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Speaker 1: Just a quick note Jamie jumping in here to say

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Speaker 1: that Susan is a fan of the Bechdel Cast, but

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Speaker 1: does not necessarily share all of Caitlin and my views

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Speaker 1: enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 2: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zeph and

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Speaker 2: vest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Don Welcome to the Bechdel Cast, Kaitlyn.

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you something that like kind of

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Speaker 1: defies the Bechdel test immediately. But if Martin Scorsese was

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Speaker 1: given the choice, this is the trolley problem I'm going

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Speaker 1: to present. Either one of his children disappears forever because

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Speaker 1: he's got a lot, or the song Gimme Shelter was

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Speaker 1: never written. What do you think he would choose? I

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Speaker 1: feel like, and I love Martin Scorsese, I feel like

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Speaker 1: he has to love the song Gimme Shelter more than

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Speaker 1: at least one of his kids. Wow, I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's one he would part with.

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Speaker 3: He would depart with, he would depart with.

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Speaker 1: He would I think he would depart his least favorite

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Speaker 1: child this man loves. I mean, and I know maybe

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Speaker 1: it's just because we also just watch Goodfellas, but it's

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Speaker 1: in this movie for like forty whole minutes. It just

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Speaker 1: starts to loop during one scene. You're just like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it's his favorite.

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Speaker 3: As does that Dropkick Murphy's song I feel like plays

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Speaker 3: multiple times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll ask our guests in a second. I think

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Speaker 1: that there is actually kind of like a state law

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Speaker 1: about that song, Like you can't even kind of get

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Speaker 1: a permit to film if you don't use it, like.

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Speaker 3: To film in Boston or Massachusetts. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they won't let you unless you've already like

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Speaker 1: broke her to deal with with the Dropkick Murphy's. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's true in any case. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Bestel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name

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Speaker 1: is Caitlin Dante. This is our podcast where we examine

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Speaker 1: movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test

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Speaker 1: as a jumping off point. And as I've said recently,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm just over explaining what the Bechtel test is,

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Speaker 1: since it truly has not very much to do with

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Speaker 1: our show. So and certainly nothing to do with this movivie.

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Speaker 1: I yes. If you don't know what the Bechtel test is,

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Speaker 1: it is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel.

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Speaker 1: Lots of versions of the test. The version of the

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Speaker 1: test we use is that it requires two characters of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender with names talking to each other about

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Speaker 1: something other than a man. I include it in this

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Speaker 1: episode only because I'm pretty certain it does not happen

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Speaker 1: in this movie, not even close, like not even remote, Like,

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Speaker 1: oh god, this is It's so weird because Scorsese is

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Speaker 1: so all over the place with women characters. Like when

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Speaker 1: he nails it, he nails it. And sometimes he's just

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Speaker 1: like like there's this element of like there's one woman

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Speaker 1: in the movie, and she kind of just exists in

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Speaker 1: the context of two rooms, like Vera Farmiga is like

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Speaker 1: in an apartment or her office. Only I'm worried about her.

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Speaker 1: It feels like she's like got like a little ankle

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Speaker 1: bracelet that will start beeping if she wanders too a

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Speaker 1: far afield from the plot. In any case, that's what

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Speaker 1: our show is, and we can tell you right now

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Speaker 1: it doesn't pass the Bectel test. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about literally everything else that departed two thousand and

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Speaker 1: six Martin Scorsese Boston, and we have an incredible guest.

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Speaker 3: We sure do. She is a journalist, author, producer, and

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Speaker 3: New Englander. Her reporting is mostly on New England crime, okay,

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Speaker 3: relevant to one of the.

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Speaker 1: Movies you see what we're doing here what.

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Speaker 3: She wrote and produced the twenty two Hulu docuseries The

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Speaker 3: Murders Before the Marathon, which was named one of the

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Speaker 3: best shows of the year by The Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 3: and her book The Walthame Murders is out now. It's

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Speaker 3: Susan's all kind welcome.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into talking about the depoted, we want

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Speaker 1: to hear about the book. Let our listeners know, because

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Speaker 1: I know you've been conducting this investigation for over a decade.

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Speaker 5: Now, yeah, and I'm only just now getting the new

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Speaker 5: reporting in the book out there in the world. I

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Speaker 5: think most people have heard of the Boston marathon bombing,

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Speaker 5: the Whitey Bulger cases we'll talk about soon. It was

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Speaker 5: one of those huge Boston crime stories. I think the

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Speaker 5: Boston marathon bombing might even surpass that it was a

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Speaker 5: horrific attack, and there's still a lot of unanswered questions. Okay,

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Speaker 5: so Tamalin Sernaya was one of the bombers. Eighteen months

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Speaker 5: before the bombing, there was this horrific triple homicide in Waltham, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 5: Three men were found with their throat slit. There was

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Speaker 5: marijuana dumped on two of the bodies. It was this

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Speaker 5: extremely unusual, horrific murder. And at the time, I was

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Speaker 5: actually just out of college. I was working as a

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Speaker 5: freelance overnight production assistant at a local news station. Whitey

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Speaker 5: Bulger had just been busted and it was this big,

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Speaker 5: exciting story, and I was looking for a way to

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Speaker 5: work my way up to the assignment desk or maybe

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Speaker 5: become a reporter.

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Speaker 4: And I'm from the area.

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Speaker 5: I've been following homicide cases my whole life, and I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 5: this is an intriguing case, right, And then I found

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Speaker 5: out one of the victims was my friend marijuana dealer,

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Speaker 5: who was just like sweet, kind human being. He was

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Speaker 5: a great friend, not just to myself but to a

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Speaker 5: lot of members in my community. And I stopped reporting

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Speaker 5: on crime after that. Literally it was emotional to say

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Speaker 5: the least right. So that was my eager to be

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Speaker 5: a crime reporter, Whitey Bulger news, Go, Go, Go.

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Speaker 4: Crash and boom.

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Speaker 5: And then I found out my friend was killed, and

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Speaker 5: I stepped back from all of that. After the bombing,

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Speaker 5: there were new theories that maybe Tamalin Sirnaiev could have

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Speaker 5: been involved in the nine eleven eleven brutal homicide of

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Speaker 5: his friend. I was friends with one of the victims,

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Speaker 5: Tamalin Surnaie was actually friends and sparring partners with another

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Speaker 5: one of the victims, frend and Mess, and I was

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Speaker 5: of course very curious about that as well, and I

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Speaker 5: started looking into it, and I had inklings that maybe

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Speaker 5: this case wasn't being pursued aggressively by police at the time,

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Speaker 5: but this was a well funded police unit. It was

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Speaker 5: a really unusual murder, so I surprised about that. And

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Speaker 5: then one month later, a man in Florida was shot

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Speaker 5: dead by an FBI agent in an interview with two

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Speaker 5: Massachusett State troopers. He was shot seven times in his

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Speaker 5: own home, and the story that was leaked to the

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Speaker 5: press was that this man, who was also a MMA fighter,

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Speaker 5: confessed and that he implicated Tamerlin Cernayev and.

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Speaker 4: Himself in my friend's murder.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 5: But there was no on the record reporting on any

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Speaker 5: of this. So even though I had a personal connection

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Speaker 5: to this case, it was very emotional for me. I

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Speaker 5: knew that I needed answers, and I made a commitment

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Speaker 5: to push this case forward and to stick with it

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Speaker 5: until the end. And no more than a decade later

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Speaker 5: there I am holy shit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a wonderful book. I'm in the midst

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Speaker 1: of it right now, so we would definitely check it out.

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Speaker 1: And it makes you truly maybe the best possible guest

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Speaker 1: to have on the show to talk about the Departed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all three of us have lived in the Boston area

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Speaker 1: at one point or another, so let's start by talking

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Speaker 1: about our personal history with the movie and also just like,

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Speaker 1: say what area in Boston you've lived in?

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Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, Susan, Okay, I'm from Newton. Try not

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Speaker 4: to tell people.

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Speaker 5: Let's it destroys my street credibility.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's sober.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're cooked.

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Speaker 5: My family did the like Judish migration pattern on my

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Speaker 5: dad's side, so we went like Chelsea, Dorchester, Brookline, Newton and.

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Speaker 4: There we go.

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Speaker 5: But I actually uncover like a criminal underworld in my

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Speaker 5: hometown of Newton, Waltham and Watertown in the book, which

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Speaker 5: was really interesting to me because we don't usually think

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Speaker 5: about rime in that area because it's technically safe.

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Speaker 1: It's the end of the green line.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I uncover a history of criminal underworld in my

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Speaker 5: idyllic suburban hometown in the book, which may be one

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Speaker 5: reason why investigators weren't keen on getting answers case in

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Speaker 5: the first place. And also I lived in Cambridge for

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Speaker 5: years I got out of namely sure.

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Speaker 3: And then what's your history with the movie The Departed?

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Speaker 4: My history Departed?

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Speaker 5: This is one of the movies that you have to

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Speaker 5: watch if you're reporting on a crime, if you're trying

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Speaker 5: to get a sense for the crime. I mean, The

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Speaker 5: Departed is the movie that men on Tinder dates quote

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Speaker 5: back to me most frequently when I tell them a reporter.

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Speaker 5: So there's that, there's that part of the history of

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Speaker 5: The Departed. Looking back on it, I can definitely see that.

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Speaker 5: I think I took it in at a young age,

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Speaker 5: not very skeptically, you know. Now we're watching it a

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Speaker 5: little bit closer. But it's one of those movies that

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Speaker 5: kind of just seeps into your soul if you're in

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Speaker 5: the Boston.

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Speaker 4: Area, for better or worse.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of part of local Boston lore at this

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Speaker 5: point as well.

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Speaker 1: It's deep part of Boston.

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Speaker 3: It's deep part of it.

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Speaker 1: It's a deep part of it. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: WHOA so many puns going from Little Jamie today.

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Speaker 1: I know it's because I'm sick. Honestly, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I like something something's wrong. Like you know, like when

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Speaker 1: you're sick, you can tell you're getting sick because your

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Speaker 1: teeth kind of hurt. That's me today. My teeth always

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Speaker 1: kind of hurt.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: My history with That Departed is that I didn't see

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Speaker 1: it when it came out. I was thirteen when it

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Speaker 1: came out, and my mom was like, no, because I'm

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Speaker 1: from Brockton, which is famously shouted out. Yes, it is

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Speaker 1: by a murderer by the name of Alec Baldwin in

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Speaker 1: this movie. This movie is obviously about Boston, but in

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Speaker 1: a way, everyone in Brockton knows that Alec Baldwin says

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Speaker 1: Brockton fifth. He lives in Brockton with his mother. She's

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Speaker 1: straight out of going my Way. It's iconic in Brockton.

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Speaker 1: That we were acknowledged exactly one time in cinema.

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Speaker 3: Wow, well, don't forget about the menu. When Anya Taylor

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Speaker 3: Joy's character is allegedly from Brockton.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I think I got like more texts

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Speaker 1: about a movie that I've ever gotten than when the

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Speaker 1: Menu came out. They're like the twist. I went to

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Speaker 1: high school with her, but yeah, no, I didn't see

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Speaker 1: this movie when it came out. My mom also was

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Speaker 1: always very like, people get Massachusetts all wrong in movies,

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Speaker 1: and virtually all of her issues with how Massachusetts is

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Speaker 1: portrayed in movies exist within The Departed, which is fair enough.

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Speaker 1: I do think that like there is this tendency to

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Speaker 1: want to only portray Harvard and like four blocks of

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Speaker 1: southeet in every single movie about Massachusetts. There's very little

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Speaker 1: interest in anything outside of it. I've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about this forever, Like there are stereotypes about the area,

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Speaker 1: which are true. Boston is absolutely a very racist city.

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Speaker 1: But it's just really frustrating because there are many areas

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Speaker 1: of Massachusetts that are tremendously diverse and progressive, and one

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Speaker 1: of them is Brockton. And no never talks about Brockton

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Speaker 1: except for Annie Taylor Joy and Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 4: I love it when you talk about Brocton.

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Speaker 1: It's all I want to do is talk about Brockton. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: I've seen The Departed. The first time I saw it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this movie's good, And every time I

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Speaker 1: see it now I'm like, this movie is fine. This

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Speaker 1: movie is fine if.

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Speaker 5: You're just watching for the Boston accents, like this movie

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Speaker 5: is a mussy.

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Speaker 4: If you're just looking for like a tour de force

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Speaker 4: of like.

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Speaker 5: Boston actors and actors who aren't from Boston who want

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Speaker 5: to prove that they have like a Boston accent they

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Speaker 5: can put it on, or like are just having like

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Speaker 5: a lot of fun trying, then this is this is

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Speaker 5: the movie to watch, like.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely micro processes. Caitlin, what's your history with The Departed

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Speaker 1: and Boston.

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Speaker 3: Well, I lived in Somerville for four years when I

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Speaker 3: was attending Boston University, where I did get a master's

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Speaker 3: degree in screenwriting, which I of course never bring up.

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Speaker 3: But as I was going to school, I lived in Somerville.

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Speaker 3: I have seen The Departed a few times, once when

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Speaker 3: it came out, and then I rewatched it when I

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Speaker 3: was in said master's program because I wrote a script

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Speaker 3: when I was in grad school about the Boston Irish Mob.

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Speaker 4: What all, right, here we go.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know this.

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Speaker 3: Here's the thing. I did absolutely zero research on what

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Speaker 3: the Boston Irish Mob was.

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Speaker 1: Like, you just watched The Departed.

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Speaker 3: I literally just watched The Departed because it was an

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Speaker 3: action comedy. So I was like, it's a comedy, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't need to be that heavily researched anyway. So I

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Speaker 3: wrote that script and then I did absolutely nothing with it.

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Speaker 3: It is just sitting on a hard drive somewhere.

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Speaker 1: That's our most scripts.

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Speaker 3: But I watched The Departed I think a couple times

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Speaker 3: in order to like inform my writing of that script.

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Speaker 5: Do not watch The Departed if you're trying to learn

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Speaker 5: about the Boston Irish mom. But that said, like, maybe

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Speaker 5: we should partner up and like revive the script, like

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Speaker 5: with our paths.

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Speaker 4: I'm fine, maybe it could be could be ahead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, God, it's dangerous to talk about Boston and in

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Speaker 1: the show. I have two more quick things so that

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Speaker 1: I know we have to get started. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: quickly flex that I constantly confuse The Departed in the

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Speaker 1: town to me they are the same movie. Every time

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Speaker 1: I'm watching The Departed, I'm like, isn't John Hammon this movie? No,

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Speaker 1: he's not even famous. When this movie came out to me,

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Speaker 1: they're the same movie. They had the same vibe. However,

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Speaker 1: I went to the premiere of the Town for some reason.

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Speaker 1: It was at Fenway Park, and they made all of

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Speaker 1: the students sit in the bleachers at Fenway Park and

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Speaker 1: want to the town. But it was like on a

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Speaker 1: small screen in the middle of the baseball field. Don't

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Speaker 1: understand what the vision was because it was really hard

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Speaker 1: to see the movie. But you were at a Way

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Speaker 1: But I was at Fenway, I know. But it's also like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm from here, I don't care. Who cares? I don't care.

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Speaker 1: Wait park, it's historical, it's amazing, Green Monster. I worked

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Speaker 1: at a bagels shop across from Fenway Park, and I

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Speaker 1: really grew to hate Red Sox fans with just a

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Speaker 1: burning passion. They were so rude about their bagels. Finally,

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Speaker 1: Whitey Bulger connection my aunt's father, who's not related to

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Speaker 1: me because she's not actually my aunt, but my aunt's

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Speaker 1: father was arrested twice because he looked a lot like

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Speaker 1: Whitey Bulger, whoa, And so his neighbors called the cops

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Speaker 1: on him. The bar tender at the bar he went

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Speaker 1: to called the cops on him. Like he became sort

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Speaker 1: of like a locally famous figure for always getting arrested

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Speaker 1: for looking like Whitey Bulger. Anyways, may he rest in peace.

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Speaker 5: I love that, And I also feel like one fourth

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Speaker 5: of like the population of men of a certain age.

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Speaker 4: I know he looked like Whitey Bulger.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, he looks like an old white guy.

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Speaker 1: But I guess like the facial hair like it was

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Speaker 1: all and he lived in the area as well, so

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Speaker 1: they were like Whitey Bulger walks above us. But it

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Speaker 1: was just mister Smith.

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Speaker 5: And I guess that's like the thing about Whitey Bulger.

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Speaker 5: It's not just Whitey Bulger. It's like the myth of

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Speaker 5: Whitey Bulger that is so part yea of like the

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Speaker 5: Boston lore for decades and decades, and how that's myth

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Speaker 5: has changed, and how he's like shaped the myth about

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Speaker 5: himself as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about the Frank Costello overlap, but

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about the movie let's do it.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back. And we are back, and it's

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Speaker 3: time for the recap. And I'm gonna give a little

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Speaker 3: disclaimer on this recap, which is that I was mostly

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Speaker 3: following the movie, but a lot of things happen in

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Speaker 3: the movie that I don't understand why or how they happen,

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how to just gribe a lot

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Speaker 3: of what happens. So this recap might be a big

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Speaker 3: mess and it might not make any sense. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Let's find out.

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Speaker 1: This is a group project. We've got this.

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Speaker 5: I'd say that this is like one of the challenges

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Speaker 5: of the Departed. Like I've known two like close family

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Speaker 5: members who can't tell, like Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio

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Speaker 5: apart in this movie until like an hour in, So

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Speaker 5: that can kind of be like a twist for some people.

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Speaker 3: I don't have that problem. I am very very good

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Speaker 3: at distinguishing those two boys. Okay, it's just the rest

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Speaker 3: of the plot that I don't really know. If I understand.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a haircut issue. For me. It's just

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Speaker 1: like they just needed more. If you're going to cast

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Speaker 1: two white guys, do you just give everyone a different

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Speaker 1: haircut at least m Anyways, The Departed The Departed.

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Speaker 3: So where in Boston, specifically South Boston aka Southy we

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Speaker 3: meet Frank Costello played by Jack Nicholson. He is an

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Speaker 3: Irish mob boss and he has this kid start working

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Speaker 3: for him named Colin Sullivan. And the kid looks like

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Speaker 3: he's going to grow up to be Matt Damon, and

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Speaker 3: sure enough, cut to him as Matt Damon, and he

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Speaker 3: is finishing his training to become a cop for the

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Speaker 3: Massachusetts State Police Department. He's also being very homophobic when

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Speaker 3: we first meet him.

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Speaker 1: Well, don't forget, he's also big racist when we first

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Speaker 1: beat him.

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Speaker 3: He's being written Frank Costello's being very racist. Every character

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Speaker 3: in this movie is very racist and or homophobic and

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Speaker 3: or sexist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Every possible stereotype around characters you see in movies

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Speaker 1: from Boston are present in the first two minutes of

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Speaker 1: this movie.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but like explicitly about like them saying like horrifically

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Speaker 5: offensive things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, dropping slurs.

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Speaker 5: About like other races and genders. There's like nothing likable

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Speaker 5: about Frank Costello at any point in this film, certainly not.

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Speaker 4: Except for his suits.

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Speaker 3: Times, except for when he wears a shirt that just

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Speaker 3: says Irish on it and that we support.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like, Frank, the Irish did not claim you.

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Speaker 1: We don't claim you.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So then we meet another cop, Billy Costigan, played

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Speaker 3: by Leonardo DiCaprio. He is a kind of lowly state

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Speaker 3: police officer. In fact, I don't think he ever finishes

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Speaker 3: his training. He also got like a fourteen hundred on

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Speaker 3: his SAT and he can quote Hawthorne and stuff, so

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Speaker 3: we're like, okay, he's smart. Question mark. Anyway, his mother

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Speaker 3: has just passed away, and that's something that I guess

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Speaker 3: is important for us to learn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's based in truth,

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Speaker 1: but like it's also just like okay, we also in

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Speaker 1: the first ten minutes have a woman dies for the

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Speaker 1: plot to be in even though it's like not it

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Speaker 1: wasn't necessary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The key thing about Leonardo is that he has two accents.

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Speaker 4: He has his Southy like Boston accent, and then.

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Speaker 5: He also from like the north Shore, like an upper

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Speaker 5: class family like Gloucester, maybe marvel Head, and so he

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Speaker 5: has he's a double guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he's a he's a class shifter. He's a

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Speaker 1: sheep shifter.

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Speaker 3: He's code switching. He is among Boston Boston class I

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Speaker 3: mean kind of yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so he can turn the Boston accent on and

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Speaker 5: off and it's like, oh, Leo, you actually do a

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Speaker 5: pretty decent Boston accent.

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Speaker 4: So that's a huge takeaway he.

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Speaker 1: Does, which is also important in a worse Martin Scrazi movie,

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Speaker 1: Shutter Island.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's right. I need to rewatch that one.

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Speaker 1: Once you know the twist. It's not as fun but

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Speaker 1: still good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right. Then we meet some more cops. They

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Speaker 3: are Martin Sheen and Mark Wahlberg, and I do just

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Speaker 3: keep their actors' names throughout this recap, so sorry about that,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, that's fine. They run the like undercover division

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Speaker 3: of the Organized Crime Unit of the State Police Department,

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Speaker 3: and Billy has a meeting with them, and they think

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Speaker 3: that Billy is a good candidate to go undercover and

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Speaker 3: infiltrate Frank Costello's crime family, basically become one of Frank's minions.

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Speaker 1: Minions. Yes, I also wrote down Maybian overlap minion representation.

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Speaker 3: So Frank Costello is grew and Billy is about to

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Speaker 3: become like Kevin le Mignon. He wishes, he wishes he's

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Speaker 3: maybe more of a steward or a bob. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: It's true. So much of this movie is just like

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Speaker 1: the different leaders being like which guy is your guy?

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Speaker 1: And everyone's just trying to figure out whose guy is

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Speaker 1: whose guy?

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Speaker 4: So much that's the plot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, where's the guy that?

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Speaker 3: Which guy is the guy? Of the guy?

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Speaker 1: I guess that's a lot of crime thrillers. Where's the guy?

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Speaker 1: It's usually he's right here, he's standing right next to you.

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Speaker 3: He's the guy you don't suspect because he's right in

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Speaker 3: front of your face. Anyway. Okay, So Martin Sheen and

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Speaker 3: Mark Wahlberg want Billy to go undercover and become a minion,

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Speaker 3: and to be able to convincingly do that, Billy will

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Speaker 3: have to be like, quote unquote fired from being a

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Speaker 3: cop and do jail time for like an assaultant battery

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Speaker 3: charge so that Costello won't suspect that Billy is still

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Speaker 3: a cop. Meanwhile, Colin gets promoted to detective and he

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Speaker 3: starts working under Alec Baldwin, who leads the organized crime division,

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Speaker 3: but not the undercover part, so he doesn't know who's

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Speaker 3: undercover and who's not, and that crime Division is targeting

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Speaker 3: Frank Costello. They're trying to take him down. But wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, Colin still works for Costello. I guess the

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Speaker 3: idea is that Colin became a cop because Costello wanted

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Speaker 3: someone on the inside to be his little spot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and because, like we've been saying for years, every

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Speaker 1: movie is ultimately about fathers and sons. Yes, there is

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Speaker 1: an element of both the Matt Damon and the DiCaprio

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Speaker 1: characters that is like, is Jack Nicholson my dad?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I mean, at least I feel like this movie

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Speaker 1: has something to say about that, which is, no, he's not.

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Speaker 1: He's not your daddy, He's no one's daddy.

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Speaker 3: Then the police find out about a robbery where these

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Speaker 3: like military grade, super expensive micro processes were stolen.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, just when you think they're not gonna

436
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: say it again, they say it again. I feel like

437
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: every character says it, but it really just draws your attention.

438
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: For me. I should have ranked who says micro processes

439
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: the best most of it is just like, well, Mark

440
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: Wahlberg says it the most and the best mm hmm.

441
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: But Matt Damon gets one or two in there sure,

442
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: and Sheen says it. If someone says it, everyone has

443
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 1: to say it. I love it.

444
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: It's beautiful.

445
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: It reminds me of how like the First Fast and

446
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: the Furious is about like stealing DVD players. You're like,

447
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: why this bizarre piece of dated technology?

448
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 3: Anyway, So they know about this robbery and they know

449
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 3: that Frank Costello and his minions are behind it. Meanwhile,

450
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 3: Billy does his jail time and then he is released,

451
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: and then he gets to work on finding an inn

452
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 3: with Costello by way of his like low level criminal

453
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 3: cousin who is kind of vaguely connected to Costello. And

454
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: then Billy finally meets Costello, who wants to know if

455
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 3: Billy's still a cop. He's like beating his like broken

456
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 3: hand about it to get him to confess, but Billy

457
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: doesn't relent, and so Costello trusts him and lets him

458
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 3: become a minion. Meanwhile, Billy keeps reporting to Martin Sheen

459
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: and Mark Wahlberg. They're still trying to nail Costello for

460
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 3: this micropross us or robbery. Then one of Costello's minions,

461
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 3: but like a very important minion. In fact, this might

462
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: be Kevin le Mignon.

463
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: This is Kevin, Yeah, this is.

464
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: Actually no, Kevin is probably mister French. This is another

465
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 3: guy he gets arrested, so Colin is like, Colin knows

466
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: the cops are about to raid one of like Frank's

467
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 3: crime spots.

468
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, this is a good scene where Matt Damon

469
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 5: lies to everyone.

470
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: I do not understand what's happening, but basically he does

471
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 3: this sneaky thing where he like warns Costello about the raid,

472
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: but it makes it look like he's doing his cop job.

473
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: Well, but like he's playing both sides.

474
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, he shows he's playing both sides, so he pretends

475
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 5: to be the guy's lawyer, so he makes it it's complicated.

476
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

477
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

478
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

479
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 3: While all of this stuff is happening, Colin has met

480
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: and has started dating Madeline played by Vera Farmiga. She

481
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 3: is a psychiatrist who I don't know if she specifically

482
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: works with the police department, but she has a lot

483
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 3: of clients who are cops.

484
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah fair for Meca's character is so interesting also because

485
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: it's like I guess that she the source material that

486
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: this is or one of the pieces of source material

487
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: is a Hong Kong action movie where her character is two.

488
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 3: Women, mm, which makes more sense.

489
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's done away with in favor of

490
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: making this very boring love triangle that I don't care about.

491
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: And also, why have two women when you could have

492
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: one fewer? Question mark?

493
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 5: Right?

494
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: But it's just I was like, I mean, I guess

495
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: that more cops should be a therapy, but that I

496
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: don't know.

497
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can talk about it. Yeah, but anyway, So

498
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: Colin has started dating her, but you know who else

499
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 3: has started seeing Madeline at first in a psychiatrist's client capacity.

500
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: It's Billy Costigan.

501
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: Oops.

502
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: Oops.

503
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: She also couldn't tell the difference between DiCaprio and Damon,

504
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: so she's just like, are you my boyfriend? I have

505
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: face blind its yeah, okay.

506
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: So Billy does not know that Colin is in cahoots

507
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: with Costello, and Colin does not know that Billy is undercover.

508
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: He just knows that Billy is one of Costello's new

509
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 3: guys new Minions.

510
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: Yes, he's like Auto basically right from my Minion heads.

511
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't even know that one, so I'm a

512
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: fake fan.

513
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: He's new, he's new, don't worry about it anyway.

514
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: So, at this point, Billy has been undercover for a year.

515
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: He's getting very anxious, but Martin Sheen and Mark Wahlberg

516
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: need more time to build their case against Costello. They

517
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: also suspect that Costello has a spy in the police force,

518
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: but they don't know that it's Colin Sullivan. Then Alec

519
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: Baldwin sets up this like bust to try to get

520
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: Costello as he's selling the microprocessors and Colin is secretly

521
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 3: texting Costello information, Billy is secretly texting Martin Sheen information,

522
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: and ultimately the cops are not able to bust Costello

523
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: during this transaction and from this and I don't understand

524
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: how because I don't know how crime works, and I

525
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: don't know how cops work. But Billy is able to

526
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 3: confirm that there is a rat in the police department,

527
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: so he and Martin Sheen and Mark Wahlberg get to

528
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 3: work on figuring out who it is. Meanwhile, Madeline has

529
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: transferred Billy to another psychiatrist, so he asks her out

530
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: for coffee and they go to coffee and she's talking

531
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 3: about her boyfriend.

532
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 5: After like crushing her into like giving him pills. So

533
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 5: that's like that's how the romance starts.

534
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she does it to prove she's not

535
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: like other psychiatrists. I'm like, this is not this is

536
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: not how you do your job. The only woman we

537
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: know and she's bad at her job. Great.

538
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, Oh then Costello like a girlfriend surprisingly like at

539
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 5: the end too, she.

540
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: Has I couldn't tell if those were multiple girlfriends or

541
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: if it was just one woman.

542
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter.

543
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 3: He's very sexist to all of them, whoever they are.

544
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an equal opportunity misogynist. He will be horrible

545
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: to anyone. True anyway. So they're out for coffee, Madeline

546
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: and Billy, and she's talking about her boyfriend, who Billy

547
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: does not know is Colin, So there's another level of like,

548
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: who is this guy?

549
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: And he doesn't know who Colin is either, right.

550
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: Not yet at least. Then Costello calls Colin to be like,

551
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: I'm getting the feeling like one of my minions is

552
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: an undercover cop below, and Colin agrees, and he wants

553
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 3: Costello to give him the real names and social security

554
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: numbers of all the guys in his crew so that

555
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: Colin can like run them through the cop database or something.

556
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: And then Billy learns from some guy who we haven't

557
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: seen before and we won't see again. That Costello is

558
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: actually a protected FBI informant and that's why he never

559
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: gets busted. And Billy is like, wait what, And Billy

560
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: relays this information to Martin Sheen and throws this whole

561
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: wrench in the situation. Then Billy shows up at Madeleine's

562
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: house and suddenly they're making out and they have sex,

563
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: even though she's still with Colin and now living with him.

564
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 4: But she has doubts, she has doubts.

565
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: She has such doubts fair enough, because he's like, I

566
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: don't want a picture of you as a child at

567
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: my apartment.

568
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: In our living room.

569
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 5: Yeah. I was like, what, Okay, he's not a great boyfriend, so,

570
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 5: like you can kind of I understand why she might

571
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 5: want somebody else but.

572
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 4: Her client who hassles her or pills.

573
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: You know, there's question not a better option.

574
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't care that she cheats on him. I

575
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: just care how she cheats on him.

576
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: And with whom. Yeah, and it's someone who's basically just

577
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: as bad. Yeah, ain't that just the way true? Anyway?

578
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: So Alec Baldwin signs calling the duty of investigating the

579
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: like organized Crime Division to find out who the rat is.

580
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: He he's the rat, and so he's like, Okay, sure

581
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: I'll find him. JK. Then there's this little meeting at

582
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: a porn theater between Costello and Colin. Billy is there

583
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: lurking in the background in secret. He's trying to figure

584
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: out who the rat is.

585
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: It feels like a priest and a rabbi joke, like

586
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: that whole seed is like a Jack Nicholson, a Leonardo DiCaprio,

587
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: and a Matt Damon all enter a porn theater like

588
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: it's just and they don't even bother to put like

589
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: a fourth person in there. It's just them. I love it.

590
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, kind of like a metaphor for the whole movie. Really.

591
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: I think I was like at that point in this

592
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: viewing room, I'm like, yeah, this movie's pretty silly.

593
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: It's kind of sillier than people give it credit for it. Yeah. Anyway,

594
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 3: So Colin has this envelope with all of the names

595
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: and social security numbers of Costello's crews because he's trying

596
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 3: to figure out who the mole is. Billy follows Colin.

597
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: He's trying to id him, but he loses Colin before

598
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 3: he can identify him. So Billy still doesn't know that

599
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: the rat is Colin, and Colin, who knows someone was

600
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: following him, still doesn't know that the mole is Billy.

601
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

602
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 5: So like Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio have this like

603
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 5: really charged relationship, Yeah, but.

604
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 4: They don't know who the other person is.

605
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 3: Right at the same time, and so the tension is

606
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: mounting about it. And then Colin is trying to still

607
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: figure out for Costello who the undercover cop is, and

608
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: for reasons that I totally definitely understand, he doesn't suspect Billy,

609
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: but he does suspect Martin Sheen. So now he has

610
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: everyone tailing Martin Sheen and Costello's minions throw him off

611
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: of a building and he dies, and then there's this

612
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: big shootout between the mob boys and the cops, the.

613
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Shot where Martin she basically explodes again like it's gross.

614
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure physics to some extent bears that out, but

615
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: again you're just like, it's silly, it's silly.

616
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: It's silly.

617
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like slapstick gruesome.

618
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 5: So that's like the next yeah, the next turn, it's

619
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 5: like it's kind of.

620
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 4: Like a slapstick horror.

621
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 5: Yeah film in some ways, and in that way, it's like,

622
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 5: you know, it's kind of is what it is.

623
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I, yeah, I feel like some of

624
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: the violence in this movie is so over the top

625
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: and visceral. And then sometimes it's like and here's Martin

626
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: Sheen and he's gonna explode. Basically you're like, oh, okay.

627
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 4: I guess not a lot of nuance.

628
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 3: Not much. No, So then Colin gets access to Martin

629
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 3: Sheen's like burner phone and stuff. He also learns that

630
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 3: Costello is an FBI informant, and with the burner phone,

631
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: he calls Billy and they're both like, who is this

632
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 3: because they still don't know. And then that night the

633
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: cops go after Costello. There's another bigger shootout, and this

634
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: time Costello gets shot and killed by Colin because he's like,

635
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: you're an informant, boo, you're not my dad exactly, yeah, truly.

636
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: Then the cops are like, wow, good job, buddy, you

637
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 3: got his ass. And so after that, Colin and Billy

638
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: have a little chat and in the same moment they

639
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: each discover that the other one is the rat. Billy

640
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 3: by seeing the envelope Colin just by virtue of like

641
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: seeing him and knowing that he's the one guy who

642
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: would have been the undercover cop.

643
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: I think he responded to his call right like yeah,

644
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: but it's not until he.

645
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 5: His handler's gone, and so now, like Martin Sheen would

646
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 5: have been his only like contact.

647
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: The office, right, So when he shows up at the

648
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 3: police department, he's like, oh, that's the guy.

649
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 4: And for some reason, he doesn't think to go to

650
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 4: Mark Wahlberg.

651
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: Because Mark Wahlberg was so agro that he quit Slash

652
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 3: got fired, so he's not there right now.

653
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: So I miss that. Okay, Mark Wolberg is fired.

654
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, Alec Baldwin's like take a two week

655
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: leave of absence, and then Mark Wahlberg's like, fuck you,

656
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 3: I quit. That's why he's not around for.

657
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: Now, got it, But wait, but wait.

658
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 3: A minute, he'll come back anyway. So Colin, because he

659
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: now realizes that Billy Costigan is the undercover guy, he

660
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 3: deletes all records that Billy was ever a cop to

661
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 3: I guess protect Colin's is whatever something. And then Billy

662
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: runs away and he goes to Madeleine to give her

663
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: a different envelope, and he tells her to open it

664
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: if anything happens to him. Meanwhile, Madeleine says to Colin, Hey,

665
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 3: I'm Gregnant, and he's.

666
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: Like, what, Yeah, Checkov's Greg.

667
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: Check offs Greg Chekhov's envelope. There's all kinds of stuff

668
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 3: going on here. Then Billy blackmails Colin with audio recordings

669
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 3: that Costello had recorded because he was like recording everything. Basically,

670
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: Costella was like, I want to have a podcast. I

671
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 3: want to be recording my voice all the time. So

672
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: Madeline listens to the recording and so now she knows

673
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: that her boyfriend Colin is a slimy little rat.

674
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: Whoops. She also listens to it, just like a very

675
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: two thousand and six detail of this movie is she

676
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: listens to the CD on a gigantic entertainment center with headphones.

677
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: Really beautiful.

678
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 3: It was beautiful. So then Billy arrests Colin, but before

679
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: he can bring him in, another cop shoots and kills Billy.

680
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: And this other cop is another one of Costello's minions

681
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: who he had on the inside. But then Colin shoots

682
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 3: him so as to erase any evidence that Colin was

683
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: another one of Costello's like inside rat guys, I think

684
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 3: question Mark, and he thinks he's safe. Colin does until

685
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: he goes home and Mark Wahlberg is in his apartment

686
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: and he shoots and kills Colin because I guess that

687
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: Madeleine had opened the envelope and went to Mark Wahlberg.

688
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: But we don't see that on screen. And I'm just

689
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 3: speculating the end.

690
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 5: Somehow, Mark Wahlberg has figured.

691
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 1: It all out.

692
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: He's figured it out.

693
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: Talk about a movie contrivance, having Mark Wahlberg display signs

694
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: of human intelligence, right.

695
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 5: Put it out a Boston crime book here, Jamie.

696
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Mark Wahlberg is just I feel like,

697
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: also our Boston mascots that the media has selected are

698
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: generally not great people. Why can't Jenny Slat be the

699
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: state representative, right, someone who hasn't committed of race crime,

700
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: hate crimes.

701
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: And stuff, which makes the language in this film all

702
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 5: the more uncomfortable.

703
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, And.

704
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: We don't have to get into this too much, but

705
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: like the same way that like, Mark Wahlberg is just

706
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: letting home homophobic slurs rip and also he has done

707
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: that in interviews and you know all this stuff. Yeah,

708
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: I want to say really quickly because we just covered

709
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: Goodfellas on Newcomers. If you listen to Newcomers, We're going

710
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: to be doing that in an upcoming episode of Theirs.

711
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: So we just watched. We've been watching a lot of

712
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese crime movies, that's true. I like that Martin

713
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: Scarsese loves to have a famous guy walk into a

714
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: room and die right away. I feel like there's parallels

715
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: between the Joe Pesci oh no, oh no in Goodfellas,

716
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: but then with Matt Damon, he walks into his own

717
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: apartment and says, okay, okay, Yeah, I prefer Joe Pesci.

718
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: But it's funnier. At the very least.

719
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 5: Goodfellas is interesting because like want to be mom guys

720
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 5: like read it and study Good Fellows like it's like

721
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 5: their Bible. Right, They're like re enacting scenes from Goodfellas

722
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 5: or like posting like they're Goodfellas. They're like quoting Goodfellas.

723
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 5: So that's an important film in another way.

724
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, not, unlike the way I watched The Departed to

725
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: learn things for my own screenplay. We got to take

726
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 3: another quick break and then we will come right back,

727
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: and we're back, and we're back.

728
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: Before we get started, I want to talk a little

729
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: bit about the context of where this movie is coming from.

730
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,959
Speaker 1: It's a little more complicated than I realized. I knew

731
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: that it was pulling from and I know Susan that

732
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: you know way more about this than either of us do.

733
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: I knew that it was pulling from The Winter Hill

734
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: Gang and from Whitey Bulger Lore. I didn't realize that

735
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: this was an adaptation of a Hong Kong action movie

736
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: called Internal Affairs. There's not too much to say about

737
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: that other than the filmmakers of Internal Affairs were like,

738
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: we liked The Departed, it was too long. It was

739
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: the length of three movies, and you're just like dam

740
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: and also mentioned that the Vera Formiga character, like we

741
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: talked about before, is two characters both women in Internal Affairs,

742
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: and that they were like, we don't really know why

743
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: they made that change, but just for context. I just

744
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: didn't realize this was an adaptation of a different movie.

745
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: I thought it was just events.

746
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that either.

747
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, well it makes it makes sense given that context

748
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 5: and the writer. I actually it's William Monahan. He's like

749
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 5: an All weekly writer. He's a dort Chester guy, and

750
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 5: he's kind of a man of my own heart. He's

751
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 5: like hyper into like Boston regionality, and I think he

752
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 5: took that and then tried to fit that into this

753
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 5: internal affair script pulling some of.

754
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 4: The Whitey Bulger saga.

755
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: But also it's like it's very, very different than what

756
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: actually happened in Boston crime history. Yeah, I guess, Susan,

757
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: is there anything that stands out to you as like

758
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: worthy of mention in terms of parallels between this movie

759
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: and actual Boston crime history or is it mostly movie

760
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: movie history gobbledyep cook kind of stuff.

761
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 5: Well, I guess my biggest take, So Whitey Bulger is

762
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 5: this like South Boston mobster that usually when you think

763
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 5: about the caricature of Boston crime movies, they're usually set in.

764
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: Southie, up the town even Goodwill hunting.

765
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 5: And he was this criminal who was busted for robbery

766
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 5: at a younger age, sent to Alcatraz. The CIA actually

767
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 5: like doped him with like tons of acid, which is

768
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 5: another part.

769
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 4: Of the story that usually gets like left out.

770
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 5: I did not know he was literally part of like

771
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 5: the MK Ultra experiment. So he comes back from prison

772
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 5: and he's now like all like doped up, and his

773
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 5: brother Billy meanwhile, has become this very powerful Boston politician.

774
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 5: He was like the president of the Massachusetts State Senate

775
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 5: for nineteen years. And there's a relationship between Whitey Bulger

776
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 5: and members of law enforcement, specifically the FBI.

777
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 4: So you have John Conley, who I.

778
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 5: Think is the basis for the Colin Sullivan character Matt Damon,

779
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 5: who knew Whitey Bulger when he was a kid, like

780
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 5: Whitey bought him like an ice cream cone and like

781
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 5: scared away his like bullies. But I don't think he

782
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 5: has the same like longstanding connection to Whitey growing up.

783
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 4: He does have a connection to Whitey's brother Billy though.

784
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.

785
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 5: So here's a part of the like Whitey Bulger story

786
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 5: that gets me really annoyed that we're not looking at

787
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: it more. But Whitey Bulger's FBI handler, John Conley, got

788
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 5: busted for basically being paid off by Whitey, like tipping

789
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 5: him off the things, even being involved in murders. And

790
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 5: he was busted, but his supervisor, the guy above him,

791
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 5: got immunity, right, So there was never an investigation into

792
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 5: like the people overseeing Conley or how deep the problem

793
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 5: went into the FBI. It just stopped at John Conley,

794
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 5: his boss got immunity for giving him up. And the

795
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 5: White Bulger story, which you know, back in the day,

796
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 5: there was this myth about White Bulger, which I think

797
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 5: he put forth himself, that he was really this Robin

798
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 5: Hood figure. He kept drugs out of the neighborhood and

799
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 5: he didn't hurt women, which isn't true.

800
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 4: He murdered women. But their next layer.

801
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 5: Of that of like how deep the problem went, has

802
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 5: never really been assessed. And I'm critical of stories that

803
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 5: don't frame the deeper systemic problem. They just they paint

804
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 5: like one really bad guy and that's the He's the

805
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 5: one kind of raising the cops. It's not an issue

806
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 5: with law enforcement.

807
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: At large, I feel. And we can dive into this more,

808
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: but to me, this movie perpetuates the myth of a

809
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 3: police force might have one or two bad apples via

810
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: you know, Colin being the corrupt cop who has this

811
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: in with the mob, but that most of them are

812
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: just doing their job and they're good guys actually and

813
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. And I take a lot of issue

814
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 3: with that, obviously, and I feel like that's a pretty

815
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: big component of this movie.

816
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: It's interesting that we're that this is a Scorsese movie,

817
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: and that it was like the movie he won his

818
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: first Oscar for, and even like there's a quote from

819
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: Scorsese about it that it's like kind of weird that

820
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: this is the movie that he won his oscar for,

821
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: because it's not even in his life top five of

822
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: like his best movies. And I just think that like

823
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,919
Speaker 1: he's handled a lot of these themes that we're talking

824
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: about being missed like way better in his body of work.

825
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: So it just like ends up feeling a little dissonant.

826
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: Where there's plenty of Martin Scorsese movies where there are

827
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: cop and law enforcement characters and the movie is far

828
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: more critical of them, And there's plenty of Martin Scorsese

829
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: gangster movies where there's more shades of gray and complexity.

830
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,479
Speaker 1: But I feel like this movie just kind of gets

831
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: like bogged down in the like I don't know, for me,

832
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: it feels like the ultimate message is like any duplicitous

833
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: person is gonna get.

834
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: Killed or like they're gonna be departed.

835
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt like an oversimplified theme and like in

836
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: service of that theme ends up bailing on a lot

837
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: of the anti cop and anti establishment themes you see

838
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: throughout Martin Scorsese's work, it's just like a weird one.

839
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, And the more I watch it, the

840
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: more i'm you know, like there's certainly like moments where

841
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, that is critical of policing, but then

842
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: it's always kind of scaled back to keep the through,

843
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: whether it's like, well, actually we want you to focus

844
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: on this love triangle that's not necessary now, or like

845
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: we want you to focus on this, this, and this.

846
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: It definitely seems to believe that, you know, law enforcement

847
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: is more good than bad, and that part of the

848
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: problem is that there's all these poor mobsters that are

849
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: infiltrating law enforcement, Like that's the issue. Yeah, and I

850
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: will say that the fact that Frank ultimately working with

851
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: law enforcement like that is a statement. It just I

852
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: feel like in characters like the Martin Sheen character and

853
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: the Mark Wahlberg character, like these are presented as like

854
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: these are our good cops who want to do good things,

855
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: and like Mark Wahlberg is so good that he gets fired.

856
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: Like it's just I don't think it's like certainly not

857
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: anywhere near the worst leaning into pro cop. I just

858
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: it feels really muddled though for me in this.

859
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 5: Movie, Well, if you're watching for the Boston accents alone,

860
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 5: which is how I suggest watching this movie, I think

861
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 5: another point of context is at the time, So Bulger

862
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 5: was tipped off to a bust by his FBI handler

863
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 5: in the nineties, and so he was on the lamb

864
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 5: for sixteen years and he wasn't arrested until two thousand

865
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 5: and eleven.

866
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he could have seen The Departed in theaters.

867
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: Oh, he absolutely did.

868
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 5: He wasn't busted until then, So there still was this

869
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 5: element of mystery surrounding the story of this Boston Irish

870
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 5: gangster who was able to infiltrate local cops and the FBI.

871
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 5: So I think there's that's part of the intrigue. And also, again,

872
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 5: like I said, it's just the boys really go in

873
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 5: on their Boston accents. I think that's really what the

874
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 5: movie is about at the end.

875
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 3: Of the day, It's really about that largely.

876
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 4: Yeah.

877
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 5: And Mark Wahlberg is also like very specifically his accent

878
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 5: is Dorchester like, so he gets to represent that and

879
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 5: really really go in.

880
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: Before we get into our one woman, I just wanted

881
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: to shout out one of my favorite character actors is

882
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 1: in this movie. Mister Kevin Corrigan. Oh yes, he plays

883
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: the cousin.

884
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

885
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: No, one plays a dirt bag like mister Kevin Corgan.

886
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: He's not from Boston, He's from the Bronx. But I

887
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: was just like revisiting Kevin Corrigan's resume and I just

888
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: wanted to It's really fun to just read out his

889
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: character names, one right after the other, because he is

890
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: certainly typed. I just want to share a few. Jimmy Stella, Tella,

891
00:49:51,880 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: Frankie Spivak, Finn garrety Zlas Losowski, Flossy, Sean Garretty, Titus A. Moatto, Smitty,

892
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Milkshake, what Jackie Moreno, Jimmy Pearson, Master Thief, Declan Sullivan, Venerio,

893
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: Vincent Bishop. Like it's this guy plays a type and

894
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: he plays I love Kevin Corey. He was on this

895
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: sitcom I watched when I was a kid called Grounded

896
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: for Life, and he played dirt bag uncle. And apparently

897
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: that resonated with me because I'm always really happy to

898
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: see him.

899
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. There are some like fairly good like Boston scenes,

900
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 5: Like so that's one scene with Leo when they're on

901
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 5: the couch and Leo's like, you know, I'm not a cup,

902
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 5: I'm your cousin, and.

903
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: You must be my cousin.

904
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 5: Shit, Like they're like, oh, that is like a very accurate,

905
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 5: like southyst scene of that time.

906
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Speaking from experience, cousins from Boston can be real pieces

907
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: of shit, It's true. Okay, let's talk about the one woman.

908
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: Yes. Well, first, I'll say that something that I think

909
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: is kind of interesting about this movie is that there's

910
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: this motif I suppose throughout the movie about like male feelings,

911
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: and that comes by way of the Madaline character being

912
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 3: a mental health professional. Yeah, so I want to talk

913
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: a little bit more about like the male feelings of

914
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: it all. But yes, for Madeleine, I mean, classic case

915
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 3: of the movie has exactly one woman in it. She

916
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 3: to me, doesn't really feel like a real person or

917
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: a real psychiatrist. Like the way she does her job

918
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: is very questionable. She starts dating Colin, and I had

919
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: a very hard time suspending my disbelief that a mental

920
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 3: health professional would fall in love with this like emotionally

921
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: repressed cop, especially because a lot of the clients she

922
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: sees are emotionally repressed cops.

923
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 5: He knows her, he gets her, He knows that he lies.

924
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 5: He's able to read her in this way that nobody

925
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 5: else does. And she has a past, but it doesn't

926
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 5: matter what it is, because she's like, let's keep it

927
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 5: about you.

928
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 3: Oh well, no, that's her and Billy. I'm talking about

929
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: her in Colin because she starts dating both of them,

930
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 3: question Mark and both of them. I don't know why

931
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 3: she's into them.

932
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 5: West the elevator banter, and also like she doesn't have a.

933
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 4: Thick Boston accent.

934
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 5: I know he does, and I think that's part of

935
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 5: like the tough boy like.

936
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 4: I think there's some sort of element there as well.

937
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: I mean, she's definitely bad at her job. There are

938
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: plenty of therapists who are irresponsible. There are plenty of

939
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 1: therapists who have fucked their clients. However, this is the

940
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: one therapist we see in the movie, as well as

941
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: the one woman, and so it just feels like it's

942
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that at least it is plot relevant

943
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: at least once of what like her job is, because

944
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like you're just told, like she teachs

945
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: first grade and that, but it doesn't actually matter. She

946
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: could do anything, Like it is relevant what she's doing,

947
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: but not for very long, like after a while, and Susan,

948
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: you're totally right. I feel like there's multiple points in

949
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: the movie where she is set up to share more

950
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: about herself and then it doesn't happen. It's really weird

951
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: to me, and it's always like in service of no, actually,

952
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: let's talk about because this movie obviously has a gigantic

953
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: interest in like the three main men's background, and it

954
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: feels really egregious that like there's no interest in why

955
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 1: she's doing what she's doing. When she's asked, she's just like,

956
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: I just want to make a different, like just very vague.

957
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 5: Well, I think that's why keeping her as a therapist

958
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 5: is so convenient, because there's no we don't need to

959
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 5: figure out anything else about her. Is just like a

960
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 5: female character that has a love interest on the elevator.

961
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 5: What we learn about her really just serves to prove

962
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 5: that Leonardo DiCaprio's character is like smart and is able

963
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 5: to read people.

964
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 4: And yeah, so I.

965
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 5: Think that there's nothing about her own personal background that

966
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 5: really is relevant to this plot and the way that

967
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 5: it's written.

968
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: I mean, and also, like smart women date pieces of

969
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: shit all the time, right, But again, this is our

970
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,720
Speaker 1: one woman that we have, and like, the only reason

971
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: we're to believe that she's going to go for DiCaprio

972
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: is because he cares that she was a child once.

973
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: But Matt Damon is like, I don't care that you're

974
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: a child. Get that shit out of my face. It's

975
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: just like, so everything with her is unbelievably vague.

976
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 3: It's so bizarre, yeah, to the point where, like, you know,

977
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: another motif of this movie is like lying and honesty

978
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: versus dishonesty. And there's that scene where I think it's

979
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: the first scene where Billy goes to see Madeline as

980
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: like a client psychiatrist relationship, and he's like, well, what

981
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 3: about you?

982
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: Do you lie?

983
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 3: And she's like saying something kind of vague, but she's

984
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: implying that she does, or that everyone does. And then

985
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 3: later on, when she finds out that her boyfriend Colin

986
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 3: is the rat, she's like and I thought I was

987
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 3: the liar, And I'm like, what are we even talking

988
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 3: about here? What have you lied about?

989
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 5: And what?

990
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: I think that that's probably a reference to the fact

991
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: that she's been cheating.

992
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: On him, cheating, right, which also, again I do not

993
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 3: understand why she finds Billy alluring because she has no

994
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 3: idea that he's working undercover. I'm pretty sure she just

995
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 3: thinks that he used to be a cop in training

996
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 3: and then was let go from the force because of

997
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 3: this like assault and battery charge.

998
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 4: So, like, just.

999
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 3: Imagine that you're a psychiatrist and you have a client

1000
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 3: who seems to be a violent offender, you know, stuff

1001
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 3: like that, who doesn't seem to be able to process

1002
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: or regulate his emotions very well, and who screamed at

1003
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 3: you during one of your appointments, and then he shows

1004
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 3: up at your house randomly one night, and then you,

1005
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 3: as the psychiatrist, are like, yes, I should have sex

1006
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 3: with this person.

1007
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, by Caitlyn, he cares that she was a

1008
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: girl once.

1009
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, sorry I forgot you.

1010
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: See, she was left with no choice. I honestly didn't

1011
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: because this movie gets so like YadA YadA in the

1012
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: movie way. It didn't even connect to me. I was like, oh, yeah, Like,

1013
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: why would she assume that he had participated in the

1014
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: plot of The Departed? I guess I don't have that answer.

1015
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 3: Right, because the whole plot is happening outside of she

1016
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 3: does her purview, right, She's at work.

1017
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 5: We know that she has issues, we just like aren't

1018
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,439
Speaker 5: really supposed to care what they are, and the fact

1019
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 5: that Leo is kind of intuitive about that is what

1020
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 5: makes him so attractive.

1021
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 4: I did think it was interesting.

1022
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 5: So you have the elevator banter with Matt Damon and

1023
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 5: then they'd go on the date and he immediately.

1024
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 4: Like nags her.

1025
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's like, who says like I would want to

1026
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 5: go on a date with you, and then she gets

1027
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 5: like nervous and then tries to prove herself. So I

1028
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 5: did feel like that was at least like accurate to

1029
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 5: some of what Yeah, the situation would have been.

1030
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: Sure, it's not much, but it's like I am glad

1031
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: that she bails on him at the end, Like at

1032
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: least it wasn't like, all right, let's make this work,

1033
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: like no best of luck to her and maybe she

1034
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: should possibly change professions. There were elements that it's like

1035
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: they go out of the way to show us that

1036
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: he is not a good partner, and she eventually does

1037
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: leave him. I feel like you don't get that in

1038
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: most movies, and also in a lot of Martin Scarsese movies.

1039
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: But again, I think I'm just responding to just having

1040
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: watched Goodfellas, where ironically the female lead and Goodfellas does

1041
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: not leave her partner. But we understand why there are

1042
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: other Scorsese crime movies that do have a vested interest

1043
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: in the women that appear in this world and they're

1044
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, humanized, and even if it's not what you

1045
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: would do in this situation, you do understand. And like

1046
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: she's given narrative importance, and then in the case of Goodfellas,

1047
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: like whole sequences that she is narrating that are directly

1048
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: from her perspective, and you just like don't get anywhere

1049
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: near that. With Vera Fremige's character, we don't know anything

1050
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: about her, Susan, You're totally right where it's like we're

1051
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: told that she has a past that means maybe she

1052
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: would be more vulnerable towards pieces of shit like this,

1053
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: but we.

1054
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 5: Don't know why her character is there to serve the

1055
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 5: plot points of the men. Yeah, for sure, there's no

1056
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 5: other point about her as a character, and I think

1057
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 5: it's telling at the very end of the movie, like

1058
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 5: the final scene we learned the name of Frank Costello's

1059
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 5: girlfriend's when like Matt Damon calls up when when and

1060
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 5: the fact that we just there's this character and we

1061
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 5: have no idea what her name is even except for

1062
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 5: the point is to like announce Frank Costello's death to somebody.

1063
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like worse than if there was no

1064
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: character introduced there. It's like, how dare you tell me

1065
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: that this woman is important for one second.

1066
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 5: That's another one of my beefs with a lot of

1067
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 5: like mafia narratives, is there's no woman's voice in.

1068
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 4: It at all.

1069
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 5: True crime is often ascribed to women. It's like a

1070
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 5: woman's interest. But I think it's interesting that for some reason,

1071
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 5: organized crime mob movies don't fit into the category that

1072
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 5: we think of when you typically think of true crime.

1073
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 5: I love like stories about female criminals and like the

1074
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 5: actual impact that they've had. I talked to the daughter

1075
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 5: of a local leader in Newton Watertown area, and the

1076
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 5: book I think Leah Carrol's book Down the City where

1077
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 5: her mother was murdered by the mob, is also like

1078
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 5: a fascinating book if you're looking for like female voices

1079
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 5: in mob stories, because they are you.

1080
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 4: W and far between.

1081
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: I feel like almost in every single genre that is

1082
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: marketed at men, there were almost always people of all

1083
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: genders involved, but the stories don't reflect that.

1084
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 4: Right. Then you have the other thing you have in

1085
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 4: film noir.

1086
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 5: You have the batal where the woman is really powerful

1087
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,439
Speaker 5: and is like the source of all that goes wrong.

1088
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 5: She's really sexually charged. She gets you into a lot

1089
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 5: of trouble, you may die, but somehow you don't work

1090
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 5: ret being with her. So that's either the female character

1091
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 5: is like supremely evil and kind of like an emotionally

1092
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 5: manipulative mastermind, or she's just not in the story at all.

1093
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, put on the sidelines to go back to Madeline

1094
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 3: really quick. I just could not get over the scene

1095
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 3: where Billy shows up at her house and he's like, oh,

1096
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 3: sorry if this is inappropriate, and she's like, no, it's

1097
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: not inappropriate. You're not a client anymore. And it's like, yeah,

1098
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 3: he's still stalking you. He did show up at your

1099
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 3: house in the middle of the night. How does he

1100
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 3: even know where you live? Why is he showing up

1101
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 3: unannounced in the night in the rain? Like and then

1102
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 3: why did you have sex with him? After that?

1103
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: I think that this is we have to talk about

1104
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: it in a while, and I do need to rename it.

1105
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: But like let's bouschemy test this so many scenes in

1106
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: this movie. It only works because Leonardo DiCaprio is doing

1107
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: it and it's young DiCaprio who's going to turn him away.

1108
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: You're like, if you swap that out with just a guy,

1109
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: she would have called the police.

1110
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 5: The reason her character works is because this is a

1111
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 5: film about this charge relationship between like Leo and Matt Damon,

1112
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 5: who are like two young.

1113
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: Men they should just kiss and call it a day,

1114
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 1: like looking for.

1115
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 5: Their daddies in all the wrong places, and that she's

1116
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 5: really they don't know who they the one another is,

1117
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 5: or even the one another exists for a while, but

1118
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 5: she's a connecting point between those two characters. Yeah, and

1119
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 5: I think that's the only purpose that her character really serves.

1120
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's tricky because it's like the Jamie of

1121
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: ten years ago whose brain didn't well worked both better

1122
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: and worse depending on the situation. Sure, like would be

1123
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: like why aren't there any women cops in this which

1124
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: is like a valid question because the boss and police

1125
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: department has more women and more people of color than

1126
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: is reflected in this movie. Right, But it's not like

1127
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: I was like, where's my girl? Boss? Cop.

1128
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 4: Women are murdered in this movie.

1129
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: Well, women are murdered or mocked. I feel like outside

1130
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: of any other woman you see who is not Vera

1131
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: for Meiga. And this also feels like kind of class

1132
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: charged as well, where there's you know, men across the

1133
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: class spectrum that get at least some characterization in this movie.

1134
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: Definitely not true for women because we only have one

1135
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: and she went to Harvard. This is the only women

1136
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: we're really sort of like asked to consider or respect

1137
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: even though we know nothing about her. And most of

1138
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: the other women we see are either poor and there

1139
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: to talk to Matt Damon or DiCaprio for a scene

1140
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: to give them information, and they're kind of like dressing characters,

1141
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: or they're sex workers that Jack Nicholson is throwing something

1142
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: at and bossing around and treating poorly and so like

1143
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: that's it's kind of it. Or they're murdered in one

1144
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: kid like but it's like there's just so little Well.

1145
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 5: That's also like part of this movie is about class

1146
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 5: to some extent. Yeah, I think that's the way that

1147
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 5: you're supposed to sympathize with Matt Damon's character is that

1148
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 5: he grows up poor without a father, and he's like

1149
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 5: getting out of the southeast rough Southee neighborhood, right, and

1150
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 5: then Leo grows up confused because he's like code switching.

1151
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: Am I rich? Am I poor?

1152
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 4: What?

1153
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 2: Am I?

1154
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 5: Yeah? And then she's like went to Harvard, which is

1155
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 5: again another part of the Boston area story that they're

1156
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 5: trying to hit all the different kinds of Boston accents

1157
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 5: in this film, and I think they do come.

1158
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 4: Close to that.

1159
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: I like that Susan's like, let's bring it back to

1160
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: the accents. Let's talk about what matters.

1161
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 5: There's something in this movie that I think, like, oh,

1162
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 5: why would you watch this movie? I think it would

1163
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 5: be for like Boston accents.

1164
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: For sure, And to hear Rockton said, oh no, but

1165
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: I agree. I mean, I think the class stuff in

1166
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 1: this movie I feel like is one of the better

1167
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: handled or at least like considered things, because I don't know,

1168
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes it kind of gets lost in the weeds.

1169
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: But like with the Matt Damon character, I think it

1170
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: is like an interesting and like salient point that like

1171
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: Scorsese is equipped to talk about of, Like, you know,

1172
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: if you don't want to die in the class you

1173
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: were born in America, What are the moral compromises that

1174
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: you're going to be asked? And so like Matt, Damon

1175
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: is like trying to hold down his credibility where he's from,

1176
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: but also clearly wants, you know, like a nice apartment

1177
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: in the back bay, which you cannot achieve through moral channels.

1178
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: I've checked. It's not possible.

1179
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 3: You have to have ties to the mob to award it.

1180
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: But I do think, like from a class perspective, with

1181
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: our main characters, this movie has a little or to

1182
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: say than it does about like justice or sort of

1183
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: other things that's trying to tackle.

1184
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 5: At least.

1185
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit more about the

1186
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 3: male feelings motif.

1187
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: Because boy feelings, boy feelings, I.

1188
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 3: Wish the movie had explored it more thoughtfully. It like

1189
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 3: kind of touches on it, but it doesn't have anything

1190
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 3: that meaningful to say about it.

1191
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: Another waste of the therapist character, because you're like, we're

1192
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: set up for boy feelings and then we don't really

1193
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: get at least not through her, we don't really get

1194
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: boy feelings.

1195
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 5: Well, Damon does have a lot of complicated feelings about Fireman.

1196
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 3: You know that he has very homophobic feelings about them.

1197
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 4: Specifically, especially he has some of the public feelings.

1198
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 5: At the same time, he's like literally like has a

1199
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 5: very like subservient relationship to Jack Nicholson.

1200
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 4: There is this like male connection between two of them.

1201
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: That like very very so.

1202
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't really think there's a ton of

1203
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 5: insight to put on the language.

1204
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 4: The slurs that they use, because they really do overdo it.

1205
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 5: And that's not to deny Boston's history of racism at all,

1206
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 5: but I do think there is if you're searching for

1207
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 5: male feelings. Is like anguish about like firefighters that he

1208
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 5: addresses like primarily using bublic slurs, is like, okay, maybe

1209
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 5: there's some there to unpack.

1210
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 3: Which of the movie doesn't really bother doing. I think

1211
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 3: the closest it comes to, like trying to say anything

1212
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 3: is that it's implied that he's experiencing a rectile dysfunction.

1213
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 3: In one scene with Madeleine where she's like, do you

1214
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 3: want to talk about last night? Colin No response, Madeleine,

1215
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 3: It's all right. Guys tend to make too big a

1216
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 3: deal of it. Colin No response, Madeleine, It's actually quite common, Colin.

1217
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 3: I gotta go to work. And then he leaves, and

1218
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 3: then in a later scene with Alec Baldwin where he's

1219
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 3: talking to him about how it's like good for a

1220
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 3: man's image to be married, and Alec Baldwin's like, yeah,

1221
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 3: it lets people know that you have a dick that works,

1222
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 3: and Colin's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my dick.

1223
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 3: It totally works, and in fact it's working overtime.

1224
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: It's the workingest one.

1225
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 4: I talk about that dicks a lot.

1226
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 5: Like the first word that kinds out of Mark Wahlberg's

1227
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 5: mouth is about like a child's genitalia.

1228
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 4: It's bad. It's bad.

1229
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: It does feel like over the top playing into regional stereotypes.

1230
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: While it is also true that people like that do exist,

1231
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: but in the world of this movie, every single person

1232
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: is like my dick, my dick, my dick, throw a

1233
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: phone in a woman's head, and it.

1234
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 5: Seems like they're kind of enjoying themselves while they're saying

1235
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 5: these things. And that's what really gives me concern, especially

1236
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 5: one of the points of the movie where they show

1237
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 5: like an Asian cart tell, and the fact that the

1238
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 5: takeaway with the Asian cartel is that they're more violent, and.

1239
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 4: They keep going about, oh, this is America that really

1240
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 4: it was off.

1241
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not accurate either, No, historically, yeah, of weapons

1242
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 5: of choice, Yeah it's not.

1243
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, he's like, in America, having a gun, we

1244
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 3: don't feel like that, you know, adds inches to your dick.

1245
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 3: And it's like, that's absolutely what so many Americans think

1246
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 3: about gun ownership. So I don't know what he's talking about.

1247
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: And that's how everyone in the movie is acting like ridiculous.

1248
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 4: There's no accuracy to that.

1249
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 5: There's no point of the story that somehow, like the

1250
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 5: Asian gangsters are more violent than the horrific violence that

1251
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 5: we see in the film.

1252
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially because it's it's not even a cartel. They're

1253
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 3: like government workers in China, are they? I mean, who knows,

1254
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 3: that's what they'd say in the movie.

1255
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 5: But I definitely think that like Asian organized crime is

1256
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 5: part of like our criminal history in Boston. For sure,

1257
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 5: that's been completely overlooked. But it is not depicted accurately

1258
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 5: or sensitively here, right, or.

1259
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: Really at all, because it's just one scene and as usual,

1260
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: like Frank is dropping slurs and making broad statements about

1261
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: justice that are untrue, and like you don't even get

1262
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: the chance to really meet those characters who are just

1263
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: told things.

1264
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 5: About them, especially in a film with Mark Wahlberg, that

1265
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 5: makes me like easy, yeah, very very uneasy.

1266
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 4: Totally, And there is a real culture of saying these things.

1267
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 5: I listen to like hours of FBI recordings of this

1268
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 5: state police officer turned bookie like threatening death threats in

1269
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 5: this thing, and you hear these men basically talking like

1270
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:49,919
Speaker 5: they are just constant talk about their genitalia and slurs.

1271
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 4: It certainly happens, but right.

1272
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: This is just like not a subtle, thoughtful movie. I

1273
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 1: think it's maybe just my main feeling about it, but yeah,

1274
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean as far as the rectile dysfunction thing, I

1275
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: think first of all, that like it just felt like

1276
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: thrown in there in a way that like just to

1277
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: justify shame and anger he was clearly already feeling, and like,

1278
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: this movie is not handled to say anything intelligent about

1279
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: that very real problem. I at least appreciate that she

1280
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: was like being kind about it, which I think most

1281
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: people are.

1282
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 5: We have one emotional be and it's still about his

1283
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 5: deck exactly exactly.

1284
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this movie works as far as like

1285
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: a movie about like what Catholic guilt and shame can

1286
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: do to people across the class spectrum, but only if

1287
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: they're already Irish men.

1288
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 3: I just think that there was so much more to

1289
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 3: say about, like men repressing their emotion and how that

1290
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 3: manifests in the world, and men seeking validation from other

1291
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 3: men and how that manifests. You see glimpses of it,

1292
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 3: and you see suggestions of these things, but I wish

1293
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 3: that had been a far greater theme or something that

1294
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 3: the movie explores more thoughtfully, because it's all right there,

1295
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 3: they're like mentioning it. But yeah, He's just like, but

1296
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: we don't really actually have that much to say about it,

1297
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 3: except that all these people are going to end up

1298
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 3: dead because they can't talk about their feelings.

1299
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,560
Speaker 1: That's the wild thing. Yeah, it's like all the ingredients

1300
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: are present, but it doesn't quite come together into something

1301
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: as thoughtful as other stuff. Is there anything else you

1302
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,839
Speaker 1: wanted to touch on, Susan before we go into ratings?

1303
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 4: Okay?

1304
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 5: I think if you're looking to study up on Whitey Bulger,

1305
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 5: my favorite book is actually by David Boweri, who's a

1306
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 5: br reporter who wrote a book about Whitey Bulger that's online.

1307
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,799
Speaker 5: It's not one of the there's a lot of books.

1308
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 5: There's Black Mass which is fantastic. There's a book by

1309
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 5: Kevin Cullen and Chillie Murphy, but David Boweri's is my favorite,

1310
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 5: and no one knows about it. And if so, if

1311
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 5: you're looking for the history of the bullshit, I would

1312
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 5: say check it out.

1313
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: Cool.

1314
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 3: The movie, as we said, does not even come close

1315
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 3: to passing the Bechdel test because it would never think

1316
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 3: to put two women in the same room together.

1317
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: No, it really is like Vera Farmiga lives in a

1318
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 1: little space shuttle. She can travel between her apartment, Matt

1319
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,560
Speaker 1: Damon's apartment, and her office, but you're not going to

1320
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: see her anywhere other than in a room with a

1321
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: movie star. That's sort of where she tends to be.

1322
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: And then all the other women, I think that if

1323
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: you do occasionally get a name, they are being verbally

1324
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: abused by Jack Nicholson by and large usually Yes, yeah, yes.

1325
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,560
Speaker 3: As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the

1326
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,599
Speaker 3: movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based

1327
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 3: on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I don't

1328
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 3: think the rates very highly. I'm gonna give this movie

1329
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 3: one nipple. I generally like Martin Scorsese and his movies,

1330
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 3: and we love a Leonardo DiCaprio performance, although does this

1331
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 3: movie even count because he wet in this movie. I

1332
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 3: think he's wet from rainwater, but he is not in

1333
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 3: his clothes in a body of water, So like, what's

1334
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 3: the even point of the movie If you're not gonna

1335
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 3: put Leonardo DiCaprio in a body of water while he's

1336
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 3: fully clothed, it's not canon. I don't know why they

1337
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't put Leonardo DiCaprio in water anyway. One Nipple for

1338
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 3: its failure to not really say anything that thoughtful about

1339
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 3: male feelings, just sort of presenting it, but then like

1340
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,600
Speaker 3: not because the movie's too focused on the plot, like

1341
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 3: who's the guy, who's this guy? Who's that guy? Which

1342
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 3: is the guy that I'm looking for? And I don't

1343
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,600
Speaker 3: know that he's the guy yet, And it's just like

1344
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 3: so much of that, and at the expense of all

1345
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 3: of the character development. And it's especially noticeable for the

1346
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 3: one woman who's present in Madeline, who some vague things

1347
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 3: are relayed to us as far as her characterization, but

1348
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 3: none of them really makes sense, and her choices and

1349
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 3: the gut again, yes, smart women go after dipshit horrible men.

1350
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 3: It happened, but also like, why does she fuck both

1351
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 3: of these horrible men? I don't know why she's making

1352
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 3: the choices she's making. So one nipple and I will

1353
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 3: give it to Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic.

1354
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to go one as well. I get

1355
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 1: progressively more bummed out by this movie the more I

1356
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: see it. It definitely doesn't make sense as an Oscar

1357
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 1: winning Martin Scorsese movie to be But I like, I mean,

1358
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 1: Boston representation at at all time high. Do they say

1359
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: brocks it? Yes they do. But for a movie that,

1360
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: like you would think, because of who's making it, would

1361
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: have a lot to say about masculinity and justice, I

1362
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: don't think that this movie really has a lot to

1363
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: say about either. And so it's a B tier Martin

1364
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: Scorsese movie for me. And there's absolutely nothing about women.

1365
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 1: And there's an acknowledgement of discrimination across class lines, across

1366
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: race lines, and there's certainly a lot of it's like

1367
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: acknowledged that like homophobia and racism exists in this world,

1368
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have much to say about it outside

1369
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,639
Speaker 1: of that. There's a scene where Matt Damon tells Anthony

1370
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: Anderson like, you're a black guy in Boston, you're already fucked,

1371
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: which fair point, but also like that is leading up

1372
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 1: to nothing. It's just like saying it to acknowledge that

1373
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 1: racism exists in this city. I don't know. I just

1374
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,679
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of setup that doesn't go anywhere.

1375
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 5: We hit it you in the face with that, like

1376
01:16:58,560 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 5: again and again and again.

1377
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: And that's a very valid thing to want to talk about,

1378
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: but this movie doesn't want to talk about it, so

1379
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't understand. It's really messy and is more coppaganda

1380
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: e than I remembered and as a bummer. So I'm

1381
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: going to give it one nipple, and I'm going to

1382
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:19,600
Speaker 1: give it to sell machine maker, who edits all of

1383
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: Martin Scarsese's movies nice and also say that. I think

1384
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: that the biggest red flag about DiCaprio is that he's like,

1385
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: you don't have cats. I like that. I'm like, all right,

1386
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 1: oh yeah, what the fuck was that? He's not for me?

1387
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 3: What was that comment about.

1388
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: I think it's conflating cats with lonely women.

1389
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 4: Maybe he's allergic.

1390
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 3: Maybe that's giving him too much credit.

1391
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, Susan, what would you rate this movie.

1392
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 5: I'll give it to one, I'll give it okay, I'll

1393
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 5: give a nipple to like Jack Nicholson's outfits in this film,

1394
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 5: and he doesn't dress anything like Whitey Bulger, and I

1395
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 5: went to an auction of all Whitey Bulger, the things

1396
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 5: Whitey just like.

1397
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 4: War old sneakers.

1398
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 5: Jack Nicholson definitely shops at Violin's basement like the old

1399
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 5: Boston basement. It's not indicative of like the winter Hill

1400
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,679
Speaker 5: gang style, but it is indicative of like a mobster

1401
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:18,639
Speaker 5: at a certain point of time.

1402
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 4: And I do respect the film for that.

1403
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 5: The costumes are good, the costumes are good, accents better

1404
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 5: than most.

1405
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 4: But it would be hard for me to recommend this movie.

1406
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 4: It's just slur after slur.

1407
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 5: If you wanted to really dive into film history, I'd

1408
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 5: say certainly watch it, though. And the acting is great

1409
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 5: at points sure necessarily cohesively, you know.

1410
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like no person in this movie that you

1411
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 1: can't find a better performance of them somewhere else.

1412
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 3: Well, Susan, thank you so much for joining us and

1413
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 3: lending your expertise on Boston and New England area crime.

1414
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 3: Where can people follow you on social media? Plug whatever

1415
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:04,759
Speaker 3: you want to plug.

1416
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 5: Right now, I'm really focusing on the response to the

1417
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 5: reporting my book and which I reveal that members of

1418
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 5: law enforcement and the victims who are marijuana dealers, we're

1419
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,799
Speaker 5: part of the same criminal milieu, which maybe one reason

1420
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 5: why law enforcement didn't aggressively pursue this triple homicide, which

1421
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 5: had it been solved, could have prevented the Boston marathon bombing.

1422
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 4: And there's been no explanation about that, no answers. People

1423
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 4: in power have not been held to account.

1424
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,640
Speaker 5: So I'm taking notes on how those in power do

1425
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,680
Speaker 5: respond to the reporting in my book on my new

1426
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 5: substack all kind notes, but folks should go to my

1427
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 5: website Zalkind dot info. You can buy the book.

1428
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 4: You can follow me on Instagram and watch the docuseries. Yay, amazing.

1429
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. Our first crime

1430
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 1: reporter guest is my apps Pressure. Thanks for yea gum

1431
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: shooting through this with us, and you can find us

1432
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: all the normal places Instagram. You can follow our Patreon

1433
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: aka Matreon, where for five bucks a month you can

1434
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 1: get access to two additional episodes with Caitlin and myself

1435
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 1: and we're going on tours soon.

1436
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 3: That's right. You can buy tickets to our shows on

1437
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 3: our Shrek Tanner tour. So you will be seeing Leonardo

1438
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 3: DiCaprio in his clothes in water.

1439
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: It's going to be stopping, wet, stopping, so slippery. That's

1440
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 1: slippery as tour yet. So if you haven't got your

1441
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: tickets to that, there's still tickets available in most cities.

1442
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: Will be in London, Edinburgh, Manchester, Dublin and.

1443
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:51,799
Speaker 3: Offered for the Saint Audio Podcast Festival. And our tickets

1444
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 3: are on link tree slash Bechtel Cast.

1445
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 1: Yes, so go there.

1446
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 3: And with that we were shipping out to Boston. Let's

1447
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 3: now ship away from Boston.

1448
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:05,639
Speaker 5: Bye.

1449
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1450
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1451
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 3: by Mola Boord. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1452
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo and merch

1453
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1454
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 3: Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1455
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 3: Linktree slash Bechdel Cast