1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Also media. Hey everyone, Robert Evans here, and you know 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: it's another holiday week. This is not a holiday I 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: tend to celebrate, but it is a holiday that our 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: company gives us off. And I like my team not 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: having to work. It's also good to not have to work. 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: And when we drop episodes on weeks like this, it 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: means you basically have to double up during the week 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: before the week after, which causes a lot of stress 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: that isn't necessary when you're trying to have everyone be 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: able to relax. So this week we are doing another 11 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: rewind our infamous and beloved episodes on King Leopold, the 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: Second of Belgium. So tuck in and enjoy yourselves and 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: enjoy a real terrible story of a real terrible piece 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: of shit. I hope you all have a good week, 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: regardless of what you do during it. Hello friends, I'm 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Robert Evans and this is Behind the Bastards, the show 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: where we tell you everything you don't know about the 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: very worst people in his And this is part two 19 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: of our episode on Leopold, the Second, King of Belgium. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: In part one, we sort of went over how Leopold 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: conned his way into becoming king of the Congo, how 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: he tricked the locals into signing over their rights to 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: their land, and how he conscripted thousands of them into 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: a slave army. So now we're going to get back 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: into all that and the rest of the terrible, terrible 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: story of the Belgian Congo. So the first five or 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: so years of the Congo project are great for Leopold. 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: He's in total control, richer than God, and most of 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: Europe still believes he's improving a lot of the Congolese people. 30 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: But in around eighteen ninety, a black journalist named Colonel 31 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: and he's not really a colonel, George Washington Williams saw 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: the actual Congo. So he didn't like take the tour 33 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: where you get led through the nice parts of the Congo, like, 34 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: he went on foot and he got in there and 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: he saw the fucking nightmare that Leopold had built. And 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: he wrote an article called an open Letter to King Leopold, 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: and it was the first expos of Leopold's blood soak, 38 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: rubber regime. William's document is remarkable because he's basically the 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: only person up to that point who actually sat down 40 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: with African people and asked them what was going on 41 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: in the Congo. He retraced a lot of Stanley's rat 42 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: along the Congo and actually talked to some of the 43 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: people who'd signed treaties giving their land to Leopold. He 44 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: learned that a great number of chiefs had been tricked 45 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: into signing things with magic tricks. One of the tricks 46 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: was that, like Stanley, had bought a bunch of electric 47 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: batteries in London, and when when attached to the arm 48 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: under the coat, communicated with a band of ribbon which 49 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: passed over the palm of the white brother's hand, And 50 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: when he gave the black brother a cordial grasp of 51 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: the hand, the black brother was greatly surprised to find 52 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: his white brother was so strong that he nearly knocked 53 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: him off his feet. When the native inquired about the 54 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: disparity of strength between himself and his white brother, he 55 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: was told that the white man could pull up trees 56 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: and perform the most prodigious feats of strength. So he 57 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: did a hand buzzer, He did a hand buzzer, and 58 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: these like, if you don't know what electricity is, yeah, 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: he's just some sort of superman. Let's sign the peace treaty. 60 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh, shit. 61 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 62 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: Another trick was to use a magnifying glass to light 63 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: a cigar and then claim that white people had sun 64 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: powers and he'll burn up your villain, basically like I 65 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: have power of the sun and a lake. 66 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Riloge on fire. Yeah yeah, God, what a fucking bluff. 67 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. So Williams writes this open letter. He 68 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: frames it as like presuming Leopold doesn't know how terrible 69 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: things are. He writes about the taking of hands and 70 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: like all of the death and the people who are 71 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: being like starved to death as porters carrying. Is this 72 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: like sort of like modest proposal style, like of course, 73 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: you know, but it's an indictment or do I think 74 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: it is. 75 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a satirical bent. Yeah, yeah, 76 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: and yeah. So Williams publishes this that but unfortunately he 77 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: dies not long after writing the letter, and Leopold's able 78 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: to clamp down on any kind of outrage after for 79 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: a little while. But seven or eight years later, another 80 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: guy who's an amateur journalist named Morel stumbles upon the conspiracy. 81 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: So he was working as a mid level employee for 82 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: a shipping line that had the contract to handle all 83 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: shipping in the Congo Free State, and so every so 84 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: often Morell would get sent over to Belgium and he 85 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: would report on what's going into and out of the 86 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: port of Antwerp. And so he realizes that the only 87 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: thing coming out of the Congo into Europe is rubber, 88 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: just shitloads of rubber, impossible quantities of it, larger quantities 89 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: than have been reported in fact. And the only thing 90 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: that's going being sent out to the Congo rather than 91 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: trade are just guns and money, and a lot more 92 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: guns than you'd need for any kind of philanthropic enterprise. 93 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: O man, Yeah, so a wire, exactly exactly. So he 94 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: starts he never actually goes to the Congo, but he 95 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 1: just starts digging, and he starts talking to other people 96 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: who have worked there, and basically he starts a newspaper 97 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: that is focused entirely on exposing King Leopold's crimes to 98 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: the world and starts publishing it all throughout Europe. He's 99 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: active all over the world and basically becomes like the 100 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: Congo equivalent of Wiki Leagues. So all these guys who 101 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: had worked in Leopold's Congo and felt bad were running 102 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: to him and be like, I saw this, this is 103 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: what happened. Here's some documents I managed. 104 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: To Well, it's also like you're like, yeah, this is 105 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: what wikloks was supposed to be, Like this is what 106 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: it could be. And this is also why people like 107 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: that have legitimacy because and why conspiracies have legitimacy because 108 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: guess what there have been Yeah, big complex conspiracy. 109 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: Gi gantic conspiracies. So Morrell starts this newspaper and he 110 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: winds up creating was probably the first modern human rights organization, 111 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: the Congo Reform Association, which is dedicated to stopping this 112 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: this fucking nightmare in the Congo. King Leopold responded by 113 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: inventing the first modern international pr campaign. He bought a 114 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: shitload of journalists of his own, and he had them 115 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: all right puff pieces about how great the Congo actually was. 116 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: He would pay for journalists to go on lavish, carefully 117 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: controlled trips through the Congo. He'd give them exclusive interviews 118 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: when they got back, and he'd use his network of 119 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: agents to help them place their articles in newspapers. He 120 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: got journalists in the New York Times to write quotes 121 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: like I have witnessed more atrocities in London streets than 122 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: I have ever seen in the Congo. He would pay 123 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: for journalists to give public speeches, and he would lobby politicians. 124 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: Leopold's regime was heavily criticized for its widespread use of 125 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: something called the jacote, which is a hippo hyde whip, 126 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: which was used to punish laborers. Prisoners were often lashed 127 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: to death by it, and it's possible that, like literally 128 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: several million people were killed with this whip. So Leopold 129 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: starts catching flak for this, and he decides to distract 130 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: attention from his whipping millions of people to death by 131 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: sending journalists to British colonies and having them write lyrist 132 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: exposees of abuses in British colonies. So his pet reporters 133 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: would write stories about like how the British were using 134 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: whips on prisoners in South Africa or something terrible they'd 135 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: done to people in India, and then yeah. 136 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: Exactly Hilary style, that's exactly it. 137 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: Like I said, he invented the modern art of being shitty, 138 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: like he's he's doing, Like what about ism on a 139 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: massive scale? 140 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: Did he have like an antecedent for like the media, 141 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: like playing the media, or did he just make all this. 142 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: I think he invented this playbook because other people had. Obviously, 143 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: every the media is existed for a while, other people 144 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: have used the media to one agree or other. But 145 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: he is the first person that I've ever run across 146 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: who's using it in the same way politicians use it today, 147 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: in the same way world leaders use it today, Like 148 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: this is a very modern pr campaign. He buys he 149 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: uses his Congo earnings to buy the editors of a 150 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: bunch of newspapers, including the London Times. So he's spending 151 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: like thousands of dollars on just yeah, owning editors so 152 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: that number one, they'll kill stories that are negative to 153 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: the Congo Free State, and so that he can place 154 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: his positive stories once he gets like positive journalists to go, 155 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, have a tour of the Congo and then 156 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: come and write about it. And this is all basically 157 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: a delaying action. Leopold knows eventually the truth is going 158 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: to get out, but he's playing for time. He's got 159 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: twenty years before rubber stops being as profits. 160 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: He doesn't need to do this forever, he just needs 161 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: to do it for a little while. 162 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: He just wants to suck as much money as he 163 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: can out of the situation, and eventually the sheer way 164 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: to facts did change public opinion against him, but it 165 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: took like twenty years. At one point, Leopold is said 166 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: to have seen a cartoon of himself in a German newspaper, 167 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: and in the cartoon he's cutting the hands off of Africans, 168 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: and he reportedly laughed at that and said, cut off hands. 169 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: That's idiotic. I'd cut off all the rest of them, 170 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: but not the hands. That's the thing I need in 171 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: the Congo. So he's a real piece of work. Now, 172 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety five, Leopold had started dating a sixteen 173 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: year old prostitute, Nade Caroline. This is when the Congo 174 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: is that at the height of its rubber production, so 175 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: he'd been hooked up to her via a pimp named Durou, 176 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: who was a former officer in the French army. We 177 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: know now that Caroline's whole relationship with Leopold was likely 178 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: a con game, an incredibly successful scheme to snatch his inheritance. 179 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: But at the time, King Leopold, blood drenched, absolute ruler 180 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: of the Congo, was smitten with this teenage prostitute Adam 181 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: Hoschild writes that quote to the extent that someone like 182 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: Leopold was capable of love. This teenage prostitute proved to 183 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: be the love of his life, So he's really he 184 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: got it for this girl hard. He names her. The 185 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: barrenness of Vaughan and the unseemliness of their relationship isn't 186 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: really acknowledged in the nineteen ten biography. It just calls 187 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: her one of the king's quote favorites, and it dances 188 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: around the fact that they got together while the Queen 189 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: was still alive. In general, it refers to the King's 190 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: constant parade of mistresses as distractions. So yeah, Carolyn went 191 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: on to write a bit about their life together, and 192 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: she gives this additional insight into the kind of man 193 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: Leopold was. Quote every evening a steam launch took the 194 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: King to appear, leading to my villa through a subterranean passage. 195 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: Speaking about this, I can't help remarking on the extraordinary 196 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: taste of the King for everything which had a secret 197 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 1: and mysterious character, anyone who could sell him anyhow, so 198 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: long as it was built on the site of an 199 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: abandoned quarry, or if it had a secret staircase. So 200 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: basically he's gone from being too cheap to rinse his 201 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: fucking like a handkerchief. 202 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: He's like a cartoon villain. 203 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, to like a cartoon ville with like lairs built 204 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: into mountain side. It's a hidden boat like grottos and stuff. 205 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: Jesus. 206 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Carolyn seems to have his number, so she's 207 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: both got him on madly in love with her, but 208 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: she also like she takes advantage of his hypochondriasm or 209 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: whatever you call that, Like whenever she wanted him to 210 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: leave her alone, she'd pretend to have a cough, right, 211 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: and then he'd hide for days because he was scared 212 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: of She's she's my favorite person in this story. 213 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: She's Yeah, this gy locked down. 214 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: So the King is sort of the nineteen hundreds come around, 215 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: is in his late sixties, and he takes to visiting 216 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: his teenage mistress in a large tricycle because again, yeah, 217 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: he's getting. 218 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: More and more to get. 219 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: Yeah for the geno tidle murderer. Yeah, he's riding a 220 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: big tricycle to hang out with his teenage girlfriend. 221 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: Just as bad everyone who every white guy riding a 222 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: tricycle with big old mustache. 223 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: You are all as bad as king shit. Yeah, so 224 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: he's riding a big tricycle, he drinks enough but hot water, 225 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: and he starts referring to himself in the third person 226 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: at this point in time. So, yeah, he's a weirdo. 227 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: He's not entirely past his old ways at this point. 228 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: There's like a story of the time his mistress bought 229 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: a new hat for him and gives it to him, 230 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: and he like flies into a rage, and he only 231 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: calms down when she explains him that she got it 232 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: for a bargain, that it was like a deal, that 233 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: she bought it a quarter of its value. So like 234 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: he's still he's just he's. 235 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: Just a weirdo. 236 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a weird guy. He's like a weird old 237 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: rich letcher who's just knows what's going on in the 238 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: congo but doesn't like. 239 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: I mean, look, here's the other part. The other way 240 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 2: to look at that, I suppose is maybe not in 241 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: such a direct degree, but as Americans, we all have 242 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: similar types of blood on our hands that we're electing 243 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: to not think about. Yeah, but we're not we're not 244 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: driving it in the same way, but. 245 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: We absolutely like we all have these phones that we know, 246 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: are made by people who hate the work that they're doing, 247 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: and they're like include minerals that are mined from like 248 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: conflict ridden nations and often use slave labor in one 249 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: And we know that, like the fabric in our clothes 250 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: is often there's slave labor at some point in the 251 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: production line. Leopold knows that because he's signing the orders 252 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: and saying no, cut off more hands, cut off more hands, 253 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: and he's just it's just amazing to me that he's 254 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: able to do that all day, every day and then 255 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: write a tricycle to his teenage girlfriend's house. 256 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's it's amazing what you're saying. But to me, 257 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: I'm like, it's a little bit just degrees. I mean, look, 258 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: we're all able to. 259 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: It is degrees. We're all able to compartmentalize the misery 260 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: that's necessary for our comfort. 261 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: Oh yea, but fuck this guy, Yeah, fuck this guy. 262 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: One of the things that was interesting to me reading 263 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: that pro Leopold biography is that, well it does talk 264 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: about ten yeah, nineteen ten, the air after he died. 265 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: He's a spoiler, So this biography of him, it's very positive. 266 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: It talks about how there's atrocity, but it always kind 267 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: of doesn't talk about the detail. It just said, yeah, 268 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: he definitely committed atrocities, but look at this or look 269 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: at how he was. Look at how and everyone did. 270 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: Is like everyone did, and we'll get to that in 271 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: a little. What is interesting to me is that this 272 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: biography does condemn his mistress for capitalizing on the Congo. 273 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: Sure, it notes. 274 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: That she was called the Queen of the Congo by 275 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: the people of Belgium, for she was to benefit largely 276 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: by the atrocities committed in the Free State, where sweating 277 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: and bleeding natives labored so as to accumulate millions for 278 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: the royal favorite. So like he again, he doesn't really 279 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: attack Leopold ever, Like he's like, yeah, he did some 280 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: bad stuff. But this biographer goes off on her mistress 281 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: for like taking money from him. That's that's blood money, 282 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: which like it is blood money. But like she's the 283 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: least objectionable person in this situation. 284 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah she has a little milania. Ask I 285 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 2: suppose she is, and she maybe knew more what she 286 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: was getting into at the top. 287 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, she probably knew less about the Congo because, like 288 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: I doubt just a rich guy. Yeah, she just wanted 289 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: to marry a rich guy like I doubt he doesn't 290 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: seem like kind of guy. We've talked to his mistress 291 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: about the hands or the riks that they were murdering 292 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: people with, and it's at the time, especially probably easy 293 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: to ignore. Yeah, forget about it. Yeah, you don't share 294 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff with your yeah, especially not 295 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: your teenage child bride. 296 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: No. No, And as the teenage child bride to just feel like, 297 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: I don't read those books. Yeah, I don't read that article. Yeah. 298 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. So in the early nineteen hundreds, more and more 299 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: stories of abuse in the Congo hit the world press. 300 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: People actually started to take notice and care. They read 301 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: about things like an entire towns worth of boys being 302 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: giving fifty lashes each, which is a fatal sentence for 303 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: laughing in the presence of a white man. In nineteen 304 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: oh four, one of the rubber companies in the Congo 305 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: put one of its own men on trial, mostly to 306 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: show that they were trying to do something about all 307 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: of the horrible crimes. The guy, Charles Cadron, was accused 308 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: of murdering at least one hundred and twenty two Africans. 309 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: The case wound up revealing a bunch of fucked up 310 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: details about like how all the hostage taking and the 311 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: handtaking and stuff actually worked. But Caudrone was released due 312 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: to quote extenuating circumstances. The court said that he'd had 313 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: to contend with quote great difficulties under which Caudron found 314 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: himself accomplishing his mission in the midst of a population 315 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: absolutely resistant to any idea of work in which respects 316 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: no other law than force and knows no other means 317 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: of persuasion than terror. So yeah, yeah, they were asking 318 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: for it defense. They were asking for it works. 319 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: It also still works today, Kainda. 320 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: It does, but it was it was stopping. This is 321 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: at the point where it was working less and less 322 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: in the Congo, and in the early nineteen hundreds, Leopold 323 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: starts dealing with more and more resistance to his ideas, 324 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: both in the Congo and at home. So this is 325 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: also kind of the point of which socialism is starting 326 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: to rise. And socialists obviously aren't big fans of kings. 327 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: Leopold declared himself a mortal enemy of socialism. He fought 328 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: against the universal right to vote for all Belgians. 329 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: Still on the playbook yeah, both of those things. Yep. 330 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh two, the Belgian Labor Party called a 331 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: general strike and Leopold called for it to be brutally stopped. 332 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: The strikers were fired upon by city guards and eight 333 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: people were killed. The massacre was a calculated message to 334 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: the socialists, don't fuck with the money train. Leopold was 335 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: willing to kill a hell of a lot more than 336 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: eight people to keep the money coming. In Hashchild's book 337 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: relates one six week campaign in the Congo that killed 338 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: quote over nine hundred natives, men, women, and children in 339 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: order to add twenty tons of rubber a month to 340 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: one region's productivity. So that gives you an idea of 341 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: the kind of calculus he's making. 342 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's how I mean. Right, it's just lives 343 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: for rubber. Yeah, it just lives for rubber has a 344 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: commodity price. 345 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. I have to point out that none of the 346 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: revelations brutality did much to hurt Leopold's popularity at home 347 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: in Belgium. He was growing less popular and even hated 348 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: in a lot of Europe. But even today there are 349 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: Belgian museums that proudly talk about his anti slavery campaigns 350 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: that ignore the whole genocide thing. The crimes against humanity 351 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: didn't hurt Leeopold's legacy. The only thing Belgium couldn't forgive 352 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: him for was being a shitty dad and having a mistress. 353 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh four, Leopold's daughter Stephanie sued her father, 354 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: the king, for keeping her chunk of her mother's inheritance. 355 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: Leopold fought in court for the right to deny his 356 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: children their inheritance, and in fact denied them any wealth 357 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: or property even after his death. Around this time, a 358 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: Belgian cabinet minister noted that quote, the king has but 359 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: two dreams, to die a billionaire and to disinherit his daughters. 360 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,239 Speaker 3: I mean, what father doesn't want that? 361 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot ways kind of cool, always kind 362 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 2: of cool. Wow. 363 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: So in nineteen oh six, King Leopold finally marries the Baroness. 364 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: They have two sons. His second son was born with 365 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: a malformed arm that just sort of ended in a 366 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: stump with no hand. Obviously, some people suggested this might 367 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: be a judgment from God for all the millions of 368 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: hands that Leopold ordered severed, which is almost more fucked 369 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: up if you think about the morality behind Like, Okay, 370 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: this guy cut off millions of people's hands, let's fuck 371 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: up his innocent baby's hand. 372 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not how you do that, if you got well. 373 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: First of all, that is definitely how God do that. 374 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: God is a little punchy on the messages. 375 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, God, God ain't great with making sure these people 376 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: get their just desserts. Yeah, yeah, because right, because it's 377 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: so funny. It's like all these like just so kind 378 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: of stories where God is just a little like tricky metaphor, man, Like, well, 379 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: you didn't expect this, did. 380 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,239 Speaker 3: You didn't think God would do that? 381 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh, just God, get it right, man. 382 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, speaking of hands, why don't you use both 383 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: of them to order the products that we are about 384 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: to advertise. 385 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: Here they go. 386 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 3: And we're back. 387 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: So the general and seemliness of the king's young bride 388 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and the disinheritance of his daughters meant the public sort 389 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: of deserted Leopold. Once the human rights campaign against his 390 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: atrocities really took off. In nineteen oh eight, King Leopold 391 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: was forced to bequeath his control of the Congo to 392 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: the Belgian government. In exchange, they paid for the colonies 393 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: one hundred and ten million francs worth of debt, most 394 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: of which had been accrued because Leopold used the Free 395 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: State as a bank to buy gifts for his mistresses. 396 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: Before he hands over control of the colony, he'd ruled 397 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: with an iron fist for more than twenty years. Leopold 398 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: has all of the Congo state records burned. I will 399 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: give them my Congo, he said, But they have no 400 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: right to know what I did there. 401 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: Oh what a fuck. 402 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: Such a piece of shit. 403 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: So a thing that I say all the time and 404 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: think about. It's like, yes, of course they're having massive 405 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 2: conspiracies in history, and I'm sure today, but like oftentimes, 406 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: like there isn't like the basic human competency to pull 407 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: off some of the more far fetched, you know, like 408 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: a Pizzagate style thing. You're like, how could everyone cover 409 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 2: this up? And then it's like just hearing a story 410 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: of nineteenth century to twentieth century like attention to details. 411 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: He's a genius, Like he really is like a genius 412 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: in the sense that like if you saw a character 413 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: execute a plan like this in a movie, you would 414 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: be like, that's a little far fett that he'd get 415 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: away with it. 416 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 3: But he did. 417 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's he is an evil genius. 418 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess you know what, and it's I 419 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: guess it was from a time when little people were 420 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: less empowered to speak up, yes, because that's the real thing. 421 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: It's like it would be hard to pull off a 422 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: pizza gate because it's not like the top conspirators would 423 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: go to jail. But it's like there's kind of be 424 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 2: a janitor who's like, what the fuck is this? 425 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: What the fuck's going on there. 426 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: Kids in this basement. Yeah, and that's like less likely 427 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: to happen. That was more controllable back in the day, clearly. 428 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And even when that it started coming out, there's 429 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot less of a media landscape. You only get 430 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: the news from your newspapers. You'll read every newspaper. Most 431 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: people don't much of one newspaper. So if you're a 432 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: guy like Leopold, you've got the money to make the 433 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: press do what you want to a big scam. 434 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: And if I understand my history correctly, which I probably don't, 435 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: that was a time when the public had more of 436 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 2: an expectation that media was biased. 437 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: It was just right, well, yeah, this is like a 438 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: lot of this is right around the time when America 439 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: gets involved in a war with Spain. That's essentially pushed 440 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: by two different newspaper magnets wanting to sell more papers. 441 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: So like, yeah, the press. I mean, he doesn't have 442 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: a great reputation now, yeah, but even still didn't have 443 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,479 Speaker 1: a great reputation then, So yeah, it's like a perfect storm. 444 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: But it also is it was a legitimately brilliant scheme, 445 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: and he did his best to cover his tracks. And 446 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: he died in December of nineteen oh nine at the 447 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: age of eighty four, super rich. And did he make 448 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: that billion Well we'll get to that in a minute. 449 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: What the biography published the next year said that quote. 450 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: Were it not for his private life, his domestic affairs, 451 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: and his avarice, he would have retained his popularity to 452 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: the very last. Belgium as a nation, with the exception 453 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: of the socialists, would have forgiven him the Congo atrocities. Indeed, 454 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: she has forgiven him, for after all, she is destined 455 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: to benefit by them, and she will not grudge her 456 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: king the Royal commission he pocketed on the enterprise. And 457 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: this is where again I want to point out that 458 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: in some total there's no one hundred percent agreed upon 459 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: death toll for Leopold's regiam in the Congo, but the 460 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: likely numbers are between ten and thirteen million, possibly as 461 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: high as fifteen million people. And the Congo was definitely 462 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: the bloodiest of any of the colonies in Africa by 463 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: a substantial margin. But they all killed a lot of people, 464 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of them killed a lot of people 465 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: making rubber. And one of the things that was found 466 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: out after Leopold's death is that in the bloody French 467 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: and German colonies that were producing rubber, Leopold owned a 468 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: majority of several of the large rubber making corporates in 469 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: those colonies too, right, so he. 470 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: Was also the first like pan multinational. Right, the corporations 471 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: can be the conduits for the scumbags, because the corporations 472 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: are the scumbags, of course. But Jesus Christ, yeah, so 473 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 2: he's he's he's a real monster. The late king achieved 474 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: his ambition of disinheriting his daughters. He left them only 475 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: fifteen million francs, the exact amount he'd inherited from his father. 476 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 2: His entire fortune went to Baroness Devaughan, the prostitute Cortison 477 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: that he fell in love with and married. After his death, 478 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: she immediately married Durow, her pimp, and spent the rest 479 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: of her life living lavishly off the gold made by 480 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: the blood of Congle's labor, which she doesn't come out 481 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: as good as I don't know. 482 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: I kind of like that his inheritance got stolen by 483 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: a scheming prostitute and her pimp friend. Yeah, that's better than. 484 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: I guess if she had murdered him. 485 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: Her, if she'd strangled him with his own beard jabalize. 486 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, or poisoned. Maybe she did poison him. 487 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: Maybe she did poison him. I can't hope, so I 488 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: certainly don't know. 489 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 2: Oh what a grim ass tail uck. 490 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. His biography, the nineteen ten biography summed up Leopold's 491 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: life this way, Leopold the second New Belgium, New Europe 492 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: and new humanity. And like a strong man, he had 493 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: a deep contempt for everything and everybody. He loved his 494 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: country and his own interests. For all love is after 495 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: all selfish. Jesus, it's the Victorian age is a bleak 496 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: ass period. 497 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 2: It's also you know, speaking of although it's not exactly 498 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 2: the same players, but it's the same types of institutions, 499 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: every one of y'all who whenever this comes out, y'all 500 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: have just enjoyed the royal wedding. Yeah, that shit has 501 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 2: built off the back of shit, like exactly like this, 502 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: well less. 503 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: Artful than this a lot cool because this is if 504 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: you can like the it's it's up there with the 505 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: Holocaust in terms of like the greatest crimes in human history. 506 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: But as a scheme, his planned is it's like almost artwork. 507 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: It's like watching The Joker and the Good Krysnal and Batman. 508 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: Yeah pull it. 509 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: But also that one too, where you're like it has 510 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: similar moments of like, I feel like some of these 511 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: lives are just to do the lie. Yeah, there's not 512 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: even about achieving the aid even need to do that. 513 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a lot of like the fuck 514 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: you do that for? Well, it's crazy and so one 515 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: of the more I mean, there's so many fucked up 516 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: things about this. Yeah, I really recommend reading King Leopold's 517 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 2: Ghost by Adam Hoschild. It's a great book and it 518 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: really delves into the human misery caused by this regime. 519 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 2: But you know, you're talking ten to fifteen million people killed, 520 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: millions more left without hands, left maimed, starved like whose 521 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: villages were destroyed. The Congo today is still probably the 522 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: least stable state in Africa, or at least one of them. Yeah, 523 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: because all social order was destroyed. Yeah, swats the poppet 524 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 2: like that. It continues to this day. Leopold's profits, Yeah, 525 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: roughly a billion dollars in modern currency. That's bonkers, that's 526 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 2: I feel like, that's fucking nothing for what he did. 527 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 2: Oh in terms of right terms of yeah, not a. 528 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: Billion dollars in nineteen oh nine money, right, iland dollars 529 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: into day's money is what he got for killing ten 530 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: to fifteen million people and destroying Central Africa. 531 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: That's Jesus. Yeah, he's not even extracting enough wealth, Like 532 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: you could do that just by closing up bookshops. 533 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of that is because 534 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: he had to spend so much money on an army, 535 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: on policing, the same fighting it because there were a 536 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: bunch of rebellions, people who thought back. He had to 537 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: suppress those rebellions, and he had to pay all these 538 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: journalists and like, yeah. 539 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: There you go, fucking capitalists. And he'sn't even profitable. 540 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 3: To be the worst person in his although I. 541 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: Guess that was the second lesson that everyone turned is like, oh, 542 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: the real profit in pr and making people think they 543 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 2: want to do this. Now. 544 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question that occurred to 545 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: me when I finished researching this, and I wonder about this, 546 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: is Leopold a worse person than Hitler? Because I can't 547 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: not think about that line in The Big Lebowski where 548 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: what's his name Walter's like, say what you will about 549 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: national socialism. At least it's an ethos. Hitler committed crimes 550 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: on a similar, if not much greater scale if you 551 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: include all of the war dead, but he had like 552 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: an ideology behind it, as opposed to Leopold, who this 553 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: was never anything but money. There's no hatred, there was 554 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: no goal, there was no view of the world. It 555 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: was purely if I can make money, and killing these 556 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: people is the fastest way to get it. Yeah, I 557 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: don't care what happens to them because I want money. 558 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: And it was also separate. I mean, obviously, I guess 559 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 2: it's just different things. 560 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: They are very different things. Although you look at the Holocaust, 561 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: and this is something that's often glossed over when people 562 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: talk about the Holocaust is how much of it was 563 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: a money making endeavor from the German state because they 564 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: were literally mining people to death, but in terms of 565 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: like taking their hair, taking the gold fillings out of them, 566 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: taking their businesses beforehand, and taking their property. So I 567 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: mean you have with most of like and with really 568 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: with every great genocide, because like if you look at 569 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: the Rwandan genocide, there was a lot of financial motivation there, 570 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: people wanting each other's farms and what. 571 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to imagine like those are the things 572 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: that allow I mean, like all look but like all 573 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: conflict too. It's like like especially anything sectarian or religious, 574 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: like the Crusades. You know, you can make an economic 575 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: case for the Crusades or or colonialism or at large, 576 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: like all that is sort of possible. I think the 577 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: thing with Leopold's Evil is as as we've discussed already. 578 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: It's like, though not in the same degree, anyone listening 579 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: to this on a podcast thing and on a yeah 580 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: exactly is complicit in something along Leopold's vector, whereas it's 581 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: fewer of us listening to this podcast are complicit in 582 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: some type of thing that Hitler is involved in. So 583 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: I think it behooves us to say Hitler is more 584 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: evil because we don't want to be part you know, like, yeah, 585 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: the banality, I mean, look, not banality, but the you know, 586 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: the it's in the direction of banality. 587 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: Well, I think you're onto something that's great there. And 588 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: I think that's why the idea of the banality of 589 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: evil is so important is because Hitler is it's so 590 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: easy to see the evil and Hitler because he was 591 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: he was showy with like he's the most showy villain 592 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: in all of history. Leopold was a weird old man 593 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: who had a stupid beard and sat in his office 594 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: and never shot anybody, and wrote a tricycle to his 595 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: mistress and was just this weird old dude who was 596 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: happy to orchestrate one of like the great crimes in 597 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: human history just for some cashness pocket And that's scarier. 598 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you imagine, like he doesn't come up with 599 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 2: the hands for bullets scheme. No, he's just does they 600 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: need to We can't let them have bullets. We have 601 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: to make sure that like we're accounting for all the bullets, 602 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: that they're not saving them up for a rebellion. 603 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: What can we do? Oh, well, we just make sure 604 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: they prove to us they're using the bullets for a 605 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: good reason when they fire them. How about we have 606 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: them bringing a hand. Great, and that's probably the end 607 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: of the country proof. 608 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: And then the first person bring a million. 609 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: People lose hands. Yeah, Like, then a crime on an 610 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: unspeakable scale happens. And he's just like sitting at home 611 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: being like, boy, I wonder why productions down this week. 612 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,239 Speaker 2: But he can also be like, I'm not the one 613 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: that came up with the hands thing. Oh, it's a shame. 614 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: He can even be like, all the hand things are 615 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: real shame. 616 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real shame. One of my new guys, 617 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: you know these you know the walloons. Yeah, you put 618 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: him in charge of something and they mess it up. 619 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: I hate that we have to do this, but of 620 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: course we do need that rubber. Yeah, that's that's the 621 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: thing that you know. And look, that's a version of 622 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: every one of us tells ourselves every fucking day. Yeah. 623 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: So that's why I think most people would say Hitler 624 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: is a worse, more evil, because we don't want to 625 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: be complicit in our own evil. 626 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, this is Robert Evans from the future. I 627 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: realized that this podcast was a teeny bit incomplete. There 628 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: was some more information I wanted to give out, so 629 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: I gained access to a time machine and went back 630 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: in time to record it. It was either fixed the 631 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: podcast or stopped nine to eleven. Hopefully I made the 632 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: right decision. But I wanted to say a little bit 633 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: more about the Chacota, which we talked about a little 634 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: bit in this podcast. That's the hippo hyde whip that 635 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: was the primary disciplinary tool in the Congo Free State. 636 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: The book King Leopold's Ghost makes a big deal out 637 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: of the Chacota, and it's probably true that the Belgians 638 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: under Leopold whipped more people to death than any other 639 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: regime in history, but that book also points out that 640 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: whipping people to death or nearly to death was basically 641 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: the bedrock that colonialism was founded upon. It relates the 642 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: story of a guy named Roger Casement, who we didn't 643 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: get to talk to you in this podcast. He's a 644 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: very interesting dude. He's one of the men who investigated 645 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: atrocities in the Congo. He also wound up investigating of 646 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: atrocities in the Amazon at a place called Putumayo, where 647 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the Peruvian Amazon rubber company had been caught basically enslaving 648 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: and murdering people to produce even more rubber, and this 649 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: was for I think the British. It was mostly a 650 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: British owned company, although it was like a corporation with 651 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: a lot of different sort of stockholders behind it. And 652 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: the Peruvian Amazon Rubber Company dealt out punishments with a 653 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: whip of their own that was actually a tapeer hide whip, 654 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: but it was similar to the Jacota in its effect. 655 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: Roughly thirty thousand indigenous people in the Amazon died mining 656 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: rubber for that company. Whips, it turns out, were basically 657 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: the glue that made colonialism possible. I found one book 658 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: on slavery in the British West Indies published in eighteen 659 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: twenty four, that admits that whips were quote the main 660 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: spring of the agricultural system in that region of the Empire. 661 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: Whips were also critical to the French colonies as far 662 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: back as the seventeen hundreds, when a visitor to the 663 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: French Antilles noticed that the use of whips was quote 664 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: always excessive and barbarous, with the potential of maiming the 665 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: victim by assaulting his private parts or even killing him, 666 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: if not instantly as has already been the case, in 667 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: due course, as is often the case. So whipping and 668 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: slavery go hand in hand. Obviously, I don't think most 669 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: people are surprised by that, but I think a lot 670 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: of people would be surprised to know that Europeans didn't 671 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: stop whipping subject people once slavery was over. The Congo 672 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: and the Amazon are proof of that, but the atomic 673 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: bomb is actually even more proof. After Leopold died, the 674 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: Belgians continued to control the Congo region and they moved 675 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: on from rubber farming to mining. In the first six 676 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: months of nineteen twenty, a single gold mine is recorded 677 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: as issuing over twenty six thousand lashes to his workers, 678 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: more than eight lashes for every single African quote employed there. 679 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: I say, you know, employed in quotation marks because the 680 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Belgians kept right on using forced labor, as did the 681 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: British in Kenya up and into the modern era. By 682 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: World War II, Belgium required one hundred and twenty days 683 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: per year of labor for each adult male inhabitant of 684 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: the Congo region, and it turns out that eighty percent 685 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: of the uranium mine to make the bombs dropped on 686 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: Hiroshima and Nagasaki came from Congolese mines that used force labor, 687 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: which means we can thank the Chacote for the first 688 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: atom bombs. The British are also famous for flogging their 689 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: colonial subjects well into the middle of the twentieth century. 690 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: By the nineteen twenties, Kenya was the colony where the 691 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: British used the most corporal punishment, or as they called it, 692 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: rough justice. Flogging was seen to be necessary in order 693 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: to deal with the quote raw native Africans, who were 694 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: perhaps so raw because the British regularly whipped them bloody. 695 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: There were attempts in the nineteen thirties to alter British 696 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: penal laws in the colony to be less brutal, but 697 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: they didn't exactly stop the problem of white colonists treating 698 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: black natives like shit. Brutality in the Kenyan colony eventually 699 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: led to the Mau Mau Uprising, which started in nineteen 700 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: fifty two when a bunch of rebels calling themselves the 701 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: Malmou killed thirty two white people. This made England go 702 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: bat shit crazy. The English forces rounded up one hundred 703 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand Kenyans and threw them into concentration camps, 704 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: where they were starved and beaten regularly. One survivor recalled, 705 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: we were forced to do work, carrying bricks to build 706 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: a school. We were beaten if we moved too slowly. 707 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: It was very hard work. They would just flog everyone. 708 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: At times four or five guards with whips would come 709 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: into the cell. So at least twelve thousand people were 710 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: killed during the Mammou uprising. Although it's hard to say 711 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: how many of them died from being whipped, the brutalizing 712 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: effect of whipping people certainly had an impact on the 713 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: British men who did it. A Kenyan judge who investigated whipping, 714 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: torture and murder at one British interrogation center compared it 715 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: to a Nazi labor camp and said, quote from the 716 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: brutalizing of flogging, it is only a step to taking 717 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: a life without qualm. So I just thought this is 718 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: a good information to know. People talk about colonialism a lot, 719 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: and it gets, you know, a lot of well deserved 720 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: harsh criticism these days. But I think that the people 721 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: who rightly view it as a horrible historical crime also 722 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: tend to kind of push it further back in history 723 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: and sort of assume that most of the worst stuff 724 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: was done and you know, the seventeen and eighteen hundreds. 725 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: The reality is that colonialism was still exporting wealth from 726 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: African nations, you know, into Europe well into the twentieth century, 727 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: and that the European nations were using brutal and in 728 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: a lot of ways midia evil justice measures in order 729 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: to keep the colonies compliant. So, uh, there's your happy 730 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: little reminder that not only was colonialism and nightmare, but 731 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: it is a nightmare that happened recently enough that a 732 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: lot of people are still alive to remember it today. 733 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: Uh So just keep that in mind, I guess. And 734 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: now I'm going to use my magical time powers to 735 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: go back to you know, when Andrew and I were 736 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: sitting in the room. Yeah, and we don't want to 737 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: We also don't want to acknowledge like when you go 738 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: to Belgium, which I love Belgium. Yeah, and there a 739 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: couple of times, beautiful country, best beer I've ever had 740 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: in the world, gorgeous giant buildings. Yeah, many in like 741 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: the cities and stuff like ain't really old, beautiful museums 742 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: and stuff, many of which are built on Congo money. Yeah, 743 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: and so you don't and and like you we're shitting 744 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: on Belgium here. Yeah, but that's like all of Europe 745 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,399 Speaker 1: you go to, you go to uh. 746 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the American North yeah yeah, like that's everything 747 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 2: was built on the backs of that shit. Yeah. So 748 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 2: and you know there's there were good people at all 749 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 2: times being like. 750 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: Ah it sucks, this is really messed up. 751 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: But yeah, but that's the same ever you pick up 752 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 2: an iPhone and you're like, oh, it sucks that someone 753 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: had for this. 754 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: I do need it though, well, and there are and 755 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: this is again the thing that Leopold's ghost is a 756 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: good job of going into. There are the heroes in 757 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: this story. There's the guy like Colonel Washington who goes 758 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: there and right, there's guys like Morel who are who 759 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: like who don't even see it firsthand, but put it together. Yeah, 760 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: like this can't stand. I have to do something and 761 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: I hope that like, like that's the we got to 762 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: focus on Leopold in this both because his story is 763 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: the blueprint of every terrible person who came after him. 764 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,839 Speaker 1: He really is the first modern monster world like head 765 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: of State, the first one to use pr in a 766 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: really modern way, right, But it's important. It's just as 767 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: important to think about the guys like Morell, who are 768 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: probably more relevant to our own lives because they point 769 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: out like, well, you can do something. 770 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't have to just say it's a shame. 771 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, and it might take fifteen years. Yeah you can, 772 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: it's right. 773 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, these guys will still win to some extent, 774 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: but you can lowerre the margins. 775 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 3: By which they win. 776 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 2: You can cut into their profits. Well, right, it's just 777 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 2: a battle. All you can do is make it less profitable. 778 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 3: Yep. 779 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 2: Wow, well the Capitalist Revolution. 780 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: Great, that is our podcast. 781 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 3: For the week. 782 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: Andrew, you want to plug your pluggables? 783 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well just please listen to you. Is this racist? 784 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 2: I used to think it was the most depressing podcast 785 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 2: on the internet, but not anymore. 786 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: And I'm Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter 787 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: at at I Write Okay. You can find this podcast 788 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: on the internet at behind the Bastards dot com. You 789 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: can find us on social media at at Bastards Pod. 790 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: I've got a book you can find on Amazon, a 791 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: Brief History of Vice. So yeah, check my stuff out, 792 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: check us out. We will be back every single Tuesday 793 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe with 794 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: a new bastard. So check out as next to you 795 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: though right, yes, can't wait yep okay. 796 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 797 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 3: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia 798 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 3: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 799 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.