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Speaker 1: Previously when after the uprising, you know, you.

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Speaker 2: Still got a life that has a tab on it

3
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Speaker 2: from your past endeavors.

4
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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. Two weeks before he died.

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Speaker 4: He kind of started shifted and hanging out with cats

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Speaker 4: that none of us really trusted.

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Speaker 2: He was still or an argument where the argument took

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Speaker 2: place a we're really you know what, I'm there where

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Speaker 2: he was killed the argument.

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Speaker 5: Can you give me any sense of what the argument

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Speaker 5: would have been over music?

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Speaker 6: Yaybor was cause the point my son was over with

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Speaker 6: Green Valley.

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Speaker 2: Jaber used to bost everybody in his neighborhood, Calciport.

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Speaker 6: This case never got issued, However, I do see, mister d.

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Speaker 7: Was there an official reason for holding off on prosecuting

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Speaker 7: Anthony Irvin at the time?

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Speaker 6: You know, I do not know. This is so old

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Speaker 6: and both of the attorneys that review this are gone.

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Speaker 8: What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand

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Speaker 8: jury deciding not to indict off.

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Speaker 7: Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer

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Speaker 7: set his car on fire.

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Speaker 8: Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body

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Speaker 8: inside with a gunshop.

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Speaker 9: I want a gun on me, am, I am I

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Speaker 9: footing you all the brothers Ferguson PD grab me by

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Speaker 9: my heart, slam me out the corn.

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Speaker 4: He says, you might want you might want to pick

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Speaker 4: your enemies better.

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Speaker 7: This is after the Uprising season two, the murder of

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Speaker 7: Darren Seals h a lot of killing going on.

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Speaker 10: His way down and the stupid night Good.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people came down in my neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: The music you just heard is the song Neighborhood performed

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Speaker 1: by the Bottom Boys. Back in episode three, sure If,

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Speaker 1: Allen told us that he had heard Darren Seals was

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Speaker 1: murdered by someone from the rap group that Darren was managing,

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Speaker 1: and that the murder was the result of an argument

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Speaker 1: about music, and that it had something to do with

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Speaker 1: a failed attempt at getting a record deal with Rockney.

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Speaker 1: Asking the members of the Bottom Boys themselves about all

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Speaker 1: of this would be the best way to get to

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Speaker 1: the truth. But for most of the time that we

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Speaker 1: spent working on this investigation, that has presented a series

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Speaker 1: of difficulties. Obviously, as we covered extensively in the last episode,

47
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Speaker 1: Kilo himself was murdered, so we'll never talk to him

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Speaker 1: and the group members Ricky Smith, who went by the

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Speaker 1: name LR and Lopez Watson Simms aka LP, were both incarcerated.

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Speaker 1: While it is sometimes possible to arrange interviews with people

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Speaker 1: in prison, it requires approvals that are not always granted.

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Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty three, when we found out LR

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Speaker 1: had been released, we got in touch with him right away.

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Speaker 2: Oh cool, but you know I just recently got released

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Speaker 2: from federal penitentiary.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I know, I know, And I'm sure you're happy

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Speaker 11: to be home too.

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Speaker 12: For person, Like I'm better than I was. Like I

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Speaker 12: wasn't really a bad guy team, you know.

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Speaker 2: What I'm saying, But it's just like I just really

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Speaker 2: had to sit down and you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: get in touch with.

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Speaker 12: The higher power. So like that was career, to be

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Speaker 12: honest with you, Like my last six months is when

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Speaker 12: I started talking.

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Speaker 2: About God and getting the buyle on stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: and I just brung it out here because I feel

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Speaker 2: like that's the only way, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: the working for them.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm just gonna stick with that. And just you know,

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Speaker 12: I got talents. I can wrap my box, you know

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Speaker 12: what I'm saying. I got a lot of talents.

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Speaker 2: So as long as I put guy first, and as

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Speaker 2: long as I just keep on staying positive and focus,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 12: I think I'm gonna be cool.

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Speaker 1: Trying to understand the Bottom Boys from a distance years

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Speaker 1: after the group ceased to exist was actually kind of tricky.

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Speaker 1: We listened to the songs they had posted on SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and sifted through a lot of Facebook posts referencing the group,

81
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Speaker 1: but it was the music videos on YouTube, including some

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Speaker 1: live performances, that kind of threw us. The Bottom Boys

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Speaker 1: seem to do features with other artists, and on stage

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Speaker 1: as they performed, there were always more than three people present,

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Speaker 1: and these may have been.

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Speaker 13: Entourage or hype men.

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Speaker 1: We weren't sure. So when speaking with l R, I

88
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Speaker 1: first wanted him to just talk about the group and

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Speaker 1: confirm our understanding that there were only three official members.

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Speaker 12: HiT's three.

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Speaker 2: It's just any song we get on, we all try

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Speaker 2: to like do it like it's a group.

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Speaker 12: Three of us, you know what I'm saying, Like.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you know, me and he might writ talk and

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Speaker 2: just do us, you know what I'm saying, And sometimes

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Speaker 2: you know, Kilo do it here man.

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Speaker 12: Sometimes you know, we just do it like dam man,

98
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Speaker 12: it's just three of us. Really to be honest with you,

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Speaker 12: I was the most I want to put it out

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Speaker 12: like the Bad Way, but.

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Speaker 2: I was like feal focus, you know what I'm saying,

102
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Speaker 2: like when I go to the studios, like I'm just.

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Speaker 12: Trying to make it.

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Speaker 1: We played a clip in the last episode of one

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Speaker 1: of the Bottom Boy songs called Can't So it was

106
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Speaker 1: the song in which Keilo raps at you have to

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Speaker 1: watch your homeboys and watch the ones you kick with.

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Speaker 1: Here's l R's first from that song, got don't got.

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Speaker 14: Money, don't need no hoss, need to zero, and I

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Speaker 14: can't go and I can't go taking any building, taking

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Speaker 14: them whelfa, all of my nigga fall, full of my niggas.

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Speaker 12: It's just all I came from.

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Speaker 2: Probably is we just all wanted to be something, you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So they reached out to me

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Speaker 2: and asked me did I want.

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Speaker 12: To join it? And then after that, you know, we're

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Speaker 12: just thinking music, doing shows. He's on the radio, stuff

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Speaker 12: like that.

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Speaker 2: Bottom Boys, we just all came from the bottom.

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Speaker 12: Like mother, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Probably not start for readA, probably in jail and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that. So we just only made sense from and

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Speaker 2: then like we're from the bottom of our neighborhood, you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like I'm from the bottom. With

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Speaker 2: Ken in LP, I think they from the bottom und

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Speaker 2: Castle Point or whatever. So we just all call ourselves

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Speaker 2: bottom boys or whatever.

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Speaker 12: And we just all joined up and we was all

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Speaker 12: good at rapping.

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Speaker 2: So we just all just winked up.

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Speaker 12: You know, three brands definitely better than one.

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Speaker 2: So we just all linked up together, and we was

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Speaker 2: trying to make something happen, you know, especially get up

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Speaker 2: get about the environments that we was in.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, one thing Laura wanted people to understand was

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Speaker 1: that Darren was a very positive force in his life

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Speaker 1: and in the lives of the other members of the group.

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Speaker 2: I just say, you know, like starting off with Darren,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like durn Man, he was

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Speaker 2: a you know what I'm saying, He was a definitely

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Speaker 2: positive influence. He didn't bring no negative energy around you like,

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Speaker 2: stay positive. And he wanted to see us do good,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: And in order for us to do.

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Speaker 12: Good, we had to take the steps.

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Speaker 2: When he was making those sacrifices for us, he'd make

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Speaker 2: sure we go to the studio, studio time man clothed,

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Speaker 2: ill need closed uff like that. Like he was just

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Speaker 2: definitely like mentor and send me know I'm saying, so

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Speaker 2: always in my mind he ever lived, so yeah, Darren

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Speaker 2: just he always been a positive influence.

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Speaker 1: LR felt like Darren was a big brother to him.

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Speaker 1: They would hang out frequently, and LR was even with

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Speaker 1: Darren the day before he died, and LR believed that

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Speaker 1: if he was going to succeed as a musician, it

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Speaker 1: would largely be because of Darren, even going on to

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Speaker 1: mention the meeting Darren had with Rock Nations A and

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Speaker 1: R man Lennaes, He'd like, man, little bro.

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Speaker 12: We're gonna startle the podcast and we're gonna do it.

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Speaker 12: We're gonna do it. Danny went to New York, you

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Speaker 12: know what I'm saying, making more score than he believed

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Speaker 12: in me.

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Speaker 2: That was like my big brother, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: He had come pull up on in we just go

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Speaker 2: somewhere and just ride and he had a real.

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Speaker 12: Connection, you know what I'm saying, Like Jane, we like them.

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Speaker 12: I don't really know, but he personally, yeah, like he

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Speaker 12: come get me like lit bro were he you know

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Speaker 12: what I'm saying, how around with and I was with

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Speaker 12: her in the day before he died, So it's crazy, man.

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Speaker 12: He was a good dude.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Ended up Michael Brown like everybody, so we didn't go

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Speaker 2: to positive places.

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Speaker 12: Like I said, I had met Michael Brown dad right

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Speaker 12: before he passed away. He went to Rock Mason or

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Speaker 12: whatever to give us a deal. He was talking to

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Speaker 12: n or uh I think he was when Hes or

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Speaker 12: something like that. I forgot his name, but uh yeah,

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Speaker 12: he was talking with him or whatever. They was talking

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Speaker 12: good or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in amidst all that he died, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, LR told us that Darren wasn't

184
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Speaker 1: the only manager that the Bottom Boys had, but that

185
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Speaker 1: in fact, Darren's childhood friend j Bird also had that role.

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Speaker 12: I was like real cool with Jay.

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Speaker 2: Bird too, So Parry Nerd, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: he might pull up on me, but he always taken

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Speaker 2: to the studio because he just wanted to see good.

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Speaker 12: He used to produce songs and stuff like man, she'd

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Speaker 12: be like this like this bro.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, he was a He was definitely a positive

193
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Speaker 2: that boys on the Bottom Boys team.

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Speaker 12: I think I talked to him one time. You know

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Speaker 12: what I'm saying. Uh, since I've been locked up. He

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Speaker 12: told him he was out. Man, you know, he want

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Speaker 12: to me he's doing good or whatever, so he have

198
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Speaker 12: to Yeah, I think I think he hadn't reached out

199
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Speaker 12: to him since I've been out. I don't even know

200
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Speaker 12: like how to reach out song for real, rid.

201
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Speaker 1: So I thought it was important to tell l R

202
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,360
Speaker 1: that his former group member and friend Kilo had been

203
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 1: the police's primary suspect in Darren's killing, not only because

204
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Speaker 1: I thought he had the right to know, but also

205
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Speaker 1: because I wanted to gauge his reaction. The name that

206
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 1: they came up with was or was from Bottom Boys,

207
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Speaker 1: Kilo really.

208
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Speaker 12: Yeah, see my whole thing. Oh yeah, I don't think

209
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Speaker 12: with DDY, you know.

210
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Speaker 2: If there speculation or whatever, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: But I was in the dark about you know what

212
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like I'm still in the dark about like

213
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Speaker 2: Darren's murder, like the whole you know what I'm saying,

214
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:51,720
Speaker 2: like the whole.

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Speaker 12: Ordeal about it. But at the same time, you know,

216
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Speaker 12: because you can pay something on us, because you know

217
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Speaker 12: what I'm saying, we come from you know what I'm saying.

218
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Speaker 12: Where we come from, or you can hit it on

219
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:01,920
Speaker 12: the clothing, because you know what I'm saying.

220
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Speaker 2: He was an activist and he was like, you know

221
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Speaker 2: what I'm saying, like this stand up for his right

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Speaker 2: or whatever.

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Speaker 12: But he personally did. He being always told me honest,

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Speaker 12: which like I don't know, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 12: like what's going on? Like what went on with that situation?

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Speaker 12: And you know what I'm saying, like don't want to know,

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Speaker 12: you know what I'm saying. At the same time, I

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Speaker 12: just know, man, I had a good relationship with Derrek.

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Speaker 1: LR doesn't sound too shocked by the suggestion that Keilo

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Speaker 1: was Darren's killer. He said himself that he had heard

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Speaker 1: speculation about the matter. Listening to him, it felt like

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Speaker 1: he was kind of spinning as he spoke, trying to

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Speaker 1: find a safe place to land and reasserting his good

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Speaker 1: relationship with Darren along the way. I decided to feel

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Speaker 1: him out a bit more and mentioned what we heard

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Speaker 1: about Darren being killed in one location and then his

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Speaker 1: jeep and body having been moved to another.

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Speaker 11: You know, it seemed like it was a setup, and

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Speaker 11: so there are people who are out there. He said

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Speaker 11: that he was actually shot on Gamble Street and then

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Speaker 11: the car was driven to Riverview and.

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Speaker 1: That's my first time really, Yes, yes.

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Speaker 12: I thought he I've never heard of it, Like I

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Speaker 12: always heard the location that.

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Speaker 7: He was in.

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Speaker 12: It's where he got shot in.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, we don't we don't know. We know that there

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Speaker 11: were multiple cars and we know that even if even

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Speaker 11: if Kilo was a stuff back, there were four people

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Speaker 11: who were on that scene.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I don't know who. You know, Like I said,

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Speaker 12: he probably been named.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 12: He could be a lot of things, because you know,

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Speaker 12: people can't keeps it up from you and you don't know,

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Speaker 12: you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know, And

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Speaker 12: maybe that's the best need you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 12: for me to not know, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 13: More after the break, Now back to the show.

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Speaker 7: One of the things that always made us scratch our

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Speaker 7: heads was the fact that the FBI reported to Darren

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Speaker 7: was opened on March third, twenty sixteen. If the FBI

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Speaker 7: was running some kind of operation on Darren, why would

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Speaker 7: it have been initiated a year and a half after

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Speaker 7: the peak of the Ferguson movement. Was this a sign

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Speaker 7: that the FBI's surveillance had nothing to do with activism

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Speaker 7: and was perhaps focused on drug or gang activity. In

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Speaker 7: the predication section at the beginning of the FBI report,

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Speaker 7: we see several uses of the acronym CHS, which stands

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Speaker 7: for confidential human source. According to the report, the reasons

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Speaker 7: justifying its being opened rely on this confidential human source

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Speaker 7: having told the FBI several things about Darren. However, all

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Speaker 7: of the specifics are completely redacted. Though guessing at who

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Speaker 7: a confidential human source might be is probably a fool's

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Speaker 7: errand we decided to try and look at who may

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Speaker 7: have recently come into or gone out of Darren's life

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Speaker 7: roughly in the timeframe of when the report was opened.

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Speaker 7: Scanning Facebook, we discovered that one of Darren's friends, a

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Speaker 7: man named Carlos Brown, who wraps under the name Los

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Speaker 7: the Main Event and who Darren had also managed, had

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Speaker 7: gone to jail around that time. Now, we didn't presume

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Speaker 7: this meant that Carlos was the confidential human source, and

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Speaker 7: we still don't, but we did see Carlos's mugshot and

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Speaker 7: we couldn't help it notice that he had dreads and

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Speaker 7: that he was five foot eight, which means he fit

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Speaker 7: the vague description of the person driving Darren's jeep given

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Speaker 7: by the witness at the Ridgeview apartments. We sought permission

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Speaker 7: from the state prison where Carlos was incarcerated to interview him. Luckily,

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Speaker 7: the facility approved and Carlos agreed to talk with us.

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Speaker 7: I mean, this is really obvious one to start with,

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Speaker 7: but I want to get your take. Biggest thing nationally

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Speaker 7: seems to launch or relaunch local hip hop scene. You're

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Speaker 7: six years old and Nelly comes out with country grammar.

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Speaker 7: Was that part of your consciousness? What do you think

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Speaker 7: of Nelly? Of course, we didn't want to come out

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Speaker 7: and say, hey, did you participate in murdering Darren Seals,

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Speaker 7: So we told main event we wanted to talk about

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Speaker 7: the Saint Louis rap scene, which wasn't untrue.

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Speaker 9: Nellie is actually one of my father's friends, and I've

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Speaker 9: been running to him a few times, even with my father,

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Speaker 9: and he's a knife individual. Even did alone by itself,

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Speaker 9: you know it. Music definitely was intriguing to me because

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Speaker 9: I do a lot of harmonizing as well, and I

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Speaker 9: feel like he kind of woke this scene up.

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Speaker 5: How would you describe your sound I'm.

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Speaker 9: Very, very real, well rounded Bertha tail. I lean into

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Speaker 9: a little if I get a country beat or.

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Speaker 10: If I get a pop beat, I lean all the

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Speaker 10: way into it.

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Speaker 7: And I did take it over man main event knew

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Speaker 7: and had made music with the Bottom Boys, so I

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Speaker 7: moved the conversation.

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Speaker 5: In that direction.

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Speaker 7: How would you describe the image of Bottom Boys and

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Speaker 7: the image you were going.

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Speaker 9: For the image of Bottom Boys, they were a little aggressive,

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Speaker 9: more to the aggressive.

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Speaker 12: Rap hip hop.

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Speaker 9: And I've been I've had multiple managements and multiple people

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Speaker 9: that then I didn't have gotten insight from to where

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Speaker 9: at the point to where I'm like, hey, I don't

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Speaker 9: care if I go pop because I'm past that. My

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Speaker 9: mind frame and my mentality is passed the Hey telp

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Speaker 9: guy all of that.

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Speaker 15: Look, you know, it's to a point where I started.

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Speaker 9: Enjoying music so much. Did I enjoy so many other

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Speaker 9: different genres now, so it's stuck in a one genre.

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Speaker 15: I couldn't be there.

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Speaker 9: I didn't see myself staying there, you know.

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Speaker 7: At one point were you managed by There's a kind

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Speaker 7: of a semi famous activist named Darren Seals. I thought

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Speaker 7: i'd seen an action where he was he became your

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Speaker 7: manager at some point.

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Speaker 9: Oh yeah, he was my manager and very close friend.

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Speaker 9: Very man.

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Speaker 15: I can't, I couldn't.

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Speaker 10: It's nothing bad I could say about him. He was

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Speaker 10: very motivational to get people like Al Sharpton on the

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Speaker 10: phone face time. You know, just man, very connected, very

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Speaker 10: very respected, and.

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Speaker 9: It's all love for him, a rest in peace.

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Speaker 5: You know, what did you hear have happened?

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Speaker 9: And he got killed and burned up in his inside

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Speaker 9: his cheek?

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Speaker 5: What do you think happened? You know?

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Speaker 15: A couple of months in me.

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Speaker 9: Faced me talking to him on the phone where I'm incarcerated.

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Speaker 9: He tells me he's gonna put some money throw on

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Speaker 9: the phone so I can call him back, and I

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Speaker 9: got news that he was gone.

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Speaker 7: You know, it turns out main Event was incarcerated when

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Speaker 7: Darren was killed. Not only that, but he sounded like

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Speaker 7: he was genuinely hurt by the loss of Darren. Main

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Speaker 7: Event went on to mention a lot of the critiques

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Speaker 7: about what seemed to be a lack of intent to

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Speaker 7: find Darren's killer.

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Speaker 15: It's crazy, you know. And then it's that these case

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Speaker 15: that didn't get pursued or any time to get pulled

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Speaker 15: over the at least twelve corps fifteen.

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Speaker 5: Cords ras them.

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Speaker 3: You know, police like you, if you already.

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Speaker 10: Get investigated by the federal federal government, you know, they

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Speaker 10: couldmmit that in some in some way, somehow, somebody's seen

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Speaker 10: something going on.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know, we might not never know, might

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Speaker 3: be deeper than it.

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Speaker 9: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: I went out there, you know, I asked main Event

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Speaker 7: why he'd been in prison at the time of Darren's death.

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Speaker 15: At that time, I was fighting a federal gun charge.

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Speaker 9: So I bought that case for about eighteen months, where

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Speaker 9: we got the officer exposed and we forced him to resign.

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Speaker 9: A lot of people said, don't fight the fair fairs,

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Speaker 9: but it was just he did me so scandalous, you

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Speaker 9: know what I'm saying, and so dirty to the point

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Speaker 9: where I'm like, I'm not gonna just take this charge.

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Speaker 9: So I bought that case for about eighteen months.

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Speaker 7: I thought this was really interesting that main Event said

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Speaker 7: he was in jail because of a dirty cop, and

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Speaker 7: I wanted to know more, so I asked him to

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Speaker 7: go into detail about what had happened.

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Speaker 12: He had like.

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Speaker 9: Twenty one apt search one affidavits where he just only

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Speaker 9: switched the name the street in the individual, and he

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Speaker 9: had the same two judges signing off on his search once,

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Speaker 9: so basically it would be word for word of everything

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Speaker 9: he's describing, like just so he can get a search

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Speaker 9: once and then. But he he had changed the name

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Speaker 9: the street in the person.

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Speaker 7: It turns out everything main event is saying is true.

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Speaker 7: The cricket officer in question is Ellis Brown. While serving

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Speaker 7: on the Saint Louis City Police he submitted several fraudulent

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Speaker 7: search warrants and the cases that resulted from them were

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Speaker 7: later thrown out. Beyond that, officer Brown was also involved

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Speaker 7: in the questionable fatal shooting of a black man in

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Speaker 7: Saint Louis, and after being forced out of the Saint

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Speaker 7: Louis City Police Department, he was hired on as an

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Speaker 7: officer in Saint Anne, one of the municipalities of Saint

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Speaker 7: Louis County, where he was then charged with violating the

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Speaker 7: civil rights of another black man, whom he assaulted.

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Speaker 8: A former Saint Anne officer has been indicted on federal

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Speaker 8: civil rights charges. Ellis Brown is accused of repeatedly kicking

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Speaker 8: a person in April of last year, when he was

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Speaker 8: an officer even though they were compliant. If convicted, he

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Speaker 8: bases ten years in prison, a two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 8: thousand dollars fine, or both. Brown is also one of

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Speaker 8: two officers who fatally shot Jimmy Powell in August of

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Speaker 8: twenty fourteen. He resigned from the Saint Louis Police Department

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Speaker 8: after that shooting and became an officer in Saint Anne.

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Speaker 15: Two and a half years.

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Speaker 9: I stayed there was a stretch after this, and I

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Speaker 9: came home and started pursuing my career again. So if

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Speaker 9: I didn't never run into that dirty cop, I would

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Speaker 9: have been out there with Rock Nasian. You know what

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Speaker 9: I'm saying.

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Speaker 7: It's impossible to know what could have become of main

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Speaker 7: Event or Darren should main Event have never been sent

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Speaker 7: to prison, but he certainly believes that had he been

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Speaker 7: a free man, his rap career would have taken off,

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Speaker 7: and with Darren managing him, they'd both have met very

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Speaker 7: different circumstances.

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Speaker 9: If I never ran into the officer, man, I already

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Speaker 9: know where I would be during Durren still be live,

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Speaker 9: We would already been we it wouldn't be no.

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Speaker 15: Time to get killed. You know, I just hate it.

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Speaker 12: I hate it.

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Speaker 9: For him, man, and hate hate this for me because

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Speaker 9: I'm still going through things I don't need to be

429
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Speaker 9: going through that I could have been, you know, surpassed.

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Speaker 5: And when did you get to know the rest of

431
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Speaker 5: those guys? Was it? Was it kind of in the

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Speaker 5: same Was it through Darren Ke LP, l R.

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Speaker 15: Yeah, is my little cousin a cousin in law.

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Speaker 9: He's passed on as well. Yeah, we met LP and

435
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Speaker 9: LP through the managers, their their family and stuff like that.

436
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Speaker 7: Speaking of the Bottom Boys, Main Events said LP came

437
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Speaker 7: in through the manager's family, which wouldn't make sense if

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Speaker 7: he was referring to Darren.

439
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 8: Now.

440
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Speaker 7: LR told us that Darren's friend Jay Bird was also

441
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Speaker 7: managing the Bottom Boys. So I asked Main Event to clarify.

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Speaker 15: We had two it was two managers, two guys managing us.

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Speaker 9: At one time it was a street guy. I don't

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Speaker 9: know if I mentioned his name and then it was him,

445
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 9: you know, and they were both managing us, and then

446
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 9: the street guy got incarcerated. But basically as soon as

447
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 9: we met, we we immediately wanted to do.

448
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 5: A music things together, you know, as you mentioned.

449
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 7: One of the managers, if I got this right, was

450
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 7: Darren and the other one with jay Bird gut him.

451
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 5: Jay Bird later a rapper.

452
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: Oh, some street guy is a street street guy. Not

453
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: too for me with his with his name fair enough enough.

454
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 7: Main Events seems really reluctant to talk about jay Bird,

455
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 7: even after I bring him up by name. Tef Po

456
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 7: did suggest an episode too, that jay Bird may have

457
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 7: been involved in Darren's death. And if the rumors about

458
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 7: a failed music deal being the motive for killing Darren

459
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 7: are true and Jay Bird was a Bottom Boys manager,

460
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 7: perhaps that is the reason for Carlos's caution. I wanted

461
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 7: to know more about the Rock Nation meeting and the

462
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 7: reality behind whether or not the Bottom Boys were on

463
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 7: the verge of a big record deal right before Darren's death.

464
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 7: I'm aware of the one where he went out and

465
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 7: he's actually in the offices of rock Nation, and was

466
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 7: he simultaneously pitching some Bottom Boys music and then also

467
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 7: representing you help me understand that.

468
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 9: I'm only familiar with the one meeting that he did

469
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 9: with them, and I believe that was in New York.

470
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 9: I may be wrong, but that's what I was told,

471
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 9: and I believe he presented all of us as one

472
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 9: group at that moment.

473
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 15: And they were just interested in me.

474
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 9: Every time they he said, every time they heard me,

475
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 9: they just said.

476
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 15: Hey, who was it?

477
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 5: Why did that not work out with you in Rock Nation?

478
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 9: Because I was incarcerated for about two months when I

479
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 9: got the news when Darren told me the news.

480
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 5: But you got but she got out later? Were you

481
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 5: not was there no interest at that time? Were you

482
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 5: not able to play for jay Z? What happened there?

483
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 5: I was never.

484
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 15: Young and didn't know how to retrout.

485
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 12: I still don't know how to reach.

486
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 9: Out and during and my mother and them, they they

487
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 9: all had to sit down and fake time and everything together.

488
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 9: So it was validations from Darren.

489
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 3: Seals and my mother as well.

490
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 9: You know that they were interested in me and wanted

491
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 9: to flop me up.

492
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 15: I don't know much after that, because I could.

493
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 9: Even get finished getting the information. He was just like, man,

494
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 9: we're definitely getting you out of there because they're definitely interesting.

495
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 9: You got you got to get out of there.

496
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 5: Was that the last conversation with him?

497
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 9: Yep, yep, that conversation with him.

498
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 7: So according to the main event, when Darren presented the

499
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 7: Bottom Boys to Rock Nation, they weren't interested in the

500
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 7: entire group, but only in him as an individual artist.

501
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 7: If this is true, could it be the reason why

502
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 7: Kilo and maybe the rest of the group, including their

503
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 7: second manager, Jaybird, were upset with Darren? After all, main

504
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 7: event wasn't even part of that group. Did the Bottom

505
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 7: Boys and Jay Bird feel that they had kind of

506
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 7: pulled a fast one in this meeting, doing a better

507
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 7: job of promoting a solo artist than of the rest

508
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 7: of the group. Is this what lay behind the argument

509
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 7: that so many people in Saint Louis believe resulted in

510
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 7: Darren being killed more after the break.

511
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: Now back to the show, Is there any way that

512
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: you could just tell us how that all turned out?

513
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: Just to quick, down and dirty.

514
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 16: When Lopez got arrested, they had no bond. Those lawyers

515
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 16: tried to negotiate a deal where they came back to

516
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 16: Lo Pesant told him that they would amend the charge

517
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 16: from murder first to murder two if he would plead

518
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 16: guilty and take fifteen years.

519
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: This is Travis Noble. He is the lawyer who represented

520
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: Bottom Boys member Lopez Watson Simms aka LP when LP

521
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: was charged in the death of a man named Carlos

522
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: Morris in October of twenty seventeen, three intruders wearing masks

523
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: burst into Morris's home and shot and killed him. They

524
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: also shot and grievously wounded his fourteen year old son.

525
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: One of the intruders left a palm print on a

526
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: glass door, and police believe that palm print belonged to LP.

527
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 16: The lawyer kind of explain to him, look, you could

528
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 16: do twelve years on it. You've already got five in.

529
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 16: You'll do seven years, you get out, and Lopez says,

530
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 16: I didn't do it. And the lawyer said, well, they've

531
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 16: got your palm print on the door to murdersy and

532
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 16: he said, I don't care what they have.

533
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 3: I didn't do it.

534
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 16: We set it for trial almost immediately. Well, Tuesday morning,

535
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 16: the prosecutor didn't show up. I don't think that they

536
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 16: were ready, and I think they thought he was going

537
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 16: to be be guilty and we didn't. So we agreed

538
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 16: to pick another date and then went in and we

539
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 16: tried it and the jury found him not guilty.

540
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: LP was in jail for five years as he awaited trial, and,

541
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: like mister Noble said, was found not guilty. So in

542
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: early twenty twenty three, LP was a free man and

543
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: he agreed to talk with us if his lawyer was present.

544
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: LP was close friends with Kilo even before the Bottom

545
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: Boys were a group, so we figured he had to

546
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: know more about Darren's death than we did. We wanted

547
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: him to establish that closeness at the outset, so we

548
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: asked him how he came to be in a rap

549
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: group alongside Kilo and LR.

550
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: They were both friends of mine and they did music

551
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: as well, and I brought him in.

552
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 4: I played their music and both of my managers were like, yeah, theyking,

553
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: I want to hear you all together because at that

554
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 4: point we hadn't made any music together, you know what

555
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 4: I'm saying, And and we decided to put it all

556
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: together and it was came out right.

557
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 7: So out of like LR, Kilo, Darren, j Bird, Who

558
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 7: were you closest with?

559
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: I was closer to Jaybird, I met Darren.

560
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 5: When did you first meet Jayber?

561
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: I was a kid?

562
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 5: What was your relationship with Ricky?

563
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 7: Like?

564
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 4: Ricky is my friend? Like I said, I brought him

565
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 4: into the group. That was my friend, my childhood friend.

566
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 4: He was rapping way before me, you know, both of him,

567
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: and he was rapping way before me. I just started

568
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 4: rapping and mentioned dumb and it became a group by accident.

569
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: Honestly.

570
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 5: Uh.

571
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 7: Darren's first like Facebook announcement of the group seems to

572
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 7: be like New Year's Day twenty sixteen.

573
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: I believe that's when we shot the video Neighborhood and

574
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 4: that was around that was like right before New Year's

575
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 4: Was there a song.

576
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 7: Or a music video or a moment from the time

577
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 7: you three were rapping together that you're most proud of

578
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 7: or that you remember.

579
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't go our video can go? I didn't

580
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: lost a couple of my knigs on me.

581
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: We made it too fun, lost niggas I grew with

582
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 4: about since we was little sill and it fucked me

583
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 4: up that you go on my nigga for you, we

584
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 4: go to your killer as and we ain't gonna stop

585
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 4: off but we murdd I ain't made it just a

586
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 4: little word.

587
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: But the living life no purpose? That give me some money?

588
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was That was like one of the last

589
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 4: times everyone was all together, all the artists. Our manager

590
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 4: Darren seals that was like when the last time we

591
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 4: was all together having a good old time, as you

592
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: can see in the video.

593
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: And what was the management style, like, did they have

594
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: different styles?

595
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: Of management for sure.

596
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 4: You had Darren who had way more experience than jay Bird,

597
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. So it was two different visions,

598
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 4: you know, and that was a big reason why while

599
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 4: our music wasn't getting pushed as it should, it was

600
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: too it was too many to two different visions.

601
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 7: You know.

602
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 4: Darren had had a vision of us getting real money,

603
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: you know, he wanted the best position for us, while

604
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 4: jay Bird just wanted immediate success.

605
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

606
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: J anxious about like moving it along real quick.

607
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: For sure, which at that moment wasn't It wasn't.

608
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 4: It wasn't a problem either or from our perspective, the

609
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: artist perspective, because we wasn't putting no money in so

610
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 4: we didn't really have no say, so we just made

611
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 4: good music.

612
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: This difference of opinion, Darren wanting to move carefully, angling

613
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: for the best contract while Jaybird wanted the fastest money.

614
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: Did it represent an actual animosity between the two men

615
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: or was it a simple disagreement that didn't amount to

616
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: anything serious? And how did everything change? Because that was

617
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: like in a short period of time when Darren winterrognation

618
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: and by the time he was killed, how did that

619
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: change your life that moment.

620
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 4: Everything went downhill. From that point, everything, music, career, everything.

621
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: It was no more funding, you know what I'm saying.

622
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 4: So my first manager got arrested, my second manager got killed.

623
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: So's the music was. It's really been on the stage

624
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: still since then.

625
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: When LP says his first manager was arrested, he's referring

626
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: to jay Bird again. In episode two, Tef Poe told

627
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: us he heard that someone named jay Bird had been

628
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: in jail and had asked Darren to take care of

629
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: some things for him, and it was Darren's failure to

630
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: follow through on whatever that was that caused jay Bird

631
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: to want Darren murdered. This arrest of jay Bird in

632
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: the summer of twenty sixteen fits the timeline of that story.

633
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Like we had done with LR and main event. We

634
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: wanted to tell LP that, according to the police, Kilo

635
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: was Darren's likely killer. LP was close to Keilo. It

636
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: seemed really inconceivable to us that Keelo could have killed

637
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: Darren and LP wouldn't have known about it and his reaction. Well,

638
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: listen for yourself. Well, one of the things I just

639
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about and just get to

640
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: the point we think we know what happened to Darren

641
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: seals generally, not totally specifically, but generally, And the cops

642
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: believed that the shooter of Darren was Keilo. Do you

643
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: think that's even possible that Keilo was the killer of Darren?

644
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: No, that's not essential.

645
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: Tell us why because.

646
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: Me personally, Kilo was my brother and I believe I

647
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: would know it that was true. That's bullshit.

648
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: I remember on the news clip about Darren, the eyewitness

649
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: said that it was a white man.

650
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: Did you all get that?

651
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 7: So there was the light skinned man who supposedly had

652
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 7: a ponytail, and the witness believed he may have been

653
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 7: involved in starting the jeep on five, There was someone

654
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 7: driving a Chrysler three hundred with a HEMI and there

655
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 7: was someone driving a Chevy four door. And then there

656
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 7: was the person who drove Darren's vehicle to that spot

657
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 7: who got out of the vehicle. He was a five

658
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 7: to six black man with dreads. He was wearing socks

659
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 7: on his hands.

660
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 3: What now, this is my first time here and this

661
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 3: is crazy Kim doing.

662
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 7: Well, that's what we know, and that is what you know.

663
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 5: From the witnesses.

664
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: All.

665
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 7: That's the description that there were at least four parties.

666
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 7: Did Keilo associate with anyone that jumps out that would

667
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 7: match at the time, that Chevy four door or that

668
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 7: Chrysler three hundred.

669
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: I have no clue about any a day. Sorry, that

670
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 4: was twenty sixteen, and I know I'm sure I wasn't there.

671
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 4: I highly doubt kill had anything to do with there.

672
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 4: From everything I heard, I note that they said it

673
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 4: was some white people that killed him, which sounds crazy.

674
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: And he was involved in all the political miss and

675
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: I know there was no advice ever been made or

676
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 4: any of that they stopped investigating when they are white people.

677
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 7: If you ask me, we're approaching you because we figured

678
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 7: you would be in a position to have the best

679
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 7: information on a lot of this. And now I just

680
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 7: want to say that Kilo's gone, and Darren's family and

681
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 7: a lot of people who loved him would love to

682
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 7: learn the truth. So there's no Kilo is not going

683
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 7: to end up prosecuted.

684
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 5: He's gone.

685
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 7: So if you happened to be aware of information that

686
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 7: could bring closure to the family around Kilo, we thought

687
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 7: it was worth giving you the opportunity.

688
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 3: To do stuff.

689
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 4: I don't know anything that happened with Darren. If he

690
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 4: was alive, I still would tell you the same thing.

691
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 4: I never heard that he did that. I didn't get

692
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: any fishy behavior from him to make me think that

693
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: he did that. And I miss Daring. I hate this

694
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 4: tragic happens to him. You know, he kept me focused,

695
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: kept me focused, kept me away from bullshit. He was

696
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 4: doing the opposite of everybody else.

697
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: Right too.

698
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I miss him. I love

699
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 4: you as my brother. You know what I'm saying. We've

700
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: been through a lot together. Him smiling made me smile.

701
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 4: I hate that tragic happening.

702
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 7: Now. Do you know for a fact that Kelo didn't

703
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 7: meet him that night? In other words, were you with

704
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 7: Kelo that night of the night before Darren was style?

705
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 5: No, it was Labor Day.

706
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 7: I know there were a lot of barbecues, and I

707
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 7: know that there was mention of some bottom boys being

708
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 7: out of barbecue that day. Do you recall Labor Day

709
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 7: twenty sixteen.

710
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 4: I don't remember none of that. I know when I

711
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 4: found out Darren was dead. I was in Castle Pointe

712
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 4: on the Lord. I remember that when I found out

713
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 4: he was dead.

714
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 3: So no, I was not. I don't know what the fuck.

715
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: But when what's going on Kelo or I doubt he

716
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: had anything to do with that.

717
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: Here's what's interesting. Kelo was shot on the same night

718
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: that Darren's body was found.

719
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: So if you're saying is the night he got shot

720
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 4: in Castle Pointe, what I'm saying is that said hello,

721
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 4: you said Kelo got shot that same night Darren got killed.

722
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 4: Is what you're saying.

723
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: Kelo got shot the same day Darren's body was found.

724
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 1: It's in a police report, and he ended up going

725
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: to the hospital, so you don't.

726
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: Have any hospital records of him. I'm not understanding what

727
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 3: you're saying.

728
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is so overnight about twelve forty five

729
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: the next day after Labor Day into Tuesday. Later that day,

730
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: after everybody found out about Darren being killed. That same night,

731
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: about eleven o'clock is when Kilo was shot at. He

732
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: was going to buy well, he said in the police report,

733
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: he was going to buy some percocet and that car

734
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: that he thought was the dealer started shooting at him.

735
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: Okay, so it was your question.

736
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 7: Understand well, you were working with him a lot at

737
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 7: the time, your manager had just died, and then you're

738
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 7: a fellow I know, getting shot.

739
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 4: I know what you're talking about. Got shot when we

740
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 4: was at Darren's repass, well not repassed. We was out

741
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 4: doing to have a balloon release and Cassid point and

742
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: he got shot where everybody was leaving the sun. I

743
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 4: think he was getting purposes and random course shot at

744
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 4: We don't know who he was getting purposes from, but

745
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 4: he did.

746
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: Get shot in it.

747
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: Do you think anybody thought on the streets at least

748
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: that it was Kelo that shot him and then that

749
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: was them getting Kelo back.

750
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: No, that was never said, nothing like that. Now shot

751
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: him for Darren or nothing? What you're trying to say?

752
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 7: No, what are your memories of the Lee brothers, Mark

753
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 7: Kwan and my Trell?

754
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 3: That was my cousin.

755
00:39:54,040 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: Okay, So that same night that Kilo got shot, within

756
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: moments seconds, Mark Kwan got shot too, and we didn't

757
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: know if they were together or not. They had two

758
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: different police reports, but Mark Kwan he was shot and

759
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: had to go to the hospital too.

760
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 7: So well, we're trying to figure this out too. But

761
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 7: I have to assume your manager, I'm.

762
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: Not understanding what you're saying. What are you saying talking

763
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: to Rutles, talk to you.

764
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: No, we're trying to figure this out. I mean, this

765
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: is a puzzle and we're trying to get what your

766
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: perspective is. Why is somebody shooting at Kilo the night

767
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: you know, after Darren is found.

768
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: Right listen and got shot at one hundred times? Yeah,

769
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 4: I can't tell you why he didn't been shot at

770
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: one hundred times? Can't It's impossible. It's impossible. That's just

771
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 4: a guy that you just have to talk to yourself.

772
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 4: Did he keep I don't believe that. Let me ask

773
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 4: you you even if I did want to tell you something.

774
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is that's a dangerous game to play.

775
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 4: If I even wanted to play that, Like, that's dangerous.

776
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: Saying asked me. You just asked me who killed? I

777
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,959
Speaker 3: have no clue, but and you asked me about who killed?

778
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 5: Like this is this?

779
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 3: This this is not nothing to be played with. And

780
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: you're scaring me. I could get hurt by talking to you. All.

781
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 3: This is a dangerous game.

782
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: A lot of killing going on.

783
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 14: Because the sniper.

784
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 5: Good people get bound.

785
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: In my neighborhood.

786
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 7: This After the Uprising is a production of Double Asterisk

787
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 7: and iHeart podcasts in association with True Stories Season two

788
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 7: was written, reported, and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy,

789
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 7: Malory Kenoy, and Reino Vashewski. Executive producers are Nikki Atoor

790
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 7: and Lindsay Hoffman for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Reinovishewski

791
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 7: for Double Asterisk, David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories.

792
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 7: Directed by John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme song and score

793
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 7: by Zachary Walter. Sound engineering and mixed by John Autry.

794
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 7: Fact checking by Muffin Humes, Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair use,

795
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 7: legal by Peter Yazy and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly

796
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 7: Decan for iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sclarr for Double Asterisk.

797
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 7: Missouri Sunshine Legal by David Roland. Show logo by iHeart

798
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 7: Podcasts using a photo by at Tillo Dagostino. Our interns

799
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 7: were Hannah Madura and Rosemary Fiery. Website by Stephanie Clark.

800
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 7: Recorded at David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We

801
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 7: want to acknowledge additional investigation that became part of this

802
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 7: podcast was conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis

803
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 7: County Police and the FBI who did not participate in

804
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 7: this podcast, and by a mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and

805
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 7: Darnell Singleton. If you like our work, check out our

806
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 7: other podcasts. You can find us at double asteriskmedia dot

807
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 7: com and on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us on Patreon.

808
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 7: If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and

809
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 7: review on your favorite podcast app. Thank you to Jamie Dennis,

810
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 7: Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan macalouso, At McDonough, Melissa.

811
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 13: McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony.

812
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 7: And Valovyshewsky, and the family and loved ones of Darren Seals,

813
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 7: Bottom Boys and Doa. Tracks used via fair use, So

814
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 7: was the news reporting. Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double

815
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 7: Asteriskink