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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 2: Live from New York. I'm Caroline Hyde and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Mike Sheppard in Washington. This is Bloomberg Technology and.

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Speaker 4: Today's key story, the Supreme Court upholds the law that

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Speaker 4: threatens TikTok's shut down in the United States. We get

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Speaker 4: straight to breaking news coming from CNN, reports that Trump

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Speaker 4: will indeed make a decision on TikTok, and even the

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Speaker 4: White House saying that the TikTok action falls into the

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Speaker 4: Trump administration. According to Reuter's Bloomberg's Ben Main, this is

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Speaker 4: all perfectly obvious in many ways, and the decision was

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Speaker 4: as expected. But then take us to the letter of

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Speaker 4: the law here. Ultimately, this cannot be distributed by the

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Speaker 4: likes of the app stores.

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Speaker 2: And it cannot be supported by Oracle and others.

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Speaker 5: So that's right, and I think in looking at the

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Speaker 5: decision specifically, the Court was very clear about the national

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Speaker 5: security interest that Congress laid out in passing this law

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Speaker 5: and President Biden signing it as being more important or

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Speaker 5: the most important thing when considering whether to let this

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Speaker 5: law stand versus the arguments that from a free speech perspective,

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Speaker 5: TikTok is important, and certainly from a commerce perspective, for

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Speaker 5: the whatever percentage of one hundred and seventy million Americans

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Speaker 5: that use this app, they need to rely on it.

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Speaker 5: So essentially, the Supreme Court went ahead today and said

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Speaker 5: national security, this argument is justified here. And now it

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Speaker 5: does fall to Donald Trump, and remembering back to his

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Speaker 5: first term, this is a very different posture that he's

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Speaker 5: taking here. He and his administration came out in favor

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Speaker 5: of taking action against TikTok during his first term, and

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Speaker 5: now we're seeing a very different position here, and we're

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Speaker 5: going to see what happens Monday.

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Speaker 3: So, Ben, your team has been covering the TikTok legal

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Speaker 3: saga for months now, ever since they filed their claim

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Speaker 3: back in May. But the story is not over. Talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit about how the reprieve might work under

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Speaker 3: the law and what the Justice Department perhaps could do

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Speaker 3: to hold back on enforcement, at least at first.

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Speaker 6: Exactly so effectively.

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Speaker 5: Now that this law is on the books, I mean

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Speaker 5: it was on the books, but now that it's going

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Speaker 5: to stay on the books, it falls to the executive

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Speaker 5: branch and the president, and certainly the Justice Department and

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump's incoming Justice Department and Attorney General.

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Speaker 6: To enforce it.

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Speaker 5: What we understand is that Donald Trump very much wants

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Speaker 5: to cut this deal. He has said that he is.

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Speaker 5: In his brief that was a Friend of the Court

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Speaker 5: brief filed a few weeks ago, he said he's the

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Speaker 5: person who can cut this deal once he takes office.

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Speaker 5: So I don't think we're going to see any movement

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Speaker 5: necessarily in the next few hours or the next day

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Speaker 5: or two. But Donald Trump, once he comes in, has

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Speaker 5: made clear that he wants to get this done. He

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Speaker 5: wants to figure out a solutionaire and he thinks he

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Speaker 5: can do it. Like he has expressed the ability and

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Speaker 5: confidence in himself to do many things, this is one

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Speaker 5: of them he thinks he can get done. So the

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Speaker 5: next step is essentially whether a deal is going to

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Speaker 5: get done. That both the outgoing Biden administration and the

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Speaker 5: incoming Trump administration have signaled they are not going to

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Speaker 5: enforce this ban immediately, so we're not going to see

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Speaker 5: January nineteenth, the Biden administration Justice Department really taking any

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Speaker 5: action and we're not expecting to see the Trump administration

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Speaker 5: do anything when they take office on Monday as well.

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Speaker 4: Bloom Meg's Ben Main we thank you, but well, could

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Speaker 4: TikTok and bite douts decide to do on the nineteenth

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Speaker 4: We turn to bluem Meg's Alexandra Levine for that, alex

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Speaker 4: they could decide that we can't use it, and indeed

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Speaker 4: the infrastructure might not be there to support it absolutely.

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Speaker 7: So, we've seen reports that TikTok is thinking of just

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Speaker 7: shutting the app off, making it go dark on its own,

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Speaker 7: and we heard some references during the Supreme Court hearing

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Speaker 7: last week to TikTok going dark, and it didn't quite

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Speaker 7: make sense because we knew TikTok was never going to

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Speaker 7: go dark immediately, because once Apple and Google and Oracle

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Speaker 7: begin to stop hosting and distributing the platform, we knew

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Speaker 7: that what it would be would be a slow deterioration

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Speaker 7: for people who use the app, not in immediate going dark.

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Speaker 7: What we've heard in reports though more recently, is that

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Speaker 7: TikTok made to shut the whole thing off come Sunday,

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Speaker 7: and that users who open the app may see some

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Speaker 7: kind of a pop up that directs them to a

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Speaker 7: website to talk about the ban. And it's a really

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Speaker 7: fascinating strategic move if that does come to pass, because

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Speaker 7: I think it would really mobilize one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 7: million Americans, which is roughly half the country, to be

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Speaker 7: angry about this, to protest it, and then to of

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Speaker 7: course demand action from Trump and his new team to

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Speaker 7: do something about it.

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Speaker 3: Alex, those protests didn't succeed in getting the ban staved

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Speaker 3: off back in March and April when it was going

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Speaker 3: through Congress. Do we think they'll stand a better chance

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Speaker 3: this time around with the incoming Trump administration those kinds

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Speaker 3: of appeals.

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Speaker 7: I do think these kinds of appeals could have more

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Speaker 7: luck this time. You know, when TikTok mobilized its very

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Speaker 7: dedicated base to call Congress right when the law was

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Speaker 7: introduced to try to prevent them from passing it, it

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Speaker 7: actually stoked lawmakers' fears even more about the potential for

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Speaker 7: the app to create outrage, to create discord, to really

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Speaker 7: anger lots of Americans, and it actually drove home the

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Speaker 7: point for them that they needed to do something about

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Speaker 7: the app in this case, now that Trump has campaign

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Speaker 7: on the app, he credits the app potentially with him

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Speaker 7: reaching many young voters that he thinks moved the needle

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Speaker 7: for him. I think he's going to be a much

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Speaker 7: more willing audience for any kinds of pressure. And we're

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Speaker 7: already seeing creators who, for example, were live streaming outside

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Speaker 7: the Supreme Court last week. Who are you know sending

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Speaker 7: the message? Trump campaigned on promising that he would help

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Speaker 7: us with the app. He would say if he would

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Speaker 7: resuscitate it, and now we're going to hold him to

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Speaker 7: his word on that.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Alexandra Levin, thank you so much. Let's bring in

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Speaker 3: Gen Munster now from Deepwater Asset Management. Gene talk us

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Speaker 3: through what this means for all the competitors out there

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Speaker 3: to TikTok. If you're an investor looking to trade this,

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Speaker 3: it is murky. You have the Supreme Court in upholding

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Speaker 3: this ban, and yet you have Donald Trump saying he

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Speaker 3: may give the company a reprieve. What is an investor

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Speaker 3: or trader to do now?

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Speaker 8: Well, Meta Trader deep Water we own Meta, and as

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Speaker 8: an owner of Meta, we're expecting that this ban is

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Speaker 8: not going to be upheld at the end of the day.

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Speaker 8: This even though despite what's happened with the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 8: I think that writing is clearly on the wall. TikTok

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Speaker 8: is going to remain, and the big change wasn't about

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Speaker 8: the Supreme Court largely doesn't matter. What matters is the

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Speaker 8: tone on the Democratic Party. And I think that that

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Speaker 8: speaks to what is a strong bipartisan support back in

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Speaker 8: April eighty two, eighty seven percent the House and Senate support.

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Speaker 8: Typically a bill gets passed around fifty five percent, So

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Speaker 8: this is unprecedented bipartisan support that is now shifting. And

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Speaker 8: I think that for an investor, from investor standpoint, I

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Speaker 8: think that one piece is just for meta that we're

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Speaker 8: expecting kind of a five up to a ten percent

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Speaker 8: tailwind if they would have captured fifty seventy five percent

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Speaker 8: of that time spent on Instagram reels. And so I

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Speaker 8: think I'll start there, Mike Is. I think that that's

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Speaker 8: from investor piece. There's another lesson here for investors that

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Speaker 8: go well beyond what's happening with TikTok. And there's no

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Speaker 8: other app in the world that I can imagine that

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Speaker 8: could cause this kind of uprise, And the reason is

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Speaker 8: it is the power of a strong product an addictive

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Speaker 8: product and the power of I think people in this

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Speaker 8: case that product influencing political decision. And so what does

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Speaker 8: that mean for broader investing is that companies that have

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Speaker 8: that leverage, and in Nvidia, for example, it's just really

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Speaker 8: hard to displace.

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Speaker 4: Really interesting considering the pressure in video is putting on

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Speaker 4: the next set of potential laws coming its way to

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Speaker 4: limit its selling abroad. Gene this about face of lawmakers,

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Speaker 4: this bipartisanship of against TikTok to now suddenly everyone wanting

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Speaker 4: to see it continue. How does that materialize in the

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Speaker 4: next few days. I know it's hard to discern, but

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Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer, of course, minority leader in the Senate saying

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Speaker 4: we need to find a US buyer. What does that

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Speaker 4: mean for the addiction of the algorithm with a new owner.

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Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I don't think it's going to

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Speaker 8: there will be a new owner. I think that ultimately

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Speaker 8: what will happen is this is going to go back

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Speaker 8: to some sort of House and Senate vote, and I

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Speaker 8: think that it actually will h TikTok will be allowed

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Speaker 8: to remain. I think that there's just that much political pressure.

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Speaker 8: What we saw from buying today was I think evidence

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Speaker 8: of how strong that political pressure is. If I'm wrong

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Speaker 8: and there's ultimately a sale, that algorithm effectively doesn't change.

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Speaker 8: I think the question wasn't whether or not, from a

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Speaker 8: logistics standpoint, whether the algorithm would change, as where as

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Speaker 8: that data ultimately go. And so I don't think that

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Speaker 8: that piece changes.

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Speaker 3: Jane, we saw that Donald Trump spoke today with Chinese

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Speaker 3: President Xi Jianping, whose blessing would be needed ultimately for

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Speaker 3: any sale of the app by byte Dance. Do you

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Speaker 3: see any buyers emerging, perhaps including Elon Musk, whose name

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Speaker 3: has been floated in Chinese circles.

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Speaker 8: So I'm wrong, and this does go the route of

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Speaker 8: a sale, Elon's a buyer. I think there can be

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Speaker 8: other constituents. You could see groups potentially telcos involved with

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Speaker 8: a sale. We've seen them start to venture into things

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Speaker 8: like this, of course Megacap, and maybe they've got some

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Speaker 8: more room with closer relationship that Megacap has had with

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Speaker 8: the Trump administration. So something along those lines, and so

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Speaker 8: I mean something will come on. It's worth probably fifty

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Speaker 8: to one hundred billion dollars somewhere in that range, which

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Speaker 8: for these companies is a very doable ticket. So again,

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Speaker 8: I think that TikTok users should rest easy because they're

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Speaker 8: going to get their product. They're going to get to

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Speaker 8: continue their product, whether it's in the current form or

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Speaker 8: just under some new leadership.

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Speaker 4: Wow, up to one hundred billion, Gene Munster, It's been

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Speaker 4: great to have you from deep Water Asset Management. Thank

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Speaker 4: you coming up as tech CEOs. They flock tomorrow lago

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Speaker 4: and then to the inauguration. How will industry policy change

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Speaker 4: under the upcoming Trump administration? Jason Oxman's joining us on

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Speaker 4: the Information Technology Industry Council. That's next. Meanwhile, keep a

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Speaker 4: close eye on Intel shares. We digress from TikTok for

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Speaker 4: but a moment. Shares rising after a report from a

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Speaker 4: website called semi accurate and semi being of course about semikinductors.

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Speaker 4: But he said the company will be potentially an acquisition target.

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Speaker 9: But this is Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 6: Today.

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Speaker 8: An oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme.

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Speaker 3: Wealth, power and influence that literally threads our entire democracy.

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Speaker 2: Are basic grades in freedoms.

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Speaker 4: President Biden, speaking from the Oval Office on Wednesday, taking

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Speaker 4: aim at what he calls a tech industrial complex.

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Speaker 2: While he didn't name anyone.

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Speaker 4: In particular, several of the biggest names in the industry

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Speaker 4: have donated millions to President Trump's inaugural fund and plan

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Speaker 4: of course, to attend the ceremony on Monday. Bloomberg's Kaylee

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Speaker 4: Lines is in Washington with more and well. One key

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Speaker 4: partner of his throughout the campaign and donating millions was

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Speaker 4: Elon Musk, and now many more follow suit.

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Speaker 2: Kaye. Who will be there on Monday, Well, it's a

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Speaker 2: laundry list, Carolina.

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Speaker 10: A lot of wealth is going to be not just

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Speaker 10: at the inauguration, but physically on the platform with Donald

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Speaker 10: Trump as he takes the oath of office, seated next

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Speaker 10: to the likes of a senior members of Congress, cabinet secretaries,

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Speaker 10: and even former presidents. Elon Musk, of course, who you're

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Speaker 10: referring to. They're the world's richest man, but the second

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Speaker 10: and third richest man men according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index,

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Speaker 10: will also be there. Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos will

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Speaker 10: be in attendance. Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, also

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Speaker 10: according to our reporting, is planning to attend. One notable

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Speaker 10: exception maybe is the CEO of Nvidia, Jensen Wong that's

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Speaker 10: just a travel thing. He's currently in Southeast Asia. But

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Speaker 10: by and large, this is going to be a huge

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Speaker 10: who of big technology and noteworthy, especially given the news

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Speaker 10: today the TikTok band being upheld by the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 10: The CEO of TikTok, Show Chew, will also be an inauguration,

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Speaker 10: though we've been told that he's just attending. He won't

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Speaker 10: actually get one of those prize seats up on the platform.

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Speaker 10: But that platform is going to be stacked with a

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Speaker 10: lot of wealth.

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Speaker 2: Just those three.

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Speaker 10: Individuals Musk, Zuckerberg, and Bezos together collectively have a net

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Speaker 10: worth of nearly one trillion.

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Speaker 11: Dollars, Kaylee.

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Speaker 3: With Donald Trump taking attendance in a way and making

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Speaker 3: sure that all of these industry allies and billionaires are

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Speaker 3: there in his court, what are they looking for from

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Speaker 3: him in return?

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Speaker 10: Well, you can take for example, Tim Cook, because we've

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Speaker 10: actually seen this in the first Trump administration. Apple would

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Speaker 10: be highly susceptible to potentially problematic tariffs on things like

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Speaker 10: China that would have drastic impact on the iPhone. So

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Speaker 10: there are policies in which they are hoping they might

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Speaker 10: be able to avoid negative impact. And the same goes

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Speaker 10: for social media companies. We've already seen Mark Zuckerberg taking

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Speaker 10: action at meta reshuffling, personnel reshuffling policy as well as

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Speaker 10: they've stopped fact checking or they're going to be pulling

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Speaker 10: back on it. And we've heard from President Biden in

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Speaker 10: his Oval Office address there. Yes he didn't name Mark

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Speaker 10: Zuckerberg directly, but in his warning about a burgeoning American oligarchy,

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Speaker 10: he specifically referenced social media companies pulling back on fact checking.

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Speaker 2: So it was only so veiled.

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Speaker 10: So a large part of this is trying to make

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Speaker 10: sure that big tech can see its interest aligning with

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Speaker 10: the president, who has not been shy about targeting some

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Speaker 10: of these companies in the past.

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Speaker 3: Right Bloomberg's Kaylee lines, thank you so much. Here with

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Speaker 3: more on tech policy under the incoming Trump administration is

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Speaker 3: Jason Oxman, President and CEO of the Information Technology Information

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Speaker 3: Technology Industry Council. Jason, thank you for joining us today. Jason.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to talk to you a little bit more

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Speaker 3: about trade and your concerns there. This is something that

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Speaker 3: your group has singled out as an area of priority

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Speaker 3: and of concern. The Biden administration has put a lot

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Speaker 3: of pressure in particular on China, but that has a

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Speaker 3: ripple effect.

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Speaker 10: Talk about that a little.

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Speaker 11: What we're really looking for and enthusiastically looking for from

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Speaker 11: the Trump administration is more of a strategy that takes

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Speaker 11: advantage of opportunities for US companies to succeed internationally. Leadership

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Speaker 11: and technology. That's what the US is known for, and

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Speaker 11: what we've seen in the Biden administration, unfortunately, is a

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Speaker 11: lack of strategy, an inability to match the significant and

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Speaker 11: serious national security interests with economic activity that promotes US

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Speaker 11: opportunities internationally. So on trade, our excitement and enthusiasm about

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Speaker 11: the Trump administration is they're very focused on working in

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Speaker 11: partnership to address the China question. And we've seen the

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Speaker 11: President elect already talk to President she about the strategy

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Speaker 11: for dealing with that, about moving forward, working together. What

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Speaker 11: we want to make sure happens US technology leadership continues.

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Speaker 11: The economic driver of the US economy is technology, so

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Speaker 11: we can make sure that trade becomes a real opportunity

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Speaker 11: for further growth.

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Speaker 4: Jason, do we not need, though, acts like a potential

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Speaker 4: banning of a significant social media app that touches one

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Speaker 4: hundred and seventy million users to ensure national security. That

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Speaker 4: was bipartisan in nature, and yes, Trump might come in

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Speaker 4: and have a conversation with she about it, but ultimately

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Speaker 4: this was bipartisan in nature because of national security concerns.

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Speaker 11: The TikTok news of the days, of course very interesting,

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Speaker 11: and one hundred and seventy million people are watching the

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Speaker 11: outcome there. I don't have any prediction about what's going

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Speaker 11: to happen on Monday at noon when President elect Trump

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Speaker 11: takes over, but it does highlight how really difficult these

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Speaker 11: issues are to address, and the larger question of how

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Speaker 11: we address the China issue, I think is one that

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Speaker 11: requires a real strategy. And what we're looking forward to,

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Speaker 11: what the tech industry is looking forward to in the

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Speaker 11: Trump administration is he does seem to have more of

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Speaker 11: a focus on making this a strategic approach rather than

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Speaker 11: just a one off approach. For example, we saw earlier

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Speaker 11: this week the Biden administration adopted rules around AI diffusion.

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Speaker 11: So these are rules that restrict the ability of US

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Speaker 11: companies to export AI technology, including too allied countries around

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Speaker 11: the world. That's a huge mistake. It wasn't done in

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Speaker 11: consultation with industry. We think the Trump administration will do

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Speaker 11: a better job with that kind of issue. But that's

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Speaker 11: an example of the need to balance national security with

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Speaker 11: economic interests and make sure that US leadership is not

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Speaker 11: harmed by skewing too far in one direction or the other.

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Speaker 11: That's what we're looking forward to seeing done differently in

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Speaker 11: the trumpstration.

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Speaker 4: And certainly Jensen Huang of in videos maybe feels similarly

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Speaker 4: and in video pushed back significantly against that latest announcement announcement.

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Speaker 2: But what is interesting is that perhaps jd Vance has.

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Speaker 4: Supported well some views coming from Lena Khan, for example,

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Speaker 4: about some of the strength and the overall domination some

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Speaker 4: would say of certain players in tech. Just listen to

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Speaker 4: what Lena Khan said a little bit about the bipartisan

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Speaker 4: nature of that.

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Speaker 12: There's no doubt that there is strong bipartisan concern about

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Speaker 12: the economic power of large technology companies and how that

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Speaker 12: can undermine fair competition, undermine people's free speech rights, and

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Speaker 12: so well. Of course, have to see what the next

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Speaker 12: administration does, but it's certainly been an area of strong

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Speaker 12: bipartisan concern during my tenure.

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Speaker 4: The FTC chair has some support, as I say, from

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Speaker 4: Vice President elect. Will you see an enthusiasm around future

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Speaker 4: M and A in technology.

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Speaker 11: Do you think, well, Leida Khana has about seventy two

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Speaker 11: hours left on the job, and the person that the

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Speaker 11: President ELECTA is designated to replace her has taken a

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Speaker 11: much more balanced approach and we think a more favorable

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Speaker 11: approach to advancing US innovation. Look, the President himself is

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Speaker 11: a technology innovator. He is surrounding himself by technology innovators

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Speaker 11: who are coming into office, people who will be serving

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Speaker 11: in crucial roles and understand the vital role that the

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Speaker 11: US technology industry plays in economic growth. As far as

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Speaker 11: trade and export around technology. For example, we run a

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Speaker 11: three hundred billion dollars surplus in the US on digital trade,

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Speaker 11: that's exports of US technology around the world. So I

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Speaker 11: think as long as we can place regulators as the

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Speaker 11: President elect is looking to do, who are willing to

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Speaker 11: listen to industry and make sure that balance is struck

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Speaker 11: between national security and economic growth, I think will be

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Speaker 11: in a much better place for the next four years

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Speaker 11: to ensure that the technology industry can work in partnership

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Speaker 11: with government to advance economic growth.

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Speaker 4: Jason Oxman, President of the Information Technology Industry Council, Thanks

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Speaker 4: so much for your time today. We must return to

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Speaker 4: the TikTok decision that came from the Supreme Court earlier today,

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Speaker 4: standing by the law to ban or divest. The latest

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Speaker 4: coming from President elect Trump on truth Social Trump saying

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Speaker 4: that the TikTok decision will come in the not too

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Speaker 4: distant future from him. He says he needs time to

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Speaker 4: review the TikTok situation. Obviously he's been promising to solve it.

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Speaker 4: Bloomberg Intelligence senior analyst man Neet Sing joins us now.

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Speaker 4: And if I'm an oracle and an infrastructure provider, if

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Speaker 4: I'm Apple and I'm Google, the app providers, what.

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Speaker 2: Do I do in this situation on the nineteenth.

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Speaker 13: I mean, given the liabilities of you know, keeping the

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Speaker 13: app up, you are going to shut it down periods,

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Speaker 13: so the app will go. Derek, The question is what

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Speaker 13: will the President Trump do on day one? And my

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Speaker 13: sense is, given all the tech executives are coming to

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Speaker 13: his inauguration, you'll probably find a way to migrate that

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Speaker 13: TikTok data to the competing platforms, whether it's YouTube or meta.

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Speaker 13: Because right now everyone is scared like they will suddenly

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Speaker 13: lose all their business because all the followers and the

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Speaker 13: content will go away. Well, guess what if you can

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Speaker 13: migrate that data to a meta or a YouTube, then

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Speaker 13: you can potentially keep your business running. So that data

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Speaker 13: aspect is huge. I think far too much focus has

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Speaker 13: gone on the sale of the US business in this case.

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Speaker 13: If you can migrate the data, even if you keep

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Speaker 13: aside the algorithm, the data is huge because that's what

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Speaker 13: I think everyone cares about when you talk to the

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Speaker 13: creators and the people who consume the content, and I

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Speaker 13: think the migration of data would be a huge factor

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Speaker 13: when it comes to the future of TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Mendeep. We've seen Donald Trump present himself as the deal

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Speaker 3: maker and he really would like to see this problem

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Speaker 3: solved by selling it and finding a buyer, but that

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Speaker 3: is no easy feat. He talked about some of the hurdles,

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Speaker 3: including the cost and then who would be able to

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Speaker 3: pay for it, and then clear the national security hurdles.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, look, there has been some private equity interest in

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Speaker 13: the past, and obviously Musk has been mentioned as a

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Speaker 13: potential buyer given you know, his closeness with President Trump

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Speaker 13: and also uh you know, with the Chinese authorities. So

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Speaker 13: clearly there are a number of potential buyers, even you know,

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Speaker 13: the likes of Walmart and Oracle who have been mentioned

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Speaker 13: in the past. So I can see a lot of

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Speaker 13: companies being entrusted in acquiring an asset like TikTok, and

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Speaker 13: you can see how sticky it is. I mean, all

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Speaker 13: the millions of people who are using it clearly want

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Speaker 13: the platform to stay. And that's where I think, given

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Speaker 13: the stickiness of the platform, finding a potential buyer is

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Speaker 13: the most likely option I think President Trump is going

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Speaker 13: to go with. But at the same time, I think

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Speaker 13: that data migration aspect is huge because that's going to

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Speaker 13: solve probably half of the problem when it comes to

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Speaker 13: the users of the platform.

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Speaker 4: A lot of this, of course takes byte Dance or

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Speaker 4: indeed China's sign off. Bloomberg Intelligence senior annist Manny Singh,

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Speaker 4: and of course a reminder of some of the investors

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Speaker 4: in byte Dance that might benefit.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to bloomag Technology. I'm karenin Hyde in New.

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Speaker 4: York and I'm Mike Shepard and Washington quick check on

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Speaker 4: these markets, and Mike, we look at the ramifications of

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Speaker 4: the highly anticipated Supreme Court decision on TikTok. They decide

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Speaker 4: that the law stands that it has to be banned

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Speaker 4: or divested, and ultimately doesn't have much of an effect

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Speaker 4: on some of the competitors that were meant to be

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Speaker 4: most implicated by potentially a TikTok ban. Meta Platforms up

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Speaker 4: six ten percent, Alphabet Currying up one point eight percent.

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Speaker 4: We're looking at Snap though off by one point seven percent,

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Speaker 4: which had been one of the most volatile stocks in

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Speaker 4: relationship to TikTok's remaining. In the United States, everyone now

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Speaker 4: waiting with baited breath as to what lawmakers do, what

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Speaker 4: Trump does. He takes to truth social of course, to

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Speaker 4: say a decision is imminent.

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Speaker 2: Let's get more.

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Speaker 4: From Remberg's Kurt Wagner, because the Supreme Court leaves it

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Speaker 4: up to the lawmakers, and there's a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: We've got a watch kut.

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Speaker 14: There are, and there are so much that's going to

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Speaker 14: happen over the next seventy two hours, Caroline, because while

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Speaker 14: the Supreme Court did uphold the law, this was something

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Speaker 14: that we all expected. Right now, the ball is essentially

439
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 14: in Donald Trump's court, so the band should kick in Sunday,

440
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 14: he said, I'm looking for ways to get around this.

441
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 14: Everyone expects that there will be some type of executive

442
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 14: order once he takes office to try and delay this,

443
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 14: maybe give TikTok more time to find a buyer, But

444
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 14: of course TikTok says they don't want a buyer. So

445
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 14: there are so many sort of unique elements to this thing.

446
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 14: I think it'd be a little premature to say anyone

447
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 14: knows exactly what's going to happen over the weekend and

448
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 14: into the inauguration day. But this was one thing that

449
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 14: is at least now off the table, the idea that

450
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 14: the Supreme Court could save TikTok, and we can now

451
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 14: focus on the other options, which again mostly center around

452
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 14: Donald Trump.

453
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 3: In those options, don Donald Trump Kurt really do centers.

454
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: We were just discussing on finding a buyer. We did

455
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: see one Frank McCourt, the billionaire behind the Project Liberty proposal.

456
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: Do they have the energy and wherewithal to pull that off?

457
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: We know that his partner, Kevin O'Leary, was at mar

458
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: A Lago to talk to Trump about TikTok.

459
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 14: They do have the energy, certainly, they've been out talking

460
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 14: about this for a long time. We spoke with Frank

461
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 14: McCourt in our Bloomberg Opices just a few weeks ago,

462
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 14: and he was very optimistic that they could get a

463
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 14: deal done. I think the question is, does Bitte Dance

464
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 14: want to play Baul right? I think everyone on sort

465
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 14: of the US government side of the fence wants a

466
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 14: deal to get done because that is what keeps TikTok around.

467
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 14: Certainly President Donald Trump wants a deal to get done.

468
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 14: It's really up to will Bite Dance in the Chinese government,

469
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 14: you know, say yes, we are willing to sell to

470
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 14: a Frank McCourt or someone else. And I think that's

471
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 14: the much larger hurdle that needs to happen here. I

472
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 14: don't think it's for lack of interest or energy on

473
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 14: the Frank McCourt side. I think it really comes down

474
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 14: to does Bite Dancy Frank McCord as a valid acquirer

475
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 14: of this asset.

476
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, thank you so much. Now let's bring

477
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: in Sarah O. Lamb for more. She is a senior

478
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: fellow at the Tech Policy Institute here in Washington. Sarah,

479
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: what do we take in terms of the long term

480
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: from this decision? What kind of a lasting impact on jurisprudence?

481
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: With respect to tech and content. Can we take from it?

482
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 15: Well, it was really interesting reading the opinion which came

483
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 15: out this morning at ten am. It was a pure

484
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 15: curium opinion, which means it's for the court, with two

485
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 15: concurring opinions attached, one by Justice Sodo Mayor and one

486
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 15: by Justice Gorsig. They decided the case on the merits

487
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 15: on the First Amendment question, and they found that the

488
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 15: band survives intermediate scrutiny, it's constitutional, and Congress has valid

489
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 15: content neutral reasons for regulating TikTok. So they first go

490
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 15: through is it a First Amendment question properly before us?

491
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 15: And they say yes, And then they go through the

492
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 15: First Amendment analysis, finding that the law was facially content neutral,

493
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 15: it was justified by a content neutral rationale, that TikTok

494
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 15: brought a claim, but that under intermediate scrutiny the law

495
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 15: is valid. So this decision will be, you know, part

496
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 15: of the canon or part of the First Amendment jurisprudence.

497
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 15: And Justice Gorsa she even said he feels uncomfortable, you

498
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 15: know that the Court is making such a big decision

499
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 15: based on a handful of days of deliberation, but that

500
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 15: it's narrow enough that they issued a pure procureum opinion

501
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 15: and they all are in agreement.

502
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 4: So they're in agreement that national security was the key

503
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 4: here and that ultimately First Amendment right stays if you're

504
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 4: able to find a different buyer. It's mainly the issue

505
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 4: of who owns the parent company of who owns TikTok,

506
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: and indeed how close bite does is to China?

507
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: So what next?

508
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: How can you alleviate that national security issue? Who would

509
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: have to be a US buyer? Is there any way

510
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: that we cannot see it divested?

511
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 16: Right?

512
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 15: Well, that's a really good observation. Nothing else has changed.

513
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 15: So Congress has made a determination. The President five years

514
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 15: ago even raised questions about China being a foreign adversary

515
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 15: and having impact on the algorithms. So even the prediction

516
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 15: markets are looking at well, will the ban be in

517
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 15: play in May twenty twenty five, so you know, how

518
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 15: much can really change? Will there be changes in their systems,

519
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 15: in their ownership structure. That's all still to be determined,

520
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 15: but the concerns are still there. Yeah, there is strikingly

521
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 15: bipartisan support by Congress. No legislative legislator really disputed the

522
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 15: national security risks, So those are all still there, but now.

523
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: They're changing their mind. That seems to be a complete

524
00:27:59,359 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: about face.

525
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: Everyone wants to ensure that on the nineteenth puff we

526
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: don't suddenly lose TikTok Sarah. We're also seeing the user

527
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: based flock to other Chinese run companies. Lemonade is owned

528
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 4: by bike Dance. We're seeing red Note becoming a key focus.

529
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: Is that going to be a concern? Is that a

530
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: national security issue?

531
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 15: Isn't it ironic? I think it's interesting and it is

532
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 15: a kind of a political popular culture moment where American

533
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 15: policy makers have to kind of make the case to

534
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 15: American young people that social media apps that are made

535
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 15: here in the US are preferable. But really they're competing

536
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 15: on stickiness. The apps are sticky. TikTok is fun to

537
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 15: be on. So, if anything, there might be implications for

538
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 15: American policy makers to be more sympathetic to American companies

539
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 15: building social media apps.

540
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: Sarah. How does this fit into the broader game between

541
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 3: Washington and Beijing when it comes to trade and technology policy.

542
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: Does this become if a sale goes through and China

543
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: approves it, does this become a point of leverage for

544
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: shijiin ping his dealings with Donald Trump. We saw they

545
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: spoke today.

546
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, Well, TikTok and the sticky apps, they're definitely a

547
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 15: feather in their cap. China's very good at making these apps,

548
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 15: and so you know, it would be surprising if they

549
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 15: let bite, dance, divest. I mean, if I were them,

550
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 15: that's a very strong point of leverage. But President Trump

551
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 15: is good at negotiating a deal, and so there are

552
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 15: private buyers as well. What could happen is they could

553
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 15: buy the TikTok brand so and rebuild the whole infrastructure.

554
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 15: It would be a different app, a different stack, but

555
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 15: it would still have presumably the same social graph that

556
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 15: TikTok has, but not the sauce the source code that

557
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 15: makes it so sticky. It raises a question of like

558
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 15: where are the American competitors, Like Caroline mentioned snap earlier

559
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 15: Snapchat threads like why are these apps not getting all

560
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 15: the traffic that might come off of TikTok. So I

561
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 15: think it's a good moment for Americans to think about, well,

562
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 15: why don't we have a TikTok that's homegrown? Can we

563
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 15: have one that's better built, and let's keep Americans happy

564
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 15: on American apps. I think that is a presumption that

565
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 15: maybe all the scrutiny of social media companies has maybe lost.

566
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 15: I mean, there's a balance between you know, regulating and

567
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 15: warning of dangers, but then there's also this competition that's

568
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 15: going on. So I think it's an interesting moment.

569
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a new competitor.

570
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 4: Clapper Texas Bace joins ing joining the network a little

571
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 4: bit later. Sarah Lamb, Senior Fellow at the Tech Policy Institute.

572
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: Great to have your take today, Thank you.

573
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 4: Coming up shifting gears to SpaceX and Blue Origin, both

574
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 4: facing some setbacks during their most recent launches. Next, this

575
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: is bloomerg Technology.

576
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 17: I know this maybe.

577
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 9: What this.

578
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: Footage taken of SpaceX's Starship rocket exploding in the sky

579
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: just minutes into its seventh test flight. This didn't worry

580
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: found that Enol Musk, writing on XT quote, this is

581
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: barely a bump in the road.

582
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: For more.

583
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: Bloomberg's Lauren Grush joins us for more, and Lauren, they

584
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: did make that extraordinary catch of.

585
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: The super super heavy booster, so steps.

586
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 4: Being made not totally up into the right though.

587
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

588
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 18: The weird part of this entire test launch is that

589
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 18: they actually achieved their secondary objective, which was to make

590
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 18: that catch, but then the actual main objective of the flight, which.

591
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 6: Is to test out Starship in.

592
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 18: Space, it cut quite short, which is unexpected given the

593
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 18: SETI progress that they've been making on these flights over

594
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 18: the last couple of years.

595
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: Lauren, we didn't see too much gnashing of teeth from

596
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: SpaceX or from Elon Musk. They really seem to, as

597
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: he called it, as just.

598
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: A bump in the road.

599
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 3: Talk about their approach towards things like this. When things

600
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: don't go their way, do they just go back to

601
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: the drawing board and there is even no change in

602
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 3: their launch schedule.

603
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 16: Yeah.

604
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 6: Absolutely.

605
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 18: This is kind of all about, you know, SpaceX's culture

606
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 18: and how they liked to test. They like to fly frequently.

607
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 18: Sometimes they'll break things while they fly. They learn from

608
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 18: those moments, and then they go back and they change

609
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 18: and make updates and fla again rather quickly. They're a

610
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 18: bit of an outlier when it comes to the space

611
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 18: industry for doing this. You know, a lot of other

612
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 18: companies and even NASA are a bit risk averse, but

613
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 18: for them, they embrace this risk, and so for them

614
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 18: it's really a learning experience. It definitely would say was

615
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 18: unexpected just given the steadied progress that they've been making.

616
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 18: You know, this is their shortest test flight, I think

617
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 18: since the first couple that they.

618
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 6: Did a few years back.

619
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 18: So you know, we weren't really anticipating an explosion like this.

620
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: Blue Origin making steps forward.

621
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 6: Yes, it's speak.

622
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 18: You know, it's been a wild week on the space

623
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 18: beak for US space reporters.

624
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 6: Please have mercy on us.

625
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 18: So the morning of the starship launch, Blue Origins new

626
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 18: when launched for the very first time on its debut flight,

627
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 18: and unlike most rockets, it did achieve orbit on its

628
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 18: very first launch attempt, which is a very amazing accomplishment

629
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 18: for the company. They did try to land the rocket

630
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 18: after the flight. Bacex has perfected with its Falcon nine. Unfortunately,

631
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 18: it did miss the landing on the barge at see

632
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 18: that it was targeting. But the fact that it made

633
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 18: orbit on its first attempt is definitely something in that

634
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 18: Blue Origins should celebrate.

635
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Laurin grush, thank you. Turning to defense tech, the

636
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: sector is also facing major investment as geopolitical and isolationist

637
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: risks rise. Here's what Anderill founder Palmer Lucky told us

638
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: yesterday about a potential conflict with China when he announced

639
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 3: a new plant in Ohio.

640
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 17: The types of threats, the threats of the United States

641
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 17: is facing that our allies around the world are facing.

642
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 17: The fact that we are predicted to run out of

643
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 17: munitions within the first eight days of a potential conflict

644
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 17: with China mean that we need to hyper scale our

645
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 17: manufacturing of these telo Io.

646
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 11: Was this the only state that could guarantee that timeline?

647
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 17: I think that they were the state they gave us

648
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 17: the best shot.

649
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: Of hitting that timeline.

650
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: For more on the defense tech sector and some of

651
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 3: the top names to watch this year, Bloomberg's Lazette Chapman

652
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: joins us. Now, Lizette, you've done some really great reporting

653
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 3: here trying to find just a few of the key

654
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 3: names to watch. Maybe rattle off a few and then

655
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: tell us a little bit more about how big this

656
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: universe of defense tech companies is.

657
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 19: Absolutely well, it's just getting started. I mean, in the

658
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 19: you know, talking with Lauren, you know, she mentioned probably

659
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 19: the granddaddy of them all, SpaceX, you know, which has

660
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 19: proven you know that they you know, companies can and

661
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 19: will continue to secure you know, or can secure these contracts,

662
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 19: big contracts, and I mean it's market cap is you know,

663
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 19: twice that of Lockheed Martin. You know, Palenteer also has

664
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 19: a market cap now that that is bigger than Lockheed.

665
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: Martin and raytheon, you know.

666
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 19: And so what we have now is a bunch of

667
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 19: startups and we just you know, called it down to

668
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 19: ten on the list that focus on things that will

669
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 19: have an impact on war like things like Hermias, who

670
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 19: you know, which specializes in hypersonics, the ability to travel

671
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 19: five times the you know, the speed of sound.

672
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 13: You know.

673
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 19: We've got Epius, which specializes in you know, high powered

674
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 19: microwaves that can shoot drones out of the skies. Is

675
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 19: one hundred or more. You know. We've got other ones

676
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 19: on the list as well that are spanning a lot

677
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 19: of different areas that are you know, redefining warfare. What's

678
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 19: interesting about this list, so if you look at it,

679
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 19: all of these have been started within the past, say, six, seven,

680
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 19: eight years, So these companies are at the size now

681
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 19: that maybe a paleteer in a SpaceX were a decade ago.

682
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 19: So these are kind of the up and commerce and

683
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 19: certainly there's some other ones as well, but the timing

684
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 19: and route to maturity is.

685
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: Something to watch.

686
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 4: Andrewill now worth fourteen billion SCALEAI that isn't on this

687
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: particular graphic at the moment. All about AI the data

688
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 4: behind warfare here it's worth thirteen point eight billion.

689
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 2: What's interesting is the.

690
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 4: Diversification where these companies are being built the zet Can

691
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 4: you tell about where there is a home for defense

692
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 4: tech or is it really sprawling?

693
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 19: You nailed it right there, Caroline, is that it is

694
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 19: very much sprawling.

695
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 8: You know.

696
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 19: We in with ed conversation with Palmer yesterday asked, you know,

697
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 19: why not build Anderill, you know, in California, And you know,

698
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 19: was that ever on the list? And Palmer said there

699
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 19: was a zero percent chance, and he, you know, rattled

700
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 19: off a bunch of reasons why they're not the only

701
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 19: ones that are are are looking at the high cost

702
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 19: of living, the high cost of energy, some regulatory issues,

703
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 19: et cetera.

704
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: That are driving other.

705
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 19: Companies to operate and in other areas including like hermias

706
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 19: is in Atlanta, for example. You know you've got Rebuild,

707
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 19: you know, in Massachusetts. So they are diverse. There are

708
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 19: new hubs developing. Firefly courses in Colorado. I see that

709
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 19: they're on the screen, so it is diverse, and they

710
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 19: are looking to create a number of new tech hubs

711
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 19: that are focused on defense.

712
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 4: An amazing tend to go get our cloths into and

713
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 4: there's cun team more out there. As you say that,

714
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 4: you continue to report on a zed Chapman on the

715
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 4: defense tech you need.

716
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: To know about.

717
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: Turning back to TikTok, one of the groups most impacted

718
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 4: by the bat and all potential bat is creators. For

719
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 4: more on this, we're joined by Courtney Spritzer, co founder

720
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: and CEO of Social Flights and marketing agency focused on

721
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 4: social media in particular. You're building and developing strategic partnerships

722
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 4: with certain influences. What's their reaction to a potential going

723
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 4: dark on Sunday.

724
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 16: Yes, there is a lot of anxiety around this. There

725
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 16: are tons of creators who really rely on tik talk

726
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 16: for partnerships with brands, for affiliate marketing, for selling their own.

727
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 6: Merchandise on TikTok shop.

728
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 16: So I think a lot of creators are on the

729
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 16: edge of their seat waiting to see what's going to

730
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 16: happen on Sunday, and they're also making a lot of

731
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 16: preparations for what they're going to do if there is

732
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 16: a band.

733
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been diversifying, pointing newses onto new forms of

734
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 4: social media or indeed older ones such as reels for example,

735
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 4: and Instagram. I'm interested though the advertisers, the marketers you

736
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 4: talk to, what do they do. They've spent money, they've

737
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: committed to be putting their brand on this particular platform.

738
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: If they can't access them, do they get money back?

739
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: What's their risk analysis?

740
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: Right now?

741
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 16: Yes, all marketers and advertisers are definitely planning for what

742
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 16: will happen after Sunday. So essentially what will happen is

743
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 16: they may shift those advertising dollars to other platforms. I

744
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 16: think a lot of people are taking a wait and

745
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 16: see approach. The news keeps changing day over day, so

746
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 16: we're really going to have to see what happens on Sunday.

747
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 16: But everything that we're talking to all of our clients,

748
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 16: we're all making preparations.

749
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 4: We're listen, hearing and seeing here how potentially Instagram based

750
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 4: spending boosted the most, Facebook does well YouTube. I'm interested

751
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 4: about some of these Chinese competitors. We're all now hearing

752
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: of Red Note is its colloquially known here in the

753
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 4: United States Lemonade, of course is also in by byteedance,

754
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: so an issue, but any advertisers any is looking at spending.

755
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 6: There, Yeah, it's possible.

756
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 16: I think as marketers, we're always looking to see all

757
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 16: of the channels that are available and where our audiences

758
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 16: are spending their time.

759
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 6: So we're definitely considering it.

760
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 16: But those platforms too will likely face the same challenges

761
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 16: that we're.

762
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 6: Fitting out with TikTok.

763
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 16: So I think everyone is being very cautious making their

764
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 16: backup plans, and we're having constant conversations with our clients

765
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 16: so that we're keeping them up to date, minute by

766
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 16: minute on what's going on.

767
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 4: Brands have seen TikTok in such a different light, the

768
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 4: way in which that you can become a trend overnight

769
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 4: without even really planning to or indeed starting to plan to,

770
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: and being strategic through companies such as your own, how

771
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: are they going to navigate the changing nature of trending

772
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 4: and ensuring their brands get to the right people at

773
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 4: the right time.

774
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 16: Yeah, So that is the nature of the business that

775
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 16: we're in. These social media platforms are constantly evolving, and

776
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 16: we always advise creators and influencers to not put all

777
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 16: of their eggs in one basket and to rely on

778
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 16: certain social media platforms for their incomes. So what a

779
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 16: lot of creators are doing outside of signing petitions to

780
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 16: make sure that TikTok stays intact is diversifying and going

781
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 16: to other social media networks. They're also building up their

782
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 16: own owned platforms, so that would be making their own websites,

783
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 16: building their email list so that they can reach their

784
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 16: followers outside of specific platforms, which is really really important

785
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 16: to always have a diversified approach, especially when it comes

786
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 16: to relying on platforms that you just don't own.

787
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: And is not the lesson here.

788
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 4: Look, we're always shifting, we're always moving, we're always finding

789
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 4: the nest, greatest thing.

790
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 16: Yes, that is what is the major lesson here is

791
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 16: that the reality is if you are building your business

792
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 16: or you're following on a specific platform that you do

793
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 16: not personally own, you're always going to have this risk.

794
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 6: We see this happen a lot.

795
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 16: Sometimes these platforms face outages and you don't have access

796
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 16: to post at certain specific times.

797
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 6: So it's always really important.

798
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 16: To own your audience and you can do that by

799
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 16: collecting emails, diversifying your channel base, and figuring out ways

800
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 16: to reach your customers and your audiences on other platforms.

801
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 4: Social Fly co founder and CEO Cony Sprits a busy

802
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 4: day for you. Thanks for joining us out of Miami.

803
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 4: Now that does it for this edition of bloom mag Technology.

804
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: You do not want to forget our podcast kind Of

805
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 4: on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify,

806
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 4: and iHeart. Stay tuned throughout the day for the latest

807
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 4: on TikTok. This is BLOEMG Technology