Speaker 1: One of the things you said in the past, Jamel,
Speaker 1: is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape.
Speaker 2: Off because strength and black women have become synonymous. And
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be
Speaker 2: a crippling thing in the sense that we assume that
Speaker 2: we always have to wear this cape, and that if
Speaker 2: we're not always the model of strength, then we're somehow
Speaker 2: being imperfect. We also don't want to fall into the
Speaker 2: trap of always thinking that we have to be somebody
Speaker 2: else's savior, because sometimes the person that needs the most
Speaker 2: saving is us. And what I loved about our relationship
Speaker 2: is like, my husband's a great communicator, and even though
Speaker 2: I might be in media, while I can certainly communicate,
Speaker 2: I think it's always been difficult for me to communicate vulnerability,
Speaker 2: for me to be comfortable in that soft place. But
Speaker 2: when you have trust in your partner, it's easy to
Speaker 2: be vulnerable. And so because I have such trust in him,
Speaker 2: it's easy for me to do that.
Speaker 1: That was Jamel Hill, courageous journalist and unapologetic truth teller,
Speaker 1: describing her relationship with her husband Ian Wallace, and the
Speaker 1: freedom she's found in finally laying down the weight of
Speaker 1: always having to be the strong one. I'm Andrea Waters
Speaker 1: King and this is My Legacy hosted by me, my
Speaker 1: husband Martin Luther King, IID and our good friends Mark.
Speaker 3: Kilberger and Craig Kilberger.
Speaker 1: Today, Jamel and her husband take us deep into the
Speaker 1: kind of love that heals, the strength it takes to
Speaker 1: rewrite your story, and the wisdom that only comes after
Speaker 1: the storm. This conversation is filled with truth, insight, and
Speaker 1: takeaways that just might shift how you show up in
Speaker 1: your own life. And don't worry, We've also got Jamel's
Speaker 1: top dating dues and don'ts for women and for men,
Speaker 1: and the sports argument that this couple will never ever resolve.
Speaker 3: Let's dive in.
Speaker 4: Welcome to My Legacy. For our new listeners and viewers,
Speaker 4: this isn't your typical solo celebrity interview. This is the
Speaker 4: show where remarkable people pull back the curtain and bring
Speaker 4: along the one person who has seen it all, the highs,
Speaker 4: the lows, the heartbreaks, the one who knows the full,
Speaker 4: unfiltered story. And today we're joined by someone who has
Speaker 4: never backed down from saying what needed to be said.
Speaker 4: Jamel Hill is a trailblazing, award winning sports journalist podcast hosts,
Speaker 4: author and unapologetic truth teller. Whether she's calling a game
Speaker 4: or calling out injustice, her take is always sharp, fearless,
Speaker 4: and fiercely her own. Jamel, would you mind introducing us
Speaker 4: to your best, your favorite, your plus one who you
Speaker 4: brought here today?
Speaker 2: Well, thank you number one for that incredible intro. And
Speaker 2: the person that I brought with me today is somebody
Speaker 2: who and helped my mother. Won't take this personally, but
Speaker 2: probably knows me better than anybody, but who knows me
Speaker 2: the best, and who has seen me through so many
Speaker 2: ups and downs and also understands my vulnerabilities, which is
Speaker 2: very important to me because those are the things I
Speaker 2: have the most trouble.
Speaker 5: Showcasing and highlighting.
Speaker 2: My support system, my rock, someone who I think has
Speaker 2: the highest integrity of probably any person that I know.
Speaker 2: So I brought with me my wonderful, beloved, sexy, handsome husband,
Speaker 2: Ian Wallace.
Speaker 6: That for intro.
Speaker 7: I love it.
Speaker 1: By the time you did both of those, By the
Speaker 1: time you, I mean she introduced Ian and introduced her,
Speaker 1: I feel like saying amen.
Speaker 3: All around.
Speaker 4: All our listeners are now putting down the podcast and
Speaker 4: putting on the video version.
Speaker 6: They're like, what does he look like?
Speaker 8: You know, we all love love stories and we all
Speaker 8: want to hear if redtail Jimille, can you tell us
Speaker 8: how you all story began the two of you.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure you asked this question enough to know
Speaker 2: that when you're speaking with a couple, both people have
Speaker 2: different versions of how this actually happened.
Speaker 7: The truth, I actually tell the truth.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, it's true.
Speaker 2: And somehow it feels like when men tell their side
Speaker 2: of the story. It's also grossly embellished on a lot
Speaker 2: of accounts.
Speaker 5: So this was twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: I was still at ESPN and I had a daily
Speaker 2: sports discussion show called Numbers Never Lie. And I came
Speaker 2: back to Michigan State where I went to school. My
Speaker 2: husband also went to Michigan State as well, but we
Speaker 2: went at different times.
Speaker 5: They asked me to be the homecoming.
Speaker 2: Ambassador, if you will, like, so I had to go
Speaker 2: back be in the parade, you know, do all all
Speaker 2: those that kind of homecoming stuff.
Speaker 5: And so I went back there.
Speaker 2: The show came there as well, just as a as
Speaker 2: a support thing, and so you know, I was on
Speaker 2: campus for the weekend and going around to different tailgates.
Speaker 5: This is game day, went to a tailgate.
Speaker 2: It was the Black Alumni tailgate, one of my favorite
Speaker 2: tailgates to go to when I go to a Michigan
Speaker 2: State football game. And I was there talking to someone.
Speaker 2: It was actually and it turned out to be a
Speaker 2: friend of my husband's and I didn't even know him then,
Speaker 2: and I was talking to him when my husband came up.
Speaker 2: And as soon as he came up and started talking
Speaker 2: to his friend, I immediately noticed, he's fine.
Speaker 5: So like, I'm not gonna lie like it was officially I.
Speaker 6: Loved you and smile. He's not saying anything. He's just
Speaker 6: sitting there smiling.
Speaker 7: So far, so far?
Speaker 5: Okay, do I have this correct? All right? So I
Speaker 5: was like, he's fine, Where did he come from? I'm
Speaker 5: gonna continue this conversation.
Speaker 2: So the three of us started to talk and there
Speaker 2: was definitely some flirty eye energy.
Speaker 5: Between me and my husband.
Speaker 2: I just sort of left things there because I had
Speaker 2: other homecoming duties that I had to do and I
Speaker 2: did not expect to see him again. Well, fast forward
Speaker 2: to a few hours later. They have a big party
Speaker 2: the Black Michigan say Black Alumni. They host a big
Speaker 2: party for homecoming weekend. I went to the party, and
Speaker 2: sure enough I'm at the party. I look across the
Speaker 2: dance floor and my husband is standing right there, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, the fine guy from the tailgate.
Speaker 2: You know, so I energy this is This is just
Speaker 2: a little aside, a pro tip for ladies out there.
Speaker 5: I energy works.
Speaker 2: You send the right eye energy, the right body language.
Speaker 5: You can just bring them on to you. Okay.
Speaker 2: So I looked at him and I gave him that
Speaker 2: I energy like, I need you to come over here.
Speaker 5: And he came over.
Speaker 2: He got my number, and the rest, as they say,
Speaker 2: is history. More importantly too, pro tip for men who
Speaker 2: are listening. He called me the next day. It wasn't
Speaker 2: like he waited. He didn't, you know, hold it out
Speaker 2: for a week to try to see you know, you know, yeah, cool,
Speaker 2: he didn't.
Speaker 5: He called me the next day. Eye energy, yep ie energy.
Speaker 1: And when you see something, say something right. So, in
Speaker 1: other words, call the next day. Don't don't play your
Speaker 1: follow up. Don't play let her forget you follow up.
Speaker 1: There's no need to play games with the grown woman.
Speaker 5: No, And so, babe, did I get that right?
Speaker 7: Mostly true?
Speaker 9: You forgot to mention love at first sight, not for me.
Speaker 7: For her.
Speaker 5: Saying, it's always always got to put a little extra
Speaker 5: on it.
Speaker 4: Well, okay, we got to hear your side of the story.
Speaker 4: Love at first sight. What did you first see when
Speaker 4: you saw her with and most importantly, when did.
Speaker 3: You fall hard?
Speaker 9: What was an instant connection when we first seen each other.
Speaker 9: So it was crazy that we didn't exchange numbers and
Speaker 9: we left it to fate.
Speaker 7: So we seen each other that.
Speaker 9: That same night, and she was just shining on the
Speaker 9: dance floor. It was almost like a spotlight was on her,
Speaker 9: and I think Keisha Cole sent from Heaven was playing
Speaker 9: as I walked over.
Speaker 6: And if it wasn't, that's how it's always gonna be remembered.
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, yeah, it sounds good.
Speaker 6: Sounds good.
Speaker 9: But you know, as we got to know each other
Speaker 9: and we talk more and more, it was it was
Speaker 9: just different. You know, she was truly a unicorn. You know,
Speaker 9: she was different from a lot of females that I
Speaker 9: had been with in the past, and she was just
Speaker 9: a breath of fresh air. So I struggled earlier. I
Speaker 9: didn't want to fall in love. I was trying not to.
Speaker 7: I was like, no, it's too soon.
Speaker 1: One of the things you said in the past, Jamil
Speaker 1: is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape off.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 1: I think there's so many women in general, and Black
Speaker 1: women in particular, that feel as if we have to
Speaker 1: be so strong for everyone and everything and to have
Speaker 1: a soft space. And it also ties into when you
Speaker 1: introduced him, you use the word vulnerable, that he allows
Speaker 1: you to be vulnerable.
Speaker 3: Can you just talk a little bit and share.
Speaker 1: With our listeners and unfold what that means to you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're exactly right that you know
Speaker 2: because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's
Speaker 2: not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a
Speaker 2: crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we
Speaker 2: always have to wear this cape, and that if we're
Speaker 2: not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.
Speaker 2: And while it's true that we certainly have to have
Speaker 2: our armor on, we certainly have to be ready for
Speaker 2: all the things that are coming at us. We also
Speaker 2: don't want to fall into the trap of always thinking
Speaker 2: that we have to be somebody else's savior, because sometimes
Speaker 2: the person that needs the most saving is us, and
Speaker 2: probably the best thing that we can do for ourselves
Speaker 2: is find people, a community, places where we don't always
Speaker 2: have to be the one that comes up with the solution,
Speaker 2: always have to be the one who sacrifices always, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't have to constantly put ourselves in that mode.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we say what kind of we save
Speaker 2: the democracy? Is like at some point, like we have
Speaker 2: to really save ourselves. And what I loved about our
Speaker 2: relationship is like my husband's a great communicator, and even
Speaker 2: though I might be in media, while I can certainly communicate,
Speaker 2: I think it has always been difficult for me to
Speaker 2: communicate vulnerability, for me to be comfortable in that soft
Speaker 2: place and just organically and naturally. It was never a
Speaker 2: conversation that we had, but it was through action and
Speaker 2: through communication that it was really easy for me to
Speaker 2: see that this was some place that I didn't have
Speaker 2: to always feel like I had to be the strong one.
Speaker 2: But when you have trust in your partner, it's easy
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. And so because I have such trust
Speaker 2: in him, it's easy for me to do that.
Speaker 1: So was it hard then for you to find that place?
Speaker 1: Because I think for so many women and we love
Speaker 1: being strong, it really is who we are. But to
Speaker 1: have that dance of also being vulnerable, you know again,
Speaker 1: like you know, we're out in the world, always say that,
Speaker 1: you know, we've shown up for this country, and now
Speaker 1: it's also time for the country to show up for us.
Speaker 1: And so for you to find that space also of
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, to have a place to fall into.
Speaker 3: Was that scary for you at first?
Speaker 5: Oh, it's terrifying. You know.
Speaker 2: Nobody goes willingly, you know, I don't want to make
Speaker 2: it seem like, you know, vulnerability knocked on the door
Speaker 2: and I was like, hi, I'm ready.
Speaker 5: Like no, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a process, as it is for a lot
Speaker 2: of women, especially if you you know, independent, been used
Speaker 2: to doing everything on your own and used to being
Speaker 2: your own savior, like it's hard to sometimes relinquish some
Speaker 2: of that. So then to me, the responsibility was on
Speaker 2: me to start to open up and to share that
Speaker 2: and to be more vulnerable with him, because he had
Speaker 2: shown me that he was more than capable of being
Speaker 2: the soft place, the landing, the place where I would
Speaker 2: feel that sense of comfort and peace. It was then
Speaker 2: on me to take my armor off, to take off,
Speaker 2: you know, my battle gear, and be that person with him.
Speaker 4: Well, Jamel, I love how you described the impact the
Speaker 4: relationship has on you, and if I could shift it
Speaker 4: back to you again, you know, if I could ask,
Speaker 4: what have you experienced being in that relationship with Jamel
Speaker 4: and how has it changed how you show up in a.
Speaker 9: Relationship well being with the woman who's strongest Jamail. I
Speaker 9: was never intimidated by it. It was actually something that
Speaker 9: I cherish, you know, just having a strong woman and
Speaker 9: being there for And there was a wall that was up,
Speaker 9: you know, initially when we met, but by trade, I'm
Speaker 9: a salesperson, so I asked a lot of questions and
Speaker 9: the questions were genuine.
Speaker 7: It was organic, you know.
Speaker 9: I wanted to know about her and you know, the
Speaker 9: different experiences that she had in her life and.
Speaker 7: Learning from her.
Speaker 9: And it was funny because I remember asking questions to
Speaker 9: her mom and she's like, why are you asking so
Speaker 9: many questions, and it's like, I just want to know.
Speaker 9: I'm just curious, you know, I want to know Jamel.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I think that's an underrated ability
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of women have experienced having
Speaker 2: interactions with men, especially if there's like some level of
Speaker 2: romantic interest where the men tend to talk more about
Speaker 2: themselves and it's okay to talk about yourself because I
Speaker 2: wanted to learn about you too.
Speaker 5: It is something that I always.
Speaker 2: Keep in the back of my mind that if i'm
Speaker 2: you know, if I'm on a date with a guy
Speaker 2: and he doesn't ask me a single question, I think that's.
Speaker 5: A bit of a pink flag.
Speaker 2: I'm like, he didn't ask me anything about myself, and
Speaker 2: he was so different because he asked me a lot
Speaker 2: of questions. And more importantly, I should say this because
Speaker 2: I've told this story before and I feel like now
Speaker 2: I have a chance to like fully clarify it is that,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things I loved about him
Speaker 2: is that he never asked me about work. All of
Speaker 2: the questions were about, you know, who I was, maybe
Speaker 2: how I grew up. You know, we have a lot
Speaker 2: of things in common. We're both from Detroit, so that
Speaker 2: was like a natural connection between us. We both went
Speaker 2: to Michigan State, another natural, you know, kind of connection.
Speaker 2: And so just getting the look to know the totality
Speaker 2: of who I am, because you know, when I was
Speaker 2: at ESPN and you're in such a high visible position,
Speaker 2: naturally a lot of men watch ESPN and they're very
Speaker 2: familiar with the personalities on ESPN, and it was always
Speaker 2: kind of irritating to me that if I was talking
Speaker 2: to a guy and he's asking me forty five questions
Speaker 2: about ESPN, like I, do you want to be on
Speaker 2: a date with ESPN?
Speaker 5: Or do you want to be on a date with me?
Speaker 2: Like, don't stop asking me about what Steven A. Smith
Speaker 2: is like, what Skip Baylor's is like, wasn't like to
Speaker 2: be on around the horn like I don't I don't
Speaker 2: you know? To me, that's not really getting to know me.
Speaker 2: That's getting to know my job.
Speaker 3: Pro tip number four.
Speaker 1: Now, we're gonna have like a after this, it'll be
Speaker 1: a one two three to now.
Speaker 3: Pro Tip number four to ask questions.
Speaker 2: Yes, man, ask questions, and don't you know, ask questions
Speaker 2: that lead you to understand who this person is. You know,
Speaker 2: asking how they grew up or you know how you
Speaker 2: know what we're what were your parents right like? And
Speaker 2: you know, asking about school and you know, and just
Speaker 2: generally getting some texture about what made them into the
Speaker 2: person that they are.
Speaker 10: In your earlier years as you were matriculating through your
Speaker 10: early years of the career, and particularly as as a
Speaker 10: black woman who were your mentors. Who were some of
Speaker 10: your mentors or war their mentors.
Speaker 5: I had a lot, you know.
Speaker 2: Of course, everybody you know is fortunate enough to have
Speaker 2: the people in their family be your earliest mentors. So
Speaker 2: I had my mother who certainly always stressing of education, who.
Speaker 5: Whether I liked it or not, she was always on
Speaker 5: me in terms of discipline.
Speaker 2: My grandmother, she also was a strong influence in my life.
Speaker 2: She originally from the South, from Kentucky, migrated to Detroit,
Speaker 2: you know, right before she started high school, and she
Speaker 2: went back and got her bachelor's degree. She already had
Speaker 2: three kids, and she was in her i think her
Speaker 2: mid thirties when she went and got her bachelor's degree
Speaker 2: from Wayne State University in Detroit. Spent her professional life
Speaker 2: working as a social worker for the state of Michigan.
Speaker 2: And so those were, you know, two strong women in
Speaker 2: my life who always stressed the importance of education, of
Speaker 2: building a life for myself, of upward mobility, and Detroit
Speaker 2: as a city, because percentage wise, is the black of
Speaker 2: city in America right now, and certainly because that's always
Speaker 2: been such a strong part of the identity of Detroit.
Speaker 5: Coming up through public schools in Detroit.
Speaker 2: The sense of identity that I had by the time
Speaker 2: I went to college was very strong. I was blessed
Speaker 2: and fortunate enough to have a lot of black teachers
Speaker 2: who poured into me, and certainly early on as I
Speaker 2: began showing an interest in writing, like I started my
Speaker 2: journalism path in high school. You know, I was very
Speaker 2: lucky to have started so early, and so my journalism teachers.
Speaker 2: In my memoir, it was a reason why I made
Speaker 2: sure that I acknowledged my teachers in the acknowledgment section,
Speaker 2: because teachers don't get enough credit number one, and a
Speaker 2: lot of times they don't know how sometimes their students
Speaker 2: turn out. And I think it's affirming for them to
Speaker 2: know that as much resistance as kids as we may
Speaker 2: give you that seeds are still being planted even as
Speaker 2: we're resisting. And you know, I think about my creative
Speaker 2: writing teacher I went to Mufford High School in Detroit, MS. Blackhawk,
Speaker 2: who I still email occasionally to this day. My journalism teacher,
Speaker 2: Miss Sebrim, other journalism teacher, missus Platt. I still know
Speaker 2: them because I remember the lessons that they taught me.
Speaker 5: So those were early mentors I love.
Speaker 6: That was so awesome to hear that.
Speaker 5: You gotta do it by name.
Speaker 2: And even now that I know them as adults, I
Speaker 2: cannot call them by their first name.
Speaker 5: It's like impossible for me to do this. You know,
Speaker 5: my middle school teacher, missus Johnson, and.
Speaker 2: You know my counselor, Miss Todd, Like I remember all
Speaker 2: of the people who were giving me that encouraged me
Speaker 2: planning those seeds. And when I first started working for
Speaker 2: the Detroit Free Press, the professional paper in Detroit and
Speaker 2: high school answering phones in the sports.
Speaker 5: Department, it was uh.
Speaker 2: They were one of the sports departments that actually had
Speaker 2: women who were reporters. And they took me on the
Speaker 2: sports staff, that is, and they took me under their wing.
Speaker 2: I mean, the first time I attended professional practice, my
Speaker 2: mentor John ed Howard, she took me. She was doing
Speaker 2: a big story on the Detroit Lions, on their former
Speaker 2: head coach Wayne Fonce, And that was the first time
Speaker 2: I got to see and fell practice and seeing her
Speaker 2: report and seeing her talk to different players. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes it may sound strange, but sometimes ignorance is bliss,
Speaker 2: just in the sense of I was too ignorant to
Speaker 2: know that sports journalism was something women weren't supposed to do.
Speaker 5: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Because so many people had given me the confidence that
Speaker 2: this was where I belonged. So by the time I
Speaker 2: started really making my way in the industry, and I
Speaker 2: looked around the room, and in most spaces, I was
Speaker 2: either the only black person, the only woman, and certainly
Speaker 2: the only black woman. I had enough confidence to know
Speaker 2: that even though this room looks like this, I belong
Speaker 2: here and.
Speaker 5: I have just as much of a right to be
Speaker 5: here as anybody else. So it was too late.
Speaker 2: They couldn't ruin my confidence by the end, right, So
Speaker 2: I was really fortunate that I had a long list
Speaker 2: of people who poured into me and who constantly affirmed that, hey,
Speaker 2: you're in the right place, You're doing the right thing,
Speaker 2: and you just have to simply keep going.
Speaker 1: Like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast, and most importantly,
Speaker 1: share this with someone who needs a reminder of their
Speaker 1: own strength today back in a moment, now back to
Speaker 1: my Legacy.
Speaker 4: You talk about courage, and I want to reflect on
Speaker 4: what that courage has meant, because you know, very famously
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, you called out President Trump's racism. You
Speaker 4: called out Jerry Jones his stance on players taking a knee,
Speaker 4: and that ultimately costs you your job. You know that
Speaker 4: that's courage. And so when you talk about courage, when
Speaker 4: you reflect back on that time, what did that teach
Speaker 4: you about your voice? What does that teach you about
Speaker 4: your values? And frankly, what did it teach you about
Speaker 4: your willingness to risk it all for what you believe in?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure a lot of people who have been
Speaker 2: in far more dangerous positions than that one, especially as
Speaker 2: you know, with you all being so intimately acquainted with
Speaker 2: the civil rights movement, is that you don't know if
Speaker 2: you're going to.
Speaker 5: Meet the moment until the moment find you. You have
Speaker 5: no idea.
Speaker 2: So if you would have asked me before that actually happened, Hey,
Speaker 2: if this was the scenario, what would you do? You
Speaker 2: think you know what you would do, You think you
Speaker 2: know how you might respond, but you don't really actually
Speaker 2: know until you're right there in the fire. And so
Speaker 2: all of the decisions that I made as the you know,
Speaker 2: White House called for me to be fired, as you know,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump singled me out on social media as that
Speaker 2: was happening. I mean, I'm making mental decisions in real time,
Speaker 2: and I had to sort of have a few moments
Speaker 2: with myself and saying like, Okay, if this results in
Speaker 2: you being fired, like right in this moment, what are
Speaker 2: you gonna do?
Speaker 5: Or if they put it on.
Speaker 2: The table, hey, either apologize to the president or you're
Speaker 2: gonna have to leave here.
Speaker 5: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 2: And I every think and every cell in my body
Speaker 2: was like, if they asked me to apologize to the president,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it. And I made that clear
Speaker 2: very early. I'm never apologizing to him. I said what
Speaker 2: I said, and we just got to live with that.
Speaker 2: The other part of it, too, is like knowing that, hey,
Speaker 2: if this is the end of the road right here.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't leave ESPN until a year later,
Speaker 2: and I'd left on my own terms, and if at
Speaker 2: the moment they had to make a business decision, I
Speaker 2: just I would have.
Speaker 5: Lived with it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it wouldn't feel good, especially given all the
Speaker 2: work that I put in to get to that point.
Speaker 2: And there's not many people who get the opportunity to
Speaker 2: anchor the six o'clock Sports Center, one of the sort
Speaker 2: of treasured time slots at ESPN, But if that was
Speaker 2: the result, that was the result. And at you know,
Speaker 2: when stuff like this happens, where your integrity and your
Speaker 2: character is questioned, you have to be able to live
Speaker 2: with yourself. And I would not have been able to
Speaker 2: live with myself had I capitulated in a way that
Speaker 2: I think would not have spoke to who authentically I am.
Speaker 2: So it was a lot of lessons that I've found
Speaker 2: out in real time and just because the situation was there,
Speaker 2: And I'm thankful for that, because when similar situations, maybe
Speaker 2: not always involving the President of the United States, but
Speaker 2: when other tests of your character, your integrity, when those
Speaker 2: things happen, it's muscle memory. Now you're confident because you've
Speaker 2: already done it. And I've done it at a level
Speaker 2: that most people don't get to do it at. And
Speaker 2: so when I'm in meetings or in determining business relationships
Speaker 2: and things pop up where you have to stand on something,
Speaker 2: I'm so much more comfortable doing that because I've already
Speaker 2: done it before. It's very similar to an athlete. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure Michael Jordan missed a lot of game winning
Speaker 2: shots before he actually made them, and when he finally
Speaker 2: made one, it became muscle memory, and then after that
Speaker 2: that dude was never losing. So I sort of approach
Speaker 2: it with the mentality that an athlete might.
Speaker 3: So even before that happened.
Speaker 1: Let's also go back to your beginning days of ESPN, because,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, you found yourself in rooms where
Speaker 1: you were, you know, most times, one, if not the
Speaker 1: only woman, you know, certainly probably probably the only black woman.
Speaker 1: So if we're talking about legacy on this show, you know,
Speaker 1: and you at ESPN early two thousands, you know that
Speaker 1: legacy is there. But you said about that time that
Speaker 1: it is both isolating and yet motivating. Can you share
Speaker 1: with our listeners a little bit by what you mean
Speaker 1: by that?
Speaker 2: So the isolating part is when I was a sports
Speaker 2: columnist at the Orlando Sentinel. This would have been in
Speaker 2: two thousand and five and most of two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: I was the only black female sports columnist at a
Speaker 2: daily newspaper in North America. And notice I didn't just
Speaker 2: say America, right, So that's one out of four hundred
Speaker 2: and five newspapers, And that is an embarrassing statistic for
Speaker 2: the profession of journalism, and a lot of people might
Speaker 2: have thought that that would have given me some sense
Speaker 2: of accomplishment.
Speaker 5: It did not.
Speaker 2: What it was communicating to me, and even worse, communicating
Speaker 2: to other women who might want to get in the business,
Speaker 2: is that your voices aren't necessary nor are they valued.
Speaker 2: And so that's the isolating part, and you know it
Speaker 2: also comes with a lot of scrutiny because you're the
Speaker 2: only one and a lot of black people have been
Speaker 2: in this situation in all industries. Is that when you're
Speaker 2: the only one, you then become the test case, right,
Speaker 2: So you have to carry yourself a certain way because
Speaker 2: you are living with the burden of if I mess up,
Speaker 2: no one else is coming after me.
Speaker 5: Black people aren't perfect, right.
Speaker 2: So it's like, if I make some junior mistakes or whatever,
Speaker 2: if that's the reason why you won't see value in
Speaker 2: black women having voices in the sports space, then that,
Speaker 2: to me reflects more on you than it does on me.
Speaker 2: So you're carrying all of this, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, getting to ESPN, a place that is considered
Speaker 2: to be for our profession at the very top, if
Speaker 2: you're in sports media, being the most powerful sports media
Speaker 2: company in America, then you know there's something to be
Speaker 2: celebrated by being able to advance and take that step
Speaker 2: and realize that all the hard work has brought you
Speaker 2: to this place and brought you to this sense of elevation.
Speaker 2: But it's always to me about who is able to
Speaker 2: come behind you. As a result, now, UESPN is in
Speaker 2: a very different position because they can hire whoever they want,
Speaker 2: and you look at their team picture and it's very
Speaker 2: diverse because they have a lot of women. And even
Speaker 2: before I got there, Robin Roberts was the one who
Speaker 2: set the table, you know, and so they've always had
Speaker 2: a steady pipeline of women of color and putting them
Speaker 2: in certain positions. Where I was a little bit different
Speaker 2: is that they were traditional anchors, and I was one
Speaker 2: of the few that were able to develop a foot
Speaker 2: hole and an imprint at ESPN by giving my opinion,
Speaker 2: by creating conversation based off my perspective and my experience
Speaker 2: that I had as a sports journalist over the course
Speaker 2: of many years. So I was very thrilled to be there,
Speaker 2: but I also was fully aware that if I walk
Speaker 2: into one more room and I'm the only one in there,
Speaker 2: that's not a good room. It's like I've never been
Speaker 2: one of those people. And there, unfortunately, are some people
Speaker 2: of color who are like this that they do.
Speaker 5: Want to be the only one in the room.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be the only one in the
Speaker 2: room because I don't know everything. I don't represent the
Speaker 2: entire totality of women of black women.
Speaker 5: I do not do that.
Speaker 2: And so it's important that we all you know, when
Speaker 2: we go in these rooms, that is not just about
Speaker 2: getting in the room. It's about getting in the room
Speaker 2: and kind of breaking it up and opening the door even.
Speaker 5: Wider so that more of us. So it's a you know,
Speaker 5: a flood of us coming in.
Speaker 1: I loved when Kamala Harris said upon accepting the vice presidency,
Speaker 1: I might be the first, but I won't be the last.
Speaker 3: I love that sentiment.
Speaker 1: And so here you are at you know, ESPN, you know,
Speaker 1: seemingly from the outside, you know, riding on top of
Speaker 1: the world. Then you had this unfair attack and this
Speaker 1: fall from where you had worked so hard to be.
Speaker 1: But throughout all of that Ian was there, and he,
Speaker 1: you know, walked with you through that storm and was
Speaker 1: always at your side. So my question is for you, Ian,
Speaker 1: and particularly for couples that are listening right now, and
Speaker 1: if they're going through the storm, they're watching someone that
Speaker 1: they love go through the storm. What advice would you
Speaker 1: have for couples walking that path.
Speaker 9: I believe communication is the key, you know, constant communication.
Speaker 9: When Jamel had when she was going through her storm,
Speaker 9: really first and foremost, I wanted to make sure that
Speaker 9: I was there and she felt my presence and she
Speaker 9: knew that she wasn't alone. We had a lot of
Speaker 9: good times and that was probably the most challenging part
Speaker 9: of our relationship up up to that point. So my
Speaker 9: biggest thing was making sure that she didn't feel alone,
Speaker 9: making sure that she felt my presence and we were
Speaker 9: going to get through this together. And naturally, I'm a fixer,
Speaker 9: so sometimes I have to dial that back because sometimes
Speaker 9: she may just want to vent and she just needs
Speaker 9: a listening ear versus you know, solution after solution. But
Speaker 9: my goal was to remain positive throughout the entire situation
Speaker 9: because I knew something good would come from it, and
Speaker 9: a lot of things came from it that were.
Speaker 7: Good on a positive note.
Speaker 9: So just positivity and communication would be my advice to
Speaker 9: any couples going through any type of turmoil.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I remember when I got suspended, So I
Speaker 2: had a two week suspension. I think I spent the
Speaker 2: first week with you, right, So I and you know
Speaker 2: that to me said a lot about our relationship. Is
Speaker 2: that My immediate instinct after I got suspended was I
Speaker 2: need to hop on the plane and I need to
Speaker 2: be with him, right because I knew that the comfort
Speaker 2: I was looking for, I knew the solace I was
Speaker 2: looking for. I knew all of that could be found
Speaker 2: in him. And you know that spoke volumes about our
Speaker 2: you know, relationship, and I know it probably wasn't the
Speaker 2: easiest from you in the sense of that. You know,
Speaker 2: here you have me being discussed on all these news channels,
Speaker 2: and you know he's also in the corporate world, so
Speaker 2: you have colleagues that are watching.
Speaker 9: Well. The challenge for me was, you know, under normal circumstances,
Speaker 9: if I was dating a regular woman, if she got
Speaker 9: into an issue with someone at work, I would just
Speaker 9: go up there and have a.
Speaker 7: Conversation with that.
Speaker 9: With it being the president of the United States, so
Speaker 9: it was a little handcom So it was a little
Speaker 9: challenging for me.
Speaker 7: So, and that's another thing.
Speaker 9: You know, we have fun, so making her laugh and
Speaker 9: just making her feel comfortable.
Speaker 4: I think what are for our viewers and listeners who
Speaker 4: might not know you as well.
Speaker 7: I don't think they would.
Speaker 4: Fully understand that your story is one of incredible courage,
Speaker 4: Like people would, I think, be surprised that you would
Speaker 4: take on the President of the United States until they
Speaker 4: actually understand more about your origin. You know, you wrote
Speaker 4: about your mom, you wrote about you know, families battling
Speaker 4: with addiction, you wrote about you know, the challenges that
Speaker 4: you overcame in your life and your origin story. Can
Speaker 4: you bring some of our our listeners more deeply into
Speaker 4: those moments that shaped who you were on just a
Speaker 4: very fundamental level and and what actually was I'm curious
Speaker 4: to aspast what was the hardest part to reveal that,
Speaker 4: to share that with people?
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted, you know, I wanted to be as
Speaker 2: transparent with the people reading as I when I sit
Speaker 2: across and interview people, as I want them to be
Speaker 2: with me. And I wanted to kind of leave it
Speaker 2: all out there because a lot of times, especially if
Speaker 2: people view you as being successful, they see the picture
Speaker 2: before them now, they don't see what it took to
Speaker 2: get to that, right, And so I think it's important
Speaker 2: to share that so that people understand that, listen, we're
Speaker 2: all going to face challenges, we all have some kind
Speaker 2: of trauma we're dealing with, but those are things that
Speaker 2: do not have to define your journey. And it was
Speaker 2: especially important for me to share the fact that, you know,
Speaker 2: I grew up in Detroit, growing up there, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a med seventies baby, So by the time I
Speaker 2: was coming of age, it's like, you know, that's when
Speaker 2: a lot of crime, a.
Speaker 5: Lot of drugs have really sieged on.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, you know, my father and also my mother,
Speaker 2: they battled through a drug addiction during a time where
Speaker 2: a lot of people in Detroit were battling with those
Speaker 2: same things. And you know, not just sort of the
Speaker 2: drug addiction having a particular legacy in my family, but
Speaker 2: also sexual trauma and sexual abuse as well, and so
Speaker 2: dealing with those issues early on in life were as
Speaker 2: debilitating as they could be at times for my mother
Speaker 2: in particular, they also were preparing me for a journey
Speaker 2: that I didn't even realize that I was going to
Speaker 2: be on. And so later on, you know, you fast
Speaker 2: forward to when I get into it with the President,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were you know naturally asking
Speaker 2: me like are you okay, and you know, how are
Speaker 2: you making it through? It was like, if you knew
Speaker 2: what I made through before I even got to this point,
Speaker 2: you would see why I laugh at that question. It's
Speaker 2: like it wouldn't even rank in the top twenty of
Speaker 2: worse things that I've been through. I mean, yes, it
Speaker 2: played out very publicly, and you know, there were some
Speaker 2: professional challenges I've had to overcome as a result, and
Speaker 2: to be frank still over having to overcome.
Speaker 5: Because he's back in office.
Speaker 2: So yeah, while having to deal with that, it did
Speaker 2: not compare to having to up close witness my mother
Speaker 2: battle a drug addiction, and so I wanted to make
Speaker 2: sure that I wrote very honestly about those moments because
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who deal with addiction
Speaker 2: in their family, and I wanted to hopefully for people
Speaker 2: remove the layer of shame, because there's nothing that you
Speaker 2: should feel ashamed of if you come from a background
Speaker 2: that is similar to the one that I came from.
Speaker 5: And because I do have that.
Speaker 2: Upbringing of being, you know, the child of addicts and
Speaker 2: seeing some of the things that I've seen, it gives
Speaker 2: me actually incredible perspective as a person and as a
Speaker 2: journalist as well, because I think as a journalist you're
Speaker 2: not very.
Speaker 5: Good if you can't write with empathy.
Speaker 2: And I think, as I've reported on a number of
Speaker 2: different stories, some in sports from outside of sports, I'm
Speaker 2: able to take that empathy into these different situations, and
Speaker 2: I think people give people who are reading or watching
Speaker 2: an honest reflection about the complications of life. So it's
Speaker 2: funny because when my mother and I did Red Table Talk,
Speaker 2: we kind of had this kind of back and forth
Speaker 2: about that because when I told her that the things
Speaker 2: she had gone through, you know, really I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: where I am if she hadn't gone through those But
Speaker 2: she sees it another way that is more of an
Speaker 2: indication of her failure.
Speaker 5: It's like you.
Speaker 2: Should not have had to have seen that to learn
Speaker 2: those lessons. You know, mothers obviously they always want to
Speaker 2: protect you, and I do understand why she would say that,
Speaker 2: but I don't know that if I would have Strange
Speaker 2: as it may sound, because all the things I went
Speaker 2: through are things statistically you're not supposed to make it
Speaker 2: to where I am. But I don't think I would
Speaker 2: have made it had I not gone through those things.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I keep thinking as I
Speaker 1: listen to your story and the more and more I
Speaker 1: get to know you, is that this whole you know,
Speaker 1: thinking of my dear, they tried to crush you, but
Speaker 1: they didn't know, Darling, that you are a diamond. So
Speaker 1: every single piece of pressure and crushing actually was revealing
Speaker 1: more and more and more of that brilliance of a diamond.
Speaker 1: And for anybody that's going through something tough, for challenging,
Speaker 1: if you're there and you're surviving it, you know, just
Speaker 1: remember too, that thing that's trying to crush you, they
Speaker 1: don't know that you are a diamond. And when I
Speaker 1: think of you as a little a little one, I
Speaker 1: can't help but wonder Ian, if you could sit with
Speaker 1: a younger version of your phenomenal wife, what would you
Speaker 1: say to her?
Speaker 7: The future is bright?
Speaker 5: The future the heck of a question.
Speaker 7: That was a great question. It was a great question.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, just I would echo the same things
Speaker 9: that Jamel mentioned, just in terms of everything that you're
Speaker 9: about to experience is going to prepare you for life.
Speaker 9: It's going to prepare you to deal with the different
Speaker 9: things that you'll encounter life. And while it may be hard,
Speaker 9: the things that you're experiencing, it's going to make you tougher,
Speaker 9: and it's going to make you better and better equipped
Speaker 9: to deal with your future.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times we don't know what
Speaker 2: exactly that we are being prepared for. And I think, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, knowing the person that you are and just
Speaker 2: how you're built and the way that you know you move.
Speaker 5: Is the.
Speaker 2: I often marvel at our relationship from the standpoint of like,
Speaker 2: I think, if you to ask me in my twenties,
Speaker 2: you know, what's the.
Speaker 5: Kind of man that you want?
Speaker 2: And to me, this is more a reflection to my
Speaker 2: immaturity and who you are is like, I don't think
Speaker 2: I would have been able to come up with the
Speaker 2: characteristics that you have because I just wasn't thinking on
Speaker 2: that level, right, Like, I don't think if you'd ask
Speaker 2: me a twenty five like what kind of man do
Speaker 2: you want?
Speaker 5: I might have named a job. I might have named
Speaker 5: like how somebody look.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say, like, you know, what matters to
Speaker 2: me is that you know somebody that gives you a
Speaker 2: sense of calm and peace, somebody who makes you laugh,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that I would have said that then,
Speaker 2: or somebody who carries himself with this level of integrity,
Speaker 2: that you know, that you can trust, that you.
Speaker 5: Know has a good heart, that treats people a certain.
Speaker 2: Way kindness like I would not have probably named those things,
Speaker 2: and you're all of those things.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I definitely would have told young Jamail to stop
Speaker 9: wasting a time your career.
Speaker 7: You don't really need to date something.
Speaker 1: Something good is around the port and it'll be we
Speaker 1: had a Michigan state right.
Speaker 5: Oh, you don't have to wait till you almost forty.
Speaker 5: But it's going to.
Speaker 4: Blake, follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast. Will be
Speaker 4: back in a moment. Now back to my Legacy.
Speaker 8: You've said athletes can become the new civil rights voices.
Speaker 10: How do you think sports can become a voice for
Speaker 10: social change right now?
Speaker 2: Athletes have a lot more power than I think they realize.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's just a plast to them.
Speaker 2: I think it applies to.
Speaker 5: Us in general as people.
Speaker 2: Because you know, what's the other adage, The greatest way
Speaker 2: you can take away somebody's powers to convince them they
Speaker 2: don't have any. And there's a lot of us that
Speaker 2: have been convinced that we don't have any and so
Speaker 2: we sort of sit in this cycle of apathy a
Speaker 2: lot of times, you know, allowing things to happen to us,
Speaker 2: rather than going back from fighting for what we want.
Speaker 2: And athletes sit in a very unique position, especially black athletes,
Speaker 2: because if it's one thing we definitely care about in
Speaker 2: this country, it's sports, and they are able to one.
Speaker 2: Sports is one of the few things that still bring
Speaker 2: us together. Like we're a very divided country, politically divided
Speaker 2: when it comes to the religion, but yet and still,
Speaker 2: if you know, you guys are in Atlanta, if the
Speaker 2: Falcons are having a great season, you have a Muslim fan,
Speaker 2: you have a Christian fan, black white, you know, queer fan,
Speaker 2: different genders, different races, different socioeconomic background, y'all will all
Speaker 2: come together and cheer for the Falcons. And so that's
Speaker 2: the power that sports still has in our society.
Speaker 5: And because it has that power, athletes have the.
Speaker 2: Position to get people to consider things and to look
Speaker 2: at things in a different way. It's amazing how people
Speaker 2: respond when their favorite athlete speaks to that experience something
Speaker 2: they may not be familiar with. I go back to
Speaker 2: when Trayvon Martin was murdered, and the first athletes to
Speaker 2: take a stand and to bring awareness to that where
Speaker 2: the Miami Heat when they had Lebron and d Wade
Speaker 2: and they all they just took a picture all of
Speaker 2: them wearing hoodies and they I think it was d
Speaker 2: Wade who talked about how Trayvon Martin could have been
Speaker 2: their son. And that is a message that resonated. And
Speaker 2: next thing you know, you saw people of all races
Speaker 2: changing their avatars on.
Speaker 5: Social media wearing hoodies.
Speaker 2: And you know, we have examples throughout history of where
Speaker 2: when athletes use their politically, when they use their platform
Speaker 2: to speak to injustice, to speak to you know, social
Speaker 2: justice overall. Just how powerful that can be because people
Speaker 2: are much more likely to receive it if it comes
Speaker 2: from someone they already admire.
Speaker 1: It's our turn now in the long march toward freedom.
Speaker 1: And one of the ways in which you do that
Speaker 1: also personally, is through your podcast splot Tics.
Speaker 2: Did I say that politics is politics politics in general?
Speaker 2: The whole point of the podcast was to connect the
Speaker 2: dots between sports and politics. And as much and as
Speaker 2: popular as it is for sports fans to say either
Speaker 2: I don't want politics and sports or I just want
Speaker 2: to escape.
Speaker 5: Politics is all around you in sports, whether you like
Speaker 5: it or not.
Speaker 2: One of the biggest stories of the past few weeks
Speaker 2: was that the Department of Defense trying to erase Jackie
Speaker 2: Robinson's legacy, and that is very much a sports story
Speaker 2: as it is a political story because of what Jackie
Speaker 2: Robinson stood for, and also an opportunity for people to
Speaker 2: understand that his legacy stretches beyond just him in a
Speaker 2: lating Major League Baseball in nineteen forty seven, which by
Speaker 2: the way, was what some twenty some years before we
Speaker 2: got the Civil Rights Act, in the Voting Rights Act.
Speaker 2: It was before you know, preceded you know, Brown versus
Speaker 2: the Board of Education.
Speaker 5: So it's sports is often in a position to.
Speaker 2: Lead YEP in these difficult areas, and so I just
Speaker 2: wanted people to remind or to be reminded that that
Speaker 2: relationship has been there from the starts. Politics have literally
Speaker 2: always been a part of sports.
Speaker 1: We have a project called Realize the Dream, which is
Speaker 1: to unite the country through service with one hundred million
Speaker 1: hours of service collectively together pledged and committed by my
Speaker 1: father in law's one hundredth birthday and twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we are incredibly honored to
Speaker 1: say is that every major sports league has signed up
Speaker 1: to join in the Realize the Dream initiative. So we
Speaker 1: have the NFL inspired change, we have have Major League Baseball,
Speaker 1: and we also have the NBA that are all coming
Speaker 1: together with us, joining forces with us to get the
Speaker 1: world out and get into communities to do some service together.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk sports.
Speaker 1: Let's just two women talking sports. So I have to
Speaker 1: ask before we wrap up. We're getting ready to add
Speaker 1: into the NBA playoffs, correct, So what do you think
Speaker 1: will be the some of the biggest stories from the playoffs.
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately they won't involve Atlanta, so I'm sorry.
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'll tell you that I do believe.
Speaker 2: Shay Gilgess Alexander, who plays with Oklahoma City Thunder, I
Speaker 2: think he's going to be the MVP.
Speaker 5: He's getting quite a chase from NICOLEA.
Speaker 2: Jokisch who plays for Denver, but I think it will
Speaker 2: be his and that'll be interesting because I believe that
Speaker 2: would make it the fifth straight year that the NBA
Speaker 2: MVP has gone to a foreign born player, which is
Speaker 2: going to create a lot of interesting conversations around the league.
Speaker 5: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I do think this is Oklahoma City's year to make
Speaker 2: the NBA finals.
Speaker 5: They're going to get there. They've been the best.
Speaker 2: Team all season, and I know that there is a
Speaker 2: level of doubt because they're still young, and people kind
Speaker 2: of have a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact, like, oh, okay, see,
Speaker 2: sure they are. You know, I think they faced a
Speaker 2: lot of that last year, but I think after losing
Speaker 2: and being a year more experienced, it feels like them.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be a okay see Boston Celtics final.
Speaker 2: And as much as it pains me to say, because
Speaker 2: you know, we're from Detroit so we're Pistons fans, I
Speaker 2: do think Boston is going to win the title again.
Speaker 2: But the good thing we have to look forward to
Speaker 2: is our Pistons will be in the playoffs. We have
Speaker 2: been irrelevant for too long. We were the worst team
Speaker 2: in NBA last year. We I don't know if we
Speaker 2: set the record for most losses in a brow. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we set and it was a hell of a turnaround
Speaker 2: to go from that to us now being firmly solidly
Speaker 2: in the playoffs. Like that, I'm if you ask me
Speaker 2: the thing I'm most excited about for the NBA playoffs,
Speaker 2: it is seeing the Pistons back in the playoffs.
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat thing.
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 4: So we've had a lot of conversations, We've had a
Speaker 4: lot of topics here, but this one, we gotta go
Speaker 4: radical transparency on me. Okay, okay, no hold bart, okay, okay,
Speaker 4: let's talk sports.
Speaker 5: I'm already scared.
Speaker 4: What is one opinion that you hold to no matter what,
Speaker 4: no matter how much the woman next to you disagrees with.
Speaker 6: One thing in sports?
Speaker 7: In sports, yes, you gotta.
Speaker 6: Disagree with her sometimes. And I imagine it's.
Speaker 7: Not this is this is one that we go back
Speaker 7: and forth with.
Speaker 6: Oh I want to hear it.
Speaker 4: I want to hear what you debate on in sports.
Speaker 9: So I'm a Pistols fans, I'm a I'm a detrader.
Speaker 9: But during the Michael Jordan days, I rolled with the bulls.
Speaker 4: So our listeners, there's a thumb going down for this
Speaker 4: powerful woman.
Speaker 7: It's right, yes, continue.
Speaker 9: Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. So as
Speaker 9: a kid, I was born in an eighty So as
Speaker 9: a kid, I mean, that was my hero. So when
Speaker 9: the Pistons walked out after they lost, after years of
Speaker 9: terrorizing Michael Jordans and you know, being super physical and
Speaker 9: basically cheating, beating them up.
Speaker 7: They.
Speaker 9: Walked, they walked out. They didn't shake his hand after
Speaker 9: years of beating them up. And Jamel, she's a homer.
Speaker 7: She takes up for the Pistons, and to me, right
Speaker 7: is right, Wrong is wrong. I don't care if Jamil
Speaker 7: is wrong. She's wrong even though she's my wife.
Speaker 9: But the Pistons were wrong, and she she wants to
Speaker 9: argue with me.
Speaker 2: I will always I'm standing firmly on the heel of
Speaker 2: the Pistons had every right to not shake the bull's
Speaker 2: hand because during that same series, Michael Jordan called the
Speaker 2: Pistons illegitimated champions. It's not our fault. You couldn't beat us, okay,
Speaker 2: and I get it. That's what's set off, That's what
Speaker 2: set everything in motion, is that the Pistons fell some
Speaker 2: kind of way because he completely devalued their championship and
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan is so petty. That is the reason why
Speaker 2: Isaiah Thomas wasn't on the Dream Team.
Speaker 5: It was because we go.
Speaker 6: That's what the Street Committee is.
Speaker 4: We have loved having the two of you be so open,
Speaker 4: so farable, so funny, so supportive to each other, so uplifting.
Speaker 4: Jamal sharing your story, how you've chosen to write it
Speaker 4: and rewrite it again, how you've chosen to own it
Speaker 4: and live it. The courage, the consequences, the leaning forward
Speaker 4: in support, championing together in such a beautiful example. Thank
Speaker 4: you for living your legacy and for sharing it with
Speaker 4: all of us here today.
Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you guys. We appreciate you all
Speaker 2: having us.
Speaker 3: Thank you all so much, so very much, thank you
Speaker 3: for joining us.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
Speaker 1: at my Legacy Movement on social media. New episodes drop
Speaker 1: every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At its core,
Speaker 1: this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community
Speaker 1: and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production
Speaker 1: distribute it by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Haywood
Speaker 1: co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may
Speaker 1: you find inspiration to live your legacy