1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always this 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant sliding into my seat and with 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: us is Dr Molly Edmonds, m D esquire PhD LLC. Right, Yes, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: that get all of those. Molly. Uh. This is uh 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: the final installment of our four part healthcare reform suite. 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: We've reached the end of the final countdown. Can I 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: just say, speaking for Molly and I thank god? Yeah, 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: you're not speaking for me to Do you think I 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: like this? Chuck? Are you ready to move on? Yeah? Okay, okay. 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: So we've talked about healthcare reform. First of all, Molly, 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: what was that statistic that that you mentioned, um a 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: long time ago in a in a podcast far far away, 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: where you said, like only one in a Americans think 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: that the health care system in the US needs reforming. 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: Are happy with their healthcare as it is. So. Um, 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: what we've kind of deconstructed is why healthcare form is 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: even on the table. We've talked about the uninsured. Right. 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: We've talked about the fact that UM that America has 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: UM really really terrible like mortality rates or UM disease rates, 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: chronic disease rates, that kind of stuff. UM. So that 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: in and of itself makes the health care system worth fixing. Right. 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: But one thing that hasn't been brought up, and I 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: haven't seen it brought up in coverage too much, is 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: the fact that our health care system is actually keeping 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: us from competing as well as we could on a 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: global scale, right, which is why we would compare ourselves 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: to other health care systems around the world. You know. 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: The thing is that no one in this country wants 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: to become like any other system in the world. But 33 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if you could find anyone who lives 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: in another country who wants to trade place with an 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: American that comes to their health care. We'll put We'll 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: put let's talk about competitiveness and the health care reform 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: system via Dr Michael Royson, who you guys might remember, right, Yes, 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: what is he? Dr Roysen is the chief Wellness officer 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: of the Cleveland Clinic and my hero and the co 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: author of UM The You the Owner's Manual book series. 41 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: Right with Dr Oz here is what he had to say, 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: because healthcare is a expensive thing in America, and that 43 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: we need reform for the economy to function, for jobs 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: to be created, and for us to be competitive with 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: Europe and Asia four jobs, and for us to not 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: worry about a following standard of living, and for people 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: to not worry, not have the stress of worrying about 48 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: will there be health care for me when I need 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: it that I can afford? Okay, So, if we're going 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: to keep up with Europe and Asia, like Dr Reason suggested, 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: we could by reforming our health care system. Um, maybe 52 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: we should kind of peek in on what other countries 53 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: around the world are doing, whether for better or for worse. Um, Malla, 54 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: you wrote this article ten health care systems around the world, right, 55 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: which is up on the site. Yeah, it's sort of 56 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: I think, a virtual hot air balloon ride through the 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: world of health care. It was. It was a delightful 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: one too. It was beautiful, like so many bloody bandages. Um, so, 59 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: where was there any particular health care system that struck 60 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: you as arguably better than the US or better than 61 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: all the other ones? Actually we wait, wait, let's talk 62 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: about France. France transition. Oh gotcha get it? Yeah, I do. 63 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: Now we mean yes, it's like, okay, France, Uh, they 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: apparently have the best health care in the world, I 65 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: mean World Health Organization. Right. Yeah, it's hard to argue 66 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: with who. Moving on then, no, that's actually um, I 67 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: think just because it's become a relic in the healthcare 68 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: reform debate in the United States that who um two 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: thousand report of a hundred countries healthcare system rankings is controversial. 70 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: I think we should say that. Everybody's like, oh, well 71 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: who said that? So okay, it must be true. Um. 72 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: But again, you can pick apart anything. But so let's 73 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: just stick to the fact that France was rated number 74 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: one in the year two thousand by the World Health 75 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: Organizations rankings of a countries. Right, right, So all French 76 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: citizens will put in money based on their income, you 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: can't opt out of it, and then in return they'll 78 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: get about seventy of their healthcare paid for by the government. Um, 79 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: you can get same day appointments, you can choose any 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: healthcare provider you'd like. Um. But okay, so we said, 81 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: s how do they pay for the other thirty percent? 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: They all have supplemental insurance with either a public or 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: a private plan, and that is more similar to how 84 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: we have in the U S where that supplemental plan 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: might come mere employer. So there there are a couple 86 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: of problems with the French system, and it's not flawless. 87 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: There is no flawless plan. We should go ahead and 88 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: say that, you lie. Um. I saw one guy that said, 89 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: I said it like this. He said, it's sort of 90 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: like medicare for everybody with the French system. Yeah, I 91 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: got it, and he was he was a pro. So 92 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: they make up the other thirty with private plans, right, 93 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: private or republic. And that's the problem is if you 94 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: have money, then you would probably opt for a private plan. 95 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: So some critics would say that the French plan is 96 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: too divided by class. People who want really good care 97 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: and can pay for it, get it. Those who can 98 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: don't write. But they do that in England too. You 99 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: can get also get your private insurance, right yeah, and 100 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: we should say for a kind of a comprehensive rundown 101 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: of England. Molly gave one in the third podcast. Right, 102 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: so we're not gonna talk about this, We're okay. I 103 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: mean it was a nice step on the balloon ride. 104 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: But here's how France got it's awesome writing. Okay, it 105 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: spends personal healthcare while that you spins over twice that, UM, 106 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: so already they're using money pretty well. And if you 107 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: get really sick, like you have just the worst form 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: of cancer in the world, everything is paid for. Yeah, 109 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that's what I saw that your article. In some other 110 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: stuff I read is that if the sicker you are 111 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: in France, the better off you've got it, or the 112 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: easier and quicker your claims will get paid as well. Exactly. 113 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: But it's not just the really sick who benefit. Because UM, 114 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: I think what's cool about Frances they have the lowest 115 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: rate of deaths that could have been prevented. The US 116 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: has the highest number of these preventable deaths that they say, 117 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: or you know, if you had had an early diagnosis 118 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: or if you'd had an early treatment in condition right, 119 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: I did see also in another article I read that UM. 120 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: One of the criticisms criticisms is that there's not great 121 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: coordination between the GPS and the specialist in France. But 122 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: if you're talking about problems, that's not the worst thing 123 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: in the world. That's better than being denied for a 124 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: pre existing condition. I think, wouldn't you say, I wouldn't say, yeah, Um, 125 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: you guys done with France, because I'd like to get 126 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: back in the balloon, okay, and just head on over 127 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: a few kilometers a few clicks, if you will, to Germany, 128 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: which is um out of the out of the healthcare 129 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: systems in the in the article, this one's my favorite, 130 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: and I'm not embarrassed to say that. One of the 131 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: reasons why is because of the ample access to spa 132 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: days and even the public health insurance plans, right and 133 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: there's two hundred of them, correct, and their employer and 134 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: employee funded, right. Yeah. And you know where that comes 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: from is actually in three old Otto. Von Bismarck was 136 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: like the spies. He was like, I want some healthcare 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: like they had back in the days of guilds. And 138 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: so he is basing all of this off the fact 139 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: that when you were in your medieval guild for being, 140 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, the podcasters guild, the you know clothmaker's guild, 141 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: you know with Germany, that was how they named them. Um, 142 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: they all pay for each other sick time. They all 143 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: got together, and it would be like us saying podcasters, 144 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: let's have to pay for Josh's care when he has 145 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: a stroke from smoking. I we can't even get podcasters 146 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: to unite under this roof. I doubt if we can 147 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: get it all around the world. So model, this is 148 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: a pretty old system, and um, it's been around for 149 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. But if because they're always willing to 150 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: keep reforming it. Yeah, I noticed that in another article 151 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: UM from Berlin University. Actually, um, it was kind of 152 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: a rundown of the German healthcare system. All these different 153 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: years kept coming up, like they try new things like 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: every year or two. Uh, and it seems like that's 155 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: probably what you'd have to do. I think the impression 156 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: that a lot of people in America have, whether supporters 157 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: or opponents, is that this healthcare reform is going to 158 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: happen and that's it. Yeah, And I think you're I 159 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: think you make a very bad the point that it 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: has to keep evolving and changing as problems come up 161 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: or as things prove very effective, you know, you put 162 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: more money into this or take funding away from that. Right. 163 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: Some of their cool new initiatives are these disease management 164 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: programs UM, where if the patient gets more counseling from 165 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: a doctor, like if a nurse calls them up at 166 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: home to make sure they're taking their meds, you know, 167 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: sticking with their diet. These people have much um lower 168 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: rates of hospital emissions and much lower rates of deaths 169 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: from people than people who have the exact same conditions 170 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: who aren't getting that counseling. So I think that's a 171 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: pretty cool way to approach disease. I don't know, I 172 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: could see like half the people in the United States 173 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: thinking it's really nice thing to get a call, and 174 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: half the people be like, stay out of my business, nurse, 175 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: how did you get this number? Right? Well, and you 176 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: know it's not like the nurses and the doctors love 177 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: the system. I would say that you read a lot 178 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: of articles about how the German doctors feel underpaid. To 179 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: protests the most often right German doctors says they're paid 180 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: about two thirds what American doctors um make, and but 181 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: they pay less for malpractice insurance and some of them 182 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: go to school for free med school. And you know 183 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: one cool factor that I did not manage to squeeze 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: into this article. But um, those plans, those two in 185 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: our plans that we were talking about those plans get 186 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: incentives if they get sicker people on their rosters. So 187 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: instead of a system like in the US where people 188 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: where we tend to deny people, they get benefits for 189 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: doing that. In Germany it's pretty cool. Also, saw where 190 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: you can in Germany you can go straight to a specialist, 191 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: like you don't have to go through your gatekeeper GP, 192 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: which's kind of cool. Also, there is a private insurance 193 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: market for UM people who make over forty eight thousand 194 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: euros a year. It's not compulsory for those people. Actually, 195 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: long term health insurance is compulsory for everybody, but basic 196 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: health care coverage isn't compulsory for people who make over 197 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: forty eight thousand euros a year UM. So there's another 198 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: uh I guess accompanying private insurance market, but that's still 199 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: regulated by the government. UH. There's like you can't deny 200 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: for pre existing condition and UM. And apparently your rates 201 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: are assessed when you enter that private system UM based 202 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: on your risk. But that's it. There's like a one 203 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: time risk assessment and that sticks with you for the 204 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: rest of your life. I missed the DEUT. I'm just 205 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and say that you missed the Deutsche Mark. Yeah, 206 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: I missed the deutsch Mark. Miss I missed the frank 207 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: I miss this whole euro business. Yeah, but I hate 208 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: to change money from country to country, so I thought 209 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: it was kind of thrilling. But then you're left with 210 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: your leftover coins. Yeah, but then you take them and 211 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: you give them to your cousins and nephews and nieces. 212 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: I actually haven't been to Europe since the introduce the Euros, 213 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: I'd probably love it. Speaking of redistributing money. Oh, I 214 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,599 Speaker 1: know we're going next. This is gonna be kind of 215 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: a long balloon ride. So it's just fly forward to 216 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: when we when we land in Cuba. So Cuba, let's 217 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: talk they have healthcare for well, you'd give the skinny 218 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: because I have. I just read some articles where they 219 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: say it wouldn't so for well, you know the famous example, 220 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: I think Cuba. If you're a Michael Moore fans, when 221 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: he took people to Cuba so they could get better 222 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: care than they could in the United States, and you 223 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: know it was meant to embarrass the U s health 224 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: care system. There are obviously a lot of critics, as 225 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: with anything Michael Moore does, of how it was portrayed 226 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: in the movie. And some people say that there is 227 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: um sort of one level for the people they're going 228 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: to impress and then one level for everyone else, Right, 229 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: But I do think that even those people who are 230 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: in maybe that lower um echelon get an immense amount 231 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: of preventative care. That's pretty pretty cool. Well that's it 232 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: sounds like they do, uh do a pretty good job 233 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: with preventative care because they kind of have to. Well, 234 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: you guys were talking about Germany and doctors or nurses 235 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: calling you up to going how you doing. Um, If 236 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: you had a problem with that, you probably really have 237 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: a problem with Cuba because any any person is subject 238 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: to a surprise visit from their physician once a year. Yeah, 239 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: they are going to stop at your door, see what 240 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: you're doing, What are you eating? They're like, while we're here, 241 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: what's under your mattress and what's in your closet? Well, see, 242 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: that's sort of the problem is that, you know, because 243 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: they have the preventative care, because they may not have 244 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: let's say, a fridge or access to really fatty food 245 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: or a really great car. Um. So it's almost like 246 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: the you know what we would see as the deficiencies 247 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: in Cuba have created a culture whereby they walk a lot, 248 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: they don't have fast food. I mean it's coming. They 249 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: say that that might be sort of the next wave 250 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: of obesity, as Cuba is getting some fast food really well. 251 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: As a result, Cuba they have I think they spend 252 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty bucks of person on healthcare a 253 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: year A year, Yeah, right, because they're they're really good 254 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: with preventative wellness. But I do want to point out, 255 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I believe you brought it up, Josh, 256 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: there's the thought that if we spend a lot less 257 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: on healthcare, will really skimp on our innovation. But Cuba 258 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: surprisingly is known for its um innovation of medical break facs. 259 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: I have heard that they the medical sector is their 260 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: sixth largest in exports, obviously not to the US, but 261 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: they really got to put themselves on the map with 262 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: some vaccines they've come up with first meningitis B and 263 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: then hepatitis B and UM. So they're really making a 264 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: name for themselves in terms of their pharmaceutical and mechanical 265 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: medical equipment exports. Chuck, you reference some articles that you've 266 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: read that the Cuban um I think this is one 267 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: of the systems where it all depends on who which 268 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: side you're reading, because I read a bunch of articles 269 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: that said and a lot of these people interviewed Cuban 270 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: refugees that were now living in America, and they said 271 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: things like there's two health care systems, one for health tourists, 272 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: which apparently Michael Moore is a health tourist, and that's 273 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: a big deal, kind of camera coup filling yourself around that, right, 274 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna get treated differently. But there's health tourism is 275 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: a big deal there, and you can go and pay cash. 276 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: And so there's one system for Communist Party officials and 277 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: health tourists and then one for the rest of Cuba, 278 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: and they maintain that, you know, if you're the rest 279 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: of Cuba, you can't get things like aspirin, you can't 280 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: get any biotics unless it's on the black market, and 281 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: you don't have access to a lot of like basic 282 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: medical care. Uh, you have to bring your own cheets 283 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: to the hospital. Stuff like that. Well, I think there's 284 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: also a concern that they get these really great statistics 285 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: by fudging their numbers a little bit, Like Cuba has 286 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: really good rates of mortality. I thought that was interesting. 287 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: But in the United States, you know, if if a 288 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: baby is born only lives a very short period of time, 289 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: we count that, whereas if it was in the same 290 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: if it was a lie for the same period of time, 291 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: in Cuba, they may count that is dead on arrival. Right, 292 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: And didn't you also say that some doctors allegedly will 293 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: suggest abortions in the world the government UM suggests they 294 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: abort a fetus that could be developmentally disabled or something. Right, Right, 295 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's just concerned that UM they have great numbers, 296 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: but because you know, we don't really know much felt 297 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: what goes on inside the country, we don't know exactly 298 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: know how to get them right. It was really nice 299 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: to visit it. Can it can be hard to separate 300 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: your opinions on the Cuban health system from your opinions 301 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: just on Cuba the country, right, So I don't want 302 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: to oversell Cuba, Okay, but I'm glad I got to 303 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: visit the balloon. I don't have any opinions on Cuba 304 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: other than what I've heard from a couple of friends 305 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: have traveled there and said it was really awesome, the men, 306 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: that people were lovely, and the country is beautiful when 307 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: politics aside the country itself. The love it's illegal, it's illegal, 308 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: actually not true. Um, so you guys, let's head on 309 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: over to China. Okay, Well, here we are in China, 310 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: and this place is kind of screwed up all. I mean, 311 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd want to get sick here. 312 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: It used to be pretty good from what I understand 313 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: in your article that there was cooperative healthcare system right right, 314 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: and they dismantled it and that just didn't go very 315 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: well because, uh, you know, no one knew were to 316 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: send the bill, and the places they were sending the 317 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: bill didn't pay up. And what the huge effect of 318 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: this was that there's a giant divide between healthcare and 319 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: cities and healthcare in the rural areas. Yeah. One of 320 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: the I guess ideas for Chinese healthcare reform was that 321 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: all farmers pay a dollar for healthcare, and they bought 322 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: in a year, and they balked at that as being 323 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: too expensive. Are the rural Chinese that poor really well 324 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: just not really taken seriously over there. One Well, I 325 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: think they're also saying that yes, a dollar was high, 326 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: especially for the care they got. I was reading one 327 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: article it was in the New York Times about how 328 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: you got us in these world clinics and stray dogs 329 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: are walking the halls of the clinics. But it's not 330 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: worth a dollar a year. Straight dogs in your hospital. 331 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: They bring dogs into American hospitals to perk up cancer 332 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: patients and nice, healthy ones, not one that looks like 333 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: they're going to die. You don't know whether they're straight 334 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: or not. You're talking about the uh like they have 335 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: different names at every hospital, I guess. But Love on 336 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: four Paws, that kind of programs dogs love to not 337 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: enough hospitals. Well, okay, so China is in addition to 338 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: it's ridding the hospitals of stray dogs initiatives. Um, they're 339 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: planning on building seven hundred thousand I guess probably pet 340 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: unfriendly clinics in rural areas. I mean, maybe they'll bring 341 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: the nice dogs into those clinics. But yes, they are 342 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of funneling just a ton of money 343 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: into their healthcare system and hopes that they cannot eradicate 344 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: this divide between ten years or so, ten or eleven years, 345 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: but by the population will have health insurance. They're hoping 346 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: the billion on it. Yes, e yen you want. I 347 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: don't really know how to pronounce anything in China. Want. 348 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound like very much money to me. It 349 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: does to build seven thousand clinics. Yeah, and well. The 350 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: other problem is Molly points out that um of that 351 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: money UH is supposed to come from the central government, 352 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: which means provincial governments are gonna have to make up 353 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: the rest. And right now, no one knows if they're 354 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: going to pay up right, sort of the problem they 355 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: had when they first dismantled them. No one wants to 356 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 1: pay for healthcare. That's true everywhere, but you know one 357 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: place where they do pay. There we going back to 358 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: a bloom. Now, do we have enough game it's run 359 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: on unicorn tiers? Excellent? Okay? Do we have enough unicorn 360 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: tiers to make it to tai wall on? You think? Oh? 361 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: I hope so, because Taiwan's got a pretty nifty system. 362 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: I don't think it would work in this country. But dude, 363 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: the smart card. The smart card sounds so convenient, although 364 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: kind of mirror bracking for someone like me who has 365 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: the tendency to lose things. Wait, wait, you guys can 366 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: get to Taiwan. Okay, I wanted to do. I wanted 367 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: to brief check before we got there. They're chatting along 368 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: the way. Let's just all sit silently in a balloons. Alright. 369 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: So we're in Taiwan. Now this is lovely. So back 370 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: to the smart card before we were exactly Um, okay, 371 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: So you get a smart card. It's got your entire 372 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: medical history on it, right, and you can just show 373 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: up to a doctor and give them your card and 374 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: they can pull up your entire medical history. And that 375 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: is how they will also build a government. So it's 376 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: like your healthcare credit card that you never have to 377 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: see the bill for and it's your entire medical history. Now, 378 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: of course, I people who say that's a way too 379 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: much information for any government to have about a person. 380 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: I like the idea of the smart card. I wouldn't 381 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: mind all my medical information being on one car because 382 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: I'm a little distressed every time I go to the 383 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: doctor and I see them pull out a paper file 384 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: in the midst of thousands of paper files, it seems 385 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: very archaic to me. Well, I've I've moved quite a 386 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: bit and I just hate having to kind of start 387 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: over every time with every doctor. And what do you do. 388 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: I actually haven't changed doctor as much. You get them 389 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: to send everything to your new doctor. I think you're 390 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: supposed to. Really, maybe I shouldn't reveal how poorly I 391 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: manage my health switchovers. So I am a health writer. 392 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: The smart card sounds word well, yeah, medical medical billing, 393 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: medical information. It's a huge, huge problem in the US, 394 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: just an administrative costs and time. Yeah. And that's the 395 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: thing that was cool about what Taiwan did is that 396 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: in expanding coverage to cover so much more the population, 397 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: that they cut all those costs because now they have 398 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: no administrative costs essentially. But the fact matters is that 399 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: now Taiwan doesn't spend enough on healthcare to cover their costs, 400 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: and the Taiwanese have gotten used to these really low 401 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: healthcare costs, and people of our frager RaSE the taxes 402 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: the age old story. Yeah, saw, we're a family and 403 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: average family premium it's six d and fifty dollars a 404 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: year in Taiwan. So I can't even think about car 405 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: insurance for that. So are we done with Taiwan? Is 406 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: that smart card? This place is really clean, by the way, 407 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: have you noticed the food is good? Yeah, let's go 408 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: to Russia. Okay, guys, thank you again for nuts speaking 409 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: during the balloon ride. So we're in Russia now, and 410 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: unfortunately this is not a good place to get six. 411 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: So no one drink the water here. Okay, okay, right, 412 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: but you can't drink the water in Russia. No, okay? Really, wow, 413 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. You think they would have had 414 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: that worked out? So they not in a place that 415 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: has one of the four worst healthcare systems in the world. Right, 416 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: is there another one we may have heard of that's 417 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: in that list? According to Foreign Policy, the United States 418 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: also makes that list. It was a foreign policy article, 419 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: so it's it's not stellar. The World Health Organization that 420 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier ranks them out, so, you know, and 421 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: they've got a fair bit of money. It seems like 422 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: they should be doing doing a little bit better. And 423 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 1: this is another system sort of like China, where they 424 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: dismantled their old Soviet system which was pretty well admired 425 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: around the world, and tried to create a public private 426 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: combo system. And basically this system works well in theory 427 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: but sucks in practice. Financially, it doesn't work out, right, 428 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: I don't even think of I mean financially personally you 429 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: got to show up with a pretty hefty bribe to 430 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: see a doctor in Russia. Yeah, I thought that was 431 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: really interesting that the on paper or you know, um spoken, 432 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: it's um the populations covered, but the government doesn't really 433 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: pay up and so to keep operating hospitals and doctors go, um, yeah, 434 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: I need you to give me a donation, buddy, or 435 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: else I'm not going to you. It's extortion for healthcare, 436 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: which is nuts. Can we just be careful because I 437 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: don't want Vladimir Putin to listen to this podcast listen 438 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: to the word extortion, So let's make stop your brief. 439 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: I think. I think what's good to know is that 440 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization, Love It or Leave It, recommends 441 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: the countries spend about five percent of their total spending 442 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 1: on healthcare, and Russia spends three. Okay, I don't want 443 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: to alarm anybody. Some guys just pointed at us and 444 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: are starting to come over, So we should probably get 445 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: back to our balloon. Okay, a pretty happy place. Canada. Okay, yeah, 446 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: we had a lot of Canadians right in, So what 447 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: about us? We have a lot of Canadian fans, and 448 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: so we're gonna we're gonna talk about you all now 449 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: up there in the Great White North. Okay, I'm gonna 450 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: let that one slide. Uh. We're here in Canada now. Um, 451 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: thank you Molly for not speaking during the journey. I 452 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: couldn't be quilled any longer. I was writing a personals 453 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: ad for AMOUNTEE, So let's see if we can find 454 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: you one here. But first, let's talk about the healthcare 455 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: system in Canada. This is the one that the US 456 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: is often compared to. If we're if we go to 457 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: socialized men or something this this Canada. I always feel 458 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: bad for him because they serve as like some sort 459 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: of cautionary tale for what we don't want. But from 460 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: what I hear that it's not nearly as bad as 461 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: as we've been told by some quar right, people are 462 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: trying to treat Canada like the worst case scenario, and 463 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: I think that, um, this is due to a lot 464 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: of commercials and from what I can understand, I mean, 465 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: I haven't talked to these people myself, but it seems 466 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: like people are very good about going and finding the 467 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: people who did have just staggering long wait times and 468 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: put them in the commercial. Right. I have some Canadian 469 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: friends who I keep up with on the blog and 470 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: they've they've written me before and said, you know, it's 471 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: not perfect over here. Wait times aren't nearly as bad 472 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: as you're depicted, though, and we'll take it any day. 473 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: And I think wait times were really bad back in 474 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: the eighties and early nineties, and then in the nineties 475 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: Canada invested billions of dollars to improve the statistics. And 476 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: so now if you want to head over to a clinic, 477 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: before you go over, you type in which clinic you 478 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: want and they will tell you what the weight time is. 479 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: So I mean that's sort of transparency. I think it's 480 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: pretty hard to find in this country. And then the 481 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: wait times aren't it's it's not for like basic care 482 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: right and usually for like special elective surgeries and the 483 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: right the weights are longest for you know, like knee 484 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: replacements sort of elective things. And I think that one 485 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: of the ways that Canada does keep their costs low 486 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: and comparison to the United States is they don't buy 487 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: every single new fangled machine that comes out. In the 488 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: United States, we have a tendency to buy every single 489 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: cool gadget, and that's and that really can make our 490 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: health care systems seem like it's working really well. It 491 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: really does provide us a great level of care. But 492 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that the old machines were necessarily in 493 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: bad shape. Right, But there appears to be something of 494 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: an equally American sentiment among Canadians that they do like 495 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: they're pretty machines like an m R I and new 496 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: r m R I. Because there you mentioned in the 497 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: article there's a I guess, a subculture of rogue doctors 498 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: who offer UM unlicensed illegal medicine for people who don't 499 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: want to wait and can pay up. I assume, right, right, mean, 500 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: I think that that's sort of the message you can 501 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: take from any of these systems is the people who 502 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: have money will use it. UM. We should also say 503 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: that if you're going to compare country with socialized medicine 504 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: to what the US, what the fear of what the 505 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: US might become, you shouldn't you shouldn't point to Canada. 506 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: You'd be much better off pointing to Britain, because while 507 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,479 Speaker 1: Canada does have a single payer government system of healthcare UM, 508 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: the hospitals and doctors are private entities, their private enterprises. 509 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: Right in Britain, they run the hospitals and pay their doctors. 510 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: But in Canada it's just single payer. And let's talk 511 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: about that means, because single payer seems like such a 512 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: dirty word to people. UM. Here's how Canada pays for 513 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: their health insurance. The citizens fund you know, their their 514 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: healthcare by paying income taxes and sales taxes and then UM, 515 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: all that money is sort of funneled through to the 516 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: provinces and the territory. So it's not even like Canada 517 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: as an entity is pushing out the money. Gotcha you 518 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: clear on that, Josh, I am. Do you want a 519 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: fun fact? Yeah? Please? Did you know that open heart 520 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: surgery cost less in Toronto than it does in Chicago? Really? Yes, 521 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Also, prescription drugs tend to cost a lot 522 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: less in Canada, UM, from what I understand from Roison 523 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: during that phone interview, because UM Canada promotes far more 524 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: competition among UM pharmaceutical companies. The same pharmaceutical companies that 525 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: might be based in the US are doing business here 526 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: in the US or bass why their costs are lower 527 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: for pharmaceuticals. And also doctors and nurses make a fair 528 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: bit less. So I don't know if I don't know 529 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: if doctors want to go to Canadian system. Okay, kids, 530 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: one last stop on our whistle stop tour, taking a 531 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: good one. I feel like doing some skiing. Um, let's 532 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: go to Switzerland, a little good chessolate. Okay, here we 533 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: are in our last stop. It's beautiful. You see the 534 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: red crosses everywhere in the Alps and the nice smiling 535 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: rib apple cheep face. I'm going to stay neutral and 536 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: not give you an opinion on this. That's their Their 537 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: health care system is really expensive, really really expensive. And 538 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: yet um, Americans who are looking for alternatives abroad, seemed 539 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: to love it. Both Democrats are Republicans because it's a 540 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: pretty good system. But it's just expensive. Right. Well, you 541 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: know they have free choice, but they pay for that, 542 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: they do. What do you mean by that? Well, I 543 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: will tell you you know how everyone here is all 544 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: freaked out about public health option. Um, it's all private 545 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: plans in Switzerland. It's not tied to your employment at all. 546 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: You just can go into a marketplace, let's say, for 547 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: lack of better word, pick your private plan and um, 548 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, making fancily want and it can cost a lot. 549 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: You can just seven fifty dollars per family per month. 550 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: Not Yeah, so pretty steep. So generally Republicans like the 551 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: choice you can have a private plan, and Democrats like 552 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: the fact that even though that's expensive, everyone's covered because 553 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: those who can't afford it receives sus tous from the government. 554 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: But I don't know if you want to go from 555 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: being a first expensive most expensive healthcare sites from the 556 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: world's second most expensive healthcare in the world. One of 557 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: the things I found significant in your article about Switzerland 558 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: was that, um, your healthcare providers aren't allowed to make 559 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: a profit off of basic healthcare. They make their profit 560 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: off of like elective surgeries. Um up tom and trade 561 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: things like that. I'll turn the medicine. Just the right 562 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: to get a private room in a hospital, that's a 563 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: little bit extra. Um. So yeah, every everyone's private plan 564 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: is essentially the same, and everyone pays the same. That's 565 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: the key thing. It's not tied to how much money 566 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: you make. Regressive not progressive. Wow, I got a little 567 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: efect for you to one of the largest insurance companies 568 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: in Switzerland pays out claims in five business days. That's 569 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: awesome and people love it, they said, I'm sure clearly 570 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: you guys want to go back to the studio. You 571 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: get your kind of like here in Switzerland. I'm going 572 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: to go back to the studio and wrap this up, 573 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: all right, good knowing you. So I'm here with Josh. 574 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't let him go alone. Thanks. We left Molly 575 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: and her mounty in Switzerland. Let's say those two are 576 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,239 Speaker 1: a handsome couple. They are. They're going to live out 577 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: the rest of their days in the alps Um, she 578 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: promises postcards, Yes, and chocolates. Yes, we have finished the 579 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: fourth installment of our podcast Sweet, which means it's the 580 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: end of our special healthcare podcast Suite. I have hot 581 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: air balloon lag. I know you do, buddy. We'll get 582 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: you the bed with some warm milk and a beer 583 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: in a second. Okay, yeah, um, chuck, let's wrap this 584 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: this puppy up all right. And Molly, she's really here. 585 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: We've really Oh yeah she is. She's sitting right there 586 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: just daydreaming about the mount here. I like the life 587 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: you pulled for us. Yes, um, thank you very much 588 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: Molly for joining us. I don't know that we could 589 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: have done this without you. It wouldn't have been the same. 590 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: Definitely agreed, no problem. Thanks for having me, guys, and 591 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: thank you, of course, the Dr Roison who gave us 592 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: like an hour of his time quite generously and for free, 593 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: like you didn't have lives to say. I was expecting 594 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: him to be like a Russian physician, be like I 595 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: demand a donation, right, but no he didn't. Um and 596 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: thank you for tuning in to listen to our four 597 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: part series on healthcare reform. It's an important issue, which 598 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: is why we tackled it and hopefully you learn something 599 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: from it. Had some of your questions answered. If you 600 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: have more questions, you can visit Molly's wonderful articles on 601 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: the site. At how stuff works dot com. You can 602 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: just type healthcare reform in the handy search bar, and 603 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: if you have any questions that you want to direct 604 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: towards me and Chuck, you can send those in an 605 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: email to stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com. 606 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is 607 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: that how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, 608 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot 609 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two 610 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you