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Speaker 1: Pushkin. One of the most important artists of my life

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Speaker 1: is Tupac Shakor. One of the earliest memories I have,

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Speaker 1: in fact of watching music on TV is seeing Tupac

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Speaker 1: Shacor on SNL and then Biggie not that much later.

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Speaker 1: But since Tupac died in Las Vegas, there's been all

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Speaker 1: kinds of conspiracy surrounding his life and death, and his

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Speaker 1: legacy has been picked over in ways that feel kind

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Speaker 1: of demeaning to his music and to who he was

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Speaker 1: as a person. So I've always avoided any interviews that

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with Tupac. That is, of course,

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Speaker 1: until moprim Shakor, Tupac's half brother, put out his new

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Speaker 1: book This Thug's Life. Moprimam himself is a rapper, filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: and record producer living at the intersection of revolutionary politics

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Speaker 1: and hip hop. He's also one of the only surviving

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Speaker 1: members of Tupac's group Outlaw Mortals, and the only surviving

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Speaker 1: member of Tupac's other group, Thug Life. He was raised

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Speaker 1: along with Tupac and the tradition of black liberation activism

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Speaker 1: them and shaped by the streets of Queens and also

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Speaker 1: the stages of the world, not just with his brother,

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Speaker 1: but with his own groups and also, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: with Oakland's own Tony Tony Tony Moprim is one of

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Speaker 1: the only people you can go to to get the

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Speaker 1: truth about Pac and for the first time, Moprim is

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Speaker 1: telling his story. It's the first ever insider account of

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Speaker 1: the Shakuor family, a book about brotherhood, survival, movement building,

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Speaker 1: and of course the making of Tupac's legend. This is

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Speaker 1: broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview with

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Speaker 1: Moprim shakur Yo. There's so much to say, so.

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Speaker 2: You gotta come up with for dinner.

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Speaker 1: Man, please please, man, more than happy if you guys

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Speaker 1: have ever in Long Beach, man a come through. We

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Speaker 1: right up here, happy to come through any time.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of love of a lot of

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Speaker 1: love for you know, have a lot of love for

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Speaker 1: your family, appreciate you. A lot of love for the

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Speaker 1: black panther struggle, for the struggle for black liberation. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and uh so just the fact that you know these

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Speaker 1: are all the things that you come from. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just going through your book. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: we could start at the end here. Please my book

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Speaker 1: y'all know, I mean, it's so it's really well written,

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Speaker 1: it's beautifully written, and we've set a lot of histories,

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Speaker 1: but just just the closing graph. And when you think

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Speaker 1: about this, when you say the closing graph, Thug and Piece, Tupacamarshakor,

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Speaker 1: Fanny Shakur, Matulus Shakur, Joseph Uncle, Joey Harding, Falani, Suni, Ali,

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Speaker 1: Yaki Kadafi, Quincy Jones, Lisa, Leftie Lopez, Clarence Henry, you know, Shock,

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Speaker 1: g Big, Psych, Stretch, Big d Evans, Nate Dog, John Singleton,

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Speaker 1: g Money, Young, Noble Laylah. I'm not even naming everyone.

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Speaker 1: Johnny cockran Uh, I mean geroniment to Joga Prat. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's so many lives that both you and your brother yeah,

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Speaker 1: touched by and and it's just incredible, man, It's just incredible.

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Speaker 3: Ye it's been a ride, you know, you know, the

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Speaker 3: younger part of our lives were busy trying to live it.

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Speaker 2: And uh now in my latter.

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Speaker 3: Years, you know, been thinking about the impact and you know,

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Speaker 3: we weren't perfect, but we made an impact. You know,

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Speaker 3: I feel like we impacted our communities positively. So being

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Speaker 3: that we've lost so many family and crew. You know,

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Speaker 3: so I'm one of the few that could tell a

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Speaker 3: story to been around the longest.

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Speaker 1: How long had you been wanting to tell this story?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what did it? Did it take you get

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Speaker 1: into a certain point where you felt you could reflect

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Speaker 1: and then and then get it down.

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Speaker 3: Or did you I started when I was locked up.

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Speaker 3: I was locked up doing something silly. I'm sitting there

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Speaker 3: thinking about myself and thinking about my life, and I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: this would be a productive thing to do. Get started

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Speaker 3: on because I knew it was gonna be necessary then

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Speaker 3: and over the years, do a little bit, keep going,

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Speaker 3: do a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Then we got to the point where I needed help.

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Speaker 3: And then uh, bean, Talia, you know once, you know,

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Speaker 3: once we got together on an and agent shout out

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Speaker 3: to John.

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Speaker 2: It was it was it was an experience. It's a

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Speaker 2: lot of work. It was more work than I thought. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, thank god you have a great

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Speaker 1: wife and Talia. It seems like she really helps you

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Speaker 1: keep She really seems to know your history, man or

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Speaker 1: care and deep deeply care and knows it.

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Speaker 3: She's highly educated, She's Ford fellow.

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Speaker 2: Uh you know what I'm saying, and why you masters

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Speaker 2: all that. I ain't got all that. I got it.

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Speaker 2: I got a street PhD. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: But uh, all the academic work is, you know, to

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Speaker 2: her credit, it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: And you know she has a degree in Africana studies

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Speaker 3: and Latin history and studies, you know, which was necessary

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Speaker 3: in my story because a lot of my family was

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Speaker 3: connected to these international issues. You know, we were Pan Africans,

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Speaker 3: pan Africanism. You know, my father helped fight and revolutions

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Speaker 3: in Africa.

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Speaker 2: You know, so you thought it was necessary.

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Speaker 1: At what point in your life did it hit you like,

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Speaker 1: what being the son of a tul like that, you

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Speaker 1: were the son of a tulushah Kore and what that

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Speaker 1: the heaviness of that, what that entailed?

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Speaker 2: When I was.

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Speaker 3: When I was like fourteen, and I saw the article

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Speaker 3: in the New York Times.

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Speaker 2: A terrorists WHOA You.

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Speaker 1: Tell the story in the book about coming to the

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Speaker 1: top of the stairs one night because you heard your

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Speaker 1: dad arguing with someone and you see a bag of

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Speaker 1: rifles and you're thinking, yeah, yeah, And I.

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Speaker 2: Hadn't seen him kind of rifles before I was a shorty.

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Speaker 3: I was like seven seven eight and I was like, yo,

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Speaker 3: I don't want of news with me. You got a

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Speaker 3: bunch of them in there. I don't want of them

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Speaker 3: to me, you know. I was so, you know, but

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Speaker 3: I knew related to something intense and serious because he

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Speaker 3: was arguing with my brother's mother Moto at the time.

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Speaker 2: I was like, whoa.

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Speaker 3: And I just never seen m sixteen before. You know,

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Speaker 3: I've been down south shooting Remington rifles and Daisy Daisy

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Speaker 3: BB guns. But I hadn't seen that before. But it

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Speaker 3: didn't register. Yeah, you know, it didn't register.

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Speaker 1: But you see that New York Times ard call, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're putting the pieces together at

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Speaker 1: that point.

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Speaker 2: And then I see with Tulu Shakur mastermind. I was like, oh, whoa.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, oh boy, it's going down.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was the overwhelming sense at that point when

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Speaker 1: you read that like fear for fear for your family, fear.

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Speaker 2: For anxiety, okay, anxiety. I'm like, what did that mean?

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Speaker 2: Where you know?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Where are you? Where are these rifles going to be

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Speaker 2: shot at? You know, didn't know? Yeah, didn't know.

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Speaker 3: Then I'm with my mother and I see the FBI

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Speaker 3: wanted post in the post office that. You know, you

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Speaker 3: see that in movies, but that really happened to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, you know, FBI most wanted and I

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Speaker 3: got sad because I didn't know. I know that meant

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Speaker 3: trouble simply, I know it meant and I didn't know

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Speaker 3: when I would see him again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so that that bothered me.

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Speaker 3: But you know, people often confuse my father and a

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Speaker 3: Feiny's political assignments. A Feany was in the Black Panthers,

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Speaker 3: a Harlem chapter of the Black Panthers. My father, Matulu Chico,

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Speaker 3: was not a Black Panther. He was in the Black

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Speaker 3: Liberation Army and part of the provencial government of the

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Speaker 3: Republic of New Africa. But they supported each other. You know,

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Speaker 3: all these groups supported each other, the weather underground, all

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Speaker 3: these different groups, anti war, anti poverty, these people were

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Speaker 3: starting to work together. Even Malcolm and Martin were starting

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Speaker 3: to connect, you know, before he was murdered.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of radical groups, not just the

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Speaker 1: Black Panthers at that time, working to civil society right

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Speaker 1: through I government.

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Speaker 3: The Irish ira folks. I mean, you know, they were

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Speaker 3: connected with the struggles of the world. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 3: that I respect it because we ain't the only ones

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Speaker 3: going through something, and we need allies to fight these battles.

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Speaker 2: And if you you know, and you know there's power

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Speaker 2: and numbers work together. That made sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people think that probably you're like

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Speaker 1: your childhood and Pox's childhood was was just getting indoctrinated

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Speaker 1: by theory, like all day every day. What was I

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Speaker 1: imagine reality is a little different. Imagine there was a balance.

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Speaker 2: There was.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there was, you know, moments where it wasn't

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Speaker 1: just being taught about the struggles around the global struggle

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Speaker 1: and the black struggle and how the black struggle relates

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Speaker 1: to whatever, like what so what was the balance at home?

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Speaker 1: How much was it being taught you know, those global conflicts.

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Speaker 1: And then also that it was just normal family life.

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Speaker 3: Well, when I live with a Fannatulu, they were it

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Speaker 3: seemed they were trying to open us up to the

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Speaker 3: world as opposed to you know, the sick America. You know,

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Speaker 3: the different cultures. I mean, because we we practiced quansa.

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Speaker 3: When I'm with them, we practice quansas. But don't get

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Speaker 3: it twisted. I love me some Christmas, okay, you know,

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Speaker 3: and uh, there was room there was room for both

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Speaker 3: it was room for both. It was room and I'm

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Speaker 3: glad I got both of those experiences because it makes you,

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Speaker 3: you know, smarter, Yeah, I feel Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It gives you a complex. It gives you a more

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Speaker 1: complete picture of the world. But how and how was

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Speaker 1: it perceived in the rest of the neighborhood, because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure also, you know entime neighbor wasn't full of the Revolutionariya,

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Speaker 1: So for people the neighbor kind of look like your

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Speaker 1: parents are heavy or is.

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Speaker 3: It like I grew up in Southside Jamaica, Queens, so

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Speaker 3: you know, Queens is Queens, New York, New Jersey. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of you know, there's a lot of those movements,

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Speaker 3: the Fiper Centers, the Moor's and you know a lot

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Speaker 3: of island people up that way, and uh, they kind

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Speaker 3: of understood.

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Speaker 2: But my in my neighborhood was stugged out.

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Speaker 3: So when I came around my little koofi and my dashiki,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, I looked a little different,

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Speaker 3: but I felt good. My little African medallion. You know,

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Speaker 3: my father wore a lot of African jewelry with with

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Speaker 3: with shells and beads and different colored stones and leather

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Speaker 3: and different, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean, Like that could be cool too,

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Speaker 1: because Matula was the coolest. You know, he was the coolest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're put in the book that even before I mean

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Speaker 1: like long before he was ever, when he was just

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Speaker 1: Gerald was his birth name, Darrell. Excuse me, he was

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Speaker 1: always the coolest. You you said that he could always

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Speaker 1: get away with the most and dressed the fliest and

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Speaker 1: even within his own way.

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Speaker 3: Dude, in his uh in the in one of the

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Speaker 3: FBI files, I think it's on his wonder poster, it says.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Know, the frequent fine dining establishments, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: He had a particular type of out.

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Speaker 2: He liked food.

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Speaker 3: You know. He was a people person. Yeah, people, and

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Speaker 3: he loved kids. He loved kids and he was a

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Speaker 3: people person. And that's what you know Republican New Africa,

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Speaker 3: Republic of New Africa was doing. They were setting up

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Speaker 3: camps training our youth like white folks were training their youth.

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Speaker 2: That's where the rifles were going.

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Speaker 1: I know, you and Pot shared a bunk. So I

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Speaker 1: imagine like a live two little kids at home, and

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Speaker 1: so as I rolled up, I'll kind of go down

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Speaker 1: the hallway. I hear on John at night when it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be asleep and stuff. What were the things

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Speaker 1: you and Pop just connected over as kids? What was

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Speaker 1: what were what was your guys's relationship?

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Speaker 3: Well, at that time, he was real little, so he

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Speaker 3: wanted to you know, he was looking at me. He

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Speaker 3: wanted to be like me, like you know, and and

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Speaker 3: I had the advantage of being with my mother and

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Speaker 3: queens and having Christmas. So but when I would come

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Speaker 3: back to Matulu and the fainties, I'll have new stuff,

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Speaker 3: different stuff that he would like. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's soaking up the game. I had some poonas he

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Speaker 3: wanted some poons, you know, poons was and ship and uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I try to guide him in the right direction.

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Speaker 3: We we loved food and we always fought together at

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Speaker 3: our cousins up in the Bronx got a but the

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Speaker 3: licens shout out to the licenes up in the Bronx

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Speaker 3: Leeland projects. My father would drop us off up there

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Speaker 3: because there was a bunch of boy cousins. You know

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Speaker 3: that the boys go play with the boys, and they

242
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Speaker 3: was always into something. My cousin Kenny, my cousin Billy. Yo,

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Speaker 3: they're wild, but they very lovable, very lovable and they

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Speaker 3: would be always into some shit. And you know the

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Speaker 3: cousins fight with the cousins, you know, so it was

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Speaker 3: a bonding. It created a bonding thing. Oh and we

247
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Speaker 3: love karate.

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Speaker 2: Karate.

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Speaker 3: Bruce Lee was the man at the time, So everybody

250
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Speaker 3: was Bruce Lee, black, white, yellow. We all Bruce Lee.

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Speaker 3: We all had our geys karate slippers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that's the time you were on, was Bruce Lee.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's why I ended up breaking my arm.

255
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Speaker 3: We Mtulu too because Mtulu was a brown belt and

256
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Speaker 3: cut take.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you guys were in karate, right, you

258
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Speaker 1: guys were the arts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He takes us to the Black Panther the karate school. Yeah,

261
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Speaker 3: and we we we learned a little bit. You know,

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Speaker 3: we be standing there in our horse stand since they

263
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Speaker 3: come kick his trip us on our butt and pocked

264
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Speaker 3: and not like that very much, but you know that

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Speaker 3: was That's how it was.

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Speaker 1: Was he always uh like a like a I don't

267
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Speaker 1: know how to respectable, like a hot head. Was he

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Speaker 1: always uh always a temper in that way.

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Speaker 3: He did have a temper and he had a he

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Speaker 3: had a big mouth. He'll tell you himself. He had

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Speaker 3: a big mouth, and you would have to be smarter

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Speaker 3: than his mouth. I mean, that's how I said. You know,

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Speaker 3: you have to be able to control your your your

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Speaker 3: own emotions and temper and try to connect with him

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Speaker 3: because he was very passionate. He's very genuine and it

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Speaker 3: was sort of reactive, but you know it's coming straight

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Speaker 3: from his heart.

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Speaker 1: How would that come up with you?

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Speaker 2: Guys?

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Speaker 1: Between you two as kids when you were younger.

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Speaker 2: Fighting Not only did we fight with our cousins, we

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Speaker 2: karate fight, played karate fight all that. You know, that

283
00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:29,556
Speaker 2: was a real thing.

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Speaker 3: And uh, you know, I was bigger than him and

285
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Speaker 3: sometimes I hit him too hard and he get pissed off.

286
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Speaker 3: He get pissed off a little, all the big eyebrows

287
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Speaker 3: and you know when he was when he was mad,

288
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Speaker 3: and you know, it's like dude, you know. And he

289
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Speaker 3: was two three years old, so he wasn't really used

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Speaker 3: to having a brother yet.

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Speaker 2: And you know, but we got we got, we got,

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Speaker 2: we got tight.

293
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Speaker 1: It was a real big brother, little brother dynamic.

294
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Speaker 3: Then yeah, and then Matulu would walk us to school

295
00:17:01,636 --> 00:17:04,476
Speaker 3: hand in hand. You know, felt like leave it to

296
00:17:04,516 --> 00:17:08,996
Speaker 3: Beaver was some ship. But walking down the streets to Harlem. Yeah, men,

297
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Speaker 3: one side, park on the other walking us to school.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned in the sayings like park. For a

299
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Speaker 1: long time, I grew up thinking that Billy was his father, right.

300
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Speaker 3: No, you're talking about Billy Garland. I'm telling excuse me,

301
00:17:24,956 --> 00:17:29,036
Speaker 3: Gloria Cox our globe. That's a fainty sister. Okay, and

302
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Speaker 3: she I think she got ten kids. There's a bunch

303
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Speaker 3: of We got a bunch of cousins.

304
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Speaker 1: Yeah, got his family is wild, their family tree is wild.

305
00:17:36,796 --> 00:17:40,396
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So you know, we were all in New York.

306
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Speaker 3: You know, we were all in New York and while

307
00:17:44,996 --> 00:17:48,676
Speaker 3: we were growing up, you know, doing the school thing,

308
00:17:49,756 --> 00:17:52,916
Speaker 3: our parents were doing they thing, you.

309
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Speaker 2: Know, and until eighty one, until Nayak went down.

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Speaker 1: You want, do you want to lay out that story

311
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Speaker 1: for me for people who don't know, just kind of

312
00:18:07,356 --> 00:18:10,716
Speaker 1: how like the importance of nayaking and all of this

313
00:18:10,836 --> 00:18:13,716
Speaker 1: and your your father's story and Okay.

314
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Speaker 3: In Nyack, New York, there was an appropriation in progress

315
00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:26,876
Speaker 3: at a shopping center in Nyack, New York, and in

316
00:18:26,996 --> 00:18:31,276
Speaker 3: which a security guard and police officer was killed. And

317
00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:36,116
Speaker 3: at that point a lot of the comrades went on

318
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Speaker 3: the run, most of them got caught and Matulau stayed

319
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Speaker 3: on the run. He was on the run for like

320
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Speaker 3: five years. He was accused of being part of that.

321
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Speaker 2: He was charged. She did his time for that, as

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Speaker 2: well as deliberation of a side of chicaur.

323
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Speaker 1: He was captured getting out of prison.

324
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Speaker 3: Correct in which she stayed free until our last days,

325
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Speaker 3: and Matulau ended up serving thirty seven close to.

326
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Speaker 2: Thirty eight years. You know, he paid for it.

327
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Speaker 3: But you know, he was a true political prisoner, which

328
00:19:18,756 --> 00:19:22,476
Speaker 3: this country doesn't say that we have, but his his

329
00:19:23,156 --> 00:19:26,476
Speaker 3: his motives were clearly political in nature.

330
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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, did your dad and Asada did they

331
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Speaker 1: ever get a was there ever a way for them

332
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Speaker 1: to back channel? And over the course of time.

333
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Speaker 3: And it was just too dangerous that I think he

334
00:19:42,276 --> 00:19:45,076
Speaker 3: was getting some messages from someone I just don't know who,

335
00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:49,036
Speaker 3: you know, But they weren't frequent. It was just a

336
00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:53,076
Speaker 3: check in type thing. Even though she wasn't captured. She

337
00:19:53,316 --> 00:19:56,196
Speaker 3: was free in Cuba, and she would make her own

338
00:19:56,316 --> 00:20:02,196
Speaker 3: moves and you know, but they stayed, you know, they

339
00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:05,156
Speaker 3: did as much as they could. It was that's why

340
00:20:05,156 --> 00:20:08,636
Speaker 3: I keep talking about the level of commitment in those days.

341
00:20:09,716 --> 00:20:16,356
Speaker 3: The times are little times are different, but the social

342
00:20:16,996 --> 00:20:22,196
Speaker 3: impact they were having was way more intense. You know,

343
00:20:23,356 --> 00:20:26,636
Speaker 3: the anti war folks were blowing up buildings in the US.

344
00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:33,236
Speaker 3: There was appropriations, there was jail breaks because you know,

345
00:20:33,396 --> 00:20:38,076
Speaker 3: things are unfair. Pressure bus pipes, pressure bus pipes, and

346
00:20:39,916 --> 00:20:41,796
Speaker 3: kind of like you know the politics of the Republican

347
00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:45,156
Speaker 3: New Africa. Okay, you don't like us, you don't like us,

348
00:20:45,436 --> 00:20:49,036
Speaker 3: you don't like us, okay, okay, Well we could solve

349
00:20:49,076 --> 00:20:56,596
Speaker 3: this peacefully by you people giving us these particular states

350
00:20:58,476 --> 00:21:02,596
Speaker 3: to be run by us our people. Since you don't

351
00:21:02,676 --> 00:21:05,156
Speaker 3: like us, you can't let you sell you just just

352
00:21:05,156 --> 00:21:06,956
Speaker 3: supposed to let you just kill us all up and

353
00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:11,236
Speaker 3: you know, abuse us. So we're going to have these

354
00:21:11,316 --> 00:21:15,116
Speaker 3: states and we're going to build our own nation because

355
00:21:15,196 --> 00:21:17,556
Speaker 3: we have not as well, we have not been paid

356
00:21:18,516 --> 00:21:24,516
Speaker 3: back reparations, which you know, it's conveniently forgotten over how

357
00:21:24,596 --> 00:21:28,556
Speaker 3: many years, So that that's kind of their thinking.

358
00:21:28,916 --> 00:21:32,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you don't give it to us, we

359
00:21:32,756 --> 00:21:35,476
Speaker 2: will have to make other arrangements.

360
00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:37,516
Speaker 1: About to figure out how to get that in ourselves.

361
00:21:37,676 --> 00:21:40,716
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got just going to accept no. Okay, you

362
00:21:40,836 --> 00:21:44,076
Speaker 3: know they just weren't accepting no and accept the conditions

363
00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:49,156
Speaker 3: of our exactly exactly. The difference to me is, you know,

364
00:21:49,316 --> 00:21:53,236
Speaker 3: late sixties, early to mid seventies, there were a lot

365
00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:57,996
Speaker 3: of there was assassinations, you know here in the US.

366
00:21:58,676 --> 00:22:01,756
Speaker 3: They were assassinations from Malcolm Martin.

367
00:22:01,516 --> 00:22:07,556
Speaker 2: Medgar Kennedy and plus Fred Hampton. We can go on.

368
00:22:07,876 --> 00:22:13,796
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, correct, The level of commitment was way more serious.

369
00:22:14,116 --> 00:22:16,156
Speaker 1: When you were young. At any point, did you think

370
00:22:17,356 --> 00:22:18,676
Speaker 1: that was going to be your life? You would take

371
00:22:18,756 --> 00:22:22,316
Speaker 1: up that mantle and be a revolutionary as well, and

372
00:22:22,396 --> 00:22:23,916
Speaker 1: that in the same way that your father was.

373
00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:27,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, because we looked up to our uncles bah blah

374
00:22:27,876 --> 00:22:32,476
Speaker 3: blahlaud baba say cool geronimo. We looked up to them,

375
00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:35,676
Speaker 3: but a lot of bad things started happening to them

376
00:22:36,196 --> 00:22:41,036
Speaker 3: and other uncles that were either where's uncle? Also, oh

377
00:22:41,116 --> 00:22:43,596
Speaker 3: he you know he's locked up now, and you know

378
00:22:44,196 --> 00:22:48,716
Speaker 3: once they go to jail. You know, that broke a

379
00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:53,116
Speaker 3: lot of connections. Jail all murdered, jail all murdered, jail

380
00:22:53,196 --> 00:22:57,236
Speaker 3: all murdered systematically because of co and tail Pro.

381
00:22:57,916 --> 00:23:01,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you even believe perhaps that cointel Pro is

382
00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:05,556
Speaker 1: operating on some level, maybe under another name, some version

383
00:23:05,596 --> 00:23:08,236
Speaker 1: of co intel Pro in the background.

384
00:23:08,276 --> 00:23:13,316
Speaker 3: Of pox career correct under a different name, under different name,

385
00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:19,236
Speaker 3: same tactics, because why because they worked, they worked. You know,

386
00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,556
Speaker 3: the significant thing I think about our story is that

387
00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:26,516
Speaker 3: we were like the last major significant story of the

388
00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:30,356
Speaker 3: Panthers of the era that after us the liberation of

389
00:23:30,436 --> 00:23:31,956
Speaker 3: Asada too.

390
00:23:32,596 --> 00:23:38,436
Speaker 2: After that period, you know that that that liberation movement.

391
00:23:38,356 --> 00:23:41,716
Speaker 1: Was was goed yeh yeh, or it just was fractured

392
00:23:41,716 --> 00:23:44,036
Speaker 1: of the point of just not being as powerful a

393
00:23:44,076 --> 00:23:46,036
Speaker 1: repotement as it as it was.

394
00:23:46,636 --> 00:23:46,836
Speaker 2: Yeah.

395
00:23:47,436 --> 00:23:49,916
Speaker 1: But while the thing that that you joined the military

396
00:23:50,236 --> 00:23:55,316
Speaker 1: ally and they didn't know who you were, that they

397
00:23:55,476 --> 00:23:57,636
Speaker 1: let you exactly.

398
00:23:58,716 --> 00:24:02,676
Speaker 3: And you know, after my father got captured, I was

399
00:24:02,756 --> 00:24:06,476
Speaker 3: definitely gonna talk to him about it. But he knows

400
00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:09,236
Speaker 3: like I knew growing up. He would always call this

401
00:24:09,316 --> 00:24:11,396
Speaker 3: is my little soldier. This is my little soldier, My

402
00:24:11,476 --> 00:24:14,716
Speaker 3: little soldier. That's all as a shorty, you know, it's

403
00:24:14,756 --> 00:24:17,916
Speaker 3: my little soldier. And so when he went down, it's like, Damn,

404
00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:20,716
Speaker 3: I really don't know how to be a soldier yet.

405
00:24:21,956 --> 00:24:24,396
Speaker 3: So I went to learn how to be a soldier,

406
00:24:25,076 --> 00:24:31,436
Speaker 3: no politics attached, but there's an invaluable education in the military.

407
00:24:32,116 --> 00:24:34,316
Speaker 2: I learned how to shoot. I know, about.

408
00:24:34,116 --> 00:24:37,596
Speaker 3: Explosives, I know, some shit. Excuse my French. When I

409
00:24:37,676 --> 00:24:39,516
Speaker 3: went to visit him for the first time, I told.

410
00:24:39,396 --> 00:24:41,836
Speaker 2: Him and he was like, yeah, that's good, that's good.

411
00:24:42,476 --> 00:24:45,236
Speaker 3: You know, you're gonna learn some things. And then he

412
00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:49,556
Speaker 3: told me about Uncle Geronimo was in the army. You know,

413
00:24:49,676 --> 00:24:51,596
Speaker 3: it's a lot of the brothers was in the military.

414
00:24:51,836 --> 00:24:54,596
Speaker 1: I didn't know Deronmo prot was the military.

415
00:24:54,956 --> 00:24:58,196
Speaker 2: Because now the Black Liberation Army.

416
00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:03,436
Speaker 3: Was the armed wing of the Black Panthers, so they

417
00:25:03,516 --> 00:25:08,876
Speaker 3: supported the Panthers, you know, armed you know, and other

418
00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:11,836
Speaker 3: g troops because the times were changing.

419
00:25:12,156 --> 00:25:14,516
Speaker 2: You know, they had to. They were adjusting their tactics

420
00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:16,156
Speaker 2: to match what was going on.

421
00:25:16,476 --> 00:25:19,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they would have loved to been peaceful,

422
00:25:20,796 --> 00:25:25,396
Speaker 3: but if it's if they make it untenable there you're

423
00:25:25,396 --> 00:25:27,556
Speaker 3: supposed to do just lay down and just die.

424
00:25:27,916 --> 00:25:30,036
Speaker 2: Nah, That's why they called it the struggle.

425
00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:35,476
Speaker 1: Struggle be back with more from Moprem after the Break.

426
00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:42,276
Speaker 1: One of the other wild things about about your story,

427
00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:46,036
Speaker 1: and I always forget, is that you and Park. You know,

428
00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:49,356
Speaker 1: obviously it's abundant family, so you guys end up apart

429
00:25:49,436 --> 00:25:52,556
Speaker 1: for a while, but just somehow, through fate, you guys

430
00:25:52,636 --> 00:25:55,556
Speaker 1: wind up in the Bay Area at the same time.

431
00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:58,196
Speaker 1: You know, he's younger, so he's around seventeen eighteen, but

432
00:25:58,276 --> 00:26:01,756
Speaker 1: you haven't just gotten out of the military. Find your

433
00:26:01,796 --> 00:26:04,836
Speaker 1: way to the Bay and to Oakland, pox the Arene,

434
00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:07,516
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, y'all all able to reunite.

435
00:26:07,996 --> 00:26:10,116
Speaker 2: And what it's to be wild than that.

436
00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:16,116
Speaker 3: Because Matulu was captured in lat Extra godted back to

437
00:26:16,196 --> 00:26:21,036
Speaker 3: New York, sentenced, and then sent back to La California.

438
00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:25,036
Speaker 3: So we were all on the West coast, and we

439
00:26:25,156 --> 00:26:27,316
Speaker 3: were all on the West coast, and like I said,

440
00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:30,756
Speaker 3: there was a bit of relief there he was captured,

441
00:26:32,116 --> 00:26:36,796
Speaker 3: because there was talk of him not going alive. There

442
00:26:36,916 --> 00:26:39,236
Speaker 3: was he wasn't gonna let him take him alive, and

443
00:26:39,356 --> 00:26:42,316
Speaker 3: so we were concerned that he would be killed. And

444
00:26:43,836 --> 00:26:47,076
Speaker 3: but when he was captured, everybody could breathe a little bit.

445
00:26:48,436 --> 00:26:52,196
Speaker 3: He's alive, you know, we could the families could reconnect

446
00:26:53,516 --> 00:26:56,076
Speaker 3: because you know, Cole and Telpro, they were all on

447
00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:59,436
Speaker 3: top of everybody trying to find a Sada one, then

448
00:26:59,516 --> 00:27:02,836
Speaker 3: trying to find him two. And then when he's captured,

449
00:27:02,836 --> 00:27:05,476
Speaker 3: they still trying to find a Sada. You know what

450
00:27:05,516 --> 00:27:09,276
Speaker 3: I'm saying so, yeah, it was Gully, but you and Parker.

451
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:11,876
Speaker 1: Able to reunite because you're in the Bay area, and

452
00:27:12,796 --> 00:27:14,796
Speaker 1: and your sister Set and.

453
00:27:15,476 --> 00:27:22,076
Speaker 3: Park Set moved there because of Geronimo's family, right, Germo's

454
00:27:22,116 --> 00:27:22,956
Speaker 3: family was still.

455
00:27:22,796 --> 00:27:25,556
Speaker 1: There, and Dromo was it was in prison at that

456
00:27:25,676 --> 00:27:30,116
Speaker 1: time already, but his wife and kids or his woman

457
00:27:30,156 --> 00:27:32,316
Speaker 1: and his kids. So and then that's who part goes

458
00:27:32,636 --> 00:27:33,956
Speaker 1: to live with for a time.

459
00:27:33,996 --> 00:27:34,756
Speaker 2: That's where they started.

460
00:27:34,836 --> 00:27:37,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, they started, and then and then the Fainty moved out.

461
00:27:38,516 --> 00:27:41,596
Speaker 3: And then they got their their their own spot in

462
00:27:41,756 --> 00:27:43,636
Speaker 3: Bay but they didn't have much.

463
00:27:43,836 --> 00:27:47,796
Speaker 2: They were broke, you know. Yeah, and then we were

464
00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:49,476
Speaker 2: blessed enough to make it in the game.

465
00:27:50,156 --> 00:27:52,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know you were kind of shocked by

466
00:27:52,956 --> 00:27:54,596
Speaker 1: like the way that they were living at that time

467
00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:56,996
Speaker 1: when you reconnected that just it was there wasn't quite

468
00:27:57,036 --> 00:27:59,956
Speaker 1: as you know, it was. It was a little less

469
00:27:59,996 --> 00:28:02,396
Speaker 1: than you you'd imagined or hoped or i'd imagine, right

470
00:28:02,476 --> 00:28:02,996
Speaker 1: for your family.

471
00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:07,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, when you little, you don't you don't

472
00:28:07,636 --> 00:28:13,236
Speaker 3: always recognize poverty much. But I was older, so I

473
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:16,636
Speaker 3: knew what poverty really was at this point, and you

474
00:28:16,716 --> 00:28:23,276
Speaker 3: know what was going on, And yeah, it's not hard

475
00:28:23,396 --> 00:28:26,476
Speaker 3: to maintain a nine to five when you got the

476
00:28:26,556 --> 00:28:30,036
Speaker 3: fast on you, all up in your business, trying to

477
00:28:31,276 --> 00:28:35,116
Speaker 3: bring you down, you know, and all the support system

478
00:28:35,236 --> 00:28:38,676
Speaker 3: of people that would support you, they're on them too,

479
00:28:39,956 --> 00:28:45,076
Speaker 3: you know. So that's why, you know, I felt I

480
00:28:45,196 --> 00:28:49,076
Speaker 3: needed to write this story, my story. You know, I

481
00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:52,196
Speaker 3: don't have the only story, but I feel like my

482
00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:57,156
Speaker 3: story is quite significant because of you know, my relationship,

483
00:28:57,276 --> 00:28:59,556
Speaker 3: my relationships, and for.

484
00:28:59,716 --> 00:29:02,996
Speaker 2: History's sake, for history's sake, for their history's sake.

485
00:29:03,076 --> 00:29:08,436
Speaker 3: Their history should be remembered, it should be studied, should

486
00:29:08,476 --> 00:29:15,636
Speaker 3: be appreciated. And there's that history, and then there's black

487
00:29:15,956 --> 00:29:22,796
Speaker 3: music history. You know. I was first to to you know,

488
00:29:23,236 --> 00:29:26,436
Speaker 3: on a hip, on a hit record in our family.

489
00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:29,076
Speaker 3: I mean, my grandmother used to make a gospel record.

490
00:29:29,676 --> 00:29:34,156
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, you got you.

491
00:29:34,436 --> 00:29:40,756
Speaker 1: You have eight bars on Tony Tony's Feels Good. Yes, phenomenal, classic,

492
00:29:40,996 --> 00:29:44,636
Speaker 1: classic to this day, huge, God is Good, Huge, And

493
00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:46,596
Speaker 1: then pop came out behold up. But how did you

494
00:29:46,636 --> 00:29:48,596
Speaker 1: get How did that happen that you wound up? You're

495
00:29:48,636 --> 00:29:50,316
Speaker 1: in the military, you moved to Oakland. How do you

496
00:29:50,316 --> 00:29:52,996
Speaker 1: wind up on Tony Tony record.

497
00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:57,156
Speaker 3: Because from South Side Jamaica, Queens, New York, and I'm

498
00:29:57,876 --> 00:30:00,756
Speaker 3: from the mecca of hip hop, and I grew up

499
00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:01,476
Speaker 3: with hip hop.

500
00:30:02,436 --> 00:30:04,796
Speaker 2: We all me and Pop grew up grew up with

501
00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:07,876
Speaker 2: it all around it. Especially he was in Harlem.

502
00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:10,516
Speaker 3: We were over it up in the Bronx together and

503
00:30:10,636 --> 00:30:14,956
Speaker 3: I was in Queen's you know, run DMC, what you know,

504
00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:18,916
Speaker 3: l L and rock him. You know that that that

505
00:30:19,116 --> 00:30:22,956
Speaker 3: that's my error right there, you know, highly influenced me.

506
00:30:23,356 --> 00:30:25,396
Speaker 3: So when I got out the army, got out with

507
00:30:25,516 --> 00:30:28,436
Speaker 3: a little paper, I put myself in the studio and

508
00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:34,076
Speaker 3: through that process, brother named Kenya Baker, his brother is

509
00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,276
Speaker 3: in Tony Tony Tony, but he was producing some some

510
00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:41,396
Speaker 3: some demo for me, and uh, they came and heard

511
00:30:41,436 --> 00:30:43,316
Speaker 3: my demo and then asked me, did I want to

512
00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:47,276
Speaker 3: be on a song? Raphels asked me, you know, asked

513
00:30:47,356 --> 00:30:49,436
Speaker 3: Eric to ask me if did I want to be

514
00:30:49,516 --> 00:30:49,916
Speaker 3: on a song?

515
00:30:49,996 --> 00:30:51,516
Speaker 2: I'm like yeah.

516
00:30:53,116 --> 00:30:56,316
Speaker 3: Then I heard it, I was like, oh, oh, this

517
00:30:56,516 --> 00:31:01,756
Speaker 3: maybe the magic that that that though those drums are infections,

518
00:31:01,916 --> 00:31:03,156
Speaker 3: infectious on that song.

519
00:31:04,076 --> 00:31:04,756
Speaker 2: I love that song.

520
00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:07,116
Speaker 1: I want to hold up, I want to I want

521
00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:08,796
Speaker 1: to play I want to play second that I want

522
00:31:08,836 --> 00:31:10,916
Speaker 1: to play little bars on that.

523
00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:15,556
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, you know, go and play classics. Want

524
00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:21,596
Speaker 3: to move the table backs so you could dance it. Yeah,

525
00:31:21,676 --> 00:31:26,316
Speaker 3: that that was a blessing because that record when we connected,

526
00:31:26,996 --> 00:31:30,596
Speaker 3: the record was recorded, but it wasn't out yet.

527
00:31:30,996 --> 00:31:35,756
Speaker 2: So I got to, you know, tell give them the

528
00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:38,676
Speaker 2: good news. And everybody was happy for me. You know,

529
00:31:39,236 --> 00:31:39,956
Speaker 2: is that for real?

530
00:31:40,196 --> 00:31:43,116
Speaker 3: Because everybody knew Tony Tony Tony, Tony, Tony Tony.

531
00:31:42,956 --> 00:31:45,036
Speaker 2: Had already had Little Walter. Hey, little Walter. I don't

532
00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:46,436
Speaker 2: know remember that first album.

533
00:31:46,556 --> 00:31:50,996
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that was a hit. And then yeah, man,

534
00:31:52,036 --> 00:32:12,916
Speaker 3: god it's good. It was a charm time in our lives. Yeah, songs,

535
00:32:13,236 --> 00:32:15,956
Speaker 3: songs were like four minutes, four or five minutes back then,

536
00:32:16,116 --> 00:32:19,716
Speaker 3: so much I'm I'm near the end. But yeah, it

537
00:32:19,836 --> 00:32:20,476
Speaker 3: was a big deal.

538
00:32:21,156 --> 00:32:22,436
Speaker 1: Oh it's gonna come in. Hold up.

539
00:32:26,836 --> 00:32:27,676
Speaker 2: Boom boom.

540
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:34,716
Speaker 3: Boo boo mo mellow, Quite a nice fellow, met three

541
00:32:34,796 --> 00:32:37,316
Speaker 3: t get around my capello. They had the real dom

542
00:32:37,356 --> 00:32:39,076
Speaker 3: and and I had the rhyme. So then I hear

543
00:32:39,156 --> 00:32:41,396
Speaker 3: it that boom more time. It worked out and then

544
00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:49,076
Speaker 3: they worked it in. Tony has done it. Man, the

545
00:32:49,156 --> 00:32:52,116
Speaker 3: classics baby can you read that, you go on, man,

546
00:32:52,716 --> 00:32:55,876
Speaker 3: ridiculous And I love it because it's a feel good

547
00:32:55,956 --> 00:32:58,276
Speaker 3: song if the name of it just feels good and

548
00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:02,276
Speaker 3: it's a feel good song, and it doesn't have no no,

549
00:33:02,716 --> 00:33:05,836
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of luggage attached. Yeah you know, I

550
00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:09,796
Speaker 3: mean I didn't. I wasn't properly. I haven't seated it.

551
00:33:11,156 --> 00:33:15,636
Speaker 3: But it is a blessing all the same. Yeah, yeah,

552
00:33:15,876 --> 00:33:17,756
Speaker 3: this is blessing all the same. You know, I still

553
00:33:17,796 --> 00:33:22,396
Speaker 3: love him, dudes. That's the piece Dwayne Wiggins who passed

554
00:33:22,436 --> 00:33:26,956
Speaker 3: away like last year ago. Yeah, but Raphael shout out

555
00:33:26,956 --> 00:33:29,076
Speaker 3: to Rafael. I think he was just nominated for an

556
00:33:29,156 --> 00:33:33,556
Speaker 3: oscar for uh senates for sinners. Yeah yeah, man, so

557
00:33:33,676 --> 00:33:36,636
Speaker 3: we have some talent. Talent, man, but you all.

558
00:33:36,876 --> 00:33:38,396
Speaker 1: The funny part about that, and I didn't know this

559
00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:41,156
Speaker 1: is when they ask you to do it, it's like, yeah,

560
00:33:41,156 --> 00:33:43,876
Speaker 1: we're kind of why don't you write something and we'll

561
00:33:43,876 --> 00:33:45,476
Speaker 1: see what it turns out to be. We're also talking

562
00:33:45,516 --> 00:33:47,836
Speaker 1: to mc hammer c do something.

563
00:33:48,396 --> 00:33:52,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you were you were kind of likeation prize.

564
00:33:52,956 --> 00:33:54,916
Speaker 1: Not a consolation prize, but it was kind of like listen.

565
00:33:55,356 --> 00:33:57,236
Speaker 1: So I was like, man, I wonder I was like

566
00:33:57,316 --> 00:33:58,796
Speaker 1: This must have been a smart move because at the end,

567
00:33:58,836 --> 00:34:01,316
Speaker 1: you go, Tony Tony, Tony has done it again. I'm like, okay,

568
00:34:01,356 --> 00:34:05,556
Speaker 1: you must have named checked that. That's like you're gonna

569
00:34:05,556 --> 00:34:07,396
Speaker 1: pick me because'm gonna'm gonna i'mnna shout you all out

570
00:34:07,436 --> 00:34:07,676
Speaker 1: on it, you know.

571
00:34:08,596 --> 00:34:12,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wrote, dude, they were making commercials

572
00:34:12,916 --> 00:34:15,756
Speaker 3: off of my tagline Tony Tony, Tony has done it again.

573
00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:20,676
Speaker 3: I'm like, yo, but yeah, man, they were going to

574
00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 3: have mc hammer do it for real. But uh, mc

575
00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:27,796
Speaker 3: hammer was hot at the time. He was quite pricey,

576
00:34:28,156 --> 00:34:30,036
Speaker 3: so it was more economical.

577
00:34:30,396 --> 00:34:33,796
Speaker 2: Yeah, the fuck with this little New York dude. See

578
00:34:33,796 --> 00:34:34,316
Speaker 2: what he got?

579
00:34:34,556 --> 00:34:36,476
Speaker 1: You know, the dude was in the town at that time,

580
00:34:36,556 --> 00:34:37,076
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

581
00:34:37,276 --> 00:34:39,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I didn't know nobody, you know, but I

582
00:34:39,996 --> 00:34:42,916
Speaker 3: knew music. I knew I could do this, you know

583
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:44,356
Speaker 3: what I mean. I just needed a shot.

584
00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:48,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's even before digital underground pocks

585
00:34:48,396 --> 00:34:51,076
Speaker 1: and you know, so you have the first hit.

586
00:34:51,476 --> 00:34:56,756
Speaker 3: Yes, I am part of the story. I have part

587
00:34:56,796 --> 00:35:00,436
Speaker 3: of the story. And then when when, uh, but park

588
00:35:00,596 --> 00:35:06,996
Speaker 3: was inspired. Now that was my first record, first in

589
00:35:07,076 --> 00:35:09,916
Speaker 3: the family, but pac had already been been on this

590
00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:13,276
Speaker 3: Pollow stage. I had already did raise it in the

591
00:35:13,396 --> 00:35:18,756
Speaker 3: Sun after Pollow A thirteen, So we were honing our

592
00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:23,196
Speaker 3: entertainment chops, you know. And then when Pop got to Baltimore,

593
00:35:23,276 --> 00:35:26,236
Speaker 3: they did. He went to school with the arts and

594
00:35:26,756 --> 00:35:27,596
Speaker 3: so he was ready.

595
00:35:27,836 --> 00:35:28,436
Speaker 2: He was ready.

596
00:35:28,556 --> 00:35:33,996
Speaker 3: Shock was keen enough to recognize that because Shock recipe

597
00:35:34,076 --> 00:35:37,356
Speaker 3: shot g he was a trained musician.

598
00:35:37,556 --> 00:35:41,756
Speaker 2: He went to school in Tampa music school. So he

599
00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:42,196
Speaker 2: got it.

600
00:35:42,316 --> 00:35:45,036
Speaker 3: Pop got we will all try to be serious artists,

601
00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:48,476
Speaker 3: you know, and and and doing it in the Bay

602
00:35:49,956 --> 00:35:52,116
Speaker 3: shout out to the Bay Area was a blessing because

603
00:35:52,116 --> 00:35:57,196
Speaker 3: it was so creative. Groups, music musicians everywhere, you know,

604
00:35:57,356 --> 00:36:00,916
Speaker 3: legendary managers, legendary artists, legendary you know what I mean.

605
00:36:02,076 --> 00:36:06,076
Speaker 3: Two show was out there Richie rich A young e

606
00:36:06,316 --> 00:36:10,996
Speaker 3: forty forty water, you know what I'm saying. And it

607
00:36:11,156 --> 00:36:13,876
Speaker 3: was just good, good energy, good, A lot of creative

608
00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:14,636
Speaker 3: juice is flowing.

609
00:36:15,076 --> 00:36:19,356
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, did you when you reconnect with Park was

610
00:36:19,396 --> 00:36:22,276
Speaker 1: he did you? Could you sense that he was coming

611
00:36:22,316 --> 00:36:25,756
Speaker 1: into his own that he was Yes, so.

612
00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:28,716
Speaker 3: Uh, Park knew what was going on with me and

613
00:36:28,836 --> 00:36:32,476
Speaker 3: that the logical organic thing was us to do some

614
00:36:32,596 --> 00:36:35,156
Speaker 3: music together. We got together and do something, you know,

615
00:36:35,876 --> 00:36:40,716
Speaker 3: and we sat down. We sat down to write a song.

616
00:36:40,916 --> 00:36:43,396
Speaker 3: I still remember naming this song. It was called rolling

617
00:36:43,436 --> 00:36:46,876
Speaker 3: out of Forsyth County. Forsythe County. There was a klan

618
00:36:47,116 --> 00:36:49,876
Speaker 3: rally that year in forsythe County.

619
00:36:49,996 --> 00:36:50,756
Speaker 2: Seen it on the news.

620
00:36:51,196 --> 00:36:55,156
Speaker 3: We should go out there, cadillacs, beanses and false on

621
00:36:55,276 --> 00:36:57,436
Speaker 3: them and can I curse?

622
00:36:57,516 --> 00:36:57,956
Speaker 2: I ain't.

623
00:36:59,916 --> 00:37:03,436
Speaker 3: And so we sat down and started writing, started writing,

624
00:37:03,716 --> 00:37:05,436
Speaker 3: trying to work out mothers like ship.

625
00:37:06,236 --> 00:37:09,196
Speaker 2: And then next thing, I know, all right, let's y

626
00:37:09,356 --> 00:37:09,756
Speaker 2: what you got?

627
00:37:10,636 --> 00:37:10,676
Speaker 1: Like?

628
00:37:10,796 --> 00:37:13,036
Speaker 2: What are like? You finished already? Yup.

629
00:37:14,996 --> 00:37:17,836
Speaker 3: Fob was a beast. His pen was wicked. He was

630
00:37:17,916 --> 00:37:21,836
Speaker 3: He's an excellent writer. And because he would write poetry too.

631
00:37:22,596 --> 00:37:25,276
Speaker 3: I didn't write poetry. I just wrote rhyme songs.

632
00:37:25,436 --> 00:37:29,156
Speaker 2: He would. He would write poetry, and I was like, whoa.

633
00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:32,876
Speaker 3: That's when I knew, Oh he's really kids, really got it.

634
00:37:33,396 --> 00:37:36,236
Speaker 3: And then shot gave him a shot. The rest is history.

635
00:37:36,796 --> 00:37:39,076
Speaker 1: And then you're with him for most of the ride.

636
00:37:39,156 --> 00:37:41,516
Speaker 1: Man like you guys are I mean you really saw

637
00:37:41,596 --> 00:37:44,396
Speaker 1: the evolution of his of his career.

638
00:37:44,996 --> 00:37:48,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, helped him get there. And I mean.

639
00:37:50,276 --> 00:37:52,916
Speaker 3: Because I was at the beginning he was his eyes

640
00:37:53,196 --> 00:37:56,556
Speaker 3: inspired him, you know, no exaggeration, but when he learned

641
00:37:56,596 --> 00:37:59,356
Speaker 3: his big brother gonna be on the record with Tony

642
00:37:59,396 --> 00:38:02,196
Speaker 3: Tony Tony, that meant something. That meant something to an

643
00:38:02,516 --> 00:38:04,916
Speaker 3: eighteen year old living in the Bay.

644
00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:07,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, and then you're both that Summer

645
00:38:07,876 --> 00:38:10,396
Speaker 1: Jam at the same time, you with Tony Tony Tony

646
00:38:11,316 --> 00:38:13,956
Speaker 1: him was Shocked with digit on the ground with Shocking

647
00:38:13,996 --> 00:38:14,756
Speaker 1: them money Bee.

648
00:38:15,236 --> 00:38:15,436
Speaker 2: Yeah.

649
00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:20,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was eighty eight, eighty nine, eighty nine,

650
00:38:20,676 --> 00:38:23,636
Speaker 3: ninety ninety one them three four years we were at

651
00:38:23,676 --> 00:38:26,756
Speaker 3: the Summer Jam. Every year somebody was out with a

652
00:38:26,876 --> 00:38:30,076
Speaker 3: record that meant they would be on the Summer Jam,

653
00:38:30,516 --> 00:38:35,196
Speaker 3: either Shock or the Tony's or you know, always some

654
00:38:35,316 --> 00:38:38,996
Speaker 3: of our people, you know rich you know, there's always

655
00:38:39,036 --> 00:38:40,116
Speaker 3: a reason for us to be there.

656
00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:41,996
Speaker 2: So I my mind tally.

657
00:38:42,036 --> 00:38:44,036
Speaker 3: It helped me work out my memory because I was

658
00:38:44,156 --> 00:38:48,236
Speaker 3: remembering one Summer Jam was really the other Summer Jam.

659
00:38:48,356 --> 00:38:50,156
Speaker 2: It was just like kind of a blur, but it

660
00:38:50,316 --> 00:38:53,836
Speaker 2: was such it was like a Costo dream.

661
00:38:54,236 --> 00:38:57,116
Speaker 1: Well it's crazy too that like pop gets the juice

662
00:38:57,196 --> 00:39:01,996
Speaker 1: roll before. It's really hard. I mean, even having I

663
00:39:02,076 --> 00:39:03,636
Speaker 1: lived it, just to look back on it, and knowing

664
00:39:03,676 --> 00:39:04,876
Speaker 1: it and knowing all the stuff as well as I

665
00:39:04,996 --> 00:39:06,836
Speaker 1: know it. But just it is hard to process that

666
00:39:06,876 --> 00:39:10,356
Speaker 1: he got the Juice Rollo even had the record deal

667
00:39:11,236 --> 00:39:12,956
Speaker 1: outside of Digital Underground, you know what I mean, his

668
00:39:13,036 --> 00:39:14,076
Speaker 1: own solo record deal.

669
00:39:15,236 --> 00:39:20,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, because Pac got into Digital. Digital's hot. Do what

670
00:39:20,956 --> 00:39:25,036
Speaker 3: you're like, Humpty dance huge. That's when Parc got with Digital.

671
00:39:25,156 --> 00:39:27,436
Speaker 3: So because they were so hot that they had a

672
00:39:27,516 --> 00:39:28,156
Speaker 3: lot going on.

673
00:39:28,676 --> 00:39:30,556
Speaker 2: Because and you even.

674
00:39:30,436 --> 00:39:32,076
Speaker 3: Want to put that Dan Akroyd movie actually know that,

675
00:39:32,196 --> 00:39:34,356
Speaker 3: think about it. Nothing but trouble, Nothing but trouble, Nothing

676
00:39:34,396 --> 00:39:37,476
Speaker 3: but trouble. Yeah, Park gets a little little quick cameo

677
00:39:37,556 --> 00:39:42,556
Speaker 3: in that. But when Rod came up for Juice, Shock

678
00:39:42,676 --> 00:39:46,436
Speaker 3: wanted money Be to do it first, and then Mon

679
00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:49,716
Speaker 3: was like, no, Park needed to do this.

680
00:39:50,196 --> 00:39:50,356
Speaker 1: You know.

681
00:39:50,716 --> 00:39:54,036
Speaker 2: It was more of a POC type role. And they's like, yeah,

682
00:39:54,116 --> 00:39:56,316
Speaker 2: you rock this.

683
00:39:57,236 --> 00:40:00,916
Speaker 3: And because they knew he was also trained yeah in

684
00:40:01,756 --> 00:40:04,236
Speaker 3: acting as opposed to them guys.

685
00:40:04,116 --> 00:40:06,876
Speaker 1: From Baltimore, emmorn both schools right.

686
00:40:06,956 --> 00:40:10,916
Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, as first rap group was up in

687
00:40:11,636 --> 00:40:16,796
Speaker 3: Marin h Ray Love DJ did Strictly Dope, always shoutout

688
00:40:16,796 --> 00:40:22,076
Speaker 3: Strictly Dope. Park's first rap group and he blew away

689
00:40:22,116 --> 00:40:25,796
Speaker 3: to audition. He blew away the audition from what I heard,

690
00:40:25,916 --> 00:40:28,956
Speaker 3: and then the rest was history. And then we had

691
00:40:28,996 --> 00:40:31,276
Speaker 3: to say, like, oh ship this nigga's a movie star.

692
00:40:32,196 --> 00:40:36,476
Speaker 3: We ain't got no record deal, and so we dug

693
00:40:36,556 --> 00:40:37,836
Speaker 3: in trying to get that done.

694
00:40:38,716 --> 00:40:40,236
Speaker 2: You know. It was a lot of work, you know,

695
00:40:40,436 --> 00:40:42,276
Speaker 2: but we was trying to get all the money.

696
00:40:43,356 --> 00:40:47,276
Speaker 1: What was it like with with Interscope? Did it? Did

697
00:40:47,316 --> 00:40:50,636
Speaker 1: it over the course of things? Like how how did

698
00:40:50,716 --> 00:40:52,716
Speaker 1: you ever? We ever around like Jimmy or.

699
00:40:53,156 --> 00:40:57,996
Speaker 3: Or I was around Tom Willy more than Jimmy. I

700
00:40:58,076 --> 00:41:02,836
Speaker 3: would have to deliver the music to in the scope,

701
00:41:03,756 --> 00:41:06,796
Speaker 3: pocabing the studio, like run this to the label, you know,

702
00:41:07,556 --> 00:41:10,396
Speaker 3: and now play this and this for time, play this,

703
00:41:10,636 --> 00:41:13,916
Speaker 3: you know. I would have to play selects for Tom,

704
00:41:14,036 --> 00:41:16,516
Speaker 3: looking for the singles and and things like that.

705
00:41:17,156 --> 00:41:20,956
Speaker 2: You know, had a lot of jobs. Man had a

706
00:41:20,996 --> 00:41:23,196
Speaker 2: lot of jobs. But we made it. We made it,

707
00:41:23,436 --> 00:41:25,516
Speaker 2: you know, Hooker crook.

708
00:41:25,956 --> 00:41:26,116
Speaker 1: You know.

709
00:41:26,556 --> 00:41:29,476
Speaker 3: And and Park had a lot of energy and he

710
00:41:29,636 --> 00:41:32,516
Speaker 3: needed someone who could keep up and that he trusted

711
00:41:32,876 --> 00:41:37,236
Speaker 3: and he knew I was already and it by me

712
00:41:37,396 --> 00:41:40,836
Speaker 3: having feels good, it gave me I was comfortable I

713
00:41:40,956 --> 00:41:42,916
Speaker 3: was cool with that. I was cool with that. I

714
00:41:43,036 --> 00:41:46,236
Speaker 3: want my brother to be that hit now, yeah, you know,

715
00:41:46,356 --> 00:41:51,796
Speaker 3: and that just kept going. Yeah, he kept hav you know. Yeah,

716
00:41:52,276 --> 00:41:53,956
Speaker 3: we had a good five six year run.

717
00:41:54,996 --> 00:41:56,756
Speaker 1: Even when it stops, even when he's gone, it's still

718
00:41:56,796 --> 00:41:57,516
Speaker 1: keep you know.

719
00:41:57,676 --> 00:42:01,156
Speaker 2: It's just the greatest of all times when it's rap ship.

720
00:42:01,716 --> 00:42:03,316
Speaker 1: You know what the greatest thing about his story is

721
00:42:03,396 --> 00:42:04,996
Speaker 1: and your story and all that is just when you're

722
00:42:04,996 --> 00:42:07,396
Speaker 1: reading through the book, so much of the narrative about

723
00:42:07,436 --> 00:42:11,356
Speaker 1: any rapper now is about it's about money.

724
00:42:11,516 --> 00:42:11,716
Speaker 2: You know.

725
00:42:12,436 --> 00:42:15,156
Speaker 1: And when you're reading this your book and you're really

726
00:42:15,196 --> 00:42:19,076
Speaker 1: thinking about Po's legacy and you're just kind of reliving it,

727
00:42:19,156 --> 00:42:21,236
Speaker 1: it's like he probably never got the money he should

728
00:42:21,276 --> 00:42:24,956
Speaker 1: have gotten. But regardless, it's an inspiring story. Man like

729
00:42:25,076 --> 00:42:28,876
Speaker 1: his life. You guys lived and inspired life around the arts,

730
00:42:29,236 --> 00:42:36,476
Speaker 1: around uplifting blacks, uplifting people of all cultures, really through

731
00:42:36,636 --> 00:42:41,196
Speaker 1: your example, right, And it's just like it's a success

732
00:42:41,276 --> 00:42:44,756
Speaker 1: story that doesn't center around money. And that's fascinating to

733
00:42:44,836 --> 00:42:46,556
Speaker 1: me because that's all we talk about now.

734
00:42:47,196 --> 00:42:50,516
Speaker 3: Kind of what set said it set Park apart was

735
00:42:50,636 --> 00:42:54,956
Speaker 3: that he he wrote he often wrote about social issues

736
00:42:55,876 --> 00:42:58,556
Speaker 3: more than other artists. He wrote about social issues and

737
00:42:58,716 --> 00:43:02,956
Speaker 3: he was passionate, genuine and intense. So those songs about

738
00:43:02,996 --> 00:43:08,876
Speaker 3: those social issues resonated. Uh, Brendon's Got a Baby, Keep

739
00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:13,036
Speaker 3: your Head up, you know these you know, those songs

740
00:43:13,116 --> 00:43:14,236
Speaker 3: got through so.

741
00:43:16,316 --> 00:43:19,196
Speaker 2: Because they were coming from a real place, a genuine place.

742
00:43:19,476 --> 00:43:19,636
Speaker 2: You know.

743
00:43:19,916 --> 00:43:26,916
Speaker 3: We come from community, family of community organizers, you know, healers.

744
00:43:27,956 --> 00:43:31,756
Speaker 3: You know, my father was also an acupunctured doctor. You know,

745
00:43:31,876 --> 00:43:34,036
Speaker 3: he did all that shit before thirty five. You know.

746
00:43:34,556 --> 00:43:36,676
Speaker 1: But I think that's what makes Pok's music more than

747
00:43:36,756 --> 00:43:41,236
Speaker 1: any other rappers music, like just perennially relevant. As long

748
00:43:41,276 --> 00:43:44,436
Speaker 1: as he made those records, they're never out of style.

749
00:43:45,436 --> 00:43:48,516
Speaker 1: Park is relevant right now right now. Got money for

750
00:43:48,676 --> 00:43:51,196
Speaker 1: war but can't feed the poor. I see that everywhere

751
00:43:51,276 --> 00:43:51,556
Speaker 1: right now.

752
00:43:52,116 --> 00:43:54,876
Speaker 2: It's unfortunately it's still relevant.

753
00:43:54,996 --> 00:43:59,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, man, we were That's part of that

754
00:43:59,996 --> 00:44:03,036
Speaker 3: being aware of the world around us. You know, it's

755
00:44:03,836 --> 00:44:06,356
Speaker 3: you know, it's a big world out there, and we

756
00:44:06,436 --> 00:44:07,716
Speaker 3: ain't the only ones going through it.

757
00:44:07,916 --> 00:44:11,316
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, last break and we'll be back with Mopreme

758
00:44:11,396 --> 00:44:17,796
Speaker 1: chakor for you as his brother, Like, what is it like?

759
00:44:17,996 --> 00:44:22,596
Speaker 1: I feel like every year there's a new like someone's

760
00:44:23,716 --> 00:44:26,516
Speaker 1: there's always like something like interview where someone's got PC

761
00:44:26,596 --> 00:44:29,196
Speaker 1: figured out. Okay, oh he was an actor. Okay, he

762
00:44:29,356 --> 00:44:31,436
Speaker 1: was a thug. Okay, he was a he was just

763
00:44:31,516 --> 00:44:34,156
Speaker 1: a he was he was pretending, Okay he was What

764
00:44:34,276 --> 00:44:34,516
Speaker 1: was it like?

765
00:44:34,556 --> 00:44:34,756
Speaker 2: See?

766
00:44:34,796 --> 00:44:36,716
Speaker 1: I mean every year, every year is a new story

767
00:44:36,756 --> 00:44:38,596
Speaker 1: about why Pak was the way Pac was and this

768
00:44:38,716 --> 00:44:39,836
Speaker 1: is this is really who he was.

769
00:44:40,076 --> 00:44:44,836
Speaker 2: You know what Pap was. Pac was legend. Pac was legend.

770
00:44:45,556 --> 00:44:49,596
Speaker 3: The moves he made, the impact, he had, the love

771
00:44:49,716 --> 00:44:55,596
Speaker 3: he got, passion he displayed. He was one of a kind.

772
00:44:56,036 --> 00:45:01,236
Speaker 3: You know, he's one of a kind, and it still resonates.

773
00:45:01,316 --> 00:45:04,876
Speaker 3: Pac was the black James Dean. You know, he's he's

774
00:45:05,076 --> 00:45:07,276
Speaker 3: the Bob Marley, He's he's that guy.

775
00:45:07,476 --> 00:45:09,876
Speaker 2: Pac was that guy. You know I did.

776
00:45:09,956 --> 00:45:11,836
Speaker 3: I don't know how else to explain it, but his

777
00:45:12,956 --> 00:45:20,116
Speaker 3: his chrisma, He had chrisma. Yeah, yeah, missed that dude.

778
00:45:20,876 --> 00:45:23,876
Speaker 3: Missed that dude. But he did it his way. He

779
00:45:23,956 --> 00:45:24,676
Speaker 3: did it his way.

780
00:45:25,156 --> 00:45:27,436
Speaker 1: Do you feel like Inerscope knew what they had with.

781
00:45:27,516 --> 00:45:29,276
Speaker 2: Him, not until they got a hit record.

782
00:45:30,836 --> 00:45:32,876
Speaker 3: I mean they knew he was a movie star, right,

783
00:45:32,996 --> 00:45:36,076
Speaker 3: so he was worth investing in and it might have

784
00:45:36,236 --> 00:45:40,716
Speaker 3: paid off, and it did, right, it did. But he

785
00:45:40,836 --> 00:45:42,836
Speaker 3: was a movie star and he was plugged with one

786
00:45:42,836 --> 00:45:46,396
Speaker 3: of the hottest groups in the game, Digital right, so

787
00:45:46,636 --> 00:45:52,116
Speaker 3: there was a lot of farther for success. Yeah, you know,

788
00:45:53,036 --> 00:45:59,356
Speaker 3: and we were hungry prior to us coming up. Park

789
00:45:59,556 --> 00:46:01,556
Speaker 3: was poor, you know, we they were broke.

790
00:46:01,796 --> 00:46:01,956
Speaker 1: You know.

791
00:46:02,596 --> 00:46:06,436
Speaker 3: Packer would try dabbling in dope, you know, selling drugs,

792
00:46:06,516 --> 00:46:09,516
Speaker 3: but all the drug did was like, man, you don't

793
00:46:09,516 --> 00:46:11,596
Speaker 3: need to be doing this, this is not for you. Yeah,

794
00:46:11,916 --> 00:46:14,316
Speaker 3: you know, and only my only dudes who got love

795
00:46:14,356 --> 00:46:17,796
Speaker 3: for you would would you know, say that pull you

796
00:46:17,916 --> 00:46:20,436
Speaker 3: out and put you in a different direction. Shout out

797
00:46:20,476 --> 00:46:25,196
Speaker 3: to man Man Mike Cooley, you know, Patters from Richmond.

798
00:46:26,036 --> 00:46:29,036
Speaker 3: They they helped get him in the studio in the

799
00:46:29,076 --> 00:46:32,716
Speaker 3: early days, you know, and then when he got with Shock,

800
00:46:33,836 --> 00:46:36,916
Speaker 3: Shock would have signed different producers to work with Park,

801
00:46:37,956 --> 00:46:41,196
Speaker 3: Big D Ed Impossible who did changes. Shout out to

802
00:46:41,236 --> 00:46:45,396
Speaker 3: Big D Recipes, the Big D Chot Master j. You know,

803
00:46:46,556 --> 00:46:49,116
Speaker 3: they did a lot of the early demos. And then

804
00:46:49,196 --> 00:46:52,276
Speaker 3: Park had a lot of friends, so he would end

805
00:46:52,396 --> 00:46:56,636
Speaker 3: up working with everybody and we would end up kicking

806
00:46:56,676 --> 00:46:57,516
Speaker 3: it with everybody.

807
00:46:57,756 --> 00:46:58,556
Speaker 2: He was that dude.

808
00:46:58,636 --> 00:47:01,956
Speaker 3: Everybody wanted him at their party. Everybody wanted him on

809
00:47:02,036 --> 00:47:06,236
Speaker 3: their song. So we you know, and I just try

810
00:47:06,276 --> 00:47:08,276
Speaker 3: to support him. We just try to support them. Let's

811
00:47:08,316 --> 00:47:11,276
Speaker 3: get it, you know. You know, I was in the military,

812
00:47:11,356 --> 00:47:16,036
Speaker 3: as you know. And they got a saying that we

813
00:47:16,236 --> 00:47:20,556
Speaker 3: all brothers in the foxhole. We all brothers in the foxhole.

814
00:47:20,596 --> 00:47:24,836
Speaker 3: No matter who, what color you are, what gender you are,

815
00:47:25,396 --> 00:47:28,476
Speaker 3: we in that foxhole together. We're down for the struggle together.

816
00:47:28,596 --> 00:47:31,956
Speaker 3: We're riding together, you know what I mean. And that's

817
00:47:32,076 --> 00:47:36,636
Speaker 3: that's what it was, the Digital family, you know, like

818
00:47:36,796 --> 00:47:39,716
Speaker 3: we got pac you know what I mean, We got them.

819
00:47:40,276 --> 00:47:45,076
Speaker 1: There's an incredible story about you guys coming back to

820
00:47:45,156 --> 00:47:49,676
Speaker 1: the Bay Area and going to a affair in Marin,

821
00:47:49,796 --> 00:47:52,676
Speaker 1: the County Fair of Marin. Can you tell that story.

822
00:47:53,036 --> 00:48:00,116
Speaker 3: Yeah, Park had was really being he was blowing up

823
00:48:00,316 --> 00:48:03,676
Speaker 3: his success. He had already done Juice. I think he

824
00:48:03,756 --> 00:48:07,196
Speaker 3: had Apocalypse now out. He has, you know, success with that.

825
00:48:07,396 --> 00:48:09,756
Speaker 3: So he was doing good and he wanted to get

826
00:48:09,796 --> 00:48:13,516
Speaker 3: back to his community where he came from over there

827
00:48:13,516 --> 00:48:15,956
Speaker 3: in Marin. And we went back for the fair and

828
00:48:16,036 --> 00:48:21,716
Speaker 3: these dudes started a fight, and you know, we came

829
00:48:21,796 --> 00:48:27,596
Speaker 3: with our cousins, the l Saints outlawed Edie when he

830
00:48:27,716 --> 00:48:30,796
Speaker 3: was younger. You know, they were all young and some

831
00:48:30,956 --> 00:48:32,796
Speaker 3: other kids from the neighborhood in Richmond.

832
00:48:33,116 --> 00:48:35,196
Speaker 2: We went to the fair. We had no ill or

833
00:48:35,316 --> 00:48:38,636
Speaker 2: mall intent, and dudes just walked up the.

834
00:48:38,676 --> 00:48:42,636
Speaker 3: Bout what you say about Marine City bow sock pock

835
00:48:42,796 --> 00:48:45,196
Speaker 3: up just hit him in the face and it was on.

836
00:48:46,196 --> 00:48:48,116
Speaker 3: And then we knew we were out dumbled and tried

837
00:48:48,196 --> 00:48:52,796
Speaker 3: to get up out of there, and you know, we

838
00:48:52,916 --> 00:48:56,836
Speaker 3: got up out of there, thank god. But a child

839
00:48:56,996 --> 00:49:01,396
Speaker 3: was killed. You know, they were shooting. We was you know,

840
00:49:01,636 --> 00:49:07,116
Speaker 3: it was going down. They were shooting, and it's unfortunate.

841
00:49:07,556 --> 00:49:09,796
Speaker 1: The aftermath of that, like what what do you guys

842
00:49:09,876 --> 00:49:13,076
Speaker 1: even talk about it? What's the vibe after that?

843
00:49:13,196 --> 00:49:16,636
Speaker 3: It was, you know the worst day of our lives.

844
00:49:17,116 --> 00:49:22,596
Speaker 3: You know, none of us wanted anything like that to happen, but.

845
00:49:22,756 --> 00:49:27,956
Speaker 2: We realized out here in this world, in this game,

846
00:49:29,076 --> 00:49:34,156
Speaker 2: with this much attention, these things could happen, and we

847
00:49:34,236 --> 00:49:40,716
Speaker 2: didn't have no security. Really, it was just us, you know,

848
00:49:41,036 --> 00:49:42,036
Speaker 2: probably just starting now.

849
00:49:42,116 --> 00:49:45,796
Speaker 3: We couldn't actually afford it, you know, and he really

850
00:49:45,916 --> 00:49:49,196
Speaker 3: needed extra and you know, that's kind of got to

851
00:49:49,236 --> 00:49:51,356
Speaker 3: look at the label and all that as far as

852
00:49:51,436 --> 00:49:54,316
Speaker 3: that goes. But he was a movie star as well

853
00:49:54,676 --> 00:49:58,676
Speaker 3: as a successful rapper. Now, so his popularity was high.

854
00:49:59,556 --> 00:50:01,516
Speaker 3: And all we had was us, you know what I mean.

855
00:50:02,596 --> 00:50:03,916
Speaker 3: And we was out there with.

856
00:50:04,236 --> 00:50:06,796
Speaker 2: Our cousins, with our kids, and.

857
00:50:09,876 --> 00:50:12,396
Speaker 3: Cash Show had a cast on his leg at the

858
00:50:12,476 --> 00:50:15,156
Speaker 3: time to his heap, you know, one of them long casts,

859
00:50:15,956 --> 00:50:17,916
Speaker 3: and so you know, dudes are shooting at us.

860
00:50:17,956 --> 00:50:20,716
Speaker 2: We're trying to run, and it was just bad. It

861
00:50:20,796 --> 00:50:21,596
Speaker 2: was a bad day.

862
00:50:22,156 --> 00:50:23,876
Speaker 1: The cops even gotten boy, I mean, you got you

863
00:50:23,916 --> 00:50:26,636
Speaker 1: got a gun, yeah, pulled right to your head by

864
00:50:26,676 --> 00:50:26,996
Speaker 1: a cop.

865
00:50:27,556 --> 00:50:27,756
Speaker 2: Yeah.

866
00:50:27,876 --> 00:50:31,076
Speaker 3: Sheriff put the yeah. Cheryff put a pistol to my head.

867
00:50:31,636 --> 00:50:37,316
Speaker 3: And the crowd was attacking us, and it was me

868
00:50:37,396 --> 00:50:39,436
Speaker 3: and parking in front. We were trying to wait for

869
00:50:39,636 --> 00:50:41,756
Speaker 3: everybody to get in the truck so get out of there.

870
00:50:42,076 --> 00:50:47,036
Speaker 3: And we were waiting at the same time. The sheriff

871
00:50:47,036 --> 00:50:50,196
Speaker 3: had a pistol to uh my head. But the crowd

872
00:50:50,716 --> 00:50:54,076
Speaker 3: is still coming. They're throwing rocks, they throw they mad,

873
00:50:54,156 --> 00:50:56,676
Speaker 3: they're angry, you know what I mean, And you know,

874
00:50:56,756 --> 00:51:00,196
Speaker 3: because they think popped this marine. They busted out the window,

875
00:51:00,316 --> 00:51:02,876
Speaker 3: started busting all the windows. But then they started pulling

876
00:51:02,916 --> 00:51:05,796
Speaker 3: on the doors. It started pulling on the doors. It

877
00:51:05,876 --> 00:51:08,356
Speaker 3: was going to yank think it was easy on that said,

878
00:51:08,396 --> 00:51:09,956
Speaker 3: it was about the young come out and it was

879
00:51:09,996 --> 00:51:10,276
Speaker 3: going to.

880
00:51:10,716 --> 00:51:17,596
Speaker 2: Get even worse. So I evaded. I evaded.

881
00:51:17,796 --> 00:51:20,276
Speaker 3: There was a lot going on, So I think that

882
00:51:20,476 --> 00:51:23,796
Speaker 3: the sheriff got distracted, popped it in reverse.

883
00:51:24,156 --> 00:51:26,916
Speaker 2: It was I got us about it. It I got

884
00:51:26,996 --> 00:51:27,476
Speaker 2: us about it.

885
00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:31,076
Speaker 3: Also, as the older brother, I felt responsible for taking

886
00:51:31,116 --> 00:51:33,156
Speaker 3: care of everybody to a certain degree.

887
00:51:33,476 --> 00:51:35,396
Speaker 1: And you really did play that older brother role, I

888
00:51:35,476 --> 00:51:37,596
Speaker 1: mean until I mean, I didn't really know that story

889
00:51:37,676 --> 00:51:40,796
Speaker 1: that things got. I mean, I know things got kind

890
00:51:40,796 --> 00:51:43,796
Speaker 1: of weird at Death Throw, but that you got pushed

891
00:51:43,836 --> 00:51:45,436
Speaker 1: out seems that way.

892
00:51:46,276 --> 00:51:49,156
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we were at that time.

893
00:51:49,876 --> 00:51:54,116
Speaker 3: Now that's years later, like five years later, but at

894
00:51:54,156 --> 00:51:58,476
Speaker 3: that time we were repping. We had been repping thug life,

895
00:51:59,036 --> 00:52:05,516
Speaker 3: which had its own power. Death Row had its own power.

896
00:52:06,196 --> 00:52:10,076
Speaker 3: I thought when we combined forces, you know, we all

897
00:52:10,156 --> 00:52:13,556
Speaker 3: be allies riding together, rah, you know. But there was

898
00:52:13,556 --> 00:52:15,756
Speaker 3: a lot of gang shit going on. You know, this

899
00:52:15,996 --> 00:52:19,156
Speaker 3: is that Throws La. A lot of gang shit going on,

900
00:52:19,556 --> 00:52:24,716
Speaker 3: and you know, gang practices and how they get down.

901
00:52:25,436 --> 00:52:29,596
Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't necessarily how we got down, and uh,

902
00:52:30,516 --> 00:52:32,996
Speaker 3: you know, shit didn't like me.

903
00:52:34,516 --> 00:52:36,636
Speaker 2: Who knew I ain't never had nothing.

904
00:52:36,436 --> 00:52:40,636
Speaker 3: Against the brother, So a lot of pressures started coming

905
00:52:40,676 --> 00:52:44,676
Speaker 3: down on me in different ways. So I decided to

906
00:52:45,996 --> 00:52:50,556
Speaker 3: gracefully bow out. My brother's grown. Now he went from

907
00:52:50,596 --> 00:52:55,116
Speaker 3: a young man to a man. He was growing. He

908
00:52:55,196 --> 00:52:57,516
Speaker 3: became from a young man to a man. Now he's

909
00:52:57,556 --> 00:53:02,716
Speaker 3: a grown man, and he was making his own decisions.

910
00:53:04,276 --> 00:53:07,356
Speaker 3: And you know, we're big on freedom. Let them have

911
00:53:07,476 --> 00:53:11,836
Speaker 3: his freedom, you know. I I try as much as

912
00:53:11,916 --> 00:53:18,556
Speaker 3: possible to influence him and all the positive ways, you

913
00:53:18,676 --> 00:53:23,396
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And he took he he learned

914
00:53:23,396 --> 00:53:25,196
Speaker 3: a lot of lessons, he soaked up a lot of game,

915
00:53:25,276 --> 00:53:26,156
Speaker 3: but he was still him.

916
00:53:26,436 --> 00:53:28,196
Speaker 2: He was not not going to be him.

917
00:53:28,756 --> 00:53:32,716
Speaker 1: About that time, though. He opens up an office out

918
00:53:32,756 --> 00:53:36,356
Speaker 1: of your ant's apartment, his dances apartment, and so you

919
00:53:36,356 --> 00:53:38,836
Speaker 1: would go through by there and Fame he would be there,

920
00:53:38,996 --> 00:53:41,156
Speaker 1: and just different family be it was more of a

921
00:53:41,236 --> 00:53:41,956
Speaker 1: family thing.

922
00:53:41,956 --> 00:53:44,156
Speaker 2: But not so much Fanny, but yes, mean, but she'd

923
00:53:44,156 --> 00:53:44,596
Speaker 2: at least.

924
00:53:44,476 --> 00:53:46,316
Speaker 1: Be his apartment and you go to his apartment sometimes,

925
00:53:46,356 --> 00:53:47,716
Speaker 1: so there were you were around the family.

926
00:53:48,156 --> 00:53:51,196
Speaker 3: Whether yeah, yeah, I would go to the house. Once

927
00:53:51,316 --> 00:53:55,676
Speaker 3: I stepped away, I would go to the to his house.

928
00:53:56,116 --> 00:53:59,876
Speaker 3: He would be at the he was in Calabasas, because

929
00:54:00,236 --> 00:54:02,596
Speaker 3: you know, I still loved him. He knew I still

930
00:54:02,636 --> 00:54:07,516
Speaker 3: loved him. I was mad at him, you know, with

931
00:54:07,636 --> 00:54:10,356
Speaker 3: the whole depth throw ship. I felt like he could

932
00:54:10,396 --> 00:54:14,396
Speaker 3: have made that go a different way, you know, But

933
00:54:14,516 --> 00:54:18,996
Speaker 3: I realized he was under pressure himself, so I didn't

934
00:54:18,996 --> 00:54:20,556
Speaker 3: want to make it no harder for him.

935
00:54:20,796 --> 00:54:20,996
Speaker 2: Yeah.

936
00:54:22,116 --> 00:54:24,676
Speaker 1: But and was that the consensus with the with the

937
00:54:24,756 --> 00:54:26,516
Speaker 1: rest of the family too. It was just sort of like, hey,

938
00:54:26,596 --> 00:54:27,756
Speaker 1: this isn't this isn't.

939
00:54:28,756 --> 00:54:34,516
Speaker 3: Well, everybody wasn't privy to the same information and experiences.

940
00:54:34,916 --> 00:54:35,116
Speaker 2: You know.

941
00:54:35,716 --> 00:54:39,916
Speaker 3: I was a front line soldier, so I was around

942
00:54:40,716 --> 00:54:43,396
Speaker 3: for the good and bad and uh, you know, and

943
00:54:43,756 --> 00:54:47,716
Speaker 3: in all the ways. And I guess my presence wasn't

944
00:54:48,516 --> 00:54:49,796
Speaker 3: desired or required.

945
00:54:49,476 --> 00:54:58,316
Speaker 2: Anymore, ain't. Okay? Okay, you know right, because we had

946
00:54:58,396 --> 00:54:59,636
Speaker 2: a positive.

947
00:55:01,716 --> 00:55:04,596
Speaker 3: At first, we had a positive outlook with Death Throat

948
00:55:05,676 --> 00:55:10,236
Speaker 3: because Parker was always wanted to support black business, and

949
00:55:10,796 --> 00:55:13,156
Speaker 3: park had done good business with Sugar in the past.

950
00:55:13,556 --> 00:55:14,636
Speaker 2: On the above the.

951
00:55:14,676 --> 00:55:18,356
Speaker 1: Rit movie on the soundtrack paid him stupid for it,

952
00:55:18,596 --> 00:55:20,036
Speaker 1: so they had a good relationship.

953
00:55:20,276 --> 00:55:23,796
Speaker 3: It's not you know, Sugar is who he is. But

954
00:55:23,956 --> 00:55:26,356
Speaker 3: they had a good relationship. Pac was you know, they

955
00:55:26,476 --> 00:55:28,436
Speaker 3: was trying to get that was trying to get parking

956
00:55:30,316 --> 00:55:33,356
Speaker 3: keep your head up days. And he asked again, he

957
00:55:33,596 --> 00:55:37,156
Speaker 3: asked me what I thought. I'm like, Yo, why you

958
00:55:37,196 --> 00:55:39,436
Speaker 3: want to be on somebody else's ship where they're the

959
00:55:39,476 --> 00:55:42,876
Speaker 3: captain here right now, you're the captain on your own ship, right,

960
00:55:42,956 --> 00:55:46,156
Speaker 3: you should do this, you know, until he couldn't do

961
00:55:46,196 --> 00:55:47,676
Speaker 3: it no more and he needed some help.

962
00:55:47,716 --> 00:55:48,556
Speaker 2: And that's what that happened.

963
00:55:49,596 --> 00:55:53,436
Speaker 1: Well after poc pasted what was it was? And I

964
00:55:53,556 --> 00:55:55,356
Speaker 1: know after pock Past, Sugar kind of went through his

965
00:55:55,436 --> 00:55:57,276
Speaker 1: own He had his own thing going on. You know,

966
00:55:57,356 --> 00:55:59,356
Speaker 1: he had a bunch of legal issues right after that happened.

967
00:55:59,556 --> 00:56:01,476
Speaker 1: Was there communication between the family and Sugar and the

968
00:56:01,516 --> 00:56:04,236
Speaker 1: way you might imagine that people might have imagined there

969
00:56:04,356 --> 00:56:05,596
Speaker 1: being I.

970
00:56:05,676 --> 00:56:09,556
Speaker 3: Mean, you know, my sister asked him directly, and he

971
00:56:09,636 --> 00:56:11,716
Speaker 3: said he didn't have nothing to do with what happened

972
00:56:11,756 --> 00:56:13,596
Speaker 3: to Pop And and.

973
00:56:15,276 --> 00:56:16,636
Speaker 2: Believe it or not, I believe it.

974
00:56:18,356 --> 00:56:23,516
Speaker 3: Because my brother gave him power his relationship, my brother,

975
00:56:23,796 --> 00:56:27,556
Speaker 3: my brother gave him power. So I don't see why

976
00:56:27,636 --> 00:56:32,956
Speaker 3: he would destroy power source. That's why investigations going on.

977
00:56:33,076 --> 00:56:35,916
Speaker 3: We gonna see whoever the fuck it was part of

978
00:56:35,996 --> 00:56:40,916
Speaker 3: my French you know. But yeah, that's that's about as

979
00:56:40,996 --> 00:56:43,316
Speaker 3: much as it went though, because he was dealing with

980
00:56:43,396 --> 00:56:44,316
Speaker 3: his own ship as well.

981
00:56:45,356 --> 00:56:47,716
Speaker 1: Did the family have a bad feeling towards Sugar that

982
00:56:47,876 --> 00:56:50,556
Speaker 1: at that point or was it? Like I guess I'm

983
00:56:50,556 --> 00:56:51,396
Speaker 1: just trying tounderstand like.

984
00:56:52,196 --> 00:56:56,196
Speaker 2: What I mean, we were all confused.

985
00:56:56,716 --> 00:56:59,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, that throw was a top dog and they were strong,

986
00:57:00,556 --> 00:57:05,716
Speaker 3: and they had a big security company securing them, and

987
00:57:05,996 --> 00:57:09,036
Speaker 3: they had gang bangers on the label, and you know,

988
00:57:09,276 --> 00:57:16,316
Speaker 3: they should have been safe. Yeah, but you know, things

989
00:57:16,316 --> 00:57:22,436
Speaker 3: started happening to where, uh, you know, these these random

990
00:57:22,636 --> 00:57:26,796
Speaker 3: things would happen, these random fights would happen where which

991
00:57:27,996 --> 00:57:31,556
Speaker 3: causing be attacked, you know. But you know, I feel

992
00:57:31,556 --> 00:57:35,716
Speaker 3: it was orchestrated. I feel it was orchestrated. I may

993
00:57:35,796 --> 00:57:36,916
Speaker 3: be wrong, but we gonna see.

994
00:57:37,316 --> 00:57:39,676
Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel confident will get some answers.

995
00:57:40,596 --> 00:57:43,756
Speaker 2: We're gonna get more than we got now, mm hmm.

996
00:57:44,316 --> 00:57:45,636
Speaker 2: We're gonna get more than we got now.

997
00:57:46,556 --> 00:57:46,716
Speaker 1: You know.

998
00:57:46,916 --> 00:57:50,436
Speaker 3: But what pisces me off is that you know, shit

999
00:57:50,556 --> 00:57:54,036
Speaker 3: is blatant. They right, but yeah, I kill him. Yeah, yeah,

1000
00:57:54,196 --> 00:58:00,436
Speaker 3: gave me the good Okay. Okay, okay, okay, all y'all

1001
00:58:00,516 --> 00:58:03,596
Speaker 3: tough guys, Okay, we go see. You know, I mean

1002
00:58:04,156 --> 00:58:12,916
Speaker 3: it's really you know, I mean, uh, how does hold

1003
00:58:13,116 --> 00:58:15,796
Speaker 3: some responsibility.

1004
00:58:16,236 --> 00:58:24,316
Speaker 2: For the the way he went about it? But you

1005
00:58:24,396 --> 00:58:25,156
Speaker 2: know he went wrong.

1006
00:58:25,236 --> 00:58:27,556
Speaker 3: It was just it was just a perfect It was

1007
00:58:27,596 --> 00:58:32,356
Speaker 3: a perfect storm. It was a perfect storm. The stuff

1008
00:58:32,396 --> 00:58:35,036
Speaker 3: that was going on on the East Coast with Biggie

1009
00:58:35,156 --> 00:58:40,036
Speaker 3: and Puffy and Sugar had his own issues with dude.

1010
00:58:41,556 --> 00:58:44,596
Speaker 3: It was just you know, you know, uh, enemy of

1011
00:58:44,716 --> 00:58:46,476
Speaker 3: my enemy is my friend, you know what I mean

1012
00:58:47,236 --> 00:58:50,876
Speaker 3: that that that's kind of what was happening. And it was.

1013
00:58:52,556 --> 00:58:55,236
Speaker 2: The storm was so perfect it was hard to not

1014
00:58:55,476 --> 00:58:57,436
Speaker 2: to for it not to take off like that.

1015
00:58:57,716 --> 00:59:03,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fog a war situation in hindsight might be clear,

1016
00:59:03,276 --> 00:59:07,316
Speaker 1: what you know. But right, and a lot of the

1017
00:59:07,356 --> 00:59:10,716
Speaker 1: guys that were like Parc was like Stretch and you know,

1018
00:59:10,956 --> 00:59:12,796
Speaker 1: like you knew you knew those guys.

1019
00:59:14,076 --> 00:59:16,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew Biggie Stretch.

1020
00:59:16,596 --> 00:59:18,636
Speaker 1: Going back now to the Quad shooting, you knew like

1021
00:59:18,716 --> 00:59:23,356
Speaker 1: you knew, Like so when Pack was adamant that those

1022
00:59:23,396 --> 00:59:28,316
Speaker 1: guys were involved, Haitian, Jack Stretch, Big Puff, Like, were

1023
00:59:28,316 --> 00:59:32,116
Speaker 1: you kind of like taking aback by that seeing as

1024
00:59:32,156 --> 00:59:32,876
Speaker 1: you knew those people.

1025
00:59:34,636 --> 00:59:41,796
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I just didn't know to what degree the

1026
00:59:41,876 --> 00:59:48,796
Speaker 3: relationships had deteriorated. Yeah, because as of that day, Park

1027
00:59:48,956 --> 00:59:52,236
Speaker 3: was cool with all them. Pack was cool until that day.

1028
00:59:52,756 --> 00:59:53,916
Speaker 3: Pack was cool with all of them.

1029
00:59:55,356 --> 00:59:55,476
Speaker 1: Uh.

1030
00:59:56,236 --> 00:59:59,196
Speaker 3: Pack was thinking about possibly signing seeing these are the

1031
00:59:59,276 --> 01:00:00,116
Speaker 3: things that people don't know.

1032
01:00:00,916 --> 01:00:04,516
Speaker 2: Pak was thinking about possibly signing Big too.

1033
01:00:05,636 --> 01:00:05,796
Speaker 1: Uh.

1034
01:00:06,796 --> 01:00:07,556
Speaker 2: Out the Gutter.

1035
01:00:07,716 --> 01:00:11,996
Speaker 3: People forget that Poc had a label deal. He was

1036
01:00:12,076 --> 01:00:14,796
Speaker 3: finally in a position where he could sign artists. He

1037
01:00:14,956 --> 01:00:16,756
Speaker 3: was putting us to our first Thug.

1038
01:00:16,596 --> 01:00:19,876
Speaker 1: Life volume one is on Out the Gutter right, correct, correct.

1039
01:00:20,356 --> 01:00:23,916
Speaker 3: So he was in a position and we did songs

1040
01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:27,876
Speaker 3: together Pocket Pocket Outlaws. This song were big, and you know,

1041
01:00:28,276 --> 01:00:30,636
Speaker 3: it was a real relationship there. You even said running

1042
01:00:30,756 --> 01:00:34,316
Speaker 3: was supposed to be running from the police that comes

1043
01:00:34,356 --> 01:00:35,596
Speaker 3: out of the thug Life concept.

1044
01:00:36,236 --> 01:00:38,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, it was all about thug life

1045
01:00:38,956 --> 01:00:39,436
Speaker 2: at that time.

1046
01:00:40,236 --> 01:00:44,396
Speaker 3: And that's one of the projects that Park worked on

1047
01:00:44,596 --> 01:00:46,996
Speaker 3: the longest, was the Thug Life project.

1048
01:00:47,916 --> 01:00:49,036
Speaker 2: About two and a half years.

1049
01:00:49,076 --> 01:00:51,956
Speaker 3: We worked on that straight out of Actually, while we

1050
01:00:52,036 --> 01:00:54,836
Speaker 3: were still working on strictly for my niggas kind of.

1051
01:00:54,916 --> 01:01:02,156
Speaker 3: That's when the thug life materials started being created. Hell

1052
01:01:02,196 --> 01:01:05,716
Speaker 3: of an hell of a ride, man, it's been an

1053
01:01:05,756 --> 01:01:10,316
Speaker 3: hell of a ride. But yeah, so you know, when

1054
01:01:10,396 --> 01:01:13,476
Speaker 3: things turn from sugar to shit, it's usually a reason,

1055
01:01:14,196 --> 01:01:18,316
Speaker 3: you know. And with our success, with the music success,

1056
01:01:18,596 --> 01:01:21,956
Speaker 3: and Pac was having film success, that movie star shit

1057
01:01:22,196 --> 01:01:25,956
Speaker 3: just kept getting bigger. You know, comes a lot of

1058
01:01:26,036 --> 01:01:30,076
Speaker 3: jealousy and envy, and that's a another thing you gotta

1059
01:01:30,156 --> 01:01:36,076
Speaker 3: deal with that. It's hard to explain, you know, why

1060
01:01:36,116 --> 01:01:37,516
Speaker 3: you got beef with that nigga. I don't know why

1061
01:01:37,516 --> 01:01:39,116
Speaker 3: I got beef with that nigga. He just don't like me,

1062
01:01:39,756 --> 01:01:41,916
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, So tell you and then

1063
01:01:42,036 --> 01:01:43,956
Speaker 3: that turns into something, you know.

1064
01:01:45,036 --> 01:01:48,756
Speaker 1: So you were seeing that around, like people around being.

1065
01:01:49,036 --> 01:01:54,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Pac was, you know, he was unapologetic. He said, yeah, nigga,

1066
01:01:54,196 --> 01:01:57,236
Speaker 3: I'm the best. I'm the best, and y'all should support

1067
01:01:57,276 --> 01:01:59,116
Speaker 3: me because I'm a ride for y'all. I'm a ride

1068
01:01:59,156 --> 01:02:01,036
Speaker 3: for the people. And he's like, y'all should know me

1069
01:02:01,156 --> 01:02:03,396
Speaker 3: by now, y'all should know me by now. I'm a

1070
01:02:03,556 --> 01:02:09,436
Speaker 3: ride for the people. And that resonated. People felt that, Yeah,

1071
01:02:10,476 --> 01:02:10,876
Speaker 3: mm hmm.

1072
01:02:11,116 --> 01:02:11,316
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1073
01:02:11,916 --> 01:02:13,676
Speaker 1: And it's amazing too, how you guys stayed in touch

1074
01:02:13,756 --> 01:02:17,556
Speaker 1: with with Matulu the whole way, the whole time. I mean,

1075
01:02:17,596 --> 01:02:20,196
Speaker 1: there's one of the funniest Trying to end on a

1076
01:02:20,876 --> 01:02:24,076
Speaker 1: lighter note, man, one of the funniest anecdotes in the book.

1077
01:02:24,756 --> 01:02:28,956
Speaker 1: It's where it comes from your dad. When when uh

1078
01:02:29,636 --> 01:02:32,236
Speaker 1: you and Parker on the phone with Metulu and you're

1079
01:02:32,276 --> 01:02:36,236
Speaker 1: telling them about how Park's kind of hanging out with

1080
01:02:36,316 --> 01:02:36,716
Speaker 1: my daughter.

1081
01:02:40,036 --> 01:02:45,036
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, now, my pops has his reputations with

1082
01:02:45,276 --> 01:02:50,956
Speaker 3: his uh ladies of of all types. So you know,

1083
01:02:51,316 --> 01:02:53,276
Speaker 3: he you know, he was trying to drop the game

1084
01:02:53,396 --> 01:02:56,316
Speaker 3: on us, you know, you know, because he he still

1085
01:02:56,396 --> 01:02:58,836
Speaker 3: want to be considered a player. I look a here,

1086
01:02:58,916 --> 01:03:02,556
Speaker 3: and I look a here, y'all, don't don't have sex

1087
01:03:02,636 --> 01:03:05,956
Speaker 3: with her sex of mind, sex and mind get into

1088
01:03:06,036 --> 01:03:09,636
Speaker 3: a mind find I wish you're coming from it. Me

1089
01:03:09,756 --> 01:03:12,876
Speaker 3: and Pa was like, yo, we started a buzz out

1090
01:03:12,916 --> 01:03:17,836
Speaker 3: of it. I'm like, dude, all right, I'm too little, okay, sure, sure,

1091
01:03:17,996 --> 01:03:27,476
Speaker 3: they too late, And man on, it's Madonna. The money

1092
01:03:27,476 --> 01:03:30,316
Speaker 3: actually hinds up and some might have been some game

1093
01:03:30,396 --> 01:03:33,636
Speaker 3: in that throw and hindsight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but

1094
01:03:33,876 --> 01:03:37,596
Speaker 3: it was too late. It's actually too late sex from

1095
01:03:37,716 --> 01:03:41,316
Speaker 3: mine first. Yeah, and I mean we talked all the

1096
01:03:41,396 --> 01:03:45,156
Speaker 3: time because it was like that's the closest the family

1097
01:03:45,236 --> 01:03:50,516
Speaker 3: could be to reuniting. Yeah, you know, you know we

1098
01:03:50,596 --> 01:03:53,716
Speaker 3: could finally talk. I mean it was through the prison

1099
01:03:53,836 --> 01:03:56,796
Speaker 3: phone and all the face listening, but at least we

1100
01:03:56,836 --> 01:04:01,156
Speaker 3: can hear his voice, share a laugh, soak up a

1101
01:04:01,196 --> 01:04:04,636
Speaker 3: little game and if you had a chance to go visit. Yeah,

1102
01:04:05,196 --> 01:04:09,756
Speaker 3: that's why we really he Matulu wanted to see us

1103
01:04:09,796 --> 01:04:11,996
Speaker 3: and we wanted to see him. So he made sure

1104
01:04:12,076 --> 01:04:17,196
Speaker 3: when he started doing the events in prison for the prisoners,

1105
01:04:17,716 --> 01:04:21,516
Speaker 3: he made sure that we were included. We had become

1106
01:04:21,596 --> 01:04:26,316
Speaker 3: big enough now where you know, it was actually a

1107
01:04:26,436 --> 01:04:29,396
Speaker 3: nice you know, an event to have Pac come and perform,

1108
01:04:30,156 --> 01:04:32,996
Speaker 3: you know, And this was he wanted. Park wanted it

1109
01:04:33,156 --> 01:04:36,596
Speaker 3: to be specifically Thug Life. They come perform, and we

1110
01:04:36,716 --> 01:04:40,116
Speaker 3: performed them Park Prison, Doug Life Crew, y m V,

1111
01:04:40,316 --> 01:04:45,036
Speaker 3: Big Side, Big Surge. That was like the last time me,

1112
01:04:45,396 --> 01:04:48,876
Speaker 3: Park my father were together was in that prison.

1113
01:04:49,956 --> 01:04:57,516
Speaker 2: Wow. And yeah yeah, and we took a bunch of

1114
01:04:57,596 --> 01:04:59,756
Speaker 2: pictures with all the crews. I mean, there was.

1115
01:05:02,036 --> 01:05:04,516
Speaker 3: It was almost didn't go down because it was almost

1116
01:05:04,556 --> 01:05:09,716
Speaker 3: a riot, so Matulu able to piece it out. We

1117
01:05:09,836 --> 01:05:14,156
Speaker 3: had to take pictures with all the crews, DC crew DC, Mob,

1118
01:05:14,756 --> 01:05:22,516
Speaker 3: Island Boys, uh Vy Boys, the Bloods, cribs, you know,

1119
01:05:23,596 --> 01:05:27,636
Speaker 3: all the black gangs, BGF. You know, we took like

1120
01:05:27,756 --> 01:05:30,196
Speaker 3: so many pictures that day. I don't wonder anybody got any,

1121
01:05:30,316 --> 01:05:34,836
Speaker 3: but yeah, we were able to find a few from

1122
01:05:34,876 --> 01:05:39,076
Speaker 3: the Lompop performances in the book, and people, please buy

1123
01:05:39,156 --> 01:05:42,156
Speaker 3: the book, This Doug's Life. We got twenty four photos

1124
01:05:42,196 --> 01:05:46,236
Speaker 3: in there, so never before seen photos. Big Matula up

1125
01:05:46,276 --> 01:05:48,796
Speaker 3: in there, you know, Fanny, you know I tried. We

1126
01:05:48,956 --> 01:05:52,516
Speaker 3: tried very hard to get the pictures right. I think

1127
01:05:52,556 --> 01:05:54,996
Speaker 3: I messed up my mama's picture with my grandmothera picture,

1128
01:05:55,036 --> 01:05:57,156
Speaker 3: but I don't know how that happened, but I hope

1129
01:05:57,196 --> 01:05:57,796
Speaker 3: she's still on me.

1130
01:05:58,076 --> 01:06:00,476
Speaker 1: Next edition. Figure you can correct that and I'll get

1131
01:06:00,556 --> 01:06:03,036
Speaker 1: faced next time. Have you had a chance, like to,

1132
01:06:03,196 --> 01:06:05,396
Speaker 1: like have set read the book or anything like that

1133
01:06:05,516 --> 01:06:08,396
Speaker 1: and talk to family any want upset ever people happy people.

1134
01:06:09,356 --> 01:06:12,116
Speaker 2: It's so much anxiety with that ship, especially this type

1135
01:06:12,116 --> 01:06:15,036
Speaker 2: of book. It's a memoir. I bet, yeah, So first

1136
01:06:15,076 --> 01:06:16,836
Speaker 2: I had to you know, we're from the keep a

1137
01:06:16,916 --> 01:06:17,596
Speaker 2: real generation.

1138
01:06:17,716 --> 01:06:20,516
Speaker 3: I had to keep it real as possible, and I

1139
01:06:20,676 --> 01:06:23,356
Speaker 3: try to be as genuine as possible. But you know,

1140
01:06:24,596 --> 01:06:30,836
Speaker 3: you know, colhard truth sometimes comes over cold, you know,

1141
01:06:33,116 --> 01:06:34,436
Speaker 3: but they know I ain't lying.

1142
01:06:35,116 --> 01:06:37,356
Speaker 2: You know, there ain't no lives in there.

1143
01:06:37,596 --> 01:06:39,796
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful testament to your family. Man. There's a

1144
01:06:39,836 --> 01:06:40,476
Speaker 1: lot of thank you.

1145
01:06:41,036 --> 01:06:42,516
Speaker 2: Really try, we try hard.

1146
01:06:42,916 --> 01:06:45,716
Speaker 1: It's a great read. You know, unlike a lot of people,

1147
01:06:46,396 --> 01:06:49,636
Speaker 1: you haven't spent the last thirty years running around telling

1148
01:06:50,476 --> 01:06:53,116
Speaker 1: telling every story under the sun, you know, And so

1149
01:06:53,796 --> 01:06:57,276
Speaker 1: it's it's great to finally be able to get this

1150
01:06:57,396 --> 01:06:58,996
Speaker 1: story from your vantage point, you know what I mean,

1151
01:06:59,036 --> 01:07:00,716
Speaker 1: someone that's close to Muss, his brother, and.

1152
01:07:01,116 --> 01:07:06,596
Speaker 3: I feel it's too it's too important not to make

1153
01:07:06,716 --> 01:07:10,196
Speaker 3: sure that it's you know, down for the record.

1154
01:07:10,476 --> 01:07:13,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it follows my father, involves my family, you

1155
01:07:14,076 --> 01:07:14,436
Speaker 2: know what I mean.

1156
01:07:14,476 --> 01:07:17,036
Speaker 1: It's all through the lens of the politics y'all grew

1157
01:07:17,116 --> 01:07:18,636
Speaker 1: up with, you know what I mean, And it's all

1158
01:07:18,676 --> 01:07:22,316
Speaker 1: through the lens of of of of a love of blackness.

1159
01:07:22,956 --> 01:07:26,396
Speaker 1: You know. That's why I love it's unapologetically black stories. Yes,

1160
01:07:26,716 --> 01:07:29,476
Speaker 1: the subtitle of the book, it really is. It is,

1161
01:07:29,756 --> 01:07:31,836
Speaker 1: and it's through the lens, and you even talk about

1162
01:07:31,836 --> 01:07:35,036
Speaker 1: the music through that lens, and that's that's an important

1163
01:07:35,076 --> 01:07:36,516
Speaker 1: part that a lot of people miss, I think when

1164
01:07:36,596 --> 01:07:39,436
Speaker 1: discussing even pox music or your music or you know,

1165
01:07:39,636 --> 01:07:41,116
Speaker 1: Doug life and any of it.

1166
01:07:42,476 --> 01:07:45,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait to do a series of show

1167
01:07:45,796 --> 01:07:48,316
Speaker 2: because we also touched music. Yeah.

1168
01:07:48,796 --> 01:07:52,076
Speaker 3: Now, my bah Blah Blau, my uncle Blau played with

1169
01:07:52,156 --> 01:07:58,076
Speaker 3: Gill Scott Herring's Wow the midnight band The Revolution will

1170
01:07:58,116 --> 01:08:03,236
Speaker 3: not be televised. Was he was rocking with real revolutionaries,

1171
01:08:03,356 --> 01:08:05,916
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And then my father would

1172
01:08:06,316 --> 01:08:10,396
Speaker 3: promote shows to raise money for the movement, for the

1173
01:08:10,476 --> 01:08:12,996
Speaker 3: movement in other countries see raised money for it to

1174
01:08:13,076 --> 01:08:19,836
Speaker 3: buy ambulances in Africa, ROBERTA Flag, Eddie, Paul Mary, I mean,

1175
01:08:20,196 --> 01:08:24,756
Speaker 3: major acts of the day he would promote. So that's

1176
01:08:24,756 --> 01:08:26,436
Speaker 3: why I can't wait to do a series. We could

1177
01:08:26,476 --> 01:08:28,956
Speaker 3: have the musical element, we could have all that in there.

1178
01:08:30,316 --> 01:08:34,076
Speaker 3: But yeah, Blah Blah Blah play the flute and so

1179
01:08:34,396 --> 01:08:38,436
Speaker 3: you know, we were tapped into music, you know, but

1180
01:08:38,916 --> 01:08:41,356
Speaker 3: then it became our era, the hip hop era took over,

1181
01:08:41,676 --> 01:08:43,716
Speaker 3: and you know we were doing our thing now.

1182
01:08:44,036 --> 01:08:45,996
Speaker 1: Well and you guys left your mark man you guys

1183
01:08:46,076 --> 01:08:46,676
Speaker 1: left your mark.

1184
01:08:46,756 --> 01:08:48,716
Speaker 2: Man, God is good.

1185
01:08:49,796 --> 01:08:54,436
Speaker 3: I'm thankful, grateful for you know, the successes we've had.

1186
01:08:55,436 --> 01:08:59,316
Speaker 3: It ain't been easy, but I just I'm thankful that

1187
01:08:59,436 --> 01:09:02,556
Speaker 3: their struggles wasn't for nothing. They got to see something

1188
01:09:02,596 --> 01:09:05,516
Speaker 3: good come out besides all the brothers getting locked up,

1189
01:09:05,836 --> 01:09:09,676
Speaker 3: getting killed. You know, they got to see, you know,

1190
01:09:09,836 --> 01:09:13,076
Speaker 3: outside have a little success. Yeah, you know we will.

1191
01:09:13,836 --> 01:09:15,436
Speaker 2: We take the family to general market.

1192
01:09:15,756 --> 01:09:18,996
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Mo prem Man, thank you for writing the

1193
01:09:18,996 --> 01:09:20,756
Speaker 1: book and thanks for taking the time to talk to

1194
01:09:20,836 --> 01:09:21,156
Speaker 1: me about it.

1195
01:09:21,276 --> 01:09:25,956
Speaker 2: Man, Thank you, Thank you, my brother. I appreciate you.

1196
01:09:26,196 --> 01:09:30,956
Speaker 1: Come on. In the episode description, you'll find a link

1197
01:09:30,996 --> 01:09:33,556
Speaker 1: to a playlist of our favorite songs from Moe Prematucre

1198
01:09:33,676 --> 01:09:36,236
Speaker 1: and of TUPAC. Be sure to check out YouTube dot

1199
01:09:36,276 --> 01:09:39,436
Speaker 1: com slash Broker Record podcast to see for our video interviews,

1200
01:09:39,876 --> 01:09:41,836
Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the

1201
01:09:41,876 --> 01:09:44,436
Speaker 1: Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at

1202
01:09:44,516 --> 01:09:47,916
Speaker 1: Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose,

1203
01:09:47,956 --> 01:09:50,516
Speaker 1: with marketing and help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1204
01:09:50,676 --> 01:09:54,276
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Holladay. Broken Record is production of

1205
01:09:54,316 --> 01:09:57,036
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from

1206
01:09:57,076 --> 01:10:00,596
Speaker 1: Pushkin consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a

1207
01:10:00,636 --> 01:10:03,876
Speaker 1: podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free listening

1208
01:10:03,996 --> 01:10:06,356
Speaker 1: for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus

1209
01:10:06,396 --> 01:10:09,516
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show,

1210
01:10:09,636 --> 01:10:11,556
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

1211
01:10:11,596 --> 01:10:15,156
Speaker 1: podcast app. Are theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.