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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about Israel.

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Speaker 5: Ryan a new video from October seventh, including this Bankavir

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Speaker 5: right right.

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Speaker 6: Ben Gvier is showing up in this video, and we'll

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Speaker 6: kind of read some of the because it's it's in Hebrew.

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Speaker 6: So there's a documentary crew who's or news crew who's

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Speaker 6: in there filming on the morning of October seventh, as

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Speaker 6: the army is putting together its plan for a counter

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Speaker 6: attack and for the then and then a counter attack.

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Speaker 6: So let's let's roll this and then we can kind

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Speaker 6: of read it for you right now, one person says,

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Speaker 6: I would bomb the entire Gaza border, hit them with

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Speaker 6: a blow so they'd have a real problem. It looks

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Speaker 6: like they're on it. Somebody else says, I wrote this

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Speaker 6: to a mirror. They're not even getting fighter helicopters. I said,

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Speaker 6: no on Gaza, break it all apart, along with the

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Speaker 6: soldiers who were abducted like that. That and the helicopters

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Speaker 6: were then were dispatched, and you see a lot of

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Speaker 6: the result of what those helicopters did. And then Ben

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Speaker 6: Giverer comes in and says, wait, wait are you filming me?

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Speaker 6: You could film when I give you permission, So they

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Speaker 6: that's that's when they.

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Speaker 7: Shut that down.

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Speaker 6: We know we have other evidence of there being hostage

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Speaker 6: situations in a kibbutz where they just with a tank

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Speaker 6: shell everyone in there killing, killing the Israelis and inside

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Speaker 6: as well, there's all these you know, infamous photos of

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Speaker 6: cars that have uh that were fleeing the the.

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Speaker 7: Nova rave just completely burnt to a crisp.

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Speaker 6: And we also know that the Palle Stadium fighters came

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Speaker 6: across the border with you know, a K forty seven's yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: not the kind of thing that could torch like an

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Speaker 6: entire row of cars, like there was shelling in the morning,

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Speaker 6: some shelling from gods that could could if you if

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Speaker 6: a shell directly hits a car, okay, but an entire

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Speaker 6: highway filled with cars, and there has been some footage

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Speaker 6: of from the from the apaches of them hitting hitting cars. Unsure,

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Speaker 6: unsure whether or not there were hostages inside.

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Speaker 5: I thought the government actually admitted or seated that in

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Speaker 5: a small way.

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Speaker 6: So in a small way, now we have this footage

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Speaker 6: of them basically saying, just do it and if you

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Speaker 6: and if you hit the people who these Raelis were abducted.

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Speaker 7: That's the part of it.

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Speaker 6: This is the so called Hannibal doctrine, which says that it's.

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Speaker 4: Better explain that because that's what's saying that.

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Speaker 6: The Hannibal doctrine says that if there is a potential

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Speaker 6: of a hostage situation or a prisoner of war situation,

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Speaker 6: that it is better to kill all the Palestinians and

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Speaker 6: the Israeli they're trying to take hostage, then get into

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Speaker 6: a place where you're negotiating a prisoner exchange. So it

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Speaker 6: is more important, according to this doctrine, for the Israeli,

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Speaker 6: the Israelis to continue to hold men, women and children

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Speaker 6: in administrative detention in torturous conditions than it is to

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Speaker 6: let an Israeli live, and then enter into negotiations in

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Speaker 6: which some of those people that you're holding without charge

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Speaker 6: and torturing on a daily basis are released.

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Speaker 4: And this is of course, as Israeli.

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Speaker 7: Elections are twenty sixteen, they said they were no longer

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Speaker 7: that the Handibal doctument. It's too is bad, We're not

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Speaker 7: doing that. It's terrible. Clearly they're still doing it.

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Speaker 5: And again we're coming up on three years since October seventh.

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Speaker 5: Then now that there's an election around the corner in Israel,

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's I would be surprised if it

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Speaker 5: was coincidence this was dropping at that this time, wonder right,

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Speaker 5: because I mean Natanya, whose coalition is that including Ben

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Speaker 5: Gavir and Smotritz and the like, is one of the

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Speaker 5: biggest complaints about nt YAHOO, and so it seems like

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Speaker 5: that would be timed in a particular way to.

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Speaker 4: Hurt the election.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know what.

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Speaker 4: I would imagine this will this will.

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Speaker 6: You would hope, you would hope there are people on

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Speaker 6: the Israeli right who support this policy.

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Speaker 4: Certainly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean Nashanya, who has a lot to

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Speaker 5: answer for on October.

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Speaker 6: Seventh, right, Yes, focus on October seventh is not great

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Speaker 6: for him period, not not whatsoever.

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Speaker 5: Meanwhile, Ryan's eager to get your take on this because

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Speaker 5: the publisher over at drop site has been informed she's

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Speaker 5: no longer a member of the Committee to Protect Journalists.

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Speaker 5: We can put the next element up on the screen,

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Speaker 5: and a lot of this is going once again right

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Speaker 5: back to Israel, Palestine.

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Speaker 4: What the heck is happening here?

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Speaker 7: So the.

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Speaker 6: CPJA is under has been under a lot of pressure

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Speaker 6: to redo the way that it counts journalists who've been

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Speaker 6: killed in Gaza by Israel, and so there was this

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Speaker 6: internal debate over how they're going to do this, and

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Speaker 6: at the core of the core of the debate is

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Speaker 6: what about a journalist forever. The way that CPJ has

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Speaker 6: done it, and they're more restrictive than other organizations, has

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Speaker 6: been to say what you do is what matters. If

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Speaker 6: you are performing journalism, you're not fighting, you have a

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Speaker 6: video camera, you have pen and paper, you're writing or

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Speaker 6: producing video for a news outlet or for freelance, you're

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Speaker 6: a journalist.

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Speaker 7: And if and we are.

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Speaker 6: The Committee to Protect Journalists, and we are here to

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Speaker 6: protect you. What Israel has been arguing is that there

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Speaker 6: are certain news organizations that are linked to what they

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Speaker 6: say are terror groups and what the US and Israel

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Speaker 6: designated is terror groups. So pretty much every pretty much

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Speaker 6: every political faction in Gaza is designated as a terror

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Speaker 6: group by either Israel or the United States or both.

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Speaker 6: And pretty much every party has a news affiliate, just

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Speaker 6: like Israel has state media. Israel has Israeli Army Radio,

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Speaker 6: which is has employs a lot of journalists. The BBC

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Speaker 6: is owned by the UK. There's NPR and PPS, but

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Speaker 6: I guess that's there's state money going. Maybe the federal

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Speaker 6: government doesn't fund them as much as they did, but

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Speaker 6: you get the idea. There's RT for instance Russia today,

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Speaker 6: there's fun fund of it. There's Turkish state media.

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Speaker 7: Like the idea.

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Speaker 6: Of state media or affiliated media is a is a

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Speaker 6: very common thing, and so organizations like CPJ have always

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Speaker 6: drawn a very bright line that have said just because

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Speaker 6: you have a problem with Turkey, or with Britain, or

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Speaker 6: with the United States or with Israel, does not mean

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Speaker 6: you have license to kill a journalist who works for

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Speaker 6: an affiliate of the of the British government or the

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Speaker 6: American government is Raetly government or or Hamas, or Palestinian

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Speaker 6: is lama Jahad or PFLP or like Palestine today, like

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Speaker 6: just because you write for a news organization that is

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Speaker 6: affiliated with Palstini is lama Jahad or in Southern I'm

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Speaker 6: going you recently had several journalists that were killed because

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Speaker 6: they said, well, you're working with You're working for a

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Speaker 6: news organization that's affiliated with hesbelow or has sympathies with Hesbelo. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: And the distinction has always been no, if you're a journalist,

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Speaker 6: doesn't matter if you work for RT. Like Ukraine, for instance,

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Speaker 6: would not be allowed to kill a journalist for RT

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Speaker 6: simply because they work for RT. You can disagree with that,

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Speaker 6: and Ukraine might try to kill them. But if you're

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Speaker 6: the Committee to Protect Journalists, your job is to protect

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Speaker 6: the journalists, not to defend what they say. Who they

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Speaker 6: say it on behalf of whether or not there their

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Speaker 6: columns that they write are are good or fair or

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Speaker 6: even accurate like that. It's not for CpG, it's determine.

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Speaker 7: It's like it's that was it the Voltaire quote?

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Speaker 6: You know, I don't agree with what you say, but

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Speaker 6: I'll defend your right to say it. But applied to journalists,

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Speaker 6: I don't. And so what they're what what Israel's saying? No, No,

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Speaker 6: if they're affiliated with any of these terrorist organizations that

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Speaker 6: we call terrorist organizations.

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Speaker 4: Non state that's what they would say.

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Speaker 5: It's different than Russia, Ukraine, it's a non state terrorist.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think Ukraine would say it's not like that.

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Speaker 6: They consider Russia to be terrorists, right, So why should

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Speaker 6: then Russian journalists be, which.

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Speaker 4: Is what's harry about CpG then.

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Speaker 7: And the other.

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Speaker 6: Nika made the point in internally.

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Speaker 7: That the a n C was considered considered a terror group.

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Speaker 6: The African National Congress, Nelson Mandela's group was designated a

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Speaker 6: terrorist group until like two thousand and eight or something like.

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Speaker 6: And of course they had a journalist, they had a

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Speaker 6: media wing.

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Speaker 7: So if the.

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Speaker 6: You know, white South Africans considered Nelson Mandela's organization to

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Speaker 6: be a non state terror group, should they then be

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Speaker 6: able to kill journalists like bombajournalists ten and kill everyone

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Speaker 6: in it because there's one person that writes for the

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Speaker 6: a n C linked organization. The civilized world has settled

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Speaker 6: this question with a resounding no, no, we're not doing this.

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Speaker 6: And so now there's real pressure on CPJ. Nika asked

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Speaker 6: for a vote on this internally, that's uh. And then

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Speaker 6: they responded by saying, oh, by the way, we have

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Speaker 6: your term is up, and she's like, well, I resign

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Speaker 6: and protests anyway.

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Speaker 7: Convenience can't can't fire me.

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Speaker 6: I quit right right, So, you know, and good for

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Speaker 6: Nica for you know, standing up for the kind of

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Speaker 6: essence of what CPJ is supposed to do protect. It's

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Speaker 6: in the name, it's a committee to protect journalists.

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Speaker 5: And as we can put what Middle East Monitor is

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Speaker 5: reporting here, this is going to be yeah, D three.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: This comes obviously as they report Israel has killed more

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Speaker 5: journalists than any other modern conflict. And I think that

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Speaker 5: is a reference to CPJ's numbers. I think that's per CpG.

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Speaker 6: They have actually lower numbers than some of some other

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Speaker 6: organizations because they have a tighter they have a tighter definition.

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Speaker 6: You've also now, if now, if somebody wants to say

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Speaker 6: this particular journalist was actually a fighter and they want

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Speaker 6: to present evidence to that, okay, fine, present which they

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Speaker 6: have in in case, and then go ahead and present

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Speaker 6: that go ahead and present that evidence is that's different

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Speaker 6: than saying all journalists who work for any news organization

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Speaker 6: that's affiliated with somebody you don't like are fair game

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Speaker 6: to be killed. Some people have responded by posting photos

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Speaker 6: of Israeli journalists sitting on tanks, wearing military uniforms, holding weapons,

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Speaker 6: because almost every Israeli journalist has served in the idea

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Speaker 6: of at some point. Some are in in the reserves

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Speaker 6: as they're doing it, and others have on air participated

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Speaker 6: in firing weapons and detonating civilian homes, like they'll film

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Speaker 6: themselves like pressing the button.

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Speaker 7: And the contrast between that.

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Speaker 6: And what they then accused the Palestinians of is so stark.

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Speaker 6: There's also something about there's also a dehumanizing element to it.

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Speaker 6: Like one of the journalists that they killed, who was

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Speaker 6: legendary journalists for twenty plus years, he visited a a

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Speaker 6: I think it was a Hamas kind of training camp,

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Speaker 6: and with a bunch of other journalists reported on it

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Speaker 6: and while there took some photographs like with the Bazuka.

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Speaker 6: That's the kind of thing that every American journalist when

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Speaker 6: they go to visit a military base they do that

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Speaker 6: go look at any American journalists like Twitter.

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Speaker 7: Basically they'll like sit on a tank.

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Speaker 6: They'll like pose with the soldiers, like it's almost childish,

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Speaker 6: like they think it's kind of cute and cool to

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Speaker 6: like get these little souvenir photos of themselves, like sitting

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Speaker 6: on a tank. But we understand, because we understand that

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Speaker 6: they're human, that that's that's just what it was. They

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Speaker 6: were in their journalistic capacity, they were visiting an American

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Speaker 6: military base, took a picture.

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Speaker 7: On a tank.

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Speaker 6: That does that. That does not make them a tank commander.

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Speaker 6: But because we don't see Palastinians as fully human, we

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Speaker 6: just see this flat portrait. If we see a Palestinian

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Speaker 6: on a tank, or we see a Palscinian holding a weapon,

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Speaker 6: we say, oh, terrorist, obviously terrorist. Doesn't matter when they

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Speaker 6: held it, why they held it, what's going on Because

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Speaker 6: there's no full portrait of the person as a person.

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Speaker 6: It's just oh, Palstinian, probably a terrorist. Oh now we

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Speaker 6: have a picture of them with a gun, and then

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Speaker 6: you'll have these like Aton Fishberger and others like we'll

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Speaker 6: post that picture of the person on Twitter until they

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Speaker 6: are hunted and killed with just completely decontextualized and then

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Speaker 6: when they're hunted and killed, they'll repost that phone and

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Speaker 6: be like, look we got we got another terrorist.

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Speaker 7: It's like you, no, you didn't.

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Speaker 6: You killed an unarmed civilian journalist who at one point

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Speaker 6: in his life was neuro weapon.

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Speaker 7: That's all.

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Speaker 5: Of course, it's been hard for us to even know

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Speaker 5: what's happening in Gaza because the journalists that are there,

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Speaker 5: people are observing it there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, of course.

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Speaker 6: And it's the goal for us to not know what's

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Speaker 6: what's being done.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, at this point, unfathomable lack of access.

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Speaker 5: That's also inexplicable from just a if you really cared

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Speaker 5: about people having the ability to document and observe and

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Speaker 5: see what's happening on the ground because you think it

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Speaker 5: suits your purposes, you think it makes your argument look correct,

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Speaker 5: then this decision makes no sense.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's move to Columbia Ryan, where one d Vide

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Speaker 5: Rojas is reporting. We're joined once again by one David Rojas.

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Speaker 5: He has a columnist at unheard as am I, by

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Speaker 5: the way, so that's a fun little unheard reunion here.

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Speaker 5: One David Rojas, thank you for joining us from Bogota,

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Speaker 5: where you have been covering the Colombian election, although we

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Speaker 5: just asked you what the vibe is like in Bogata

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Speaker 5: and you said World Cup.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, a lot of excitement about all the games. Everyone

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Speaker 8: watchs in every single game, so it's exciting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure it is electric down there now. Gusava

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Speaker 5: Petro obviously is on his way out in early August.

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Speaker 5: August seventh, here's just a little clip of Gusava Petro

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Speaker 5: from recent days. He's let's just put this. I'm just

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Speaker 5: gonna roll it.

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Speaker 4: Let's let's roll this. This is e one. There he is.

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Speaker 4: You can see him looking like.

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Speaker 5: Well, he's a rapper, I guess Ryan, which is oddly

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Speaker 5: appropriate because the man who's going to be replacing him,

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Speaker 5: Abbalardo de la Espriea, has some of his own music

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Speaker 5: videos that we would be remiss if we also show.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is two.

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Speaker 5: You can see the new incoming Colombian president who defeated

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Speaker 5: Petro's would be air in his own music video, looking

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Speaker 5: as Colombian is I think a person can look as

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Speaker 5: fair to say so, Juan da vide Rojas, what the

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Speaker 5: hell is going on?

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Speaker 4: Petro?

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Speaker 5: Obviously, Petro's party obviously loses De las Brio, now referred

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Speaker 5: to as the Colombian Bukele, who also has I think

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Speaker 5: a pretty interesting Malay streak tossed into the Bukele streak.

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Speaker 4: What is going on in Colombia?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so Columbia just had its presidential runoff like a

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Speaker 8: week ago and it was the closest election in Colombian history.

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Speaker 8: The difference between both candidates was about two hundred thousand votes,

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Speaker 8: and de las Vieja narrowly defeated the governing party candidate,

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Speaker 8: Evan sib close ally of Petron. Oh boy, yeah, where

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Speaker 8: does star with this guy? In a way. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 8: kind of a right wing version of Petro. He's really eccentric.

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Speaker 8: He's actually they're both from the Columbia's Caribbean coast. This guy,

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Speaker 8: you know where to start, Like he's a mob lawyer.

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Speaker 8: He made millions representing like drug dealing, dealing right wing

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Speaker 8: Narco paramilitaries, Maduro loyalist businessman Alex Saab, who was extradited

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Speaker 8: to the US a month ago in May, and former

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Speaker 8: president I Actually he represented the leader of the auc paramilitaries,

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Speaker 8: said Mancuso, who said that him and i Lado were

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Speaker 8: childhood friends. He was also extradited to the US and

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Speaker 8: served time abroad. So yeah, this guy, like, you know,

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Speaker 8: I've compared him. He's clearly taken influences from three people, Trump, Milay,

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Speaker 8: and Bukele. So with Bukeal, it's like his appearance, the

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Speaker 8: tough on crime stuff. You know, crime is a serious

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Speaker 8: problem in Columbia. From Trump, like the fact that he's

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Speaker 8: an outsider businessman. He says, as soon as he's sworn

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Speaker 8: into office, he's gonna you know, you know, put it has.

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Speaker 8: He has a raft of executive orders that he's gonna

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Speaker 8: put through to like deregulate and like privatize a bunch

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Speaker 8: of stuff. But from me, Lay, I think he's most

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Speaker 8: similar to me Lay because just like Melay, before he

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Speaker 8: ran for president, he was like an elite libertarian. He's

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Speaker 8: very socially progressive on a lot of issues. His favor

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Speaker 8: of abortion used in Asia adoption for same sex couples.

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Speaker 8: He was an open atheist. But then you know, he

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Speaker 8: had to conservatize himself because that only appeals to like,

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Speaker 8: you know, a narrow slice of the population. So like

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Speaker 8: now he's like an ultra Catholic Colombian patriot. His slogan

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Speaker 8: was firm for the homeland, which is kind of farcical.

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Speaker 8: He's a tri citizen of Italy, the US and Colombian,

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Speaker 8: hasn't lived hasn't lived in Columbia for the past ten years,

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Speaker 8: so it's it's pretty sad.

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Speaker 6: Then his wife says something like the best part about

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Speaker 6: this is if we lose, we just go back to

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Speaker 6: Miami exactly.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, if they lose, they can go back to their

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Speaker 8: mansions in Florence and Miami. He loves Trump. He said

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Speaker 8: that he donated Marii Avidas campaign, the Miami representative, and

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Speaker 8: he says he's a registered Republican in the US had

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Speaker 8: voted for Trump. So it's like, wow, this is this

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Speaker 8: is a lot. I've called him literally a US asset.

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Speaker 6: So right, So okay, so how on earth do if

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Speaker 6: you're the Colombian left you lose to this guy? And

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Speaker 6: compare it to the Moranum Party, Compare it to the

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Speaker 6: Mexican left, which is dominant, which has one, you know,

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Speaker 6: huge swass of the middle class over to its over

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Speaker 6: to its side. Claudia Scheinbaum's popularity, you know, stratospheric. Why

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Speaker 6: is she doing so well compared to the Columbian left

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Speaker 6: which lost to a gangster's attorney from South Florida.

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Speaker 8: Perfect question. It's gonna take me a while to get through.

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Speaker 8: So I will say, like Petro did a lot of

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Speaker 8: things that I think were objectively really good, and they're

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Speaker 8: similar to what Amlo and Shinbam did. He raised the

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Speaker 8: minimum wage around like forty percent in real terms. Actually

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Speaker 8: this year, in nominal terms, the minimum wages raised twenty

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Speaker 8: three percent, the most for a single year in Colombia's history,

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Speaker 8: and this created a panic from the media the opposition

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Speaker 8: that this would spike inflation and create unemployment. None of

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Speaker 8: that happened, and Petro was actually due to leave office

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Speaker 8: as the most popular Colombian president since you with his

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Speaker 8: approval writing it was like close to fifty percent. Now,

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Speaker 8: admittedly there's like a low bar, pretty low bar for

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Speaker 8: recent Colombian presidents. He passed the labor reform, or reduced

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Speaker 8: the work week to forty two hours from like forty six.

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Speaker 8: Workers also have like more overtime like before, Like would

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Speaker 8: you cut that so that like on holidays you only

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Speaker 8: got like seventy percent as opposed to like one hundred

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Speaker 8: percent of overtime. There's an agrarian reform to like restore

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Speaker 8: land lost to people from the armed conflict were displaced

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Speaker 8: by violence. I interviewed a guy who clips were posted

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Speaker 8: for drop site this Petro support was a former soldier actually,

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Speaker 8: and he said that his hometown in rural Columbia had

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Speaker 8: really been transformed by Petro's government, which I found really inspiring.

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Speaker 8: So that's the good. What's the bad. Well, we'll start

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Speaker 8: with security. I like to make a difference. They're related,

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Speaker 8: but there's a difference between like common crime, you know,

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Speaker 8: just like muggings, burglary, cel phone theft, stuff like that,

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Speaker 8: and like big cities and like organized crime dealing with

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Speaker 8: like these militarized cartels, insurgent groups, right wing paramilitaries in

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Speaker 8: the countryside and so on, like the common crime front.

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Speaker 8: Petro like really came at this from like a progressive

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Speaker 8: like criminal justice reform ideal, which I think is a

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Speaker 8: little dumb. Like he condemned building prisons because he didn't

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Speaker 8: want to perpetuate mass incarceration, and it's like, dude, you're

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Speaker 8: the president of the you know, the Land of Pablo,

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Speaker 8: for the love of God, you need to throw you know,

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Speaker 8: criminals in jail. There was this youth influencer Westcode who

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Speaker 8: asked him and they las Brieta, Hey, if like a

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Speaker 8: you know, criminal broke into your house, would you do.

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Speaker 8: Petro gave this long philosophical answer that you know, criminals

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Speaker 8: are victims of society and you know he has a

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Speaker 8: family like whatever. The Las Piedia was just like do

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Speaker 8: with him as us te fit. So it's like anyway

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Speaker 8: on on like organized crime. H he had this interesting

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Speaker 8: idea I supported at the time. I just think the

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Speaker 8: execution was terrible. Total peace which was the you know,

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Speaker 8: the government would negotiate peace deals or terms of surrender

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Speaker 8: with multiple arm groups at the same time the e

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Speaker 8: L n uh fark dissidents offshoots of the AUC and

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Speaker 8: there were a lot of problems with this. The follow

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Speaker 8: through really wasn't there a lot of these armed groups

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Speaker 8: like just kind of took advantage of the government to

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Speaker 8: fortify themselves and sat Baila actually was the architect of

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Speaker 8: this policy and unfortunate like on the campaign, like you know,

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Speaker 8: he was like, I'm the peace candidate, I will never

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Speaker 8: say no to peace, which is fine, but you know

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Speaker 8: he never said like if he'd really make any changes

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Speaker 8: to the policy, take a harder line with some of

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Speaker 8: these groups that really haven't shown an interest towards peace,

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Speaker 8: like the ELM. And then the other important thing, in

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Speaker 8: my opinion is on energy. Petro is what I call

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Speaker 8: a climate fundamentalist. He thinks that, you know, we have

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Speaker 8: twelve years to save the planet, and so he completely

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Speaker 8: destroyed the state owned oil company Eco Petro, which is

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Speaker 8: the number of the largest company, the single largest company

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Speaker 8: in the country, with the largest union too. And I've

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Speaker 8: argued this actually caused like stagflation. In his first few years,

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Speaker 8: there was really high inflation and really low economic growth.

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Speaker 8: You know, it would make sense because there is a

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Speaker 8: huge driver of growth in the country. Around half of

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Speaker 8: government revenues come from the oil sector, and Petro just

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Speaker 8: said there will be no more oil exploration. He put

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Speaker 8: a bunch of like climate academics and like degrowth types,

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Speaker 8: this super corrupt crony as the head of the Eco

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Speaker 8: Petro's board. And so this was just a complete disaster.

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Speaker 8: I talked to like one taxi driver who was like,

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Speaker 8: he's destroying the jewel of the republic, and it's like, dude,

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Speaker 8: you're a leftist. You're supposed to defend state companies, not

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Speaker 8: destroy them. And so that's a really important difference with

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Speaker 8: like Mexico. You look at like what I'm loo and

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Speaker 8: shinebam I've done. Claudia is a climate scientist and she's

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Speaker 8: actually expanding fracking inside of Mexico to show up the

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Speaker 8: country's energy sovereigntry. Petros called that a crime against humanity,

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Speaker 8: but look like the data is in, it's been You know,

435
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 8: there's a lot of fears about water, understandably so, but

436
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 8: if you do things correctly, a contamination of water tends

437
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 8: to be pretty minimal. It's just a lot of like

438
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 8: environmental propaganda in my opinion. So another thing of this

439
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 8: is the last thing, Shane bar I'm actually Inner Security

440
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 8: Minister of hard Foods. They've taken a really aggressive policy

441
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 8: against crime has gone up a ton.

442
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 7: Let's get let's get that crime in a second.

443
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 6: Let's get to get to that in one mon when

444
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 6: don't it so unpack what you said about the the

445
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 6: energy policy. So what is what was the effect of

446
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 6: Mexican energy policy on what you know, middle class and

447
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 6: working people in Mexico paid for energy, And what was

448
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 6: the effect in Columbia of Petro's energy policies on what

449
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 6: people people they're paid, because I think that that's what

450
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 6: probably matters to people in the end is what they're

451
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 6: what they're seeing kind of flow out of their their accounts.

452
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, there were points during

453
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 8: Omlo's term where like there were Americans going to Mexico

454
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 8: to fill up across the border because it was cheaper

455
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 8: over there. And uh like Mexico used to import all

456
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 8: of its gasoline from the US. That's actually gone down

457
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 8: to ton like fifty Unfortunately, uh natural gas around three

458
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 8: fourths of Mexico's natural gas still comes from Texas, and

459
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 8: that's a big reason to expand fracking, you know. And

460
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 8: and Shanebom says she wants to do that responsibly, which

461
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 8: I load. But in Columbia, on the other hand, like

462
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 8: you know, gas prices have gone through the roof. And look,

463
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 8: I believe in climate change. I think that an energy

464
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 8: transition is important, and I think that's good. It's good

465
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 8: that Petro has you know, invested in like solar panels

466
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 8: and stuff like that, but it can't come at the

467
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 8: expense of workers. And so I would just say that,

468
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 8: you know, both sides of the political spectrum, especially in

469
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 8: the US, don't demonize a particular like energy source, don't

470
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 8: demonize renewables. I think what like the Republicans did with

471
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 8: the IRA was completely dumb, especially after like invading Iran

472
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 8: at the same time, like, don't demonize fossil fuels and

473
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 8: like try to shut down pipelines. We need energy, period,

474
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 8: And I think about this holistically.

475
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 7: So what happened in Columbia, like to energy prices, Yeah.

476
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 8: That's another thing. Petro like he restored them towards the

477
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 8: end of this term, but you also cut like energy subsidies,

478
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 8: so gas prices shot up. He actually said something like, oh,

479
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 8: the poor don't drive, so what does this matter? And

480
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 8: you know, there's this there's this thinking that it's like

481
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 8: if you make like driving more expensive, then people will

482
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 8: be forced to like buy electric vehicles. There's some truth

483
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 8: to that, but you also cause a lot of pain

484
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 8: to people.

485
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 6: So it feels like similar to the mistake that McCrone

486
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 6: made in France that a yellow ves protest where they

487
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 6: were they kind of led with lead with the climate

488
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 6: and told people to kind of suck it up for

489
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 6: the for a good purpose saving the planet, you know,

490
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 6: saving you know, the place that humanity will needs to thrive.

491
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 6: But in the short term, I think most people, as

492
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 6: the Yellows protest and other protests around the world showed,

493
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 6: people don't necessarily believe I think that you're actually saving

494
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 6: the planet. They think people are just getting richer with

495
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 6: the money that you're the extra money that you're spending

496
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 6: on energy prices.

497
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 7: So is that to you? Is that how significant.

498
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 6: A distinction between Mexican left wing success and Colombian left

499
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 6: wing failure? Is it to say that under the Mexican

500
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 6: left they drove down, they made things more affordable for people,

501
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 6: and Petro, at least in some circumstances did not.

502
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think that's absolutely correct. It's undeniable. I mean, actually,

503
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 8: you look at like energy prices overall, for instance, like

504
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 8: for homes, and they've been pretty stable in Mexico, which

505
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 8: is rather remarkable.

506
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 6: Okay, so then you wanted to talk about the crime

507
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 6: difference between kind of Mexico and Colombia.

508
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 7: So when I cut you off, go ahead, Well.

509
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 8: On security, Yeah, Claudia and she has the superstar. They're

510
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 8: calling him Batman. It's funny. In Mexico, they're like selling

511
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 8: towels with like, oh my god, such's likeness. On like

512
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 8: these shirtless muscular bodies that they like sell dolls of him.

513
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 8: He's actually talked about as a contender for Mexico's next president.

514
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 8: Is extremely competent, probably the best security minister that Mexico's

515
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 8: ever had. And I mean Mexico's homicide rate has gone

516
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 8: a ton, but not just that, like the Mexico's incarceration rate.

517
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 8: The country's prison population has gone up a ton. And

518
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 8: to quote a mutual friend of ours who will remain anonymous,

519
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 8: the problem is, like the progressive method just it doesn't work.

520
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 8: Incarcerating people if it's of criminals, like you know, not

521
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 8: of minor offensives, but like actual criminals is a good thing.

522
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 8: And so in my opinion at least, and you actually

523
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 8: see there there's a there's a progressive opposition party in

524
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 8: Mexico and they criticize the government a lot because they

525
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 8: think that, you know, they've gone too hard on crime.

526
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 8: If you can.

527
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 6: Believe that, no I can believe that. So what has

528
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 6: been politically? How is that party fared with that criticism?

529
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 8: You know, the Mexican opposition, they're really screwed because it's

530
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 8: just kind of this octopus that's extremely incoherent there's a

531
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 8: there's may say Antos, which I just mentioned, there's the

532
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 8: right wing Bond and there's like the centrist uh PRI

533
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 8: and so like the Bond wants to go even harder

534
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 8: on crime, MC wants to go softer on crime. The

535
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 8: PRE is just corrupt and so they don't really know

536
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 8: what to do. They're really in a in a difficult bind.

537
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 8: And that also helps the the governing coalition a lot.

538
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 6: All Right, Wanda vid Rojas, always always a pleasure to

539
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 6: have you. Well, we'll we'll put the piece in our newsletter,

540
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 6: which you should sign up for at oh first dot com.

541
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 6: I'm talking to you directly, but also to the audience

542
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 6: watching Breakingpoints dot com.

543
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 7: Get get the free newsletter. It's great.

544
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 4: Thanks, We'll take anyone last thing I'll say really quick.

545
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 6: Uh.

546
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 8: This guy he's certainly fail similar like with think on

547
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 8: like energy on the left and stuff like that with progressives.

548
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 8: He's completely behold in the like market fundamentalism. He wants

549
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 8: to like privatize most state companies who knows, maybe even

550
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 8: Echo Petro and like fire forty percent of state employees.

551
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 8: This is going to lead to mass protests in a

552
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 8: few months. How do I know this because this is

553
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 8: exactly what's happening in all the other right wing.

554
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 6: Governed countries, and in the meantime, US tax payer money

555
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 6: will be bailing him out, and US oligarchs will capitalize

556
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 6: on the privatization of those assets. So thanks want to

557
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 6: be well for telling us what both is happening and

558
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 6: what will happen exactly.

559
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 7: All right, talk to you later.

560
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 6: I don't really know how to describe this segment that

561
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 6: we're about to do, other than that it might change

562
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 6: the way that you think about a lot of different things.

563
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's go with that.

564
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 4: This is Pete Rangram.

565
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 5: Like if you look at the bottom bar today, it

566
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 5: says mk ultra hannibal brains.

567
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 7: All right.

568
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 6: So joining us is Shalenbot from Georgetown Medical School. I

569
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 6: you did two years in medical school since then even

570
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 6: taken a couple of years off because of the discovery

571
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 6: that you made as a medical student, which was just

572
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 6: now published in what is it, the Journal of.

573
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: Cellular and Molecular Neurobiology, and Ryan.

574
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 6: Reads every day I read I'm thumbing through this and like,

575
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 6: this is fascinating stuff, but it's shaking up our understanding.

576
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 6: I think of the way that the brain interacts with

577
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 6: the rest of the body and has some interesting raises

578
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 6: interesting questions about Western versus Eastern medicine, even that you

579
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 6: may have that some of the things that you've discovered

580
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,959
Speaker 6: may actually suggest that those the Easterners might have been

581
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 6: onto something more than we thought. And then they've been

582
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 6: doing it for thousands of years, not because they're crazy,

583
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 6: like maybe we're the crazy ones.

584
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 7: So, first of all, welcome.

585
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 6: I know you've you've been watching the show for a

586
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 6: long time, and we've been communicating for a couple of

587
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 6: years now, because when you first discovered this, you reached.

588
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 7: Out, You're like, you know, I complete what I've found.

589
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 6: I'm like, I've doesn't make a lot of sense to

590
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 6: Maybe you've successfully explained it, I think over the years.

591
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 7: But so it's a pleasure to have you on here.

592
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. Yeah.

593
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, so you've you brought some props too, Yeah, I have.

594
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 6: So what I found fascinating was that, for the most part,

595
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 6: science medic and medicine kind of believes they've discovered everything.

596
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 7: About the body that there is to be discovered. Yeah,

597
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 7: you found out that that's not exactly true.

598
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the thing is is that a lot of

599
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: what Western medicine is. Bilton is at least in the

600
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: anatomical sense. It's what a lot of anatomis did like

601
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: way back in the day, right, like especially like in Europe,

602
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, where they just had the cadavers out onto

603
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: tables and they just dissected. And so for the longest time,

604
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: we just kind of thought, like, we know what's in there.

605
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: You know, people have gone through everything, you would think, so, yeah,

606
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: you would think, you would think, I don't know. I

607
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: just I have a tendency for like hyper curiosity. I

608
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: guess someon would call it. And so when I was

609
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: in I guess my first two years in medical school,

610
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: I was a TA in the anatomy lab. Right, so

611
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of cadavers, but we use the term

612
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: like donors just to you know, be respectful. There's a

613
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: bunch of donors, like already in the anatomy lab. And

614
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: so something that was really interesting. One of my buddies

615
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: actually showed me a paper and it was a discovery

616
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: I think in I want to say twenty twenty four

617
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: January twenty twenty four, and it was in rats they

618
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: found this drain that sits like right behind your nose

619
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: and it drains cerebrospinal fluid, which is just the juice

620
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: that your brain sits in. But it doesn't drain it

621
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: into blood, which is like the you know, the notion

622
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: that medicine is kind of built on. It actually drains

623
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: into these other vessels that are called lymphatic vessels.

624
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 5: And so they thought it drained into blood. Yeah right,

625
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 5: you it was found in the rats, is that it

626
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 5: was draining into lymphatic vessels exactly, right, So the that's significant.

627
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, And so the idea is is like, oh,

628
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: like medicine's built on this idea that there's no quote

629
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: unquote lymphatic connection to the central nervous system. And so yeah,

630
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: that's where I kind of all started from that paper.

631
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm really interested in this. My friend

632
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: was like, but you can't find it, and like, you know,

633
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: we're just like went on from there.

634
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 7: So this gets into the autoimmune world.

635
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 6: So what's what's the lymphatic Like describe for us, what's

636
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 6: the lymphatic system and what is its relevance to how

637
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 6: our body functions?

638
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? The long story short, I would say, is that

639
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: it's just like immunology, right, like it's where your immune

640
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: cells travel, right, Like I would say, like if from

641
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: your immune cells like had some kind of freeway to

642
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: hop on to get from one point to the audience Jones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

643
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: they would, Yeah, they would use the lymphatic system. And

644
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, the lymphatic system has a bunch of connections

645
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: to a bunch of you know, different organs, Like you're

646
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: blean your gut, that's probably a significant one, like gut

647
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: associated lymphatic tissue GAULT for short. You know, the potential

648
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: idea of like immune connections from your gut to your brain,

649
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: the gut brain axis. You know, all these like kind

650
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: of emerging ideas might be related to this.

651
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 6: And so your buddy says, Okay, we found in rats

652
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 6: that the brain is draining to the lymphatic system. Yeah,

653
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 6: I bet you can't find it in human sure.

654
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so you took that challenge.

655
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 7: You took that challenge. So, like how did you go

656
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 7: about looking Yeah?

657
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: So it started off. You know, there was a lot

658
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: of like trial and error kind of ways to look

659
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: for exactly like you know, is this connection real or not?

660
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like research, like background research you

661
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: have to do online to see like all right, what

662
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: did these anatomists do back in the day, Like what

663
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: kind of methods you know, can we do? Basically, the

664
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 1: long story short is like after a bunch of trial

665
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: and error and like a lot of help from peers

666
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: and a lot of help from like like mentors, you know,

667
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: we developed this like dissection protocol that really just boils

668
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: down to like die and hydrogen peroxide. You know. The

669
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: there was this idea that like, oh, you can't inject

670
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: stuff into formal and fixed donors because I'm sorry, you

671
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: can't inject stuff into emphatics in formal and fixed donors

672
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: because the vessels are like super tight. But we just

673
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: used hydrogen peroxide because it like bubbles, right, So it

674
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: just like opens up the vessel a little bit and

675
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: let the dye kind of just like travel up to

676
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: the brain and see like all right, where is it going?

677
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 7: But you held like the bodies like upside down a

678
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 7: little bit.

679
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: Like there's a there was like a block underneath the thorax, right,

680
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: and so like once that injection's in the head's like

681
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: kind of back a little bit. So the dye just

682
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: like travels back. You just you know, leave the die

683
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: overnight kind of thing, and it just like gravity does

684
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: all the work, if that makes sense.

685
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 5: Obvious question, But why hadn't anyone else probe that potential

686
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 5: connection before? And what response did you get as you said, well,

687
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 5: we're going to look into this.

688
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good question. So I think it's

689
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: too There's two kinds of aspects to this, right. One,

690
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: these vessels are like super tiny, right, like if we

691
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: were to operate on them in real life, like literally

692
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: that is called microsurgery, right, And I just I don't know,

693
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: I like dissecting small stuff, right, and so among us right,

694
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I think that's the first thing, right,

695
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: is that like when you're like looking at stuff in

696
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: a human body, Right, there's really small vessels and there's

697
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: stuff that you can miss, right, that's surrounded in this

698
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: like adhesive tissue called fashion. That's like a word that's

699
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: thrown around a lot. I feel like what was the

700
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: second part of your question?

701
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 5: Just what response did you get as you said, I'm

702
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: looking into this, Because what's interesting to me about that

703
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 5: is there was this sense that we knew it wasn't

704
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 5: we don't know what we don't know. It was that

705
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 5: we kind of thought we knew how something.

706
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 4: Worked, and you said, well, actually maybe it's different.

707
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think, yeah, there's two different responses, right.

708
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: I think people who are interested in this area they

709
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: found it like extremely interesting, right, They were like, oh wow,

710
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: this is this is like really interesting stuff and like,

711
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of like an emerging space, right,

712
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: So people are like excited about it. So that was

713
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: on one hand. On I guess, like another hand, probably

714
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: a lot of like people being like, I don't know,

715
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: maybe this med student's getting a little too excited, which

716
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: is like reasonable, I am pretty excited about this stuff, right,

717
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to deny that, but you know, there's

718
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: always and this is something I'm still learning, like right,

719
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: like to not like overclaim anything and stuff like that,

720
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: and so like I don't know, at someone at my age,

721
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: when you're like, oh I think I found something, it's

722
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: like is this kid okay? Like we don't, like we

723
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: don't really know, and yeah.

724
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 6: So yeah, so you've got some you got some props

725
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 6: here for us, Yeah, I do.

726
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 8: So.

727
00:39:54,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 6: Originally people believed that the blood drained into the it's

728
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 6: the real fluid into the blood into blood vessels, yeah,

729
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 6: which has particular implications for how we treat all sorts

730
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 6: of brain related and immune you know, immuno related disorders. Yeah,

731
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 6: now you find out that's not true that it drains

732
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 6: into the lymphatic system, Like what Yeah, is there a

733
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 6: way to like demonstrate this with what you brought in?

734
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 6: And like, then what does it tell us about medicine

735
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 6: in the body that what possibility does this open up

736
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 6: for people with autoimmune disorders?

737
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: Sure?

738
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, or Alzheimer's or anything else?

739
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: Sure yeah. Yeah. So the first thing is that, uh,

740
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, this entire kind of I don't know a bit. Uh,

741
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: it's still like like CSF still drains into blood, right.

742
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: This idea that I introduced called the cerebral hypothesis. Right,

743
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: it has this idea of like CSF not only drains

744
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: into blood, but it's blood and lymph and there's probably

745
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: different diferent functionalities, right, like like the drain like one

746
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: one set of pipes is for one day and one

747
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: set of pipes is for another thing.

748
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 5: Right.

749
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, I introduced a hypothesis in the discussion of

750
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: this paper, and it's called the cerebral and hypothesis, And

751
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: it's just essentially like the anatomical network of where CSF

752
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: is produced all the way to draining out into the body. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

753
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 7: So go ahead up said again, so you just so

754
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 7: what's the hypothesis.

755
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: So the hypothesis is called the cerebral and hypothesis. The

756
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: it's basically an anatomical framework for where CSF is produced. Right.

757
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: So it's actually this thing right here, right, So this

758
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: is the ventricular system. Uh, It's produced in the chloroid plexus,

759
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: which is this like little red streak. Right, So there's one,

760
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 1: there's there's right here, and then there's like right here,

761
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: and then right here and then down here, right. So

762
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: CSF is produced there and this is essentially like the

763
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: deepest part of your brain.

764
00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 7: Right.

765
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: And this looks like a struck, sure, but realistically it's

766
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: not like it's it's walls of a pocket of juice. Right.

767
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: So it's produced here, then it exits kind of down

768
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 1: here where we call the median and lateral apertures. That's

769
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: just a fancy term for holes.

770
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 7: Right.

771
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: So from the holes, it goes into the space that's

772
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: like around here, right, and that's called the subarachnoid space.

773
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 4: And where does that map onto the.

774
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is actually where it drains after the subarachnoids.

775
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 4: On the head towards the bottom. Yeah, okay, so that

776
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 4: makes sense.

777
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the significance is that before it before

778
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: the CSF exits here and then you know, drains into here.

779
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: It goes through this system that was recently discovered by

780
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: doctor Mike and Nttergard. And this is this system is

781
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: called the glomphatic system, and the glomphatic system essentially just

782
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: cleans your brain. It like runs through your brain and

783
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: cleans the entire thing. And then this is what drains it. Okay, right,

784
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: and the like the pictures that I sent right, like

785
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: the pictures of the fountain.

786
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 7: Right, Oh yeah, let's put that up.

787
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is just cup one, right, and then

788
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: it exits into cup two, right, which is the subarach

789
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: space and lymphatic system, and then the Maningoo lymphatic vessels,

790
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: which is also a recent discovery. That's that's this prop right,

791
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: this prop that is just like an open head. And

792
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: then the stuff that we found in anatomy lab is

793
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: the fourth one, the nerve adjacent lymphatic vessels exiting foramena,

794
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: we didn't show any proof of like CSF exiting right,

795
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: So this is literally just a hypothesis. But from there

796
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: you have your peripheral lymphatic circulation, which is like all

797
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: that stuff I was talking about earlier, like your gut

798
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: associated lymphatic tissue and whatnot.

799
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 5: So, yeah, into Ryan's question about how this might open

800
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 5: up frontier for autoimmune treatment.

801
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 4: What is that going forward?

802
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 5: What were we doing that might change whether it's you

803
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 5: were talking about Alzheimer's as well.

804
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Alzheimer's is probably the biggest one. So Alzheimer's is

805
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: built on the amyloid and like Tao hypotheses, right, And

806
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: these are been hypotheses for decades and a lot of

807
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: like the infrastructure you know, for research is kind of

808
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: built around these things. The thing about amyloid and taw

809
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: is that they describe the protein build up that occurs

810
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: in your brain. Right, So they just describe like this

811
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: protein that just like appears in your brain and then

812
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: causes the neurodegeneration.

813
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 7: That's their theory.

814
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. So that a lot of money has

815
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: been you know, going into that, A lot of money

816
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: has been like poured into that. The thing about I

817
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: guess those hypotheses is that they explain the proteins really well, right,

818
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: And it's like there's been a lot of really great

819
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: work that's been done about Alzheimer's. The issue is is

820
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 1: that there's there's there's not a lot being talked about

821
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: the flow of those proteins and like the drainage of

822
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: those proteins, and the idea of introducing something like cerebral

823
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: lymph is if we look at both the protein build

824
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: up and the drainage system, we might be able to

825
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: get somewhere closer to Alzheimer's, like something crazy like plastic

826
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: surgeons doing surgeries for Alzheimer's in the neck.

827
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 5: Right, But is that just because there's it's traveling in

828
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 5: different pathways.

829
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: Effectively exactly right, and it's just like improving that kind

830
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: of like connection, Like that's the dream essentially, you know,

831
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: is that for something like that to be a possibility

832
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: one day?

833
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 7: So how does something like acupuncture fit into this?

834
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good question. So acupuncture is really

835
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: interesting and I think I think it's kind of emerging too.

836
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff we do is like we

837
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: look at like traditional practices and then we just like

838
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: validate them even though people knew about them, you know,

839
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: for a long time. But there's two really interesting peer

840
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: review studies, one about like acupuncture helping long COVID patients,

841
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: and long COVID has a lot to do with like,

842
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: you know, brain stuff, right, and it also coincidentally it

843
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: helps with like things like lymphiedema and like the brain

844
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: fog that comes up like during lymphiedema. So there you

845
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: have like two completely different things, right, like long COVID

846
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: and limphiedema, right, which is just like your limbs like

847
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: swelling up because you're not getting good drainage. But it

848
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 1: kind of goes back into the hypothesis of like, all right,

849
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: maybe there's just like a build up in this like fountain.

850
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the zign makes sense.

851
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know, Eastern medicine is always

852
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 6: talking about the bodies flow. Yeah, exactly right, and you're

853
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 6: like you're like, actually, quite literally, this stuff is needs

854
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 6: to flow, and if it's not flowing, that could be

855
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 6: producing the brain fog.

856
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

857
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 6: And and also like Alzheimer's just like an extreme form

858
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 6: of brain fog.

859
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like protein just building up, right, It's like

860
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 1: the sink the saying is probably just clogged.

861
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 6: So yeah, so then the idea would that be, so

862
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 6: acupuncture and others like somehow it works to like help

863
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 6: unclog the sink. But then Western medicine could come in

864
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 6: and say, well, here's how we're going to brute force

865
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 6: clean this.

866
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 7: Think like, so, what what.

867
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,479
Speaker 6: Are the potential Oh yeah, I see is that could

868
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 6: come around?

869
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: I think I think realistically it's like you know sometimes

870
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: in life when uh, you know, people have already gone

871
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: to a certain point where it's like, all right, this

872
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: protein's like building up. Right, These like Western interventions are

873
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: really important, right, really important to make sure that like

874
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: all right, like we got to fix your drainage, we

875
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: got to fix whatever is going on, right, But there's

876
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: something to be said about maybe a lot of these

877
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: practices maybe preventative. Right, Like we talk about things like

878
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: exercise and exercise and like good diet, right, Like obviously

879
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: that's good for you, right, But maybe the reason that

880
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: they're good for you is something about improving flow. You know.

881
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: Maybe that's just.

882
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 6: A hypothesis, like if you keep the body in motion, yeah,

883
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 6: and you know, you keep your nutrition.

884
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: It's like if you if you let's say, for example,

885
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: if you exercise, you're literally getting your blood pumping, right,

886
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: and then you know if we put that fountain back

887
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: on them.

888
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 5: Like the reflecting pool, right, Like you need to keep

889
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 5: the water circulating to prevent the algae bloom.

890
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 7: Right, you throw that one back on that, that little fountain.

891
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 4: This is the algae bloom.

892
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: If you're exercising, right then, like that's good for cup two, right,

893
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: because you're getting blood flow into your brain, so it's

894
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,479
Speaker 1: like your your heart rate's going up, you're cleaning more

895
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: of your your perivascular space, which is just like the

896
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: space that's right next to the blood vessels.

897
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 3: Right.

898
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: The whole the whole point of it is like saying like, okay,

899
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: well exercise improves flow. Meditation, for example, increases flow in

900
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: cup two, perhaps, right, meditation that Yeah, it's a really

901
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: good question. I don't know except I saw a paper

902
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: on it. Okay, but it does yeah, yeah, mindfulness meditation,

903
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: it does increase. It does increase like the flow of

904
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: like cup to from from my understanding, I could be

905
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 1: wrong on that, but yeah, but yeah, it's it's.

906
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 7: Just you get things moving.

907
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just get a lot.

908
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 6: A lot of people will say that they just they

909
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 6: feel better if they have worked out that day, and

910
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 6: some people say, well, it's the endorphins or whatever, but

911
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 6: what you're saying is that it could also just be

912
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 6: the general your body is just getting cleaned, cleaning itself out.

913
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's like this, this less cluttered.

914
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: Right, This flow mechanism is literally like cleaning your brain out, right.

915
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: And so a lot of what you know, uh medicine

916
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: has been built on and it's don't get me wrong,

917
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: it's incredible work, right, but it's been very neuron only right,

918
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: like neuronal focus, right. And I guess what all you

919
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: mean by that? Like, I guess what I mean is

920
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: like when you picture a neuron, you picture like the

921
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: electrical currents of a cell, right, like you picture you

922
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: just picture like the electricity, right, all these like networks,

923
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: these neural networks, but none of this is really neural networks.

924
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: This is like the structure. Yeah, Like this is all

925
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: just like flow right like, and it's flow that has

926
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: This is i think, for the first time, giving flow

927
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: like way more defined structure than it has in the past.

928
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: Instead of just saying, oh, there's a pool of pool

929
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: of csf right that your brain just sits in, this

930
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: is more saying like, this is a flow that starts

931
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: here and ends here, and I don't know, let's see

932
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: if it's right or not.

933
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 5: Does this raise any questions about consciousness or any new

934
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 5: frontiers in that question of what it means to be

935
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 5: consciously thinking?

936
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: So consciousness is really interesting because a lot of what

937
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: consciousness sciences is built on neural networks, right, and like

938
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I actually published a theory a couple

939
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: of months ago. Right, It's like it's such a it's

940
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 1: like a long name that I kind of laugh at now.

941
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: But it's called glimpho vasomotor field theory GVF for short, Right,

942
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: I just say GVF. I look back at that, I'm like,

943
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: I wish I don't know if I wish I had

944
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: named it that. But GVF theory is essentially just a

945
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: theory that you can, like, people can read it if

946
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: they're interested in it.

947
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 7: Right.

948
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: But the long story short on that theory is that

949
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:17,479
Speaker 1: when you have fluid flowing that has ions in it, right,

950
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: those ions will make a current.

951
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 8: Right.

952
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: And this is just like outside of you know, outside

953
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: of brain stuff.

954
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 5: Right.

955
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: So all this is really saying, all the GVF theory

956
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: is really saying is that if you're having ions in CSF, right,

957
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: and that CSF has a structured flow, then maybe maybe

958
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: there's an electromagnetic field, right, and maybe those fields affect

959
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: the neurons maybe. Right, it's just like a theory slash hypothesis, right,

960
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: Like who knows.

961
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 7: And that could be the production of consciousness.

962
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: Potentially it could affect it, right, it could scaffold it. It

963
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: could scaffold those like neural networks, right, because they sit

964
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: right next to each other, right, like all these drainage systems,

965
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: like they all sit very like close to each other.

966
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 4: And that's what EMF is measuring.

967
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I'm not sure.

968
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, how does that interact with artificial intelligence?

969
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a really good question. So this

970
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: is something I could go on, you know, hours about this. Right,

971
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence is neural networks at that's all like artificial

972
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: intelligence is, right, it's neural networks that are learning and

973
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: building on themselves. Right. There's ongoing debates about whether or

974
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: not AI is conscious or not, Like we have no

975
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: idea and some people say that AI is conscious and

976
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: then other people say AI isn't conscious. This framework, I think,

977
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: if validated, right, would be a significant step in saying

978
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: that AI probably will not be conscious, right, because consciousness

979
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: is more than just neural networks, right, Like, there's there's

980
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: an inherent flow that is present in our bodies, right

981
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: that not just you know, humans have like all the

982
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: biology has, right that I can't really replicate, you know.

983
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: So I would say that's probably the biggest thing.

984
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 6: Why couldn't it replicate it with some type of fluid

985
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 6: that has electro.

986
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 4: Rock in here and then some.

987
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 6: Synthesis, some ionic intervention.

988
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: That's a question for people. I have no idea.

989
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 5: I mean, at the end of the day, it would

990
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 5: still be I suppose a like a synthetic version if

991
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 5: you if you like, tried to recreate a human network.

992
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: It's a good conundrum, though. Yeah, it's a it's an

993
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: interesting I see what you're saying, Like it is. It's

994
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: a fascinating like what if? But I don't know, it's

995
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: also kind of scary. So I don't know, Maybe maybe

996
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: we shouldn't talk about it.

997
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 6: And so so what are the have you talked anybody

998
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 6: yet who is exploring how to take this discovery and

999
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 6: turn it towards therapies for anything long covid Alzheimer's Yeah,

1000
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 6: like autism anything.

1001
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: Sure, Like science is like science is a relatively slow institution,

1002
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't know, the reality of my

1003
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: situation is like now that this is kind of all

1004
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: published and wrapped up, I have to like be a

1005
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: medical student, you know, like I have to study for

1006
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: boards and like do things like that.

1007
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 7: Right you start in the in the fall again with your.

1008
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: March March, Yeah, sorry, March, So like, you know, realistically,

1009
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: what I'm hoping is that this now that this paper

1010
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: is published, and people can you know, see the hypothesis

1011
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: the like scientific community, can you know see like whether

1012
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: or not this is like a reasonable thing, and then

1013
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: and then go from there. I think ideally though, the

1014
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: the in the perfect kind of world, you know, scientists

1015
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: look at this, and clinicians and physicians look at this

1016
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: and kind of a new emerging space like comes out

1017
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: of it. That would be like, you know, the dream.

1018
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 6: It seems like it might Have you heard from Huberman

1019
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 6: or any of the other popularizers of this kind of thing, No.

1020
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 7: No, no, maybe maybe he watches let's see watching. We'll

1021
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 7: connect him.

1022
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 5: We really, we really appreciate you coming in here. And

1023
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 5: I all started because you were emailing back and forth

1024
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 5: with Brian.

1025
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah right. I appreciate you guys having me and like

1026
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: just being able to share all this because I think

1027
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this stuff is it's

1028
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: really important, I think, but it's also kind of slow,

1029
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's like one of those things

1030
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: where like to have you know, people out there care

1031
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: about this, it's it means a lot.

1032
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 5: I think it also brings people to trust, like medicine science.

1033
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 5: When you're here explaining to us how you arrived from

1034
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 5: shore at a point b like, it's it's super interesting,

1035
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 5: and I think it gives people an insight into the process.

1036
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: That means a lot. Yeah, that really means a lot.

1037
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 7: Thank you, Well, thanks for coming Yeah, well thanks for

1038
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 7: coming by.

1039
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 6: Yeah all right, and we'll in our newsletter, which everybody

1040
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 6: should sign up for at Breakingpoints dot Com will put

1041
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 6: links to the paper. But also the more digestible for

1042
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 6: a lay audience. Was is a neuro daily.

1043
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 7: I think it's.

1044
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: Called yeah, Daily Neuron.

1045
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 6: But Daily Neuron wille that article regular, yes, reading it,

1046
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 6: reading it every day obviously and well so yeah, fascinating

1047
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 6: stuff and we're gonna we'll keep up with this because

1048
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 6: I hope that I hope that some money starts flowing

1049
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 6: to this, to this area, because there seems to be

1050
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 6: it seems to be ripe for you know, serious breakthroughs.

1051
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: I you know that's the dream.

1052
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm getting old, so hurry up.

1053
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for joining us.

1054
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: We appreciate it, of course. Yeah, thank you for having me.

1055
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 4: That does it for us. On today's edition of Breaking Points, Ryan.

1056
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 7: It was of the show.

1057
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 4: We went on a journey.

1058
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 7: We did indeed.

1059
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 6: All right, Well, crystalin soccer back tomorrow or are you

1060
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 6: in Emily? Crystal Emily tomorrow? What do you guys call that?

1061
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 4: It's the gardening Show, the Garden of the show, going.

1062
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 7: Back for the gardening Show. I guess I'll see you

1063
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 7: guys on Friday.

1064
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 4: Sounds good to see you guys then