Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress high
Speaker 1: Whip Smarties. Today, we are joined by TikTok's big sister,
Speaker 1: you know her as Tanks, none other than Christina Najar.
Speaker 1: She is a New York Times best selling author. She
Speaker 1: is a podcast and radio host, and it's really her
Speaker 1: wit and candor that have established her as a resounding
Speaker 1: voice for women. She is engaging and empathetic and not
Speaker 1: afraid to change her mind. We all got to know
Speaker 1: her with her satirical rich Mom content five years ago,
Speaker 1: and her takes on pop culture, theories on sex, dating
Speaker 1: and relationships, and honest reviews and recommendations of everything from
Speaker 1: food and restaurants to beauty, fashion and lifestyle products have
Speaker 1: placed her squarely in the cultural zeitgeist. Tinks has a
Speaker 1: devoted fan base and everyone is incredibly excited for her
Speaker 1: new novel, Hotter in the Hamptons, which is available now
Speaker 1: and is being adapted for television. Next, let's dive in
Speaker 1: with Tanks. Okay, girl, Well, before we get into you
Speaker 1: know where we are and what we're all up to
Speaker 1: these days. I actually really like to kind of go
Speaker 1: a little back in time with people, and I'm always
Speaker 1: really curious if you could hang out with your younger self,
Speaker 1: you know, when you were nine or ten years old,
Speaker 1: do you think you would see a kind of connection
Speaker 1: to who you were becoming when you were a little
Speaker 1: kid and who you are right now?
Speaker 2: Hundred percent?
Speaker 3: I think I think you can definitely see the roots
Speaker 3: of who I am. I think I would be so
Speaker 3: excited if I knew that this was my life when
Speaker 3: I was like vibe, I would be like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, I made it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think you know who we are as
Speaker 3: kids kind of us in our most pure form in
Speaker 3: a way that's like who we are before the worlds
Speaker 3: with us and tells us that we can't do things
Speaker 3: and gives us doubt and insecurities. And I don't know,
Speaker 3: kids are so pure in that way. They're just like
Speaker 3: their personalities are so defined even though they're young.
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, so it's a really interesting thought.
Speaker 3: What about you.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you would see the roots of yourself?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? And I think to your point, you know, the
Speaker 1: the becoming and the sort of life paths and other
Speaker 1: people's influence and all sorts of things that I think
Speaker 1: I don't want to say, like took me off my
Speaker 1: path necessarily, but definitely I feel like I went through
Speaker 1: all sorts of stages and phases trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what was really for me. And I think to your point,
Speaker 1: when when you're really young, and I think, especially like
Speaker 1: feisty little girls, you kind of know yourself and then
Speaker 1: you get they told a lot about who you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to be or what you're not supposed to be.
Speaker 1: And I think, I think there's a really interesting thing
Speaker 1: as you evolve where in a way you you sort
Speaker 1: of also unlearn a lot to get back to sort
Speaker 1: of core self. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 2: I grew up in London?
Speaker 3: You did, Yeah, I grew up in London, and then
Speaker 3: I moved to the States when I was nineteen to
Speaker 3: go to college.
Speaker 2: But I think, like what you're saying is so interesting.
Speaker 3: It's like you're pure in yourself and then the world
Speaker 3: like changes you because you're like, oh, I need to
Speaker 3: be this, I need to try this, I need to
Speaker 3: be insecure, I need to do that. And then right
Speaker 3: around for me, like in my early thirties was when
Speaker 3: I was started to like be like, oh, I need
Speaker 3: to unlearn all that stuff and go back to who
Speaker 3: I really am, and I just think it's so interesting,
Speaker 3: like so many women have.
Speaker 2: I think most women have.
Speaker 3: This evolution of like real learning who you really are,
Speaker 3: because twenties is all about like like trying on different hats,
Speaker 3: like you know, oh, maybe I'll hang with these people, like, oh,
Speaker 3: am I like a cool girl?
Speaker 2: Or am I like this girl?
Speaker 1: Or whatever?
Speaker 2: And then New York thirties, you're like, I actually just
Speaker 2: need to go back to who I am. And it's
Speaker 2: like it's kind of amazing. I love it. I'm into
Speaker 2: thirties so far.
Speaker 1: Oh I like that. That makes me really happy to hear.
Speaker 1: I loved turning thirty, I think especially because you know,
Speaker 1: for me and some of my closest friends, we just
Speaker 1: spent nine years on a show where, by the way,
Speaker 1: we repeated high school, so right, it's a emotional holdback, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we were sort of stuck there and all
Speaker 1: the discovery so many of our friends did in their
Speaker 1: twenties we didn't really get to do. So in this
Speaker 1: really interesting way, I felt like I was discovering a
Speaker 1: lot in my thirties. And then also it felt like
Speaker 1: the task of the first half of my thirties was unlearning,
Speaker 1: like very devout good girl behavior at work, like no,
Speaker 1: I don't always need to make everything easier for everyone
Speaker 1: else totally. And then, weirdly, the second half of my thirties,
Speaker 1: I think I had to confront that I didn't even
Speaker 1: know how to do that for my own life. And
Speaker 1: then at forty, like the first year that I was forty,
Speaker 1: everything shifted and I went, oh, okay, I get it,
Speaker 1: now this is my time.
Speaker 2: I love that. Do you do like what kind of
Speaker 2: self work do you do?
Speaker 3: Or like what kind of like how how do you
Speaker 3: best like get to know yourself? And like do all
Speaker 3: these things like do you new therapy, journaling?
Speaker 1: I mean everything you know artists' way. I I found
Speaker 1: a great, great therapist who I really like. And I
Speaker 1: think finding the right therapist for you is kind of
Speaker 1: like finding the right partner for you.
Speaker 2: Agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: It's like there's relationships you've been in that have been great,
Speaker 1: they serve a reason, they take you through a season.
Speaker 1: You can love people and then move on from them.
Speaker 1: And I think interestingly like therapy can be a lot
Speaker 1: like that too, where it takes a while to get
Speaker 1: from just enjoying hanging out with someone to get to
Speaker 1: a really constructive place where you know that your life
Speaker 1: is better because of their presence.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I know, finding a good therapist is
Speaker 3: like it's so key, it's so crucial.
Speaker 1: Has it been that for you too? What's what's Yeah?
Speaker 3: I have like an amazing therapist that I worked with
Speaker 3: for like five years, and I've been doing my job
Speaker 3: for five years. So I started like being online five
Speaker 3: years ago, and it was so crucial to have someone
Speaker 3: who could like support me during this like weird job
Speaker 3: that I have where it's like, you know, it's not
Speaker 3: normal to get so much feedback on yourself, Like I
Speaker 3: think that's not like a normal human experience. And so
Speaker 3: for anyone who is in the public eye, you know,
Speaker 3: the regular public eye or on the internet, like it's
Speaker 3: just a bizarre experience to hear so much about yourself
Speaker 3: back to you, and you need someone to really help
Speaker 3: you weather that and help you process and be like, no,
Speaker 3: it's not normal, Like it's actually really strange, Like it's
Speaker 3: really strange that you get thousands of comments about your
Speaker 3: appearance or this or that or like it's bizarre. So
Speaker 3: my therapist is amazing, and I've been with her for
Speaker 3: five years, and you know, to your point, she really
Speaker 3: like does make me a better person. And I just
Speaker 3: so appreciate the work we do together. And I journal
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: I actually am. I've done the Artist's way before, but
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't do it properly.
Speaker 3: So I'm planning to do it this summer really just
Speaker 3: like take time and like really really use it. I
Speaker 3: feel very ready and very called to do it right now,
Speaker 3: So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1: I do too. It's really interesting because I have a
Speaker 1: friend of mine gave it to me literally ten years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's your time. And I've carried this
Speaker 1: weathered copy around in my backpack on like every trip,
Speaker 1: to every set, to every everything. And I got about
Speaker 1: halfway through it last summer and went, Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: actually have the time I want to devote to this,
Speaker 1: to finishing it. And in a weird way, I think
Speaker 1: I also had to get to a point in my
Speaker 1: life where I could be okay with that, where I
Speaker 1: could put a book down halfway and be like, I'll
Speaker 1: revisit this when I have a beat. It's important to me.
Speaker 1: I'll come back to it. I used to have a
Speaker 1: real kind of all or nothing like perfectionist tendency, which
Speaker 1: is terrible because perfectionism just sets you up to fail
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Its perfect doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: So to unlearn a little bit of that has been
Speaker 1: really interesting too, did it. I wonder for you this
Speaker 1: shift into online life because I'm thinking about when we
Speaker 1: met at our mutual friend's house at that barbecue. I
Speaker 1: feel like it was kind of in the first year
Speaker 1: or maybe that you were doing this thing, and I
Speaker 1: think about your history, you know, going to Stanford getting
Speaker 1: a masters at Parsons, Like you you had goals that
Speaker 1: you were pursuing in a more traditional light, and then
Speaker 1: you stepped into this very non traditional space. And to
Speaker 1: your point, that comes with a flood of information about
Speaker 1: yourself that is not healthy. And you've talked about the
Speaker 1: anxiety of I guess the byproduct of the anxiety that
Speaker 1: comes with that. Like, why do you think the shift happened?
Speaker 1: What led you to say, Oh, I've gotten this kind
Speaker 1: of an education, but now I'm going to live with
Speaker 1: it in this non traditional fashion. How did you kind
Speaker 1: of make sense of what you thought you were going
Speaker 1: to do versus what you actually do now and how
Speaker 1: it's shifted your.
Speaker 3: Life honestly, don't even think I was aware of it
Speaker 3: when it was happening. I just like was thrust into
Speaker 3: the online world and I loved it. It's like very alluring,
Speaker 3: Like obviously, especially at the beginning, you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: like the validation feels so good and you feel so popular,
Speaker 3: and you know, you think this is incredible, like everyone
Speaker 3: thinks I'm funny whatever. And then so I wasn't like
Speaker 3: super cognizant of where I thought I was going to
Speaker 3: be and like what I'm doing now. But I will
Speaker 3: say I think that a lot of who I thought
Speaker 3: I was going to be has helped me in this job.
Speaker 3: Like I worked in corporate America, Like I know how
Speaker 3: to send an email, I know how to do a
Speaker 3: PowerPoint presentation, Like all that stuff has become useful in
Speaker 3: a way in this world. And that's truly how I
Speaker 3: try to just operate anyway, Like even if you have
Speaker 3: an experience where you're like, oh I didn't like this,
Speaker 3: or like this was a bad job, or this was
Speaker 3: this or that, like you always can take something from it,
Speaker 3: and it's always building to who you are going to become.
Speaker 3: And that's like giving me a lot of peace throughout
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 2: So I try to think about that.
Speaker 1: Allen, Yeah, I like that. How do you? I guess
Speaker 1: I'm curious about this because I know what it is
Speaker 1: to have a lot of people think they know a
Speaker 1: lot about you, and your online life is so fractional
Speaker 1: to who you are as a human. And I have
Speaker 1: the weird thing where there are people who who know
Speaker 1: or think they know me, Sophia, and then there are
Speaker 1: people who will see me and be like Brock or
Speaker 1: Aaron right, like they like, yell a character name at me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you are Christina and you're also Tinks. But Tinks
Speaker 1: is you ish?
Speaker 2: It's so weird?
Speaker 1: Does it feel like a character? Is it a nickname
Speaker 1: that came from a friend that now blew up the persona?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: How do you? It's so funny.
Speaker 3: I feel like Tinks is like I feel like I
Speaker 3: am Tinks, Like I really do feel like it. But
Speaker 3: you know, it's also like it's online persona, like it's
Speaker 3: not really who I am. And so it is interesting
Speaker 3: when people think that they know like all about me,
Speaker 3: and I mean you have the same thing. It's like
Speaker 3: it must be even crazier for you because you're like
Speaker 3: exactly some people think they know who you are. Some
Speaker 3: people literally think that you're a character that they have
Speaker 3: so much emotional attachment to that they feel like deeply
Speaker 3: connected to you. And you're like, that was not me.
Speaker 3: That was a projection of a character that I like
Speaker 3: was the vessel for Like, that's got to be really shrippy.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think all of these relationships that we have are
Speaker 3: so interesting, and it's like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it is beautiful to connect with people over whether it's
Speaker 3: a character or something online, but it's just it's just
Speaker 3: shades of reality. You know, it's different, different pinpoints of reality,
Speaker 3: different points of your personality, and you know, I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is kind of a trip. And I think
Speaker 1: especially no matter how open or private you choose to
Speaker 1: be online, you can try to be your most authentic self.
Speaker 1: You can try to be vulnerable where you find it appropriate.
Speaker 1: You can try to be the most honest about things,
Speaker 1: and people are still going to receive you as they
Speaker 1: receive you, not as you are, and that is a
Speaker 1: really interesting thing. I mean, how to have to balance
Speaker 1: other people's expectations when you're just you and they're just them,
Speaker 1: but suddenly there's two million or five million or ten
Speaker 1: million of them and you're still just you. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: do you kind of toe the line, you know, being
Speaker 1: an online girly and maintaining a sense of privacy because
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about dating, you talk about your life.
Speaker 1: How do you figure out what to share and what
Speaker 1: to hold.
Speaker 3: I've scaled back a lot on talking about like my
Speaker 3: like I try to talk about dating in a general
Speaker 3: concept and not like my own experience as much now,
Speaker 3: because I definitely was at a point where I was
Speaker 3: kind of dating and I was telling my followers like too.
Speaker 2: Much like I was.
Speaker 3: I would be on a date and I would be
Speaker 3: literally thinking like, oh, I'm going to tell the girls
Speaker 3: about this tomorrow, like, and that's no way to live.
Speaker 3: I had to set that boundary, like, which is a
Speaker 3: shame because it's the best content and people love it
Speaker 3: and it would always go viral and whatever. It was
Speaker 3: so fun, but it just ultimately made me feel confused
Speaker 3: about what was me and like what was the story
Speaker 3: that I was telling? And that's not healthy, like, you know,
Speaker 3: And I think it's a trap that a lot of
Speaker 3: content creators fall into, where they're like they'll do things
Speaker 3: so that they can talk about it in content, and
Speaker 3: I was just like, I need to keep this for myself,
Speaker 3: Like I'm going through the you know, I'm going on
Speaker 3: dates with people, and maybe I spend time with people whatever,
Speaker 3: But like I'll tell my followers once it's past, you know,
Speaker 3: once it's in the past, and it's it's just a story.
Speaker 3: But I think that the active telling, like during when
Speaker 3: you're seeing someone was just was too intense and it
Speaker 3: was too confusing, and it just it gets it gets
Speaker 3: to be confusing. I would I would think like, wait,
Speaker 3: do I really like this person or am I just
Speaker 3: going on a date with them so that I can
Speaker 3: like do a podcast about it the next day.
Speaker 2: Like that's no way to live. And it's just like you,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: You have to set boundaries with yourself and be like
Speaker 3: what am I willing to do for views? And you know,
Speaker 3: it's always evolving, and I'm really glad that I kind
Speaker 3: of like hold back and I love sharing my life,
Speaker 3: like I really do love sharing it with my community,
Speaker 3: but there's also just certain things where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't need to share everything. Like I was literally
Speaker 3: in the gynecologist yesterday and I was like going to
Speaker 3: do like a whole thing about.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like that.
Speaker 3: That's another really big gray area for me because I
Speaker 3: have the privilege of like having health care, and I
Speaker 3: have certain you know, endo and pcos and things that
Speaker 3: so many women suffer from, and I know that a
Speaker 3: fraction of my followers have the same, like not a
Speaker 3: lot of people have access to good health care. And
Speaker 3: so that's a gray area for me because I want
Speaker 3: to inspire women who follow me to go and be
Speaker 3: their own advocates and you know, ask questions about their
Speaker 3: birth control and ask questions about why they have pain
Speaker 3: and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: But it's also just difficult because it's like it's such a.
Speaker 3: Sensitive thing and I'm not a doctor and I never
Speaker 3: want to give medical advice and you know, but it's
Speaker 3: like I also know I have this platform and I
Speaker 3: want to inspire theomen and be like no, like ask
Speaker 3: your dog again, like if you feel this or whatever.
Speaker 3: So that's another area where I'm like, damn, am I
Speaker 3: really on the internet talking about my IUD again? But
Speaker 3: I hope that that helps, you know, Like that's an
Speaker 3: area where I don't mind it to overshare a little
Speaker 3: bit because it could inspire someone to go and ask
Speaker 3: again or find a better solution for their health issue
Speaker 3: or whatnot. So it's hard, but you kind of have
Speaker 3: to just like set your boundaries and do your best.
Speaker 1: I totally feel that. And it's tricky too, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't I've thought about this for myself where it's
Speaker 1: like I don't only want to reflect on something when
Speaker 1: I feel like I've really buttoned it up, you know,
Speaker 1: where I've really settled in it, and then I can
Speaker 1: talk about it. It's like, sometimes I think it's really
Speaker 1: healthy to say I don't know yet, I don't have
Speaker 1: the answer, I'm figuring this out. But then there's the
Speaker 1: inverse where if you do that, if you don't have
Speaker 1: the exact right sound bite or you don't you know,
Speaker 1: seem a hundred percent confident, people are like, oh, look
Speaker 1: at this person. They're in a struggle. They backed out
Speaker 1: of an answer.
Speaker 3: They and it's sometimes you.
Speaker 2: Just don't know yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes you don't, and also sometimes you change your mind,
Speaker 3: like you know, like some sometimes they're like, oh, well.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one, you said that.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, that was four years ago, Like
Speaker 3: are you saying you never change your mind when you
Speaker 3: get new information like that's badshit, Like yeah, and that's
Speaker 3: it's it's it's it's really tough, Like I always like
Speaker 3: feel so oh my god. Like just to use the
Speaker 3: birth control example again, I was like, because people want
Speaker 3: to know and I get it because it's like a
Speaker 3: thing that women talk about all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, I had an audi. I really liked it,
Speaker 2: and then I took it out and people were like,
Speaker 2: but you said you liked it, why did you take
Speaker 2: it out? Like da da da dad?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, dude, Like, we're all changing all the time,
Speaker 3: our bodies, our minds, everything, and you just kind of
Speaker 3: have to like you're can be inspired by people that
Speaker 3: you see, but you don't have to like follow exactly
Speaker 3: what they say. You kind of kind of just use
Speaker 3: it as an inspiration. But yeah, it's it's tricky.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really
Speaker 1: enjoy it and I think you will too. I also think,
Speaker 1: I mean, even what we were talking about when we
Speaker 1: first jumped on, things are also shifting in ways that
Speaker 1: we have to figure out how to address. Like there
Speaker 1: are people who have been in my life who I
Speaker 1: have respected who've like, in the year twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: gone a little cuckoo and turned into people who I
Speaker 1: watch like lie on the internet because now they're selling
Speaker 1: you stuff with the lie and I'm like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: super embarrassed that I talked about how inspiring I thought
Speaker 1: this person was five years ago. But now they're like
Speaker 1: hawking snake oil and you know, making money doing it,
Speaker 1: and I'm like icky, And so I think, I think
Speaker 1: your example of reminding people that you're allowed to change
Speaker 1: your mind is important.
Speaker 2: You can always change your mind.
Speaker 3: It's like the smartest people that I know are people
Speaker 3: that like change their mind. It's like strong opinions, loose held,
Speaker 3: like that's what I say, and that's what I like.
Speaker 3: If you give me new information, I'm happy to say,
Speaker 3: you know what I was wrong or Okay, yeah that's
Speaker 3: sounds totally.
Speaker 2: Right, or like whatever.
Speaker 3: I think we all need to be more nimble, and
Speaker 3: I think we all need to be like get in
Speaker 3: the habit of doing that more.
Speaker 2: I think with the Internet, people.
Speaker 3: Really like to be like what you said, like or
Speaker 3: you used to and it's like, dude, we should be
Speaker 3: encouraging people to constantly be increasing their information and flow
Speaker 3: and being like oh yeah, like I see that differently,
Speaker 3: or I do see your point.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna change my mind, or actually I don't put
Speaker 2: that person.
Speaker 3: Anymore because of X Y Z like normalize it, normalize it,
Speaker 3: like we can't be we can't be doing this. And honestly,
Speaker 3: like I have to say, I think that I think
Speaker 3: the left and I'm I'm you know, would call myself
Speaker 3: definitely on the left, Like I think that the left
Speaker 3: could actually be a lot better about that in general.
Speaker 3: Instead of being like no, no, no more arguing amongst ourselves,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we got bigger goals.
Speaker 2: We got we got way bigger goals. We have to
Speaker 2: really like eyes in the prize now. And that's something
Speaker 2: I think about all the time, Like I'm.
Speaker 3: Just like, you know, if someone I don't know, I
Speaker 3: just think, got to stay nimble, got to stay open minded.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you know what it makes me think
Speaker 1: of for us, you know, the there's that like don't
Speaker 1: panic art that you see everywhere where, like all the
Speaker 1: little fish are being chased by the giant fish. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the little fish make and even bigger fish and
Speaker 1: go after like the one. I'm like, guys, we have
Speaker 1: to stop like little fish fighting and make the to
Speaker 1: get the big fish because like are you paying attention
Speaker 1: to like logging and they're legalizing chemicals like arsenic like
Speaker 1: in the air. Yeah, we have to stop with some
Speaker 1: of the semantics and.
Speaker 2: Some of that.
Speaker 3: And I know we're like on the internet like getting
Speaker 3: on each other's asking like well you said this, and
Speaker 3: I think technically we should say this. And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 3: we actually have like like alarm bells should be ringing,
Speaker 3: like this is a weird and weir in crisis.
Speaker 2: And I think that we.
Speaker 3: Can stop fighting amongst ourselves about like whatever in the
Speaker 3: TikTok comments and we should all be banding together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, because the billionaires are trying to poison
Speaker 1: our water and build bunkers and we still need tap water,
Speaker 1: so like, let's.
Speaker 3: Also Meticans don't fight amongst themselves, like I honestly like,
Speaker 3: I honestly admire them. I think it's one of their
Speaker 3: greatest strengths is that they never fight with each other.
Speaker 3: You never see that, like even if they have disagreements,
Speaker 3: that they're never like publicly like talking bad about each other,
Speaker 3: like having squabbles.
Speaker 2: They are united and boid does it show well?
Speaker 1: And they unite in like a crazy way, in a
Speaker 1: crazy way like when I when I when I see
Speaker 1: certain things happen and I go, oh, well, that's going
Speaker 1: to be the end of this for someone like you know,
Speaker 1: Roy Moore, a pedophile running for office, and the Republicans
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, but he's a conservative civil vote for him.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what the fuck? Like what And
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't think that's good banding together
Speaker 1: at all. I think that's actually really terrifying.
Speaker 3: No, but it's like, but it just it does illustrate
Speaker 3: like how hard they ride for each other, and I
Speaker 3: think that's a huge key to success. Like even when
Speaker 3: Pete Hagscept literally chatted war group plans like yes, they
Speaker 3: were like, well, who hasn't done that? And I'm like
Speaker 3: if someone on the left that everybody else would be
Speaker 3: like bring them at the stake, like kick them out,
Speaker 3: Like no, And I'm like, to your point, it's not good,
Speaker 3: but it's effective.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, And it's like the thing that was never
Speaker 1: lost on me was that it was the tech people
Speaker 1: from the George Bush White House that gave Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: the server. They were like, oh, this is the only
Speaker 1: way you're going to be able to do your work
Speaker 1: also from home. We'll come set it up for you.
Speaker 1: And then and then the Republicans turned it into this big,
Speaker 1: like this radical leftist scandal, and I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is what this is, like bipartisan technological information sharing,
Speaker 1: and you can critique it, but to act like it
Speaker 1: was like some step things she did when Bush's guy
Speaker 1: literally did it for her, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And then they're on signal and I'm like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so really nothing matters. But they stick together to your.
Speaker 2: Place, they stick together, they stay together. It's a clear goal.
Speaker 3: It's singular goal, and it's stay in power, and they're
Speaker 3: doing a really good job of it.
Speaker 2: And I would like to see less like less left
Speaker 2: on left crime.
Speaker 1: I'm like, let's just totally agree.
Speaker 3: It's like, do you want to be right or do
Speaker 3: you want to win? You know, like the kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, and it's past for.
Speaker 1: Me even like right or win. It's like do you
Speaker 1: want to be the most right or do you want
Speaker 1: to lose the planet. It's like I feel like we're
Speaker 1: in an endgame. I'm like, guys, if we don't figure out
Speaker 1: how to be the Avengers, like, yeah, the universe blows.
Speaker 2: Up, so I know, I know it's scary. It's scary times,
Speaker 2: it's scary.
Speaker 1: It's also I think important for us to have conversations
Speaker 1: like this. I think it's important for us. I really
Speaker 1: do think it matters for people who care and who
Speaker 1: care to be informed, who are willing to operate with
Speaker 1: a science mind to say, I do agree that science
Speaker 1: is real. Truth is truth, like the air should be lean,
Speaker 1: and I always want to learn more. I always want
Speaker 1: to intake more. I always want to challenge myself to
Speaker 1: expand my purview. I think that that requires I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, at least for me, it requires a certain
Speaker 1: amount of maturity. I think I was much more like
Speaker 1: Damn the man burn it down person in my twenties
Speaker 1: than I am now. I've really learned to value, you know,
Speaker 1: patience and pragmatism, and I can have hard conversations that
Speaker 1: are not do or die. Yeah, like in this moment
Speaker 1: for you, and you know that might be for me
Speaker 1: getting into my early forties, in this sort of mid
Speaker 1: thirties moment for you when you look at the girls,
Speaker 1: you know, as you talk about being tech talk's older sister, Like,
Speaker 1: when you look at these girls who look up to
Speaker 1: you in their twenties, are there are there lessons like this,
Speaker 1: you know, patience, willingness, whatever it may be. Are there
Speaker 1: lessons you really wish you could pass down to them
Speaker 1: that you've had to learn as you've entered a new decade, I.
Speaker 2: Think one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And I try to like share as much as possible,
Speaker 3: and some of them, you know, you really just have
Speaker 3: to kind of go through it, like some of it
Speaker 3: is just life experience and you need to just kind
Speaker 3: of do it.
Speaker 2: But I always say, like I wasted.
Speaker 3: So much time in my twenties, like worried about body
Speaker 3: image stuff, and I think that's one of the ones
Speaker 3: where it's tricky. But if I could just impress upon
Speaker 3: the younger girls like to not let it be the
Speaker 3: main thing in their life and like we all have
Speaker 3: our struggles, we're all on a journey. One hundred percent.
Speaker 3: It's terrible for women. But I just feel like if
Speaker 3: I had wasted a few less hours like being so
Speaker 3: mean to myself and just like how much it held
Speaker 3: me back, Like I think just literally switching self talk
Speaker 3: to being from negative to positive, like genuinely will change
Speaker 3: your life. And I so I hope that, you know,
Speaker 3: listening to me, they can kind of try to do
Speaker 3: it a little earlier. I mean, I think dating like
Speaker 3: not seeking validation from other people, not losing yourself in
Speaker 3: relationships like so important, and you know, my twenties, I
Speaker 3: was just seeking validation. I just wanted validation. I didn't
Speaker 3: I wasn't even like, oh does this person like me?
Speaker 3: Like am I having a good time? Like do I
Speaker 3: feel seen? It was just like I need to like
Speaker 3: have this validation if this person liking me back, and
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: So I try as much as possible to share my.
Speaker 3: Experiences and and and just like you know, encourage them
Speaker 3: to think about things and to think about themselves more kindly.
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's what I want.
Speaker 3: I mean I kind of also wish I had had
Speaker 3: when I was like in my twenties. I wish I'd
Speaker 3: had an influencer who was like single, because I felt
Speaker 3: like everybody online was in a relationship and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm such a freak, like it's only me, and so
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe I'm like hopefully if they're single,
Speaker 3: they can see that you don't die. If you're single,
Speaker 3: it's you can have fun, you can have a full life,
Speaker 3: and it's actually like a beautiful state of life, and
Speaker 3: you should everyone should be grateful for all those stages.
Speaker 1: Totally. I also think it's so I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, we sort of split. I won't say a generation,
Speaker 1: but we split a decade, you and I And I
Speaker 1: feel like in my twenties, all women were ever encouraged
Speaker 1: to ask essentially boiled down to the unasked question, which
Speaker 1: was am I being chosen?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: What do I choose? What do I like? What makes
Speaker 1: me feel good? What makes me feel secure? How am
Speaker 1: I being treated? It was like what can I do?
Speaker 1: And how can I and where can I live? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was this It was really sort of toxic.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, you know, I've had to come to
Speaker 1: terms even with how the pressure that I don't even
Speaker 1: know that I was conscious of about wanting to be
Speaker 1: a parent and what forty men and all of these
Speaker 1: things sort of made me not self interrogate certain things
Speaker 1: in ways. Yeah, getting into something that I thought was
Speaker 1: one thing and then I realized was not, And like
Speaker 1: it was a weird moment for me to sit and
Speaker 1: go Oh, I had such a good time spending years
Speaker 1: of my thirties being single and I had no pressure
Speaker 1: about it. And then I almost feel like that thing
Speaker 1: from back then crept back in and I didn't even
Speaker 1: see it coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got to talk about this stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so real. I know, some of the best
Speaker 3: years are the single ones, and you've just got to
Speaker 3: enjoy it for what it is and like push the
Speaker 3: pressure outrage against it because it's just not useful or
Speaker 3: helpful at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think that attitudes like that are changing
Speaker 1: in what you see at least with your audience online,
Speaker 1: because you know, you talk about the I'm talking about
Speaker 1: that pressure, you're talking about body image for example. There
Speaker 1: are so many ways we've been sort of consciously or
Speaker 1: subconsciously encouraged to make ourselves a little smaller or a
Speaker 1: little more self conscious. Do you think it's changing.
Speaker 2: I wish that I could say it was.
Speaker 3: I think like the society we live on is a patriarchy,
Speaker 3: and it like thrives off of keeping women down. And
Speaker 3: I honestly, sadly think that a lot of the aggression
Speaker 3: we're seeing towards women now is a reaction is a
Speaker 3: direct reaction to like the Me Too movement, Like I
Speaker 3: think that that was a big power moment for women
Speaker 3: where we were able to band together and like really
Speaker 3: start talking about something that has plagued women since the
Speaker 3: dawn of time and something that's extremely difficult and extremely
Speaker 3: hard to talk about.
Speaker 2: We've found a way. And my personal opinion is that.
Speaker 3: A lot of like the war on women's health care,
Speaker 3: the war on abortion, the war on women right now
Speaker 3: is kind of a direct reaction to women banning together
Speaker 3: and being like, oh, no, actually.
Speaker 2: You can't do this anymore. We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 3: I feel like with women, we fight so hard and
Speaker 3: we still can only make incremental progress because the odds
Speaker 3: are really stacked against us. And right now, I think
Speaker 3: like with this current administration, it just feels very aggressive
Speaker 3: towards women, and it feels like women are sometimes not
Speaker 3: even people in their eyes. Like you know, when I
Speaker 3: were always reading the thing about like, oh they're going
Speaker 3: to pay women, Maybe they'll pay women five thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: like it's an incentive to have a child, and it's
Speaker 3: like that's insulting because the hospital built to actually birth
Speaker 3: the baby is more than five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So that's that's actually insulting.
Speaker 3: Like if you actually thought of women as people, you
Speaker 3: would address that the fact that there's no universal healthcare,
Speaker 3: you would address the fact that there's no manatory paid
Speaker 3: like you would address you know, like you would even
Speaker 3: address all the problems we have with kids, guns in schools,
Speaker 3: et cetera. But they they're not thinking about women as people.
Speaker 3: They're thinking about them as a tool to get to
Speaker 3: their economic goal.
Speaker 1: Well, they're thinking about us as breeders. And the unfortunate
Speaker 1: thing is and they really gave it away in that
Speaker 1: Dobbs decision when they said they want to ensure a
Speaker 1: domestic supply of infants. And then you find out that
Speaker 1: there's tech companies that are pitching, you know, oh, Texas
Speaker 1: is a great place to build your company because look
Speaker 1: at our birth rates, you're going to have a big
Speaker 1: labor force.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's honestly weird. It's like, don't does it
Speaker 3: not bother you? Like as a fellow human being? Like
Speaker 3: does it not bother everyone?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: Like that's how they're thinking. Like it creeps me out.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, what, I don't know. That doesn't really
Speaker 2: doesn't put me in the mood to have a child,
Speaker 2: but whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. It's just like I think
Speaker 3: it's getting better in the sense that I think women
Speaker 3: are super aware of like what's happening to them and
Speaker 3: what's going on. It doesn't make it any easier, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. It doesn't make it any easier
Speaker 3: in the day to day.
Speaker 2: And so I don't know.
Speaker 3: Like the stats are saying women are thriving, that we're
Speaker 3: going to college more, more, more single women own homes
Speaker 3: in the US over thirty than single men, Like women
Speaker 3: are outperforming men in every vertical, But like, why doesn't
Speaker 3: it feel better?
Speaker 2: Why doesn't it feel better?
Speaker 1: Because the fact that we are, the fact that, as
Speaker 1: you said, we've gained any measure of power, is why
Speaker 1: we're being attacked and trying to be relegated to second
Speaker 1: class citizens again because they don't like it. And it's
Speaker 1: like you forget that it's not a this or that
Speaker 1: and us or them. It's if we get paid better,
Speaker 1: the GDP of the country goes up, everyone gets paid better,
Speaker 1: everyone does better. It doesn't have to be this sort
Speaker 1: of totalitarian dogg eat dog energy Like that's so patriarchal.
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, I know, and that's like not what
Speaker 2: women want. They seem like a matriarchy, and like I
Speaker 2: know that, I know we don't. We don't want to
Speaker 2: like and all men.
Speaker 3: We just want to like get paid fairly and like
Speaker 3: not be like have life be so hard, Like it's not,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's it's you know, I'm so proud
Speaker 3: of women for all that we've done, for those stats
Speaker 3: that you hear, like it's it's really incredible about how
Speaker 3: women are just in so many verticals, like really making
Speaker 3: incredible advancements.
Speaker 2: I just wish that it, you know, felt like more.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I felt felt like nicer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I wish it felt like we weren't
Speaker 1: in quicksand all the time.
Speaker 2: Oh, such a good way to put it. That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of it for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. I want
Speaker 1: to I want to pivot to some joy because you
Speaker 1: know your book is out. Yes, it's so exciting you
Speaker 1: by the way, you wrote a story about women, like
Speaker 1: when you think about becoming an author, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: What was the what was the impetus for this Where
Speaker 1: did the story come from? Why did you decide you
Speaker 1: wanted to write a book? Why did you want it
Speaker 1: to be fiction instead of your story? Like, how did
Speaker 1: this come to fruition? How did you take literary power?
Speaker 2: I wanted to do something that was purely creative.
Speaker 3: I like, I think that, you know, sharing my life
Speaker 3: online is like it's always about me, and I'm a
Speaker 3: bit sick of myself, to be honest with you, And
Speaker 3: I just like wanted to do something that was like
Speaker 3: a story. I've always loved storytelling and stories and and
Speaker 3: you know, I used to write these little characters on
Speaker 3: my Instagram and I was just like, well what if
Speaker 3: I kept going and like finish the church story?
Speaker 2: So I wanted to do something that was fun. You know.
Speaker 2: I also think you really need escapism right now.
Speaker 3: I wanted it to be light and glamorous and sexy,
Speaker 3: and I wanted you to be able to like drink
Speaker 3: rose and read it in one sitting one summer's day
Speaker 3: and just like have a glimmer into the world of
Speaker 3: influencing in the Hampton's and like just glamorous, fun, sexiness.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's I wanted to do it because.
Speaker 2: I was inspired to do it, and that's like the
Speaker 2: purest thing.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, were you drawing on real life experience,
Speaker 1: Like have you spent a lot of time in that space?
Speaker 1: Where did this sort of story begin.
Speaker 3: I've spent a lot of time in the Hampton's. Honestly,
Speaker 3: a lot of it was like inspired by my followers.
Speaker 3: Certain questions they would ask me kind of sparked my creativity.
Speaker 3: And you know, I made the main character an influencer
Speaker 3: because that's the knowledge I have.
Speaker 2: But she's not me.
Speaker 3: It's you know, there might be some easter eggs in there,
Speaker 3: there might be a few characters based on real life people,
Speaker 3: but she's not me. I just wanted to do like
Speaker 3: a creative story, something that was separate from me, and
Speaker 3: something that just felt like escapism, like summer escapism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And obviously I have to I have to
Speaker 1: ask about some of the online you know, narrative about it,
Speaker 1: because the novel is it is it's glamorous, it's luxurious,
Speaker 1: it's spicy, so sappok. There's been a ton of you know,
Speaker 1: conversation and chatter about what's appropriate there and what's not
Speaker 1: because you're not a queer woman, but you had a
Speaker 1: queer collaborator Gabrielle. But then people were saying, you know,
Speaker 1: she wasn't credited properly, And then you were like, but
Speaker 1: she's in the acknowledgments, like can you catch us up
Speaker 1: what happened here?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why do you think it took off that way?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I like, I had the best experience,
Speaker 2: Like I think it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not a lesbian, so I I don't have
Speaker 3: that lived experience, and I wanted to get it right.
Speaker 2: I wanted to nail.
Speaker 3: It, and I thought, I think it's also the right
Speaker 3: thing to do to like hire a queer voices and
Speaker 3: you know, collaborate when needed. And it was an amazing experience.
Speaker 3: She's an amazing writer and we had a great time
Speaker 3: working on it together. So I don't I'm not really
Speaker 3: sure why the narrative like took off like this. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: Do you maybe think it's about what certain people think,
Speaker 1: Like you were saying what the right term should have been,
Speaker 1: like you acknowledge her as a collaborator. Other people said
Speaker 1: you can't deny a ghostwriter, and you're like, how is
Speaker 1: someone a ghostwriter if they're literally printed as a collaborator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you feel like it's an x's and o's thing.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I think, like when you hear
Speaker 3: the word ghostwriter, it sounds like someone just wrote the
Speaker 3: book and like a celebrity slaps their name.
Speaker 2: On it, and that's not what this is. So I think, like,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, I think we're matter, but like she's literally the
Speaker 3: first person acknowledged in the credit, in the acknowledgments, like right, so,
Speaker 3: so I think like And also a lot of the
Speaker 3: people who are commenting on it haven't read it yet,
Speaker 3: so I think maybe when they read it, they might
Speaker 3: see more of like what it is and what it's not.
Speaker 2: I feel, so yeah, so we'll see obviously.
Speaker 1: You guys, you know you can't help a grin when
Speaker 1: you talk about her. You had a great experience working
Speaker 1: with her. What is it like to work with a collaborator?
Speaker 1: And I ask, because it's something I think a lot about.
Speaker 1: I love writing, but I you know, I'm more of
Speaker 1: a classically or you know, partially collegiately trained journalist, like
Speaker 1: an op ed or an essay is really my space. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I think about some ideas that I you know,
Speaker 1: I am toying with and I'm like, maybe it would
Speaker 1: be really fun to write something with someone because I've
Speaker 1: never written a book before. What was it like to
Speaker 1: sit down with someone? What does collaboration look like? Are
Speaker 1: you walking around the city like recording your conversations? Are
Speaker 1: you zooming? How is it to learn that with somebody
Speaker 1: like her?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's amazing, Like it was my first time
Speaker 3: writing fiction, so I feel like I learned so much
Speaker 3: from her. She's an incredible writer, and it was it
Speaker 3: was a great experience. Like I'm a really collaborative person.
Speaker 3: I like to learn all the time, and yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was great, Like I don't I don't know why,
Speaker 3: as is with online, like everything gets twisted into something
Speaker 3: that it's not Like it was an incredible experience and
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that I did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and that's why I'm I'm like, what is
Speaker 1: it like to collaborate with someone rather than you know
Speaker 1: what everybody else wants to dissect it into, like were
Speaker 1: you guys in the same city or were you were
Speaker 1: you doing more phone calls like across the country? You know,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you get into the cadence
Speaker 1: of a creative project.
Speaker 3: Like that we like, I mean we worked together so
Speaker 3: closely and like it would take on different forms. We
Speaker 3: were in the same city, but you know, we would
Speaker 3: talk all the time and it was very like very
Speaker 3: back and forth, like constant communication, constant working, constant talking.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: That's really exciting. And the book has barely been in
Speaker 1: the world and it's already been announced that it's going
Speaker 1: to be a show the Fosters sisters are doing.
Speaker 2: Is so excited.
Speaker 1: What is What does it feel like now that the
Speaker 1: book is coming out? Obviously you've had a while since
Speaker 1: it's been finished, and now you're going to start to
Speaker 1: develop it for the screen. Do you feel like, because
Speaker 1: of how much time you've had with the book, you're
Speaker 1: really ready for that. Does that also feel like a
Speaker 1: completely new adventure and you're ready to learn how that works? Like?
Speaker 1: Where are you in that process?
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be an executive producer.
Speaker 3: The Fosters are so smart and so incredible, and I
Speaker 3: am so excited to roll my sleeps up and get
Speaker 3: to work. And we started working on it, you know,
Speaker 3: start talking to writers, So I can't wait. It's going
Speaker 3: to be a new skill more learning, and I'm just
Speaker 3: so excited.
Speaker 1: That's really cool. Will you? Will you start trying to
Speaker 1: identify like a showrunner first and then go from there.
Speaker 3: We're talking to writers right now, so someone who will
Speaker 3: be able to adapt it for the screen. So that's
Speaker 3: just an incredible experience. Meeting all these super talented people
Speaker 3: and just hearing their ideas about how to best adapt
Speaker 3: it for TV is like so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Do you have kind of a
Speaker 1: dream cast in your mind or does it feel like
Speaker 1: I do? You do?
Speaker 2: But it's on my phone? But it's like, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying who it is because I want to manifest I
Speaker 2: don't want to drinx it. But yeah, I have people
Speaker 2: that I would really love to be involved, so we'll see.
Speaker 2: I think if anyone can do it, it's the Fosters.
Speaker 2: They're so smart.
Speaker 1: I love this for you guys. It's really exciting when
Speaker 1: you think about the book, when you think about Hotter
Speaker 1: in the Hamptons, although I guess book show either is
Speaker 1: there an immediate craziest Hampton story that's yours or someone
Speaker 1: else's that comes to mind?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I have a crazy Hampton story, but
Speaker 3: I signed an Nda so I can't talk about it.
Speaker 3: Oh and I but yeah, Like, I'm so inspired by
Speaker 3: the Hamptons.
Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time there and it just
Speaker 2: is one of those places.
Speaker 3: It's very crazy, always happens, it's always romantic, it's always
Speaker 3: like wild.
Speaker 2: And so that was all like big and.
Speaker 3: Spell for the book as well, just that it's a
Speaker 3: place where, like truly anything can happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the kind of place that feels like a
Speaker 1: character in and of itself.
Speaker 3: Just like New York and sexon City. It's like exactly,
Speaker 3: it's one of the characters. So I'm excited for people
Speaker 3: to get immersed in that world.
Speaker 1: I love it. I can't wait. Okay, I have a
Speaker 1: few and they can be rapid or not if you prefer.
Speaker 1: But since you are TikTok's big sister, we have a
Speaker 1: couple of large, sort of feme questions that we need
Speaker 1: your advice on. First of which, what do you think
Speaker 1: is the biggest dating red flag.
Speaker 2: When they don't ask you questions about yourself? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes, and when people are rude.
Speaker 2: To God, that's unacceptable.
Speaker 1: What's your first date deal breaker? Is it being rude
Speaker 1: to servers and arrest.
Speaker 2: Rude to server, rude to anyone, just like bad energy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Do you think it's ever okay to ghost someone?
Speaker 1: We actually got that question a lot in advance of this.
Speaker 3: I think it's okay if you've never met them in person,
Speaker 3: like if you're talking on an app, like, I think
Speaker 3: it's okay to just it's fine if you've never met
Speaker 3: them before.
Speaker 2: But yes, exactly, exactly okay.
Speaker 1: Do you think you can ever come back from getting
Speaker 1: the eck?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it's possible if you really like them.
Speaker 2: I think it's solvable for sure too. Yeah.
Speaker 3: If it's small, I think you get over it. You're like,
Speaker 3: oh I can look past this.
Speaker 1: Mmm. Interesting. I don't think I've ever gotten over it
Speaker 1: because it takes me a little while. You get there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get there. It's like it's it's like a stick
Speaker 1: of work in it. It's definitely done.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We talked about this a little bit, but more in
Speaker 1: terms of your online community. But for you, if you
Speaker 1: could give your twenty two year old self one piece
Speaker 1: of advice, what do you think.
Speaker 2: It would be?
Speaker 3: Stop worrying so much. It's really not it's really okay.
Speaker 3: And you're very young, and you don't need to have
Speaker 3: everything figured out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that a lot. And lastly, not a
Speaker 1: rapid fire question, but what when you sort of look
Speaker 1: out at the year ahead of you right now and
Speaker 1: all the things you're working on and the place you
Speaker 1: are in your life, what feels like you're work in progress?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: My gosh, myself. I'm always We're all always works in progress,
Speaker 2: like we all are. We're never done and it's just
Speaker 2: more about like enjoying the journey and enjoying working on yourself.
Speaker 2: And yeah, we're never done working on ourselves. I'm the
Speaker 2: work in progress, I guess always