Speaker 1: Late one night in June, Jody was in her car
Speaker 1: driving down a long wooded road in southern Maine. Jodi
Speaker 1: Paglioco drives for Uber and left. She had a passenger
Speaker 1: in the front seat. She picked him up from a
Speaker 1: bar in town and was taking him home. She says
Speaker 1: he seemed drunk. The road was dark and there was
Speaker 1: nobody around. Jody was getting uncomfortable, and he made a
Speaker 1: joke about not meaning a serial killer. But then he
Speaker 1: started talking about sexual stuff and everything, and all I
Speaker 1: could think of what am I going to do if
Speaker 1: he does anything else, or if he tried to grab
Speaker 1: me or touch me. She wanted to let him out
Speaker 1: of the car right then and there, but she had
Speaker 1: to drive to a safe location. I ended up getting
Speaker 1: him to the front gates of his place. I told
Speaker 1: him it was time for him to get out, and
Speaker 1: I told him I wasn't driving him need for alert.
Speaker 1: The man got out of the car and left. Jody
Speaker 1: says she was relieved that nothing else happened to her
Speaker 1: that night, but it left her scared and shaken, and
Speaker 1: then shortly after she had another incident with a passenger.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought the car and everything, doors are unlocked,
Speaker 1: he opens the door and then he reaches and tries
Speaker 1: to grab me and kissed me. So you've only been
Speaker 1: driving for six months. How many times do you think
Speaker 1: you've been put in an uncomfortable or inappropriate situation like that?
Speaker 1: I think she's um. I got almost a thousand rides
Speaker 1: under my belt between Uber and Left. As much as
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, I would say probably about
Speaker 1: two vos. Hi, I'm Brad Stone and I'm Selena Wang.
Speaker 1: And this week on Decrypted, we're exploring the gender dynamics
Speaker 1: of the gig economy. These jobs were supposed to help
Speaker 1: level the playing field in the modern economy, offering away,
Speaker 1: for example, for mother's juggling childcare responsibilities to work with
Speaker 1: flexible hours, and while that promise of flexibility is what
Speaker 1: drew them in, many women like Jody who drive for
Speaker 1: services like Uber and Left say they frequently encountered harassment,
Speaker 1: even assault by male passengers, and that those conditions have
Speaker 1: in turn put them out a disadvantage to mail drivers.
Speaker 1: Later in the episode will dive deep into what the
Speaker 1: economic research says about all this and what Uber and
Speaker 1: Left are doing in response. Stay with us Selena over
Speaker 1: the past few weeks, You've been talking to quite a
Speaker 1: few women in the gig economy. So tell us about Joe,
Speaker 1: who we heard from at the top of the show. So,
Speaker 1: Jody's thirty eight years old, grew up in Arizona and
Speaker 1: has an associates degree. She's divorced with two kids. About
Speaker 1: four years ago, her daughter, who was seventeen at the time,
Speaker 1: was in a terrible accident that paralyzed her from waist down.
Speaker 1: Last year, Jody moved to Maine to be closer to
Speaker 1: where her daughter will be getting medical treatment. And since
Speaker 1: it's not exactly the easiest thing getting a job out here,
Speaker 1: and especially since I've spent the majority of my marriage
Speaker 1: at home raising kids. I also have a seventeen year
Speaker 1: old son as well, and so yeah, I came out
Speaker 1: here and decided to do the thing. Jody typically drives
Speaker 1: that night from eight pm to three am, times when
Speaker 1: she says she can make the most money. A lot
Speaker 1: of her passengers are going home from bars and events.
Speaker 1: I do try and sing in at least eight hours
Speaker 1: a day, so that way, it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: full time job for me. I met Jody in a
Speaker 1: private Facebook group for mail lift and Uber drivers The
Speaker 1: group has almost ten thousand members. It's a support group
Speaker 1: where women ask questions, give advice, and share their experiences
Speaker 1: driving on the platform, both positive and negative. Now, there's
Speaker 1: many reasons why women might decide to become Lift or
Speaker 1: Uber drivers, but one that I kept hearing how to
Speaker 1: do with childcare. A lot of the women I spoke
Speaker 1: to were mothers. I just needed to make a little
Speaker 1: bit of extra money and I didn't have to find
Speaker 1: childcare if I like just I mean, they're not going
Speaker 1: to the restaurant's not going to judge you for having
Speaker 1: a baby on your hip. That's Hannah Mentor. She lives
Speaker 1: in Savannah, Georgia. She's twenty four and a single mother
Speaker 1: of two kids. She started doing food delivery part time
Speaker 1: to supplement her income, designing things like T shirts that
Speaker 1: she sells on Etsy. And then when you drop off
Speaker 1: with Uber, the majority of the time they're walking up
Speaker 1: to the car and grabbing it from you. So I
Speaker 1: never had to worry about someone watching my kid because
Speaker 1: he was right there with me. You know. After a while,
Speaker 1: Hannah realized she could make more me by driving passengers
Speaker 1: for Uber and Lift, so I started branching out. Even
Speaker 1: though it's a little bit scary to drive strangers in
Speaker 1: your car. I slowly branded out into Uber and Lifts,
Speaker 1: and since the money was just gotten much better. But
Speaker 1: driving for Uber and Lift came but a whole new
Speaker 1: set of risks that Hannah mostly didn't encounter while she
Speaker 1: was delivering food. If you're just dropping off food, you
Speaker 1: don't spend much time with the customers. It's it's pretty
Speaker 1: in and out. They don't really have the time to
Speaker 1: get to a point where they can do something inappropriate
Speaker 1: or something uncomfortable. Whereas with Uber and Lift, the passenger
Speaker 1: is alone with you for at least several minutes. That's
Speaker 1: enough time for things to get weird. For example, just
Speaker 1: days before I spoke with Hannah at the end of November,
Speaker 1: she picked up a man who she said was drunk.
Speaker 1: It slowly progressed to him asking about my love life
Speaker 1: and then telling me about his girlfriend of a month,
Speaker 1: and then him well but surely like trying to ask
Speaker 1: about what things I was into in the bedroom. And
Speaker 1: I finally got him to his destination, and when he
Speaker 1: tried when he went to get out of the car,
Speaker 1: and of course I'm relieved that he's getting out of
Speaker 1: my car at this point, um, he tried to like
Speaker 1: kiss my hand. And this kind of experience isn't unusual.
Speaker 1: Every day that I drive, every night that I drive,
Speaker 1: there is at least one questionable experience. I hate to
Speaker 1: be the person that's like, I'm scared, but yeah, there's
Speaker 1: always a fear of having the wrong person get into
Speaker 1: your car, or someone that is not respectful, or someone
Speaker 1: that is completely drunk and just does not care. As
Speaker 1: I got deeper into reporting, I noticed that it wasn't
Speaker 1: just that these women had an uncomfortable experience. These experiences
Speaker 1: led to real consequences. A lot of the women said
Speaker 1: that after a bad situation like the one we heard
Speaker 1: from from Hannah, they turned off the app and go home,
Speaker 1: even though they were planning on driving for longer. Some
Speaker 1: women told me it took them even a few days
Speaker 1: before they felt like driving again. Like Jody, who we
Speaker 1: heard from at the start of the show, There's been
Speaker 1: a few times where I've just been like I'm done,
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop doing this. I gotta stop for
Speaker 1: the day because I'm like on edge because I'm thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: what happened. As the next guy that comes in my
Speaker 1: car drives this stuff. You know, I'm driving at night,
Speaker 1: taking people home from the bars and everything, and you
Speaker 1: know it's just I'm I have to take a break
Speaker 1: because I have to get back into, you know, a
Speaker 1: different mindset than what those other people leave me in.
Speaker 1: Turning off the app, even for just a few days,
Speaker 1: definitely results in lost income. Going back to Hannah, the
Speaker 1: twenty four year old in Savannah, she told me it's
Speaker 1: because of those experiences that she isn't earning more money
Speaker 1: by driving more hours. Right now, she only drives between
Speaker 1: six and ten hours a week. I think the only
Speaker 1: thing keeping me from doing that with the it's terrible
Speaker 1: experiences that will turn you off from driving for a
Speaker 1: couple of days, or not even necessarily terrible, just just uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: So these are women who were driving in the first
Speaker 1: place because they're looking for additional income, but now because
Speaker 1: of an experience that made them feel uncomfortable or in safe,
Speaker 1: they're not driving as much. And that means they're missing
Speaker 1: out on the flexibility and opportunity of the gig economy.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the biggest economic trends of this decade. Okay,
Speaker 1: so so far, Selena, we've heard from Jody and Maine
Speaker 1: and Hannah and Georgia about their experiences in the gig economy,
Speaker 1: and many more women I spoke to for this story
Speaker 1: seemed to have gone through similar experiences and made similar observations. Right,
Speaker 1: and if one of the big promises of work in
Speaker 1: the gig economy is that it suits women and men equally,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe even has advantages for women who
Speaker 1: might value the flexibility so they could juggle work and
Speaker 1: family responsibilities, this kind of widespread harassment does seem to
Speaker 1: undermine the entire promise of the job. And the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's not just the anecdotal evidence that's pointing to these disparities.
Speaker 1: Economists are looking at it too. The labor economists at
Speaker 1: Stanford called Paul Oyer co author to study published earlier
Speaker 1: this year titled the Gender Earnings Gap in the Gig Economy.
Speaker 1: He worked on it with two other economics professors, as
Speaker 1: well as Uber's chief economist and Uber's data scientist at
Speaker 1: the time, what we are very interested in in the
Speaker 1: gig economy initially was and still are interested in us
Speaker 1: is it seems like a very good place, relatively speaking,
Speaker 1: for women because they might value the flexibility of choosing
Speaker 1: their own hours more. Paul worked with Uber to study
Speaker 1: a sample of more than one million drivers in the
Speaker 1: US between January and March. They found that men earned
Speaker 1: approximately seven percent more than women. So what explains that difference?
Speaker 1: So there were three big factors. One was a difference
Speaker 1: in driving speed. On average, men drive two point two
Speaker 1: percent faster than women, so they finished trips at a
Speaker 1: faster rate, which enlarges the pay gap. It's ironic and
Speaker 1: perhaps misdirected that the men are being compensated for driving
Speaker 1: faster right than perhaps less safely. We don't know for
Speaker 1: sure in the data, but it's certainly boosting their earnings. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what was the second factor. The second factor was
Speaker 1: the difference in where male and female drivers were picking
Speaker 1: up their passengers. One thing that works against women as
Speaker 1: Uber drivers is they live in neighborhoods and artists lucrative,
Speaker 1: and therefore they end up driving in neighborhoods at artists lucrative. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't understand this. Break this down a little bit.
Speaker 1: Why is that The data doesn't point to exactly why,
Speaker 1: but it did show that women Uber drivers tended to
Speaker 1: live in lower income neighborhoods, which means that the areas
Speaker 1: they're driving in don't earn them as much money. And
Speaker 1: the research also found that men were more willing to
Speaker 1: pick up people in neighborhoods with higher crime rates and
Speaker 1: with more drinking establishments. Okay, and what's the last factor
Speaker 1: that might explain the pay gap? The third factor was experienced, So,
Speaker 1: like any profession, the more experienced someone has, the more
Speaker 1: they make. And Paul found that on average, men were
Speaker 1: driving longer hours per week and they were also less
Speaker 1: likely to stop driving for Uber altogether, and that meant
Speaker 1: they were accumulating more experience as Uber drivers, like learning
Speaker 1: when and where to drive and how to strategically cancel
Speaker 1: and accept trips that allowed them to earn higher rates
Speaker 1: on the platform. Economists call that human capital. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that reminds me of what Jody and Hannah told us earlier,
Speaker 1: how they would stop driving for the night or even
Speaker 1: a few days after they had a bad experience. They're
Speaker 1: not only earning less because they're working fewer hours, but
Speaker 1: over time, they're missing out on the experiences so that
Speaker 1: they can earn more per hour to begin with, right,
Speaker 1: And that seemed to be paulse hunch too. So, um,
Speaker 1: there's some other things going on on this platform that
Speaker 1: make it more attractive for men for women. UM, I
Speaker 1: don't you know. I don't know if women don't feel us.
Speaker 1: I can't speak to this. I don't see that data.
Speaker 1: But you know, you could imagine they don't feel it's safe.
Speaker 1: You could imagine. Paul's big conclusion was this, even though
Speaker 1: it's great that these big economy jobs offer flexible work
Speaker 1: arrangements for women, that flexibility on its own isn't enough
Speaker 1: to close the gap between what women earn and what
Speaker 1: men earn. So Selena, I guess the next question is
Speaker 1: what are Uber and Left doing to tackle this well.
Speaker 1: First of all, Uber and Left both allowed drivers to
Speaker 1: report incidents in the app or through call line. For example,
Speaker 1: in that story we heard from Jody at the beginning,
Speaker 1: where a man was making her uncomfortable on a night drive.
Speaker 1: She reported that to Uber afterwards, and she told me
Speaker 1: that she's reported many many other incidents for being solicited
Speaker 1: for sex or for drugs. And what happens after a
Speaker 1: driver reports someone Joe He has said that in the
Speaker 1: past when she's made a report, the company told her
Speaker 1: she wouldn't be paired with the person again, and supposedly
Speaker 1: they will kick them off the flat, they'll investigate. It
Speaker 1: is what they always tell me, and usually I don't
Speaker 1: hear anything else from that except for you you won't
Speaker 1: be paired from with them again. However, I have ran
Speaker 1: into those people that I've been told I won't be
Speaker 1: paired with again, and still seeing them ordering Uber rides
Speaker 1: being picked up by other Uber drivers. Do you think
Speaker 1: Uber and Lift do enough to help women who are
Speaker 1: put in situations like this? Absolutely not. I don't. I
Speaker 1: really wholeheartedly believe that they've done slowly, and I find
Speaker 1: this to be outrageous. I mean, don't you think that
Speaker 1: there should be just a zero tolerance policy that these
Speaker 1: apps have towards passengers who act this way? Well, certainly,
Speaker 1: the sentiment from the women I spoke to is that
Speaker 1: there's a very high bar for conduct it comes to drivers,
Speaker 1: but for passengers, since they want as many writers as possible,
Speaker 1: the bar is pretty low, and you have to do
Speaker 1: something pretty terrible to get permanently. But in this case,
Speaker 1: the customer is not always right exactly. And I mean,
Speaker 1: even though Jodie has reported a lot of these incidents,
Speaker 1: many women don't. A lot of the ones I spoke
Speaker 1: to said they're worried that if they report their passengers
Speaker 1: for grasping them or even just rebuffing their advances in person,
Speaker 1: the passengers will retaliate by giving them a bad rating,
Speaker 1: report them for a serious infraction like drunk driving, and
Speaker 1: that has serious consequences for the drivers, like getting suspended
Speaker 1: from driving for multiple days while they conduct an investigation.
Speaker 1: They could even get kicked off the platform altogether. And
Speaker 1: many drivers depend on that income to pay their bills.
Speaker 1: So what do Uber and Left have to say about
Speaker 1: all this? So I spoke to Uber's head of safety
Speaker 1: and consumer protection policy, Stephanie Bryson. One of the most
Speaker 1: impactful things is that really the tone from the top
Speaker 1: has changed. She's referring to Uber's change in management dar
Speaker 1: Causra Shah. He became CEO last year, taking over from
Speaker 1: Travis Kalinik, and when Dara came in, he did a
Speaker 1: full review of the business, as you would expect any
Speaker 1: CEO to do, and coming out of that review, he
Speaker 1: said that we should commit to safety being the top
Speaker 1: priority of the company, and the company has really fallen
Speaker 1: in line behind that new safety features include this emergency
Speaker 1: button that connects drivers to nine one one, and a
Speaker 1: feature that makes it easier to share trips with friends
Speaker 1: and family. The company also eliminated forced arbitration agreements for employees, riders,
Speaker 1: and drivers who make sexual assault or harassment claims against
Speaker 1: the company, So that means that instead of resolving any
Speaker 1: legal claims in an arbitration hearing, people can actually take
Speaker 1: those claims to court. Stephanie also explained to me how
Speaker 1: Uber evaluates reports on inappropriate behavior from passengers. When a
Speaker 1: report does come in, UH, that is, it goes into
Speaker 1: our reporting flow and UH those instances that are safety
Speaker 1: related are flagged to a special team, and that team
Speaker 1: has received special training on trauma informed techniques as well
Speaker 1: as other training on handling sensitive or high sensitivity incidents,
Speaker 1: and it goes through a process of follow up. If
Speaker 1: it is a high severity incident, we will usually undertaken
Speaker 1: investigation two, speak with both sides of the encounter and
Speaker 1: trying to discern the facts and then make make a
Speaker 1: call on what next steps need to be taken. Finally,
Speaker 1: I asked her about the fears from sub women drivers
Speaker 1: that they feel like they were being given unfair ratings.
Speaker 1: If a driver feels that they were given an unfair
Speaker 1: rating as some kind of retaliation, it's really important that
Speaker 1: they report that to Uber so that we can take
Speaker 1: steps to make that right. Lift has similar features to Uber,
Speaker 1: though the company declined to offer anyone from the company
Speaker 1: to speak with me for the podcast, but in a
Speaker 1: written statement, the company said that safety is a top
Speaker 1: priority and that harassment isn't tolerated, and that that kind
Speaker 1: of behavior can lead to a permanent ban. Lift also
Speaker 1: said that it's announcing fifteen new features by the end
Speaker 1: of this year, many of which focus on driver's safety. Selena,
Speaker 1: are they doing anything to tag all those more nuanced
Speaker 1: forces at work that are keeping women in a disadvantage,
Speaker 1: the kind of factors that Paul Oyle told us about,
Speaker 1: like women driving slower and this searning less money, or
Speaker 1: the higher turnover rates for female drivers. So I did
Speaker 1: pose that question to Stephanie from Uber, and she mentioned
Speaker 1: that they have used that to help shape product decisions
Speaker 1: at a high level and they aren't done thinking about
Speaker 1: the studies findings, but she didn't have any specifics to
Speaker 1: tell me. So, Selena, is there anything that surprised you
Speaker 1: about your reporting. I was definitely surprised by the frequency
Speaker 1: of inappropriate experiences that these women faced. I mean, by
Speaker 1: and large, these women enjoy the flexibility, they enjoy the money,
Speaker 1: they chose to start on this platform, and they realize
Speaker 1: that they have to deal with this issue and that
Speaker 1: is just a nature of doing the job. And it's
Speaker 1: almost so sort of reality check for them, and they
Speaker 1: feel like it's no choice, but it's a reality they
Speaker 1: have to face, just like in day to day life.
Speaker 1: What do you think about these companies potentially using technology
Speaker 1: to solve one of the problems of their technology, So
Speaker 1: for example, making it easier for female drivers at night
Speaker 1: perhaps who might be feeling vulnerable in a in a
Speaker 1: certain neighborhood to solicit rides only from female passengers or
Speaker 1: female passengers, uh, from from just female drivers or like
Speaker 1: you know, a group that includes at least one female
Speaker 1: as are the companies talking about anything like that. So
Speaker 1: that's actually something that d D the Uber of China,
Speaker 1: tried so after several incidents where female passengers were allegedly
Speaker 1: assaulted by male drivers, they only wanted to match women
Speaker 1: with women in late hours. But the problem with that
Speaker 1: was that it cost a shortage of drivers that were
Speaker 1: available to women, since d D obviously doesn't have as
Speaker 1: many female drivers, and this was something I thought was
Speaker 1: really interesting. So on Uber, only about fifteen percent of
Speaker 1: the drivers are female, and on Lift is only about
Speaker 1: And if you look at the overall transportation industry, women
Speaker 1: actually make up a super small percentage of that and
Speaker 1: it's actually largely a result of safety concerts. So that's
Speaker 1: why there are so few women in the industry overall.
Speaker 1: That reminds me a sleen of some Uber history. Back
Speaker 1: in two fifteen, Uber had announced this partnership with with
Speaker 1: the United Nations Right to create a million jobs for
Speaker 1: women by which of course is now basically a year away.
Speaker 1: So remind us what happened with that partnership. Yeah, what's
Speaker 1: interesting is that I think a lot of what I
Speaker 1: spoke to with these women's about are reflected in the
Speaker 1: ultimate decision of the U n which was to cancel
Speaker 1: that partnership. I mean, just days after it was announced
Speaker 1: back in the International Transportation Federation published a letter saying
Speaker 1: Uber actually does not empower women, that it makes the
Speaker 1: labor market more and equal by denying people basic for
Speaker 1: tections like fair wages, job security and safety at work.
Speaker 1: So one of the women you talked to, I think
Speaker 1: was Hannah, said she was delivering food because of course
Speaker 1: then she doesn't need to put a passenger uh in
Speaker 1: the backseat. She maybe just has a pizza back there.
Speaker 1: Is that Is that a reasonable solution for women who
Speaker 1: might feel unsafe driving for Uber and left to just
Speaker 1: do another take another job in the gig economy. It's
Speaker 1: true that a lot of the women did like food
Speaker 1: delivery for the fact that they could actually bring their
Speaker 1: kids with them, but by and large, pretty much every
Speaker 1: woman I spoke to you said it wasn't as lucrative
Speaker 1: and they weren't making as much money and that that's
Speaker 1: why they were returning to Uber and left. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of a shame that the largest part of the
Speaker 1: gig economy would be off limits to some of the
Speaker 1: people who really need the flexibility and the earning opportunity
Speaker 1: the most. But I'm curious from your perspective, I mean,
Speaker 1: with Travis being out of the company back when he
Speaker 1: was really criticized for not dealing with sexual craftsman internally
Speaker 1: and in terms of drivers safety, do you think is
Speaker 1: really ushering this new way that the company is telling
Speaker 1: me about, well, he you know, he's certainly presenting a
Speaker 1: friendlier public face. But it goes back to one of
Speaker 1: the things that that some of our drivers told us about,
Speaker 1: which is that when they report bad behavior, they're not
Speaker 1: certain that it's being punished. And the great promise not
Speaker 1: of the gig economy, but of these kind of feedback
Speaker 1: rating mechanisms that are ubiquitous on the internet, you know,
Speaker 1: is that actions have consequences, right, and if you get
Speaker 1: a bad rating because you're a passenger and you try
Speaker 1: to hold your driver's hand, there should be zero tolerance.
Speaker 1: You know, that should be recorded on your record, and
Speaker 1: a future driver should know about it. And and you know,
Speaker 1: either you're out or drivers see it to see it
Speaker 1: in the form of a low rating and have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to decide not to pick you up. What it
Speaker 1: sounds like is that these companies are still so desperate
Speaker 1: for growth then they don't want to lose drivers, and
Speaker 1: they don't want to lose passengers that they're they're not
Speaker 1: enforcing their own enforcement mechanisms. So, Selena, before we finish up,
Speaker 1: what are Jody and Hannah's plans for the future. Do
Speaker 1: they want to keep driving. Hannah told me she will
Speaker 1: keep on driving. It's not bad money, it's good money. Um,
Speaker 1: direct up quickly. You can have some really pleasant experiences.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work from home mom. I'm around my children
Speaker 1: all the time. If you get social interaction with adults
Speaker 1: and not necessarily people that you would meet on a
Speaker 1: day to day basis. But Jody was less certain. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm at the point where as I liked it. I
Speaker 1: love the flexibility and everything, but the money just isn't
Speaker 1: consistent in us, and I feel, you know, there's no benefits.
Speaker 1: You know, some days, yeah, I'm doing great by making hour,
Speaker 1: but some days I'm not doing so great and I'm
Speaker 1: making fries. I mean, I would much rather have a
Speaker 1: full time jobs, even if it means me having to
Speaker 1: give a notice three weeks at a time for a
Speaker 1: day off. And that's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Are you a woman who drives for a
Speaker 1: lift or Ubert? We want to hear your story. You
Speaker 1: can email us at Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Selena underscore Y Underscore Way and
Speaker 1: I'm at brad Stone. If you're a fan of the show,
Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review us. It
Speaker 1: helps new listeners find the show. This episode was produced
Speaker 1: by Pio Gadkari and Liz Smith. Our story editor was
Speaker 1: Aki Edo. Thanks also to add Vandermay, Emily Busso, and
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson. Francesca Levi is head of Bloomberg Podcasts. This
Speaker 1: is our last episode for the season. We're taking the
Speaker 1: next few weeks off to work on new episodes, but
Speaker 1: we'll be back again in the spring. See you in
Speaker 1: the new year.