1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: Hey, it's Sarah at Bloomberg. We've got reporters in more 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: than one hundred bureaus around the world, including twenty four 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 2: in Asia, and that's where we're going today today on 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: the Big Take, I'm handing the mic over to my 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: colleague Wanha in Hong Kong. Here's one. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: We are on Prata Rut Bumpin' Road in downtown Bangkok, 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: where Jeffrey Liu has opened his first hot pot restaurant. 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: He recently immigrated to Thailand from China and he's still 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: learning how to pronounce the street's name. 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 3: But Batala pompaint, Batta la pomp paint. 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Locals say the street resembles the belly of a dragon, 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: and for Chinese that's good func shui for business because 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: it draws money in. That's why Liu started his restaurant 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: here and with so many other Chinese businesses moving in 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: the road is also known by another name, New China Street. 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 4: You know what I mean. Chinatown is old and our 18 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 4: street is full of new Chinese restaurants and stores. You 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 4: hear Chinese spoken on the street, and it's also close 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 4: to the Chinese embassy. 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: Liu is thirty five and ambitious. He moved to Thailand 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: late last year, leaving behind his family in chung Qing, 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: one of China's biggest cities, and even though he's just arrived, 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: he's got big plans. He wants to open three more 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: hotpot restaurants this year, and he's planning to move his 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: family to Thailand permanently next year. 27 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 4: I had visited Thailand about eight times before moving here. 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 4: I like Thailand a lot. There isn't much to miss 29 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 4: about China. 30 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: Liu is hardly alone in saying farewell to China. 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: The number of people leaving the country in the past 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: two years reached three one hundred and ten thousand for 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: each year. 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: Lu Lu Chin is Bloomberg's senior editor on Asia Investing. 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: And that's sixty percent more than the average for the 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: decade through twenty nineteen. What's interesting about this wave is 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: we haven't seen this kind of uptick in migration for 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: years and for the past two years. Suddenly there's a 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 3: huge uptick compared with the past decade. 40 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: Today on our show, a new wave of Chinese are 41 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: looking for the exit. Why are they leaving and what 42 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: does it say about China's future. This is the big 43 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: take from Bloomberg News. I'm wan ha. Many Chinese who 44 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: are leaving at the moment are part of the middle class, 45 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: a group who've seen their incomes rise along with China's economy. 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: In the last two decades. 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: China rapid economic development overlapped with an error where the 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: Communist Party maintained relatively loose control over private lives, and 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: that was a period when the middle class thought they 50 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: were better off than their peers even in the US. 51 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: In some ways, thanks. 52 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: To China's economic miracle, pockets of the population became extremely rich. 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: At one point, China was producing billionaires faster than any 54 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: other country, at the rate of two a week in 55 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, but that boom started to fade and the 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: mood shifted. One of the most significant pivots was in 57 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, when President Shijinping and the Communist Party 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: adopted a policy called Common Prosperity. 59 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: S Cheni. 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: That was aimed to close the wealth gap and lift 61 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: the country's poorest. 62 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 3: And come seizing Ping for a second term, and he 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: looks at the country and says, wait a minute, China 64 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: at its core is a communist country and it needs 65 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: to go back to its roots. Even though some people 66 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 3: get rich, the affluent is still the minority, and that's 67 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 3: why he brought in the goal of common prosperity to 68 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: restore that balance. 69 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: That Common Prosperity policy has spooked investors and many Chinese. 70 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: The new policy brought crackdowns on multiple industries, technology, property, education, 71 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: and even gaming. 72 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: From today, children in China will only be allowed to 73 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 4: play online video games for three hours a week. 74 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: Crackdown on d group underscores Beijing's determination to rein in 75 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: big tech. 76 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: And the government launch of sweeping crackdown on the wonder 77 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: billion dollar private education industry. 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: Well, the trickle effect is that when China cracks down 79 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: on these sectors, it's not just impacting the private companies 80 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: and the holders behind it. It actually impacts real people. 81 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: Think of all the people who are working up and 82 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: down the supply chain. So the effect is vast reaching. 83 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: The crackdowns stretched for years, and just as China's middle 84 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: class was starting to really feel the pinch from the policies, 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: the pandemic struck and it hit a real nerve. 86 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: So one of the people we talked to was a 87 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 3: person called Jason Swin, who lived a very good life, 88 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 3: very wealthy in Shanghai before the COVID lockdowns. He already 89 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 3: sent his daughter and wife to London because his daughter 90 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: was studying there, and for him, he thought that if 91 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: he stayed away from politics, kept a low profile, he 92 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: would still have a very good life in China. And 93 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: then the pandemic hit and it really broke him when 94 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: his pair died just weeks apart, and even though he 95 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 3: tried everything, he was not allowed to see them for 96 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: one last time. And he told our colleagues that when 97 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 3: he was holding their ashes in his hand, that was 98 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: the moment when he made up his mind that he 99 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 3: was going to leave China. And so a few weeks 100 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: after that he sold all his assets and then relocated 101 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 3: to London. 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: Fast forward to today, the China boom is long gone. 103 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 4: The market has been absolutely hammered. Developers over the years 104 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 4: have building a way too many houses. 105 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: If you travel around China see half complete buildings everywhere. 106 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 4: High you look at. 107 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: Both the economic and the social problems that China is facing, 108 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: things are only unfortunately getting worse. 109 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: Some six trillion US dollars in market value has been 110 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: wiped out from Chinese and Hong Kong's since its peak 111 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Concerns about China's economic future has 112 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: people like Jeffrey Lu looking elsewhere for opportunities. 113 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 4: After the pandemic. You know, the Chinese economy has been 114 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 4: going down here and every industry is just so competitive, 115 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 4: So I just wanted to explore and have fun. 116 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Coming up after the break. Chinese immigrants leaving and taking 117 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: their assets with them. What does it mean for an 118 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: already struggling economy. We've heard the reasons why people are 119 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: leaving China. You've got a slowing economy, fears over new 120 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: policies to redistribute wealth, coupled with the trauma of living 121 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: in China during the pandemic. Lulu says, it becomes an 122 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: exodus of capital as well. 123 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: It's one hundred and fifty billion US dollars flowing out 124 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: of China in twenty twenty three alone, based on estimates 125 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: from Natochus also Henley Partners. They had reports saying that 126 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: they estimate China saw the biggest millionaire exodus in twenty 127 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: twenty three as well. 128 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: And the number of Chinese immigrating isn't expected to slow 129 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: down anytime soon. 130 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: Looking forward, it's estimated that at least seven hundred thousand 131 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: people will leave the country in the years up to 132 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. 133 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: Those figures put China number four on a list of 134 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: countries with the largest net immigration now Lulu. If you 135 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: look at that list, which includes third world countries like 136 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: Pakistan and Bangladesh, China really stands out well. 137 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: China is the world's second largest economy, doesn't have any 138 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 3: warfare or natural disasters that could cause widespread hunger and 139 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: the resurgence of net migration sugg as. The people are 140 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 3: voting with their feet. 141 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: So we've got seven hundred thousand people looking for the 142 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: exit sign. Where are they going? 143 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: Well? For the seven hundred one thousand people estimate, then 144 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: that's just for US, Australia and Canada, But based on 145 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 3: the interviews we've done and the research that we looked into, 146 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: they're also showing up in other places that are not typical, 147 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 3: like Vietnam, Japan, New Zealand. 148 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: And A big draw of these unconventional destinations are the 149 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: inviting policies and business opportunities. Countries like Portugal, Thailand and 150 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: Indonesia are attracting immigrants with so called golden visas. Those 151 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: who can invest big chunks of their money in these 152 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: countries will get full residents or even citizenship in return. 153 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: While this outflow of people and money is bad news 154 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: for China, many of the new countries people are flocking 155 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: to are benefiting from the immigration and investments. 156 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 3: So in Vietnam, for example, it's provided job opportunities, higher 157 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: wages of senior managers that factories can earn as much 158 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: as sixty five K dollars a month, and that's about 159 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: sixteen times the average local wage. 160 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: But not all the changes are well received. The influx 161 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: of Chinese is also creating tension in some places. 162 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: In Thailand, it's caused resentment due to rising prices of property, 163 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: and there's complaints about Chinese disrespecting local customs. Another often 164 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: heard complaint is that Chinese don't use local suppliers and workers. 165 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 3: So the money circles within the Chinese business circle, and 166 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: it's a very delicate balance, and whenever you have different 167 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 3: ethnicities coming into a new community, it's bound to disrupt 168 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: the balance. 169 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: Back in China, while the number of migrants is a 170 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: drop compared to a population of one point four billion people, 171 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: the immigration reflects a larger concern about China's future. 172 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: For the people we interview, they are worried that the 173 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: Chinese middle class life that they once enjoyed is in danger. 174 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 3: The reason that a lot of middle class Chinese thought 175 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: that they were better off than their US counterparts was 176 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 3: because they had upward social mobility. Their lives were not stagnant, 177 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: and they always thought that their children would have a 178 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: better life than theirs. Call it the China Dream, if 179 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: you will, and right now people are really questioning whether 180 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: the so called China dream is sustainable. 181 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh. 182 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Young Young and Naomi Um. 183 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: The reporters for this story are Patham Sing, Mowana Jung, 184 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: Lee Wing, Zulu Win Gwinn Wing, Lisa Do, David Scanlon, 185 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: and Tao Jung. It was edited by Caitlin Kenney and 186 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: mixed by Young Young and Bronica Rodriguez. It was fact 187 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: checked by Tiffany Soy. Senior producers are Naomi Shaven and 188 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: Gilda de Carley. We get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso. 189 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: Nicole Beemster. Brower is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is 190 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcast. Thanks for listening to the Big Take. 191 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday.