1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: She burst into the world in nineteen seventy six. She's 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: at what. She's out on dates and she don't like politics. 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: From Mama and urban to with feminist friends. She's fighting 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: all the stands it with chocolate and head. Kathy, She's 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: fighting back to stress with success. Let's cut her some slack, oh, Kathy, Kathy, Cathy, 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: She's gotta like go in all shame. An idea for 7 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: a Kathy TV show had been in place since the 8 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: early eighties and a piece from the Tennessee in two. 9 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: The proposed version of the show would have been live 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: action with only animated titles, which honestly sounds tight. What's 11 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: also very a frint from the pitch and the actual 12 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: product that came out five years later is the hook 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: of the show. According to John McMahon of producing partner 14 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: Johnny Carson Productions, Kathy would be quote unquote the Mary 15 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Tyler Moore of the eighties. When the fully animated specials 16 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: aired five years later, the reality was a bit different. 17 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: Kathy of these specials is not particularly empowered, but Kathy 18 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: guys White remained deeply involved in the creative throughout all 19 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: three specials. She wrote, an executive produced, Kathy, Kathy's Last Resort, 20 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: and Kathy's Valentine, which were all built off storylines that 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: had previously appeared in the comic. As Kathy tells it, 22 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: she had a lot of creative control in this process, 23 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: but the high level decisions were made by CBS executives 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: and they played it very safe. And by safe I 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: mean Irvings and all of them. The Kathy character was 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: voiced by actor Kathleen will Hoyt why not best as 27 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: the voice of Pepperran. Although I'm probably millennializing myself there, 28 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: here's what she sounds like. My name is Cathy. I 29 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: spend last Saturday night celebrating my Employee of the Year 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: nomination with a box of Oreo cookies. The first special, 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: titled Kathy, aired on CPS in May. It follows Kathy 32 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: as she's set to receive an award at work and 33 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: is putting in a lot of overtime. Irving says that 34 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: he isn't going to her awards ceremony, which her friends, family, 35 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: and co workers disapprove of. Kathy tries to make the 36 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: best of it, saying that she's an independent woman, but 37 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: she's really disappointed. She then surprises Irving at his apartment 38 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: only to find him cheating on her. After five years 39 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: in a relationship, and no, he still can't say I 40 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: love you. I cannot believe it. Mom. Does a man 41 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: have to say he cared for me in exactly your 42 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: words or doesn't count? We have five solid years of 43 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: avoiding any kind of actual burble commitment with each other. Mom? 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: Did a tressfertors liked to account for nothing? Well, you 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: are wrong, Mom, you are wrong. Wrong, I hated. Kathy 46 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: is completely humiliated and she dumps him. She goes on 47 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: a date with another guy to try to bounce back, 48 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: but he sucks. On the night of her award, Cathy 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: decides to show up in her robe and rollers still 50 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: upset that Irving hasn't called her. Eventually, Irving does call 51 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: and Cathy takes him back. Immediately they make up and 52 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: it ends like this. I'm trying to learn not to 53 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: be so moto, and I'm going to try to learn 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: that even employees of the Year have to make time 55 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: for a date if they want a relationship. And I'm 56 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: going to try to not run out and meet someone 57 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: else every time you get busy. Yeah, yeah, you wait, 58 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: if you went out trying to meet other people. When 59 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: did you do that better? Stay on your toes, Irving. 60 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: There are lots of single men in this town. It's 61 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: an amazing time to be single, all right. We're all 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: free to be anything, but under hundred new pressures to 63 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: be everything. We work for deeper, more meaningful relationships and 64 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: then try to make them work in the ten three 65 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: minutes we have a day. It's always been easier to 66 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: leave a relationship with your single I guess in the 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: eighties it's just a little more challenging to stay in Irving. 68 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: Very much takes center stage in these specials in a 69 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: way that puts him firmly at the center of Kathy Cannon, 70 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: even though there's whole years in the comic strip where 71 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: he doesn't appear at all. But this special holds a 72 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: special place in Kathy guys White's career. She won a 73 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: goddamn Emmy for it. Here's her speech brought our first 74 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: time any winners. I'd like to say a special thanks 75 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: to my sisters Marianne and Mickey, who are not only 76 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: my best editors, but the whole foundation of my sense 77 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: of humor. When I started the comic strip, Kathy, I 78 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: was sure that I was the only woman in the 79 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: world who came home from a day in my brilliant 80 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: career and stood in the kitchen squirting ready whipped whip 81 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: topping directly into my mouth. I was sure that I 82 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: was the only professional, enlightened, professional business person who balanced 83 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: my checkbook by switching banks and starting all over every 84 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: six months, or or who coped with relationship problems by 85 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: eating a cheesecake. I'm first grateful to my parents, not 86 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: only for encouraging me to believe that I was not 87 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: the only one, but for forcing me to send the 88 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: humiliating moments of my own life to Universal Press Syndicate 89 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: for publication. The second special, Cathy's last resort, also revolves 90 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: around Irving's inability to tell Kathy that he loves her, 91 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: but this time on vacation. Want to help me? You 92 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: always act like a lunatic after you've been to the shrink. 93 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: Just a second, take a muption risk of kay, I 94 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: did that humiliate itself with erotic suggestion. I did that 95 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: just just a sect maintain romantic mood. I don't love 96 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: how you're strong job moves when you call me a lunatic. 97 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: The final special is Kathy's Valentine from and is mostly 98 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: a long protracted fight between Kathy and Irving. Again, Kathy 99 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: isn't therapy in this special, and she's trying to make 100 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: the relationship work, but Irving thinks therapy is ridiculous and 101 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: complaints because he's himself. Forget it, Kathy, Okay, I am 102 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: sick of being the perfect guy, just to get yelled at. 103 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: They break up twice over the course of the episode, 104 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: but are somehow back together by the end. Oh my god, 105 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: I hate Irving so much. Uh, Chid to get things 106 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, rekindled before Valentine. For heaven's sake. Man has 107 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: nothing to do with what you wear, what you have 108 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: in the cupboard. These TV specials were the runway up 109 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: to the peak of the comics presence in merchandizing and 110 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: public recognition in the early to mid nine nineties. However, 111 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: looking back on these TV specials now, Cathy doesn't necessarily 112 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: stand by the content. Yeah. I banned them from being 113 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: made available for purchase. There was just like, you know, 114 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: there's like everything and it's just so you know, dated. 115 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: So they That was very exciting to work on those. 116 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: Um I wanted to write the scripts. Of course, that 117 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: was a giant argument because I wasn't a TV writer, 118 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: so that was a huge argument. But I wanted to 119 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: write the script. So I did write the first one. 120 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: It you know, got altered it by the network, but 121 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, it was basically it was basically 122 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: my story and mine was my original versions or like 123 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: pack dialogue, because I was finally liberated from the four 124 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: boxes so I could tell us, you know, I could 125 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: tell a real story, you know, with real dialogue. And 126 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: I wanted him. I wanted the characters to you know, 127 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: to talk fashion, for it to be like more that 128 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: banter that you would see on TV now. And so 129 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: that was that was rejected because, um, because it was 130 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: so outside of the kind of the timing that that 131 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: that team all everything was, everything was brought up in 132 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: the eighties and I kind of like everything the decade 133 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: before you were born. Everything was happening, Jamie. I missed, 134 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: you missed everything. It always happening. Then I'm not going 135 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: to tell you about it because it was done. Uh yeah, 136 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: So we pursued a live action a few times. Who 137 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: did you pictures had as Cathy? Well, that was always 138 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: kind of a problem when I was I don't think 139 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: anybody could ever quite figured that out. You know, it 140 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: got it got to the point where somebody else wrote 141 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: scripts that I hated. Then I wrote scripts that they hated, 142 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: and then we got you know, it went a little 143 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: ways down the road a few times, and then ultimately 144 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: that didn't happen. The late eighties continued to bring success 145 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: for the whole Guy Swite family and Guy S. White. 146 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Cathy's mom actually released a book called Motherly Advice from 147 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: Cathy's Mom in se and, knowing her education and pedigree 148 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: as a writer, I thought this was very cool. Cathy 149 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: also collaborated with her younger sister, Mickey Guy Swhite on 150 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: a book In with Mickey writing and Cathy illustrating. All 151 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: of the Guys White women's styles gel very close with Kathy's. 152 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: Nearly all of this work is built around the day 153 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: to day anxieties of women from different generations. Brought Kathy's 154 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: biggest flare up controversy wise, when the comics showed Andrea 155 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: campaigning extensively for Michael Ducacus, who was running for president 156 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: in eight against George Bush Sr. The blowback was so 157 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: severe that Kathy eased off explicitly political references for the 158 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: next two decades. I think I was always pretty cautious 159 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: about being controversial, you know that when I'm sure you 160 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: wrote a book. When I did the strips for Andrew 161 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: was actively campaigning for Ducacus, and I'm I'm sure they 162 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: did not go over wall um with a lot of 163 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: editors and people. They just weren't expecting that one sided 164 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: opinion from me um And they said, at the time, 165 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: you know this is not you know, it was not 166 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: political strip. And if world we'd run it on the 167 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: editorial page. In my now my stand at that time 168 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: was it, you know, a written I wrote was sort 169 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: of political onliness. And in the early nineties, Kathy Mania 170 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: reached its peak. While there weren't any more TV specials, 171 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: the merchandizing craze exploded. There's actually video footage of my 172 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: mom at this work Christmas party in showing off her 173 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: cubicle being like, I'm so happy before I had kids, 174 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: and what is behind her? Yes, it is a Kathy 175 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: comic strip proudly pinned to her divider wall and a 176 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: Detroit Free Press poll from Kathy was ranked the fourth 177 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: favorite comic by women in the fifth least favorite comic 178 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: by men. Classically polarizing. Kathy guys White remained the CEO 179 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: of her own company while continuing to turn out comics 180 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: week by week, and in had a wild ear personally 181 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: and professionally. She won the rub In A Ward, the 182 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: prestigious National Cartoonist Society honor, and was only the second 183 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: woman to have ever done so in the ceremonies forty 184 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: plus year history. In her personal life, after decades of 185 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: living as a single woman and putting her career front 186 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: and center, at forty one, Cathy adopted her daughter, Ivy 187 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: and raised her as a single parent. You know, in 188 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: the nineties, when the licensing had gotten really big and 189 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: we were just built this this whole other office just 190 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: got designed for us to move into and the comic 191 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: strip was doing great. That's and I had, i mean 192 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: six waking hours six six seconds you know per day 193 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: where I wasn't just completely overwhelmed. That's when it occurred 194 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: to me that I should adopt a baby. So that 195 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: that's because why not, you know, It's just that I look, 196 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm like the I'm like the luckiest person on earth 197 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: that I've had opportunities that I've had, and I've had 198 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 1: the chances I've had to make all the mistakes I 199 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: did make, and that that I was. I was given 200 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: this amazing opportunity for self expression at a time there 201 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: weren't other women doing that. And then out of the 202 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: all of it that I was a complete workaholic, born 203 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: into a generation that like we were instructed to not 204 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,239 Speaker 1: have children, you know, we were going into the workforce. 205 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: That was the mindset. You know, it wasn't It wasn't 206 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: at all what it is now, which is you know, 207 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: going into adulthood knowing that you could combine motherhood with working. 208 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: It was the opposite of that. It was you were 209 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,719 Speaker 1: choosing one path or the other. You were going to 210 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: be a wife and mother or you're going to be 211 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: a single working person. Period. That was it. And so 212 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: I was obedient to that to the max, you know, 213 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: until um, until I hit um forty and you know 214 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: it was going to like steal somebody's baby, I mean, 215 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: my mother, you know something. I had to be a mother. 216 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: So but but that I somehow that I was. Among 217 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: my blessings were that I was able to have this 218 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: great career. I was able to have the possible the 219 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: opportunity to make all the mistakes that I did and 220 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: I still kept having a great career, and that I 221 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: was able to have the blessing of motherhood like right 222 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of that, and that that worked. It's 223 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: just like very, very lucky person. This is one of 224 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: the only times that Cathy took some time off and 225 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: sent the comic into repeats to spend time with her newborn. 226 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: According to The New York Daily News writer David Hinckley, 227 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: she sent out a letter personally apologizing for taking time off. 228 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: In a column from he writes, this what did take 229 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: two thirds of a page was her apology. I'm really 230 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: sorry to be doing this, she said. It's my own fault. 231 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: I can't get ahead like a should, but I just 232 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: don't have any choice now that the adoption is so near. 233 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: I offer my deepest thanks, she writes, if you can 234 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: give this extra support to me right now, he continues, Now, 235 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: two things come to mind. First, this is exactly what 236 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: Guy's wife's Kathy character would do exactly. Second, if this 237 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: were a mail cartoonist, any mail this letter would not exist. 238 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: Newspapers would only get letter number one saying this artist 239 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: was taking time off. He wants it, he deserves it. 240 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: See you in July and He's right. There was a 241 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: long tradition of male comic writers taking time off, many 242 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: of them Kathy's contemporaries Gary Trudeau of Doonesbury, Gary Larson 243 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: of The Far Side, Bill Waterson of Calvin and Hobbes, 244 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: and she wasn't even completely taking time off. She was 245 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: still doing Sunday comic strips. By the ninety nineties, Kathy's 246 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: personal life had begun to stray from the storylines of 247 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: her comic pretty significantly, as Kathy the artist headed into 248 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: motherhood and later marriage, while remaining the owner of her 249 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: own business. Her character continued to navigate single doom and 250 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: worked for the same company she started at in the 251 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. Kathy writes this, I really have devoted myself 252 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: to the comic strip a long time. I want my 253 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: own identity. I need that more than I did in 254 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: the beginning. I need to feel like I had my 255 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: own life. Mind you, there are certain traits that we 256 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: certainly share, and we always will. At the height of 257 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: the comics popularity, Cathy's life was also changing. She met 258 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: her now ex husband, the screenwriter Christopher Wilkinson, at a 259 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: daycare group where he was bringing his son and Kathy 260 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: was bringing her daughter. Wilkinson wrote, Nixon, if you saw that, 261 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: I didn't, but they're divorced, so I don't have to. 262 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: The two got married, and Kathy lived with her daughter, stepson, 263 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: and husband while continuing to run the company and make 264 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: the comic. The licensing business continued to thrive, including a 265 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: Memory Morble campaign for weight Watchers featuring both Kathy and Irving, 266 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: using illustrations that referenced a storyline from the comic where 267 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: the two of them began to go to the gym 268 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: together to get in shape and lose weight. The late 269 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: nineties brought a cookbook that Kathy collaborated on with chef 270 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Barbara Albright called Girl Food. I have this cookbook because 271 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: I'm a girl and I need food, and it features 272 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: recipe titles like I really really really deserve a raise, 273 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: buttermilk doughnuts and never the same size, low calorie coleslaw. 274 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: We'll be talking about this book later and it is 275 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: one of the last major merchandizing efforts of the comic 276 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: strip because the merchandise and company did not last for 277 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: the entire duration of the comic, closing its doors by 278 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: the early two thousands. During this period, of time, Kathy 279 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: was more recognizable and making more money than ever, but 280 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: she says that the compounded roles of CEO, artist, wife 281 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: and mom result did in the cheapening of her brand 282 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: for a period of time. So the doing the actual 283 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: comic strip that um got squashed into shorter and shorter 284 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: amount of time. Again, when I look back at life 285 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: now and I go, I wish, I wish I had 286 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: had this perspective now, And it is my wisdom now 287 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: of oh, this is what I was doing that was 288 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: kind of unique and good, was doing the comic strip 289 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: and some maybe greeting cards. Those I could have achieved 290 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: in my own and my own little office without without 291 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: all the hubbub. But I also could have maybe taken 292 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: some time to better reflect on what I was doing 293 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: and the opportunity I was given to have this very 294 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: unique voice for women in the newspaper where there was 295 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: nothing else happening for women in the paper. But you know, 296 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: I kind of kind of wish that I had h M. 297 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: I wish I had not been so busy. At the 298 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: turn of the century, Cathy was syndicated in over fifteen 299 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: hundred newspapers and had amassed about seventy million readers. By 300 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, Kathy the Artist had been married 301 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: long enough that she was ready for her fictional character 302 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: to join her. There something that many people felt betrayed 303 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: by after the character was famously single for almost thirty 304 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: years at that point. And while yes, it's pretty petty 305 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: to be mad about the marital status of a cartoon character, 306 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: Kathy guys White had explicitly promised many times to never 307 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: have the character get married. This is the woman who 308 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: said this to the Detroit Free Press in about her 309 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: own singleness. My syndicate threatens that if I ever get 310 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: close to marriage, they'll lock me up. In seven Cathy 311 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: says this, I know how abandoned I feel when one 312 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: of my friends gets married. I won't let Kathy do 313 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: that to her readers. Here's what she says about that decision. Now, 314 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: was it always going to be irving? I mean he 315 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: was obviously, he was like such a presence over the years, 316 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: but he would disappear and then he would come back 317 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: a couple of years later, and you know what, what 318 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: what made you land on like? No, it is irving? 319 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: I don't know know I'm married the wrong guy too, 320 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: So what can I say. I never had time to 321 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: step back from this strip and like plan it out, 322 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: like you know, like I mentioned that, like one would 323 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: think it would be smart to do. I felt that 324 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: when they got married they had both grown and changed, 325 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: and they really had. I mean, he was he was 326 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: in the beginning, he was the definition of a Chaubno's pig, 327 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: and he wasn't when they got married. He was. He 328 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: was a man trying to who was also vulnerable, who 329 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: was trying to be in a relationship. He loved Kathy, 330 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: and um, I know it was okay. And as it 331 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: turns out, Kathy the character's marriage outlasted the real life 332 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: Kathy's marriage that had motivated it. Kathy and her husband 333 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: split in two thousand and eight, at which point she 334 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: reclaimed her space by hanging up a neon Ax sign 335 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: in the house. Two years later, she decided to end 336 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: the Kathy comic in newspapers in October two thousand and 337 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: ten on her own terms. You may remember that Kathy 338 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: the character announces that she's pregnant in the final comic strip, 339 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: maybe four or five months or six months before I 340 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: and before the strip ended, I talked to the syndicate 341 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: about you know the fact that I needed to end 342 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: it so um. So, on one hand, you would think 343 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: that I had lots of time to plan how it 344 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: would end. On the other hand, I still was running 345 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: in front of the train, you know, ever a week 346 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: trying to do them. And then I was also trying 347 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: to feel all of the stuff about the strip ending. 348 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: So you know, it was it wasn't again as usual, 349 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: like I had two months to sit back and go, Okay, 350 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: how how is this all going to wrap up? I 351 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: knew that when I ended this trip that I wanted to, um, 352 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to revisit all the characters a bit, 353 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: and I knew that I wanted I knew that I 354 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: wanted to end the strip with Kathy expecting a baby girl, 355 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: so that in readers fantasies, at least they could imagine 356 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: that the circle of life, the circle of mother daughter aggravation, 357 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: was going forth into the future. The circle of ac continues. Yeah, 358 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: and it's worth noting that Kathy Guiswide's choice to end 359 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: a spectacularly successful comic strip in this way was and 360 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: is extremely unusual. More often than not, comics that are 361 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: on the page for this long thirty four years, in 362 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: Cathy's case, go into syndication. That basically means that old 363 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: strips from past years will continue to run in the 364 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: paper to keep artists relevant and to continue to make 365 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: them money. Cathy elected not to do this, leaving a 366 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: lot of money on the table in the process. When 367 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: doing interviews towards the end of the comics run, she 368 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: said this to The Washington Post. I feel like I 369 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: have always been and continued to be humbled to have 370 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: that space on the page. I feel like I need 371 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: to earn it every day to do my best news stuff. Now. 372 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: I love the idea of releasing my space to another 373 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: cartoonist who can have a chance in the papers. It 374 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't seem right to do reruns. The comic strip ending 375 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: also revitalized interest in Kathy for those who had fallen 376 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: out of the habit of reading the comic or who 377 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: no longer read physical newspapers as news increasingly migrated online, 378 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: and with that interest came a lot of those same 379 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: old criticism and jokes that popped up via the hashtag 380 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: ways Kathy should end tag taking off on Twitter in 381 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: two thousand ten, and some of them are pretty funny 382 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: and an orgy of blood violence Garfield devoured her whole, 383 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: but most of them were based on the caricature like 384 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: stereotypes that had calcified around Kathy Guy's wife's work over 385 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: the past couple of decades. Overhead shot of her laying 386 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: face down in an empty room next to the half 387 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: eaten lean cuisine that she choked to death on hashtag 388 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: ways Kathy should end. Hoarding experts arrived too late to 389 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: find Kathy flattened under a heap of diet aids, cats, 390 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: and dating books. Hashtag ways Kathy should end. The tone 391 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: of this criticism does not change much at all between 392 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and the nine nineties, and it affected 393 00:24:49,359 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: Kathy Guy's White quite a bit. She writes about how 394 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: the criticism affected her in her essay collection Fifty Things 395 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: That Aren't My Fault. This comes in the middle of 396 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: the titular essay where guys White discusses and defends her 397 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: choice to talk about the issues that affected her in 398 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: her comic strip. I had the amazing platform of an 399 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: internationally syndicated comic strip, which some people said I should 400 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: have used to voice triumphant stories of unwavering feminism, but 401 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: which I instead used to voice the insecurities, relationship frustrations, mother, daughter, angst, 402 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: career grief, and food blunders under which so many of 403 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: our triumphant dreams get squashed. Some people thought my work 404 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: reinforced the negative stereotype of women being obsessed with shopping, weight, 405 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: and love. But it wasn't my fault that we still 406 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: live in a world that partly judges women by what 407 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: we wear, how much we weigh, and whether or not 408 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: and who or how we love. Not my fault that 409 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: with every glorious new possibility for women came an extra 410 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: sense of isolation when we not only couldn't keep up, 411 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: but we're told we shouldn't talk about the things that 412 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: held us back. She continues later in the essay, I 413 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: would try to sum up days of research and perspective 414 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: and the real life experience of living in this culture 415 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: into four tiny newspaper comic strip boxes with a bit 416 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: of hope in the last panel, and would be heartbroken 417 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: sometimes honestly, when some people would say, there she goes 418 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: writing about shopping again. I wanted to write notes to 419 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: all the people who were unhappy with my work and 420 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: explain myself. I wanted to write notes to all the 421 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: people who were happy with my work and tell them 422 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: how deeply grateful I was. They let me know that 423 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't alone. Kathy and I spoke about this criticism 424 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: as well. I am well aware that my strip was 425 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: ridiculed a lot, Okay, ridiculed by by some. I'm not 426 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: just not liked by others, actively just liked by women 427 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: who are in a much stronger, um more self assured 428 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: place of feminism than I was when I wrote a 429 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: lot of it. After the comic ended, Kathy guys White 430 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: lived her life. She had two elderly parents that she 431 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: spent more time with in Florida, and she was able 432 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: to spend time with her daughter, Ivy during her senior 433 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: year of high school. Starting in she started inching back 434 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: into the art world, developing a following on Instagram. These 435 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: comics tended to reference current events as they were happening. 436 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: Kathy supports Christine blasi Ford's testimony. Kathy supports the Walk 437 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: for Our Lives. Kathy tells you a vote in the 438 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: mid terms, and on and on. Two thousand nineteen brought 439 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: Kathy's first book that wasn't comics, an essay collection where 440 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: she's the most open she's ever been about her life 441 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: and experiences throughout her career. Branded as Essays from the 442 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: grown Up Years, it was a really enjoyable read that 443 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: invokes the kind of work that Nora Ephron was doing 444 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: in her essay collections later in her career. There's a 445 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: lot of talk about the indignities and frustrations of aging, 446 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: of being caught between caring for a young adult daughter 447 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: and elderly parents, reflections on love and marriage, and on 448 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: the passing of her father during the two thousand tens. 449 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: The book was well received, and for the first time 450 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: in ten years, Kathy was back on the press circuit, 451 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: speaking to a whole new generation of women that younger 452 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 1: people like me mainly knew through people dunking on it 453 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: rather than actually engaging with it. And this relevance surged 454 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: once again in two thousand and twenty when the pandemic 455 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: lockdown began in the United States, because Kathy started creating 456 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: comics on a regular basis again. So, after ten years 457 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: of absence, what's it like to be back the woman 458 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: with her face in the mash mash potatoes and that proud, 459 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: that proud icon of feminism? Right? How did they feel 460 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: having like the comic back in your in your life, 461 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: and like a in a very regular sense. The first 462 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: word that comes to mind is guilt ridden. You know, 463 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: when I did the comic strip, I would you know, 464 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: I would do it weeks ahead, and then weeks later 465 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: I might get a letter or two in the mail saying, 466 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: G I like that one, or G I hated that one. 467 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: So that was that. But this way, you know, ten 468 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: seconds after I draw it, I can post it, and 469 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: then ten seconds after that somebody has something to say 470 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: about it. And then there's kind of the the need 471 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: to kind of communicate with everybody and then to follow 472 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: what other people are doing, and it's it's you know, 473 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: I'll just say it's a lot. I have loved um 474 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: having a place to dump my anxieties. I have loved that. 475 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: I never, I never in a million years thought I 476 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: would be drawing regularly again. And I'm also I'm not 477 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: sure how long I'm going to do it. But I 478 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: think when when I started doing them, I mean, of course, 479 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: it originally just for me to dump my frustrations on paper, 480 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: but I know from doing the comic strip that one 481 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: thing I can contribute to the world is uh, you know, commiseration. 482 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: I'll say, well, well, everybody I think during the pandemic 483 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: was kind of doing what they could do, you know, 484 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: to help be of service to others or to help others. 485 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: I was not going to go out of the house 486 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: and do anything, but this is something I could, I 487 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: could contribute, and a lot of people, I think also 488 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: the pandemic has um made a lot of people kind 489 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: of reflective and nostalgic for something normal or something you know, 490 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: some friends. A lot of people kind of reconnected with friends, 491 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, online or on the phone. And I heard 492 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: from a lot of people that they just said, oh, 493 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: Kathy's was my friend for so long, and thank god, 494 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, there she is again, and that that she's 495 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: I love that. I love feeling like I could kind 496 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: of had the character be there as a friend to 497 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: people during this time. The pandemic comics are emblematic of 498 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: this old friend vibe. Like so many people, the Kathy 499 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: character struggles with managing anxiety about the state of the world, 500 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: with food, issues, with boredom, with missing friends and family, 501 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: referencing the extreme discomfort and darkness of this time without 502 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: actually getting too dark and that brings us up to 503 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: today as I record this. Kathy is chilling with her 504 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: year old mom doing zoom yoga classes together in Florida. 505 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: She's living. Maybe something that really strikes me about Kathy 506 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: Guys White is that in my experience talking with her, 507 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: she still very much embodies a lot of that insecurity 508 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: and willingness to believe unkind things that people have said 509 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: about her. And this is another point where I personally 510 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: connect with her. Of course, the shitty stuff is always 511 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: going to stick with you more. I was never I 512 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: am not a funny person. I've never told the joke. 513 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: I only have uh. Over time, I acquired a skill 514 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: of finding um, the the bright moment in not you 515 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: know and not right moments, and then putting it down 516 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: on paper. But I'm not I'm not uh comedian. Her 517 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: career is one built on self deprecation. But taking Cathy's 518 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: view of herself at face value without looking at the 519 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: scope of her accomplishments and the foundation built by those 520 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: who came before her, would be to make a huge mistake. 521 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Cathy's work, while remaining pretty narrow in its scope, tried 522 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: to talk about things that made women feel bad about themselves, 523 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of the criticism thrown at her is 524 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: rooted in the character being not a good enough role 525 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: model for other women. This specific criticism is so bizarre 526 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: to me because the comic is written for adults, like 527 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: I don't think there was a single person who is 528 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: modeling their behavior after Cathy comics. And adding to this, 529 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: the amount of pressure that was on the few women 530 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: working in this industry, Cathy Guyswaite and Lynn Johnston primarily, 531 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: and expecting one comic book character to represent all women 532 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: is an impossible bar to clear. And it's not an 533 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: expectation or criticism that was ever lobbed at her male cohort. 534 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: You know, in retrospect, there were a zillion issues that 535 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: I could have taken on Um more strongly in the 536 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: comics trip, And you know, part of me thanks she 537 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: if i'd really, if I've ever gotten ahead enough to 538 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: really step back, you know, could I should? I would? 539 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: I have Um presented a stronger stand on on a 540 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: lot of things. And yet I also know that I 541 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: think that my character's contribution to the world is one 542 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: of offering women a relief and commiseration and helping you 543 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: know that there's no getting out and conquering the world 544 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: if you can't get out the front door if you 545 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: don't feel good enough for about yourself to get out 546 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: the front door, and you can't you know, if you 547 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: can't get through the next five minutes, you know, a 548 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: little bit of optimism. So I think that that is 549 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: a you know, the character's main service is not not 550 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: always a good role model, but always a friend. But 551 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: also like you have to speak on behalf of you know, 552 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: your entire gender, Like that's that's such a huge additional 553 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: weight to be to be put on you. Well, thank 554 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: you for that acknowledgement. Throughout her career, Cathy bounced between 555 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: accepting the press projection that she and her character are 556 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: one and the same in the more nuanced reality that 557 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: she had her own private life that she never spoke 558 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: of in detail in public, and a clear mission on 559 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: creating artistic comfort food for the adult women of her era. 560 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: I think this quote from and the Detroit Repress sums 561 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: it up perfectly. Nobody has it totally together, and that's okay. 562 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: I'll be speaking with Kathy guys White a lot more 563 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: throughout this series, but I wanted you to know her too. 564 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: We hold up so many writers and figureheads like her 565 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: and Kathy deserves her flowers to her work is representative 566 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: of dealing with the pressures of being a woman in 567 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: the late twentieth century. In practice, characters who are aware 568 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: of and supportive of the feminist movement, but who have 569 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: trouble logistically and personally applying it to their own lives. 570 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: But to this day, feminists remain some of Kathy's biggest critics. 571 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna look at why and where Kathy's work falls 572 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: in the history of American women next week on ac 573 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: cast Where where are you and the children thing? Wow? Okay, 574 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: I'm I'm definitely not there yet. H yeah, I've I've been. 575 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: A Cast is an I Heart radio production. It is written, researched, 576 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: and hosted by me Jamie Loftus. Sophie Lichtman is the 577 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: world's Greatest producer, Isaac Taylor is the world's greatest editor, 578 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: Zoe Blade writes the world's greatest music, and Brendan Dickert 579 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: wrote the world's greatest theme. Huge thank you to Kathy 580 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: guys White for this episode in particular, and in today's episode, 581 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: you heard the vocal talent of Anna, host Na Julia 582 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: Claire and Isaac Taylor.