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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People that did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're weekly reminder that sometimes Margaret and Mia really like

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Speaker 2: talking about complicated things. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy And

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Speaker 2: as implied in the tagline of the show, which that tagline,

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Speaker 2: We've been using it the whole time and it never

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Speaker 2: made any sense until now. But the guest today, despite

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Speaker 2: being in the tagline every single week, is Mia Wong.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Hello, glatic can finally covet and make the tagline work.

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Speaker 2: I know it's been like we've every now and then

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Speaker 2: you're here and everything makes sense. It doesn't make sense

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Speaker 2: when you're not here, Mia, But who's also here, and

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Speaker 2: it also wouldn't make sense without is Sophie Hi. Sophie Hi.

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Speaker 1: I think it could still make sense without me here.

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Speaker 2: And not as much I mean, no offense to the

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Speaker 2: sometimes other producers from the show or in Sophie's spot,

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Speaker 2: and those episodes are also good. Yes, the only person

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Speaker 2: who can't be replaced is me. Probably true, I'd be pretty.

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Speaker 1: Rentraw has entered the chat, so sorry mom. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then just like clabbers you with love.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's this fucking random Instagram video I

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Speaker 2: saw of like a like lion that greets its handler

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Speaker 2: by like jumping and tackling and bringing it to Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I'm like, it's so amazing. I want Rentroll

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Speaker 2: to do that to me. So cool, but also so scary.

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Speaker 2: I know, I don't want a lion to do it

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Speaker 2: to me. Could Yeah anyway. Our audio engineers Rory Hi,

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Speaker 2: Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Rory, and our theme musical was

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Speaker 2: written for Spyan Woman. And this is part two out

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Speaker 2: of four talking about the history of Korean anarchism as

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Speaker 2: eventually builds up to the Korean People's Association of Manchuria

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Speaker 2: and where we last left off, the people of Korea

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Speaker 2: had tried for big old peasant revolt that seemed really

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Speaker 2: cool and rebolt, by the way, is what happens when

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Speaker 2: you start saying rebellion and then switch it to a revolt.

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Speaker 2: Because you look at your script about halfway through.

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Speaker 1: It's about to be like, did we come up with

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Speaker 1: a new word because I'd like it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Yeah, it's a halfway between a revolt and

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Speaker 2: a rebellion. What's the difference. I don't know. They're probably synonyms.

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Speaker 1: I like it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And they all got slaughtered because it's.

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Speaker 2: Bad when people with fucking in the same way that

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight, you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: bring a regular gun to a machine gun fight.

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Speaker 3: Terrible idea.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Uh, maybe there's nowhere to go but up for them.

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Speaker 2: Just kidding. Japanese imperialism. In the immediate aftermath of this

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Speaker 2: war eighteen ninety five, you've got the short lived Korean Empire,

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Speaker 2: which was ostensibly independent for a while, it had close

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Speaker 2: ties with Russia. This is the aforementioned promise Russian imperialism section,

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Speaker 2: who didn't want the Japanese to take over, so that's

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Speaker 2: why they were doing their thing. Korea was like, we

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Speaker 2: better modernize. We're in trouble, especially our military. We should

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Speaker 2: modernize our military. Doesn't it seem like we should. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it seems like we should. But they're pretty

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Speaker 2: geographically fucked because they are just right in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the three huge imperial powers China, Japan, and Russia.

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Speaker 2: They're all right there. Just kidding. Only the United States

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Speaker 2: is capable period that to everyone that Japan colonized anyway.

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Speaker 2: Then Russia and Japan got into a pissing match and

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Speaker 2: Japan beat the shit out of Russia. And this changes

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Speaker 2: the course of history, and like leads in some ways.

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Speaker 2: The downfall of this are very least leads to the

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Speaker 2: revolution in nineteen oh five that doesn't work, but which

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Speaker 2: leads to the nineteen seventeen revolution it does work. Whatever.

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Speaker 2: As a result, Japan takes Korea as a protectorate state

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Speaker 2: in nineteen oh five. By nineteen oh seven, Japan just

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Speaker 2: dissolves Korea's military or starts too. And then it was

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Speaker 2: formally annexed as a colony in nineteen ten. And the

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Speaker 2: first resistance to this colonization were what get called the

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Speaker 2: righteous Armies, which is a good name, yeah, good pr Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like which side is the right side? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Probably the righteous ones, yeah yeah. On the other hand,

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Speaker 2: you can justify a lot when you call yourself a

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Speaker 2: righteous army.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 2: But I mean I haven't done a ton of research

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Speaker 2: on the righteous armies. Like overall, they're actually they're doing

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Speaker 2: pretty good. Well morally, militarily they're not doing good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they are someone who is fighting Japan

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Speaker 3: before nineteen forty one. Yeah, by definition, they're going to

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Speaker 3: be doing pretty badly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Before Like my granddad, a hobo from Iowa gets

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Speaker 2: into a funning offin you know, not that my granddad

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Speaker 2: saved the day, but I just mean before the US

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Speaker 2: was like we have a really big with a lot

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Speaker 2: of fucking torpedoes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the Righteous Armies don't succeed. They mostly ran around.

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Speaker 2: They were like their peak was nineteen oh five to

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Speaker 2: nineteen twelve. But the idea is going to stick around

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Speaker 2: as long as colonization is. And the Japanese colonial government

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Speaker 2: just sucked. It was oppressive as hell, especially right out

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Speaker 2: of the gate. Japan rapidly modernized Korea. Hey, you finally

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Speaker 2: get modernization, you know everything, but the military weird, weird

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Speaker 2: how that happened?

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And one side effect of Japan modernizing Korea is that

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Speaker 2: one hundred years later there are people who are apologists

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Speaker 2: for the fucking colonization of Korea because they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: at least they got modernized.

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Speaker 3: There are dudes who run South Korea who are apologists

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Speaker 3: for college Yeah, pro japad.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense. That does not surprise me. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I bet it's all white people, and I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: I bet it's not. You know, it was really bad.

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Speaker 2: It was a really oppressive colonial region. Obviously, colonial regimes

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Speaker 2: are bad. Everything I've read puts this in the like

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Speaker 2: it's not Belgian Congo. Yeah, but it's not nice. It's

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Speaker 2: in the like medium to extra bad. You know. That's

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Speaker 2: my that's my take. I didn't deep dive it. I

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Speaker 2: could be wrong.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the like I think the thing with

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Speaker 3: Jeopanese superialism is that there's a marked shift where it

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Speaker 3: gets worse, and this is before the shift where it

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Speaker 3: gets worse.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, so what's interesting is one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I was reading was it was saying that this

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Speaker 2: nineteen ten to nineteen nineteen is like the period of

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Speaker 2: the saber, and then they get a little bit more

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Speaker 2: subtle but also more economically destructive. But then I suspect

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Speaker 2: that it then also continues to get militarily worse also

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Speaker 2: on top of.

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Speaker 3: That, yeah, because it accelerates. Once you get like to

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Speaker 3: about nineteen thirty seven nineteen thirty eight, everything gets dramatically worse.

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Speaker 3: For like, you know, if this is the period of

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Speaker 3: the saber, like once you get to about thirty six

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Speaker 3: thirty seven, like that's that's when they are building the

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Speaker 3: concentration camps and yep. Okay, Well I guess I guess

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Speaker 3: they're doing it a bit in the slightly earlier thirties,

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Speaker 3: depending on where you are in China.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it re escalates, No, that makes sense. I

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Speaker 2: did most of my reading, like I read like in

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Speaker 2: detail up to about like nineteen thirty four or so,

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Speaker 2: you know, and then that like, yeah, I read the

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Speaker 2: like summary type stuff of the after.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Overall, the goal was to extract as much value out

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Speaker 2: of the place as possible, as fast as possible, especially Japan.

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Speaker 2: Right now they've had like these rice riots I think

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about later pretty recently. Well, actually

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Speaker 2: they happened in nineteen eighteen. But you know, people are

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Speaker 2: hungry in Japan, and Japan is less and less an

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Speaker 2: agricultural state, but Korea is, and so they're like, let's

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Speaker 2: get as much out of there as we can. A

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Speaker 2: lot of people from Japan moved to Korea, especially more

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Speaker 2: later after nineteen nineteen or so. I've seen it referred

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Speaker 2: to as like a lot of the like fail sons

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Speaker 2: of Japan and then a lot of the like people

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Speaker 2: trying to come up. Yeah, from Japan are the two

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Speaker 2: groups of people who move there. Maybe because of my bias.

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Speaker 2: The most immediate comparison I can make is the English

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Speaker 2: colonization of Ireland in how they like they're like, oh

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Speaker 2: here right next door are a bunch of non modern

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Speaker 2: backwards people. This is August Air quotes that we can

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Speaker 2: extract value out of, even though we're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: do a lot of really intense work to build racial

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Speaker 2: categorization in order to oppress them.

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Speaker 3: Yeap, yep.

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Speaker 2: I only a little bit understand the like racialization of Koreans,

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Speaker 2: you know, as relates to Japan, but it it seems

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Speaker 2: like they had to do a lot of work specifically

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Speaker 2: to be like, let's come up with how they're different,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's like there's a whole I know

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Speaker 3: less about this in Korea, more about it in China.

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Speaker 3: But it's like it gets to a point where they

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Speaker 3: have these like I mean, they're doing just straight up

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Speaker 3: sort of European style race science. They have like they

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Speaker 3: have like guys with like they're not calipers. They have

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Speaker 3: their own system of like racial measure bit things of

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Speaker 3: like how you measure something's face to determine their characteristics,

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Speaker 3: and they're trying to like base their like forced labor

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Speaker 3: system off of that of like who they think is

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Speaker 3: gonna be the most effective worker by like face shape stuff,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's real bad. They are unbelievably racist.

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Speaker 2: God, which is like we're gonna talk later about the

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenty three earthquake in Japan where oh yeah, Japan's

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Speaker 2: gonna run around and kill a lot of Korean immigrants.

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Speaker 2: Six thousand people are gonna get slaughtered. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 2: way that they did it is because they couldn't tell

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Speaker 2: Korean people apart necessarily, so they made them pronounce I

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Speaker 2: don't remember what word, and then if you pronounce it wrong,

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Speaker 2: they'd kill you. And it's also like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously it's wrong to go around and kill people because

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Speaker 2: of racial characteristics or like national origin, but like it

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Speaker 2: caught up a lot of people from like the boonies

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Speaker 2: of Japan, you know, because they had like different accents.

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Speaker 3: Like this is this is a country who's like the

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Speaker 3: shinzo Abe, their longtime prime minister, like couldn't write in

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Speaker 3: one of their writing systems, So like, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's a lot going on there in terms of like

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Speaker 3: the difficulty of language and sort of class.

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Speaker 2: Dynamics, okay, And so Korea is being oppressed and there's

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Speaker 2: this gorilla resistance going on, especially Korean folks who fled

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Speaker 2: into Manchuria, which is the chunk of China immediately north

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Speaker 2: of the Peninsula. As we talked about before, folks up

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Speaker 2: there organizing gorilla bands and raiding Japanese forces regularly in Korea.

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Speaker 2: But this is still not the like major resistance. The

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Speaker 2: first like major resistance that people talk about is the

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Speaker 2: March First Movement. And I bet you can figure out

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Speaker 2: what part of the year the March First Movement happens

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Speaker 2: and July close. It's March. I mean it actually it

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Speaker 2: actually is also I think still happening in July. Like

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Speaker 2: it doesn't all like happen on one day.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, history is so dumb that in

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Speaker 1: July would not be that far vegetive an answer.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean you got the like fucking February

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Speaker 2: Revolution in Russia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everything, all the dates in Russia are like this, yes,

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Speaker 3: like no, it's all different buds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't worries orthodox here. So it's fine. Most of

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Speaker 2: the history I've read for this episode starts basically in

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Speaker 2: the aftermath of the March First Movement. World War One,

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Speaker 2: of course, matters everywhere. When it ended, President Woodrow Wilson

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Speaker 2: was like, here are the fourteen points for peace, and

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Speaker 2: some of those points were like Poland gets to be

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Speaker 2: independent of colonial rule, and the Korean people were like, cool,

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Speaker 2: what about us? Can we be independent of colonial rule?

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Speaker 2: And obviously the Western powers were like no, no, not you.

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Speaker 2: Where did you come from? I think after the war

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Speaker 2: they like send Korean representatives to the League of Nations

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Speaker 2: and they're like, nah, you can't come in. We don't care,

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Speaker 2: we're racist.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, wood Wilson's like, I belong to the KKK.

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Speaker 3: Come on, you thought you guys thought you were going

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Speaker 3: to get independence, Like go on, what are you doing here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But despite not being accepted by the Western powers,

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Speaker 2: the people of Korea are like, nah, let's fucking go.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's have a mass, peaceful movement. This

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Speaker 2: is called the March First Movement because it kicked off

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Speaker 2: on March first, nineteen nineteen, and this is a huge

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Speaker 2: mass movement. It is about two million people. There's not

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Speaker 2: even twenty million people in the whole of the country

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Speaker 2: at that point. And Japan reacted strongly. This is the

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Speaker 2: period of the saber death and arrest numbers very real,

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Speaker 2: wildly because a lot of those numbers come from the

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Speaker 2: Japanese government, and then other numbers come from like Korean nationalism.

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Speaker 2: And no one hasn't any interest in telling the truth, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean many of the people do. But whatever, we're

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Speaker 2: going to go with seven thousand people killed and likely

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Speaker 2: about forty thousand people arrested. Jeez. Despite being crushed really badly,

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Speaker 2: the March First movement did make some gains. The imperial

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Speaker 2: form switched from will kill the shit out of you

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Speaker 2: if you do anything we don't like to. We'll try

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Speaker 2: to ask nicely first, and then we'll kill the shit

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Speaker 2: out of you. That's my paraphrasing of the stuff I've

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Speaker 2: read about the transition to like different methods of rule.

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Speaker 2: And this is what opened Korea up for settler colonialism,

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Speaker 2: and Japanese folks started moving there. They got tons of

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Speaker 2: financial incentives paid for by the Japanese government, so it

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Speaker 2: becomes a settler project as well as a colonial extractive project.

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Speaker 2: It's in the wake of this movement that Korean anarchism

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Speaker 2: really got its start, especially under the name anarchism and

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Speaker 2: when it got started, it immediately went hard. Interestingly, most

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Speaker 2: of its most impactful work, though, didn't happen in Korea.

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Speaker 2: Korean anarchists during this period had the most dramatic and

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Speaker 2: immediate impact in Japan and China, because in the wake

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Speaker 2: of the March First Movement, a ton of radicals had

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Speaker 2: to go into exile, mostly into China. I think the

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Speaker 2: most of them just went into Manchuria because it's right there, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of folks went much further to Shanghai

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Speaker 2: and Beijing and a city called Guangcho, which is more

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Speaker 2: in southern China.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, students who could afford to went to Japan because

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Speaker 2: there were I was like, oh, they must have just

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Speaker 2: been like, oh, that's like the nice place to go

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Speaker 2: to college is the only place to go to college

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Speaker 2: if you're a Korean student. There are literally zero colleges

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Speaker 2: in Korea under early japan Uese rule until nineteen twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, oh my god. And so even when

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Speaker 2: you hear about like all of the like like all

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Speaker 2: these anarchists are gonna be set up all these schools

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Speaker 2: and stuff, right, they're coming out of a time when

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Speaker 2: there was no schools in their country, yeah, or no

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Speaker 2: colleges in their country. The first college in Korea in

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenty four is a Japanese Imperial University.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So most of the students who moved to Japan, they

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Speaker 2: had to work constantly their work study students. And so

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Speaker 2: when I say the people who are like rich enough

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Speaker 2: to go there, these are poor people, but they're like

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Speaker 2: able to get to Japan, and they're absolutely the underclass

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Speaker 2: when they get to Japan, and they're doing really shit

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Speaker 2: jobs in order to get by. And in Tokyo, where

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Speaker 2: most these students went, they fell into academic Japanese leftist circles,

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Speaker 2: especially among anarchists, which appeared to be, at least by

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Speaker 2: the reading that I did, the primary leftist thing going

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Speaker 2: on there at that time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a I kind of want to take a

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Speaker 3: second talk about what's going on more broadly. And this

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Speaker 3: like literally in like within a few months of the

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Speaker 3: March first movement, because like two months later there's the

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Speaker 3: May fourth movement in China, which is a very very

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Speaker 3: similar movement. And if you look at the historiography of

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Speaker 3: you know, like Chinese anarchism, even Chinese communism, this is

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Speaker 3: sort of the place where a lot of that starts.

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Speaker 3: Where because there's this giant student uprising, that's the point

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Speaker 3: where sort of like Western leftist ideologies like really starting

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Speaker 3: to take hold. And this is like this whole period

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Speaker 3: is this real like from here until like really kind

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Speaker 3: of mentioned twenty seven, is this whole period of like

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Speaker 3: almost continuous uprising like in China, I mean particularly intensifies

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Speaker 3: in China like mention twenty four and twenty five, but

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Speaker 3: like this is this is a period where like the

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Speaker 3: Chinese left is also emerging really rapidly. But it's also

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Speaker 3: fascinating because none of the stuff I've ever read about

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Speaker 3: the May the Fourth Movement ever talks about the fact

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Speaker 3: that the first one was in Korean. That's what I

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Speaker 3: was like two months early.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to figure that out because I

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Speaker 2: was like, this seems related, you know, it has to

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Speaker 2: be like a bunch of people from it, like clearly

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Speaker 2: we're in China when yeah, they all went there.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's just one of these things where

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Speaker 3: like because it's yeah, it's like it's all the nationalists

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Speaker 3: his geographies. Yeah, like because it's the main of the

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Speaker 3: Fourth Movement is really really important to both the Chinese

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Speaker 3: Nationalist Party and to the Communists, but when they're writing

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Speaker 3: their history, they don't really want to. I guess you're

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Speaker 3: biden of one of the fact that they were like

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Speaker 3: two months late. Yeah, because Koreans went first. Well, that's

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Speaker 3: even kind of what to talk about about.

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Speaker 2: Like Korea seems to be like I mean, it's this

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Speaker 2: like place, this is constantly colonized by everyone, like kick

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Speaker 2: back and forth, but it has all of these things

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Speaker 2: where like are very very impactful on regional politics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost hadisque where stuff moves there first.

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Speaker 2: Totally Okay, And we're gonna talk a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: And this is good because you're gonna fill in a

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Speaker 2: lot of gaps for me when we gets it's the

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Speaker 2: Chinese part of this, because I'm like, because everything talks

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Speaker 2: about everything siloed off. You read about like ye ye

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Speaker 2: yeah oh, and then the Korea anarchists in China did

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Speaker 2: the following and you're like, there's a war on in China,

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Speaker 2: like how does that relate to it? And it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: we're just talking about the Koreans, and I'm like, there's

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Speaker 2: a war where they went that is clearly going to

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Speaker 2: influence things. And I think what it is is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of it's like writing for people who like

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Speaker 2: know that, right, Yeah, But it's like if I read

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Speaker 2: something that happens in the eighteen sixties in the US,

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Speaker 2: it's like, should we talk about the fact that there's

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Speaker 2: a civil war happening?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: Like anyway, So in Japan, you know, there's the students,

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Speaker 2: they go to Tokyo, and then there's a ton of

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Speaker 2: Korean workers moving elsewhere in Japan, especially to Osaka, and

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Speaker 2: they were doing migrant labor under terrible working conditions because

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Speaker 2: their economy had just been destroyed. In Korea, there's nothing

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Speaker 2: else that they could do. And these folks ended up

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Speaker 2: being part, a major part of the anarchist led labor

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Speaker 2: movements that were happening in the industrial districts. And so

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Speaker 2: you have five distinct Korean anarchist movements all happening at

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Speaker 2: the same time. One is in Korean and it is

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Speaker 2: underground as fuck and it is constantly repressed. It is

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Speaker 2: the worst place to be an anarchist. Out of these, yeah,

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Speaker 2: one is in Manchuria, which is waging a gorilla war.

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Speaker 2: One is in the rest of China and they're heavily

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Speaker 2: involved in Chinese politics and really fascinating and complicated ways,

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Speaker 2: like hanging out with the communists less and the nationalists

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Speaker 2: more and all this weird shit. But then be clear,

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Speaker 2: the communist and nationalists were also hanging out together, so

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Speaker 2: you can't just use this tankies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then also in Tokyo whole different movement that's like

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Speaker 2: working class academic anarchist movement that is like involved in

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Speaker 2: all of this, like assassination plots and all of this,

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Speaker 2: like trying to build up things back in Korea, and

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Speaker 2: is like maybe the most like deeply watching a lot

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Speaker 2: of them. They're all deeply anti colonial. And then in

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Speaker 2: Osaka you have the Labor movement. Five different fucking Korean

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Speaker 2: anarchist movements. It's impressive. That's a lot for one country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: There's so much of it. And we're going to start

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Speaker 2: with what happened in China. But first, even before we

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Speaker 2: talk about China, we'll talk about if I say products

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Speaker 2: and services, this is gonna yep, here's ads, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: I hope everyone enjoys those products and services. To talk

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Speaker 2: about Korean anarchism in China, I'm going to start with

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Speaker 2: a man and a manifesto. See what I did. There's

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Speaker 2: man's in the word manifesto. And I've read like five

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Speaker 2: different versions of this fucking guy's story. Like no, because

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Speaker 2: he's super important outside of his anarchism, both to the

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Speaker 2: Korean independence movement and also to like Korean literature and

390
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Speaker 2: all this other stuff. Right, so his anarchism, of course

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Speaker 2: is like only sometimes included. This man's name is shin Chweho,

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Speaker 2: ironic to how many versions of his history I've seen.

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Speaker 2: He was a historian and a journalist. He started out

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Speaker 2: working with a group called the New People's Association, which

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Speaker 2: is one of these first It wasn't one of the

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Speaker 2: Righteous Armies, but they were like kind of the people

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of the intellectual work of like trying

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Speaker 2: to justify the Righteous Armies. Start in nineteen oh six,

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Speaker 2: and it's basically advocating for creating a republican Korea. And

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Speaker 2: they are supporting the various righteous armies. And they're also

401
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Speaker 2: opening schools, and I think this is where that style

402
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Speaker 2: comes from, but I'm not one hundred percent certain. They

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Speaker 2: are opening schools for both military training and for regular education.

404
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Speaker 2: They're separate schools, so it's not like you go to

405
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Speaker 2: it's like you get both. Yeah, it's cool, but they're separate.

406
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Speaker 2: Also important. Later around nineteen ten, they have to fuck

407
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Speaker 2: off to Manchuria and eventually they're dissolved, and our guy

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Speaker 2: Shin just starts wandering. He writes for newspapers in Russia

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Speaker 2: and then China. He kind of settles in China. It

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Speaker 2: seems like after the March First movement, suddenly all of

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Speaker 2: these exiles pour into China and the Korean Provisional Government

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Speaker 2: formed in Shanghai in nineteen nineteen, and soon Chin is

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Speaker 2: part of it. And this is I think the funniest

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Speaker 2: thing I've read in an anarchist history. You know how

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Speaker 2: like sometimes we cover anarchists who then later joined the government.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, is he one of the wait know what

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Speaker 3: government isn't even it's the inverse.

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Speaker 2: What you know, where Korean anarchism comes from. It comes

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Speaker 2: from the Korean Provisional Government, about half of them deciding

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Speaker 2: they're anarchists and split it off.

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Speaker 3: Is that rule? It's they've They've done an even funnier

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Speaker 3: version of the Portita liber Ati Mexico thing, where the

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00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: Liberal Party became anarchists. But this is even funnier because

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Speaker 3: of their provisional government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that rules. A whole crew of the Korean provisional

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Speaker 2: government started off republicans and wound up anarchists, Shin included.

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Speaker 2: And the way that I've heard this described is they

428
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Speaker 2: basically looked at all the political party bullshit that was happening,

429
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Speaker 2: all of the fighting between political factions, and were like, well,

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Speaker 2: this ain't it now. Granted, obviously there's a lot of

431
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Speaker 2: infighting and anarchism, but it's not political parties fighting for

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Speaker 2: domination over each other, right, Yeah. And then they looked

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Speaker 2: at what the Bolsheviks were doing, crushing their fellow leftists,

434
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: and we're like, well, that's not it either. Also, this

435
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: is during the peak of Chinese anarchism, like roughly, so

436
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 2: this is the leftism that they're you know, sort of

437
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: that or Bolshevism is like the things that they can see.

438
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 2: And the inference I get from these texts is that

439
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: also they looked back at traditional Korean ideals, whether from

440
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: the Silhak movement or the dong Hak movement, and they

441
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, anarchism seems way closer to that stuff,

442
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, which is a thing that we've also

443
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 2: seen elsewhere across the world, where, for example, the you know,

444
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: the democratic and federalists in Roshava come out of a

445
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 2: communist leader who was like, wait, I just read a

446
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: bunch of anarchist texts, and now that I'm thinking about

447
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 2: traditional Kurdish life, that makes more sense.

448
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

449
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: Peter Czarro wrote that in the mid nineteen tens to

450
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 2: about nineteen fifteen was the heyday of Chinese anarchism, and

451
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: I think this means like the heyday of it coming up,

452
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 2: but I'm not one hundred percent certain where you would

453
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: see quote a good deal of organizational activism, especially in narcosyndicalism,

454
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: as well as ideological refinement. And in all of this,

455
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: in both Japan and China, the main i explicitly anarchist

456
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: ideological influence seems to be friend of the pod. Peter

457
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: Kerpotkin specifically around the idea of societies built on mutual aid.

458
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: This is like, you know, newspapers that weren't even anarchists,

459
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: like covering his funeral will kind of like lead a

460
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: lot of people like Shin does that Actually he's like

461
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 2: covers the funeral or whatever, you know. And here's where

462
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 2: we run into one of the splits I've seen between

463
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 2: the two main Korean anarchist historical texts I read, hockey

464
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: Rack is focusing on the nationalist aspects of Korean anarchism

465
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: and a lot of how it ties into these older

466
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: Korean religious movements. Dongwong Hoong, meanwhile, does a really good

467
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: job of showing just how explicitly transnational this movement is.

468
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,479
Speaker 2: So basically it's like the way that people look at

469
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: all of this is like either Koreans were building a

470
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 2: Korean thing even if they weren't at home. And I'm

471
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: not trying to say this is like Hockey Wreck is

472
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 2: like specifically supernationalists, but rather Dong Wo Huong is saying

473
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: their goal is a cosmopolitan world. And he wrote an

474
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 2: entire book that is basically just showing evidence of the

475
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: fact that Korean anarchists, while they were fighting for nationalism,

476
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: they were fighting for the liberation of their country, were

477
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: fighting very explicitly for a cosmopolitan world, not Korea for Koreans,

478
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 2: but instead to end imperialism, destroy borders, and in order

479
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: to do that you start by liberating colonized people like

480
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: us in Korea. I have a strong bias towards the

481
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: latter position if that didn't come across. Yeah, yeah, but

482
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: the evidence is pretty strong. Yeah.

483
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: Well, and I think also, like I don't know how,

484
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it is possible to develop extremely

485
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: national politics by a bunch of people who were spread

486
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: out between a bunch of different countries. But it seems

487
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: it seems kind of difficult to have a really really

488
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 3: nationalist movement when like half of your people are in

489
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: one of like five anarchist circles in Japan, or are

490
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 3: like in Shanghai or Maturia or like in all of

491
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 3: these places that are very very different and also have

492
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: their own sort of like anarchist traditions and stuff like that.

493
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: It seems hard to just have that turned into a

494
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 3: peer like I mean, admittedly, like I'm saying this, and

495
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 3: this is kind of how nationalism came to China to

496
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: the extent that it was like imported back from like

497
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 3: a bunch of intellectuals who've been in Paris for a

498
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 3: bunch of time. But yeah, you know, it's it's kind

499
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: of hard for an anarchist but it's really function like that.

500
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like and it causes I mean, it is

501
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 2: an interesting tension, right that they are all dealing with

502
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: and they're all covering all the different anarchist papers and

503
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: things are all covering, like there's a paper that's covering

504
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: how Chinese women workers are treated at a British owned

505
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 2: factory in Shanghai, and how the liberation of all oppressed

506
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: people is the same. Another person writing at the time,

507
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: Simyong Chio said Korean anarchists, since they were slaves who

508
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: lost their country, had to rely with affection on nationalism

509
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: and patriotism, and thus had difficulties in practice discerning which

510
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: was their main idea and which was their secondary idea.

511
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 2: The reason for the difficulties was due to that their

512
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: enemy was only the one Japanese imperialism. My life is

513
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: one that has drifted along with this kind of contradiction inside,

514
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: and so they're just like, yeah, like I'm a nationalist

515
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: and an anarchist, but not a national anarchist, you know. Yeah,

516
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: it's one of those words that you have lots of meanings. Yeah,

517
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: And you've got all these exiles and they've started a

518
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: government and then half, I don't know what percent a

519
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: chunk of the government splits away to become anarchists. Everyone's

520
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: starting newspapers, some of them are all Koreans, some of

521
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: them are mixed Korean and Japanese. The journalist and historian

522
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: I mentioned Shin Chui how he was a prominent author

523
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: of this era. He ran a newspaper called New Greater Korea,

524
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: as well as another one focused on forming alliances with

525
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: China called heavenlye Drum. And I think it was for

526
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: Heavenly Drum that he covered the death of Krapakin. And

527
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: I love God, I love the names in this. You know,

528
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeither's so good. And he became an anarchist, and he

529
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: did a few things of note immediately. There's a part

530
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: that I know more about, which is that he wrote

531
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: a manifesto, and a part that I wish I knew

532
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: more about. He became a gorilla.

533
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, or at.

534
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: Least was probably counterfeiting money and bringing it to the gorillas.

535
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: But I'm not rules. Yeah, but he wrote a manifesto,

536
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: and it's what comes down to us. One hundred and

537
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: one years later, he wrote in nineteen twenty three, and

538
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: this becomes I'll talk about how important it becomes, but

539
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: it is like not just a like random Reddit post,

540
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's a very influential document. A manifesto called

541
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: the Declaration of a Korean Revolution in nineteen twenty and

542
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: according to some accounts, although they're the less convincing accounts,

543
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: writing it will be the death of him. That manifesto

544
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: opens quote, to sustain the Korean people's survival, we need

545
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: to wipe out Robert Japan. The expulsion of Robert Japan

546
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: can only be accomplished by a revolution. But where do

547
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: we begin to engage in a revolution? After the revolutions

548
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: of the old days, people used to become the slaves

549
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: of the state, and above them there used to be

550
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: lords and masters, a privileged group dominating them. Consequently, the

551
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: so called revolution was nothing but an altered name for

552
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: the privileged group. In other words, a revolution used to

553
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: just replace one privileged group with another. Accordingly, a slogan

554
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: such as behead the king console the people became the

555
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: sole goal of the revolution. However, today's revolution is one

556
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: that the masses make for themselves, and for that reason

557
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: we call it a revolution of the masses and a

558
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: direct revolution. I'm going to keep reading from me because

559
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: I like it and it is very impactful to everything

560
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: we're talking about. From later in it, quote, the road

561
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: to revolution shall we opened through destruction. However, we destroy

562
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: in order not just to destroy, but to construct. If

563
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: we do not know how to construct, that means we

564
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: do not know how to destroy. And if we do

565
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: not know how to destroy, that means we do not

566
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: know how to construct. Construction is distinguishable from destruction only

567
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: in its form, but in spirit, destruction means construction. And

568
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: then they list the five things that they want to destroy,

569
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: the rule of a foreign race, a privileged class, the

570
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: system of economic exploitation, social inequality, and servile cultural thoughts,

571
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: and it ends quote the masses are the supreme headquarters

572
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: of our revolution. Violence is our only weapon for our revolution.

573
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: We go to the masses and go hand in hand

574
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: with the masses with ceaseless violence, assassination, destruct and rebellion.

575
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: We will overthrow the rule of Robert Japan, transform all

576
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: the absurd systems in our life, and construct an ideal

577
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Korea in which one human being will not be able

578
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: to oppress other human beings and one society will not

579
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: be able to exploit other societies.

580
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, this rules, This is great, This is yeah. I

581
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: think that the way that he talks about construction and

582
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: destruction is really interesting because you know, there's the sort

583
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 3: of echo of the Bakunin like our creative destruction stuff,

584
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: but it's a more thought out.

585
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: Version of it. Yeah, totally, because it's not just like, hey,

586
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: destroying is cool too, it's like, well, yeah, actually have

587
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: to destroy. But if you don't know how to create things,

588
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: you don't know how to destroy things. I really like

589
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: that part of it.

590
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true also on like a tactical level too,

591
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: where you know, I mean like, there's obviously the strategic level,

592
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: but on a practical level, it's you know, the best

593
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: way to destroy something is by knowing how it works,

594
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: and you know obviously like but by being the person

595
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: who bakes it work in the first place. So that

596
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: lets you understand the most effective way to de shore

597
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: it and the most effective way to recreate something better

598
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: out of it.

599
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: I like that because it ties that what you just

600
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: said ties into both the like famous Druty quote that

601
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: might not be a druity quote. There's a general during

602
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: the Spanish Civil War who said, we are not in

603
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: the least bit afraid of ruins. We are the workers

604
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: built these palaces here in Spain, and we can build

605
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: them again. Basically, you know, it ties into that and

606
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: the like sun Zoo art of war, like you know,

607
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: if you know your enemy and know yourself, you don't

608
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: have to fear in a thousand battles or whatever. Cool.

609
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: I like what you're saying about it. But what I

610
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: also is destructive to the flow of this conversation is advertising.

611
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: But what at the same time constructs our ability to

612
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: have this conversation within the framework of a capitalist society

613
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: are these advertisers. So they too know how to build,

614
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: destroy and create. And that's why we let them advertise.

615
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: We actually make them prove that they can both destroy

616
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: and create. We do not that's true.

617
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: We do not.

618
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: Thing that I said wasn't true.

619
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: We have no idea who they are.

620
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's some stuff we think and we're back. So

621
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: the author of this is Shin He. I've read some

622
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: versions of his history where he dies in jail, like

623
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: more or less the next year for writing this. I

624
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: think those are not true. More of the versions say

625
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: that he still dies in jail. It's not good for him.

626
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: Other versions where he's arrested by Japanese police in either

627
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight or nineteen twenty nine, and he's not

628
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: arrested for writing this. He's arrested for running counterfeit money

629
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: across a border. I tend to believe those versions, and

630
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: so in those versions he died in solitary confinement nineteenth six.

631
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: He's received numerous awards and recognitions from the South Korean

632
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: government in the century that followed well. At the same time,

633
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: he's sometimes credited for being the founder of the jew

634
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: Cha philosophy of self reliance that guides North Korea. I

635
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: don't think he would have anything nice to say about

636
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: North Korea or South Korea if he was alive. Yeah, yeah,

637
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: what a like that to me? Like that almost sums

638
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: up all of this, right, is like he's a national

639
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: hero to these completely. There's like a triangle of ideologies here, right,

640
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: and he's at one corner at North Korea is at

641
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: a different corner, and South Korea is at a different corner.

642
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: You know.

643
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird because it reminds me of the way

644
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: that like both the okay, how do you actually put this,

645
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: both the Chinese Communist Party and the Nationalists like both

646
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: claimed Son yet Sen as like their great hero because

647
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 3: he was the guy who was running the Nationalist party

648
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: before the Nationalist and Community to split okay, but Sonny

649
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: at Sen at least like ideologically, I mean, she's a

650
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: mess ideologically one of the weirdest guys who has ever

651
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: had a major role in history, like ideologically, but at

652
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: least you can sort of understand how his ideology could

653
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 3: lead to either of these other two groups. Ideology, where's

654
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 3: this guy, It's like, this is an anarchist, Like all

655
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 3: of you people have just sort of like, you know,

656
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 3: you were stripping these Although I admittedly I have actually

657
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 3: heard the sort of like anarchist Juja thing before. It

658
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: was interesting. Yeah, well it's like and I mean, this

659
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: is this is part of what's what's weird about like

660
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 3: ju Cha as an ideology about like sort of the

661
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: North Korean version of it is that it's a really

662
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 3: really deeply weird kind of Marxism. Like it's not normal.

663
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: It's not like an import of Soviet Marxism. It's like

664
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: that faction is its own distinct faction that sort of

665
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: like wiped out the pro Sovia factions and like was

666
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: different than the pro Chinese factions, and so like it

667
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: does I guess it kind of makes sense that they

668
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 3: kind of took in a similar way to like there's

669
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: elements of Maoism that were taken from earlier Chinese anarchism.

670
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: Like I guess it would make sense that they would

671
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: absorb it, but it's also so unbelievably not the same thing.

672
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 2: No, I mean it makes sense. I mean, I mean

673
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: the Bolsheviks took an awful lot from the anarchists during

674
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: the like October Revolution, and like you know, like yeah,

675
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: I mean, fascism takes from you know, everyone takes from Anicus.

676
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: Like it as good as good ideas and good critiques,

677
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 3: and that's it turns out like it's much much better

678
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: at producing critiques of other societies than most other people,

679
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: like basically the other ideologies. So other ideologies take the

680
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 3: critique and then leave the politics out of it.

681
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: That yeah, that tracks. I got called a tanky on

682
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: Twitter the other day by a liberal and I was

683
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: just like what. And I think it's because I had

684
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: used the word imperialism or whatever, and I'm like, my god,

685
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 2: what did every tankies hate me? Yeah? Anyway, so he

686
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: wrote that manifesto. He also probably smuggled counterfeit money, and

687
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: he wrote a ton of like novels and shit which

688
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: I really want to read, and I did not successfully

689
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: find any English translations of them. They might exist. I

690
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: didn't find any of my looking, but they are still

691
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: in print, some of his books in Korea. When I'm

692
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 2: rich as hell, I'm going to pay translators to translate

693
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: all the great novels and shit written by anarchists that

694
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: never made it into English. And what's fascinating about this manifesto?

695
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 2: SiZ is cool and I like it is that one.

696
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: It is one of the more important documents of the

697
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: Korean independence movement. Two. In April nineteen twenty four, a

698
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: group called the Eastern Anarchist Federation got started, and this

699
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: brings together anarchists from China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and Taiwan.

700
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: And when they got together, they adopted a platform. And

701
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: the platform the anarchists of these five different countries, all

702
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: very different positions within the world stage, they adopted the

703
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: platform those based on the declaration of the Korean Revolution.

704
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: And that is fucking cool, yeah, because it's basically all

705
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: of these anarchists from all of these different places they

706
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: look at this document about national liberation and are like, yeah,

707
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: we want career to be free. That's like kind of

708
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: the you know, like we can build from there. You know.

709
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 2: Also cool about this the Eastern Anarchists Federation. I don't

710
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: know if you've heard this. Their newspaper. The title translates

711
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: to the East. And this makes me happy because there's

712
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: this really mid movie called The East from about ten

713
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: years ago or something. Have you all seen this movie?

714
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: No?

715
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god, have y'all not even heard of this movie?

716
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: No?

717
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 2: Oh my god. It has that he was the only

718
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: famous transactor, trans masculine actor.

719
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: I was gonna say Hunter Shaffer, but clearly.

720
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: Not Elliott Page.

721
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, huh.

722
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: It has Elliott Page in it, and they're like an

723
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: anarchist cell that's like a terror cell in the US.

724
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: It's like clearly based on crime thing.

725
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: This was his fucking face in it. Who's super famous?

726
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: What's the name Alexander Skarsgard.

727
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I've never heard this.

728
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: I've quite literally never heard of this, and I like

729
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: both of those actors.

730
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: Wow, it's a most it did it clearly didn't do

731
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,479
Speaker 2: super well.

732
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: But then again, you called it a mid movie, so

733
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: I don't need to care.

734
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: It got it well. Me calling it a mid movie

735
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: is saying I like it more than any of my friends.

736
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: Valid but they don't like it because it's a reflection

737
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: of a specific time of anarchist culture as seen from

738
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: an outsider in a way that is like not always

739
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: reflective in a positive way, because it's a little culty.

740
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: It is very culty. It's a movie about an anarchist

741
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: cult that does good things, but like clearly it's made

742
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 2: by someone who's sympathetic but disagrees at the end. Yeah,

743
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: and that group is called the East, and it makes

744
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 2: me happy that there's a real group called the East.

745
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: Why would the group why would the American one be

746
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: called the East?

747
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 2: Though?

748
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 3: Because there's no way that these directors.

749
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: No, I don't know. I don't think they knew about it.

750
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: Korean Americast newspaper.

751
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: I think that they named it that. I get the

752
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: impression because they wanted to use like sort of like

753
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: a compass, like are you lost, find your way from,

754
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: like you know, a guiding star, find the East. They

755
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: just wanted a cardinal direction.

756
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: I think they could have made it more realistic by

757
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: just saying the word black and picking a random object

758
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 3: like this worst black flag, black wave, black mask, black tide.

759
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: I know, but that style doesn't work as well in

760
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: the US. People still do it in the US, but

761
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: like overall, calling something black something has just different connotations

762
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: in the US.

763
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true.

764
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: I thought the East was a pretty evocative name, and

765
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm just really excited that it's clearly based on the

766
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: Eastern Anarchist Federation.

767
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 3: It's newspaper.

768
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: Also, a random thing that I learned about the Eastern

769
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 2: Anarchist Federation that at least one conference. This is how

770
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: I know that there's an anarchist run hospital because one

771
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: of the years they met and had their conf at

772
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 2: the hospital. Huh that anarchists had formed and were running

773
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: at rules, Yeah, in nineteen twenty eight, that's where their

774
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: conference was. These first few years, like nineteen twenty nineteen

775
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: twenty five are sort of seen as the early period

776
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: of Korean anarchism, which groups were formed and works started

777
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 2: to get done, and in order to kind of understand

778
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: what they were doing in China, here's my attempt to

779
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: as best as I can understand what's going on in China.

780
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: There's a fuck ton going on in China during this time. Yeah,

781
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: so much. In nineteen eleven, the two hundred year Qing

782
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 2: dynasty was like, what if we got overthrown by a revolution?

783
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: We'll call it the nineteen eleven revolution, and then they

784
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: did nineteen twelve, you get the Republic of China, and

785
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: it's been that way ever since the end, except that actually, instead,

786
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifteen the monarchy blipped back on the scene

787
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: and got overthrown. In nineteen sixteen, the Republic came back,

788
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: and then by the time our story happened, it seems

789
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: to be get called the warlord era. Yeah, it's never

790
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: a good time to be alive. Actually, I mean, I

791
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: don't know. It might be fun, it's not a good

792
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: time to live A long time.

793
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: It sucked. Yeah, So if you want a really really

794
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 3: exhaustive breakdown of this, I did it that. The first

795
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 3: Bastards episode I ever did was about this guy and

796
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: David Jong Jong Chong, who's one of the warlords in

797
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: this period.

798
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: He's the dog beat general.

799
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: If you go listen to that episode about that, I

800
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: actually learned all of the factions, and that episode has

801
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: exhaustive detail on it, and I left out like four

802
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: of the big factional fights because like all of the

803
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 3: literally the moment the nineteen eleven revolution happens, like there's

804
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 3: all of these different factions based on like the existing

805
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 3: armies and they all break up, and they're all constantly

806
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 3: fighting each other at different Woolard clicks, so like moving

807
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: around the country, seizing territory and losing territory. And it's

808
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: one of the most politically complicated periods I have ever encountered.

809
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: It's like, Yeah, as I'm saying this, I'm realizing this

810
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 3: applies to three people on Earth. But if you've ever

811
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: to do a really, really in depth micro look at

812
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 3: who controls one in Yemen, it's like that but across

813
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: a continent.

814
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.

815
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: It's so convoluted.

816
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny because the next paragraph says confused yet,

817
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 2: well me, it probably isn't confused, but the listener might be,

818
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: and I might be. Yeah, And what I had is that,

819
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: you know, the warlord era. Warlordism starts to end when

820
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 2: the Nationalist Party eventually under Chen Kai Shek, but not

821
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: yet and the brand new Communist Party joined forces to

822
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: create the National Revolutionary Army, and the anarchists are kind

823
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: of working with this, and it's complicated. This lasts not

824
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: very long that them getting along. In nineteen twenty seven,

825
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: Chen Kai Shek was like, fuck all the commis, they

826
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: started fighting each other until once again they formed a

827
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: United Front nineteen thirty six because Japan was going to

828
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: invade further into China. That's my my speed run of it.

829
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think there's one really important moment.

830
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: Definitely kind of neither of the the nationalists were I mean,

831
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: the Coyist the Communists are kind of involved in it,

832
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 3: but in nineteen twenty five there are these so nuetely

833
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: twenty four is when the nationalists who are still under

834
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: Sun yet Sen and the communiststart working together and the communists,

835
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 3: like the like literals becically the Bolsheviks rebuild the entire

836
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 3: nationalist party basically into a party that's built in their image.

837
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 3: It's really interesting because they're the first really I think,

838
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 3: like proper like well they're doing this a little bit

839
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: before this, Like this is the first real like communist

840
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 3: party built in the image of like of specifically the Bolsheviks.

841
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 3: And then they immediately get taken over by a proto

842
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 3: fascist and who kills all of them.

843
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: Is that Shan Kai shak as the proto fascist.

844
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shan Kai Shack.

845
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

846
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the sort of proto fascist drug lord cartel guy.

847
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I heard him Pretisenta as the centrist of the

848
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: three people who could have taken over. Yeah. So, but

849
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: I trust you more than I trust this thing. Yeah.

850
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: The thing about Shinkai Shek is that so he's trained

851
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: in by rushed by Russian military academies. Right when when

852
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 3: the Bolsheviks rebuild the nationalist army, he's one of the

853
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 3: guys who goes through their military thing. And the Russians

854
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: like think that he's a communist, but he's not a communist.

855
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: He is an organized crime guy and he's been in

856
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: his that's been his whole thing from the beginning, is

857
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,959
Speaker 3: that he's very very He's like he's a sworn brother

858
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 3: of this thing called the Green Gang, which is one

859
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: of the massive like Chinese organized crime cartels.

860
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: Ok.

861
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: And he basically the moment he like takes power, he

862
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: starts turning on both left wing of the nationalists and

863
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: the communists and eventually just exterminates them all, kills something

864
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 3: like a million people.

865
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: Cool.

866
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's he's the guy who puts an end

867
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 3: to sort of the this period that starts in nineteen

868
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 3: twenty five where there are these mass uprisings against against

869
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: the warlords, like in every single Chinese City. There are

870
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of people in the streets.

871
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: I mean, this enormous general strike. This spreads into like

872
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: Hong Kong, like every every one of these cities has

873
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 3: these unbelievably massive uprisings. I I haven't like directly read

874
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 3: about the Korean anarchists being involved in this, but there's

875
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 3: no way they wouldn't have been in the streets because

876
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 3: this was this is like an antiperialist uprising too, because

877
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 3: like the inciting incident is that I think it was

878
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 3: actually specifically Japanese troops open a fire and striking workers, okay,

879
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: and everyone just goes up. And so there's this giant

880
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 3: sort of like super revolutionary period between nineteen twenty five

881
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 3: and nineteen twenty seven where the entire country of China

882
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: is just going up and the nationalist army's marketing across

883
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 3: the country and then Chang Kai Shek hijackson and kills

884
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: them all. So that's that's the brief thing of the

885
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 3: situation in China, which is, yeah, there's this massive revolution

886
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: and then Chang Kai Shek slaughters everyone.

887
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: And that's the kind of thing that like when you

888
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: present here's Korean anarchism, and they happen to I'll be

889
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: in China. Something's happening in China. This is not a

890
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: blank slate.

891
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I guess like I shall also

892
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 3: mention the Chinese anarchist movement is split because there's a

893
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: lot of so they're kind of they're kind of in

894
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: the nationalist coalition because the nationalist coalition includes everyone from

895
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: the nationals coalition stretches from on the one end, like

896
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: almost monarchist landlords to Mao. So this is this is

897
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 3: not a viable political coalition, right in the long run.

898
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 3: This is this is the it's it's everyone who actually

899
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: is trying to do politics in China fighting like the

900
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: war lords. Yeah, so the anarchists are involved in this,

901
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: but some of them, I don't know. There's a lot

902
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 3: going on, partially because by this point everyone has started

903
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: to realize that the Bolsheviks are killing anarchists, right.

904
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

905
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: And also a lot of these people have close personal

906
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 3: relationship Shankaishek. Yeah, for reasons. They're just like friends with him.

907
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 3: So when the split happens, some of them break with

908
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 3: a nationalists and some of them kind of break towards

909
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: neither because both the communists and the nationalists start killing them.

910
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got the uh kind of remember which source

911
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: it was. One of the things I was reading was

912
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: saying that, like the split between the anarchists who supported

913
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: the nationalists after everything started breaking up and the ones

914
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: who are like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah,

915
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: that split is something that Chinese anarchisms just kind of

916
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 2: never recovered from.

917
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't.

918
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: And that's like when it stopped being one of the

919
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: primary political ideologies of the area.

920
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and the second problem is that they don't

921
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: have an army, right, both of the Like, the nationalists

922
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: have this army that was trained by the Bolsheviks, which

923
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: is the best non imperialist army in China. Yeah, and

924
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: then the communists have the other part of this army

925
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: that was trained by the Bolsheviks, which is.

926
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting, and I think I have a little Okay, Well,

927
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: the thing I want to say is just like a

928
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: couple paragraphs down, So I'm just going to keep going.

929
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: In the meantime, Korean and Chinese and Japanese anarchists in China,

930
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: they start setting up schools everywhere, and this is like

931
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: kind of what they're doing, right, and they're like full

932
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: on primary and secondary schools, and they're also setting up

933
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: military schools, and specifically they're doing this thing where they're

934
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: trying to train peasants into these peasants militias as a

935
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: way to help them drive off both like warlords and

936
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: bandits and also the Chinese Communist Party. Yep. Yeah, and

937
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: this movement is particularly large in Guangzhou, a city in

938
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 2: southern China, and they raise people's militias because they figured

939
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: people's militias would be harder to recuperate into one of

940
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: these large militaries. So the impression I get from what

941
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: you just said and the sources that I've been looking

942
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: at was it sounds like the anarchists didn't have an

943
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: army on purpose, which might not have worked out for

944
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: them in the end.

945
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and it's it's also a mess because Guangzhou,

946
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 3: so Guangzho is is like very it's very close to

947
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 3: both sort of Shenzhen, and well, Shenzen is not really

948
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: a real city at that point, like it's it's not

949
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 3: the city that is now, but it's really close to

950
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: Hong Kong. And this is sort of unfortunate because this

951
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 3: is that's like the nationalist heartland.

952
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and so.

953
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: It's it's kind of trying to wager insurgency from there,

954
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 3: is a bit like you're trying to wage an insurgency

955
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 3: from Texas, where it's.

956
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: Like, well, and so what happened is the these schools

957
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: were largely funded by the nationalists. Yeah, but eventually the

958
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: nationalists are like, fuck this, We're going to force you

959
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: to dissolve all this.

960
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have so many drugs to sell, we do

961
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: not have time to run schools. Like, yeah, we are

962
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 3: too busy getting unbelievably rich off the opium trade to

963
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: have your peudy anarchist teaching children how to read thing.

964
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that doesn't surprise me. Overall, the vibe I

965
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: got from reading about Chinese anarchism through this lens of

966
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 2: what the Korean anarchists were doing in China was that

967
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: the vibe was like, we're going to build schools and

968
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 2: I guess hospitals, and raise people's militias and help peasants

969
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: defend themselves and educate themselves, which is a good vibe.

970
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

971
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: In the schools that they built, faculty and students lived

972
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 2: eight and worked together. They intentionally included Korean anarchists as

973
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: well as Chinese anarchist teachers, I believe also Japanese anarchist

974
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: teachers I was reading about. They would teach social movements,

975
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: they'd teach critiques of communism, they'd teach how to organize

976
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: rural societies, they teach critiques of capitalism. And they had

977
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 2: three goals, a free and autonomous life, a cooperative laboring life,

978
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: and a cooperative defensive life. And then the Nationalist Party

979
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: ordered it dissolved after less than a year. Yeah, they

980
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: really really did their hard right turn. But they keep

981
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: doing all this shit. And the reason that this part

982
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: is important, this seems to be the vibe that causes

983
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: Manchuria do its thing that we're going to talk about later,

984
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: you know, because it's a similar this idea, this idea

985
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: of free autonomous life, a cooperative laboring life, and a

986
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: cooperative defensive life. Yeah, as like paired together. Like I'm

987
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: down with that. I mean, obviously it has. It clearly

988
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: didn't work out militarily in this particular, you know. But

989
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about Manchuria yet because we've

990
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 2: still got Japanese Korean anarchists to talk about. In labor

991
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: unions and assassination plots, and also we're going to talk

992
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 2: about Korean Korean anarchists who are desperately trying to organize underground.

993
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: And on top of that, we're going to eventually talk

994
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 2: about two million people who built a bottom up peasant

995
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: society to fight imperialism and live their best lives. And

996
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it all next week, but first we're

997
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: going to talk about it could happen here or whatever

998
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: you want to talk about. Whatever you want to talk about.

999
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, well let's look like what I could happen here.

1000
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: It's I've realized I haven't actually mentioned what this podcast

1001
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: is about. Our tagline is things falling apart and how

1002
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 3: to put them back together again. So we do a

1003
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: lot of I don't know we do. We do a

1004
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: lot of of history stuff. We do a lot of

1005
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 3: I guess news labor. I do a lot of labor

1006
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: reporting also good history. Yeah, I was about to say

1007
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 3: I had I had you on the show. I don't

1008
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 3: remember how long ago it was, but to talk about

1009
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: Japanese anarchism. So if that, if that's the thing that

1010
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,479
Speaker 3: you want to talk about, Yeah, there's some episode about

1011
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 3: it in the In the Misty Past that was that

1012
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: was That was a really good time.

1013
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: Yep. And if you want to hear what I have

1014
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: to say about random ship, God, I'm really selling myself

1015
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 2: right now. I am so hungry. We're recording this a

1016
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: little bit later than we usually record, and it is showing.

1017
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: But I have a substack called whatever it's called. Just

1018
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: google Margaret Kiljoy substack and you'll find it and then

1019
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 2: you'll hear me write about politics and history and all

1020
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: the stuff. And some of it's personal and some of

1021
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: it's not. And the most recent piece I wrote is

1022
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: called I Hate Election Years, and it's about why I

1023
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: hate election years. Yea, and yeah, no, it's great. It's

1024
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: like designed to piss off all the people who are like,

1025
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 2: no vote for the lesser evil, or like no voting's

1026
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 2: bad or just I'm just like it's how I'm tired

1027
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 2: of it, all hate it. I'm tired of it. I

1028
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: can't wait till next year. I mean, I'm sure everything's

1029
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: gonna be worse next year. But anyway, that's me, Sophia.

1030
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: Gu anything you want to plug.

1031
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: Oh, I just gonna talk about the importance of voting. No,

1032
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, whatever, No, just follow at Coolson media. We

1033
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: got a bunch of shows that are really really interesting

1034
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: and well researched, and I just can't recommend them enough

1035
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: to look out for that, including it could happen here

1036
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: featuring Mia.

1037
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: And if you're ever like how do I make the

1038
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 2: world better but you don't know how. There's two things

1039
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: that are almost never bad, feeding people and rescuing animals.

1040
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, one of those better be

1041
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: a pet.

1042
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah no, yeah, no, I was. I was like watching

1043
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: a just Twitter video of someone rescuing a straight dog

1044
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: and saving it and befriending it, and you know, like

1045
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: there's there's certain things that you're like almost never in

1046
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 2: the wrong when you feed people, yeah, and you're almost

1047
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: never in the wrong when you find and rescue animals.

1048
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: Someone's gonna be like, what do you mean almost never,

1049
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: And I'll be like I hate discourse by I see

1050
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 2: you all next week. Yeah, that's it.

1051
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: That's the end, And that's the end of this podcast.

1052
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: Because my rescue dog is looking at me like excuse me, Yeah,

1053
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 1: it's my time, it's why are we not paying attention

1054
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: to me? And she is correct, Yeah, So I'm gonna

1055
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: go pay attention to her.

1056
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: Dog times see y'all next week. Bye.

1057
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1058
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1059
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1060
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1061
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 3: You get your podcasts.