1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:15,890 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,290 --> 00:00:21,090 Speaker 2: If you don't feel like you're getting enough Cautionary Tales, 3 00:00:21,170 --> 00:00:24,130 Speaker 2: I have some very good news. We've just launched the 4 00:00:24,170 --> 00:00:28,290 Speaker 2: Cautionary Club over on Patreon. We'll be dropping an extra 5 00:00:28,410 --> 00:00:31,890 Speaker 2: Cautionary Tales episode each month, a bonus interview, and a 6 00:00:31,930 --> 00:00:35,690 Speaker 2: newsletter chock full of behind the scenes tidbits and anything 7 00:00:35,730 --> 00:00:38,370 Speaker 2: else we dug up in our research. We would love 8 00:00:38,410 --> 00:00:41,530 Speaker 2: to see you there. Head to patreon dot com slash 9 00:00:41,570 --> 00:00:45,890 Speaker 2: Cautionary Club to find out more. That's patreon dot com 10 00:00:45,930 --> 00:00:53,650 Speaker 2: slash Cautionary Club. In one wing of Somerset House, one 11 00:00:53,690 --> 00:00:59,410 Speaker 2: of central London's grandest palaces, the court Old Gallery displays 12 00:00:59,530 --> 00:01:04,090 Speaker 2: a selection of its much envied collection of drawings and paintings. 13 00:01:05,330 --> 00:01:09,850 Speaker 2: It's a haven for connoisseurs of the fine arts, but 14 00:01:10,410 --> 00:01:14,970 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight, the museum's curator was the receiver 15 00:01:15,210 --> 00:01:20,530 Speaker 2: of an unsettling phone call. I imagine it may have sounded 16 00:01:21,170 --> 00:01:23,850 Speaker 2: something like this, are you speaking? 17 00:01:23,890 --> 00:01:24,210 Speaker 1: Please? 18 00:01:24,970 --> 00:01:27,130 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who I am. I'm a friend of 19 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:29,130 Speaker 2: the gallery and you need to know you've been had? 20 00:01:30,130 --> 00:01:33,410 Speaker 1: What do you mean? Who is this someone. 21 00:01:33,170 --> 00:01:36,130 Speaker 2: Who knows the truth? Now? Listen, there are eleven pieces 22 00:01:36,130 --> 00:01:37,650 Speaker 2: in your collection that were faked? 23 00:01:38,650 --> 00:01:39,970 Speaker 1: Faked? Who are you? 24 00:01:40,650 --> 00:01:44,290 Speaker 2: Don't waste time? Have you got pen and paper? Good? Now? Listen. 25 00:01:45,010 --> 00:01:48,410 Speaker 2: The Virgin and Child by Michael Angelo isn't by Michael Angelo. 26 00:01:48,770 --> 00:01:53,130 Speaker 2: It's a forgery. What you heard me? The Study by 27 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:56,690 Speaker 2: Van Dyke that's a forgery too. The Tepelo drawing of 28 00:01:56,690 --> 00:02:00,490 Speaker 2: a pagan Idol, the Venetian Scene by Guardi both fake? 29 00:02:00,570 --> 00:02:03,010 Speaker 2: Are you writing this down? There are seven others. I'm 30 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:05,610 Speaker 2: not going to stay on this line all day. I'm writing. 31 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:08,290 Speaker 2: But how did so many fakers manage to get so 32 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:13,330 Speaker 2: many different pieces into our collection? So many fakers? Don't 33 00:02:13,330 --> 00:02:18,450 Speaker 2: you get it? They're all by one man, Eric Heborn, 34 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:24,970 Speaker 2: sake to all of them. I'm Tim Harford, and you're 35 00:02:25,050 --> 00:02:55,530 Speaker 2: listening to cautionary tales. In the nineteen fifties, the Royal 36 00:02:55,650 --> 00:03:00,010 Speaker 2: Academy of Art in London awarded a prestigious prize to 37 00:03:00,090 --> 00:03:05,130 Speaker 2: a young student named Eric Heborn. The choice of Heborn 38 00:03:05,290 --> 00:03:10,330 Speaker 2: was slightly surprising. He was a gifted draftsman, but drawing 39 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:15,290 Speaker 2: was an unfashionable business. Art was all about high concepts, 40 00:03:15,370 --> 00:03:20,890 Speaker 2: not realistic depictions. How come a mere draftsman won the prize? 41 00:03:21,330 --> 00:03:26,890 Speaker 2: Maybe there's a story behind it fine. Here's a story. 42 00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:31,370 Speaker 2: Once upon a time there was a porter who worked 43 00:03:31,370 --> 00:03:34,410 Speaker 2: at the Royal Academy who had a habit of drinking 44 00:03:34,450 --> 00:03:37,570 Speaker 2: more than was good for him. He'd find a quiet 45 00:03:37,610 --> 00:03:41,170 Speaker 2: spot in the basement and sleep it off, cleverly concealing 46 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:44,890 Speaker 2: himself behind a makeshift screen of pictures that were being 47 00:03:44,930 --> 00:03:50,210 Speaker 2: stored down there. One of those pictures Leonardo da Vinci's 48 00:03:50,690 --> 00:03:55,850 Speaker 2: only surviving large drawing, a sketch known as the Burlington 49 00:03:56,010 --> 00:04:00,970 Speaker 2: House cartoon. Burlington House being the headquarters of the Royal Academy, 50 00:04:01,730 --> 00:04:04,970 Speaker 2: in the basement of which the porter liked to sleep, 51 00:04:05,770 --> 00:04:09,410 Speaker 2: and one day this sozzled fellow propped the hinch she 52 00:04:09,570 --> 00:04:16,130 Speaker 2: drawing up against a hot steam radiator. Unfortunately, the radiator 53 00:04:16,210 --> 00:04:20,130 Speaker 2: was leaking, and even more unfortunately, the glue that da 54 00:04:20,210 --> 00:04:23,530 Speaker 2: Vinci had used to fix his chalk was far from 55 00:04:23,610 --> 00:04:29,250 Speaker 2: steam proof. In the morning, the picture had been thoroughly steamed, 56 00:04:30,050 --> 00:04:33,330 Speaker 2: and most of the chalk and charcoal had come loose 57 00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:37,130 Speaker 2: and slid to the bottom of the picture. Only the 58 00:04:37,170 --> 00:04:43,650 Speaker 2: faintest outline remained. The porter, in a panic, summoned the 59 00:04:43,690 --> 00:04:47,130 Speaker 2: President of the Royal Academy, who summoned the keeper of 60 00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:51,330 Speaker 2: pictures who summoned the chief restorer of the National Gallery, 61 00:04:52,090 --> 00:04:57,050 Speaker 2: who announced that the picture couldn't be restored, it could 62 00:04:57,050 --> 00:05:01,570 Speaker 2: only be redrawn, at which point they sent for the 63 00:05:01,610 --> 00:05:09,010 Speaker 2: best draftsman in the place, a student, Eric Heborn. Hebor 64 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:14,010 Speaker 2: wielded the chalk and charcoal in a flawless recreation of 65 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:20,410 Speaker 2: the lost original, or so he claimed decades later in 66 00:05:20,490 --> 00:05:24,050 Speaker 2: a drunk and off the record conversation with a journalist. 67 00:05:25,170 --> 00:05:29,210 Speaker 2: Why else, boasted Heborn? Do you think the Royal Academy 68 00:05:29,530 --> 00:05:32,810 Speaker 2: then gave one of their grandest prizes to me an 69 00:05:32,930 --> 00:05:37,850 Speaker 2: unfashionable draftsman? And isn't it curious that they sold the 70 00:05:37,930 --> 00:05:41,730 Speaker 2: drawing soon afterwards and spent some of the money on 71 00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:50,530 Speaker 2: upgrading their radiators. It's an astonishing story and very hard 72 00:05:50,610 --> 00:05:54,850 Speaker 2: to check. The drawing was indeed sold and went to 73 00:05:54,930 --> 00:05:59,410 Speaker 2: the National Gallery. But one day a man walked into 74 00:05:59,410 --> 00:06:03,890 Speaker 2: the National Gallery wearing a long coat, paused in front 75 00:06:03,890 --> 00:06:08,770 Speaker 2: of the drawing, standing about six feet away, and then 76 00:06:09,490 --> 00:06:13,930 Speaker 2: pulled out a shotgun and blasted into the heart of 77 00:06:13,970 --> 00:06:18,170 Speaker 2: the artwork. The man was arrested and found to be 78 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:22,090 Speaker 2: suffering from a mental illness. The National Gallery had the 79 00:06:22,170 --> 00:06:27,850 Speaker 2: drawing restored with tiny fragments of paper being painstakingly glued 80 00:06:27,890 --> 00:06:34,090 Speaker 2: back together, But that restoration would have concealed Heborn's handiwork 81 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:40,010 Speaker 2: if Heborn ever touched the cartoon, which is an open question. 82 00:06:41,450 --> 00:06:44,890 Speaker 2: The Royal Academy is very firm about its answer to 83 00:06:44,930 --> 00:06:50,210 Speaker 2: that question. When Heborn's jaw dropping story was published, they 84 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:55,770 Speaker 2: responded that they were astonished that anyone could fall for 85 00:06:55,930 --> 00:07:00,290 Speaker 2: such an unlikely story from someone who made a living 86 00:07:00,410 --> 00:07:05,370 Speaker 2: out of being a fake. It's true Heborn made his 87 00:07:05,490 --> 00:07:09,090 Speaker 2: living out of being a fake. After he graduated from 88 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:13,290 Speaker 2: the Royal Academy, he moved to Rome and worked both 89 00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:18,410 Speaker 2: as an art dealer and what one might you phemistically 90 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:26,130 Speaker 2: called a picture restorer. Hid clean old pictures and retouched them, 91 00:07:26,210 --> 00:07:30,210 Speaker 2: and before long he was doing much more than that. 92 00:07:31,490 --> 00:07:36,330 Speaker 2: Add a balloon floating over an undistinguished landscape, and you 93 00:07:36,410 --> 00:07:39,850 Speaker 2: have what appears to be an important record of the 94 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:45,050 Speaker 2: early steps of aviation and a much more expensive painting. 95 00:07:46,170 --> 00:07:49,810 Speaker 2: Or maybe the fashion was for poppies. They were easily 96 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:52,850 Speaker 2: added and made to look as though they'd been part 97 00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:57,090 Speaker 2: of the original, Or, as Hebborn himself said, a cat 98 00:07:57,210 --> 00:08:01,690 Speaker 2: added to the foreground guaranteed the sale of the dullest landscape. 99 00:08:02,210 --> 00:08:04,490 Speaker 1: Cats. Everyone likes cats. 100 00:08:05,290 --> 00:08:08,530 Speaker 2: Some things don't change, and maybe there's little harm in 101 00:08:08,650 --> 00:08:13,930 Speaker 2: adding a cat to an old picture nobody wanted. Soon enough, 102 00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:18,730 Speaker 2: Heborn was being asked by dealers in the know to 103 00:08:18,770 --> 00:08:25,850 Speaker 2: restore blank sheets of paper or to find lost preparatory 104 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:32,210 Speaker 2: sketches by old masters. Some of these discoveries were sold 105 00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:35,170 Speaker 2: to other dealers, some of whom knew what he was 106 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:39,090 Speaker 2: up to, and others who did not. He claims to 107 00:08:39,170 --> 00:08:44,450 Speaker 2: have created more than a thousand forgeries. Some art historians 108 00:08:44,930 --> 00:08:49,130 Speaker 2: I think he made a lot more than that. Here's 109 00:08:49,250 --> 00:08:54,330 Speaker 2: another story, again told by Heborn years after the fact. 110 00:08:54,770 --> 00:09:00,250 Speaker 2: Heborn acquired a drawing of Roman ruins supposedly sketched by 111 00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:04,690 Speaker 2: the Dutch master Jan Breugeli Elder sometime around the year 112 00:09:04,730 --> 00:09:09,210 Speaker 2: sixteen hundred. It was good value, just forty pounds in 113 00:09:09,290 --> 00:09:13,570 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, about one thousand dollars in today's money. 114 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:16,850 Speaker 1: But was it really by Breugel? 115 00:09:17,850 --> 00:09:21,970 Speaker 2: The frame said so, with the impremature of a respected 116 00:09:22,090 --> 00:09:26,890 Speaker 2: London dealer. It had Breugel's signature on it. The paper 117 00:09:26,970 --> 00:09:30,410 Speaker 2: was old. Heborn knew a lot about paper as a 118 00:09:30,450 --> 00:09:33,930 Speaker 2: dealer in old drawings. He had to, there were so 119 00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:39,210 Speaker 2: many fakes around, after all. But the drawing itself didn't 120 00:09:39,290 --> 00:09:44,490 Speaker 2: seem right to Heborn. It was too careful, the lines 121 00:09:44,650 --> 00:09:49,530 Speaker 2: drawn too slowly. This is not a Brougel, Heborn said 122 00:09:49,530 --> 00:09:54,650 Speaker 2: to himself. This is a copy. Heborn supposed that some 123 00:09:54,930 --> 00:10:01,210 Speaker 2: forgotten engraver three centuries or more ago had painstakingly copied 124 00:10:01,250 --> 00:10:05,530 Speaker 2: Breugel's original. As the first step in making and engraving 125 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:11,690 Speaker 2: the original itself had been lost, Heborn decided to find 126 00:10:11,730 --> 00:10:17,210 Speaker 2: it again. In a manner of speaking, Heborn turned over 127 00:10:17,250 --> 00:10:21,210 Speaker 2: the frame and steamed off the stiff sheet of brown 128 00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:25,690 Speaker 2: backing paper, setting it to one side. Then he teased 129 00:10:25,730 --> 00:10:30,610 Speaker 2: out the rusty nails, setting those aside too, Each one 130 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:35,810 Speaker 2: would eventually nestle back in precisely the right hole. Finally, 131 00:10:36,370 --> 00:10:39,050 Speaker 2: he taped the old drawing to the side of his 132 00:10:39,170 --> 00:10:45,410 Speaker 2: drawing board. Then prepared his materials. A blank page cut 133 00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:49,010 Speaker 2: out of a sixteenth century book, carefully treated with a 134 00:10:49,050 --> 00:10:54,330 Speaker 2: starch solution to control its absorbency, an eighteenth century paint box, 135 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:58,530 Speaker 2: many of the paints still perfectly good, A glass of 136 00:10:58,610 --> 00:11:03,730 Speaker 2: brandy to steady the nerves, and moving precisely but swiftly, 137 00:11:04,090 --> 00:11:09,290 Speaker 2: he made his own, more vigorous copy. Very nice, look 138 00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:10,570 Speaker 2: more like a Brogel. 139 00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:11,730 Speaker 1: Now. 140 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:14,650 Speaker 2: He sold it on again, and it ended up in 141 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:20,690 Speaker 2: the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. Heborn recalled 142 00:11:20,730 --> 00:11:24,210 Speaker 2: three decades later, I tore up the thing I copied. 143 00:11:24,890 --> 00:11:26,250 Speaker 1: I flushed it down the laboratory. 144 00:11:26,890 --> 00:11:29,450 Speaker 2: I rather wish I hadn't, because it would be nice 145 00:11:29,530 --> 00:11:34,250 Speaker 2: now to compare. You know, perhaps I destroyed an original Brougel. 146 00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:35,450 Speaker 1: I hope not. 147 00:11:37,210 --> 00:11:41,010 Speaker 2: Heborn announced this forgery to the world in his nineteen 148 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:46,450 Speaker 2: ninety one autobiography Drawn to Trouble, and joked that the 149 00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:51,930 Speaker 2: Metropolitan Museum were very happy with his picture. Perhaps so, 150 00:11:52,530 --> 00:11:55,490 Speaker 2: but they were not happy with the tale Eric Heborn 151 00:11:55,650 --> 00:11:59,050 Speaker 2: told about that picture. They told the New York Times, 152 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:03,010 Speaker 2: we don't believe it's a forgery, and we believe that 153 00:12:03,050 --> 00:12:06,530 Speaker 2: the story told by mister Heborn in this book is 154 00:12:06,610 --> 00:12:14,810 Speaker 2: not true. What is the fake, the drawing or the story? 155 00:12:15,850 --> 00:12:28,650 Speaker 2: Cautionary Tales will be back after the break. In twenty seventeen, 156 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:32,610 Speaker 2: the journalist Samantha Cole introduced the world to a new 157 00:12:32,730 --> 00:12:38,610 Speaker 2: technology with the following sentence. There's a video of Galgadott 158 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:44,090 Speaker 2: having sex with her stepbrother on the Internet. The video was, 159 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:48,970 Speaker 2: of course a deep fake, a video swapping the face 160 00:12:49,050 --> 00:12:53,050 Speaker 2: of wonder Woman onto a porn performer's body, created using 161 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:58,530 Speaker 2: a particular form of artificial intelligence called deep learning. A 162 00:12:58,610 --> 00:13:03,090 Speaker 2: year earlier, post truth was named word of the Year 163 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:06,690 Speaker 2: by Oxford Dictionaries, and it was a fertile time for 164 00:13:06,770 --> 00:13:11,170 Speaker 2: anxiety about people finding new ways to lie to us? 165 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:14,970 Speaker 2: What would happen if someone created a deep fake of 166 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:20,890 Speaker 2: Donald Trump declaring war on China. In the following years, 167 00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:26,090 Speaker 2: such fears seemed overblown. A few deep fakes made a splash. 168 00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:30,570 Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen. The Flemish Socialist Party posted a fake 169 00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:35,010 Speaker 2: video appearing to show Donald Trump declaring, as you know, 170 00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:38,890 Speaker 2: I had the balls to withdraw from the Paris Climate Agreement, 171 00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:44,170 Speaker 2: and so should you. Then there was the audio deep fake, 172 00:13:44,410 --> 00:13:48,810 Speaker 2: released two days before the Slovakian election in September twenty 173 00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:53,970 Speaker 2: twenty three. The fake audio was widely shared online and 174 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:58,450 Speaker 2: seemed to portray the opposition leader conniving to rig the vote. 175 00:13:58,970 --> 00:14:02,250 Speaker 2: He had been leading in late polls, but lost the 176 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:08,130 Speaker 2: election to a pro Russian rival. Despite such warning shots, 177 00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:14,050 Speaker 2: deep fake technology is still mostly used for non consensual pornography. 178 00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:18,970 Speaker 2: Part of the reason is that creating deep fakes was hard, 179 00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:22,850 Speaker 2: and there are easier ways to lie with video. You could, 180 00:14:23,490 --> 00:14:29,410 Speaker 2: for example, misdescribe an existing video. In December twenty twenty 181 00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:34,450 Speaker 2: three videos circulated on social media claiming to show Hamas 182 00:14:34,730 --> 00:14:38,170 Speaker 2: executing people by throwing them off the roof of a 183 00:14:38,170 --> 00:14:43,730 Speaker 2: building in Gaza. The videos are genuine, but the atrocity 184 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:48,130 Speaker 2: took place in Iraq in twenty fifteen, and the murderers 185 00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:49,730 Speaker 2: were Islamic State. 186 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:51,570 Speaker 1: Not Hamas. 187 00:14:52,330 --> 00:14:57,170 Speaker 2: It's common for real videos and pictures to circulate online 188 00:14:57,410 --> 00:15:02,810 Speaker 2: with deceptive labels. Other simple tricks achieve much the same effect. 189 00:15:03,850 --> 00:15:07,250 Speaker 2: Let's say it's the twenty sixteen election and you want 190 00:15:07,250 --> 00:15:10,970 Speaker 2: to create a joke video of Dwayne the Rock Johnson 191 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:16,210 Speaker 2: singing an abusive song to presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and 192 00:15:16,410 --> 00:15:21,490 Speaker 2: Kerr reaction. No big deal, just for the laughs. It's easy. 193 00:15:21,730 --> 00:15:24,490 Speaker 2: We have footage of the Rock singing an abusive song 194 00:15:24,570 --> 00:15:28,850 Speaker 2: about another wrestler, we have footage of Hillary Clinton looking 195 00:15:28,890 --> 00:15:32,890 Speaker 2: a bit awkward. Spliced them together, as one troll did, 196 00:15:33,450 --> 00:15:37,050 Speaker 2: and you have a crude prank depicting a campaign trail 197 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:41,730 Speaker 2: event that never happened. A shallow fake, if you like. 198 00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:50,570 Speaker 2: In his book, about deep fakes. Trust no one. The 199 00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:56,490 Speaker 2: journalist Michael Grothaus interviewed the troll in question, who realized 200 00:15:56,930 --> 00:16:01,970 Speaker 2: something unsettling once his shallow fake video went viral on 201 00:16:02,050 --> 00:16:08,930 Speaker 2: Facebook and the comments rolled in. People had missed the joke. Wait, 202 00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:14,450 Speaker 2: the troll told Groathaus, these dumbshits think this is real. 203 00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:16,210 Speaker 1: They did. 204 00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:24,010 Speaker 2: Indeed, they and we are busy. They and we are distracted. 205 00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:28,330 Speaker 2: We instinctively feel that some stuff is too good to check, 206 00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:33,970 Speaker 2: and so we'll all accept lies that really should give 207 00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:40,410 Speaker 2: us pause. The Slovakian case should be a warning. With 208 00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:44,170 Speaker 2: high stakes elections taking place across the world in twenty 209 00:16:44,250 --> 00:16:48,650 Speaker 2: twenty four, The experts I've spoken to are deeply concerned 210 00:16:49,330 --> 00:16:52,530 Speaker 2: that it's only a matter of time before a clever, 211 00:16:53,170 --> 00:16:59,450 Speaker 2: well timed piece of disinformation has a calamitous impact, deciding 212 00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:03,930 Speaker 2: the result of a close run election. It might not 213 00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:08,050 Speaker 2: involve a deep fake or another AI generated visual image, 214 00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:13,330 Speaker 2: then again, when it might. The technology is getting better. 215 00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:18,650 Speaker 2: It's already straightforward to create a convincing deep fake, or 216 00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:23,090 Speaker 2: to use generative AI to fabricate a photorealistic scene that 217 00:17:23,330 --> 00:17:28,210 Speaker 2: never happened, barely more difficult than editing or redescribing an 218 00:17:28,210 --> 00:17:32,450 Speaker 2: existing video and visual images have always been more eye 219 00:17:32,490 --> 00:17:38,370 Speaker 2: catching and emotionally compelling than mere text. So have our 220 00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:42,810 Speaker 2: fears about deep fakes really been misguided? Or have they 221 00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:44,650 Speaker 2: merely been premature? 222 00:17:45,890 --> 00:17:46,650 Speaker 1: Or perhaps what. 223 00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:51,090 Speaker 2: Should really worry us about deep fakes is something else, entirely, 224 00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:56,650 Speaker 2: something exemplified by the tricks to Eric Heborn, who not 225 00:17:56,770 --> 00:18:00,690 Speaker 2: only created fakes which pass for the real thing, but 226 00:18:00,850 --> 00:18:08,730 Speaker 2: repeatedly claimed that the real thing was a fake. Which 227 00:18:08,770 --> 00:18:13,330 Speaker 2: is the fake the mets drawing by Jan Breugel or 228 00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:18,570 Speaker 2: Eric Heborn's story about having faked it. Eric Heborn is 229 00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:22,810 Speaker 2: very firm about his answer to that question, who cares? 230 00:18:23,850 --> 00:18:29,250 Speaker 2: In his sensational autobiography Full of Mischief, Heborn argues that 231 00:18:29,290 --> 00:18:31,970 Speaker 2: there's no such thing as a fake work of art, 232 00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:37,370 Speaker 2: just a mistaken attribution. I don't like the word fake 233 00:18:37,770 --> 00:18:41,810 Speaker 2: applied to perfectly genuine drawings, he explained in a BBC 234 00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:47,090 Speaker 2: documentary released the same year as his autobiography nineteen ninety one. 235 00:18:48,090 --> 00:18:52,410 Speaker 2: In both the book and the documentary, Heborn cheekly blames 236 00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:57,970 Speaker 2: unscrupulous dealers for misattributing his work and in competent experts 237 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:01,810 Speaker 2: for missing the truth. Maybe it was a real Broigle 238 00:19:01,930 --> 00:19:04,850 Speaker 2: that he flushed down the loo. Maybe it was a copy, 239 00:19:05,570 --> 00:19:08,850 Speaker 2: Or maybe Heborn made up the entire story to amuse 240 00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:12,810 Speaker 2: him by trolling the Met Maybe the picture in the 241 00:19:12,850 --> 00:19:16,770 Speaker 2: Mets collection really was painted by Yan brougl the elder, 242 00:19:16,930 --> 00:19:21,250 Speaker 2: as they originally thought, or Yan Brougle the younger, as 243 00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:26,730 Speaker 2: they later decided, or the current attribution circle of Yan Breugel. 244 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:32,090 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, says Heborn. It's a beautiful drawing whoever 245 00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:36,410 Speaker 2: drew it, enjoy it for what it is, and don't 246 00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:41,450 Speaker 2: worry about what it Isn't Art is about creating beautiful things, 247 00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:47,090 Speaker 2: isn't it? And that is what Heborn did. The BBC 248 00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:51,410 Speaker 2: interviewer challenged him about this. If he was just making 249 00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:55,970 Speaker 2: beautiful drawings rather than fakes, why did he put the 250 00:19:56,010 --> 00:20:01,490 Speaker 2: stamps of famous historical art collectors on the pictures? Well 251 00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:06,410 Speaker 2: they look nice for one thing, But weren't they designed 252 00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:09,410 Speaker 2: to convince the experts that the pictures were j you in, 253 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:13,690 Speaker 2: I don't think so. If they were experts, they would 254 00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:16,730 Speaker 2: have seen that they were false collector's marks. Some of 255 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:20,130 Speaker 2: them were done freehand in watercolor, rather than being stamped. 256 00:20:20,370 --> 00:20:23,370 Speaker 2: They did them in a very amateurish way, they shouldn't 257 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:29,170 Speaker 2: have been fooled at all, or, as a later faker said, wait, 258 00:20:30,250 --> 00:20:35,610 Speaker 2: these dumb shits think this is real. But beneath the 259 00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:41,650 Speaker 2: smile when the winking stories, Heborn seems vulnerable on camera, 260 00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:48,130 Speaker 2: he speaks softly, slurring his esses. Maybe he's had a 261 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:51,970 Speaker 2: bit too much to drink. He certainly drank far too much. 262 00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:55,930 Speaker 2: His friends worried about that, and all his tricks and 263 00:20:56,050 --> 00:21:01,810 Speaker 2: adventures start to seem less fun as Heborn quietly tells 264 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:06,450 Speaker 2: the story of his life to the camera that his overworked, 265 00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:11,250 Speaker 2: stressed mother used to take her revenge out on him. 266 00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:15,930 Speaker 2: At school, He'd make drawing charcoal out of matches and 267 00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:20,050 Speaker 2: was accused of arson by the head master, who caned him. 268 00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:23,170 Speaker 2: So the eight year old Eric decided he'd do the 269 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:26,210 Speaker 2: deed for which had been punished and set fire to 270 00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:26,730 Speaker 2: the school. 271 00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:30,130 Speaker 1: This is the voice of Eric. 272 00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:35,170 Speaker 2: Heborn speaking on the nineteen ninety one BBC documentary Eric 273 00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:38,290 Speaker 2: Heborn Portrait of a Master Forger. 274 00:21:39,770 --> 00:21:41,930 Speaker 3: I got frightened and I thought I'd better tell the 275 00:21:41,970 --> 00:21:46,250 Speaker 3: head master of mister Percy what had happened. So I 276 00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:51,410 Speaker 3: poked my smoky face round his door and said to 277 00:21:51,530 --> 00:21:54,490 Speaker 3: him because I couldn't. I didn't know how to put 278 00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:57,050 Speaker 3: it down. Mean plio, I've set light to the school, 279 00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:59,650 Speaker 3: so I recited a little poem we'd learned. 280 00:22:00,170 --> 00:22:03,090 Speaker 1: They went fire fire. 281 00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:10,450 Speaker 3: Missus Dyer, Where where Missus Claire? That of smoke? Game injury? 282 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:13,530 Speaker 3: His study? And I found myself in a juvenile court 283 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:14,570 Speaker 3: being charged. 284 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:19,490 Speaker 2: He was sent to a youth detention center at the 285 00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:23,690 Speaker 2: age of eight. It's hard not to feel sympathy for 286 00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:28,570 Speaker 2: the old rogue. And there is something very heaborn Esque 287 00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:33,370 Speaker 2: about being punished first, then committing the crime after the fact. 288 00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:39,610 Speaker 2: Justice turned upside down, truth turned back to front, history 289 00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:46,690 Speaker 2: turned inside out. That's Eric heborn, and perhaps that's the 290 00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:54,410 Speaker 2: computer generated world that's coming for us. If I'm worried 291 00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:58,650 Speaker 2: about all the stupid things that people will believe, I'm 292 00:22:58,770 --> 00:23:02,330 Speaker 2: even more worried about all the true things that people 293 00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:07,690 Speaker 2: think are faked. In twenty nineteen, the Radio Lab podcast 294 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:12,410 Speaker 2: interviewed an expert about the disturbing new technology of deep fakes. 295 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:18,570 Speaker 2: She wasn't too worried, so they asked her why if 296 00:23:18,610 --> 00:23:22,370 Speaker 2: people know that such technology exists, they'll be more skeptical. 297 00:23:23,050 --> 00:23:26,810 Speaker 2: She explained, if people know that fake news exists. If 298 00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:30,050 Speaker 2: they know that fake text exists, fake videos exist, fake 299 00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:33,810 Speaker 2: photos exist, then everyone's more skeptical in what they read 300 00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:39,410 Speaker 2: and see. But perhaps we've already taken skepticism too far. 301 00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:44,690 Speaker 2: Consider a new analysis in the Journal of Experimental Psychology 302 00:23:45,050 --> 00:23:50,130 Speaker 2: from the psychologists Ariana Moudu, Rooster Galian, and Philip Hyam. 303 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:54,570 Speaker 2: They look at online games about fake news designed by 304 00:23:54,570 --> 00:24:00,370 Speaker 2: researchers to help warn people about disinformation, even to inoculate 305 00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:05,530 Speaker 2: them against being fooled. And these games work sort of. 306 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:11,650 Speaker 2: After playing the games, experimental subs are indeed more likely 307 00:24:12,010 --> 00:24:17,890 Speaker 2: to flag fake news as fake news. Unfortunately, they're also 308 00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:22,170 Speaker 2: more likely to flag genuine news stories as fake news. 309 00:24:23,090 --> 00:24:29,770 Speaker 2: Their ability to discriminate between true and false doesn't improve. Instead, 310 00:24:30,530 --> 00:24:35,650 Speaker 2: they become more cynical about everything. Is that an improvement 311 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:40,930 Speaker 2: or is the cure worse than the disease. Deep fakes, 312 00:24:41,370 --> 00:24:46,010 Speaker 2: like all fakes, raise the possibility that people will mistake 313 00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:50,170 Speaker 2: a lie for the truth, but they also create space 314 00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:52,810 Speaker 2: for us to mistake the truth for a. 315 00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:54,810 Speaker 1: Lie, true a lie. 316 00:24:55,050 --> 00:24:59,090 Speaker 2: Just think about the notorious tape from Access Hollywood in 317 00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:03,810 Speaker 2: which Donald Trump boasted of sexually assaulting women. Hey, when 318 00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:04,690 Speaker 2: you're a star, they. 319 00:25:04,650 --> 00:25:06,290 Speaker 1: Let You Do It. 320 00:25:06,290 --> 00:25:10,210 Speaker 2: It was released in October twenty sixteen and caused a 321 00:25:10,290 --> 00:25:16,330 Speaker 2: political explosion. Deep fake audio didn't exist then, but if 322 00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:21,770 Speaker 2: it had, Trump could easily just have said, that's not 323 00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:26,090 Speaker 2: my voice on the tape. The mere fact that deep 324 00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:31,850 Speaker 2: fakes might exist creates a completely new kind of deniability. 325 00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:36,810 Speaker 2: That's not just a hypothetical claim. It's already happening. In 326 00:25:36,850 --> 00:25:39,970 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, in a lawsuit over the death of 327 00:25:40,010 --> 00:25:45,930 Speaker 2: a man using Tesla's self driving capabilities, Elon Musk's lawyers 328 00:25:46,090 --> 00:25:50,450 Speaker 2: questioned the YouTube video in which Musk was talking about 329 00:25:50,490 --> 00:25:54,450 Speaker 2: those capabilities. It might be a deep fake, they said. 330 00:25:55,450 --> 00:26:00,770 Speaker 2: The judge was unimpressed, but surely this is just a 331 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:05,170 Speaker 2: taste of what's to come. If we're shown enough faked 332 00:26:05,450 --> 00:26:10,050 Speaker 2: videos of atrocities or of political gaffes, we might start 333 00:26:10,090 --> 00:26:14,170 Speaker 2: to dismiss real videos of atrocities and real videos of 334 00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:18,690 Speaker 2: political gaffs too. It's good to be skeptical, but if 335 00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:24,170 Speaker 2: we're too skeptical, and even the most straightforward truths are 336 00:26:24,290 --> 00:26:30,090 Speaker 2: up for debate, that may explain why. Five years after 337 00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:35,290 Speaker 2: Samantha Cole explained deep fake pornography to her astonished readers, 338 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:40,330 Speaker 2: she was writing an article with the stupefying title, is 339 00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:45,890 Speaker 2: Joe Biden dead? Replaced by ten different deep fake body 340 00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:51,530 Speaker 2: doubles an investigation, it might seem a long road from 341 00:26:51,810 --> 00:26:56,170 Speaker 2: that woman waving a sex toy around really isn't Galgadott 342 00:26:56,730 --> 00:26:59,730 Speaker 2: to that man giving a speech in the White House 343 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:04,650 Speaker 2: really is Joe Biden. But it's a road that Eric 344 00:27:04,730 --> 00:27:09,770 Speaker 2: Heborn would have understood very well. Maybe that Brougel really 345 00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:13,690 Speaker 2: is a Broigle, Maybe the da Vinci is just a 346 00:27:13,770 --> 00:27:18,010 Speaker 2: da Vinci. If Hebron was telling the truth about replacing 347 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:21,330 Speaker 2: that Broigl with his own drawing, why did he do 348 00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:25,410 Speaker 2: it to amuse himself and burnish his reputation as a 349 00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:29,530 Speaker 2: master draftsman When he confessed if he lied about it, 350 00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:33,770 Speaker 2: why also to amuse himself and burnish his reputation as 351 00:27:33,770 --> 00:27:38,930 Speaker 2: a master draftsman. The writer and artist Jonathan Keats, in 352 00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:44,810 Speaker 2: his book Forged, said of Heborn, faking his fakery may 353 00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:48,890 Speaker 2: have been his master stroke, since no amount of sleuthing 354 00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:56,570 Speaker 2: could detect forgeries that never existed. Cautionary tales will return 355 00:27:57,530 --> 00:28:14,450 Speaker 2: after the break. In twenty sixteen, two analysts at the 356 00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:20,130 Speaker 2: think tank RAND described the evolving propaganda strategy of the 357 00:28:20,250 --> 00:28:25,250 Speaker 2: Russian government. The conventional wisdom on propaganda messages is that 358 00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:28,130 Speaker 2: they should be true when possible, and whether or not 359 00:28:28,170 --> 00:28:34,330 Speaker 2: they were true, they should be believable inconsistent. But the 360 00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:39,090 Speaker 2: new Russian approach was quite different. Russian media channels would 361 00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:42,930 Speaker 2: post anything, as would social media accounts that would be 362 00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:46,410 Speaker 2: operated from Saint Petersburg but were pretending to be out 363 00:28:46,450 --> 00:28:50,570 Speaker 2: of Portland or Punk's attorney. It didn't matter whether what 364 00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:54,850 Speaker 2: they said was true. It didn't matter whether it was believable. 365 00:28:55,570 --> 00:29:02,010 Speaker 2: What mattered was speed, relevance, and volume. The analysts called 366 00:29:02,010 --> 00:29:06,970 Speaker 2: this strategy the fire hose of falsehood. That's a nickname 367 00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:12,650 Speaker 2: that would have suited Eric Hebber perfectly. As we explored 368 00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:17,170 Speaker 2: in our recent episode Missing on Dead Mountain, a Cold 369 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:21,210 Speaker 2: War cold case, there are several reasons why the fire 370 00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:24,770 Speaker 2: hose of falsehood can work. Despite the fact that the 371 00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:30,610 Speaker 2: individual lies and not especially plausible, vast relevant spin from 372 00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:34,770 Speaker 2: lots of different sources, all pushing the same basic perspective 373 00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:39,410 Speaker 2: can create an overall impression that feels quite believable. I 374 00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:42,570 Speaker 2: see something from one source, and then something sympathetic from 375 00:29:42,610 --> 00:29:46,250 Speaker 2: another source, and another and another, and it might start 376 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:50,330 Speaker 2: to seem like the truth, and the fire hose of 377 00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:54,610 Speaker 2: falsehood can also deliver results, even if nobody believes a 378 00:29:54,730 --> 00:29:59,490 Speaker 2: word of it. When it works, it floods social media 379 00:29:59,810 --> 00:30:05,450 Speaker 2: and sometimes the conventional media too, with distractions, toxicity, ship 380 00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:09,810 Speaker 2: posting an obvious nonsense. The result may well be to 381 00:30:09,970 --> 00:30:16,290 Speaker 2: turn news consumers off completely. Why would you spend time 382 00:30:16,530 --> 00:30:20,370 Speaker 2: trying to understand the world when everyone seems to be 383 00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:25,210 Speaker 2: lying about it all the time. In a press conference 384 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:29,850 Speaker 2: late in twenty twenty three, Vladimir Putin fielded a video 385 00:30:30,010 --> 00:30:33,050 Speaker 2: call from a deep faked copy of himself. 386 00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:35,570 Speaker 1: Do you have a lot of doubles? 387 00:30:35,970 --> 00:30:40,810 Speaker 2: Asked the software doppelganger. Putin calmly replied to his own 388 00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:45,130 Speaker 2: digital double that only one person could speak with the 389 00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:49,210 Speaker 2: voice of Putin, and that would be Putin himself. Under 390 00:30:49,210 --> 00:30:54,450 Speaker 2: the circumstances, that was absurd. So why arrange such a 391 00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:58,050 Speaker 2: stunt to create a moment of levity in a country 392 00:30:58,050 --> 00:31:02,050 Speaker 2: at war? Perhaps, but there's also a subtext. You can't 393 00:31:02,050 --> 00:31:06,290 Speaker 2: believe your eyes, you can't believe your ears, you can't 394 00:31:06,290 --> 00:31:17,010 Speaker 2: believe anything that suits President Putin just fine. In nineteen 395 00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:21,610 Speaker 2: ninety five, Eric Heborn followed up his autobiography with another 396 00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:25,330 Speaker 2: book written and first published in Italian it was a 397 00:31:25,450 --> 00:31:31,610 Speaker 2: scandalous How to Guide the Art Forger's Handbook. A few 398 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:35,970 Speaker 2: weeks later, he was found lying in the street near 399 00:31:36,010 --> 00:31:40,770 Speaker 2: his apartment in Rome. The medics thought at first that 400 00:31:40,810 --> 00:31:44,450 Speaker 2: he had drunk too much, fallen and hit his head, 401 00:31:44,770 --> 00:31:47,890 Speaker 2: but not for the first time in Heborn's life, the 402 00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:52,130 Speaker 2: professionals were confused by what they were looking at. Heborn 403 00:31:52,330 --> 00:31:56,370 Speaker 2: was ferried from one hospital to another and left lying 404 00:31:56,410 --> 00:32:00,650 Speaker 2: on a trolley for hours. When they eventually recognized how 405 00:32:00,770 --> 00:32:04,850 Speaker 2: serious his injuries were and operated on him, it was 406 00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:09,570 Speaker 2: too late. Heborn died on the eleventh of January nineteen 407 00:32:09,650 --> 00:32:13,850 Speaker 2: ninety six, a couple of days after being taken into hospital. 408 00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:20,370 Speaker 2: Over the next few days, hints of another story started 409 00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:25,690 Speaker 2: to emerge. The autopsy concluded that Heborn hadn't taken a 410 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:29,090 Speaker 2: drunken stumble, he had been killed by a hammer blow 411 00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:33,370 Speaker 2: to the skull, and Heborn's apartment had been ransacked while 412 00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:37,770 Speaker 2: he was lying in the street. As so often, the 413 00:32:37,890 --> 00:32:42,970 Speaker 2: truth about Heborn is elusive. The conventional wisdom is that 414 00:32:43,050 --> 00:32:48,090 Speaker 2: Hebborn was murdered, but the murder investigation never happened. Perhaps 415 00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:50,970 Speaker 2: there were just too many people who might have wanted 416 00:32:51,010 --> 00:32:54,890 Speaker 2: him dead. But others who knew Hebborn well say this 417 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:58,690 Speaker 2: is nonsense. The magistrate opened a murder inquiry when the 418 00:32:58,730 --> 00:33:03,210 Speaker 2: circumstances seemed unclear, and it never went anywhere because the first, 419 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:07,970 Speaker 2: simplest explanation was the right one. He was drunk, he fell, 420 00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:13,890 Speaker 2: and it was just a tragic accident. It would be 421 00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:17,850 Speaker 2: nice to know the truth, but surely we've spent enough 422 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:22,530 Speaker 2: time in Eric Heborn's company to realize that sometimes the 423 00:33:22,650 --> 00:33:28,770 Speaker 2: truth refuses to be known. Heborn was a charming rogue. 424 00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:34,530 Speaker 2: He told outrageous stories, he embarrassed snooty art critics and 425 00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:40,050 Speaker 2: cheated cheats. And let's not forget he made beautiful drawings. 426 00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:44,570 Speaker 2: The artist Jonathan Keats invites us to think of Heborn 427 00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:48,770 Speaker 2: as creating the work that the old masters were no 428 00:33:48,810 --> 00:33:50,210 Speaker 2: longer available to make. 429 00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:51,570 Speaker 1: VILLEM. 430 00:33:51,650 --> 00:33:55,810 Speaker 2: Van der Velde would gladly have painted another handsome seascape 431 00:33:55,890 --> 00:33:59,850 Speaker 2: that he died in seventeen oh seven. Eric Heborn took 432 00:33:59,930 --> 00:34:04,850 Speaker 2: up the commission in nineteen sixty and thank goodness, it's 433 00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:08,490 Speaker 2: a heartwarming idea and one that would have pleased Heborn. 434 00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:12,770 Speaker 2: That we can create old works of art anew and 435 00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:17,050 Speaker 2: art history can expand like an accordion to accommodate them. 436 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:19,010 Speaker 1: But I wonder. 437 00:34:20,130 --> 00:34:23,050 Speaker 2: I certainly don't feel comfortable in a world in which 438 00:34:23,090 --> 00:34:26,850 Speaker 2: we can create alternative facts and squeeze them in next 439 00:34:26,890 --> 00:34:30,290 Speaker 2: to the real facts. In a world where Vladimir Putin 440 00:34:30,410 --> 00:34:34,610 Speaker 2: has conversations with himself, and where people aren't sure if 441 00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:39,290 Speaker 2: that's Joe Biden or ten deep fakes of him, and 442 00:34:39,330 --> 00:34:42,690 Speaker 2: even in the world of art, should we welcome all 443 00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:46,130 Speaker 2: those heborns. I fear that we lose more than we 444 00:34:46,170 --> 00:34:48,850 Speaker 2: gain when we start to lose confidence in the da 445 00:34:48,890 --> 00:34:54,090 Speaker 2: Vinci's and the Brougels and the michael Angelo's. After Heborn 446 00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:57,570 Speaker 2: claimed to have created a better Brougle and flushed the 447 00:34:57,650 --> 00:35:01,570 Speaker 2: old version down the toilet, his former boyfriend and business 448 00:35:01,610 --> 00:35:05,730 Speaker 2: partner published his own memoirs, saying that the story about 449 00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:10,930 Speaker 2: the Brougle drawing wasn't true. The story about setting fire 450 00:35:11,050 --> 00:35:14,810 Speaker 2: to his school has been disputed too. Once there are 451 00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:20,210 Speaker 2: enough lies around, it's easy to start doubting will everything. 452 00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:27,090 Speaker 2: There's a moment in the BBC documentary Heborn, shaded from 453 00:35:27,130 --> 00:35:31,770 Speaker 2: the Italian sun by a floppy peasant's hat. His voice 454 00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:35,290 Speaker 2: is soft as he tells the tale of being falsely 455 00:35:35,330 --> 00:35:39,930 Speaker 2: accused of arson, of his frightened nursery rhyme, of being 456 00:35:39,970 --> 00:35:42,730 Speaker 2: sent to court and then to with attention center at 457 00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:45,970 Speaker 2: the age of eight. And I couldn't help that wander 458 00:35:47,690 --> 00:35:52,890 Speaker 2: was any of it real? Heborn once told an art journalist, 459 00:35:53,850 --> 00:35:58,890 Speaker 2: I like to spread a little confusion. He succeeded, and 460 00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:02,570 Speaker 2: he became so notorious that people are now starting to 461 00:36:02,650 --> 00:36:07,490 Speaker 2: value the Heborn forgeries in their own right. The trouble is, 462 00:36:07,890 --> 00:36:11,530 Speaker 2: wrote one art dsler. Some of the drawings which were 463 00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:15,330 Speaker 2: being offered for sale by Heborn's associates and former friends 464 00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:20,130 Speaker 2: had a strange feel to them, an unusually lifeless quality 465 00:36:20,210 --> 00:36:23,450 Speaker 2: which did not seem true of Eric's work at all. 466 00:36:24,330 --> 00:36:30,210 Speaker 2: I had misgivings about the drawings and declined to purchase them. 467 00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:36,090 Speaker 2: Genuine fakes, fakes of fakes. Maybe they weren't fakes at all, 468 00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:40,330 Speaker 2: just original old masters having an off day. The more 469 00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:43,930 Speaker 2: time I spend in the world of Eric Heborn, the 470 00:36:43,930 --> 00:36:46,890 Speaker 2: more I start to worry that I'll never know the truth. 471 00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:55,810 Speaker 2: Who's speaking? Please, it doesn't matter who I am. I'm 472 00:36:55,850 --> 00:36:57,810 Speaker 2: a friend of the gallery, and you need to know 473 00:36:57,890 --> 00:37:02,210 Speaker 2: you've been had. The anonymous phone call to the core 474 00:37:02,290 --> 00:37:06,690 Speaker 2: to Old Institute which named eleven artworks as being forgeries 475 00:37:06,730 --> 00:37:11,690 Speaker 2: by Heborn, took place two years after Heborn died. We 476 00:37:11,770 --> 00:37:15,290 Speaker 2: still don't know who made the call or why. The 477 00:37:15,370 --> 00:37:18,410 Speaker 2: curator who received it thinks it might have been an 478 00:37:18,490 --> 00:37:23,130 Speaker 2: ex boyfriend of Heborn's. I recently visited the court Hold 479 00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,250 Speaker 2: to look at some of the fakes and wrongly suspected 480 00:37:27,250 --> 00:37:32,250 Speaker 2: fakes and the works suspended in limbo. It was a 481 00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:37,930 Speaker 2: fascinating experience, but it was also an unsettling one. The 482 00:37:37,970 --> 00:37:42,250 Speaker 2: Courthold's research has revealed that of the eleven pictures which 483 00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:48,490 Speaker 2: were anonymously accused of being Heborn fakes, eight definitely aren't. 484 00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:52,610 Speaker 2: For example, there's a Guardi sketch which was photographed in 485 00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:56,250 Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties before Heborn was born. He can't have 486 00:37:56,330 --> 00:38:00,290 Speaker 2: faked that one unless he copied it and flushed the 487 00:38:00,330 --> 00:38:05,970 Speaker 2: original down the loop. Whoever that anonymous whistleblower was, and 488 00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:11,370 Speaker 2: whatever his reasons, he wasn't infallible. But three pictures remain 489 00:38:11,770 --> 00:38:16,490 Speaker 2: under suspicion, including the Michael Angelo. We just don't know 490 00:38:16,810 --> 00:38:21,130 Speaker 2: whether it's real or not. It's a beautiful, simple sketch 491 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:24,130 Speaker 2: in red chalk and brown ink of the Virgin and 492 00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:29,650 Speaker 2: Child by perhaps one of the greatest artists who ever lived, 493 00:38:30,450 --> 00:38:34,250 Speaker 2: And yet it seems doomed to have an asterisk beside 494 00:38:34,290 --> 00:38:40,610 Speaker 2: it forever. I left the court Old Institute and strolled 495 00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:45,450 Speaker 2: towards the National Gallery just down the road, where I 496 00:38:45,490 --> 00:38:50,330 Speaker 2: could see Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece, the Burlington House Cartoon. 497 00:38:51,570 --> 00:38:55,930 Speaker 2: This is the work that Heborn claimed he'd redrawn after 498 00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:58,690 Speaker 2: a drunk porter left it too close to a radiator. 499 00:38:59,730 --> 00:39:03,890 Speaker 2: The worker, mentally ill man later blasted with a shotgun, 500 00:39:04,210 --> 00:39:09,090 Speaker 2: and I couldn't help wandering if that piece really is 501 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:13,250 Speaker 2: is a da Vinci? Then who damaged it? More the 502 00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:18,890 Speaker 2: man and his shotgun or Eric Heborn and his story. 503 00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:23,490 Speaker 2: Once you start to worry about what's real and what's fake, 504 00:39:25,090 --> 00:39:47,810 Speaker 2: it's hard to stop. For a full list of our sources, 505 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:56,810 Speaker 2: see the show notes at Timharford dot com. Cautionary Tales 506 00:39:56,890 --> 00:40:00,330 Speaker 2: is written by me Tim Harford, with Andrew Wright, Alice Fines, 507 00:40:00,570 --> 00:40:04,650 Speaker 2: and Ryan Dilly. It's produced by Georgia Mills and Marilyn Rust. 508 00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:07,930 Speaker 2: The sound design and original music are the work of 509 00:40:08,050 --> 00:40:12,130 Speaker 2: Pascal Wise. Additional sound design is by Carlos San Juan 510 00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:17,370 Speaker 2: at Brain Audio. Bend A Dafhaffrey edited the scripts. The 511 00:40:17,410 --> 00:40:21,170 Speaker 2: show features the voice talents of Melanie Guttridge, Stella Harford, 512 00:40:21,370 --> 00:40:26,570 Speaker 2: Oliver Hembrough, Sarah Jupp, Massaamn Roe, Jamal Westman, and rufus Wright. 513 00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:30,010 Speaker 2: The show also wouldn't have been possible without the work 514 00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:34,930 Speaker 2: of Jacob Weisberg, Greta Cohne, Sarah Nix, Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, 515 00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:40,530 Speaker 2: Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey, and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is 516 00:40:40,570 --> 00:40:44,850 Speaker 2: a production of Pushkin Industries. It's recorded at Wardoor Studios 517 00:40:44,970 --> 00:40:48,450 Speaker 2: in London by Tom Berry. If you like the show, 518 00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:51,850 Speaker 2: please remember to share, rate and review. It really makes 519 00:40:51,850 --> 00:40:53,450 Speaker 2: a difference to us and if you want to hear 520 00:40:53,490 --> 00:40:56,810 Speaker 2: the show, add free sign up to Pushkin Plus on 521 00:40:56,890 --> 00:41:00,650 Speaker 2: the show page on Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin dot Fm, 522 00:41:00,770 --> 00:41:01,850 Speaker 2: slash plus 523 00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:09,570 Speaker 3: Oo