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Speaker 1: One of the things you said in the past, Jamel,

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Speaker 1: is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape.

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Speaker 2: Off because strength and black women have become synonymous. And

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Speaker 2: that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be

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Speaker 2: a crippling thing in the sense that we assume that

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Speaker 2: we always have to wear this cape, and that if

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Speaker 2: we're not always the model of strength, then we're somehow

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Speaker 2: being imperfect. We also don't want to fall into the

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Speaker 2: trap of always thinking that we have to be somebody

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Speaker 2: else's savior, because sometimes the person that needs the most

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Speaker 2: saving is us. And what I loved about our relationship

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Speaker 2: is like, my husband's a great communicator, and even though

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Speaker 2: I might be in media, while I can certainly communicate,

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Speaker 2: I think it's always been difficult for me to communicate vulnerability,

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Speaker 2: for me to be comfortable in that soft place. But

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Speaker 2: when you have trust in your partner, it's easy to

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Speaker 2: be vulnerable. And so because I have such trust in him,

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Speaker 2: it's easy for me to do that.

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Speaker 1: That was Jamel Hill, courageous journalist and unapologetic truth teller,

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Speaker 1: describing her relationship with her husband Ian Wallace, and the

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Speaker 1: freedom she's found in finally laying down the weight of

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Speaker 1: always having to be the strong one. I'm Andrea Waters

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Speaker 1: King and this is My Legacy hosted by me, my

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Speaker 1: husband Martin Luther King, IID and our good friends Mark.

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Speaker 3: Kilberger and Craig Kilberger.

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Speaker 1: Today, Jamel and her husband take us deep into the

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Speaker 1: kind of love that heals, the strength it takes to

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Speaker 1: rewrite your story, and the wisdom that only comes after

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Speaker 1: the storm. This conversation is filled with truth, insight, and

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Speaker 1: takeaways that just might shift how you show up in

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Speaker 1: your own life. And don't worry, We've also got Jamel's

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Speaker 1: top dating dues and don'ts for women and for men,

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Speaker 1: and the sports argument that this couple will never ever resolve.

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Speaker 3: Let's dive in.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to My Legacy. For our new listeners and viewers,

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Speaker 4: this isn't your typical solo celebrity interview. This is the

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Speaker 4: show where remarkable people pull back the curtain and bring

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Speaker 4: along the one person who has seen it all, the highs,

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Speaker 4: the lows, the heartbreaks, the one who knows the full,

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Speaker 4: unfiltered story. And today we're joined by someone who has

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Speaker 4: never backed down from saying what needed to be said.

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Speaker 4: Jamel Hill is a trailblazing, award winning sports journalist podcast hosts,

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Speaker 4: author and unapologetic truth teller. Whether she's calling a game

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Speaker 4: or calling out injustice, her take is always sharp, fearless,

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Speaker 4: and fiercely her own. Jamel, would you mind introducing us

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Speaker 4: to your best, your favorite, your plus one who you

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Speaker 4: brought here today?

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you number one for that incredible intro. And

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Speaker 2: the person that I brought with me today is somebody

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Speaker 2: who and helped my mother. Won't take this personally, but

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Speaker 2: probably knows me better than anybody, but who knows me

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Speaker 2: the best, and who has seen me through so many

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Speaker 2: ups and downs and also understands my vulnerabilities, which is

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Speaker 2: very important to me because those are the things I

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Speaker 2: have the most trouble.

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Speaker 5: Showcasing and highlighting.

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Speaker 2: My support system, my rock, someone who I think has

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Speaker 2: the highest integrity of probably any person that I know.

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Speaker 2: So I brought with me my wonderful, beloved, sexy, handsome husband,

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Speaker 2: Ian Wallace.

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Speaker 6: That for intro.

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Speaker 7: I love it.

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Speaker 1: By the time you did both of those, By the

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Speaker 1: time you, I mean she introduced Ian and introduced her,

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Speaker 1: I feel like saying amen.

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Speaker 3: All around.

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Speaker 4: All our listeners are now putting down the podcast and

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Speaker 4: putting on the video version.

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Speaker 6: They're like, what does he look like?

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Speaker 8: You know, we all love love stories and we all

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Speaker 8: want to hear if redtail Jimille, can you tell us

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Speaker 8: how you all story began the two of you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure you asked this question enough to know

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Speaker 2: that when you're speaking with a couple, both people have

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Speaker 2: different versions of how this actually happened.

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Speaker 7: The truth, I actually tell the truth.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, it's true.

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Speaker 2: And somehow it feels like when men tell their side

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Speaker 2: of the story. It's also grossly embellished on a lot

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Speaker 2: of accounts.

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Speaker 5: So this was twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I was still at ESPN and I had a daily

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Speaker 2: sports discussion show called Numbers Never Lie. And I came

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Speaker 2: back to Michigan State where I went to school. My

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Speaker 2: husband also went to Michigan State as well, but we

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Speaker 2: went at different times.

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Speaker 5: They asked me to be the homecoming.

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Speaker 2: Ambassador, if you will, like, so I had to go

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Speaker 2: back be in the parade, you know, do all all

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Speaker 2: those that kind of homecoming stuff.

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Speaker 5: And so I went back there.

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Speaker 2: The show came there as well, just as a as

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Speaker 2: a support thing, and so you know, I was on

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Speaker 2: campus for the weekend and going around to different tailgates.

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Speaker 5: This is game day, went to a tailgate.

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Speaker 2: It was the Black Alumni tailgate, one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: tailgates to go to when I go to a Michigan

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Speaker 2: State football game. And I was there talking to someone.

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Speaker 2: It was actually and it turned out to be a

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Speaker 2: friend of my husband's and I didn't even know him then,

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Speaker 2: and I was talking to him when my husband came up.

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Speaker 2: And as soon as he came up and started talking

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Speaker 2: to his friend, I immediately noticed, he's fine.

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Speaker 5: So like, I'm not gonna lie like it was officially I.

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Speaker 6: Loved you and smile. He's not saying anything. He's just

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Speaker 6: sitting there smiling.

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Speaker 7: So far, so far?

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Speaker 5: Okay, do I have this correct? All right? So I

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Speaker 5: was like, he's fine, Where did he come from? I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna continue this conversation.

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Speaker 2: So the three of us started to talk and there

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Speaker 2: was definitely some flirty eye energy.

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Speaker 5: Between me and my husband.

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Speaker 2: I just sort of left things there because I had

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Speaker 2: other homecoming duties that I had to do and I

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Speaker 2: did not expect to see him again. Well, fast forward

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Speaker 2: to a few hours later. They have a big party

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Speaker 2: the Black Michigan say Black Alumni. They host a big

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Speaker 2: party for homecoming weekend. I went to the party, and

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Speaker 2: sure enough I'm at the party. I look across the

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Speaker 2: dance floor and my husband is standing right there, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, the fine guy from the tailgate.

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Speaker 2: You know, so I energy this is This is just

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Speaker 2: a little aside, a pro tip for ladies out there.

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Speaker 5: I energy works.

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Speaker 2: You send the right eye energy, the right body language.

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Speaker 5: You can just bring them on to you. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So I looked at him and I gave him that

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Speaker 2: I energy like, I need you to come over here.

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Speaker 5: And he came over.

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Speaker 2: He got my number, and the rest, as they say,

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Speaker 2: is history. More importantly too, pro tip for men who

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Speaker 2: are listening. He called me the next day. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: like he waited. He didn't, you know, hold it out

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Speaker 2: for a week to try to see you know, you know, yeah, cool,

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Speaker 2: he didn't.

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Speaker 5: He called me the next day. Eye energy, yep ie energy.

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Speaker 1: And when you see something, say something right. So, in

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Speaker 1: other words, call the next day. Don't don't play your

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Speaker 1: follow up. Don't play let her forget you follow up.

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Speaker 1: There's no need to play games with the grown woman.

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Speaker 5: No, And so, babe, did I get that right?

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Speaker 7: Mostly true?

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Speaker 9: You forgot to mention love at first sight, not for me.

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Speaker 7: For her.

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Speaker 5: Saying, it's always always got to put a little extra

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Speaker 5: on it.

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, we got to hear your side of the story.

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Speaker 4: Love at first sight. What did you first see when

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Speaker 4: you saw her with and most importantly, when did.

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Speaker 3: You fall hard?

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Speaker 9: What was an instant connection when we first seen each other.

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Speaker 9: So it was crazy that we didn't exchange numbers and

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Speaker 9: we left it to fate.

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Speaker 7: So we seen each other that.

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Speaker 9: That same night, and she was just shining on the

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Speaker 9: dance floor. It was almost like a spotlight was on her,

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Speaker 9: and I think Keisha Cole sent from Heaven was playing

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Speaker 9: as I walked over.

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Speaker 6: And if it wasn't, that's how it's always gonna be remembered.

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Speaker 7: Yes, yes, yeah, it sounds good.

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Speaker 6: Sounds good.

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Speaker 9: But you know, as we got to know each other

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Speaker 9: and we talk more and more, it was it was

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Speaker 9: just different. You know, she was truly a unicorn. You know,

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Speaker 9: she was different from a lot of females that I

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Speaker 9: had been with in the past, and she was just

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Speaker 9: a breath of fresh air. So I struggled earlier. I

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Speaker 9: didn't want to fall in love. I was trying not to.

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Speaker 7: I was like, no, it's too soon.

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Speaker 1: One of the things you said in the past, Jamil

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Speaker 1: is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape off.

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Speaker 3: And I love that.

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Speaker 1: I think there's so many women in general, and Black

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Speaker 1: women in particular, that feel as if we have to

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Speaker 1: be so strong for everyone and everything and to have

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Speaker 1: a soft space. And it also ties into when you

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Speaker 1: introduced him, you use the word vulnerable, that he allows

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Speaker 1: you to be vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: Can you just talk a little bit and share.

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Speaker 1: With our listeners and unfold what that means to you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're exactly right that you know

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Speaker 2: because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's

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Speaker 2: not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a

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Speaker 2: crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we

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Speaker 2: always have to wear this cape, and that if we're

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Speaker 2: not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.

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Speaker 2: And while it's true that we certainly have to have

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Speaker 2: our armor on, we certainly have to be ready for

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Speaker 2: all the things that are coming at us. We also

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Speaker 2: don't want to fall into the trap of always thinking

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Speaker 2: that we have to be somebody else's savior, because sometimes

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Speaker 2: the person that needs the most saving is us, and

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Speaker 2: probably the best thing that we can do for ourselves

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Speaker 2: is find people, a community, places where we don't always

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Speaker 2: have to be the one that comes up with the solution,

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Speaker 2: always have to be the one who sacrifices always, you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't have to constantly put ourselves in that mode.

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we say what kind of we save

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Speaker 2: the democracy? Is like at some point, like we have

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Speaker 2: to really save ourselves. And what I loved about our

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Speaker 2: relationship is like my husband's a great communicator, and even

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Speaker 2: though I might be in media, while I can certainly communicate,

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Speaker 2: I think it has always been difficult for me to

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Speaker 2: communicate vulnerability, for me to be comfortable in that soft

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Speaker 2: place and just organically and naturally. It was never a

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Speaker 2: conversation that we had, but it was through action and

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Speaker 2: through communication that it was really easy for me to

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Speaker 2: see that this was some place that I didn't have

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Speaker 2: to always feel like I had to be the strong one.

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Speaker 2: But when you have trust in your partner, it's easy

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Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. And so because I have such trust

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Speaker 2: in him, it's easy for me to do that.

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Speaker 1: So was it hard then for you to find that place?

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Speaker 1: Because I think for so many women and we love

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Speaker 1: being strong, it really is who we are. But to

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Speaker 1: have that dance of also being vulnerable, you know again,

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Speaker 1: like you know, we're out in the world, always say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've shown up for this country, and now

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Speaker 1: it's also time for the country to show up for us.

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Speaker 1: And so for you to find that space also of

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Speaker 1: being vulnerable, to have a place to fall into.

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Speaker 3: Was that scary for you at first?

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's terrifying. You know.

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Speaker 2: Nobody goes willingly, you know, I don't want to make

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Speaker 2: it seem like, you know, vulnerability knocked on the door

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Speaker 2: and I was like, hi, I'm ready.

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Speaker 5: Like no, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was a process, as it is for a lot

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Speaker 2: of women, especially if you you know, independent, been used

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Speaker 2: to doing everything on your own and used to being

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Speaker 2: your own savior, like it's hard to sometimes relinquish some

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Speaker 2: of that. So then to me, the responsibility was on

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Speaker 2: me to start to open up and to share that

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Speaker 2: and to be more vulnerable with him, because he had

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Speaker 2: shown me that he was more than capable of being

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Speaker 2: the soft place, the landing, the place where I would

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Speaker 2: feel that sense of comfort and peace. It was then

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Speaker 2: on me to take my armor off, to take off,

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Speaker 2: you know, my battle gear, and be that person with him.

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Speaker 4: Well, Jamel, I love how you described the impact the

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Speaker 4: relationship has on you, and if I could shift it

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Speaker 4: back to you again, you know, if I could ask,

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Speaker 4: what have you experienced being in that relationship with Jamel

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Speaker 4: and how has it changed how you show up in a.

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Speaker 9: Relationship well being with the woman who's strongest Jamail. I

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Speaker 9: was never intimidated by it. It was actually something that

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Speaker 9: I cherish, you know, just having a strong woman and

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Speaker 9: being there for And there was a wall that was up,

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Speaker 9: you know, initially when we met, but by trade, I'm

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Speaker 9: a salesperson, so I asked a lot of questions and

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Speaker 9: the questions were genuine.

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Speaker 7: It was organic, you know.

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Speaker 9: I wanted to know about her and you know, the

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Speaker 9: different experiences that she had in her life and.

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Speaker 7: Learning from her.

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Speaker 9: And it was funny because I remember asking questions to

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Speaker 9: her mom and she's like, why are you asking so

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Speaker 9: many questions, and it's like, I just want to know.

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Speaker 9: I'm just curious, you know, I want to know Jamel.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I think that's an underrated ability

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Speaker 2: because I think a lot of women have experienced having

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Speaker 2: interactions with men, especially if there's like some level of

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Speaker 2: romantic interest where the men tend to talk more about

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Speaker 2: themselves and it's okay to talk about yourself because I

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Speaker 2: wanted to learn about you too.

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Speaker 5: It is something that I always.

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Speaker 2: Keep in the back of my mind that if i'm

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Speaker 2: you know, if I'm on a date with a guy

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't ask me a single question, I think that's.

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Speaker 5: A bit of a pink flag.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, he didn't ask me anything about myself, and

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Speaker 2: he was so different because he asked me a lot

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Speaker 2: of questions. And more importantly, I should say this because

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Speaker 2: I've told this story before and I feel like now

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Speaker 2: I have a chance to like fully clarify it is that,

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the things I loved about him

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Speaker 2: is that he never asked me about work. All of

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Speaker 2: the questions were about, you know, who I was, maybe

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Speaker 2: how I grew up. You know, we have a lot

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Speaker 2: of things in common. We're both from Detroit, so that

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Speaker 2: was like a natural connection between us. We both went

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Speaker 2: to Michigan State, another natural, you know, kind of connection.

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Speaker 2: And so just getting the look to know the totality

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Speaker 2: of who I am, because you know, when I was

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Speaker 2: at ESPN and you're in such a high visible position,

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Speaker 2: naturally a lot of men watch ESPN and they're very

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Speaker 2: familiar with the personalities on ESPN, and it was always

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Speaker 2: kind of irritating to me that if I was talking

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Speaker 2: to a guy and he's asking me forty five questions

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Speaker 2: about ESPN, like I, do you want to be on

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Speaker 2: a date with ESPN?

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Speaker 5: Or do you want to be on a date with me?

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Speaker 2: Like, don't stop asking me about what Steven A. Smith

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Speaker 2: is like, what Skip Baylor's is like, wasn't like to

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Speaker 2: be on around the horn like I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: you know? To me, that's not really getting to know me.

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Speaker 2: That's getting to know my job.

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Speaker 3: Pro tip number four.

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Speaker 1: Now, we're gonna have like a after this, it'll be

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Speaker 1: a one two three to now.

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Speaker 3: Pro Tip number four to ask questions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, man, ask questions, and don't you know, ask questions

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Speaker 2: that lead you to understand who this person is. You know,

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Speaker 2: asking how they grew up or you know how you

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Speaker 2: know what we're what were your parents right like? And

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Speaker 2: you know, asking about school and you know, and just

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Speaker 2: generally getting some texture about what made them into the

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Speaker 2: person that they are.

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Speaker 10: In your earlier years as you were matriculating through your

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Speaker 10: early years of the career, and particularly as as a

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Speaker 10: black woman who were your mentors. Who were some of

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Speaker 10: your mentors or war their mentors.

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Speaker 5: I had a lot, you know.

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Speaker 2: Of course, everybody you know is fortunate enough to have

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Speaker 2: the people in their family be your earliest mentors. So

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Speaker 2: I had my mother who certainly always stressing of education, who.

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Speaker 5: Whether I liked it or not, she was always on

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Speaker 5: me in terms of discipline.

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Speaker 2: My grandmother, she also was a strong influence in my life.

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Speaker 2: She originally from the South, from Kentucky, migrated to Detroit,

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Speaker 2: you know, right before she started high school, and she

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Speaker 2: went back and got her bachelor's degree. She already had

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Speaker 2: three kids, and she was in her i think her

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Speaker 2: mid thirties when she went and got her bachelor's degree

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Speaker 2: from Wayne State University in Detroit. Spent her professional life

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Speaker 2: working as a social worker for the state of Michigan.

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Speaker 2: And so those were, you know, two strong women in

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Speaker 2: my life who always stressed the importance of education, of

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Speaker 2: building a life for myself, of upward mobility, and Detroit

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Speaker 2: as a city, because percentage wise, is the black of

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Speaker 2: city in America right now, and certainly because that's always

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Speaker 2: been such a strong part of the identity of Detroit.

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Speaker 5: Coming up through public schools in Detroit.

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Speaker 2: The sense of identity that I had by the time

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Speaker 2: I went to college was very strong. I was blessed

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Speaker 2: and fortunate enough to have a lot of black teachers

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Speaker 2: who poured into me, and certainly early on as I

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Speaker 2: began showing an interest in writing, like I started my

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Speaker 2: journalism path in high school. You know, I was very

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Speaker 2: lucky to have started so early, and so my journalism teachers.

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Speaker 2: In my memoir, it was a reason why I made

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Speaker 2: sure that I acknowledged my teachers in the acknowledgment section,

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Speaker 2: because teachers don't get enough credit number one, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of times they don't know how sometimes their students

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Speaker 2: turn out. And I think it's affirming for them to

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Speaker 2: know that as much resistance as kids as we may

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Speaker 2: give you that seeds are still being planted even as

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Speaker 2: we're resisting. And you know, I think about my creative

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Speaker 2: writing teacher I went to Mufford High School in Detroit, MS. Blackhawk,

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Speaker 2: who I still email occasionally to this day. My journalism teacher,

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Speaker 2: Miss Sebrim, other journalism teacher, missus Platt. I still know

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Speaker 2: them because I remember the lessons that they taught me.

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Speaker 5: So those were early mentors I love.

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Speaker 6: That was so awesome to hear that.

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Speaker 5: You gotta do it by name.

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Speaker 2: And even now that I know them as adults, I

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Speaker 2: cannot call them by their first name.

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Speaker 5: It's like impossible for me to do this. You know,

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Speaker 5: my middle school teacher, missus Johnson, and.

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Speaker 2: You know my counselor, Miss Todd, Like I remember all

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Speaker 2: of the people who were giving me that encouraged me

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Speaker 2: planning those seeds. And when I first started working for

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Speaker 2: the Detroit Free Press, the professional paper in Detroit and

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Speaker 2: high school answering phones in the sports.

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Speaker 5: Department, it was uh.

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Speaker 2: They were one of the sports departments that actually had

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Speaker 2: women who were reporters. And they took me on the

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Speaker 2: sports staff, that is, and they took me under their wing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the first time I attended professional practice, my

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Speaker 2: mentor John ed Howard, she took me. She was doing

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Speaker 2: a big story on the Detroit Lions, on their former

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Speaker 2: head coach Wayne Fonce, And that was the first time

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Speaker 2: I got to see and fell practice and seeing her

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Speaker 2: report and seeing her talk to different players. You know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it may sound strange, but sometimes ignorance is bliss,

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Speaker 2: just in the sense of I was too ignorant to

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Speaker 2: know that sports journalism was something women weren't supposed to do.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Because so many people had given me the confidence that

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Speaker 2: this was where I belonged. So by the time I

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Speaker 2: started really making my way in the industry, and I

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Speaker 2: looked around the room, and in most spaces, I was

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Speaker 2: either the only black person, the only woman, and certainly

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Speaker 2: the only black woman. I had enough confidence to know

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Speaker 2: that even though this room looks like this, I belong

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Speaker 2: here and.

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Speaker 5: I have just as much of a right to be

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Speaker 5: here as anybody else. So it was too late.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't ruin my confidence by the end, right, So

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Speaker 2: I was really fortunate that I had a long list

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Speaker 2: of people who poured into me and who constantly affirmed that, hey,

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Speaker 2: you're in the right place, You're doing the right thing,

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Speaker 2: and you just have to simply keep going.

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Speaker 1: Like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: share this with someone who needs a reminder of their

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Speaker 1: own strength today back in a moment, now back to

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Speaker 1: my Legacy.

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Speaker 4: You talk about courage, and I want to reflect on

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Speaker 4: what that courage has meant, because you know, very famously

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Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, you called out President Trump's racism. You

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Speaker 4: called out Jerry Jones his stance on players taking a knee,

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Speaker 4: and that ultimately costs you your job. You know that

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Speaker 4: that's courage. And so when you talk about courage, when

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Speaker 4: you reflect back on that time, what did that teach

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Speaker 4: you about your voice? What does that teach you about

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Speaker 4: your values? And frankly, what did it teach you about

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Speaker 4: your willingness to risk it all for what you believe in?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure a lot of people who have been

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Speaker 2: in far more dangerous positions than that one, especially as

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Speaker 2: you know, with you all being so intimately acquainted with

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Speaker 2: the civil rights movement, is that you don't know if

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Speaker 2: you're going to.

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Speaker 5: Meet the moment until the moment find you. You have

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Speaker 5: no idea.

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Speaker 2: So if you would have asked me before that actually happened, Hey,

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Speaker 2: if this was the scenario, what would you do? You

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Speaker 2: think you know what you would do, You think you

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Speaker 2: know how you might respond, but you don't really actually

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Speaker 2: know until you're right there in the fire. And so

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Speaker 2: all of the decisions that I made as the you know,

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Speaker 2: White House called for me to be fired, as you know,

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump singled me out on social media as that

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Speaker 2: was happening. I mean, I'm making mental decisions in real time,

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Speaker 2: and I had to sort of have a few moments

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Speaker 2: with myself and saying like, Okay, if this results in

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Speaker 2: you being fired, like right in this moment, what are

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Speaker 2: you gonna do?

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Speaker 5: Or if they put it on.

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Speaker 2: The table, hey, either apologize to the president or you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to leave here.

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Speaker 5: What are you gonna do?

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Speaker 2: And I every think and every cell in my body

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Speaker 2: was like, if they asked me to apologize to the president,

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it. And I made that clear

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Speaker 2: very early. I'm never apologizing to him. I said what

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Speaker 2: I said, and we just got to live with that.

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Speaker 2: The other part of it, too, is like knowing that, hey,

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Speaker 2: if this is the end of the road right here.

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't leave ESPN until a year later,

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Speaker 2: and I'd left on my own terms, and if at

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00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: the moment they had to make a business decision, I

443
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: just I would have.

444
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 5: Lived with it.

445
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it wouldn't feel good, especially given all the

446
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: work that I put in to get to that point.

447
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: And there's not many people who get the opportunity to

448
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 2: anchor the six o'clock Sports Center, one of the sort

449
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: of treasured time slots at ESPN, But if that was

450
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 2: the result, that was the result. And at you know,

451
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: when stuff like this happens, where your integrity and your

452
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 2: character is questioned, you have to be able to live

453
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: with yourself. And I would not have been able to

454
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 2: live with myself had I capitulated in a way that

455
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: I think would not have spoke to who authentically I am.

456
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: So it was a lot of lessons that I've found

457
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: out in real time and just because the situation was there,

458
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: And I'm thankful for that, because when similar situations, maybe

459
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 2: not always involving the President of the United States, but

460
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 2: when other tests of your character, your integrity, when those

461
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 2: things happen, it's muscle memory. Now you're confident because you've

462
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: already done it. And I've done it at a level

463
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 2: that most people don't get to do it at. And

464
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: so when I'm in meetings or in determining business relationships

465
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: and things pop up where you have to stand on something,

466
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm so much more comfortable doing that because I've already

467
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: done it before. It's very similar to an athlete. I mean,

468
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure Michael Jordan missed a lot of game winning

469
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: shots before he actually made them, and when he finally

470
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: made one, it became muscle memory, and then after that

471
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: that dude was never losing. So I sort of approach

472
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 2: it with the mentality that an athlete might.

473
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 3: So even before that happened.

474
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: Let's also go back to your beginning days of ESPN, because,

475
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, you found yourself in rooms where

476
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: you were, you know, most times, one, if not the

477
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: only woman, you know, certainly probably probably the only black woman.

478
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: So if we're talking about legacy on this show, you know,

479
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: and you at ESPN early two thousands, you know that

480
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: legacy is there. But you said about that time that

481
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: it is both isolating and yet motivating. Can you share

482
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: with our listeners a little bit by what you mean

483
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: by that?

484
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: So the isolating part is when I was a sports

485
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: columnist at the Orlando Sentinel. This would have been in

486
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: two thousand and five and most of two thousand and six,

487
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: I was the only black female sports columnist at a

488
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: daily newspaper in North America. And notice I didn't just

489
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: say America, right, So that's one out of four hundred

490
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: and five newspapers, And that is an embarrassing statistic for

491
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: the profession of journalism, and a lot of people might

492
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: have thought that that would have given me some sense

493
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: of accomplishment.

494
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 5: It did not.

495
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: What it was communicating to me, and even worse, communicating

496
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: to other women who might want to get in the business,

497
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: is that your voices aren't necessary nor are they valued.

498
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: And so that's the isolating part, and you know it

499
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: also comes with a lot of scrutiny because you're the

500
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: only one and a lot of black people have been

501
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: in this situation in all industries. Is that when you're

502
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: the only one, you then become the test case, right,

503
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: So you have to carry yourself a certain way because

504
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: you are living with the burden of if I mess up,

505
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: no one else is coming after me.

506
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 5: Black people aren't perfect, right.

507
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: So it's like, if I make some junior mistakes or whatever,

508
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: if that's the reason why you won't see value in

509
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 2: black women having voices in the sports space, then that,

510
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: to me reflects more on you than it does on me.

511
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: So you're carrying all of this, but at the same time,

512
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 2: you know, getting to ESPN, a place that is considered

513
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: to be for our profession at the very top, if

514
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: you're in sports media, being the most powerful sports media

515
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: company in America, then you know there's something to be

516
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 2: celebrated by being able to advance and take that step

517
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: and realize that all the hard work has brought you

518
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: to this place and brought you to this sense of elevation.

519
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: But it's always to me about who is able to

520
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: come behind you. As a result, now, UESPN is in

521
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: a very different position because they can hire whoever they want,

522
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: and you look at their team picture and it's very

523
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: diverse because they have a lot of women. And even

524
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: before I got there, Robin Roberts was the one who

525
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: set the table, you know, and so they've always had

526
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: a steady pipeline of women of color and putting them

527
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 2: in certain positions. Where I was a little bit different

528
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: is that they were traditional anchors, and I was one

529
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: of the few that were able to develop a foot

530
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: hole and an imprint at ESPN by giving my opinion,

531
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: by creating conversation based off my perspective and my experience

532
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: that I had as a sports journalist over the course

533
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: of many years. So I was very thrilled to be there,

534
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: but I also was fully aware that if I walk

535
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: into one more room and I'm the only one in there,

536
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: that's not a good room. It's like I've never been

537
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: one of those people. And there, unfortunately, are some people

538
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: of color who are like this that they do.

539
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 5: Want to be the only one in the room.

540
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: I don't want to be the only one in the

541
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: room because I don't know everything. I don't represent the

542
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: entire totality of women of black women.

543
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 5: I do not do that.

544
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: And so it's important that we all you know, when

545
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 2: we go in these rooms, that is not just about

546
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: getting in the room. It's about getting in the room

547
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: and kind of breaking it up and opening the door even.

548
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 5: Wider so that more of us. So it's a you know,

549
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 5: a flood of us coming in.

550
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: I loved when Kamala Harris said upon accepting the vice presidency,

551
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: I might be the first, but I won't be the last.

552
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 3: I love that sentiment.

553
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: And so here you are at you know, ESPN, you know,

554
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: seemingly from the outside, you know, riding on top of

555
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: the world. Then you had this unfair attack and this

556
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: fall from where you had worked so hard to be.

557
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: But throughout all of that Ian was there, and he,

558
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, walked with you through that storm and was

559
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: always at your side. So my question is for you, Ian,

560
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: and particularly for couples that are listening right now, and

561
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: if they're going through the storm, they're watching someone that

562
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: they love go through the storm. What advice would you

563
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: have for couples walking that path.

564
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 9: I believe communication is the key, you know, constant communication.

565
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 9: When Jamel had when she was going through her storm,

566
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 9: really first and foremost, I wanted to make sure that

567
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 9: I was there and she felt my presence and she

568
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 9: knew that she wasn't alone. We had a lot of

569
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 9: good times and that was probably the most challenging part

570
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 9: of our relationship up up to that point. So my

571
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 9: biggest thing was making sure that she didn't feel alone,

572
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 9: making sure that she felt my presence and we were

573
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 9: going to get through this together. And naturally, I'm a fixer,

574
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 9: so sometimes I have to dial that back because sometimes

575
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 9: she may just want to vent and she just needs

576
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 9: a listening ear versus you know, solution after solution. But

577
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 9: my goal was to remain positive throughout the entire situation

578
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 9: because I knew something good would come from it, and

579
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 9: a lot of things came from it that were.

580
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 7: Good on a positive note.

581
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 9: So just positivity and communication would be my advice to

582
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 9: any couples going through any type of turmoil.

583
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I remember when I got suspended, So I

584
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: had a two week suspension. I think I spent the

585
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 2: first week with you, right, So I and you know

586
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: that to me said a lot about our relationship. Is

587
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: that My immediate instinct after I got suspended was I

588
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: need to hop on the plane and I need to

589
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: be with him, right because I knew that the comfort

590
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: I was looking for, I knew the solace I was

591
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: looking for. I knew all of that could be found

592
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: in him. And you know that spoke volumes about our

593
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: you know, relationship, and I know it probably wasn't the

594
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: easiest from you in the sense of that. You know,

595
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: here you have me being discussed on all these news channels,

596
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: and you know he's also in the corporate world, so

597
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: you have colleagues that are watching.

598
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 9: Well. The challenge for me was, you know, under normal circumstances,

599
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 9: if I was dating a regular woman, if she got

600
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 9: into an issue with someone at work, I would just

601
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 9: go up there and have a.

602
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 7: Conversation with that.

603
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 9: With it being the president of the United States, so

604
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 9: it was a little handcom So it was a little

605
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 9: challenging for me.

606
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 7: So, and that's another thing.

607
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 9: You know, we have fun, so making her laugh and

608
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 9: just making her feel comfortable.

609
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 4: I think what are for our viewers and listeners who

610
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: might not know you as well.

611
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 7: I don't think they would.

612
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 4: Fully understand that your story is one of incredible courage,

613
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 4: Like people would, I think, be surprised that you would

614
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 4: take on the President of the United States until they

615
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 4: actually understand more about your origin. You know, you wrote

616
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: about your mom, you wrote about you know, families battling

617
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 4: with addiction, you wrote about you know, the challenges that

618
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 4: you overcame in your life and your origin story. Can

619
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 4: you bring some of our our listeners more deeply into

620
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: those moments that shaped who you were on just a

621
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: very fundamental level and and what actually was I'm curious

622
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 4: to aspast what was the hardest part to reveal that,

623
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: to share that with people?

624
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted, you know, I wanted to be as

625
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: transparent with the people reading as I when I sit

626
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: across and interview people, as I want them to be

627
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: with me. And I wanted to kind of leave it

628
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: all out there because a lot of times, especially if

629
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: people view you as being successful, they see the picture

630
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: before them now, they don't see what it took to

631
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: get to that, right, And so I think it's important

632
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: to share that so that people understand that, listen, we're

633
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: all going to face challenges, we all have some kind

634
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: of trauma we're dealing with, but those are things that

635
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: do not have to define your journey. And it was

636
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: especially important for me to share the fact that, you know,

637
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: I grew up in Detroit, growing up there, you know,

638
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm a med seventies baby, So by the time I

639
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: was coming of age, it's like, you know, that's when

640
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: a lot of crime, a.

641
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 5: Lot of drugs have really sieged on.

642
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, you know, my father and also my mother,

643
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: they battled through a drug addiction during a time where

644
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people in Detroit were battling with those

645
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: same things. And you know, not just sort of the

646
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: drug addiction having a particular legacy in my family, but

647
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: also sexual trauma and sexual abuse as well, and so

648
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: dealing with those issues early on in life were as

649
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: debilitating as they could be at times for my mother

650
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: in particular, they also were preparing me for a journey

651
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: that I didn't even realize that I was going to

652
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: be on. And so later on, you know, you fast

653
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: forward to when I get into it with the President,

654
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were you know naturally asking

655
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: me like are you okay, and you know, how are

656
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: you making it through? It was like, if you knew

657
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: what I made through before I even got to this point,

658
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: you would see why I laugh at that question. It's

659
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: like it wouldn't even rank in the top twenty of

660
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: worse things that I've been through. I mean, yes, it

661
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: played out very publicly, and you know, there were some

662
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 2: professional challenges I've had to overcome as a result, and

663
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: to be frank still over having to overcome.

664
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 5: Because he's back in office.

665
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: So yeah, while having to deal with that, it did

666
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: not compare to having to up close witness my mother

667
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: battle a drug addiction, and so I wanted to make

668
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: sure that I wrote very honestly about those moments because

669
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who deal with addiction

670
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 2: in their family, and I wanted to hopefully for people

671
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: remove the layer of shame, because there's nothing that you

672
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: should feel ashamed of if you come from a background

673
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: that is similar to the one that I came from.

674
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 5: And because I do have that.

675
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 2: Upbringing of being, you know, the child of addicts and

676
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 2: seeing some of the things that I've seen, it gives

677
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: me actually incredible perspective as a person and as a

678
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: journalist as well, because I think as a journalist you're

679
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 2: not very.

680
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 5: Good if you can't write with empathy.

681
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: And I think, as I've reported on a number of

682
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: different stories, some in sports from outside of sports, I'm

683
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: able to take that empathy into these different situations, and

684
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: I think people give people who are reading or watching

685
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: an honest reflection about the complications of life. So it's

686
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: funny because when my mother and I did Red Table Talk,

687
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: we kind of had this kind of back and forth

688
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: about that because when I told her that the things

689
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: she had gone through, you know, really I wouldn't be

690
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: where I am if she hadn't gone through those But

691
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 2: she sees it another way that is more of an

692
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: indication of her failure.

693
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 5: It's like you.

694
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: Should not have had to have seen that to learn

695
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: those lessons. You know, mothers obviously they always want to

696
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: protect you, and I do understand why she would say that,

697
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: but I don't know that if I would have Strange

698
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: as it may sound, because all the things I went

699
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: through are things statistically you're not supposed to make it

700
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: to where I am. But I don't think I would

701
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: have made it had I not gone through those things.

702
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: One of the things that I keep thinking as I

703
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: listen to your story and the more and more I

704
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: get to know you, is that this whole you know,

705
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: thinking of my dear, they tried to crush you, but

706
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: they didn't know, Darling, that you are a diamond. So

707
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: every single piece of pressure and crushing actually was revealing

708
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: more and more and more of that brilliance of a diamond.

709
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: And for anybody that's going through something tough, for challenging,

710
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: if you're there and you're surviving it, you know, just

711
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: remember too, that thing that's trying to crush you, they

712
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know that you are a diamond. And when I

713
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: think of you as a little a little one, I

714
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: can't help but wonder Ian, if you could sit with

715
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: a younger version of your phenomenal wife, what would you

716
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: say to her?

717
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 7: The future is bright?

718
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: The future the heck of a question.

719
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 7: That was a great question. It was a great question.

720
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, just I would echo the same things

721
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 9: that Jamel mentioned, just in terms of everything that you're

722
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 9: about to experience is going to prepare you for life.

723
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 9: It's going to prepare you to deal with the different

724
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 9: things that you'll encounter life. And while it may be hard,

725
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 9: the things that you're experiencing, it's going to make you tougher,

726
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 9: and it's going to make you better and better equipped

727
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 9: to deal with your future.

728
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times we don't know what

729
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 2: exactly that we are being prepared for. And I think, uh,

730
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: you know, knowing the person that you are and just

731
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: how you're built and the way that you know you move.

732
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 5: Is the.

733
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: I often marvel at our relationship from the standpoint of like,

734
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: I think, if you to ask me in my twenties,

735
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: you know, what's the.

736
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 5: Kind of man that you want?

737
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: And to me, this is more a reflection to my

738
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: immaturity and who you are is like, I don't think

739
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: I would have been able to come up with the

740
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: characteristics that you have because I just wasn't thinking on

741
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: that level, right, Like, I don't think if you'd ask

742
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: me a twenty five like what kind of man do

743
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: you want?

744
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 5: I might have named a job. I might have named

745
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 5: like how somebody look.

746
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say, like, you know, what matters to

747
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: me is that you know somebody that gives you a

748
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 2: sense of calm and peace, somebody who makes you laugh,

749
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that I would have said that then,

750
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: or somebody who carries himself with this level of integrity,

751
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 2: that you know, that you can trust, that you.

752
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 5: Know has a good heart, that treats people a certain.

753
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: Way kindness like I would not have probably named those things,

754
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 2: and you're all of those things.

755
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, I definitely would have told young Jamail to stop

756
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 9: wasting a time your career.

757
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 7: You don't really need to date something.

758
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: Something good is around the port and it'll be we

759
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: had a Michigan state right.

760
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 5: Oh, you don't have to wait till you almost forty.

761
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 5: But it's going to.

762
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 4: Blake, follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast. Will be

763
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 4: back in a moment. Now back to my Legacy.

764
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 8: You've said athletes can become the new civil rights voices.

765
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 10: How do you think sports can become a voice for

766
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 10: social change right now?

767
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: Athletes have a lot more power than I think they realize.

768
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's just a plast to them.

769
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: I think it applies to.

770
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 5: Us in general as people.

771
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: Because you know, what's the other adage, The greatest way

772
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: you can take away somebody's powers to convince them they

773
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: don't have any. And there's a lot of us that

774
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: have been convinced that we don't have any and so

775
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: we sort of sit in this cycle of apathy a

776
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: lot of times, you know, allowing things to happen to us,

777
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: rather than going back from fighting for what we want.

778
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 2: And athletes sit in a very unique position, especially black athletes,

779
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: because if it's one thing we definitely care about in

780
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: this country, it's sports, and they are able to one.

781
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: Sports is one of the few things that still bring

782
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: us together. Like we're a very divided country, politically divided

783
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: when it comes to the religion, but yet and still,

784
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: if you know, you guys are in Atlanta, if the

785
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 2: Falcons are having a great season, you have a Muslim fan,

786
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: you have a Christian fan, black white, you know, queer fan,

787
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: different genders, different races, different socioeconomic background, y'all will all

788
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: come together and cheer for the Falcons. And so that's

789
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 2: the power that sports still has in our society.

790
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 5: And because it has that power, athletes have the.

791
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: Position to get people to consider things and to look

792
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: at things in a different way. It's amazing how people

793
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: respond when their favorite athlete speaks to that experience something

794
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: they may not be familiar with. I go back to

795
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: when Trayvon Martin was murdered, and the first athletes to

796
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: take a stand and to bring awareness to that where

797
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 2: the Miami Heat when they had Lebron and d Wade

798
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: and they all they just took a picture all of

799
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: them wearing hoodies and they I think it was d

800
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 2: Wade who talked about how Trayvon Martin could have been

801
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: their son. And that is a message that resonated. And

802
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: next thing you know, you saw people of all races

803
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: changing their avatars on.

804
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 5: Social media wearing hoodies.

805
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: And you know, we have examples throughout history of where

806
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: when athletes use their politically, when they use their platform

807
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: to speak to injustice, to speak to you know, social

808
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: justice overall. Just how powerful that can be because people

809
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: are much more likely to receive it if it comes

810
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: from someone they already admire.

811
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: It's our turn now in the long march toward freedom.

812
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: And one of the ways in which you do that

813
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: also personally, is through your podcast splot Tics.

814
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: Did I say that politics is politics politics in general?

815
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: The whole point of the podcast was to connect the

816
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 2: dots between sports and politics. And as much and as

817
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: popular as it is for sports fans to say either

818
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: I don't want politics and sports or I just want

819
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: to escape.

820
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 5: Politics is all around you in sports, whether you like

821
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 5: it or not.

822
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: One of the biggest stories of the past few weeks

823
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: was that the Department of Defense trying to erase Jackie

824
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: Robinson's legacy, and that is very much a sports story

825
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: as it is a political story because of what Jackie

826
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: Robinson stood for, and also an opportunity for people to

827
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: understand that his legacy stretches beyond just him in a

828
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: lating Major League Baseball in nineteen forty seven, which by

829
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: the way, was what some twenty some years before we

830
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: got the Civil Rights Act, in the Voting Rights Act.

831
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: It was before you know, preceded you know, Brown versus

832
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: the Board of Education.

833
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 5: So it's sports is often in a position to.

834
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: Lead YEP in these difficult areas, and so I just

835
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: wanted people to remind or to be reminded that that

836
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: relationship has been there from the starts. Politics have literally

837
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: always been a part of sports.

838
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: We have a project called Realize the Dream, which is

839
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: to unite the country through service with one hundred million

840
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: hours of service collectively together pledged and committed by my

841
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: father in law's one hundredth birthday and twenty twenty nine.

842
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: One of the things that we are incredibly honored to

843
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: say is that every major sports league has signed up

844
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: to join in the Realize the Dream initiative. So we

845
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: have the NFL inspired change, we have have Major League Baseball,

846
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: and we also have the NBA that are all coming

847
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: together with us, joining forces with us to get the

848
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: world out and get into communities to do some service together.

849
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk sports.

850
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: Let's just two women talking sports. So I have to

851
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: ask before we wrap up. We're getting ready to add

852
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: into the NBA playoffs, correct, So what do you think

853
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: will be the some of the biggest stories from the playoffs.

854
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately they won't involve Atlanta, so I'm sorry.

855
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'll tell you that I do believe.

856
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: Shay Gilgess Alexander, who plays with Oklahoma City Thunder, I

857
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 2: think he's going to be the MVP.

858
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 5: He's getting quite a chase from NICOLEA.

859
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: Jokisch who plays for Denver, but I think it will

860
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: be his and that'll be interesting because I believe that

861
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: would make it the fifth straight year that the NBA

862
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: MVP has gone to a foreign born player, which is

863
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: going to create a lot of interesting conversations around the league.

864
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 5: I'm sure.

865
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: I do think this is Oklahoma City's year to make

866
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 2: the NBA finals.

867
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 5: They're going to get there. They've been the best.

868
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: Team all season, and I know that there is a

869
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: level of doubt because they're still young, and people kind

870
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: of have a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact, like, oh, okay, see,

871
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: sure they are. You know, I think they faced a

872
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: lot of that last year, but I think after losing

873
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: and being a year more experienced, it feels like them.

874
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be a okay see Boston Celtics final.

875
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: And as much as it pains me to say, because

876
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, we're from Detroit so we're Pistons fans, I

877
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 2: do think Boston is going to win the title again.

878
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: But the good thing we have to look forward to

879
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: is our Pistons will be in the playoffs. We have

880
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 2: been irrelevant for too long. We were the worst team

881
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: in NBA last year. We I don't know if we

882
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: set the record for most losses in a brow. Yeah, yeah,

883
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: we set and it was a hell of a turnaround

884
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: to go from that to us now being firmly solidly

885
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: in the playoffs. Like that, I'm if you ask me

886
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: the thing I'm most excited about for the NBA playoffs,

887
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: it is seeing the Pistons back in the playoffs.

888
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat thing.

889
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 7: Okay.

890
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 4: So we've had a lot of conversations, We've had a

891
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 4: lot of topics here, but this one, we gotta go

892
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 4: radical transparency on me. Okay, okay, no hold bart, okay, okay,

893
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 4: let's talk sports.

894
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 5: I'm already scared.

895
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 4: What is one opinion that you hold to no matter what,

896
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 4: no matter how much the woman next to you disagrees with.

897
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 6: One thing in sports?

898
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 7: In sports, yes, you gotta.

899
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 6: Disagree with her sometimes. And I imagine it's.

900
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 7: Not this is this is one that we go back

901
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 7: and forth with.

902
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 6: Oh I want to hear it.

903
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 4: I want to hear what you debate on in sports.

904
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 9: So I'm a Pistols fans, I'm a I'm a detrader.

905
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 9: But during the Michael Jordan days, I rolled with the bulls.

906
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 4: So our listeners, there's a thumb going down for this

907
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 4: powerful woman.

908
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 7: It's right, yes, continue.

909
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 9: Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. So as

910
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 9: a kid, I was born in an eighty So as

911
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 9: a kid, I mean, that was my hero. So when

912
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 9: the Pistons walked out after they lost, after years of

913
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 9: terrorizing Michael Jordans and you know, being super physical and

914
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 9: basically cheating, beating them up.

915
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 7: They.

916
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 9: Walked, they walked out. They didn't shake his hand after

917
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 9: years of beating them up. And Jamel, she's a homer.

918
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 7: She takes up for the Pistons, and to me, right

919
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 7: is right, Wrong is wrong. I don't care if Jamil

920
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 7: is wrong. She's wrong even though she's my wife.

921
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 9: But the Pistons were wrong, and she she wants to

922
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 9: argue with me.

923
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: I will always I'm standing firmly on the heel of

924
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: the Pistons had every right to not shake the bull's

925
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: hand because during that same series, Michael Jordan called the

926
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: Pistons illegitimated champions. It's not our fault. You couldn't beat us, okay,

927
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: and I get it. That's what's set off, That's what

928
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: set everything in motion, is that the Pistons fell some

929
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: kind of way because he completely devalued their championship and

930
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan is so petty. That is the reason why

931
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: Isaiah Thomas wasn't on the Dream Team.

932
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 5: It was because we go.

933
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 6: That's what the Street Committee is.

934
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: We have loved having the two of you be so open,

935
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 4: so farable, so funny, so supportive to each other, so uplifting.

936
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: Jamal sharing your story, how you've chosen to write it

937
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 4: and rewrite it again, how you've chosen to own it

938
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 4: and live it. The courage, the consequences, the leaning forward

939
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 4: in support, championing together in such a beautiful example. Thank

940
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 4: you for living your legacy and for sharing it with

941
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 4: all of us here today.

942
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you guys. We appreciate you all

943
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: having us.

944
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 3: Thank you all so much, so very much, thank you

945
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 3: for joining us.

946
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us

947
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: at my Legacy Movement on social media. New episodes drop

948
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At its core,

949
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community

950
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production

951
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: distribute it by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Haywood

952
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app

953
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may

954
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: you find inspiration to live your legacy