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Speaker 1: Hi is Sea Fishman from Orbit Media and what we

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Speaker 1: think of as our true crime Clubhouse. One of the

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Speaker 1: things we like to do with the Clubhouse is to

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Speaker 1: introduce you to podcasts that we think you'll like podcast

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Speaker 1: besides those we produce which we know you love. This week,

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Speaker 1: we're sharing the first episode of Someone Knows Something from

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Speaker 1: the CBC for listeners who aren't familiar with the show.

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Speaker 1: Someone Knows Something is an investigative true crime series by

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Speaker 1: an award winning documentarian named David Ridgein What Happens Is

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Speaker 1: each season, David investigates another unsolved case. So this season,

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Speaker 1: which is season nine, he jumps into the case of

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Speaker 1: Christine Herron. Christine was a book loving teenager from Hanover, Ontario.

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Speaker 1: She leaves for school in the spring of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: three and has never seen again. A suspect confesses to

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Speaker 1: killing her, but the case falls apart and no one

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Speaker 1: is punished. Then David teams with Christine's mother and they

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Speaker 1: investigate the case, at one point coming face to face

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Speaker 1: with the man who claims he killed Chrissy. You can

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Speaker 1: find all episodes if Someone Knows Something wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. Okay, here comes episode one enjoy. Let us

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Speaker 1: know what you think at info at Orbitmedia dot FM.

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Speaker 2: I'm out another river, this one flowing through a southwestern

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Speaker 2: Ontario town on a clear but darkening springtime evening. I

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Speaker 2: recorded these nature sounds well over a decade ago for

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Speaker 2: a TV documentary using the same microphone I now use

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Speaker 2: for the podcast. This thing always seems to be standing

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Speaker 2: between me and the unknown, somehow oddly comforting, just.

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Speaker 3: Crouching at the riverside. Here a park and Hanover, Ontario.

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Speaker 3: This is the Sagiin river, which the mouth of the

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Speaker 3: Sagi actually empties out into the Lake Huron. It's about

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Speaker 3: sixty kilometers downstream. I think the river's flowing clear, but

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Speaker 3: there's lots of debris kind of pushed against the shoreline.

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Speaker 3: There's obviously a pretty high floodplain here. There's an old gazebo,

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Speaker 3: a swing set, there's an old gate.

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Speaker 2: I remember focusing on the sounds these things made. Here,

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Speaker 2: chains on a swing, muddy logs at the high water mark,

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Speaker 2: brushy grasses along the path, and that metal gate. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if these objects or the sounds they made, ever

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Speaker 2: held any actual comfort for anyone.

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Speaker 3: At one time, this park was Christine Herron's favorite place

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Speaker 3: in the whole world. I have been told if i'd

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Speaker 3: been here before May eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, I might

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Speaker 3: have seen her down here catching frogs or fishing. And

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Speaker 3: nobody here today, just this path next to the river.

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Speaker 2: The sounds I recorded here don't reveal any secrets, but

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Speaker 2: I feel pulled back to places like this again and again,

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Speaker 2: pulled back into long term investigations, their grief and the hope.

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Speaker 2: Even after some questions have been answered, there's always more

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Speaker 2: and more difficult ones. Over thirty years ago, just one

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Speaker 2: week after her fifteenth birthday, Heron disappeared, and her full

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Speaker 2: story has yet to be told. I'm David Ridgin, and

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Speaker 2: this is someone Knows Something, Season nine, The Christine Herron Case,

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Speaker 2: Episode one, Chrissy. I first learned about Christine in the

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Speaker 2: late two thousands as I was scanning through some of

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Speaker 2: the many unsolved cases out of Ontario. I was preparing

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Speaker 2: to make a documentary series for CBC Television's news program

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Speaker 2: The National. I sorted Chrissy's case into a much smaller pile,

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Speaker 2: a shortlist of sorts, cases that for some reason spoke

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 4: We gathered here this morning for a celebration of life

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Speaker 4: A Life of Christine Error.

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Speaker 2: I'd learned that a memorial service was being held at

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Speaker 2: a church seventeen years after Christine disappeared, So I traveled

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Speaker 2: west to Hanover in the springtime of twenty ten.

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Speaker 4: Let us bring loving God, look with mercy on those

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Speaker 4: who mourn for Christine, who has died by the violence

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Speaker 4: of our fallen world. Be with us as we struggle

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Speaker 4: with the mysteries of life and death.

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Speaker 2: Framed photos of Christine in curly dark hair and glasses

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Speaker 2: sit on a small table at the front of the church,

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Speaker 2: next to the minister. There are others sad people whom

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Speaker 2: I assume are her family standing close by, including the

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Speaker 2: woman that I know is her mother, Mary Anne.

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Speaker 5: Described by her mom as midical loader. Christine didn't have

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Speaker 5: a lot of close friends in our culture. Her loner

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Speaker 5: mentality meant that she was viewed as being different. She

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Speaker 5: wasn't someone who has hung.

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Speaker 4: Up on appearances or who is doing with whom.

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Speaker 2: This minister's words, his impressions of Christine filled me with

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Speaker 2: a chill of sadness. Tears suddenly rolled down my face

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Speaker 2: for this young person I'd never met, and right there

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Speaker 2: I decide that I'm going to do this case.

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Speaker 6: This is the last place Christie had lived.

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Speaker 2: I would take several more months of information gathering before

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Speaker 2: I contacted Chrissy's mother, Mary Anne.

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Speaker 7: That front window was the living room, and that's where

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Speaker 7: her and I had spent the morning together watching television,

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Speaker 7: with her laying her head on my lap.

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Speaker 2: I've got mary Anne framed up in my documentary camera

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Speaker 2: on a cool, windy day, Pale skinned in glasses, with

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Speaker 2: meticulous makeup and shorter hair. Mary Anne stands in front

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Speaker 2: of the small brick to story she'd been renting back

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Speaker 2: in the spring of nineteen ninety three at the time

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Speaker 2: Chrissy disappeared. Mary Anne gestures to where she says. Chrissy

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Speaker 2: walked away from home that.

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Speaker 7: Day and then she left to go to school. She

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Speaker 7: walked down the other side of the street and around

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Speaker 7: the corner, and that was the last I've seen of her.

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Speaker 2: Mary Anne says. She watched from an upstairs window as

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Speaker 2: Chrissy turned the corner on the way. Mary Anne thought

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Speaker 2: to Grade nine classes at John Diefenbaker High School, not

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Speaker 2: that far away. It was sometime between one thirty and

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Speaker 2: two pm. Chrissy had not felt well that morning so

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Speaker 2: stayed home. She'd been known to skip classes and didn't

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Speaker 2: want to go to school that afternoon either. She and

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Speaker 2: her mom had argued about it, and mary Anne suggested

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Speaker 2: that perhaps Chrissy should get a job instead. Chrissy walked

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Speaker 2: down out, saying see you later, and slammed the door.

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Speaker 2: She was wearing blue jeans, a jean jacket, black running shoes,

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Speaker 2: plastic glasses with a broken nosepiece on one side, and

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Speaker 2: possibly a silver bracelet.

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Speaker 6: She was in a good mood that morning, but she

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Speaker 6: was mad that she had to go to school. She

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Speaker 6: even we were in the process of packing and moving

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Speaker 6: to another place, and she says, well, even let me

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Speaker 6: stay home and I'll pack alled it all the times

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Speaker 6: did it go on that day? But I said, you

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Speaker 6: can't truant Officer's way.

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Speaker 2: There were other tensions in the household at the time

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Speaker 2: as well. Chrissy had been deeply troubled by her parents'

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Speaker 2: divorce years earlier. Her father, Lorne, lived in Western Canada

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Speaker 2: at the time of Chrissy's disappearance and has since passed away.

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Speaker 2: Chrissy got along with her younger brother named Sean, but

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Speaker 2: did not always see eye to eye with her stepfather,

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Speaker 2: who was also named Sean. Sean Russworm, who was then

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Speaker 2: aged twenty six.

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Speaker 5: She didn't like keeping a room clean. She's kind of

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Speaker 5: a tomboy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Russworm is a large man in a T shirt sporting

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Speaker 2: a mustache and smudgy blue line tattoos on each shoulder.

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Speaker 2: Back at their current home, he and Marianne are settled

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Speaker 2: into a couch. Two chihuahuas named Chloe and Angel sit

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Speaker 2: on their laps.

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Speaker 5: As long as they behave that maybe they can stay.

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Speaker 6: The best thing to do is to hand her to

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Speaker 6: you and let you hold her.

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Speaker 5: There.

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Speaker 6: Angel, see.

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Speaker 2: Mary Anne hands me Angel the extra small one so

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Speaker 2: she can get used to me and stop barking. I

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Speaker 2: walk around the room a bit with the dog in hand,

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Speaker 2: looking at some photos of Chrissy spread out on a

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Speaker 2: coffee table with a yellow lunch pail on her first

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Speaker 2: day of kindergarten, blowing out birthday candles in red ribboned

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Speaker 2: pigtails and Chris Stmas tree moments.

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Speaker 5: I was gonna try something with.

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Speaker 2: That light for okay, the dogs seem calm and we

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Speaker 2: start talking about Chrissy.

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Speaker 5: I like to take stuff apart and.

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Speaker 6: Her back together to see what made it work. She

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Speaker 6: loved kids, loved going for walks, into cricks, catching frogs

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Speaker 6: and what have you.

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Speaker 2: I see Chrissy seeming to watch me through her big

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Speaker 2: glasses in the photos.

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Speaker 5: I love those glasses.

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Speaker 6: She hated them.

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Speaker 5: There was times where other people would pick on her

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Speaker 5: younger brother, Sean, and then Chrissy be right there sticking

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Speaker 5: up for her brother. Chrissie was right there and punched

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Speaker 5: out a couple of boys that were picking on Sean.

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Speaker 5: This was in public school already, so she could hold

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Speaker 5: her home and she was feisty and when she needed

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Speaker 5: to be.

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Speaker 2: Sean admits that his relationship with Chrissy was sometimes strained,

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Speaker 2: and he says that he is bipolar and sometimes can

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Speaker 2: be aggressive, But he says that one of his last

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Speaker 2: memories of Chrissy is her helping him replace the spark

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Speaker 2: plugs in his car.

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Speaker 5: When we started to get closer, she'd come out to

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Speaker 5: the garage and asked me if she could use my tools. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: they're right there if I go to help. No, no,

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Speaker 5: she wanted to do it herself.

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Speaker 6: But she wasn't one to go out to parties or

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Speaker 6: anything like that. Like she'd come home a couple of

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Speaker 6: times and said, well, they're drinking.

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Speaker 8: So I left.

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Speaker 6: She was against smoking, she was against drinking.

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Speaker 5: She told her we were really proud of her for that.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: She was close to her grandma, my mom, very close. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: they spent a lot of time together.

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Speaker 8: We always had a good relationship for any reason. If

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Speaker 8: she just wanted to talk, she'd call me. She used

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Speaker 8: to spend a lot of time over there with me.

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Speaker 2: Grandma Phillis socks at her home.

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Speaker 8: And then when ninety three we moved to Guelf. That's

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Speaker 8: what upset me so bad, because I felt she if

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Speaker 8: she's out there, she's gonna try and reach me, because

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Speaker 8: she always did if she wanted something or other. And

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Speaker 8: and I thought, well, I move away, she won't have

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Speaker 8: my phone number, and that's upset me. And once I

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Speaker 8: moved away, I couldn't even look at her pictures anymore

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Speaker 8: for a long time. It really upset me bad.

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Speaker 9: It says Grandma, It says Grandma Wild, Thanks all.

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Speaker 5: Wild, Thanks Alley, Oh, I said.

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Speaker 2: Grandma Christine sits around a Christmas tree with her family

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety I watched the grainy archival video as

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Speaker 2: she quietly makes sure that everyone has a gift to

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Speaker 2: open before she does. Then the footage shifts to a

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Speaker 2: Santa theme park and Christine's pretending to be a reindeer

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Speaker 2: in front of a big red sleigh, a mischievous strength

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Speaker 2: to her every move, just three years before she walks

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Speaker 2: off into oblivion.

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Speaker 8: Whoh, I got an a sewing machine. I'm bringing her

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Speaker 8: out and letting her use it. She made an apron

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Speaker 8: the one time she was out and we'd baked and

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Speaker 8: we'd just play games. We always used to go do

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Speaker 8: worm hunting and picking water two and she'd go fishing.

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Speaker 8: I just couldn't believe it when she disappeared and she

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Speaker 8: didn't call me. It's something you can't never forget. I

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Speaker 8: don't know, no matter what, you can't forget about it.

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Speaker 2: Marianne reported Chrissy missing to Hanover Police Sat. Nine to

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Speaker 2: twenty one pm on the day she disappeared, May eighteenth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. Christy was known to have a poor

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Speaker 2: sense of direction and would get lost easily, But despite

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Speaker 2: this and her habit of skipping classes or sleeping over

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Speaker 2: at friends' houses, Marianne and others say that Chrissy would

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Speaker 2: always call home and never go far.

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Speaker 6: When she didn't show home, I started phoning her friends

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Speaker 6: and my family just to see if maybe she went

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Speaker 6: to one of her friend's house after school or something.

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Speaker 2: The story of Christine's case, at least in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: is a familiar one. A teenager leaves home, supposed to

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Speaker 2: be somewhere school but never makes it. Local police investigatively inexperienced,

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Speaker 2: finding nothing and flying in the face of what a

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Speaker 2: mother knows.

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Speaker 6: And nobody had seen her or heard from her. So

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Speaker 6: then the family and I we started going out and

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Speaker 6: looking for her, looking in part in the area, just

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Speaker 6: to see, you know, if she was someplace else and

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Speaker 6: just hadn't come home.

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Speaker 9: Yet.

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Speaker 6: We had formed the police, and they said it was

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Speaker 6: too soon yet to do anything. What we actually got

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Speaker 6: from the Hanover police chief himself was that his daughter

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Speaker 6: runs away a lot, takes off for days, so mine

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Speaker 6: probably did the same thing. So she never showed home,

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Speaker 6: and I sat up all night and waited for worried.

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Speaker 6: I even had the feeling too all along that she

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Speaker 6: was down there by the park somewhere. I kept trying

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Speaker 6: to get them to search more, and the church and

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Speaker 6: I we even got together and formed our own search,

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Speaker 6: and we wanted to search down there, and they wouldn't

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Speaker 6: let us. They made us go in the opposite direction,

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Speaker 6: and the.

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Speaker 5: Top police was very upset. Yes, when we set that up,

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Speaker 5: they were not impressed that you had set up a search.

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Speaker 6: Yes, yes, they didn't want the public to panic.

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Speaker 5: We were told if we went anywhere near the park

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Speaker 5: that weekend, the very first weekend she disappeared, there would

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Speaker 5: be consequences and repercussions. Who told you that the.

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Speaker 2: Police There had been an antique car show on at

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Speaker 2: the park that coming Victoria Day weekend, and police were

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Speaker 2: concerned about disrupting it. According to Mary Anne, the Hanover

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Speaker 2: Police and Fire department did eventually coordinate and conduct a

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Speaker 2: single search using volunteers on May twenty third, nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 2: five days after she disappeared. The search encompassed the Hanover Park,

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Speaker 2: the south shore of the Saugine River going east, and

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Speaker 2: the town water tower. No trace of Christine was found.

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Speaker 6: I think everybody just wanted to believe she was a runaway.

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Speaker 6: Nobody would actually think of her as something had happened

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Speaker 6: in a small town, not to their town. So everybody

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Speaker 6: just told us, no, she's a runaway. She'll come back

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Speaker 6: when she's ready. Even when we were putting up posters,

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Speaker 6: people would take him down. They just didn't want to

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Speaker 6: believe it.

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Speaker 5: The town police took them down.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but nobody would believe it. I actually got phone

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Speaker 6: calls from people, you know, stop making such a fuss,

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Speaker 6: She'll come back. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever cast any suspicion or doubt suspicious of

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Speaker 2: people in town.

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Speaker 5: Or anything ang of it?

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Speaker 2: Nope, Mary Anne and Sean didn't have any suspects, but

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Speaker 2: almost a year later they had to be ruled out

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Speaker 2: as suspects themselves.

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Speaker 6: Yes, we all wear At one point they asked us

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Speaker 6: to take polygraphs, and I agree, just to rule out

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Speaker 6: being a suspect so that they would get on with

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Speaker 6: the case and find the person that did it. I

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Speaker 6: did it and willingly, knowing that it would clear me

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Speaker 6: and would help the case. Yes, I would do would

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Speaker 6: have done anything at that time. And you went through

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Speaker 6: two of them.

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Speaker 5: I went through too. The first one was fairly basic.

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Speaker 5: It didn't bother me too much. The second one was

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Speaker 5: at a very tense time in my life. My employer

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Speaker 5: at the time was on strike. In nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 5: I had the interview over at malfors ol Ppe station

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Speaker 5: and I believe it was October of nineteen ninety nine

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Speaker 5: and I was interviewed by one of their forensic people

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Speaker 5: from Kingston, supposed to one of their head people. It

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Speaker 5: was very, very intense. It's about a four to five

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Speaker 5: hour process, and they accused me in many different ways

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Speaker 5: of murdering Christine, strangling, rape, shooting her, drowning her, and

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Speaker 5: just everything they could pushed my buttons. What pushed my

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Speaker 5: buttons the most during this process. I know that they

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Speaker 5: were videotaping and recording the session. They mentioned that they

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Speaker 5: had Paul Bernardo in another room. They wanted to know

301
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Speaker 5: what my thoughts were.

302
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Speaker 2: Paul Bernardo was a serial rapist and murderer in Ontario

303
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Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties. He and his

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Speaker 2: partner Karla Homolka horribly murdered two young women. Bernardo had

305
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Speaker 2: been arrested and jailed months before Chrissy disappeared, So using

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Speaker 2: his name here was a tactic to get Sean talking, and.

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Speaker 5: With myself already being bipolar things that were going on

308
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Speaker 5: in my life at that time, I completely lost it.

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00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 5: I jumped out of my seat. I seemed to remember

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Speaker 5: throwing a couple of things around. I just said, let

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Speaker 5: me add the son of a bitch, because only one

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Speaker 5: of us is going to walk out of the room alive.

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Speaker 5: I completely lost control. They tried to calm me down.

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Speaker 5: I shut them off. All I had in my mind

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Speaker 5: was looking for Paul Bernardo and wanted at him, and

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Speaker 5: I wanted them dead. And that's the last I can remember.

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Speaker 2: Russworm had been at work until three pm in Durham, Ontario,

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Speaker 2: at the time Christy disappeared, about a fifteen minute drive

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Speaker 2: away from Hanover. After work, he drove to Marianne's, where

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Speaker 2: he heard that Christine had left for school shortly before

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Speaker 2: he arrived. And what did they tell you about the

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Speaker 2: results of either of those polygraphs.

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Speaker 5: That you took from that? I was clear, as far

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Speaker 5: as they've chriscerned, I had nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 5: What they said they had to do what they had

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Speaker 5: to do to prove that I was not guilty.

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Speaker 2: Sean and mary Anne did pass their first polygraph tests,

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Speaker 2: according to documents, and neither was ever arrested or charged.

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Speaker 2: In Christine's case, Do I.

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Speaker 5: Wish any to ever go through a process like that? No,

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Speaker 5: it's hell. It's not a very nice process. But they

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Speaker 5: did everything that they needed to do, and I commend

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Speaker 5: them for doing it. I just still wished that we

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Speaker 5: had something more could bring justice and bring Christine home.

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Speaker 6: I did know before the night was over she was dead, though,

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Speaker 6: call it mother's intuition or whatever, I knew she was gone.

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Speaker 2: There weren't many Christine heron news reports to look at

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Speaker 2: early on in my investigation items I could find. Talked

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Speaker 2: about the local Hanover police making no headway in Christine's case,

340
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Speaker 2: claiming even a year later that there was no evidence

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Speaker 2: of foul play. Even though Chrissy had left her house

342
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,719
Speaker 2: without her id, any extra clothing, or the eighty dollars

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00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 2: in birthday money she had just received, police continued to

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Speaker 2: suggest that she was a runaway, that there were sightings

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Speaker 2: of her. Christine was in Toronto with skinheads who had

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Speaker 2: been seen in Hanover, she'd dyed her hair blonde and

347
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Speaker 2: shaved the side of her head, or she'd left home

348
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Speaker 2: to go live with her father Laura, out west, but

349
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Speaker 2: she never appeared there or Toronto, or was seen anywhere

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Speaker 2: else again. After May eighteenth, nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 5: Three, Marianne and I spent a lot of time the

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Speaker 5: first six months to a year. We went to Kitchener, London, Toronto.

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Speaker 5: Where else did we go, dear, I can't even remember.

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Speaker 2: Even if police weren't looking for Christine, Marianne and Sean

355
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Speaker 2: were trying their best.

356
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Speaker 5: Every chance we had, going to places that we probably

357
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Speaker 5: we checked, shelters we went into. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 5: it's a halfway house or a drug house or what

359
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 5: it was.

360
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Speaker 2: The media would report on these supposed sightings of Chrissy

361
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Speaker 2: and help to generate more rumors and to make matters worse.

362
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Speaker 2: According to Mary Anne, the few articles that were written

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Speaker 2: were often filled with inaccuracy.

364
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Speaker 6: I found that whenever you tried to tell them something,

365
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 6: they twisted into something else. It was never what you

366
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 6: were trying to explain. They always just took bits and

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Speaker 6: pieces and made their own sentences.

368
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Speaker 10: It wasn't always the truth that we had said, so

369
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Speaker 10: it became frustrating and upsetting, to the point where we

370
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Speaker 10: just had to refuse to.

371
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Speaker 5: Speak from We were so scared of jeopardizing Christine's case

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Speaker 5: that we shut out all reporters for quite a while

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Speaker 5: until now.

374
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Speaker 6: I've kept most of the clippings for the newspapers all

375
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Speaker 6: these years, got those in somewhere, the posters. Yeah, typical girl.

376
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Speaker 9: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So do you think that there's a chance in this

378
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: case still or what's your aim?

379
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: The want to solved, justice and solved.

380
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 5: I think you're still a chance now. I hope, I

381
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 5: hope this will bring her home. We will do our best, working,

382
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 5: sure you will.

383
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Speaker 6: My panaver does not feel like home anymore.

384
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Speaker 5: She went missing us. It's not our home.

385
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Speaker 11: We had the same homeroom in grade nine, so the only.

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Speaker 9: Desk goes right beside her.

387
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 11: So that's how I met her and Finn there we

388
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 11: pretty much were like fast friends.

389
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 9: Like Kristine was very shy.

390
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: Cindy Galen McPherson, one of Christine Herron's school friends.

391
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Speaker 11: I mean, if you didn't know her, it took a

392
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 11: long time to kind of get to know her, and

393
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 11: a lot of people would like to pick on her

394
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 11: because she was really easy to pick on. How So,

395
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Speaker 11: if somebody said, well, why don't you go do this,

396
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 11: she'd go and do it because she wanted to be accepted.

397
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 11: People would like froll in a locker.

398
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Speaker 6: She'd just stay there until like we we're.

399
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 11: Gone, and I'd come and be like, okay, you can

400
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 11: get out now. She really wasn't once for conflict, either

401
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 11: if people were fighting or that there was a chance

402
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 11: that they could be fighting.

403
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 9: She was out of there.

404
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 11: We'd hang out pretty much every weekend. The day she

405
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 11: disappeared and I found her house, then her mama answered

406
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 11: and I'm like, it is christ you know. She's like, no,

407
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 11: she haven't gotten home from school yet.

408
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 9: I thought it was kind of weird. And I'm like,

409
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 9: well she didn't.

410
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 11: She wasn't at school, and her mom's like, oh, okay.

411
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 9: And then I think it was about two hours later.

412
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 9: I got another phone call.

413
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 11: And she's like, are you sure Christy isn't there, And

414
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 11: I'm like no.

415
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: Cindy and her father drove the roads that Chrissy might

416
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: have traveled to get to their farm.

417
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 9: We didn't see her.

418
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 11: So my dad's like, well, we.

419
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 9: Can't stay out, you know.

420
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 11: So I went home and I phoned her mom and

421
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 11: I said, well, we didn't find her on any other

422
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 11: roads coming from Hanover.

423
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: Cindy had spoken to Christy on the phone the night

424
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: before she disappeared. They were planning the May Long weekend

425
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: where Chrissy was supposed to come to Cindy's farm, So.

426
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 11: Like I was the last person to talk to her,

427
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 11: and everything seemed fine. She was excited. She loved being

428
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 11: at my house because of all the animals and everything

429
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 11: like that.

430
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 9: Saying May we had baby.

431
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 11: Goats and sheep and calves and pigs, and she was

432
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 11: excited to come and see them. And I didn't really

433
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 11: think anything was up.

434
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 9: Okay, So the police then did they talk to you all?

435
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 5: Wait couple of years they.

436
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: Come and maybe turn Cindy says she spoke to police

437
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: several times over the years and that sometimes they would

438
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: insist that Cindy knew more, that she knew where Chrissy was,

439
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: but she didn't. The best Cindy could do was tell

440
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: police about what Chrissy was like, her routines and habits,

441
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: certain places she liked to go.

442
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 11: Chrissy used to go and put on the swings at

443
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 11: the park and just think, she said, that's what she

444
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 11: liked to do when she wanted to think was go

445
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 11: and sit on the swings. Like Crinty was a very

446
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 11: good friend to me, and it kind of hurts me

447
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 11: to know that she's missed out on a lot of stuff.

448
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 9: That I've gotten to do. What's your theory? Everyone's got one.

449
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 11: I think somebody picked her up, because see what would

450
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 11: have gotten into a car with somebody?

451
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 9: Do you think that she wouldn't run into a stranger's

452
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 9: car if they were nice to her?

453
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 11: Probably she was like just driving to some sort of

454
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 11: a doubt to prove it.

455
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 9: Well, if you're older and you were a nice time,

456
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 9: she would like move having a nice to keep that

457
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 9: like that. I don't even know the word. I'm looking

458
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 9: for her that, yeah, to keep that attention on her.

459
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 9: So do you think she got into a car and

460
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 9: you think that there was the wrong car.

461
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 11: I honestly do.

462
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: It should be noted here that some feel Chrissy would

463
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: be shy of strangers or even run away from them

464
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: if she were alone.

465
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 9: Just for sure, she.

466
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 11: Would have phoned me if she was still alive, Like

467
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 11: push first, she would have phoned me. And I kind

468
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 11: of knew deep down I had to.

469
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 9: I'm like, seems not around anymore. She's dead.

470
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in the passenger seat as Sean and mary

471
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: Anne give me a short tour of Hanover Main Street,

472
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: the river, the school, the park, population about seventy seven

473
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: hundred Hanover Rose and then fell as a furniture making

474
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: capital of Canada, with much of that business gone now overseas.

475
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: A town at the time of her disappearance down on

476
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: its luck, but where Chrissy called home. Shawn and mary

477
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: Anne moved not long after Chrissy disappeared to shelter themselves

478
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: from what sounds like an onslaught of neighbors.

479
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 6: They were very rude, with a.

480
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 9: Long Mega ten.

481
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually had phone calls.

482
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 7: You get a lot of calls in the middle of

483
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 7: the night, were hanging up, so we.

484
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 9: Had the hand of her.

485
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 6: Police put a trace on her phone so they could

486
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 6: try and find out who was doing the phone calls,

487
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 6: but they never did.

488
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: A brief flurry of police activity surrounded a call that

489
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: a boy going into grade ten named Mark Koontz received

490
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: in July nineteen ninety three, a couple of months after

491
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: Chrissy disappeared. The call, Koontz told his parents and police

492
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: came from someone who said they were Chrissy. The girl

493
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: on the other end said she was calling from a

494
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: payphone and that she was near one of the abandoned

495
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: factories in town. The person on the phone said she

496
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: had run out of money and asked Coontz to meet

497
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: her behind a shed near the school. She also told

498
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: him that she wanted to have sex with him. Kontz

499
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: says the person sounded like Chrissy, but when he went

500
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: to the shed with police standing by, nobody appeared. Later

501
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: that night, another call came in where the girl's voice

502
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: asked Kons if he had told police. He said he had,

503
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: and the voice said thanks a lot and hung up.

504
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: Coons admitted later that he had previously received crank calls

505
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: on other topics, and also that he had not heard

506
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: Chrissy's voice for well over a year and barely knew

507
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: her or saw her even then.

508
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 5: We had asked for the OPP to be able to

509
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 5: step in. We pleaded with the hand Or police to

510
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 5: bring the OPP in. They said no, it was their jurisdiction.

511
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 5: They don't have to bring an outside source in, and

512
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 5: it turned out to be six years later before we

513
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 5: were able to have the OPP come in.

514
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety nine, Hanover Police requested the assistance of

515
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: the Ontario Provincial Police on Chrissy's case. At that time,

516
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: a cataloging of the case was undertaken by the OPP

517
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: and new interviews were conducted along with reinterviews, DNA samples

518
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: were taken from Mary Anne, and a profile obtained for

519
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Chrissy from a tube of her lipstick. A reward fund

520
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: for thirty thousand dollars was renewed on the ten year

521
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: anniversary of Chrissy's disappearance in two thousand and three. One

522
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: of the original investigating officers on the case, Stanley Edwards,

523
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: is charged with several criminal offenses, including robbing a bank,

524
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: forcible confinement, and sexual assault. None of the charges were

525
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: connected to Chrissy's case.

526
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 9: This move fuck.

527
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 5: Now talks with nice.

528
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: Did you ever receive any documents from the OPP by

529
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: the case?

530
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 6: No? The OPP wouldn't let us know anything.

531
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: And since that time, we're now in twenty eleven here,

532
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: what has the OPP done or to year knowledge?

533
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 9: How they communicated to you?

534
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 6: They followed up on some other leads, but we've never

535
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 6: been told any results from those. We haven't heard from them.

536
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 6: So as far as I know, the case is closed, I'll.

537
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 5: Forget into telling you what I know to myself.

538
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to leave you with some today that you

539
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: guys can read. Did you hear back at Marianne and

540
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: Shawn's place? I share some documents with them that the

541
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General has sent me. The

542
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: basic story that they tell is known to Marianne and Sean,

543
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: but the crucial details have remained hidden and out of

544
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: reach until now. Details about a local man named Anthony

545
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: who had a frustrating night at an August two thousand

546
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: and four party. He'd had a few drinks and then

547
00:33:52,040 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: confessed to killing Christine Herron. This season on Someone Knows Something,

548
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 2: the Christine Heron case, the.

549
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 5: Crown Attorney told us was a slam dump. At one

550
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 5: point he was ninety percent sure he was going to

551
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 5: be convicted.

552
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 4: Listen to me very carefully, right now, you're under arrest

553
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 4: of the murder of Christine Herron because you told that

554
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: police officer that.

555
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 5: You killed her. This story here and moved me to

556
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 5: a d I died bucking doesn't weave these whips.

557
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: Did you know Christine?

558
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: Did you kill Christine?

559
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 5: Why did you confess.

560
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 3: To her murder?

561
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me

562
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: David Riggin. The series is also produced by Katie Swires.

563
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber.

564
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: Emily Canal as our Digital producer. Chris Oak is our

565
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer

566
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: is the senior manager, and Rafnurani is the director of

567
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover

568
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 2: the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find

569
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something, or on Instagram.

570
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: At CBC Podcasts. You can hear next week's episode now

571
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube. If

572
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: you're looking for more investigations, check out the past seasons

573
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: of Someone Knows Something from a deadly bomb hidden inside

574
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the KKKA. There

575
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 2: are eight seasons of Someone Knows Something you can binge

576
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: listen to right now wherever you get your podcasts. Tune

577
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: in next week for an all new episode of Someone

578
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: Knows Something, or you can bingeless in the whole series

579
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: add free by subscribing to our channel on Apple Podcasts

580
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: just on the link in the show description.

581
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 9: Out jo About That in the World and a Train

582
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 5: Giledliency