WEBVTT - Mopreme Shakur 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:21.876 Pushkin. One of the most important artists of my life 0:00:21.956 --> 0:00:24.956 is Tupac Shakor. One of the earliest memories I have, 0:00:25.116 --> 0:00:28.036 in fact of watching music on TV is seeing Tupac 0:00:28.116 --> 0:00:31.316 Shacor on SNL and then Biggie not that much later. 0:00:32.236 --> 0:00:34.956 But since Tupac died in Las Vegas, there's been all 0:00:35.036 --> 0:00:37.436 kinds of conspiracy surrounding his life and death, and his 0:00:37.516 --> 0:00:39.716 legacy has been picked over in ways that feel kind 0:00:39.716 --> 0:00:41.716 of demeaning to his music and to who he was 0:00:41.756 --> 0:00:44.236 as a person. So I've always avoided any interviews that 0:00:44.316 --> 0:00:47.196 have anything to do with Tupac. That is, of course, 0:00:47.276 --> 0:00:50.196 until moprim Shakor, Tupac's half brother, put out his new 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:54.356 book This Thug's Life. Moprimam himself is a rapper, filmmaker, 0:00:54.396 --> 0:00:57.476 and record producer living at the intersection of revolutionary politics 0:00:57.476 --> 0:01:00.036 and hip hop. He's also one of the only surviving 0:01:00.036 --> 0:01:03.396 members of Tupac's group Outlaw Mortals, and the only surviving 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:06.716 member of Tupac's other group, Thug Life. He was raised 0:01:06.756 --> 0:01:09.116 along with Tupac and the tradition of black liberation activism 0:01:09.196 --> 0:01:11.556 them and shaped by the streets of Queens and also 0:01:11.676 --> 0:01:14.276 the stages of the world, not just with his brother, 0:01:14.356 --> 0:01:16.716 but with his own groups and also, believe it or not, 0:01:16.836 --> 0:01:20.916 with Oakland's own Tony Tony Tony Moprim is one of 0:01:20.956 --> 0:01:22.436 the only people you can go to to get the 0:01:22.436 --> 0:01:25.036 truth about Pac and for the first time, Moprim is 0:01:25.036 --> 0:01:28.076 telling his story. It's the first ever insider account of 0:01:28.116 --> 0:01:32.276 the Shakuor family, a book about brotherhood, survival, movement building, 0:01:32.836 --> 0:01:38.796 and of course the making of Tupac's legend. This is 0:01:38.876 --> 0:01:48.196 broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview with 0:01:48.316 --> 0:01:54.356 Moprim shakur Yo. There's so much to say, so. 0:01:54.276 --> 0:01:55.396 You gotta come up with for dinner. 0:01:55.916 --> 0:01:58.996 Man, please please, man, more than happy if you guys 0:01:59.036 --> 0:02:01.996 have ever in Long Beach, man a come through. We 0:02:02.156 --> 0:02:05.196 right up here, happy to come through any time. 0:02:05.236 --> 0:02:05.396 Man. 0:02:06.676 --> 0:02:08.676 I have a lot of love of a lot of 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:10.916 love for you know, have a lot of love for 0:02:10.956 --> 0:02:13.716 your family, appreciate you. A lot of love for the 0:02:13.716 --> 0:02:17.916 black panther struggle, for the struggle for black liberation. Absolutely, 0:02:18.716 --> 0:02:22.356 and uh so just the fact that you know these 0:02:22.356 --> 0:02:24.276 are all the things that you come from. I mean, 0:02:24.396 --> 0:02:26.596 it's just going through your book. I mean, I guess 0:02:26.596 --> 0:02:28.556 we could start at the end here. Please my book 0:02:28.636 --> 0:02:31.916 y'all know, I mean, it's so it's really well written, 0:02:31.996 --> 0:02:35.436 it's beautifully written, and we've set a lot of histories, 0:02:35.476 --> 0:02:38.076 but just just the closing graph. And when you think 0:02:38.116 --> 0:02:42.956 about this, when you say the closing graph, Thug and Piece, Tupacamarshakor, 0:02:43.356 --> 0:02:48.796 Fanny Shakur, Matulus Shakur, Joseph Uncle, Joey Harding, Falani, Suni, Ali, 0:02:49.636 --> 0:02:55.956 Yaki Kadafi, Quincy Jones, Lisa, Leftie Lopez, Clarence Henry, you know, Shock, 0:02:56.076 --> 0:03:01.236 g Big, Psych, Stretch, Big d Evans, Nate Dog, John Singleton, 0:03:02.516 --> 0:03:06.036 g Money, Young, Noble Laylah. I'm not even naming everyone. 0:03:06.116 --> 0:03:11.076 Johnny cockran Uh, I mean geroniment to Joga Prat. I mean, 0:03:11.636 --> 0:03:17.076 there's so many lives that both you and your brother yeah, 0:03:17.236 --> 0:03:22.956 touched by and and it's just incredible, man, It's just incredible. 0:03:23.036 --> 0:03:26.236 Ye it's been a ride, you know, you know, the 0:03:26.356 --> 0:03:29.276 younger part of our lives were busy trying to live it. 0:03:30.636 --> 0:03:33.876 And uh now in my latter. 0:03:33.716 --> 0:03:37.916 Years, you know, been thinking about the impact and you know, 0:03:38.276 --> 0:03:41.476 we weren't perfect, but we made an impact. You know, 0:03:42.036 --> 0:03:49.036 I feel like we impacted our communities positively. So being 0:03:49.116 --> 0:03:53.756 that we've lost so many family and crew. You know, 0:03:54.156 --> 0:03:56.516 so I'm one of the few that could tell a 0:03:56.636 --> 0:03:58.076 story to been around the longest. 0:03:58.556 --> 0:04:00.996 How long had you been wanting to tell this story? 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:02.836 I mean, what did it? Did it take you get 0:04:02.916 --> 0:04:05.396 into a certain point where you felt you could reflect 0:04:05.436 --> 0:04:07.076 and then and then get it down. 0:04:07.196 --> 0:04:10.596 Or did you I started when I was locked up. 0:04:11.396 --> 0:04:13.916 I was locked up doing something silly. I'm sitting there 0:04:13.956 --> 0:04:20.116 thinking about myself and thinking about my life, and I'm like, Okay, 0:04:20.236 --> 0:04:22.676 this would be a productive thing to do. Get started 0:04:22.756 --> 0:04:25.996 on because I knew it was gonna be necessary then 0:04:26.516 --> 0:04:29.476 and over the years, do a little bit, keep going, 0:04:29.516 --> 0:04:30.156 do a little bit. 0:04:30.716 --> 0:04:33.236 Then we got to the point where I needed help. 0:04:33.956 --> 0:04:38.676 And then uh, bean, Talia, you know once, you know, 0:04:38.916 --> 0:04:41.916 once we got together on an and agent shout out 0:04:42.196 --> 0:04:42.716 to John. 0:04:43.276 --> 0:04:45.196 It was it was it was an experience. It's a 0:04:45.236 --> 0:04:47.356 lot of work. It was more work than I thought. Yeah. 0:04:47.636 --> 0:04:49.356 Yeah, but I mean, thank god you have a great 0:04:49.396 --> 0:04:51.596 wife and Talia. It seems like she really helps you 0:04:51.716 --> 0:04:55.276 keep She really seems to know your history, man or 0:04:55.356 --> 0:04:57.196 care and deep deeply care and knows it. 0:04:57.516 --> 0:05:00.636 She's highly educated, She's Ford fellow. 0:05:01.396 --> 0:05:03.596 Uh you know what I'm saying, and why you masters 0:05:03.636 --> 0:05:05.076 all that. I ain't got all that. I got it. 0:05:05.156 --> 0:05:07.396 I got a street PhD. You know what I'm saying. 0:05:07.956 --> 0:05:13.476 But uh, all the academic work is, you know, to 0:05:13.596 --> 0:05:14.836 her credit, it's amazing. 0:05:15.556 --> 0:05:20.556 And you know she has a degree in Africana studies 0:05:20.796 --> 0:05:26.036 and Latin history and studies, you know, which was necessary 0:05:26.236 --> 0:05:29.076 in my story because a lot of my family was 0:05:29.196 --> 0:05:35.876 connected to these international issues. You know, we were Pan Africans, 0:05:36.356 --> 0:05:40.596 pan Africanism. You know, my father helped fight and revolutions 0:05:40.636 --> 0:05:41.156 in Africa. 0:05:41.916 --> 0:05:45.316 You know, so you thought it was necessary. 0:05:45.476 --> 0:05:47.236 At what point in your life did it hit you like, 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:49.596 what being the son of a tul like that, you 0:05:49.716 --> 0:05:51.716 were the son of a tulushah Kore and what that 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:54.116 the heaviness of that, what that entailed? 0:05:54.756 --> 0:05:56.036 When I was. 0:05:58.876 --> 0:06:03.796 When I was like fourteen, and I saw the article 0:06:04.716 --> 0:06:06.156 in the New York Times. 0:06:09.236 --> 0:06:11.756 A terrorists WHOA You. 0:06:11.796 --> 0:06:14.516 Tell the story in the book about coming to the 0:06:14.596 --> 0:06:16.636 top of the stairs one night because you heard your 0:06:16.716 --> 0:06:19.436 dad arguing with someone and you see a bag of 0:06:20.036 --> 0:06:22.476 rifles and you're thinking, yeah, yeah, And I. 0:06:24.276 --> 0:06:26.756 Hadn't seen him kind of rifles before I was a shorty. 0:06:26.876 --> 0:06:33.676 I was like seven seven eight and I was like, yo, 0:06:35.396 --> 0:06:37.236 I don't want of news with me. You got a 0:06:37.276 --> 0:06:39.116 bunch of them in there. I don't want of them 0:06:39.196 --> 0:06:42.476 to me, you know. I was so, you know, but 0:06:43.596 --> 0:06:46.516 I knew related to something intense and serious because he 0:06:46.716 --> 0:06:50.996 was arguing with my brother's mother Moto at the time. 0:06:51.596 --> 0:06:52.196 I was like, whoa. 0:06:53.436 --> 0:06:56.356 And I just never seen m sixteen before. You know, 0:06:56.476 --> 0:07:01.556 I've been down south shooting Remington rifles and Daisy Daisy 0:07:01.636 --> 0:07:04.956 BB guns. But I hadn't seen that before. But it 0:07:05.036 --> 0:07:07.236 didn't register. Yeah, you know, it didn't register. 0:07:07.956 --> 0:07:09.316 But you see that New York Times ard call, and 0:07:09.316 --> 0:07:12.036 all of a sudden, you're putting the pieces together at 0:07:12.076 --> 0:07:12.596 that point. 0:07:12.396 --> 0:07:18.436 And then I see with Tulu Shakur mastermind. I was like, oh, whoa. 0:07:19.516 --> 0:07:22.156 So I was like, oh boy, it's going down. 0:07:22.916 --> 0:07:25.076 I mean, was the overwhelming sense at that point when 0:07:25.116 --> 0:07:28.356 you read that like fear for fear for your family, fear. 0:07:28.196 --> 0:07:35.516 For anxiety, okay, anxiety. I'm like, what did that mean? 0:07:35.996 --> 0:07:37.276 Where you know? 0:07:37.796 --> 0:07:37.916 Uh? 0:07:40.596 --> 0:07:42.676 Where are you? Where are these rifles going to be 0:07:42.716 --> 0:07:46.836 shot at? You know, didn't know? Yeah, didn't know. 0:07:47.356 --> 0:07:51.956 Then I'm with my mother and I see the FBI 0:07:52.076 --> 0:07:54.876 wanted post in the post office that. You know, you 0:07:54.996 --> 0:07:57.276 see that in movies, but that really happened to me. 0:07:57.436 --> 0:08:02.516 I was like, you know, FBI most wanted and I 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:06.356 got sad because I didn't know. I know that meant 0:08:06.436 --> 0:08:10.636 trouble simply, I know it meant and I didn't know 0:08:11.116 --> 0:08:12.356 when I would see him again. 0:08:12.756 --> 0:08:15.796 Yeah. Yeah, so that that bothered me. 0:08:16.356 --> 0:08:22.076 But you know, people often confuse my father and a 0:08:22.236 --> 0:08:26.676 Feiny's political assignments. A Feany was in the Black Panthers, 0:08:26.716 --> 0:08:29.796 a Harlem chapter of the Black Panthers. My father, Matulu Chico, 0:08:29.956 --> 0:08:32.916 was not a Black Panther. He was in the Black 0:08:32.956 --> 0:08:39.076 Liberation Army and part of the provencial government of the 0:08:39.156 --> 0:08:44.436 Republic of New Africa. But they supported each other. You know, 0:08:44.716 --> 0:08:47.476 all these groups supported each other, the weather underground, all 0:08:47.556 --> 0:08:53.516 these different groups, anti war, anti poverty, these people were 0:08:53.556 --> 0:08:56.236 starting to work together. Even Malcolm and Martin were starting 0:08:56.316 --> 0:09:01.436 to connect, you know, before he was murdered. 0:09:01.676 --> 0:09:03.836 There were a lot of radical groups, not just the 0:09:03.876 --> 0:09:09.596 Black Panthers at that time, working to civil society right 0:09:09.956 --> 0:09:11.756 through I government. 0:09:11.556 --> 0:09:17.876 The Irish ira folks. I mean, you know, they were 0:09:18.276 --> 0:09:21.556 connected with the struggles of the world. Yeah, and that 0:09:21.996 --> 0:09:25.356 that I respect it because we ain't the only ones 0:09:25.436 --> 0:09:30.396 going through something, and we need allies to fight these battles. 0:09:31.116 --> 0:09:34.396 And if you you know, and you know there's power 0:09:34.476 --> 0:09:37.716 and numbers work together. That made sense to me. 0:09:38.236 --> 0:09:40.996 Yeah, a lot of people think that probably you're like 0:09:41.196 --> 0:09:46.676 your childhood and Pox's childhood was was just getting indoctrinated 0:09:46.716 --> 0:09:51.996 by theory, like all day every day. What was I 0:09:52.116 --> 0:09:54.716 imagine reality is a little different. Imagine there was a balance. 0:09:54.836 --> 0:09:55.076 There was. 0:09:55.756 --> 0:10:00.076 I'm sure there was, you know, moments where it wasn't 0:10:00.236 --> 0:10:03.956 just being taught about the struggles around the global struggle 0:10:04.036 --> 0:10:05.956 and the black struggle and how the black struggle relates 0:10:05.996 --> 0:10:08.796 to whatever, like what so what was the balance at home? 0:10:08.836 --> 0:10:12.756 How much was it being taught you know, those global conflicts. 0:10:12.956 --> 0:10:16.636 And then also that it was just normal family life. 0:10:16.916 --> 0:10:19.676 Well, when I live with a Fannatulu, they were it 0:10:19.756 --> 0:10:23.756 seemed they were trying to open us up to the 0:10:23.876 --> 0:10:28.916 world as opposed to you know, the sick America. You know, 0:10:29.916 --> 0:10:33.756 the different cultures. I mean, because we we practiced quansa. 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:36.516 When I'm with them, we practice quansas. But don't get 0:10:36.556 --> 0:10:40.196 it twisted. I love me some Christmas, okay, you know, 0:10:40.596 --> 0:10:43.636 and uh, there was room there was room for both 0:10:43.956 --> 0:10:46.836 it was room for both. It was room and I'm 0:10:46.916 --> 0:10:51.716 glad I got both of those experiences because it makes you, 0:10:52.196 --> 0:10:54.756 you know, smarter, Yeah, I feel Yeah. 0:10:54.596 --> 0:10:57.676 It gives you a complex. It gives you a more 0:10:57.716 --> 0:11:01.876 complete picture of the world. But how and how was 0:11:01.956 --> 0:11:04.596 it perceived in the rest of the neighborhood, because I'm 0:11:04.636 --> 0:11:07.796 sure also, you know entime neighbor wasn't full of the Revolutionariya, 0:11:07.876 --> 0:11:09.596 So for people the neighbor kind of look like your 0:11:09.636 --> 0:11:10.876 parents are heavy or is. 0:11:10.876 --> 0:11:14.556 It like I grew up in Southside Jamaica, Queens, so 0:11:15.156 --> 0:11:19.836 you know, Queens is Queens, New York, New Jersey. There's 0:11:19.876 --> 0:11:23.476 a lot of you know, there's a lot of those movements, 0:11:23.796 --> 0:11:28.836 the Fiper Centers, the Moor's and you know a lot 0:11:28.916 --> 0:11:33.196 of island people up that way, and uh, they kind 0:11:33.236 --> 0:11:33.876 of understood. 0:11:33.916 --> 0:11:35.996 But my in my neighborhood was stugged out. 0:11:36.756 --> 0:11:39.716 So when I came around my little koofi and my dashiki, 0:11:40.556 --> 0:11:43.436 you know what I mean, I looked a little different, 0:11:43.516 --> 0:11:46.476 but I felt good. My little African medallion. You know, 0:11:47.916 --> 0:11:50.676 my father wore a lot of African jewelry with with 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:56.996 with shells and beads and different colored stones and leather 0:11:57.156 --> 0:11:57.716 and different, you. 0:11:57.756 --> 0:12:00.556 Know what I mean, Like that could be cool too, 0:12:01.636 --> 0:12:05.756 because Matula was the coolest. You know, he was the coolest. Yeah, 0:12:05.756 --> 0:12:07.316 you're put in the book that even before I mean 0:12:07.396 --> 0:12:09.996 like long before he was ever, when he was just 0:12:10.236 --> 0:12:15.236 Gerald was his birth name, Darrell. Excuse me, he was 0:12:15.276 --> 0:12:17.396 always the coolest. You you said that he could always 0:12:17.436 --> 0:12:19.996 get away with the most and dressed the fliest and 0:12:20.436 --> 0:12:22.156 even within his own way. 0:12:24.116 --> 0:12:27.596 Dude, in his uh in the in one of the 0:12:27.756 --> 0:12:32.236 FBI files, I think it's on his wonder poster, it says. 0:12:32.836 --> 0:12:33.076 Uh. 0:12:35.076 --> 0:12:39.196 Know, the frequent fine dining establishments, you know what I mean. 0:12:39.276 --> 0:12:41.196 He had a particular type of out. 0:12:41.276 --> 0:12:42.036 He liked food. 0:12:43.196 --> 0:12:47.236 You know. He was a people person. Yeah, people, and 0:12:47.316 --> 0:12:50.156 he loved kids. He loved kids and he was a 0:12:50.196 --> 0:12:54.956 people person. And that's what you know Republican New Africa, 0:12:55.036 --> 0:12:57.196 Republic of New Africa was doing. They were setting up 0:12:57.236 --> 0:13:03.156 camps training our youth like white folks were training their youth. 0:13:05.196 --> 0:13:06.356 That's where the rifles were going. 0:13:07.396 --> 0:13:11.276 I know, you and Pot shared a bunk. So I 0:13:11.396 --> 0:13:14.356 imagine like a live two little kids at home, and 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:16.836 so as I rolled up, I'll kind of go down 0:13:16.876 --> 0:13:18.956 the hallway. I hear on John at night when it's 0:13:18.956 --> 0:13:22.156 supposed to be asleep and stuff. What were the things 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:24.956 you and Pop just connected over as kids? What was 0:13:26.636 --> 0:13:29.716 what were what was your guys's relationship? 0:13:30.276 --> 0:13:33.316 Well, at that time, he was real little, so he 0:13:33.476 --> 0:13:36.636 wanted to you know, he was looking at me. He 0:13:36.756 --> 0:13:39.636 wanted to be like me, like you know, and and 0:13:40.636 --> 0:13:42.636 I had the advantage of being with my mother and 0:13:42.756 --> 0:13:46.636 queens and having Christmas. So but when I would come 0:13:46.796 --> 0:13:49.676 back to Matulu and the fainties, I'll have new stuff, 0:13:49.796 --> 0:13:53.156 different stuff that he would like. And uh, you know, 0:13:53.316 --> 0:13:55.836 he's soaking up the game. I had some poonas he 0:13:55.916 --> 0:14:00.116 wanted some poons, you know, poons was and ship and uh, 0:14:00.716 --> 0:14:03.356 you know, I try to guide him in the right direction. 0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:09.596 We we loved food and we always fought together at 0:14:09.636 --> 0:14:12.676 our cousins up in the Bronx got a but the 0:14:12.756 --> 0:14:16.156 licens shout out to the licenes up in the Bronx 0:14:16.276 --> 0:14:19.836 Leeland projects. My father would drop us off up there 0:14:19.836 --> 0:14:21.996 because there was a bunch of boy cousins. You know 0:14:22.116 --> 0:14:26.236 that the boys go play with the boys, and they 0:14:26.356 --> 0:14:31.276 was always into something. My cousin Kenny, my cousin Billy. Yo, 0:14:31.396 --> 0:14:35.556 they're wild, but they very lovable, very lovable and they 0:14:35.556 --> 0:14:37.516 would be always into some shit. And you know the 0:14:37.596 --> 0:14:42.236 cousins fight with the cousins, you know, so it was 0:14:42.316 --> 0:14:46.076 a bonding. It created a bonding thing. Oh and we 0:14:46.196 --> 0:14:46.756 love karate. 0:14:47.916 --> 0:14:48.236 Karate. 0:14:48.396 --> 0:14:50.916 Bruce Lee was the man at the time, So everybody 0:14:51.076 --> 0:14:54.676 was Bruce Lee, black, white, yellow. We all Bruce Lee. 0:14:55.116 --> 0:14:57.796 We all had our geys karate slippers. 0:14:58.476 --> 0:14:58.676 Yeah. 0:14:58.916 --> 0:15:00.596 So that's the time you were on, was Bruce Lee. 0:15:01.116 --> 0:15:03.316 Oh yeah, yeah, that's why I ended up breaking my arm. 0:15:03.436 --> 0:15:07.596 We Mtulu too because Mtulu was a brown belt and 0:15:07.636 --> 0:15:08.276 cut take. 0:15:08.716 --> 0:15:11.436 Yeah, and you you guys were in karate, right, you 0:15:11.516 --> 0:15:12.636 guys were the arts. 0:15:12.796 --> 0:15:12.996 Yeah. 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:15.876 He takes us to the Black Panther the karate school. Yeah, 0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:18.836 and we we we learned a little bit. You know, 0:15:18.956 --> 0:15:23.156 we be standing there in our horse stand since they 0:15:23.276 --> 0:15:28.756 come kick his trip us on our butt and pocked 0:15:28.796 --> 0:15:31.236 and not like that very much, but you know that 0:15:31.436 --> 0:15:33.036 was That's how it was. 0:15:34.076 --> 0:15:37.076 Was he always uh like a like a I don't 0:15:37.116 --> 0:15:39.076 know how to respectable, like a hot head. Was he 0:15:39.156 --> 0:15:41.876 always uh always a temper in that way. 0:15:43.596 --> 0:15:45.836 He did have a temper and he had a he 0:15:45.916 --> 0:15:48.476 had a big mouth. He'll tell you himself. He had 0:15:48.516 --> 0:15:54.556 a big mouth, and you would have to be smarter 0:15:54.676 --> 0:15:58.476 than his mouth. I mean, that's how I said. You know, 0:15:58.876 --> 0:16:01.076 you have to be able to control your your your 0:16:01.156 --> 0:16:04.956 own emotions and temper and try to connect with him 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:10.596 because he was very passionate. He's very genuine and it 0:16:10.756 --> 0:16:14.836 was sort of reactive, but you know it's coming straight 0:16:14.876 --> 0:16:15.356 from his heart. 0:16:15.396 --> 0:16:16.316 How would that come up with you? 0:16:16.396 --> 0:16:16.596 Guys? 0:16:16.636 --> 0:16:19.156 Between you two as kids when you were younger. 0:16:19.996 --> 0:16:23.436 Fighting Not only did we fight with our cousins, we 0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:28.676 karate fight, played karate fight all that. You know, that 0:16:28.836 --> 0:16:29.556 was a real thing. 0:16:30.556 --> 0:16:33.196 And uh, you know, I was bigger than him and 0:16:33.276 --> 0:16:36.916 sometimes I hit him too hard and he get pissed off. 0:16:37.356 --> 0:16:39.996 He get pissed off a little, all the big eyebrows 0:16:40.476 --> 0:16:42.196 and you know when he was when he was mad, 0:16:42.396 --> 0:16:46.116 and you know, it's like dude, you know. And he 0:16:46.356 --> 0:16:49.076 was two three years old, so he wasn't really used 0:16:49.076 --> 0:16:50.436 to having a brother yet. 0:16:50.876 --> 0:16:54.396 And you know, but we got we got, we got, 0:16:54.756 --> 0:16:55.356 we got tight. 0:16:55.676 --> 0:16:57.756 It was a real big brother, little brother dynamic. 0:16:57.876 --> 0:17:01.436 Then yeah, and then Matulu would walk us to school 0:17:01.636 --> 0:17:04.476 hand in hand. You know, felt like leave it to 0:17:04.516 --> 0:17:08.996 Beaver was some ship. But walking down the streets to Harlem. Yeah, men, 0:17:09.196 --> 0:17:12.116 one side, park on the other walking us to school. 0:17:12.836 --> 0:17:14.916 And you mentioned in the sayings like park. For a 0:17:14.956 --> 0:17:18.996 long time, I grew up thinking that Billy was his father, right. 0:17:19.396 --> 0:17:22.156 No, you're talking about Billy Garland. I'm telling excuse me, 0:17:24.956 --> 0:17:29.036 Gloria Cox our globe. That's a fainty sister. Okay, and 0:17:29.236 --> 0:17:32.436 she I think she got ten kids. There's a bunch 0:17:32.476 --> 0:17:33.796 of We got a bunch of cousins. 0:17:33.916 --> 0:17:36.556 Yeah, got his family is wild, their family tree is wild. 0:17:36.796 --> 0:17:40.396 Yeah. Yeah. So you know, we were all in New York. 0:17:42.116 --> 0:17:44.956 You know, we were all in New York and while 0:17:44.996 --> 0:17:48.676 we were growing up, you know, doing the school thing, 0:17:49.756 --> 0:17:52.916 our parents were doing they thing, you. 0:17:52.956 --> 0:18:03.516 Know, and until eighty one, until Nayak went down. 0:18:03.716 --> 0:18:05.636 You want, do you want to lay out that story 0:18:05.676 --> 0:18:07.276 for me for people who don't know, just kind of 0:18:07.356 --> 0:18:10.716 how like the importance of nayaking and all of this 0:18:10.836 --> 0:18:13.716 and your your father's story and Okay. 0:18:14.196 --> 0:18:20.356 In Nyack, New York, there was an appropriation in progress 0:18:21.636 --> 0:18:26.876 at a shopping center in Nyack, New York, and in 0:18:26.996 --> 0:18:31.276 which a security guard and police officer was killed. And 0:18:31.956 --> 0:18:36.116 at that point a lot of the comrades went on 0:18:36.276 --> 0:18:41.836 the run, most of them got caught and Matulau stayed 0:18:41.876 --> 0:18:44.956 on the run. He was on the run for like 0:18:45.076 --> 0:18:50.836 five years. He was accused of being part of that. 0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:54.556 He was charged. She did his time for that, as 0:18:54.636 --> 0:18:56.636 well as deliberation of a side of chicaur. 0:18:57.516 --> 0:19:00.076 He was captured getting out of prison. 0:19:00.156 --> 0:19:04.156 Correct in which she stayed free until our last days, 0:19:05.956 --> 0:19:11.076 and Matulau ended up serving thirty seven close to. 0:19:11.116 --> 0:19:13.836 Thirty eight years. You know, he paid for it. 0:19:14.556 --> 0:19:18.676 But you know, he was a true political prisoner, which 0:19:18.756 --> 0:19:22.476 this country doesn't say that we have, but his his 0:19:23.156 --> 0:19:26.476 his motives were clearly political in nature. 0:19:27.116 --> 0:19:31.476 You know. Yeah, did your dad and Asada did they 0:19:31.516 --> 0:19:33.596 ever get a was there ever a way for them 0:19:33.636 --> 0:19:36.636 to back channel? And over the course of time. 0:19:36.516 --> 0:19:42.076 And it was just too dangerous that I think he 0:19:42.276 --> 0:19:45.076 was getting some messages from someone I just don't know who, 0:19:45.676 --> 0:19:49.036 you know, But they weren't frequent. It was just a 0:19:49.876 --> 0:19:53.076 check in type thing. Even though she wasn't captured. She 0:19:53.316 --> 0:19:56.196 was free in Cuba, and she would make her own 0:19:56.316 --> 0:20:02.196 moves and you know, but they stayed, you know, they 0:20:02.556 --> 0:20:05.156 did as much as they could. It was that's why 0:20:05.156 --> 0:20:08.636 I keep talking about the level of commitment in those days. 0:20:09.716 --> 0:20:16.356 The times are little times are different, but the social 0:20:16.996 --> 0:20:22.196 impact they were having was way more intense. You know, 0:20:23.356 --> 0:20:26.636 the anti war folks were blowing up buildings in the US. 0:20:28.516 --> 0:20:33.236 There was appropriations, there was jail breaks because you know, 0:20:33.396 --> 0:20:38.076 things are unfair. Pressure bus pipes, pressure bus pipes, and 0:20:39.916 --> 0:20:41.796 kind of like you know the politics of the Republican 0:20:41.876 --> 0:20:45.156 New Africa. Okay, you don't like us, you don't like us, 0:20:45.436 --> 0:20:49.036 you don't like us, okay, okay, Well we could solve 0:20:49.076 --> 0:20:56.596 this peacefully by you people giving us these particular states 0:20:58.476 --> 0:21:02.596 to be run by us our people. Since you don't 0:21:02.676 --> 0:21:05.156 like us, you can't let you sell you just just 0:21:05.156 --> 0:21:06.956 supposed to let you just kill us all up and 0:21:07.356 --> 0:21:11.236 you know, abuse us. So we're going to have these 0:21:11.316 --> 0:21:15.116 states and we're going to build our own nation because 0:21:15.196 --> 0:21:17.556 we have not as well, we have not been paid 0:21:18.516 --> 0:21:24.516 back reparations, which you know, it's conveniently forgotten over how 0:21:24.596 --> 0:21:28.556 many years, So that that's kind of their thinking. 0:21:28.916 --> 0:21:32.636 Yeah, and if you don't give it to us, we 0:21:32.756 --> 0:21:35.476 will have to make other arrangements. 0:21:35.636 --> 0:21:37.516 About to figure out how to get that in ourselves. 0:21:37.676 --> 0:21:40.716 Yeah, we got just going to accept no. Okay, you 0:21:40.836 --> 0:21:44.076 know they just weren't accepting no and accept the conditions 0:21:44.236 --> 0:21:49.156 of our exactly exactly. The difference to me is, you know, 0:21:49.316 --> 0:21:53.236 late sixties, early to mid seventies, there were a lot 0:21:53.316 --> 0:21:57.996 of there was assassinations, you know here in the US. 0:21:58.676 --> 0:22:01.756 They were assassinations from Malcolm Martin. 0:22:01.516 --> 0:22:07.556 Medgar Kennedy and plus Fred Hampton. We can go on. 0:22:07.876 --> 0:22:13.796 Yeah, yes, correct, The level of commitment was way more serious. 0:22:14.116 --> 0:22:16.156 When you were young. At any point, did you think 0:22:17.356 --> 0:22:18.676 that was going to be your life? You would take 0:22:18.756 --> 0:22:22.316 up that mantle and be a revolutionary as well, and 0:22:22.396 --> 0:22:23.916 that in the same way that your father was. 0:22:24.236 --> 0:22:27.836 Yeah, because we looked up to our uncles bah blah 0:22:27.876 --> 0:22:32.476 blahlaud baba say cool geronimo. We looked up to them, 0:22:33.236 --> 0:22:35.676 but a lot of bad things started happening to them 0:22:36.196 --> 0:22:41.036 and other uncles that were either where's uncle? Also, oh 0:22:41.116 --> 0:22:43.596 he you know he's locked up now, and you know 0:22:44.196 --> 0:22:48.716 once they go to jail. You know, that broke a 0:22:48.756 --> 0:22:53.116 lot of connections. Jail all murdered, jail all murdered, jail 0:22:53.196 --> 0:22:57.236 all murdered systematically because of co and tail Pro. 0:22:57.916 --> 0:23:01.796 Yeah, and you even believe perhaps that cointel Pro is 0:23:01.876 --> 0:23:05.556 operating on some level, maybe under another name, some version 0:23:05.596 --> 0:23:08.236 of co intel Pro in the background. 0:23:08.276 --> 0:23:13.316 Of pox career correct under a different name, under different name, 0:23:13.396 --> 0:23:19.236 same tactics, because why because they worked, they worked. You know, 0:23:19.436 --> 0:23:22.556 the significant thing I think about our story is that 0:23:22.796 --> 0:23:26.516 we were like the last major significant story of the 0:23:26.556 --> 0:23:30.356 Panthers of the era that after us the liberation of 0:23:30.436 --> 0:23:31.956 Asada too. 0:23:32.596 --> 0:23:38.436 After that period, you know that that that liberation movement. 0:23:38.356 --> 0:23:41.716 Was was goed yeh yeh, or it just was fractured 0:23:41.716 --> 0:23:44.036 of the point of just not being as powerful a 0:23:44.076 --> 0:23:46.036 repotement as it as it was. 0:23:46.636 --> 0:23:46.836 Yeah. 0:23:47.436 --> 0:23:49.916 But while the thing that that you joined the military 0:23:50.236 --> 0:23:55.316 ally and they didn't know who you were, that they 0:23:55.476 --> 0:23:57.636 let you exactly. 0:23:58.716 --> 0:24:02.676 And you know, after my father got captured, I was 0:24:02.756 --> 0:24:06.476 definitely gonna talk to him about it. But he knows 0:24:06.596 --> 0:24:09.236 like I knew growing up. He would always call this 0:24:09.316 --> 0:24:11.396