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Speaker 1: Hello, there's Chuck Todd. Another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Got a interesting and fun one for you today, fun

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Speaker 2: interview with Mariza Giorgio and John Tester. Maritza is a

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Speaker 2: longtime journalist based out of Montana, and she and John

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Speaker 2: Tester started their own podcast earlier this year. As she jokes,

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Speaker 2: they both were looking for work after the election and

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Speaker 2: both being Montana's and knowing each other for a while,

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Speaker 2: They've started a fascinating new podcast. It tries to, you know,

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Speaker 2: take advantage of the fact that too much of political

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Speaker 2: coverage is based out of DC or New York and

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Speaker 2: not enough everywhere else. Well, they're both based in Montana,

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Speaker 2: different parts of Montana as you'll learn, but it allowed

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Speaker 2: for a fascinating conversation on the future of independent media, media,

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Speaker 2: the future of the democracy, the future of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: Given we have John Tester there, so I think you're

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Speaker 2: going to enjoy the conversation, so I urge you to

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Speaker 2: stick around. But look, I am, I'm coming to you

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Speaker 2: middle of the week here Washington is beginning this weird.

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Speaker 1: Situation.

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Speaker 2: Over the next seventy two hours, it's becomes it's some

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Speaker 2: people call it nerd prom it's White House correspond it's weekend.

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Speaker 2: There's all sorts of people coming to town, all sorts

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Speaker 2: of entities throwing party. So one thing is for sure,

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Speaker 2: gossip will be sort of lots of gossip out there.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not here to tell you about the White

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Speaker 2: House correspond it's gossip. I'll just tell you this about

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Speaker 2: the dinner. The older I get, the less interest that

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Speaker 2: I am in the in the dinner. Of course, when

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Speaker 2: you're young and new to Washington, you can't wait to

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Speaker 2: get invited to these parties, and you're always trying to

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Speaker 2: sneak in, and then of course you hit a certain

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Speaker 2: age that that literally it's like the old. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a I think it's an old. It's an old.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I want to say it's a Groucho Marx expression. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it's is or not, but it's something like,

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Speaker 2: if you're inviting me to the party, it must not

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Speaker 2: be good anymore. And it's like, now that I'm invited

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Speaker 2: to these things, you don't want to go. When you

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Speaker 2: couldn't invited, you couldn't wait to go. It kind of

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Speaker 2: is the attitude I have, And I think it's we've

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Speaker 2: discussed this.

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Speaker 1: You guys hopefully.

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Speaker 2: Remember the conversation Tarry, Paul, Mary and I had about

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Speaker 2: this and just sort of how how this whole weekend

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Speaker 2: has gotten messed up in so many ways. But it

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Speaker 2: is worth noting that you're going to say, and so

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Speaker 2: you'll probably see a lot of one source gossip making

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Speaker 2: the rounds over the next seventy two hours about.

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Speaker 1: This or that.

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Speaker 2: But I want to kick things off today with sort

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Speaker 2: of a bit of a report card for Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: because the first decent poll and let me just put

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Speaker 2: this out there. Decent poll meaning for me, it means

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Speaker 2: it's a poll that I'm going to care about the

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Speaker 2: cross tabs and care about the Pew Research Center brought

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Speaker 2: out there. They're the first one out of the gates,

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Speaker 2: at least the first legitimate poster out of the gates

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Speaker 2: with one hundred day check in. Yes we're not quite

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Speaker 2: at one hundred days, but they're essentially there. It's coming up,

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Speaker 2: and this will be the first of a lot of poles.

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Speaker 2: The big headline is that Donald Trump's already dropped from

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Speaker 2: at the start of his presidency. They had have been

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Speaker 2: forty seven percent. He's now sitting at forty percent. So

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Speaker 2: that's that's pretty low approval. It's a lower approval rating

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Speaker 2: than any president at this point in time in their

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Speaker 2: term since they've been polling. Bill Clinton was close to

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Speaker 2: being this low. He had a really rough start. He's

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Speaker 2: one of those His approval rating got better as his

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Speaker 2: first term went along, and got stronger going into the

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Speaker 2: second term until he ran into a personal scandal. The

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Speaker 2: only person that he's rivaling right now, Donald Trump, that

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Speaker 2: is with a low first hundred days approval rating as himself.

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Speaker 2: Essentially in twenty seventeen, he sat there and had a first,

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Speaker 2: a first, a lower. A few things about the cross

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Speaker 2: tabs what you see in this poll. I'm not surprised

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Speaker 2: by the forty I think I predicted that.

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Speaker 1: I don't expect him to get.

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Speaker 2: North to forty five for the rest of his term,

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Speaker 2: barring some unforeseen event that gets people to rally around him.

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Speaker 2: Because when you look at the cross tymes of this poll,

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Speaker 2: all of the you know, still got strong support among

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Speaker 2: his voters, and that's always important. But he's already lost independence,

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Speaker 2: and he certainly has lost Democrats. And in fact, this

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Speaker 2: is a number that I find fascinating. At an important

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Speaker 2: point here, Trump's job performance among those who did not

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Speaker 2: vote in twenty twenty four. We know a lot of

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Speaker 2: people didn't want to vote for either candidate. We heard

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Speaker 2: about it from the voter, So people that self identified

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Speaker 2: as not voting in twenty twenty four, Well, in February

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Speaker 2: he had an approval rating of forty four percent among

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Speaker 2: those voters, so a little bit below where he was,

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Speaker 2: but within a reasonable This is clearly, you know, basically

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Speaker 2: polarized view. Now among non voters thirty one percent. Now, look,

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Speaker 2: you may say, well, who cares about non voters, but

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Speaker 2: in many ways they're a leading indicator, right, This is

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Speaker 2: sort of the non voters usually are also fairly low information,

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Speaker 2: meaning they're just focused on in their lives. They're not

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Speaker 2: paying a lot of attention to politics. So whatever is

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Speaker 2: seeping into non voters is super negative, or he wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be sitting at this horrendous thirty one percent. It tells

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Speaker 2: you if he doesn't change course soon, and if the

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Speaker 2: perception of the economy doesn't improve soon, he's going to

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Speaker 2: look at a job approval rating that's going to be

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Speaker 2: sitting in. I know, I think I said this before.

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Speaker 2: He's got a floor of about thirty five percent. It's

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Speaker 2: very hard for any president to drop a low thirty

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Speaker 2: five percent. You do usually have a fairly strong base

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Speaker 2: of supporters that can keep you there. But it is

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Speaker 2: he's not in a great place. Basically. The only issue

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Speaker 2: where there's high confidence in his way of doing things

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Speaker 2: as immigration, and if you're just judging his immigration policy

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Speaker 2: by are people coming over the border? Too many people

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Speaker 2: coming over the border or not, well, there are plenty

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Speaker 2: of people out there that aren't going to question the

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Speaker 2: methods that their ends justify the means voters, and so

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Speaker 2: they're looking at it and they say, Okay, he was

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Speaker 2: going to tighten up the border, and he's tightened up

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Speaker 2: the border, but that's really about it. Everything else is

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Speaker 2: pretty negative on this front, and it's a it's a

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Speaker 2: tough spot for him to be from and it explains

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Speaker 2: why he's trying, frankly so desperately. You know, he's in

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Speaker 2: this trap now with his tariff plan. He in order

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Speaker 2: for his long term goal to work, he's got to

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Speaker 2: essentially be able to handle a little bit of political

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Speaker 2: pain short term and he's got to convince the country

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Speaker 2: that that's worth it. I've gone through this before, They've

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Speaker 2: you know, he's got ideas that the public wants him

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Speaker 2: to pursue. The execution of those ideas have been a

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Speaker 2: complete disaster.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: This is why I believe and I've said it twice

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Speaker 2: this week and I'll say it again. The biggest political

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Speaker 2: problem he has his competency, or a lack thereof. It's

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Speaker 2: an incompetency issue at the Pentagon. It's an incompetency issue

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Speaker 2: when it comes to how he implemented this tariff thing.

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Speaker 2: And now he's going back and forth. He's now negotiating

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Speaker 2: against himself. First, it's get tough on China, make them

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Speaker 2: come to the table. Now he's already backing away from

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Speaker 2: those sort of those threats. All of that just creates

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Speaker 2: this massive uncertainty. And that's you see this in these

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Speaker 2: poll in these poll numbers, his confidence in the economy

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Speaker 2: is dropping, uh and it is something that is dropping

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Speaker 2: rapidly because this was a core competency of him. This

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Speaker 2: is why voters who were reluctant to support him went

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Speaker 2: ahead and did it, because they said, you know what,

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Speaker 2: his economy was better than Biden's economy, and that's what

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Speaker 2: they remember. And if he doesn't figure out and so

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Speaker 2: he's sitting there now trying to manage the perception of

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Speaker 2: the economy as if it's a political problem. Right, so,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I need the markets to take off. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not firing Powell. I never even thought of firing pow.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's let's send the message. Let's have the

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Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary send the message that, hey, where where we

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Speaker 2: know we got to cut a deal with China? We're

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Speaker 2: not we know this is unsustainable. All of that is

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Speaker 2: designed to send positive vibes to to the big investors.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't you know this is you don't have

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Speaker 2: companies sitting there going oh, I'm oh, I feel certain

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Speaker 2: this is what the policy's going to be. So maybe

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Speaker 2: I will start to think about how to rebuild my

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Speaker 2: supply chain with an American first, America first mindset. But

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Speaker 2: when you see the president get tough, back off, get tough,

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Speaker 2: change his mind. Do this on a whim, do that

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Speaker 2: on a whim. That's not certainty, And at this point

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Speaker 2: you figure out, all right, I think we're just going

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Speaker 2: to stay paralyzed and see if we can make it

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Speaker 2: through this term and then worry about certainty down the road.

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Speaker 2: So look, I am I think this is the trap.

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Speaker 2: He's end this in order to accomplish what he wants

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Speaker 2: to accomplish with trade. If it's really about bringing manufacturing

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Speaker 2: in America, then he's got to be able to sustain

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Speaker 2: essentially a rough transition. But he doesn't have He knows

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Speaker 2: he doesn't really have the political capital to do that

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Speaker 2: and somehow convince Congress to pass his tax cut and

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Speaker 2: somehow to do these other things. So's he's in a

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Speaker 2: tough spot. The voters are noticing, and like I said

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Speaker 2: to me, the real canary in the coal mine are

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Speaker 2: the is how non voters perceive them. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: those people are going to show up to the polls,

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Speaker 2: but what it tells you is what has made it

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Speaker 2: through to low information voters, to people that aren't tuning in.

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Speaker 2: Low information doesn't mean by the way you hear expressions

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Speaker 2: like that, that doesn't mean dumb voters or anything. It

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Speaker 2: means busy people. Okay, low information about politics. Sometimes following

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Speaker 2: politics is a luxury. Trust me, I know this, and

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you downloading and listening and maintaining. By the way,

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Speaker 2: like and subscribe, tell all your friends that like and subscribe.

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Speaker 2: Did I tell you about liking and subscribing. But it

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Speaker 2: just what it tells me is people that are living

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Speaker 2: their own lives. What they're hearing, what they're feeling, and

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Speaker 2: what they're seeing is not good. Like I said, at

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Speaker 2: that thirty one percent, that sort of I'd look at

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Speaker 2: it as sort of that's the worst case scenario. Like

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Speaker 2: I said, I still think his base is in a

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Speaker 2: place that would keep him at least in the mid thirties.

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Speaker 2: But he's in a tough spot. But there's one more

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Speaker 2: wrinkle to this poll that I think is quite important,

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Speaker 2: and that wrinkle is which party has a higher favorable

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Speaker 2: rating right now, the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. Now,

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Speaker 2: I just gave you a litany of things. Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: everything he's touching, has a majority of voters not liking

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Speaker 2: what he's doing, even frankly on immigration, although that's basically

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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, But on everything else, people think the

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Speaker 2: cuts are too much to willy nilly, the doge cuts.

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Speaker 2: They don't like his foreign policy. This is a you know,

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Speaker 2: the country is still more in favor of Ukraine than Russia,

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Speaker 2: unlike where the president is sitting right now in these

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Speaker 2: on trying to strong arm Ukraine. His economic policies are unpopular,

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Speaker 2: so you'd think this would bleed into the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't. Publican party still and now has a higher

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Speaker 2: favorable rating than the Democratic Party. So all of this

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Speaker 2: disaster that has really been and this is arguably as

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Speaker 2: bad of a first hundred days. Bill Clinton had a

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Speaker 2: pretty bad first hundred days, but this is a much

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Speaker 2: worse first hundred days because it was self inflicted. Bill

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Speaker 2: Clinton had a plan. The plan didn't go well. This

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel like this team had a plan. They had

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Speaker 2: a plan when it came to cutting the government. They

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Speaker 2: had a plan when it came to going after the

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Speaker 2: you know, going doing the grievance thing, going after the

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Speaker 2: law firms, going after the universities, trying to go after

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Speaker 2: the media. So they had all these sort of what

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Speaker 2: i'd call retribution plans, but to actually run the country

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Speaker 2: outside of homeland security and the border, it doesn't look

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Speaker 2: like they really know what they're doing. At the Pentagon,

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Speaker 2: at the State Department. I mean, the way they cut

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Speaker 2: AID was a mess. Nobody is saying that these things

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Speaker 2: and this is so this is the fascinating eating thing

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Speaker 2: here that I think plays itself into the pole results

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Speaker 2: of the two parties. Is that for as unhappy and

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Speaker 2: is chaotic, you know, unhappy people are of Trump's chaos,

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Speaker 2: it's not as if this is yet accruing to the

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Speaker 2: benefit of the Democratic Party right now. This is anti Trump,

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Speaker 2: it's not yet anti conservative or anti Republican because the ideas, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, is these ideas. The public is still in

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Speaker 2: favor of making government smaller and efficient. That is a

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Speaker 2: goal that has majority support, but the public doesn't like

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Speaker 2: the execution when it comes to even on the due

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Speaker 2: process issues, which there is large majorities of the public.

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Speaker 2: By the way, even seventy five percent of Republicans say

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump should follow any sort of Supreme Court order.

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Speaker 2: So that was also a fascinating finding in this poll

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Speaker 2: that everybody seems as almost universal agreement that if the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court makes a ruling, donald Trump ought to follow

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Speaker 2: it and better follow it, pure and simple. So, look,

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Speaker 2: this is a pretty bad report card for Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: but the most fascinating takeaway I had, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: it looks like it could get worse for him. But

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Speaker 2: so far this is becoming a bigger problem for Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: and it's not yet accruing to the Democrats, and I

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Speaker 2: think part of it is the Democrats pull of an

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Speaker 2: identity crisis, Right, what are they for, what do they represent?

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Speaker 1: Where are they in these things?

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Speaker 2: It's clear that that Donald Trump doesn't know how to

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Speaker 2: manage the government. If you didn't, if you didn't get

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Speaker 2: that idea in the first term, you're now getting a

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Speaker 2: huge reminder here in the second term. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: fascinating to me see Ken Griffin, one of the most respected,

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Speaker 2: respected Wall Street investors that there is, who's a big Republican,

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Speaker 2: very supportive generically so of Republican causes, and has been

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Speaker 2: a on again off against supporter of Trump. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he supports Trump because he's the head of the Publican

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Speaker 2: Party and Ken Griffin Wooden doesn't want to support the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party. But the fact that he is essentially just

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Speaker 2: eviscerated Trump's tariff policy and has said that this is

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Speaker 2: now making companies focus more on supply chains than growth.

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Speaker 2: You know that, you know, and he's sitting there publicly

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Speaker 2: warning about tarnishing you know. In the conversation with Mark Zandy,

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Speaker 2: we talked about this tarnishing the country's reputation to a

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Speaker 2: point where even our debt is no longer considered worth

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Speaker 2: investing in. You know, there was nobody else's debt that

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Speaker 2: was better to invest in than the United States of America.

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Speaker 2: And if we're now creating uncertainty in that world where

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Speaker 2: big sovereign funds, whether it's the Saudia's or whoever, are

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Speaker 2: a little bit nervous in investing in US treasury bonds,

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Speaker 2: that's a big problem, not a small one, a big one.

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Speaker 2: But again, Democrats shouldn't feel really good about this poll

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Speaker 2: because they need to realize a lot of voters there

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Speaker 2: have a lot of concerns about the party don't see

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Speaker 2: them yet as a viable alternative, and that's something that

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Speaker 2: that Democrats have to work on. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: a public that wants to see government get closer to

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Speaker 2: the people and be more efficient. Can they promise that

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Speaker 2: this is a country that does want tighter borders. We've

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Speaker 2: we've always been you know, it's interesting, I don't think

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Speaker 2: America is a nativest country, but we're we're a bit nationalist, right,

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Speaker 2: We're we are we are sort of we want it's

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Speaker 2: not necessarily American first, right, but we want to be America.

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Speaker 2: We want to make sure we're the we're a little

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Speaker 2: bit ahead of everybody, right, it's this weird line. So

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Speaker 2: I think that in some cases that's why they the

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Speaker 2: ideas that Trump throws out there are ones that the

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Speaker 2: public well, all right, if he could do that, that

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Speaker 2: would be good. But his inability to execute is clearly

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Speaker 2: his chilles heel. And the question is at what point

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Speaker 2: to do congressional Republicans realize that Trump's taking them down, right,

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Speaker 2: that this is going to drag them down and drag

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Speaker 2: them down, and I and this is why he's and

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Speaker 2: if he continues to try to manage the stock market

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Speaker 2: like a political problem, all right, let's let's see if

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Speaker 2: I let's see if I can goose the markets this way,

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Speaker 2: all because he thinks he can deal with the markets

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Speaker 2: as a news cycle. Well, as you learn from Mark Zandy,

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Speaker 2: you know, unless these tariff deals start coming in and

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Speaker 2: there's not one yet, right, there's there is, I guess,

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Speaker 2: a concept of a memo of understanding with India. There's

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Speaker 2: a concept of an idea of a plan with Japan.

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Speaker 2: But he needs some points on the board, and he

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Speaker 2: needs points on the board quickly. Ironically, the market's desperate

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Speaker 2: for it if he can show that he actually knows

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Speaker 2: how to make one of these trade deals. I do

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Speaker 2: think the markets will reward them. But these are hard

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Speaker 2: and complicated and these tariffs aren't going to go away

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Speaker 2: until these deals are done. And that's that what's going

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Speaker 2: to I think that's what's going to impact his political

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Speaker 2: ratings even further. You know, it is interesting to me

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Speaker 2: that the Walmart and Target folks when they met with

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Speaker 2: the President used the visual of empty shelves. By July,

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Speaker 2: if this trade war with China doesn't de escalate. One

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Speaker 2: thing about Donald Trump is he understands visuals.

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Speaker 1: He knows.

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Speaker 2: This is a guy who is essentially create has tried

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Speaker 2: to turn perceptions into reality, so he understands how quickly

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Speaker 2: perceptions can become reality. He is somebody that tries to

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Speaker 2: create false realities. So when you have somebody who's that

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Speaker 2: good at that, they're aware of how powerful empty shelves.

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Speaker 2: You know, who has empty shelves Russia, right, communist countries, Cuba,

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Speaker 2: North Korea. If America has empty shelves.

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Speaker 1: That's a terrible look.

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Speaker 2: One more thing before I get to the interview with

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Speaker 2: John Tester and his podcast Partner in Crime, It said

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Speaker 2: Georgio a little thing about what's going on with Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: and we'll see. Look, I'm timestamping this Wednesday evening. You

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Speaker 2: never know what's going to happen. And by the time

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Speaker 2: you hear this twelve hours later when this video podcast

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Speaker 2: an audio podcast drops. But it's you know, I know

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Speaker 2: we've said this before, but the idea that the United

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Speaker 2: States of America is essentially taking Russia's asks and making

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Speaker 2: them our asks and strong arming Ukraine here is just

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Speaker 2: it's whiplash. It's really hard to fully wrap your head

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Speaker 2: around that the United States of America government is essentially

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Speaker 2: pro Russia right now on this. It's funny how the

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Speaker 2: negotiations are going. So one of the sticking points, obviously

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Speaker 2: a big one, is you know, giving up sovereignty, right,

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Speaker 2: and so it's in the idea that Ukraine would have

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Speaker 2: to wreck, you know, recognize Russia's sovereignty over Crimea. Well,

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Speaker 2: apparently Donald Trump has said no, no, no, no, Ukraine doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to recognize Russia's Russia's sovereignty over Crimea. It's just

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Speaker 2: the United States that plans to do it. And as

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Speaker 2: if that somehow that technicality is supposed to be reassuring

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Speaker 2: to the Ukrainian said, don't worry. You don't have to

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Speaker 2: recognize that Russia, that Crimea belongs to Russia.

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Speaker 1: Just we will, and the Europeans don't have to do this.

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Speaker 1: We will.

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Speaker 2: It's a weird thing to draw a line on, and

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Speaker 2: it's a weird distinction because unfortunately or fortunately, however you

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Speaker 2: want to look at it. Once the United States does

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Speaker 2: recognize some countries hold on land, other countries usually follow suit. Now,

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Speaker 2: it didn't work with Gulf of America, right, I think

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Speaker 2: the only entity in the world that's going to call

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Speaker 2: it Gulf of America are essentially Rhonda Santis and Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: But if we're the ones recognizing Russia's hold on crime

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Speaker 2: a lot of other countries will likely do that too.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to pause right here. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I got a special treat for you this week. We're

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Speaker 2: going to have an extra pod this week, So this

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Speaker 2: is not the last you will hear from me this week.

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Speaker 2: We got something more coming later in the week. And

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Speaker 2: you think, well, today's Thursday, what does that mean. That's right,

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Speaker 2: We're going to have a Friday special, so be on.

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Speaker 1: The lookout for that.

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Speaker 2: Let me sneak in a break, enjoy my conversation with

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Speaker 2: John Tester and Riza Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited for this set of guests.

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Speaker 2: Joining me now is the former senator from Montana, John

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Speaker 2: Tester and his podcast co host Mariza Giorgio, longtime journalists

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Speaker 2: also from Montana. They both are Montana in the podcast

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Speaker 2: is called Grounded.

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Speaker 1: With John Tester and Marisa Giorgio. Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Guys, great to be here, Thanks for having us. Check appreciated.

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Speaker 2: So Senator, let me start with you. All right, how

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Speaker 2: why are you doing a podcast? I say this because

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Speaker 2: there's it is. You don't see a lot of former

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Speaker 2: electeds jumping into this space as quickly as say Marita

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Speaker 2: and I are as former, as recovering journalists whatever we

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Speaker 2: want to call ourselves these days. Right, What's been the

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Speaker 2: what was the interest on your level?

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Speaker 4: So I'm not a journalist. I'm a I'm a farmer

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Speaker 4: and a US Senator. I'm a policy guy. When the

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Speaker 4: election happened and I was unemployed, the journalists that I

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Speaker 4: respect a lot in Montana emailed me and said, hey,

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Speaker 4: would you interested in doing a podcast? And I thought

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Speaker 4: about it, and I thought you know, one of the

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Speaker 4: things I think is always a challenge is where do

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Speaker 4: you go to get information that's good information so you

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Speaker 4: can a good decision? And I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 4: Maurice's solid's she's good at what she does, one of

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Speaker 4: the best in the state of Manchana, and why not

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Speaker 4: let's give it a go. And if it you know,

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Speaker 4: it's one of these things that if it bombs, it bombs,

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Speaker 4: and we'll we'll figure out something else. But if it

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Speaker 4: works and it goes and it's valuable and people think

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Speaker 4: it's a good source of information and we can get

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Speaker 4: good people on it, it's worthwhile to do so that

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Speaker 4: that's pretty much why we did it. Besides that, it's

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Speaker 4: turned out to be a lot of fun, you know,

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Speaker 4: and an opportunity to actually deliver some information, get some

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Speaker 4: opinions from folks that that that we trust, and and

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Speaker 4: it's it's been solid, it's been good. It's been fun.

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Speaker 1: Mari Sai. What do you like best about it? Right?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've got you know, my whole the way

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Speaker 2: I evangelize on it is I just was done with

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Speaker 2: the five to ten minute interview, and you know, look,

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Speaker 2: John and I have done plenty of those five to

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Speaker 2: ten minute interviews before and it's it's one topic if

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Speaker 2: you're lucky, or it's the then there's always the hey,

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Speaker 2: I got to ask this question because it's.

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Speaker 1: In the news. Maybe he'll make news.

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Speaker 2: And Chunction will be pissed off or whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: right Like, I know, what I enjoy now is the

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Speaker 2: longer conversation where you can have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: that fond but at the same time get some context.

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Speaker 2: What's been thet forwarding part of it for you so far?

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Speaker 5: And I don't have somebody in my ear saying no,

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Speaker 5: no cut, cut. If we don't have time, I'll say

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Speaker 5: one more or one more. I mean, ask anybody who's

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Speaker 5: ever worked with me, whether it's you know, on my

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Speaker 5: former show when we were doing live interviews or out

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Speaker 5: in the field. I'm always trying to, you know, stretch

431
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 5: the interview longer because I always have more questions ask

432
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 5: and John we'll see this, you know, when we're going through,

433
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 5: and I'll send him a list of all my questions.

434
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 5: And I think I probably get about I don't know

435
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 5: a fifth of the questions I always want to ask.

436
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 5: But I think you're absolutely right, especially right now, so

437
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 5: many people consume news by just reading headlines or blurbs,

438
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 5: and they don't actually fully understand things like the context

439
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 5: of things and why it matters and the history of it.

440
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 5: And so to be able to have guests on and

441
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 5: actually dig in and there's no there's no time limit,

442
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 5: and we can say go as long as you want

443
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 5: if it's long or you know, goes a little bit

444
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 5: what God made editors, Yeah, we can, we can cut

445
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 5: it down. But I mean we had an interview. I

446
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 5: guess it was earlier this week. It feels like a

447
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 5: few weeks ago. But with this, you know, economist from

448
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 5: the University of Michigan, Justin Wolfers, who also goes by

449
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 5: fed Lasso sometimes, and he was.

450
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: Fabulous, funny look as a dad over fifty, I like

451
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: a good dad pun you know, which is hence the podcast.

452
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm all fed Lasso.

453
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 5: I'm in fed Lasso. Was so entertaining and I've had

454
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 5: more feedback. The two I've had the most feedback on

455
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 5: are fed Lasso and Sam Donaldson because we actually got

456
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 5: into off with that.

457
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: And Dalton also a rancher also.

458
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 5: Yeah Mexico, that's right, So you know, we were able

459
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 5: to actually get in and have conversations that matter. And

460
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 5: if two people write me and say, wow, I learned

461
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 5: so much, or if my if my best friend calls

462
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 5: me and says, I never heard anybody do that, and

463
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 5: she consumes, you know more news than I do, that

464
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 5: feels great because because it feels like we're actually doing

465
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 5: a service and helping people and not just sitting here.

466
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: The thing that I'm excited about about what you two

467
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: are doing is, you know, my biggest complaint about right

468
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: now how how media is organized is essentially I would

469
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 2: argue that everybody you know thinks of of sort of

470
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: the the information had sectors is Washington, New York, LA,

471
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: and San Francisco, right, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street, and

472
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: the political capital. And there's a lot of people that

473
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: make a ton of money just off of making sure

474
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: they're covering those for giant tent poles of culture, right,

475
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: whether it's Axios right. And I say this with no

476
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: good for them, like it's a good business. But the

477
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: biggest thing that I think we're missing, John Tester is

478
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: and I think why people feel so disconnected from the

479
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: culture these days outside of those four ten poles is

480
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: is hearing from people from other areas of the country.

481
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: We don't have enough geographic diversity in the information ecosystem.

482
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: It's I'm very hopeful having two Montanas here to help

483
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: talk to the rest of America. I mean, I'm not

484
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: trying to butter you up here, but I assume that's

485
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: something you probably hear complaints about all the time from

486
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: your friends and neighbors.

487
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 4: Oh. Absolutely, no. I mean, look, I think the area

488
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 4: between the two mountain ranges tend to be forgotten about

489
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: a lot. And we're both products of who we are.

490
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 4: I'm a product of of rural America. Some would say

491
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 4: it's even frontier America. And that's the that's that's your

492
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: approach I'm going to take. When we're talking about issues,

493
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 4: and I think it's really important to talk about issues.

494
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 4: But then, especially at this moment in time, people want

495
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: to know how they can be effective as citizens and

496
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 4: how they how they can make sure their voices are

497
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 4: being heard. And so whether we're talking about tariffs, or

498
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: whether we're talking about public lands or whatever the many

499
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 4: issues we've talked about, we usually try to end up

500
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 4: the show saying, well, now here's what you can do.

501
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 4: And by the way, setting on your hands is not

502
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 4: an option here. If you feel you feel that these

503
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 4: issues are important to you, then you got to you

504
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 4: got to be part of the part of the ecosystem.

505
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 4: But no, there's no doubt about it, Chuck. We are

506
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 4: going to bring a perspective. Some would call it rural

507
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 4: America perspective. I'll just call it a perspective that's not

508
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 4: an East or West coast perspective uh to uh to

509
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 4: the issues that are out there we're to talk about.

510
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, I wanted you to

511
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: look your your product to local news and nationals. You've

512
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 2: sort of you've had your foot and you know, how

513
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: would you describe the state of the local news ecosystem

514
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 2: in Montana right now?

515
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 5: I mean, Montana still has a pretty strong local news community.

516
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 5: However we see it being chipped away at all the time.

517
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 5: We have news deserts. I mean, need to talk to

518
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 5: Senator Tester. His closest to Montana city, Great fall As,

519
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: used to have the biggest, strongest, best newspaper in the state,

520
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 5: and I think now they have one reporter and so

521
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 5: it's you know, I know you've talked about this a

522
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 5: lot in these news deserts. That's a really huge issue

523
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: when we talk about our country and where we are

524
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: at and the breaking down of just basic knowledge and

525
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 5: understanding of things, because if people don't have access to

526
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 5: local news and what's going on in their communities, they're

527
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 5: getting it from either social media or you know, politicized

528
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 5: radio programs that are broadcasts in their communities. And so

529
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 5: I think that's led to a huge polarization in this country.

530
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: But I'll also say, you know, similar to what Senator

531
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 5: Tuster said, part of the reason we're here is that

532
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 5: so many people in the middle felt ignored, felt like

533
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 5: they weren't hurt.

534
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's a lot of middle, a

535
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: lot of middle. When I say middle, it's sometimes middle

536
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: of the country geographically. Sometimes it's middle of the ideological spectrum.

537
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: Right, it's people that.

538
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 5: That economic class, right, yeah.

539
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: Middle class. Right.

540
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: The middle is such a you know it is I do.

541
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: It is an intentional catch all word for me when

542
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: I say middle, I'm always thinking. You know, I always

543
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: joke I was born and raised in Miami, but my

544
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: father grew up in Waterloo, Iowa. And I always say

545
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: I was raised Ioland you know, he almost insisted my

546
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: savings account as a kid. The first savings account I

547
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: got was at the Waterloo Savings alone because my father

548
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: just wanted me to have this Iowa connection, even though

549
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: again there are a lot of Todds buried in Iowa,

550
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: but there are not many that still live there today.

551
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: But it was really important to my dad that I

552
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: have that Midwestern grounding. So I've always had this belief that, hey,

553
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: I've got to talk to the middle right, I've got

554
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: to talk to the middle of America. I've always been

555
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: very comfortable, frankly, sometimes more comfortable thinking of myself as

556
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: a Midwesterner, even though I've never been there, and it

557
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: used to be where all things were decided elections absolutely see,

558
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: and I don't know what happened.

559
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 5: Well, And I grew up in Minneapolis suburbs of Minneapolis,

560
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 5: so I'm a Midwesterner. I moved out to Montana twenty

561
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 5: two years ago, very similar values, and I just think

562
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 5: so many people feel left behind, and that's part of

563
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: the reason, you know. I was laid off from Scripts

564
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 5: News in November, but we had a nightly national show

565
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 5: that originated in Missoula, Montana, the first ever, and that

566
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 5: was really cool to people because we did bring perspectives

567
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 5: that you didn't here coming out of DC, New York

568
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 5: or LA, and so I think can't be ignored.

569
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: You know, John Tester, I always used to joke if

570
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: that I wanted Congress to rotate where they held sessions.

571
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: So you know, first of all, part of it would

572
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: be like if you if you always moved Congress, then

573
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: the lobbyists would always have to pick up stakes and

574
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: go move with them. So maybe you could stay a

575
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: half step ahead of the lobbying community. But the point

576
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: really was this. I always said, if if Wichita, Kansas

577
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: where the media center of the world, I promise you

578
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: the news media would cover religion and ag issues differently.

579
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: But because we're in the media capital is New York City,

580
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: for instance, on the issues of the Second Amendment, I

581
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: understand where a New York perspective comes from on the

582
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: Second Amendment. And I also have an uncle who lives

583
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: in the mountains of Arkansas who will tell you thirty

584
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: minutes before a first responder is going to come to

585
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: his house and he's going to have to deal you know,

586
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: he needs a firearm for a variety of reasons. And

587
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: where the news media is located can really warp a perspective, right.

588
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you're you're exactly right. I mean we're

589
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 4: we're taping this show in a recent Florida State shooting

590
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 4: just happened where two people lost their lives, so got

591
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: heard and you know, that kind of stuff just rips

592
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 4: your guts out. But I'll also say this, you're exactly

593
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: right from a from a protect your home perspective in

594
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: rural areas, Man, it takes a long time just because

595
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: of distance, no other reason, the police.

596
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: No, that's all it is. It's not anything else, right.

597
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 4: Just distance. It just takes a while for folks to

598
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: get there. So you need to have some way to

599
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 4: protect your homes. But that does not mean any stent

600
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: that anybody out there that's a gun owner should should

601
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 4: say you know that Florida State shooting needs to happen.

602
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: It doesn't need to happen, and you can still protect

603
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: yourselves and you can try to stop those kind of

604
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 4: things from happening. But you're exactly right. And I've never

605
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 4: even even thought about that that if the center of

606
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 4: the universe was Omaha, Nebraska, right or anywhere else in

607
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 4: the middle, You're right, the perspective would be different. And

608
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: probably noticeably different.

609
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: Quite quite honestly, No, I mean I've thought Congress moved.

610
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: I mean I I'm dead serious about that. Why should

611
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: Congress always convene in Washington.

612
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, look, I would applaud that effort when I

613
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: was a US centator because it's two thousand miles from

614
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 4: here Washington.

615
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: They had not many non stops from Bozeman in DC,

616
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: although although you know, if Taylor Sheridan gets his way,

617
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: keeps making the place so popular, there might be a

618
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: lot of non stops.

619
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 4: But that's that's true, but that's Bozman and Bozeman's still

620
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: four and a half hours from where I live, so

621
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: I still have a shot to get to get to

622
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 4: the airport that has the non stops. But the bottom

623
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: line is is that you're right from a from a

624
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 4: news perspective, the areas that are more or more urban,

625
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 4: more versus urban get reported on, but quite frankly don't

626
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 4: don't get reported on nearly as much as they probably should.

627
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 4: And because of that, I might add, political people tend

628
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 4: to pit urban versus rural all the day when we

629
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 4: have the same challenges out there that have the same

630
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 4: challenges for the most part, with the exception of distance.

631
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 4: We all want to be able to, you know, have

632
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: good healthcare and put food on the table, and have

633
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 4: a good job and be able to send their kids

634
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 4: to college all that stuff.

635
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 2: No, I mean it goes to people want to be

636
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: able to make a living living in New York City

637
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: and be able to make ends meet. And people want

638
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: to be able to have the choice to live in

639
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: Missoula and make their in and be able to make

640
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: their I mean, I think that's that's very fair. I

641
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: want to move shift this question a little bit to

642
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: get to your your most recent career, and frankly, Mariza,

643
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: I'm curious if your take on this, and I'm going

644
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: to start with you on this. So one of my

645
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: theories as to why we are so, you know, sort

646
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 2: of the this is sort of a chicken and egg question.

647
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: The concentration of power in Washington these days, and the

648
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: concentration of power to the presidency itself. I think this

649
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 2: has created this massive trickle down effect. So, for instance,

650
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: in our world, Maritza of journalism, twenty years ago, my

651
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 2: advice to young journalists was go cover a state capital,

652
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: then come to Washington. Ten years ago, my advice to

653
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: young journalists who wanted to be a White House correspondent

654
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: or cover Congress. Was well, then come to Washington. Now

655
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of trade publications. Get a job at

656
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: roll Call, get a job at Punchable, get a job

657
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: at Politico, which is really actually unhealthy. Right, And I'll

658
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: get to that in a minute. But did you find

659
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: that that the poll to Washington was really great? That

660
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: everybody kept in your world kept wanting to figure out

661
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: how to get east.

662
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 5: You know, I don't know if it's necessarily to Washington,

663
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 5: but everybody in my role definitely wanted to move move up,

664
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 5: and move up and move up.

665
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: You know.

666
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 5: I started in Missoula, Montana, which is a market where

667
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 5: you cut your teeth and you make mistakes and you

668
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 5: learn a lot. And I think that if you go

669
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 5: straight to these big cities, I think you miss out

670
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 5: on something. I mean that for me. You know, local

671
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 5: news is so important not only for that reason because

672
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 5: you learn so much, but you learn how to form connections,

673
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 5: and you learn how to be part of a community.

674
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 5: And people generally trust their local news personalities more than

675
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 5: they trust all network rita.

676
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: I don't think we've ever had I say this national

677
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: media has never had the trust. Yeah, our trust was

678
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: handed to us by our local colleagues, because the local

679
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: journalist was somebody if you didn't know the local journalists,

680
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: maybe your kid knew their kid, maybe your friend knew

681
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: their spouse, you knew something about and you're like, well,

682
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: you know, they're one of us, and they seem to

683
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: reporting this all right, they've confirmed with the national like

684
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: it was a it really was. And then when you

685
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: get rid of local, when a man named Craig thought

686
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: classified ought to be free, YadA YadA YadA, Donald Trump

687
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: became president, it is it cut out. I always said

688
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 2: national media's best character references.

689
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 5: Well that's a big YadA YadA YadA. I'll just say that.

690
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 5: But yes, I you know, I live in this community.

691
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 5: I stop and talk to people at the grocery store

692
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 5: and at my son's school and you know, out on

693
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 5: the streets, and so yeah, when people feel like they

694
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 5: can come up to you and talk to you and

695
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 5: you're accessible and also you have an understanding of the

696
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 5: issues and why they matter, I mean that, I really think,

697
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 5: unless you're covering Capitol Hill, so many of our giant,

698
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 5: giant breaking news stories originate locally. And then the networks

699
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 5: pick them up and they run with it. But my

700
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 5: biggest story that propelled me had to do with tests are.

701
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 5: Actually his office sent out just an email saying, we're

702
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 5: hearing reports that maybe the USPS is pulling up these

703
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 5: blue collection boxes. It was right before the twenty twenty election,

704
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 5: and I was working on a story with USPS anyway,

705
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 5: So I reached out to one of my local informants

706
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 5: here in Missoula, Montana, and they sent me a list

707
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 5: of all of these addresses that were slated for removal. Now,

708
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 5: if I sent that list to anybody in New York

709
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 5: or DC, they would have no idea what those addresses meant.

710
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 5: But I could look at them and say, oh, well,

711
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 5: that's the main post office in Missoula, that's in front

712
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 5: of the University of Montana, that's in front of target.

713
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 5: What is happening? And that story went gangbusters, and you know,

714
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 5: we reversed federal policy by the end of the day

715
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 5: because of you know, thanks to our congressional delegation, including

716
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 5: Senator Pester and Rachel Maddow amplified it as well that night.

717
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 5: But without a local reporter, you know, just that story

718
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 5: digging into it, it would never have gone where it went.

719
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 5: And I think we can say that for so many

720
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 5: of these huge stories that exps.

721
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: Flowed John Tester.

722
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: I had a congressman, now former congressman's name's Jake Laturner.

723
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: This is a Republican from rural Kansas. He was in

724
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: Kansas's second district. Now he retired thirty six, and he

725
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: chose to not seek reelection. Part of it is he's

726
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: not he's a different kind of Republican. Okay, he's not.

727
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: He's more of the Paul Ryan wing of the party.

728
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, he came up in that version

729
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: of conservatism. Is not, as he said, he's not a

730
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: Marjorie Taylor Green type of Republican. But he said he

731
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: didn't have anybody in his congressional district covering what he did. Literally,

732
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 2: congressional trees were falling in the district, in his congressional forest,

733
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: and no one was there to say. I mean, all

734
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: he had was just being able to email his constituents

735
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: or text or whatever he was called. But there was

736
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: nobody there to verify what he was doing. Nobody there

737
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: to say, hey, yeah, you know, explaining what Washington was

738
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: doing for that district. And we sit here and wonder

739
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: why people don't know what Washington does for them, And

740
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 2: I would answer, because there's no more local journalists telling

741
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: them what Washington is doing for them. Has this been

742
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: your experience?

743
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

744
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, I'm going to tell you that I think that.

745
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 4: And I've been involved to state politics and federal politics

746
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 4: since ninety eight, so a little over twenty five years.

747
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: And I've seen the change, right, the biggest.

748
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 4: Change, the absolute biggest change. We always had young TV

749
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 4: reporters that were looking to go to bigger markets. That's

750
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: always been. But what we always had is we had

751
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 4: seasoned reporters working for print media. That isn't happening anymore.

752
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 4: Those season political reporters are gone. And those political reporters

753
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 4: not only reported on what was going on Washington, they

754
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 4: reported on what was going on locally, and they held

755
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 4: us all accountable.

756
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: And they were the local historian in some way. They

757
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 2: knew more about that stuff than anybody.

758
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: Right.

759
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they had the corporate memory to go be able

760
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 4: to go back and institute memory. I should say, you

761
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 4: can be able to go back and be able to

762
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: report and say, this is what happened back in nineteen

763
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 4: seventy nine and this was and it's no different or

764
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 4: by the way, these guys are screwing up because they're

765
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 4: doing this, and that accountability is critically important for a

766
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 4: democracy to work and work well. Without that accountability, you've

767
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: got public servants that are out there doing stuff that

768
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 4: they shouldn't be doing and nobody knows about it, and

769
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: it's not to the best interest of their constituents and

770
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 4: is certainly not the best interest of democracy.

771
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: Let me go to your side of things, though, on

772
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: the governance side, right, which is this decision, this concentrate

773
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 2: going back to my focus on the concentration of power

774
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 2: not just in Washington, but with the executive branch itself.

775
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: Look at this fight over tariffs, look at this fight

776
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: over due process when it comes to immigration, look at

777
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: this fight over pretty much all the fights that the

778
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: Trump administration is picking. And we're sitting here arguing about

779
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: the checks and balances, and it's judiciary right now versus

780
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: the executive and we're all screaming in our heads where

781
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: the hell is Congress? And I'll be honest, going, let's

782
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: just the twenty first century. We've had all Republican control

783
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: of the trifecta for about three years and you know

784
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 2: post nine to eleven, and that handed a bunch of

785
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: power to the executive. We had three years with Obama

786
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: and that handed more power to the executive. We had

787
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: another two year stint with Trump, more power to the executive,

788
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: dido with Biden, more power to the executive now again,

789
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: and all it's done is I think made the country

790
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: think that the presidency is a be all, end all

791
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 2: fight and Congress has.

792
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: Just given up. What I don't get is collectively why

793
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: members of Congress are comfortable giving up all this power.

794
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 4: It shouldn't be. They absolutely shouldn't be. And you contributed

795
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 4: to this a lot of things. I actually contributed to

796
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 4: campaign finance and the amount of money that's coming into

797
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 4: these But that's probably a different copic for a different

798
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 4: show that we can talk all day about. But the

799
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: bottom line is that we need Robert C. Byrd back

800
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: in Congress. Robert C. Bird would be going crazy right

801
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: now with Congress giving up, giving up the responsibility and saying,

802
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 4: go ahead, do it, executive order. We're not going to

803
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 4: pass a law that either does this or pass a

804
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 4: lot of that says no. And I watched you know,

805
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 4: you watched the Sunday shows, and I've watched many people

806
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 4: in leadership and stand up and go, well, you know

807
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 4: the tariff thing. Absolutely, the president has the power to

808
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 4: do this. The only reason the president has a power

809
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 4: to do this because you guys aren't calling bullshit off.

810
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: That's why it's it's he does. It's because you know,

811
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 4: I love this anecdote. As somebody said to me, Well,

812
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 4: the reason why Congress was comfortable handing tariff, this tariff

813
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 4: power to the president is because Congress, these leaders that

814
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 4: the ideas stem from this center. Well, we'll never the president,

815
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 4: whoever it is, will always be more of a free

816
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 4: trader than Congress. Whoops, well, yeah, that kind of screwed up.

817
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: That philosophy doesn't work today.

818
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: And by the way I get it, I would have

819
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: agreed with that analysis in twenty fourteen.

820
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 4: But you know what has made this country, what I

821
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 4: think has made this country great my entire lifetime, is

822
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 4: that Congress hasn't just rolled over all the time that

823
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 4: they've actually challenged the president. They've actually had the debate

824
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 4: on the Senate for the House and did their jobs.

825
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 4: As a forefathers set it up what we've seen, and

826
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 4: it didn't happen just with the Trump presidency. As you

827
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 4: just pointed out, it's been no this is.

828
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: A twenty first century phenomenon item going on.

829
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 4: And the truth is is that it's we're all more concerned.

830
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 4: And I think it's because of campaign finance, about raising

831
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 4: the money to run for elections rather than the job

832
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 4: we were elected to, and that's to make sure we

833
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 4: put in good policy that allows our kids and grandkids

834
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 4: to be successful and keep this country a democracy.

835
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: All Right.

836
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: I want to talk about this campaign finance thing though,

837
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: because I just I'll be honest, I'm I don't know

838
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: if you've or Alex Gibney is doing an episodic serial

839
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: now on dark Money for HBO, and I'm going to

840
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: be interviewing him in a future podcast. And so I

841
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: was watching the first couple of episodes and he and

842
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: I remember one of the there's a documentary about five

843
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: years ago that was about dark money in Montana and

844
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: how that it was a Montana was the rare example

845
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: where there was actually a bipartisan effort to try to

846
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: at least limit dark money in state races.

847
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Federal races is a different story. We'll get to that.

848
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: In state races and I'd love for you to share,

849
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: because there's a culture in Montana that goes back and

850
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: I kind of think we're sort of repeating this right,

851
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: But it was the copper industry and it stopped in

852
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: the century, right nineteenth to twentieth century. That really and

853
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: we may be having a repeat right now with the

854
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: broligarchs as we're dealing with now.

855
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: But what about that era seemed to cement skepticism of

856
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: money in politics more so in a Montana frankly than

857
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: any other oral state.

858
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 4: So so to go back just a little bit, as

859
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 4: you've already pointed out, Montana was the state that mined

860
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 4: the copper that wired this country. And one hundred years ago,

861
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 4: a little over one hundred years ago, now, those dudes

862
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 4: had a lot of money, the copper things. They had

863
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: a lot of money, and they they ran, They ran

864
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 4: this state. Quite honestly. It wasn't the aggies on, wasn't

865
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 4: the cattle guys. It wasn't those copper guys. And it

866
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: came down to a point where when when when legislators

867
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,959
Speaker 4: picked the senator, they went in with the bag of cash,

868
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 4: literally went in with the bag of cash and said, here,

869
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 4: vote for this dude, you get this money, and they

870
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 4: did it, and they got it accomplished. That resulted in

871
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: the people going, the people going, this is boloney, We're

872
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 4: going to make sure this doesn't app agan and they

873
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 4: passed voter initiatives to stop it and had some of

874
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 4: the best campaign finance because it put caps that made

875
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 4: everything transparent.

876
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: And you guys had the toughest campaign finance laws in

877
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: the country for the contribe.

878
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 4: Yeh, because it was being abused over one hundred years ago.

879
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 4: That's why the people said, this isn't how it should work.

880
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 4: My voice isn't being heard anymore. It's just the rich

881
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 4: dudes its voice of being heard. And it happened, and

882
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 4: it worked, and it worked well until Scisens United and

883
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 4: McCutcheon and all those court decisions came down to court

884
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 4: that the Supreme Court did that I argue maybe some

885
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 4: of the worst that they've ever done. And it has

886
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 4: resulted in in Valeo before that in nineteen seventy six

887
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 4: where they said money equal speech went in fact, it might,

888
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 4: but it also says that if you've got a lot

889
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 4: of money, your speech is a hello, a lot louder

890
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 4: than if you don't have money. And so it's really

891
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 4: skewed the system and what has resulted by the way,

892
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 4: a campaign like mine, my first one in two thousand

893
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 4: and six, all in both sides, primary everything, twenty seven

894
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 4: million bucks. This last one I just got done over

895
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 4: two undred and seventy five million dollar.

896
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 2: You were not short of cash either, Okay, that's born

897
00:47:58,760 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: the other guy.

898
00:47:59,239 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 4: We still lost.

899
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 2: And not only that, I remember, I don't I don't

900
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: want to tell tales out of school. But there was

901
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 2: a consultant helping you that said it would be more

902
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 2: efficient if we just bought.

903
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: The radio stations. Yeah, I mean it was.

904
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: Sot and and I've sort of like half kitted it.

905
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: It was like if it had been legal, you might

906
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: have done it. Like it was like you guys were

907
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: going to violate the law. But it was like, that's

908
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: how much money essentially both sides had available to them

909
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: they could have bought. And radio still is an important

910
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: aspect of communicating, and in.

911
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 4: Rural areas is just a huge area. It was so

912
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 4: much money. And this has happened actually ever since two

913
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 4: thousand and six. TV stations run onto your budget seconds.

914
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 4: Why because these races come up and they make enough money.

915
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 5: I walked in.

916
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 4: They had a brand new set, and they said, boy,

917
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 4: this is nice. They said, thank you.

918
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh it is the house that John Tester built

919
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: without you turning those Senate races into swing stay swing races.

920
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 4: Right, that's right. They're they're really unhappy that that bullet

921
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 4: can test run around anymore. I'll tell you that because

922
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 4: I owe you.

923
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 5: Thank you for paying me.

924
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but then lose it now, you know, we

925
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: see what happened. You know, come on, you may need

926
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: to go run again so we could pay for these

927
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: podcasts there, John, come on that.

928
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: Uh Maritza, I'm curious.

929
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: I'm I'm gonna be honest, I'm I'm numb to money,

930
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: right as somebody who's been a political reporter and a

931
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: political analyst, and you know, I come, I come at

932
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: campaign finance issues. There's this line that Jeff Goldbloom says

933
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: in Jurassic Park. The old man in that movie claims

934
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: that he's got all the dinosaurs.

935
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: They're all female. They're not going to breed.

936
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: Don't worry, they're not going to breed, and and and

937
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 2: Goldbloom has this line, life finds a way.

938
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: Well, the cynic in me says, because.

939
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: We've passed every time Congress has tried to pass a

940
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: campaign finance reform, and I think that with the various

941
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: versions of it were attempts.

942
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: All it did was create a process to find a loophole.

943
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: Right, packs the original packs post Watergate, we're supposed to

944
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: actually be reforms, right, this was a way just sort

945
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: of okay, give everybody a little bit of a say,

946
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: within reason. You're giving corporations an opportunity, but it's with

947
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: their employees, right, and it gets abused McCain fine gold, right.

948
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 2: And instead, what McCain fine gold created was all these

949
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: lawyers who figured out five oh one c's in you know,

950
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 2: threes and fours at the time.

951
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 1: Now, of course it's the five ozho one.

952
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 2: I think it's the five oh one the c fours

953
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 2: that are the true dark money aspects. So I'm a

954
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: little bit cynical. Do you think it's possible to get

955
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: the public animated about campaign fun because I'll tell you

956
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: it's one of those issues when you when you put

957
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: it importance, is it a voting issue? It's not a

958
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: voting issue. It's not we aren't voting on this issue.

959
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: How curious what it would take to get people to

960
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 2: vote in the issue.

961
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 5: I have heard people though, you know, I did a

962
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 5: whole thing with school lunch debt. And you think about

963
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 5: all the kids who are being shamed or punished or

964
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 5: denied lunch at school because they can't afford to pay

965
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 5: their school lunch debt. Right, and then you talk about

966
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 5: the kind of money that sent our testers race race,

967
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 5: And when you start to compare that and those two

968
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 5: things with people, they do get mad, like, think of

969
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 5: everything that money could do for this country, actually do

970
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 5: things instead of just putting it towards people who say

971
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 5: and promise they were going to do these things. And

972
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 5: I also think in a state like Montana, you know,

973
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 5: like John said, you walk into a TV station and

974
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 5: they have a brand new set. You can see that

975
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 5: you come to Montana during an election cycle, the kids

976
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 5: on the playground at my son's school literally were calling

977
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 5: each other shady she he's because that's how much the

978
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 5: ads play. I mean, that was it was just we

979
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 5: can't escape it. You can't escape it. And so I

980
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 5: think if you say, hey, you're sick of those ads,

981
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 5: because people do, they talk about it the entire cycle.

982
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 5: You know, at the end of the day, sadly, I

983
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 5: think a lot of Americans care when it affects them, and.

984
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: Well, I agree with that.

985
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 2: It's always, but it's always after right, we're angry after

986
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 2: the fact. We can't believe you didn't stop this, right.

987
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: We tried to tell you didn't seem to care.

988
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 5: But I think warned you about them. You want to

989
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 5: stop turning on TV, in the radio and Instagram and

990
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 5: seeing an ad about John Tester Tim Sheehy. Guess what,

991
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 5: Here's how we do it. You want more of this

992
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 5: money to go to things that actually help your family,

993
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 5: Here's how we do it. I think it's just a

994
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 5: matter of explaining it. And I do think you're right.

995
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 5: We get you know, you say numbers, whether it's about money,

996
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 5: whether it's about the amount of people who are devastated

997
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 5: after a hurricane, and you hear a number and it's

998
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 5: just a number, and you don't think these are people.

999
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 5: This is actually a real thing. And I think that

1000
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 5: we need to do a better job in journalism and

1001
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 5: explaining that, like, no, no, this is not just a number.

1002
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 5: Think about the families, think about books and the thinks.

1003
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: Look, I've always thought we got to be it. We

1004
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: have to think of ourselves first. As educators. Marita, I've

1005
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: thought that the thing that I don't fully appreciate is

1006
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: how many people look to the media to learn something,

1007
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: not to be informed, just simply learn, And we don't

1008
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: do you know. I think about our fellow sports journalists

1009
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,959
Speaker 2: during the college football season. Every college football reporter took

1010
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 2: time to explain the college football playoff every time they

1011
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: wrote about the college football playoff.

1012
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: Do you know what we don't do?

1013
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 2: We don't explain the Supreme Court and its nine members,

1014
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: and we actually assume too much sometimes of the readers.

1015
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: So what do we do? It becomes self selecting. Those

1016
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 2: that are informed read our stories, those that feel like, well,

1017
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: I don't know if I know a lot about it,

1018
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: and I don't know that much about it. So it

1019
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: becomes if you're afraid you can't speak the language you

1020
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: get out out, well, then that we're screwing up. We

1021
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: need to speak them. I always say, we need to

1022
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: speak America.

1023
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 5: Yes, And I think, I mean that is part of

1024
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 5: the reason we are where we are and we have

1025
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 5: the extremes is because these candidates have learned what to

1026
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 5: say to reach people. But also, you're absolutely right, you know,

1027
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 5: a nod to my friend Jeff Golbloom, life doesn't find

1028
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 5: a way. And I have said this about you know

1029
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 5: everything though, if you think about we're talking today about fentanyl,

1030
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 5: fifteen years ago, all we talked about in Montana was

1031
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 5: myth That's all we talked about. And the thing is,

1032
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 5: we can talk about the drug all day long, but

1033
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 5: if we don't talk about the addiction and what causes

1034
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 5: the addiction, people have found ways to feed their addictions

1035
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 5: since the beginning of time. So today it's s fentanyl.

1036
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 5: But if we stop fentanyl, then what I just think

1037
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,919
Speaker 5: we need to talk more about, like what's causing these things?

1038
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 5: And that brings us back to our very first question,

1039
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 5: which is you can't do that in two minute soundbites

1040
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 5: or news sites.

1041
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: Sorry, John, you want to tell Yeah.

1042
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 4: The other thing I want to add is that people

1043
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: probably don't vote on issuere exactly right, Chuck. But I

1044
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 4: do think people are concerned about it, and not just Democrats,

1045
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 4: not just Republicans in a very bipartisan way. I think

1046
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 4: they see the negative parts. And one of the things

1047
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 4: that we're seeing right now is we're seeing nobody doing

1048
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 4: town hall meetings. They've been told don't do town hall meetings.

1049
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 4: What's the only time that you could really get a

1050
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 4: senator or a congressman to do a town hall meeting

1051
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 4: during election. Now they don't even have to do it.

1052
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 4: Then they just put the ads up and then they

1053
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 4: go underground and just let the ads do the talking.

1054
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 4: And it really I think people are getting sick of it.

1055
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 4: I really do. And I think there is going to

1056
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 4: be an opportunity, if handled correctly, to be able to

1057
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 4: make some ain't going to be able to fix it

1058
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 4: all on ones fail swoop, be able to make in

1059
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 4: the right direction, to put more transparency on this money

1060
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: and find out who's trying to influence your opinion on

1061
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 4: this election.

1062
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,959
Speaker 2: And I don't get why it is such a hard

1063
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: vote to be for transparency, Like I bet you know.

1064
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: I look.

1065
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: I believe if we created the NASCAR law right which said,

1066
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: all right, anybody that give writes you a check, I'm

1067
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 2: for unlimited for members of Congress. But if you write

1068
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 2: a check for every one hundred thousand dollars check you take,

1069
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 2: you've got to put that name literally on your jumpsuit

1070
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: in every TV ad, and you gotta the I approve

1071
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 2: I approved this message and it was paid for by

1072
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: Mariza Giorgio and Chuck Todd and John Tester and mobile

1073
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,959
Speaker 2: and exce on Mobile and you let.

1074
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: The chips fall where they may type of mindset.

1075
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: But disclosure seems to be the easiest first step. And

1076
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: yet that I mean, I love you know, there's nothing

1077
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 2: more fun than when Sheldon white House gets mad. I

1078
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: always say, you don't want to make Sheldon mad? Right,

1079
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 2: he gets so fired up on this topic, right, dark Buddy,

1080
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 2: like his Dark Buddy rants are probably epic. There's some

1081
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: of my favorite rants because he's not wrong. Why is

1082
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 2: this so difficult in the United States Center?

1083
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 4: It shouldn't be. I think part of it, Part of

1084
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 4: it has to do with I think the leadership on

1085
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 4: both sides. Yeah, I think this is an advantage for

1086
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 4: each one of their parties.

1087
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 2: Well, that you don't want to tie your art, that's

1088
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 2: always the it's yeah, but if we and it's always right,

1089
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: each side believes they're well.

1090
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: We'd love to do that, but they're not going to.

1091
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's right, and instead, let's just do the

1092
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 4: right thing. Let's just fix it. I mean. And by

1093
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 4: the way, and you know this, the candidates do have

1094
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 4: the caps. They do are supposed to be transparency. The

1095
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 4: problem is is the money and I would say most

1096
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,439
Speaker 4: of the money is flying through these c force which

1097
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 4: is total dark money.

1098
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: Don't and they get to define what topics you talk about.

1099
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 2: This is what drives me crazy. You the candidate have limitations, yep,

1100
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: but some super packed can come in here and say,

1101
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 2: you know what, we're going to make this election about

1102
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 2: breeding rabbits. And you know, we're just going to put

1103
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: so many ads about breeding rabbits that that's all anybody's

1104
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: going to talk about. It ain't going to be shady

1105
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 2: sehe It's going to be you know, rabid rabbits are

1106
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 2: running around. And that's the power of these super PACs.

1107
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: They can literally change the dialogue of the conversation in

1108
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: the campaign.

1109
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 4: So let me give you a real one that happened

1110
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 4: last election.

1111
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: Take in the weather.

1112
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to talk about men playing girls basketball.

1113
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 4: And I say to people, show me one example in

1114
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 4: the state of Montana where this is happening, Just one example.

1115
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 4: But no, that's what the ads on TV were about,

1116
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 4: for God's sake. So it wasn't about the national debt,

1117
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 4: it wasn't about climate change, it wasn't about what we're

1118
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 4: going to do in healthcare. It wasn't about education, none

1119
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 4: of that. It was about men playing women's sports. And

1120
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 4: by the way, it may happen somewhere in the country,

1121
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 4: but it's sure and shit doesn't happen here, we'd know

1122
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 4: about it.

1123
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a thesis about members of Congress, John,

1124
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: and I'm curious if you agree with this. I used

1125
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: to compare. You know, there's certain dog breeds that are

1126
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: really well behaved to an owner, like a lab. They'll

1127
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: be well behaved, but if they get around other labs,

1128
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: they stop, you know, they ignore their owner and they

1129
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: just start bark park park that most members of Congress,

1130
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: most senators individually are motivated. You may not agree with

1131
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: the motivating, you may not agree with the ideology, but

1132
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: they're motivated for the right reason in their head. And

1133
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 2: then there's something about the collective that makes everybody behave stupidly.

1134
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: I mean, is it that simple? I mean, would you

1135
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: because I always individually, frankly, it seems like everybody wants

1136
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 2: to be reasonable. Collectively it becomes unreasonable. No, that am

1137
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: I oversimplifying?

1138
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so. I think it's it's spot on.

1139
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 4: I think you know I might not look like it,

1140
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 4: but occasionally I go down at the gym and you

1141
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 4: find out all sorts of things that were going on

1142
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 4: in people's heads that were normal and then and they

1143
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 4: would say stuff that's absolutely crazy, and I think you're

1144
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 4: exactly right. That's why I say on the podcast many times,

1145
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 4: I know the people in the Senate and they're better

1146
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 4: people than this. They should be holding the president accountable.

1147
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 4: And I get emails and goes, how can you say

1148
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 4: these are good people when they're not holding them here?

1149
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 2: I get that too. I'm like, why do you why

1150
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 2: are you so nice to them? Like they are decent people?

1151
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: They're decent humans, that's right.

1152
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 4: And if you if you they know what's right, there's

1153
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 4: there's something else going on out there, whether they're worried

1154
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 4: about their safety or worried about political retality.

1155
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: I got to get you to react to Lisa Markowski.

1156
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 2: I mean that was such a that was such a

1157
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: Lisa Murkowski thing to say, meaning you know, she will

1158
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: speak the truth on that side of the aisle in

1159
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 2: ways that others others won't. Because, as I joke, when

1160
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: you can win a writing campaign and your last name

1161
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: is Markowski, that is the mic drop like, come at me,

1162
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got everybody to write my name in

1163
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: and it wasn't Smith Brother Okay, Markowski. So she is

1164
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 2: a little more shielded politically, but that was chilly what

1165
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: she said.

1166
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:06,439
Speaker 4: John, absolutely right, and Lisa is one of my favorite people.

1167
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 4: I worked with her on the infrastructure bill. She is solid.

1168
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I will tell you that trust is something

1169
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 4: that doesn't exist in Washington, d C. One the recent

1170
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 4: infrastructure bill. When is there was trust developed between the senators.

1171
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 4: We knew we weren't going to stab on another in

1172
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 4: the back. We were going to do the right things

1173
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 4: for the right reasons. That is Lisa Murkowski in a

1174
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 4: Nutshe do I agree with her all the time? Nope,

1175
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 4: But I don't agree with my wife all the time,

1176
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 4: So that's normal, Okay. The fact is she does what

1177
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 4: she thinks is right, and in this particular case, you're

1178
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 4: exactly right. I would love to get her on our

1179
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 4: podcast to talk about.

1180
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: What she's my Greta Garbo Brother, I the only person

1181
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: I could never book on my ten years and meet

1182
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: the press. Lisa Kowski is that at Sankowski.

1183
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: She's very wary of national media, and I get it,

1184
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 2: Like she's in Alaska. She spends a lot of time

1185
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 2: at Alaska media. It's not that she you know, she just

1186
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 2: doesn't want to. And I get it, right, what does

1187
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,439
Speaker 2: she get? What does she get? What does she get

1188
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: out of it? She'll just get arrows from Trump?

1189
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: I get it.

1190
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true on one hand. On the other hand,

1191
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 4: maybe maybe it will help her influence the other folks

1192
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 4: in the United States Senate to make sure the Senate

1193
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 4: acts like Robert C. Birdot, the Senate should act and

1194
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 4: hold the executive branch accountable. I think she sees it.

1195
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 4: You could tell it by the note that she put

1196
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 4: out and h and quite frankly, she's disturbed by it greatly.

1197
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 4: And and I would tell you I am too. By

1198
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 4: the way, there's there's barely verily a day that goes

1199
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 4: by that that I don't think about who's gonna who's

1200
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 4: gonna who's gonna do the job that they were elected

1201
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 4: to do? And should just Congress go home and we'll

1202
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 4: save one hundred and sixty five thousand bucks a year

1203
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 4: that we're paying these dudes because they're not doing anything.

1204
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 4: They're not paying, they're not doing what they need to do.

1205
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 4: That the forefathers had in mind and bet are reading

1206
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 4: the Constitution and looking for loopholes. They got to just

1207
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 4: read the Constitution period instead of carrying it around in

1208
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 4: your front pocket and bringing it out while they got

1209
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 4: the flag wrapped around it. Because by we're losing that

1210
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 4: right now. We're losing it right now, right, wrong or

1211
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 4: indifferent what's going on in Washington, d C. The forefathers

1212
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 4: would never recognize at this moment in time, Maritza.

1213
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: A lot of times I get the hey, the media

1214
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: needs to do X better, the media needs to do

1215
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: why better? And my reaction is sort of like, well,

1216
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: tell me what the media is and I'll tell you, you know, right,

1217
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: Like you know, the fact is Joe Rogan's a part

1218
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 2: of the media.

1219
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: What's he doing? Right?

1220
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 2: Why is this only? You know when they say media,

1221
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 2: what they really mean is what you and I have

1222
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 2: done for a living Maritza, right, which is quote unquote

1223
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 2: traditional media. And yet you know, I always look at it.

1224
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: It's like if if the people were trying to talk

1225
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: to won't listen to us, that's our we got to

1226
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 2: figure out how to talk.

1227
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1228
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: I feel like right now I'm talking to the people

1229
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: that want to.

1230
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 5: Be informed exactly that's exactly right. How do you reach

1231
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 5: those people again, it goes back to this trust thing

1232
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 5: and having people on the ground and leaving the studio

1233
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 5: and going out to these areas, going out to Montana,

1234
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 5: going out to Iowa, going out, you know, into Oklahoma,

1235
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 5: and talking to people about what really matters, and not

1236
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 5: just talking to them, more importantly listening to them, listening

1237
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 5: to what they're saying. You know, I think it's it's

1238
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 5: just a we're in a place that feels impossible for

1239
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 5: journalists because we are taught to fact check, we are

1240
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 5: taught to ask hard questions, and now we're in a

1241
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 5: place where the Associated Press, yeah bye, you're not coming

1242
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 5: to the White House.

1243
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this.

1244
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 2: Do you think I'm very frustrated by the lack of

1245
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 2: anger over the AP situation by the rest of the

1246
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 2: press Corps.

1247
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: I mean that the the thing that bothers.

1248
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 2: Me the most is the lack of support AP's been

1249
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 2: getting from its brothers and sisters in that press room.

1250
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 5: Solidarity. And that's what it is going to take, whether

1251
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 5: you're talking about the Press Corps or the United States Senate.

1252
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 5: I mean, that's how you beat this back. As you

1253
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 5: stand up to a bully and say no, no, no,

1254
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 5: we're not going to take this. No, no, no, You're

1255
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 5: not going to ignore due process. You're not going to

1256
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 5: ignore that this is congressional power and people aren't doing it.

1257
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 2: All right, I want to use our last few minutes

1258
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 2: here to geek out on Montana's star turn in everybody's

1259
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 2: TV screens.

1260
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: What do you I'm just curious.

1261
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: Do you hate when people like you know, us voyeurs

1262
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 2: of Taylor Sheridan all want to like, I mean, I

1263
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: had this conversation with Bullet Tester and Bullets like, oh,

1264
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 2: I love the he admitted, he goes, he loves going

1265
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: to the sound, he loves being invited there.

1266
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: What do you make of it?

1267
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 4: Do you do?

1268
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: You roll your eyes like I used to. I grew

1269
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: up in Miami. When Miami Vice happened, I.

1270
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 2: Used to roll my eyes a little bit, okay, because

1271
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 2: I'd be like, they're kind of glorifying parts of the

1272
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 2: you know, they're they're exaggerating this.

1273
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: You know it wasn't it isn't all that.

1274
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 2: I've never saw anybody dressed like Crockett or Tubs on

1275
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 2: the Miami Police force when I was when I was

1276
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 2: trying to run from the cops back in my youth.

1277
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 2: But what do you make of the portrayal of Montana

1278
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 2: by mister Sheridan.

1279
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 4: Let me tell you a quick story, Chuck. So, when

1280
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 4: I was a US cender, we did a little zoom

1281
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 4: broadcast with some folks from Viacom, which is a parent company. Yeah,

1282
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 4: And one of the people had a background of the

1283
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 4: barn with the brand on.

1284
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: It, yeah, the why Yeah.

1285
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 4: And a bunch of angus cattle in front of him.

1286
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 4: And you know, me, being the guy who's trying to,

1287
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 4: you know, break the ice, I said, jeez, you raised

1288
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 4: angus cattle and they said, no, that's the background for Yellowstone.

1289
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 4: And so what I've got to tell you is is

1290
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 4: that I've never watched the show. I've never watched it.

1291
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 4: I truly have never will. My brothers they they're much

1292
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 4: older than me, so they got nothing to do by teivanion.

1293
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 4: I love it. They absolutely love the show and or

1294
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 4: did love it. Uh. But as far as it's uh

1295
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 4: images of Montana. Look, it's bringing people in, it's helping

1296
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 4: with the economy, there's no doubt about that. But as

1297
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 4: far as it's accuracy, I really can't I doubt it's accurate,

1298
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 4: but I haven't really seen it.

1299
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: But wow, you don't watch it? Well, what do you watch?

1300
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: Come on, America wants to know what is? What is

1301
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: John Tester stream in these days?

1302
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 4: So I watch? Uh, I don't stray much at all.

1303
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 4: I watch a lot of sports. Okay, if I'm watching

1304
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 4: I watch a lot of sports. If I'm watching TV,

1305
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 4: it's usually baseball, basketball or football.

1306
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 3: All right, let's go, what's the base baseball team? Who's

1307
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,439
Speaker 3: your baseball ball? So when we first moved to the farm,

1308
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 3: Wednesday night was baseball night in Canada. This was before satellites.

1309
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 3: We got oh that's fridge TV, and quite frankly, the

1310
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 3: Expos or the Blue Jays were on every Wednesday night

1311
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 3: and I got a in the day.

1312
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 1: So are you a Gnats fan? Are you with me?

1313
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 1: Are you a Gnats fan?

1314
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 4: I'm as fan, but I never admit it. Okay, never

1315
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 4: wown Washington d C.

1316
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: So im Iley proud.

1317
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 2: You know in the Ring of Honor there they have

1318
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: Gary Carter, Andre Dawson and Tim Rains in the Nats

1319
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 2: Ring of Honor.

1320
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly as well they should and they had a

1321
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 4: great team. It's before I fully.

1322
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: All the ninety four team.

1323
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 4: Uh even before that. We're talking early eighties, We're talking, you.

1324
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: Know, eighty one.

1325
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 2: Look, Dodgers broke your heart. Rick Monday. Rick Monday hits

1326
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 2: the home run. That team was loaded. Now from Marty

1327
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 2: you had Dawson Carter, Oh my god, Roger Steve Rodgers, Right,

1328
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 2: wasn't that the picture?

1329
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1330
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: The picture it was they had. They had a fun

1331
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 4: team to watch, Let's just put it that way, because

1332
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 4: they had people who could steal faces. They had people

1333
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 4: can run the ball down. They play decent defense, Their

1334
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 4: pitching was good and it was fun to watch.

1335
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: And we're prepared for Canada be the fifty first state. Right, you're.

1336
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 4: Wrong, idea, bad idea. Those folks are friends of mine,

1337
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 4: and I want to keep them friends. And I'm not

1338
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 4: sure they want to be friends of mine right now

1339
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 4: because of all the crap that's going on.

1340
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 2: But it would be good for if they came into

1341
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 2: the country. That'd be good for Team Blued I mean Bluff.

1342
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 4: You're like, all right, I'd rather have them as our

1343
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 4: best friend and neighbor and keep working with them as

1344
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 4: we have in the past, because they they're good people

1345
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 4: and they deserve to be treated better than this.

1346
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: Sure, Yellowstone Love. Yeah, come on, well, how do you

1347
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: feel about it.

1348
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 5: I've actually only watched one half of the first episode,

1349
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 5: but it is films where I live in Missoula, and

1350
01:09:58,200 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 5: if you come out, I'll take you get all the

1351
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 5: places where you know, the diner, where was it a

1352
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 5: deputy that was shot and killed? That's a big.

1353
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,719
Speaker 1: A lot of violence. It's a pretty violent show.

1354
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 5: That's the thing is that what I know, I know

1355
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 5: generally about it, and people literally ask me, like, do

1356
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 5: you just do people just disappear and they kill people

1357
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 5: all the time, Like, no, we don't take people to

1358
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 5: the train station. That's that's not a regular part of life.

1359
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 5: But what they do get right is that we do

1360
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 5: have this battle between wealthy people moving in and Native

1361
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 5: Montana's and so they do get that part right. But

1362
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 5: the irony is that if the show is drawing more

1363
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 5: wealthy people into our state to buy property.

1364
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:46,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Marita, Giorgio, John Tester, the podcast is grounded.

1365
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: I love it. This was a lot of fun. Let's

1366
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: keep doing it.

1367
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely, thank you, all right, thanks guys.

1368
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: Well I hope you enjoy.

1369
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 2: Uh Tester and Giorgio there and go like and subscribe

1370
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: to their podcast. They've had some interesting and in fact,

1371
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 2: they just had an interesting interview with Chris van Hollen.

1372
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: Let's just say the tester roll of X gets.

1373
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: Them some interesting bookings and it's definitely worth your time,

1374
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: especially if you're into some because they've been doing some

1375
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 2: issues that you don't see, like I say, a lot

1376
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 2: on the East Coast, like public lands. All right, and

1377
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,799
Speaker 2: that was something obviously we talked about, but that's something

1378
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 2: that to me makes it different and it's a perspective

1379
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: literally from another area of the country.

1380
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 1: All right, before we go, let's do a little Ask Chuck.

1381
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 5: Ask Chuck.

1382
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 2: Okay, get the music out there. By the way, there's

1383
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: a couple of ways you can ask me questions. You

1384
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 2: can ask Chuck at the chucktodcast dot com, send them

1385
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 2: by email. You can just do something in YouTube comments,

1386
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: do that in the Instagram wherever you're wherever you find

1387
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 2: the Chuck Podcast YouTube can simply ask questions, whether it's

1388
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 2: in the comments or you send us that email. So

1389
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: let me deal with this. First one is from Drew

1390
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 2: Archer and he writes, if you were chair of the

1391
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 2: DNC or in charge of the DEM parties messaging rit large,

1392
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 2: what are three to five things you'd be doing to

1393
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 2: help the D brand in general?

1394
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: Go hippos.

1395
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 2: Obviously a GW person, This is a bit of an

1396
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 2: insight joke with him. I think he's a repeat questioner.

1397
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 2: I think he just enjoys me saying the words hippos. Look,

1398
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 2: I you know, the problem with me is that I'm

1399
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: not a Democrat, and so in what a lot of

1400
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: times when people give you their opinions, it's always about

1401
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 2: what would appeal to me. It's always It's always funny

1402
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 2: to me when I see former Republicans like my friends

1403
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:37,759
Speaker 2: over at the Bulwark Bill Cristal will say the Democrats

1404
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 2: should be doing this on messaging, and I'm like, I

1405
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 2: don't know if the Democrats are going to listen to

1406
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 2: a you know, Dan Quayle's former chief of staff for

1407
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 2: messaging advice. And now, what Bill Crystal's really saying is

1408
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 2: here's what would appeal to me and my sort of

1409
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 2: centrist leanings.

1410
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: And I think about that myself.

1411
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,600
Speaker 2: Is that you know, am I giving you advice that

1412
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 2: would appeal to me or what I think? But if

1413
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 2: I were in charge you, if you have a brand

1414
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 2: that is that is damaged and right now the Democratic

1415
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 2: Party's brand is damaged. What you really need to do

1416
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: is you need to convince people that it is not

1417
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: a bad brand, right So, and at the same time

1418
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 2: you've got to convince those because it's interesting in this

1419
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: poll that I reference at the top of the podcast,

1420
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 2: you know, Democrats are definitely the ones that are more

1421
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 2: negative right now in Democrats, right, Republicans feeling more good

1422
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 2: about being Republican. You know, winning does that, right, Losing

1423
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 2: elections makes you sour in your party. Winning elections makes

1424
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: you more optimistic about your chosen political party. So a

1425
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 2: little bit is that. You know, it's interesting to me

1426
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 2: the Democrats haven't tried being a fifty state party in

1427
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 2: a legitimate way in twenty years, not since Howard Dean

1428
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 2: did it. And I think they need to go on

1429
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 2: their own listening tour, if you will, and talk to

1430
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 2: you And I'd almost make an intentional effort, you know,

1431
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 2: if you were if you were if people stopped drinking

1432
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 2: coca cola, you'd want to talk to the people who

1433
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 2: stop drinking coca cola to find out why they stopped

1434
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 2: drinking coca cola. So, you know, go find former Democrats

1435
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,480
Speaker 2: and and talk to them. Don't just wait for reporters

1436
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 2: like me to go talk to them or look or

1437
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: look at polling data. Spend real time and talk to them.

1438
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 2: Do an entire town all of people that left the

1439
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 2: Democratic Party in the last five years. Finding these people

1440
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 2: is very easy. You just got to ask. You just

1441
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 2: got to you know. That's how you use your polling

1442
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 2: to go find those folks and go have some some listening,

1443
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 2: you know, and go to all fifty states and do

1444
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 2: this in all fifty states, and then you go back

1445
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 2: and start a brand id campaign of you know, what

1446
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 2: does the party stand for and what doesn't it stand for?

1447
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 2: You know, I do think you can come up with

1448
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 2: messaging that appeases a centrist Democrat and a progressive Democrat, right,

1449
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 2: you know, you look at you know to me that

1450
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: one of the most important phrase is that we have

1451
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 2: in our founding documents is a more perfect union, right,

1452
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 2: more perfect union, because it implies we know we're not perfect,

1453
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 2: and perhaps we're never going to get to perfect, but

1454
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: we're always trying to make the union more perfect, closer

1455
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 2: to perfect. So the Democrats need to find their own

1456
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 2: branding that essentially is able to say, look, you know

1457
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party wants to be the party of the future,

1458
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 2: the party of today and tomorrow, et ceter That you're

1459
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 2: always looking forward, that your future oriented. So that means

1460
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 2: you need to be younger. There's definitely needs to be

1461
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: an attempt to be younger, but you also need to

1462
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes you can get younger, not generationally but

1463
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 2: in behavior. You need to be more modern, you know more,

1464
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 2: and I think the Republicans in many ways got they

1465
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 2: came across as the more in touch party because they

1466
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,600
Speaker 2: were they certainly were more modern when it came to

1467
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 2: communicating and where to communicate. So, you know, I do

1468
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 2: think that they ought to tackle it in the same

1469
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: way a McDonald's wants to find out why people aren't

1470
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 2: going to McDonald's anymore. Maybe they need to offer different things,

1471
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 2: you know, that's the type of research. And they've done

1472
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 2: this before. I mean, that's the irony. They went through

1473
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 2: this in the nineties. They kind of went through this

1474
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 2: a little bit in the mid oughts, and each time

1475
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 2: it produced a successful two term president, right with Bill

1476
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 2: Clinton and then with Barack Obama. So but they do

1477
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 2: need to you have to acknowledge that you've failed. And

1478
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 2: right now our politics and our media infrastructure punishes anybody

1479
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 2: that admits failure and makes it impossible to sort of

1480
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 2: show humility without humiliation, and I think that's what keeps

1481
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 2: good people from being more honest with you.

1482
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very frustrating to me.

1483
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 2: It's so clear elected officials are just look at any

1484
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 2: Democrat or Republicans, most of them are lying is a

1485
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 2: strong word, but are constantly telling you what you what

1486
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 2: they think you want to hear, rather than being honest

1487
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 2: about the situation as it is. And it's because they

1488
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 2: don't want that honesty weaponized against them. And so when

1489
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 2: you have a media ecosystem that does that makes it

1490
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: that much harder in a moment like this right where

1491
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: I think the Republican Party needs to admit that, hey,

1492
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 2: Donald Trump needs to admit he's getting some things wrong.

1493
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 2: But he never apologized, never apologized, never apologized, and I

1494
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 2: think Democrats now think they have to emulate that behavior,

1495
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 2: which I think is a huge, huge mistake. Anyway, So

1496
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 2: I hope that helped. Next question, Tom d from Philadelphia,

1497
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 2: go birds. He wrote that and he coming from me,

1498
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: damn it, And he writes this. One of the things

1499
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 2: that is frequently mentioned about the nineteen seventy sixth election

1500
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 2: is that if election day was one week later, Gerald

1501
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 2: Ford would have won that election. Similarly, I've long believed

1502
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,839
Speaker 2: that if election Day in twenty sixteen was one week earlier,

1503
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton would have held back.

1504
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and one.

1505
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 2: Obviously, we will never know the answer, but as a

1506
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 2: big fan of your historical alternate history shows, if you

1507
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 2: go back in my archives, NBC still has them up,

1508
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: you can go see him. I do this at the

1509
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 2: in December every year. Done it three or four years now.

1510
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 2: Tom would like to know what says me about both

1511
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 2: seventy six and sixteen. Well, look, I mean I think

1512
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 2: I know a lot about the seventy sixth election. My

1513
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 2: first mentor in politics was a gentleman named Doug Bailey,

1514
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,839
Speaker 2: a longtime Republican consultant, and he was a co founder

1515
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 2: of the Hotline, which was where I cut my teeth

1516
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 2: on political journalism for fifteen years. Doug was the leading

1517
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:40,719
Speaker 2: media consultant on that on that forward campaign. Dick Cheney,

1518
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 2: by the way, was the chief of staff in the

1519
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 2: White House It's and I think Jim Baker was among

1520
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 2: the chief strategists. So it was quite the It was

1521
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 2: literally the Republican establishment of that era. And when you

1522
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: lose by a point. Doug Bailey had had a couple

1523
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 2: of theories as to why they lost number one, and

1524
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 2: when you lose by one percentage point, you can blame

1525
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of folks. But it's interesting you talk

1526
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 2: about the quote. One week later, Doug believes the most

1527
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 2: damaging thing that happened was a gallop poll came out

1528
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 2: the weekend of that the weekend before election day, that

1529
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 2: showed Ford ahead of Carter for the first time all year,

1530
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 2: and it was like this shock, oh wow, and he'd

1531
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 2: been creeping up. What happened was Ford started out way behind,

1532
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 2: as you might expect you're Richard Nixon's vice president. Richard

1533
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 2: Nixon was unpopular, That Watergate was very unpopular, and Jimmy

1534
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 2: Carter's entire campaign was premised on I will not tell

1535
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 2: a lie and basically I'm a much more moral I'm

1536
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 2: gonna have high character in the White House after we

1537
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,679
Speaker 2: just had that low character incident. So he was essentially

1538
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 2: running against Nixon. Well, what Doug came up with in

1539
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 2: his ad campaign were these men on the street interviews going,

1540
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 2: you know, what do you know about Jimmy Carter, and

1541
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 2: it was just it was the first time these were

1542
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: used really effectively. Now you see him all the time,

1543
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 2: but this was groundbreaking at the time. It was just

1544
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 2: quote unquote man and women on the street interviews, what

1545
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 2: do you know about Jimmy Carter? And it was more like,

1546
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 2: do you do you think he can handle the job?

1547
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 2: It was playing to the idea that people didn't know

1548
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 2: a lot about Carter. They just knew who he wasn't right,

1549
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 2: they knew, they knew, they knew the top lines, but

1550
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 2: they didn't know a lot about can he handle the

1551
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 2: Cold War?

1552
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 1: Can he do this?

1553
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 4: You know?

1554
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 1: And the whole idea was Gerald Ford. He's a man

1555
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: that's been tested, he can handle the big problems. He's

1556
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:26,879
Speaker 1: been doing the job. You know, he kept the country,

1557
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: you know, afloat after that horrible scandal with Watergate. So

1558
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 1: they were trying to raise questions and this ad campaign

1559
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:36,560
Speaker 1: was working. It was crazing doubt. It was sort of

1560
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: bringing bringing.

1561
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 2: Independence and Republicans home for Ford, and that pole comes

1562
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 2: out on I think it was a Saturday night shows.

1563
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 2: Ford ahead by a point. Doug went to his grave.

1564
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 2: He is now deceased believing that had that poll showed

1565
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: Carter up by a point and not Ford, is a

1566
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 2: point that Ford ends up winning because he thinks that

1567
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 2: the minute voters realized Ford could win, it was like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa,

1568
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 2: didn't want Carter to get a mandate. We were not

1569
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,439
Speaker 2: wanting to reward forward with another term that we still

1570
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 2: need to punish the Republicans for Nixon. So that was

1571
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 2: his theory, although he will also say when you lose

1572
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 2: by a point, there's a lot of things you can blame,

1573
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 2: and he thinks the other the most damaging thing in

1574
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 2: the fall campaign to Gerald Ford was Bob Dole's performance

1575
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 2: in the VP debate. It was the first ever televised

1576
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 2: VP debate in history. By the way, in that VP

1577
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 2: debate he infamously blamed he said, called all of the

1578
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 2: wars of the twentieth century Democrat wars. Now he's trying

1579
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 2: to mostly saying, you know, his Democrats that got us

1580
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 2: involved with the anam that's unpopular, And he was saying,

1581
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: you know, basically, a Democrat was in the White House

1582
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 2: at the start of World War one, a Democrat was

1583
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 2: in the White House at the start of Word War two,

1584
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 2: A Democrat was in the White House start of Korea, Well,

1585
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 2: let's just say that that is not how the country

1586
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:50,679
Speaker 2: viewed it. And frankly, there were a lot of military

1587
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 2: veterans who didn't see it as a democratic war or

1588
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 2: republican war. But of certainly World War one and WLD

1589
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 2: War two, we're sort of brought to us more than

1590
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 2: war of choices. Korean Vietnam. You can make a different

1591
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 2: calculation on that. But it blew up in Dole's face.

1592
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 2: It backfired, and so that's always something that Doug's also

1593
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 2: put to the test on that one. As for your

1594
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:17,919
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton projection, we you know, look if that elections

1595
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 2: ten days earlier, it's before that infamous laptop of Anthony Wiener,

1596
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 2: who at the time was married to one of Hillary

1597
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,959
Speaker 2: Clinton's closest advisors, whom Aberdeen. The laptop had more emails

1598
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 2: on it, but it turned out it was the same emails.

1599
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,799
Speaker 2: But Jim Comey comes out, who's then head of the FBI,

1600
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 2: and implies that the investigation is back on the weekend before. Well, look,

1601
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 2: when you have that small of a margin in Michigan, Wisconsin,

1602
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 2: and Pennsylvania, it's hard not to imagine that. Look There's

1603
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 2: a lot of people in the world of George W.

1604
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 2: Bush who believe if the Dui story, which came out

1605
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 2: the weekend before the election, doesn't come out, Bush wins

1606
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 2: the popular vote and carries the election, you know, with

1607
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 2: a bit more of a comfortable margin than he ended

1608
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 2: up winning in the losing the popular vote and of

1609
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:11,799
Speaker 2: course winning the Electoral College with a controversial court decision

1610
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,639
Speaker 2: about the recount in the state of Florida.

1611
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 1: So you're right. Timing is everything in politics.

1612
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 2: And that's why I love me a good butterfly effect,

1613
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 2: because when you study a butterfly effect on history, it

1614
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 2: actually allows you to understand why things ended up the

1615
01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: way they did. Right the butterfly effect, you wonder, boy,

1616
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 2: what if this didn't happen, And it allows you to

1617
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: understand actually better what was going on in the moment

1618
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 2: that these events were taking place.

1619
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: So enjoyed that question. Appreciate the plug on that.

1620
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 2: I remember again, ask Chuck at thechucktodcast dot com, or

1621
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,720
Speaker 2: simply drop any questions you'd like me to address, and

1622
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 2: I'll just address the ones I want to, not the

1623
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 2: ones you really really really think I should. And I

1624
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 2: certainly you know I'll answer a trolls question if the

1625
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 2: troll actually asks a good and fair question, so I'll

1626
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 2: even let you guys in on that as well. So

1627
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 2: with that, appreciate you listening in and again be on

1628
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 2: the lookout for a bonus episode later this week that's

1629
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 2: going to be dropping, and until then, I'll see you

1630
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 2: on the other side until we upload again.