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Speaker 1: Hello, Next Picture Show listeners, here's a friendly reminder that

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Speaker 1: if you enjoy the Next Picture Show, you'll really enjoy

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Speaker 1: getting more Next Picture Show. By subscribing to our Patreon,

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Speaker 1: three hours a month, and get bonus episodes on current

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Speaker 1: TV movies we didn't cover on the podcast and other

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Speaker 1: topics for five dollars a month. Recent episodes include discussions

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Speaker 1: of Wolfman, Companion, and my highlights from the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five Sundance Film Festival. To subscribe to our Patreon, please

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Speaker 1: visit patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. That's patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Next Picture Show. It's very difficult to

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Speaker 1: keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 2: And the press.

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Speaker 3: You believe that someone out of the past we can

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Speaker 3: enter and take possession of a living We.

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Speaker 4: May be through with the past, but the past is

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Speaker 4: not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next Picture Show. A Movie the Week

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Speaker 1: podcast devote to classic film and how it shaped our

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Speaker 1: thoughts on a recent release. I'm Keith Phipps here.

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Speaker 5: With Chena Beef Cooski and Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 1: Our regure co host Tasha Robinson will not be joining

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Speaker 1: us tonight, but will we return soon. Filling in for

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Speaker 1: her is our old friend Sam Adams, who's currently a

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Speaker 1: writer for Slate covering movies and other aspects of culture.

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Speaker 6: That's what I got that right, right, Sam?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that works for me.

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Speaker 6: Okay, Hello Sam, Hi, guys.

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Speaker 5: Hi, good to have you finally.

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Speaker 3: Yea, But why hasn't Sam Adams been on before we

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Speaker 3: settled our long standing feud.

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Speaker 6: We don't have time to go into tonight. The beef

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Speaker 6: has been squashed. You squashed beef? Squatch a beef? Whichever?

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Speaker 5: What did you give it a nice seer first?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 6: That's true.

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Speaker 1: So according to the Next Picture Show tradition, now is

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Speaker 1: the point where we usually engage in some kind of

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Speaker 1: chit chat. This is our last show we're going to

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Speaker 1: record that'll be released before the oscars, at least of them.

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Speaker 6: With the chit chat segment.

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Speaker 1: So I was gonna kind of go around, what is

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Speaker 1: like one oscar that everyone would like to see happen,

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Speaker 1: not pure fantasy, something that's actually been nominated.

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Speaker 7: I'm gonna go with the plausible uh and uh. And

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Speaker 7: I really hope that Anora continues its sudden late momentum

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Speaker 7: and goes ahead and wins Best Picture because it was

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Speaker 7: my favorite movie of the year. Why not would that

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Speaker 7: be nice for it to win Best Picture? I think

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Speaker 7: that would be pretty exciting.

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Speaker 6: It's feeling like very possible, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: No, I mean because it was sort of seemed to

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Speaker 7: be written off a little bit and then it just,

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Speaker 7: you know, snapped off a couple of big wins in

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Speaker 7: a row, and it seems like, you know, it's a

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Speaker 7: film that people have really liked since cann and continue

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Speaker 7: to like, and so maybe it's going to find the

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Speaker 7: momentum it needs to win the whole thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. It was my top pick on the Vulture Fantasy

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Speaker 5: Movies League, which is the reason I want to see

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Speaker 5: a win because I have been tanking this season due

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Speaker 5: to aforementioned a slow start to award season for Anora.

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Speaker 5: So I would love to see it come roaring back

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Speaker 5: for that very selfish reason.

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Speaker 1: I figet what I put my money in on that

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Speaker 1: my virtual money, but it was it has not been

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Speaker 1: a winner for me at all. Sam, How about you,

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Speaker 1: what would you like to see?

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Speaker 3: I'm going to pull for Flow, which for as a movie,

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Speaker 3: it's an animated film from Latvia that is nominated for

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Speaker 3: both Animated and International Film Oscars. I'm gonna pulfri it

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Speaker 3: specifically in the animation category. Someone listening to this is

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Speaker 3: going to have seen my Top ten list and have

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Speaker 3: noted that The Wild Robot, which is also up in

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Speaker 3: the category, was on my top ten list for last

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Speaker 3: year and Flow wasn't, And that is a fair criticism.

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Speaker 3: Two weirdly similar movies in terms of plot with very

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Speaker 3: different approaches. I think the Wild Robot, which is a

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Speaker 3: more sort of you know, large scale professional Hollywood production,

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Speaker 3: may ultimately kind of do the thing it's doing better.

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Speaker 3: But Flow, which I watched again last night, is just

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Speaker 3: kind of a glorious, sort of small scale, handmade movie

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Speaker 3: about a cat surviving the apocalypse with his animal friends,

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Speaker 3: which include a dog and a lemur and akappy bara.

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Speaker 3: And it's made for I think like three and a

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Speaker 3: half million euros. And there's this open source saucewater called Blender.

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Speaker 3: It has this kind of nice, low tech feel to it.

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Speaker 3: It's totally dialogue free, and the animals are kind of

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Speaker 3: not antipomorphized, or maybe only a little bit, but they

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Speaker 3: actually you know, the cat behaves like a cat. The

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Speaker 3: yellow lab behaves very much like a yellow lab. And

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Speaker 3: it's just a great sort of immersive environmental movie, and

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Speaker 3: it has sort of the feel of Studio Gibili in

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Speaker 3: some ways, and it's just a really kind of exciting

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Speaker 3: idea to think about that winning. The director whose name

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Speaker 3: I'm hopefully not mangled too badly, which is against Silbe Lootis,

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Speaker 3: is really just like a sort of charming young filmmaker,

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Speaker 3: incredibly good on social media. If you want to see

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Speaker 3: like endless cute pictures of the dogs and cats and

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Speaker 3: other animals that modeled for this movie, just go to

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Speaker 3: his Blue sky feed and it is filled up with

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Speaker 3: them every day. And it's just sort of like a

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Speaker 3: fun idea to think of this movie triumphing particularly anim

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Speaker 3: category where the auficers just completely ignore independent animation and

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Speaker 3: just basically you sort of flip a coin between Pixar

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Speaker 3: and Disney every year. So I am pulling for him

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Speaker 3: just because I would love to see the win. I

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Speaker 3: would love to see him up on that stage.

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Speaker 1: For me, I'm gonna here's one I wouldn't mind seeing.

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Speaker 1: It's just because it kind of the same reason that

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Speaker 1: Sam is pulling for Flow. I wouldn't mind seeing Daniel

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg win for his score for The Brutalists, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: I love a good traditional film score, but I've always

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Speaker 1: want to kind of broaden the spectrum of what film

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Speaker 1: score music can be, and that soundtrack is really something.

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Speaker 6: It's really I've listened.

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Speaker 1: To it on its own, it kind of puts me

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Speaker 1: a little bit too much on edge to listen to

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Speaker 1: too casually. But in that movie, it's just so there's

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Speaker 1: like these really lyrical passages that are just lovely, and

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Speaker 1: there's other stuff that just really kind of puts you

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Speaker 1: in that anxious mindset that you have watched the movie. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: what a score is supposed to do, it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: make you feel what you're supposed to feel. I think

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Speaker 1: that one really does that, but kind of at that

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Speaker 1: goes out that task through a less traditional, really innovative way.

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Speaker 7: That's definitely a standout score really in a year where

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Speaker 7: I'm having trouble identifying the many stand out of scores.

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Speaker 3: It's also a score where going into The Brutalists, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I knew that Britty Corbet had done his previous two

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Speaker 3: movies with the late, great, incredibly weird Scott Walker, who

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Speaker 3: you know, sort of famously like used the sound of

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Speaker 3: someone punching frozen meat in a meat locker as percussion

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Speaker 3: on one of his albums, So he had a lot

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Speaker 3: to that's some really big, weird shoes to step into,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, good luck, guy, And then I

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Speaker 3: heard the score and like, he actually pulls it off,

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Speaker 3: and that is a somewhat miraculous feat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just like to kind of underscore a point of

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Speaker 1: how you know, non traditional stores scores don't often sometimes

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Speaker 1: don't get nominated. You know, we had a great Aticus

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Speaker 1: Ross and turn Trent Resnor score for Challengers that was

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Speaker 1: similarly I'm nerving and not necessarily the good writing music

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to be, but great in the great

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Speaker 1: in the context of the movie. Well, I'm sure we'll

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Speaker 1: probably do a bonus episod of once the Oscars are

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Speaker 1: over and is now February, so that time is approaching.

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Speaker 1: We spent January talking about movies with ghosts and vampires,

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Speaker 1: but our next pairing brings us back into the realm

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Speaker 1: of reality and in some very silvering ways via a

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Speaker 1: couple of films. Wants a documentary of the other ones

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Speaker 1: narrative feature that chronicle dark chapters in relative release to

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Speaker 1: extremely recent history Jennery, What can You tell Us About

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Speaker 1: This Pairing?

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Speaker 5: Nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. No

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Speaker 5: Other Land is a collaborative effort directed by a collective

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Speaker 5: of four filmmakers, Basil Adra, You've all, Abraham, Hamdan Balal

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Speaker 5: and Rachel Zor. It's Adra and Abraham who can be

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Speaker 5: seen in front of their camera, and it's their relationship

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Speaker 5: that helps shape the film. Adra is a lawyer and

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Speaker 5: activist who lives in Masafariata, a West Bank region whose

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Speaker 5: villages are being cleared by Israel as part of an

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Speaker 5: effort to construct a military training base. This involves a

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Speaker 5: forcible ejection of over a thousand residents. Abraham is an

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Speaker 5: Israeli journalist sympathetic to those residents that issue, and the

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Speaker 5: film they make together gives them common cause and leads

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Speaker 5: them to become friends. But it's a relationship that underscores

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Speaker 5: the privileges that set them apart from one another. Their

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Speaker 5: relationship and the story of a friendship formed in the

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Speaker 5: midst of conflict and chaos, brought to mind The Killing Fields.

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Speaker 5: Roland Jaffes nineteen eighty four, dramatization of the story of

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Speaker 5: New York Times reporter Sidney Schoenberg, who covered the tumult

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Speaker 5: of Cambodia in the early nineteen seventies, and Dith Prawn,

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Speaker 5: a Cambodian journalist and interpreter who worked alongside him as

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Speaker 5: the country fell to the Khmer Rouge.

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Speaker 1: So this week, wory visit Jaffe's heroine depiction of Cambodia

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Speaker 1: under the despotic role of Paul Pet's Khmer Rouge, as

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Speaker 1: seen by two survivors with strikingly different experiences. Then in

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Speaker 1: the following episode will discuss the documentary built upon a

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Speaker 1: friendship between two film occurs on opposite sides of a

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Speaker 1: cultural and political divide forged in a different political hot spot.

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Speaker 6: We'll be back after the break.

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Speaker 2: In the country shattered by war, a New York Times

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Speaker 2: reporter and his interpreter would learn the price of survival,

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Speaker 2: of freedom and friendship.

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Speaker 3: This is a big.

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Speaker 6: Story, major story.

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Speaker 5: You understand that we are going.

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Speaker 2: It down there, the Killing Fields.

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Speaker 6: US Palm's sure.

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Speaker 4: I think many minute that I don't know. That's a rumor.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm not gonna come in on a rumor.

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Speaker 2: David ns And of Newsweek calls the Killing Fields an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary movie, compelling and convincing, not to be missed.

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Speaker 3: All right, I've arranged for the evacuation of you and

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Speaker 3: your fans, so now it's up to you.

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Speaker 5: What do you want to do?

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Speaker 2: Richard Shippel of Time Magazine says, one has to admire

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Speaker 2: the honesty of the Killing Fields.

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Speaker 5: You know Pran is not gonna last five minutes up there.

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Speaker 2: Pat Collins of CDs Morning News calls The Killing Fields unforgettable,

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Speaker 2: and People Magazine says, if you see no more than

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Speaker 2: one film a year, make it this one.

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Speaker 5: Why didn't you get him out when you had that chance?

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Speaker 6: You have no right to keep him there.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Schaeffer of US Magazine calls it one of the

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Speaker 2: year's best movies, stirring true story that captures human drama

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Speaker 2: with true compassion.

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Speaker 3: I'm very pleased to accept this on behalf of Dith Prime.

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Speaker 5: On myself.

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Speaker 3: It bothers me the two my pre and stand Cambodi

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Speaker 3: because you wanted to win that ward.

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Speaker 6: Nobody gets to go in there.

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Speaker 5: If I thought I could, I would.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear how many people died as a result of

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Speaker 1: the Cambodian genocide committed by the Khmer Rouge between nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy five and nineteen seventy nine, but most estimates place

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Speaker 1: it between one and a half and two million. Either

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Speaker 1: number is, of course unfathomable. In one of the most

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Speaker 1: memorable scenes in The Killing Fields, Dith pron, after being

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Speaker 1: separated from family and friends who were able to flee

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Speaker 1: the country, stumbles into one of the sites in which

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Speaker 1: a mass slaughterer occurred. It's filled with countless skeletons, many

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Speaker 1: still wearing the suffocating plastic bags used it to one

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Speaker 1: of the Kamara Rouges execution methods, but even this horrific

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Speaker 1: scene accounts for only a fraction of the dead. As

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Speaker 1: with other atrocities, the genocide shoes the scale clouds our

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Speaker 1: ability to comprehend the fullness of the loss. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to get your head around the notion of that many

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Speaker 1: individual lives being snuffed out pitilessly. It was the real

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Speaker 1: life Prawn who coined the term killing fields, and it's

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Speaker 1: another survivor that genocide who plays him. A surgeon and

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Speaker 1: gynecologist by training, hang Us Norr was not a professional

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Speaker 1: actor when he was cast as Prawn opposite Sam Waterston

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Speaker 1: as Sidney Shandberg. The New York Times reporter Prawn aided

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Speaker 1: and befronted it. It's a decision to keep the film

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Speaker 1: focused on these two characters versus a team then in

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Speaker 1: their time of part that makes A Killing Field so effective.

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Speaker 1: Directed by Roland Jaffey from a script by Bruce Robinson,

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Speaker 1: The Killing Fields forces viewers to stay by their side

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Speaker 1: as an already dangerous situation spends out of control from

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Speaker 1: the Cambodian capital Panom Penn. They watch as rumors of

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Speaker 1: a Kamara Rouge takeover turn into reality, as does the

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Speaker 1: very real possibility that the movement's foot soldiers, many of

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Speaker 1: them young men and children, will take extreme measures to

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Speaker 1: ensure its success. Shot by the Great Chris Menji's whose

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Speaker 1: work includes several Canloach films, and Builth Forsys's Local Hero,

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Speaker 1: which shares producer David Putnam with The Killing Fields, Jeffey's

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Speaker 1: film is filled with striking images. Some border on the surreal,

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Speaker 1: like Khmer Rouge soldiers making a warehouse filled with Coca

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Speaker 1: cola at their home base. Others are harrowing, as when

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Speaker 1: Prawn drinks the blood of a cow in a desperate

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Speaker 1: attempt to avoid starvation. But Jeffay never puts any real

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Speaker 1: distance between viewers and the film's characters, making clear the

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Speaker 1: potentially life and death stakes of say a polaroid image

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Speaker 1: that refuses to develop, or Pron's ability to hide his

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Speaker 1: education less to be killed as part of the Khmara

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Speaker 1: Rouge Year zero Purge. The drama is intense and personal.

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Speaker 1: When the focus remains this tight, the politics become secondary,

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Speaker 1: even incidental, which isn't to say they're not there. The

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Speaker 1: Killing Fields is an angry film, one that does not

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Speaker 1: shy away from the horrors enacted by the Khmer Rouge,

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Speaker 1: but some of that anger comes from Sidney's insistence on

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Speaker 1: placing the blame for Polepont's ascent on the United States's

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Speaker 1: decision to bomb the country as an extension of the

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Speaker 1: Vietnam War. The Killing Field depicts historical events that were

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Speaker 1: still in progress despite the Khmara Rouge being deposed, but

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Speaker 1: it's also a film about the situations in which politics

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Speaker 1: melt away in some ways. The decision to play John

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Speaker 1: Lennon's imagine over the final scene in which Schanberg and

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Speaker 1: Prawn reunite in a refugee camp plays like a hat

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Speaker 1: on a hat, the moment which caps water set on

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Speaker 1: your's excellent performances is emotional enough, but there's another way

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Speaker 1: of looking at it. After hours of watching the consequences

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Speaker 1: of a world refusing to live as one, Lenin's optimism

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Speaker 1: feels as welcome as it is wispy. This reunion, aside

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Speaker 1: the someday Lenin's singing about, feels far away.

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Speaker 2: In America. Everybody got a good half.

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Speaker 4: America.

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Speaker 7: He asked you what you drive in the United States.

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Speaker 4: I don't have a card of are only the Mercedes here?

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Speaker 5: But that is number one?

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Speaker 6: Ask him where he learned to speaks English?

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Speaker 3: Why are you on there now?

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Speaker 4: American?

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Speaker 2: American Advisor with his unique to Jim was number one?

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So one of the most striking elements of this film

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Speaker 1: is just how graphic it is. You know, what do

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Speaker 1: you think was behind that choice? It's very unsparing, even

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Speaker 1: beyond the way a lot of war movies are.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's not just a war movie. It's a

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Speaker 5: genocide movie, and I think like that is something that

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Speaker 5: you don't really want to soften. This was my first

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Speaker 5: time seeing this movie, and it made a huge impact.

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Speaker 5: I know it made a huge impact when it came out.

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Speaker 5: People saw the time, and I think it's you know,

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Speaker 5: had a huge impact on people in the decades since

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Speaker 5: as they've caught up with it, and I don't think

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Speaker 5: a softened version of this tragedy would have had that

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Speaker 5: same impact, you know. And you know, there is obviously

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Speaker 5: some bloody violence, but I think almost even more moments

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Speaker 5: of the threat of violence, and those almost hit harder.

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Speaker 5: And the reason that hit so hard is because you

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Speaker 5: do have those occasional moments where you see the outcome

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Speaker 5: of that threat. But there's a lot of just like

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Speaker 5: really tense scenes in this movie. Particularly the one that

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Speaker 5: stuck out to me and that does eventually build to

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Speaker 5: some of the violence you're talking about, is the Khmara

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Speaker 5: Rouge are coming into Panampen and you know, the war

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Speaker 5: is over, the liberation parade, you know, and there's this

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Speaker 5: sense that something isn't right, you know, That's what Sydney

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Speaker 5: is saying, and you know, we feel that even as

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Speaker 5: there's all this celebration happening, and just the way that

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Speaker 5: scene evolves into this capture of them and a very

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Speaker 5: sort of shocking, point blank headshot, you know, is kind

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Speaker 5: of a culmination of that. But everything that leads to

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Speaker 5: that moment is as affecting, if not more.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think, because I think there's another thing where

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Speaker 7: the film gets across in that moment and throughout really well.

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Speaker 4: It's just how ordinary.

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Speaker 7: People are completely at the mercy of the forces of history.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, for this parade to come through town, for.

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Speaker 7: The result of that to go one way or the other,

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Speaker 7: and people to not know what way that would be.

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Speaker 7: For one of our heroes to be kind of celebrating

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Speaker 7: and being excited about the possibility of peace and resolution

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Speaker 7: to this terrible civil war, only to have you know,

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Speaker 7: literally everyone driven out of the city and into this

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Speaker 7: terrible agrarian experiment.

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Speaker 4: It's it's remarkable.

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Speaker 7: It's remarkable to think about humans on Moss being that

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Speaker 7: vulnerable to historical forces. I think it's something the film

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Speaker 7: captures really, really well.

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Speaker 3: It's also an interesting moment too, because I think that's

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Speaker 3: the moment where Sam Waterson's character Sidney Schamberg sees this

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Speaker 3: you know, killing about go down and he sort of

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Speaker 3: grabs a camera and starts, you know, taking pictures with it,

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Speaker 3: and you know, the photojournalists played by John Malcolch is

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Speaker 3: like there's no film in there, and he says, I know,

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Speaker 3: you know, and he's just trying to use the threat

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Speaker 3: of taking photos as a way to stop this murder

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Speaker 3: from taking place in plain sight, and it doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: And you know, a large part of what this movie

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Speaker 3: is about is kind of what not just journalism itself,

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Speaker 3: you know, being a eventually Pultier winning writer for the

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Speaker 3: New York Times, not just journalism, except like what the

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Speaker 3: tools of journalism can accomplish, what power they have, and

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Speaker 3: what power they they don't have, the circumstances under which

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Speaker 3: that power just no longer holds sway, This.

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Speaker 1: Really is really good at shorthand, and in some key ways,

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Speaker 1: I think Malcolm's character Al Rockoff is you know, presented.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of this lay about maybe drunk, baby,

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Speaker 1: maybe high. But like the moment that the action starts,

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Speaker 1: he just snaps, He like comes into himself. He grabs

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Speaker 1: his camera, gets gets to it, and it starts documenting things.

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Speaker 1: And to me, in some ways, I feel like that

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Speaker 1: emphasis on the importance of journalism being on the ground

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Speaker 1: and a photojournalism in particular with that character, but also

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Speaker 1: just throughout the film. To me, that's why that's my

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Speaker 1: reasoning behind why it's as graphic as it is, because

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Speaker 1: this was a conflict is not Vietnam's Cambodia, but it's

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Speaker 1: part of the same Southeastern conflict that was going on

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Speaker 1: at the time. It was so documented and really graphic

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Speaker 1: images in the way that Americans weren't used to seeing.

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Speaker 1: I think you can't beyond the sort of greater brisoness

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Speaker 1: for violence in the nineteen eighties. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: could get away with depicting these events in ways that

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Speaker 1: anyway sugarcoat of what was happening, so you know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of historic context. I watched an interview with Jeffe

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Speaker 1: and Putnam where they talk about how there was a

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Speaker 1: longer cut of this that provided more background and more

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Speaker 1: information and greater historic detail for what was going on

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Speaker 1: that just it and work as well, and they were

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Speaker 1: happy that they changed it.

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Speaker 6: What do you think of that choice.

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Speaker 1: I did find myself, you know, happy to have the

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Speaker 1: Internet handy when I was done watching the movie so

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Speaker 1: I could look up some details. And again, this would

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Speaker 1: have been more recent history, I guess, in not teny four.

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Speaker 1: But it does kind of put you in the middle

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Speaker 1: without full explanation as to what's happening, doesn't it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was definitely you know, watching this with a

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Speaker 5: side of Google because this is just not history I

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Speaker 5: was really taught growing up, you know. But as to

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Speaker 5: whether I think like that context being in the movie

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Speaker 5: would have made it better and to kind of what

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Speaker 5: you were saying, like it was much more recent memory

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Speaker 5: to audiences when this came out. So I think, like

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Speaker 5: in the moment, that was the correct choice because I

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Speaker 5: don't think this film doesn't feel like a history lesson.

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Speaker 5: I think you can turn it into a history lesson,

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Speaker 5: like like you and I, I mean maybe did Keith

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Speaker 5: as we watched or after we watched, But you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't think you want to necessarily be taken out

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Speaker 5: of the moment of the very human story that's being

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Speaker 5: told here. With the politics of this story, I guess

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Speaker 5: like the especially like the global politics, Like I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's definitely some sort of nods to the US's role

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Speaker 5: in all this, but it's not really laid out. It

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Speaker 5: doesn't really like come down on any well. I guess

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Speaker 5: maybe the scene towards the end where Sidney is watching

403
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Speaker 5: video of Nixon swearing there's no bombing, and you know,

404
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Speaker 5: there is maybe a little bit of editorializing happening there.

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Speaker 5: But that's something I think would have like taken away

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Speaker 5: from scenes of the in the moment feeling of those

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Speaker 5: scenes actually in Cambodia. So I think like the degree

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Speaker 5: to which it's kind of separated from the rest of

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Speaker 5: the story via that late in the film scene I'm

410
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Speaker 5: talking about is kind of just enough for me. That said,

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Speaker 5: I learned a lot after this film and after I

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Speaker 5: did some educating of myself that the public school system

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Speaker 5: never did.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the movie has sort of an interesting relationship

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Speaker 3: to information, like all the way through, I mean know,

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Speaker 3: the sort of the spine of a journalistic procedural is

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Speaker 3: kind of following the reporter as they unravel whatever it

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Speaker 3: is going on piece by piece, and we acquire this

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Speaker 3: information we eventually learned to, you know, borrow a phrase

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Speaker 3: from a sort of landmark of the genre what the

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Speaker 3: President knew and when he knew it? And the movie

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Speaker 3: sort of has a number of different stances to that.

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Speaker 3: One side, Chamberg like gets to Kimbodia and he's sort

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Speaker 3: of reporting. Initially, he's tracking down this sort of errant

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Speaker 3: B fifty two bombing that took out a sort of

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Speaker 3: just a civilian town killed, you know, lots of innocent people,

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Speaker 3: and he's you know, sort of yelling at the military

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Speaker 3: until they give him the information and kind of throwing

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Speaker 3: his weight around and saying, you know, sort of threatening

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Speaker 3: people like, you know, if you don't tell me what

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to quote you in full saying

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Speaker 3: no comment in the New York Times, you know. And

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Speaker 3: then the US leaves, the Khmer rouge, you know, among

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Speaker 3: other groups kind of start to take over, and eventually

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Speaker 3: they sort of come out ahead and the whole that

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Speaker 3: whole flow of information kind of shuts down. I mean,

437
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 3: there's a scene in that part of the movie where

438
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 3: these journalists are all at this at the embassy and

439
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 3: they don't know what's going on, and they just they're

440
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 3: loosened listening to the BBC News on the radio to

441
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 3: figure out what the hell is going on, like they

442
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: don't have any better information than any schmo who can

443
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 3: you know, turn on radio. And then in the sort

444
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 3: of last part of the movie, which is kind of

445
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 3: the most interesting and also the weirdest and maybe least

446
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: successful to me, we you know, Sid and death Pron

447
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: are kind of split up there in different countries. Death

448
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: Pron spends four years as a bas as a prisoner

449
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 3: in sort of essentially work camps for the Khmer rouge,

450
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: and you know, in that case, that sort of controlling

451
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: information is key to his survival. If they find out

452
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 3: that he is an intellectual, that he finds out that

453
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: he speaks more than one language, he could just be

454
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: taken up back and shot. So they're they're kind of

455
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 3: you know, speaking French sentences to catch him off guard

456
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 3: and see if you will actually be Likeigarette and if

457
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: he goes we they'll be like they would you know,

458
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 3: that would be the end of his life. But those

459
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: those scenes are also they're in Khmer, which is a

460
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: language that he speaks, but they're not subtitled, so the audience.

461
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 5: Is kind of like that was an interesting chock.

462
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: I've got an informational loop as well, which I you know,

463
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: like a good challenge as a viewer, but I also

464
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: find to be fraught at least as a decision.

465
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 5: Well, especially to kind of go back to the question

466
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 5: about historical context, it may have helped clarify, like because

467
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 5: that whole portion of movie we're talking about where Datpron

468
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 5: is kind of serving as caretaker to Khmer general or

469
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 5: whatever's child, you know, and that he's the one who

470
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 5: keeps trying to catch him act and you know when

471
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 5: that group falls under attack. It wasn't clear to me

472
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 5: why it wasn't clear to me, what was it like

473
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 5: who these people were, you know, And maybe if we

474
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 5: had gotten subtitles there, it may have been a little

475
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 5: more clear. But also, you know, that's maybe just knowledge

476
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 5: I should have had going into this movie too.

477
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: Well, some of that is like the point too, Like

478
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: the idea is that there's this power vacuum and all

479
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: of a sudden, these like twelve year olds have guns

480
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: on you know who the hell they are or what

481
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 3: they want, but there they those guns will kill you

482
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: as much as anybody else. It doesn't nobody has any

483
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: idea like what the heck's going on? That that feels,

484
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: you know, true to the situation in some ways.

485
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean there are emotional truths that come through,

486
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 7: which is kind of what movies deal in in a.

487
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 4: Lot of ways.

488
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 7: I think I think that you all, everyone has sort

489
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 7: of made the points that I might have made in

490
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 7: terms of this being recent history for nineteen eighty four,

491
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 7: which is just again just age. You feel very old,

492
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 7: but you know, this is the events depicted of the

493
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 7: film not that far away from nineteen eighty four, and

494
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 7: so certain aspects of it I think would probably be

495
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 7: reasonably clear to the engaged adult. And maybe a specific incident,

496
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 7: like like the bombing that we get towards the beginning

497
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 7: of the film, maybe that was an event that was

498
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 7: big news that people knew about or would come to

499
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 7: know about at the time, and that maybe we're say,

500
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 7: I would be learning about.

501
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 4: By reading Google.

502
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 7: But Sam makes a good makes the right point, which

503
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 7: is that that you know, we're sticking to the perspective

504
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 7: of journalists, and they're only seeing a piece of the story.

505
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 7: They're only seeing what is in front of them, what

506
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 7: they can try to track down, what they can kind

507
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 7: of get out of sources. And I think the film

508
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 7: does such a nice job of honoring that perspective, which

509
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 7: is very visceral but also incomplete, and in order to

510
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 7: make that information more complete. That's that's what reporters reporting is.

511
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 7: That's what involves a tournament, tournamentous amount of hustle and

512
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 7: courage on the part of everybody who's out there and

513
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 7: experience the experiences everyone everyone's out there, and uh, finding

514
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 7: your way through a lot of chaos and danger. So

515
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 7: I think I think trying to add historical detail, the

516
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 7: thought of it, just as cinema, makes me skeptical in

517
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 7: terms of how is that information going to come through?

518
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 7: Is it going to come through all that gracefully? And

519
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 7: is it going to violate the kind of aesthetic mission

520
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 7: of the rest of the movie.

521
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to do the big the Big

522
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: Short where you have a famous movie star journey up

523
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: to explain in history midway through the film.

524
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 6: Not a not a good choice.

525
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 7: Yes, that's a different it's unfair to the Big Short

526
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 7: quite well in that movie.

527
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 6: Okay, the one good movie from that phase of his scorer.

528
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: But we should talk about the performances in this film,

529
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: which I think I think I really talked to bottom

530
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary and not necessarily if you're casting us of

531
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, you know, Sam Waterston was certainly a name,

532
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: but you know it wasn't wasn't a huge name, and

533
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: casting hangars nor who one best supporting actor was not

534
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: name at all, wasn't even an actor before doing this,

535
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's a really extraordinary performance

536
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: from someone if you look at his biography, you know

537
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: there's so much overlap with def Prahn's experiences as well,

538
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: to the point where they both pretended to be taxi

539
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: drivers as to to hide their educated background at one point.

540
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: But nor was a It.

541
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 6: Was a doctor.

542
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean, credit is doctor Hangos Nora. I believe in

543
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: the opening credits. It's an intense work. It must, you know,

544
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: I can't imagine revisiting it your own life so or

545
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: something so close to your own life so directly could

546
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: have been an easy experience for him, right.

547
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 7: No, I think he's you know, I think that it's

548
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 7: plain enough when you watch the film, like who the

549
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 7: professional actors are? You know he is he's not a

550
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 7: professional actor, but he's got a great face, you know,

551
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 7: and and and and I think you know, the emotions

552
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 7: when he is asked to express them are just so

553
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 7: they just ring it so authentically to I mean, you know,

554
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 7: because he gets I think, some of the biggest, most important,

555
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 7: most emotional moments in the movie, and and all of

556
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 7: those come across quite powerfully, even even if as an

557
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 7: actor he's not as nearly, of course, as polished as

558
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 7: the Waterston and John Malkovich and Julian Sands and everyone

559
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 7: else around him Crank.

560
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: T Nelson, Crank Nelson perfectly cas.

561
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like Athel Foodguard turns up as the like

562
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 3: playing piano in the Embassy and Spaulding Gray of course,

563
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: I mean I was, I was watching. I think I

564
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 3: might have seen this movie, like, I mean, not certainly

565
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 3: when it when it came out, but at some point

566
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: during my intense spawling Gray swimming to Cambodia phase. You know,

567
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: that whole Spawling Gray monologue is based upon him going

568
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 3: there to shoot you know what ends up being sort

569
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: of one scene as a US government attache that's in

570
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 3: like the first five minutes, and he has a whole

571
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: thing about you know, the trouble remembering the sort of

572
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 3: you know, gobbledygook line and inevitably watching this movie now.

573
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just sort of sitting there doing like

574
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: the Leonardo DiCaprio or like pointing meme when he gets

575
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: to that line, that's the one for the show. So

576
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: it's very exciting. But but yeah, I think Hangnor gives it.

577
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: I mean, it is a great performance in this. I

578
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: think what you're saying is right, you know, it does

579
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: he he does kind of have a great face. I

580
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: think he actually kind of conveys the emotion really well.

581
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: Some of his dialogue frankly is like a little hard

582
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: to you know, understand at the beginning, and I think

583
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 3: that sort of underlines, you know, one of the things

584
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: that sort of troubles my relationship with this film is

585
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: that it's a movie about, you know, what's our relationship

586
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: to this what is this presumed and largely kind of

587
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: Western audience for this movie, what is our relationship with

588
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: the story? Who are we identifying with? And that you know,

589
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: that becomes like a theme of the movie too, as

590
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: Sidney Schamberg kind of gets to go back to New

591
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: York and when his Pulitzer and Desprawn is is you know,

592
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: through probably no fault of his stuck in Cambodia for years,

593
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: but it does you know the fact that you know,

594
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: large part of acting is like of bringing the audience

595
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: in through your eyes, making people, you know, not just

596
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: feel what you're experiencing, but by kind of communicating it

597
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: to them. And I do you know it just it

598
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: puts us in a different relationship to his character than

599
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: it does to the Americans, and who us is in

600
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: that sentence, we can you know trouble that question as well.

601
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: But I do think it's like it's a factor that

602
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: I keep sort of turning over in my mind as

603
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about this movie.

604
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 5: There's almost kind of an innocence to the way he's portrayed,

605
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 5: especially compared to the cynicism of characters like like Sydney

606
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 5: or al rockof you know. And I think that's very

607
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 5: effective in terms of building the relationship between Sydney and

608
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 5: death Prawn and sort of making it, I guess believable

609
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 5: that they would care so much about each other. But

610
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 5: it also I don't know, I think I see what

611
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 5: you're getting at, Sam, with that character just being a

612
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 5: maybe just a hair two loving or trusting or just

613
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 5: optimistic toward towards Sydney, you know, in a situation that

614
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 5: is dangerous to him in a way that it is

615
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: not to Sydney. And it feels a little imbalanced, not

616
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: just in the performance, but how that performance affects the

617
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: characterization and how those characterizations affect the relationship. So I mean,

618
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 5: it's still a great performance, and there is just like

619
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 5: a kind of a beautiful openness to that performance, but

620
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 5: it does maybe skew the relationship of those two characters

621
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 5: in a way that feels a little off.

622
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: The thing that's stuck with me is during the Khmer

623
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: sequence towards the end of the movie, where that you know, again,

624
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: like the dialogue isn't subtitled, and there often isn't that

625
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: much of it because the commers are mostly communicating with

626
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: people by putting guns at them and telling them to

627
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: do stuff. The closest we get we get a kind

628
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: of narration there, which is in the form of these

629
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 3: letters that Deth Brawn is narrating to Schamberg. And he's

630
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: clearly not writing and sending these things, So I'm not

631
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 3: entirely clear whether these you's just sort of imagining these,

632
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: But he says at two separate points, he says, I

633
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: miss you Sydney, and I miss my wife and children,

634
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: and I just that order feels backwards.

635
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 5: Yes, I had the exact same reaction to that line.

636
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 5: There's the romance feels a little forced at times here.

637
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, though I guess there is kind of

638
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 7: an intimacy, kind of like in the Uh they call it.

639
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 7: It's sort of in the trenches kind of thing happening

640
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 7: here where you're where where you see it in war

641
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 7: movies and you would see it. I guess among journalists

642
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 7: who are who are working together under circumstances like these,

643
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 7: there's this there's a special bond between them that that

644
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 7: is can achieve that level of importance and intimacy given

645
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 7: the circumstances. And I think there's you know, one thing

646
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 7: other thing I do kind of like about this character,

647
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 7: the dynamic between him and sid is I think there

648
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 7: are there are actually moments where where he's where he's

649
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 7: kind of one of the guys and and you know,

650
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 7: they're at the French embassy and they can share a laugh,

651
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 7: all the four of them together. But then there are

652
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 7: also moments where it's where where you you really feel

653
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 7: their differences and really feel like the you know, the

654
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 7: personal stake, the fact that he is Cambodian and and

655
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 7: Sidney is American, and they're going to always be fundamentally

656
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 7: different in that in that way and have much have

657
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 7: different stakes. I mean, there's there's is committed as these

658
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 7: journalists are to putting themselves in danger and covering this

659
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 7: important story, they are still just tourists of this place

660
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 7: and and and can leave and can get through most

661
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 7: of the time on on on their press pass and

662
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 7: that's not really the case with him.

663
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 5: I think maybe this is the point to talk about

664
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: the whole passport see stuff where Sidney, along with Al

665
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 5: and John Swain a brit kind of team up to

666
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 5: forge a British passport. It's It's an exciting sequence and

667
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 5: one that I think maybe only makes sense if you

668
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 5: actually know how analog photography works. So I wonder how

669
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 5: it would play to a slightly younger viewer in that respect.

670
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: We should like, we should do like most YouTube videos

671
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: where they make young people listen to famous songs for

672
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: the first time, you should do that.

673
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 4: Looks the scene, right, you know? Context wise? You know

674
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: that though you're all right, you know.

675
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't entirely know all that. I know,

676
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 3: there's like the paper fogs in this point, and there's

677
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 3: Developer and there's Fixer and whatever. I don't know how

678
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: do these things work? You know, I just know, like

679
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: you you know whatever, like in the serial Killer show,

680
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 3: like the guy puts the thing in the bath and

681
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: the creepy red lights and that it slowly develops and

682
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: the person's eyes are ext out or whatever. But yeah, no,

683
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: I think it sort of explains itself and as it

684
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: goes along and this, I mean, I think this is

685
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: a great sequence. Again, it's it's sort of the tools

686
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 3: of journalism in this case al Rakos camera being used

687
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: to hopefully kind of dummy up this passport photo that

688
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 3: they can use too because they're kicking all the Cambodians

689
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: out of the embassy, only you know, Westerners are going

690
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: to be allowed to stay. So there they've found this

691
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: passport that they can doctor to have a non Cambodian

692
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: name on it, but they need to get his photo

693
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 3: in there. That means they need to take his photo

694
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 3: and there's no you know, film, let alone chemicals anyway,

695
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 3: so they have to just kind of search the whole

696
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: embassy to do that and then they you know, finally

697
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: get the photo and they you know, get it all

698
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 3: the checkpoint and then you know, the photo the film

699
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: has fogged at that point, it just goes gray. And

700
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: that's the sort of the punctuation to that sequence, And

701
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: I think it takes that the bones of something that

702
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: really happened. Apparently they just what happened in real life

703
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 3: is they just went to the French checkpoint and they

704
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, this is a fake and it's not

705
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: going to stand up so you can't go through, and

706
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 3: they add a little kind of movie magic to it.

707
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: But I think I think deepens the ideas in the

708
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 3: film and makes a little bit of a suspense sequence

709
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: out of it without trivializing the you know, actually true

710
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: of what's going on. I think that's you know, one

711
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: of the most effective parts of the film for me.

712
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree, Sam.

713
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 7: I really love that sequence, just the detail of it,

714
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 7: the urgency of it, you know, the ex you know,

715
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 7: and just like the stakes and just you know, just

716
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 7: how all of them are scrambling so desperately to make

717
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 7: something happen because they they they know what the alternative

718
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 7: is and uh and of course our crestfallen when when

719
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 7: when they can't pull it off. I thought, all that,

720
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 7: that's that's great, great filmmaking, and it did actually didn't

721
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 7: know until you just said, what the what actually happened.

722
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 7: But it does feel again, like like you say, a

723
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 7: probably a solid use of dramatic license to uh do

724
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 7: the sequence like they did it, and to return briefly

725
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 7: to Hangnor's performance, you know what Diaf Prawn is doing

726
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 7: during that whole sequence is just like kind of practicing

727
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 7: this name and trying you know, like doing doing his part,

728
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 7: you know, and he's like kind of separate from the

729
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 7: rest of them, you know, during this this whole little sequence.

730
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 5: But the sort of the the button on it when

731
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 5: it is, you know, when Sydney has to tell him

732
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 5: it's not going to work, and death Pron is like,

733
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 5: I forget what the what the name was? What the

734
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 5: false name Brewer or something like that. It's yeah, wow,

735
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 5: good good recall. Yeah yeah, well, I mean I guess

736
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 5: he did say it about like fifteen times in the

737
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 5: course of five minutes, so maybe that's just very poor

738
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 5: recall on my part. But yeah, like in him just like,

739
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 5: you know, very proudly being like I got it, and

740
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 5: Sidney being like, no, you know, it didn't didn't work.

741
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 5: It's just a really great meeting of those two performance

742
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 5: styles we're kind of talking about, and the I guess

743
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 5: genuineness and open heartedness of death Pron's characterization in that

744
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 5: moment just it really makes it hit hard.

745
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: I think the one scene where we get a slightly

746
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: different side of death Pron is when he is talking

747
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: to the Khmara Rouge soldiers and to get his when

748
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: they're all captured and to get his Western friends out

749
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: and like, you know, obviously we know he's not, but

750
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: in the moment, there's at least there's a possibility that

751
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: that he is just you know, selling them out to

752
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: save his own skin and just kind of siding with

753
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: it because he's speaking in a language that they do

754
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: not know and kind of chumming it up with with

755
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: the other, with the with the Khmara rouge people, you know,

756
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: next to the Coca Cola bottles, in just one moment

757
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: where he's not just doesn't look like just this you know,

758
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: sort of innocent outsider. They're the outsiders at that point.

759
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 6: Uh.

760
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: And that's I think that's an interesting bit of perspective

761
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:36,479
Speaker 1: to have in that.

762
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: Movie, right, because I mean the the I mean the relationship.

763
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: I mean, from what I understand of it. Obviously I'm

764
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: not a war correspondent, and I just you know, sit

765
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: at home and watch movies. But my understanding of you know,

766
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 3: the relationship between like a war correspondent and their local

767
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: you know, fixer translator guide asm and is incredibly intimate

768
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: and important one on these people. Not only obviously they

769
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: translate for them, they make connections for them, they do

770
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 3: refers to himself you know in this movie, as you know,

771
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: he says, I'm a journalist too, And they do, you know,

772
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 3: perform a lot of those functions. They don't you know,

773
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 3: file copy back to the home office. But they are

774
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: often the ones out sort of connecting with sources because

775
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 3: they can have those communications and they're also a survival tool,

776
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 3: you know. And that's a moment where you really do

777
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: have the sense that, Okay, it's great that you have

778
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: an American passport and you work for the New York Times,

779
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 3: but that is not necessarily going to stop these guys

780
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 3: from throwing you in prison or worse. It's really it

781
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: is sort of the quick wit and you know whatever

782
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 3: whatever negotiation pron is working out in that scene that

783
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 3: keeps all those people safe and alive.

784
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 6: I mean, she talked to us about what directive film

785
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 6: this is.

786
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean it is, I mean, rolling Jeffy's career after

787
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: this was has a lot of strange ups and downs

788
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: mixed it. Other movie with Tavid Putnam called The Mission,

789
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: which I think I remember people like I've saw it.

790
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 6: A long time ago. I can't really remember that much.

791
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: About it, to be honest, but I mean it's you know,

792
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: I think he never really quite recovers from doing his

793
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: version of the Scarlet Letter.

794
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, what you're saying up, You're saying ups and downs.

795
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 7: I'm just thinking what were the ups?

796
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: Again?

797
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: Well, at one point Batman and Little Boy people like

798
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: well enough, but like at one point he made a

799
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: movie about the fake lesbian Russian pop act Tattoo. It's

800
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: a very odd career, but here at least, you know,

801
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: this is this is uh, you know, I can't really

802
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 1: asked for better, you know, sense of visuals.

803
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 6: He's at Chris Benjes, He's a great cinematographer.

804
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: But but like just the rhythms of the things, it's

805
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: really quite a well well made film. I mean, you know,

806
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: it's somewhat ahead of its time. I was like, again,

807
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: it's not a Vietnam movie, but it's somewhat ahead of

808
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: its time in depicting the recent conflicts in in in

809
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: the in Southeast Asia as well, and in a way

810
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: that felt true to the experiences of those who were there.

811
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: And it is really for me. I mean, this is

812
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: a movie that kind of came along. This and the

813
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: mission kind of came along as I was, you know,

814
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: kind of just starting to be aware of an interested

815
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: in like some movies for for grown ups, and I

816
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: at least, I mean, I definitely did not watch this

817
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: movie when it came out, because I think I was

818
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 3: still either an elementary or middle school but I knew

819
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: it was there, you know, and i'd seen Sure It's

820
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: a Fire, which David Putnam produced, and I did. I

821
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: did see the mission at some point also maybe later on,

822
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 3: but I just understood that these were kind of like

823
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: movies to aspire to even wanting to see and understand

824
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 3: and watching it now, you know, I think it has

825
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: significant flaws and whatnot, but but it's a it is

826
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: a sort of well made, you know, pretty robustly budgeted. Certainly,

827
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: the you know, the Thailand or the Commitrors scenes which

828
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 3: are shot in Thailand have you know, hundreds of extras

829
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: in them, which really gives you a sense of the

830
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: scale of what the Commurrors were doing. You know. It's

831
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 3: about sort of you know American uh, you know, conduct

832
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: and the geopolitical spirits about the responsibility of journalists, all

833
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,479
Speaker 3: still like very important issues. And I was just trying

834
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: to think, we'll watching this, like, when was the last

835
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 3: time I saw a movie that dealt with any of

836
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 3: this stuff that was you know, made for like more

837
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 3: than a couple of million dollars and seen by twelve

838
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: people at Sundance. Just this whole sort of sphere of

839
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: movie seems to have just kind of, you know, the

840
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 3: dial has really like been turned down to zero, and

841
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: I think that is a pretty big bummer.

842
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 7: September five would be would be the one I would

843
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 7: kind of point out as something that weirdly put out,

844
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 7: came out last year via Paramount Pictures, and that it

845
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 7: felt out of place and was also something where the

846
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 7: analog nature of the of of the media was a

847
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 7: big part of the movie, just as it kind of

848
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 7: is a little bit in the Killing Fields. But that's

849
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 7: certainly an exception to the rule, not something you would expect,

850
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 7: you know, studios to have anything the modest modern studios

851
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 7: to touch now.

852
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: I think also in terms of depicting in recent history,

853
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of attempts to depict the war

854
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: in Iraq in Afghanistan that just did not connect with

855
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: the public at all for whatever reason. And you know,

856
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: sometime those were quite good, I mean, and one of them,

857
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, the hert Locker won an Oscar without really

858
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: being that widely seen either so I think there's sort

859
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: of a as with all things recently, it's just it's

860
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: just there's there's not a lot of you know, commercial

861
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of appetite to pursue, soing that's

862
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: not going to be commercial. But in this case, specifically

863
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: after after you know a lot of you know, money

864
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: losing ventures, so I don't know and anything.

865
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 7: Well, the other thing too is like where is the

866
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 7: appetite for consuming this stuff as news?

867
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 4: And it's something that this is.

868
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 7: Something we're going to be able to get into next

869
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 7: week when we talk about know their land is just

870
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 7: is like people not only don't want to see it

871
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 7: at the movies, it's very hard to call their attention

872
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 7: to important news that is, you know, that they should

873
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 7: know right now and and be concerned about, and so

874
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 7: things that that are that are urgent and important to

875
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 7: the journalists of the characters in the Killing Fields, it's

876
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 7: all about kind of grabbing the attention of those who

877
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 7: would rather keep their eyes closed to these things.

878
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: And it does seem like a great thing to talk

879
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: about in the next episode, which means maybe we should

880
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: wind this particular portion of this episode down. Well, we're

881
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 1: talking about the killing Fields again next week. In the meantime,

882
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: let's take a short break and after that we'll be

883
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: back to read some feedback from our listeners. Now it's

884
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: time for feedback. Before we get to it, we want

885
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: to give a shout out to film Spotting in the

886
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: next Picture Shows Mothership podcast hosted by Adam Kempinar and

887
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: Josh Larson. As we record this, Adam and Josh just

888
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: released Sarah, can you guess which which how many episodes

889
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: it's been? I'll tell you is it a thousandths? A

890
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: thousandth episode? That's amazing?

891
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 5: It's wild.

892
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

893
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: Greeting the script, Keith, congrats guys. It's it's great, you know,

894
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: and and you know you're doing great work as always

895
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: and best I can tell from the from the episode description.

896
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: I haven't listened to it yet. It's it's basically a

897
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: normal episode, just car carrying on to this is a

898
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: being being film Spotting. I love it, so all right,

899
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: ask for feedback. We felt the others less of unanswered questions,

900
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: and one of our listeners wrote in with an answer

901
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: to one of those questions, Scott, can you read that letter?

902
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 7: Sure, Meg writes, loved listening to your conversation. About the

903
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 7: others one of my favorites, so I had to weigh

904
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 7: in on the question that came up in the episode

905
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 7: of whether the children in Life really had an allergy

906
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 7: to light. I think we're meant to accept that the

907
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 7: children absolutely did have this condition in life, based on

908
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 7: the fact that at the end of the movie, after

909
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 7: they've accepted their current condition, Anne looks into the finally

910
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 7: sunny window and tells her mother that quote, it doesn't

911
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 7: hurt anymore. I took that to refer to actual pain

912
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 7: that Anne experienced and remembered. If Anne had been gas lit,

913
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 7: I think she'd have just said that it didn't hurt period. Also,

914
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 7: given what we know of Anne, I believe the diagnosis

915
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 7: would have been another bone of contention between her and

916
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 7: her mother, with Anne wanting to test her reaction to

917
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 7: light herself. Instead, Anne's just as strict about protecting herself

918
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 7: from sunlight as her mother is, even reminding her of

919
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 7: the rules when her mother forgets them. In fact, I've

920
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 7: always thought that their condition contributed to Grace's eventual breakdown.

921
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 7: It was another thing in life that she made it

922
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 7: her duty to control far beyond what was necessary, Because

923
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 7: why would children of this age need to be locked

924
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 7: in and out of rooms when they already avoid bright

925
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 7: light on their own. It's fitting that her children were

926
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 7: ultimately suffocated by their mother physically as well as metaphorically.

927
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 7: You also couldn't get the children wet or feed them

928
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 7: after midnight.

929
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 5: That wasted.

930
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 4: That was something they didn't tell you and the others.

931
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: But it's a novelization if I understand correctly.

932
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah.

933
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 5: I also just want to jump in here and note

934
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 5: that in Meg's letter she calls the condition porphyria, not

935
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 5: an allergy to light, which I did not know was

936
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: what this condition was called. So that led me down

937
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 5: a very interesting wiki hole. So you know, it's not

938
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 5: exactly an allergy to light. I think that's just like

939
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 5: kind of the shorthand.

940
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 4: Letters. I'm not saying that.

941
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 5: Word, but I mean, I think most listeners probably don't

942
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 5: know exactly what profheria is. I mean, I even be

943
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 5: pronouncing it right, apologies if I'm not, But it is

944
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 5: what I learned in my little wiki dive. It is

945
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 5: a genetic condition, which I think kind of aligns with

946
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 5: both siblings having it, which is kind of one of

947
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 5: the elements I wondered about as far as like how

948
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 5: quote unquote real it was. But I think Meg's argument

949
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 5: here is sound, especially that it doesn't hurt anymore underlining

950
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 5: that well, and the suffocation metaphor of that is also

951
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 5: nicely underlined by May.

952
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: I was swayed by that argument that that that makes

953
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: sense to me.

954
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 4: How long has it been since you see the others? Sam?

955
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: I have not seen it since it came out, But

956
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: I am curious if y'all have actually read the novelization

957
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 3: of Gremlins, because.

958
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: I I used to read all the novelizations.

959
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

960
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: One of my great movie going regrets is that, for

961
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: some reason that I I don't even know why, I

962
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: decided I can't see you Return of the Jedi yet.

963
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: I can't see it for a couple of days, but

964
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 1: I'll take that time to read the novelization of Return

965
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: of the Jedi and thus have every twist in that

966
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: film spoiled for me.

967
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 6: Why Why did I do that?

968
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 4: Sam?

969
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 3: I will say only that I uh, only I remember

970
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 3: one entire chapter from the Gremlins novelization, because they have

971
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 3: the whole uh scene where the guy they get the

972
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 3: Gremlins from the Magua from you know, gives them the

973
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 3: whole list of things and just you know, don't feed

974
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 3: them after it and they don't get them wet, don't forget.

975
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 3: End of chapter. Next chapter is two words Pete forgot,

976
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: So I have stayed in my brain for like forty years.

977
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: Instead of useful information.

978
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 6: It's useful entertaining.

979
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: You know people, when you're guesting on podcasts, well, we

980
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: always let's appreciate it with our listeners, feed us after

981
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: midnight and or share their thoughts and their recommendations. If

982
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: you feel so inclined, we can feature your response on

983
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: a future episode. To reach us, you can leave a

984
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine

985
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: seven three zero or email us at comments at Next

986
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: Picture Show dot net. That's it for this episode of

987
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 1: The Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll talk

988
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 1: about no Other Land before bringing the killing fields back

989
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: into discussion. Look for that episode next Tuesday on your

990
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: podcast or choice. For ad free versions of the podcast

991
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: and extra content, find us at Patreon at Patreon dot com.

992
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: Slash the Next Picture Show. You can find us at

993
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show dot net and I'm blue Sky at

994
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: the X Picture Show. If you want to keep track

995
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: of when new episodes drop we'll be back again next week.

996
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: I got nothing funny.

997
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 4: I got money. You can't do you can't do it.

998
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 4: I joke about imagine, about about the use of imagine.

999
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 7: Nam