WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Part Two: King Leopold II: The First Modern Bastard

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<v Speaker 1>Also media. Hey everyone, Robert Evans here, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>it's another holiday week. This is not a holiday I

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<v Speaker 1>tend to celebrate, but it is a holiday that our

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<v Speaker 1>company gives us off. And I like my team not

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<v Speaker 1>having to work. It's also good to not have to work.

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<v Speaker 1>And when we drop episodes on weeks like this, it

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<v Speaker 1>means you basically have to double up during the week

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<v Speaker 1>before the week after, which causes a lot of stress

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<v Speaker 1>that isn't necessary when you're trying to have everyone be

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<v Speaker 1>able to relax. So this week we are doing another

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<v Speaker 1>rewind our infamous and beloved episodes on King Leopold, the

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<v Speaker 1>Second of Belgium. So tuck in and enjoy yourselves and

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy a real terrible story of a real terrible piece

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<v Speaker 1>of shit. I hope you all have a good week,

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<v Speaker 1>regardless of what you do during it. Hello friends, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Evans and this is Behind the Bastards, the show

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<v Speaker 1>where we tell you everything you don't know about the

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<v Speaker 1>very worst people in his And this is part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our episode on Leopold, the Second, King of Belgium.

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<v Speaker 1>In part one, we sort of went over how Leopold

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<v Speaker 1>conned his way into becoming king of the Congo, how

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<v Speaker 1>he tricked the locals into signing over their rights to

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<v Speaker 1>their land, and how he conscripted thousands of them into

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<v Speaker 1>a slave army. So now we're going to get back

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<v Speaker 1>into all that and the rest of the terrible, terrible

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<v Speaker 1>story of the Belgian Congo. So the first five or

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<v Speaker 1>so years of the Congo project are great for Leopold.

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<v Speaker 1>He's in total control, richer than God, and most of

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<v Speaker 1>Europe still believes he's improving a lot of the Congolese people.

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<v Speaker 1>But in around eighteen ninety, a black journalist named Colonel

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<v Speaker 1>and he's not really a colonel, George Washington Williams saw

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<v Speaker 1>the actual Congo. So he didn't like take the tour

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<v Speaker 1>where you get led through the nice parts of the Congo, like,

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<v Speaker 1>he went on foot and he got in there and

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<v Speaker 1>he saw the fucking nightmare that Leopold had built. And

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<v Speaker 1>he wrote an article called an open Letter to King Leopold,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was the first expos of Leopold's blood soak,

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<v Speaker 1>rubber regime. William's document is remarkable because he's basically the

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<v Speaker 1>only person up to that point who actually sat down

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<v Speaker 1>with African people and asked them what was going on

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<v Speaker 1>in the Congo. He retraced a lot of Stanley's rat

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<v Speaker 1>along the Congo and actually talked to some of the

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<v Speaker 1>people who'd signed treaties giving their land to Leopold. He

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<v Speaker 1>learned that a great number of chiefs had been tricked

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<v Speaker 1>into signing things with magic tricks. One of the tricks

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<v Speaker 1>was that, like Stanley, had bought a bunch of electric

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<v Speaker 1>batteries in London, and when when attached to the arm

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<v Speaker 1>under the coat, communicated with a band of ribbon which

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<v Speaker 1>passed over the palm of the white brother's hand, And

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<v Speaker 1>when he gave the black brother a cordial grasp of

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<v Speaker 1>the hand, the black brother was greatly surprised to find

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<v Speaker 1>his white brother was so strong that he nearly knocked

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<v Speaker 1>him off his feet. When the native inquired about the

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<v Speaker 1>disparity of strength between himself and his white brother, he

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<v Speaker 1>was told that the white man could pull up trees

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<v Speaker 1>and perform the most prodigious feats of strength. So he

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<v Speaker 1>did a hand buzzer, He did a hand buzzer, and

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<v Speaker 1>these like, if you don't know what electricity is, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's just some sort of superman. Let's sign the peace treaty.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, oh, shit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Another trick was to use a magnifying glass to light

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<v Speaker 1>a cigar and then claim that white people had sun

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<v Speaker 1>powers and he'll burn up your villain, basically like I

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<v Speaker 1>have power of the sun and a lake.

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<v Speaker 2>Riloge on fire. Yeah yeah, God, what a fucking bluff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah. So Williams writes this open letter. He

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<v Speaker 2>frames it as like presuming Leopold doesn't know how terrible

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<v Speaker 2>things are. He writes about the taking of hands and

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<v Speaker 2>like all of the death and the people who are

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<v Speaker 2>being like starved to death as porters carrying. Is this

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<v Speaker 2>like sort of like modest proposal style, like of course,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but it's an indictment or do I think

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<v Speaker 2>it is.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a little bit of a satirical bent. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah. So Williams publishes this that but unfortunately he

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<v Speaker 1>dies not long after writing the letter, and Leopold's able

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<v Speaker 1>to clamp down on any kind of outrage after for

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<v Speaker 1>a little while. But seven or eight years later, another

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<v Speaker 1>guy who's an amateur journalist named Morel stumbles upon the conspiracy.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was working as a mid level employee for

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<v Speaker 1>a shipping line that had the contract to handle all

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<v Speaker 1>shipping in the Congo Free State, and so every so

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<v Speaker 1>often Morell would get sent over to Belgium and he

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<v Speaker 1>would report on what's going into and out of the

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<v Speaker 1>port of Antwerp. And so he realizes that the only

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<v Speaker 1>thing coming out of the Congo into Europe is rubber,

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<v Speaker 1>just shitloads of rubber, impossible quantities of it, larger quantities

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<v Speaker 1>than have been reported in fact. And the only thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's going being sent out to the Congo rather than

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<v Speaker 1>trade are just guns and money, and a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>guns than you'd need for any kind of philanthropic enterprise.

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<v Speaker 1>O man, Yeah, so a wire, exactly exactly. So he

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<v Speaker 1>starts he never actually goes to the Congo, but he

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<v Speaker 1>just starts digging, and he starts talking to other people

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<v Speaker 1>who have worked there, and basically he starts a newspaper

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<v Speaker 1>that is focused entirely on exposing King Leopold's crimes to

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<v Speaker 1>the world and starts publishing it all throughout Europe. He's

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<v Speaker 1>active all over the world and basically becomes like the

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<v Speaker 1>Congo equivalent of Wiki Leagues. So all these guys who

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<v Speaker 1>had worked in Leopold's Congo and felt bad were running

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<v Speaker 1>to him and be like, I saw this, this is

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<v Speaker 1>what happened. Here's some documents I managed.

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<v Speaker 2>To Well, it's also like you're like, yeah, this is

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<v Speaker 2>what wikloks was supposed to be, Like this is what

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<v Speaker 2>it could be. And this is also why people like

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<v Speaker 2>that have legitimacy because and why conspiracies have legitimacy because

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<v Speaker 2>guess what there have been Yeah, big complex conspiracy.

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<v Speaker 1>Gi gantic conspiracies. So Morrell starts this newspaper and he

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<v Speaker 1>winds up creating was probably the first modern human rights organization,

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo Reform Association, which is dedicated to stopping this

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<v Speaker 1>this fucking nightmare in the Congo. King Leopold responded by

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<v Speaker 1>inventing the first modern international pr campaign. He bought a

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<v Speaker 1>shitload of journalists of his own, and he had them

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<v Speaker 1>all right puff pieces about how great the Congo actually was.

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<v Speaker 1>He would pay for journalists to go on lavish, carefully

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<v Speaker 1>controlled trips through the Congo. He'd give them exclusive interviews

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<v Speaker 1>when they got back, and he'd use his network of

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<v Speaker 1>agents to help them place their articles in newspapers. He

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<v Speaker 1>got journalists in the New York Times to write quotes

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<v Speaker 1>like I have witnessed more atrocities in London streets than

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<v Speaker 1>I have ever seen in the Congo. He would pay

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<v Speaker 1>for journalists to give public speeches, and he would lobby politicians.

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<v Speaker 1>Leopold's regime was heavily criticized for its widespread use of

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<v Speaker 1>something called the jacote, which is a hippo hyde whip,

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<v Speaker 1>which was used to punish laborers. Prisoners were often lashed

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<v Speaker 1>to death by it, and it's possible that, like literally

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<v Speaker 1>several million people were killed with this whip. So Leopold

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<v Speaker 1>starts catching flak for this, and he decides to distract

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<v Speaker 1>attention from his whipping millions of people to death by

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<v Speaker 1>sending journalists to British colonies and having them write lyrist

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<v Speaker 1>exposees of abuses in British colonies. So his pet reporters

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<v Speaker 1>would write stories about like how the British were using

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<v Speaker 1>whips on prisoners in South Africa or something terrible they'd

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<v Speaker 1>done to people in India, and then yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly Hilary style, that's exactly it.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I said, he invented the modern art of being shitty,

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<v Speaker 1>like he's he's doing, Like what about ism on a

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<v Speaker 1>massive scale?

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<v Speaker 2>Did he have like an antecedent for like the media,

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<v Speaker 2>like playing the media, or did he just make all this.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he invented this playbook because other people had. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>every the media is existed for a while, other people

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<v Speaker 1>have used the media to one agree or other. But

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<v Speaker 1>he is the first person that I've ever run across

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<v Speaker 1>who's using it in the same way politicians use it today,

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<v Speaker 1>in the same way world leaders use it today, Like

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<v Speaker 1>this is a very modern pr campaign. He buys he

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<v Speaker 1>uses his Congo earnings to buy the editors of a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of newspapers, including the London Times. So he's spending

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<v Speaker 1>like thousands of dollars on just yeah, owning editors so

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<v Speaker 1>that number one, they'll kill stories that are negative to

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo Free State, and so that he can place

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<v Speaker 1>his positive stories once he gets like positive journalists to go,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, have a tour of the Congo and then

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<v Speaker 1>come and write about it. And this is all basically

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<v Speaker 1>a delaying action. Leopold knows eventually the truth is going

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<v Speaker 1>to get out, but he's playing for time. He's got

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years before rubber stops being as profits.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't need to do this forever, he just needs

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<v Speaker 2>to do it for a little while.

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<v Speaker 1>He just wants to suck as much money as he

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<v Speaker 1>can out of the situation, and eventually the sheer way

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<v Speaker 1>to facts did change public opinion against him, but it

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<v Speaker 1>took like twenty years. At one point, Leopold is said

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<v Speaker 1>to have seen a cartoon of himself in a German newspaper,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the cartoon he's cutting the hands off of Africans,

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<v Speaker 1>and he reportedly laughed at that and said, cut off hands.

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<v Speaker 1>That's idiotic. I'd cut off all the rest of them,

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<v Speaker 1>but not the hands. That's the thing I need in

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo. So he's a real piece of work. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>in eighteen ninety five, Leopold had started dating a sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>year old prostitute, Nade Caroline. This is when the Congo

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<v Speaker 1>is that at the height of its rubber production, so

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<v Speaker 1>he'd been hooked up to her via a pimp named Durou,

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<v Speaker 1>who was a former officer in the French army. We

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<v Speaker 1>know now that Caroline's whole relationship with Leopold was likely

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<v Speaker 1>a con game, an incredibly successful scheme to snatch his inheritance.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the time, King Leopold, blood drenched, absolute ruler

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<v Speaker 1>of the Congo, was smitten with this teenage prostitute Adam

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<v Speaker 1>Hoschild writes that quote to the extent that someone like

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<v Speaker 1>Leopold was capable of love. This teenage prostitute proved to

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<v Speaker 1>be the love of his life, So he's really he

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<v Speaker 1>got it for this girl hard. He names her. The

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<v Speaker 1>barrenness of Vaughan and the unseemliness of their relationship isn't

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<v Speaker 1>really acknowledged in the nineteen ten biography. It just calls

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<v Speaker 1>her one of the king's quote favorites, and it dances

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<v Speaker 1>around the fact that they got together while the Queen

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<v Speaker 1>was still alive. In general, it refers to the King's

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<v Speaker 1>constant parade of mistresses as distractions. So yeah, Carolyn went

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<v Speaker 1>on to write a bit about their life together, and

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<v Speaker 1>she gives this additional insight into the kind of man

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<v Speaker 1>Leopold was. Quote every evening a steam launch took the

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<v Speaker 1>King to appear, leading to my villa through a subterranean passage.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking about this, I can't help remarking on the extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>taste of the King for everything which had a secret

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<v Speaker 1>and mysterious character, anyone who could sell him anyhow, so

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<v Speaker 1>long as it was built on the site of an

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<v Speaker 1>abandoned quarry, or if it had a secret staircase. So

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<v Speaker 1>basically he's gone from being too cheap to rinse his

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<v Speaker 1>fucking like a handkerchief.

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<v Speaker 2>He's like a cartoon villain.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, to like a cartoon ville with like lairs built

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<v Speaker 1>into mountain side. It's a hidden boat like grottos and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but Carolyn seems to have his number, so she's

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<v Speaker 1>both got him on madly in love with her, but

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<v Speaker 1>she also like she takes advantage of his hypochondriasm or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever you call that, Like whenever she wanted him to

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<v Speaker 1>leave her alone, she'd pretend to have a cough, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he'd hide for days because he was scared

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<v Speaker 1>of She's she's my favorite person in this story.

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<v Speaker 2>She's Yeah, this gy locked down.

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<v Speaker 1>So the King is sort of the nineteen hundreds come around,

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<v Speaker 1>is in his late sixties, and he takes to visiting

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<v Speaker 1>his teenage mistress in a large tricycle because again, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's getting.

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<v Speaker 2>More and more to get.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah for the geno tidle murderer. Yeah, he's riding a

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<v Speaker 1>big tricycle to hang out with his teenage girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>Just as bad everyone who every white guy riding a

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<v Speaker 2>tricycle with big old mustache.

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<v Speaker 1>You are all as bad as king shit. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>he's riding a big tricycle, he drinks enough but hot water,

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<v Speaker 1>and he starts referring to himself in the third person

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<v Speaker 1>at this point in time. So, yeah, he's a weirdo.

0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.360
<v Speaker 1>He's not entirely past his old ways at this point.

0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.800
<v Speaker 1>There's like a story of the time his mistress bought

0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.760
<v Speaker 1>a new hat for him and gives it to him,

0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and he like flies into a rage, and he only

0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.280
<v Speaker 1>calms down when she explains him that she got it

0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 1>for a bargain, that it was like a deal, that

0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:25.560
<v Speaker 1>she bought it a quarter of its value. So like

0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.199
<v Speaker 1>he's still he's just he's.

0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Just a weirdo.

0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's a weird guy. He's like a weird old

0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.400
<v Speaker 1>rich letcher who's just knows what's going on in the

0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.719
<v Speaker 1>congo but doesn't like.

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, here's the other part. The other way

0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.679
<v Speaker 2>to look at that, I suppose is maybe not in

0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.320
<v Speaker 2>such a direct degree, but as Americans, we all have

0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.240
<v Speaker 2>similar types of blood on our hands that we're electing

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.000
<v Speaker 2>to not think about. Yeah, but we're not we're not

0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:53.959
<v Speaker 2>driving it in the same way, but.

0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.120
<v Speaker 1>We absolutely like we all have these phones that we know,

0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 1>are made by people who hate the work that they're doing,

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.800
<v Speaker 1>and they're like include minerals that are mined from like

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.720
<v Speaker 1>conflict ridden nations and often use slave labor in one

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.680
<v Speaker 1>And we know that, like the fabric in our clothes

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 1>is often there's slave labor at some point in the

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:14.319
<v Speaker 1>production line. Leopold knows that because he's signing the orders

0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and saying no, cut off more hands, cut off more hands,

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and he's just it's just amazing to me that he's

0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.679
<v Speaker 1>able to do that all day, every day and then

0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 1>write a tricycle to his teenage girlfriend's house.

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's it's amazing what you're saying. But to me,

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, it's a little bit just degrees. I mean, look,

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 2>we're all able to.

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 1>It is degrees. We're all able to compartmentalize the misery

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>that's necessary for our comfort.

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yea, but fuck this guy, Yeah, fuck this guy.

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that was interesting to me reading

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>that pro Leopold biography is that, well it does talk

0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>about ten yeah, nineteen ten, the air after he died.

0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 1>He's a spoiler, So this biography of him, it's very positive.

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 1>It talks about how there's atrocity, but it always kind

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 1>of doesn't talk about the detail. It just said, yeah,

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.439
<v Speaker 1>he definitely committed atrocities, but look at this or look

0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 1>at how he was. Look at how and everyone did.

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.319
<v Speaker 1>Is like everyone did, and we'll get to that in

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 1>a little. What is interesting to me is that this

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 1>biography does condemn his mistress for capitalizing on the Congo.

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Sure, it notes.

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>That she was called the Queen of the Congo by

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the people of Belgium, for she was to benefit largely

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 1>by the atrocities committed in the Free State, where sweating

0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and bleeding natives labored so as to accumulate millions for

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the royal favorite. So like he again, he doesn't really

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.600
<v Speaker 1>attack Leopold ever, Like he's like, yeah, he did some

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 1>bad stuff. But this biographer goes off on her mistress

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.120
<v Speaker 1>for like taking money from him. That's that's blood money,

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.440
<v Speaker 1>which like it is blood money. But like she's the

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.319
<v Speaker 1>least objectionable person in this situation.

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah she has a little milania. Ask I

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.079
<v Speaker 2>suppose she is, and she maybe knew more what she

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.360
<v Speaker 2>was getting into at the top.

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she probably knew less about the Congo because, like

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I doubt just a rich guy. Yeah, she just wanted

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>to marry a rich guy like I doubt he doesn't

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 1>seem like kind of guy. We've talked to his mistress

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 1>about the hands or the riks that they were murdering

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 1>people with, and it's at the time, especially probably easy

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.120
<v Speaker 1>to ignore. Yeah, forget about it. Yeah, you don't share

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that stuff with your yeah, especially not

0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 1>your teenage child bride.

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 2>No. No, And as the teenage child bride to just feel like,

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't read those books. Yeah, I don't read that article. Yeah.

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in the early nineteen hundreds, more and more

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 1>stories of abuse in the Congo hit the world press.

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>People actually started to take notice and care. They read

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 1>about things like an entire towns worth of boys being

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>giving fifty lashes each, which is a fatal sentence for

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>laughing in the presence of a white man. In nineteen

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 1>oh four, one of the rubber companies in the Congo

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 1>put one of its own men on trial, mostly to

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 1>show that they were trying to do something about all

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.240
<v Speaker 1>of the horrible crimes. The guy, Charles Cadron, was accused

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>of murdering at least one hundred and twenty two Africans.

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 1>The case wound up revealing a bunch of fucked up

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>details about like how all the hostage taking and the

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 1>handtaking and stuff actually worked. But Caudrone was released due

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>to quote extenuating circumstances. The court said that he'd had

0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 1>to contend with quote great difficulties under which Caudron found

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 1>himself accomplishing his mission in the midst of a population

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 1>absolutely resistant to any idea of work in which respects

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 1>no other law than force and knows no other means

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 1>of persuasion than terror. So yeah, yeah, they were asking

0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.200
<v Speaker 1>for it defense. They were asking for it works.

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.080
<v Speaker 2>It also still works today, Kainda.

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.720
<v Speaker 1>It does, but it was it was stopping. This is

0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 1>at the point where it was working less and less

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>in the Congo, and in the early nineteen hundreds, Leopold

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 1>starts dealing with more and more resistance to his ideas,

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.600
<v Speaker 1>both in the Congo and at home. So this is

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 1>also kind of the point of which socialism is starting

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 1>to rise. And socialists obviously aren't big fans of kings.

0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Leopold declared himself a mortal enemy of socialism. He fought

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>against the universal right to vote for all Belgians.

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Still on the playbook yeah, both of those things. Yep.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.960
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen oh two, the Belgian Labor Party called a

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 1>general strike and Leopold called for it to be brutally stopped.

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 1>The strikers were fired upon by city guards and eight

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 1>people were killed. The massacre was a calculated message to

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>the socialists, don't fuck with the money train. Leopold was

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 1>willing to kill a hell of a lot more than

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>eight people to keep the money coming. In Hashchild's book

0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 1>relates one six week campaign in the Congo that killed

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>quote over nine hundred natives, men, women, and children in

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 1>order to add twenty tons of rubber a month to

0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>one region's productivity. So that gives you an idea of

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 1>the kind of calculus he's making.

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, that's how I mean. Right, it's just lives

0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>for rubber. Yeah, it just lives for rubber has a

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>commodity price.

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I have to point out that none of the

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 1>revelations brutality did much to hurt Leopold's popularity at home

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 1>in Belgium. He was growing less popular and even hated

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of Europe. But even today there are

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Belgian museums that proudly talk about his anti slavery campaigns

0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 1>that ignore the whole genocide thing. The crimes against humanity

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't hurt Leeopold's legacy. The only thing Belgium couldn't forgive

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.440
<v Speaker 1>him for was being a shitty dad and having a mistress.

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen oh four, Leopold's daughter Stephanie sued her father,

0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 1>the king, for keeping her chunk of her mother's inheritance.

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Leopold fought in court for the right to deny his

0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 1>children their inheritance, and in fact denied them any wealth

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 1>or property even after his death. Around this time, a

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Belgian cabinet minister noted that quote, the king has but

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 1>two dreams, to die a billionaire and to disinherit his daughters.

0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.239
<v Speaker 3>I mean, what father doesn't want that?

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, a lot ways kind of cool, always kind

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 2>of cool. Wow.

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.440
<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen oh six, King Leopold finally marries the Baroness.

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 1>They have two sons. His second son was born with

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.560
<v Speaker 1>a malformed arm that just sort of ended in a

0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.120
<v Speaker 1>stump with no hand. Obviously, some people suggested this might

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:50.919
<v Speaker 1>be a judgment from God for all the millions of

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 1>hands that Leopold ordered severed, which is almost more fucked

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>up if you think about the morality behind Like, Okay,

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.760
<v Speaker 1>this guy cut off millions of people's hands, let's fuck

0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.160
<v Speaker 1>up his innocent baby's hand.

0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's not how you do that, if you got well.

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 2>First of all, that is definitely how God do that.

0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 3>God is a little punchy on the messages.

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, God, God ain't great with making sure these people

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 2>get their just desserts. Yeah, yeah, because right, because it's

0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.440
<v Speaker 2>so funny. It's like all these like just so kind

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>of stories where God is just a little like tricky metaphor, man, Like, well,

0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 2>you didn't expect this, did.

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.239
<v Speaker 3>You didn't think God would do that?

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Oh, just God, get it right, man.

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Hey, speaking of hands, why don't you use both

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 1>of them to order the products that we are about

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:43.439
<v Speaker 1>to advertise.

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Here they go.

0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:50.879
<v Speaker 3>And we're back.

0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>So the general and seemliness of the king's young bride

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 1>and the disinheritance of his daughters meant the public sort

0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 1>of deserted Leopold. Once the human rights campaign against his

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>atrocities really took off. In nineteen oh eight, King Leopold

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 1>was forced to bequeath his control of the Congo to

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.919
<v Speaker 1>the Belgian government. In exchange, they paid for the colonies

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and ten million francs worth of debt, most

0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 1>of which had been accrued because Leopold used the Free

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 1>State as a bank to buy gifts for his mistresses.

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Before he hands over control of the colony, he'd ruled

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 1>with an iron fist for more than twenty years. Leopold

0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.800
<v Speaker 1>has all of the Congo state records burned. I will

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.040
<v Speaker 1>give them my Congo, he said, But they have no

0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:28.560
<v Speaker 1>right to know what I did there.

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh what a fuck.

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 3>Such a piece of shit.

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 2>So a thing that I say all the time and

0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 2>think about. It's like, yes, of course they're having massive

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:46.400
<v Speaker 2>conspiracies in history, and I'm sure today, but like oftentimes,

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 2>like there isn't like the basic human competency to pull

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.280
<v Speaker 2>off some of the more far fetched, you know, like

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 2>a Pizzagate style thing. You're like, how could everyone cover

0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.920
<v Speaker 2>this up? And then it's like just hearing a story

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>of nineteenth century to twentieth century like attention to details.

0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 1>He's a genius, Like he really is like a genius

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.360
<v Speaker 1>in the sense that like if you saw a character

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 1>execute a plan like this in a movie, you would

0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 1>be like, that's a little far fett that he'd get

0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 1>away with it.

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:18.880
<v Speaker 3>But he did.

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he's he is an evil genius.

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I guess you know what, and it's I

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 2>guess it was from a time when little people were

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.000
<v Speaker 2>less empowered to speak up, yes, because that's the real thing.

0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:30.919
<v Speaker 2>It's like it would be hard to pull off a

0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 2>pizza gate because it's not like the top conspirators would

0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.000
<v Speaker 2>go to jail. But it's like there's kind of be

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>a janitor who's like, what the fuck is this?

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 1>What the fuck's going on there.

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Kids in this basement. Yeah, and that's like less likely

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 2>to happen. That was more controllable back in the day, clearly.

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And even when that it started coming out, there's

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot less of a media landscape. You only get

0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the news from your newspapers. You'll read every newspaper. Most

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.720
<v Speaker 1>people don't much of one newspaper. So if you're a

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.679
<v Speaker 1>guy like Leopold, you've got the money to make the

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 1>press do what you want to a big scam.

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 2>And if I understand my history correctly, which I probably don't,

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>that was a time when the public had more of

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 2>an expectation that media was biased.

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 1>It was just right, well, yeah, this is like a

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of this is right around the time when America

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.359
<v Speaker 1>gets involved in a war with Spain. That's essentially pushed

0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 1>by two different newspaper magnets wanting to sell more papers.

0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:30.840
<v Speaker 1>So like, yeah, the press. I mean, he doesn't have

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.879
<v Speaker 1>a great reputation now, yeah, but even still didn't have

0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.479
<v Speaker 1>a great reputation then, So yeah, it's like a perfect storm.

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 1>But it also is it was a legitimately brilliant scheme,

0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.399
<v Speaker 1>and he did his best to cover his tracks. And

0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>he died in December of nineteen oh nine at the

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 1>age of eighty four, super rich. And did he make

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.200
<v Speaker 1>that billion Well we'll get to that in a minute.

0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.879
<v Speaker 1>What the biography published the next year said that quote.

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Were it not for his private life, his domestic affairs,

0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 1>and his avarice, he would have retained his popularity to

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 1>the very last. Belgium as a nation, with the exception

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 1>of the socialists, would have forgiven him the Congo atrocities. Indeed,

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 1>she has forgiven him, for after all, she is destined

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.359
<v Speaker 1>to benefit by them, and she will not grudge her

0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.359
<v Speaker 1>king the Royal commission he pocketed on the enterprise. And

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 1>this is where again I want to point out that

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.760
<v Speaker 1>in some total there's no one hundred percent agreed upon

0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 1>death toll for Leopold's regiam in the Congo, but the

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 1>likely numbers are between ten and thirteen million, possibly as

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:39.360
<v Speaker 1>high as fifteen million people. And the Congo was definitely

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 1>the bloodiest of any of the colonies in Africa by

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.679
<v Speaker 1>a substantial margin. But they all killed a lot of people,

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:47.160
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of them killed a lot of people

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 1>making rubber. And one of the things that was found

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>out after Leopold's death is that in the bloody French

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>and German colonies that were producing rubber, Leopold owned a

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.439
<v Speaker 1>majority of several of the large rubber making corporates in

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.520
<v Speaker 1>those colonies too, right, so he.

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Was also the first like pan multinational. Right, the corporations

0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 2>can be the conduits for the scumbags, because the corporations

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:15.080
<v Speaker 2>are the scumbags, of course. But Jesus Christ, yeah, so

0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>he's he's he's a real monster. The late king achieved

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 2>his ambition of disinheriting his daughters. He left them only

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:24.119
<v Speaker 2>fifteen million francs, the exact amount he'd inherited from his father.

0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 2>His entire fortune went to Baroness Devaughan, the prostitute Cortison

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 2>that he fell in love with and married. After his death,

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.200
<v Speaker 2>she immediately married Durow, her pimp, and spent the rest

0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.199
<v Speaker 2>of her life living lavishly off the gold made by

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.280
<v Speaker 2>the blood of Congle's labor, which she doesn't come out

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 2>as good as I don't know.

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I kind of like that his inheritance got stolen by

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:50.160
<v Speaker 1>a scheming prostitute and her pimp friend. Yeah, that's better than.

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess if she had murdered him.

0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Her, if she'd strangled him with his own beard jabalize.

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or poisoned. Maybe she did poison him.

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she did poison him. I can't hope, so I

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 1>certainly don't know.

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh what a grim ass tail uck.

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. His biography, the nineteen ten biography summed up Leopold's

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.600
<v Speaker 1>life this way, Leopold the second New Belgium, New Europe

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and new humanity. And like a strong man, he had

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a deep contempt for everything and everybody. He loved his

0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:25.840
<v Speaker 1>country and his own interests. For all love is after

0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:31.439
<v Speaker 1>all selfish. Jesus, it's the Victorian age is a bleak

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:32.240
<v Speaker 1>ass period.

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:35.320
<v Speaker 2>It's also you know, speaking of although it's not exactly

0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 2>the same players, but it's the same types of institutions,

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.720
<v Speaker 2>every one of y'all who whenever this comes out, y'all

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.040
<v Speaker 2>have just enjoyed the royal wedding. Yeah, that shit has

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.440
<v Speaker 2>built off the back of shit, like exactly like this,

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 2>well less.

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Artful than this a lot cool because this is if

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.879
<v Speaker 1>you can like the it's it's up there with the

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Holocaust in terms of like the greatest crimes in human history.

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:07.600
<v Speaker 1>But as a scheme, his planned is it's like almost artwork.

0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 1>It's like watching The Joker and the Good Krysnal and Batman.

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:13.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah pull it.

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.040
<v Speaker 2>But also that one too, where you're like it has

0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:18.840
<v Speaker 2>similar moments of like, I feel like some of these

0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 2>lives are just to do the lie. Yeah, there's not

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.919
<v Speaker 2>even about achieving the aid even need to do that.

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a lot of like the fuck

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:30.720
<v Speaker 2>you do that for? Well, it's crazy and so one

0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>of the more I mean, there's so many fucked up

0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 2>things about this. Yeah, I really recommend reading King Leopold's

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.439
<v Speaker 2>Ghost by Adam Hoschild. It's a great book and it

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.119
<v Speaker 2>really delves into the human misery caused by this regime.

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.159
<v Speaker 2>But you know, you're talking ten to fifteen million people killed,

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 2>millions more left without hands, left maimed, starved like whose

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 2>villages were destroyed. The Congo today is still probably the

0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>least stable state in Africa, or at least one of them. Yeah,

0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 2>because all social order was destroyed. Yeah, swats the poppet

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:06.840
<v Speaker 2>like that. It continues to this day. Leopold's profits, Yeah,

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:12.320
<v Speaker 2>roughly a billion dollars in modern currency. That's bonkers, that's

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, that's fucking nothing for what he did.

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh in terms of right terms of yeah, not a.

0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Billion dollars in nineteen oh nine money, right, iland dollars

0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 1>into day's money is what he got for killing ten

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 1>to fifteen million people and destroying Central Africa.

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 2>That's Jesus. Yeah, he's not even extracting enough wealth, Like

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.680
<v Speaker 2>you could do that just by closing up bookshops.

0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:38.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think a lot of that is because

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:40.840
<v Speaker 1>he had to spend so much money on an army,

0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 1>on policing, the same fighting it because there were a

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:46.440
<v Speaker 1>bunch of rebellions, people who thought back. He had to

0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:48.840
<v Speaker 1>suppress those rebellions, and he had to pay all these

0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:50.960
<v Speaker 1>journalists and like, yeah.

0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:54.160
<v Speaker 2>There you go, fucking capitalists. And he'sn't even profitable.

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:56.160
<v Speaker 3>To be the worst person in his although I.

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Guess that was the second lesson that everyone turned is like, oh,

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 2>the real profit in pr and making people think they

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:03.199
<v Speaker 2>want to do this. Now.

0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:04.840
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you a question that occurred to

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:08.199
<v Speaker 1>me when I finished researching this, and I wonder about this,

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:14.240
<v Speaker 1>is Leopold a worse person than Hitler? Because I can't

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.440
<v Speaker 1>not think about that line in The Big Lebowski where

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 1>what's his name Walter's like, say what you will about

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:25.960
<v Speaker 1>national socialism. At least it's an ethos. Hitler committed crimes

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 1>on a similar, if not much greater scale if you

0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:31.520
<v Speaker 1>include all of the war dead, but he had like

0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.919
<v Speaker 1>an ideology behind it, as opposed to Leopold, who this

0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 1>was never anything but money. There's no hatred, there was

0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 1>no goal, there was no view of the world. It

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:44.800
<v Speaker 1>was purely if I can make money, and killing these

0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 1>people is the fastest way to get it. Yeah, I

0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.399
<v Speaker 1>don't care what happens to them because I want money.

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>And it was also separate. I mean, obviously, I guess

0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 2>it's just different things.

0:27:57.160 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>They are very different things. Although you look at the Holocaust,

0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:03.359
<v Speaker 1>and this is something that's often glossed over when people

0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>talk about the Holocaust is how much of it was

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 1>a money making endeavor from the German state because they

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>were literally mining people to death, but in terms of

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:13.640
<v Speaker 1>like taking their hair, taking the gold fillings out of them,

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 1>taking their businesses beforehand, and taking their property. So I

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.359
<v Speaker 1>mean you have with most of like and with really

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.640
<v Speaker 1>with every great genocide, because like if you look at

0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:24.200
<v Speaker 1>the Rwandan genocide, there was a lot of financial motivation there,

0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 1>people wanting each other's farms and what.

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have to imagine like those are the things

0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 2>that allow I mean, like all look but like all

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 2>conflict too. It's like like especially anything sectarian or religious,

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 2>like the Crusades. You know, you can make an economic

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 2>case for the Crusades or or colonialism or at large,

0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>like all that is sort of possible. I think the

0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 2>thing with Leopold's Evil is as as we've discussed already.

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 2>It's like, though not in the same degree, anyone listening

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:59.120
<v Speaker 2>to this on a podcast thing and on a yeah

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>exactly is complicit in something along Leopold's vector, whereas it's

0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>fewer of us listening to this podcast are complicit in

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 2>some type of thing that Hitler is involved in. So

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I think it behooves us to say Hitler is more

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 2>evil because we don't want to be part you know, like, yeah,

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:24.040
<v Speaker 2>the banality, I mean, look, not banality, but the you know,

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.520
<v Speaker 2>the it's in the direction of banality.

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think you're onto something that's great there. And

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that's why the idea of the banality of

0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 1>evil is so important is because Hitler is it's so

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 1>easy to see the evil and Hitler because he was

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.880
<v Speaker 1>he was showy with like he's the most showy villain

0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>in all of history. Leopold was a weird old man

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 1>who had a stupid beard and sat in his office

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.080
<v Speaker 1>and never shot anybody, and wrote a tricycle to his

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:52.600
<v Speaker 1>mistress and was just this weird old dude who was

0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:55.800
<v Speaker 1>happy to orchestrate one of like the great crimes in

0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:59.120
<v Speaker 1>human history just for some cashness pocket And that's scarier.

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you imagine, like he doesn't come up with

0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:04.480
<v Speaker 2>the hands for bullets scheme. No, he's just does they

0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.800
<v Speaker 2>need to We can't let them have bullets. We have

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.800
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that like we're accounting for all the bullets,

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 2>that they're not saving them up for a rebellion.

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 1>What can we do? Oh, well, we just make sure

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 1>they prove to us they're using the bullets for a

0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:18.560
<v Speaker 1>good reason when they fire them. How about we have

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 1>them bringing a hand. Great, and that's probably the end

0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:21.960
<v Speaker 1>of the country proof.

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 2>And then the first person bring a million.

0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:26.800
<v Speaker 1>People lose hands. Yeah, Like, then a crime on an

0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 1>unspeakable scale happens. And he's just like sitting at home

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:31.440
<v Speaker 1>being like, boy, I wonder why productions down this week.

0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:33.239
<v Speaker 2>But he can also be like, I'm not the one

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>that came up with the hands thing. Oh, it's a shame.

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>He can even be like, all the hand things are

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:37.800
<v Speaker 2>real shame.

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a real shame. One of my new guys,

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 1>you know these you know the walloons. Yeah, you put

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:44.760
<v Speaker 1>him in charge of something and they mess it up.

0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 2>I hate that we have to do this, but of

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:49.160
<v Speaker 2>course we do need that rubber. Yeah, that's that's the

0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 2>thing that you know. And look, that's a version of

0:30:51.800 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 2>every one of us tells ourselves every fucking day. Yeah.

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>So that's why I think most people would say Hitler

0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:02.160
<v Speaker 2>is a worse, more evil, because we don't want to

0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>be complicit in our own evil.

0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, this is Robert Evans from the future. I

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 1>realized that this podcast was a teeny bit incomplete. There

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 1>was some more information I wanted to give out, so

0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 1>I gained access to a time machine and went back

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:19.560
<v Speaker 1>in time to record it. It was either fixed the

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 1>podcast or stopped nine to eleven. Hopefully I made the

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 1>right decision. But I wanted to say a little bit

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 1>more about the Chacota, which we talked about a little

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 1>bit in this podcast. That's the hippo hyde whip that

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 1>was the primary disciplinary tool in the Congo Free State.

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 1>The book King Leopold's Ghost makes a big deal out

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 1>of the Chacota, and it's probably true that the Belgians

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:42.120
<v Speaker 1>under Leopold whipped more people to death than any other

0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.000
<v Speaker 1>regime in history, but that book also points out that

0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>whipping people to death or nearly to death was basically

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 1>the bedrock that colonialism was founded upon. It relates the

0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 1>story of a guy named Roger Casement, who we didn't

0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:54.440
<v Speaker 1>get to talk to you in this podcast. He's a

0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:56.480
<v Speaker 1>very interesting dude. He's one of the men who investigated

0:31:56.520 --> 0:32:00.120
<v Speaker 1>atrocities in the Congo. He also wound up investigating of

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.200
<v Speaker 1>atrocities in the Amazon at a place called Putumayo, where

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 1>the Peruvian Amazon rubber company had been caught basically enslaving

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and murdering people to produce even more rubber, and this

0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 1>was for I think the British. It was mostly a

0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:14.720
<v Speaker 1>British owned company, although it was like a corporation with

0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different sort of stockholders behind it. And

0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:21.640
<v Speaker 1>the Peruvian Amazon Rubber Company dealt out punishments with a

0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 1>whip of their own that was actually a tapeer hide whip,

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>but it was similar to the Jacota in its effect.

0:32:27.600 --> 0:32:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Roughly thirty thousand indigenous people in the Amazon died mining

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:34.640
<v Speaker 1>rubber for that company. Whips, it turns out, were basically

0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the glue that made colonialism possible. I found one book

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.200
<v Speaker 1>on slavery in the British West Indies published in eighteen

0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, that admits that whips were quote the main

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 1>spring of the agricultural system in that region of the Empire.

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Whips were also critical to the French colonies as far

0:32:48.880 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 1>back as the seventeen hundreds, when a visitor to the

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:54.040
<v Speaker 1>French Antilles noticed that the use of whips was quote

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.760
<v Speaker 1>always excessive and barbarous, with the potential of maiming the

0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 1>victim by assaulting his private parts or even killing him,

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 1>if not instantly as has already been the case, in

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.040
<v Speaker 1>due course, as is often the case. So whipping and

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>slavery go hand in hand. Obviously, I don't think most

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 1>people are surprised by that, but I think a lot

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:11.040
<v Speaker 1>of people would be surprised to know that Europeans didn't

0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>stop whipping subject people once slavery was over. The Congo

0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>and the Amazon are proof of that, but the atomic

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 1>bomb is actually even more proof. After Leopold died, the

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Belgians continued to control the Congo region and they moved

0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 1>on from rubber farming to mining. In the first six

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 1>months of nineteen twenty, a single gold mine is recorded

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 1>as issuing over twenty six thousand lashes to his workers,

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 1>more than eight lashes for every single African quote employed there.

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>I say, you know, employed in quotation marks because the

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Belgians kept right on using forced labor, as did the

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 1>British in Kenya up and into the modern era. By

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 1>World War II, Belgium required one hundred and twenty days

0:33:49.320 --> 0:33:52.000
<v Speaker 1>per year of labor for each adult male inhabitant of

0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 1>the Congo region, and it turns out that eighty percent

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:56.840
<v Speaker 1>of the uranium mine to make the bombs dropped on

0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Hiroshima and Nagasaki came from Congolese mines that used force labor,

0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 1>which means we can thank the Chacote for the first

0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:07.160
<v Speaker 1>atom bombs. The British are also famous for flogging their

0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 1>colonial subjects well into the middle of the twentieth century.

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:11.640
<v Speaker 1>By the nineteen twenties, Kenya was the colony where the

0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 1>British used the most corporal punishment, or as they called it,

0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 1>rough justice. Flogging was seen to be necessary in order

0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 1>to deal with the quote raw native Africans, who were

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.440
<v Speaker 1>perhaps so raw because the British regularly whipped them bloody.

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:27.400
<v Speaker 1>There were attempts in the nineteen thirties to alter British

0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 1>penal laws in the colony to be less brutal, but

0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 1>they didn't exactly stop the problem of white colonists treating

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.320
<v Speaker 1>black natives like shit. Brutality in the Kenyan colony eventually

0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.760
<v Speaker 1>led to the Mau Mau Uprising, which started in nineteen

0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 1>fifty two when a bunch of rebels calling themselves the

0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Malmou killed thirty two white people. This made England go

0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:46.640
<v Speaker 1>bat shit crazy. The English forces rounded up one hundred

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and fifty thousand Kenyans and threw them into concentration camps,

0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.560
<v Speaker 1>where they were starved and beaten regularly. One survivor recalled,

0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 1>we were forced to do work, carrying bricks to build

0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.080
<v Speaker 1>a school. We were beaten if we moved too slowly.

0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.320
<v Speaker 1>It was very hard work. They would just flog everyone.

0:34:59.320 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 1>At times four or five guards with whips would come

0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:04.359
<v Speaker 1>into the cell. So at least twelve thousand people were

0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:07.239
<v Speaker 1>killed during the Mammou uprising. Although it's hard to say

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:09.080
<v Speaker 1>how many of them died from being whipped, the brutalizing

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:11.440
<v Speaker 1>effect of whipping people certainly had an impact on the

0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 1>British men who did it. A Kenyan judge who investigated whipping,

0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>torture and murder at one British interrogation center compared it

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 1>to a Nazi labor camp and said, quote from the

0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 1>brutalizing of flogging, it is only a step to taking

0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 1>a life without qualm. So I just thought this is

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:29.520
<v Speaker 1>a good information to know. People talk about colonialism a lot,

0:35:29.560 --> 0:35:31.760
<v Speaker 1>and it gets, you know, a lot of well deserved

0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.800
<v Speaker 1>harsh criticism these days. But I think that the people

0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 1>who rightly view it as a horrible historical crime also

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.600
<v Speaker 1>tend to kind of push it further back in history

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:43.680
<v Speaker 1>and sort of assume that most of the worst stuff

0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>was done and you know, the seventeen and eighteen hundreds.

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:50.520
<v Speaker 1>The reality is that colonialism was still exporting wealth from

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:55.760
<v Speaker 1>African nations, you know, into Europe well into the twentieth century,

0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.000
<v Speaker 1>and that the European nations were using brutal and in

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:02.319
<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways midia evil justice measures in order

0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:05.800
<v Speaker 1>to keep the colonies compliant. So, uh, there's your happy

0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:08.920
<v Speaker 1>little reminder that not only was colonialism and nightmare, but

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:12.040
<v Speaker 1>it is a nightmare that happened recently enough that a

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:14.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of people are still alive to remember it today.

0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh So just keep that in mind, I guess. And

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:21.719
<v Speaker 1>now I'm going to use my magical time powers to

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 1>go back to you know, when Andrew and I were

0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 1>sitting in the room. Yeah, and we don't want to

0:36:27.440 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 1>We also don't want to acknowledge like when you go

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to Belgium, which I love Belgium. Yeah, and there a

0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 1>couple of times, beautiful country, best beer I've ever had

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 1>in the world, gorgeous giant buildings. Yeah, many in like

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the cities and stuff like ain't really old, beautiful museums

0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, many of which are built on Congo money. Yeah,

0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and so you don't and and like you we're shitting

0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:54.600
<v Speaker 1>on Belgium here. Yeah, but that's like all of Europe

0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:56.399
<v Speaker 1>you go to, you go to uh.

0:36:57.600 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the American North yeah yeah, like that's everything

0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.719
<v Speaker 2>was built on the backs of that shit. Yeah. So

0:37:05.960 --> 0:37:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and you know there's there were good people at all

0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 2>times being like.

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Ah it sucks, this is really messed up.

0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:13.719
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but that's the same ever you pick up

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:15.520
<v Speaker 2>an iPhone and you're like, oh, it sucks that someone

0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:16.640
<v Speaker 2>had for this.

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I do need it though, well, and there are and

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.040
<v Speaker 1>this is again the thing that Leopold's ghost is a

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:23.239
<v Speaker 1>good job of going into. There are the heroes in

0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>this story. There's the guy like Colonel Washington who goes

0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:28.200
<v Speaker 1>there and right, there's guys like Morel who are who

0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 1>like who don't even see it firsthand, but put it together. Yeah,

0:37:31.520 --> 0:37:34.840
<v Speaker 1>like this can't stand. I have to do something and

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.239
<v Speaker 1>I hope that like, like that's the we got to

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 1>focus on Leopold in this both because his story is

0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 1>the blueprint of every terrible person who came after him.

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:45.839
<v Speaker 1>He really is the first modern monster world like head

0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:47.759
<v Speaker 1>of State, the first one to use pr in a

0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:51.239
<v Speaker 1>really modern way, right, But it's important. It's just as

0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.080
<v Speaker 1>important to think about the guys like Morell, who are

0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 1>probably more relevant to our own lives because they point

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.480
<v Speaker 1>out like, well, you can do something.

0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you don't have to just say it's a shame.

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly, and it might take fifteen years. Yeah you can,

0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:05.960
<v Speaker 3>it's right.

0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, these guys will still win to some extent,

0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 1>but you can lowerre the margins.

0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:12.399
<v Speaker 3>By which they win.

0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:15.560
<v Speaker 2>You can cut into their profits. Well, right, it's just

0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:17.799
<v Speaker 2>a battle. All you can do is make it less profitable.

0:38:18.080 --> 0:38:18.319
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow, well the Capitalist Revolution.

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Great, that is our podcast.

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:23.560
<v Speaker 3>For the week.

0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Andrew, you want to plug your pluggables?

0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, well just please listen to you. Is this racist?

0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I used to think it was the most depressing podcast

0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 2>on the internet, but not anymore.

0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 1>And I'm Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter

0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:40.799
<v Speaker 1>at at I Write Okay. You can find this podcast

0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 1>on the internet at behind the Bastards dot com. You

0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:46.120
<v Speaker 1>can find us on social media at at Bastards Pod.

0:38:47.200 --> 0:38:49.360
<v Speaker 1>I've got a book you can find on Amazon, a

0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:52.759
<v Speaker 1>Brief History of Vice. So yeah, check my stuff out,

0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:55.760
<v Speaker 1>check us out. We will be back every single Tuesday

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:57.719
<v Speaker 1>from now until the heat death of the universe with

0:38:57.800 --> 0:38:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a new bastard. So check out as next to you

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.360
<v Speaker 1>though right, yes, can't wait yep okay.

0:39:05.160 --> 0:39:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:11.480
<v Speaker 3>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:14.879
<v Speaker 3>dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 3>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.