Speaker 1: You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Buck Brief. On this episode, our friend Tom Homan is
Speaker 1: with us. He was acting Director of Immigration and Custom
Speaker 1: Enforcement under President Donald Trump. He now is the CEO
Speaker 1: of Border nine to one one UH, doing border education
Speaker 1: programs all across the country. I think it's really the
Speaker 1: most important policy issue right now that faces us. Tom.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here, appreciate your expertise.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So just put it into context. People say things like
Speaker 1: it's the worst it has been at the border. Look
Speaker 1: at the numbers, Look at what's happening in cities because
Speaker 1: of it. When you see this, how do you compare
Speaker 1: what's going on under Biden to what we would expect
Speaker 1: under a more standard presidency when it comes to illegal immgris.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like night and day. I mean, we handed
Speaker 2: this administration the most secure border in my lifetime. That's
Speaker 2: just not my opinion. It's based on data. Anybody can
Speaker 2: go to CBP dot government. Look at the numbers. The
Speaker 2: Trump administration had illegrammigration had a forty five year low
Speaker 2: illegrammagration is down eighty three to ninety percent, depending on
Speaker 2: what time frame you're looking at. And this administration came
Speaker 2: in the first president in the history of this nation,
Speaker 2: Joe Biden an unsecured border. I mean I went for
Speaker 2: six presidents talking Ronald Reagan, every president, even though obamatics
Speaker 2: some steps to secure the border, no one did more
Speaker 2: than President Trump. What he did was unprecedented. But Joe
Speaker 2: Biden came in unsecured border. So it's night and day,
Speaker 2: and now we got historic. We went the most secure
Speaker 2: border in my lifetime to historic never seen before numbers.
Speaker 2: Three years in a row, he keeps breaking his own record.
Speaker 2: First year, historic record under Joe Biden. Jack year, he
Speaker 2: broke his own historic record. Third year, he broke both
Speaker 2: of those records. So it went and went from the
Speaker 2: most secure to the most unsecure seeing in my life.
Speaker 1: What did they do to make it that way? What
Speaker 1: are the decisions the Biden administration took so that we
Speaker 1: would have, as you said, historically, the most unsecured border,
Speaker 1: really in our history.
Speaker 2: You abolished every policy that we created. They gave us
Speaker 2: a more secure border. They remain in Mexico program was
Speaker 2: a game changer. That was the biggest game changer and
Speaker 2: a Trump administration because people can still claim asylum not
Speaker 2: to way to Mexico and not be released the United
Speaker 2: States until there hearing. And here why that made it
Speaker 2: such a difference. Once they realized they weren't going to
Speaker 2: be released in the United States, either don't shopping court
Speaker 2: or show up in court get ordered moved in that way.
Speaker 2: When they knew they weren't being released in the United States,
Speaker 2: they stopped coming. I mean thousands of people stopped coming.
Speaker 2: It stops, you know, selling everything they own, everything they have,
Speaker 2: every dollar they got to the cartels to come to
Speaker 2: the United States. A lot of people get sexually assault,
Speaker 2: they get a very trustorous journey. They stop coming because
Speaker 2: even they realize they don't really qualify for asylum, they
Speaker 2: just want to come, make an asylum claim, get released
Speaker 2: in the United States and not showpen court. And the
Speaker 2: ones that do shortpen court nine out of ten fail.
Speaker 2: They won't get really from US. Course, so remain in
Speaker 2: Mexico is a game changer. They stopped coming. The other
Speaker 2: game changer a Thursday country agreements. If you're really escape
Speaker 2: and fear from let's say, Gualate Tomala and you get
Speaker 2: to Mexico, have you not escaped there for a persecution
Speaker 2: from your home government because you're not there anymore, so
Speaker 2: should claim asideum in Mexico. Third, is a Mexican Mexican
Speaker 2: military in the northern southern border. Mexico's actually enforcing their
Speaker 2: own immigration laws. Trump demanded that, and those same things.
Speaker 2: The Biden administration could turn all three things on tomorrow
Speaker 2: if they want to secure the border. They choose not to,
Speaker 2: is it at all?
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of things here. One,
Speaker 1: aren't these so called the asylum seekers ineligible? You mentioned this,
Speaker 1: but by passing through Mexico and not trying to get
Speaker 1: asylum there if I'm fleeing first of all, as you
Speaker 1: know better than anyone tell there. They're coming from Pakistan,
Speaker 1: they're coming from West Africa, they're coming from Southeast Asia,
Speaker 1: all over the world. Right, But if you're fleeing violence
Speaker 1: and you get to Mexico, why not seek asylum in
Speaker 1: Mexico first? And doesn't that then make it so that
Speaker 1: they're ineligible once they get to the States. What is
Speaker 1: the status of that?
Speaker 2: Well, you're exactly right, they should be claiming assignment first
Speaker 2: free country they come in, and that's one of the
Speaker 2: things we did, and even the Biden administration was talking
Speaker 2: about doing it. So yeah, you know, it's clear if
Speaker 2: you're really persecution, it's just everybody knows when you claim
Speaker 2: asylum that means you're escaping fear and persecution from your
Speaker 2: home government because your race, religion, political affiliation, or participation
Speaker 2: in a specific social group. For instance, if you're in
Speaker 2: one of the Middle East countries and you're gay, that
Speaker 2: that you can be persecuted for that. So so the
Speaker 2: bottom line is we call them asylum seekers, but people
Speaker 2: need to understand based on ten years of court data,
Speaker 2: ten years of immigration court data, nearly nine out of
Speaker 2: ten people claim asylum at our border will never get
Speaker 2: rid of need you US. Of course, they either don't
Speaker 2: show up, they don't qualify, they'll get order to removal.
Speaker 2: So if that's the thing we did in Trump administration,
Speaker 2: if you're really escaping fear of persecution and Indonesia and
Speaker 2: you pass through four different countries to get here, you
Speaker 2: should have reclaim asylum the first three country you came to.
Speaker 2: You're exactly right.
Speaker 1: Now under the issue of what happens when they don't
Speaker 1: show up in court, right, I mean that's you mentioned
Speaker 1: this most of them, don't we know that? Is there
Speaker 1: any effort to track them down and deport than them?
Speaker 1: Because once you don't show up to your asylum hearing,
Speaker 1: aren't you deportable.
Speaker 2: As soon as you get order removed? Yeah, if you
Speaker 2: don't show up, you'll get to order and absent you
Speaker 2: it judges. Okay, he's not. Here's I don't order and
Speaker 2: remove the upsent you. Here's the problem this administration. Even
Speaker 2: though all Hondro and my orchids will sit in front
Speaker 2: of Congress and say under all, for those who don't
Speaker 2: qualify for asylum, they'll be immediately removed. No, not, Ice
Speaker 2: isn't even looking for him. I got a lot of
Speaker 2: friends in icy Aca used to run they're not even
Speaker 2: looking for him to the Department, and Homeland Security told
Speaker 2: them not to look form because remember second term of
Speaker 2: my orches is on record and the ICE priorities. It's
Speaker 2: in writing telling Nice that being in the country illegally
Speaker 2: on its own isn't enough for ICE to target anybody
Speaker 2: for rest. They have to be convicted of a serious
Speaker 2: aggravated felony or they got to be a national security threat.
Speaker 2: So even though they should be rounded up and removed,
Speaker 2: no one's looking for him under this administration. But I
Speaker 2: promise you this, under an extra trunk administration, they'll be
Speaker 2: located deported as required by the courts.
Speaker 1: Let's I want to talk about deportation and the logistics
Speaker 1: and the possibilities on that tom But hold up for
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Speaker 1: how many people could Trump coming into office in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five actually deport? You think in year one and
Speaker 1: what would those resources and what would that program look like?
Speaker 2: Well, how many can we deport? It depends on a
Speaker 2: number of factors. Number one, what other resources? How many
Speaker 2: officers do we have? And we'll bring officers from other
Speaker 2: agencies to assist. Also, when we have the detention beds,
Speaker 2: I mean, Congress is won't have to give us massive
Speaker 2: amounts of detention beds. And right now Ice is captured
Speaker 2: thirty four thousand, that's nowhere is near the number of
Speaker 2: detention beds we would need. So and to rest somebody,
Speaker 2: you guide detained them temporarily to get travel documents. Well,
Speaker 2: people don't understand, we just can't put a plane full
Speaker 2: of Ethiopians on an airplane has been order to remove
Speaker 2: and just take Ethiopia. There's a process we have to
Speaker 2: go through. If you have to contact the country, they
Speaker 2: have to agree to accept them. Then they got to
Speaker 2: send you travel documents and that takes that takes, you know,
Speaker 2: several days to several weeks. So we need detention assets.
Speaker 2: So how many tension beds won't have So it all
Speaker 2: depends on the resources were given. But I tell you
Speaker 2: this one thing, one thing I'm going to push in
Speaker 2: the next next administration, is this either legislation or executive
Speaker 2: order that clearly says this, if have to do process,
Speaker 2: you've been removed, order removed by federal judge, and you
Speaker 2: don't leave, you will never qualify for another immigration benefit
Speaker 2: in the rest of your life. A lot of people,
Speaker 2: if that was actually a law that was actually in effact,
Speaker 2: a lot of people would leave run the wrong. Let
Speaker 2: me tell you why. At the first things they do
Speaker 2: in the gear, a lot of them have US citizen kids.
Speaker 2: Those US citizen kids can petition for them. Someday. There's
Speaker 2: also going to be work authorization, work visas. There'll be
Speaker 2: all sorts of visa program if they can qualify for it,
Speaker 2: that come in lead. But if you did defy a
Speaker 2: court order and you and you say you're never going
Speaker 2: to qualify for work alterization, a visa, or any immigration
Speaker 2: benefit as long as you live, a lot of people
Speaker 2: will leave because those US citizen kids someday will petition
Speaker 2: for those parents. So I think that would have a
Speaker 2: big help when people are actually leaving, because right now
Speaker 2: there's no penalty. You don't leave. You hide out long enough,
Speaker 2: become a fugitive, and sooner or later we're gonna give
Speaker 2: you something. Sooner or later, we're gonna have an ambassy
Speaker 2: program or sooner like the four hundred and forty thousand
Speaker 2: kids you just came across the border under Biden, that's
Speaker 2: your next docka population because this country is shown over
Speaker 2: and over again, if you hide out long enough, we'll
Speaker 2: give you something. So that's got to end, and we
Speaker 2: got you.
Speaker 1: How do you stop it? I mean you said, you
Speaker 1: said that's got to end.
Speaker 2: Tom.
Speaker 1: How would you actually secure the border? How would you
Speaker 1: stop this?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I stepped on what you said.
Speaker 1: I said, how how would you actually stop this? How
Speaker 1: would you secure the border. If Trump brought you into
Speaker 1: a room and said, whatever resources you need, whatever personnel
Speaker 1: you want, whatever executive orders I have to sign, we're
Speaker 1: getting this thing under control and we're stopping the illegal flow.
Speaker 1: How do you do it.
Speaker 2: And catching release immediately, no one gets released, and you
Speaker 2: return them as fast as you can return. You sign
Speaker 2: a third safe country agreements that we alreays so we're affected.
Speaker 2: You do to remain in Mexico program, which we've proven
Speaker 2: that's affected. You continue building the wall, which we proved's effective.
Speaker 2: Where are they coming through right now where there's not
Speaker 2: a wall or they damage you will? Then we called
Speaker 2: mex from Mexico have to put military in the southern
Speaker 2: northern border. They have to enforce all immigration laws, Mexico
Speaker 2: law in Mexico to smuggle people, it's against the law
Speaker 2: of Mexico to trafficking women and children. It's against a
Speaker 2: law in mexicield for any national in any other country
Speaker 2: travel through Mexico with all the transit visa. So you know,
Speaker 2: they have to enforce our immigration law. Then finally, we
Speaker 2: have several executive orders like I just discussed, but we
Speaker 2: need to stop catching release right now. The whole world
Speaker 2: knows come to our border and you turn yourselves into
Speaker 2: orbitual agent. You're gonna be released in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get a free plane ticket to the city
Speaker 2: your choice. You're gonna get work alterization, you're gonna get
Speaker 2: a hotel room. You're gonna get three spurs a day,
Speaker 2: and medical attention. Who the hell wouldn't count. So that's
Speaker 2: where we need to stop and catching leads. Put the
Speaker 2: Trump policies back from place we're already proven their effective,
Speaker 2: and let us finish the job and hold other countries accountable. Mexico,
Speaker 2: if you don't step up, we'll take every dollar international
Speaker 2: aid away from you, and we'll tear the hell out
Speaker 2: of all your products coming through the port of entries.
Speaker 2: They didn't need us more than we need them. That's
Speaker 2: what President Trump did. I was in the overlaps when
Speaker 2: he called the three Central American countries and said that
Speaker 2: you're gonna pay in a third Safe country agreement, and
Speaker 2: if you don't, I'm pulling every dollar international aid away.
Speaker 2: Trump was breathed, what have we done in the past.
Speaker 2: I've told him, we give millions and millions of dollars
Speaker 2: to these countries. They can create opportunity zones so people
Speaker 2: don't have to leave their country. And when he asked
Speaker 2: me how that work, it doesn't work because money never
Speaker 2: gets worth supposed to get. Countries are corrupt, he says,
Speaker 2: w I'm you so different. I'm not going to give
Speaker 2: them a dollar. Matter of fact, I'll take money away.
Speaker 2: And it worked. The threat a loser International aid work.
Speaker 2: So that's what we got to do. Hold the country's
Speaker 2: account or or have some sort of consequence when they
Speaker 2: don't assist.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the cartel side of
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Speaker 1: your livelihood and your rights. Tom, how easy is it
Speaker 1: right now for the cartels to get whatever they want
Speaker 1: people drugs across the border. I mean, let's start with
Speaker 1: the narcotic side of this. I've got to assume that,
Speaker 1: given the the stresses on border patrol manpower, that there's
Speaker 1: more fentanyl and other opioids flowing across the border than
Speaker 1: maybe at any time in our history.
Speaker 2: Exactly right. It's out of coincidence in the three years
Speaker 2: of historic living migration that's overwhelmed and boarder job that
Speaker 2: we have historic fentanyl overdose US. If the cartels have
Speaker 2: have operational control or a southern border, think about that
Speaker 2: for a moment. The most powerful nation in the world
Speaker 2: doesn't have operational control of the border. Comical cartels in
Speaker 2: Mexico do, and they prove it every day. They decide
Speaker 2: what comes in, where it comes in, and what comes in.
Speaker 2: And I thought to several borderatrol the chiefs that say
Speaker 2: it they was coming through. One chief patrolly can use
Speaker 2: the term broken arrow. He says, I'm overwhelmed. I'm lucky
Speaker 2: if I'm catchuring ten percent. And here's what American people
Speaker 2: need to know. When you create a crisis this big,
Speaker 2: where millions of people are crossing. On the average, on
Speaker 2: an average day, seventy to ninety percent of agents are
Speaker 2: pulled off the line, off patrol to process, change diapers,
Speaker 2: make baby for them, make air programs whatever. At least
Speaker 2: thirty to ten percent of agents up the line patrol.
Speaker 2: This past year, there was over a dozen times an
Speaker 2: a go pass sector EuMA sector, our Passo sector where
Speaker 2: they pulled every single agent off the line. One hundred
Speaker 2: percent one under set patrols are pulled in the process.
Speaker 2: You don't think the criminal cartels had to feel there
Speaker 2: with that. When there's no enforcement, where there's only thirty
Speaker 2: or ten percent left, that's when they move the fatanyl.
Speaker 2: That's when they traffick the women and children. That's when
Speaker 2: they're going to move the criminals and the no suspected
Speaker 2: terrorists that don't want to turn the cell phone then
Speaker 2: don't want to be vetted. That's when it happens. The
Speaker 2: criminal cartels will push a large gip with two hundred
Speaker 2: people through one area, overwhelming what's left on the border
Speaker 2: borbetual agents and that's when they moved all the other
Speaker 2: bad things. And I testified two weeks ago in front
Speaker 2: of Congress, and you've got Democrats keep saying, well, most
Speaker 2: of the fatanyls smuggled through the port of entry. Wrong,
Speaker 2: most of the fatanyl seize that a port of entry.
Speaker 2: Because every vehicle start off, every drivers spoken to, they
Speaker 2: got a CBP targeting system intelligence database which I can't
Speaker 2: tell you what's in it, but when you push that
Speaker 2: number license plate number in they may tell you this
Speaker 2: real cre You might want a second during looks that closer.
Speaker 2: But between a port of entry, when ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the ages are off the line, the criminal cart going
Speaker 2: to use the system less enforcement law enforcement options. That's
Speaker 2: between the port of entry, so that criminal cartels have
Speaker 2: control of our southern border. And that's just scared to
Speaker 2: hell out every March.
Speaker 1: Are you wondering how everyone's talking about Belize these days?
Speaker 1: Whoa boy? Belize is fantastic. It's fun. Imagine visiting a
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Speaker 1: and you can enjoy a rainforest in white sand beaches
Speaker 1: in the same day. Belize is fun because you can
Speaker 1: float through caves, down a jungle river, climb an ancient
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Speaker 1: Just thank you for your Tom and tell us today.
Speaker 1: Where where can people go to learn more about border
Speaker 1: Border nine one one.
Speaker 2: Go to www dot Border ninety one one dot com
Speaker 2: and look at what we're doing. I got I have
Speaker 2: the best team of border security experts in the world.
Speaker 2: Why because most of us created that secure border, the
Speaker 2: most secure border lifetime, and most of us has been
Speaker 2: over three decades doing border control work. So come take
Speaker 2: a look at the team. A great team. As a nonprofit,
Speaker 2: we're not looking to No one's looking to make any
Speaker 2: money at this, but we're looking for people to donate
Speaker 2: for operational expenses for this team's going to travel around
Speaker 2: to battleground states to talk to people that need to understand.
Speaker 2: No matter what your opinion is on illeg immigration, when
Speaker 2: you get to that voting booths, you need to vote
Speaker 2: for border security because of the fatanyl, because of the terrorism,
Speaker 2: because of the sex trafficking, all those other bad things
Speaker 2: that happen because of illegal immigration. So we're want to
Speaker 2: spend the next ten months of educating American people that
Speaker 2: border security matters and make sure that's in your decision
Speaker 2: makers on election day.
Speaker 1: Tom thanks for your service to the country and your
Speaker 1: time today.
Speaker 2: Good to see you, Thanks, thanks for having me