Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's up.
Speaker 2: Family. It's your girl to mek a d Valories and.
Speaker 1: It's your boy mighte son that general and this is
Speaker 1: t M I T mek you and my Song's Information, Truth,
Speaker 1: Motivation and Inspiration.
Speaker 2: Formerly known as street Politicians new name us uh.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: I'm in the struggle.
Speaker 1: Where is the struggle will be in.
Speaker 2: The struggle of my entire life. Never in my life
Speaker 2: have I experienced this type of struggle.
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: I decided that I will no longer pern my hair.
Speaker 1: And what made you to come to that eclase?
Speaker 2: And so all of the inside of my head hasn't
Speaker 2: been purned in I don't know ten years. But around
Speaker 2: the edges and in the top part, which is what
Speaker 2: they call the coverage for your I always put a
Speaker 2: little bit of texturizer, which is the same thing as
Speaker 2: a perm but they just it sounds a little bit
Speaker 2: bad to just make sure it lays down because when
Speaker 2: you sweat, between you and I sweat and I sleep.
Speaker 2: I don't sweat when I work out, which is crazy,
Speaker 2: but when I sleep, I sweat. And you know, certain
Speaker 2: things you do the summertime, different different activities it gets
Speaker 2: and just wear and tear. It starts to get all
Speaker 2: crazy and you gotta rush it. And I don't know
Speaker 2: how to do anything related to here. I can do anything.
Speaker 2: I could make one corn row. That's it. I not
Speaker 2: know will yeah, I literally, I literally can only make
Speaker 2: one corn roll.
Speaker 1: I will never forget somebody that's always talking about that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. When I say don't know how to
Speaker 2: do anything, I see this ditty our friend she was
Speaker 2: to tell me of the day, like, bruh, you don't
Speaker 2: need per you need to learn how to do your edges.
Speaker 2: First of all. Edge control I'm looking for. I use
Speaker 2: my l It's a little green bottle I do and
Speaker 2: it works a little bit better. But it might just
Speaker 2: be me because I have like horse hair that my
Speaker 2: edges I don't do well. Other people I see it
Speaker 2: between is Diddy and Jennifer Williams and all these people.
Speaker 2: They be slicking it down and they be all cute.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work for me like that, So I'm not
Speaker 2: good at doing any of that. So that's why I
Speaker 2: need a little texturize it, because then it just kind
Speaker 2: of leads down all the time. But now I'm doing
Speaker 2: I'm going natural and I did this. I made this
Speaker 2: decision because I was riding in the car with Ben Crump.
Speaker 2: You may or may not have been there. You may
Speaker 2: not have, but I was riding the car with Ben
Speaker 2: Crump one day and I was like, cause, you know,
Speaker 2: be sewing a company that has perm right, And so
Speaker 2: I was asking him, like, since you started sewing them,
Speaker 2: and since this lawsuit is in progress, have they changed
Speaker 2: the formula of the PERF Because obviously they know that
Speaker 2: PE have definitely deference that the research is clear, like
Speaker 2: there is a clear connection between the verb and people
Speaker 2: who have cancer, different types of cancers. That has to
Speaker 2: feel it, right, So I asked him have they changed
Speaker 2: the formulan he was like, well, no, it's the same
Speaker 2: formula because if they changed the formula, it's like admitting guilt, right,
Speaker 2: So why would you do that in the middle of
Speaker 2: illegal bottle. Maybe some things have changed because as a
Speaker 2: company goes on, they do little things, but in terms
Speaker 2: of really really really making sure that it's not harmful
Speaker 2: to people, no, it hasn't been done. And he was like,
Speaker 2: you're not putting that stuff in your hare, are you?
Speaker 2: And I was a sudden there, like, oh no, maybe
Speaker 2: I want to rule was it was.
Speaker 1: It's fair.
Speaker 2: I mean, he faba, we said this to me like
Speaker 2: over a year ago, and you just come it too.
Speaker 2: Well what I did. I didn't just come to the
Speaker 2: conclusion Oh okay, I'm just trying. Yeah. Well No, what
Speaker 2: happened was all summer, I wore my hair basically in
Speaker 2: braids to allow for are the purn to grow out.
Speaker 2: So I did that the whole sum Then I got
Speaker 2: back into, you know, put in my hair. I like
Speaker 2: my tresses every now within and I'm like, hey, you
Speaker 2: see how you see how I like that? So and
Speaker 2: then when I got back into wearing my hair, it
Speaker 2: was really bad because I as soon as I take
Speaker 2: my braids out, I immediately put a little texturizer, do
Speaker 2: my weve and you know whatever. And I didn't. So
Speaker 2: when it came to holiday time, beginning right before Thanksgiving,
Speaker 2: I was like, bro, take it all out. Shout out
Speaker 2: to Delasia, my hair braider, and Alicia, my hairstylist. They
Speaker 2: figured it out. They made me look good. But then
Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, now it's out, and I gotta
Speaker 2: go back to my other hairstyle. And I don't know
Speaker 2: how to do that without her. So in November Thanksgiving time,
Speaker 2: I put the braids back in my hair and I
Speaker 2: held on to the for as long as I can.
Speaker 2: But I can't. I can't. So now I'm like, you
Speaker 2: gotta start the process, all right, And you just got
Speaker 2: to so here Ryan, And it's bad. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: this morning, I was, I was, I was.
Speaker 3: It was bad.
Speaker 2: The struggle is real. But they well, thank you. I
Speaker 2: appreciate that they say that it trains itself at the while,
Speaker 2: like you know, so all the sisters that's out there. Actually,
Speaker 2: we're gonna do a little bit more on this topic
Speaker 2: because Cascade Productions, our production team is has been involved
Speaker 2: with reporting and organizing it around the lawsuits and looking
Speaker 2: at the victims of uh, you know, people who have actually.
Speaker 1: So exactly what happened to.
Speaker 2: For the most part, the cancer is something that has
Speaker 2: to do with their reproductive system. However, there have been
Speaker 2: other sides, like other cancers like you know, lift no
Speaker 2: cancers and things like that, and it seems to be
Speaker 2: connected to the creamy crap as they call it. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just something we started. Well we're really young. It
Speaker 2: was a tool that was given to people to help
Speaker 2: deal with managing of course here kids, but this, that
Speaker 2: and the third, and you know, it's just it's never
Speaker 2: been good for us, and people are away from it.
Speaker 1: It's so much. I get crazy.
Speaker 3: Thing.
Speaker 1: We just look at our society. A lot of things
Speaker 1: that's good to us, it's not good fors and we
Speaker 1: indulge in, over indulge in all those things. And then
Speaker 1: by the time we get certain age, it really starts
Speaker 1: to affect you. Yeah right, it's literally chilling you. A
Speaker 1: lot of the stool, sugar and all of the stuff
Speaker 1: shall we love to death, and you know we'll snack
Speaker 1: your kid the first thing when we get a snack,
Speaker 1: and you want to snap. And those things are literally
Speaker 1: killing you.
Speaker 2: I love sh no, I love like sugar. Doesn't love sugar, No, No,
Speaker 2: it's different for me. I love sugar so bad. And
Speaker 2: they were telling me that my granddaughter found a little back.
Speaker 2: Now she's only sixteen months old. She don't know nothing
Speaker 2: about it. A lot of things. But do you think
Speaker 2: kids don't know she found a little some kinic way
Speaker 2: you got candy and this, and she was just quiet.
Speaker 2: They looked and she was tearing that kiddy up, eating
Speaker 2: aper and everything. It's just sweet.
Speaker 1: And good.
Speaker 2: I love sugar.
Speaker 1: Sugar is it thing? Because like a little cake he
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, a little sweetish fish or
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm like addicted to those things. So I
Speaker 1: have to stop, like in my process. You know, I've
Speaker 1: been doing all out working out and trying to change
Speaker 1: my diet and eat better because.
Speaker 2: You know, mean spring chicken, you know you a little
Speaker 2: non you little whatever. Yeah, I'm a little more spring
Speaker 2: than you, just so you know, okay.
Speaker 1: What but you push you getting it, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So the reality is you have to take
Speaker 1: care of yourself. You know what, my check up and
Speaker 1: very healthy. But these are things you need to do
Speaker 1: in antiox evants and blutele berries and find We're all
Speaker 1: the little things that you bett to take care of.
Speaker 1: So you know, very guys, you're conscious, intentional.
Speaker 2: I gotta fit. I had a physical I don't know
Speaker 2: some months ago, and what they they found immediately was
Speaker 2: related to sugar intake. It was like so clear it
Speaker 2: was the sugar intake. And then also I don't like
Speaker 2: to use the bathroom while I'm outside, so I will
Speaker 2: leave my house and look, I see folks, shake, look,
Speaker 2: everybody the whole production team is like word, I will
Speaker 2: leave my house at nine o'clock in the morning and
Speaker 2: do everything in my power not to use the bathroom,
Speaker 2: either till I get back or till I find some
Speaker 2: place that I really like. I'm like, let me run
Speaker 2: in Boomingdale's real quick and try to.
Speaker 1: Go to the.
Speaker 2: Floor where they have the stylists and stuff and use
Speaker 2: that bathroom. Like this is a real problem because by
Speaker 2: the way, people be nasty, nasty, nasty, nasty. I don't
Speaker 2: know what's up with the girls bathroom, but we have
Speaker 2: to do that term sisters at her. Yeah, but I've
Speaker 2: been into men's bathroom. When I gotta go, I'm going
Speaker 2: in whatever bathroom is available. So that's that. And no,
Speaker 2: you can't do it. Yes, this is a it's definitely
Speaker 2: it's a double standing, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2: So I don't drink nothing, and then of course you're
Speaker 2: not getting your proper water intake. So oh, first of all,
Speaker 2: then make sure that shout out to our family, the Smiths,
Speaker 2: Jade and Smith. I drink water all just water, all day,
Speaker 2: all day, all day and that and now I have
Speaker 2: to use the bathroom often, and it's and it's a
Speaker 2: new mindset and no matter what, you gotta go to
Speaker 2: the bathroom. Another thing in terms of me drinking my water,
Speaker 2: kidneys like, there was some stuff that they were like, hey,
Speaker 2: you need to watch this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kidneys are very important, and I think I think
Speaker 1: drink too much more. But I drink all day, all day,
Speaker 1: either drink water or.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say because I don't drink that and
Speaker 2: all day. But when it comes time for cocktails in
Speaker 2: the EI asking.
Speaker 1: This liquor all the time. But that's the things that
Speaker 1: I try not to drink. The leather juice with digitian
Speaker 1: like orae juice who ripped it? Sometimes they say a
Speaker 1: factul juice.
Speaker 2: The son I don't drink page the steep park nowadays
Speaker 2: look like I'm drinking.
Speaker 1: See, I don't really drink a lot because I remember
Speaker 1: when I was incarcerated, I used to drink juice all
Speaker 1: the time that I had build up like acid like
Speaker 1: acid reflux, you know, over saying from trading arbitrary scolled tons.
Speaker 1: So I started I had like little kidney stones from.
Speaker 2: Have refrigerating. I don't, I don't, I mean I drink
Speaker 2: you what's your refrigerated's a drink I drink.
Speaker 1: It's nothing, it's water and well it's some SOLDI and
Speaker 1: things that I don't really drink, but I had it
Speaker 1: from the super Bowl party and nobody drank. But it
Speaker 1: was funny to mix this get wherever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why had people like real.
Speaker 1: Dollar Tree. This is somebody. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: I'm this is this is free promo the Dollar Trees.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you the nobody wants that.
Speaker 1: Listen to him telling you the Dollar Trade is the
Speaker 1: best place to shot went there and I brought boxes
Speaker 1: and stuff with about sixty dollars. And listen to any
Speaker 1: other store I go through. You're digging your little brown
Speaker 1: paper bag. This big here's one hundred dollars stuff. You
Speaker 1: go to the Dollar Tree. They literally got boxes and stuff.
Speaker 1: Everything is a dollar twenty five. It's the best.
Speaker 2: What else is in your refrigerator?
Speaker 1: So what else is in it? Fruits? Vegetables? I got
Speaker 1: like cabbage, Okay, you know I'm trying to be healthy.
Speaker 1: What watermelon? You know?
Speaker 2: My refrigerator has sparkling water, sand cola GREENO. That's one
Speaker 2: I like just water. My refrigerator is full of just water.
Speaker 2: I still keep zero percent milk in my refrigerator. Almon,
Speaker 2: you drink almond milk, okay, so I still keep zero
Speaker 2: percent milk and my refrigerator. What else is in it?
Speaker 2: A lot. My snack that I make for myself is cucumbers, tomatoes,
Speaker 2: and what's the other one an onion's red onions. That's
Speaker 2: what I make, is a snack for when I get hungry,
Speaker 2: or watermelon, different fruits. And I've been trying to use brags,
Speaker 2: which is supposed to be really good in terms of
Speaker 2: dressing Italian dressing or whatever from rags, but it has nothing.
Speaker 2: A girlfriend of mine, Jamie, my best friend. She is
Speaker 2: she studied to be a chef, so she knows a
Speaker 2: lot about foods and different things and labels. Italian dressing
Speaker 2: is highly coloric, highly coloric. Like it's like, actually not good.
Speaker 2: So I cut it with the brags, so I'm doing better,
Speaker 2: but I'm not all the way there yet.
Speaker 1: It suppressed.
Speaker 2: Checking labels. Labels are very important if you actually read something,
Speaker 2: what you put in your body, what you're putting in
Speaker 2: your mind, if you read the content, if you really
Speaker 2: get to understand it, some things you might not at all.
Speaker 2: Because once I've read like some of the labels for
Speaker 2: a few things, the sugar, the amoulae sugar that's insert.
Speaker 2: It's like whoa, I'm actually and by the way they
Speaker 2: tell you when you go to the doctor and in
Speaker 2: other places you can look it up online exactly how
Speaker 2: much sugar and you know certain things calories, cholesterol, whatever,
Speaker 2: how much is okay for each person and trust and
Speaker 2: believe is like nothing. But most of the products that
Speaker 2: we use have passed ten times that in it. So
Speaker 2: if you read the labels, it will turn you off
Speaker 2: from some of the products, some of the things that
Speaker 2: we actually consume. So anyway brings me to my thought
Speaker 2: of the day, because reading, because reading is not fundamental
Speaker 2: for some people. Tell he's starting not fundamental for some people.
Speaker 2: I am so proud of myself that I've moved to
Speaker 2: a space in my life now where I can post
Speaker 2: something or get into a dialogue with people and they
Speaker 2: can be crazy, screaming up, like just going crazy, and
Speaker 2: it's I'll really give me some good rests. Like after
Speaker 2: I say what I have to say, I'm fine because
Speaker 2: I realized we not gonna all agree, especially around this election.
Speaker 2: And then you know, a few weeks ago, uh, the
Speaker 2: posts that I put up. I reposted something for Chris Brown,
Speaker 2: and that was like several days of back and forth,
Speaker 2: and I have really been able to see how much
Speaker 2: people don't need. They don't, they don't.
Speaker 1: They are willfully bignor with. But I really love believe.
Speaker 2: Doesn't that mean that you like kind of intentionally well,
Speaker 2: but some people are just don't know.
Speaker 1: Because they don't not agreeing. Because the thing is when
Speaker 1: you like, when you are sit on the you don't
Speaker 1: even want to read or get the nation that goes
Speaker 1: against so you you willfully just ignore that. Right Because
Speaker 1: I'm like, because a lot of people come to my
Speaker 1: page and I do like, did you actually did you
Speaker 1: actually do any you.
Speaker 2: Have people that I believe there's somebody. I'm really serious
Speaker 2: about this and I really mean it. I truly believe
Speaker 2: that there is somebody that's paying people to troll. I
Speaker 2: definitely believe. Well, well I don't just I don't have
Speaker 2: it as bad as you.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's a definition not people just paying the trol.
Speaker 1: It's like they're doing things to.
Speaker 2: Stop Well that's a different, you know, that's a different.
Speaker 2: But because what happens is.
Speaker 1: I realized that the algorithm feeds just negativity, or they
Speaker 1: like they try to feed it like most positive posts
Speaker 1: are app were real posting. They don't push it like
Speaker 1: they only try to push negativity.
Speaker 2: What I will say, though, is when we look at
Speaker 2: the demographics of my page and you black men are
Speaker 2: your majority followers and black women are my majority, And
Speaker 2: there's something to be said about the ways in which
Speaker 2: black men respond to different information. It's very diverse for
Speaker 2: a lot of different reasons, but it's something to be
Speaker 2: said about how for the most part, and I listen,
Speaker 2: I get torn up by black women all the time,
Speaker 2: Black women, white women, green women, blue women, they get
Speaker 2: in my ass. And some of the black men coming
Speaker 2: they tear me up too. But on your page, for
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: Part, pause, I mean, Nason KM my.
Speaker 2: Mama used to say, don't make me get in your ass,
Speaker 2: and she definitely wasn't talking about no pause. And if
Speaker 2: I would have said pause to us, she would have
Speaker 2: got hit it a little bit more. So you know,
Speaker 2: that's a whole other thing. But okay, so you know
Speaker 2: they they criticize me, let's just to get you know,
Speaker 2: So they criticized me, and but on your page, the
Speaker 2: criticism is it's like deep, it's deep. I mean it's
Speaker 2: like they come, they go to your page and it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you put up a picture I mean
Speaker 2: outside of you posting your children or something like that. Okay,
Speaker 2: cool for the most part, it's cool. But if you
Speaker 2: post good morning, they're like, oh what about this? And
Speaker 2: why that? And you look like this and you did that?
Speaker 2: So this is this is like very and I wonder
Speaker 2: why it is.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fake profiles. But it's also that
Speaker 1: it's people who are they utilize us as just their
Speaker 1: OI bought stings. So man, these people don't never go
Speaker 1: outside and they don't have no real interaction. So to
Speaker 1: be able to say negative things and get any response
Speaker 1: from somebody, it's okay for them because they actually live troll.
Speaker 1: It is a real thing. So a lot of these
Speaker 1: people they don't have like real social lives, right, they
Speaker 1: don't exist outside of the internet. Ya, I'll never forget it.
Speaker 1: Amanda steals sign on my page and she can't get
Speaker 1: my DMS. It was like I've never anything, she said,
Speaker 1: I'm gone through a lot. She said, this page is
Speaker 1: the most dramatic should I've ever seen people even go
Speaker 1: to you. I'm not your page because it makes you
Speaker 1: want to my family be like, yo, I want to
Speaker 1: fight people on your page. I'm like, no, it's not
Speaker 1: that serious. So it's it's funny to me because you know,
Speaker 1: I know I engage because any point that I have,
Speaker 1: I can stand on whatever I say, So I don't
Speaker 1: mind engage with somebody that has a different perspective than me.
Speaker 1: The new Freakmack is about to come out and we
Speaker 1: are t m il tm.
Speaker 2: I now that's for real.
Speaker 1: And I know it's a lot of parents. Listen, I
Speaker 1: was at a couple of free I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'm in the footage, but I know it's a couple
Speaker 1: of preemicks, and I know it's a lot of parents
Speaker 1: of a couple of Freeings. And I know a lot
Speaker 1: of them don't want they to see them in a
Speaker 1: couple of them free Nick movies and them those scenes
Speaker 1: and niggas a lot going on of them scenes. Trust me,
Speaker 1: if you was outside during Freaknant and you was driving
Speaker 1: by them cars in them streets, you've seen some.
Speaker 2: Things that you or you did some things.
Speaker 1: You either did some things or scene or both some
Speaker 1: things in them Freaknick. So it's that team line, Dude,
Speaker 1: do you like how what type of response you think
Speaker 1: did that movie?
Speaker 2: I think people are more concerned about their jobs and
Speaker 2: their husbands in there. I don't think I think the
Speaker 2: children piece. Yes, that's important to them and they but
Speaker 2: you could talk to your kids and your kids I
Speaker 2: can't believe, Oh my god, like depending on the type
Speaker 2: of kids you met and you was outside, depending all
Speaker 2: what type of kids we ask. But the job and
Speaker 2: when people build themselves up to be this like perfect person,
Speaker 2: that's why you should never do that. I say all
Speaker 2: the time, I'm imperfect as a mug, But people do that.
Speaker 2: They start, you know, they were walking away around they
Speaker 2: are this sorority and that organization and the president of
Speaker 2: this and whatever, and they have such a squeaky clean
Speaker 2: image and don't want to tell people the truth about
Speaker 2: who they really are.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: But you know, that's how it shows that I'm more
Speaker 2: of a spring chicken and I was.
Speaker 1: That's not the Thank God.
Speaker 2: I think it might be a little TMI, but it's
Speaker 2: just gonna have to deal with this because the things
Speaker 2: that you.
Speaker 1: Would just drive by the middle of the street and
Speaker 1: see if nobody call it, they camera phone and all
Speaker 1: that because people would see somebody with one channel over there,
Speaker 1: but I'll never see that person again. That's just gonna
Speaker 1: be its own personal I.
Speaker 3: Have the Internet.
Speaker 1: It wasn't none of that, so it's captured it. And
Speaker 1: now the internet is here, and now it was a movie.
Speaker 2: Listen to me, make sure you comment and tell us
Speaker 2: do you think it's TMI should the movie should come?
Speaker 1: I don't think community based to your husband now, to
Speaker 1: know that you was outside.
Speaker 2: Lot of the freakment situation was about music.
Speaker 1: So you have some I do have something, and it's
Speaker 1: our new music sect that I will be highlighted. You
Speaker 1: know a lot of artists who have dope music. Either
Speaker 1: they're unknown artists or some known artists, but I think
Speaker 1: the songs have so much substance and are telling so
Speaker 1: much of a story that they don't really get the
Speaker 1: highlight that they need. So this new music segment we
Speaker 1: have is called our real music spotlight and today's artists
Speaker 1: is an artist by the name of Yellow Pain, and
Speaker 1: the name of the song is called My Vote Don't
Speaker 1: Cap And in this song, he brilliantly breaks down the
Speaker 1: branches of government. Right. He talks about how since we
Speaker 1: are in voting vote relationsies in me, and he talks
Speaker 1: about how certain votes he doesn't believe are more important
Speaker 1: than others. He explains to you how you think this
Speaker 1: branch of government does this, that they actually don't do that.
Speaker 1: And he tells you the power of the president where
Speaker 1: he actually can't do and he tells you the local
Speaker 1: people that you should be voting on. Embrace it down,
Speaker 1: so Willianly and I think people need to listen to
Speaker 1: this because there's so much misinformation about and that person.
Speaker 1: They do this, and I don't know why we vote
Speaker 1: with it. You need to understand what you're voting for
Speaker 1: and who you're voting for and what they actually can do.
Speaker 1: So Yellow Pain, I just want to shout you out.
Speaker 1: Make sure that you go listen to the song. The
Speaker 1: videos on YouTube. It is called My Boat Don't Count.
Speaker 1: It's a dope Yellow Pain. Yellow Pain does that other music.
Speaker 1: He does have other music, but this one is big song.
Speaker 2: I love this track now.
Speaker 1: I think people should go look him up. He's actually
Speaker 1: a dope artists. He has a lot of substance, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's what I want to do. This whole segment
Speaker 1: about it's artists with substance artists who have songs for
Speaker 1: substect because there's a lot of artists who they only
Speaker 1: promote the ignorant songs and they have two or three
Speaker 1: really dope song to have substance that if you actually
Speaker 1: listen to, you could learn something that actually tells you
Speaker 1: the story that actually makes you actually connect to ourist's
Speaker 1: always and this.
Speaker 2: Segment is called real Real Music, Spotless.
Speaker 1: Spot We've then the spotlight real music in the real music.
Speaker 2: Yellow Pain, Yellow Pain, mop Buck, the whole down hat
Speaker 2: other business. We have a straw very very very important
Speaker 2: interview today. As you know, all of you who are
Speaker 2: out there will be following us on social media. We
Speaker 2: are supporting uh the Justice for Pierre Russian campaign. We've
Speaker 2: been trying to bring all the information possible to you
Speaker 2: about Pierre Russian. This man was wrongfully convicted. He's serving
Speaker 2: a sentence that is unfair and injust and we want
Speaker 2: the system to work.
Speaker 3: In his favor.
Speaker 2: We want to trial years, yeah, something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we want a new trial, and we want evidence to
Speaker 2: be re exism in all of those things. And coming
Speaker 2: up right now is one of a major advocate for
Speaker 2: him and other wrongfully convicted individuals. It is Jason Flaum.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be talking about what is happening with Pierre
Speaker 2: right now. I think it was such such such a
Speaker 2: dope interview. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go to this previously recorded interview with
Speaker 1: Jason Flock. Take a look.
Speaker 2: So we are being joined today by a good friend
Speaker 2: of ours that we have begun to work with, or
Speaker 2: I have been working with for a while and through
Speaker 2: our initiative with Team Rock, which is Rock Nations Baby,
Speaker 2: It's philanthropy armed Desiree Perez bought a lot of us together.
Speaker 2: You know, when Jay did the deal with the NFL,
Speaker 2: it caused a lot of people to have concerns. I
Speaker 2: was one of those individuals. You would number two of
Speaker 2: those individuals. But they also made a commitment that a
Speaker 2: part of their efforts would be to bring a very
Speaker 2: diverse group of people together so that we could meet
Speaker 2: around a lot of issues and support one another. And
Speaker 2: I think the UJC, the United Justice Coalition, has done
Speaker 2: that being supportive, showing up for one another. And so
Speaker 2: Jason Fohm is someone that I met through Did we
Speaker 2: meet before that, Jameson? Probably not, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 2: we did. Maybe we did, but I know exactly. But
Speaker 2: I do know for sure that through our work at UJC,
Speaker 2: we met Jason and have really begin to understand so
Speaker 2: much about what you do every day. Now you start
Speaker 2: off at least for my understanding, and not that that
Speaker 2: begins your life, but a lot of people know you
Speaker 2: as having been the CEO of major record labels.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: So you were in in the industry as a trailblazer
Speaker 2: and I was mentioning to you off camera. We were
Speaker 2: talking about lack of diversity in leadership in the industry
Speaker 2: and how it impacts artists and their ability to have
Speaker 2: balance through their voice and what have you. And so
Speaker 2: then you just happen to be here today. And I
Speaker 2: think one of the things that makes you very different
Speaker 2: is the work that you do, the anti racism work
Speaker 2: you do every day.
Speaker 1: That's what we know you for.
Speaker 3: Thank you, That's what that's I hope that's what I
Speaker 3: will be known for. It's funny I meet people now,
Speaker 3: some people just come out through and even a waiter
Speaker 3: at a restaurants you out there. You're the criminal justice guy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: since I saw you and Joe Rogan, I watched that episode,
Speaker 3: so a wee times and I listen to your podcast
Speaker 3: Wrong for Conviction. It got me through the pandemic of
Speaker 3: the work in the warehouse. And so you know, I
Speaker 3: meet people these days who don't know that I've been
Speaker 3: in the music business, and that's okay with me, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like, that's what I do for
Speaker 3: a living. I've been very, very lucky in my career.
Speaker 3: But you know the work that I've been doing now
Speaker 3: since nineteen ninety three, helping to reform my system and
Speaker 3: get as many people out of prison as I possibly
Speaker 3: can and prevent as many from going in as I
Speaker 3: possibly can.
Speaker 2: That's that's your legacy.
Speaker 3: That's what's keeping meaning. It gives me to my dates.
Speaker 3: I get up thinking about it, I go to sleep
Speaker 3: thinking about it, and I think about it in between.
Speaker 3: And luckily, I'm in a position where I'm able to
Speaker 3: have an impact. And so that's what I do, and
Speaker 3: that's what I'm going to continue to do until my
Speaker 3: last breath.
Speaker 2: And speaking of sorry, I just wanted to make sure
Speaker 2: I mentioned you know that speaking of impact, you are
Speaker 2: one of the founding board members of the Innocence Project,
Speaker 2: in which my son will speak to how much he's
Speaker 2: been working with members of the organization just looking at
Speaker 2: cases around this country, trying to get people free. And
Speaker 2: so we appreciate you for that. And now hosts seeing
Speaker 2: your podcast Wrongful Convictions, as you said, listen, you got
Speaker 2: to swag on today, we want to get no.
Speaker 1: I just want to know how long have you been
Speaker 1: doing the podcast?
Speaker 3: So started in twenty sixteen, so this is our eighth year.
Speaker 3: Word over seventy million down loads. Now we've gotten you know,
Speaker 3: quite We've helped to free quite a number of roughly
Speaker 3: convicted people, including Robbie Long, who was just at the
Speaker 3: news the other day. Wow, youge settled in North Carolina.
Speaker 3: I spoke to him, so happy for him, forty four
Speaker 3: years wrongfully convicted. He should have gotten you can serve
Speaker 3: it by a lot of people don't. And so yeah,
Speaker 3: So each week we tell stories with the person who
Speaker 3: lived it. Sometimes I interview people on death row, people
Speaker 3: that are still in prison, serving lights, people who've been
Speaker 3: in for decades. Other Times I interview people who have
Speaker 3: been through that unreal ordeal and come out the other
Speaker 3: side as are free, because I think those stories are
Speaker 3: important to tell as well.
Speaker 1: So what was the transition like what would golf from
Speaker 1: the CEO to doing innocence and wallful condition work, Like
Speaker 1: I don't even know how that happens. Like what made
Speaker 1: you say, you know what, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1: This is more of what I want to do with
Speaker 1: the process.
Speaker 3: Well, when I started, I was far from becoming a CEO.
Speaker 3: I was still just thought of a mid level A
Speaker 3: and R executive. But I saw a story in the
Speaker 3: newspaper that blew my mind. And it was the story
Speaker 3: of a kid who was serving fifteen years to life
Speaker 3: on non violent first defense cocaine possession charge in a
Speaker 3: maximum security prison in New York State. And I was
Speaker 3: cocaine possession and I was like, this cannot possibly be right.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I had my own issues with substance
Speaker 3: abuse as a kid, and I knew that if not
Speaker 3: for the color of my skin and the zip code
Speaker 3: I was born in or was raised in, I would
Speaker 3: have been at one hundred percent. So I was like,
Speaker 3: that could have been me. I ended up in rehab
Speaker 3: because that's where they said kids like me, you know,
Speaker 3: white kids that came from that area at that time.
Speaker 3: So I just I freaked out. I decided I had
Speaker 3: to do something about this, and so I didn't know
Speaker 3: anything about what I was doing. But I managed to
Speaker 3: get an attorney to take the case front bono. I
Speaker 3: knew this guy because he represented two Urt Side Side
Speaker 3: Stole Temple Piles. This kid wrote, they're getting arrested like
Speaker 3: weekly back then, so that's a slight exaggeration. But I
Speaker 3: got him to take the case pro bono. He said
Speaker 3: it was hopeless. This kid happened to be the same
Speaker 3: age as I was, at thirty two years old, and
Speaker 3: he had been in for eight years already and was
Speaker 3: serving the fifteenth life like I said, mandatory fifteen. And
Speaker 3: somehow or other, we ended up in a court room
Speaker 3: six months later in Malone, New York, up by the
Speaker 3: Canadian border, and bring this kid in shackles. I never
Speaker 3: forget that his legs were changing. I was like, is
Speaker 3: this guy like a serial killer? Like he got a
Speaker 3: non violent first of festal papers. I stretched, I's just
Speaker 3: not get it twisted, and so I was like, this
Speaker 3: seems a little extreme. But the arguments went back and forth.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know what was going on because I
Speaker 3: didn't understand it any day about these issues back then,
Speaker 3: like most people don't until it affects them and what
Speaker 3: touches they're failing. And the judge with old white haired guy,
Speaker 3: this guy's never but he banged the gavel down and
Speaker 3: said the motion is granted and set the kid off.
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, I guess I have a superpower,
Speaker 3: you know, Like I mean, if I could do that,
Speaker 3: then I'm going to do that. I'm gonna do a
Speaker 3: lot of that. And so I learned very soon after that,
Speaker 3: for if I read roland Stone magazine about organization that
Speaker 3: recently started called Families Against Mandatory Benoance. His case was
Speaker 3: a manatory medal case. I joined their board, so they
Speaker 3: gat the first board remember there, And then soon after
Speaker 3: that I saw some of the TV about it in
Speaker 3: this this project case. It was a branded organization back then,
Speaker 3: but they've gotten this guy off a death row who
Speaker 3: was scheduled to be executed, and they found the DNA
Speaker 3: and Barry Shek and Peter Nukes, all the founders and
Speaker 3: they went and got this guy not only not to
Speaker 3: be executed, but they got it free. And I was like,
Speaker 3: that's the craziest.
Speaker 1: Shit I've iver seen.
Speaker 3: Like I didn't even think about the idea until then
Speaker 3: that we execute innocent people. Well, I mean, I don't
Speaker 3: think we should execute anybody, but that's beside the point
Speaker 3: innocent people. I was like, so, I just want I
Speaker 3: just marched down in this as Project offices and said,
Speaker 3: I'm your guy, I don't know what you need to
Speaker 3: be done, but I'm doing it. I'm gonna do whatever
Speaker 3: you asked me to do. And then so and so
Speaker 3: I joined forces with them back in the mid nineties,
Speaker 3: and that's what you know. That's the origin story right there.
Speaker 2: How many people would you say at this point, since
Speaker 2: you're involvement in the Innocence Project, that you want cases
Speaker 2: that you just worked on because we know that the
Speaker 2: end result is not always what we want. But you
Speaker 2: still have worked on cases and given people hope and
Speaker 2: light and given their their stories light. So how many
Speaker 2: cases would you say at this point I worked with
Speaker 2: a person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've lost cat all the time ago. It's hundreds,
Speaker 3: but I have no idea.
Speaker 2: How many Do you know how many people have actually
Speaker 2: been freed as a result.
Speaker 1: Of your work?
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean it's direct and indirect. If you
Speaker 3: could have had the experience last year of having dinner
Speaker 3: with a number of people and one guy DeMarco Carpent
Speaker 3: dirt and uh, you know, halfway through dinner, I says, no,
Speaker 3: you got me at a prison. I was like, oh, yeah, forgot.
Speaker 3: It's like and that's okay. I mean, like, I didn't
Speaker 3: mean that to be offensive. It's just that you do,
Speaker 3: you know work, I have just forget some of these
Speaker 3: That's that makes me feel, that makes me sleep while
Speaker 3: at night. And he's a fantastic human being. The Marco too,
Speaker 3: He's really been through it Oklahoma, and you know, over
Speaker 3: twenty years, awfully convicted, really targeted by the police there
Speaker 3: in ways that there goes beyond the typical a biction case,
Speaker 3: if there is such a thing. So yeah, so I've
Speaker 3: lost track a long time ago. And I've also worked
Speaker 3: on the issues to try to three people on a
Speaker 3: wholesale level, working with organizations like the Whole Yeah, and
Speaker 3: so indirect involvement in things like the Obama Clemency's, but
Speaker 3: also in you know, providing funding for organizations like civil
Speaker 3: rights cores you know, who have read hundreds of thousands
Speaker 3: of people are prevented that many people from going to
Speaker 3: jail in the first place by changing the laws right,
Speaker 3: by preventing people from going to jail just because they're
Speaker 3: arrested in two portabate bail right, which is on constitutions
Speaker 3: Violay fourteen amendments, So you know the you know those.
Speaker 3: Of course, the macro changes are more important than micros
Speaker 3: are more meaningful, right, And the individuals when I'm able
Speaker 3: to to help somebody in a hopeless place, trapped, just
Speaker 3: one of two million people at President of America trying
Speaker 3: to get their voice heard that. You know, that feels
Speaker 3: better because you know the other one is a number.
Speaker 3: But I don't know any of those, but I'm glad
Speaker 3: that they're they're there with their families where they belong,
Speaker 3: and not any one of.
Speaker 2: These system when you're doing network.
Speaker 3: And by the way, before we waiting for that, I
Speaker 3: got to give you so far because I was reading
Speaker 3: this one of the great books the other day and
Speaker 3: Inconvenient Cop Edward Raymond. Everybody should read this book.
Speaker 2: It is such a good book.
Speaker 3: Everybody, get somebody to read it for you. I don't care.
Speaker 3: Get this book. And inconvenient Cop. I haven't Raymond. I
Speaker 3: met him at the j C again and uh, and
Speaker 3: there's your name with big stars around it, I mean,
Speaker 3: coming up just you know, at the right time, in
Speaker 3: the right place, but with you know, coming from a
Speaker 3: place of just conviction and courage that you know I
Speaker 3: can only you know, I can always say, I mean
Speaker 3: very hard.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate that you know. Edwin was a
Speaker 2: breath of fresh air. And it wasn't just him. I
Speaker 2: mean it was Edwin and the other officers, including one
Speaker 2: woman who really suffered and continues to suffer, who you know,
Speaker 2: came to us and said they needed help. And like
Speaker 2: you said, I feel like, you know, we got involved.
Speaker 2: Edwin now has, he's run for office, he is, he's
Speaker 2: his book, he's now an author, he's doing so many
Speaker 2: incredible things. When I look at him, I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: see my role, although I know that I did play
Speaker 2: a role in helping him to get his voice out there.
Speaker 2: But what I do feel is we disrupted something that
Speaker 2: was happening within the system that people didn't really want
Speaker 2: to talk about. So and sometimes that's all you need
Speaker 2: is a brave soul liking Edwin to come forward. That
Speaker 2: helps to make your case that we've already been.
Speaker 1: Right, because a lot of times when you do this work,
Speaker 1: you know, it gets a little disheartening, Like you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't see people like Ringmond like you know that
Speaker 1: come from the inside and able to help you push
Speaker 1: the work that you're doing. So when you get somebody
Speaker 1: like that gives you another first breath of eight, like Okay,
Speaker 1: now we've got some people, and that he's bringing more people,
Speaker 1: so you know, shut up to ring and shut up.
Speaker 1: So he's today and you have this case that I've
Speaker 1: been seeing you talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like crazy over this case.
Speaker 1: And when you get when you hear what's going on
Speaker 1: with this case, you deserve it, actually crazy.
Speaker 4: So like give us like a synopsis of what's going
Speaker 4: on this Yeah, so thanks for bringing us back to
Speaker 4: back because that's really the reason why we're here.
Speaker 3: This is the case of a guy named Pierre Rushing
Speaker 3: who was in prison in California. He's been in uh
Speaker 3: for about thirteen years, and it's an Oakland case. And
Speaker 3: you know, I deal with wildly convicted people all day,
Speaker 3: every day, and my phone doesn't stop ringing. We covered
Speaker 3: them on the podcast. I advocate for them in governor's offices,
Speaker 3: anywhere I can get attention, speak with lawyers and yays
Speaker 3: pressed immediate. But here's case stuck out to me, and
Speaker 3: so much so that when I was offered. There's a
Speaker 3: law firm called Greenberg Trowering and a general a lawyer
Speaker 3: there that Jordan Ratzinger, had heard my podcast and reached
Speaker 3: out and said he wanted to get the firm involve
Speaker 3: pro bono in a case. That's one of the biggest,
Speaker 3: best law firms in the country. So I went for
Speaker 3: a hike, we went for lunch, whatever, and we said
Speaker 3: that I gave it fives that I thought, really, you know,
Speaker 3: really deserved. You know, they even stuck out above some
Speaker 3: of the others, you know, and that's a crazy standard
Speaker 3: because some of these brought makes a case of absolutely
Speaker 3: mind shit there. You cannot believe the people are in prison.
Speaker 3: But Pierre stuck out and so so yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 3: a lot of your your listeners probably have a loved one,
Speaker 3: maybe they are themselves because it's a scourge out there.
Speaker 3: But so so Pierre's case, we decided that was one
Speaker 3: that we could really make a difference. He was a
Speaker 3: promising young man growing up. He had a career, a
Speaker 3: urgent career in hip hop music. So I guess I
Speaker 3: connected on that level as well because he you know,
Speaker 3: it seemed like he might have been on the verge
Speaker 3: and he was wrawfully arrested for a murder. It was crazy.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's must have been the very last iPod murder.
Speaker 3: But somebody was murdered over an iPod. You imagine that.
Speaker 1: Right, Google it.
Speaker 3: And these four guys had rolled up, someone had gotten out,
Speaker 3: thought somebody that's the on their iPod. Maybe they did
Speaker 3: out't know, jumped out of the car and there was
Speaker 3: a confrontation and somebody was shot and killed. Well, the
Speaker 3: witness who came forward was an admitted drug addict. He
Speaker 3: admitted that he was using crack at least six times
Speaker 3: a day, among other drugs, and was He gave some
Speaker 3: description of a guy and a certain colored hat, a
Speaker 3: certain colored car. Here happened to have a car of
Speaker 3: that color, maybe on the hat whatever. It was like
Speaker 3: some ridiculous circumstancial stuff. And when the police first interviewed him,
Speaker 3: they asked her, where were you at three forty five
Speaker 3: on such and such day, three toteen or three forty five,
Speaker 3: And he told him, but he thought they meant in
Speaker 3: the daytime, but they meant in the night three five
Speaker 3: am when he was actually at his grandmother's house with
Speaker 3: his girlfriend, and his grandfriend is now a government official.
Speaker 3: Like she's a serious person, right, not that anybody you know,
Speaker 3: that shouldn't even necessarily matter. But she's not. She was
Speaker 3: not abusing cracks six times a day, right, She's a
Speaker 3: credible persons always say. And so he gave the wrong information.
Speaker 3: He said he was celebrating his birthday or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: and that turned out not to be true. So then
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, all it was was And first
Speaker 3: of all, that's always crazy to me because when that,
Speaker 3: oftentimes the police will go to you and say, myself,
Speaker 3: where were you on uh you know, uh October, you know, third,
Speaker 3: And you'll be like, it's January. I don't remember where
Speaker 3: I was yesterday at this time, right, I mean, did
Speaker 3: I get Chinese? I don't remember what I was doing?
Speaker 3: But did they expect you to know this? And and
Speaker 3: you know, for many of us from any of these cases,
Speaker 3: was before the days when we had a calendar on
Speaker 3: our phones. Although you might never remember him, everybody has
Speaker 3: to write everything down. So that was how this thing
Speaker 3: started going in the wrong direction first place. But he
Speaker 3: did have an alibi, and there was no physical evidence
Speaker 3: connecting the case in any way. The car was taken
Speaker 3: in by the police. They actually found the car and
Speaker 3: they tested the front seat for biological evidence. There was
Speaker 3: no evidence of Pierre whatever in that car or that
Speaker 3: he knew the victim, and they never tested the backseat
Speaker 3: to see if any biological evidence. You know, we're always shedding,
Speaker 3: you know, touchings to shedding DNA, you know, all the time.
Speaker 3: Air could be there. Now that these are perfect sciences,
Speaker 3: but they would have given an indication, but they and
Speaker 3: we're now trying to get those things tested to further prove.
Speaker 3: Now this witness is recarred, by the way, and also
Speaker 3: important that the shooter was identified as a guy named C.
Speaker 3: Street name C. Now, Pierre's name is Pierre Rushing. He
Speaker 3: don't even have a C in there anywhere, and he's
Speaker 3: never been known as and now it seems pretty clear
Speaker 3: who C actually is. And so this case at this
Speaker 3: point kind of comes with instructions where if fake chose
Speaker 3: to they could go and interview the witness, they could.
Speaker 2: Car and the judge would do that.
Speaker 3: It would have to compute let's right to get it oil.
Speaker 3: So so you know, so the DA in in Pallabeda
Speaker 3: County is a woman at panel of Price. She's you know,
Speaker 3: she's I believe, a good woman. I think that she is,
Speaker 3: you know, a da who you know, read on these
Speaker 3: type of issues of getting justice in these cases and
Speaker 3: not just tough on crime and all the other nunsers
Speaker 3: that we do all the time. So I think we
Speaker 3: have reason to believe that she is someone who would
Speaker 3: you know, take case like this seriously, when you have
Speaker 3: the type of attention brought to this case and where
Speaker 3: you have a for La Greenberg Charch there's probably put
Speaker 3: a million dollars, has disproven every aspect of the case
Speaker 3: that the state made you think that it would. I
Speaker 3: think you think that the jail doors would just fly open, okay,
Speaker 3: because just one wrong, Yes, this one wrong. Let's said
Speaker 3: this guy always been here for thirteen years with mister Rushing.
Speaker 3: We're sorry, we made a mistake. There's a compensation move
Speaker 3: all with your life. And by the way, that's an
Speaker 3: IMPORTNISI compensation We talk about that online fast all the time,
Speaker 3: is that most of the people that are exonerated never
Speaker 3: get any conversation, but we hear about the ones who do.
Speaker 3: But anyway, that's what that's what I would like to
Speaker 3: see happen, and I believe it's a relatively straight over
Speaker 3: process that the DA's office. That I get it, they're swamped.
Speaker 3: They haven't gonna be sure. There's a lot of cases.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of rushings out there, right And I'm
Speaker 3: not saying, because I'm advocating for him that he should
Speaker 3: be that, you know, push everybody else out of the way.
Speaker 3: But I do think that this case is is pretty
Speaker 3: clear cut at this point, and that if they were
Speaker 3: willing to just you know, have look at people in
Speaker 3: their office, go and take the steps that we talked
Speaker 3: about to do these interviews and testing that where's.
Speaker 2: The car that it could be tested again.
Speaker 3: Evidence I don't know if they take the seats out
Speaker 3: or what they do one way ornother.
Speaker 2: Available.
Speaker 1: So it is the emotion that you put into the courts.
Speaker 3: The the courts are a very poor remedy. Jordan Gratzinger,
Speaker 3: the lawyer from Great Word Chauer, went and argued in
Speaker 3: the appeals court, the problem is that the standards are
Speaker 3: so virtually possible to me, because the appeals court effectively
Speaker 3: has to decide that no other finder of fact could
Speaker 3: have possibly ruled the way this judge or jury did,
Speaker 3: and so that means that fighting against the silk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they basically they get to say, yeah, we did
Speaker 1: the best we can and we know we did.
Speaker 2: We don't have to do no checks and balances.
Speaker 3: And that all goes back to the horrible you know
Speaker 3: ETPA Act in the nineteen ninety six at the federal
Speaker 3: government pass where they made it virtually impossible for people
Speaker 3: to appeal their sentences because they wanted finality right in
Speaker 3: this country, finalities out in the pedile legal system as
Speaker 3: opposed to justice, and so they made it that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just when you when you just did, you
Speaker 1: hate what he just did. Finality is more important than
Speaker 1: just right, Like they just want to get it over with.
Speaker 1: They don't care if they got it right or wrong.
Speaker 1: They just want to say, Okay, we done, We're finished
Speaker 1: with this. And that's crazy. Imagine your life being being
Speaker 1: held to somebody's criteria that all they want to do
Speaker 1: is finalize. They don't want to get it right, they
Speaker 1: don't want to look through that you did, we do
Speaker 1: this everything. They just want to say we finished. It's crazy.
Speaker 3: It's hard to understand it. I mean, I think for
Speaker 3: most of us and you know it's it's incumbent on
Speaker 3: us to get good prosecutors elected in every city and
Speaker 3: county that we can.
Speaker 2: And also till politics matter, politics matter, voting matters.
Speaker 3: You know people are already hearing that, but spit thinking
Speaker 3: about this. In local elections especially, you know you can
Speaker 3: your vote really matters DA races, not that.
Speaker 2: Many people vote, because you could be in Atlanta and
Speaker 2: a crime happened. Where is this other place you said,
Speaker 2: these are the eight in Florida, not even be there.
Speaker 2: So because the reason why I want to zero in
Speaker 2: on this is because there are people who believe and
Speaker 2: I could. I'm telling you I have some older family
Speaker 2: members that would say, if you stay away from problems,
Speaker 2: you stay away from, you know you won't get yourself
Speaker 2: in any trouble. Those things won't happen to you if
Speaker 2: you stay away. But I don't know how much further
Speaker 2: you could be from Florida where a crime takes place
Speaker 2: than Atlanta and still somehow you find yourself in these situations.
Speaker 2: But not enough people understand it until it happens to them,
Speaker 2: which is what we don't want.
Speaker 3: Listen, We've got a number of those cases. I've been
Speaker 3: working on the case. So we got a temage and
Speaker 3: Kensu in Michigan who was over four hundred miles away
Speaker 3: when the murder took place, and Pece, you're on and
Speaker 3: there's no question that that is true. And yet the
Speaker 3: state came up with a theory that he went to
Speaker 3: a local airfield. He was broke as a joke right,
Speaker 3: living in the trailer, had no access to money of
Speaker 3: any kind, that he went to a local airfield and
Speaker 3: found a pilot just hanging out who was willing to
Speaker 3: fly him round trip for for free, while not making
Speaker 3: any record of the flight. Also would have had to
Speaker 3: buy gas because the planes there are too small to
Speaker 3: make that round trip. But there's no record of the flight,
Speaker 3: there's no record of the pilot, there's no record of
Speaker 3: the gas. And yet the state presented this is evidence
Speaker 3: because they knew, they knew he was in this other
Speaker 3: city at about one thirty two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 3: and they knew he was back there at his karate
Speaker 3: class at noon. And it's an eight and a half
Speaker 3: hour drive with no traffic each way, and the murder
Speaker 3: happened at night thirty in the morning. And yet he's
Speaker 3: been in prison for thirty six years and he's still
Speaker 3: sitting here. He's a white guy. And then you have
Speaker 3: Pedro Renoso. I interviewed Paedro Renoso on my podcast. He
Speaker 3: was convicted of a double murder in Philadelphia when he
Speaker 3: was in the Dominican Republic. He has the passport stamps
Speaker 3: and the travel documents and video, and he signed a
Speaker 3: landy that day and he attended his son's baptism. And
Speaker 3: he has a dozen witnesses, including a priest and a
Speaker 3: cop that was down there at the baptism. And you
Speaker 3: sit there and go, how is this man in prison?
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Did he fly in and
Speaker 3: out with nobody noticing, like from a foreign country on
Speaker 3: the same day. Come on, now, this is like you know,
Speaker 3: but the thing is once once you get caught in
Speaker 3: that quicksand.
Speaker 1: You say this thing to get into an artist thing,
Speaker 1: to get up exactly.
Speaker 3: And that's what worry for. That's why I listen. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm so glad to be here talking to
Speaker 3: you about the pure Russian case and these other cases.
Speaker 3: It's why I hope people will listen to the Raw
Speaker 3: for Commission podcast, because when you do, there'll be a
Speaker 3: case that you'll hear about that will touch you that
Speaker 3: you may want to get involved in some way, or
Speaker 3: you may hear something one of the legal experts that
Speaker 3: we interview that might impact you or somebody you love.
Speaker 3: And most importantly, I hope that people will listen because
Speaker 3: you're gonna someday get that jury duty. But if that
Speaker 3: thing is, oh man, I'm so busy. I don't want
Speaker 3: to go, but you gotta go.
Speaker 1: When you go, I want people to take you experience,
Speaker 1: bring the understanding, but.
Speaker 2: Don't bring don't tell everybody the thing is you have.
Speaker 1: To bring in reality into those court rooms. I sat
Speaker 1: on a trial right with people that I knew, didn't
Speaker 1: even understand what was going on from my career, just
Speaker 1: didn't even understand how you can actually be railroaded for something,
Speaker 1: how you could actually be accused of something. And they
Speaker 1: didn't They didn't have any evidence or anything, but just
Speaker 1: somebody said you did something, and that was enough. That
Speaker 1: was really just enough, and I understood, Like then, it's
Speaker 1: nobody from where I come from that has seen this
Speaker 1: happen to be like now that have more than they
Speaker 1: asks certain questions that I would ask, like, well, if
Speaker 1: you say any of this, then why not this and
Speaker 1: why did this like it? There's nobody there, so we
Speaker 1: have to be very very attentionib about Jerry dirty and
Speaker 1: the voting and voting in all of those things. But
Speaker 1: you know, I know you got to go soon, but
Speaker 1: I want to ask, so, what what can we do
Speaker 1: right now? What is in the process of what's going
Speaker 1: on with p A. Rushing? You know, is there like
Speaker 1: what did you do? We waiting for DA? The evidence
Speaker 1: that you have, has it been presentative? D A is
Speaker 1: the meetings of hell rasell call up like, well, this
Speaker 1: doesn't even make sense that this man is still sitting
Speaker 1: a jib.
Speaker 3: No, it makes sense. The case is completely collapsed and
Speaker 3: never went much vacation in the first place, but now
Speaker 3: it's completely collators and Edison Man, I can say that unequidically,
Speaker 3: and I think what we can do is we can
Speaker 3: make our voices heard on social media. You know, my
Speaker 3: Instagram is it's Jason Flow, It's I T S Jason
Speaker 3: and the last as that fellow ambs Justice for Pierre
Speaker 3: Rushing for VR Rushing, you go to Justice for VR
Speaker 3: Rushing dot com. Thanks for shouting that out and read
Speaker 3: the write letters to the DA does actually work? You
Speaker 3: know they talk out of the office. I know you
Speaker 3: think it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It's gonna have sure. We want to make sure that
Speaker 1: we put the office and everything up so that people
Speaker 1: can contact and and let them know that this is
Speaker 1: was crazy and they need to you know, no expeditiously.
Speaker 1: A man's been sitting a jil.
Speaker 3: For thirteen years and I coached and I couraged people
Speaker 3: to be respectful. If you called your office irrespectful, remember
Speaker 3: the person that's answering the phone didn't do anything, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. So you might be angry about
Speaker 3: this case. I'm angry about it, but it doesn't help,
Speaker 3: you know, just be you know, be dignified, be respectful,
Speaker 3: but make your voice heard because your voice matters. And
Speaker 3: going back to the voting thing, and then I will
Speaker 3: touch on Jory Judy one war time, but on the
Speaker 3: voting thing. You know, these DA racists have real consequences.
Speaker 3: You know. I was very proud to have been involved
Speaker 3: with Jason Williams's rotten successful one in Louisiana where and
Speaker 3: he freed over three hundred people the first year it
Speaker 3: was in office. Now six of them were convicted. The
Speaker 3: rest were convicted by nine unanimous jury. Because Weuisia used
Speaker 3: to have a nine unanimous jury for the prison for
Speaker 3: the rest of your life unattended to you're.
Speaker 2: Used to have dysruption. Okay, the last two states, Oregon
Speaker 2: doesn't happen anymore. So nowhere across the untry wondering spree.
Speaker 3: Court said no, no, I can't do anymore. So, but
Speaker 3: they didn't make a retroactive and when it was what
Speaker 3: Supreme Court was this. This was only a few years ago,
Speaker 3: so I don't remember exactly. I think it was before.
Speaker 1: So they did some people who have been convicted of
Speaker 1: it's still up. You been to gate up.
Speaker 3: So Jason went and said, hey, I'm going to look
Speaker 3: at these cases like well you were suggesting with our
Speaker 3: man who was a good man. And I believe it's
Speaker 3: going to Alan started to really get his stride. I
Speaker 3: hope he's going to start, you know, more and more
Speaker 3: people are going to be coming home.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love the album. Bragg is a friend. You know,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean I agree with him all the time.
Speaker 2: I all love him as a friend. Erica, Oh, we
Speaker 2: love Eric dar cl Clark in the Bronx picked up.
Speaker 3: The Manthla from Ken Thompson and I have a lot
Speaker 3: of respect and I I can personally and I had
Speaker 3: a lot of respect for the work that he's done.
Speaker 3: I think he's you know, as good of a da
Speaker 3: as we got in New York statey A Wall shout out.
Speaker 2: To our dear sister Lushawan Thompson, who is the widow
Speaker 2: of Ken Thompson, and she is invested actually helping to
Speaker 2: work on, you know, continuing Ken's legacy. But I do
Speaker 2: want to say one thing is that I noticed, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure that there are people listening who are like,
Speaker 2: we just gonna wait and see how long it takes
Speaker 2: to Meka to ask this question. As we close, we
Speaker 2: talk every name. I heard you say it was a man.
Speaker 2: What is happening with women who have been wrongfully convicted?
Speaker 2: Because one of the things we talk about all the
Speaker 2: time is that there are so many women in the
Speaker 2: system that don't get visits. There's no one paying attention
Speaker 2: to their cases.
Speaker 1: It's just not the.
Speaker 2: Focus women incarcerated women. And there are more people like
Speaker 2: to peek of Sam and you know, of course the
Speaker 2: work Jamila has done and others who are trying to
Speaker 2: send a cross that are trying to bring attention two
Speaker 2: women who are incarcerated. But what do you think you know?
Speaker 2: And I think this sometimes with DEI if that applies here,
Speaker 2: we have to have a very specific focus when you
Speaker 2: know there's not been much of a focus at all.
Speaker 2: So just wondering if there are women that you all
Speaker 2: are engaged with.
Speaker 3: Absolutely just a few that come to mind. Melissa Kayazinski
Speaker 3: in Illinois, totally innocent daycare were for for a child
Speaker 3: at a fall and tragically died, but she had nothing
Speaker 3: to do with it. She's one. I mean a number
Speaker 3: of women who I'm working with who are out but
Speaker 3: still not exonerated, like Kierra Newsome, Tyra Patterson, and there
Speaker 3: are a number of other cases we don't have tied
Speaker 3: to go through all of them that we're involved with.
Speaker 3: A women who are in prison now. In fact, we
Speaker 3: just released a podcast this week. I'll have case of
Speaker 3: a woman named Niki Zinger who was Ralphiger micked her
Speaker 3: mother and it's obvious case Patty pruittt in Missouri, who's
Speaker 3: seventy four years old, has been in for half of
Speaker 3: her life at this point, and it is absolutely innocent
Speaker 3: of killing her eyes. So women, it's I'm so glad
Speaker 3: you brought it up. My girlfriend Kalia Ali, who is
Speaker 3: the daughter of the great Man who would have been
Speaker 3: eighty two years old today. You know, she's going down
Speaker 3: to spend four nights in prison in Texas. She's going
Speaker 3: to highlight the issues of women in prison, spend at
Speaker 3: night in the maternity war, to night at hospice, and
Speaker 3: night and death row and the knight of general populations
Speaker 3: and when it comes to women, it's important. And we
Speaker 3: can close on this or whatever you want. But in America,
Speaker 3: we have less than five percent of the world's population.
Speaker 3: We have twenty five percent of the world's prison population.
Speaker 3: But what people don't talk about is we have thirty
Speaker 3: three percent of the world's female prison podcast so we
Speaker 3: lock women.
Speaker 2: Up, say time fast growing.
Speaker 3: As the rest of the world, as the rest of
Speaker 3: the Western world, eight times is high.
Speaker 1: Do we have women in America that are different?
Speaker 3: Right? Right?
Speaker 1: Of course not?
Speaker 3: And I say it sounds so ridiculous to even say
Speaker 3: an things question, But yeah, that has to change. And
Speaker 3: these women, the majority of them are And we know
Speaker 3: how that ripple effect pays blakes, right, we know what's
Speaker 3: going to happen with those kids that gonna end up
Speaker 3: at foster care and then the slope gets real slippery
Speaker 3: from there, and you know, uh, it's it's it's a
Speaker 3: national disgrace and it doesn't get talked about enough. So
Speaker 3: I appreciate you bringing that up because well, as.
Speaker 2: We closed, I really want to ask a personal question.
Speaker 2: That is something that I struggle with, and that is
Speaker 2: the idea that we can't help everybody. You want to,
Speaker 2: but you just can't. And I wonder how you deal
Speaker 2: with that? You know, at Until Freedom our organization, we
Speaker 2: hear all the time, how come you know why Breonna Taylor?
Speaker 2: In fact, just over the recent King Holiday, another mother
Speaker 2: who is grieving the loss of her child, which was
Speaker 2: very different from Breonna Taylor's situation, but her grief turned
Speaker 2: into or attacking other people?
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And We've dealt with that many times, families, communities, people
Speaker 2: challenging us. And one of the things that I've had
Speaker 2: to accept is that I can only do what I
Speaker 2: can do. And it's like it's almost like a therapy
Speaker 2: session that I have with myself regularly, and I wonder,
Speaker 2: what do you do to deal with that anxiety of
Speaker 2: being unable to get to every case?
Speaker 3: A box, you know, try to take the aggressions out
Speaker 3: on the punching bag because it is frustrating. I mean,
Speaker 3: we can't help everybody. I wish I could. If I
Speaker 3: had a magic wand, I would turn the old country
Speaker 3: outside down to shake about ninety percent of people in
Speaker 3: prison out at least, and we would have no problem
Speaker 3: that we no infreasing crime, there will be no detriment
Speaker 3: to public safety. But unfortunately I don't have that magic
Speaker 3: wand I think all we can do is shout out
Speaker 3: from the rooftops. Tell three people today, tells three people
Speaker 3: to watch this show that you were listen to this podcast.
Speaker 3: You just hurt spread the work. That's all we can do.
Speaker 3: We got to build an arvy out there. We need
Speaker 3: an army of Tamikas and my sons and Jason's to
Speaker 3: get out there. And that's how that's how we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Have to make this change. Well, we want to thank
Speaker 1: you Jason for the work you do, you know, for
Speaker 1: gracing our podcast. Hopefully you know, Pierre be home so
Speaker 1: you know we will have it on the show and
Speaker 1: we'll be able to sit in here celebrate him being free.
Speaker 1: We're gonna make sure that we get that information that
Speaker 1: we can write respectfully. You know on request that the
Speaker 1: DA looks at this overwhelming evidence and and does the
Speaker 1: right thing by per man So thank you, Adam, and
Speaker 1: I'll go to Wrong for Convision. Make sure that you
Speaker 1: tune into Wrong for Convisions podcasts and hear about all
Speaker 1: of the cases and the people have been wrongfully convicted.
Speaker 1: We're gonna start out with Pierre. We're gonna move that
Speaker 1: a line and get all of them up.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jason flaum I hope you
Speaker 2: enjoy that very informantive interview with Jason Flauhm. It is
Speaker 2: justice for per Russian all day, and we want you
Speaker 2: to join us in our efforts at Until Freedom Out
Speaker 2: Organization to ensure that we continue to lift that we
Speaker 2: continue to lift per Russian's name and force the system
Speaker 2: to work as it is supposed to in his faith.
Speaker 1: That's right, because they quickly lock you up, but they
Speaker 1: take them hello long to let you out when them
Speaker 1: so that brings me to my I don't get it.
Speaker 1: And over the last few weeks, you know, the internet
Speaker 1: has been going a lot crazy. A lot of people
Speaker 1: I know have been having these real crazy conversations especially
Speaker 1: men from the holiday as we call. And there's been
Speaker 1: like the high about Beef said, what's disrespecting Who's ego?
Speaker 1: And all these things, and the conversation always leads to
Speaker 1: some level olds where the quote unquote is crashing out
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of people celebrating this crasher right.
Speaker 1: And I think as I got older and wiser, you know,
Speaker 1: I see things from a completely different less. I was
Speaker 1: in the school giving a presentation to these young kids,
Speaker 1: I think they were knife and tenth graders and were
Speaker 1: I showed them my what kyp of Black Verder video.
Speaker 1: We having a real deep discussion about it. If we
Speaker 1: haven't seen that, go to right Intube channel and watch that.
Speaker 1: But we're having a discussion about it. And they was
Speaker 1: like they loved the video or we're just having dialogue.
Speaker 1: And I was like, and Angelo was there, Angelo Pinto,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the core founders, and he asks
Speaker 1: the kids, what do you think are things that lead
Speaker 1: to vibes? And kids stood up and he was like,
Speaker 1: you know, because you know, you got to prove to
Speaker 1: people that you ain't scared and you ain't soft, you know,
Speaker 1: so when something happens and you get mad with somebody,
Speaker 1: you got to show them that you're not soft. And
Speaker 1: I was listening to that. Then I was listening to
Speaker 1: the internet with you know, a couple of people that
Speaker 1: I knew, we haven't interviews and they and they married.
Speaker 1: That same conversation people that's in the late twenties and thirties,
Speaker 1: and the common theme is that over this perceived ego
Speaker 1: and it's perceived having to prove that you're not soft
Speaker 1: or that you're not scared. That they were willing to
Speaker 1: completely crash out like jeopardize everything, crash like jeopardize everything. Like.
Speaker 1: There was an dialogue about young Jeezi and Gucci Man,
Speaker 1: and you know, Gucci Man I said something about his
Speaker 1: friend who died and he was saying and it was
Speaker 1: just with azy friend during their verses, and the way
Speaker 1: the world was split was confusing to right. I listened
Speaker 1: to JZ and JEZI was a grown man. They said, basically,
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna get into that because the reality
Speaker 1: is people watching us up here. These kids are trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how they saw conflict and I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna feed into what you're trying to do, right, And
Speaker 1: some people thought that that meant he was soft right,
Speaker 1: because he wasn't willing to completely drow his whole life
Speaker 1: away on a moment in one of the biggest stages
Speaker 1: he's been in the law, and he had an opportunity
Speaker 1: to teach and do something that was growing. It was
Speaker 1: people that perceived that as soft. There was people that
Speaker 1: were saying that they would throw everything away at that
Speaker 1: omen to show somebody that they was tough and perceive
Speaker 1: toughness and perceived ego you will. It's so many people
Speaker 1: in prison. I did time in prison, that so many
Speaker 1: people who had taken that same mentality that drew life.
Speaker 1: If every one of them says if they could change,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't. It did. So my thing is, why do
Speaker 1: we go down an alley that everybody who went down
Speaker 1: that same alley is saying, it ain't nothing down there
Speaker 1: but death, and we're willing to see fuck that. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna show you that I'm tough. I'm gonna keep going
Speaker 1: doing the same thing that they ain't never get nobody
Speaker 1: nowhere before. But I'm gonna die tough and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lead my family. I'll do all this shit because I
Speaker 1: need you to know that I'm not scared or my
Speaker 1: ego is big, and I'm not scared of you, and
Speaker 1: and I'm willing to crash out and that shit really,
Speaker 1: Like I've really been pondering that in my head for
Speaker 1: the last few days because I hear these conversations, and
Speaker 1: I also remember when I was young and I had
Speaker 1: those conversation and then we really and then the thing
Speaker 1: is it only in our culture, because I don't see
Speaker 1: it in no other culture, Like we're willing to die
Speaker 1: a shit that don't matter, Like we're willing to die
Speaker 1: with shit that really don't matter about what somebody thinks
Speaker 1: about me or what somebody says to me. How can
Speaker 1: I give you law control over my life that if
Speaker 1: you can say something that could force me to give
Speaker 1: up our freedom in my life, then I'm not even
Speaker 1: in controlling me. So I really want you to understand
Speaker 1: that I don't get at this point in my life.
Speaker 1: I don't know how I rationalize it as a young
Speaker 1: kid that as a young kid, do you think as
Speaker 1: a young kid, right, But it's this is something that's
Speaker 1: celebrated in our culture that's detrimental. And I would give
Speaker 1: one one example, and I'm leaving though it's going to
Speaker 1: my page on our Esseagram page. It's they're having an
Speaker 1: interview and it's a kid from Chicago talking about some
Speaker 1: people that's died and the hit opping and the beef
Speaker 1: that's supposedly big gang members. And the dude is like,
Speaker 1: they need to be slide, they need to get some guns,
Speaker 1: they need to go ride on people who did that.
Speaker 1: And dudes like, why are you telling these kids that
Speaker 1: dumb shit? The people are listening to you, and you
Speaker 1: infest in that dumb shit into kids. That dude, shitn't
Speaker 1: goes slide. He should be hold with his family. He
Speaker 1: got kids, His baby mother is already dead half all
Speaker 1: of his friends. Is there you telling him to go
Speaker 1: through the same destructive shit that already got everybody else killed.
Speaker 1: That shit ain't smart? Ain't ain't cool about that? That
Speaker 1: if you tell them the slide, my grandmothers in them streets.
Speaker 1: Will you're telling them the slide my kids is in
Speaker 1: them streets. So when you they slide and they hit
Speaker 1: the wrong person like they always do, you is possible
Speaker 1: for that, you know? So it's like I want us
Speaker 1: to really start thinking. And that's like I think the
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence and the lack of thinking in our in
Speaker 1: this culture right now is really leading to our ditricent
Speaker 1: and you know, and I just want us to really
Speaker 1: just take the time, take two seconds before you allow
Speaker 1: your emotions to supersedes your intelligence, before you throw your
Speaker 1: full life into a fucking dumpster because somebody said something
Speaker 1: to you that you did.
Speaker 2: I think that is a perfect way to end our shaw.
Speaker 2: Fore today, I would say that in order to understand
Speaker 2: where we are, you have to know where we've been,
Speaker 2: and to know that we are people who were captured, enslaved,
Speaker 2: and trafficked and then enslaved again on American soil where
Speaker 2: our men did not have power to protect the community,
Speaker 2: to protect their wives and their children. That mindset has
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways developed and sort of stem
Speaker 2: from there. That you know, I'm never going to allow
Speaker 2: anybody to demonize me or to do these things again.
Speaker 2: And we just have to retrain the ways of which
Speaker 2: we use it because we only really have the power
Speaker 2: to inflict pain on our own and I think that
Speaker 2: has a lot to do with this. So as we
Speaker 2: are here teaching young people, we need to make sure
Speaker 2: that we bring the history to them so they can learn.
Speaker 2: That's why we keep pushing You gotta go see the
Speaker 2: movie Origin. It's probably on some streaming network. Find now,
Speaker 2: go get it and watch it, because in that movie,
Speaker 2: you get a chance to learn how we have been demonized,
Speaker 2: how so many communities have been demonized. But once you
Speaker 2: understand it, then you will know more about why we
Speaker 2: react to things we need.
Speaker 1: And I agree. I just want to say one thing.
Speaker 1: There are certain things that I will to give my
Speaker 1: life to protect my fam tech people out of love
Speaker 1: to you know. Those are things that I believe are
Speaker 1: audible things that you say. Okay, I'm willing to completely
Speaker 1: crash up to make sure that the people I love
Speaker 1: are say but not for my egos because you said something,
Speaker 1: not because you said words for me to protect myself,
Speaker 1: protect my family. Yeah, those are things that that as
Speaker 1: then we're supposed to put our our you know selves
Speaker 1: on the front line for. But over like jay Z said,
Speaker 1: don't die with the block we and Mama lived that
Speaker 1: you don't own. Don't die over the gang, the gang
Speaker 1: beef that you was even born for when he got here, Like,
Speaker 1: let's not die over ship. That don't make sense, Like
Speaker 1: because when you when you lose your life trying to
Speaker 1: protect your ego, who's singing kid and people that use
Speaker 1: a books and with that said, brings us to episode.
Speaker 1: With that said, it brings us to the end of
Speaker 1: another episode information I'm not gonna always be right to me,
Speaker 1: It's not gonna always be wrong. Both always would be
Speaker 1: always be all.
Speaker 2: There, peace y'all.
Speaker 1: There is so yoni, there so yoni.
Speaker 3: There's so yoni.
Speaker 1: There's shore going through video.
Speaker 2: Bulbrics TMO every single Wednesday on iwomen dot tv.
Speaker 1: That's