1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: No president should be able to sustain boots on the 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: ground without congressional approval and without a clear explanation of 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: what the mission is and what the endgame is. This 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: isn't really about them policy. This is about the coronavirus. 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and perspective from DC's top name. 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: We must use every school possible to defeat the desault 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: on women's reproductive rights. This is a steady growth that 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing here in our economy, you know, over the 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: last three months. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio Live from Washington, where tax hikes have been 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: approved by the House Ways and Means Committee, the same 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: higher corporate rate twenty six and a half, same capital 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: gains rate we told you about on Monday. We're gonna 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: get into the details in just a moment. And Republicans 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: are calling today calling on him to resign. Not Joe 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: by but the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: As a forthcoming book from Bob Woodward and Robert Costa says, 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: General Mark Milly held secret phone calls with his counterpart 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: in China behind the back of then President Donald Trump. 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about it. Just a moment with Alexander Vinman, 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: the retired Army lieutenant current who testified against Trump and 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: his first impeachment trial. The whistleblower says General Millie should 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: resign if this is in fact true, We'll bring it 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: to the panel as well. With Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: strategist Rick Davis, and Democratic strategist Scott Bolden with us 27 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: for the hour, and we want to start with breaking 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: news from Capitol Hill. Just hit the terminal. The headline, 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Tax likes to Pay for Biden agenda approved by House Committee, 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: the biggest set of US tax increases in a generation. 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: Take a major step forward. Approval by the House Ways 32 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: and Means Committee two point one trillion dollars in new levies, 33 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: mostly focused on corporations and the wealthy. Ways and Means 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: Chair Rich Neil, Democrat from Massachusetts. Just a moment ago 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: as parts, each individual measure we've approved of has the 36 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: potential to change lives. Taken together, these investments will transform 37 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,119 Speaker 1: our society to be more prosperous, equitable, and fair. It's 38 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: what the American people deserve a broader opportunity, and so 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: it passes ways and means. Again, this is just part 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: of the way. It's just the next step for businesses. 41 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: Top corporate tax rate twenty six point five percent from 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: twenty one. We knew that was coming. It extends tax 43 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: rules on sales of equities to cryptocurrencies and commodities for 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: the first time, leaving untouched breaks for oil and gas companies. 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: Interesting to note for individuals, the top tax rate restored 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: thirty nine point six percent. Again, we told you about 47 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: this on Monday that it was coming. Capital gains twenty 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: up from twenty and there's a special surtax on people 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: to make more than five million dollars a year, a 50 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: three percent surtax. Now the ink is still drying on this. 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: They just took the vote and we're going to talk 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: about it in more detail a little bit later on 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: this hour with Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick. The other major 54 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: headline today in Washington, when we're going to spend some 55 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: time on here from the forthcoming book by Bob Woodward 56 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: and Robert Costa's called Peril, that General Mark Milly, the 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff went behind then 58 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: President Trump's back in making secret phone calls to China 59 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: to avoid an armed conflict. The report says some Republican 60 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: senators and Donald Trump himself are crying treason. And here's 61 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: what we know. The Washington Post reports the first phone 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: call from Milly came four days before the election, when 63 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: he promised China the US was not planning an attack, 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: felt a need to do that. The second call came 65 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: two days after the insurrection at the U. S Capitol 66 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: in January. Milly reassured China his counterpart in Beijing that 67 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: democracy was still intact. A statement from Milly's spokesman has 68 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: a Rive, Colonel David Butler. He says Milly acted constitutionally 69 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: and continues to act and advise within his authority in 70 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: the lawful tradition of civilian control of the military. That 71 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: is a quote. Now we know President Biden stands by 72 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: the general. Made very brief comments today about that. For brief, 73 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: I have great confidence he said in an event today. 74 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: An unrelated event of the White House Press Secretary Jensaki 75 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: added a bit to that the President knows General Milly. 76 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: He has been chairman of the Joint Chiefs for almost 77 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: eight months of his presidency. They've worked side by side 78 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: through a range of international events, and the President has 79 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: complete confidence in his leadership, his patriotism, and his fidelity 80 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: to our constitution. With the story maybe about more than 81 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: just General Millie. As the day has gone on, Axios 82 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: now quoting a senior Defense official that Secretary of Defense 83 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: Mark Esper was also involved, writing quote Esper took the 84 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: initiative on this. In October, Asper asked his own policy 85 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: for Oakes to back channel the message, and Millie's message 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: followed Asper's unquote. Now we're joined to talk about all 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: of this by retired Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vinman, former 88 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: director for Eastern Europe, the Caucuses and Russia on the 89 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: White Houses National Security Council, and author of the book 90 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: Here Right Matters, which gets into his testimony against Donald 91 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: Trump and the first impeachment trial. Lieutenant Colonel, thank you 92 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: for being here. You've got a lot of attention by 93 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: tweeting that if these charges are true, General Millie should resign. 94 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: Do you still feel that way after all we've learned 95 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: in the last twenty four hours. I uh, you know, 96 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: there's always new information that's going to come out. Those 97 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: are first reports and uh, frankly in a lot of 98 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: ways uncorroborated. But I think that the issue is people 99 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: are fixated on the China component. The China component never 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: bothered me. The China component just seemed absolutely absurd that 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: the Chairman in their initial reports would warn an adversary 102 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: of an attack and what it sounded to me like 103 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: it is just typical standard running the mill counterpart conversations 104 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: that I participated in dozens of times between the head 105 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: of our military and the head of you know, another military. 106 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: Um so that that's not what bothered me. The reporting 107 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: that bothered me was the fact that Chairman Billie was 108 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: so concerned on multiple occasions. We heard it reported in 109 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: this book and Bob Woodwarsbergen carol Leone's book back in 110 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: January that he had made comments behind the scenes to officials, 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: but he never really took any actions to protect the 112 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: the the the to protect the country. That that bothered me. 113 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: It also bothered me the reporting about the actions that 114 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: he took with regards to nuclear command and control, that 115 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: he was going to uh insert himself in a way 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: that was not in accordance with a proper well, frankly 117 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: without accountability. If he was operating where he did not 118 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: inform warm civilian leadership of his actions. To me, that's 119 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: deeply troubling. That means the senior most military officer in 120 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: the U. S m. Forces was accountable to nobody but himself, 121 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: and I find that deeply troubling and subverting civil military norms. 122 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: That's right. That that is part of the book that 123 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: says General Milly. Just to be clear, Lieutenant Colonel, that 124 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: General Milly told those around him, officials in the military 125 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: that before they go anywhere else, if there is an 126 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: order from President Trump to launch the missiles or make 127 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: some sort of nuclear attack, they come to him first. 128 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: That's what you're talking about. That's that's right. And you 129 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: know the fact that he had those concerns is not 130 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: an issue. I had deep concerns about President Trump, There's 131 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: no question I had massive concerns. But the fact that 132 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: his recourse to do this was to subvert civil military 133 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: norms and instead of doing what would be much more courageous, 134 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: something similar to what Jim Mattis did when it considered 135 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: Trump ordered to withdrawal from Syria and Jim Mattis resigned 136 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: saying that this is not right. That's what a courageous 137 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: action would be. This was sharing some concern and subverting 138 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: civil military norms, and you can't just walk away from that. 139 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Has the accountability. I wrote a book about it. I 140 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: wrote about a book about you know, not going down 141 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: the road of situational ethics. If he did these things, 142 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: he can't stand position. He's frankly been a probably the 143 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: most controversial chairman that we've had since Curtis le may 144 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: or maybe even um, you know MacArthur, Douglas MacArthur. And 145 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't think the military needs somebody that's now perceived 146 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: as that political and actor. So your message, then, Alexander Vinman, 147 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: as one of the most famous whistleblowers in recent memory 148 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: here in Washington, is that General Mark Millie should have 149 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: blown the whistle. I think that's I think that's right. 150 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: I think frankly, in a lot of ways, um, what 151 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: he could have done in Creek key moments and where 152 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: where it would it mattered, not months later in you know, 153 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: books and reporting coming out of books and key moments 154 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: where truly mattered. He could have gone on record saying 155 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: this is not something that that will stand. This is 156 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: un American, whatever the case might be, he could have 157 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: carried his message that at that moment. And guess what, 158 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: He's not the single guard rail. There are more than 159 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: a half a dozen other chiefs that any one of 160 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: them could have stopped, stepped in and the job done. 161 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: The job as well, if not better. There is not 162 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: a single pro point of failure in the military where 163 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: we have an enormous amount of terrific officers, and he 164 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: could have he could have made his voice heard when 165 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: it really made a difference. I think I know how 166 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: you're going to answer this next question. But if in 167 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: fact the Secretary of Defense, Mark Asper was involved here 168 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: and took the initiative here going to going to the 169 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: extent of opening that back channel, and General Milly followed 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: Esper's lead, does that change your calculation or should General 171 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Milly have blown the whistle on the Defense Secretary. Well, 172 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, Like I said, I I've been 173 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: party to these kinds of co phone calls and meetings 174 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: for that matter on multiple occasions, and I that was 175 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: not I just didn't take it as credulous, uh, that 176 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: it was being reported as something like a secret meeting. 177 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: Of course, their secret meetings. So we're not going to 178 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: publicize all the meetings that we have between key leaders. 179 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: What what was what troubled me was the end run 180 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: around civilian leadership that's been reported on multiple times, when 181 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: the more right answer would have been too to make 182 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: your voice heard, to to make your voice heard and 183 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: to let the public know what was going on. You 184 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: cannot doing the wrong thing, even for the right reasons. 185 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: Must have consequences, right still matters in America. Actions must 186 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: have consequences. Talk to me more about the lawful tradition 187 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: of civilian control, as Colonel Dave Butler referred to Milly's 188 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: spokesman in his statement, the sanctity Lieutenant colonel of civilian control. 189 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: Why is it so important? I mean, this is one 190 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: of the things that really differentiates us from from many 191 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: many other militaries in which the military exercises authority not 192 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: over just uh, you know, the per view of defense, 193 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: but also in politics. That had been the case, let's say, 194 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: in Turkey in previous years where there were where the 195 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: military was the definitive force in Turkey prior to President 196 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: air Duan uh and there and that's certainly the case 197 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,599 Speaker 1: in Egypt. It's been historically the case in like the 198 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: German General Staff of going into World War One, there 199 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: are a lot of precedents that set the military kind 200 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: of above the law and accountable to no one. The 201 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: tradition in the U S Military is that we we 202 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: have a civilian chain command. UH. The chairman's role is 203 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: in in in that UH, in that process is to 204 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: advise not only just the President of the United States 205 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: provide best military, but to the President of the United 206 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: States but also to the Secretary of Defense. And there 207 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: were you know, there were. The Trump administration created so 208 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: many different challenges in so many different institutions. But if 209 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: we want norms to matter, if we want our our 210 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: returned back to to the norm appreciating the Trump administration, 211 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: then we need to frankly hold people who accountable. And 212 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel, we thank you for the insights. Alexander Vinman 213 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: rehired Army Lieutenant Colonel. The book is here right matters. 214 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg you Sound on with Joe Matthew 215 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us on Bloomberg Sound On. 216 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: As we assemble the panel now to talk more about 217 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: General Mark Milly and calls for his resignation, as the 218 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: new Woodward book says, Milly worked a back channel with 219 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: the Chinese to avoid armed conflict during the Trump administration. 220 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: As we just discussed with Alexander Vinman, were now joined 221 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: by Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican strategist Rick Davis, and Democratic 222 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: strategist Scott Bolden is with us for the hour partner 223 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: at the Washington firm Read Smith. Welcome to both of you. 224 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, should General Millie in fact resign if this 225 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: is true, even if then Secretary Mark Asper was involved. Yeah, 226 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: I think that the key thing you you point out 227 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: is if this is true, right, I mean, we've heard 228 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: from his spokesperson that many of these communications that are 229 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: now described in a book, which, of course, uh you know, 230 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: Bob Woodward and his co writer are writing in order 231 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: to sell, and so sensationalism sometimes is good for business 232 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: if you're a book writer. His folksman didn't deny any 233 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: of it them. Yeah, well, but he didn't deny, but 234 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: he said they were much more in the normal course 235 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: of activity. I mean, we know that this joint chiefs communicate, 236 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: especially the chairman, with their counterparts in Russia and China 237 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: on a regular basis. And and I'm not diminishing the 238 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: fact that these were pretty unusual times and he took 239 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: unusual measures. But if indeed um Secretary Aspert at the 240 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: time was aware of the things and and and had 241 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: condoned them, then he has satisfied to some degree the 242 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: chain of command that that he has required to report 243 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: to his top civilian leadership. Scott, where are you on this? 244 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Did did General Milly violate the constitution if he was 245 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: working back channels? Well, he's only obligated to follow uh 246 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: constitutional orders. Let's not forget that. And you had an 247 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: American democracy in crisis. He had the insurrectionists as of 248 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: January six, although my gut is it took place before that. 249 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: But he was trying to save democracy. The bigger question 250 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: here is why did General Milley, a decorated serviceman, believed 251 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: that America was at risk and that we had a 252 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: president that was mentally unstable having manifested it in several ways, 253 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: and that was his job. Let's say it is true 254 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: that it's his it was his job to protect America, 255 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: but to protect the rest of the world. Now, there 256 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: were several people on that call. I agree with Rick 257 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it was as dramatic of a call 258 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: as the book makes it out to be. But I 259 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: do think that Milly and others, including Nancy Pelosi, we're 260 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: very concerned about what the president was doing and thinking 261 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: and his irrat behavior between November second or third up 262 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,479 Speaker 1: until inauguration day UH. And I think those are legitimate 263 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: concern And I think, Milly Uh, you have to look 264 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: at what he was looking and seeing and feeling as 265 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: a professional joint chief of staff, head of Joint chiefs 266 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: of jaff staff, in regard to what he thought was necessary. 267 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: And I think he's got to give difference to him 268 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: if this is true. There were two calls, as we 269 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. One was right before the election day two 270 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: days as well after the insurrection of the capital, the 271 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol in January. Jensaki, the White House 272 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: Press Secretary, of course, asked about this repeatedly today. She 273 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: tried to put it in context. I think it's a 274 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: portant to consider some of the context, key context of 275 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: this period and time of time and history that we're discussing, 276 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: and as outlined, are covered in portions of UH this book. UM. 277 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: The outgoing president of the United States during this period 278 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: of time fermented unrest, leading to an insurrection and an 279 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: attack on our nation's capital. And Rick, we know that 280 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: General Millie had issues with Donald Trump, remembering the whole 281 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: throw down on Lafayette Square. When they cleared out the protesters, 282 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: the President held the Bible up in front of the 283 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: church across the street and was joined by several high 284 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: ranking officials, including uh the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. 285 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: And Mark Milly apologized for that after as many of 286 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: you saw the result of the photograph of me at 287 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: Lafayette Square last week that sparked a national debate about 288 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: the role of the military and civil society. I should 289 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: not have been there. My presence in that moment and 290 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: in that environment created a perception of the military involved 291 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: in domestic politics as it commissioned uniformed officer. It was 292 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: a mistake that I've learned from. Of course, Donald Trump 293 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: was not a fan of that statement, Rick Davis, But 294 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: is it a good thing to have a skeptical Chairman 295 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: of the Joint Chiefs or do we need to have 296 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: someone who supports the commander in chief while advising him. Well, 297 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: I think this is a really open question that that 298 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: should be thoroughly debated today. UM, the Trump administration UH 299 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: really violated a lot of the established norms that were 300 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: UH typical prior to his presidency. In that same group 301 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: that walked through Lafayette Square was the Attorney General? What 302 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: was he doing in Lafayette Square? But it looked like 303 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: a political event? Secretary Defense was there. Typically these are 304 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: individuals who do not attend political events, but those norms 305 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: were violated in the in the Trump administration. And I 306 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: think it deserves time that we use in this instance 307 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: to look back and say, what is the proper role 308 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: of the military, What is the proper role of the 309 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: attorney general in an admistration that might try to politicize it. 310 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: This Defense Department was not the only agency that was 311 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: politicized during the Trump administration. Scott Bold and I only 312 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: have a minute. Is that the point of that job 313 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: the person advising the president on military matters? I don't 314 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: I don't want any advisor UH to completely agree with me. 315 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: I want advisors around me that abrupt, bright, talented, but 316 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: I also want them to push back when they think 317 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, And I want their view of the world 318 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: because my view of the world isn't the only one, 319 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: and so I think a chairman of Joint Chiefs and 320 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: Staff certainly has to be supportive of the president. He's 321 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: the commander in chief, but he's got to give his 322 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: honest assessment protect me to find this country and do 323 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: what's best in that role. Broadcasting live from our nation's capital, 324 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to Boston, Bloomberg 325 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty 326 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: to the Country Series x M General one nine and 327 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio 328 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew. 329 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: Democrats on Capitol Hill filling in more blanks in their 330 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: three and a half trillion dollar reconciliation bill, the House 331 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: Ways and Means Committee with a breaker less than an 332 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: hour ago, passing over two trillion dollars in tax hikes 333 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: for business and the wealthy, as we told you at 334 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: the top of the hour, including the twenty six point 335 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: five percent corporate tax rate, saw that coming capital gains 336 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: tax rate, told you about that Monday. Here we are 337 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: and the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee today past a 338 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: fifty seven billion dollar bill that would cut greenhouse gas 339 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: emissions and fight climate change. This too, would become part 340 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: of the overall reconciliation bill. I talked details on this 341 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: with White House National Climate Advisor Gina McCarthy. Thanks, Joe, 342 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: it's great to be with You. Started by asking about 343 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: where all the climate spending would go. So we are 344 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: looking at opportunities for more than three hundred billion dollars 345 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: in the reconciliation package for incentives for businesses and consumers 346 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: that are going to really drive good paying manufacturing jobs forward, 347 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: move clean energy technologies forward. You know, we have to 348 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: win the job growth in the twenty one century of 349 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: the future. So we're looking at a hundred and nine 350 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: billion dollars and investments and storage and wind and batteries 351 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: and transmission. We're looking at sixty billion for new electric 352 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: vehicle purchases so consumers can can actually drive the cause 353 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: of today in the future. We're looking at twenty billion 354 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: dollars and home energy efficiency upgrades, and fifty billion and 355 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: clean energy manufacturing and cobb and capture and sequestration. We 356 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: are looking at, you know, ten bills billion to support 357 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: existing nuclear We are looking at a suite of clean 358 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: energy investments that will tackle this climate crisis. But but 359 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: equally importantly, that's going to put us on a footing 360 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: to provide leadership into nationally on this and when the 361 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: twenty one century and then and the lastly, we we 362 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: have an exciting thirty billion dollar proposal that's in there 363 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: that's going to create a new civilian climate core, and 364 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: that this is really about serving the needs of of 365 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: of individuals who are looking to actually have work or 366 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: transition happens from the fossil industry where we're losing jobs 367 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: into the new clean energy industry. We're looking at engaging 368 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: young people as well as our old people and getting 369 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: out and doing work in the natural world because that's 370 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: going to be important as a cobb and sink opportunity. 371 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: But it's more about making sure that people are get 372 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: being prepared for the jobs of the future. Now. It 373 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: has a lot of workplace development opportunities, a lot of 374 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: training and working with the unions on programs to get 375 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: people ready for a union job. So this is way 376 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: more than a climate exid Well, the specifics are helpful 377 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: because people talk about initiatives to fight climate change and 378 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: and these dollar figures help. But I'd also love to 379 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: ask you about priorities within that menu that that you 380 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: just laid out. You were with President Biden, of course, 381 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: on the trip to New York to see the damage 382 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: from Hurricane Ida. What do we need specifically to prevent 383 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: the kind of flooding we saw in and around New 384 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: York for instance. Yeah, well that's where the first package, 385 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: the real infrastructure package comes in. You know, we just 386 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: frankly stopped investing in ourselves. You know when we I 387 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: went with the President when we went to New York 388 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: and New Jersey, and the devastations clear, and it's in 389 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: communities where if you drove down the street, you would 390 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: never expect they could be flooded. You know, I have 391 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: a son that it was in Maplewood, New Jersey, and 392 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: he was flooded. You know, he lost his furnace and 393 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: his water heater and it was all sewage back backflow 394 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: into his basement. You know, it's challenging because you'd never 395 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: think that he was an area that would need flood insurance. 396 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: They don't even offer it really in those areas. But 397 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: so we have to think about not just building and rebuilding. 398 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: What was we have to think about building it back better. 399 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: And that's why it's really important to look at the 400 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: Infrastructure deal because that includes a hundred and ten billion 401 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: dollars for roads and bridges and other projects that are 402 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: going to allow us to continue to invest in in 403 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: resilient technology. We're talking about passenger and freight railists sixties 404 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: six billion, so we can fund highways and potestrian safety programs, 405 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: pipeline safety and other projects. We're looking at thirty nine 406 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: point two billions for public transit. We're looking at a 407 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: power rid that can stand up to these challenges. Thanks 408 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: to Gina McCarthy, the first White House National Climate Advisor, 409 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: for walking us through that makes me feel like I'm 410 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: back in Jamaica plane when i hear her talk. But 411 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: we connect the dots on all of this now with 412 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg governments, Jack Fitzpatrick, who has been living in the 413 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: halls of the US Capital as usual, Jack, committees are 414 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: finally clearing some real legislation. We just talked to McCarthy 415 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: about some of the climate provisions and some of those, 416 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: by the way, have yet to move. And then we 417 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: have ways and means today. That's awfully important. As Richard 418 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Neil congratulates members of his committee for for clearing the 419 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: tax hikes that we were talking about at the beginning 420 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: of this week. Any major surprises in the tax levels 421 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: or did this go through committee as expected? Jack? The 422 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: actual legislation went through the committee as expected. The bigger 423 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: question and the bigger variable for getting this into actually 424 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: be signed into law, is how has it scored. A 425 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: couple of days ago, the Ooing Committee on Taxation said 426 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: that this would bring in, as you mentioned, two point 427 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: one trillion dollars in revenue. If you subtract the tax 428 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: credits for that, that leaves them with a net of 429 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: eight seventy one billion in revenue um. That's not quite 430 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: as much as Democrats want. They may have to rely, 431 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, we use the phrase dynamic scoring when they're 432 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: talking about how to pay for this. They may have 433 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: to get into some some gimmicky stuff, but really the 434 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: changes that are likely to be made when they talk 435 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: to the Senate, that's a significant X factor. H. And 436 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: also we're we're hearing from some complaints from moderates. Even 437 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: in the House there were three no votes on some provisions, 438 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: and the Energy and Commerce UH Committee today you can 439 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: only afford to lose three votes and still have a 440 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,959 Speaker 1: majority on the House floor. So clearly the Democrats are 441 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: not quite near the finish line. But really they are 442 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: inching forward and basically advancing the legislation that they said 443 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: they would advance. It's just that there's a lot of 444 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: work left to do with the Moderates and with the Senate. 445 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: How about in terms of climate spending, Jack, this is 446 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee fifty seven point three billion dollars. 447 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: Peter DeFazio, the chair, said that negotiations with the Senate 448 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: have been tortuous over this whole reconciliation bill. I I 449 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: can only assume this is not going to be enough 450 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: money for some and it's going to be too much 451 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: money for Republicans. What does that number tell us, Yes, 452 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: it's clearly too much for Republicans. That honestly doesn't really 453 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: matter right now because Democrats are committed to a partisan 454 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: path forward through reconciliation. Uh, you know, for some reason, 455 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: it hasn't been the main focus of what Senator Joe 456 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: Manson has brought up, despite him obviously coming from a 457 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: whole state. We'll see if he pushes back more specifically 458 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: on the climate measures. Really a lot of the back 459 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: and forth between leadership and moderates has been on the 460 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: broader issues of what's the overall cost of this. So 461 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: I've been a little surprised that there hasn't quite been 462 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: um as much of an uproar or just even among 463 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: the Democrats on the climate measures. They've moved forward on that, 464 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: but that that could be a really tough one. Even 465 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: if Mansion is happy with the top line number, climate 466 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: provisions could become a very difficult subject in the Senate. Yeah, 467 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: we're this This might be a little bit of a 468 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: sneak peak. I think you're right on the spot there, Jack. 469 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: We heard from the president and CEO of America's Power 470 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: that's a trade group for the coal fired power industry, 471 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: said this legislation would eliminate coal fired electricity by if 472 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: not sooner. I have a feeling that Joe Mansion might 473 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: have something to say about that. Great to talk with you, Jack, 474 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: Keep up the great work at Bloomberg Government. You're listening 475 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg you sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 476 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: So we talked about the tax hikes, we talked about 477 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: the climate spending, both passing House committees today, But what 478 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: about the debt ceiling? It's looking more like Democrats really 479 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: they have to go it alone here. There's no eel 480 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: and it's not going to be part of reconciliation. As 481 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: we know. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell telling punch Bowl today, 482 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: do you guys think I'm bluffing saying about Democrats? They're 483 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: in charge of this government. They've been trying to demonstrate 484 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: that all year in party line votes to jam us 485 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: they will raise the debt ceiling unquote. And we talk 486 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: about all this now with the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributed 487 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: Republican strategist Rick Davis back with us and for the hour, 488 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: Democratic strategist Scott Bold and former chair of the DC 489 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. I'm gonna ask you both the same question. 490 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: I'll start with you, Scott. Do you believe Mitch McConnell. Absolutely, 491 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: I believe McConnell. So Democrats have to go it alone. Oh, 492 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: there's no question about it. The Republicans are going to 493 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: be to stand together. They always staying together, especially on 494 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: a three point five trillion dollar spending bill. They stood 495 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: together during Trump when they reduced taxes for the rich 496 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: and the corporations. They blew a whole provily uh devoicit ceiling. 497 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: And so after a conciliation, the Democrats have to keep 498 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: their um constituents together and keep keep their party together 499 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: on the House and Senate, and that's a bigger challenge. 500 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: And the Republicans had on the Trump because you've got 501 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: two congressmen, I'm sorry to two senators, one from West 502 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: Virginian one from Arizona who are pretty independent, and Biden 503 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: has met with them today to try to get them 504 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: on board because both of them want a smaller package. 505 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: So this bill is far from over. It's historic, without 506 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: a doubt, but it's not done yet. So it sounds 507 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: to me like it's the dead ceiling is not going 508 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: in the CR the continuing resolution to fund the government here, 509 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: Rick Davis is gonna have to be a standalone Democratic vote. Yeah, 510 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: I think that. You gotta believe what Mitch McConnell is saying. 511 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: He's being very direct about this, which is not actually 512 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: his typical He's even said, look, I've voted for debt 513 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: limits before when I had do I walk the plank. 514 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: Nobody likes that. He's like, now it's your turn, you're 515 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: in charge. Of the White the White House, the Senate, 516 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: in the House, where why am I getting these questions? 517 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: It's not my business is waiting exactly. So so you 518 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: guys walk the plank this time. And I think he's 519 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: serious about that. Nancy Pelosi would tell you this is 520 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: Trump's credit card, though, how come Democrats are paying it 521 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: off because they're in charge. You want to raise the 522 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: that element, you want to keep spending. I mean, like 523 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, last thing Fancy Pelosi wants to do is 524 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: start sounding like a deficit hawk. Right now you're here, 525 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: So let's talk about that evolution. By the way, if 526 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: it's an evolution, maybe you just see it as being fair. 527 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, here's Mitch McConnell this month, this is the 528 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: fourteenth of September, talking about raising the death ceiling. If 529 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: they want to do all of this on a partisan basis, 530 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: they have the ability and the responsibility to ensure that 531 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: the federal government not default and they will have to 532 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: take care of that all right. Now, to Rick's point, 533 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: this is Mitch McConnell in July of teen deally, we 534 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: would deal with the death feeling before they all go three. 535 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: Thing to be trying to spending cuts in your life. 536 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: We'll see, but the death saying must be raised. Okay, 537 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: thanks everybody, Okay, goodbye, So Scott, how does that work? Then? 538 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: What vehicle should Democrats use? Throw it into reconciliation. But 539 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: I don't think they have much choice but to throw 540 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: it in the reconciliation. Uh. They may have to deal 541 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: with a separately, but I don't see one Democrat or 542 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: the White House talking about, uh, any separate motive. They 543 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: haven't really dealt with it. They haven't said what they're 544 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: gonna do. And that's another reason to look at it. 545 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: But let me tell you how the Democrats see this. 546 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: That under the Republicans, there were no deaficit hawks, there 547 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: were no fiscal hawks, and the death sailing they blew 548 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: a hole through that by reducing taxes for corporations and 549 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: the wealthy. And so now the Democrats see their trillion dollars, 550 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: the three point five trillion dollar bill as not only 551 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: a spending bill, but one is going to transform America. 552 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: That's going to help those with health care and Medicare coverage, education, 553 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: climate change, in immigration, what they think the money will 554 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: be well spent and be transformative for a hard working 555 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: class Americans in this country, and so they're spending obligations 556 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: or their priorities are just very different. But they're gonna 557 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: have to deal with the depth feeling one way or 558 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: the other. And they're gonna have to go it alone 559 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: because I don't see one Republican voting for this, and 560 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't think the Democrats are even trying to appeal 561 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: any of them away. They can do it through reconciliation, 562 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: but they've got to keep their their groups together, the 563 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: House and Senate Dems together, and they're a long way 564 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: from that. All the more stuff you put in reconciliation, 565 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: the bigger the price to act. The hard the harder 566 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: it is to keep matching and Cinema here, Rick Davis, 567 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: h what do you make of the tax hikes here? Rick, 568 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: they came out as expected on Monday, twenty six and 569 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: a half percent corporate five percent capital gains does not 570 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: bring you to three and a half trillion dollars. The Democrats, 571 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: even with dynamic scoring, won't likely have enough revenue generated 572 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: to hit that mark. Oh and I think that, Uh, 573 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: the point is that you take the tax credits out 574 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: of this tax package, and and and you're down to 575 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: less than a trillion dollars of revenue. So they've got 576 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: a long way to go before they're gonna have a 577 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: quote paid for package. And I think this is what 578 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: Senator Mansion has been fighting Richie neil On so hard 579 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: over the child tax credit. You know, he wants the 580 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: Center wants the means test it, you know, reduce the 581 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: burden that they have to find on tax UH increases 582 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: by limiting the child tax credit. But this is Richie's 583 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: big deal. He wants that child tax credit for everybody, 584 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: and so he's gonna have to find a way to 585 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: pay for it. And that's the biggest credit that's sucking 586 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: out all that tax revenue. Well, so, Scott, do you 587 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: need to raise more money or lower the price tag? 588 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: Well probably a little bit of both. You haven't heard recently, 589 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: but the Democrats are gonna start talking about the I 590 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: R S collecting more taxes, cracking down on tax sheets, 591 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: tax sheets, the defense by get in contractors, bringing them 592 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: into compliance, and all of those kind of nuanced soft 593 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: revenue generators that budgeteers like to throw in as a 594 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: way of making the numbers work. I don't think anybody 595 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: believes those types of numbers, with those types of machinations. 596 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: But I think you're going to see a combination of 597 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: deals being done. I think you're going to see a 598 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: smaller bill, even though Bernie Sanders and the progressive left 599 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: on the House and Senate don't want to see that. 600 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't see anywhere around it. So look for a 601 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: smaller bill, if you will. If it's a huge bill, 602 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: so a smaller bill Silpi and the trillions, and also 603 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: look for some deals to bring cinema and matching a board, 604 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: especially on the on the Green Deal, especially on the 605 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: climate change issues. Because of where he's from. How do 606 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: you get Rick Davis Alexandria Cassier Cortez then to vote 607 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: for this while she's wearing a dress to the met 608 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: gala that says tax the rich. I think they've got 609 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: to have a pack because the taxes the rich. And 610 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: they've done a lot of that in this two point 611 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: one they had that Richie Neil has just announced, so 612 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: she's probably pretty happy right now. Um, but look, she's 613 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: she's gonna be hard to deal with. I mean, like 614 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: you know, this week, she's emerged as the enemy of 615 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: Jerome's Powell uh in his reappointment over the fact that 616 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: he doesn't do enough on climate. So I think Scott's right. 617 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, like I can't wait to see that chain fight. 618 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: I mean when she goes head to head with Mansion 619 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: over climate issues embedded in you know, the in the package. 620 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: So look, the bottom line on all this is if 621 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: anybody thought this stuff was gonna get done in September, 622 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: they're wrong. Uh. This is going to take well into 623 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: the fall, if not into the winter. Uh. That's going 624 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: to even create more pressure on issues like the Continuing 625 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: Resolution and the debt ceiling, and and and Pelosi has 626 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: got a commitment to the moderates in her own party 627 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: in the House to vote on this infrastructure bill on 628 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: the seventh and they're not going to be done with 629 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: the reconciliation bill by the time that happened. So the 630 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: question is, like, where does this railroad end? I mean, 631 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: it's just, uh, there's a lot of things for the 632 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: Democratic Caucus to do in a very short And Scott, 633 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 1: how does Nancy Pelosi keep the moderates happy after promising 634 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: that vote by she's gonna they're gonna hold her to it. Uh. 635 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: And she's gonna have to cut deals with the progressives 636 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: and the alternative and Remember, we still got an infrastructure 637 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: bill that everyone says can be a bipartisan bill, and 638 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: we haven't even started talking. We've talked about that off 639 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: and on, but I think there's some commitments to try 640 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: to get that done in September, which is not These 641 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: are tight deadlines. And so when they're tight deadlines, and 642 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: my experience, you cut quick deals. It'll be interesting whether 643 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: anybody on the House or Cynicide reads every line of 644 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: the ultimate or the final bill, if you will. But 645 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: she's gonna have to modify her deals with the moderate, 646 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: she's gonna have to cut her deals with the progressive. 647 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: I think everyone's gonna be un happy, and then the 648 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: unit fine point will be they pass something. And that's 649 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: usually how it happens. Everyone being unhappy is probably a 650 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: good thing in this case, isn't it, Rick Davis? I mean, 651 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 1: at this point, when everyone's back is against the wall, 652 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: isn't that when the deals are struck? Yeah? I think 653 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: that time pressure is the only thing that brings everybody 654 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: to the table, and and and the negotiations begin in 655 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: earnest and I agree that the day Joe Biden signs 656 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: any of these pieces of legislation, no matter how painful 657 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: it was. They're all going to be standing behind them, 658 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: smiling from ear to ear, and they're going to use 659 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: it in their campaigns in their home states and districts, 660 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: both the Republicans and Democrats for the mid terms. They're 661 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: gonna have their own take on it. Well, that's the 662 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: ultimate sweetener here, isn't it. It's it's everyone's own self interest. 663 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: You've got to go home and take credit for something, 664 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: whether it's a road, a bridge, climate spending in the 665 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: case of Democrats, even childcare. If we get to that point. 666 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: We haven't filled that out yet, Scott. When do we 667 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: hear about childcare? Well, that's in the bill for sure, 668 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: And as Rick said earlier, the Chairman wants that child 669 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: child tech care credit for everyone. But that's in the bill, 670 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: if you will. And that's a that's a hard piece 671 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: to give up with the Democrats because that's part of 672 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: what they're what they've run on and have run on significantly, 673 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: and so I don't see them walking away from that. 674 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: That will be a hard pill. That's Democratic strategist Scott Bolden, 675 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: he's former chair of the DC Democratic Party, and of 676 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: course our veteran panelist Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributor who's 677 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: seen this movie before. This is why they call it 678 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: the Fastest hour in politics. Better strap in, because we're 679 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: gonna do it again tomorrow. I'll meet you back here. 680 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew, and this is Bloomberg