: is sixty years after Candy disappeared. So even if Candy 463 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: were still alive at that point, she would be about 464 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: sixty nine years old. Yes, And so I'd imagine a 465 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: lot of the people who are around and deeply affected 466 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: by this have since passed away or have aged a lot. 467 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: But the fact that people are still actively trying to 468 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: think of creative new ways to solve the case. Just 469 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: shows what a deep impact this case has because it's 470 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: almost like a generational thing. Now it's the sons and 471 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: daughters who have heard this story that are still being 472 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: affected and still wanting to have answers. 473 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: Actually, one of Candy's cousins, a woman named Penny, is 474 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 3: still alive. 475 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: Her health was fading fast. I actually drove to her 476 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: house that night to make sure she got to hear that, Hey, 477 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: we're going to figure this out, and she was so 478 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: so relieved. It was pretty incredible to see that. The 479 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: next morning, I go in and start doing research on 480 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: those three brothers. 481 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 3: Now it's on Detective Storman. He needs to find out 482 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 3: whether these three brothers are still living and if they're not, 483 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: if they have survivors children who are alive. And you're 484 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: absolutely right, this is a very old case, but some 485 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: of the detectives that had worked on this when she 486 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 3: was abducted are still alive. I mean, it's just incredible. 487 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 2: It's been following them around for decades. 488 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 3: So Sergeant Stormant learns pretty quickly that the three brothers 489 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 3: had all lived in Spokane, but they've all since died. 490 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: Oh, so they can't ask them for DNA, are there 491 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 2: like any relatives they could check with. 492 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 3: So he learns through the family tree that one of 493 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 3: the brothers, John ray Hoff, had children. 494 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: And they were all local. Authorm had the names and 495 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: actually contact information for three of the four. They didn't 496 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: for daughter named Kathy, which made her a little more 497 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: interesting to me. 498 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that the one that's the most 499 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: mysterious catches his attention. 500 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 3: Yes, So Sergeant Stormant decides to call Kathy, John ray 501 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: Hoff's daughter. 502 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: First, she didn't answer, and her voicemail struck me as 503 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: a super kind person because it simply said I'm not available, 504 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: I'll get back to you, and something the effect of 505 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: God bless you have a great day. 506 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 2: This is not a call I'd want to make. I mean, 507 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: you have to call a woman you don't know out 508 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: of the blue and say, hey, I think maybe your 509 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: dad might have been involved in a murder sixty years ago. 510 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: Oh and it's also the rape and murder of a 511 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: little girl. I mean, you're about to potentially ruin someone's life. 512 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, completely, I mean, he said he absolutely dreads these calls. 513 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: I've done a number of them now. They're stressful for me. 514 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: If you run into the wrong person, They're going to 515 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: alert the entire family and essentially circle the wagons against you. 516 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: That's my fear, so finding that right person to be 517 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: the introduction to this and let them know we're not 518 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: going to view you as evil. You are the good 519 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: guy in this and you're actually a victim too, and 520 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: that I'm about to tear down. Your impression of a 521 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: loved one and what you thought of them is going 522 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: to be changed forever. 523 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 3: But there's something about Kathy's voice and the way she says, 524 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 3: have a great day. She just feels approachable. So he 525 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 3: leaves a message with his phone number. 526 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: I was very vague in it. I said, I'm a 527 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 1: detective of the Spokan Police Department. Would you please give 528 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: me a call back. I have something interesting I want 529 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: to talk to you. 530 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: If I got that voicemail, I would be calling that 531 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: number right away. 532 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: Well, you're right, because Kathy calls back pretty quickly, and she. 533 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: Happened to be at a scene on nearby. 534 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 3: Sergeant Stormant asked Kathy if she'd come by the police 535 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: station so they could talk in person. 536 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: She brought her daughter with her, but she did come 537 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: down to the detective's building right. 538 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 3: Away, so Sergeant's Stormant sits down with Kathy and her daughter, 539 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: and he's asking her questions, but he's really careful not 540 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: to tip her off right away. He does mention this 541 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 3: has to do with an old cold case. 542 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard to be vague on a nineteen 543 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: fifty nine case. She knows it's older than her dad's death, 544 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: and she's very she's struck by this. 545 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 3: Kathy's daughter has her cell phone with her, and Sergeant 546 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: Stormant can see she's actually doing an Internet search for 547 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: cold cases from nineteen fifty nine. 548 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: Oh my god, so much tension in this room. 549 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to reveal details of the case. I 550 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: still have that concern that they'll circle the wagons and 551 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: make it very difficult for me. The horror is hitting 552 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: her as we're speaking, it's hitting her daughter. Her daughter 553 00:33:53,360 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: eventually said, Mom, he's needs your DNA next time. 554 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: On America's Crime Lab. 555 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: It does not take a lot to turn one of 556 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: these from stone cold. No one's ever going to solve this. 557 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: To red Hot, here's a list of names. 558 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: It takes a while for it to sing in and anger, sadness. 559 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 4: Someone that a little girl murdered in nineteen fifty nine, 560 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 4: so I knew who it was. 561 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: There's going to be a moment in time or use. 562 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: The cold case detective are the only person in the 563 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: world that knows who killed that person. This is It. 564 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 2: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 565 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is 566 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 2: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa, Emily 567 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: Foreman and Jessica Albert. Our Executive producers are Kate Osborne, 568 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: Mangesh Hadigadour and David and Kristen Middleman and from iHeart 569 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 2: Katrina Norville and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, 570 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 2: Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman, Nikki Etour, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank, 571 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 2: and the entire team at OTHRM. I'm Alan Lance lessor 572 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 2: thanks for listening.