WEBVTT - Bring Back Independent Play & Break Up With Burnout w/ Lizzie Assa 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.119 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.480 in partnership with I Heart Radio. My oldest is fourteen, 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.040 my middle is in middle school. And we got home 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:10.720 from the beach the summer and I plopped down in 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:12.880 the play room and I was like, I feel like 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.480 we might need to turn the play room into something else, right, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:17.880 Like you guys are gonna kind of old, like you know, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:32.440 And all three of them were like no. Really was like, wow, Hi, everybody, 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.199 Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I have been trying to 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.319 get this guest for a very long time because she's 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.360 one of my most favorite Instagram follows. She is a 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.920 wealth of knowledge. Her name is Lizzie Asa and she 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.559 has an incredible Instagram account called the Workspace for Children, 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.920 and it has been instrumental in helping me with Albie 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.480 because she talks all about independent play and how independent 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.600 play really to avoiding parent burnout. We talk about close 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.039 ended toys versus open ended toys. If you don't know 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.399 what that is, that's okay, listen up, you'll figure it out. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.240 How to set up a playroom and how to get 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.440 your freaking life back, because guess what with independent play. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.759 Your kid is going to play by themselves. Doesn't everybody 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.200 want that? So let me tell you a little bit 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.800 about Lizzie. She's a parenting strategist and a play advocate. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.800 She is the founder of the workspace for Children. Go 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.440 follow that Instagram account right now. She's an inspiration source 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.839 of living a play based life with kids. Lizzie helps 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.039 parents trade in exhausting days filled with packed schedules and 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.640 entertaining kids for days filled with independent play. Lizzie also 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.080 offers play tips and resources to parents and teachers and 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.000 caregivers through her blog and social channels. And she's a 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.240 mom to three kids who are eight, eleven, and fourteen. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.080 I am so psyched to have you here. Welcome to 0:01:53.160 --> 0:02:03.080 Katie's crib Lizzie. Okay, we're all sinked up and you're 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.480 not going to hear them right Good morning, everybody. Welcome 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.639 to Katie's crib with Lizzie. I mean, as you can 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.639 hear from my microphone. It's really early in l a 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.560 and my son is not yet off to preschool, so 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:26.880 good bye. Rest assured. This is happening all over the 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.200 world right now, and everyone's houses. I mean, it's crazy. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.000 So first and foremost, I want you to tell us 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.560 about your children at their ages, and then also tell 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.840 us a little bit about your background and why you're 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:50.200 so knowledgeable about independent play and toddlers and siblings. Tell 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:54.120 me it all alright, totally. So before I had kids, 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.720 I taught nursery school in New York City. I went 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.160 to the Bank Street School of Education, which is just 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.800 the most progress a beautiful place to learn about becoming 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.160 a teacher and an educator. And while I was there, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.760 I did my internship at the best little school in 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.880 downtown Manhattan. And it was really there where I formed 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:20.160 this love and appreciation for letting kids play and just 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.800 be who they are instead of structuring every last move, 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.440 telling them what to think, where to do it, and 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.799 you know, all the things. And so then I had 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.720 my own kids. I have three kids. So my oldest, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.840 Nate is fourteen, and he just started high school this week. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:41.560 Yeah that's insane. And Ruby is eleven and Sloan is eight. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.840 And Ruby just went to sleep away camp this summer 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.240 on like a real camping trip, like in the woods 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.800 for two weeks. She did. Not only are you so 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.920 well studied and practiced in the toddler world, which is 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.400 one of the world I'm currently in. But because your 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:03.040 children are older, I'm able to see all the work 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.480 that I'm doing sort of payoff through you, because it 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.280 really looks like and we all know Instagram is truth, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.240 it's not, but it looks like your children are very independent. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.000 They are and very self assured in their decisions and 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.640 their choices, and they're respectful of their own wants and needs, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.679 but also your own wants and needs. And it's really 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.919 cool that you're so far ahead of me. I have 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.960 a four year almost four year old and a ten 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.440 month old, and my god, like, parenting in the way 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.640 that you are speaking about and practiced when you were 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.720 a teacher is so hard. Like yesterday I was at 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.000 his nursery school and we've been dealing a lot with 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.039 hitting and things like that, and I was like, oh, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.440 I get it. Like in the fifties whatever, when someone 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.560 would just be like, oh, no, I'm just locking you 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.320 in your room or whatever it was, I'm like, that's 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:58.080 the easier option. This is hard, like like like working 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.240 through it, and what are you really trying to tell me? 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.480 Are you frustrated? I think you maybe? Are you hung? 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.120 You know you didn't have a nap whatever it is. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:10.640 But it's like, that's exhausting. It's so exhausting. But like 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.200 you said, it's front loading and it will pay you 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.720 back so much as they grow you can't even imagine. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.839 And that doesn't mean they stopped doing the middle school 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.200 version of hitting or whatever it is, but it does 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:29.280 mean that those conversations are so much faster, easier, and 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.359 you can get right to the point because they're already 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.560 speaking out language. Ah, that's such a relief. Tell us 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.080 about Workspace for Children. What is it and how did 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.160 you start it? So? Now, the Workspace for Children is 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:47.320 an online platform and Instagram where I teach parents and 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:53.640 educators how to really embrace play to actually end parental burnout. 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.200 I want people to learn that they don't have to 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.600 structure every second of their today and burn themselves out. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.320 And that exactly what you were just saying, Like, if 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.159 you can put in that little bit of work in 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.640 the beginning, it's going to pay you back so much 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.239 in the end. The Workspace for Children, however, started when 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.960 my youngest was one and I wanted to, you know, 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:19.960 take her to like a mommy and me class. But 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.400 I realized that every class I took her to, it 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.159 was highly structured. There was a lot of you get 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.360 what you get and you don't get upset type of language. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.919 And I really couldn't find a program for her that 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.120 felt aligned with our values, and so I made one. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.520 And so I in my basement, I set up this 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.840 parenting and play studio where parents and caregivers would come 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.000 and we would do open ended art and I would 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.320 model the appropriate language and just kind of show people 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.000 that if you honor that your child inherently knows how 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.160 to play and you don't tell them what to do, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.840 they actually will figure it out. And so that's how 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.240 the Workspace for Children was born. That's even that's how 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.960 I started my blog on my Instagram. Wow, those lucky 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.520 mamas and caregivers that got to hang out in your basement, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.680 it was so much fun. I made some of my 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.080 best friends there. Ah. I love it for all of 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.520 you listening. I mean, it really just takes the pressure 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.240 off in Albi's room. The relief I feel when I 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.840 just get to sit back and let him take the 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.320 lead and have there be no structure or no plans 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.800 and I just sit back and watch, you know, or 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.960 partake if he wants me to, but I'm not on 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.040 my phone or anything like that, And even just fifteen 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:41.560 minutes is so honestly relaxing and fulfilling, and also the 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.000 relief that I feel, especially as I'm getting into this 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.520 four year old age where I'm getting just so many 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.160 texts and emails as we're opening up from the pandemic 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:50.680 of like, well does he want to do soccer? Well? 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.080 Does he want to do karate? Well? Does he want 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.640 to do this? Isn't to that? And I'm like, you know, honestly, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.480 we'll do one thing a week, but it's big, and 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.520 he's exhausted that he's even nursery school. These are the 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.640 years we get to be home and he has a 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.000 ten month old baby sister that we're all getting to know, 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.840 and I'm just trying to take the pressure off myself 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.680 of like, I don't need to spend my days in 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:14.960 l a traffic, like driving a four year old to 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.880 like a shipload of places. That's right, but most people 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.200 think that being a good parent means signing them up 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.600 for like every enrichment and every last thing. But what's 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.520 happening is, and there are so many studies even now 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.240 if you speak to like college professors and high school 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.040 teachers where kids come in and if you're not telling 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.840 them what to do and what instruments to hold and 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.240 where to press, they have this like blank look on 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.760 their face. They don't know how to take the first step. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.439 Since they were four years old, people were saying, on 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.600 Monday we do soccer and karate and on Tuesday we 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.880 have voice and I'm you know, and it's like, when 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.120 are they ever home? And then they're sitting in the 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.040 back of the car and they're winding and their board 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.080 and and you're like crazy burned out. So you toss 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.400 them a tablet or your phone because you need a second, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.200 as you should be the second to think. So you 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.160 can back all that up to those early years. So 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.120 tell me what exactly for those listen, what is independent play? 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.400 Why is it important? So? Independent play is when your 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.320 child is playing by themselves, directing their own play. They 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.760 decided what to play and how to play it. Independent 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.320 plays when your child is their most authentic self. Independent 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.760 play doesn't mean sitting and playing quietly with blocks or dolls. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.640 I think there's a big thing there that people see 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.160 on Instagram or in the nursery school classroom that like 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.120 their child's not playing independently if they're not quietly you know, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.240 building a black building or drawing a pretty picture. Independent 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.560 play can also be in like bouncing a ball in 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.120 the backyard against the garage and getting in a rhythm 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.640 with yourself. Independent play is just flow with yourself. Not 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.880 only is independent play so important for your child for 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.760 them to learn who they are, what their interests are, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.520 what their interests are, not what you're what you think 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.800 their interests are supposed to be. It's also so important 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.280 for the family system. When you can set up the 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:17.240 habit of independent play, then that means caregiver parent gets 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.280 time back for themselves to take care of their own needs. 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.360 And then that's when it becomes the difference of being 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.600 half in all the time or all in for a 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.800 short time. All in for a short time is a 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.920 billion times more valuable than half in all the time. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.680 How do we teach kids independent play? You can start small, right, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.240 You can start so small, and you can start anywhere 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.200 you are. You can have a kid who watches TV 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.920 all day every day and still start where you are. 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.680 Anyone can do this anywhere. And the trick really here 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.520 is is learning about who your kid is. Literally when 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.559 you're in the car with them and they're staring out 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.800 the window and they get excited out something, that's a clue. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.320 The kid who loves trucks and every time they see 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.960 a truck drive by, they clap and get too excited, 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.320 that's a clue. Literally, watch your child for a few minutes, 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:14.880 even if you're not with them, sit down and think 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.640 about your kid, Like set a timer for five minutes, 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.959 and just think about who your kid really is, the good, 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.520 the bad, all of it. What lights them up. When 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.319 you can hone in on one or two of those things. 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:31.079 You can set up the most simple environment, and I'm 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.440 not talking about a fancy playroom. I'm talking about any 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.200 little blanket on the floor in any part of your home, 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.439 with just some things that reflect their interests. That's when 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.800 you're going to start to see natural, independent play. And 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.200 it's so simple that I think people miss that step 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.160 and they start to think independent play means you buy 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.160 all the wooden toys and you set up these fancy crafts, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.640 and then their kids don't play with it, and then 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.480 you're annoyed and then they're like confused, like what did 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.040 they do? And then they just want to watch TV 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.679 because TV is so much easier on everyone, you know, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.160 and then that cycle continues. So if you can just 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.480 really find the little things that light your kids up, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.880 and it can even be like just in that week. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.120 It doesn't have to be some grand thing that you're like, 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.560 my kid loves, you know, whatever it is. I mean, literally, 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.440 what did they talk NonStop about this week? It could 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.560 be pop patrol and and that just means grab a 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.080 handful of those pop patrol choice, put him down on 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.000 a blanket, put a few magnetic tiles next to it. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.440 That's when you're going to spark kindly. How we started 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.840 was like the tip I would lie like I would 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.400 just as soon as I would set him up with something, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.080 I would just be like, oh, I have to go 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.959 to the bathroom, and I would just go to the bathroom, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.880 you know, for five minutes and ten minutes than fifteen minutes. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.840 I mean. The great news about kids, they kind of 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.200 have no concept of time, you know, like it is 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.120 what you say it is. There's something actually really amazing 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.760 that you do there that's making a kind of play happen, 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.280 and that is that you're setting a limit. So for 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.680 you you're comfortable setting a limit saying I'm going to 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.920 the bathroom because you feel comfortable saying I have to 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.640 go to the bathroom, and like if they're like, now, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.600 you know you can, but I'm going to the bathroom 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.280 because like humans go to the bathroom. When people can 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.840 set a limit that they can stand by, then your 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.040 kid can stand by it. And when you can add 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.520 those limits to play and quiet time, it's such a 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.800 game changer. What would you say if you weren't going 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.040 to use the party? So I teach a whole course 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.200 on how to teach your child and your whole family 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.600 to get in this rhythm of independent play, even with 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.840 really little kids, like kids that are too and are 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.200 dropping the nap. I would say, like, you know, something 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.280 that older children do is called quiet time, and it's 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.200 a time when you get to play with your things 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.480 without anyone interrupting you. You don't have to share with 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.800 your sister, you don't have to listen to my ideas. 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.120 Quiet time means like this is for you. And then 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:58.959 you're also going to say, like, this is also my 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.679 quiet time. You know, you really like build that up 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.320 as like a grown up important thing, because it is. 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.280 It is and then when you can pair that with 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.199 setting limits around that right, and then the course we 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.400 talk about like why do you even want quiet time? 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.720 Like why not just be like fine, like during quiet 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.679 time you can watch screens because no judgment. For some people, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.080 that's what they do and that works, and that's totally fine. 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.560 If you are someone though, who wants your child to 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.560 play independently during quiet time. I help people look all 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.480 the way into the future, what kind of personality traits 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.880 do you want to help your child develop when they 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.400 are in middle school or in high school, because those 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.280 are things that are going to learn during independent play. 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.640 And so when you can remember like the reasons why 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.760 you really want your child to have these play skills. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.280 In my course, I have a whole workbook where we 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.760 like work through that so that you can get super 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.360 clear on why you're doing it. The truth of the 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.240 matter is you can have any system, any bride, any anything. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.640 Your child is going to push back on you. They're 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.200 supposed to. And we're so tired that like we want 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.120 to just be like, oh, forget it, fine, don't do it. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.760 But if you have that like clear list of like nope, 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.240 I'm setting this limit, like you know, same thing. A 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.480 lot of parents feel guilty saying, you know, go play. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.560 I'm doing my thing, you do yours, And I totally 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:16.920 get that. But when you look at it out through 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.040 this other lens of that, you're like doing them such 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.440 an amazing service by setting these limits and boundaries around 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.320 this time where they get to figure out their true 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.640 authentic self. Oh, this is such a relief. And guys like, yeah, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.160 let's change the perspective when they used to say, go 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.040 outside and play. I don't want to see you till dinner. 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.840 I mean, we're doing it in a little bit of 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.720 a different way, but it's the same thing, is that 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.760 you're doing a good thing. You are not expected as 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.440 a parent to play with your child all day long 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.120 and survive. What a nightmare. And if you do that, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.720 it's a disaster. I don't play with my kids. They 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.840 never have. I don't. I'm a play expert, and I 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.400 don't play with my kids. Guys, you heard it here first. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.320 I have goose bumps like sponges sponges at a bucket 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.600 of water, have fun like you know, like it's oh, yeah, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.680 there's ranges if you know of what things cost and 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.400 all of that, But you set your kid up and 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.720 then you go away. Well, I mean, and that's part 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.560 of like having successful independent play is like using that 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.000 environment to set the limits for you or to spark 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.360 ideas for you, so that you're not part of that 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.280 and they come to it on their own terms. We 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.040 as adults, we'll see like a project on Pinterest, say 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.400 with soaphie water and a bucket, but like we'll start 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.000 getting all fancy and adding food, coloring and slime and 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.640 like this, and like a who has time for that? 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.440 Because I don't be Then your kid comes to it 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.240 and they're like and then you're annoyed, and then you're 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.360 forcing them to do it, and then you're not doing 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.000 it again. The other green thing about independent play is 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.200 that now we're a little bit in a rhythm where 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.880 he kind of does it at the same times every day, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.600 and now it's become almost like a self regulation for 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.560 both of you, for both of us, even for example us. 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.200 You know, my schedules a little bit different today because 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.320 we're doing this call, like I said, early, so it 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.040 kind of interrupted. He likes to do a good twenty 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.399 thirty minutes of independently before he goes to school, Like 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.359 he wakes up, has breakfast, plays around with me and 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.359 his sister, and then he likes to really have some 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.240 alone time with with with his things before he goes 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.359 to school. I almost feel like it's his body knowing 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.679 that he's about to go to school and interact and 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.560 it's really intense. And then he does it when he 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.200 gets home from school and he's just starting to drop 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.000 his nap, which is crazy. I know people are like, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.760 he still naps, and I guess he does. Oh my god. 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.600 But now we're doing this quiet time where for the 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.280 first time over this weekend, I said, Okay, if you 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.880 don't want to sleep, you're in your room. Your door 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.600 is shown. Is that rhythm of nap time? Did you 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.640 do quiet time? Oh yeah, we still do quiet time 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.040 and middle school, I literally nap every Saturday and Sunday. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.399 I'm going to too. It is non negoci all like 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.119 quiet time happens and I nap and my husband like 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:14.359 watches football or whatever. And that is like hard line. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.639 You said you don't play with your kids, But I 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.600 love this that you advised on the Balanced Parent podcast 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.679 that a parent should play with their children in a 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.240 way that is appealing to them. Yeah, it's cool to 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.280 be the caregiver where this is the type of play 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.560 I like, right, I mean, that's sort of so many 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.040 purposes too. For me, I happen to be very artsy. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.600 I love art. I love to just like you know, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.600 rub a marker around on the paper, and to me 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.600 like that is when I'm the most present and like 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.280 listening to my kids the most. So a lot of times. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.680 You know, if you follow Instagram, you'll see after school 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.959 I usually set up like a snack and really simple 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.240 art on the table. That's how I can say to 0:18:58.280 --> 0:18:59.920 my kids, like, hey, I was thinking about you and 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.600 we're gone. I'm here to connect if you want to. Also, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.760 this took me five minutes, so like if you don't 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.080 or you're like, hey, I'm going to hang with my 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.360 buddies or whatever, that's great too. I literally don't care, 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.520 and I'll probably live it there for the whole weekend anyway. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.439 But it's just a way for me to connect with them. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.040 Whereas like for my husband, he loves building with blocks, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.399 so he'll hang out on the playroom floor. Was slowan 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.600 and like listen to her ideas and help her create 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.720 a structure for him. That's really satisfying. Neither of us 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.359 sit there and play Unicorn because like that's what no, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.320 And it's like not, I don't know. I just I 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.960 don't think that teaches my kids how to like be 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.240 a good friend or a good human. You know, they 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.760 could do that. That's amazing for them to do that 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.000 with themselves, or to find a friend who loves to 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.600 do that. For me to authentically sit there scroll my 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.359 phone with one hand and like half make a Barbie move. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.800 That's not actually connecting with my kid and it's not 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.639 going to solve any issues. Yeah, I found out this weekend. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.040 Like I've been doing a lot of weekends so because 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.880 my husband started this pretzel business and so he's gone 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.880 a lot. So I'm just like I'm the same. I 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:14.600 fucking hate playing. But Albie and I have really taken 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.520 to Vera goes down at nine and then he and 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.400 I have time together before hopefully by eleven ish when 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.000 she wakes up. I like to at least have some 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.280 sort of playdate where we go to a friend's house 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.040 outside or they come over to our house outside. In 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.200 that time, he and I have started just baking together 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.240 because I'm like, this is killing two birds with one stone, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.080 where he's playing with the measuring cups in the water, 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.720 and he loves to be in the sink and cleaning 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.199 all the dishes and stuff. But also it makes me 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.040 feel good because I love being a host or going 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.840 to someone's house and bringing something because I feel like 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.480 it's a nice thing to do, and you're passing on 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.480 like your values in a way that feels good to him. Oh, 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.040 I did something, I'm saying, but you did something that 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.439 felt like good to you. Yes, it's great to me. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.320 I felt right. If you go back and break this down, right, 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.320 it's like developmentally appropriate for him because he's splashing and 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.639 pouring and filling, right, and he's four years old and 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.960 that's what kids love to do. He's also doing like 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.439 an assigned task, that is, he's capable of doing like 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.000 It probably wouldn't be fun for him if you were like, hey, 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.959 sound out these words in the cookbook. You know that 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.800 he would be like, no, like, and then you would 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.639 get annoyed, and then he would get and like the 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.760