WEBVTT - Bad Habits are Solvable 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.396 Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. Habits are only 0:00:25.476 --> 0:00:29.316 good or bad in relation to your goals. Every year, 0:00:29.716 --> 0:00:33.316 the New Year approaches all across America, millions of us 0:00:33.356 --> 0:00:36.356 take a look at our lives and think about making changes, 0:00:36.956 --> 0:00:39.876 changes in how we exercise, the money we say, the 0:00:39.916 --> 0:00:42.956 hours we spend on the internet. We always think of 0:00:43.596 --> 0:00:48.516 discipline a sort of self denial. It's the kind of 0:00:48.556 --> 0:00:52.756 white knuckling it through. We're going to make ourselves do it. 0:00:53.156 --> 0:00:57.316 So that's a high effort sort of a process. For 0:00:57.396 --> 0:01:00.676 those of us who actually make fresh goals, fewer than 0:01:00.756 --> 0:01:03.396 half of us will stick with them. Many of us 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:07.756 won't even get through January. But research psychologists Wendy Wood 0:01:08.196 --> 0:01:11.316 thinks that's because we're thinking about our goals upside down. 0:01:11.996 --> 0:01:15.436 A lot of goals aren't about making fresh habits. So 0:01:15.476 --> 0:01:19.076 we really are trying to change a habit that we've 0:01:19.196 --> 0:01:26.356 already formed, and that requires different strategies than willpower and motivation. 0:01:27.436 --> 0:01:30.876 Doctor Wendy Wood is Provost Professor of psychology and Business 0:01:31.156 --> 0:01:35.556 at the University of Southern California, and she thinks persistent 0:01:35.796 --> 0:01:42.356 behavior change is solvable. Just to start out, Wendy to 0:01:42.436 --> 0:01:46.356 ask for perhaps obvious question, what is a habit? A 0:01:46.476 --> 0:01:51.476 habit is Actually it's an answer, it's a solution. It's 0:01:51.476 --> 0:01:55.596 a way that people stick with behavior. It's a way 0:01:55.596 --> 0:01:59.236 they persist. Habits. You can think of as a sort 0:01:59.276 --> 0:02:04.596 of learning mechanism. Something good happens, some good outcome happens. 0:02:05.156 --> 0:02:08.356 You form habit memories that allow you to repeat it 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:13.036 again in the nature. So when we talk about bad habits, 0:02:13.196 --> 0:02:16.156 and just about everybody I know I think would say 0:02:16.196 --> 0:02:19.316 they have some bad habits, however hard they're trying or 0:02:19.396 --> 0:02:22.516 not trying to change them. Is it that you're somehow 0:02:22.596 --> 0:02:26.276 getting rewarded or you've gotten into a pattern of being 0:02:26.316 --> 0:02:30.996 rewarded for that bad habit. Bad habits are habits that 0:02:31.036 --> 0:02:35.796 are inconsistent with our goals. They conflict with our goals. 0:02:36.356 --> 0:02:38.676 So there are things that we don't want to do 0:02:39.276 --> 0:02:43.196 and they got rewarded in the past. Rewards are really 0:02:43.236 --> 0:02:47.836 important for forming a habit. They're not quite so important 0:02:47.916 --> 0:02:51.836 once you've formed one. And that's the real challenge. We 0:02:51.916 --> 0:02:56.236 keep doing what we did in the past that was rewarding, 0:02:57.756 --> 0:03:01.396 but right now we've changed our mind and we want 0:03:01.396 --> 0:03:04.676 to be doing something else. But the habit memory sticks, 0:03:05.076 --> 0:03:08.676 and so it keeps us doing that thing. You know, 0:03:08.716 --> 0:03:11.636 you've reminded me. I grew up in Chicago and went 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:14.556 to a school that was across the street from a zoo, 0:03:15.036 --> 0:03:17.476 and as a result, we had a course that I 0:03:17.516 --> 0:03:21.316 took which was called Patterns in Animal Behavior. And what 0:03:21.356 --> 0:03:23.756 we did was we went over to the zoo and 0:03:23.876 --> 0:03:27.196 watched animals for a long time, like an hour or two. 0:03:27.436 --> 0:03:31.356 And what you saw was repetitive habits. I don't know 0:03:31.356 --> 0:03:33.676 if you call them habits when they're animals and not humans, 0:03:33.716 --> 0:03:37.916 but these animals just did the same thing again and again. 0:03:37.956 --> 0:03:40.636 And it might have been a complicated routine, but over 0:03:40.676 --> 0:03:45.236 tom you would see the repetitive behavior. And it's always 0:03:45.276 --> 0:03:47.956 made me think that, well, humans are animals and we 0:03:48.076 --> 0:03:51.396 do the same thing. We just have these repetitive grooves 0:03:51.436 --> 0:03:54.956 that we get into exactly what a great class. You're 0:03:54.996 --> 0:03:58.596 absolutely right. Habits are a form of learning that we 0:03:58.636 --> 0:04:02.236 share with all mammals. I mean, because it's how your 0:04:02.276 --> 0:04:05.756 dog learns, right, It's how you train your dog, giving 0:04:05.756 --> 0:04:08.436 them rewards for doing the same thing over and over. 0:04:09.236 --> 0:04:12.556 The challenge for humans, though, is that we have this 0:04:13.316 --> 0:04:18.196 very elaborate, more thoughtful decision making parts of our brain 0:04:18.676 --> 0:04:21.716 as well as the habit systems that we share with 0:04:21.756 --> 0:04:27.076 all mammals, and those sort of more elaborate, thoughtful areas 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:31.196 are what makes us decide geez, I wish I didn't 0:04:31.236 --> 0:04:35.356 do this, and that's where we get into conflict with 0:04:35.676 --> 0:04:39.036 the habits system. So it's that time of year when 0:04:39.356 --> 0:04:42.796 lots of people make New Year's resolutions, and I think 0:04:42.796 --> 0:04:46.596 the evidence suggests that most people won't keep most of 0:04:46.596 --> 0:04:53.276 those resolutions. So what's your advice for changing habits that 0:04:53.316 --> 0:04:55.956 we want to change and having the change stick. Yeah, 0:04:56.716 --> 0:05:00.476 you're absolutely right that most people don't stick with them. 0:05:00.916 --> 0:05:05.196 At best, about half of us will be successful at 0:05:05.316 --> 0:05:10.156 keeping our New Year's resolutions. Most people say if I fail, 0:05:10.956 --> 0:05:15.316 I didn't have enough willpower. We tend to ascribe it 0:05:15.396 --> 0:05:19.116 to ourselves and our own limitations. But keep in mind 0:05:19.316 --> 0:05:25.636 that most of the resolutions we make are changing and 0:05:25.796 --> 0:05:30.116 existing behavior. So we really are trying to change a 0:05:30.276 --> 0:05:37.116 habit that we've already formed, and that requires different strategies 0:05:37.316 --> 0:05:41.676 than willpower and motivation, because you're not going to stay 0:05:41.716 --> 0:05:45.516 motivated as long as your habit memory is going to persist. 0:05:46.076 --> 0:05:51.356 The best way to change a habit is to alter 0:05:51.516 --> 0:05:56.876 the cues in the environment what is activating that response. 0:05:58.116 --> 0:06:01.756 And let me give you an example. So I get 0:06:01.836 --> 0:06:04.956 up in the morning and I walk into my kitchen 0:06:04.996 --> 0:06:08.276 and I make coffee and I do so I don't 0:06:08.316 --> 0:06:11.436 ask myself do I want coffee this morning? Am I 0:06:11.556 --> 0:06:17.276 tired enough? I just make it automatically without thinking about 0:06:17.316 --> 0:06:20.516 what I'm doing. You might have had this experience when 0:06:20.516 --> 0:06:23.316 you get in your car, right you just automatically put 0:06:23.356 --> 0:06:26.876 your seatbelt on. You don't think about all of the 0:06:26.916 --> 0:06:30.796 reasons why you should or shouldn't. It's something that's automatic. 0:06:31.556 --> 0:06:35.316 So that's what keeps us repeating behavior, and we want 0:06:35.316 --> 0:06:39.156 to change up those cues so that the old pattern 0:06:39.396 --> 0:06:44.356 isn't activated. Well, that's an interesting example about seatbelts because 0:06:44.836 --> 0:06:47.876 there were a lot of people who didn't use seatbelts 0:06:47.916 --> 0:06:50.916 when it was purely a matter of choice. But we've 0:06:50.916 --> 0:06:54.396 actually taken that discretion away from people, at least for 0:06:54.516 --> 0:06:57.516 cars made and I don't know the last however many years, 0:06:57.916 --> 0:07:01.956 because legislation requires that there's that annoying beeping noise if 0:07:01.956 --> 0:07:04.196 you don't have your seatbelt on, and so you no 0:07:04.236 --> 0:07:07.116 longer have the option of having a bad habit. Does 0:07:07.196 --> 0:07:12.716 that point the way to creating systems that take our choice, 0:07:12.836 --> 0:07:16.276 the element of will or willpower away from us when 0:07:16.276 --> 0:07:18.676 it comes to habits that we should want to change 0:07:18.756 --> 0:07:22.076 or break. Well, I wouldn't say so much. It takes 0:07:22.116 --> 0:07:26.596 our willpower away from us as encourages us to do 0:07:26.636 --> 0:07:31.036 the right thing. And we've done this already in public 0:07:31.076 --> 0:07:37.836 health campaigns with anti smoking. Right, we have changed the environment, 0:07:37.996 --> 0:07:42.196 the smoking environment, to actually make it more difficult to smoke, 0:07:42.996 --> 0:07:47.196 and that's involved removing cues. So there are no longer 0:07:47.236 --> 0:07:52.276 cigarettes on shelves and stores, we don't get advertising for cigarettes, 0:07:53.236 --> 0:07:57.836 there aren't cigarette vending machines anymore. So they've taken away 0:07:57.836 --> 0:08:00.916 a lot of the queues to purchasing. But they've also 0:08:00.996 --> 0:08:06.196 made it more difficult to smoke, smoking bands and public places, 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:09.956 taxes on cigarettes make it harder to buy them. So 0:08:10.236 --> 0:08:14.236 that's sort of a two pronged approach here. One is 0:08:14.396 --> 0:08:19.476 changing the cues that kept people smoking, and the second 0:08:19.756 --> 0:08:25.716 is making it more difficult to smoke, adding friction on 0:08:25.876 --> 0:08:29.156 the behavior so it's more difficult, and our habits are 0:08:29.276 --> 0:08:31.716 very responsive to that. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to 0:08:31.796 --> 0:08:36.196 talk about smoking because obviously that's a behavior that involves 0:08:36.316 --> 0:08:43.156 an element of addiction. Nicotine's an addictive chemical. And it's interesting, 0:08:43.236 --> 0:08:47.036 first of all, that changing the scenarios and the way 0:08:47.076 --> 0:08:49.876 you talk about still has an effect even though it's addictive. 0:08:50.356 --> 0:08:54.356 But for some people it doesn't because they're addicted to 0:08:55.036 --> 0:08:58.156 the chemical of nicotine and change Trying to do all 0:08:58.196 --> 0:08:59.996 the things you're talking about isn't going to get you 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:02.836 across the line of quitting. Well, let me point out 0:09:03.036 --> 0:09:07.116 that in the middle of the last century, fifty percent 0:09:07.316 --> 0:09:13.276 of Americans smoked, and now only fifteen percent do so. Yes, 0:09:13.516 --> 0:09:16.636 I'm not denying the effects of nicotine, but I'm saying 0:09:16.636 --> 0:09:22.116 that these forces on our behavior are very powerful, maybe 0:09:22.236 --> 0:09:27.036 more so than many of us want to admit. I mean, 0:09:27.076 --> 0:09:28.676 if I could be the guinea pig here for a minute, 0:09:28.716 --> 0:09:31.516 let me tell you about a habit, a bad habit 0:09:31.556 --> 0:09:33.116 I would like to break that I've had a really 0:09:33.116 --> 0:09:38.876 hard time breaking, which is having my phone in bed. 0:09:40.156 --> 0:09:42.756 I definitely as a result of having the phone. I 0:09:42.796 --> 0:09:44.636 don't do have it there every night, but when I do, 0:09:44.996 --> 0:09:46.556 I don't sleep as well. If I wake up in 0:09:46.556 --> 0:09:48.516 the middle of the night, I'm inclined to reach for 0:09:48.556 --> 0:09:50.196 the phone, and then I'm less likely to go back 0:09:50.236 --> 0:09:52.796 to sleep, And just in general, when I don't have 0:09:52.796 --> 0:09:58.116 the phone there, I feel better about things. But I 0:09:58.236 --> 0:10:01.476 keep having my phone in bed for you know, I 0:10:01.516 --> 0:10:04.796 have various reasons and excuses, but honestly, I think the 0:10:04.836 --> 0:10:07.276 bottom line is I want to check my phone like 0:10:07.396 --> 0:10:11.476 it's something. You know, it's pleasurable or important or whatever 0:10:11.556 --> 0:10:14.876 it is. But even if I get in the groove 0:10:14.956 --> 0:10:17.716 of putting it in another room for a while, I 0:10:17.876 --> 0:10:20.276 somehow break the good habit and go back to the 0:10:20.316 --> 0:10:24.596 bad one. Can you help me, Well, you're responding to rewards. 0:10:24.676 --> 0:10:30.036 The phone is designed to keep you using it in 0:10:30.076 --> 0:10:33.636 a very habitual way if you use much social media. 0:10:33.876 --> 0:10:37.196 Social media comes in a big scroll, and every once 0:10:37.236 --> 0:10:41.476 in a while you get this wonderfully interesting tidbit from 0:10:41.596 --> 0:10:46.916 a friend or something else that just keeps you scrolling. 0:10:47.196 --> 0:10:49.276 So what you have to do is you have to 0:10:49.276 --> 0:10:54.556 figure out how to reverse engineer those cues. You need 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:58.676 to figure out how to change them or to put 0:10:58.716 --> 0:11:02.916 friction on them. Maybe you just need a little bit 0:11:02.956 --> 0:11:08.476 more practice repetition in leaving the phone in a specific 0:11:08.636 --> 0:11:12.876 place before you go to bed, so that it starts 0:11:12.916 --> 0:11:17.756 to become automatic. I would say, probably just haven't practiced 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:22.036 it enough. Well, that term friction you talked about is 0:11:22.076 --> 0:11:25.996 really interesting. You know, our company makes a podcast with 0:11:26.356 --> 0:11:29.716 doctor Lory Santos at Yale called The Happiness Lab, and 0:11:29.996 --> 0:11:32.876 she's done a number of episodes that have touched on 0:11:32.956 --> 0:11:36.996 this question of, you know, how you can create friction 0:11:37.076 --> 0:11:39.196 around the things you don't want to do. But then 0:11:39.276 --> 0:11:41.996 I guess a kind of you know less friction or 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:44.676 a system of rewards around the things you do want 0:11:44.716 --> 0:11:48.116 to do. And the thing about friction is we don't 0:11:48.596 --> 0:11:53.356 give it a whole lot of credibility simply because most 0:11:53.396 --> 0:11:57.036 of us think we're in charge right as you said earlier, 0:11:57.116 --> 0:11:59.876 We think we have free will. We think we are 0:12:00.156 --> 0:12:03.596 making decisions and doing things all the time. We're not 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:07.116 aware of how much of the time we're simply responding 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:11.596 to the environment around. My favorite study right now on 0:12:11.756 --> 0:12:15.596 friction is one that was done in an office building 0:12:15.836 --> 0:12:19.676 as a four story office building, and it was done 0:12:19.676 --> 0:12:24.196 with researchers who wanted people to take the stairs and 0:12:24.316 --> 0:12:29.196 stop using the elevator. And it's a four story building, 0:12:29.236 --> 0:12:33.476 so that's possible. So what they started with is sort 0:12:33.476 --> 0:12:36.516 of how we start with our New Year's resolutions. They 0:12:36.516 --> 0:12:40.356 started off trying to convince people right, motivate them, get 0:12:40.356 --> 0:12:44.276 them to do the right thing. So they put up signs, first, 0:12:44.876 --> 0:12:50.476 take the stairs, it uses many more calories than the elevator, 0:12:51.356 --> 0:12:55.476 good for your health. That had no effect. So they 0:12:55.476 --> 0:13:00.116 tried a different approach. They tried take the stairs, saves energy, 0:13:00.276 --> 0:13:05.836 good for the environment, save our planet. No effect. So 0:13:05.876 --> 0:13:09.876 what they did is they slowed the clothes closing of 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:15.276 the elevator door by sixteen seconds, and that was enough 0:13:15.316 --> 0:13:20.796 to reduce elevator trips by a third. So just the 0:13:20.996 --> 0:13:27.076 simple friction of having a slow door closing stopped people 0:13:27.156 --> 0:13:30.116 from taking the elevator. And the cool thing about the 0:13:30.156 --> 0:13:35.116 study is that four weeks later, when the researchers set 0:13:35.156 --> 0:13:39.476 the elevator door back to its normal speed, people kept 0:13:39.516 --> 0:13:44.356 taking the stairs. They still avoided the elevator because they 0:13:44.356 --> 0:13:47.596 had formed habits to take the stairs. See, and that's 0:13:47.636 --> 0:13:50.956 maybe four weeks every day it would be enough practice 0:13:51.036 --> 0:13:54.836 for you, Jacob in keeping your cell phone out of 0:13:54.836 --> 0:13:57.556 the bedroom. Yeah, well, well that's a good example of 0:13:57.596 --> 0:14:00.436 adding how adding a tiny bit of invisible amount of 0:14:00.516 --> 0:14:05.836 friction health. So we'll give me some friction examples around exercise. 0:14:05.876 --> 0:14:08.836 For example, I have pretty good habits around exercise. I've 0:14:08.836 --> 0:14:11.676 aloys been a runner, and I get pleasure from doing it, 0:14:11.836 --> 0:14:13.396 so you know, but I know a lot of people, 0:14:13.716 --> 0:14:16.316 just especially this time of year when it's cold and 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:19.916 most of the country, it's just really hard to get motivated. 0:14:19.956 --> 0:14:23.236 How can you remove friction that will make it easier 0:14:23.236 --> 0:14:26.876 to get out and exercise. Well, I think that the 0:14:27.036 --> 0:14:31.556 motivation would come from finding ways to make it reboarding. 0:14:32.796 --> 0:14:35.516 I used to be a runner too. It's not easy 0:14:35.596 --> 0:14:38.556 for me to do. So I started using an elliptical 0:14:39.556 --> 0:14:43.156 and if you've ever used an elliptical machine, it is 0:14:43.196 --> 0:14:47.476 the most boring thing in the world. So hated it 0:14:47.556 --> 0:14:51.996 for a while until I figured out I can watch 0:14:52.156 --> 0:14:55.476 really stupid TV shows that I would never normally watch, 0:14:55.916 --> 0:14:59.516 read trashy novels that I would never normally spend the 0:14:59.556 --> 0:15:03.636 time reading, just when I use the elliptical. And since 0:15:03.676 --> 0:15:06.956 I started doing that, which is about four years ago, 0:15:07.076 --> 0:15:10.436 five years ago, now I of it. I look forward 0:15:10.516 --> 0:15:14.116 to it, and I look forward to it because it's 0:15:14.196 --> 0:15:17.396 that combined experience. I've been able to figure out how 0:15:17.436 --> 0:15:21.236 to add a reward to it that makes it rewarding. 0:15:21.636 --> 0:15:24.236 I mean that reward in another context might be a 0:15:24.276 --> 0:15:27.916 bad habit. Right, Watching trashy TV might be a habit 0:15:27.956 --> 0:15:30.516 you would want to break or change is part of 0:15:30.516 --> 0:15:33.596 your UNI Year's resolution. But why is it it's okay 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:36.836 in the context of using it to create a good habit, 0:15:36.996 --> 0:15:39.436 or because it's limited by the good habit of What's 0:15:39.476 --> 0:15:42.076 how do you think about that? Habits are only good 0:15:42.156 --> 0:15:46.196 or bad in relation to your goals. So my goal 0:15:46.316 --> 0:15:50.036 is to get myself exercising, and I'm going to spend 0:15:50.036 --> 0:15:55.556 the time exercising anyway, So what does it matter what 0:15:55.636 --> 0:16:00.236 I'm thinking about when I exercise? That's how I think 0:16:00.276 --> 0:16:03.356 of it. My priority is exercise how to get myself 0:16:03.356 --> 0:16:06.276 to do it. It's interesting what we think of as 0:16:06.636 --> 0:16:09.316 discipline versus a habit. I mean, I have in a 0:16:09.356 --> 0:16:11.236 few books, and I always just thought of it as 0:16:11.276 --> 0:16:14.316 a button chair problem. You know, if I was in 0:16:14.796 --> 0:16:16.796 if I had my button the chair from nine to 0:16:16.836 --> 0:16:19.716 one every day, the book got written, and if I didn't, 0:16:19.716 --> 0:16:23.676 it didn't. So I guess I built the habit. But 0:16:23.956 --> 0:16:27.036 I would say, you know, I disciplined myself to sit 0:16:27.076 --> 0:16:29.876 there six days a week from nine to one, and 0:16:29.916 --> 0:16:31.556 when you thought about it. You know, nine to one, 0:16:31.556 --> 0:16:34.076 it's only four hours a day, So it wasn't you know, 0:16:34.116 --> 0:16:36.956 it wasn't like you could have a life outside of 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:38.796 doing that. The problem was if you didn't have the 0:16:38.836 --> 0:16:41.956 discipline of doing that, you'd have to be kind of 0:16:41.996 --> 0:16:46.916 doing it all the time exactly. But you know, you've 0:16:47.036 --> 0:16:51.556 touched on an interesting point I think, which is, so, 0:16:51.836 --> 0:16:56.476 what's the difference between a habit and discipline or willpower? 0:16:57.156 --> 0:17:02.076 How can we understand that? We always think of discipline 0:17:02.116 --> 0:17:06.316 a sort of self denial. It's the kind of white 0:17:06.356 --> 0:17:10.236 knuckling it through. We're going to make ourselves do it. 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:16.316 So that's a high effort process. And up until very recently, 0:17:16.916 --> 0:17:21.956 psychologists thought some people have high self control, like that 0:17:22.156 --> 0:17:26.316 they're just able to do that better than others. And 0:17:26.436 --> 0:17:32.516 what we've learned instead from observing people is people who 0:17:33.516 --> 0:17:38.996 self report who say they have high self control, they 0:17:39.116 --> 0:17:44.636 actually know how to form habits. So they start as 0:17:44.676 --> 0:17:48.076 you did. If they want to write a book, they 0:17:48.116 --> 0:17:51.916 figure out what time of day they're best at writing, 0:17:52.996 --> 0:17:57.276 or how many pages. Some people who are prolific writers 0:17:57.276 --> 0:18:00.196 write a certain number of pages every day. Some people 0:18:00.236 --> 0:18:03.116 write for a certain number of hours every day. I 0:18:03.156 --> 0:18:07.916 mean the habit itself that they're forming has to do 0:18:08.116 --> 0:18:14.476 with those markers. Of course, writing itself isn't a habit. 0:18:14.796 --> 0:18:21.836 The habit is getting there and making yourself do it effortlessly, 0:18:22.596 --> 0:18:25.956 and that is the automaticity of habit. Of course, then 0:18:25.996 --> 0:18:28.676 you have to do the cognitive work of writing on 0:18:28.796 --> 0:18:32.156 top of that, but that's a whole different thing. Yeah, 0:18:32.276 --> 0:18:35.036 does it change with age? I mean, given that this 0:18:35.156 --> 0:18:38.596 is this is you're looking at what's happening inside our brains, 0:18:38.596 --> 0:18:41.316 and our brains change as we get older. You know, 0:18:41.316 --> 0:18:44.756 does it get easier or harder to change your habits 0:18:44.756 --> 0:18:49.756 as you get older? Everything gets harder as you get older. 0:18:49.876 --> 0:18:52.356 Taker that was sort of an obvious question, wasn't it. 0:18:52.356 --> 0:18:56.876 But I did. But but on the other hand, there 0:18:56.956 --> 0:18:59.316 is sort of the habit of having habits, and you know, 0:18:59.396 --> 0:19:02.116 the confidence that if you've changed habits in the past, 0:19:02.516 --> 0:19:04.556 you know you can do it. And I often do 0:19:04.676 --> 0:19:08.476 observe that it may be more settled when you're older, 0:19:08.516 --> 0:19:12.396 but it may be more settled in a positive direction. Well, 0:19:12.436 --> 0:19:17.836 I think there's pretty good data that all of our brains, 0:19:18.276 --> 0:19:20.796 all parts of our brains, all parts of our neural 0:19:20.876 --> 0:19:26.356 systems do age, and they get a little less efficient, 0:19:26.636 --> 0:19:31.476 a little less effective as we get older. Research shows 0:19:31.476 --> 0:19:36.396 that older people have a harder time of forming new habits. 0:19:38.076 --> 0:19:43.996 That might seem like it is inconsistent with our observations 0:19:44.036 --> 0:19:47.356 of a lot of older people who seem to do 0:19:47.516 --> 0:19:51.276 things out of habit a lot. And the thing is 0:19:51.276 --> 0:19:53.756 is that as you get older, you have a harder 0:19:53.796 --> 0:19:58.876 time learning new habits, but you're still relying on all 0:19:58.916 --> 0:20:02.236 of the old ones that you learned earlier in life. 0:20:02.476 --> 0:20:05.676 And that may be where your sense of older people 0:20:05.716 --> 0:20:10.276 are more stable, more sort of routine in their behavior. 0:20:10.756 --> 0:20:15.316 They may be relying more on older habits and they 0:20:15.396 --> 0:20:19.636 just had less variability in their behavior in general. So 0:20:19.756 --> 0:20:23.356 let's wrap up with some advice for listeners who presumably 0:20:23.596 --> 0:20:25.876 do have some habits they want to change. And it's 0:20:25.876 --> 0:20:27.756 a little after New Year's now, so we don't have 0:20:27.836 --> 0:20:31.516 to worry about the deadline. But what are three things 0:20:31.556 --> 0:20:34.356 to think about just to get started. Is one of 0:20:34.396 --> 0:20:38.796 them applying or removing friction? Yes, one of them is 0:20:39.196 --> 0:20:42.396 identifying the behaviors. First, you have to know what behaviors 0:20:42.436 --> 0:20:46.716 are giving your problems and have a very clear sense 0:20:46.756 --> 0:20:50.276 of what new behaviors you want to become part of 0:20:50.396 --> 0:20:54.516 your habits, and then figuring out how to repeat those 0:20:54.716 --> 0:20:59.996 on a regular basis those new behaviors, understanding the cues 0:20:59.996 --> 0:21:05.596 that drive behavior, and understanding how to make the behaviors 0:21:05.636 --> 0:21:11.116 you want easier. So we talked about friction getting in 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:15.836 the way of behaviors you don't want, but the friction 0:21:16.156 --> 0:21:19.916 in your life can also help you repeat behaviors that 0:21:20.036 --> 0:21:24.596 you do want. So, for example, there was a study 0:21:25.036 --> 0:21:29.796 done with cell phones, tracking cell phones how far they 0:21:29.836 --> 0:21:33.996 traveled to a paid fitness center. What they found is 0:21:34.036 --> 0:21:37.516 that if you travel five point one miles to a 0:21:37.596 --> 0:21:41.156 gym on average, you only go once a month, but 0:21:41.276 --> 0:21:44.476 if you travel three and a half miles on average, 0:21:44.516 --> 0:21:48.756 you go five times a month. So figuring out ways 0:21:48.876 --> 0:21:54.356 to streamline it so it becomes easier, make it more rewarding, 0:21:54.996 --> 0:21:57.796 so that you'll do it more. Those are the keys 0:21:57.876 --> 0:22:01.116 to forming a new habit. And when it's when you're 0:22:01.116 --> 0:22:03.636 not thinking about doing it anymore at the habit, right, 0:22:03.676 --> 0:22:06.796 I mean, when does it become a habit Exactly when 0:22:06.836 --> 0:22:10.796 the struggle ends and it's just cued by the environment 0:22:10.836 --> 0:22:14.556 around you and you're not even noticing that you're doing it, 0:22:15.276 --> 0:22:19.676 that's when it's a happen. So you cite these examples 0:22:19.756 --> 0:22:24.316 of friction that's mostly invisible to people, But then there 0:22:24.396 --> 0:22:28.796 is friction that is visible, fure friction you create. How 0:22:28.836 --> 0:22:33.436 can you be conscious of friction and the way that 0:22:33.476 --> 0:22:36.076 it's affecting your habits if so much of it is 0:22:36.756 --> 0:22:39.796 like the increment on how long it takes the elevator 0:22:39.796 --> 0:22:42.596 door to clothes, something we're not aware of at a 0:22:42.636 --> 0:22:49.796 conscious level. That is a challenge that many of us 0:22:49.876 --> 0:22:55.036 have because we believe in our own agency, right, we 0:22:55.196 --> 0:22:57.876 think that we are making decisions, and so that leads 0:22:57.956 --> 0:23:01.356 us to overlook many of the things that are actually 0:23:01.396 --> 0:23:06.596 influencing us in our environment. But I do think people 0:23:06.796 --> 0:23:12.796 can answer the question what would make it easier for 0:23:12.836 --> 0:23:17.036 me to do something and what would make it more difficult, 0:23:17.596 --> 0:23:21.156 Like if you want to save money taking your credit 0:23:21.196 --> 0:23:28.556 card out of automatic pay sites like Amazon or other 0:23:28.716 --> 0:23:34.396 sorts of online retailers. That makes sense, and most of 0:23:34.476 --> 0:23:37.076 us would be able to predict that that would make 0:23:37.076 --> 0:23:40.556 it a little harder for us to buy things. So 0:23:40.756 --> 0:23:45.556 once we start noticing these things, and once we're willing 0:23:45.636 --> 0:23:49.316 to say, okay, maybe I'm not completely in charge. Maybe 0:23:49.316 --> 0:23:51.996 there are a few things around me that also influence 0:23:52.076 --> 0:23:56.316 my behavior, and are they helping me. Once we start 0:23:56.436 --> 0:24:02.036 noticing them, I think that we can start to identify 0:24:02.836 --> 0:24:06.996 what they are for us personally. For you, Jacob, I 0:24:07.036 --> 0:24:11.036 would say, you already know your phone has this impact 0:24:11.116 --> 0:24:17.796 on you. You just keep hoping you're going to follow 0:24:17.876 --> 0:24:20.876 through on your best intentions and not take it with 0:24:20.956 --> 0:24:25.836 you tonight to bed. But over time, you'll probably learn 0:24:26.156 --> 0:24:31.196 how to keep your phone regularly in another room, put 0:24:31.236 --> 0:24:35.596 the charger in another room, do something to make it 0:24:35.996 --> 0:24:39.436 easier for you to remember to leave it there before 0:24:39.716 --> 0:24:42.276 you go to bed, and that's going to help you 0:24:42.596 --> 0:24:48.236 form that habit. Doctor Wendy Wood is Provost Professor of 0:24:48.236 --> 0:24:52.876 Psychology and Business at the University of Southern California. Solvable 0:24:52.916 --> 0:24:56.716 is produced by Joscelyn Frank, booking by Lisa Donne. Our 0:24:56.796 --> 0:25:01.396 managing producer is Katherine Girardell and Pushkin's executive producer is 0:25:01.436 --> 0:25:03.716 Mia Lobell. I'm Jacob Weisberg.