Speaker 1: It's time now for another episode of Pats from the
Speaker 1: Past podcast. I'm Natt Smith alongside with Paul Perrillo when
Speaker 1: we're pleased today to be joined by Ernie Adams, who
Speaker 1: spans many years here in the Patriots Organization. Ernie, how
Speaker 1: are you doing today? And thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: I'm great and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 3: It's a good get for Matt. It was stepping up
Speaker 3: our client. Tell a little bit here, Matt, I.
Speaker 1: Think most Patriot fans please tell me if you disagree.
Speaker 1: Probably I'll know that Ernie's now retired, which is at
Speaker 1: once a very sad day for the Patriots Organization because
Speaker 1: of all the success he's helped be a part of,
Speaker 1: but probably a great day for Ernie and his family.
Speaker 1: How do you enjoy retirement?
Speaker 2: Every day is great? Ah, I'm in total control of
Speaker 2: my time and that's uh. You know, it's sixty nine
Speaker 2: years old. That's a great place to be.
Speaker 1: Did you ever was it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: It amazed to me some people. I'm going to work
Speaker 1: until you know whenever? Was retirement something that you did
Speaker 1: you think about that as you were working? Like, you
Speaker 1: know what one day I think I would like to
Speaker 1: slow down and and see some things that I never
Speaker 1: or do some things I never had.
Speaker 2: A chance to do well. Probably over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, I knew I knew it was going to come.
Speaker 2: Dying at the office was never part of the plan.
Speaker 2: Uh So it's it felt like the right time.
Speaker 1: For Patriots fans who don't know Ernie's a would you
Speaker 1: would you classify yourself as a voracious reader?
Speaker 2: That's probably a fair assessment.
Speaker 1: Yes, what are you reading now that you would recommend
Speaker 1: to Patriot fans that you enjoy that you're enjoying?
Speaker 2: Mean, oh boy, that's uh for Patriots fans that they
Speaker 2: would really enjoy. Uh. Read a great book about Maynard Keynes. Uh.
Speaker 2: Author's last name is O'Toole. I think I have to
Speaker 2: get the title Time of Peace. Great great book about
Speaker 2: how economics or a social phenomenon, not a hard science
Speaker 2: that that might be at the top of my timely topic.
Speaker 3: Very timely capulated.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you, you know, when
Speaker 3: Matt was talking about the retirement stuff, just what was
Speaker 3: what was the season like for you last year? Sort
Speaker 3: of you know, what did you do on a typical
Speaker 3: NFL Sunday. Were you watching intently or were you doing
Speaker 3: apple picking? You know with the fan.
Speaker 2: So I watched. I certainly watched Patriots games. And if
Speaker 2: there were teams that were interesting to me, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: then then I would watch them. I did not sit
Speaker 2: there glued watching you know, every uh every game that
Speaker 2: came on.
Speaker 1: Well, players will say that when they see the games
Speaker 1: or it gets to be training camp, those that have retired,
Speaker 1: that there's an itch that comes back. Did you ever
Speaker 1: have an inch or was there was had that been scratched?
Speaker 2: Pm I would say, I would say it's the itch
Speaker 2: had been scratched. I mean it's game days. The is
Speaker 2: the fun time, uh, you know, driving home on Tuesday nights,
Speaker 2: worrying about heitting a deer out on nine nine five.
Speaker 3: That's don't get Matt going on that. He's that's one
Speaker 3: of his hat irrational fears.
Speaker 2: Right, there are deer out there, I know, right, right.
Speaker 1: So this is a fascinating career that you've had, Ernie,
Speaker 1: as a younger person, what sparked was it, can you
Speaker 1: think of one thing where that ignition sort of happened?
Speaker 1: And you said, man, I'm really interested in this In
Speaker 1: the game of football.
Speaker 2: Sure it was when I was an eighth eighth grader
Speaker 2: at Dexter School in Brookline. Uh, football was mandatory intramurro,
Speaker 2: so there was no no choice. I want to play football,
Speaker 2: I don't. If you're at Dexter School, you're going to
Speaker 2: play football. And I was the athletic director there. George
Speaker 2: Downple was just a wonderful human being, and I had
Speaker 2: also why don't we do this? Why don't we do that?
Speaker 2: And he finally said, look, you're so smart. You coach
Speaker 2: your team. We'll see how you do. And that's where
Speaker 2: it started.
Speaker 1: Did you envision at that point in time, was that
Speaker 1: this is this is a real love?
Speaker 2: Oh? I knew, Hey, this is this is a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. And it grew from there.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you were really into it, and then you know,
Speaker 3: you do your your high school and you meet another
Speaker 3: guy who's really into it. How long did it take
Speaker 3: you to realize? Bill Belichick was pretty similar.
Speaker 2: In his thoughts. Probably about a minute. So of course
Speaker 2: weeh we met fall of nineteen seventy. We were both
Speaker 2: sior seniors at Phillips Academy in Andover. We played on
Speaker 2: an undefeated football team and we had a great time together,
Speaker 2: and it was It's basically started a fifty plus year
Speaker 2: conversation about football.
Speaker 3: Was it mapped out? Did you guys sort of say
Speaker 3: this is this is where we want to go, and
Speaker 3: this how we might get there.
Speaker 2: We both knew we really enjoyed football. I can't say
Speaker 2: that we're eighteen. We had, you know, every step of
Speaker 2: the way mapped out, but things went from went from there.
Speaker 1: And so how did that happen maybe or increase the
Speaker 1: likelihood or maybe increased your love of the game When
Speaker 1: you were at Northwestern.
Speaker 2: Well, I was, of course it was Bill's Bill's dad,
Speaker 2: Steve made an introduction to me at Northwestern and that
Speaker 2: worked great. And then when I finished at Northwestern, I
Speaker 2: came June of nineteen seventy five, I had an interview
Speaker 2: with Chuck Fairbanks about joining his staff. And what really
Speaker 2: worked for me was that Check had been coach at
Speaker 2: the University of Oklahoma. He was used to having graduate
Speaker 2: assistants and there's young coaches who did all the lot
Speaker 2: of the grunt work, so he was it was kind
Speaker 2: of no risk for Chuck. It was it was a
Speaker 2: tryout basis. He said, look, if this goes well, great,
Speaker 2: if not, I'll let you go. So about I came
Speaker 2: in and interviewed with Chuck on a Monday, and I
Speaker 2: had a conversation probably a day or two after with Bill,
Speaker 2: with Bill Belichick when he just graduated from Wesley, and
Speaker 2: told him what I was doing, and he said, you know,
Speaker 2: that sounds like a pretty good place to be in
Speaker 2: the NFL instead of going to college. So he went
Speaker 2: in shortly thereafter and talked to Ted Marsha brought at
Speaker 2: the Colts and that's where he started at the Colts.
Speaker 1: I think people like Paul and myself look at what
Speaker 1: the NFL is today. It's just mega monster and everything
Speaker 1: like that. But can you talk about like the job
Speaker 1: interview in nineteen seventy five for the New England Patriots
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Yeah, we think of the NFL as
Speaker 1: this big deal. I'm not saying it wasn't a big
Speaker 1: deal in nineteen seventy five. That's still the highest league.
Speaker 1: But what was that like like in nineteen seventy five, Ernie,
Speaker 1: We like getting your introduction of the NFL.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I Chuck Fairbanks was just a wonderful
Speaker 2: person to work with, and that was that that was
Speaker 2: a big deal. Of course, the league was was much
Speaker 2: smaller if in fact, if you remember in nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 2: the Patriots was still a publicly traded company. You could
Speaker 2: go to the Boston Stock Exchange and buy a sheriff
Speaker 2: to England Patriots. Well, one of the uh the results
Speaker 2: of that was as a publicly traded company, the Patriots
Speaker 2: had to publish every year their complete financial statements, which
Speaker 2: I have a copy of their last annual report and
Speaker 2: I gave I gave a copy of that Robert Kraft.
Speaker 2: I said, now, don't laugh when you look up. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was, you know, it was, it was the National
Speaker 2: Football League, but it was so much it was it
Speaker 2: was smaller than it was, and that was obviously right.
Speaker 3: And you know, Matt and I are, you know, of
Speaker 3: similar age, and we have a sort of affection. Would
Speaker 3: you say for those teams seventy six, seventy seven, you know,
Speaker 3: that era of Patriots football was when we were kids
Speaker 3: and we were really really getting into it. And I'm
Speaker 3: just curious your thoughts on just how good you know,
Speaker 3: you mentioned Chuck Fairbanks, the talent that he brought here,
Speaker 3: how good some of those teams were that maybe kind
Speaker 3: of forgotten because of all the success you and Bill
Speaker 3: have had.
Speaker 2: Well, of course, I was with the Patriots then for
Speaker 2: four years, from nineteen seventy five through seventy eight. The
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, the year before I got here. In
Speaker 2: seventy four, the Patriots, if you remember, had started six
Speaker 2: and one and then and ended one and then one
Speaker 2: and six, sources seven and seven overall record. And then
Speaker 2: in seventy five we had our team went on strike
Speaker 2: the day before the last preseason game with the Jets.
Speaker 2: So we were, may may seem most strange, we were
Speaker 2: playing the Jets in the last preseason game playing in
Speaker 2: the It was that game was going to be play
Speaker 2: in the Yale Bowl. So we had a usual Saturday
Speaker 2: morning workout and we had lunch in the old Stadium
Speaker 2: club over with the Schaeffer Stadium. The players, after lunch
Speaker 2: decided to go to go out on strike, and they
Speaker 2: didn't come back till I think Wednesday of the following
Speaker 2: week of the open over the Ears. But that that
Speaker 2: really cast a a pall over the over the whole season.
Speaker 2: And then of course, you know, Jim Plunkett heard his
Speaker 2: shoulder and so we went, Yeah, that gave Steve Grogan
Speaker 2: a chance to play with the rookie. So the first year,
Speaker 2: you know, three eleven, that was a real disappointment. But
Speaker 2: the next year coming back, of course, we went eleven
Speaker 2: and three in the regular season. I probably remember the
Speaker 2: Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl that year. Well, in
Speaker 2: the they were thirteen and one in the regular season.
Speaker 2: That one loss was when we beat them. I think
Speaker 2: it was like forty eight to fourteen.
Speaker 1: I was at that game.
Speaker 3: I remember, I'm going to go seventeen.
Speaker 1: It was a blower, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a blowout, complete blowout. Yeah. And then of
Speaker 2: course we played them in the the infamous Divisional playoff
Speaker 2: game where we had them third. You know, we've got
Speaker 2: we had a lead, had them third and eighteen. They
Speaker 2: throw an incomplete passion. Ray Hamilton gets called for roughing
Speaker 2: the passer. Let's say, probably a bit of a marginal call,
Speaker 2: you know. When they went on to you know, to
Speaker 2: beat us right at the animals, Stable kept the ball
Speaker 2: winning for the winning touch up. But that was my
Speaker 2: point is that in seventy six, I mean, we were
Speaker 2: we were a championship caliber team, even though you know
Speaker 2: we didn't win. Most seasons still end up being, you know,
Speaker 2: two or three teams playing at the towards the end
Speaker 2: of the season that really have a legitimate chance to win,
Speaker 2: and we were one of them.
Speaker 1: A lot of players and a lot of coaches. It's
Speaker 1: not necessarily the wins that they enjoy reminiscing about. It's
Speaker 1: those losses that they can't get over. And easy for
Speaker 1: me to say this, but I wonder does that loss
Speaker 1: bug you because you had beaten Pittsburgh already in the
Speaker 1: regular season that year in Pittsburgh, by the way, in
Speaker 1: no disrespect to Minnesota, but Minnesota wasn't in the same
Speaker 1: class that one. You know, I think you can make
Speaker 1: a really legitimate argument that that call doesn't get made.
Speaker 1: You beat the Steelers and you beat the NFC representative
Speaker 1: I was, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I'm all presidents. I think that would have happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, the two best teams in the league that
Speaker 2: year with the Patriots and the Raiders, and they you know,
Speaker 2: they came out on the long end of the score,
Speaker 2: but I mean we were You hate seeing a game
Speaker 2: really come down to, uh, you know, to a call,
Speaker 2: but it did.
Speaker 3: You know, how do you you look back at those
Speaker 3: it's so different, you know, the way you guys played
Speaker 3: with all of the running and the record you guys
Speaker 3: ended up setting in seventy eight for the all time
Speaker 3: rushing team stat And then you look at the way
Speaker 3: the game is played, you know now you know.
Speaker 2: Just can you well right, it's become much more of
Speaker 2: a passing league. But I will point out you got
Speaker 2: a really good team, the Baltimore Ravens, Yeah, who feature
Speaker 2: you know, feature the running game. Uh, And they're a
Speaker 2: little bit similar to what we were because we had
Speaker 2: I think in seventy six, Steve Grogan probably had close
Speaker 2: to five hundred yards rushing. So it wasn't just the
Speaker 2: running backs who were who were making a lot of
Speaker 2: the yards. It was the quarterback as well. And we were,
Speaker 2: you know, we we were committed. We were committed to
Speaker 2: being a running football team. Although we go when we
Speaker 2: had you know, players like Darryl Stingley, Rush Francis, you know,
Speaker 2: and Steve a quarterback. When we you know, when we
Speaker 2: needed to throw the ball, we could. I mean you
Speaker 2: mentioned beating the being the steel in three rivers. I
Speaker 2: mean we were down, we were down twenty to nine.
Speaker 2: We hit fourth and one hit Russ Francis on a
Speaker 2: fifty five yard pass. Then we hit Darryl Stingley on
Speaker 2: a big on a big play. So I mean we
Speaker 2: had you know, we had players who are very good
Speaker 2: passing the ball, but it was we were definitely a
Speaker 2: running team first.
Speaker 1: Uh you probably my guess is this is maybe it's
Speaker 1: wrong and that I should say it this way. Probably
Speaker 1: not a big fan of nicknames per se, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure you were aware in the day Cosell and calling
Speaker 1: Francis all world. Patriot fans today have no idea who
Speaker 1: Russ Francis is. They can't remember him anything like that.
Speaker 1: My words here, I'd like to say that I think
Speaker 1: it was Gronk before Gronk. Is that a fair Is
Speaker 1: that a fair statement to make?
Speaker 2: I mean the big difference, the biggest difference between Russ
Speaker 2: Francis and Rob Gronkowski is that Rob played on a
Speaker 2: passing team with a Hall of Fame quarterback. I mean,
Speaker 2: Rush was you know, we were more of a running team.
Speaker 2: He was a like Rob was a devastating blocker on
Speaker 2: the edge. Rushhead, you know, great athletic ability, great hands.
Speaker 2: He When you talk, what do you want for a
Speaker 2: tight end? What do you think of rush Francis, Rob Gronkowski.
Speaker 2: I have no problem putting them in the.
Speaker 1: Same that's heady category right.
Speaker 3: In the big plays. Like you know, there was a
Speaker 3: couple of years, you know, before all of these modern
Speaker 3: guys started being eligible for the Hall of Fame. And
Speaker 3: we're in our meetings. I've nominated Russ Francis a couple
Speaker 3: of times. I mean, averaging like sixteen yards of catch, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, and I'm just an insane total for a
Speaker 3: tight end, especially in that era, as Ernie said, with
Speaker 3: such a running team, really could I mean, I know
Speaker 3: Howard Cosell always said it. He has his little pithy
Speaker 3: little phrases, but there's my old world tight end, that's
Speaker 3: what he was.
Speaker 2: He could do it all, no question. I mean, we
Speaker 2: you know, are probably our featured player was running the
Speaker 2: ball off tackle. I mean we had Rush Francis doubling down,
Speaker 2: a double team, Sam Cunningham kicking out and John Hannah
Speaker 2: leading and we're good backs, but they just had, you know,
Speaker 2: realistic at the back, just had to get the ball followed.
Speaker 1: Job, right, Ernie, Because you know, you've your career has
Speaker 1: spended so much time and the game has chased so
Speaker 1: much I'm interested in one.
Speaker 2: You mean half a centuries a long time.
Speaker 1: There's a long time when you're sitting in meetings and
Speaker 1: in that seventies team, and you guys are sitting down,
Speaker 1: can you recall a player, a couple of players. Will
Speaker 1: you guys sit around as you're trying to game plan
Speaker 1: and go, this guy's a game wrecker. I don't know
Speaker 1: how we're going to be able to tend with him.
Speaker 1: Who's the guy that caused coaching your coaching staff fits
Speaker 1: back in that day?
Speaker 2: Oh boy? Well ahead, Uh you could say our last
Speaker 2: year in seventy eight playing in the Houston Oilers, Earl Campbell.
Speaker 2: Uh No, that he was a was a game wrecker.
Speaker 2: I mean my first year in nineteen seventy five going
Speaker 2: out to play the Bengals had Isaac Curtis wide receiver
Speaker 2: with Kenny Anderson throwing him the ball. I mean we
Speaker 2: geared a lot of things to stopping to stopping him.
Speaker 2: You play the Raiders, I mean he had now Dave
Speaker 2: Casper was another tight end who was a real problem
Speaker 2: to play against. I mean those there were you know
Speaker 2: we played the Steelers you mentioned beat We beat him
Speaker 2: in seventy six. I mean they had Stan and Lynn
Speaker 2: Swann and John Stalwarth at wide receiver, and of course
Speaker 2: the defense. I mean you got Jack Ham, Joe Green,
Speaker 2: Jack Lambert, Andy Russell was the third linebacker who would
Speaker 2: be he would be a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate,
Speaker 2: with you know, Blunt and Mike Wagner in the secondary.
Speaker 2: I mean, that was that was a great, you know,
Speaker 2: a great team to play against.
Speaker 1: And we people talk about we use the word dynasty
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, and how much it is. And
Speaker 1: here's the Steelers. There's no free agency back in the day,
Speaker 1: you know, and the fact that they that team could
Speaker 1: run out You're just going through some of the names.
Speaker 1: I don't know that younger Patriot fans can appreciate how
Speaker 1: good that team was and how good that organization was
Speaker 1: at that at that time, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean you're talking about winning, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: winning winning four Super Bowls in six years. I mean
Speaker 2: it was still I mean, to win the championship of
Speaker 2: the National Football League, you got to beat everybody else
Speaker 2: in the league. I mean, that part of it hasn't
Speaker 2: you know, hasn't changed.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And they were, you know, and even the team we
Speaker 2: beaten seventy six. Who did you know I did not
Speaker 2: go on the Super Bowl. I mean, that's why they're mean.
Speaker 2: They had some injuries, but I mean the Steeler defense
Speaker 2: that year, I mean, it was just that's that's what
Speaker 2: they get. That was the year I think they came
Speaker 2: up with the name of steel Curtain and that's about
Speaker 2: what it was.
Speaker 1: Should you have did the did Chuck leaving in seventy eight?
Speaker 1: Did that? Did that derail the seventy eighteam.
Speaker 2: At the end, it's well it didn't. It certainly didn't help.
Speaker 2: You know, when you have you a championship team, when
Speaker 2: you get on a run, you got everybody totally focused
Speaker 2: the zero it in every day nothing, You're not letting
Speaker 2: anything else distract you. And then you get to the
Speaker 2: end of the season, Oh, the head coaches leaving, Well
Speaker 2: that kind of everybody, whoa, wait, what's what's going on here?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's absolutely never a good thing. And
Speaker 2: of course, our last the last regular season game when
Speaker 2: it all came out, was Monday night down in the
Speaker 2: Orange Bowl, and we had the scene where Chuck told
Speaker 2: the team in the afternoon he was going to University
Speaker 2: of Colorado. Billy Sullivan came in into the locker room
Speaker 2: and he was going to suspend Shock. What Chuck could
Speaker 2: talk to is any who said you do not resign,
Speaker 2: make them fire you. So he had the back and forth.
Speaker 2: Billy said, you're suspended the head coach going, does that
Speaker 2: mean I'm fired? No, you suspended in the locker room
Speaker 2: before they and then of.
Speaker 3: Course this is what we dealt with in our childhood.
Speaker 2: And then of course the the unfortunate pictures. You got
Speaker 2: Chuck walking walking on the Orange Bowl in the middle
Speaker 2: of the second quarter, carrying, you know, carrying his bag,
Speaker 2: and then he came back for the for the playoff game,
Speaker 2: and of course Steve Grogan got hurt in the playoff game.
Speaker 2: So I mean that, I mean that was that our
Speaker 2: seventy eight team in the middle of the season. We
Speaker 2: could play with anybody, but you know, that was probably
Speaker 2: too much for for anybody to over Complus, we ended
Speaker 2: up playing the Oilers with Earld Campbell.
Speaker 1: And good parlor game. Who's a better team, Earnie, the
Speaker 1: seventy eight team or the seventy sixteen.
Speaker 2: You know, I must say probably the seventy eight team
Speaker 2: because we had on seventy eight instead of having a
Speaker 2: Steve Grogan being a rookie quarterback. He was his third year.
Speaker 2: We had Stanley Morgan and Harold Jackson at receiver, which
Speaker 2: we were a little more explosive on offense in seventy eight.
Speaker 2: Of course, the seventy sixteen was the one that you know,
Speaker 2: in the end, it was closest to winning a championship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree, though seventy eight, I think they
Speaker 3: had more ams, probably with the ownership, and there was
Speaker 3: more animosity at that time because those guys have been
Speaker 3: around a few years and we're kind of tired of
Speaker 3: the way they would try to know. It seemed like
Speaker 3: someone was holding out every training camp. It was tough
Speaker 3: as a ten year old kid, it was tough to
Speaker 3: read about the team at that time because of all
Speaker 3: those off field things, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I give tremendous credit
Speaker 2: to Billy Sullivan for keeping professional starting professional football in Boston,
Speaker 2: you know, getting a team belt. But it was I mean,
Speaker 2: the organization was realistically being run on our shoe.
Speaker 3: String, and everybody that was involved at the time says
Speaker 3: it exactly the way already just did, right, you know,
Speaker 3: it was a tremendous passion that Billy Sullivan had, and
Speaker 3: it was a lot like Robert. He was a fan first,
Speaker 3: like he wanted football to succeed here. He just didn't
Speaker 3: have the resources to do it the right.
Speaker 2: Way, right.
Speaker 1: And so then you go Ernie and you get to
Speaker 1: a couple of places that maybe do do it the
Speaker 1: right way. You know, you see how it's run in
Speaker 1: New York, and you see how it's run in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: and those are two premier NFL franchises.
Speaker 2: Well, when we got to the when we got to
Speaker 2: the to the Giants in nineteen seventy nine, and of
Speaker 2: course Ray Perkins was became the head coach, who had
Speaker 2: been the receiver coach here on Check Fairbanks's staff from
Speaker 2: seventy five through seventy seven. But they were coming off
Speaker 2: the Herman Edwards recovery of the Joe Bizzar Chick fumble.
Speaker 2: You know, they'd had the airplane fly over Giants stadium.
Speaker 2: Fifteen years of lousy football. We've had enough, And I said,
Speaker 2: when we got to the Giants, if you remember the
Speaker 2: old television show F Troop, this was like taking over
Speaker 2: F Troop. I mean it was a we had a
Speaker 2: few good young defensive players but the organization was was
Speaker 2: mired back in the nineteen forties someplace, And of course
Speaker 2: he talked about ownership. I mean he had Wellington Mara
Speaker 2: and Tim Mather, Tim Marra that was an uncle and
Speaker 2: nephew who it was a fifty to fifty split, and
Speaker 2: the tour. They just lived in different worlds basically. So
Speaker 2: the commissioner, Pete Roselle, basically he went out and found
Speaker 2: George Young who was at the Miami Dolphins, and he
Speaker 2: told the marriage, look, you're going to hire George Young
Speaker 2: as the general manager and just signed the team over
Speaker 2: to him, which is which is what happened. But that
Speaker 2: was But you say, yeah, the Giants, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: in New York. It's a classy operation. But going in
Speaker 2: there in the spring of nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1: That's good to know.
Speaker 2: We had a long way to go.
Speaker 1: Okay. So then, so let's fast forward a little bit.
Speaker 1: Was the organization the team wasn't very good when Bill
Speaker 1: called you in two thousand and said I'm going to
Speaker 1: New England. Let's go to New England. It wasn't the
Speaker 1: f troop at that point in time. But your financials
Speaker 1: from a salary cap were a mess, right, Like the
Speaker 1: football team wasn't in great shape at.
Speaker 2: That point, right, No, it was, we had I mean,
Speaker 2: we had some work to do, and that for that
Speaker 2: first season was certainly frustrating. I mean it took basically
Speaker 2: a whole year to get everybody on the same page.
Speaker 2: And then of course, going into two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: we did a great job with you know, being going
Speaker 2: signs for free you know, signs for free agency. You know,
Speaker 2: like Mike Crable brought some guys in for you know
Speaker 2: who Bill and known at the Jets, like you know,
Speaker 2: Fifer and just had a I mean that that made
Speaker 2: a huge difference. And then, of course, I mean everybody
Speaker 2: knows in the second game Drew got hurt and Tom
Speaker 2: came in playing quarterback and that, uh, I mean everything,
Speaker 2: I mean everything jelled, But it was I mean if
Speaker 2: that old one team, I mean we got playing really
Speaker 2: well at the end, and obviously we won the championship.
Speaker 2: I mean we weren't really a juggernaut at that stage.
Speaker 2: I mean, I tell people, I mean in the two
Speaker 2: thousand and one team, we were just a little engine
Speaker 2: that could. I mean, this is like fifteen years before
Speaker 2: we became the Evil Empire. I mean we were, I mean,
Speaker 2: we were just some guys going out there. And the
Speaker 2: one I remember was we went out and we played
Speaker 2: played the Colts in Indianapolis, and that was where David
Speaker 2: Patton had the they threw for a touchdown, Ram for
Speaker 2: a touchdown, and Conda Testown when he threw the touch
Speaker 2: up ass the annoysious commentaries who are these guys? And
Speaker 2: that that's where we were in two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: Who who I mean? I'm John Madden broadcast in the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl. I thought, oh, this poor Patriots having to
Speaker 2: go up against the Ram. I mean, that was I mean,
Speaker 2: and that's part of what made that a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: Can you think back to your mindset heading into the
Speaker 3: season in two thousand and one. Obviously no one could
Speaker 3: have envisioned going down and Tom, but was their optimism
Speaker 3: like that? You would you know, like as Matt said,
Speaker 3: you sort of got the house in order a little,
Speaker 3: You got all those free agents in How good did
Speaker 3: you think you might be able to?
Speaker 2: I just wanted to see this make some progress. That
Speaker 2: was really you know, you know, come on, we went
Speaker 2: to a stay string of games in two in the
Speaker 2: first year two thousand where we got a head of
Speaker 2: teams and lost at the end. So you're losing games.
Speaker 2: But at least, as.
Speaker 3: It was, it was a much more competitive team than people.
Speaker 2: Remember, at least we were getting ahead of people. So
Speaker 2: I mean, I was I was hoping we would we
Speaker 2: would make progress. I mean, we had a lot of
Speaker 2: things come together. But remember after after week eleven, we
Speaker 2: were six and five, and of course the the last
Speaker 2: game we lost was again there was the Sunday which
Speaker 2: in reality that that had a huge part in beating
Speaker 2: the Rams in the Super Bowl because we we'd gone
Speaker 2: up against them, we had we had a bit of
Speaker 2: a feel for them, and we knew we were going
Speaker 2: to have to make some changes when we when we
Speaker 2: got to play them in the Super Bowl, Whereas the
Speaker 2: Rams kind of came in and went with the same
Speaker 2: uh to Elijah extent, the same plan they had the
Speaker 2: first game. But truthfully, had we not played them, it
Speaker 2: would have been harder to beat them in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. So is the is the game in the
Speaker 1: regular season where you and Bill kind of looked at
Speaker 1: Falk and said, this is the guy.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what everything revolved, right, Well, there were
Speaker 2: some you know some other things, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: just the whole way we played the game on the
Speaker 2: particularly on defense. You know, we were trying to do
Speaker 2: some zone blitzers, which we weren't very successful with. So
Speaker 2: we really said, hey, we are not going to you know,
Speaker 2: we've played them once, We've got a little better feel
Speaker 2: for him. We're not going to just go repeat what
Speaker 2: we did. Uh, And they were truthfully, I I I
Speaker 2: know that the Rams absolutely knew they were playing the
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Steelers and there's only one week, so you know,
Speaker 2: to get ready for that game. So that was the
Speaker 2: whole a lot of the things in the preparation or
Speaker 2: advantage Josh, and believe me, we needed every advantage we
Speaker 2: could get to beat that team. I mean that that
Speaker 2: was a real good Rams seam on both sides of the.
Speaker 1: Ball that one week, because you know, that hadn't happened
Speaker 1: in years, you know, and that was a big deal
Speaker 1: because of nine to eleven. Asking if because you're saying
Speaker 1: that the fact that you played him in the regular season,
Speaker 1: it's not a completely different opponent. You know what you
Speaker 1: did wrong, Well, we can't do this again, or it's
Speaker 1: going to be a smoke show. You know, did that
Speaker 1: help because you had such a condensed period of time
Speaker 1: to prepare?
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, I mean we had I mean,
Speaker 2: we've we played. We played the AFC Championship game against
Speaker 2: the Steelers on Sunday afternoon. We get back in and
Speaker 2: we're gonna the buses leaven to go to the ones
Speaker 2: at remember it. Well, yeah, right, that's kind that's called
Speaker 2: a fast turnaround. And basically we did. You know, we
Speaker 2: had the parameters of our strategy for the bill and
Speaker 2: I mapped out on that plane. So and we had, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, here we are, We're going to do what
Speaker 2: we think we can do best. We just we'll go
Speaker 2: with it and let's see see what happens. And we
Speaker 2: had a great week of practice down in New Orleans,
Speaker 2: man everything, you know, for the first fifteen minutes of
Speaker 2: the game, we threw a shout out at them.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the idea of being the little engine that
Speaker 1: could versus fifteen years later and you're the evil Empire.
Speaker 1: Is it more fun being the little engine that could?
Speaker 2: Ah? Well, you can only be the little engine that
Speaker 2: could once. Okay, I mean if you if you're going
Speaker 2: to actually go out and repeat, you know, you can't
Speaker 2: say as much as I would like to you, oh yeah, Yo,
Speaker 2: we've won five super Bowls, but we're really just no, no, no.
Speaker 2: Right at such stage, you know that that becomes unbelievable.
Speaker 3: So but I think I wanted to ask a little
Speaker 3: bit about you had mentioned on that plane ride. You know,
Speaker 3: you and Bill sat down. That's basically where you got
Speaker 3: the parameters. You're famous for being the guy that Bill.
Speaker 3: You know, there's times where Bill says, Okay, I don't
Speaker 3: need to hear from anybody. I'm just talking to Ernie
Speaker 3: during games. You know, what is it exactly?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: Is it strategy? Is it clock management?
Speaker 2: Or you know, could be anything above. And when I
Speaker 2: mentioned you know that this goes back to nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2: I mean we've been having a football company.
Speaker 3: We've been fascinating.
Speaker 2: We've been having a football conversation for fifty years. I mean,
Speaker 2: we were you know, you know, at the Giants. We
Speaker 2: go for long runs together, you know, I mean we've
Speaker 2: gone through and sometimes you know, because we can do
Speaker 2: we can do a lot of things very quickly, you know,
Speaker 2: because we have some common reference points. You know, something
Speaker 2: happened in Cleveland nineteen ninety three, nobody else on the
Speaker 2: face of planet Earth will remember about you know, Bill,
Speaker 2: you remember what we did in Cleveland, and this really
Speaker 2: worked in this situation. And you know, we can make
Speaker 2: big changes in a hurry because we spent so much
Speaker 2: time talking to you know, we know what we know
Speaker 2: what each other is talking about.
Speaker 1: So we're going to put you on the tea here, okay,
Speaker 1: because you related this story to me about a Giants
Speaker 1: game against the Rams, and I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was seventy nine or eight eighty one, eighty one, sorry,
Speaker 1: and how that relates to one of the most famous
Speaker 1: games and one of the most famous plays in Patriot history.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, we were the nineteen eighty one Giants. I mean,
Speaker 2: we'd come off a bad year in nineteen eighty We
Speaker 2: were four and twelve. We had the second pick in
Speaker 2: the draft where we took Lawrence Taylor. That was I mean,
Speaker 2: that was a difference maker for that franchise. But we
Speaker 2: were we were six and seven, and we kind of
Speaker 2: knew that well, if we were going to the playoffs,
Speaker 2: we were going to have to win win three in
Speaker 2: a row. We were playing, you know, a good Rams
Speaker 2: team who had I mean they had played the Steelers
Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl. Very very close game, but I
Speaker 2: think they're actually ahead of the Steelers in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 2: and we were in a tight game of them, and
Speaker 2: we were in a fourth and one situation out in
Speaker 2: the field, and normally out in the field you don't
Speaker 2: want to play goal line defense because they if the
Speaker 2: other team breaks through, there's nobody left and it could
Speaker 2: be a long run for a touchdown. Well, we're fourth
Speaker 2: to one and build ourselves. That was his first year
Speaker 2: as our defensive coordinator to the Giants, and really, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter whether they break an eighty yard touch wherever
Speaker 2: the ball was on the fifty yard touchdown or a
Speaker 2: one yard gain. If they get the first down, the
Speaker 2: game's over. So in that situation, going goal line is
Speaker 2: the thing to do. Get everybody close to the ball
Speaker 2: and make sure they don't get a yard. And if
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, really, if the one yard
Speaker 2: of fifty yards doesn't make a difference, you're going to
Speaker 2: lose the game. Well, fast forward, we're in the Snow Bowl,
Speaker 2: the playoff with the Raiders after the one season, and
Speaker 2: we're fifteen to go in the game. We took our
Speaker 2: last time out the Raiders had a third and one
Speaker 2: out in the middle of the field, and it's really
Speaker 2: clear we're either going to make the stop, make get them,
Speaker 2: get them the punt and we get the ball, or
Speaker 2: if they get the first down, we have no timeouts,
Speaker 2: the game is over. And that situation was what do
Speaker 2: we want to do on defense? And that's just kind
Speaker 2: of flashed right there. Hey, there's no question we want
Speaker 2: to go goal line here. So having the conversation with
Speaker 2: Bill and Romeo Cornell and I tried, I try to
Speaker 2: stay off the I have a button on my I
Speaker 2: had a button on my phone I could push allowed
Speaker 2: me to talk. Well, you don't want to eight people
Speaker 2: talking on the line at once, so really I kept
Speaker 2: my voice off, and that was something I had to say,
Speaker 2: but I said, hey, I think we want to go
Speaker 2: goal line here. Of course Bill and Romeo, who had
Speaker 2: both been there for that, I don't know if they
Speaker 2: thought of that, rams came but there, Hey, that's it.
Speaker 2: Let's let's go with it, and we put our goal
Speaker 2: line defense in which the ram the Raiders, excuse me,
Speaker 2: we're not really ready for. In a third and one
Speaker 2: situation out in the field, Richard Seymour made a big play.
Speaker 2: We made him punt, you know, and that and then
Speaker 2: that led to all the fun. But you know that
Speaker 2: was you know, when you've been through a critical situation,
Speaker 2: what you know, I mean, it's kind of say, hey,
Speaker 2: I mean I have thought of this play in ten years,
Speaker 2: but this is this is probably what we need to do.
Speaker 1: So that verbal shorthand, which comes with a fifty year relationship, right,
Speaker 1: the fact that you can finish his sentence and vice versa, right,
Speaker 1: that's where it becomes so valuable. It's not cutting time.
Speaker 1: You don't need to hear from fifteen people about what's
Speaker 1: going on and this is what.
Speaker 2: We need and you don't have time to you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, this is you know, it's the ball is
Speaker 2: going to be snapped there in about twenty five seconds.
Speaker 2: You don't have time for, you know, a thirty minute
Speaker 2: dissertation here. You got to you know, you got to
Speaker 2: get some get something done right right now. It's not
Speaker 2: going in You're in a regular season game. You know
Speaker 2: you're going in halftime. Well that goes so fast, I
Speaker 2: mean plays, you know, they got to go to the
Speaker 2: training room. Coaches got to get together for about two
Speaker 2: minutes decide what they're going to do you know, and
Speaker 2: then you you know, and then you have any change
Speaker 2: you want to make you do. I mean you've got
Speaker 2: to be able really to communicate and do things very quickly.
Speaker 3: Did you have a favorite team?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Out of all that you had so many teams that
Speaker 3: were successful, was there one of them that stuck out
Speaker 3: to you?
Speaker 2: Ah? Boy, hard to beat the two thousand and one team.
Speaker 2: I mean that was just uh yeah, that was so
Speaker 2: there was so much fun. I mean, we know, I
Speaker 2: like Bobby Hamilton, one of my favorite Patriots players, said,
Speaker 2: you know, hey, we shocked the world, you know, and
Speaker 2: and and we did. I remember going uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the Saturday afternoon before before the Super Bowl, we went
Speaker 2: to a you know, a hideaway hotel up by the
Speaker 2: New Orleans Airport and you know, going bay, you know,
Speaker 2: you go, but we drove out past the Supernome. I
Speaker 2: see you know, the you know, the SWAT guys who
Speaker 2: were up on the room and you know, with all
Speaker 2: you know, the security they had, you know, after nine
Speaker 2: to eleven, I mean, they were ready for anything. I
Speaker 2: mean we had where their practicident to Lane University and
Speaker 2: we got the United States Air Force going overhead with
Speaker 2: f sixties and I knew, you know, hey, can we
Speaker 2: beat the Rams? I don't know, but we're ready to
Speaker 2: give it our best shot.
Speaker 1: So after the game earning, you know, the super Bowls,
Speaker 1: you guys are in the last game, you win the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl? Did you shock the world? Did you not
Speaker 1: shock the world? At some point in time? I know
Speaker 1: that at least my experience in talking to people who
Speaker 1: do this, the train's moving. We got to get ready
Speaker 1: for the two thousand and two season. As you guys
Speaker 1: are sitting down after winning the Super Bowl and you
Speaker 1: start your organizational meetings, other people in the organization have
Speaker 1: had meetings stuff like that is they were a conversation
Speaker 1: like what just happened? And we got a lot of
Speaker 1: hole like this isn't the eighty five Bears yet we're
Speaker 1: talking about, well, you know, we got a lot of hope,
Speaker 1: but we won this. This is unbelievable. How do we now?
Speaker 1: You know, we got a lot of holes to fill here,
Speaker 1: don't you right?
Speaker 2: I mean I mean, we yeah, we were. We did
Speaker 2: not I'm sure we could probably go back and find
Speaker 2: things we wish you'd done differently, but we did. We
Speaker 2: did not compare ourselves, you know, to the uh you know,
Speaker 2: to to you know the forty, you know, the Bill
Speaker 2: Wash forty or anything like that. But you know, we've
Speaker 2: always we always did a pretty good job. Hey, we're
Speaker 2: going to start off next year zero and zero, and
Speaker 2: you know, everybody's gonna be gunning for us, and we
Speaker 2: understood what, you know, what the challenge was.
Speaker 1: Does it make it easier to do that? I mean,
Speaker 1: you won the last game, which is every team's goal.
Speaker 1: Does it make it easier to do that after say
Speaker 1: a two thousand and one year as opposed to say
Speaker 1: a two thousand and four or twenty fourteen team. You
Speaker 1: guys are really really good, and you know that you're
Speaker 1: really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think we tried to do a
Speaker 2: good job of just hey, it's a new season. Nobody, nobody,
Speaker 2: nobody's going to come in here and want to look
Speaker 2: at our scrap books. They're gonna come in here want
Speaker 2: and you know, knock our heads off. You know, we understand.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's the National Football League and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, it is a new season, so we have
Speaker 2: to It's i mean, every every season is a unique challenge.
Speaker 3: Obviously, all the playoff games and Super Bowls, and and
Speaker 3: that kind of success would stand out. But is there
Speaker 3: a game that, maybe a regular season game, that stood
Speaker 3: out to you that maybe we wouldn't just necessarily snap
Speaker 3: our finger. Oh I remember that game, but one that
Speaker 3: drew particular pride for you guys finding a way to win.
Speaker 2: Well. One of my favorites was in you know, in
Speaker 2: two thousand and three playing the Colts. I mean, we
Speaker 2: got a big lead. They they yeah, yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: remember that one. They they they.
Speaker 3: Know this is the Willie McGinnis game.
Speaker 1: Who's who's it coming back for that team? Was Mike Cloud,
Speaker 1: wasn't it?
Speaker 2: It probably was? Yeah, yeah, fake injury. Yeah. But by
Speaker 2: the end, you know, it's just coming down the one
Speaker 2: play at the end, I mean, we've been up, I hate,
Speaker 2: we've been up by thirty eighth to Tanner Shop, and
Speaker 2: they came back to me at thirty you know, Peyton
Speaker 2: Manning was tearing us up. Came down the one play
Speaker 2: they handed them off the edge and James William McGinnis
Speaker 2: hit him three yards in the backfield, and you know,
Speaker 2: we won the game. I mean, that's that's one that
Speaker 2: always kind of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a fun game and people never really
Speaker 3: think about it in these turns. But one play that
Speaker 3: you make allows that playoff game to be at home
Speaker 3: instead of on the road, because that changes the whole
Speaker 3: complexion of the records and the tie breakers and all
Speaker 3: that stuff. And people never look at it that way.
Speaker 3: But just how close and what a what a great
Speaker 3: rivalry it was with you guys. It's just tremendous to watch.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean you had I mean, look, I know
Speaker 2: when the schedule came out there was Peyton Manning and
Speaker 2: Bill Polly and they all circle the game with the Patriots. Well,
Speaker 2: I got news for you. With the schedule, I circled
Speaker 2: the game. We know everybody's going to be there. We
Speaker 2: know what it's gonna We know Dwight Freene's going to
Speaker 2: try to beat Matt White with a spin move. In
Speaker 2: the whole uh, the whole bit. We had, uh you know,
Speaker 2: some some great games against them, so you know, some
Speaker 2: we won, so you know some they won.
Speaker 1: It was a great competition, great competition. Ernie was there.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was the aha moment. And
Speaker 1: I've had a conversation with Charlie Weiss where there was
Speaker 1: something that he said that sort of he thinks clicked
Speaker 1: for him. But do you is there a moment in
Speaker 1: time when you realized, with Tom, this isn't your average,
Speaker 1: This isn't just some sort of a journey man, right,
Speaker 1: you know what, this guy might be pretty good. Nobody
Speaker 1: could figure what he's you know, what he's going on
Speaker 1: to be. But was there a time when you said,
Speaker 1: you know what, this guy might be our right, we
Speaker 1: might okay with this guy? Can you remember that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't think. I don't know that
Speaker 2: it was one specific play, But I mean as we
Speaker 2: started playing in two thousand and one, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: Tom just got got better every week. You know, the
Speaker 2: team responded well, he was you know, he was doing well.
Speaker 2: So I think I think it was more of a
Speaker 2: process rather than you know, one play.
Speaker 1: Okay, but based on that process and maybe the body
Speaker 1: of work was that, you know, certainly the team was
Speaker 1: comfortable trading Bled so the following in the offseason and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and he said, you know what, I
Speaker 1: think we're going to be all right with this guy
Speaker 1: as our quarterback going forward. That fair you saw enough
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a huge sample size, right.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I mean, being being realistic about it, we
Speaker 2: knew after the two thousand and one season, the town
Speaker 2: was going to be our quarterback. We weren't going to
Speaker 2: have Drew here as our backup. Okay, I mean that
Speaker 2: just wasn't I mean that that that realist Stickley was
Speaker 2: not going to happen.
Speaker 3: Ernie just encapsulated about six months of talk radio right
Speaker 3: right in the thirty second clip. I mean, if there
Speaker 3: was a no brainer, I know what people look at
Speaker 3: it like, oh what what gots it? Tom was the quarterback,
Speaker 3: you just won the Super Bowl. He had to be
Speaker 3: the quarterback in O two, and therefore you can't have
Speaker 3: one hundred million dollar backup looming over his shoulder. And
Speaker 3: that's why, like for me, the one game for me
Speaker 3: for Tom and one because I was a big Drew guy,
Speaker 3: truth be told, I loved the guy and I thought
Speaker 3: he was a pretty good quarterback, obviously not anywhere near
Speaker 3: what Tom has been. But the New Orleans game in
Speaker 3: you know, in Foxborough in the rain was around the
Speaker 3: time that Drew had come back. It may have been
Speaker 3: the week after the Rams game. Drew was getting some
Speaker 3: starting to get some reps in practice, and there was
Speaker 3: some you know, bickering about how much he was getting
Speaker 3: ready and you know, this was the time where a
Speaker 3: kid might be looking over his shoulder, and he responded
Speaker 3: with a four touchdown game. He played as well in
Speaker 3: that game. I think he played in any of him.
Speaker 3: It wasn't one of those We'll be handed off to
Speaker 3: Antoine Smith thirty seven times and they won the game
Speaker 3: because they won thirteen to ten. Tom lit it up,
Speaker 3: and that to me, I was like, whoa, this kid's
Speaker 3: better than I thought.
Speaker 2: No question. That was a big, big offensive.
Speaker 3: Day for And that was the day that I said,
Speaker 3: that was the day that I said that Tru's got
Speaker 3: to go. As much as I loved Thru, I did, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean it was just not there was no
Speaker 2: way that, like say, there's no way that trade wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Right, and we broken on Patriots dot.
Speaker 1: Ernie. You saw him as part of something with the Giants.
Speaker 1: He goes to Cleveland, he builds something in Cleveland. But
Speaker 1: this idea of building a culture and a culture that's
Speaker 1: now well into its twenty something year and something like that,
Speaker 1: what's the secret or is there a secret in getting
Speaker 1: everybody on the same page and checking your ego at
Speaker 1: the door and doing what's best for the team. Is
Speaker 1: that the secret to try to longevity.
Speaker 2: That it's it's it's just take it one day at
Speaker 2: a time, get better every day.
Speaker 1: But that's so easy to say.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to do. It's so hard to do.
Speaker 2: But you just, you know, we keep hammering it and
Speaker 2: you get, you know, you get you get some players
Speaker 2: who have success with it, and then they start to
Speaker 2: buy in so that when a new guy comes in,
Speaker 2: the veteran player can come and go put his arm
Speaker 2: around the new guys. Hey, look, buddy, this is the
Speaker 2: way it works around here. And some people who come
Speaker 2: in from outside, uh can take it. And some, you know, some,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, looks, I didn't know he
Speaker 2: really worked this hard. I'm not sure this is uh,
Speaker 2: this is free. I mean it's I always say if
Speaker 2: you're if you're just into winning football games, then New
Speaker 2: England Place is the place to be. If you've got
Speaker 2: other things on your on your agenda, it's probably you're
Speaker 2: probably not gonna like it.
Speaker 1: Very much, right And and I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is fear or not bring up the name or something
Speaker 1: like that, but Patriots fans were enamored by a guy
Speaker 1: in the great cult rivalry, Jonas Gray two hundred yards,
Speaker 1: you know, and look at look at this guy and
Speaker 1: everything like that, and they just found somebody else the
Speaker 1: next week or the week after that. It's this is
Speaker 1: what it takes to sustain the program. And you either
Speaker 1: jump on board or you don't jump on board. I
Speaker 1: don't know how great an example that is. I just
Speaker 1: think of somebody who flashed, you know, But the program
Speaker 1: isn't about somebody who flashes. It's about the team.
Speaker 2: It's about the team and showing up every day. And
Speaker 2: football football is a messy game. This is not figure skating.
Speaker 2: There are no style points. Things don't always work right.
Speaker 2: But it's just showing up every day, trying to learn
Speaker 2: from your mistakes, get better every day, help the guy
Speaker 2: next to you. I mean, it's about what it takes
Speaker 2: to be really successful in a lot of businesses.
Speaker 3: Thinking of the game itself, though we talked a little
Speaker 3: bit earlier about you know, the seventies and now and
Speaker 3: even the way the game has changed even more recently
Speaker 3: ten years ago. What are your thoughts on on the
Speaker 3: way the game has played today, and do you like it?
Speaker 3: Nor is it more skill based, you know, maybe some
Speaker 3: speed or did you kind of like the physicality?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, one thing of course we got you know,
Speaker 2: we played with you know, Tom Brady and every oh
Speaker 2: it's Tom Brady throwing the ball. But we were always
Speaker 2: a very physical running team. Okay, even though we were
Speaker 2: spread out and we could we could throw the ball,
Speaker 2: we also could hand the ball off and pound it.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I don't think I think you know,
Speaker 2: to be able to win today's football, I mean, there
Speaker 2: are multi more wide receivers on the field, so it's
Speaker 2: nickel defense on the field that's more spread out. But
Speaker 2: there are times when you've got to be able to
Speaker 2: come off the ball and run it. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you're if you really want to be good, I mean,
Speaker 2: and it's you, yeah, you you can go. You you
Speaker 2: can have a ten win season just you know, throwing
Speaker 2: the ball. But if you really, if you really want to,
Speaker 2: you know, end up being you know, playing being one
Speaker 2: of the final four. It's really hard to do without
Speaker 2: being able to be physical.
Speaker 1: And does that physicality start on the offensive line.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely if you have a soft offensive line, you're
Speaker 2: not going anywhere because soft offensive line is not gonna
Speaker 2: be a real good pass protecting offensive.
Speaker 3: Line, right, So I saved my toughest one for last.
Speaker 3: So you spanned a lot of eras of Patriots, Football,
Speaker 3: pat Patriot or Elvis.
Speaker 2: Pat Patriot every time.
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, you're not alone. We get a lot of it.
Speaker 2: I mean because I go back Hey, I mean I do,
Speaker 2: I go back to I never went to a game
Speaker 2: of Brave Field. I wasn't Friday Nights of f Park.
Speaker 2: I mean I thought that was you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: that was pat Patriot. That that said, that's that's Boston,
Speaker 2: that's New England. That's for me.
Speaker 3: Every time I hear my first game, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to give Earning a chance to show up because he
Speaker 3: has no idea what the game is going to be.
Speaker 3: At seventy six, it was a Monday night game against
Speaker 3: the Jets. First game.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and of course we started putting
Speaker 2: men in motion. They had no clue, so it was
Speaker 2: the game was a massacre. And what I fortunately remember
Speaker 2: was at Shaeffer Stadium because it was right near our offices.
Speaker 2: The the officers of the law had some.
Speaker 3: Had show I learned some stuff that night. Doesn't need
Speaker 3: your old honey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So what the cops say. All they could
Speaker 2: do was hand cuff them to the lead fast and well,
Speaker 2: let me, I'll show you. I'll show you to take
Speaker 2: his heads off me. And it was really right by
Speaker 2: the door that we all came on.
Speaker 3: It was an amazing sight. My father, grandfather and uncle
Speaker 3: took me and they literally made a triangle around me
Speaker 3: and we're walking out and they're like, just keep going
Speaker 3: this way, not don't worry about that over there straight ahead.
Speaker 3: They didn't want me to see any of this. There
Speaker 3: was literally hundreds of people like handcuffs, chain link fence.
Speaker 1: Did Grogan score on a bootleg in that game?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like forty yards long long touchdown, right right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Forty one to seven?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah. Ernie. As a kid, as you said,
Speaker 1: you went to the Dexter School, you grew up around here.
Speaker 1: You've experienced the NFL in a couple of different places.
Speaker 1: But to be able to be with your hometown team
Speaker 1: and and have the success that you had, you know, Bill, always,
Speaker 1: as you've talked about, it's the next practice, it's the
Speaker 1: next game. But now that you are retired, can you
Speaker 1: look back at it and go, holy smokes, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Absolutely sure, I mean I.
Speaker 1: And is it fun for you to do that? Do
Speaker 1: you take a sort of pride.
Speaker 2: Out of it?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I've got every you know, every
Speaker 2: every year, you know, you win the Super Bowl, they
Speaker 2: do a special issue of Sports Illustrated. Man, I've got
Speaker 2: all the issues that we won there. I've got them
Speaker 2: all signed, you know, by every by everybody who's on there.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got them all up, you know, all
Speaker 2: my well, sure, I mean, I know, I know. Even
Speaker 2: though when you're in it, it's hey, let's get ready
Speaker 2: for the next practice. Let's run the ball off tackle better?
Speaker 2: Sure you shit back there? You know, Hey we had
Speaker 2: you know, one of the great maybe the the greatest
Speaker 2: run in the history of the national football That's a
Speaker 2: big deal.
Speaker 1: It is a big deal and and easy for us
Speaker 1: to say on the outside, but you never say never.
Speaker 1: But that kind of level of success and sustainability, you
Speaker 1: don't replicate that. You've seen too much of it. There
Speaker 1: are too many, too too many good teams, too many
Speaker 1: smart people, too many good players. Right, it's really hard.
Speaker 2: To really look. Winning at once is really hard. We're
Speaker 2: doing it repeatedly. Is you know it's a it's a
Speaker 2: phenomenal accomplishment. But again, the biggest thing was when you're
Speaker 2: doing it, you're just thinking about, hey, the next play,
Speaker 2: next game. Let's just you know, it's one game. And
Speaker 2: you know, I know people say, oh, it's coach Stock
Speaker 2: one game at a time, but it's the key to
Speaker 2: success in getting people to believe it is the key
Speaker 2: is the key to success.
Speaker 1: But Paul asked you a question about one and is
Speaker 1: this is this also part of the key Ernie where
Speaker 1: he said did you have any expectations in one? And
Speaker 1: you answered, I wanted to see progress? Is that kind
Speaker 1: of the key for your team, whether you're twelve and
Speaker 1: four or four and twelve? Can we just make progress?
Speaker 2: Right? Can we get Can we when we're going out
Speaker 2: to practice and training camp? We're a better football team
Speaker 2: when we come off the field than when we went
Speaker 2: on it. Now, look, I understand if you're if you're
Speaker 2: going into if you're going in coaching this year at
Speaker 2: the Jacksonville Jaguars, you have you are truly just hoping
Speaker 2: to get better because you know you have to get
Speaker 2: a little bit better. You know you have a long
Speaker 2: way to go. Whereas there were you know some of
Speaker 2: our teams would pay for you. I knew, Hey, realistically
Speaker 2: we should be able to compete with everybody in the league.
Speaker 2: But you're still It's still you go every day trying
Speaker 2: to get better. That's why you know, I see the
Speaker 2: big picture you got right behind you. You know number
Speaker 2: twelve throwing the ball. That's why he you know, he
Speaker 2: would jump on a receiver for cutting his road off
Speaker 2: at nine yards instead of twelve yards. Because it's doing
Speaker 2: it's all the little things. It's all the details. Every
Speaker 2: day you have to do it and get it right
Speaker 2: because when you get down to those critical situations in
Speaker 2: the championship game where you know you got the whole
Speaker 2: season's riding now one play, it's the ability to execute
Speaker 2: the fundamentals just right that makes the difference.
Speaker 1: So on that note, and you mentioned twelve throwing the ball.
Speaker 1: Twelve goes down in the first quarter in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, Okay, you're a team that had were a
Speaker 1: series away from going nineteen and oh you've got a
Speaker 1: really good team still coming back. That team can go
Speaker 1: down the toilet pretty quickly, even though you still had
Speaker 1: a pretty good group of guys around you. I'm not saying,
Speaker 1: you guys are popping champagne after eleven and five and
Speaker 1: that windy game in Buffalo to end the season, But
Speaker 1: is there a sense of pride, like, you know what,
Speaker 1: we didn't go down the toilet. We did kind of
Speaker 1: keep our head above water, and we salvage something with
Speaker 1: what we were doing, and maybe we did improve by
Speaker 1: the end of the year.
Speaker 2: You know. I that's I expect us to play that way. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's not. I mean, it's what you know, It's it's
Speaker 2: what we do. I mean, going out doing our best
Speaker 2: every day, trying to be competitive. I mean that's uh,
Speaker 2: you know, that's nothing to me, nothing special about that,
Speaker 2: because it's it's the way we approached every every year,
Speaker 2: every game, every practice, you know, every play.
Speaker 1: So maybe does that validate it? Yeah, that's why we
Speaker 1: do this. That's why we do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, I mean we're going you know, you
Speaker 2: you know, in the National Football League, you're gonna go
Speaker 2: out on Sunday, You're gonna have millions of people watching. Uh.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's always in the back of your mind.
Speaker 2: And we we're gonna have a team playing against us
Speaker 2: that's gonna be doing everything they can to beat us.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just you know, the competitive part of
Speaker 2: the game.
Speaker 1: His name is Ernie Adams. Ernie tremendous stuff as usual.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate you taking the time to join us and
Speaker 1: uh continued enjoyment in your non football days as.
Speaker 2: You enjoy retirement.
Speaker 3: Thanks for coming down.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Vent a pleasure.
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