1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl podcast on Paul Swing You. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Brahmas, each day we 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: and your money. Whether at the grocery store or the 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. We still don't have a sense of 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: whether the coronavirus is contained or can be contained. There's 9 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: still are questions being raised about the numbers coming out 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: of China, Apple saying that they will not meet their 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: revenue forecasts for the first quarter in light of some 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: of the sales disruptions in China, and yet markets incredibly 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: resilient in the United States. Joining us down to find 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: out exactly how much longer markets can remain this resilient. 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: Fill Orlando, chief equity market strategist and head of client 16 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: portfolio Management at Federated her Mays joining us by phone. Phil, 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: You've been a bowl, You've gotten it right for a 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: long time. You've been heavy into the big tech giants. 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm wondering from your perspective, at what point do you 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: throw in your cards and say, you know what, this 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: is going to be a longer term issue for the 22 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: tech giants what's going on in China. So thank you 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: again for having me on UM. I'm not sure that 24 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: we're going to throw the towel in. UM. I will 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: absolutely concede that the market, except for you know, a 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: three percent correction over about six trading days at the 27 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: end of January, has largely ignored the coronavirus and and UH. 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: In my humble opinion, I think this situation is going 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: to be potentially bigger than than people think. And we're 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: just today getting the first snippets of economically related news 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: investment related news on coronavirus witness UH, you know, Apple 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: talking about having some supply issues and and Walmart talking about, 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, having missed on on Christmas, particularly January, maybe 34 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: some in December. I'm not sure exactly where the details 35 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: are in part based upon UH coronavirus and and we 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: also know that a couple of the other retailers, Calls 37 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: and Target had disappointing numbers. So I think there's gonna 38 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: be more of this going forward. UM. As we looked 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: at the retail sales numbers that were related to the 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: street for the Commerce department on Friday, UM, Christmas was 41 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: pretty good. And and as we define Christmas, because of 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: the the the extraordinarily early Thanksgiving and the way the 43 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: Black Friday weekend was sort of split up half in 44 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: November half in December, companies were making a concerted effort 45 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: to start to advertise and move Christmas product in the 46 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: month of October. So our view was, Okay, let's just 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: define Christmas as October, November, December, and January because you've 48 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: got gift card redemptions. So as we looked at the 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: data for those four months on a year of a 50 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: year basis, retail sales are up four That was a 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: pretty good Christmas. So I'm fine with Christmas having been good. 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: Coronavirus UM really didn't start to become part of our 53 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: nomenclature here in the States until about the third week 54 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: in in January, and has now really started to you know, 55 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: catch some some some traction here looking at coronavirus versus stars. 56 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: Back in the two thousand and two thousand and three neighborhood, 57 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: the total confirmed number of cases for STARS was We're 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: we're already north of seventy three thousand with with the 59 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: coronavirus with no real end in sight here, and our 60 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: best guess is that this is going to continue for 61 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: at least another couple of months. And that's got to 62 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: take into account um retail sales numbers being sloppy in February. 63 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: Maybe that spills into the easter season. And I think 64 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: we're going to get more guidance down from companies who 65 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: are going to use coronavirus as a justification for why 66 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: their numbers are coming in, you know, software than expect it. 67 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure that any of that is yet 68 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: in the market, with the market having done as well 69 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: as it's been doing. So, Phil, are you in the 70 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: camp that I think is gating some more members every day? 71 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: And that camp is if the coronavirus does have a 72 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: meaningful economic impact on global economies, the central banks are 73 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: they're waiting to respond in lower rates and be you know, supportive. 74 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: We're absolutely there, But I don't think our Federal Reserve 75 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: is going to cut interest rates because I don't think 76 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: the coronavirus situation is going to be uh from a 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: time standpoint. Um, we think it's going to have a 78 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: significant first quarter impact, and I think as we get 79 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: into the second quarter, the middle of the year, I 80 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: think we're gonna have our hand around this. Um. We 81 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: are doing much better looking at coronavirus compared to Stars. 82 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: One of the things we're focusing on is what's known 83 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: as the mortality rate, the percentage of people who died 84 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: from this with With Stars, that mortality rate was just 85 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: under ten percent. With the coronavirus. The mortality rate right 86 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: now is running about two and a half percent. The 87 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: Chinese government as as as much as as we think 88 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: they're being irresponsible here in terms of transparency and letting 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: the world know what's going on, etcetera. When we look 90 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: at COVID nineteen versus Stars, they have been much more 91 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: aggressive by you know, a period of about a month 92 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: of six weeks in terms of letting the world know 93 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: what's going on, giving us the sequencing. US global pharmaceutical 94 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: and biotechnology companies are actively working on some some compounds 95 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: that that might have some promise in terms of vaccines 96 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: or you know, medicinal purposes or whatever. So I truly 97 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: believe in my heart of hearts that that as we 98 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: get into the second quarter of working towards the middle 99 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: of the year, we're gonna have our hands around this 100 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: and we're gonna see these numbers start to receive. So 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: so it's ugly right now. Um, we're gonna see a 102 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: hit to GDP growth, We're going to see a hit 103 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: to corporate earnings. But as as we look at the 104 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: balance of the year, I think we're we're looking at 105 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: a snapback as we get into the middle of the 106 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: year and in a strong second half of the year, 107 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: and I think that's why we're seeing a limited market response. Now. 108 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: I think investors some degree you're sharing that view and 109 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: perhaps looking through the ugliness of what's going on right now. 110 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Right well, that's exactly where I was going to go, 111 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: which is you said that you don't think markets have 112 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: been pricing in the real potential implications of the coronavirus. 113 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: It sounds like they're not because they're expecting a V 114 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: shape recovery and the economy and there therefore there isn't 115 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: gonna be a longer lasting effect. Are you in that 116 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: camp where you're not going to change any of your 117 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: positioning in response to what we're seeing over in China, 118 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: just with the expectation of this V shaped recovery, we 119 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: we have not made any changes in terms of positioning. 120 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: We made some changes in positioning at the end of 121 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: last calendar year in terms of taking domestic large cap 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: growth from overweight back to neutral and upgrading domestic large 123 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: cap value from neutral to overweight. We've got overweights and 124 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: domestic small cap um and we also added an overweight 125 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: to emerging markets, which, in light of what we now 126 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: know with coronavirus, maybe that was a little premature, but 127 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna stick with it again because we think of 128 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: the relatively short live nature of what we think we're 129 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: dealing with right now. Hey, Phil, thanks so much for 130 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: joining us to really appreciate your thoughts. As always, Phil Orlando, 131 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: chief equity market strategists and head of client portfolio Management 132 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: at Federated our mays joining us on the phone. Uh. 133 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: Phil has remained, as you noted, at least a consistent 134 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: lee bullish. He's been consistently right. I think I appreciate 135 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: his thoughts on the coronavirus how, you know, kind of 136 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: putting a timeframe on it, kind of bleeding into uh 137 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 1: the second quarter, but then becoming less of an issue 138 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: in the second half of the year. That's I think 139 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: how they are discounting the coronavirus there at Federated WELLO. 140 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: Good friends at Walmart reported earnings this morning kind of 141 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: mixed bag. The fourth quarter of the all important holiday 142 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: quarter a little bit uh weaker than expected, but the 143 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: four year guidance for pretty much in line with what 144 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the street was looking for. So the net net on 145 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: the stock is it's up about eight tenths of one 146 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: percent today. For Walmart. To get a sense of what's 147 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: going on at Walmart and all things retail, we turned 148 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: to our good friend Bert Flickinger, Managing Director Strategic Resource Group. 149 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: He joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio. 150 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: So Bert, a little bit of a mixed bag out 151 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: of Walmart. What's your key takeaway going forward with these 152 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: folks too? A couple of things, Paul and Lisa. One, 153 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Walmart's insulated because they sell more fresh food, refrigerated, frozen 154 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: and fresh than anyone else, so it's about two thirds 155 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: of their business. So Walmart, like Costco, which hit a 156 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: fifty two week high in the Bloomberg terminal today, to 157 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: uh forward looking, they've both invested tremendously in technology for 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: the last thirty years. So the markets looking at Walmart's 159 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: capex being a little bit less in technology compared to 160 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: competitive peers. And secondly that Walmart and Costco strategically invested 161 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: in distribution centers and inventory. So despite tariffs, coronavirus, and 162 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: sourcing more locally within the continental US, Walmart has some 163 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: longer term advantages for the next couple of quarters that 164 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: most of their competitors don't come close on. All. Right, 165 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: let's put the coronavirus aside, because they basically have not 166 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: put that into their assumptions in any way, it's unclear 167 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: how they're going to be dealing with that, and just 168 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: talk about the fact that they missed expectations when it 169 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: came to revenues in EPs forecast. This has been completely 170 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: shrugged off by markets. Yet this comes after Target also disappointed. 171 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how much we can read into this as 172 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: a trend. Does I say something about the consumer just 173 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: to say something about Amazon dot Com, you know, rolling 174 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: up all of the market share away from the Walmarts 175 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: and the targets of the world. Lisa, It says yes 176 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: to all of the above. It says the Amazon roll up. Uh. 177 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: It also also says uh, despite targets miss in our 178 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: pricing studies. Targets still a little bit premium priced in 179 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: our pricing studies with Walmart. For the first time UH 180 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: in five years, Walmart's line price with the low price 181 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: leader leaders Windco in the West, UH Costco nationally and internationally. 182 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: So you and Tom Kane talk about very well frequently 183 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: is while Walmart's investing more in lower prices, Walmart's units 184 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: are up. At the same time, as you're presently pointing out, 185 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: the consumers are facing higher monthly budget expenses in ten 186 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: out of the top eleven expenditures everything except gasoline, so 187 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: UH rent, tuition, UH insurance, it's taxes, etcetera, etcetera. So 188 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: the consumers more cash constrained. And as people look at 189 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: where the consumers going Ross stores on the Bloomberg terminal 190 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: fifty two week high today, Bloomberg Burlington on the Bloomberg 191 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: had a fifty two week high today, UH lows and 192 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: home Depot in terms of category dominant earlier today UH 193 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: fifty two week high. So the consumers are going where 194 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: the best prices are, and the best prices are with 195 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: the big retailers that are off price price impact or 196 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: destination that have procurement power. But also I want to 197 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: make sure to catch key point you referenced, is is 198 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: this sustainable? It might be sustainable for a quarter or 199 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: two of the fifty two week highs within retail. Fresh 200 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: Pet hit of fifty two week high today, that's sustainable. 201 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: Not sure chain retail is sustainable. Not sure Amazon sustainable. 202 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: So let's talk. I know Walmart's having an investor day 203 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: UH today, so we'll get some more news out of 204 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: that throughout the day. But one of the places I 205 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: always look for Amazon and Target and Target and Walmart 206 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: to see how the compete against Amazon is their digital sales. 207 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: So another thirty growth in the digital sales for Walmart. 208 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: That's good, but it's slowing a little bit, but still 209 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: pretty solid digital sales. And can consumers who historically might 210 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: have only been able to to get to a Walmart 211 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: once or twice a month. Mark Lori x X of 212 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: Amazon and acquisition by Walmart of Jet will be able 213 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: to deliver from Walmart supercenters to of US homes within 214 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: the Continental U lass and Walmart's brilliantly put FedEx UH 215 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: depots within its store so people can buy at Walmart 216 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: and ship either within the US or outside the US. 217 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: At what point do we have to start worrying about 218 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: the consumer and how much momentum there is if where 219 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: they're going is ross stores as the discounters we have, Lisa, 220 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: we have to start worrying about the consumer. Now. The 221 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: telling period is going to be Memorial Data Labor Day 222 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: where the consumer uh, it's Bloomberg reports has We've been 223 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: traveling in record numbers, spending in record numbers, but looking 224 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg even before Ryan Newman's tragic death and 225 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: NASCAR yesterday, NASCAR attendance is way down and that's he's 226 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: still he's alive. He's in serious condition. Thank you serious 227 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: parts and prayers and appreciate the uh timely correction. Yeah, 228 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: and it's actually as injuries are not life threatening after 229 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: that horrible crash. Um but he it seems like is 230 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: going to emerge. But really interesting and thank you so 231 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: much for being with us, Bird, because this is I 232 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: think one of the big questions when I came in 233 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Walmart disappointing after target disappointing. You know, a knee jerk 234 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: response might be to say, is this concerning you? Look 235 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: under the hood, A lot of factors at play, but 236 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: certainly heading into this period of the year, important to 237 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: watch to see if it makes a trend. Uh, and 238 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: we will have you back to discuss that. Bird Flickinger, 239 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: Managing director at Strategic Resource Group, joining us here in 240 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: our interactive broker studios. And interesting to see how Walmart 241 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: shairs really resilient after missing estimates on a whole variety, 242 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: actually gaining today. Uh, They're up eight tenths of a percent. 243 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: Not a massive gain, but given the fact that the 244 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: broader market move is lower and that they missed expectations 245 00:14:47,480 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: and that they still are gaining, it's somewhat notable. The 246 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: big news one of the many big news items of 247 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: the day. There actually are a lot that are sort 248 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: of done the corporate front. On the corporate front is 249 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: the tie up of Franklin Resources agreeing to buy leg 250 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: Mason to create a one and a half trillion dollar giant. 251 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: This comes amid a slew of consolidation among asset managers. 252 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: Any massa covering it all, investing reporter for Bloomberg News, 253 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: joining us here in our interactive broker studios. Can you 254 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: just take a step back and look at how significant 255 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: the wave of consolidation has been in the past, say, 256 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: five to ten years within the asset management space. Sure, 257 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, I mean you can really just rattle 258 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: off these big UM episodes of mergers and acquisitions in 259 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: the asset management industry. You saw Investco by Oppenheimer Funds, 260 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: you saw Janice Henderson, Standard Life Aberdeen, and this is 261 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: just the latest in that wave of consolidation that we're seeing. 262 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: As active managers are trying to, you know, figure out 263 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: how to navigate um and increasingly passive investing world. You 264 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: just kind of need scale to be able to compete. 265 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: So give us the Again, the rationale is scale. So 266 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: are we simply are these companies simply saying I can 267 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: see the pressure on my revenue line. I don't think 268 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: that's going away anytime soon, So I just got to 269 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: get scale and try to rationalize my costs. Is that 270 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: kind of the play here. Yeah. If you look back 271 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: over the past ten or fifteen years, both leg Mason 272 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: and Franklin Templeton have seen their assets under management UM 273 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: kind of come down from their highs. So now, as 274 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned, you have UM a one point five trillion 275 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: dollars in assets in these combined firms. It also fills 276 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: in some gaps for Franklin UM, particularly on the fixed 277 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: income and alternatives side. What's the price tag being viewed 278 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: as in the market UM the deal is valued at 279 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: about four point five billion dollars, and is that viewed 280 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: is too much too little? UM? I think it's valued 281 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: about as about in line. So how about when I 282 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: think of big neutro funds, obviously I start with Fidelity. 283 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: Do we see Fidelity on the M and a trail? Often? 284 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: I can't think of some I can't think of any 285 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: big deals. That's a good question. Fidelity has often been 286 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: one to really go it alone. But Fidelity also has 287 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: the advantage of being just one like a giant already. 288 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: It's really for the slightly like middle size. Can't really 289 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: pass a trillion dollars in assets where you're seeing this 290 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: kind of consolidation. Neither leg Or or Franklin was really 291 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: able to get there on its own. So now tying 292 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: them up, they can finally get past that trillion dollars 293 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: in assets kind of mark. It helps because UM technology 294 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: is increasingly costly for these asset managers, and and if 295 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: you can spread out some of those costs across all 296 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: these different assets and then also offer different product lines. 297 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: It really does help to be more of a big supermarket. 298 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense when you speak to analysts 299 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: who've been watching the space for a while of who 300 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: some of the next potential contenders are for for potential 301 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: murder activity. Yeah, that's a good question. Basically, UM, what 302 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: what we're looking at here is some of these acquisitions 303 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: that we've really seen in the space have faltered a 304 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: little bit or not been as successful as they were 305 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: otherwise thought to be. So I think that that's leading 306 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: to some questions about whether these deals actually pan out 307 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: and work. UM. In some cases, like the Janice merger, 308 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: you actually saw client outflows in the wake of those 309 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: um in the wake of those tie ups, so it's 310 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: not always UM a very beneficial thing in the aftermath. 311 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: One thing that they mentioned on the conference call is 312 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: that like Mason will kind of maintain the independence of 313 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: all these different affiliate asset managers that it works with, 314 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: and they're hoping to UM hang onto those client assets 315 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: and stem some of those client outflow potential client outflows 316 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: that way. You know, when I think about the pressure 317 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: on the fees and doing large part to this move 318 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: from active to passive Is that a global phenomenon or 319 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: is that more in the the US. It is a 320 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: global phenomenon. I think you're really seeing a lot of 321 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: this happening in the US because that's where the largest 322 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: asset managers are based, and that's both on the active 323 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: side and the passive side. What about the alternative side, 324 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean, how much are that? Is that the area 325 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: that people are looking to for the fees and just 326 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: trying to get scope with respect to passive and then 327 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: go into you know, the more liquid securities type of 328 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: type of trade. It's a really good question. Alternatives are 329 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: becoming so important for pretty much all asset managers. And 330 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: we saw UM even last week with vanguards foray into 331 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: private equity, and and Blackrock did didn't made a similar 332 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: pushtion to alternatives as well. Even the giants of index 333 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: investing can't ignore alts. So especially on the active side, 334 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: UM firm like Franklin wants to bulk up in alternatives. 335 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: Are we the early stages of late stages this consolidation? 336 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: Do you think? I think that we're still gonna continue 337 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: to see consolidation in this industry. There's so much pressure 338 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: on fees for both active and pressive products. Um and 339 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: scale has become so important. It's this barbell where you 340 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: have to either be a behemoth that offers everything or 341 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 1: just so niche and in between you're going to struggle. 342 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: Any Massa, thanks so much for joining us. Annie Massa, 343 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: investoring investing reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us here in 344 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: a Bloomberg Interactor broker studio. Jeff Bezos, who is of 345 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: course the founder of Amazon, announced that he is committing 346 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: ten billion dollars of his own wealth to fighting climate change. 347 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: Who was biggest philanthropic effort so far, and it comes 348 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: after a substantial pressure from within the company from workers 349 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: saying that the company is not doing enough to fight 350 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: climate change. But it really raises a question, what can 351 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: the biggest companies do? What kind of meaningful changes could 352 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: they make to reduce their carbon emissions and fight the 353 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: rising climate. Jelly Bergstein joins us now the chief executive 354 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 1: officer of Seventh Generation, which is based in Burlington, Vermont. 355 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: It was acquired by Unilever, but it really has been 356 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: one of the biggest speakers out of terms of corporate 357 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: responsibility in this area. Joey, I'm really glad you're joining us. Today, 358 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: I want to get your perspective on this ten billion 359 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: dollar commitment that Jeff Bezos made. Where do you see 360 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: the greatest need for that kind of money to actually 361 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: combat uh, some of what we're seeing with respect to omissions. 362 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me on, Lisa. It's 363 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: it's great to be with you and really applaud the 364 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: commitment that Bezos is made to addressing what is the 365 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: biggest crisis of our time. And UM, it's really important 366 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: from our perspective that companies do take real and meaningful 367 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: action to address climate As we look at what's going 368 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: on in the world around us. We're really focused in 369 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: three different areas. One is the products that we make 370 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: and ensuring that we're creating products that actually have the 371 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: low carbon footprint. Great example of that is an ultra 372 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: concentrated launcher to Jurgen that we launched over a year 373 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: ago UM that we sell on Amazon, and UM the 374 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: shape the support that we get from the Amazon team 375 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: on on that part of our business. We tax ourselves 376 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: in internal carbon tax that we can then invest to 377 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: address our own carbon footprint. And then I would say 378 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: the third thing is that we're really looking at how 379 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: do we clean up the energy grid in this country 380 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: and would love to see investments being made much more 381 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: broadly by companies across the US to really clean up 382 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: our own energy grid. What we've discovered is that when 383 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: you look at our full carbon footprint from making this stuff, 384 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: for growing the ingredients on a farm, through to the 385 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: production process and getting it into the hands of people 386 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: to use, actually nine of our carbon footprint comes when 387 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: you and are Washington drying our clothes at home and 388 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: as clean as we can make our own operations. The 389 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: only way to truly address the impact of business is 390 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: to clean up the energy energy sorry, energy grid, and 391 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: that for me is the top priority for us in 392 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: UH in this kind tree. So, Joey, how do you 393 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: do that with a company? Just take your company, how 394 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: do you think about and try to address the energy grid? 395 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: That just seems like a huge issue that might be 396 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: outside of your natural kind of day to day business. Yeah, 397 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: it's monumental, actually, um, and it is outside of our 398 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: day to day business. So a lot of the work 399 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: we're doing in that space has been around advocacy and 400 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: working with grassroots organizations across the country to try to 401 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: move cities and states to make commitments to clean energy 402 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: by we think with those commitments in place, that these 403 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: cities and states will actually take the action needed to 404 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: address the energy grid. In two thousand and eighteen, we 405 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: set out, working with Serra Club and other grassroots organizations 406 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: to try to get a hundred cities to make such commitments. 407 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: By the end of the year, hundred eight cities and 408 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: made commitments um and I think we're up to over 409 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty cities and over seven states making 410 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: these kinds of commitments, and so that's really the role 411 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: of our advocacy work too, to try to address the situation. 412 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: It's a big question and a big concern for a 413 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: lot of investors who are trying to follow E s 414 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: T requirements, And there's a question that gets raised, especially 415 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: with this sort of ten million dollar commitment that sort 416 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: of thrust this whole effort into focus today. How much 417 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: can we tell whether a company is just paying lip 418 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: service to the idea versus actually doing something meaningful with 419 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: reducing their footprint. That's a great question. I think it 420 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: really starts with making big, bold commitments, because addressing a 421 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: crisis of this magnitude doesn't happen just by business as 422 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: usual kinds of action, so I applaud companies that meant UH. 423 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: It's also really important to consistently report on what actions 424 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: companies are taking. So we publish an annual sustainability report. 425 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: We track ourselves single that we make and how we 426 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: make progress year after year, and I would expect that 427 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: other companies are doing the same things. It's it's really 428 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: not enough just to make the commitment by to also 429 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: be very transparent about what actions are are actually being 430 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: put in place. Hey, Joey, thank you so much for 431 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: joining us. Really appreciate your thoughts on this important topic 432 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: and on a topic that's growing in influence. Joey Bergstein, 433 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: CEO of Seventh Generation based in Burlington, Vermont, joining us 434 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: on the phone. It's interesting to think about, you know, 435 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,959 Speaker 1: environmental social governance. It's becoming a bigger part of UH 436 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: investors view of companies and industries, and there's a lot 437 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: of data out there. There's a lot of data on 438 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal that tracks UH some of the metrics 439 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: as it relates to E s G. And we're hearing 440 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: more and more UH investors, whether it's hedge funds, portfolio UH, 441 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, mutual funds and institutional investors really focusing on 442 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: E s G. Yeah. I mean, I do think though 443 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: we've moved past the point of just saying, Okay, what 444 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: have you put out there that you're doing to fight 445 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: climate change into okay, well, how effective are some of 446 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: these measures? And I think you know, when you look 447 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: at Amazon, for example, there's been a lot of pressure 448 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: internally about changing of the practices of the company, and 449 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: then there's a question of how Jeff Bezos is even 450 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: going to deploy ten billion dollars because a lot of 451 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: these upstart organizations are small. Yeah, exactly right, but that 452 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: ten billion dollars is a big number. It gets everyone's attention. 453 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. 454 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts 455 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on 456 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa Abram Woyds. I'm on 457 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa Abram wits one. Before the podcast, you 458 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.