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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and animal biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show we're talking about zoe pharmacognosi.

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Speaker 1: It's a mouthful for saying animals heal thyselves. These animals

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Speaker 1: have figured out how to treat their own ailments with

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Speaker 1: the medicine available to them in their habitats. Plus what

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Speaker 1: can we learn from animals about human medicine? Dis Cover

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Speaker 1: this and more as we answer the age old question

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Speaker 1: does swallowing a rough leaf a day keep? Doctor zayis away.

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Speaker 1: Joining me today is host of the podcast The House

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Speaker 1: of Pod Doctor cave Hodo. Welcome.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I am so excited.

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Speaker 2: Can we first address that you are the host of

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Speaker 2: Many Parasites? Can we talk about what's happening with you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's nothing on uh, sort of the norm, right,

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Speaker 1: No normal amounts of parasites, No tapeworms, as far as

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Speaker 1: I'm aware, probably plenty of demodex. Now, some might argue

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Speaker 1: that demodex are mutualistic, not parasiites. I disagree. I think

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Speaker 1: they are probably you know a little bit parasitic.

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Speaker 2: No, tenuous solum in your brain though.

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm aware of. But it could be that

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of it, and yet it is

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Speaker 1: sort of a messing with my ability to recognize.

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Speaker 2: You're doing very well, then, yeah, if you do have

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Speaker 2: neurosister psychosis, you're you're holding up very well, my friend.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pretend I know what that is and

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Speaker 1: say I don't have it.

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Speaker 2: Good, Okay. This is a reference to the recent finding

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Speaker 2: of a worm in RFK juniors. Yes, which, if there,

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Speaker 2: it might be a ten solo. That's that's probably the

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Speaker 2: pork larvae tapeworm. Right, it's hard to say.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not usually in the brain, right, it usually

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Speaker 1: is it? Is it a typical gut parasite or is

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Speaker 1: this like a miss kind of case where it's not

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Speaker 1: supposed to be in there at all?

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Speaker 2: No, you could get it in the brain. In fact,

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Speaker 2: neurosister circosis is not an uncommon, totally uncommon cause of

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Speaker 2: adult onset seizures. It doesn't happen. No, I'm not a

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Speaker 2: fan of it either. We don't see a lot of

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Speaker 2: it here in the United States. I mean, it's in

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Speaker 2: places where the food regulation might be a little different.

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Speaker 2: So it's not very common finding here at all.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that that's that's good, I guess. So the idea

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Speaker 1: is that RFK when he was going around trying to

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Speaker 1: convince other countries not to do vaccines, he did get

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Speaker 1: a little bit of maybe the brain worms from the

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Speaker 1: water or something. Is that the idea.

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Speaker 2: I like to think that the g of the eighty

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Speaker 2: three Samoans that died because of his influence going anti

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Speaker 2: vax had somehow haunted him with a worm in his brain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have no proof of that, but in my heart

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Speaker 2: I believe it.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes science has to give way to just hope.

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Speaker 1: And I also hope that it was bingeful ghosts of

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Speaker 1: people killed by anti vax nonsense that got him that

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Speaker 1: worm in the brain. And it's it is funny because

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Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, maybe it was an improvement

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Speaker 1: on his personality. Usually the worm in the brain precedes

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Speaker 1: the strange behavior, but I think that was before the enwormination.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I don't know if that's a word, but

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Speaker 2: I like it.

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Speaker 1: You know your doctors, so you probably would know if

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Speaker 1: that's the word.

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Speaker 2: You know what it is.

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Speaker 1: It is now it is now we've just done it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, today we are actually talking about animal who

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Speaker 1: practiced medicine on themselves. I mean, I'm sure you worked

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Speaker 1: very hard going to medical school, residency, all these things now.

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Speaker 2: But you know I got through with a lot of

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Speaker 2: charming charisma. Yeah, I'm totally honest. It wasn't that much work.

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Speaker 1: That would you say? The number one skill you need

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Speaker 1: is just not sleeping?

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Speaker 2: Oh that really helps. If you can find ways to

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Speaker 2: not sleep, you will do much better in medicine. That's correct.

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Speaker 1: Yep, natural and healthy. So yes, there's recent news that

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Speaker 1: an orangutan was observed healing a wound on his face

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Speaker 1: using plant medicine. So this was an observational case study

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Speaker 1: published recently in the journal Nature titled Active Self Treatment

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Speaker 1: of a facial Wound with a biologically active plant by

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Speaker 1: a male Sumatran Orangutan by lommer at All at the

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Speaker 1: Max Plunk Institute of Animal Behavior. So essentially, these researchers

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Speaker 1: saw an orangutan get a pretty gnarly like wound gash

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Speaker 1: on his face and then he tried to treat it

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Speaker 1: with plants. So this was an orangutan in Sorry South

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Speaker 1: et Cha Indonesia, and he would chew up the leaves

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Speaker 1: of the acrcooning plant and then sort of smear the

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Speaker 1: juices into the wound, which sounds really pleasant. And then

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Speaker 1: it would take the chewed up leaves and then kind

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Speaker 1: of like put that on top and cover up the wounds.

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Speaker 1: And then after you know, several weeks, it seemed like

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Speaker 1: the wound healed pretty well. And the interesting thing is

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Speaker 1: that the leaves of this plant have not only been

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Speaker 1: used in traditional medicine, but they also have these compounds

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Speaker 1: that are believed to have some antibiotic, pain relieving, anti fungal,

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Speaker 1: anti inflammatory properties. So it would appear, if this observation

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Speaker 1: is correct, that this orangutan selected these this leaf which

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Speaker 1: specifically may be better than any average leaf at helping

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Speaker 1: heal a wound and putting it on this facial wound

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Speaker 1: that he sustained.

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Speaker 2: If I may ask the question I'll probably ask like

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Speaker 2: thirty times in this episode, is is there a belief

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Speaker 2: that this was a thought process that the orangutang, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I love orangutangs. They're adorable. They're stars

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Speaker 2: of some of my favorite movies in the eighties. If

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Speaker 2: like the orangutang did this on purpose because they knew

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Speaker 2: that this was a healing salve or something, or if

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Speaker 2: there's some sort of evolutionary thing where it's like orangutangs

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Speaker 2: happened to like the feeling. Some orangutangs developed this sensation

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Speaker 2: they like to have a on their face and it

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Speaker 2: feels good for them. They don't know why they're doing it,

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Speaker 2: but the ones that did it tended to be healthier

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Speaker 2: and live longer to pass on their genetics like natural

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Speaker 2: selection type stuff. I mean, does this seem like the

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Speaker 2: renda tank knew what it was doing? Is my question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is an extremely good question, and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of what we're trying to get behind today, like

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Speaker 1: get to the root of and it's really hard to answer.

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Speaker 1: The short answer is nobody knows, not yet anyways. But

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Speaker 1: the long answer is that this is not the first

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Speaker 1: case of apes seeming to use medicine. This is the

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Speaker 1: first like modern like sort of recorded observation of an

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Speaker 1: ape or an animal applying like a salve to a wound. Now,

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Speaker 1: there could have been a lot of prior observations that

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Speaker 1: just by locals that you know, were in Nature journal, right,

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Speaker 1: But the other observations have been of apes doing this

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Speaker 1: behavior called leaf swallowing, where instead of chewing up a leaf,

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Speaker 1: they like roll it up or fold it and then

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Speaker 1: swallow it whole, which seems odd because by doing that

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Speaker 1: they're not actually getting much of the nutritional benefit of

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Speaker 1: the leaf. They're already leaves are already extremely fibrous, it's

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Speaker 1: very difficult to digest, so chewing the leaves is a

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Speaker 1: bit of predigestion that helps them process the leaves, so

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Speaker 1: swallowing it whole and then it comes out basically whole

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Speaker 1: in their poop. So it's a really odd behavior. And

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Speaker 1: so when researchers looked into it further examined the poop

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Speaker 1: of these like chimpanzees, gorillas, or ringutans who did this behavior,

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Speaker 1: they found that the poop would often contain parasites, so

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Speaker 1: like you'd find a tape form or nematode parasites in

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Speaker 1: the feces, and various research would find that there would

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Speaker 1: be more expelling of these parasites, like in feces that

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Speaker 1: had poop are well, feces generally contains poop, and poop

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Speaker 1: that had leaves in it, it also would have a

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Speaker 1: higher rate of these parasites in it. So the idea

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Speaker 1: is that these leaves, which are usually really rough textured

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Speaker 1: leaves not very pleasant to eat, necessarily are just because

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Speaker 1: it's so rough and kind of like scratchy, almost a

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Speaker 1: little abrasive when it'd go through the intestines, it would

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Speaker 1: like physically scrape out some of the parasites that these

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Speaker 1: apes would have.

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Speaker 2: That is fascinating. But okay, so I guess the question

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Speaker 2: is and I don't know how you do studies on apes.

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Speaker 2: I only know limited amounts of how you do research

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Speaker 2: on humans, but like, were they able to like ever

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Speaker 2: be like, Okay, we know that the ape a has

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Speaker 2: a parasitic infection because we tested their stool all and

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Speaker 2: we know that ab does not, and we saw that

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Speaker 2: more likely it was a a that would do this.

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Speaker 2: Is that or do they all kind of just do

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Speaker 2: it right like every now and then just swallow a

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Speaker 2: leaf like that?

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Speaker 1: This is the perfect question and it's one that I

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Speaker 1: I had as well, and I was frustrated because I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find any like really good studies of like we

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Speaker 1: have a healthy h chimpanzee that has no parasites, and

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Speaker 1: a chimpanzee with parasites, and we put these an array

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Speaker 1: of leaves, which ones do they select? There's no study

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Speaker 1: like that, right, I mean probably violates a lot of

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Speaker 1: ethics because like to infect a champanzee with intestinal parasites.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but there's a lot of weird research.

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Speaker 1: So but no, I couldn't. I mean, perhaps such as

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Speaker 1: the study exists, I couldn't find it, So I suspect

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Speaker 1: it's a precise study like that has not existed. There's

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Speaker 1: been a study where they found that there's more leaf

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Speaker 1: swallowing in a chimpanzee colony that is closer to human farms,

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Speaker 1: and it's speculated that there's more incidence of parasitism in

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Speaker 1: these apes because there's more sort of like with more

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Speaker 1: human activity, there's more parasites, and so maybe these chimpanzees

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Speaker 1: are getting more parasites and so doing more leaf swallowing.

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Speaker 1: But that's there's so many confounding factors. There could be

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Speaker 1: that they are there's not enough food in these areas

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Speaker 1: for these apes, and so they're resorting more to swallowing

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Speaker 1: leaves just to feel full, even if it's not as

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Speaker 1: nutritionally beneficial. So the unsatisfying answer is that. No, there

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Speaker 1: has not been, to my knowledge, any studies that have

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Speaker 1: shown directly that a sick chimpanzee knows to have this

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Speaker 1: plant to settle its stomach, or if it's something they

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Speaker 1: do sort of just like you know, as a preventive thing,

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Speaker 1: not knowing that it's necessarily preventing, uh, parasitism, but just

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Speaker 1: they do it routinely, or whether they do it when

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Speaker 1: they have a stomach ache and they're not feeling well.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there's Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It makes I could see that last one making sense.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when we talk about apes, it makes a

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Speaker 2: lot more sense to me than if it was like

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Speaker 2: a dog or something. But let me ask you another question.

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Speaker 2: Do you have the same fear that I do, which

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Speaker 2: is like, if this gets out, this news becomes more prominent,

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Speaker 2: it's only a matter of time before there's some Instagram

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Speaker 2: influencer saying swallow folded up leaves in your gi track,

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Speaker 2: and then we get like bezors in people's stomachs because

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Speaker 2: they're listening to some terrible influencer online. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna talk about how later in the show,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about how to actually use inspiration from

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Speaker 1: nature to make like medicine that is safe and effective.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't want to just see what the

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Speaker 1: chimpanzee is doing and be like, well that's gonna work

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Speaker 1: for me, because we're different animals, we have different constitutions. Also,

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Speaker 1: modern humans have typically much better outcomes than say a

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Speaker 1: wild chimpanzee. So it's not like the chimpanzee is choosing

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Speaker 1: between this leaf and a pharmacy with uh, with medicines

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Speaker 1: that have been tested for efficacy and safety. All they

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Speaker 1: got is leaves. So it's understandable for them to do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, things it is. There is just a common

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Speaker 1: thing of like, well it's natural and it works for chimpanzees,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, you know what else chimpanzees do. They

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Speaker 1: eat their own poop sometimes. Do you want to do that?

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Speaker 3: Yes, there are people on line that want to do that.

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Speaker 3: Once a month, there's somebody online who's like promoting drinking

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Speaker 3: their own urine. No, and like the health benefits of that,

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Speaker 3: and someone will tag me in that, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: please stop tagging me in the videos of people drinking

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Speaker 3: their own urine.

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Speaker 2: I don't at this point I'm like, fine, fine, urine,

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Speaker 2: just don't give it to kids.

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Speaker 1: There are iCal transplants, but you don't. It's not just

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Speaker 1: eating the poopoo.

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Speaker 2: It's a very very.

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Speaker 1: Specific process of eliminating the dangerous aspects of the poop,

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Speaker 1: because if you just inject poop into you, you just

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Speaker 1: get sepsis exactly true.

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Speaker 2: And it's done usually via colonoscopy. They'll go in, you

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Speaker 2: do a prep, you're all go through that whole process,

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Speaker 2: and then they put in this, you know, medically clarified

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Speaker 2: stool mixture. So yeah, I mean, uh, it's a weird.

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Speaker 2: It's a weird job. It's a weird job. I have

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Speaker 2: a weird job.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think that it's Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: is a big difference between like taking inspiration from nature

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Speaker 1: and investigating these things and just being like, I've seen

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Speaker 1: an animal do this, so I'm just gonna eat it.

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Speaker 1: But I think there is, especially in the US now,

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Speaker 1: which it's very hard for me to explain these issues

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Speaker 1: to my new European friends, but it's like when you

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Speaker 1: tell people that something is definitely not safe to do,

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Speaker 1: they're like, I'm gonna do that thing right now. Like

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Speaker 1: with the with the eight five in one milk. It's

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Speaker 1: just like, just like, I need the raw milk now,

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Speaker 1: because you're telling me it's not safe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, state, right, come on, I'm America.

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Speaker 1: So it's very concerning that the trust in public health

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Speaker 1: is at a point where it's like, guys, just please

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Speaker 1: don't drink raw milk, and people are panic buying raw

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Speaker 1: milk to get get it before it's gone.

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Speaker 2: I guess thank you for saying that. Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's not good. So anyways, yes, I am definitely not

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Speaker 1: saying that you should eat scratchy leaves and potentially create

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Speaker 1: micro tears in your colon. Don't do that. We have

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Speaker 1: better stuff for curing stomach ailments. Yeah, it is. It

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Speaker 1: is really interesting because when like if you look at

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Speaker 1: some of the compounds in the plant that the right,

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Speaker 1: not the not the leaf swallowing chimpanzees, but the uh,

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Speaker 1: the rington who put the chewed up leaf on his wound.

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Speaker 1: It's like, uh, they it had these like specific things

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Speaker 1: which I'm gonna really try to pronounce this and it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be good, but here we go, uh, ferano

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Speaker 1: dite terpenoids and proto berberine alkaloids that you know, apparently

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Speaker 1: like on their own they have some good like anti inflammatory,

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Speaker 1: anti fungal effects, and so that it's very interesting that

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Speaker 1: it's like it is using this leaf that cannot emphasize enough.

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Speaker 1: Don't just go around to leaves putting it on your wounds.

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Speaker 1: It's not gonna be great. But this ringutan does not

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Speaker 1: have access to a hospital for orangutans, so this is

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Speaker 1: what it's.

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Speaker 2: Got to do. I would watch that show though, the

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Speaker 2: Ingtang Hospital. I would if that was like the soap opera,

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Speaker 2: I would watch that every day.

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Speaker 1: What if that? Because you know how like it was

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Speaker 1: sort of funny how Scrubs was the most accurate doctor show.

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Speaker 1: But then like what if a ring atan er Oh

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Speaker 1: sorry no? Or oh are a tan?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Or oh are and get u tan. We're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna workshop this.

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Speaker 2: And make this happen. Oh I love it. But it's

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Speaker 2: like really realistic, Like so it's like it's like two

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Speaker 2: ringgatank sing in a room talking about like acid base values.

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Speaker 2: Like do you like the details of the really boring stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's like no drama. Yeah, it's just like it's just

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Speaker 1: sort of normal, like uh, hospital stuff, which I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's some drama, but it's extremely realistic. It's just everyone

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Speaker 1: is a nerangutan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like finding like a insurance to cover things

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Speaker 2: like pain. By the way, thank you for I do

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Speaker 2: agree with you. We've actually talked about this on the show.

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Speaker 2: It had like a you know, a screenwriter, come on.

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Speaker 2: We've had like on a couple of episodes we talked

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Speaker 2: about like what movies are our shows are most accurate.

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Speaker 2: And I do think Scrubs is. I mean it it

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Speaker 2: speeds things up and it simplifies things in a way

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Speaker 2: you have to for TV. But the pathos of it,

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Speaker 2: like how it gets like the day daily routine of

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Speaker 2: medicine correct is really good and I think it is

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Speaker 2: probably the best in that category for that.

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Speaker 1: This is this is what I've heard. I haven't spent

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Speaker 1: a single day of my life as a doctor, so

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know personally, but you know, I have been

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Speaker 1: you know, among doctors or or at a hospital, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like everyone's just running around, you know,

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Speaker 1: crying or making out all the time. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it does seem pretty realistic. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: uh I am I am calling copyright on the earringatan

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Speaker 1: show idea, nobody's steal it. It's gonna be gonna be

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Speaker 1: a big hit.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, in terms of your question about like whether

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Speaker 1: is this just like a sort of like to what

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Speaker 1: extent is this behavior something like is it instinctive? Is

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Speaker 1: it just doing it because like they have like a

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Speaker 1: tummy ache or pain and they know from experience that

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Speaker 1: this kind of like helps. Uh, it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: make that determination. But there have been studies that try

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Speaker 1: to find out, like how these these behaviors even start

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Speaker 1: in the first place, and studies that kind of look

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Speaker 1: at captive chimpanzees compared to like wild chimpanzees, they find that, uh,

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Speaker 1: there are cases where captive chimpanzee will spontaneously start, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying things like leaf swallowing. So but they're not that

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Speaker 1: many of them, so like a small number, like maybe

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Speaker 1: one out of a group of like twenty might like

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Speaker 1: start spontaneously swallowing leaves without having learned it. But then

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Speaker 1: when you expose a group of naive chimpanzees to an

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Speaker 1: older female who knows how to do this and then

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Speaker 1: starts doing it, they start to do it at this

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Speaker 1: high rate. So it seems like it's this combination of

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Speaker 1: like some of them kind of have the ability to

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Speaker 1: sort of innovate and go, like, I'm wondered what it'd

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Speaker 1: be life if I, like if I tried swallowing this

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Speaker 1: leaf whole, because when I chew it feels unpleasant, but

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Speaker 1: when I swallow it whole, it feels kind of nice.

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Speaker 1: But they're not that many of those. But then the

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Speaker 1: other ones learn from those like kind of individuals who

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Speaker 1: tend to be the ones that are more maybe a

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Speaker 1: little more curious, a little more innovative. So it seems

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Speaker 1: to be that there is a sort of a combination

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Speaker 1: of like this instinctive like curiosity about things, of trying things,

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Speaker 1: trying to consume them, and learning from others.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's still not clear whether they're doing it in response

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Speaker 1: to having a tummy ache. I highly doubt they would

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Speaker 1: have an understanding of intestinal parasites. I think the extent

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Speaker 1: to it would be I have a tummy ache. When

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Speaker 1: I swallow this plant, it feels better, And I think

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Speaker 1: that's I think that's very probable. It's definitely not been proven,

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Speaker 1: though that makes.

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Speaker 2: Sense to me. I guess my basic lack of understanding

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Speaker 2: and I apologize is I wasn't even really aware that

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Speaker 2: apes could teach each other stuff. I know they could

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Speaker 2: learn stuff, but I didn't know if that was like

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Speaker 2: a common finding that like a mother ape could teach

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Speaker 2: a baby ape something and they would be able to

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Speaker 2: Has that been proven?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Can they teach each other sign language? I know they

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Speaker 2: can learn sign language?

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Speaker 1: Right, yes, they probably could. And I think that there's

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Speaker 1: like I don't know that that's been shown specifically with

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Speaker 1: sign language, but I think in a different like it was.

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Speaker 1: I think these were bonobos that were being taught lexigrams,

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Speaker 1: like not sign language, but like you know, pointing to

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Speaker 1: various lexigrams. And I'm trying to remember the specific case,

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Speaker 1: but I think it was like this younger bonobo who

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Speaker 1: was like the son of an older one who had

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Speaker 1: learned this, learned it really well, like learned it a

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Speaker 1: lot better after being not only exposed to human tutors,

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Speaker 1: but also to like previous older bonobos who had learned this.

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Speaker 1: So and then there's also tons of instances observed cases

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Speaker 1: in nature, so like even like macaques, Japanese macaques learned

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Speaker 1: from what researchers believe is like a single female who

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Speaker 1: learned how to wash yams in seawater, not to clean it,

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Speaker 1: but to get the salt on it, which improved the

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Speaker 1: flavor and introduced some nutritious salt to their diet. And

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Speaker 1: so like once she started doing it, it passed on

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Speaker 1: sort of like wildfire throughout these macaques. And so then

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Speaker 1: there are these these macaque troops that learned from her

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Speaker 1: how to wash these well season They learned how to

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Speaker 1: season their food with salt. Yeah, and then there's like

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Speaker 1: there's like culture in terms of urutans, there's different like

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Speaker 1: nest building techniques because they learn that from their mothers,

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Speaker 1: and so different regions with different groups of urnatans will

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Speaker 1: have different methods of different construction methods used to build

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Speaker 1: these nets, different construction methods used to build these nests.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's I think it's pretty settled

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Speaker 1: that there's definitely learning that's happening and learning from generation

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Speaker 1: to generation, and so I think it is. It's just

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Speaker 1: it would be so interesting to me if we could

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Speaker 1: isolate whether they have learned how to use this medicine

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Speaker 1: for like tummy aches when they have them, how that's taught.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why this new observation with the seringutan

401
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: is so exciting because it's like clearly directed towards this wound. Right,

402
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: it's not just like randomly rubbing something. He's putting it

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Speaker 1: specifically on this spot that's bothering him. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it's fun and it's kind of the

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Speaker 2: question for me is that, like, is there like if

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Speaker 2: an ape swallows it? Was it because a long time

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00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: ago there was an ape who had some genetic predisposition

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Speaker 2: that made him like the taste of swallowing it, and

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Speaker 2: then turns out he was healthier. But either way, Like,

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Speaker 2: I think this is really fascinating. And then I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're probably gonna get to it, but I have thoughts

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Speaker 2: about how this might affect humans. I'm sure we're going

413
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Speaker 2: to talk about this later in the episode, but I

414
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Speaker 2: think this is a very interesting thing to monitor. I mean,

415
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Speaker 2: because I don't know this realm of science that well.

416
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Speaker 2: Is our studies like this really common? Or is it

417
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Speaker 2: hard to study aipes because there we don't have that

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Speaker 2: many in captivity and we don't have the numbers or

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Speaker 2: the money or the interest in doing it. How how

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Speaker 2: are studies like this done? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think I think that the interest in it is high,

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Speaker 1: but the difficulty is also extremely high. So the expense,

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Speaker 1: the difficulty, Uh, the ethics as well, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of these a lot of these primates you know, are

425
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Speaker 1: not you know, they are in vulnerable positions, like irengutans

426
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Speaker 1: are very vulnerable. So if you wanted to go out

427
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Speaker 1: and capture a bunch of ringutans so that you could

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Speaker 1: have them in a controlled environment, it would be very

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Speaker 1: un ethical and you'd be breaking a bunch of conservation

430
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Speaker 1: laws right, right, So it is very difficult, I think,

431
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Speaker 1: to do these studies.

432
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: It's all observational I guess.

433
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and observation in the wild that might seem easier,

434
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: but first like being able to observe these animals who

435
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 1: are very cautious, right for good reason, because they do

436
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: often come into conflict with humans that can end up

437
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: killing them. So they're very private, very cautious, very so

438
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: that it's hard to observe these behaviors because they're so secretive.

439
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: And so the fact that we just have this documented

440
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: observation again, like it's very possible locals have noticed this

441
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: behavior before, right, they just didn't get their findings published

442
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: in Nature. So it's like but the reason maybe this

443
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: behavior is more common, but we wouldn't necessarily know. It's

444
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: actually why one of the largest animals, well the largest

445
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: animal in the world, blue whales, right, we know so

446
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: little about them, which is weird because it's like, well,

447
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: they're so big, we should know everything about them, but

448
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: we can't study them very easily because to get to

449
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: where they are is very difficult to sort of follow

450
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: them and observe them in their natural environment, very difficult

451
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: to study them. How do you do an autopsy on

452
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: a blue whale? How do you do an MRI of

453
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: a blue whale? It's it's extremely difficult. So it's like,

454
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: there are these animals that are that are a huge

455
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: feature of our world, right, and then it's so hard

456
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: to study them. And I think that is the case

457
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of great apes. We do a lot

458
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: of studies on primates in general, right, like Reese's monkeys,

459
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: there are tons of studies on them. Smaller, smaller primates

460
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: can be more closely studied, but yeah, I think for

461
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: things like gorillas, for chimpanzees, for orient Tan's, it is

462
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: even bonobo's, Like there there are a lot of studies,

463
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: but it's really hard to do studies, say on like

464
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: an actual social group of them, which is why, like

465
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: Jane Goodall had to kind of go undercover for so

466
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: long just to get this information on chimpanzees.

467
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I hate to jump ahead because you might

468
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: already be planned to discuss this. But since you brought

469
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: up like whales, are there examples of marine animals like

470
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: dolphins really intelligent and we know are really intelligent doing

471
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: anything similar. I'm sure it's much much harder to observe

472
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: those things. But are there examples of other animals other

473
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: than apes doing this sort of stuff? Oh?

474
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean you've probably even like if you have

475
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: a dog or cat, you know that sometimes they'll eat

476
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: grass right to make themselves throw up. That's a that's

477
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: a form of self medication. There's a lot of self medication.

478
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: And in terms of marine animals, it seems to be

479
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: that dolphins will do things like use I don't know

480
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: if this is necessarily self medication rather than like self protection,

481
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: but they'll like use a sponge, a sea sponge to

482
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: protect their nose when they're rooting around, say in some

483
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: really like sharp like areas where it's like sandy. But

484
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of coral, so maybe it's sharp.

485
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: So if they're rooting around for food there, they want

486
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: to like a nose protection because otherwise they're gonna get

487
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 1: little cuts on their nose. They've also they've also been

488
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: observed sort of like like slightly chewing sort of on

489
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: like certain like fish or marine animals that are have

490
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: a like a neurotoxin. But if it's only imbibed a

491
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: little bit, it can kind of get you high. Uh,

492
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: dogs have been absorbed like licking coads.

493
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Bumper for those animals that are used just to get

494
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: high for their animals.

495
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: No, I know, it's kind of weird. It's gotta be

496
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: weird to have like a dolphin like chew on you

497
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: or nuzzle you because it's trying to get high. But yeah,

498
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean it is. It is harder, I think, in

499
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: general to observe dolphins and whales, and so they may

500
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: be doing very complicated self medication that we don't really understand.

501
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: But we're gonna take a quick break and when we

502
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: get back, we're gonna answer the question of whether you

503
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: actually need to be smart to do medicine. Oh, I'll

504
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: answer that right now, all right, So I don't mean

505
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: this as a jab at you. But the question of like,

506
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: do you need to be intelligent to use medicine to

507
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: self medicate, and interestingly, in the animal world, the answer

508
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: seems to be no. So like it makes sense that

509
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: maybe a chimpanzee or a dolphin or an elephant might

510
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: learn how to use things from their habitat to self medicate,

511
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: to treat themselves to do something that feels good, and

512
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: then maybe they learn it from their parents. Maybe it's

513
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: trial and error. But there are animals that are just

514
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: like don't They come with sort of a set of

515
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: pre programmed instructions and they are able to do relatively

516
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: complex and intelligent things without having much of a cognitive landscape.

517
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: So we are talking about fruit flies, which are fascinating

518
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: little animals, but I wouldn't give them the award for

519
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: like smartest animal.

520
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: I've never seen any work of art that they've created.

521
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 2: I think they're probably not that smart.

522
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: Smear on window it is is a famous.

523
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: One, but that's also because it's probably some squash them,

524
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: so it's probably the human that squashed them. But real quick,

525
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: before we get to that, you mentioned the dog and

526
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: the cat before and how they would eat the grass,

527
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: and I love dogs and cats. I like cats in particular,

528
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: I'm a cat guy, but I don't I would never

529
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: put their intelligence on the level of an ape. It's

530
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: harder for me to believe they're eating grass to throw

531
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: up like a kitty epicac if they if, I find

532
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: it hard to believe that they're doing that purposely.

533
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: I mean. So, it's interesting because in terms of dog

534
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: and cat intelligence, dogs have been a lot of our

535
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: understanding of dogs have kind of changed in a lot

536
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: of like you know how we were talking about the

537
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: difficulty of using apes in studies. There's this sort of

538
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: movement to use more dogs and fewer apes in studies

539
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: because it's more ethical. And also we're finding a lot

540
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: about dog intelligent that they are a lot smarter than

541
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: they appear to be. When they like run into the

542
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: room for food and then slam into a wall because

543
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: they ran too fast, they seem very dumb. But they

544
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: actually do seem to have a lot of intelligence, especially

545
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: given that they co evolved with us, that it seems

546
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: that they have kind of been selected for some social intelligence,

547
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: so they're not they don't seem to be on the

548
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: same level as like primates, like great apes in terms

549
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: of tool use things like that, but their social intelligence

550
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: is actually relatively high in terms of specifically grass eating.

551
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: It's interesting because like it is true that like, uh,

552
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: they may sometimes just eat grass, not necessarily because they

553
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: have a tummy ache or anything, but just because they

554
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: like the taste. So it's like, it's what's really funny

555
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: in terms of dog behavior is like sometimes they'll do

556
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: something that makes it seem like they have a problem problem, right, Like, all,

557
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: my dog's been eating a lot of grass lady lately,

558
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: maybe he has some kind of stomach problem. And while

559
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 1: that could be true, could also be your dog's bored

560
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: and then realize grass tastes kind of interesting because he's

561
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: sick of his food. There have been cases. Yeah, just

562
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: like so it's it is. I would say that you're

563
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: correct in that cats and dogs maybe have a less

564
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: less finesse when it comes to self medicating compared to

565
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: say a chimpanzee. But you know, I think that they

566
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: do crave certain things when they're feeling, you know, like

567
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: that there's there are ways to sort of diagnose dogs

568
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: with say like an iron deficiency, right if they start

569
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: eating their poop a lot because they're like craving some something,

570
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: so like they may be self medicating, but it may

571
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: not be maybe more just like they have these cravings

572
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: and they want to fulfill that, and so they don't

573
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be as intelligent as an ape to

574
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: do it.

575
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: And listeners, listen here, I don't I don't mean to

576
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: besmirch the intelligence of cats. And I want to those

577
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: letters from dogs because of this episode, please, But you know,

578
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: it is interesting you're kind of describing what in medicine

579
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: we call pika pika pica, like when there's a deficiency

580
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: in something. Sometimes people and children and will be driven

581
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: to eat certain things like ice or whatever because there's

582
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 2: some craving there's iron or something that they're missing.

583
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: And the women too, right sometimes.

584
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean the question of like pregnancy, and

585
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: again I'm not ubi kind, so I can't I have

586
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 2: to preface it with that. But I find that's an

587
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: interesting topic too, Like cravings, how real is that? How

588
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: much of that is a wives tale? And like what

589
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: that might be due to if it's there. I think

590
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: that's a really interesting topic too.

591
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like if you're told to expect that, right, like, oh,

592
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna have cravings, and also you're going through all

593
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: of these huge hormone changes and you're not feeling very good,

594
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you know what, I do like

595
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: ice cream, so maybe I'll have some of that. And

596
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're craving ice cream. It's like, who isn't?

597
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? And pickles are great, Yeah, I want pickles. I

598
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 2: want ice cream.

599
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: And if you're like hungrier right the normal, maybe you're

600
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: like and you also are dealing with nausea. Like when

601
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: I have like a stomach issue, I have cravings for

602
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: food that is safe to me, right, Like, I really

603
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: like a specific kind of sandwich or something, So I'm

604
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: craving that because any other food sounds repulsive because I

605
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: just had the stomach flu. So I feel like that

606
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: may also be a factor. It's so hard to isolate

607
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: those things when there's so much influence of like society

608
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: and then also everything else going on in pregnancy, right, So,

609
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: to do a really bad segue from pregnancy to fruit flies, fruitflies,

610
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: when they're pregnant, they make some interesting decisions as well.

611
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: That was actually a pretty good segue.

612
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: Ye.

613
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: Fruit flies seem to dynamically respond to their environment in

614
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: terms of medicating their offspring. So fruit flies they eat fruit,

615
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: and they can either eat fresh or rotting fruit. And

616
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, of course fruit is on sort of a

617
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: spectrum of freshness. But if they eat the rotting fruit,

618
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: like really really rotting fruit, as the sugars are breaking down,

619
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: its creating a lot of ethanol. So they will get

620
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: a lot of ethanol by eating say a very rotten

621
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: banana versus a more relatively fresh banana. And having too

622
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: much ethanol for fruitfly actually reduces its overall fitness. So

623
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: in general they don't overindulge in the rotting in the

624
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: rotting fruit. However, female fruit flies seem to dynamically make

625
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: a decision of where they will lay their eggs based

626
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: on whether they see a parasitoid wasp or not. So

627
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: this was a study called Fruitflies Medicaid Offspring after seeing

628
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: parasites by schlank at All at the University of Arizona.

629
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: So researchers are always mean to bugs. I mean, it's

630
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: fine because we learn a lot, but you know, they're

631
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: just scaring these poor bugs. So they expose these fruitflies

632
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: to basically they show them a parasitoid wasp, and so

633
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: you know, the little fruitflies scream in terror, we can't

634
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: hear them, and then they decide to lay their eggs

635
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: on rotting fruit rather than fresh fruit. And so just

636
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: to give a rundown of what is a parasitoid wasp,

637
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: So a parasitoid rather than a parasite, is something that

638
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: is both a parasite but then also ends up killing you.

639
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: So like it is it functionally it eats you. So

640
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: like both paris it's both parasite and predator. So a

641
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: parasitoid wasp will lay her eggs in or on its victims,

642
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,959
Speaker 1: and then when those eggs hatch, the larva will eat

643
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: that victim slowly, either from the inside out or from

644
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 1: the surface, just sucking out your juices.

645
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: Just oh, nightmare. Yeah, fuel, it's the worst. When people

646
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: post videos of this, I have to watch it and

647
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: I hate myself for it.

648
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one where it's like a caterpillar exploding with larvae.

649
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: It's not great.

650
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god.

651
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: So these fruit flies obviously don't want this horrifying fate

652
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: for their offspring. Now, when I say want, I always

653
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: have to preface it with like when we're talking about

654
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: like a dog or a chimpanzee, they can have actual

655
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: wants and desires. When we're talking about fruitflies, I think

656
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: that they have a very basic consciousness, but it's hard

657
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: to say that they are reasoning like, uh oh, a parasitoid.

658
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't want my offspring to be victim to this.

659
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: It's something that is much more like an instinct that

660
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: is like a computer program, where it's like an if

661
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: then statement. Right, if I see this, then I do this.

662
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: So when they're shown a parasitoid wasp, they will lay

663
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: their eggs on this rotting fruit, and that high ethanol content.

664
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: If the parasitoid lays its eggs inside of these little

665
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: fruit fly larva, that high ethanol content actually kills off

666
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: the developing larva, and so it kills off that internal

667
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: parasite and so right, And so the trade off being

668
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: that if I don't see a parasitoid wasp, I'm not

669
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: going to lay it on rotting fruit because that high

670
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: ethanol content is actually not great for us, but we

671
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: don't die. But if I see a parasitoid wasp, then

672
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: I will risk that because the trade off is worth

673
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: protecting my offspring from an almost certain fatal case of

674
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: parasitoid wasp larvae, and they're so specific about it. They

675
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: only do this when they see a female parasitoid wasp.

676
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 1: They don't do this when they see a male parasitoid wasp.

677
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: So they really are just kind of keyed for the

678
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: most reasonable, most efficient kind of like, Okay, if I

679
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: see this, this means imminent danger, and therefore I'm going

680
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: to take the risk of laying my eggs on something

681
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: with a high ethanol content.

682
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: So, yes, this is fascinating to me because you know,

683
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: in medicine there are some suggested parallels or at least

684
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: something I find parallel, like, for example, that there is

685
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: a thought that the evolution of sickle cell anemia is

686
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 2: because it would be protective against malaria, that the malaria cell,

687
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: the parasite that causes malaria, is halted in some way

688
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: by sickle cells, so that therefore people who had the

689
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 2: sickle cell trait could be more resistant to the disease.

690
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I found that like fascinating,

691
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: so like it totally makes sense to me that this

692
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: could happen on some very small level, not like obviously purposeful.

693
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: Because of the fruit flies are dumb. I'm not afraid

694
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: to say it. I'm not afraid to say it. Cancel me, fruitflies, fruit.

695
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: Fly furiously trying to type a negative review of the podcast,

696
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: but it can't depress the key because it's too small.

697
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: So no, I mean that is it is a really

698
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: interesting example in humans because it is like sickle cell

699
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: anemia is not ideal, right, it's not like having that

700
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: trait is good in all aspects, right, but specifically in

701
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: terms of preventing negative effects of malaria, it is good.

702
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: So it's a trade off. When you're in a higher

703
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: risk environment, you may want some kind of trade off

704
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: of something and an adaptive trait that's not maybe ideal

705
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: in all circumstances, but in this high risk environment it

706
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: is the best choice, which is you know, I mean

707
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: it isn't It's like it's also probably as a doctor,

708
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: it's the same thing when choosing a treatment, a medical treatment, right,

709
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: there may be some treatments that aren't like you would

710
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: not give to a healthy person because they would be

711
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: bad for a healthy person to take, But for say

712
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: a cancer patient, this is the best possible treatment in

713
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: this circumstance.

714
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely correct, And so yeah.

715
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's funny because it's like it feels

716
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: so intentional because when we do it, like when doctors

717
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: do it, when we do it, it is intentional. But

718
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: for these fruit flies, it is just they have been

719
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: programmed by millions of years of evolution of of you know,

720
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: those that survive end up surviving, and those that don't,

721
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: well that's it, and creating this very complicated almost like

722
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: you know, computer program telling it, guiding it how to

723
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: find the most efficient and most probable way to ensure

724
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 1: that their genetic offspring survive.

725
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very cool. That is very cool.

726
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: Yes, no, I love it. Fruit Flies also, I think

727
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: are really cute. But I think everything is cool. Really yeah,

728
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: I mean you know they got them.

729
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: Do you like they do the thing where they clean

730
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: their face, they're cleaning their heads.

731
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's she's doing it. It's very good. I feel

732
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: like I'm in the room with a fruit fly right now. Yes,

733
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: Or gonna take a quick break, and when we get back,

734
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna ask the question, like our animals good doctors?

735
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: All right, and we're back, and so the question is

736
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: our animals good doctors? Well no, but we are gonna

737
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: answer the more complicated question of like, what can we

738
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: learn from animals in terms of actual medicine, although I

739
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: don't I do not want to besmirch the noble profession

740
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: of therapy dogs.

741
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: They're good.

742
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: They're good dog doctors, you know. Okay, So here here's

743
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: a uh, this is an off the cuve question I

744
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: have for you. There's a bunch of stuff about like

745
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: dogs being able to sniff cancer, and I find that

746
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: very interesting, but it also seems like medically it would

747
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: be kind of uh. I mean, it seems like it'd

748
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 1: be very difficult to use that as a diagnostic technique,

749
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: to use dogs.

750
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: I have not seen any evidence that that's real. I

751
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 2: may have missed it, but I have not. I've heard

752
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 2: of this. I've heard of things like dogs being able

753
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: to trains bila stif out cancer and dogs or cats

754
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: who can detect when someone's about to die in the

755
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: nursing home and they go sit by them and there.

756
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you could I could handwave a lot of

757
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: explanations for that what might be happening and the smells

758
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: that they're picking up on a level that we never

759
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: would be able to understand. But I have a hard time.

760
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: I have a hard time buying that one. Unless I

761
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: see something really reputable come out and explain what's happening,

762
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: or show in testing that it's possible. I would have

763
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: a hard time. My guess is there's probably people who

764
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: have cancer and they're like taking medicine that might have

765
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: might change something, might it might have a smell or

766
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: something like that, and that stands out to the to

767
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: the dog. I can't I can't quite see how you

768
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: would like hold like a cancer in front of a dog, right,

769
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, go go get it, go get it,

770
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 2: and they hunt down in the hup of body.

771
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you shrink the dog real small, maybe you

772
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: could get the dog to hunt down the cancer inside

773
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: the body. Now, I mean there have been studies that

774
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: show dogs can't like you. I mean, dog noses are

775
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful. So you can get them to smell out

776
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: like compounds right that would be found in cancers, and

777
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: to like, you know, give a positive signal to like

778
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: I can smell this, right, and to select the thing

779
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: that has that compound. The problem is with dog behavior,

780
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: like first of all, whether a person who actually has

781
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: cancer would have enough of that that could be smelled.

782
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: And also, uh, when you have like dogs aren't good

783
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: at just like most people won't have that, right. And

784
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: so if you have a dog sitting at you know,

785
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: at the front of a hospital smelling everyone who comes in,

786
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: if they're not getting a positive signal, uh, they're eventually

787
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: gonna stop caring because they're not getting any rewards. So

788
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: it does like the dog behavior is not like a

789
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,959
Speaker 1: dog is not going to be motivated in the same

790
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: way as a blood test, right, because the dog has

791
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: its own motivations. And so to smell like a thousand

792
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: people and it's like, yeah, I don't smell anything. Eventually

793
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: the dog's gonna be like, well, even if I get

794
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: a positive signal, I've lost I've lost the plot here.

795
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, by the time you take that patient,

796
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 2: he smells and they get that patient tested and then

797
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 2: you're like, okay, we got the MRI and it does

798
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: show that there's a mass here. Here's a treat. The

799
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: dog will be like, what's this for?

800
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, Okay, I'm glad we're on the same

801
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: page as saying dogs are not ready to be doctors.

802
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: They're great, they're great at emotional therapy though and things

803
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: like that. But so Yes. One thing that I really

804
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: love about humans is that we will take a look

805
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: at the most venomous, toxic, dangerous animal and go like, huh,

806
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: could we like take that venom that makes us like

807
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: lead out of our eyes and then turn it into

808
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: medicine And we do it and it's it's amazing. So

809
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: gilla monsters, which are sorry, HeLa monsters which are found

810
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: in southwest US, have a potent venom that contains a

811
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: number of peptides and toxins that results in a very

812
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: nasty bite. They would be as venomous as like a rattlesnake,

813
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: except that they don't deliver as much of that venom

814
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: per bite, although they are much more tenacious than a rattlesnake.

815
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: They will bite and hold and it can be very

816
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: difficult to pry them off of you. But yeah, so

817
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: it's typically not lethal, but it's still extremely painful. Uh,

818
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: and it has killed some people. So definitely don't like

819
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: relax Like if well, relax, but relax and drive yourself

820
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: to the hospital or call someone to drive you to

821
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: the hospital. Don't drive yourself to the hospital if you've

822
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: got a gill a monster, heel a monster on your arm.

823
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: What am I saying?

824
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: Get someone to drive, don't bring that hospital.

825
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, don't you know, try to make sure the

826
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: heal monster is not attached to you when you go

827
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: to the hospital. Anyways, the point is the bite is

828
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: bad and you don't want to get it. But the

829
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: venom is very interesting and it has so many compounds

830
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: that in terms of being bitten by it is really

831
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: bad for you. Causes all of these, uh you know,

832
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: a lot of pain, a lot of bleeding, a lot

833
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: of swelling. But because it is these compounds that can

834
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: interfere with things, like you know, interact with yourselves. When

835
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: they examined these, they were able to isolate a specific

836
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: compound that is similar in structure, the g LP one hormone.

837
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: So this it was called a it's called a extending four.

838
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: I feel like this is just Pokemon names. Now.

839
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 2: I can't I can't help you. If you're looking for

840
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 2: me to help you with this, I'm a no one.

841
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: Can no one can help.

842
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: But like so.

843
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: Just it's just imagine a bunch of protein shapes and

844
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: they all have like weird pokemon names, and you're supposed

845
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: to remember them, but it's nobody does. So, Uh, this

846
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: it's it's a compound that is similar enough to this

847
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: GLP one hormone that, among other things, controls blood sugar

848
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 1: levels uh in humans, and so it's actually has use

849
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: in helping to treat type two diabetes, which is amazing

850
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: that you can do. You can like take this venom

851
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: from this reptile that like it's developed. Like imagine being

852
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: a helo monster where it's like I have developed this

853
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: and them over many hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, uh,

854
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: to mess with with you like to to hunt prey

855
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: and to ward off predators or busy bodies like humans.

856
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: And then we're like, oh, yes, please, let's uh, let's

857
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: use that to treat ourselves of our diseases. I mean,

858
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: that's gotta be kind of insulting.

859
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: It's it's I think it's pretty cool. So GLP lukagon

860
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: like peptide is a big part of you know, how

861
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: we are our endocrine system works, and it's broken down

862
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: pretty quickly in the human body when it's made indogenously.

863
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 2: And I'm curious, you know, like you know if the

864
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: function of the GLP like or the glucagon like peptides

865
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: that the helo monster is making how they function in

866
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: a different way. That's fascinating, and I could be like,

867
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you're probably gonna tell me it sounds like

868
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: it could be very useful to humans.

869
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it can be used. This compound

870
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: that has was originally derived from the Heala monster is

871
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: used like in treating type two diabetes, uh to kind

872
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: of help control the the blood sugar regulation after eating,

873
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: because like type I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

874
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: but type two diabetes, one of the main issues is

875
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: that the you know, like the ability to regulate blood sugar,

876
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: especially after a meal no longer like there's almost this

877
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: resistance right to insulin such that you can no longer regulate,

878
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: so you can have these big spikes or big drops

879
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: in blood sugar that can be dangerous.

880
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It's a it's a big part of

881
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: the diabetes process. And I did not know that the

882
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: WHI which medicine? Do you know that the brand name

883
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 2: of the medicine that was derived from the Healo monster

884
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: any chance, because I don't know. I don't know this story.

885
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: I think that's incredible.

886
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: Let's see, I'm looking at it too. I'm also I'm

887
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: googling it. Medicine drug eccentotide.

888
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: I don't know it, but I'm also not indocrinologists, so

889
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 2: I guess that's not surprising.

890
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 1: Let me just make sure if we're actually is accnotide

891
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: like how because like exenatide.

892
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: Let me look at it up here.

893
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: I thought it was actually you cenotype exxenotide. Yeah, it

894
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: looks like it's uh, looks like it is. It has

895
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: been approved. It was approved for medical use in the

896
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: US in two thousand and five.

897
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: How do you spell it?

898
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: E X E N A T I D E.

899
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh. Look, I'm trying to see if they have

900
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 2: it in my so, you know, we have like our

901
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: medical resources that we go to to look at medications.

902
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if they have it. Like the story of it,

903
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 2: I think that's so fascinating.

904
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a I mean I used to work at

905
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: a It was like a scientific science communication company that

906
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: did stuff for pharmaceutical companies, and I do remember having

907
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: to carefully look up pictures of HeLa monsters for some

908
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: kind of presentation, So perhaps that's what it was. Yeah,

909
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: there was a It's sold under the brand named Baieta,

910
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: among others.

911
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, not why I will I have to say that,

912
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, as a I'm a GI doctor. As a

913
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: GI doctor and GI and liver, I don't treat diabetes,

914
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: and I think that the guys who do the end

915
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 2: of prenologists, who really delve into the details of it

916
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: like this, I think it's really fascinating, like hormonal stuff

917
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: that's over my head. But I think this is just

918
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 2: this is this is a fun example of like turning

919
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: something that someone probably thought was silly research into something

920
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: incredibly useful for humans. Ye, Like at some point someone

921
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: was doing research on healo monsters and someone was saying,

922
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 2: why are you wasting our government time and money, our

923
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: taxpayer time and money on this thing? And look how

924
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: it's helped in a very significant way. I assume I

925
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: don't use the medication, but I assume it's a pretty

926
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 2: significant benefit to humans.

927
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's at least another sort of like tool in

928
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: our arsenal tool to treat it. Yeah, exactly, And I

929
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: mean it is. And this is a story that seems

930
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: to be repeated, especially for like it's seems like the

931
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: nastier the toxin is, like the more intriguing it can

932
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 1: be in terms of like finding things that can actually

933
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: be useful. I am not saying you should let yourself

934
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: get bitten by any of these things. You will at

935
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: worst die and at least be an incredible pain. So

936
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: this is not how you are treated by this. They

937
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: have to isolate the compound that is actually responsible for

938
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: the good stuff and on all the bad things, like

939
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: you know, coagulation that's happening inside your body that's not good.

940
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, so things like snake venom that can be

941
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: really dangerous in nature like that, because like snake venom

942
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: can contain both like anticoagulants and coagulants at the same

943
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: time sometimes so it can like make you cause clotting,

944
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: but also like internal bleeding, it can like cause dangerous

945
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: drops in blood pressure.

946
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

947
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: Researchers can isolate and synthesize these compounds and use them

948
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: to actually treat either blood pressure conditions or blood clotting

949
00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: issues in humans, or heart related conditions or prevent hearted tacks.

950
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's amazing because this thing that

951
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: like if one of these snakes bites you, it could

952
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: cause like a heart attack or dangerous clots. But then

953
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: you isolate these compounds, you synthesize them, and then you

954
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: can create a drug that can actually protect you. It's amazing.

955
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, you know, the bigger the effect it

956
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: has negatively, the more thought there is that there are

957
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: such active components within it that could be teased apart

958
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: and looked at that could be useful.

959
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: That is yeah exactly, I know. But we like to

960
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: see the silver lining in the deadly toxin the full

961
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: kind of people exactly. One of my favorite examples is

962
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: cone snails. Cone snails are these beautiful mollusks that they

963
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: have these really pretty shells. Never pick one of them up.

964
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: Just you can look up images of cone snails. They're

965
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: they're quite nice and a lot of like beach comerce

966
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: will sometimes pick one up and they lovely. But they

967
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: have this harpoon that they shoot out, and it can

968
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: be deadly in humans and at the very least incredibly painful,

969
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: and it is meant to paralyze prey. But the thing

970
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: that's interesting and kind of an oxymoron with this is

971
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: while all this can be incredibly painful, it can also

972
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: be numbing. And researchers looked into these specific com compounds

973
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: in this. They call it conotoxin, which is, you know,

974
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: the nose a little on the nose, but it's you

975
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: don't want it on the nose though, Uh so it

976
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,919
Speaker 1: can actually because they they're there. The method of action

977
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: is by interfering with receptors on nerves like nerve cells

978
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: that can actually be used as an intense pain relieving drug.

979
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because it's a specific drug called I

980
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: think zacona tide. Again, not very original name. Yeah, but

981
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: it's but it's like, uh, it can only it's not

982
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: like a pill you take it. It can only be

983
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: I think like through a spinal a spinal dripper. It's

984
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: not it's not like super convenient, but it's like, if

985
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: you have like severe pain that is not responding to

986
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: other treatments, like chronic pain that's not responding to other treatments,

987
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: this is a possible treatment. And it's from this thing

988
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: that like is just horrifying and causes horrifying injuries if

989
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: you get struck by one in the wild.

990
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: That is fascinating. I just looked it up. The cone

991
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: sale venom peptide ultimately ultimately became pre alt, so I

992
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: guess that's the brand name of it. I don't know

993
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: what the generic is, but yeah, that's so cool. Yeah,

994
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 2: and this cone I'm looking, I'm looking at a picture

995
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: of it. It looks like the kind you would see

996
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: on a beach though anywhere. That's that's a little scary.

997
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: It's a little scary.

998
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: I mean they warned me about picking up snails.

999
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so cone snails I think generally are found. Yeah,

1000
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: it's like the western Indo Pacific region. Yeah, if you

1001
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: see a really cool shell, maybe hesitate before picking it up,

1002
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: like you can. I think if you look up images

1003
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: of cone shells, it's a specific conical shape that they

1004
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: have to them that you can know to avoid, like

1005
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: if it's a clamshell, right, Like, that's okay?

1006
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: Can I can I bring up one more interesting fact

1007
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: about this? So the name pre alt b r I

1008
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 2: ALT is the name of the medication, and they named

1009
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 2: it that way because it's short for primary alternative to morphine. Interesting,

1010
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: they were very ambitious about that.

1011
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how because it doesn't

1012
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: seem like this is super widely used. It seems like

1013
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: it's used in specific cases where someone has, like in

1014
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: track pull, chronic pain and they don't want to use morphine.

1015
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: So and it's you know, it's also not a super

1016
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: convenient method of delivery, so but still it's still really

1017
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: neat that It's like, this is this thing that is

1018
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: designed to kill prey and inflict pain upon threats, and

1019
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: yet we're like, yeah, but what if we put that

1020
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: in our spines?

1021
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, humans rock.

1022
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. A couple of honorary mentions before we end the

1023
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: show is a shark skin which has is this very

1024
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: rough texture on this microscopic scale, which inhibits the growth

1025
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: of bacteria. And so there's this idea of creating artificial

1026
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: shark skin in hospital settings to discourage the growth of

1027
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: bacteria on surfaces. This is not a reality yet, but

1028
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: I am definitely looking forward to just like a shark

1029
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: themed hospital with everything made out of shark. Not real sharks,

1030
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: because we love the sharks and we don't want to hurt,

1031
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 1: but artificial shark skin.

1032
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 2: This is how a spider man villain is created.

1033
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: Just so you know, Doctor. Also, mosquito proboscises are so

1034
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: good at inserting into skin that is painless because they

1035
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: don't want to alert you to their presence that researchers

1036
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: have been looking into the design of their their proboscis

1037
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: is and they actually have an interesting design where it's

1038
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: like these two sharp points that like that are like twins,

1039
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: and then they kind of like do this like stepping

1040
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: motion down into the skin, and that somehow does it

1041
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: in a way that is very precise and less destructive

1042
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: because they don't want to cut these mosquitos. They don't

1043
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: want to hurt you because then you swat at them,

1044
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: so they want it to be painless, and having it

1045
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: be painless actually causes less damage, and then that's how

1046
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 1: they will suck blood. And so researchers are currently trying

1047
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: to figure out can we make really really precise syringes

1048
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: with these that could like limit damage, right, like in

1049
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: some kind of like I don't know because I'm not

1050
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: a doctor, but some kind of situation where you'd want

1051
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: a very precise injection or to make syringes less painful.

1052
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for nothing else, Like intramuscular injections, that'd

1053
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 2: be great. Yeah, you know, like an I AM injection

1054
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 2: of something. You know how well that would hold up

1055
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 2: being injected into a blood vessel. That might be a

1056
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: real challenge. Yeah, but I don't see any It seems

1057
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: very feasible that you could create a painless way to deliver,

1058
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: like a vaccine or a shot or something like that.

1059
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: Finally somewhere to apply my project of creating giant mutated mosquitoes.

1060
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to get a government grant for

1061
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: it because they're like, why would we want that?

1062
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 2: And here's why, so short sighted of them.

1063
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 1: Well, before we go, I, if you have time, I'd

1064
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: like to play a quick game called the Mystery Animal

1065
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: Sound Game, where I play a mystery animal sound and you,

1066
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: the guests, and you the audience, try to guess who

1067
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: is making that sound.

1068
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know the show. I'm ready for you. I

1069
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 2: knew this was coming, so I prepared and I've listened

1070
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: to all the animals.

1071
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: You've listened to every You've listened to every That's well.

1072
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 2: I have a I have a book with my kid.

1073
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,919
Speaker 2: I play a lot where my kids and I think

1074
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 2: like the.

1075
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: Dog goes bark, bark, quiz, how goes what? Yeah? That's good.

1076
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: That's very good. All right, So the hint for this

1077
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: one is all well that ends well, okay, So that

1078
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: did you hear that?

1079
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 2: That was terrifying?

1080
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1081
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: I did hear it.

1082
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty intense. It does sound uh like the coming

1083
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 1: of the Demon Apocalypse. But you got any guesses for

1084
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: who is making this sound?

1085
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: Okay? I was gonna say some sort of ape. The

1086
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 2: fact that you made the Shakespeare reference though, I'm trying

1087
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: to think, like, is there a Shakespearean this is.

1088
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: Wait, this is too smart for this. You're being too

1089
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: smart for me.

1090
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say, macaw.

1091
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: That is a great guess because you are in the

1092
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: right general sort of order of things. This is a

1093
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 1: barn owl. See, you were going for like a Shakespeare

1094
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: thing far off. Yeah, I was just going all owls,

1095
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,439
Speaker 1: Well that ends well, because owls, it's you're mistake. Yeah,

1096
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: You're mistake was assuming that this was a smart show.

1097
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 2: I don't think maccaw had anything to do with Shakespeare,

1098
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 2: so I don't. I don't know where I got that from.

1099
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean I think in in what Taming of the

1100
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: Macaw that was that was one of them.

1101
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: I remember that.

1102
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: So it is a barn owl. So these guys are

1103
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: I think there's some of the more beautiful looking elegant owls.

1104
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: For being so elegant looking, they have this horrifying screeching call.

1105
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: It does sound like they are trying to summon satan

1106
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: to their evil cause. But instead it's actually just a

1107
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: sweet call that they're making. The male screech who invite

1108
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: females to his nest, and females use it to recrest

1109
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: food from their male partners, So it is a not

1110
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: an aggressive thing necessarily.

1111
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 2: So the is that not a thing? So those are yeah, no, that's.

1112
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: Now calls just different species of owls. You'll hear that

1113
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: from like bar owls to Okay, I know that sounds similar,

1114
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: but there's barn owls and there's bar owls. That's not confusing,

1115
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, a lot of owl species will have

1116
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: the who the hooting, but the barnew has this awful screech,

1117
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: which honestly though with the female barnow screeching for her

1118
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: mate to give her food, like, I really relate to that,

1119
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: Like as soon as I hear crinkling in the kitchen,

1120
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: like I'm in there just screeching at the top of

1121
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: my lungs for my husband to share whatever it is

1122
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: with me. So onto this week's mystery animal sound. The

1123
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: hint is this, it makes this sound with its body

1124
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 1: as it moves under your feet. Okay, so did you

1125
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: hear that like gurgling?

1126
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 2: Sound I did. I'm gonna suit I guess, Yeah, you

1127
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 2: can guess. That's the sound of a male graboid from

1128
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: the Build series Tremors.

1129
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: That is so close it's not correct, But you are,

1130
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: you are on the right track. I You'll find out

1131
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: what the answer to this question is. I'm next episode

1132
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: of Freaky Feature. Is it a graboid? Are Graboid's real?

1133
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: Perhaps I'm not saying no, Anything's possible. Well, stay tuned,

1134
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: Stay tuned well, Doctor keave Hoda, thank you so much

1135
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: for joining me today. Where can people find you?

1136
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me? This is really fun. I

1137
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 2: really appreciate those those I learned a ton, so thank

1138
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 2: you so much. They can find me on my podcast.

1139
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: Where is all the podcast? And places will have it?

1140
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 2: Should have it? They don't let me know? I will.

1141
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: I will get it there for you. It is called

1142
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 2: the House of Pod. It is a Emmer adjacent medical

1143
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 2: podcast when we cover public health topics and where they

1144
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: intersect with the news and pop culture. And I know

1145
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 2: you might not think you like a medical show, but

1146
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 2: it's not that medical and it's fun. So give it

1147
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 2: a shot and you can follow me anywhere you do

1148
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 2: your social media. I'm still on Twitter, brave Man, be there.

1149
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't. Yeah, it's a whole thing, but I

1150
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 2: am there, so you can find me there, and thank

1151
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: you again, thanks so much. This is a blast.

1152
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and I highly recommend the podcast. I love

1153
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,879
Speaker 1: this kind of podcast because, like, I'm very interested in medicine,

1154
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: and yet I am too squeamish and lazy to have

1155
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: ever really gotten into medicine. So I but I do

1156
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 1: love to listen and to read about it, and so

1157
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a really accessible way if you're like,

1158
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: if it's like your hobby, right, I'm not saying you

1159
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: should go and do surgery as your hobby, but listening

1160
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: to medical podcasts as a hobby I think is very

1161
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: healthy and.

1162
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,719
Speaker 2: We will not get you sued, very unlikely.

1163
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you guys so much for listening. If you're

1164
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:54,759
Speaker 1: enjoying the show and you leave a rating and review,

1165
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: it actually helps me. And I read every single one

1166
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: of them. I print them all out and I hand

1167
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: them out like flyers to people to be like, hey, look,

1168
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 1: people like me. This is evidence right here. And thanks

1169
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: to the Space Classics for their super awesome song Exo Lumina.

1170
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like

1171
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 1: the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1172
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 1: or Hey Guess what where if you listen to your

1173
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: favorite shows. I'm not sure, mother, I can't tell you

1174
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: what to do. I can't tell you how to live

1175
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: your life. That's a you decision, baby. The next Wednesday,