WEBVTT - Vibe Coding is BS w/ Charlie Meyer 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:03.520 As Media. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:08.959 Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:23.919 ze Tron. We're here in the beautiful iHeart Radio Studios 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:25.880 in New York City, and I've got a guest, of course, 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.760 Charlie Meyer, the esteem blogger and CEO of Picko. Charlie, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.480 thank you for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me. So, yeah, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.080 you've you've gained some I would say, notoriety recently by 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.960 making blogs that go against the oinking of the hogs 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.800 of the Valley. And I think your scaling laws piece 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.040 was the one that really got going. Yeah. 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:50.840 So I my blog gets some love and mostly hate 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.680 on Hacker News. That's my distribution channel, right, and so 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.520 I'm trying to get off of that. We're gonna try 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.840 and build it like a newsletter type thing. But yeah, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.560 I'll burst on Hacker News and every once in a 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.880 while I'll go something that blows up and I'll get 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:03.200 my get my haters in there. 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.119 So, so what is it that's pissing them off? 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.720 So, like I had to post a few weeks back 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.760 that was on I called it LLLMS or the Ultimate 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.160 demoware right, And so I had to find demoware as 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.800 software that you make the software, and it works well 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.040 in the thirty minutes that you're showing off to executives 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:20.880 or whoever's going to buy it, right, and then it 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.560 doesn't do the thing right, It doesn't do the thing 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.920 day to day. And so I listed some examples and 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.360 my startups in etech, right, so we do, you know? 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.160 And so like there's always something that I pick on. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.560 Is I really hate AI tutors and we can get 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.120 into to that and how that all of courks. But 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.200 so I said, oh, I listed out a few things 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:39.800 that I thought were demoware. So it's like, oh, vibe 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:41.680 coading that makes dashboards, right now, that's an easy thing 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.920 to pick on. And I said, you know AI tutors, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.480 And I said, well, maybe the kid won't want to 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.880 talk to an AI tutor. Yeah, that was the critique 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.000 I made, right, It is like maybe they just don't 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:53.240 want to talk to him, Yeah, won't want to talk 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.200 to a post they want to maybe they want to 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.120 have like a teacher who is like in the classroom. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.320 Crazy idea maybe, yeah. But did people know like that? 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.640 Well, yeah, so some some people, uh, you know, we 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.240 can name names of for me too, But I actually 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.200 don't know how to pronounce them. So uh but anyway, 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.160 so people are in there and they're like, you have 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:14.200 no idea, Like if you think that AI can't tutor calculus, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.200 like you have never even tried, It's like it's a classic, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:22.400 Like you're missing out, Like you somehow are completely missing 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:23.320 the point. 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.000 And you know something's really good and the innovative when 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.280 the only defense of it is you're a moron. You 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.760 you well you have never tried it. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.840 And it's like, well, what if I like have like 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.000 what if this is like actually the thing I spend 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:37.400 my time on is thinking about this. 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.600 You're a non AI I d E. Right, so coding. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.919 Environment, yeah, yeah, well and that yeah, we got yeah, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.920 lots of that, lots of that. But like so the 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.000 software that I make batting around a little bit here, 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.040 but Replet was a copy and so Replet was a 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.839 very loved by Teacher's id online and their whole thing 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.040 was like we teach like we held you teach coding 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.720 online because it's a way for you to run Python 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.960 and Java and all your code online and you can 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:07.280 do it and you can do it on crumb books 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.919 and you can collaborate and they had like teacher tools 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.280 and they sold the software to schools. I was a 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:13.720 teacher for a couple of years, so it's kind of 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:15.720 like my background as an engineer and then a teacher, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.519 and I used replet and it's awesome. Well this was 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.440 this before they used A or this is before they 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.839 used AI. So so replate just for the listeners right now. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.799 Replate is an AI powered coding environment that claims to 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.640 be able to vibe code software but doesn't really. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:29.760 But what did it used to be? 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.120 So it used to be an excellent tool, just an 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.960 absolutely fantastic tool. It was it was just you go on, 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.840 you log on like Google Docs for coding, right, So, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.080 like you think, okay, well you back in the day 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.840 you'd have to download Microsoft Word and whatever and that 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.560 socks and you know, it's great to bring that online 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.520 into the cloud. And they did that and they were 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.360 like very innovative. They were kind of the first to 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.280 market of having like a very fully featured online ide 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.280 and that is useful for exactly one thing, and that 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.200 is useful for teaching in schools, right because like you 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.520 have kids and they have two hundred dollars chrumebooks that 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.600 the school bought them, and so you get Replet and 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:08.760 like boom, I have a great way to teach computer science. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.320 Now that is fantastic, and that's what it used to 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.880 be USI yeah, and now it's just and now it's yeah. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.440 It's so listen this you probably heard me mentioned Replet 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.200 in the past. It's one of my least favorite, most 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.840 favorite companies. If you go on the replet reddit. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.640 It's just the wallet inspect And so now that's kind 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.240 of like I've gotten rid of most of my like 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.080 doom scrolling places, but like this is I don't know 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.080 what type of scrolling it is, but like I go. 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.160 On our replet Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's just 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.839 so funny. It's just God being like, yeah, spend fifteen 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.440 hundred dollars. It doesn't really work. Yeah, but I think 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.560 if I spend five thousand more dollars it might. Well. 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.000 I mean people are like, okay, well should I spend 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.479 five thousand dollars? I mean we can we can be 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.760 reasonable that you can bring the numbers down to reality. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.280 It's I spent fifty dollars, which for a person who 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.600 has got a bad suffare, Yeah, that's that's a big 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.320 waste of money. And they're like, okay, well it seems 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:04.880 like I might need to spend two hundred and fifty 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:06.960 dollars more or should I go on fiver her. Yeah, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.119 and then it's just people and Reddit. I mean it's Reddit, 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:10.480 so they're just like skill issue. 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.919 Well that and also the people who were like it 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.040 am running into this problem. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:16.479 And then a lot of that yeah, where it's like 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:21.080 and but replet just just for for anyone on there 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.520 on replet right now? Yeah, like what did they do 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.400 to teachers? So teachers? They had a product for teachers 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.080 that worked, that was great, that was well teachers. And 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.480 on this November somethink twenty twenty three, this is a 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.160 big day for my business because this is the only 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.080 reason I have my business is to replace replet. Because 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.760 they turned on AI autocomplete for kids, no way to 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:43.320 shut it off. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.440 Doesn't that defeat the purpose of learning? Yeah? 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.159 So I had a I have a small YouTube channel 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.680 with not you know, a million subscribers, but you know, 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:52.479 I talked to teachers on there, and you know, we 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.200 had a customer of mine on there and they were like, yeah, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.839 you know that year, it just seemed like the guy 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.680 he just like he missed the fact the AI got 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.080 turned on, no one sentiment announcement or an email or 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:03.480 a warning. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.240 All of his students were just amazing. They were. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.760 He was like, yeah, everybody, everybody, everybody got an A 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.359 that semester, Like, I wonder, you know did that actually? 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.440 So did students actually end up getting great schools? Because 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:14.320 no one knows the AI go? 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.080 Yeah, I mean it took depending on who you If 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.240 you're wandering around the classroom looking at students and you 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.200 see them all tab completing, like because AI just. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.200 Just for the listeners as well spelled out. So with 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.919 these AI platforms, you hit tab complete because it's basically 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.200 like auto correct decoding. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.800 Yeah, and so so like AI for what it's worth, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:38.080 you know, we can be really balanced podcast. But AI 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.720 can really well, it can solve intro to computer science 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.400 for ninth grader problems with the incredible accuracy. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.520 Let's call Brown from the Internet bugs. He said. It 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.560 makes the easy things easier and the hard thing's hort. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.040 Yes, and so yeah, so if you need to, if 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.560 you're in ninth grade and you're writing your first program, 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.920 yeah you can. You can tab complete the whole thing 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.200 in one go. It'll one shot at d that's incredible. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.480 It'll one shot program. 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.320 It's this term that term just listeners is like it 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.400 means that you just give it a problem and it 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:10.560 solves it correctly. Yeah. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.400 So it's like count to ten and the AI can 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.280 count to ten, which is incredible. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.640 That's revolutionary. But fun fun fact if you try and 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.320 make chat GPT count to a million, it freaks out 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.480 if you do the voice mode. Adam Kinna told me 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.120 this one. If you go like counter a million, it 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.080 stops around nine or ten and then says should I continue, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.000 and it just won't do it. It's very funny. I 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.560 love living in the future. Yeah. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.040 So they they though they turn on the AI and 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.200 then they were like, we're not doing education and companies 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:40.239 have deprecated things. 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.920 Yeah, it happens actually not their main product whatever. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.920 So that I mean, I'll tell you, you know, I'm 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.360 an indie developer whatever. Like our software does not make 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.480 a ton of money because there isn't that much money 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.080 selling an online ide to schools. There's money, but it's 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:55.400 not it's not a billion dollar business. 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.240 It's fine. I don't know this replet but yeah, but 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.560 you can't write billions of valuations. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.080 No, no saying hey, we're you know, kids have chromebooks 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.119 and we're gonna you know, charge ten dollars a student 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:07.920 or whatever. Like you can't of course that you're not 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:08.640 going to raise a bill. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:09.000 You're not. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.680 That's not a billion dollar business, no, But the AI 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.640 thing seems magical. And then you know, the vibe coding 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.320 thing happened. And you know, as soon as the vibe 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.720 coding stuff started happening, they were like, we're all in 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.640 on this, and they deleted. They deleted every lead, so 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.400 not just deprecated. Right, So it's one thing to deprecate software. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.600 So it's like and deprecate is when you stop supporting together. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.560 You say it's it's no longer supported. When you put 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.760 up a big red scary banner on the top saying 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.160 your work is read only, you cannot create anymore. Right, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.280 that is a really mean thing to do with. But 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.280 it happens. Software changes, you know, repl it for what 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.400 it's worth to be nice and fair to them, Like 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.400 they have investors and they're under the gun to provide 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.720 some returns and so whatever. The teacher thing isn't gonna 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.160 make them a ton of money. But they deleted the stuff. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.920 Just why And when you say the stuff was this 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.240 like projects that schools have been working on. 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.400 It was so a teacher says, I'm going to spend 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.200 two three years putting in all my curriculum, all these 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.720 markdown files, all this stuff, all these tests. I'm going 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.360 to configure all this stuff. No deleted, gone. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.200 Monsters deleted actual monsters and now but they sent the 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.480 warning email ed, Wow in July. When are teachers online 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.160 looking at their work email in July? Yeah? Classic, classic, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:18.640 big month for teachers to. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.480 Be on the well for American teachers, Yeah, it's not 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.800 a huge month. So yeah, in July we say we're 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:25.640 going to delete all your stuff and then it's gone. 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.800 Was there any way to back it up? Well there 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:28.960 wasn't until they deleted it. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:29.160 All. 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.440 That's so cool. It's awesome. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.439 So they're an awesome Like if you're a replet developer, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.280 you know when when the next big thing comes up 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.760 and Replet may decide to delete all your stuff. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.640 Well replet they launched Asient three. Oh yeah, that was 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.679 my favorite launch of product I've ever seen. Because I've 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.079 mentioned this on the show before, but they it's like, oh, 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.079 it's an autonomous coding thing and it's just the digital 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.439 mister bean, it's just like, why don't you go off 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.920 and build me a software thing? And it just fucking 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.280 spends one hundred dollars and goes, I am, I don't 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.600 know you like this. I don't fucking care. And then 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.160 they had to release the thing where you could make 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.440 it think less. They had to like add tweaks to 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.840 it because it was so bad. It's I actually feel like, 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:11.400 and I'm not putting words in your mouth there, I 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.480 feel like vibe coding maybe just fraud. I think it's 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.000 a fraud. I don't it should not be legal to 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:18.880 lielight because it is a fucking lie. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:23.319 So so I will. I'll defend the vibe coder platforms. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.320 But the defense now, I mean it's it's it is. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.280 It's fraudulent, right, I mean like if you say, hey, 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.880 you don't know how to code at all, and uh yeah, 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.400 just sign on to this website and I mean look 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:38.280 at their marketing page. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.000 That's exactly what I'm loading loading. It's with a nice 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.520 blue iPhone Air. Oh yeah, beautiful. I have the I 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.840 have the Space Black. Hell yeah, the iPhone app Rise up. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.960 It's a great phone. It's a great phone. I'm not 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.560 Apple made me pay for it. Yeah, turn your ideas 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.079 into apps? What will you create? The possibilities are endless. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.240 And then it's a fake prompt that says, make me 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.240 a business tool for marketing teams that helps generate professal 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:04.880 business proposals and then add automated back up and recovery. 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.560 If I think if you asked Replet to do that, 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.160 it would cost three hundred dollars and nothing would happen. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.000 I think it would just yeah on count a light 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:14.640 like barely functional code. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.559 So I wrote a post on this and I was excited. Yeah, 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.559 and I was. I was excited to end the post 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.920 saying there has never been a successful thing. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:22.200 Ever. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.760 Unfortunately, Replet has added a set of case studies, and 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.880 I think that they use it. And so the case 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.480 studies are we sold to enterprises and we're going to 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:38.640 do prototypes of internal dev tools, not dev tools, internal 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.199 like you know, management software for inside your back office software. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.440 So they haven't had a case study since what looks 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.680 like August, and one of them is how Zinus says 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.720 one hundred and forty thousand dollars with replet and it 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.160 but it also cuts development time by fifty percent. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.160 But so then The question is did the person typing 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.280 stuff into uplet did they know how to code? 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.280 Exactly? See, that's if they know how to code whatever 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.000 the stuff, it's not vibe coding. It's just you could 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:08.880 have used custom you could use stuff. You could have 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.320 used any vs code or was it what's the free 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.440 one Amazon's doing now? Kiro? Maybe Kiro. And then there's 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.920 the I like the one that came out from China 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.439 and everyone was like, that's gonna send information to that 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.840 Chinese It's like will it? I don't know, but I 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.160 don't think they're going to Your clone of Flappy Bird 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:28.800 has got to be taken up. Yeah. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.720 The way that the word vibe coding has the meaning 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.920 that it has today I believe is you do not 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.200 know how to code. You type prompt and you get 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.760 app out. And I'm not going to dock this person 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.280 because they were nice to me once, but like there's 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.000 a person online like they just do like, oh, here's 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.760 one hundred days of AI and I'm going to make 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:52.480 a fully functional software as a service company fully and 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.280 I don't know how to code. And then you look 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:55.920 at this person and they're typing in the prompts. It's 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.440 like they clearly have like a pretty strong technical background, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.560 and then the thing still doesn't work. By the way, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:02.280 that's like. 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.320 Cool, Like they know how things work and it's still broken. 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:06.880 Yeah, so I mean whatever, this person was like a 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.520 product manager or something, so like they know what an 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.920 API is, and they know what a web server is, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.720 and they know the names of the different technologies, and 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.080 like that's going to get them part of the way there. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.160 But the idea that you can end to end create 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.400 a software product that has some value. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.560 Yeah, it's crazy. We would have heard about it. No, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.160 that's kind of your demo. Workpost was really good about 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.120 this because it was kind of like, look, you can 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.440 do the proof of concept. You can do this, but 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.440 we've never seen the next stage. And someone else did 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.320 a really good one was like shovel weear. They said, 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.480 where's the shovelwear? Where's the crap software? They I remember 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.199 the first times I was on the Internet, the amount 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.160 of weird shareware. Shit, there was just like different forms 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.800 of IRC clients and shit, there were people making weird software. 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:45.760 Why isn't that happening? 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.319 Yeah, I mean so you'll see, Okay, I made flappy Bird, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.600 I made a weird thing I made like you can 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:57.000 make little small pieces of software for yourself that maybe 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.560 have a little bit of value. It is fun, it 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.440 is an novel, yes if you know like. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.920 But then it then it doesn't work like it's so, 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:05.840 I do not know. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:07.840 I'm a web developer, so I know how to do 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.920 web apps. I call it code for shits though, yeah whatever, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:11.880 but like it's that, that's what I know. That's that's 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.360 what I've been doing. I've been coding for whatever, and 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.160 I know how to do that. I do not know 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.640 how to make iPhone apps. So I was like, okay, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.880 you know what I'm gonna do. They just announced Claude 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.640 whatever because I'm interested in this stuff. I'm an early adopter. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.880 I don't And also, if it did, what however I 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.880 may feel about AI If it actually did well, if 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.800 Vibe coding was real, that would actually be a huge dal. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.480 That would be a huge fucking dal. I wouldn't I 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.960 would have all my ethical concerns. If I could actually 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.160 build software without knowing anything, Wow, that would be great. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:42.280 Never been the case. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.480 But you tried, though, well, so I tried. So so 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.600 my idea was like, Okay, I use my phone too much. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.240 I'm gonna make an app called app snooze. It takes. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.720 So you say I want Gmail, I want it snooze 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.600 for a half hour. Got it so that when I 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:55.800 open up the Gmail app, it used this screen time 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.040 thing and it says blocked, and then thirty minutes is up. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.480 I get it back, right. That is impossible to make 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.720 using iOS essentially without like a substantial amount of work. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.960 It's it's based on like the limitations of how Apple 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.480 does their stuff with screen time. It just cannot be done. 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.880 So I type this stuff in claude is like sitting there. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.280 It's like, oh, yeah, you're You're awesome. You are killing me, dude, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.840 this is a great idea. You got this, you got this, yeah, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.080 which it actually does say in one off there. I've 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.440 been watching like the World Series or whatever, and a 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.160 lot of NFL and like the chatchypt Ads. We can 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.320 hopefully talk about those. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.160 I haven't told any of those, Okay, well, oh no, no, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.200 I love to hear about this because I'm a Raiders fan. Yeah, 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.920 and I try not to watch. If I needed to 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:42.480 watch a poorly conceived product, I could just use my 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.960 season tickets, but I solved them, so wait, but keep going. 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.320 Though, okay, well but see so it's like you got this, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.560 but then it's this is the whatever. So they have Haiku, 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.840 and they've sonn It, and they have Opus. Yes, so 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.480 whatever awesome names. But so they have son It, which 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.600 is the really good one. You know, it's very well respected. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.080 It's supposed to be it's supposed to be the cloud 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:05.320 is supposed to be a good one for coding. And 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:06.600 so I was like, I'm gonna pay. I'm gonna pay 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.640 twenty dollars. I'm just gonna see what happens. If I 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.200 can get this thing on the app Store, that'll be great. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.000 I'm gonna charge ninety nine cents. Let's see if I 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:13.640 make a hundred bucks. Sure, see if I make my 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.560 Apple Developer account back, Yeah, dump a hundred bucks into 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.720 the Apple Developer account. Awesome on Apple. By the way, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.600 you can't actually do have the app coding that you 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.640 need to without paying on a hundred bucks. So good, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.680 that's a business, that's that's Apple bang. But anyways, so 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.760 I do that. I want to make my hundred bucks back, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.560 but it cannot be done. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.640 Well, the app you couldn't build the Apple though it sounds. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.960 But because because of like literal limitations in how iOS 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.840 works in terms of like you can't have a timer 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.200 that goes off and messes with screen time. That's just 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:42.400 not a thing that Apple was. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.200 This thing called Brick, whether it's a physical device as well, 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.240 but that feels like a Bluetooth. Something's going on with Brick. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.360 I don't know. But here's here's the thing as well. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.360 With all of this, you just made me think it 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.520 is weird that the app doesn't just go yeah, I 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:56.600 can't build that NTE. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.400 It'd be nice if it did say that, and it 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.600 was this was weird. I had never observe this behavior before. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.479 And again I've posted online like okay, you know this, 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.440 you know three bees in Blueberry that thing? 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:10.399 Oh yeah, yeah. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.800 Whatever, and people I posted that on LinkedIn and someone 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.960 was like, you are lying, and I post my link. Yeah, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.639 I post the link to the chat and they're like, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.600 you had a secret prompt that told it to be stupid. 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.280 Yeah, it's prompt injection. Yeah. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.119 Yeah, like you have a system prompt that says like 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.639 it's like stupid as ship did. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.359 Yeah a piece of ship. Dude. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.000 I messed up. I put be stupid in my system. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.560 I should have put I should have put be smart. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.200