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Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky. Hey, jooky,

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Speaker 1: I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way. Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, Hey, I ghosted I gos Nandaz Police. Hey boo,

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Speaker 1: it's me Raz and welcome to Ghosted by Raz Hernandez,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where I talk to people that I like

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Speaker 1: about the paranormal. Oh my god. The guest on the

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Speaker 1: show today, David. That's Mulchin. He is incredible. Okay. I

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Speaker 1: was recommended him by multiple sources whose taste I trust,

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Speaker 1: and I've known about him. I've never met him before,

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Speaker 1: but he's constantly in movies and TV shows. And then

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Speaker 1: I saw his recent film Late Night with the Devil,

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Speaker 1: which is so fun and different and it's just a

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Speaker 1: cool movie and he's the star of it, and I

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Speaker 1: just get so excited about people doing new, different kinds

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Speaker 1: of things and it's very retro and it's just cool.

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Speaker 1: So check it out if you haven't seen it and

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Speaker 1: you're into horror movies.

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Speaker 2: Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Turns out, yes, amazing guest for this podcast, so you

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Speaker 1: will see that in just a moment. Let me read

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Speaker 1: your story first. This one's from Jennifer, who writes, I

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Speaker 1: moved into my current apartment in October of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: It's a former hotel from the nineteen twenties. I live

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Speaker 1: toward the back of the building and moving in. I

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Speaker 1: was going in and out moving and I noticed a

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Speaker 1: black veil like wavy shape at the top of the stairwell.

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Speaker 1: I'm on the top floor. I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: reflection or my hair in my eyes. I dismissed it.

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Speaker 1: I love that you brought this up because as a

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Speaker 1: owner of a set of bangs on my forehead, this

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Speaker 1: happens to me constantly where I'm like, was that some

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Speaker 1: kind of ghost or was it? Do I need a

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Speaker 1: trim Okay, So the next day I see it again.

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Speaker 1: I dismissed it. The third day, I stood and watched

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Speaker 1: it moving, then it disappeared into the ceiling. I went

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Speaker 1: to my friend's house and I was like, I know

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Speaker 1: it was something because I had been telling him about it.

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Speaker 1: Later on, I had a friend come over to help

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Speaker 1: me hook up my cable. We were leaving and walking

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Speaker 1: down the hallway to the elevator like those old pull

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Speaker 1: accordion door ones.

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Speaker 2: I hate those.

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Speaker 1: My friend says, hey, you have shadow people here, and

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Speaker 1: I stop dead. My head had been down and I

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Speaker 1: missed it. He said that it walked from the elevator

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Speaker 1: to the stairwell. Now I hadn't told this guy anything

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Speaker 1: about what I had seen earlier. Later on, I would

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Speaker 1: see stuff out of the corner of my eye, always

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Speaker 1: in the hallway. Though. One day, going in my door,

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Speaker 1: I look back to the stairwell and it looks like

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Speaker 1: something is walking through it, like the lower half of

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Speaker 1: a leg I saw. Next month, I have a friend

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Speaker 1: over for Thanksgiving. I go down the back stairwell to

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Speaker 1: let him in. A neighbor is coming in as well.

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Speaker 1: I say Happy Thanksgiving and all of that, and I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you notice anything weird in the building? And I

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Speaker 1: don't mean the people who live here. Now, I had

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Speaker 1: talked to this neighbor before and we always had a

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Speaker 1: jokey interaction, so to ask him with familiarity wouldn't be weird.

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Speaker 1: He says, oh, you mean that black thing at the

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Speaker 1: top of the hallway. I was floored. I built an

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Speaker 1: altar in my apartment and I have the Eye of

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Speaker 1: Hamsa hanging on the wall across it. I had gone

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Speaker 1: into my doorway and I said, I get it. You're here,

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Speaker 1: please do not come in here. Thank you. A little

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Speaker 1: while later, like a week or so, I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: my chair reading and it just feels lighter, the room,

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Speaker 1: the air, it felt lighter, and I said thank you

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Speaker 1: out loud. I hadn't really seen anything since. I think

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Speaker 1: I see things in the back stairwell near my door

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Speaker 1: out of the corner of my eye, but nothing as

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Speaker 1: in your face as before. Okay, well, I'm glad that

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Speaker 1: that works for you, because you know of at least

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Speaker 1: two other people that have also seen this thing in

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Speaker 1: your hallway, so we know it's not your bangs. Very validating.

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Speaker 1: I love a shade ghost that also is respectful of boundaries. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's talk to you the iconic David DEAs Mulchin and

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Speaker 1: with the show Oh my God. I am enjoined today

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Speaker 1: by David Dysmulchin.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, it's so good to be here with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. You Okay, the first time you were

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Speaker 1: recommended to me as a guest on this show, of course,

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Speaker 1: I've known who you are for a minute, but the

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Speaker 1: first time was Paton Oswald. He's like, you gotta get

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Speaker 1: David on the show. He had a haunted doll themed

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Speaker 1: party or something like that. And then another person, mutual

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Speaker 1: friend slash former guest of this show, Brian Fuller, was

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Speaker 1: like like, have you not had David Dismalchin on the show,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I want to. And then now

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Speaker 1: it's finally happening.

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Speaker 2: It's happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're both such wonderful fellas and sweet baby Brian.

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Speaker 3: His nickname to me is Naughty Brian because we're part

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Speaker 3: of a gaming group and Naughty Brian has a really

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Speaker 3: hard time following the rules sometimes when Brian wants to

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Speaker 3: win a game and we have so much fun together.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it's interesting because I think it's the monsters

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Speaker 3: and fear of the dark things, or maybe are the

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Speaker 3: allure of the dark things that brought us together. And

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Speaker 3: now yeah, he's like a brother to me. I love

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Speaker 3: him so much.

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Speaker 1: I saw him probably like I don't know, a month

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Speaker 1: ago or something and he was like, telling me about

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Speaker 1: the advertisements you've done for a coffin company.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I've I did it at first kind of

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Speaker 3: as a bit my friend Ilan Gale, who's this mastermind

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Speaker 3: of all things. He's just an incredible human being. Shout

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Speaker 3: out elaw Elan makes unscripted television. He writes with Mike

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Speaker 3: Flanagan for his shows. He is a producer of Rockntur.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's the most knowledgeable diner I've ever known

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Speaker 3: of every restaurant.

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Speaker 2: In the world.

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Speaker 3: But Elan came to me and he said, I'm working

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Speaker 3: with this He does branding work as well as I'm

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Speaker 3: working with this company that is like kind of struggling

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Speaker 3: to get the word out there. They make and sell

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Speaker 3: caskets on the open market, and they're trying to compete

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Speaker 3: with kind of the monopoly that is being held over

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Speaker 3: the kind of funeral industry where when you know you're

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Speaker 3: in the crisis of trying to find all the necessary

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Speaker 3: elements that go along with burying someone you love, if

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Speaker 3: that's the way you choose to honor them, you're often

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Speaker 3: only presented with a very limited number of options, and

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Speaker 3: they go, well, there's the you know, if you kind

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Speaker 3: of liked your your person that died, here's a six

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars option, and if you really liked him, there's

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Speaker 3: ten thousand.

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Speaker 2: If you loved him, here's the fifteen. And it's just this.

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Speaker 3: Wildly inflated, totally monopolized market and so I said, well,

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Speaker 3: that sounds cool because the company that I that I

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Speaker 3: started working with through along Titan caskets, they were selling

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Speaker 3: them twenty five hundred three thousand dollars and they would

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Speaker 3: also ship them anywhere you needed, and they're just these wonderful,

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Speaker 3: lovely people. Well, that evolved and grew and I just

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Speaker 3: was like, it became from this like kind of silly

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Speaker 3: fun way of spreading a good word about things to me,

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Speaker 3: wanting to talk more openly and candidly and with both reverence, irreverence, humor,

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Speaker 3: and you know, somber approaches the whole notion that we're

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Speaker 3: all going. I mean, it's one of the only things

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Speaker 3: that all of us have in common. Not everybody can

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Speaker 3: claim that like everyone of us says, oh love, it

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Speaker 3: is same wepping. I don't think everybody necessarily needs to

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Speaker 3: or falls in love in this lifetime, but one thing

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Speaker 3: everybody does do is expire, and we just don't.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it.

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Speaker 3: And the people who do get out there and talk

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Speaker 3: about it tend to be really problematic. And so Elan

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Speaker 3: was like, what do you think about laying in a

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Speaker 3: casket next to another casket with one of our mutual

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Speaker 3: friends and just talking. And so we've been doing that

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Speaker 3: and it's on Instagram. It's called Grave Conversations. And maybe

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Speaker 3: you'll come be a guest with me at some point.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would be honored.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great.

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Speaker 1: I love talking about death. We talk about it all

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Speaker 1: the time here on this podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's an important conversation.

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Speaker 1: What's the the Haunted Doll? You had a party that

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Speaker 1: was Haunted Doll themed or something?

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Speaker 3: I host a gathering around Sam Hayne every year.

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Speaker 1: Are you a witch?

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Speaker 3: I kind of don't take any label. I practice an

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Speaker 3: openness to the magic of the universe, and I believe

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Speaker 3: in higher power, and I believe that like things are

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Speaker 3: conducted and exist through both manifest station of integration between

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Speaker 3: the physical and the intellectual and the spiritual realms.

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Speaker 2: Although I'm just so.

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Speaker 3: Right now, only here's the only thing I believe in

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Speaker 3: right now, at forty eight years old, after almost an

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Speaker 3: entire lifetime dedicated to trying to dissect and understand this stuff,

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Speaker 3: there's one thing I believe. There is a power that

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Speaker 3: is greater than myself that can do for me what

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Speaker 3: I cannot do for myself. That's where I've landed right now.

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Speaker 3: Do I personally believe in ghosts most of the time,

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Speaker 3: I really want to. I feel like I've had interactions

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Speaker 3: and experiences with things. Do I believe in the power

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Speaker 3: of magic the way that certain people define magic absolutely,

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Speaker 3: the way other people define it, I don't think. So

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Speaker 3: it's really interesting. It's a really beautiful complex soup, and

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Speaker 3: I think obviously we could get into this during our

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Speaker 3: conversation today. But I'm just learning so much, and I'm

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Speaker 3: surrounded by some really powerful witches and oh my god,

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Speaker 3: ritualists and even religious people. I'm kind of just observing

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Speaker 3: everybody right now and seeing how their lives are existing

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Speaker 3: and watching how incredible it is that the universe can

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Speaker 3: find such specific ways to communicate with each of us,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to like the blanket binary that I was

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Speaker 3: raised with, which was there is one way, this is

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Speaker 3: the way. If you don't do the way, then you

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Speaker 3: go that way and you better watch the f out.

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Speaker 3: Oh what a horrible way to approach the mystery of

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Speaker 3: this beautiful, incredible space that we all get to share.

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Speaker 3: So I just like, oh man, I'm doing so much

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Speaker 3: work on it. But the celebration around Halloween. As a

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Speaker 3: little boy, I had a lot of fear. It was

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Speaker 3: really scared, really kind of combative household. A lot of love,

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Speaker 3: which is confusing when there's a lot of love mixed

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Speaker 3: with a lot of like conflict and you know, emotional

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Speaker 3: psychic sometimes physical violence, but love and then really like

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Speaker 3: heavy duty dogmatic religiosity and what kind I was raised

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Speaker 3: in an intensely like evangelical community and belief system. That was,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is the way you make this allegiance

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Speaker 3: and if you don't, you burn. And to me, that

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Speaker 3: was I think the initial emotional attachment wound that I

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Speaker 3: probably suffered at the youngest age when I came to

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Speaker 3: the realization that there was this that was It wasn't

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Speaker 3: a realization I was told. I was led to believe

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Speaker 3: that there was this power that loved me so much

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Speaker 3: it would do anything for me, but if I didn't

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Speaker 3: do things the way it wanted to, or if I

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Speaker 3: failed in some way, I would be then cast into

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Speaker 3: this eternal kind of void of suffering. And I thought, what,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I was as conscious of it then

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Speaker 3: as I grew to become it was that mixed just

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Speaker 3: like a when you have parents, Like so many people,

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Speaker 3: my parents loved me, but they also absolutely emotion and

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Speaker 3: even physically abandoned me at times when I needed them

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Speaker 3: the most. And so, as a little boy, because Halloween, horror, ghosts,

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Speaker 3: and monsters, witchcraft, et cetera. Were so maligned in my household,

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Speaker 3: they were considered gateways into the path to hell, I

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Speaker 3: was always drawn to the monsters. I was always I

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Speaker 3: had this special love in my heart for the artistry,

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Speaker 3: the craftsmanship, the way that they were manifested in historical

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Speaker 3: and contemporary art and film and comic books and masks

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Speaker 3: that I would see at the woolworst of the Montgomery

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Speaker 3: Wards around Halloween time, and I started to accumulate my

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Speaker 3: own little boxes of Halloween stuff, and it was kind

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Speaker 3: of much to my family chagrin that I would like

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Speaker 3: decorate the front porch by myself and make content houses

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Speaker 3: in the basement and go on explorations. I'd read every

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Speaker 3: book at my school in public library about ghosts and

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Speaker 3: the lore of ghosts and mythology and even movie things

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Speaker 3: like those books about monsters.

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Speaker 2: In the movies. I was so into that stuff.

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Speaker 3: And then as an adult, I wonder, I've been thinking

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Speaker 3: about this a lot, like I've been writing a lot

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Speaker 3: of letters to like seven eight nine year old David

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Speaker 3: and just being like, hey, you know what's kind of cool.

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Speaker 3: I'm forty eight and I still love Halloween, and there

240
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Speaker 3: was nothing wrong with you loving that stuff. And by

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Speaker 3: the way, I throw the most kick ass party ever,

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Speaker 3: and you're with me there every year helping me decorate.

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Speaker 2: The word party.

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Speaker 3: I feel tricky, more of a celebration because I'm sober.

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Speaker 3: I serve alcohol, and you know, I always try and

246
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Speaker 3: set up a nice bar and like food and stuff.

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Speaker 3: But it's not like it's definitely not a rager. It's

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Speaker 3: not really a dance party. It's an experience where I

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Speaker 3: incorporate magic and storytelling and kind of interactive, immersive hopefully

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Speaker 3: for people.

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Speaker 2: That like that sort of thing magic.

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Speaker 3: And each year there's a different theme. We held a

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Speaker 3: really powerful stance. One year we held a really amazing

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Speaker 3: kind of interaction with ideas about uphology, and and one year,

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Speaker 3: as Paton pointed out to you, I think he skipped

256
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Speaker 3: it because they were a little scared.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember now. I have to look back.

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Speaker 3: My wife, Eve, who celebrates as intensely as I do.

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Speaker 3: She at one point wanted to buy oh a cursed

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Speaker 3: supposedly cursed weediboard off of like eBay, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not comfortable with that. I think we shouldn't mess

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Speaker 3: around just because if it has bad energy. I still

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Speaker 3: whatever our belief is, I don't want to. I don't

264
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Speaker 3: like bringing the idea of bad energy into the house.

265
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Speaker 3: But was in Germany and I found this doll that

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Speaker 3: immediately had some kind of presence to it, and see

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Speaker 3: it just felt like there was something off about the doll.

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Speaker 3: And then of course she could be like, well, you're

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Speaker 3: getting this cursed doll. I was like, well, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I brought it home back to the States. Immediately we

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Speaker 3: started to have kind of odd energy around it, experiences

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Speaker 3: around it, and so I brought in someone for one

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Speaker 3: of the gatherings to do kind of a I guess

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Speaker 3: like a blessing or a cleansing of the doll. It

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Speaker 3: didn't go great because then like the speakers fritzed out

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Speaker 3: and like went into like high pitched like feedback. Everybody's

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Speaker 3: ears kind of got hurt. The doll didn't seem to

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Speaker 3: really want cleansing. The doll is no longer my home.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, what was happening with the doll to begin.

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Speaker 3: With, well, I don't know, you know how you know

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Speaker 3: what it's like. It's so like people always roll their

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Speaker 3: eyes and raise their eyebrows and sigh heavily when you

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00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 3: say things like it was an energy. It felt weird,

284
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Speaker 3: but like it felt like my kids on several occasions,

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Speaker 3: who at that point were extra young. Now they're ten

286
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Speaker 3: and seven. I think my kids were like four and

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Speaker 3: maybe four and seven at that point. We're like, the

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00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 3: doll was, you know, saying stuff to me and I

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Speaker 3: don't but I couldn't understand it, and I felt like

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00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 3: at one point it was an implication that it almost

291
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 3: sounded like a different language with them, which then freaked

292
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Speaker 3: me out because I was like, oh, I did get

293
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 3: this doll in Berlin, and then I was trying to research,

294
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,399
Speaker 3: like do like Google image searches to figure out like

295
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,159
Speaker 3: where this doll had actually come from, and because it

296
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 3: was like a thrift store that I found it, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just some crazy like side of the road in Berlin,

298
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Speaker 3: you know, discovery. But they were and I trust my

299
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Speaker 3: kids intuitions too, when they're like this this is I

300
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,400
Speaker 3: don't like this. It's like okay, all right, well we'll

301
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Speaker 3: cleanse this thing. Well, we'll try.

302
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Speaker 2: I believe in that. I believe in the power of cleansing.

303
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 3: It's such a beautiful like you could you could you

304
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Speaker 3: could say, you know, a shaman with the power of

305
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 3: energy fields can cleanse or eck art Toole's like ideas

306
00:17:55,040 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 3: behind just intentional cleansing, regardless of how you want to

307
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Speaker 3: break it down scientifically. When I walk through a space

308
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Speaker 3: and I put that intention and even maybe use some

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00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 3: medicinal elements if it's burning herbs or if it's doing

310
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 3: you know, anything ritualistic, it's just cleansing. So didn't seem

311
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Speaker 3: to work. Got rid of the doll, have had some fun.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so you just how did you get You just

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Speaker 1: gave it to someone or threw it away or something.

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Speaker 3: This woman who came who I had found through somebody,

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Speaker 3: I have to look back, but she had like an

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00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 3: experience in like folklore and mythology, and you know she

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Speaker 3: was was it was kind of tongue in cheek, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I've got these like cleansing rituals and I will

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Speaker 3: read this for you guys and give a little mini

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Speaker 3: lecture on objects and the power of objects and belief

321
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 3: systems and I mean, you tell anybody the power of

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Speaker 3: objects and belief systems, especially when it comes to the

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Speaker 3: supernatural and things that are, you know, beyond the veil.

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Speaker 3: You know, people maybe laugh at folks like you and

325
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 3: me who really like think.

326
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 2: About this stuff a lot.

327
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 3: But I'm like, there's millions of people that will and

328
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 3: I'm not mocking them at all. I think that there's

329
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 3: a power in it that hold a rosary and feel

330
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 3: an incredible amount of total spiritual power. There's people that

331
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 3: keep the you know, the the the collar from the

332
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 3: pet that was gone and that pet is still with them,

333
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,199
Speaker 3: and there's power and objects there is you know, what

334
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 3: is Freud say?

335
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: What does Mary Shelley say? I don't know.

336
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 3: I think everybody has a cool opinion about this stuff.

337
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,640
Speaker 1: What happened when you did the seance? You were talking

338
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: about like, who were you contacting the seance?

339
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 3: It was we were contacting any one present. Because the

340
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 3: house that we own only one family lived in it.

341
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: I don't know who or if anyone passed in the house,

342
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: but in just the surrounding area, the space we've always

343
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 3: felt there there were presences and I feel a positive energy,

344
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 3: energetic presence in the house.

345
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Speaker 2: That I live in.

346
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 3: It's it's in Los Angeles, and it's a strange house.

347
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 3: It's kind of you feel like Aleister Crowley would have

348
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 3: liked this house. The design, the layout of it's very

349
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 3: It seems at some points like they were just throwing

350
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 3: stuff at the wall and seeing what's stuck, and other

351
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 3: times like this seems wildly intentional, like this strange angle,

352
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: this strange archway, whatever. But I just love it because

353
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 3: it's so unique and it always makes you feel like

354
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: you're looking at a space that wasn't approached with any

355
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 3: forms of cookie cutter, which is how I like to

356
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 3: look at most things life.

357
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Speaker 2: Anything.

358
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Speaker 1: Damn.

359
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 3: So we had this, say as a friend of mine

360
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 3: who had good experience, it was tricky because we didn't

361
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 3: get to you can't follow all the rules when you've

362
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 3: got seventy people up in the upper like balcony looking

363
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 3: down and people gathered around and there was I want

364
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 3: to say eight or a dozen of us at the table,

365
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 3: you know, participating in the in the sands. And it

366
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 3: was done in a style that I'd never seen before

367
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 3: experienced with a pendulum which went all the way up

368
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 3: to the third floor and came down and it was

369
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: perfectly still.

370
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

371
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 3: And the questions that began as as simple things, you know,

372
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 3: oh man, I can't, like, are you someone with us

373
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 3: this evening? And Dad, and you know, the movement in

374
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 3: this pendulum was so awesome and so exciting, and everything

375
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: was going pretty well. And at one point, and I

376
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 3: think it was just so crowded in the dining room

377
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 3: in the area around. We had like plastic fake candles

378
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 3: for decoration that went like on each of the windows

379
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: of each of the levels of the home, which were

380
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: a pain in the ass to get into their places.

381
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,719
Speaker 3: And I wondered if it's because so many people were

382
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 3: like leaned up against that wall or something. But so

383
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 3: at one point and people had said to me, I

384
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 3: don't I'd like to leave, or I.

385
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Speaker 2: Don't think you should do this.

386
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: So there's all there's already this tension in this space.

387
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: So I was like, guys, relax, we're not inviting negativity

388
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 3: in here. We're just we're communicating. But a candle fell

389
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: from the third floor window and it caused such a

390
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 3: ruckus people scattered. The energy was broken, the connection was broken,

391
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: and that was that wow. And I was like, sorry,

392
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 3: I don't you.

393
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: Know, well, like some people would be like, now you're

394
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: opening up but poured, or like you know, you're opening

395
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: the doors to the ghosts and the house coming through.

396
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: Like did was that the case for you?

397
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 3: There was a couple of people who pulled me aside

398
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 3: very seriously, and I didn't you know, I took them serious.

399
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 2: I listened to them. I said, thank you.

400
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 3: For your input. I appreciate it. I I feel comfortable

401
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: with you know. That's like saying this might sound like

402
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: a weird thing to say, but it's like, I don't

403
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 3: just bring strangers in off the street into my home.

404
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if I did, out.

405
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 3: Of a million strangers walking past my house, if I

406
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 3: just were to open the door every time a stranger walk,

407
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, come in for five minutes. Out

408
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 3: of a million of them, pray, nine hundred ninety nine thousand,

409
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 3: nine and ninety nine of them, I would have like

410
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 3: some kind of interesting conversation with their human beings that

411
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 3: just are existing on this very difficult plane of existence

412
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 3: called trying to be a person. Now, maybe one in

413
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 3: a million of them is a complete, utter, sociopathic psychopath

414
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: that I would never want in my home. And like,

415
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: I feel pretty good about my vibe check that I

416
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 3: would sense that as they're walking up the driveway and

417
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 3: be like, you know, what a wrong person.

418
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 2: I thought you were somebody else. Go ahead. Yeah, So

419
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: that's kind of how I feel about it.

420
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: So many people are just so convinced that it's demons,

421
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it comes from religion where

422
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: people think like there's basically God and angels and saints

423
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, but then anything else is just

424
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: a demon.

425
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: Well, if you're a ghost, that means you're not in heaven,

426
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 3: and if you're not in heaven, then you're and you're

427
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: not in hell like humans according to you know, the

428
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 3: principles of certain dogma would say you're either in purgatory,

429
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 3: which means you're not allow you're not a wandering earth,

430
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: then you're in hell or you're in heaven. So if

431
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 3: you're not in one of those places, if you're wandering earth,

432
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 3: then you must be. And it's interesting to me that

433
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 3: you know, exorcism, law and mythology and demonology, you know,

434
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: it's it's all to me a really incredible, fantastic, mythological, beautiful,

435
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 3: folkloric way of us trying to grapple with the pain,

436
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 3: the baffling the insidious nature of how our bodies, minds,

437
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 3: and even if you so believe spirits interact when in crises.

438
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: I think it's really sad to think about the number

439
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: of people historically who wrestled with some form of you know,

440
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: mental illness combined with physical ailment, combined with some kind

441
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: of you know, spiritual crises, probably instigated by either early

442
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: childhood trauma or brain you know, disorders that were you know,

443
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: thrust into the designated role of possess. I've been thinking

444
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 3: about that a lot lately, because I think so it's interesting.

445
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: We always see in stories and movies it's like, then

446
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: you bring in the religious person who has the religious

447
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: power to cast out the thing, but they never really do,

448
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: do they. It always continues to like, you know, move on.

449
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: And that's not to say that if somebody was suffering

450
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't absolutely want to enlist the power of

451
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: prayer from someone who believes in the power of asking

452
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: a higher power, asking a loving God to like, you know,

453
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: intervene in whatever way is possible, because it's all beyond

454
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 3: our understanding. You know, our brains will never be able

455
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: to rationalize or understand how all of this stuff really works,

456
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 3: but I certainly wouldn't want to put that upon some

457
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: poor child, you know, wrestling with that. And I think

458
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: it's been an easy way for thousands of years for

459
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: us to look at the gross, embarrassing, darker, self centered,

460
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: self pitying natures that exist within us because we're so

461
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: scared and we're trying to keep ourselves safe, and we

462
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 3: do behaviors sometimes that are utterly unreasonable and embarrassing, and

463
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 3: we go, oh my god, I cannot believe I acted

464
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: like that. Well, part of you acted that way because

465
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 3: you're trying to keep yourself safe, because there's a part

466
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 3: of you that's still a little kid inside who's afraid

467
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: of so many things. But it's so much easier to

468
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 3: go the devil.

469
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: The devil.

470
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: Well, and so many times too, I think it's like, oh,

471
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: people just had a different interest than everyone else, or

472
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: they looked at things a different way or whatever, and

473
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: it's like, well, then you're possessed your demon Burnham.

474
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 3: Oh well, sure, think about witches. Think about the history

475
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: of witches. I am. I've been, you know, self promotion time.

476
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: I've been writing a comic book I'm very proud of

477
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 3: for many years called Count Crowley, and it's about a

478
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: woman who wants to be a legitimate news broadcaster, but

479
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 3: she In nineteen eighty three, she gets assaulted by like

480
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: the lead anchor on a news program, and no one

481
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: believes her because he's the like, the shining star of

482
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 3: the network and she is an alcoholic. So she goes

483
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: back to her hometown in Missouri, which is near where

484
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: I'm from, and she's just like so depressed, drinks herself

485
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: nearly to death, and her brother runs this little small

486
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 3: town station where their parents used to run it, and

487
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 3: the only job he can get her employed on is

488
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: as a late night horror host, which for me were

489
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: kind of gateway into my love of horror. We had

490
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: one in Kansas City where I grew up. But anyway,

491
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: my character Jerry, she does it reluctantly because she's going

492
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: to get evicted, and she gets wasted, and she puts

493
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: on this makeup and she shows up as Count Crowley.

494
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: I know you're not probably showing this, but for you

495
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: to see, that's what she looks like. And she ends

496
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 3: up fighting out that the person she replaced who used

497
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 3: to be the horror host was actually one of the

498
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: world's last monster hunters, and I grew up reading and

499
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: loving these old monster hunter magazines and comic books. But

500
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: I thought about it, and I was like women who

501
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: take on the system, women you know, historically who would

502
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: have been considered like the heroes of their time, fighting

503
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: against the true, you know, evil, because we see it

504
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 3: in our time. We see people that to me are

505
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: the bad monsters taking strong positions of power in our

506
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: government and our in our society, and they're wielding that

507
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 3: power to maintain authority and control over others that they

508
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: would choose to marginalize and wound in some sick kind

509
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: of feeding upon their own, you know, unrelenting quest to

510
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: control everything. And so a woman historically who would stand

511
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: up and make that, you know, make that battle was

512
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: it was so easy to go, oh my god, she's

513
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: she's a witch, or if she was even unbridling her

514
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: own sexuality. Let's say, at a time when and it's

515
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: still dangerous for so many people to do that, whatever

516
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: their gender they would be. You know, it's wild. They

517
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: put them in a chair, strap them into the thing,

518
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 3: and dip them in the river. Let's see if they

519
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: can breathe underwater.

520
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: Wild.

521
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I think about all of that all

522
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: the time. I think about the mental illness, you know,

523
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: side of it, where it's like the all these times

524
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: where we, yeah, we didn't have the research and technology

525
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: and and doctors didn't have the training and understanding of

526
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: different any kind of differences where they just would blame

527
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: it on, blame it on the devil, the devil, the devil. Well,

528
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: I also think with like mental health stuff ghosts, Like

529
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: I wonder how many of them if they just like

530
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: went to therapy, if they had it when they were alive,

531
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: if they would like get over that lover that they

532
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: wander the hallways searching for after all these years or whatever.

533
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: But it's like people didn't do that.

534
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: You know what, that's a great idea for a show

535
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: where there's a therapist for the afterlife. There's a therapist

536
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: for those ghosts to really help them, you know. I mean,

537
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: I guess medium she kind of tried to do that,

538
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: you know.

539
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a sober person and I'm a therapy person.

540
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm not a trained none of that, but I've dealt

541
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: with a lot of it in my own life, and

542
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: when I do go ghost hunting sometimes I apply some

543
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: of that to you know, trying to understand what's going

544
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: on here. I don't know. I think it's a good

545
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: way to look at it.

546
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: Have you ever considered I sometimes think about you know,

547
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 3: there's lore that was discussed in a lot of some

548
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: of the cinema that we got from like Japan, say,

549
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: in the nineties, and it opened my eyes to thinking

550
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: more about ways in which poltergeist activity isn't necessarily even

551
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: just like the resurrected spirits, say of some angry First

552
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: Nations person whose grave was you know, mishandled, which is

553
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 3: kind of a trope at this point, but I think about, like,

554
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: what about like the person who was hit by a

555
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: car and there's this echoing reverberation of that.

556
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: They just the trauma of that, Because trauma.

557
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: Is at the root of all of our If anybody's

558
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: been in therapy, anybody who struggled with addiction, anybody who

559
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: struggled as a human being, we all, all of us

560
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: carry trauma, and we just get into the game of

561
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 3: like justding ourselves because well, oh, my tea is little tea.

562
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: It's not as big as their tea. Their tea is

563
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: so much bigger. So how am I suffering so much? Like,

564
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: who gives a crap? You guys, we all carry it

565
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: with us. So imagine wham, just hit by a car

566
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: out of nowhere and you're gone. That trauma of that moment,

567
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 3: like reverberating echoing in a space. There's elements of physics, particles,

568
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 3: you know, the atomic relativity, things that we just can't

569
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: even begin to think about or understand. There's there's how

570
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: many thousands of conic colors that our eyes don't even see,

571
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: So like what if that is the reverberation of that

572
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: and it would know? How powerful could it be someone

573
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: like yourself who can find some way of connecting with that,

574
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: that person's echo that's still there, like experiencing that trauma

575
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: and being able to help like ease that.

576
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: That's to me, that's really beautiful.

577
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean there's a lot of things we

578
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: can't see. Doesn't mean they're not there at all times.

579
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: Like I can't see the internet, like working, Like I

580
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: can see the results of it, but like I don't know,

581
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: like I can't see you can't see certain I can't

582
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: see germs, right, but they're there.

583
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: I love that argument when people try to say to me,

584
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: like there's never you can't you can't explain the unexplained

585
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: or whatever, And I go, Okay, I'm going to give

586
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: you five minutes. I want you to explain to me

587
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: how television works. Seriously, I don't explain that to me

588
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: because I've heard things. I've seen things that I can't explain.

589
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: So if you're telling me that they can't be rolled,

590
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: and just please please, with our very capable brains, explain

591
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 3: to me how the internet freaking works? How is my

592
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: cell phone work?

593
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: But you know what, I love not knowing like I

594
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 1: love just I love especially the unknown. The all of

595
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is so fun for me to

596
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: just if I had the answers. First of all, I

597
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't have a podcast. It would be so boring. We

598
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: would know everything, you know, it's keeping me in business

599
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: not knowing everything. Yes, wait, I have to talk to

600
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: you about Late Night with the Devil.

601
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: Ooh.

602
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: I love this movie. Thank you, And if anyone listening

603
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: has not seen it, oh my god. First of all,

604
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: your performance is.

605
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: Incredible, thank you.

606
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: And it's just such a different kind of movie. It's fun,

607
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: it looks cool, it's scary. It's just like everything I love.

608
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: I love aesthetics and colors and then also spooky and

609
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: just ugh, it's such a me movie. I love it.

610
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: To me the movie. Thank you for saying that.

611
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: By the way, I really appreciate this, and I appreciate

612
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: the shout out and the plug too. So I do

613
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 3: hope anyone who is a fan of yours will now

614
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: take your lead and go and give this movie a chance.

615
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: It's called Late Night with the Devils, written and directed

616
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: by two brothers who are Australian named Colin and Cameron

617
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: Karen's and the Karens brothers grew up just like me,

618
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: obsessed with late night horror hosts and late night talk show.

619
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 3: Well I wasn't as obsessed with late night talk shows

620
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 3: as I was with just like classic horror cinema, eighties

621
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: cinema that was, you know, from the likes of John

622
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: Carpenter or David Cronenberg or any of these you know,

623
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: awesome filmmakers we had at that time, Toby Hooper. So

624
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 3: they write this film about a guy who's, you know,

625
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: the host of late night talk show and he's in

626
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 3: second place to Carson and he's going to get canceled

627
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 3: because he's just getting clobbered by you know, a ratings loss,

628
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: and he's recently widowed in the last year, and he's

629
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: this guy just has never processed any of the going

630
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: back to the trauma, Like he's never processed the trauma

631
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: of losing the love of his life, of his fumbling career,

632
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: of the fact that he has to be mister happy

633
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 3: and charming guy in front of the national audience every

634
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: night while behind the scenes he's drinking himself and stressing

635
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: and overworking himself to an early grave. So to me,

636
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: when I've read the script, I was like, Oh, I

637
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: can latch on all that stuff because I know psychologically,

638
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: emotionally how all of that stuff can feel. Now it's

639
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 3: Halloween Night, nineteen seventy seven. The show is going to

640
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: be canceled any second. So in order to try and

641
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: resurrect his show, he brings on this young woman and

642
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 3: the doctor who's been caring for her, who he has

643
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: started to develop feelings for. And this young girl was

644
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: recently rescued from a ritualistic cult and it is believed

645
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 3: she believes that she's possessed by a demon. And so

646
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 3: his hope is that things will go bananas. Maybe he

647
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: can even have an exorcism on live TV and it

648
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: will goose his ratings. And I love that notion of

649
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: the script too, because I've definitely done things in my life,

650
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: whether it was career wise or even just relationship wise,

651
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: where I've bent the little calibration on my ethical compass

652
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 3: just a smidge because I thought that the ultimate goal

653
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: was worth it, right, Like, well, if I can make

654
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: this good thing happen, then maybe it's okay. If I

655
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: just just in my compass a little bit, Wow, it

656
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: never goes well, and it certainly doesn't in the movie,

657
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: and I think it it's just like what we were

658
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: talking about, that meeting point between fractured psychees, untreated trauma,

659
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: emotional dysregulation, and the way in which psychic energy and

660
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: manifestations can just erupt. And I really loved getting to

661
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 3: make the film. I'm so glad you liked it.

662
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: Ah, Yes, And I'm I'm also such a huge fan

663
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: of well sixties and seventies, like paranormal studies and like

664
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: it's definitely the era of like parapsychology and ESP and

665
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: all of this, the warrens Adam Lorraine Warren and anyway,

666
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: now when you're doing this kind of movie, of course

667
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: you hear these stories, weird things are happening on set

668
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: or did any of that that happen.

669
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: I had two incidents that were tricky for me, and

670
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 3: it was really fun. I didn't ever feel in danger,

671
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: one of which I just want to attribute to good acting,

672
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: because I would never want to put it out there

673
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: into the interspheres that she would be that she was possessed,

674
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 3: because she's a wonderfully sound minded young actor out of

675
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: Australia named Ingridterrelli, who plays Lily, the girl who is

676
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: supposedly possessed in the film.

677
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: We shot.

678
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 3: This is a This is like a Friends and Family Productions,

679
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: very small production. We were on a little stage in

680
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: Australia in Melbourne called Docklins, and there was little we

681
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: didn't have, like trailers or these little dressing room areas

682
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: that were kind of off the stage. It was like

683
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: doing a play, to be honest, which is something I

684
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: loved about it as an actor.

685
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: But I was walking past.

686
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: I would go say hi to everybody in the morning,

687
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: and you know, after you've done hair and makeup and

688
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 3: you're just getting ready to start, and I'm walking down

689
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: the hall and I walked past the Lily's room, her

690
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: doors open, and I went to say hi to her,

691
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: and she was staring at herself in the mirror, and

692
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 3: I got this like perspective as she's like staring at herself,

693
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: getting herself into character for this this possessed young woman,

694
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 3: and it sent chills down my spec. She had no

695
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 3: she didn't hear me, and she didn't have any awareness

696
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: of my presence, and it scared me so bad. I

697
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: really like, it gave me the chills. And then we're

698
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 3: shooting a sequence where there's a lot of cool, very

699
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: old school, rudimentary special effects tools at play. We did

700
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 3: this film again with not a lot of money, very

701
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 3: little money in fact, and so most of the things

702
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 3: we did we did practically. And there's a moment where

703
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: like a table starts shaking and some glasses explode, and

704
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 3: this is all done with little motors and little remote controls,

705
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 3: and it's very fun, you know, it's like old school filmmaking.

706
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 3: So while that's happening, my character is really supposed to

707
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: be taking in his environment and being like this this

708
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: wasn't are these are like did we do this? Did

709
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: we plan this little thing? Or is this like or

710
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 3: is this actually really happening, So it starts happening. But

711
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 3: in addition to the loud noise of the table rattling

712
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: and the theorem and player making noise the walls of

713
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: the stage in the are areas where there's no hallways.

714
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 3: So there's areas around this stage where there are no hallways.

715
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: This is literally just the edge of the wall of

716
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: the stage, which are all soundproofed. It sounded like I

717
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 3: don't know how I can recreate it where I am

718
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: right now, but like like things were shaking out in

719
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 3: the outer realm. It happened once, and I will always

720
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 3: wonder if they found some way to mess with me,

721
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 3: to like go bang on things, because I asked, and

722
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: they genuinely seemed to be that. People were like, I

723
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 3: don't think did anybody hear anything? I was like, did

724
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 3: you guys hear that?

725
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: That was really scary?

726
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't know, I don't need

727
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: to know. All I know is that I had a blast.

728
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: I felt completely safe making that movie, and I mean

729
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: safe not in a supernatural way, but in an emotional,

730
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 3: like psychological wake. The character he had to go to

731
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 3: some really dark places, and when you're with people making films,

732
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: who approach it with so much love and consideration and

733
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: create a real safety net you can just jump into it.

734
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 3: It was such a great experience. I'm so happy. I'm

735
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: so proud that people seem to really dig it. It means

736
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: so much that you liked it.

737
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: Thank you.

738
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should be proud anytime people are just like

739
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: doing things different. Oh my favorite. You know, it's like

740
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: a completely original It's it's just a beautiful, a beautiful

741
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: thing to see and I want everyone to see that movie.

742
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: Thank you.

743
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: It's funny because like I feel like it's the devil

744
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: whenever the Devil is mentioned in these movies. That's why

745
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: I ask if anything happened on set, because it seems

746
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: like I feel like the people I've talked to that

747
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: have done movies that are about a haunted house, like

748
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: it's not really that, but it's like it's anytime it's

749
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: a possession movie or whatever, there's like a couple of

750
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: weird little things that will happen. So I'm taking your

751
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: stories and saying, yes, there was some weirdness, but nothing

752
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: too bad.

753
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: Thank you. I choose to believe.

754
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a ghost or you know, had

755
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: an experience where you're like, I'm that's a ghost.

756
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 3: When I was eleven going twelve, coming out of like

757
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 3: a really tumultuous divorce that my parents had, and it was

758
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: really really dark.

759
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: I was.

760
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 3: I was deep in the throes of my first very

761
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: long battle with depression, suicidal, ideation, isolation. I was, like

762
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: I said, raised very religiously, and I was struggling with

763
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 3: that relationship with concepts of spirituality. My sexuality was beginning

764
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 3: to you know, really grow. I was on the verge

765
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: of puberty, and I was definitely told by like a

766
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: religious counselor that my thoughts of suicide were probably tough.

767
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 3: I do the fact that I was having, you know,

768
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: sexual fantasies or masturbating and just all kinds of real

769
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: problematic stuff was being plumped into my brain while at

770
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 3: the same time I was doing my own dabbling with

771
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: the occult and trying to learn about stuff that I

772
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 3: found really fascinating, and it all kind of cal It

773
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: was really interesting with this little house in South Kansas

774
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: City where there was like six people living there, including

775
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: siblings and parents, and then within a very short time

776
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: amount of time, it's just like me and my mom

777
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 3: and there's me and my mom and my sister, because

778
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: my sister got really sick and needed to be home.

779
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 3: So you have a very sick sibling, very dark house,

780
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 3: windows are all closed up. You know, I'm in deep depression,

781
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 3: and I was really wrestling with insomnia, deep insomnia. I

782
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 3: really had like one friend, and my mother was you know,

783
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: very religious, but also a bit unavailable in ways that

784
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 3: I would have been helpful at that time. And I

785
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 3: had no relationship with my father at that point. So

786
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: all this to say, I give you this lead up

787
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: because I think any psychiatric psychologist, counselor listening would be

788
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: able to go, well, this is why these things happen.

789
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: I wonder often if it's a marriage between of course,

790
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: the psychological and the hormonal and the things that were

791
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 3: going on with me meeting something else and I don't

792
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: know what it is, and I will never know what

793
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: it is, and maybe even when I die, I'll never

794
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: get to know what it was. But I started hearing conversational,

795
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: very whispery voices late at night. I was having auditory

796
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 3: experiences where I was hearing things. I for a long

797
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 3: time believed that my radio turned to certain dials would

798
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: help me tune into extraterrestrial life based on something that

799
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: I'd read at one point, so I would turn on

800
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 3: radio late late at night and then turned way to

801
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: the far right dial and just like lay there and

802
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 3: hope for listening for something. And maybe I was just

803
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 3: hoping and my imagination was hearing these voices. But what

804
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: would happen is these soft, soft voices. I would lean

805
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 3: in and lean in and lean in, and then all

806
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: of a sudden the screen would would ring out, Oh God,

807
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: but it would scare the crap out of me, and

808
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: I couldn't sleep. And then I started hearing footsteps coming

809
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: up and I was sleeping in an attic at that point,

810
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: coming up and down the stairs to my attic, and

811
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 3: then I would go and check, and the next day

812
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: ask my mom, you know what was going on last night,

813
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: and then she would say nothing, it's sleep. And at

814
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 3: one point I came home and my mom was mad

815
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 3: and frustrated. I was like, what, and she thought I

816
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: had done it. I know I had not done it.

817
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: I don't know who else could have done it, but

818
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 3: someone had pulled all the drawers out of the bathroom

819
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: that was like at the bottom of those stairs that

820
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 3: then led to where my mom's room, and my mom

821
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: and my sister were sleeping in the same room because

822
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: my mom was taking care of my sister. At that point,

823
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: the running up and down the stairs got more and

824
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: more intense, the sounds got more intense. Was it my

825
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 3: little self grappling with my first severe anxiety and panic attacks?

826
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what was it. I don't know visually,

827
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 3: I never saw anything, but I do know that I

828
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 3: came down I finally fell asleep one night, I got

829
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 3: a very good night's sleep for the first time in

830
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: a very long time. And by the way, this is

831
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 3: while I was preparing for my first like serious contemplative

832
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 3: attempt on my life, and I was really thinking I

833
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 3: was going to do it like that week. And I

834
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: came downstairs and my mom, my sister and I hadn't

835
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: my sister hadn't really left her bed in a while,

836
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: but they were sitting in the living room with someone

837
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 3: a friend of my mom's was very religious from church,

838
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: and they were very upset, And I said, what's going on.

839
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 3: I thought maybe they'd found my note, but they said,

840
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: do you remember last night? And I said no, And

841
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: apparently in like a complete glazed over fog. I had

842
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: walked throughout the house not responded to anybody, like sleepwalked.

843
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: I guess you would say, if you're a scientist, in a.

844
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 3: Way that really creeped everybody out. And then I went

845
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: back to bed and fell asleep, and whatever it was

846
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: that they saw, it freaked them out. So then of

847
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: course they go go in my room and they find

848
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: all this stuff that I've been like looking at, and

849
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: so then they did like a whole like blessing over

850
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 3: my room, and dah dah da da da. I looking

851
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 3: back at that kid, I wish a that he'd been

852
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 3: listened to a lot more, and I wish that he

853
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: had been taken to like a really good therapist. I

854
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: feel like that could have had a huge impact. And

855
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 3: I think that anybody who's listening to this, whether you're

856
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 3: forty eight like me, or you're twelve, or maybe there's

857
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 3: a twelve year old or a nine year old in

858
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 3: your life that is struggling and you just don't know

859
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: how to reach out to them, but you know their

860
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 3: behavior is changing and it seems like they're in darkness.

861
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 3: Whatever your belief system, whatever your faith, whatever your family

862
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 3: of origins, traditions are there's great powers spiritually as well

863
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: as medically in getting them to talk to a professional.

864
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: And I really wish that that had happened for me

865
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: at that point, but it didn't, and I survive, and

866
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 3: here I am today to live to tell.

867
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: Have you sleepwalked?

868
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: Since then, I have never sleepwalked. I've had some interesting

869
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 3: verbal moments where my wife dreads this story.

870
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 2: Scares are so bad.

871
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: But one time I sat up, I guess, and I said,

872
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: she's there.

873
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: She's in the corner. There she is.

874
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 3: I woke up and my wife, who's very tiny, teeny tiny,

875
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 3: she was like crouched like a little chinchilla on the

876
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: pillow next to my head. I was like, what are

877
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: you doing there? She was like, no, no, no.

878
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: That is very scary. What about sleep paralysis? Is that

879
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: a thing?

880
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 3: I've not wrestled with sleep paralysis? But as a little

881
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 3: boy I had this. I've always been obsessed with the

882
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: concept of infinity, and I was always really scared of

883
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: infinity since I was very small, and I used to

884
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 3: have this reoccurring vision late at night when I was

885
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 3: very little. I would lay on my back and I

886
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 3: would see what looked like this giant meat ball spinning

887
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 3: above my bed, and it was like to me, it

888
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: felt like it was eternity, the concept of eternity, which

889
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: has always been so overwhelming for me that I can't

890
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: even think about it now at forty eight without getting

891
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 3: a bit of a headache or like feeling a little

892
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 3: sick to my stomach, because it's just so overwhelming. It's

893
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: so hard for my tiny brain to comprehend it. But

894
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,959
Speaker 3: I've known a few people who have struggled with sleep

895
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: paralysis and shadow people because I was I spent I'm

896
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 3: twenty two years dry. I've kind of stopped saying twenty

897
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 3: two years sober. I stopped shooting up and drinking twenty

898
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: two years ago. I have had numerous emotional relapses, so

899
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 3: I don't think I've behaved necessarily like a sober person

900
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 3: these past twenty two years. But I certainly haven't used

901
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 3: you know, heroin or alcohol, which is thank goodness. But

902
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 3: when I was using heroine at one point, I was

903
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: experimenting with speed and doing speedballs and kind of going

904
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 3: into you know, darker corners of the Midwest where meth

905
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: was starting to really rise in the early two thousands,

906
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 3: and I interacted with a number of people who had

907
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 3: lots of stories about the shadow people, and I felt

908
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 3: like there was times when I'd been sleepless for a

909
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: day or two and I could see them, you know,

910
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 3: out in the woods around whatever creepy house I was

911
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: using at. I think that that's I don't know what

912
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: it is.

913
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. Is it alien research? Is it you know?

914
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: Is it ourselves that is we're so out of touch

915
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 3: with our own souls in those moments of you know,

916
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 3: self abuse, drugs, just destruction, that like our souls trying

917
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: to reach out to us. Is it our higher self

918
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: that's so disconnected from us? Is it our ego? Is

919
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: it our shadow like a Freudian shadow, it's come to

920
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: life now and is out to like just wreck destruction.

921
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it scares the crap out of me.

922
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: I think it could be any of those things, because

923
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: I think about that too. I'm I'm nine years yeah,

924
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: and I guess. I mean, I always just say sober

925
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: because it's easiest. But yeah, I totally get what you're

926
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: saying about all that.

927
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: Oh boy, I mean I have been on some benders

928
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: and I didn't pick up a drug to save my life,

929
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 3: but boy, oh yeah, there's people who've been in who

930
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 3: love me, who are like, oh, that guy was a

931
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 3: monster because I wasn't working the prob I wasn't doing

932
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 3: what I needed to be doing.

933
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: Totally no me and the the Krispy Kreme, those people

934
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: are like, uh, oh, she needs to talk to someone. Anyway.

935
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: When I think about that darkness and the people place

936
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: the things that I was surrounded by in those dark times, like, yeah,

937
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I was kind of like an empty

938
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: shell of a person or whatever, and like not connected

939
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: to the spiritual side of me. And I can see

940
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: how darkness is attracted to darkness, and yeah, could it

941
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: be my shadow has left my body or my soul

942
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: is leaving my body or floating around? I mean, it

943
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: doesn't feel very closely tethered when you're in those moments,

944
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: and who knows what kind of weird other worldly things

945
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: can happen. Yeah, and you could. It's very easy to go, oh, well,

946
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: it's just you're on drugs, so it's not like real.

947
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: I think. I think that, like, especially when people are

948
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: doing drugs or drinking or whatever, your your inhibitions are

949
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: lowered obviously, and you're you're not focused on all the

950
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: things in life that we're always thinking about, much like

951
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: how animals and children, they say, are a lot of

952
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: times closer to the other side, are more open to

953
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: the other side. They're not focusing on all these other

954
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: things that we're focused on, And I think we're in

955
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: a more state of openness or something like that.

956
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: I agree.

957
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,439
Speaker 3: I think there are countless ways to lift the veil.

958
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 3: Two of the most prolific throughout human history have been

959
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: either one inebriation or be kind of like a monastic

960
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 3: real intentionality and anyone who's curious. I found a lot

961
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 3: of magic and inspiration in a book called The Teachings

962
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 3: of Don Juan by Carlos Costeneda, about a researcher who

963
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 3: goes to work with the First Nation's medicine man shaman,

964
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: who teaches him the way of the payote and the

965
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: way of all of these incredible, you know resources the

966
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 3: Earth has given us to try and you know, tap

967
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 3: into the other And at a certain point, this very

968
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: you know, academic, scholarly guy who's gone down this credible

969
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 3: rabbit hole of astral projection and telekinesis and all kinds

970
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 3: of magical, wonderful stuff realizes that his guru isn't taking anything.

971
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 3: It is a discipline, you know, and it's it's kind

972
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: of it's kind of fascinating.

973
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I and I agree with you.

974
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 3: I think that the children element too is really it's

975
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 3: really fascinating.

976
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: I remember my my sister.

977
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 3: My nephew miraculously beat cancer when he's two years old.

978
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 3: But he used to have to go to the hospital

979
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: and he would get treatments and you know, da, da da,

980
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 3: And he woke up one night and said that he

981
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: had seen this girl who came to check on him,

982
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 3: and he wondered how she was doing, a girl that

983
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 3: he had been at the hospital with and she had passed.

984
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: It really moved my sister and my sister, by the way,

985
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: after my mother, my mother passed and I got lots

986
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: of little signs. And again psychologists and scientists listening to

987
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 3: me right now will go, well, that's because you're looking.

988
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 3: When you're looking for signs, you're going to see the science.

989
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 3: And I say, okay, that doesn't dissuade them from my truth.

990
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 3: My mom loved yellow butterflies, and right after she passed away,

991
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 3: I was inundated with yellow butterflies everywhere I went. I

992
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 3: felt like one almost saved my life, and my sister

993
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 3: started to really have connections to the other side because

994
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: both of us, in fact, I think most of the

995
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: people in my family reached a point where we had

996
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 3: to be liberated from the chains of spiritual belief systems

997
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: that we were indoctrinated to believe that had really held

998
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 3: us back. And she literally heard a voice saying like,

999
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 3: let go, you can let go of all that crap.

1000
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: And she's one of the most spiritual people I know.

1001
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at the time, this just flew by.

1002
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: I had some real silly, dumb stuff that we could

1003
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 1: have done, but we didn't have to get to any

1004
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: of it because this has been so amazing.

1005
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 3: Well, thank you.

1006
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: I'm honored.

1007
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: I'm honored because you care about this subject in a

1008
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 3: way that means a lot to me. I know there's

1009
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 3: a lot of approaches to this stuff, and I mostly

1010
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 3: work with people in the entertainment side of things, which

1011
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: I love. I love talking about ghosts and the supernatural

1012
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 3: and monsters from the realm of how do we entertain

1013
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 3: people and how can we I even have my own company,

1014
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,720
Speaker 3: Good Feeing Films, where we're trying to like utilize spooky

1015
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 3: stories and ghost stories and supernatural stories and mythology just

1016
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: as a form of entertaining people through which we can.

1017
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 2: Tell meaningful stories.

1018
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 3: But when someone wants to really get down and talk about,

1019
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 3: like the real.

1020
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 2: Stuff, I get very excited.

1021
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 3: So I was very honored that you wanted me to

1022
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 3: come and shoot the breeze with you, and I hope

1023
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 3: I didn't bore your listeners, and I hope I didn't

1024
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 3: bore you. I know I can be a gab fest sometimes,

1025
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 3: but this is a subject that I just think is

1026
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 3: so cool.

1027
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: Now. You make my job real easy. I could listen

1028
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: to you talk about this stuff for hours, and I

1029
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: hope one of these days you'll come back and we

1030
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: can get into more of those because we have a

1031
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: lot to talk about. We didn't even get to aliens,

1032
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: we didn't get to know Bigfoot, we didn't talk about psychics.

1033
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 2: I love it.

1034
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot I have a.

1035
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 3: Lot of friends in this in the community as well.

1036
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 3: It would be fun if you ever want to do

1037
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 3: a round table or we should do it get together

1038
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 3: at some point. I mean, I think my friend Zach

1039
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 3: and Alex twin Temple, they they really are the people

1040
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: that know the most about magic of anybody I know,

1041
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: and I think they're fascinating.

1042
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: The musicians, yes, yes, Twin Temple, I know them, aren't

1043
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: they amazing? Or I don't know them personally, but they're

1044
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: really cool.

1045
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: They're so cool.

1046
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a I call it my our coven,

1047
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: but really we just get together and play like board

1048
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 3: games and it's like the Boulets and.

1049
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 2: You know, Twin Temple and.

1050
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 3: Some of our spooky goffe friends Ed Brian and more,

1051
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: people that are so cool. But I like, I love

1052
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 3: it because I think if any of my neighbors see, like,

1053
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 3: who's coming into my house, they're probably like, what crazy

1054
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 3: Satanic orgy or the Desmulchions up to tonight And we're

1055
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 3: in there, you know, playing like some very sophisticated, weird

1056
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 3: version of battleship with like.

1057
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: No you did not think mine. It's like quite a

1058
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: bunch of nerds. I love it.

1059
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: I love that. I love spooky weirdos, especially when you

1060
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: find out that they're like not that spooky. That's like

1061
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: my favorite thing. Hey, where do you want people to

1062
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: find you? And you know, what do you want them

1063
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: to see? Tell them? Oh?

1064
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: Thanks?

1065
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 3: I try to share information about things I'm working on

1066
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: at my Instagram page, which is at desk Mulchin, so

1067
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: it's just my last name. I have Count Crowley currently

1068
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 3: in publication from dark Horse. If you like monsters and

1069
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 3: all Manner of the Supernatural. That's a really beautiful comic

1070
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 3: that I'm very proud of. This summer, we launch a

1071
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 3: new comic that I've created called Nights Versus Samurai from Image.

1072
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 3: Super excited about that. I'm making a couple of other

1073
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: announcements at San Diego Comic Con. I have Late Night

1074
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: with the Devil, which is currently streaming. And yeah, I

1075
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 3: just I hope that I can come back and talk

1076
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: to you again and that our paths cross somewhere out

1077
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 3: on some investigation somewhere. It'd be really fun.

1078
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Well, thank you so nice meeting you.

1079
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much. To David Desmalchin. I

1080
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: definitely want to have him back on this podcast at

1081
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Speaker 1: some point. Oh my god, he's so cool. Anyway, Hey,

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00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Make sure you you know Greatest five Stars,

1083
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: Tell your friends about the show, follow us on social media,

1084
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I love you all, both

1085
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: living and dead. But if I didn't ask you to

1086
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: haunt me, don't haunt me came back. This has been

1087
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: an exactly right production. Want to share your paranormal experience

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00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I read stories out loud and sometimes

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01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: I'll even call you, So email me at ghosted by

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01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: Roz at gmail dot com. You can send a DM

1091
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: or voice message to the show's Instagram at ghosted by Roz.

1092
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: Give us a follow while you're there, and follow me

1093
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: Roz on Instagram at Roz Hernandez and on TikTok and

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01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. My senior producer is the

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01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: Startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer is the alarming Christina Chamberlain.

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01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed and sound designed by the Eerie

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01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: Edson Choi. My guest booker is the Petrifying Patrick Kuttner.

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01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: Additional production support from the hair Raising Hannah Kyle Crichton.

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01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: My theme music is by the spine Chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon.

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01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: Artwork by the Spooky Vanessa Lilac, Photography by the Terrifying

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01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced by the Chilling Karen Kilgareth, the Spookky, Georgia,

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01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: Hard Start, and the Frightening Danielle Kramer,