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Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I think it could be

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Speaker 1: a force for good in the future is that this

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Speaker 1: could provide this next dimension for us to grow in economically,

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Speaker 1: to growing but without you would hope consuming you know,

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Speaker 1: all the world's resources, without manufacturing more plastic, that ends

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Speaker 1: up you know, stuff down a sea, lion's throat or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I think in that way it is

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Speaker 1: it is a really fascinating concept. We can we can

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Speaker 1: grow into this other world and we can keep you know,

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Speaker 1: we can keep evolving. We can and more people are

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Speaker 1: able to have stuff, but without you know, hopefully the

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Speaker 1: sort of physical impact on our on the environment around us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the coin Bureau Podcast. I'm here with

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Speaker 1: my good friend mad Mooch. I'm doing the intros today

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Speaker 1: and my name is of course Guy. And in this episode, Mike,

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Speaker 1: you requested it. So we're going to done matter with you.

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Speaker 1: What is the meto with you? We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the metaverse. Yeah, because this is what you this

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Speaker 1: is what you asked for. At the end of the

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Speaker 1: last episode, I think we kind of we kind of

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Speaker 1: parlayed into it, sort of quite well. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about it on the the last episode and we were

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Speaker 1: touched on it and went right, well, why don't we

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Speaker 1: talk a bit more about that, because it's something that's

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Speaker 1: had a lot of buzz around it at sort of

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Speaker 1: the end of last year, carried on into this year,

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Speaker 1: and then obviously interesting crypto it is kind of dips

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Speaker 1: a little bit when when the market dips, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's something that is is coming back. I think

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Speaker 1: I think there's there's so many companies investing so much

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Speaker 1: money into it um and it's kind of a subject

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Speaker 1: that I would like to get a bit more of

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Speaker 1: an understanding of. Okay, well, yeah, you're absolutely right, because

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Speaker 1: it's one of the the word metaverse, I think is

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Speaker 1: something that probably you know, everyone has heard several times

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Speaker 1: by now, and yeah, I mean you summed it up

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Speaker 1: really well. It's it's kind of it's something that's gathering

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Speaker 1: steam and it's being talked about more and more, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: interest in it I think has waned recently. And this

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Speaker 1: is kind of because the metaverse isn't isn't purely a

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Speaker 1: crypto thing, but we are, obviously because we are a

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Speaker 1: crypto focused podcast. I am you know, we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk today about how, you know, where crypto and

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Speaker 1: the metaverse meet and you know why why they are,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, very well suited to each other. But

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Speaker 1: I think that's an important point to get off on,

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Speaker 1: is that the metaverse is kind of it's a lot

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Speaker 1: more than crypto, um, but it's certainly that the two

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Speaker 1: are getting mentioned kind of more and more in the

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Speaker 1: same in the same breath. And yeah, it's a concept

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Speaker 1: that's gathering a lot of a lot of steam. Um

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Speaker 1: also attracting a lot of cynicism, I think as well.

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Speaker 1: I keep seeing, you know, in in the media, you know,

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Speaker 1: both the cryptomedia, it has to be said, and the

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, the mainstream media, the normal media.

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Speaker 1: I keep seeing a lot of sort of very kind

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Speaker 1: of derogatory sort of references to the metaverse or you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of sarcastic, cynical kind of references. I mean, to me,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like showing my age a bit here.

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Speaker 1: But I think one of the problems is is which

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Speaker 1: one is going to be the one that is adopted.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like the beta max VHS, laser discs,

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Speaker 1: Mini discs, c D sort of wars that we've kind

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Speaker 1: of grown up and gone through with technologies that change,

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Speaker 1: and you know, with Beta max and VHS, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a race to who was going to be

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Speaker 1: the universally adopted one, I suppose, similar to you know

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Speaker 1: social media platforms as well. You know what was the

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Speaker 1: you know, we had high five, Bibo Friends are Reunited

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Speaker 1: it and then eventually we had my Space and then

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Speaker 1: that kind of came and went and came back again.

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Speaker 1: Facebook sort of is the is the behemoth that it

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Speaker 1: is today by a sort of Instagram and what's happened?

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Speaker 1: You know, then we've got Snapchat and uh, there's so

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Speaker 1: many yeah, and and and it's a really interesting process

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Speaker 1: to kind of go back to it. It's a bit

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Speaker 1: like the search engines thing or the or the earlier

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Speaker 1: popular websites. You know, you can really sort of you

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Speaker 1: can really show your age if you go, oh well

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Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just check it on out of easter,

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Speaker 1: I'll ask. Yeah, it's just being that it's um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's there's there's a lot at stake, I guess

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Speaker 1: with the metaverse, and um, this is something that the

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Speaker 1: big tech companies and everyone else I think is gradually

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Speaker 1: waking up to. But tech companies are kind of ahead

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Speaker 1: of the curve on this one. So it's wet one

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Speaker 1: point oh, just Google. Web two point oh is Facebook

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Web three point was meta verses or yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you can think of it. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: in very broad terms like that, but yeah, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and the Web three thing is a kind of rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole that goes very very deep, but I guess it's

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Speaker 1: good to sort of start with those terms. So Web

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Speaker 1: one you can generally think of as kind of read only,

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Speaker 1: so you can you can go and look at a

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Speaker 1: website and read and news article or read someone's blog

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Web two comes along and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: read right. So you know, the big thing with Web

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Speaker 1: two is that we the create the consumers. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: we're generating a lot of the content and that's what

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Speaker 1: you know, that's the kind of bandwagon that things like

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Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter and all these other platforms managed to

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Speaker 1: manage to jump on. Web three is in very broad terms,

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Speaker 1: kind of read write own, So we create that that

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Speaker 1: The thought is that we create the content and therefore

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Speaker 1: we should have we should own it, you know, because

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Speaker 1: at the moment we create the content, and then the

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Speaker 1: tech giants just so advertising and yeah, the technical basically

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Speaker 1: anything we put up we don't really own. It's very

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Speaker 1: difficult to monetize a lot of it. You know, the

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Speaker 1: tech giants have got all this power. Web three is

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Speaker 1: kind of aiming to distribute that, to decentralize I guess

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Speaker 1: in its purest form. But then again, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: just going back to the Codact reference. You know, companies

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Speaker 1: like Facebook or or as they has, they've been rebranding

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Speaker 1: metare trying to avoid being left behind and are investing

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Speaker 1: heavily in it changing the name of it or they

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Speaker 1: will change the name of it. May have also been

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Speaker 1: something to do with the data stuff that they're getting

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Speaker 1: soon rebranding, but so yeah, I'm assuming from my sort

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Speaker 1: of layman's knowledge that that's why that they're they're heavily

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Speaker 1: investing in trying to sort of monopolize or become the

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Speaker 1: first to market. Yeah, yeah, they they are. They are

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Speaker 1: seeing the way that the Internet is going, and obviously

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Speaker 1: they have access to a lot of information that you know,

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Speaker 1: the average that probably yeah, yeah, and we'll yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is all stuff that we're going to touch on.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Facebook, or as meta as

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Speaker 1: it's now known quite a lot, because you know, it

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Speaker 1: is a big mover in this regard. So we'll get

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Speaker 1: onto that. Let's some just before we kick off, I

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Speaker 1: want to just reference a couple of things. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: as I say, the metaver, the the idea of the

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Speaker 1: metaverse itself, it's been it's been talked about a lot recently.

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Speaker 1: It's now interested seems to have kind of waned a

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Speaker 1: little bit amongst the you know, the general populace if

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Speaker 1: you like, and certainly in crypto it's you know, enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: for the metaverse, which really peaked last year. And we'll

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Speaker 1: look at that in a few minutes. That's kind of

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Speaker 1: waned a little bit as well. And everything. I think

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Speaker 1: really everyone's minds are kind of elsewhere. But the most

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Speaker 1: how can I pay for things and survived from day

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Speaker 1: to day? You know, there's just so much else going

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Speaker 1: on in the world. But in the background, the metaverse

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Speaker 1: is gaining traction. And one thing that you might notice

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Speaker 1: in the coming weeks, I mean the Time magazine. The

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Speaker 1: latest issue of Time Magazine has a metaverse themed cover

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Speaker 1: um and the story is into the The article is

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Speaker 1: into the metaverse, the next digital era will change everything, um.

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Speaker 1: And it's by a chap called Matthew Ball who's written

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Speaker 1: a longer who's written an actual book on it that

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Speaker 1: called the Metaverse and how it will revolutionize everything. So

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Speaker 1: these are both the article itself and the book are

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Speaker 1: both really really interesting. I'm going to cite them a

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Speaker 1: few times. Doing the article. I'm also going to cite

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Speaker 1: an article by a chap called Arthur Hayes, who is

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Speaker 1: one of the best kind of writers on crypto out there.

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Speaker 1: I may have spoken a little bit about him before

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Speaker 1: he wrote an article which is on this medium page.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave links to all these in the show notes obviously. Um.

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Speaker 1: He wrote an article called Rock, Paper Scissors, says Go

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Speaker 1: and it's talks about the metaverse. It talks about n

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Speaker 1: f T S and art and all this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And for me when I first read it, I think

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Speaker 1: it was published last year, if I remember rightly, when

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Speaker 1: I first read it, it was a real light bulb

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Speaker 1: moment for me because he explains it so well. He's

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Speaker 1: a brilliant writer, very very funny. I'm going to quote

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Speaker 1: him a couple of times. And that article I really

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Speaker 1: highly recommend that everyone goes and reads that afterwards, because

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people the penny may

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Speaker 1: drop with a lot of what we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about today, if it hasn't already by the time we've

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Speaker 1: talked about was going to say, if you want to

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Speaker 1: know more about the matter verse, read this book. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't listen to this podcast, just read this book or article. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Well, I'm going to reference those, maybe quote

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Speaker 1: from those a few times. So let's start off with

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Speaker 1: a kind of definition. Let's where did this term metaverse

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Speaker 1: come from? What is it? All this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So the term metaverse actually comes from a novel called

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Speaker 1: Snow Crash by a science fiction writer called Neil Stevenson.

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Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this is it was published

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Speaker 1: in the term metaverse. The concept of a meta versus

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Speaker 1: perhaps older than a lot of people might think. And

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Speaker 1: this book, snow Crash is great. I again, I thoroughly

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Speaker 1: recommend reading it. It's kind of set in a future

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Speaker 1: future corporate dystopia. Corporations and businesses have kind of replaced

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Speaker 1: governments and it's dystopia. Yeah, And the metaverse of the novel,

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Speaker 1: it takes the form of this street that runs for

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Speaker 1: thousands of miles around the circumference of this planet UM,

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Speaker 1: and you can access it through virtual reality goggles, and

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Speaker 1: when you're in it, you know, you see it through

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Speaker 1: a sort of first person perspective UM, and you and

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Speaker 1: the users of it appear as avatars basically in this

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Speaker 1: very corporate controlled, you know, otherworldly environment UM. And that

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Speaker 1: also brings to mind the other kind of cultural touchstone

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Speaker 1: that more people may be familiar with that kind of

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Speaker 1: relates to meta verses, and that's the Steven Spielberg film

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Speaker 1: Ready Player one. You've seen that it again, very very

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Speaker 1: very that instead of listening to this, well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: listened to it to compliment that's from eighteen and again

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Speaker 1: that is sort of set in a sort of future

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Speaker 1: dystopian future where citizens spend much of their time inside

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Speaker 1: this VR simulation. People have been kind of been exploring

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Speaker 1: this theme for a while, this idea of this kind

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Speaker 1: of digital world that exists alongside our own, and actually

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean I wonder whether it's even something

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Speaker 1: like the Matrix is kind of exploring that in a

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Speaker 1: little sense, you know, this other, this other realm that

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Speaker 1: exists that you kind of go to And I mean,

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Speaker 1: you think of the people in the mate when they're

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Speaker 1: plugged into the matrix, aren't they They They sort of sitting

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Speaker 1: there in those chairs with that headphone jack in the

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Speaker 1: back of their head. And I was thinking about that

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Speaker 1: on the way over here today and I was like,

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Speaker 1: if that could that be seen as a metaphor for

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Speaker 1: people being online, you know, just kind of slumped in

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Speaker 1: a chair their battery energy. I suppose. Yeah. So what's interesting,

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Speaker 1: I think is that these kind of metaverse ideas they

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Speaker 1: offer often are very kind of dystopian. You know, they

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Speaker 1: appear as as as part of a a future that

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Speaker 1: you know, no sane person would really want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of. And I think this this ties into

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Speaker 1: a lot of public perception about the metaverse and what

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Speaker 1: the metaverse could be. And I mean, I think that's

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Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point to make. A lot

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Speaker 1: of what we're going to discuss today is you know,

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Speaker 1: how it can the metaverse be a good thing? Or

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Speaker 1: is it? Is it? This? Is it this thing that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people imagine it to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: something that we really know, right thinking person would want.

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Speaker 1: As I said earlier, the metaverse is this kind of

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Speaker 1: digital world. It exists alongside our own as Some people

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Speaker 1: have described it as the Internet in three D, and

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Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, we all know who he is, he has

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Speaker 1: described it as the successor to the Internet, the next

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Speaker 1: iteration of the Internet, basically a kind of fusion of

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Speaker 1: our physical and our online lives. And I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the very the thought is that it will

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Speaker 1: be accessed using VA you know these VR headsets. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Facebook Metal whatever it's called now is kind of working

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Speaker 1: on this technology. I've got one of them. Yeah, you've yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got SEU yeah. Um. And I think there could

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Speaker 1: be elements of both virtual reality and augmented reality as well.

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Speaker 1: This idea that you know, you're you're not necessarily in

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Speaker 1: a virtual setting, in a completely virtual setting, but these

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Speaker 1: virtual objects can appear. That's you know, that's what I

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Speaker 1: understand by kind of augmented reality. And a big thing

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Speaker 1: is this idea of of of an avatar, users navigating

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Speaker 1: through the metaverse, appearing in the metaverse, being represented by

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Speaker 1: this avatar, a virtual representation of them themselves. And obviously

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Speaker 1: that is what form that takes is kind of infinitely customizable,

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Speaker 1: which I think is again something that people are quite

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Speaker 1: sort of excited about for for various reasons. And interesting,

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Speaker 1: the word avatar is ultimately derived from the Sanskrit word avatara,

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Speaker 1: which it kind of stands for the descent of a

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Speaker 1: deity into a terrestrial form. And if that sounds very clever,

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Speaker 1: that's because it's from Wikipedia. Um So, this metaverse, this,

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Speaker 1: this this digital world that's kind of existing, this Internet

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Speaker 1: in three D is now starting to take shape in

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Speaker 1: our world and it's kind of opening up as as

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Speaker 1: a front as a new frontier for sort of leisure, business, gaming,

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Speaker 1: you know, just just kind of general existence really, and

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Speaker 1: the scope of it is truly huge and socializing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean this one once you kind of once you

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Speaker 1: kind of get into thinking about what what you could do,

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Speaker 1: what you could achieve in this in this world, it

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Speaker 1: gets a pretty dizzying prospect. And this is why many

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Speaker 1: in tech and indeed beyond see it as the next

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Speaker 1: big thing. Now, I'll give you some figures here just

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Speaker 1: to give you an idea of how much you know,

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Speaker 1: of what people of the potential that people see in

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Speaker 1: the metaverse. Um, I saw one prediction, you know, the

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Speaker 1: metaverse could be worth around eight hundred billion dollars by four,

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Speaker 1: which is the year after next. That's you know, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty crazy. Then there was a recent report by City

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Speaker 1: and KPMG predicted the metaverse economy could be worth thirteen

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Speaker 1: trillion dollars by which is you know, I mean that's serious,

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Speaker 1: serious money. Um. And you've got you know, you've got analysts,

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Speaker 1: you've got brands, artists, you know, got Wall Street banks,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of exploring this idea, this idea of

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Speaker 1: kind of virtual real estate. You know, this this this

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Speaker 1: new frontier opening up and you know, metaverse land, this

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Speaker 1: digital land that we'll talk about more in more detail

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Speaker 1: later on. This is perceived a kind of Internet space.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this is all tied in with the

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Speaker 1: fact that we humans are spending an increasing amount of

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Speaker 1: time online and you know, whether we like it or not.

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Speaker 1: And you just need to look at you just need

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Speaker 1: to look at kids to see how how far, how

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Speaker 1: how much they're getting sucked in, because I I mean,

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Speaker 1: you may not see this with your with your little one,

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Speaker 1: because he's still a baby, isn't he. Ben. I mean

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Speaker 1: I noticed this with some friends of mine, children with

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Speaker 1: my nieces and stuff like that. You know, they you

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Speaker 1: give him a you give him an iPad or a

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Speaker 1: smartphone to please God, keep them quiet for five minutes,

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Speaker 1: and they just disappearance. It's it's it's really bad. But

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Speaker 1: the kid, my child always goes for my phone and

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Speaker 1: the remote control, which is kind of indictive about what

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Speaker 1: he sees me doing and wants to do. He's copying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's what children do, isn't it. They imitate,

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Speaker 1: They imitate. It's it's bad. And and like sometimes when

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Speaker 1: he's a little bit restless, there's this one YouTube video

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Speaker 1: that he just loves and it's just some dancing vegetable.

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Speaker 1: This is a baby sensory thing. Yeah, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: you know, scary, it's scary. Yeah, and you see them,

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Speaker 1: you know, you see them. I'm not going to change.

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Speaker 1: It's too late for that six month I've got. I've

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Speaker 1: got I've got a friend who who doesn't. He's not

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Speaker 1: on his phone around his kids, and it's very and

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Speaker 1: he's just a lot more disciplined. I suppose it's it's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's so difficult to avoid because it's all

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Speaker 1: around us. And yeah, as you say, you know, children

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Speaker 1: imitate what they see adults doing. That's how they that's

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Speaker 1: how they learn. And I mean, for me, the scary

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Speaker 1: thing is when you watch, when you watch a kid

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Speaker 1: playing with an iPad and stuff, it just comes They've

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Speaker 1: already got this whole swiping thing and it just looks

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Speaker 1: so natural to them. Yeah, and I mean there are

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Speaker 1: attention spans are just terribly you know, my one of

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Speaker 1: my nieces just you'll see it. You'll watch a video

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Speaker 1: three seconds and skip onto the next one, three second,

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Speaker 1: next one. It's just watch the stupid video I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you about Crypto Concy. Ever, come on, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to know about Solano. Look, I told you it's really

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Speaker 1: really important you understand the difference between proof of work

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Speaker 1: and proof of steak. There's a lot of steak here

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Speaker 1: pun intending anyway. Yes, So back to the metaverse. So

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Speaker 1: the metaverse, it's not yet an actual thing, but isn't

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Speaker 1: it Well, I know, I would say, I would say

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Speaker 1: there are various kind of iterations of it. It's starting

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Speaker 1: to develop. We're starting to see metaverse worlds created. But

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Speaker 1: I think this idea of a metaverse that we can

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Speaker 1: sort of jump in and out of very very easily

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Speaker 1: all the time, there's just kind of all around us.

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Speaker 1: That really is kind of augment another another dimension that

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Speaker 1: we exist in. We're away, we're away off that yet,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are still there are these metaverse wells

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Speaker 1: that you can go into, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about a few of them later on, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: you know a couple of notable ones in the crypto space.

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Speaker 1: But of course we've also got these corporate metaverse welds

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Speaker 1: being worked on now, I say corporate. Just some examples

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Speaker 1: of brands, brands that have gotten involved in the metaverse

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Speaker 1: to some in these metaverse worlds to some extent, added

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Speaker 1: asked Louis Vuitton, Nike, McDonald, Samsung, Netflix. You've got football

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Speaker 1: clubs exploring metaverse opportunities, fashion brands, banks, all these sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, you know, are all looking into what the

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Speaker 1: metaverse can do for them, how they can you know,

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Speaker 1: how they can profit from the metaverse in some way.

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Speaker 1: And you've got things that I mean, Nike has a

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Speaker 1: Nike has a virtual store in the Roadblocks metaverse. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard of rodbox game that kids are into? Um?

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Speaker 1: And you know, the Roadblocks metaverse is kind of here.

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Speaker 1: It's got about ten million user um and you know

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Speaker 1: they're interacting with this platform. They are building stuff in

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Speaker 1: it's you know, there's this community around them. They're socializing,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're spending time in it. My niece was

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Speaker 1: showing me her restaurant and the menus that she had.

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Speaker 1: Terrible menu, really really big. She's not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to keep up the standard on that many items. Actually

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Speaker 1: not watched the Gordon Ramsey Kitchen Nightmare. Too many Vegan

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Speaker 1: Choices is everything but just a mess. They've got They've

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Speaker 1: got no idea. They've got no idea now the and

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Speaker 1: money is being spent on the metaverse already around from

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Speaker 1: January to May this year. This is something. This is

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Speaker 1: something I saw in this Time magazine article. Around a

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty billion dollars of investment was pumped into

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Speaker 1: metaverse projects. So there is serious money going into it,

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Speaker 1: and I think, I think a really good way to

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Speaker 1: think about it, and something that I think the metaverse

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Speaker 1: could be good for in a way it could be

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Speaker 1: a good thing is to think about the think of

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Speaker 1: this idea of economic growth. This is what capitalism is

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Speaker 1: kind of built on, this idea of constant growth, and

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Speaker 1: this is something that's top of mind for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people at the moment, because everyone's talking about a recession,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously negative growth, the economies shrinking, getting smaller,

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Speaker 1: and obviously that has big consequences. So our economic model

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Speaker 1: in most of the world is built on constant growth. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the planet is only so big. You know that what

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Speaker 1: that growth translates into, what economic growth translates into, is

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Speaker 1: more stuff. It's more plastic in the oceans, it's more

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Speaker 1: c O two in the atmosphere, it's more crap. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's more consumption. And that is that is unsustainable.

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Speaker 1: And you know we've seen, you know, we're living now

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Speaker 1: with the effects of what decades of that have have

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Speaker 1: had on the planet. And you know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you can just dismiss that as an environmentalist argument is

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Speaker 1: a h you know here, if we keep growing, then

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Speaker 1: we will eventually reach you know, like breaking point now

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Speaker 1: the metaverturation point, saturation point. Yeah, now the metaverse. You

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Speaker 1: can I think look at as and and one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why I think it could be a force

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Speaker 1: for good in the future is that this could provide

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Speaker 1: this next dimension for us to grow in economically to growing,

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Speaker 1: but without you would hope consuming you know, all the

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Speaker 1: world's resources without manufacturing more plastic that ends up you know,

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Speaker 1: stuff down the sea, lion's throat or whatever. You know.

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Speaker 1: So I think in that way it is it is

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Speaker 1: a really fascinating concept. We can we can grow into

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Speaker 1: this other world and we can keep you know, we

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Speaker 1: can keep evolving. We can and more people are able

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Speaker 1: to have stuff, but without hopefully the sort of physical

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Speaker 1: impact on our on the environment around us. So and

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this idea of of an on

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Speaker 1: line economy is already you know, it's massive. You know,

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Speaker 1: people spend billions trillions of dollars a year online and

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Speaker 1: the online economy is growing everywhere. So that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a way to think about you know, the

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Speaker 1: metaverse as as as a place. Yeah, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: I see that as a as a as a potential

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Speaker 1: benefit because we're probably not going to stop the sort

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Speaker 1: of constant consumption, the constantly for growth, although there is

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Speaker 1: arguments of saying that, you know, it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: do we need to just be creating more and doing

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Speaker 1: more and that's kind of negative recycling and you know,

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Speaker 1: using more. Yeah, this idea of this idea of the

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Speaker 1: circular economy, this idea of sustainability, all this sort of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, it's one of the it's

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Speaker 1: one of the crazy aspects of humanity, isn't it. We

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Speaker 1: we know that we've got in the system that we

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Speaker 1: can't force to carry on with. Yeah. Yeah, we're we're

427
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: locked into this. We're locked into this idea of constant growth,

428
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: and there are people pushing back against this, and but

429
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: it's very very difficult. I mean, how is a politician

430
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: going to get elected on a platform of like I'm

431
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: going to shrink the economy. You know, let's just scrap everything. Yeah,

432
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, if I'm president, you won't have

433
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: so much stuff. And you know, see how many people

434
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: vote from then vote for them. Then you know, it's

435
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, but it's very difficult to see a

436
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: way that we can that we can have it both ways,

437
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: that we can keep growing. But also you know, yeah,

438
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: that's an interesting sustainable also not exhaust the planet. And

439
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: the metaverse I think gives gives a possible answer to

440
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: that question. Now, yeah, you asked earlier, I mean, does

441
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: does the metaverse exist? Is there? You know it is

442
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: it already up and running and it's kind of starting

443
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: to form. But there are but yes, because there's the Roadblocks,

444
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: which is a form of a metaverse. There is I

445
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: remember on the Oculus there was it's just kind of

446
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: like a you just walk around, you talk to people,

447
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: you can play little games, you can build a little house,

448
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 1: you can do all of that sort of stuff. Um.

449
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: And that was a version of the metaverse. And I

450
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: was talking to people. This was during the lockdown in Texas. Yeah,

451
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: these housewives in Texas, you know, all these people from

452
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: all around the world. You're just going around there. There's

453
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: virtual comedy clubs. There was all sorts of stuff going

454
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: on this virtual space. And this was in Roadblocks, was it. No,

455
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: this was a crime border is called. But it was

456
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: one of the Oculus ones, you know. Okay, okay, yeah,

457
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's starting to it's starting to form. And

458
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: there are these metaverse worlds that they're you know, they're

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: kind of all separate from each other more or less.

460
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, the idea is people are getting

461
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: comfortable with the idea, or people are getting more familiar

462
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: with the idea UM. And I mean I think you

463
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: could say, you know this This isn't something new, This

464
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: idea of walking around as a first metaverse job. Their

465
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: job is to wake up, go and do stuff in

466
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 1: the metaverse. I mean there are there is lots of

467
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: stuff happening in the metaverse. We're going to talk about that.

468
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: I in in a minister or so I'm not yeah,

469
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean there must be people, Yeah, who's who at

470
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: least part of their job is metaverse based, and that

471
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: is going to I mean again, this is this is

472
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: an opportunity for growth because this you know, this is

473
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: not just an opportunity for people to buy and sell,

474
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: but also for employment as well. So yeah, we'll come

475
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: to that. But as I was going to say, I

476
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,479
Speaker 1: think this idea of walking around as an avatar in

477
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: a digital world that isn't the real world has kind

478
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: of exists. You know, we're sort of familiar with that.

479
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have played Grand Theft Auto, there's

480
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: kind of elements of metaverse in that isn't it's like

481
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: your Farmville. I mean, you've got your own farm, you're

482
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: building it, you're doing stuff, there's other people involved. It's

483
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, yeah, it's it's a concept that's it's starting,

484
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: it's starting to grow. But obviously, you know, and you've

485
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: also got online virtual worlds like Second Life, which is

486
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: still like I mean, I remember, I remember everyone getting

487
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: very excited about that a few years ago, and then

488
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: it seemed to have sort of fizzled out. Yeah, it sims.

489
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: Second Life is still going. It's got hundreds of millions

490
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: that it's growing like it's um, it's still a thing.

491
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: A lot of people still use. It just doesn't seem

492
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: to be attracting their headlines anymore. But and then you've

493
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: got virtual world games. You've got the likes of Fortnight

494
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: and Minecraft, which obviously massive that you know, you use

495
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: avatars in those, and crucially for the purposes of of

496
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about later, you also have

497
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: these these in game currencies, you know, which you can

498
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: spend and buy stuff in this in this particular, in

499
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: this particular world. They're not cryptocurrencies though, and that's that's

500
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: an important thing to understand. But and yeah, you know,

501
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: and and talking of crypto, this seemed that cryptocurrency has

502
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: opened up the kind of latest frontier in in what

503
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 1: the metaverse is is looking to evolve into. This idea

504
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: of metaverse platforms like the Central Land and The Sandbox.

505
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: These are two ones I'm going to mention the time

506
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: and time again they're the biggest kind of crypto blockchain

507
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: focused ones. And you've also got kind of blockchain games

508
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: as well, which you know, like Axe Infinity, Illuvium, Star Atlas,

509
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: things like that, Big Time Studios, you know, all these

510
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: these ideas that you know are slowly starting to evolve

511
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: and make use of blockchain technology and also cryptocurrency as well.

512
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: And you have things, I mean the Sandbox for instance,

513
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: it started life as a as a mobile game and

514
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: it then pivoted to blockchain in eighteen. It was brought

515
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: by a company called Animoka Brands, which is a big

516
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, a big kind of developer in this in

517
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: this space, and it's now sort of switch to becoming

518
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: this this metaverse platform. And I guess the big innovation

519
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: here is the use of cryptocurrencies and n f t

520
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 1: s in particular for in game assets. And we're going

521
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: to talk we're going to talk later on about how

522
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: this makes these kind of metaverse worlds different from the

523
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: sort of corporate ones that you know, the likes of

524
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: Meta and stuff are imagining. So sort of part that

525
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: for the moment but yeah, the idea is, you know,

526
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: you're able to own these digital assets with value, but

527
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: beyond the confines of the platform, you know, you have

528
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: you have control over them. Um, because the game platforms,

529
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Minecrafts, the Fortnights of this World, and

530
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, they function as kind of

531
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: walled gardens. Yeah, I was thinking about this, and I've

532
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: seen some issues with this with the Oculus stuff. Now.

533
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: People were I was playing a game I can't remember

534
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: what it was called, um kind of basically a Fortnite

535
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: version on Oculus, and there was a bit of a

536
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, a forum there and we were on there's

537
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: a Facebook forum with it was sort of people still

538
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: talking about it, and someone lost their Facebook account, right,

539
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: or something went wrong with it and they got hacked

540
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: or it got deleted or they've done something wrong on

541
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Facebook and they lost there all the game. They couldn't

542
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: access the game, but basically bricked the the the unit

543
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: and they've spent a lot of money on a game,

544
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: and they were piste off about that. But I suppose

545
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: that is that's the thing where it's a walled garden.

546
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: It's like all there, whereas this is if it's with

547
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: the crypto. If it's it's if it's an n f

548
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: T and it's on on a blockchain, then it's it's decentralized.

549
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: So it's not it's not at the at the whim

550
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: of Mark Zuckerberg or exactly. Yeah. Yeah, And this is

551
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and and this is a big thing. You know that

552
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: this idea of a central a centralized metaverse, this is

553
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: owned and controlled and built and regulated all this sort

554
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: of stuff by a particular company. You know. This is

555
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: this is I think the big challenge that we that

556
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: we face with the metaverse coming coming in the future.

557
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: Because you know, well, well we'll get to it in

558
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: a minute. I wanted to you know, in these in

559
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: these decentralized metaverses, in the likes of decentral Land and

560
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: the Sandbox. You know, you have this virtual land which

561
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: you can buy up as you know n f T

562
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: as it comes as n f T s. You can

563
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: then develop it and and use it, you can monetize it.

564
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: And this is this is a big this is a

565
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, a big innovation as far as as far

566
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: as meta verses go. You know, because you can you know,

567
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: you can do anything. You can exhibit digital art, you

568
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: can host virtual events. I mean Snoop Dogg's he's hosted,

569
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: He's done gigs in the metaverse. Before I made a

570
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: note here Steve Aoki, someone said, oh Steve Aoki, So

571
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: I don't know who he is. He's a DJ. He

572
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: throws cake. He throws cake. It's one of his He's

573
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: a E D M sort of DJ. And he has

574
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: a little gimmick where he just throws a cake at someone. Okay, well,

575
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: good luck doing that in the metaverse. Steve virtual cake

576
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: me virtual, just throwing so cake as a crake, cake

577
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: crumbs as n f T s. You heard it here first,

578
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean this, this, this space, this this

579
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: metaverse land can be used advertising, branding sort of just

580
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: general exposure and stuff. And it's I don't think it's

581
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: a big imaginative leap to to to understand why brands

582
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: why you know, so many companies are getting excited about it.

583
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: And um, I mean we've had we've seen real world

584
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: stuff kind of happening in these metaverses. So the first

585
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: metaverse mortgage was reported this earlier this year. The first

586
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: metaverse wedding was reported in February this year. In fact,

587
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: I've got a quote from a coin Telegraph article here

588
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: about it. This was seventh February two. A Phoenix couple

589
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: tied the knot with their digital identities this weekend in

590
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: the first marriage to take place in the metaverse. The

591
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: wedding ceremony took place in the Central Land, complete with witnesses,

592
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice Efficient Clint Bollock, and a virtual crowd

593
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: of two thousand guests on Saturday. It's gonna be expensed

594
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: at two thousand weddings. Well not in the metaverse apparently,

595
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: though it didn't quite go to plan like ready did

596
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: They're not consummate virtually on let me let me find

597
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: the article because it's actually quite funny. They were, although

598
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: the couple see this is another quote, they were met

599
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: with some rather archaic technical issues the Central and struggle

600
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: to handle the number of guests in attendance. Um Ryan's

601
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: avatar was left at the aisle as Candice has failed

602
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: to make a digital appearance, but only for some guests,

603
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: depending on which server attendees had been split into. The

604
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: bride was wearing a dress, a hoodie or wasn't there

605
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: at all? Um, Yes, so it was, yeah, it was

606
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: a little bit. It was a little bit rough and

607
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: ready by the sound of it. And also I want

608
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: to end this section before we go off for a

609
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: quick ad break. What what what to me? Is one

610
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: of the most interesting things I found in researching the

611
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: metaverse is that the idea as we said has been

612
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: around for quite some time. And obviously you know that

613
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: the word as we saw first came, you know, was

614
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: first used, first recorded uses in this book snow crash Now.

615
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: Matthew ball in this Time magazine article makes a really

616
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: makes a really good point. He says transformations quote don't

617
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: experience switch flips. So we're in the mobile era today,

618
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: but the first cellian cellian network call was in three

619
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: the first wireless data network was smartphone in So it's

620
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: this idea of you know, the concept is nothing new

621
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: and the technology is being tested. We're just not at

622
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: that stage adoption, universal adoption yet where everyone is ready

623
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: to pick it up. I suppose it comes when is

624
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: it just a breakthrough in technology sort of making it

625
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: more affordable for for mass adoption, you know, like an

626
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: oculus or just the convenience of it, like an oculus

627
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: headset only where it for a few hours before ball

628
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: ache s where to hot? But they're going to get

629
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: the technology is going to get better, and it's going

630
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: to get smaller. You're going to be able to just

631
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: have it on a pair of sunglasses. I don't know.

632
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: But it was interesting, wasn't it, because we there was

633
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: that the experiment with Google Glass wasn't that a few

634
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: years ago and it seemed to sort of fall very flat.

635
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: But this idea that you know, you could be you

636
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: could be online at the same time as going about

637
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: your daily life and Facebook and ray Ban has to

638
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: have combined to make some glasses that have cameras in

639
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: them that it's connected to your Facebook account and all

640
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: that sort was right, and they just look like normal glasses.

641
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: But I mean, I would look at this because I

642
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this could be quite cool to record

643
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: some stand up from my point of view. You know,

644
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: you could splice that in. But it's only it's only

645
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: I think that because it's kind of launched after the

646
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: Facebook Cambridge Analytica thing, and I think they were just like, okay, cool,

647
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: maybe we don't record everyone everywhere unaware, um and I

648
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: think it's thirty seconds is the max you're record. And

649
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: it's attempting to imagine ray people at Raban reading those

650
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: articles and going, I think we need to rethink this.

651
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: On that note, shall we take a quick break and

652
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: we'll be back in just a moment. Welcome back back.

653
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: So I want to ask the question why is the

654
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: metaverse a thing now? Because I think that might be

655
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: something that listeners are wondering themselves. It's like, why am

656
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: I suddenly hearing metaverse all the time? Not just because

657
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: they're listening to this episode, but why are they Why

658
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: do they keep seeing mentions of the metaverse? Well, yeah,

659
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: I think it is a big part. I mean the

660
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 1: hype around the metaverse kind of really kicked into gear

661
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: last year in October. In October one when Facebook announced

662
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: that it was rebranding to Meta and I mean this

663
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: just sent the whole thing into into drive. And you

664
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: remember there was that just ghastly presentation with Mark Zuckerber

665
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: where his where you know, he was showing off his

666
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: avatar and his avatar actually looked more lifelike than he

667
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: just just okay, So we've got meta and other tech

668
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: companies like Microsoft, you know, they're waking up to the

669
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: value proposition of the metaverse that we were talking about earlier.

670
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: And I mean Microsoft acquired Activism Activision Blizzard, the game developer,

671
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: for seventy billion dollars recently, and that apparently was very

672
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: much with an eye to metaverse development, and that ties

673
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: into what I was saying about all this money being

674
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: pumped into metaverse projects. You know, Meta is pouring money

675
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: into it as into the metaverse, as well as other

676
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: tech companies, and I guess, you know, basically, they see

677
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: it as a way for them to expand the boundaries

678
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: of their current business models to you know, to get

679
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: ahead of the ahead of the pack and be be

680
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: there for the next iteration of the Internet, you know,

681
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: for this three D Internet, because they want us to

682
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: spend more time on line using whatever services they offer,

683
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: and you know, which will make them an incalculable amounts

684
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: of I mean, it's already made them stupid money. But

685
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: I think that they want to maintain and grow. Yeah. Yeah,

686
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: And again, I think it's really important at this point

687
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: to draw the line between the corporate metaverse concept and

688
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: then these blockchain based decentralized equivalents because let's face it,

689
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: Metas Metaverse for instance, will be under Metas control. It

690
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: will ultimately just be another way for Meta Facebook, whatever

691
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: you want to call it to do what what it

692
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: already does, which is harvest your data and sell it

693
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: to advertisers. Like that is that is what Facebook's metaverse

694
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: will be about. It won't be about, you know, this

695
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: awful jargon that Zuckerberg uses, you know, connecting people, sharing,

696
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: bringing people together. You know, it'll astensibly be about that.

697
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: What it really be is about, you know, more ways

698
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: to capture data and flog you stuff you don't need.

699
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: And it's doubtful whether you know, any of these corporate

700
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: metaversees would want to offer much interaction with the other

701
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: ones because you know, they want to keep that value

702
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: for themselves. They want to lock it in again, this

703
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: idea of a walled garden. You know, I can't imagine

704
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: that meta would be all that comfortable with the idea

705
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: of someone interacting, you know, maybe you know, having a

706
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: business in its metaverse and then taking some of that capital.

707
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 1: And Microsoft Beta Max won't work a Beta Max videos,

708
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: it won't work on a VHS. Yeah. Yeah, it's like

709
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: you can't you know, you can't there there isn't a

710
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: universal charger for iPhones and Android fans. It's like it

711
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: has to be different because God forbid, you know, gover bid.

712
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: There should be any sort of yeah yeah so and

713
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: I mean again, you can see the attraction for a

714
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: company like Meta to do this. You know, it's got

715
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 1: the user base, it's got it's developing the tech, and

716
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: its business model is dependent on user attention. The metaverse,

717
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: the idea of a meta verse, is a great way

718
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: to capture value and and I think the big danger

719
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: here is is network effects. You know, a platform like

720
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: Meta will have has the money and resources to construct

721
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: a metaverse, which looks really cool, which can you know,

722
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: you can do loads of stuff a bit like the

723
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: original Facebook platform was, and everyone just goes to that,

724
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: and then network effects means that you know, everyone just

725
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: kind of stays there. It's like, well, this is what

726
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: we know, you know, this is what we're happy with.

727
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: And they've and they've captured it. And I mean again,

728
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: you can see the value proposition, can't you If you

729
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: can become if you're building a place that becomes a

730
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: place of commerce, you know, if you own the land,

731
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: say on which that commerce is happening, you know you

732
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: can be rent seeking in that way. And in the metaverse,

733
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: you can see how that would work. You know, if

734
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: if people are doing business there, it's like, well, I

735
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: own the land, I own the metaverse, so I'll just

736
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: take a percentage cut of every transaction. And I mean

737
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: you can see how that instantly trans lates. And I

738
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: mean that's just a license to print money. So there's

739
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: this huge potential value proposition for those who are able

740
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: to develop it. And I should say, on a more

741
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: kind of scary note, I mean, this idea of corporate

742
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,479
Speaker 1: metaverse is doesn't to me sound all that all that nice.

743
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: What's more scary? Yeah, And China, it states like China

744
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: are also looking at developing metaverse technologies, and I mean

745
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: you can see the attraction for that. You know, if

746
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: everyone's existing in in a in a metaverse that's been

747
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: built and is run by the Chinese Communist Party, and

748
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: it can see everything you're doing and everything you're spending.

749
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's basically what they want, isn't it.

750
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: That's that's that's there, that's their ideal society. So you know,

751
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: the governments are waking up to it too. Here's Arthur

752
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: Hayes from this brilliant article that I was talking about. Quote,

753
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: China is fashioning a mobile first online society, All data

754
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: and interactions are networked, monitored, and policed by the state.

755
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: The Chinese metaverse is complete with social credit scores that

756
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: encompassed the entirety of your on and offline lives. Given

757
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: the amount of R and D spending on AI and

758
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: five G, Beijing believes the future is a digital first

759
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: connected population. Scary. Yeah, So, having looked at that, having

760
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: looked at this kind of nightmarish scenario of corporate and

761
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: government meta verses, let's look at the metaverse and crypto.

762
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: Because when Facebook made this announcement when it changed to

763
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: Facebook has tried to launch a cryptocurrency before. It tried

764
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: to launch something called Libra back in and it then

765
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: rebranded it to d M and last year or the

766
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: year before, and that project now died. Fortunately, when Facebook

767
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: launched Libra or announced Libre in regulators in the US,

768
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: it was a it was a big moment because they went,

769
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: hang on a sect something this big. Yeah, it's like,

770
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: we're you know, the idea of bitcoin is uncomfortable enough

771
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: for us, but a cryptocurrency issued by this massive company,

772
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: overseen by you know, and yeah, it was it was

773
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: a big moment. And basically Facebook really sort of spoiled,

774
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: spoilt it for everyone else in a way. Um. But yeah, anyhow,

775
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: when Facebook made this announcement it was changing its name

776
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: to Meta. Metaverse related cryptos pumped big time. So for instance, um,

777
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: the Central Land's manna tooken, the manna tooken for decentral

778
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: and which we talked about in the Token's episode last week.

779
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: It's price on the October eighty one cents. The announcement

780
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: from Meta was the next day. A couple of days

781
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: later it was three dollars fifty three. If you look

782
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: on its price chart, it's crazy. So the metaverse concept

783
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: had landed and many began to believe that crypto focused

784
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: projects could actually make it happen. You know, there was

785
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: excitement beyond just what you know book was trying to do.

786
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: And there's certainly a lot more hope that crypto focused

787
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: metaverse could offer alternative to corporate ones. And um, now

788
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: the crucial difference, I guess when you think of a

789
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: of a crypto metaverse, and again the touchstones here are

790
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: the Central Land and the Sandbox. What they do is

791
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: that they have these in game assets. So the Central

792
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: Land has Land, which is the you know, the n

793
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: f t s that represent this virtual land and manner,

794
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: which is the in game currency. Now, anyone can combuy

795
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: these and crucially they can take custody of them, they

796
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: can move them into their own into their own wallets.

797
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: So with the central land, for instance, it's built on ethereum,

798
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: so you'd use your meta mask, browser extension wallet, but

799
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: you know you have custody of that of those assets. Now,

800
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: Facebook has talked about embracing n f t s, you know,

801
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: issuing n f t s in its in its metaverse,

802
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: but it almost certainly won't let users take custody of

803
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: the You won't be able to move those n f

804
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: t s into your own wallet, into your own self

805
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: custodied wallet, because again, that would that would allow you

806
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: to take value out of that metaverse, you know, out

807
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: of that walled garden that that that Facebook is trying

808
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: to create, and the companies don't, the corporations don't want that.

809
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: So the big difference here, you know, when we talk

810
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: about this idea of a decentralized you know, of a

811
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: blockchain based metaverse, is that the decentralization comes from the

812
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: fact that users take ownership of their assets, take custody

813
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: of their assets, and I mean de central Land for instance,

814
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: it operates as as a DOW, as a decentralized autonomous organization,

815
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: which makes you know, governance and decision making decentralized as

816
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: its core. If you hold manner, you know, if you

817
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: hold land, you get a say in how decentral Land

818
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: is run, how the dowers run UM. And there are

819
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: lots of other you know, there are lots of other

820
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: sort of metaverse decentralized kind of metaverse platforms that are

821
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: bringing up. But again you know, the Sandbox and decentral

822
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: end of the other two big ones UM and yeah,

823
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: you know, they they've they've allowed you know, anyone can

824
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: buy in to these things. And it's so there's this

825
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: idea of decentralization, and I mean decentralization is there are

826
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: varying degrees of it, and I mean, for instance, the

827
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 1: Sandbox because it's controlled by Animoca brands. You know, there's

828
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: there's there's some there's questions around how decentralized the Sandbox

829
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: really is. And this process of decentralization is an ongoing thing.

830
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just you can't just say, oh, well,

831
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: it's decentralized because anyone can buy in it's like, how

832
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: much can people buy up lots of land and therefore

833
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: have more control. How much control does the company that

834
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: built this thing in the first place, how much does

835
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: it retain? So this, Yeah, decentralization is a is a

836
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: very all encompassing term. But certainly these kind of you know,

837
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: these crypto these blockchain focused metaversees, these decentralized metaverse is

838
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: to my mind, offer a much more you know, a

839
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: much better idea of what the metaverse could be in

840
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, um, and yeah, as as I said,

841
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: corporate metaverse is they it's hard to imagine them allowing

842
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: custodial ownership of the assets in the same way as

843
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: as traditionally you have this kind of crucial moment. I

844
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: think it's like, Okay, I own this, this is mine,

845
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: I've paid for it, so can I now do what

846
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: I want with it? But I think you can do

847
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: with you what you want with it. But within the

848
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: realms of the yeah, the ecosystem. Yeah, it's like, so

849
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm in the Yeah, I'm in Mega Corps metaverse and

850
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: I own you know, I own I am in dot

851
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: COM's metaverse. Can I take you know, can I take

852
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: the n F t s that I've created saying here

853
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: and take them over to decentral land, or can I

854
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: take into Microsoft metaverse or whatever. It's like, it's it's

855
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 1: hard to imagine that happening because that that that means

856
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: that value has been taken out. So and this I

857
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: think leads us on. I mean, let's talk about let's

858
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: talk more about the drawbacks of the metaverse concept itself.

859
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: Like leaving aside whether it's a corporate metaverse, whether it's

860
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: a crypto focused to decentralized metaverse, you know that there

861
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: are still there are still drawbacks to the to the

862
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: to the concept itself. And I mean, I think the

863
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: first one is, let's face it, a lot of people,

864
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: not everyone, but a lot of people aren't exactly their

865
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: best selves when they're online. There are already instances. I mean,

866
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: here's what we were talking about Vice magazine earlier. Here's

867
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: a Vice headline from February this year. Woman says she

868
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: was virtually gang raped in Facebook's metaverse. Uh and it's

869
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty horrible to read, you know. She she

870
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: says she went in there, you know her? He is

871
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: that is that a is that a salacious clickbait title?

872
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: Or is that because I don't know the metaverse? I

873
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: mean I read that having read the article, it was

874
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: because it makes you just take the headset off. Well yeah,

875
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: but I think there's I mean, and I think that's

876
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: a question that a lot of people ask. It's like, well,

877
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: if you don't you know, if you felt uncomfortable in there,

878
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: why didn't you get out of there? It's like, well that,

879
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean, don't get me wrong that, I'm not like,

880
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm not condoning that. Yeah, I mean, that's not the

881
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: that's not the issue. That is the issue is I mean,

882
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: how do you have sex with someone on well? I

883
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: mean you know that we please let me consentually. I mean,

884
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: this is why, you know, virtually gang raped. So reading

885
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: this article, you know, this woman was sort of walking

886
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: around this Facebook metaverse as her as a you know,

887
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: as her female avatar, and she said she was sort

888
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: of surrounded by all these male avatars with male voices

889
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: who you know, who are sort of touching her avatar

890
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: and making inappropriate comments and stuff. It's it's pretty queasy

891
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: to read, you know. It's just like, Wow, okay, we've

892
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: got this new thing, and already people are behaving like

893
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: this I mean I sound surprised, but this is just

894
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: how a lot of people are, isn't it. But I

895
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: mean yes, so whatever form the metaverse takes, if it's

896
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: constructed along the same lines as much of the rest

897
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: of the Internet, then I think you could argue it'll

898
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: just turn into another place for people that's kind of

899
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: lawless and where people just go around being dicks to

900
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 1: each other. So there's a lot that need to sign

901
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: me up? How do I how do I get in there? Um?

902
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: So no, Yeah, I know there's there's always going to

903
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: be abuse of new technologies and people just being absolute

904
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 1: knob Jesus. Yeah, and I mean it, this is already

905
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: a question, isn't it. But new laws governing how people

906
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: behave online, I mean I think they they are going

907
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: to need to be introduced. I mean I'm not saying

908
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: social credit scores of the answer here. I mean where

909
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: do you look at it with Ellen? And and but

910
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: I suppose look if you if you can, if it's

911
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: kind of linked to you, like Twitter, like under Ellen,

912
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: potentially if it goes ahead or he's forced to buy it, whatever, Yeah,

913
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: you're going to be okay, cool. You pay to be verified,

914
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: and that that's how you can interact and do a

915
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: lot more accountability. Yes, yeah, and this is actually I mean,

916
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: this is this is slightly tan gentle, but one of

917
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: the big things being talked about in the crypto space

918
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: at the moment is this idea of a decentralized digital

919
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: i D. So you know, you can you can sort

920
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: of prove who you are. You know, you can prove

921
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: that you're a real person. You know, you're not a

922
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: bot or whatever, but you still have that degree of privacy. Yeah,

923
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, you can be anonymous, but you're still you know,

924
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: you still have an I D. And it's a it's

925
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: a really interesting it's a really interesting idea, you know,

926
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: of of how you bring this kind of accountability to

927
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: the digital space, you know, to stop people, I guess

928
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: just because in real life you can just get punched

929
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: in the face. But yeah, yeah, like a dick, you

930
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: can punch in the face or arrested or you know,

931
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: or come up and will be coming potentially, whereas online

932
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: you can just unplug and forget about it. And and

933
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: this is what and this is what a lot of

934
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: people do. You know, this is how a lot of

935
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: people live their lives. You know that they're sort of

936
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: they're you know, perfectly sort of normal human beings in

937
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: real life, but a darker side of them emerges when

938
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: they're on the Internet. And you know it's the metaverse.

939
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: If if the meta well when the metaverse comes. So also,

940
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: I also think one of the things that is a

941
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: problem is nuance and human interactions is completely removed from

942
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: a Twitter tweet. You know. It's like when I send

943
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: you a text, it could be read in three or

944
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: four different tones and voices. Same thing with the tweet

945
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: um And you know how people interact online, some people

946
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: take great offense to something when it could just be

947
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: you know, miss worded or or or it could be

948
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: interpreted into completely different ways. Sarcasm, you know, is lost.

949
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: And you know people think you think exact opposite when

950
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: you're actually on the same um side of the coin.

951
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: So maybe with the metal worse and you know, it's

952
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: a bit more of a that there's more detail. Yeah,

953
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: then maybe you know you can tell if someone's being

954
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: sarcastic because you are. It's kind of a more of

955
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: a face to face interaction. Yeah. Well, this absolutely and

956
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: this kind of leads into what I mean, obviously, the

957
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: thing that happened to that girl. Obviously that's not like

958
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: that's a that's not yeah, I mean that that that

959
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: is taking that kind of you know, that that extra

960
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: angler realism, you know, and and going I suppose that

961
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: is the g t A kind of it's it's not real.

962
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: So you know in g t A, you know, wasn't

963
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: there this thing where you kind of you had to, uh,

964
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: you sleep with the prostitute and then you could shoot

965
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: her and get your money back and that was a thing,

966
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's kind of yeah, And there

967
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: was a huge outcry about it wasn't it because but

968
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: when it's when it's when it's a what is the

969
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: term non like, it's not non playing character NPC. So

970
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: I did get it right an the car National Car Parks.

971
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: I bet people shouting at me. Yeah, when it's a NPC,

972
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But when it's someone who when it

973
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: could be a child, yeah, it's yeah. There's there's so

974
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: many there's so many different you know, there's so much

975
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: to think about with now how people interact in this space.

976
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: But I mean what you're saying, you know, it leads

977
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: quite nicely onto the final bit that I want to

978
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, what are the actual benefits of

979
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: the metaververson? How is it? How can it be a

980
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: good thing. Let's take a break before we talk about that,

981
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: and then and then we'll finish on a on a

982
00:54:47,320 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: high note. We're back. Let's crack on with part three.

983
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: So what are the potential benefits of the metaverse we've

984
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: talked about? I mean money, if you've invested loads, you

985
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: can get out of money. If you're a tech, if

986
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: you're a tech, if you're if you're Mark Zuckerberg, it's

987
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: almost unlimited amounts of money to be made. Yeah, And

988
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: as you touched on earlier, you know, the potential for

989
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 1: growth without the limitations of reality. Yeah. And I think

990
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: also the way that you can it could offer a

991
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: way to actually bring people together to use a sort

992
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: of Zuckerberg is um if you like, but you know,

993
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: to bring people together in a way that things like

994
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: Zoom or Microsoft teams they can't. It's really it's been

995
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 1: really interesting the past couple of years with the pandemic

996
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: and stuff, hasn't it, Because you know, suddenly, suddenly there

997
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: was this suddenly video called virtual meetings and all this

998
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: sort of stuff became the thing and we were given

999
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: this kind of glimpse into what we thought was the future.

1000
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't really I can't really think

1001
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: of many people who who actually enjoy Zoom, you know,

1002
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: it's actually enjoy having these meetings over Zoom. You know.

1003
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: I disagree, really, I disagree because I have a newborn

1004
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: child and I love spending time with him. And whereas

1005
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: sometimes if you come into the office of when I

1006
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: come in here, to the to the comedy club or whatever,

1007
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: I am just busy without the whole day. Whereas if

1008
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: I've got a Zoom meeting, I know, okay, cool, it's

1009
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: going to be here till roughly here I prep for

1010
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: that meeting. We are not distracted because and we don't

1011
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: all have to be in the same room. And I

1012
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: can do it with my kids just in the cop

1013
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: over there. So there are definitely benefits to it. But

1014
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: I'd argue that you enjoy what you like about There

1015
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: is a convenience, you know, it makes your life easier,

1016
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: the actual, the actual process, the actual you know, talking

1017
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: to someone on a computer screen is for me, and

1018
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: I think for most people is no is no substitute

1019
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: for for for face to face, for speaking you don't

1020
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: know who I work with, and I don't want to

1021
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 1: face to face with any of these cretins at any point.

1022
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: I would like miles between us and and you know,

1023
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'd like to turn the camera off, but yeah,

1024
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: no it face to face is always better and you

1025
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: get more of a feel. But there is the convenience,

1026
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: I'd say is a massive benefit and and you know,

1027
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: it means you can be more productive. I can have

1028
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: more meetings in a day because I don't have to

1029
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: travel and exactly exactly, and this, I think is where

1030
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: the metaverse can can really offer something, because it can

1031
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: be this way that we can actually interact with people

1032
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: in a much more personalized way, with the kind of

1033
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: with the convenience of something like Zoom, but with a

1034
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: lot more reality. If you know, it's not talking to

1035
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: a two dimensional face on a computer screen. It And

1036
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: I think when once the technology catch us up with

1037
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: the concept, then the messa verse of the future, I

1038
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: think you'll be meeting someone virtually and you can be

1039
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: on other You'll be able to be on the other

1040
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: side of the world, and it will be very much

1041
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: like you are in the room with them. It will

1042
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: and it will feel almost seamless. But I mean we're

1043
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: getting ahead of ourselves there. But I think you can

1044
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: see just one benefit of it there, you know, yeah, yeah,

1045
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: you have more you have more realistic meetings with people,

1046
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: so you don't like so just looking at from okay, cool,

1047
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: we would have a group call, which would always be

1048
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: a nightmare because not everyone is listening, and not everyone

1049
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: is you know, they're doing other things. Whereas now you've

1050
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: got the Zoom thing, which is a video call, so

1051
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: you can actually see people. You can see the reactions

1052
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: on their face. You know, if if someone you throw

1053
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: out an offer or make a suggestion to people on

1054
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: a voice call, you don't know there there are actual

1055
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: true reaction because you don't see their factual reaction. Where

1056
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: where is in on a Zoom or a Google Meet

1057
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: video call, you can see their reaction to it and

1058
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: you can sort of go, okay, cool. Maybe I shouldn't

1059
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: have said that, but yes, so this yeah, this idea

1060
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: of being you know, of having the convenience of virtual

1061
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: you of meeting virtually, but with the you know, with

1062
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: with the kind of human side of actually meeting face

1063
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: to face. I mean there's limitless potential there. I mean,

1064
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: one one example I saw cited was education. Some of

1065
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: the people I felt sorrious for in the over the

1066
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: course of the pandemic and lockdowns and stuff, was these

1067
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: poor kids having to you know, tend virtual classes school.

1068
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean think of education in practical

1069
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: terms that you know, you can you could have a

1070
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: virtual class of people from any corner of the planet.

1071
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: You could, you could demonstrate stuff. You know, it's so

1072
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: much this kind of three D aspect of it. Um

1073
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: and yeah. Mean, one example cited was medical students, Like

1074
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: let's say you need to you know, you need to

1075
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: practice doing a heart bypass or something like that. You

1076
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: know you can do it. You can do it virtually,

1077
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: the teacher can be in the room with you, so

1078
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: to speak. And again, as the technology evolves, you know

1079
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: you'll be able to practice it on a on an

1080
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: avatar and stuff like that. You know, so you know,

1081
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: the scope for it is is amazing. Of course, again,

1082
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: people being able to get together, they might eliminate the

1083
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: need for a lot of air travel for instance, you know,

1084
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: virtual meeting. I mean, I've spoken to loads of people

1085
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: I know. I know one guy who works in advertising

1086
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: and marketing and stuff, and his job basically is client facing.

1087
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's his job to go and schmooz clients.

1088
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: And he said, you know, before the pandemic, I used

1089
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: to travel, you know, I used to take sort of

1090
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: three or four flights a week sometimes, you know, make

1091
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: three or four trips a week to you know, all

1092
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: across Europe and stuff. And then obviously it's it's stopped

1093
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. And I said, do you think you'll

1094
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: go fully virtual? Now He's like, no, because people value

1095
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: a handshake, you know, and so but if you're able

1096
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: to do that, if you're able to marry the best

1097
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: of both worlds, and that's reduce the reduce it down

1098
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: to okay, cool, we'll have a couple of meetings on

1099
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: zoom and then we'll do the nitty gritty face to face. Yeah. Yeah,

1100
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: if you're able to go and do stuff in the metaverse,

1101
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: you could you could eliminate a lot of just unnecessary,

1102
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: boring stuff like, for instance, um Barbados is trying to

1103
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: establish an embassy in the metaverse. Now imagine if you

1104
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: needed to go and get a visa or a passport,

1105
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: you know, at the moment you have to go to

1106
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: the embassy in town you have to sit on an

1107
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: uncomfortable chair in the stuffy room and wait your turn

1108
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: along with everyone else. Imagine if you could just do

1109
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: that from home. You could have your you could have

1110
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: your virtual passport stamps, you could have your meeting sort

1111
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: of face to face with this person for your visa,

1112
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. And I mean, well, go

1113
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: back to that, go back to the idea of weddings.

1114
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you could have once they get

1115
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: these kind of virtual weddings, right, It's like, think of

1116
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: a le bridezillas who want their dream kind of wedding.

1117
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: You know, we all want to get married on the

1118
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: beach in Hawaii, don't we. But imagine that that is

1119
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: something people could do. But and as the technology improves,

1120
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, that could be hyper realistic. You know, everyone

1121
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: could get married on the beach in Hawaii. And I think,

1122
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, to be serious for a moment, I think, um,

1123
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: one of the really important things, one of the really

1124
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: important aspects to consider about the metaverse is that we

1125
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: are living in a world that is getting increasingly automated.

1126
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: Traditional jobs are dying out. I think in a lot

1127
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: of cases they're dying out a lot slower than perhaps

1128
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: was predicted a few years ago, but gradually machines computers

1129
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: are taking over more and more of what actual humans do.

1130
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: And I think this is something this is a time

1131
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: bomb that we're sitting on for the future. Is that

1132
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: what are people going to do all day long? And

1133
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: I think this is where the metaverse could really offer something.

1134
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: You know, not only in terms of giving people leisure,

1135
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, giving people somewhere to go and escape to

1136
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: and spend their time and you know, do things rather

1137
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: than just kind of sitting around drinking or you know,

1138
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: basically making a nuisance of themselves, but you know, where

1139
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: people can exist in a world that where there is

1140
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: just less work for people to do. But also it

1141
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: could open up new frontiers of employment. And be touched

1142
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: on this earlier, didn't we this idea that the metaverse

1143
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: itself will not only create economic growth but also create

1144
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: the jobs that that growth needs. So you know, there

1145
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: would be more employment opportunities for people in the metaverse,

1146
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: and you would hope that if that was done right,

1147
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: like a metaverse them job might be a lot better

1148
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: than some of the sort of hard, crappy jobs that

1149
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: people have to do in real life. So again I

1150
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: think this is a I think this is a really

1151
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: sort of interesting and potentially good, you know, force for

1152
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: good that the metaverse can avenue, that the metaverse can

1153
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: open up because it addresses I think one of the

1154
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 1: big problems that we as a species face is, Yeah,

1155
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: as we as we get machines to do more and

1156
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: more things for us, as robots become more advanced, as

1157
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: technology becomes more advanced, you know, what are humans going

1158
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: to do with themselves all day long? And I think

1159
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: the metaverse can offer some some answers to that question,

1160
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: To those questions, not all the answers of education, gambling, sex,

1161
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: work exactly, all catered for, all virtue without all from

1162
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: the comfort of your own home. Here's one more quote

1163
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: from Arthur Hayes. He says, quote, the advent of super intelligent,

1164
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: networked thinking machines will herald an era where the vast

1165
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: majority of humans labor is economically worthless. Freed from the

1166
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: from the physical constraints of work, humans will turn to

1167
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: their new digital worlds and the complete expression of civilization's

1168
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: creativity vitality. The metaverse is the future. Mm hmm. That

1169
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: transition is going to be interesting. Yeah, it's going to

1170
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: be quite gradual, I think as well. But I mean

1171
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: we are in a way, we're already seeing it, aren't we,

1172
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: Because we're already seeing these new jobs emerge. My influencer

1173
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: is a job, um And a few years ago everyone

1174
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: people would have got well, how how on earth could

1175
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: you earn a living from posting photos on a website?

1176
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: How on earth you can't monetize that? Already, the Internet

1177
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: as we know it is creating, is creating new jobs,

1178
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: is creating new I mean, I'm a content create you know,

1179
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: people like me, you might say, thankfully, did not exist

1180
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: a few years ago. And in a relatively short period

1181
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 1: of time, these new tools that have become available to

1182
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: us have made new types of jobs for people and

1183
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: basically keeps people like me off the streets. And I

1184
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: think we can all agree that's probably a good thing,

1185
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: so you know, And this kind of leads me on

1186
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: to the conclusion. And and the question I wrote down

1187
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: here was so related to the metaverse, was show should

1188
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: we care? Do people need to care about the meta verse?

1189
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it something that they should be thinking

1190
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: of it? What I think is weird and what I

1191
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: think is going to be interesting is the fact on

1192
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: mental health. Yeah, and like because we're not we're we're

1193
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: not We're not evolving as quickly as the technology. Being

1194
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: in a virtual world for ten hours a day probably

1195
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: isn't great. No, no, And it's it's just it's it's

1196
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: it's so hard to it's so hard to imagine what

1197
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: effects this is going to have because on the one hand,

1198
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: you could say, and we've kind of touched it, haven't we.

1199
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: On the one hand, you could say, like in the metaverse,

1200
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: you know you will have you will have this kind

1201
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: of interaction with people, and the technology will evolve so

1202
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: much that it will feel real, but it won't be.

1203
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: And as you say, we're not involved, we're a species

1204
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: that is still essentially built to Yeah, like we you know,

1205
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: we we we kind of belong in the great outdoors.

1206
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 1: And there is this huge switch going on and we're

1207
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: seeing the effects are just of the Internet as it

1208
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: currently is, you know, with without the metaphverse getting started.

1209
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 1: We're seeing the effects that the internet is having on people. Um,

1210
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, whether it's children sort of experiencing

1211
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: more bullying because they can't escape it and it's not

1212
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: like you can just go home and switch off, like

1213
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: when we were kids, if you were if something was

1214
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: getting you down, if someone was bullying you at school,

1215
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: went home. There was a reprieve. Yeah, and but now

1216
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: it follows you home, Like, what will that be like

1217
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: in in the metaverse? You know, will there be any escape?

1218
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what if? What are the what about these

1219
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: people who want to switch off entirely? There'll be people,

1220
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,439
Speaker 1: but there'll be people at the other extremes. Something really

1221
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,959
Speaker 1: interesting in this novel snow Crash, which we talked about,

1222
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: was that there's this kind of subculture of people. I

1223
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: think they're called I think they're called gargoyles, and they

1224
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: are the people who choose to exist all the time

1225
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: in the metaverse, and they wear these they wear these

1226
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: virgoggles all the time. But this is the thing. It's

1227
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: kind of like the the balance, because you're going to

1228
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: need to eat, you're going to need to exercise, you're

1229
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: gonna need to bathe, Like, the real world is still

1230
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: going to be there. It's kind of tell this to

1231
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: tell that to those gamers in you know, in places

1232
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 1: like South Korea. I mean, do you remember that was

1233
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: a thing a few years ago. I mean this was

1234
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: pre pandemic and stuff. But there was this issue of

1235
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: of of kids, you know, mostly young men, I think,

1236
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: but also young women in places like South Korea who

1237
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: are going into these gaming cafes and just going online

1238
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: for hours, days at a time and barely eating and

1239
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: developed developing all sorts of problems. You know. It's it's

1240
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: kind of here, you know, this, this this business, this

1241
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: idea of how much time we spend online, of how

1242
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 1: that shapes our life, how that you know, how how

1243
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: that affects us physically and mentally, and all these things.

1244
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: These are already questions that we're having to that we're

1245
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: having to ask ourselves, and those questions are only going

1246
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: to become more pronounced as the metaverse, as the idea

1247
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 1: of this internet in three D kind of I guess

1248
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: grows coalesces around us, because it won't suddenly be will

1249
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: all wake up and it's like, ah, here's introducing the metaverse,

1250
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: and here, yeah, it'll it'll gradually, it'll gradually encroach upon

1251
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: our lives. Where to the extent in let's say, twenty

1252
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: years time, we you'll sit down, you'll go, wow, oh

1253
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 1: my word, I have not spent much time in real life,

1254
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, I've not as Arthur Hayes calls it the

1255
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: meat space, which I think is a great maybe you

1256
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 1: know it might have borrowed that term from mills Web.

1257
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: I have not. I am not in the meat space

1258
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: right now, you know, I haven't. I haven't touched another

1259
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: human being in real life for quite a long time.

1260
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: And I think that is genuinely how it will be.

1261
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: And the question is how we can shape that to be,

1262
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: you know, how we can how we can lessen the

1263
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: impact of that, how we can make the metaverse a

1264
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: good thing or a better thing than it than it?

1265
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 1: Then it will be if we just kind of allow

1266
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: it to, I think, to go down the path that

1267
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: it seems to be going at the moment. So if

1268
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: someone's asking themselves that question, you know, should I care

1269
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 1: about the metaverse? The answer is yes, because it's coming

1270
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: whether we like it or not. And for one thing,

1271
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: because just because there's too much money to be made

1272
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: for it not. You know that that those wheels are

1273
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: in motion, and what we're really waiting for is the

1274
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: technology to catch up. But as you said, technology is

1275
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: evolving a lot quicker than humans. So the technology is

1276
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: coming and there's lots that needs to be done. Obviously,

1277
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, VR is quite advice is much more advanced

1278
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 1: now than it was just a few years ago. But

1279
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 1: the the the Time magazine article talks about this, you know,

1280
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: that talks about some of the technologies that will need

1281
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: to be developed in order for the metaverse to kind

1282
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: of reach the potential that that it can you know,

1283
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, for people to be able to you know,

1284
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: to virtually touch each other something, to experience loves. It's

1285
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of you know, you've got to wear of body suit.

1286
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, like, how are you gonna how

1287
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: are you gonna synthesize how you're going to develop the

1288
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: technology that someone in a virtual world, in in the

1289
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 1: metaverse can experience all five senses. You can see, and

1290
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: you can hear, how do you taste, smell, and touch

1291
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: in the world. You know that technology is still as

1292
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: haptic suits already, but it's kind of yeah, I mean,

1293
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: they're working on it, but they're not there yet. So

1294
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot Metal vision is going to be interesting Smeelevision. Yeah, Yeah,

1295
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: it's um because I suppose it's Elon moss Is neuralink

1296
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: that's going to be the Yeah, I mean, it's like

1297
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: I say, it's being worked on these techno ologies are

1298
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: you know that they're not they're not all at the

1299
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: drawing board stage. You know that they're no longer science fiction.

1300
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: They are being worked on and places like Meta. You know,

1301
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: Meta is pumping billions of dollars into the development of

1302
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: these technologies. It's not just this concept of the metaverse itself,

1303
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's all the sort of things that we're

1304
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: going to have to have in order to in order

1305
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 1: to interact with it. Um, So, I guess you know,

1306
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: the question is can can the metaverse solve problems? Can

1307
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 1: it give us access to you to this better world

1308
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: rather than just add an extra dimension to our lives,

1309
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 1: rather than just add an extra dimensions of the problems

1310
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: that we already have. Um who wants to live in

1311
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg's version of the future, Well not me, you know,

1312
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 1: for a start. And I guess you know, if you

1313
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: want to call to arms for the you know, to

1314
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: to wrap the episode up, it's it's a we as

1315
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: I think the crypto community as crypto efficionados, you know,

1316
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility is on us to ensure that

1317
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: the metaverse becomes something good because I think cryptocurrency can

1318
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: offer you know, we're already seeing it with with decentralized

1319
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: metaversees like decentral end and to a lesser extent, the Sandbox.

1320
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 1: You know, they are they are the rival to these

1321
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: corporate meta verses, and I think that is the direction

1322
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 1: that we need to go. You know, we need to

1323
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: have a metaverse that everyone can own a part of,

1324
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: because if you're just living in a corporation's world, then that,

1325
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: I think is when you get the dystopia. That's so

1326
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: that's so much of you know that the metaverse kind

1327
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: of exists in culturally as you know, as we said

1328
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode, you know, so many

1329
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: of these ideas of the metaverse crop up in these

1330
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: dystopian In a dystopian setting, how can we I don't

1331
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: think we can never make it utopian and we can

1332
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: never make it a perfect world, but we the people

1333
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: need to have a say in how it evolves. So

1334
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: there's your rallying cry for the crypto community. Closing thoughts, Michael,

1335
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 1: I wish we had done the measure. This episode does

1336
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: ruin the metal. I'm just like the only thing I

1337
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: worry about with with that is the is the money

1338
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 1: that it can be pumped in and there there. The

1339
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 1: corporation meta verses are just going to be They're gonna

1340
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,560
Speaker 1: have the patents on smell a vision and you know,

1341
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: all of this sort of stuff, so that it's going

1342
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: to be more realistic and more enjoyable and easier to

1343
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: buy in and easier to become addicted to, rather than

1344
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: the sort of open source version. Yeah, Linux is great,

1345
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: but I don't use it. Not many people do. Yeah,

1346
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: it's I mean, yeah, it's it's it's that thing were

1347
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 1: we as humans are. So we're so cussid in a way,

1348
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: aren't we? Because we'll keep doing things that we know

1349
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: are bad for us. I will, I will spend too

1350
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:09,919
Speaker 1: much time on crypto Twitter, even though I know crypto

1351
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 1: Twitter is bad for you. You know, it's great to

1352
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 1: go on there for five minutes, but then I find

1353
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 1: out I've spent half an hour on there, and I'm like,

1354
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 1: I'll just I think you're reducing these numbers quite a bit. Yea,

1355
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 1: not longer than there are a lot worse people than me.

1356
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 1: But I mean my point is that we just we

1357
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 1: do things that we know about, and I think we

1358
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: I think we will we will come to see the metaverse. However,

1359
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 1: it exists, there will be good and bad, and it's

1360
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: just how much we can a how much we can

1361
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 1: shape it ourselves so as the bad is contained, so

1362
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: it's not And crucially, I think so it's not just

1363
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: funneling profits into the pockets of mega corporations, which is

1364
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: basically where you know, the way the internet currently works.

1365
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: How can we make it more democratic? How can we

1366
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: make a metaverse for the people and the CCP people,

1367
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: the Chinese people, and how can we and be you know,

1368
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 1: how can we how can we make a metaverse that

1369
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: isn't just something? Isn't just a world where we indulge

1370
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: all the very kind of worst aspects of ourselves, and

1371
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: you know how it doesn't become a place where you

1372
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: just go to, you know, for vice for your idea

1373
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: of Well, I suppose there's education in your metaverse, isn't there?

1374
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 1: There's also gambling in sex work, it's learning how to gamble.

1375
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: The education is very much tied into Okay, So that

1376
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:41,879
Speaker 1: was a kind of free form rambling chat about the metaverse.

1377
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: I hope that's kind of explained the concept a bit too. People.

1378
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: I hope you're not as terrified as I am. I

1379
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: hope that. Yeah, well, I mean, if you are, that

1380
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: should act as a that should hopefully galvanize galvanize you too.

1381
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: I hope you're not a terrified but also apathetic and lazy.

1382
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: I'm terrified. I'm terrified, but I'm also terrified. I'm not

1383
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: going to do anything about this. Well, folks, yeah, you

1384
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: know what to do? Um that, just don't do nothing.

1385
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: Don't be like Mike. Don't be like Mike. We re

1386
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: re reappropriate. That be more. I want to be like Mike.

1387
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: Don't be like Mike. Whatever you do you do, don't

1388
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: be like Mike. If if there's one message that this episode,

1389
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: don't be like Mike. Thank you so much for listening

1390
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: to the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like to learn

1391
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: more about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube channel at

1392
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You can also

1393
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,440
Speaker 1: go to coin bureau dot com for loads more information

1394
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: about all things crypto. You can follow me on Twitter

1395
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 1: and at coin bureau or one word, and I'm also

1396
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: active on TikTok and Instagram as well. First of all,

1397
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: it's not thank you for listening, you're welcome for great content. Yeah,

1398
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,799
Speaker 1: like this is free and they're learning about a fairly

1399
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: great topic in a non boring way. If you'd like

1400
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: to visit me and hear more about me, go to

1401
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: mooch About m O O C H A, b O

1402
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: U T or else. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

1403
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1404
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: we get your podcasts. The coin Gera podcast is a

1405
01:18:35,960 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio.