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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the desperate search goes on

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Speaker 1: for a baby after a young mom to be, Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: just twenty two years old, is found dead in a

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Speaker 1: heavily wooded area, her infant cut from her stomach. What

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Speaker 1: gules would do this? Can you say death penalty? Because

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Speaker 1: I can. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Park, a twenty two year old mother from Wexford County,

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Speaker 2: is eagerly anticipating the arrival of her third child. She

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Speaker 2: is a devoted mom of two young boys, but as

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Speaker 2: her due date approaches, Rebecca misses the birth of her

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Speaker 2: baby and vanishes.

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Speaker 1: It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming to me. A twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old mom to be just days away from giving birth disappears,

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Speaker 1: her body found in a heavily wooded area. At first,

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Speaker 1: all we knew was the baby wasn't there. Now we

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Speaker 1: know the baby has been cut from her stomach, leaving

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Speaker 1: the mom to die bleed out in the woods. Where's

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Speaker 1: the baby? Straight out to Professor Forensic's death investigator Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author

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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and start of a hit podcast,

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Speaker 1: Bodybacks of Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, this is not

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Speaker 1: the first time we have seen this scenario, and you

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Speaker 1: and I both remember the first time it came to

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Speaker 1: the forefront of national headlines, and it was in the

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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson case when one of the theories that defense

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Speaker 1: attorney Mark gre Goes floated out there, I believe you

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Speaker 1: first put it out there on the Larry King Show

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Speaker 1: to just see test the waters and it bombed was

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Speaker 1: that someone had taken Lacy, had cut the baby out

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Speaker 1: of her stomach, Connor baby boy Connor, and that the

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Speaker 1: whole thing was about getting the baby and possibly selling

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Speaker 1: the baby. And we were all like, no, that would

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Speaker 1: never happen. That's too far fetched. Well, Joe Scott, it's

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Speaker 1: not too far fetched. So can a baby live when

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Speaker 1: it's there's I think Rebecca only had a few days

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Speaker 1: before she was set to deliver. Could the baby live

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Speaker 1: if it's cut out of the mom's stomach.

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Speaker 3: Sure, you're talking about a mother that's the baby is

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Speaker 3: at a thirty allegedly at a thirty eight week gestational age.

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Speaker 3: That's well beyond survivability. You know, when you begin to

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Speaker 3: think about this, it's certainly possible, it's plausible that this

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Speaker 3: could happen.

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Speaker 4: It.

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Speaker 3: I got to tell you, Nancy, out of all the

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Speaker 3: cases that we've covered in recent memory, this is one

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Speaker 3: of the most horrific when you begin to think about

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Speaker 3: what she endured. So yes, with a child like this,

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Speaker 3: I have no other way to put it. You can

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Speaker 3: have ghoules, as you put it out there, that would

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Speaker 3: want to go and harvest a baby in order to

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Speaker 3: sell it on the market, and that can that is plausible,

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Speaker 3: I think, and I think that that's something that needs

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Speaker 3: to be explored in this case.

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Speaker 1: Scott, you cannot be more correct. Sadly, the case recovering tonight,

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Speaker 1: I've Rebecca set to give birth in just days, found

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Speaker 1: dead baby cut out of stomach. Is not the first

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Speaker 1: time this scenario has played out. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you recall Michelle Wilkins. I remember listen.

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Speaker 5: Codder sentenced Dinelle Lane to one hundred years in prison

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Speaker 5: for faking her own pregnancy than luring Michelle Wilkins into

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Speaker 5: her home and cutting wilkins almost full term baby out

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Speaker 5: of her womb.

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Speaker 6: I've never seen a case as vicious, as cruel, as deliberate,

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Speaker 6: and as awful as this case.

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Speaker 5: Because of Colorado laws, the majority of charges in this

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Speaker 5: case were related to Wilkins' injuries, not the harm inflicted

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Speaker 5: on the unborn child.

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Speaker 1: That from C H H C V jy on TikTok

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Speaker 1: a perfect capsulation, But in this case, Michelle Wilkins actually

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Speaker 1: lived long enough to call nine one one. Listen address

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Speaker 1: of your emergency.

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Speaker 7: Okay, what tell me what happened?

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Speaker 8: Who cut you?

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Speaker 1: I don't know?

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Speaker 7: Okay, hangd on, hold on, please, there's okay.

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Speaker 4: Who cut you?

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Speaker 6: This girl.

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Speaker 1: To Dave Mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac.

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Speaker 1: I understand in that case, Michelle Wilkins had gone online

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Speaker 1: to a baby chat group. How did she meet her killers?

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Speaker 1: Dave mac?

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Speaker 4: The killer actually lured her with maternity clothes. Come on buy,

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Speaker 4: I'll hook you up.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: One of those things that happens in those chat rooms

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Speaker 4: is they're women who are going through the same thing

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Speaker 4: at the same time, and they quickly bond. And that's

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Speaker 4: how she lured her over and invited her into the house.

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Speaker 4: Up until the moment she's attacked. She thinks she's there

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Speaker 4: to pick up some maternity.

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Speaker 1: Clothes to Randolph Rice, adjoining us, a former prosecutor or,

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Speaker 1: current criminal defense attorney and civil lawyer at Rice's law,

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Speaker 1: what do you do? How do you defend gules like this? Now?

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Speaker 1: In this case, the mom lived, and all the other

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Speaker 1: cases we are covering tonight, the mom died, and in

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Speaker 1: many of them the baby died.

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Speaker 9: My first question, Nancy, is is was this a natural

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Speaker 9: birth that somehow went wrong? And maybe maybe Rebecca Park

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Speaker 9: was trying to cut the baby out herself. That may

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Speaker 9: be a defense.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what did you just say?

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Speaker 9: It's possible in this situation, as a defense attorney that

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Speaker 9: they may argue that this was somehow in natural birth

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Speaker 9: that Rebecca Park may have potentially tried to cut the

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Speaker 9: baby out herself.

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Speaker 1: Randolph Rice, Okay, don't ruin your currently stellar reputation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because to believe what you just said would mean that

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Park goes out in a heavily wooded area and

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Speaker 1: chooses the dirt on the ground to perform a self

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Speaker 1: induced cesarean section? Is that what your climbing would be

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Speaker 1: a great defense.

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Speaker 9: I'm open to all defenses right now, Nancy, because I

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Speaker 9: just don't know enough information, and this is the thing

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Speaker 9: that the defense attorney has to explore. They're going to

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Speaker 9: have to figure out was this natural? Was this intentional?

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Speaker 9: Or is this caused by somebody else? And we don't

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Speaker 9: know who that somebody else may be because that person

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Speaker 9: may not be around or the victim. Rather, kids speak

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Speaker 9: and tell us who did this?

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Speaker 1: If that's the case, Yes, because she's dead. To Allan

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Speaker 1: Lingle joining us, Alan, thank you for being with us tonight.

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Speaker 1: He's the editor at Deadline Detroit. It's an online daily

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Speaker 1: formerly with the Washington Post, Alan, again, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. In response to what Randolph Rice said,

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Speaker 1: and please don't hold it against him because very often

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Speaker 1: defense attorneys are between a rock and hardspot. Okay, their

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Speaker 1: client is charged with murdering the mom. The mom is

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Speaker 1: lying out in a wooded area, densely wooded area, with

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Speaker 1: her stomach cut open. What else can he argue? Tonight?

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Speaker 1: They're looking for the baby, if it survived. Could you

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Speaker 1: describe for Randolph Rice the location where, Oh, my stars,

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Speaker 1: you just had to hit me with that. There's a sonogram.

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Speaker 1: There is Rebecca's sonogram for the baby boy, for her

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Speaker 1: little baby boy. She had already picked out the name

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Speaker 1: Richie Baby Richie. The name was discovered by friends of Rebecca's.

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Speaker 1: Richard Scott Lee was to be his full name. Is

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Speaker 1: he still alive, so you know, Alan Langele, if you

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Speaker 1: could explain to Randolph Rice the location where Rebecca's body

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Speaker 1: was found sliced open. I doubt very seriously that she

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Speaker 1: chose a heavily wooded area to give birth.

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Speaker 7: She was.

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Speaker 1: To top it.

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Speaker 6: All, she was found in the Mannissee National Forest up

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Speaker 6: in northern Michigan, which is a beautiful area. People go there,

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Speaker 6: uh during the better during the summer months for canoeing, camping, fishing.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's it's a beautiful place. It's a rural,

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Speaker 6: very rural area, and people from all around the state

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Speaker 6: and from Illinois in Ohio come, uh come up there

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Speaker 6: and in the winter they're skiing up that way. It's

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Speaker 6: a beautiful forest. I mean if but I mean the

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Speaker 6: I mean the fact it is just a punch a

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Speaker 6: little hole into that defense is that if if the

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Speaker 6: abortion or if the birth went wrong, why would you

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Speaker 6: leave the body? Uh and you know, abandoned the body there. Uh,

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Speaker 6: there's no you would call you would call for help.

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Speaker 6: You would call for emergency, you know, ems or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Who would call for help an emergency? Are you talking

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Speaker 1: about the pregnant mother?

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Speaker 6: But oh no, no, the people, if they will.

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Speaker 1: I asked you to describe the location, sure where Rebecca died?

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Speaker 1: Was she bled out right? I don't even believe I'm

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Speaker 1: having this discussion, but I guess I have to under

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Speaker 1: Randolph Rice's theory that she voluntarily naturally gave birth or

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Speaker 1: plan to give birth out in this federal forest. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about how beautiful it is. Could you tell

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Speaker 1: me you were talking about camping and fishing and swimming.

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Speaker 1: What's the temperatary out there right now tonight, Alan Lingle.

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Speaker 6: Tonight, it's probably, I mean up north there, it's probably

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Speaker 6: in the low teens. I mean right now, it's very cold,

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Speaker 6: and all of Michigan, and in northern Michigan it's usually colder,

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Speaker 6: so it's pretty pretty frigid weather there.

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Speaker 1: Alan, it's sixteen degrees at night where she was found.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, let me go to doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz, the only other woman joining me tonight on

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Speaker 1: the panel. Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists specializing in cases

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Speaker 1: just like this. She's ad panthermitigation dot com. She's a

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Speaker 1: prolific author, but one of them, and my favorite, it's

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Speaker 1: where law and psychology intercept doctor Sherry Schwartz. What woman

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Speaker 1: in her right mind would go out in sixteen degree

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Speaker 1: temperature and give birth in the dirt in the forest alone,

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Speaker 1: then realize she needs to see section and cut the

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Speaker 1: baby out. This is insane.

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Speaker 10: It is insane, and only if she was actively psychotic

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Speaker 10: would she even entertain anything like that. But I haven't

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Speaker 10: heard any reports that she suffered from any sort of mental.

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Speaker 11: Illness like that.

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Speaker 10: Again, we don't have a lot of information, but that's highly,

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Speaker 10: highly unlikely.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were talking earlier with Dave mac Joscott

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Speaker 1: Morgan about how one victim had been lured in one

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Speaker 1: of those online chat rooms about giving birth and that

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Speaker 1: is where her killers met her. But very often the

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Speaker 1: killer is someone known by the victim. Joscott, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you recall another similar victim, Marlon a Choa Lopez.

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Speaker 12: Listen, these two killed the pregnantine and cut the baby

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Speaker 12: out of her womb and took it for themselves. Marlin

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Speaker 12: Achoa Lopez was part of a Facebook group for pregnant

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Speaker 12: mothers and they were all kind of like a support

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Speaker 12: group with each other. She became friends with this lady

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Speaker 12: right here, name is Clarissa Figaroa. They became friends. They

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Speaker 12: came over for tea one day, so Ochoa Lopez went

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Speaker 12: over to Figaroa's for tea and that was the last

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Speaker 12: time everyone heard from her. Desire Figaroa is her daughter

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Speaker 12: on the right, and she helped murder this pregnantine and

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Speaker 12: cut the baby out of her womb.

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Speaker 1: That is from here andersingh on TikTok, Joscott, I want

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Speaker 1: you to hear the rest of the fact. To Dave

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Speaker 1: mac these two invite the pregnant mom over for tea

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Speaker 1: and she ends up dead. What happened in that scenario.

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Speaker 4: In this particular case, the pretense was they were offering

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Speaker 4: her free baby clothes. And you know, for many new

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Speaker 4: mothers that's a big priority. You've got to have child

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Speaker 4: clothing for the does get expensive, and so Mary Lincoln

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Speaker 4: was excited at the opportunity to get some free clothing.

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Speaker 4: That's how they got her in there.

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Speaker 1: Back to you, Joe Scott Morgan, knowing what you now know,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about what exactly happened

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Speaker 1: in the case in chief tonight, the search is ongoing

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Speaker 1: for her little baby Richie, if he survived, and I

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Speaker 1: would think that his body would have been found by

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Speaker 1: now if he had died in the process. Could you

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Speaker 1: explain to me how this happened. How would an amateur

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Speaker 1: or cceyrians section take place? And we have reason to

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Speaker 1: believe that Rebecca was alive when the baby, baby Richie,

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Speaker 1: was torn from her uterus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Hey, that was a really beautiful area in Michigan there.

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Speaker 3: I've actually been there fishing before, one of the most

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Speaker 3: lovely areas in the United States. But I got to

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Speaker 3: tell you something, Nancy. You know what, I didn't see

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Speaker 3: a labor and delivery room. I didn't see an area

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Speaker 3: that is prepped in order to facilitate a cesarean. So

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Speaker 3: what are you going to do this with? Well, in

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Speaker 3: order to do this, I doubt that they're going to

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Speaker 3: show up with retractors. They're not going to have scalpels,

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Speaker 3: They're probably not going to have surgical scissors, these sorts

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Speaker 3: of things. So they're going to use tools at hand

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Speaker 3: that they have. We're talking about things like knives, that

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Speaker 3: you bring in from home, any kind of other cutting

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Speaker 3: instrument that might be available, and they're going to leave

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Speaker 3: her out there. They're going to take her at that

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Speaker 3: spot perhaps and extricate this baby from her womb. Now

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Speaker 3: they probably know enough that they're going to have to

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Speaker 3: keep her alive so that the child is going to

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Speaker 3: be viable. And that is a very, very tough passage

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Speaker 3: to go through, because if you do not have medical

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Speaker 3: training to facilitate this, you're not only going to have

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Speaker 3: a dead mom, you're going to have a dead baby

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Speaker 3: on your hand. If the the purpose of this is

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Speaker 3: to take this child and sell it on the market,

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Speaker 3: there's gonna be evidence that's left behind. Also, to go

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Speaker 3: back to this idea that this may have been some

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Speaker 3: kind of natural birth, we all know, for those of

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Speaker 3: us that are not in the medical field that I've

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Speaker 3: been present for the birth of all of my precious children.

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Speaker 3: We do know that if it's a vaginal delivery, you've

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Speaker 3: also got to push out the placenta. You're gonna be

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Speaker 3: looking for an umbilical cord, those sorts of things. So

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Speaker 3: you can kind of go back and examine the scene

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Speaker 3: from that perspective to see what is left behind. It's

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Speaker 3: not just what is taken, it's what's left behind. And

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Speaker 3: the trauma Nancy that she sustained out there on that filthy,

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Speaker 3: filthy ground in that beautiful forested area is something that

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Speaker 3: we cannot even begin to calculate.

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Speaker 1: And joining me right now is Dan Murphy, former NYPD

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Speaker 1: detective sergeant. He was on the Joint Terrorism Task Force,

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Speaker 1: former chief security officer at US Bank Corp. And he

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Speaker 1: is the co host star of gold Shields podcast. He's

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Speaker 1: also an author. Dan You and I Joe Scott. Many

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Speaker 1: people on the panel tonight have cast iron stomachs. We

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Speaker 1: have to after what we've seen on crime scenes. But

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Speaker 1: I want to brace you for what you're about to

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Speaker 1: hear regarding the victim in the case and chief there

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Speaker 1: are two victims. There's Rebecca about to give birth twenty

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Speaker 1: two years old, and there's her baby, baby Richie. We

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Speaker 1: don't know where he is tonight. Okay, I want you

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Speaker 1: to hear what one of the witnesses says that has

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Speaker 1: seen the body, and brace yourself.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to walk up to her and yes, the

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Speaker 7: animals have eight at her cheek, Her faces are there,

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Speaker 7: the animals stomach and so I don't think so, I

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Speaker 7: don't think I got this quote.

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Speaker 1: I mean, whe it's okay, okay from Jack's s on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: Dan Murphy. Other than this beautiful girl, she's twenty two,

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Speaker 1: Dan about to give birth, just days away from giving

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Speaker 1: birth out there in the woods. Her stomach got it open,

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Speaker 1: and these witnesses are describing how there has been, as

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott likes to say, animal activity on her body.

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Speaker 1: To top it all off, animals have gotten to her

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Speaker 1: out in the wilderness that all of our guests are

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Speaker 1: describing these beautiful, idealic Federal forest. I can't see it

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Speaker 1: that way after what I know happened to Rebecca there.

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Speaker 1: But the way this girl was brutalized the one thing

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Speaker 1: I'm learning of note to the brutality that was inflicted

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Speaker 1: on this pregnant mom and b number one number two,

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Speaker 1: the baby's gone. The baby was not there. Somebody took

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Speaker 1: the baby, Dan Murphy, have you ever seen anything like it?

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Speaker 1: Including all your years at NYPD.

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Speaker 13: This would have to be up there with the most

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Speaker 13: horrific the scenes I've ever seen, if not worse. Having

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Speaker 13: not seen images but hearing the descriptions is enough. This

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Speaker 13: is the stuff that makes even veteran detectives want to

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Speaker 13: have a drink or five on the way home afterwards,

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Speaker 13: because this is so you want to wash it out

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Speaker 13: of your brain.

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Speaker 14: It's so horrible.

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Speaker 3: This is what.

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Speaker 13: Reminds you that um beings are capable of unbelievable, unfathomable

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Speaker 13: acts of violence against each other. This is one that

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Speaker 13: would stick with whoever was at that scene for the

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Speaker 13: rest of their lives.

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Speaker 1: Dan Murphy, you, this is a kind of case that

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Speaker 1: makes you want to have one or five drinks after work.

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Speaker 1: I remember being so upset, distraught when I would leave

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Speaker 1: the courthouse. Of course I couldn't let a jury see.

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Speaker 1: I would have to pull my car over. I'd go

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Speaker 1: to the parking deck, load up all my stuff I

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Speaker 1: didn't dare leave in the courtroom, load everything up, get

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Speaker 1: in the car, drive away from the building, away from

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Speaker 1: the parking lot so no one connected to the case.

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Speaker 1: Then I would pull over and stop the car and

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Speaker 1: just feel sick or cry or just try to just

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Speaker 1: sit there and process what had happened. And that's how

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Speaker 1: I feel about what happened to Rebecca in this case.

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Speaker 1: And the baby is still missing.

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Speaker 13: Dan, I can totally relate to what you talked about

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Speaker 13: as your experience, and I know a lot of people

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Speaker 13: can relate to it too, if you have children, if

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Speaker 13: you are a parent, if you care about the sanctity

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Speaker 13: of life. This is shocking to the core, absolutely shocking

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Speaker 13: to the core. And even just reading about this story

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Speaker 13: can give someone experience such as myself, chills. It's a

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Speaker 13: it's a a cold hard reminder of just how brutal

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Speaker 13: people can be to each other. And this is this

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Speaker 13: is a depth not reached often in terms of that cruelty.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to walk up to her and yes, the

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Speaker 7: animals have eight adr cheeks, but the faces are there,

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Speaker 7: the animals.

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Speaker 8: Stomach and there.

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Speaker 7: I don't think so, I don't think I got I

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Speaker 7: got this quote. I mean it's.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Bomb jack'sess on TikTok Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.

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Speaker 2: Days before she is expected to give birth, Rebecca is

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Speaker 2: last scene stepping into a dark colored vehicle outside her

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Speaker 2: biological mother's home. Questions arise about who is behind the

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Speaker 2: wheel and where they take her?

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Speaker 1: Number one, where is baby Richie? And number two? Who

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Speaker 1: did this? What ghoul? What depraved ghoul would take a

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Speaker 1: young mom to be just days away from giving birth

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Speaker 1: out into the wilderness and cut her stomach open, even

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Speaker 1: saying the words are shocking. And believe me, I'm not numb.

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Speaker 1: After all the cases I've investigated, prosecuted, and covered, I'm

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Speaker 1: not numb. But when you look at a case like this,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I'm sure you agree with me. You have

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Speaker 1: to hold it together. You got to keep it together

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Speaker 1: to get through the probative. In other words, they mean

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Speaker 1: something facts and prove your case. In this case, holding

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Speaker 1: it together until you find the baby. Then you can

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Speaker 1: go home and fall apart, or as Dan Murphy said,

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Speaker 1: go have one or five drinks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with Dan that you have to. From

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Speaker 3: my perspective, you have to follow the science and stay

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Speaker 3: with it because if you look around you and you

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Speaker 3: look at what's before you relative to the humanity that

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Speaker 3: in dwells that space, it'll drive you to utter madness.

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Speaker 3: But the key here is going to be the science. Nancy.

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Speaker 3: I think you have to be relying upon that to

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Speaker 3: understand what happened to her. First off, I want to

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Speaker 3: understand what are the kinds of injuries might she have

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Speaker 3: had on her body, other than say, for instance, this

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Speaker 3: horrible incision that she's going to have over her lower abdomen.

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Speaker 3: I want to know if she was tortured in any way.

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Speaker 3: I want to know if she was compelled in any

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Speaker 3: way to wind up in this location. Was she beaten,

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Speaker 3: was she cut? Was she stabbed, was she shot? Was

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Speaker 3: she bludgeoned in any way? I want to try to

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Speaker 3: understand that, And there in is going to rest some

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Speaker 3: of the answers Nancy. Even in the state that she's in,

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Speaker 3: and if memory serves me correctly, we're talking potentially several

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Speaker 3: weeks down the road since she was last seeing alive.

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Speaker 3: Did you know, even as badly as she may have

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Speaker 3: been decomposed, we will still be able to figure out

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Speaker 3: these wound tracks relative to the hemorrhage that dwells these sites,

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Speaker 3: Because if there is hemorrhage, that's going to give us

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Speaker 3: an indication that she sustained anti mortem injuries. And plus

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Speaker 3: in the throes of having the baby removed, that's called

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Speaker 3: a perry mortem injury, there will still be hemorrhage there

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Speaker 3: and that will tell the tale.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just got morgan to remove a baby in

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Speaker 1: this manner. Of course, when a propers is hearing is

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Speaker 1: done in the hospital. The cut is I don't know,

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Speaker 1: four inches, Maybe it's horizontal, w way low down on

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Speaker 1: your stomach. I imagine amateurs would do a vertical cut

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Speaker 1: from say the brawl line down to the pubic here,

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Speaker 1: just cut the stomach open. So if and I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: I'm hypothesizing that is the way they did it. If

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Speaker 1: they did make the vertical cut I'm describing, yep, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: that sever and artery? I mean, how long would she

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Speaker 1: have been able to live?

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Speaker 3: There's multiple vessels that would be severed. And not to

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Speaker 3: mention if you go with this idea that it could

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Speaker 3: have been a vertical incision. Now you're talking about getting

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Speaker 3: into the bowel. Okay, just think about that because with

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Speaker 3: cesarean one of the reasons it's done more in a

405
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Speaker 3: southerly direction anatomically is you avoid that, all right? And

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Speaker 3: trust me, our medical professionals have been doing this for

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Speaker 3: years and years and years and years. They understand the

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Speaker 3: nature of the anatomy involved here. That's not something that

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Speaker 3: would be done in a clinical environment. So if you're

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Speaker 3: at a very rudimentary level, a barbaric level, that's what

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Speaker 3: you're going to be looking at. You're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about erupting a multitude of vessels in there. You're going

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Speaker 3: to be talking about damaging the bowl, which also has

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Speaker 3: its own blood supply. So yeah, she would bleed out

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Speaker 3: in this environment. That's really no surprise here. And I

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Speaker 3: think that when all is revealed, you're going to begin

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Speaker 3: to understand the horror that she endured during this event,

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Speaker 3: and there's really not going to be any words to

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Speaker 3: try to describe it. I think if and when the

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Speaker 3: scene makes it to trial, if it makes it to trial,

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Speaker 3: you're going to see something presented to a jury and

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Speaker 3: or to a judge that is going to shock them

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Speaker 3: to their core.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 8: And we just had them take us to whatever the

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Speaker 8: video that they wanted to show.

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Speaker 1: Us, and.

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Speaker 8: The sun or the young boy or the twenty year

429
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Speaker 8: old did not want the dad to go up and

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Speaker 8: ask if I could go up and see if it

431
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Speaker 8: was a mass or if it was really somebody and

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Speaker 8: it was Rebecca.

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Speaker 14: November twenty fifth, on a trail directly behind the home

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Speaker 14: of biomm Bartholomew, a volunteer finds the body of Rebecca.

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Speaker 14: Investigators not releasing the condition of the body or if

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Speaker 14: a newborn has been found. Rebecca was expected to give

437
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 14: birthdays before her body was located.

438
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: That from up North live. Let's start at the beginning tonight.

439
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: The search is on for Rebecca's baby boy, Richie, we

440
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: now know cut out of her stomach. How did this

441
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: whole thing start? Who is Rebecca? Listen?

442
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 14: Child Protective Services called to save Rebecca from her biological mother,

443
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 14: Courdy Bartholomew. Placed with foster mother, Stephanie Park. When parental

444
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 14: rights are terminated, Stephanie adopts Rebecca. Rebecca flourishes in the

445
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 14: Park home and enjoys grandparents and extended family. Stephanie Park

446
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 14: knows Rebecca her mother is dangerous and tries to protect

447
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 14: Rebecca from reconnecting with her. Like many adopted children, Rebecca

448
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 14: is curious about her biological mother and the two reconnect

449
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 14: so too.

450
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: Renowned psychologist forensic psychologist doctor Sherry Schwartz, Doctor Sherry Rebecca

451
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: came from an abusive home, but very early on CPS

452
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: did the right thing and removed her, put her in

453
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: a foster home, and the foster mom adopted her and

454
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: kept her, gave her a forever home. Even though she

455
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: was extremely happy growing up, she became curious about who's

456
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: my biomom? What is that? I don't know that I

457
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: understand it, doctor Sherry Schwartz. Because Rebecca had everything. She

458
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: had a loving family, grandparents, cousins, all the love a

459
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: baby could have, but she had a curiosity about her

460
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: biomom who couldn't give a fig about her, got abused

461
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: her and then gave her up. But yet she was

462
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: curious to find that bio mom.

463
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 10: We all want to know where we came from, Nancy.

464
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 10: This is one of the fundamental biological drives to know

465
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 10: our roots, our ancestry. And in a case where a

466
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 10: child is given up pretty much at any age, or

467
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 10: the parent abandons them disappears, that drive is a bit stronger.

468
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 10: The kids want to know, you know, who is this

469
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 10: person and why did they give me up? It's natural

470
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 10: to think Rebecca maybe thought it had something to do

471
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 10: with her, So you want to talk to that person

472
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 10: if they're around, and find out why.

473
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: You know.

474
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: Randolph Rice is joining US former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney,

475
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: and civil lawyer who founded Rice's Law. I know that

476
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: your firm has been involved with adoptions. It seems to

477
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: happen all the time that the child wants to go

478
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: back and find the bioparents. And I think Randolph the

479
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: doctor Shery hit it on the head. They somehow think

480
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: my mom gave me up because I fill in the blank,

481
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: I was a bad baby, She didn't want me. They

482
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: somehow blamed themselves. Have you ever noticed that? And there

483
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: is just an inherent desire to find that bio mom.

484
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

485
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 9: Typically the adoptions we handle the kids are very young,

486
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 9: but certainly as they get older, there is that curiosity,

487
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 9: the curiosity that they want to find out who their

488
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 9: parents are, who their backstory is, where'd that come from?

489
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: Maybe?

490
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 9: Who were my grandparents? And this is so important because

491
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 9: it fulfills that void that they're trying to fill in

492
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 9: life of trying to get that the answers is to

493
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 9: who am I?

494
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: You know?

495
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: I find it interesting to you, Dan Murphy, that the

496
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: adoptive mom has a premonition. She says, your biomm is trouble,

497
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: don't reconnect, don't do it. But yet Rebecca was hell

498
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: bent she wanted to find the biomm Have you ever

499
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: had cases I have where witnesses have had some sort

500
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: of a I don't know, an emotional or mental warning,

501
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: a premonition, so to speak, and it's poo pooed. Nobody

502
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: pays any attention to it.

503
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 13: Nancy. Countless times I've dealt with victims of crime who've survived,

504
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 13: and I've seen cases where people haven't where their intuition

505
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 13: or their intuition for another person's protection has kicked in

506
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 13: and their radar has been going off and they've ignored it.

507
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 13: And many times I've had victims of crime tell me,

508
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 13: you know, from hospital beds, I had a feeling about

509
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 13: that guy. I don't know why I let him in

510
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 13: the door. I don't know why I did this. I

511
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 13: don't know why I did that. But our intuition exists

512
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 13: for one reason, and that's to protect us. Now, in

513
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 13: a case like this, a mother's intuition, even an adopted

514
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 13: mother's intuition is strong. She knows the history, and she

515
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 13: relayed that to her. Sometimes you have to let people

516
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 13: find their own way, but this is a case that

517
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 13: is not unusual to that extent. People feel that parents

518
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 13: feel it strongly for those they love, and we can

519
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 13: see things sometimes that people themselves can't.

520
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 14: See, feeling contractions. At thirty eight weeks pregnant, Rebecca goes

521
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 14: to the hospital November two even though her due date

522
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 14: is not until November eighteenth. An exam reveals she's either

523
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 14: run Samarns. Rebecca has two thousand dollars cash he receives

524
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 14: as an inheritance from family in preparation for her baby.

525
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: Her cell phone has discovered abandon along a desolate two

526
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: track road. Twenty one days after her disappearance, the unthinkable happens.

527
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: Rebecca's lifeless body is found in the remote depths of

528
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: Manisty National Forest.

529
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter. There you go. That

530
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: shoots Randolph Rice's theory that she had a natural birth,

531
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: shoots it to Helen back, because who's going to go

532
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: through all that and their cell phone is not with them?

533
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: You know, Dave Matt, We've seen that over and over again.

534
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: I guess you recall Alex Murdock right the hyper while

535
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: a lawyer now convicted of murdering his wife Maggie and

536
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: son Paul. Remember Maggie's phone was found not far away

537
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: from her body was found, and it was proven through

538
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: his Alex Murdogg's NAB system. Remember that he was driving

539
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: away from the murder scene, slowed down, let down the

540
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: passenger side window throughout Maggie's cell phone, let the window

541
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: up and scratched off. That was probative where her cell

542
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: phone was found. Let's see another one. Kelsey Bareth remember

543
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: her killed by fiance Phrasy with the help of his mistress,

544
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the Rodeo Queen. Her cell phone pinged hundreds of miles

545
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: away where the two had tried to make it look

546
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: like she just left town, leaving behind her little girl

547
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: to find for herself. So where the cell phone is found?

548
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: Dave Matt can sometimes be critical, but needless to say,

549
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: in this case, Rebecca did not have her cell phone.

550
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: It was abandoned.

551
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 4: Correct it was, and it was abandoned not far from

552
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 4: where her bio mom's house is. And here's the part

553
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: that really bothers me, Nancy, because the phone was found

554
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 4: on the first day they began the real search for her.

555
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 4: And yet her body is found one hundred and fifty

556
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 4: yards from where her phone was, but we don't find

557
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: it for three weeks. It's in an area that's been searched.

558
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 4: I mean, think about it. If you're conducting a search,

559
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: you find her phone, you're gonna look all around.

560
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace and let me go this

561
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: to Alan Lingle joining us, the editor at Deadline Detroit

562
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: and Online Daily. Alan, I wonder if where her body

563
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: was found is a secondary or even tertiary crime scene.

564
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: In other words, was she killed somewhere else then dumped there,

565
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: because that's a lot of time to pass without her

566
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: body being found that close.

567
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 6: Although I will say, having worked on the Child Levy

568
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 6: case when I was at the Washington Post, her body

569
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 6: was found at Rock Creek Bark. It wasn't till a

570
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 6: year later a guy was taking a walk through the

571
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 6: woods with his dog where the body was discovered. I

572
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 6: think it's for some reason in the forest, it's not

573
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 6: hard to, you know, have a body hidden for that long,

574
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 6: and particularly in the cold where I don't know enough

575
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 6: about it to say, but canines going through the woods

576
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 6: or stuff like that. I don't know if it's harder

577
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 6: when it's cold out, when the scent isn't the aroma

578
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 6: isn't out there, but I who knows, it's hard to say.

579
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm that's a good question, Alan Langle. When were ca

580
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: nines brought out right?

581
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 6: That? Yeah, that is a good question. I mean, you

582
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 6: would think that's that standard procedure usually there's a search team.

583
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 6: A lot of times it's part of the community, part

584
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 6: of the police. But I can tell you in Chandra

585
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 6: Levy case, they sent out dozens and dozens of police

586
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 6: officers and cadets looking for the looking for the body,

587
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 6: and they did not find it. Could it have been moved.

588
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 6: It's very possible, and I think that was one of

589
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 6: the thoughts maybe with Chandra Levy, that maybe her or

590
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 6: she was killed somewhere else and then her body was

591
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 6: dumped there. I guess we don't know at this point.

592
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 6: I mean, it's interesting the theories by police. They seem

593
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 6: to have some pretty specific theories as to what happened

594
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 6: the scenario. So it makes me think somebody's cooperating. Somebody,

595
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 6: whether it's the actual people involved or somebody else, has

596
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 6: been cooperating in this.

597
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: We don't know when canines were brought out to the scene,

598
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: but they did not hit on Rebecca's body, which is

599
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: leading to a lot of speculation she was killed in

600
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: one place, the dog searched, and then her body was

601
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: dump Then we begin hearing stories about Rebecca, heavily pregnant,

602
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: getting into a black vehicle with tinted windows at midnight

603
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: now remember the last time she was seeing She's with

604
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: her bio mom running errands and she's got two thousand

605
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: dollars with her. It's a family gift to prepare for

606
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: the baby. Now listen to this.

607
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 15: Rebecca's fiance, Richard lee Fulor, is trying to get in

608
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 15: touch with Rebecca, but she is not answering or replying

609
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 15: to text. Knowing Rebecca has been shopping with her biological mother,

610
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 15: the Lura calls King Bartholomew, who says Rebecca got into

611
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 15: a black colored sedan with tinted windows just before midnight

612
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 15: and left. The Lura reports Rebecca missing with the Wexford

613
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 15: County Sheriff's Office.

614
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: Dave Mac, I'm understanding that the fiance got that information

615
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: from Rebecca's bio mom, who was the last one known

616
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: to be with her exactly.

617
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: He knew that Rebecca had been with her bio mom

618
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 4: shopping earlier that day. When he couldn't get her, he

619
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 4: called Bartholomew, who told him this story about the getting

620
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 4: in a car, a dark vehicle.

621
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: But isn't it true, Dave Mac. The bio mom has

622
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: an alibi of sorts. Listen, she gave me.

623
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 11: My meds at about eight forty. I don't remember a lot,

624
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 11: as I just said, but she was there when I

625
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 11: went to bed, and she was also there when I

626
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 11: woke up the next day. I know that she never

627
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 11: goes out on about when I'm sleeping, just because she

628
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 11: doesn't like to drive that night.

629
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Randolph Rice, that's no alibi. The son

630
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: of the bio mom says he took Med's at eight

631
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: forty and didn't see his mom again until the next morning.

632
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: That's no alibi for the night Rebecca died.

633
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 9: You're exactly right, Nancy, it's no alibi, but at least

634
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 9: establishes it somewhere on an eight forty that she's accountable,

635
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 9: and sometime the next morning she's accountable. The question is

636
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 9: going to become where was she between eight forty pm

637
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 9: and that next morning?

638
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: Out of the blue, a surprise twist listened to Joanna Carey,

639
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: the Wexford County Prosecutor.

640
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 5: This is the case of premeditated torture and murder.

641
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 12: These two individuals created a plan conductive research.

642
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 13: As for our follow you brought Rebecca to their home.

643
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: They forced her into another vehicle and took her into

644
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: the woods, where they stabbed her, forced her to lie

645
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: on the ground while they cut her baby out, and

646
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: ultimately caused her death. There's been a lot of speculation

647
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: about potential motive. Of course, the state never has to

648
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: prove motive in a case like this or any case.

649
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: But to Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, apparently prosecutors

650
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: are speculating about a motive. What is it?

651
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 4: It is that the Barthel Bradley that they had failed

652
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 4: at conceiving a child, that she had had multiple miscarriages,

653
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 4: and that she still wanted to have a baby talking

654
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 4: about Courtney Bartholome you here, and that they had not

655
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 4: been able to do that.

656
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: You know, you really can't make that up, but believe

657
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: it or not, there have been other cases similar to

658
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: this with the same mudive and I'm referring specifically to

659
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: the case of Bobby ja Stint.

660
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 16: The woman behind me is one of the most hated

661
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 16: people in Missouri. This is Lisa Montgomery and in twenty

662
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 16: twenty one, she was actually the first woman to be

663
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 16: executed by the US government in nearly seventy years because

664
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 16: she did something horrifically depraved. In two thousand and four,

665
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 16: Lisa drove to Missouri to meet Bobby Joe Stinnett, who

666
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 16: was thirty eight weeks pregnant at the time.

667
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: That is from rate Review on TikTok, and she's rought

668
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery cut the baby out of the victim. Bobby

669
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: Joe's Stennett, who was eight months pregnant, took the baby

670
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: and the baby lived. The baby girl is now a

671
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: teenager living with her father. Alan Lngle joining us from

672
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: Deadline Detroit. Alan, these two are under arrest right now.

673
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: Do you believe that there are any other parties involved

674
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: in the murder of Rebecca and you have reason to

675
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: believe that the baby is no longer alive?

676
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 6: Explain well, I think the Attorney General Dania Essel here

677
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 6: in Michigan has put out a press release. She's working

678
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 6: with the county prosecutor, and she's put out a press

679
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 6: release saying that not only the mother is dead, but

680
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 6: the baby is dead. They seem to have a scenario

681
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 6: of what happened, what transpired, which tells me somebody is

682
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 6: cooperating and helping out because there's no I doubt there's

683
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 6: any video there in the National Forest there, somebody has

684
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 6: sort of laid out a scenario where they're able to

685
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 6: press charges and say what happened? So does somebody else

686
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 6: know about it? There's a very good possibility that somebody

687
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 6: else has been cooperating to sort of lay out the scenario.

688
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing to me that other people could

689
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: stand by knowing this happened or was going to happen,

690
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: and did nothing to Joseph Scott Morgan. The baby, baby Ritchie,

691
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: has not been found. Ellie thinks the baby is dead.

692
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: Is there any way now we saw in the Montgomery

693
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: case the baby did live, Is there a way the

694
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: baby lived.

695
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a possibility the baby live, we just don't

696
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: know how long. But here's the thing, Nancy, I think

697
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: that all we have to do is go back to

698
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 3: what the state prosecutor is saying here, because they're kind

699
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: of definitively saying that this neither too. And we know

700
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 3: the mom all right is deceased, but both of them

701
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: are not alive. So where is she coming up with

702
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: that information? I'm wondering if there was a witness to

703
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 3: this event, or somebody had actually that was involved in

704
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 3: this had stated it to somebody else, maybe in their

705
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 3: immediate circle, maybe somebody within the family you know, because

706
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: they're banging on about, well, we've tried and we haven't

707
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 3: had a baby, and you know, this is something we

708
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 3: really wanted. Well, if they're banging on about that, maybe

709
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: they're saying, well we tried again. Oh yeah, we try

710
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 3: to butcher my biological daughter and extract maybe from her,

711
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: and so that didn't work either. Did they make that

712
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 3: statement to somebody? The question is? The question is is

713
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 3: where is this child? And also how long, if any anytime,

714
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 3: does child survive outside of the womb, and what's the

715
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: status of the baby right now?

716
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the

717
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: death of Rebecca or anything about her missing baby, please

718
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: call Wexford Sheriffs two three one seven seventy nine nine

719
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: two one six. The investigation is on going. And now

720
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: we remember an American hero, Corporal James Chapman, Johnston, p D.

721
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: South Carolina, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind

722
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: a grieving wife and four children to be raised without

723
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: their father. American hero Corporal James Chapman. Nancy Gray signing

724
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: off advice man