1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Now Pitching Pitching Ninja. Rob Friedman joining us right now 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: back on FT and happy opening day to you, Rob, 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: and also happy opening book to you. Right this is 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: the first book you're putting out there, so give us 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the goods on that and we'll mix it into the conversation. 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: I'm excited, absolutely, I'm excited too, like both for opening 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 2: day and Opening book day. So I wrote a book 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: about like how pitching has changed over the years, and 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: how pitchers are now engineered to be dominant and I 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: feel sorry for hitters. 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Well, let's go there right off the bat. And you 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: can also, of course tell us some of the pitching 13 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: that you're exciting you're excited to see this year, whether 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: it's rookies, new pitches, the whole deal. But tell us 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: more about that topic from the book. How much has 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: pitching development advanced in comparison to hitting development. 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: Well, like for pitching, it used to be either you 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: have it or don't. 19 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: We said you couldn't teach velocity, or you couldn't teach 20 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: someone how to spin a ball. It turns out you can, 21 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: and that's why you're seeing pictures throw a lot harder now. 22 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 2: It used to be through luck or you know, back 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: in the day they used to be farm strong. Now 24 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: they can be in the weight room. We used to 25 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: think that would make pictures too muscle bound, but it doesn't. 26 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: If you train them correctly, we can break down somebody's 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: mechanics improve them very quickly. We can do things like 28 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 2: use high speed cameras to watch how the pitches, how 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: the ball's coming off someone's fingers, and measure it and say, 30 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: if you just moved it a little bit over, we 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: can make this pitch even nastier. 32 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 3: So it's a lot of things that pictures. 33 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: I'm not saying necessary that the pitchers are even better today, 34 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: like they're not necessarily better athletes, but they have a 35 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: lot more at their disposal to help them train, and 36 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: maybe that some guys back in the day would have 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: been way better today if they pitched today because of 38 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: all the training. 39 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 4: One of the stories you actually have in your prelimb 40 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: to the book is about your son Jack and how 41 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 4: this like set you on the journey. He went from 42 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 4: seventy seven to ninety five and then he ended up 43 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 4: having labrum's issues. The first thing that's brought up when 44 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 4: I was in Tripa talking to young pitchers what does 45 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 4: it take to make the big leagues? And I said, 46 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 4: nobody wants to just make the big leagues. They want 47 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 4: to stay in the big leagues. So is all this 48 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 4: information and all this ability to spin it, to throw 49 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 4: it harder getting guys hurt? And is there more value 50 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 4: in getting there but not having a long career than 51 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 4: getting there and having an average career that's longer. 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great question. Unfortunately, to get 53 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: your foot in the door today, here's a reason why 54 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: people sit behind the backstop with radar guns. They do 55 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: it because that's how they judge initially, how you get in. 56 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that you constantly always want you're there, 57 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: have to throw as hard as you can. And as 58 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I think the trend now is 59 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 2: to throw many, many different pitches because it makes it 60 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: tougher for a hit or to hit if they don't 61 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: know what's coming. If you have eight different pitch types 62 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: and you can command them, that's as good as somebody 63 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: just can blow you away with one hundred and three 64 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: and maybe a little less stressful on your army. So 65 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 2: you're seeing guys like Paul's schemes to versify his his arsenal. 66 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: He doesn't top out at one oh two every game. 67 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: He's backed off it a little bit, but can keep 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: hitters off balance throwing them a bunch of different looks. 69 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: So I think you're seeing a lot of that to 70 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: help people stay around, but in order to get in 71 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: the door. The problem is if you don't light up 72 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: a radar gun and a coach takes or a scout 73 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: makes a bet on you, you're if you're wrong. If 74 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: that scout is wrong, it's on them. It's their judgment 75 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: that was wrong. If you lit up the radar gun 76 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: and they said this guy throws one oh two, he 77 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: got to draft them and you don't and the pitcher 78 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: doesn't succeed, then the scout did what he was supposed 79 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: to do kind of and the pitcher just didn't have 80 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: it or did it, you know, broke down. So it 81 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: is there's a little bit of a blame game going. 82 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: I think that goes on with analytics in general. But uh, 83 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: I think there's I would love to see it come 84 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: back to a little bit more gamesmanship. I have no 85 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: problem with that at all. 86 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 5: Rob In your book in earlier you just talked about 87 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 5: how pitching analytics are ahead and in your book, thank you. 88 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 5: I got a line in your book, so I'll be 89 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 5: expecting your royalties at some point. 90 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: Thank you. 91 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 5: But I said it, and I've been saying this for years, 92 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 5: that pitching analytics are so far ahead of pitchers, And 93 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 5: in your book it's kind of what I said, like 94 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 5: you can tell a guy and you can just slow 95 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 5: motion cameras, just move your finger or do this or 96 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 5: do that, and it changes everything about the way they 97 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 5: throw the ball and the way the ball comes out 98 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 5: of your hand. Is there any way for hitters to 99 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 5: catch up? Because I mentioned the trajet machine, But you know, 100 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 5: you talk to organizations, they don't love it. They don't 101 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 5: say it's the best thing in the world. Yeah, it's cool, 102 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 5: it's a cool gimmick. But how do hitters catch up 103 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 5: to what pitchers are doing? Because hitters don't have slow 104 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 5: motion cameras. Every swing is a little bit different, every 105 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 5: pitch is a little bit different. There's not a perfect swing, right, 106 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 5: So how to hit catch up to what pitchers are doing? 107 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 5: Because it doesn't seem like it's possible. 108 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: It's really hard because baseball's a weird sport. The offense 109 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: doesn't have the ball like the pitcher really is on 110 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: offense and the hitter's reacting. The hitters a counterpuncher. So 111 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: I think that's what makes it tough, is that if 112 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: I'm a pitcher, ideally I should be able to spin 113 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: the ball away I want, put it where I want, 114 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: throw it as hard as I want, and I know 115 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: the heat map of the hitter, so I can put 116 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: the ball exactly where that hitter's weak spot is. I 117 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: think the way for hitters to catch up Number one 118 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 2: traject does help in seeing a nasty pitch over and 119 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: over again, so you might be able to make that 120 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: pitch a little less nasty when you see it, So 121 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: that might help. But I think other things like potentially 122 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: AI and picking up pitch tipping or something like that, 123 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: if a hitter knows what's coming, he's got an advantage. 124 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: And if you can just like if there are guys 125 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: who tip, I think it would be very useful to 126 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: do things like that, doing your homework, looking at your 127 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: own scout report against you, even different bats. 128 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: For different pictures. 129 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: You could do stuff like that, but in the end, 130 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: pictures I think are always going to have somewhat of 131 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: an advantage. 132 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 4: Who's the pioneer of this. You mentioned a few people 133 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 4: early on in your book about Tom House, Nolan Ryan, 134 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 4: and not one of them individually, but how they all 135 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 4: got to get how they got together and helped each other, 136 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 4: going to Randy Johnson helping him, and then even you 137 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 4: mentioned later on in your book about like a Trevor 138 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 4: Bauer who has you know, kind of gotten a little 139 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 4: bit of backlash. But who do you feel like is 140 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 4: the pioneer of this development age? And then who do 141 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: you feel like is doing it the best right now? 142 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 2: So you daled it with Tom House. I think Tom 143 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: House was the first person to ask why. He saw 144 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: Nolan Ryan and he saw Sandy Kofax, and He's like, 145 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: these guys are just people. 146 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: Why are they doing what they do? How do they 147 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: go about this? 148 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: So he broke it down, built his own biomechanics lab 149 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: in his house. Cost him his marriage, he says, look 150 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: at pictures all the time and try to figure out 151 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 2: what does what. So he is really the start of 152 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: this whole thing. Guys like Kyle Body at drive Line 153 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: took it to the next level. I mean, he's got 154 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: an engineering background, so he started looking at it at 155 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: stuff from a engineering or computer programming sense. Step by step, 156 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: and you're right, Bauer took it into the clubhouse where 157 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: like him or not, and I understand. 158 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: Obviously the backlash, but. 159 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: He certainly did break down a lot of barriers, weighted balls, 160 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: high speed cameras, rap sodo, just training, biometrics and training 161 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: and all that. Like the game, there's a little bit 162 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: of debt ode to him is where the game is 163 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: today that pictures are now taking. For granted, someone like 164 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: Paul Skeens has really perfected. He's taken a lot from 165 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people. If you watch his warm up 166 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: throwing footballs that's a Tom House thing. He's got a 167 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: connection ball that's a Ron Wolforth type thing. So he's 168 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: got a lot of different drill that he does. 169 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: I think he has perfected. 170 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: He's also perfected the personality that goes along with it 171 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: because he doesn't rub people the wrong way. He's a 172 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: competitor that goes in, listens, synthesizes information, and goes out 173 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: and competes. And I think that's kind of, to me, 174 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: my perfect pitching model. There's no perfect, but he's kind 175 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: of where that goes. 176 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 4: Perfect pitching model is the one that stays healthy, has 177 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 4: success for twenty years and then he's the anomaly, not 178 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 4: the not the norm. We are seeing all of this, 179 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 4: all this technology. Every bullpen guy or every bullpen has 180 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 4: a guy that throws one hundred throws ninety nine miles 181 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 4: an hour. If you're not throwing ninety seven in high school, 182 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: blah blah blah. But why do we not ever reach 183 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: where Eradus Chatman was, why do we not ever every 184 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 4: like we're peeking out? Is there something in the future 185 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 4: that's going to get us to that one oh seven 186 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 4: one eight category? 187 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: Likely? 188 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: So, but I can't promise you they won't break down 189 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: if they do that, because as you know, as a competitor, 190 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: as an athlete, you know you're trying to be you 191 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: redline your body right, You're fighting through stuff. If you 192 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: see a number attached to you, you're going to try 193 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: to achieve it. 194 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 3: And beat it. 195 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 2: That is just what you do as a competitor and 196 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: an athlete. So you're always going to push your body 197 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: as far as it can go. No matter what that 198 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: number is, You're going to want to eke out a 199 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: little bit more so, I think you're always going to 200 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 2: run into that ceiling. The key is knowing your body 201 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: there may be technologies that can keep you healthier, understanding 202 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: that rest is important and recovery is important, monitoring that. 203 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 3: But will pitchers continue to break down? Yeah? 204 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: Probably until we like you'd have to tell what the 205 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: weak point was before it would break, and you know, 206 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: maybe like car monitoring systems, that warning light comes on. 207 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 2: You know, I think we have stuff that's being developed, 208 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 2: but that's going to be the main problem. 209 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 5: A guy who seems to be in a development crisis 210 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 5: is Roki Sazaki. What can he do? What tools does 211 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 5: he need to figure out to get to where people 212 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 5: thought he would be once he came over to the 213 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 5: major leagues? 214 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 3: You know he does. 215 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: He is a little bit more complicated mechanics than someone 216 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: like Yoshinobayamamoto, who is as streamlined as can be. I 217 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: also think some of it is almost overthinking his mechanics. 218 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: To me, at least, listening to every interview. Every time 219 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: he struggles, it seems to be, well, it was my 220 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: mechanics were off. 221 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: I did this wrong, I did that wrong. 222 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: Most pitchers don't lose command because of their mechanics. They're 223 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: losing command because of a focus type thing or not 224 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: understanding where their misses tend to be. It could be 225 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: a variety of different things. But I think if you 226 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: start feeling like you have to be at one hundred 227 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: percent mechanics wise and physical wise every game to throw strikes, 228 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: it sets up a spiral where all of a sudden 229 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: something goes wrong, and that goes wrong again and goes 230 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: wrong again. Think he's in a situation now where when 231 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: he starts throwing balls, he starts throwing pitches out of 232 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: the zone. It starts getting in his head and he 233 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: starts trying to make adjustments and he just can't do it. 234 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: Sometimes you do. Sometimes you have. 235 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: To figure out a way to compete through it, and 236 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: it's not always a mechanical thing, all right. 237 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 4: You quote tweeted one of the conversations that we had 238 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 4: about aces, Andy McColl and I were in we're in 239 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: cahoots on the fact that Yamamoto is not an ACE 240 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 4: yet yet, and visceral hate exploded on the internet. What 241 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 4: is your list of aces and what is your or 242 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 4: what is your criteria of an ace, because I think 243 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: people stopped listening to what the criteria of an ACE 244 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 4: was even you just brought in the picture of him 245 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 4: having a great postseason and one great season in the 246 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 4: big leagues. So what's your criteria for aces in the 247 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 4: big leagues. 248 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, and in fairness, I don't think for Yamamoto it's 249 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 2: one great season. You're talking about a legendary pitcher in 250 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: Japan who won three Solar More Awards and MVPs and 251 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: legendary low eras comes over to the States, had a 252 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 2: solid first season and then an excellent second season and 253 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: dominated in the postseason, pitching on one day's rest in 254 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: the World Series. 255 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 3: To me, and I think to most pitchers that. 256 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: Watch that competitiveness and stuff, they would say that as 257 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: an ace without a doubt. People were like I talked 258 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: to Ryan Dempster after that. He was like, oh my god, 259 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: that was what I love about the game. I've talked 260 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: to other guys like this is an ace. This is 261 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 2: an old school horse. So to me, that is that's 262 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: my criteria. It is you know it when you see it. 263 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 2: There has to be stats to back it up, but 264 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: it's it's being counted on in big situations for your 265 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 2: team to come through and carry that team and go 266 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: relatively deep into starts, or put your career on the 267 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 2: line like he did and come back on one Day's rest. 268 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: To me, that's a no doubter that he's an ace. 269 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: Paul Skins obviously, Logan Webb's an ace. You have a 270 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: lot of them throughout the league. Garrett Crochet is an ace. 271 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: It's guys that you know you can count on that 272 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: make me want to tune in, and they're proven themselves 273 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 2: over at least a full season, and you feel like 274 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: there's no reason they can't continue with that. 275 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 4: Who's next? 276 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: Then? 277 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 5: Who's next? 278 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 4: On the list? 279 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 5: If guys like Verlander, Scherzer, guys like that are starting 280 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 5: to get a little bit older, Kershaw's gone now, who's 281 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 5: the next wave behind scooball Schemes? I guess you could 282 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 5: put Web in there. 283 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: Who's next? 284 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 5: Who's the young guys that you've watched that you say 285 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 5: can be the next let's say three best in the 286 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 5: next ten years. 287 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. 288 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I've really liked what I've seen out of 289 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: I think Hunter Green is on the verge of do 290 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: you consider him an ace? I think that he is 291 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: a guy that I would if he has a strong 292 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: year this year, he's an ace. He's a guy that 293 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: I like watching pitch and he's you know, kind of 294 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: one of the next guys I can see in that category. 295 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: Bubba Chandler, a. 296 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: New guy I think is going to be very, very good. 297 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: I think Nolan McLain for the Mets is a guy 298 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: I can't stop watching because his stuff is made for 299 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: pitching Ninja, because it's just eye poppingly good, like twenty 300 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: inches here, twenty inches east west, throwing ninety nine and 301 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: a competitor. That's a guy I can see up there. 302 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: Chase Burns is another guy who I've loved since he 303 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: was in college, and I think he's got unhittable stuff 304 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: when he's on. 305 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: All right, Well, what about show Hey? A lot's always 306 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: asked about, like the one year where he didn't pitch 307 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 4: and he became an MVP just as a DH and 308 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 4: he launched his he launched his hitting to another level. 309 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 4: Show Hey when you watch him, and I think last 310 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 4: night he just had ten punchouts in like four innings. 311 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: It was ridiculous against the Angels. But there's that. But 312 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 4: do you think if he just p he could be 313 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 4: a cy Young Award winner or do you think he 314 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 4: just slightly is outside of your everybody's an ace category? 315 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: He has got what he's on, he's got who has 316 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: better stuff? Like legit throws over a hundred sweeper that's wicked, 317 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: splitter that can't be hit, constantly improving a tax the zone. 318 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: You see him come through in big moments like if 319 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: you want, if you want somebody on the bump in 320 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 2: a big moment, a competitor and somebody who's going to 321 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: dig deep and show you something that you've never seen before. 322 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: That's the guy that I would love to see out there. 323 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: So he meets my criteria other than the innings part. 324 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: Because you know, I'd like to see, you know, more 325 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: of that. 326 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: But I think he's absolutely a pitcher. He's absolutely pitch 327 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: for pitch as good as anybody in baseball. The question 328 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: is how much do you want him to pitch because 329 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: his hitting is so good? 330 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 4: All right, So we're making predictions. I think some people 331 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 4: have it. It's easy like Cy Young Awards, American League, 332 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 4: National League. I want to hear your top three finishers 333 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 4: in the in the Cy Young Award for the National 334 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: League and American League this season. 335 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, I've for the American League. 336 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: I've got to stay on the schoolbol train until school 337 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: ball shows signs of fading. I think that that would 338 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: be tough to back off of him. I would then go, 339 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: I mean Crochet also, he's he's on, he's so good, 340 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: So that's that's another guy that I would find hard 341 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: to back off of. 342 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 3: And then. 343 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: I mean Max Freed is always there. I can go 344 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: with Max Freed in the NL. I mean, Skeens is 345 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: just scratching the Skenes is just now like how many 346 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: years have you even pitched full time? So it's hard to 347 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: say anything negative about Paul Skeens's chances of winning another 348 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: cy Young So he would have to be number. 349 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 3: One on my list. Number two. 350 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I can see someone like I mean Christopher 351 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: Sanchez had a great year. I'm probably going Logan Web 352 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: maybe and then maybe a surprise. I mean, I would 353 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 2: love to see and this is more picking with my heart, 354 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: but I would love to see someone like Noelan McLain 355 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 2: have a solid season this year and really open some 356 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: eyes because his stuff is that good. His stuff is 357 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: as good as anybody in baseball, maybe better than anybody 358 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 2: in baseball. 359 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: And he'd been doing the two way thing, so now 360 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: he's just focusing on pitching, right, So you feel like 361 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: there's still more that he can unlock. This is his 362 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: first full season two. Feel like we've been talking about 363 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: him a lot, but you know, because of the WBC 364 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: in this strong debut last year, but this is his 365 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: first full ride. 366 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 3: Yep, and had a velo jump in the WBC. 367 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,239 Speaker 2: I mean he had what was mostly topping out at 368 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: ninety eight and he'd ninety nine point two. He told 369 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 2: me he's never hit one hundred at any level and 370 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to take credit for it. 371 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: If he does this year, well we'll give it to you. 372 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: And also we'll shout out the book on the way out. 373 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: So tell us you know you can get it wherever, right, 374 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: is that how books work these days? 375 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: Absolutely anywhere, Amazon, Barnes, and Noble. I'll even deliver you 376 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: on if you really want. 377 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: It that bad, well depending on where you live, but yes, 378 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: maybe at a ballpark. Unhittable is the name of the book. 379 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: Rob Freeman aka Pitching Ninjur. We love having you on. 380 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: Congrats again on the book. Happy opening day to you 381 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: and we'll catch up soon. 382 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 3: Thanks thanks for having me on.