1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Quodydas, but Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: I've never been much of a handyman. It's just it's 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: not my DNA. It's just something that I've never felt 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: really confident at it. You know, I've got a lot 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: of friends that are that can you know, they seem 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: to be able to create something out of absolutely nothing, 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: and that's something is like really on the high end 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: as far as quality goes. Now. I have worked on 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 2: renovations and homes that I've lived in, but you know, 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: I'm being primarily told what to do. I don't have 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: an eye for design or anything like that. My skill 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: set rest elsewhere. But I can't even begin to imagine 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: that you're some guy that's just bought maybe an old 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: Victorian style home front porch, a porch that you could 15 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: sit on in the evening and feel cool breeze, maybe 16 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: having an adult beverage, or watch the sun come up 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: and have of course blessed coffee. But can you imagine 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: being in this home and then saying, I'm going to 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: expand this room and the first thing I need to 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: do is take this wall out, and suddenly you hit 21 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: it with a hammer, or maybe you hit it with 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: a sledgehammer, and you begin peeling back those layers. You 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: can see the bear studs there, and you look down 24 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: and you notice something kind of white. Maybe the light 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: kind of bounces off of it, and then all of 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: a sudden, you're face to face with a human skull. 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body backs, David. 28 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: You a big rent o. Oh god, that's something. 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I've had to do it. 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: And I'm I'm one of those guys that would rather 31 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 3: use my wallet than a hammer, but you know that's 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: yeah anyway, No, but I've done my share, and I 33 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: am that guy that will but only add a necessity 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: right now, door, Yeah, I got Hey, I got a 35 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: lot of work that needs to be done. Okay, But 36 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: when I when I was reading this story, my first 37 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 3: thought was, you know, I got a weird wall in 38 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: my house. 39 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: You know, why not take that down? But this just partified. 40 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 3: This one poggles my mind, Joe, because if you, okay, 41 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 3: if you were doing this in your house and you 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: found a human bone, and you know it's not a 43 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: joke being played on you, You're gonna be just as 44 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: freaked out as all the rest of us. I would think, 45 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: maybe even more so because you know, these things don't 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: crawl themselves there on Halloween night. It doesn't happen like that. 47 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: Somebody had to have put this skull in the wall 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: and hidden it there. 49 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: Why, you know, I think the big, the big question 50 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 2: is why would you, Why would you hide a skull? 51 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 2: Because do you know I have I actually have been 52 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: called to see s. Dave over the course of my career. 53 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: I've had this happen in New Orleans and Atlanta, where, 54 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: independent of one another, two separate cases where I've had 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: people that have gone to another person's house and have 56 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: borne witness in said house to human remains one person. 57 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you and I travel in much different circles. 58 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: Man, Well they don't call the medical examiner of the 59 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: corner when you're having a good day, all right, But yeah, 60 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: I mean I remember one one fellow in particular, uh 61 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: had he had he went all he went all in 62 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: on Edgar Allan Poe. He had come across a human 63 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: skull and he and it was it was it wasn't 64 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: like some kind of recreation, something that had been created 65 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: in plastic fact, that this was a legit human skull 66 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 2: and he had it up on a shelf, and there 67 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: was candle wax all over it, and he had literally, 68 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: you know, like I said, Edgar Allan Poe, you know, 69 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: had melted a candle on top of the skull and 70 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: had illuminated the space that he was in with the skull. 71 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: And this is nothing new under the sun or under 72 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: the candle light, because people have done this for years 73 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: and years and years. I know I'm going to get 74 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: slapped down for this, but I'll go ahead and say it. 75 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: There there is actually I think it might be in Portugal. 76 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: See the Portugal Spain, forgive me. There is a chapel 77 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 2: in the underground catacombs. The chapel itself, the whole chapel 78 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: is made out of bone, made out of human bone. 79 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: And this thing is massive. There's even a high altar 80 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: in there with bones. You've got a regular it looks 81 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: like a pulpit, chairs, all kinds of stuff and the stuff. 82 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: This this thing has been created over it's called I 83 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: think it's called an austuary. I think that's what it's 84 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: referred to as. It's like a collection site for human bones. 85 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: And for years and years, you know, it's how people 86 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: built these things out. Human remains have been used in 87 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: the past for decorative purposes. You'll come across those, as 88 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 2: you know as a death investigator. Many times or people 89 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: will question and it turns out many times, you know, 90 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: people will just show up at an Emmy's office with 91 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: a bone and they'll say, what is this? And of 92 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: course I can look at certain things and say it's 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: not human. It's too the bone is too robust. And 94 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: it turns out that it's generally, you know, like a 95 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 2: hog bone or something like that. It's it's but the 96 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: utility of bone for many people. And you know, it's 97 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: not all serial killers that have bones. 98 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: No, I would not be inviting people to a church 99 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 3: that was made out of bones. These are the people 100 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: you know here come up to this alter. This is 101 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: alter made out of people who would not get baptized. Okay, 102 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: that's a big deal here. 103 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, and it's it's I think that 104 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,559 Speaker 2: some of it is done. I think that sometimes during 105 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: our past people have done it as a necessity. 106 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: Okay, however, go get me a logne Hey, dad, I 107 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: couldn't find it, but I found Timmy. 108 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: Let's grab this. Yeah. 109 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, you look at it, you think, wow, you know 110 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 2: what drives you to this point where you're going to 111 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: do this. 112 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: Wow. 113 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: I think you know, in our funerary practices are certainly 114 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: different than they used to be. And a lot of 115 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: this stuff is regionalized too. You have to you have 116 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 2: to look at that. But anytime you find a human remain, 117 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: it bears, I would think looking into it and yeah, 118 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: exactly so can you imagine terry And you know, this 119 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: wall would not have been normal. And again, forgive my 120 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: uh uh, forgive my misuse of the words or whatever, 121 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: but I think this is before the days where you 122 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: have insulated walls. You know, it's got you know, fiber 123 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: insulation in there, and then you've got dry wall that's 124 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: on there. This would have been I think they call 125 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: it strip, strip, lath or strip. I think that's what 126 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: it is. And it's these strips of of of wood 127 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: that are essentially nailed to the studs and then it's 128 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: plastered over and when that happens, it begins to degrade. 129 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: Over a period of time. You'll see these old walls 130 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: that have waves in them. And I've had to help 131 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: renovate some of these things, and it's fascinating what you 132 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: find in the cubby holes, you know, between the studs, 133 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: you'll find old newspaper. In particular, some people stuffed newspaper 134 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: down in between the walls. That's not a fire hazard, 135 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: and they would put old newspapers beneath the flooring to 136 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: add a layer of a barrier. I remember this for 137 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: the days of plastics and all these things, and then 138 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: they would nail the floorboards down on top of it. 139 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: I know one house that I was helping to renovate, 140 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: and the interior wall of the walls, I guess that 141 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: is how you would say it was. I remember tearing 142 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: off a big hole in the wall in this plastered 143 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: wall and looking through with a flashlight, and the first 144 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: thing that caught my eye was actually a grocery sale 145 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: advertisement from nineteen twenty seven. Whoa, I know. And that 146 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: was just in the twenties, but many I got to 147 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 2: tell you, the case that we're talking about today goes 148 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: a bit further back then than the nineteen twenties. 149 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you set it up pretty good. 150 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: At the very beginning. This happens in nineteen seventy eight. 151 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: We're about forty three miles west of Chicago in Illinois. 152 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 3: James Skinner is the man's name. He's doing some renovations 153 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: on the home, and he finds a skull. He looks closer, 154 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 3: finds other items that don't belong in the wall or 155 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: behind baseboards or anything else for that matter, and he calls 156 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: police like you would do. The investigators come to the house, 157 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: and the reason is, I'm wondering, Joe. You find a 158 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 3: skull and a few other things in the wall that 159 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: aren't supposed to be there, and your first thing is 160 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 3: call the police so they know I didn't kill somebody, 161 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: boil them down and stashed them in here. And my 162 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 3: thought is, do you can you tell if because I'm 163 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: thinking the skull and bones or whatever the else they 164 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: found in between the wall well might have been pretty 165 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: well preserved. Would you be able to tell just by 166 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: a cursory glance the age of a skull or bones 167 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: that you find that have been in a protected environment. 168 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah you could, Yeah you can. And look, I mean, 169 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: the most obvious thing here, Dave is is if you 170 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: have a human skeletal remain that you're examining, it goes 171 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: without saying if the body is left on the ground outside, 172 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: you know, to decay. There are certain things that you're 173 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 2: going to pick up on when you do your examination. 174 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: That nature will have, you know, had greater access to 175 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: the remain, and of course it'll be weathered to a 176 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: great degree. It might be you know, portions of it 177 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: will be completely non existent, perhaps because you know you've 178 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: had animals coming and going all these years. It's certainly 179 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: subjected to rain, freezing, freezing and heating, and you know, 180 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: bones are not beyond you know, like freezing and contracting 181 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and you'll get a little fracture 182 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: lines in them as a result of that. You'll actually 183 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: see plants growing growing through bone. Interesting. 184 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: I helped do a. 185 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: Recovery on a body one time of a Civil War 186 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: soldier that had just been accidentally found and actually the 187 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: fellow that had buried the remain reburied the remains long story, 188 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: but had reburied the remain forty years earlier when he 189 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: discovered it had just dropped the skull in place. Dave, 190 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: there was a there were oak tree saplings growing up 191 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: through the skull, and so you know, you never know, 192 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 2: but you know, when you have a skull inside of 193 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: a wall, it will be protected. Well, what things could 194 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: get to it, Well, obviously it's still going to be heat, 195 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: hot and cold. This is, by the way, in Batavia, Illinois. 196 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: You had mentioned, outside of Chicago, which arguably is one 197 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: of the coldest places I've ever been in my life. 198 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: Colder of course as you approach the lake in my opinion, 199 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: and so it's you know, it's kind of hostile, but 200 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: it's not hostile to the degree where it's going to 201 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: be out there, open and weathered. The bone itself is 202 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: going to take on kind of a there's a yellowish 203 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: patina that takes place with the bone. Over a period 204 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: of time, it becomes it almost looks like parchment paper 205 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: to a certain degree, and it yellows. You know, the 206 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: longer it goes, the more yellow it will get. And 207 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: actually there's a smoothing of the bone that takes place 208 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: to it'll have almost like a sometimes if it's in 209 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: a protected area, almost a glass like machine to it. So, yeah, 210 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: it does change. And you know, the only animals that 211 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 2: are really going to have access to the skull are 212 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: going to be rats, rodents that'll get in there and 213 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: they will gnaw on bone. And there's plenty of examples 214 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: that people that I know that might be interested in 215 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: this sort of thing. There there's a difference between if 216 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: you see a human remain that has been cannibalized, which 217 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: means consumed by another human as opposed to scavenged, which 218 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 2: means that you have someone in someone as if they're 219 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 2: a person. You have an animal that comes along, and 220 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: it's the marks that say a rat leaves on a 221 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: bone are going to be completely different than what human 222 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: teeth marks will be. When you've got this gnawing going 223 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 2: on with rats in particular, they've got the prominent central 224 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: incisors and they'll drag them across the surface, you'll see 225 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: these very prominent striated areas where rats have been chewing. 226 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: And they do the same thing on long bones too, 227 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: so you'll see it on the skulls. You'll see it 228 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: on long bones, primarily with skulls. So one of the 229 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: things that will disappear really quick are any of the 230 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: leading edges, like if you've got the orbits, the super 231 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: orbital ridge that's up top, if it's if it's a 232 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: protruding feature, they can get their little claws on it 233 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: and begin to chew through that. And also the mastoid bone, 234 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: which if everybody listen to my voice, will take your 235 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: right index finger and put it directly behind your ear. 236 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: There's kind of a knot right there. Well, that's the mastoid, 237 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: and they'll get to that and they'll begin to chew 238 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: on that. So there, you know, when you get into 239 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: this area. That's why anthropology is so fat. I'm a 240 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: frustrated anthropologist at heart, because it's something I never got 241 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: to practice. I was just around them, had friends or 242 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: anthropologists things that they get to study to look for 243 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: minute details. It's quite fascinating, and certainly this case in 244 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: and of itself is very fascinating. What do you do 245 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: at this point? You're sitting here, you've got you're just 246 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: minding your own business. You're not you expect to open 247 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: up the wall and it's just going to kind of 248 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: be dead space. And well, I guess you take that 249 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: day and run with it, right, Yeah, boy walked right 250 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: into that way. But yeah, you look down and you've 251 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: got a skull here. And the first thing that everybody 252 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: always does is that they called nine to eleven and 253 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: or back then. I guess back then day for our 254 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: younger friends out there, you dial zero. This was nineteen 255 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: seventy eight. You call you remember that, you call the 256 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: operator and the operator I mean the police. They give 257 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: me the police. Yeah, famously an error. I bet people 258 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: nowadays that are not familiar with that, they probably think, wait, 259 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: called nine one one, you are calling. 260 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: The place Snow. In the movies, you used to have 261 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: to call the operator. Think about it's like give me 262 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: the police. 263 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: There used to be songs made up of calling numbers 264 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 3: like Beechwood four, five, seven. 265 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: Eight nine. 266 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: Yea. 267 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: Anyway, they did the first thing, and that's when we 268 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: were looking at this story picking up the phone and 269 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: calling the policing. I found a skull. That's to protect 270 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: yourself from being accused of killing somebody. First and foremost 271 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: second is I found a skull. I don't know what 272 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: did I mean? Unless you are Clyde Snow, unless you 273 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 3: are an American forensic anthropologist that has seen these things before, 274 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: you don't know what it is. And I bring up 275 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 3: Clyde Snow's name because he is that guy. Back in 276 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: the day and in the nineteen seventies, Clyde Snow had 277 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: done everybody from JFK to John Wayne Gacy. He has 278 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: been in so many books and things I've read over 279 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 3: a period of time that is still my mind. How 280 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 3: he really did become the source and we didn't have 281 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 3: the internet, was not There was a connection of computers 282 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 3: and phone lines in nineteen seventy eight, but it wasn't 283 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 3: like this, you know, it wasn't like we. 284 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: Have no No, it's not and whoever yeah, yeah, doctor 285 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: snow did get involved? 286 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: How does that happen? 287 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 3: The jo I am kind of curious because you call 288 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: the police, who did the police call? 289 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: Who are you going to call. 290 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: The medical exam? Okay, the medical and well the coroner. 291 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: Illinois is a corner state, Okay, okay, and we can 292 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 2: have a whole discussion about that another time. But it 293 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: is in fact a corner state. And so in this 294 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: particular county which Dave I was thinking about this, you know, 295 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: what was going on up there? Approximating this location in 296 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight? 297 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Was he gayzy? 298 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 2: It was gaysy? 299 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: I'll be does it was? 300 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: But if I remond memory, yeah, if memory serves me correctly, 301 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: this would have been you know, kind of approximating that time. 302 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 2: And I don't think that they I don't know. I'm 303 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: speaking out school, but what I'm saying is back during 304 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 2: that time, if you remember the late seventies, people were 305 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: in a in a free feeding frenzy over serial killers. 306 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: It occupied everything, you know, like you know, they were 307 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 2: in the news everywhere. And I would think that this 308 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: gentleman that was renovating the house in nineteen seventy eight, 309 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 2: he would he would have had some kind of awareness 310 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: and that you know, you're talking about sending a chill 311 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: up and down your spine. When you open a wall 312 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: and you see a skull there, you're thinking, oh, my heavens, 313 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: what in the world has happened? What occurred here? So yeah, 314 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: the police, after you call zero. And as for the police, 315 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: the police will show up and they'll probably send back. 316 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: Then they probably sent a detective out there, but they 317 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: would have called the medical examiner, and the medical examiner 318 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: or the corner rather would have maybe dispatched their people 319 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: there and sent sent the item. They would have collected 320 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 2: the item in any other because there were other little 321 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 2: bone chips that were found in there. I tell you something. 322 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 2: There was another disturbing item that I saw that they 323 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 2: found in I don't know why this is disturbing. I 324 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: have no idea, but for me, there was something creepy 325 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: about it because they found a bonnet in there. Oh 326 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: and bonnets go back, you know, that's something from the 327 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: Victorian era. You know, ladies would wear these bonnets that 328 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 2: were kind of starched and poking out. There's always been 329 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 2: something kind of creepy about them to me. And then 330 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 2: you find so you find the skull, and then you 331 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: find a bonnet that's in there with it, and you're thinking, 332 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: I can only imagine they I had this wild thought. 333 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 2: I was thinking, oh my god, somebody killed someone and 334 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 2: it was a lady and they cut her head off 335 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: and left the bonnet on it. Wow, maybe over Tom. 336 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: It just kind of fell to the side, which is 337 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: kind of you know, wow, you know, in and of it. 338 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: And how's the bonnet remained intact because that's going to 339 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: be a textile. How is it not falling apart? I 340 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: think that goes to how well things can be preserved 341 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: when there's stuff down into an area like this, as 342 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: opposed to be if the bonnet had been even buried, 343 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: you know, in just dirt. 344 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 3: Okay, just regularly right now, let me back up a 345 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 3: minute because you mentioned John Wayne gase. 346 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: I look, John wayn. 347 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: Geza was apprehended in December of nineteen seventy eight. This 348 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 3: skull was found in nineteen seventy eight. So if you 349 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: can imagine, you know this, if you find you're finding 350 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: human bones in your wall and you call the police, 351 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: They're going to look at it and kind of go, well, obviously, 352 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: you know this is not a recent murder. You didn't 353 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 3: hide these, you wouldn't have called us. 354 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: No. 355 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 3: But by the time they get around to what I mean, 356 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: I don't even know where they begin in nineteen. But 357 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, you've got John Wayne Gacy 358 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: making the headlines because under his crawl space, under his house, 359 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: you know, you got thirty plus bodies in various stages 360 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 3: of breaking down, and. 361 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: Literally they are literally in well to do an entire 362 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 2: episode on this kind of the stratification that went on there, 363 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: but yeah, you literally are having bodies that are decomposing 364 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: on top of other remains that they've been there already 365 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: for a longer time. And this guy, he he had 366 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: to have had an awareness of this happening, you know, 367 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: oh yeah, to me close proximity to where he was. Yeah, 368 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: And so that adds another late And can you imagine 369 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: when this hit the news up there at that point 370 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: in time in seventy eight, and people are thinking, oh 371 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: my god, not not enough one. You know, it's just 372 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 2: sometimes it's just dumb luck, you know that comes into 373 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: play where you'll have this kind of intersection of of 374 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: these moments. But I got way off track here, you know. 375 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: Let me bring it back to Clyde Snow for a minute. 376 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: Because they had to identify this, They had to figure 377 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: out what do we have? And I mean, your first 378 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 3: thing is what is it? How old is it? Those 379 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 3: are going to be the two questions we're after because 380 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 3: is this a recent skull, a recent missing person? 381 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: What do we have? 382 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: Even in nineteen we tend to look back on things 383 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 3: now and base the timing on what we can do 384 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 3: now with DNA and everything else that we can do 385 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: with computers and things like that. But you know, in 386 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, we didn't think we were in the 387 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 3: Stone Age. Is weird talking about how advanced we were 388 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: at the time and how they could, you know, use 389 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 3: blood and different things to figure out who this person was. 390 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: So not realizing how ancient it tends to look now. 391 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 3: At the time, they were on the cutting edge. They 392 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: had ways to figure this out they didn't have before. 393 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're certainly right about that. But 394 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: you know when back then, though you did and have, 395 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 2: the best you could do is try And I'm talking 396 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: about nowadays talking about the idea of trying to understand 397 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 2: who the person. 398 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: Is, right see. 399 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: I think now you could just enter the drop of 400 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 3: their blood and it would come back with a DNA 401 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: profile and their whole family tree. I know we're not 402 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 3: there yet, but that's what I feel like we are 403 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: half the time. 404 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. 405 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not necessarily that simple. That's why, you know, 406 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: when we think about our dear friends at authors and 407 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: what they're doing, uh, and the you know, I don't know, 408 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: it's it's as close to for me, this is my 409 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: own personal assessment. Uh, it's it's it's God's work. I 410 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: mean when I look at it and I think about 411 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 2: what you're trying to do here and trying to you know, 412 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: let people know who an individual might might be, you know. 413 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 2: And I'm not going to go down my soapbox about 414 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: hating the word closure, but it's it's just a matter 415 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: of just giving you know, information. But then you know, 416 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: the skull was actually removed by the corner. The corner 417 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: actually took it to the University of Northern Illinois and 418 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: it's over in I think it's the cab Illinois. It's 419 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: further to the west than even Batavia is, but it's 420 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: almost in a direct line. Well, they, I would imagine 421 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: in seventy eight they had an anthropology department. And when 422 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: you go to an anthropology department at a university, there's 423 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: no guarantee you're gonna have forensic anthropologists there. As a 424 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 2: matter of fact, they're rare's hens teeth. You don't come 425 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 2: across them just anywhere. They're generally even larger universities that 426 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: are doing a lot of research. But they whoever it 427 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: was that was there, had the good sense to know 428 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 2: that they needed to find they need to bring into 429 00:24:54,200 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: pro and so that's who doctor Claude Snow was think 430 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 2: at that time he was I think at that time 431 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 2: he was at the University of Oklahoma. I think that 432 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: was during his tenure, and it was it would be 433 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: a major undertaking day just to try to peg him down, 434 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: to get your hands on him, because he was in 435 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 2: such demand. You mentioned that he had you know, he 436 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 2: had consulted on the gay sy trial, but you know, 437 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: are the Gacy cases. But here's the thing, Clyde Snow 438 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: was you know, Central America was in total turmoil back 439 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: then and there were a lot of political killings that 440 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: sort of thing, and doctor Snow was being brought to 441 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 2: Central America to exhume these mass graves just to try 442 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 2: to get not necessarily an ID, but you would look 443 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: at those bodies buried in those locations, and you know, 444 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 2: he would try to give back a report, generally to 445 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 2: somebody like the UN for instance, to say, this is 446 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 2: the group of people demographically that they're killing. These are 447 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 2: all military age males force and you can investigatively you 448 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: can kind of get an idea of particularly as people 449 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: that do war crimes and that sort of thing, are 450 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: they're killing all of the women of child bearing age? 451 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: You know? Are they going through and they're killing all 452 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 2: of the children. 453 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: So that's what he was doing there. 454 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: He was doing he was moving all over the world 455 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: doing this sort of stuff, and there was a real 456 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 2: need for his skill set because it when you're looking 457 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 2: at a bone, you're at such a disadvantage when compared 458 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: to say, your friends that are working in forensic forensic 459 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: pathology that are examining the fresh dead. The biggest obstacle 460 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: you have to overcome is that there's no soft tissue 461 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: to examine at all. In most cases you're not going 462 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: to have soft tissue. You can't appreciate hamorrhage and all 463 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: of that. But back to Northern Illinois, they felt it 464 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: that it would be in their best interest and for 465 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: the corner as well, to make sure that doctor Snow 466 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: got his hands on the skull to take a look. 467 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 2: And you know, Dave, you said something interesting in a 468 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: moment ago about how we can use a skull, for instance, 469 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 2: in order or some element of the skeleton to get 470 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: an ID. Now you know we're going to extract DNA, 471 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: but one of the things that DNA will not provide 472 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 2: to you is an assessment of discovered skeletal remains relative 473 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: to what brought about their death. And that's I think 474 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 2: that Clyde snowed. Any anthropologist, a physical anthropologist, I think 475 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: probably can do a racial assessment, or an age assessment, 476 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 2: maybe even a stature of assessment. But it takes somebody 477 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: like Clyde snow to come in and actually say, Okay, 478 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: I've got a skull. I don't see any kind of 479 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 2: trauma here that would give you the impression that this 480 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 2: was somebody that that it had their head chopped off 481 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 2: or was beaten to death because there's no underlying fractures, 482 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: and so he would take that big chomp out of it. 483 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: And from an investigative perspective, if you have somebody like 484 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 2: Cloude Snow saying all right, when you're looking in a 485 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: homicide here, you have to take your investigation in a 486 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: different direction. And the beauty of what they found took 487 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: them into an area that perhaps most people don't ever 488 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: think of. We have human remain that is sequestered in 489 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: a specific location that goes to At least in my mind, 490 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: it makes me think, well, this is something nefarious that's 491 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: happening here, because why do you go to the trouble 492 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: of obscuring or hiding a human remain? Uh and of 493 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: all places, you stick it in a wall. Why why 494 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: would you do that? It doesn't make sense or you know, 495 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: are you some kind of twisted maniac that's collecting human remains? 496 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: Will know because it's found, it's found in singular So 497 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: they're not collecting like body parts here. You know where 498 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: they're you know, like sitting there and looking at them 499 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: day after day and creating a huge pile. It's not 500 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: like that you have to look, you have to look elsewhere, 501 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: and so but still this could be a homicide. And 502 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: what what's the old adage about homicide. There's no statute 503 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: of limitations. So yeah, they know it's older, but they 504 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: don't know how old. And you could still have individuals 505 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: that could still be a lot. That's what I was 506 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: going to ask about this individual. 507 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: Can you really tell between ten years and one hundred 508 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 3: years if there if any controlled environment. 509 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that probably they could, at least 510 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 2: when forensic anthropologists talk to you, they never I'm not 511 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: going to don't misinterpret this anybody. I'm not. It's not 512 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: that they're not speaking in absolutes. There are some absolutes 513 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: in science, but with there are many absolutes and science. 514 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: By the way, with something like this, forensic anthropologists give 515 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: you bracketed time. None of are going to say, yeah, 516 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: this is within the last year. I mean, I guess 517 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 2: they could, but you'd have to have there are certain 518 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: circumstances that you have to consider. So once you the 519 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 2: further down the timeline you move with a human body 520 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 2: that it begins, it gets the dwindles. From an evidentary standpoint, 521 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 2: you're losing more and more and more and more, so 522 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 2: they might say, yeah, it's fifty to one hundred years old. Okay, Okay, 523 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: that's kind of bracket that you're looking at here. It's 524 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 2: hard to it's really hard to be to narrow it down. 525 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: And so when you get that bit of physical information 526 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 2: or assessment, you have to take that back and kind 527 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: of plug it in with any other data that you 528 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: would have here. You'd need to research who owned the house, 529 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 2: who occupied the space occupationally, what did they do? And 530 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: I don't really know how far they took that assessment. 531 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: When Clyde Snow would have gotten his hands on the remain, 532 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: he would have followed up and said that he would 533 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: confirm with the earlier forensic or the earlier anthropologist that said, yeah, 534 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: this is in this case, he thought that it was 535 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: a young female, younger female that when he looked he 536 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: could give them a racing of the skeletal remain. Again, 537 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: we're talking about a skull. You talked about what race 538 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: is she, well, he concluded that she's Caucasian. When you're 539 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: continuing to assess, you're going to try to determine if 540 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: there's any kind of indwelling disease that would present on 541 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: the bone, you know, like tuberculosis or something like that 542 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: that you might see just with the unaided eye. And 543 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: after that you're going to look for butcher marks on here, 544 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: anything on the skull that would give you an inditation 545 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: in indication that a still object or metal object had 546 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: made contact with the bone, you know, like a decapitation 547 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: or maybe surgical interventions, things like this. You'll do that 548 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 2: kind of trauma assessment, and then you have to try 549 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: to understand is this anti mortem or is it post mortem? 550 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: And again that's that's very difficult to determine, particularly the 551 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 2: further out you get, and there's a big there's actually 552 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: a big area where you can do assessments. And they 553 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: I've seen them do it. They'll refer to a human 554 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 2: remain as a medical specimen. And so you think about that, 555 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: you plug that and you say, well, why in the world, 556 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: why in the world would have somebody have a medical specimen, 557 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: Because many times those those types of skeletal remains will 558 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 2: have a particular appearance to them. They will give you 559 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: an indication of that you had some rudimentary attempts to 560 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: do a dissection perhaps, and the type of blade that 561 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 2: was used and all all of that and that kind 562 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 2: of assessment would have to go through tool mark examination, 563 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 2: but it was very broad, very broad strokes back then, 564 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: you know, during this time period as to how do 565 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 2: you assess assessor remain particularly when you have no idea 566 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: who the person is. And you know, that launches us 567 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: into the time that we're in right now, because it's amazing. 568 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 2: We're almost in this time of scientific miracles, if you will. 569 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 2: That you and I we were talking about our age 570 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: group earlier, you and I, we could not have even 571 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: have fathom this sort of thing happening when we were kids, 572 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: no way. And now authoram has opened up a door, 573 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 2: Dave that otherwise would not would have never have been possible. 574 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 2: That's why all this is so mind blowing. Where because 575 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 2: the technology that they have and their ability to combine 576 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: both science into a certain degree art I guess with 577 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: the combination of DNA modern DNA technology and the use 578 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: of an in house genealogy staff, they're able to call 579 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: upon these open databases that are out there with the 580 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: samples that they have, and begin able and be able 581 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: to you know, perhaps construct a family tree. And you know, 582 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: and they're they're you know, they're thematically you know, one 583 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: of the things that they say is they help families 584 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: get the answers they deserve. And you here's the thing 585 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 2: in our case from the Tavia, You're not even gonna 586 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: have a sense that you're related to somebody right that 587 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 2: this is actually an ancestor of yours. Can you imagine 588 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 2: somebody showing up and you know, contacting you out of 589 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 2: the blue and saying, hey, yeah, we we think we 590 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 2: we have the remain of one of your ancestors here. 591 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 2: It showed up in a DNA match that that this 592 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 2: company down in Texas, in the Woodlands, Texas, north of Houston. 593 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: They've they've structured this thing out and hey man, all 594 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 2: signs point to you. You get you get this, you 595 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: know this bolt out of uh you know, out of 596 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 2: the sky where you you wind up having an actual, 597 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 2: an actual match for somebody that has long long been dead. 598 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: Dave esther Anne Grainger. 599 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it turned out she was genetically they found 600 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 2: out a connection. Now get this, I don't really know. 601 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: I don't understand enough about genealogy to understand the kind 602 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 2: of framing of this. But he was her second great 603 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 2: grandson or great great grandson. I think this person that 604 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: they have identified in life here. So does that mean 605 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 2: that she did not survive the childbirth, but her child 606 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 2: did and then she was entombed after that? And remember 607 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: what I had mentioned about the Medical College of Georgia 608 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: just a few seconds ago, Dave. People don't realize that 609 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: gross anatomical study like where young want to be physicians 610 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 2: or offered an opportunity to stand alongside a dead body 611 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 2: and do detailed us That's something that is a recent 612 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 2: manifestation and perhaps just the last I don't know, just 613 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 2: over a century, because there were a couple of reasons. 614 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 2: First off, I think they probably would have had more 615 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 2: difficult time preserving bodies. But the biggest thing was that 616 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 2: there was an aversion by government officials and by the 617 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 2: public to allow the dead to be dissected. Isn't that amazing? 618 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 2: And so if you were some kid attending medical school 619 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: and you didn't actually get to touch touch a dead 620 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:38,959 Speaker 2: body to do a dissection, a gross anatomical dissection, it 621 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 2: puts you at somewhat of a disadvantage as you're trying 622 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 2: to become a clinician. 623 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: You imagine that no, I had no idea that this 624 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: was a thing. 625 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: And it was Foreboden, so they would hire. In case 626 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 2: of the Medical College of Georgia, they actually had I 627 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 2: think they were either slaves or maybe they had become 628 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 2: free men prior to the Civil War. They had these 629 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 2: gentlemen that were assigned by the medical school to go 630 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: out and rob freshly buried bodies, rob the graves and 631 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 2: bring them back. And can you imagine being in the 632 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 2: space with maybe a whale oil lamp and in the 633 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 2: dark of the night, because it's illegal what you're doing, 634 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 2: and you're dissecting these bodies out just to try to 635 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 2: understand human anatomy so you can better treat your patients. 636 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 3: In the could save lives in the future, using a 637 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 3: dead person to help save lives. 638 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it's a this is not something. And 639 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 2: let me tell you one more thing if you like that. One. 640 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 2: I've actually worked as an autopsy assistant. See how can 641 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 2: I say this. It was in Georgia and I was 642 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 2: doing extra work on side, and there was one location 643 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: I would go to in Georgia where there was a 644 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 2: medical school and I would only work weekends at this 645 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 2: location with this old doctor who I really admired, Dave. 646 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 2: When I would arrive at seven o'clock in the morning 647 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 2: to open up the door to go in and do 648 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: the autopsies. We would have a line of medical students 649 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,399 Speaker 2: from the local medical school because they didn't have enough 650 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 2: bodies in their gross anatomy. And this is modern time, wow, 651 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 2: And they were willing to do anything in the morgue, 652 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 2: I mean, just so that they could have access to 653 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 2: And this was years and years ago. It's probably changed now. 654 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 2: But and look, I want that in a physician. I 655 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 2: want a physician that's thirsty for knowledge. And how do 656 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 2: you balance this out? Well, back then, when esther died, 657 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 2: they saw this as a reasonable solution. Now they could 658 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 2: have all gone to jail for it. But yet her 659 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 2: grave was apparently disturbed and robbed, and it turned out 660 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 2: to be this young woman who died in childbirth when 661 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 2: there wasn't great prenatal care. You had a lot of 662 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 2: women that died in childbirth back then. But apparently apparently 663 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: her child may have survived and went on to be 664 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 2: a solution to a huge mystery, which of course was 665 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: solved some I don't know, one hundred and seventy five 666 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 2: years later, Dave Yep. 667 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 3: They were able to determine that Esther was one of 668 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 3: six children. She was born one hundred and six seven 669 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 3: in October twenty six, eighteen forty eight October twenty sixth, 670 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 3: eighteen forty eight. And investigative believe, of course, like we 671 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 3: told you that she was seventeen when she died through 672 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 3: complications of childbirth in eighteen sixty six. 673 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 2: So she had made it all the way through the 674 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 2: Civil War. Yeah, c ward, it ended the year before 675 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 2: and gone through all this, had borne witness to these 676 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 2: incredible times that those people survived, and she passed on 677 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 2: a childbirth. I think about how the family is impacted now, 678 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 2: these generations later. I would love to have a cup 679 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 2: of coffee with one of them, say, you know, just 680 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: what thoughts come to mind? You know when you think 681 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 2: about that you're connected to this person, so many of us, 682 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 2: you know, wonder who we're connected to in the distant 683 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 2: path and try to understand, you know, from you know, 684 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 2: from what did we come? You know, who are these people? 685 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 2: And even her very short life, she had born witness 686 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 2: to a lot of things and of course died, you know, 687 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,720 Speaker 2: trying to give birth to the next generation of her family. 688 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 2: But you know it's because of authoram that this mystery 689 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 2: is now solved. That, of course, and the help of 690 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 2: the individuals that that decided to chip in, and you 691 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 2: two can participate in an assisting assisting author in their 692 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 2: endeavors here to you know, I think to wipe out 693 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 2: those names that are on our name US list, the 694 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 2: National Database of Unidentified Persons. And you can donate anything 695 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 2: you want, and you can choose the case that you 696 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 2: want to donate toward. All they have to do is 697 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 2: hit seventy five hundred bucks and they can get started 698 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 2: on an investigation and you know, maybe give family some answers, 699 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 2: maybe give and descendants some answers. But check them out. 700 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 2: And if you go to DNA solves dot com d 701 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 2: NA solves dot com, you can see the cases that 702 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 2: need assistance there something maybe something will strike your fancy 703 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 2: or maybe just maybe you know someone that has an 704 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 2: unidentified human remain that you would like to get to 705 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: assistance in solving the case. You can contact them and 706 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 2: let them know and get the get the wheels turning. 707 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 2: But anyway, that's that's d n A solves dot com. 708 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 2: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags. 709 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 3: M m 710 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 2: HM