1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you from how stuff 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: works not cold. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about waitresses. 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Although Caroline is that term a bit pasta in the 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: same way as stewardesses are now referred to as flight attendants. 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: You know, I thought about this too. Um, And yes, 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: you definitely don't want to call flight attendants stewardesses because 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: I know this because Sally, my mother, is one of 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: those flight attendants. Um, But waitresses, I feel like there's 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: a gray area. Um. One thing we read was talking 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: about how waitress is such a past a term that 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: it's it's too focused on gender and feminizing, feminizing the profession. 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: But you and I when we did our episode on 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: women sculptors called them sculptresses. I don't know. I think 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: it just depends on the context. We have a little 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: bit of distance from having called women sculptures sculptures. Is 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: so it's kind of like calling women ladies. Yeah, I 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, there's the gender neutral default of server. 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: But honestly, part of me feels a little strange referring 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: to people as servers because it sounds more distinctly servile. 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: Sure it is the service industry. Yes, well, it's kind 22 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: of like actor and actress. But there's still that distinction 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: there too, and that maybe we're more used to calling 24 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: them waitresses or actresses when we should be calling them 25 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: all actors or waiters. Clearly we need some servers of 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: any gender to weigh it on this. Um the closest 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: I've gotten to being a waitress and we're just going 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: to default to waitress for this episode. Well, yeah, because 29 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: we are talking a lot about gender. Surprise, surprise. Yeah, 30 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 1: so it's gonna be all waitress from here on out, 31 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: just like that Carrie Russell film which I watched so 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: long ago and I'm never going to see it again. 33 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, and I love Carrie Russell. Was 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: it any good? No? Really hurts me. To the closest 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: I've gotten to being Gary Russell in waitress is working 36 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: as the fry girl at a Chick fil A when 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: I was in high school. Really, Oh my god, I 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: love this mental image of you working the fire. Oh wait, 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: I completely forgot. Yes, I have been a server. I 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: worked for a catering company in college. I think I 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: just completely blocked that out because it was it was 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: a pretty dismal job because at the beginning of the 43 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: night it was okay. We would work a lot of 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: wedding receptions, but as the night progressed and people had 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: more to drink, the job became tougher. And it was 46 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 1: definitely one of those jobs where drunk men would consistently 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: quest me to smile as I'm holding a tray and 48 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: also wearing a bow tie, and I just wanted to 49 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: explain to them that that was the last thing I 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 1: wanted to do. Would beat a smile and a bow tie, 51 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: because you know, if I had tap shoes on as well, 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: then then maybe I would do a little song and 53 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: dance for them. Well, how would you hold the tray? 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: Study though, Well, I'd be that good Caroline. I'd still 55 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: be held my tray, do a little soft shoe. No, 56 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it's the same thing 57 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: with speaking of stewartesss versus flight attendants, I think it's 58 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: the same thing. There's that sense of entitlement that this person, 59 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: this woman is just there for your every whim. My 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: mother has been a flight attendant PS for forty six years, 61 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: and so she has some stories along those lines. Um, 62 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that in any profession where a 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: woman is in a position to serve people, she is 64 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: frequently subjected to basically sentiments of entitlement. Well, it seems 65 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: like there's an expectation that you should appear happy while 66 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: doing so. Yeah, you should be happy to serve me, 67 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: don't you want to tip? Caroline? Have you ever been 68 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: a server? No? Not in not in any real life capacity, 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: just in your dreams. I dreams. No. My family and 70 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: I gonna be real vague here because I think it'll 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: be funnier. My family and I go to this place, uh, 72 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: this community on a lake in Michigan every summer and 73 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: it has a central dining hall, clubhouse type thing. It's 74 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: very dirty dancing minus Patrick Swayze and the dancing, and 75 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: it sounds more culty the way you're describing it. You 76 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't be wrong. Uh but anyway, now I worked there 77 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: as a as a waitress in the summers. What was 78 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: it like, Um, well, you're just serving families that you know, 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: so like when you mess up, everybody's really understanding, and 80 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: it's all families and they're all they've all known you 81 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: for a million years. So nobody's there's no like sexual 82 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: harassment in that job. Well, thank good this consider, although 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure that happens so often. We're actually gonna get 84 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: into that later in the podcast. Something to look forward to. Um. 85 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: This got me thinking though, too, about how a good 86 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: girlfriend of mine is working as a server at one 87 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: of the nicest restaurants in Atlanta and it is so 88 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: emotionally taxing for her because the standards are so intense 89 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: and everyone has a job to do. Like she had 90 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: a really huge breakthrough at work because she was allowed 91 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: to serve cheese, present the cheese cart to tables, and 92 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's at that level where you do 93 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 1: get excited if you are deemed appropriate enough to present cheese. 94 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: But it's like someone comes out and does the chairs 95 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: and then the napkins and all of the different courses. 96 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: But if your friends, so your friends working at at 97 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: a really nice, upscale restaurant, does she face does she 98 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: complain about facing sexual harassment the way that maybe friends 99 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: of yours have faced at less expensive places. No, not 100 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: at all. The major complaint is the intense standards and 101 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: how brutal the kitchen environment is. Where if you where 102 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: if say she's serving cheese and trips and spills cheese 103 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: on someone's lap. Oh my god, that's like my heaven, 104 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: please spill cheese on me. Then she would be publicly 105 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: reprimand that's awkward for everyone. Well, by public, I mean 106 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: you know, in front of other people. It would be 107 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: known to the rest of the staff that she messed up. 108 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: So it's intense, I mean, and I would be curious 109 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: to know from other people working in the restaurant industry 110 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: out there if there is that spectrum of high end 111 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: hell coming from more from internal standards, where as the 112 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: lower end diner style restaurants might face more customer related difficulties. Well, 113 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like she's working in a place that puts 114 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: a premium on service, not necessarily gendered or feminine flirty service. 115 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: And one thing that we did find out and doing 116 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: this look into waitressing in general, is that it tended 117 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: to be easier for servers who were in like quote 118 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: unquote those gender neutral jobs where it was just serving, 119 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: it was just waiting rather than waitressing. It was easier 120 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: to resist feelings of subservience and entitlement. Sure because in 121 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: this role of waitress specifically, as obviously we're gonna talk 122 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: about in much greater detail. You're it's it's really not 123 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: so much about the food, it's about the presentation, and 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: by presentation, it's your presentation and interaction with all these people, 125 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: which also to Caroline, just thinking about it right now, 126 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: considering I level of introversion, like having to constantly be 127 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: interacting with other people and earning my money through that, 128 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how exhausting that is. Oh yeah, 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Oh for sure, I am. I think I'm a nice 130 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: combo of introversion and extroversion. Real nice combo, real nice, 131 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: real nice combo serves me well and poorly all at 132 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: the same time. Um, but I think it would be 133 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: exhausting too, having to like put on a face, uh 134 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: smiley face all the time. Yeah, I mean I blocked 135 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: out as that I mentioned like five minutes ago, just 136 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: being a cater waiter in college. Um. Well, let's get 137 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: into not any more of our personal history, but more 138 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: restaurant history, because we've talked in podcast past about barmaids, 139 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: women behind the bar, and we've talked us around these 140 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: kinds of emotional labor issues, women getting out in public, 141 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: and these early occupations that were gradually opened up to women. Yeah, 142 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: so early in our country's history, Um, everybody was sort 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: of pitching in, you could say, And so we had 144 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: you know, the bars, the ends, the taverns. The wife 145 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: and children and daughters were expected to pitch in and 146 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: serve the customers. So if we're looking at the early 147 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: early history of waitresses, I guess we could trace it 148 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: back to those early in owners daughters. You know, slinging 149 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: slinging beers, slinging sliders, slinging fliders, early fliders. Yeah, ye, 150 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: all these sliders. Um. But the first formal restaurant uh 151 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: in the country is Delmonico's in New York, which opened 152 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen seven. But restaurants and eating out as a 153 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: thing wouldn't become common until the mid nineteenth century. People 154 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: were very like, wait, going outside my home and eating 155 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: somewhere and paying someone to bring me food. This is 156 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: so strange. It does feel strange sometimes to be honest. Um, 157 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: but those first servers at Delmonico's would have been gents, 158 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: not ladies, snappily dressed. Chance, they would have had probably 159 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: the same type of bow tie you wore as a 160 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: cater waiter. So I'm just imagining a little Loomier from 161 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: beating the beast, running around Yeah, yeah, French and on fire. Yeah, 162 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: because apparently by nineteenth century men, my brain imagines just candlesticks. Yeah. 163 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: I think that's fine. It's a strange association, but we'll 164 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: run with it. Um. So yeah, like Chris and said, 165 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: it was mostly dudes serving food. That was the standard 166 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: because you know, women just weren't leaving the house to work. 167 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: That was unheard of. And there was a shortage of 168 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: jobs for candlesticks. That's right, don't forget the candlesticks. So 169 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: so where do we even get waitresses? Where did where 170 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: did waitresses first emerge the Wild West? I know, I 171 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: love it. I love wild West history. This is coming 172 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: from a Smithsonian magazine article and Stephen Fried's book Appetite 173 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: for America. Fred Harvey in the Business of Civilizing the 174 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: Wild West One Meal at a Time. That is such 175 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: a long subtitle. But so who is Fred Harvey? What's 176 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: going on? So? Fred Harvey was this British entrepreneur who 177 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: launched the Harvey House restaurant chain in the eighteen seventies. 178 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: And this whole idea was that there was a railroad line, 179 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: the Santa Fe Railroad, that ran between Chicago and l 180 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: A and you would have these you know, stops along 181 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: the way, and there were very few options for people 182 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: to eat, and people would scam customers at these old 183 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: timey train stop like sandwich shacks, where they would they 184 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: would only have a few minutes to dash out of 185 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: the train grab a sandwich. But at these early restaurants 186 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: pre Fred Harvey, the proprietors were so evil they would 187 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: delay serving food until they knew the train was about 188 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: to take off, so people wouldn't have time to eat, 189 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: and they would essentially be like, oh, too bad, and 190 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: they would not pack it up to go. They would 191 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: just snag the food and then reserve it to the 192 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: next batch of customers. The West, Yeah, talk about wild West. 193 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: So basically you had a bunch of jerks moving out 194 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: west serving people sandwiches. Almost that is my hell. Spilling 195 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: cheese on me is my heaven. Snatching a sandwich away 196 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,599 Speaker 1: from me is my hell. We'll imagine you'd get the 197 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: cheese spilled on you perhaps, but then that sort of 198 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: would snatch it back, take it away. No, once it's 199 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: on my body, it is mine. I'm sorry. I have 200 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: to get back to that train. Well, so Harvey's whole 201 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: vision for this chain of restaurants, which were America's first 202 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: chain restaurants of the way, was to offer workers and 203 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: rail travelers and pioneers the creature comforts that they were 204 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: lacking in the dusty old Frontier, and part of that 205 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: was women. There had always been a few waitresses in 206 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: Harvey's less hostile Frontier locations, places that were not as 207 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: like we're going to have shootouts over lunch um, even 208 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: including his niece Florence, but it was still thought too 209 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: dangerous to have vulnerable single women working farther out west. 210 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: But things would eventually change, and Harvey would eventually replace 211 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: his majority mail servers with women for a couple of reasons, 212 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: pretty much all of which had to do with trying 213 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: to exert civilizing forces on the brutish uh male servers 214 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: and employees, but also, of course the male patrons who 215 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: were shooting up the place and hold ups were common. 216 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: It was the wild West, after all. People were getting 217 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: into brawls, rabble rousers, and desperadoes are just coming into 218 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: the restaurant ordering food and refusing to pay. And what 219 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: are you going to do if you're like a server 220 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: with a gun in your face. You're like, well, okay, 221 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: I guess you can have that sandwich, the classic Desperado 222 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: dine and dash. I mean it was wild back then. Yeah, 223 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: the waiters would also be carrying guns themselves. Everyone's packing heat. 224 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: Everyone's pack and heat. Well, you have to keep in 225 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: mind too, that it was super common. There was a 226 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: lot of racial conflict. It was super common to hire 227 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: freed slaves, former slaves out west to be servers, bus boys, cook, 228 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But racism was rampant because not 229 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: only did you have former slaves moving west, but you 230 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: had former Confederate soldiers moving west to become cowboys. And 231 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: everyone wants to get a new lease on life. But 232 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that racism just disappears. And so a 233 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: lot of the black servers, blackmail servers, would be packing 234 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: heat just to protect themselves. And you can imagine that 235 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: that breeds a lot of tension when everyone is on 236 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: edge because nobody likes each other there. Well, so we 237 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: get a turning point in Harvey's restaurants when a brawl 238 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: breaks out among the black mail employees at the Raton 239 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: in New Mexico location and Harvey ends up firing the 240 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: whole staff, and it's like, I'm fed up with this, 241 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: Like everybody's fighting, there's all this violence, there's all of 242 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: this racial tension. I'm not going to have it anymore. 243 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: And he tasks new manager Tom Gable was saving the day, 244 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: and Gable in eighty three has a pretty novel solution, 245 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: just kick all the black guys out and replaced them 246 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: with white female waitresses. So the solution to racism is 247 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: to just, you know, kick black men to the curb 248 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: and give some white ladies some jobs. And that is 249 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: the uncomfortable chapter of How waitresses emerged in America. Yeah, well, 250 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: this is a policy that was expanded across Harvey's company, 251 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: getting rid of any male servers, particularly black mail servers, 252 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: and replacing them with white female waitresses, specifically though unmarried 253 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: women from Kansas. He would provide room and board and 254 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: good pay in order to secure a civilizing force. So 255 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: this was a racist policy across the board. You were 256 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: institutionally firing black men and hiring exclusively white women. So 257 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: if you know, a black guy gets fired and his 258 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: wife needs a job, she couldn't pick up the slack 259 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: because she would not get the job because of the 260 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: color of her skin. Yeah, exactly. And so they brought 261 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: in these women from a completely different state who had 262 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: no families, nothing to you know, distract them, so to speak. 263 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: And they didn't have any local ties, so they couldn't 264 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: get caught up in like danger and drama of the 265 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: wild West. They were they were part of this front 266 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: line of women who were leaving the home, leaving their 267 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: families or their rural settings and looking for ways to 268 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: support themselves and also get a little excitement. Yeah, I 269 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting that sort of intentional isolation 270 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: of not har we not wanting to hire local women. 271 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: But that also speaks to the intensity of their jobs. 272 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: Not to say that, you know, serving today is not 273 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: still very intense. But this was an entire lifestyle because 274 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: Harvey girls would live together in a dorm with a 275 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: female chaperone. Of course, bedtime was eleven pm except for 276 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: Friday nights, and they wore out or uniforms on outfits, 277 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: uniforms very reminiscent of maids, like upper class maids uniforms, 278 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: so you would have black and white, no makeup. They 279 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: also had to sign a contract and the kicker remain 280 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: unmarried for at least six months. Yeah, and then you've 281 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: got a bonus if you stayed at the end of 282 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: the six months. If you were, you're still there and 283 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: you're still single, that you've got to on us. And 284 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: then if he stayed for the full year, like things 285 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: started to financially look up for you and Harvey like 286 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: he he treated his company, not that you shouldn't, but 287 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: he treated his company and his restaurants like a machine. 288 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: I mean he had a hand in everything. He wanted 289 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: to know at the beginning of every day, how many 290 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: steaks were served, how much bacon did people eat? And 291 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: so part of that was very much like I don't 292 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: care about the black mail servers. Are they causing trouble 293 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: whether you know he's blaming them for causing trouble. Oh, well, 294 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: will white women come in and be a civilizing force. Well, 295 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: I don't care about them either. I just want them 296 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: to be robots serving food in the most efficient way possible. Well, 297 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: and there was a sexism too of assuming women are 298 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: easier to manage, they have the calming influence and would be, 299 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, the positive presence for those lonely men. Men 300 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: would want to come to these restaurants in order to 301 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: have a little female companionship at least daring one meal, 302 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: and not to mention that they were very full wordable. 303 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: This is the theme every single time we talked about 304 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: the feminization of an industry. Women were cheap. I mean, granted, 305 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: all of their living expenses were paid, but Harvey girls 306 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: earned lapping seventeen dollars per month compared to mail waiters 307 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: who would make around forty eight dollars. But they didn't 308 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: have to pay their room and board. But still I 309 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: have a feeling that even with their living expenses factored in, 310 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: there is a gender wage gap. Well, yeah, because there 311 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: is um Yeah, And so Tom Gable Uh, talking about 312 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: this policy much later said, and that is how I 313 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: brought civilization to New Mexico. Those waitresses were the first 314 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: respectable women the cowboys and miners had ever seen, that is, 315 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: outside of their own wives and mothers. Those roughnecks learned 316 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: manners and so there, I mean, you have the constant 317 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: and consistent sta areotype of woman as nurturer, woman as 318 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: pure and good motherly virgin Mary influence on Ruff and Harryman, 319 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: and these paternalistic rules set in place in order to 320 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: maintain the respectability of these younger, unmarried women working out 321 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: in the public and interacting directly with men, unmarried or not. 322 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: And I guess we should say to that. And I'm 323 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: not sure at what point this term comes into youth. 324 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: But the Harvey girls were not called waitresses because waitress 325 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: was a term that was lowlier than made at the time. 326 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: So not a great opinion of these women who are 327 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: serving food to men. So by the turn of the 328 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: twentieth century, women are taking cues from the Harvey girls 329 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: and entering restaurants in force. So by the late eighteen 330 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: hundreds early nineteen hundreds, they would often take the place 331 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: of mail workers on strike. Yeah, so they're basically being scabs. 332 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: Although they're not in unions at this point quite yet, 333 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: they will be like in five minutes from now, um, 334 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, they would take the place of male workers because, 335 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: like christ And said, they were cheaper. And so by 336 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: the nine twenties and thirties you have the rise of 337 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: diners in America. We saw the rise of restaurants fifty 338 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: years or seventy years earlier. Uh, and then we get 339 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: the rise of diners accompanied by the continued rise of 340 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: female servers. And keep in mind this is during the depression. 341 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,239 Speaker 1: Women would work for lower pay. Employers thought that they 342 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: could attract male customers but also make female customers feel 343 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: more welcome and comfortable in these public dining settings. And 344 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: even within the context of the depression, diners were still 345 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: stable business because going to get a slice of pie 346 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: at the diner was the affordable luxury that some families 347 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: could still indulge in. Yeah, exactly. Well, so, as more 348 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: and more women do enter the workforce as restaurant workers, 349 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: as servers and waitresses, they become a major labor force 350 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: almost right off the bat. This is really neat to see, 351 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of this information is coming from historian 352 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: Dorothy Sue Cobble. Her name is all over the place 353 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: in terms of the labor history of women in restaurants, 354 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: and frankly, it could be its own episode to talk 355 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: about the labor history of waitresses. But she and several 356 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: other sources talk about sociologist and undercover waitress Francis Donovan, 357 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: who in nineteen seventeen she embeds secretly with a bunch 358 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: of waitresses and writes a book about it, and she 359 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: describes these groups of women as saying, here we have 360 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: a feminist movement and ideals embodied in a class, so 361 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: that should set the tone that these women are not 362 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: to be messed with. And on that same note, waitress 363 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: union started emerging in the early twentieth century and and 364 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: really what made them strong was that most of these 365 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: women were working full time, year round, and they also 366 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: saw their work as vital to supporting their families or 367 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: if they were single, supporting themselves. And there was to 368 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: this this push for dignity in the work that they did. UM. 369 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: In the same way as if you talk to professional 370 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: servers today, like career waiters or waitresses, they saw what 371 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: they did not just as slinging food, but as a 372 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: true craft. Yeah, they consider themselves to be craftswomen that 373 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: this whole job, it's not just like uh an assembly 374 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: line of putting sandwiches together, which is an amazing assembly line. Um. 375 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: They were literally like, no, I have to perform for you. 376 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: And this is something you hear from waitresses and waiters today, 377 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: like I have to put on a smile, I have 378 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: to act the part, to act correctly to make you 379 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I've got to bring out the food in 380 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: just such a way. I have to anticipate every need. 381 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: And so they're really putting together this perform meants in 382 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: order to make the customer happy and comfortable. And as 383 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: one of those customers, it's so apparent when you do 384 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: have someone who is a legit like crafts person server, 385 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: because it does make a difference in the entire dining 386 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: experience of making you not only enjoy what you're eating 387 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more, but feel special while it's happening. Yeah, 388 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: we all like to feel a little special, which is 389 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: why I love McDonald. Let's take care of me. You 390 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: are loving it. So these unions were mainly concerned with 391 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: helping members advanced economically and controlling workplace conditions, and many 392 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: also had benefit funds to help when women got sick 393 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: and provide money to the closest relative when a member died. 394 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: They were really trying to fill that gap that existed 395 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: in helping support women workers. But in the early nineteen hundreds, 396 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: men weren't exactly super helpful with these waitresses organizing like 397 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: some would join co ed local unions, but they often 398 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: would have to form their own because their male coworkers 399 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: would ignore them. Um. They were also patronizing moral reform 400 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: and progressive era groups that were stymying these women getting 401 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: together and um, advocating on their own behalfs. Yeah, basically 402 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: trying to speak for them, like, oh, you poor helpless 403 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: woman who's having to work in these terrible conditions, let 404 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,239 Speaker 1: me tell you how to live your life. And there 405 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: were also, frankly, a lot of internal divisions among the 406 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: women working in restaurants. I mean, that's no surprise, people 407 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: are different, but these divisions were based on marital status, race, socioeconomics. Uh. 408 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: Some other obstacles to women waitresses organizing and achieving what 409 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: they wanted were feuds with employers who either underestimated them 410 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: and or just did not care about the people working 411 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: for them. If Taylor as old as time, Taylor is 412 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: old as time. Kristen just keeps making beauty and the 413 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: beast references not even meaning to I don't know where 414 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: this is coming from in my brain, although I am 415 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: a little concerned now to be honest, well we'll have 416 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: to have a movie night. Um. But yeah, so they 417 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: these women were a powerful force, and it's it's really 418 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: cool to read about because so often we just talked 419 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: about how terrible everything is for women, and not that 420 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: it wasn't terrible, and that these women didn't have to 421 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: experience awful conditions and terrible customers and things like that, 422 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: but they really form this incredible force of workers. Well, 423 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: and this echoes to our podcast a while back on 424 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: how teaching became women's work. You have a similar kind 425 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: of thing of those first women teachers organizing and advocating 426 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: for themselves. So back to waitresses. In nineteen oh one, 427 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: the San Francisco Union pushed for a ten hour work day, 428 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: down from a way more than ten hour work day. Um, 429 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: and you had more employers going along with the nineteen 430 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: o two waitress wage scales and working a remant to 431 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: employ union members only grant a six day work week 432 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: and pay eight dollars a day and nine dollars a night. 433 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're we're seeing very quickly after the formation 434 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: of these women's only waitress unions, employers starting to be like, 435 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: oh god, oh okay, well you guys are are allowed, 436 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: so I'll give you some stuff, but uh, some other 437 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: highlights are in Like in nineteen o two, over just 438 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: a few months, the Chicago waitress Union in particular went 439 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: from forty one to fifteen hundred members, and they were 440 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: led by Shiro Elizabeth Maloney who successfully demanded more pay 441 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and fewer hours, and Maloney is credited with saying, I 442 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: think a girl should be entitled to live decently and 443 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: properly and enjoy some of the things in life that 444 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: her employer wants his children to have. And when those 445 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: employers sort of stood in their way, these waitress unions 446 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: would fight back. For instance, in nineteen oh eight, after 447 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: waitresses won a wage in our concessions in Seattle, which 448 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: by the way, these were among the first waitress unions, 449 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: restaurant owners refused to go along with it and proposed 450 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: a return to working seven days a week. Good grief, um, 451 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: But all waitresses but one struck in solidarity, forcing employers 452 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: back down after just twelve hours. Yeah, the the employers 453 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: were all just going like, oh jeez, this is these 454 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: women have opinions. This is terrifying. Well, I mean, who's 455 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: gonna serve their food? Who's going to create that welcoming 456 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: environment for customers without them? Exactly? And in ve workdays 457 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: were legally limited to ten hours, though waitresses typically still 458 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: worked longer hours. And moving forward in time just a 459 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: little bit, waitress unions were weakened somewhat by defections. A 460 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: lot of them left for co ed hospitality type unions, 461 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: but they rebounded during and after World War One thanks 462 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: to things like the feminization of food service work, and 463 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: also the fact that co ed unions tilted more female 464 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: as male participation waned amid prohibition, because keep in mind 465 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: that wiped out male dominated bartending. But one lettle downside 466 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: of this a little more racism for you. A lot 467 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: of these unions restricted membership to white women only until 468 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, so women of color were encouraged to 469 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: form their own unions or join existing ones. Yeah. And 470 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: another uncomfortable little blip in uh waitress union history was 471 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of white waitresses were discouraged from working at, 472 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: for instance, Chinese restaurants. There was a lot of hostility 473 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: out west, particularly toward Asian business people, and so the 474 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: unions took a very uncomfortable stance there. Wait, so what 475 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: is the discomfort that white women couldn't take those jobs? Why? 476 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: Because they weren't wanted there? No, Well, the unions, the 477 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: white the whites only unions did not want their members 478 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: working at Asian run establishments. Yeah, okay, yeah, that happened, 479 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: probably still does. Um, but we've talked a lot about 480 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: this organizing within these early groups of waitresses. But now 481 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about the perceptions of waitresses, like how we 482 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: culturally view them so public perception wise, the biggest risk, 483 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: it seems like, of being a waitress in the early 484 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: twentieth century was that you would be seen as a prostitute. Yeah, 485 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: that whole cultural perception of Oh, woman's working outside the 486 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: home for money, she's a prostitute, will and interacting with men. Yeah, 487 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: she's prostituting herself. But she's also vulnerable because you know, 488 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: women are helpless. They can't do anything to protect themselves 489 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: or make their own decisions. And this is a concept. 490 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: If you've read Uh, Devil in the White City by 491 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: Eric Larson or Sin in the Second City by Karen Abbott, 492 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: these are all focused in that whole progressive era in Chicago, 493 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: you've got more women moving to cities, and women being 494 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: preyed upon by evil men looking to sell them into 495 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: prostitution and things like that. Women coming to the city 496 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: with all of these ideals like I'm going to make 497 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: something of myself and be independent, and then they end 498 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: up working in a brothel. Not that that didn't happen, 499 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: but this was like a huge cultural fear around this time, 500 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: the panic of white slavery particularly, yes, exactly, And so 501 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: at the same time you've got women going into restaurants 502 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: and people are panicking about that. So in nineteen twelve, 503 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: Chicago's Juvenile Protective Association issues a report claiming that girls, 504 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: of course, because we can't call them women, took this 505 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: waitressing work because hey, it doesn't require any skill, it 506 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: includes meals, and it's exciting because that's all women care about. 507 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: It's just a little bit of excitement. But hut that 508 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: they could stand the hard work, heavy trays, sore feet, 509 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: and rude men for just a couple of years before 510 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: they burned out. And so they point out that waitresses, 511 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: they state this is fact, that waitress has had no 512 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: hope for a bright future, that they lacked support systems 513 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: and what the report writers considered to be a home, 514 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: and that many were escaping, like we said, maybe bad 515 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: family situations or rural homes to come to the big city. 516 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: So you get all of these tales of the beleaguered, overworked, 517 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: underpaid waitress falling prey to some man's advance, some some 518 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: man who will come and say, oh, you've worked a 519 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: double shift, you're on your break, you need somewhere to 520 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: lie down. You can come to my place in a brothel, 521 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: in a brothel. But the fact of the matter was, 522 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: though the beliaguered and overworked and under paid part seems 523 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: pretty on point, considering that these women were being expected 524 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: to work seven days a week for at least ten 525 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: hours a day at least east yeah, at least. But 526 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: it's interesting how tacked onto that it's the assumption that 527 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: that makes them vulnerable to sex essentially, as opposed to 528 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: just looking at looking at it all realistically and realizing like, yes, 529 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: there are probably women who want to hang out with 530 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: dudes on their break. There are some women who don't. 531 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: Some women just want to lie down in the basement, 532 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: like or Rather than improving working condition, blaming it on 533 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: women for doing it to themselves, inviting this kind of 534 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: sin potentially into their lives, that's right, And so a 535 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: lot of it ties into social fears about women who 536 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: weren't falling in line with domestic expectations. Why are you 537 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: coming into the big city to get a job when 538 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: you should be coming into the big city to become 539 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: a wife. So back to that undercover sociologist we mentioned 540 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: in the first half of the show, Frances Donovan, who's 541 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: in Chicago working as a waitress in v She was 542 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: similarly judgmental about this whole thing. Um. She wrote about 543 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: women who quote failed to realize her ideal of domesticity 544 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: and fanned fears of women resorting to quote semi prostitution 545 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: and would end up getting abortions. Yeah, she said something 546 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: like the all too common solution of getting an abortion 547 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: or something to that effect. That like, yeah, fanning those 548 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: fears about women being on their own in the big city, 549 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: and she was this is a woman who was super 550 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: hung up on sex. By the way, here's how she 551 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: described women getting jobs in restaurants. She says, restaurants want 552 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: women who are young and good looking. The advertisements announced 553 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: it in most managers insist on it. For the most part, 554 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: the girl who was good looking has her pick of 555 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: the jobs for everywhere. The waitress is playing a game. 556 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: It is this which makes her life hard as it 557 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: is fascinating to her. It is a woman's game, the 558 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: sex game. And of course we should keep in mind 559 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: too that Donovan, during her undercover days as a waitress, 560 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: was scandalized by the staffs, sexual banter and joking. Women 561 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: who would be either joking with each other being all 562 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: body and you know, joking about their mail co workers, 563 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: or women and men joking among themselves. She was. She 564 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: thought that this was so dirty. She almost had to 565 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: lie down and fan herself. She couldn't believe it. I mean, 566 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm kind of surprised that Francis pulled up being an 567 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: undercover server. Well she didn't. In one of the sources 568 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: we were looking at that talked about Francis, um she 569 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: was totally pinpointed by a couple of women. A lot 570 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: of women were sympathetic every time she got fired because 571 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: she was a terrible waitress, because she was a sociologist. 572 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm not saying sociologist can't be waitresses, but you know 573 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: what I mean. But a couple of some of the 574 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: places she worked, a couple of the older, more experienced 575 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: waitresses were like, I've got your number. You better not 576 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: let any of these other broads figure you out. Although 577 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: she was a far more progressive mind, the soul Francis 578 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: Donovan undercover waitress incident reminds me of Barbara Aaron Reich's 579 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: book Nickel and Dimed, where she goes around the country 580 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: working undercover in these blue collar, essentially female dominated sector 581 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: So she is a waitress at one point. I think 582 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: she works at waffle House for a while, and she 583 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: gets the job at Walmart and she's a maid, etcetera, etcetera. 584 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: And I had a hard time getting through the book 585 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: because I listened to the audio book where she was 586 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: reading it, and there were times when she came across 587 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: very Francis donovitney of oh these poor women, and I'm 588 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 1: just and she would take breaks and go back to 589 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,919 Speaker 1: her far more comfortable, upper middle class life, wherein at 590 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: one point she bemoans failing a drug test. I think 591 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: maybe it was when she was getting a job at Walmart, 592 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: because when she was in her break in her real life, 593 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: she decided she just needed to smoke some weed just 594 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,879 Speaker 1: to relax. I was like, this is no you're this 595 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: feels so classes. And I know a lot of listeners 596 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: have read this book and it's it's an important book, 597 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: but I think it's interesting to see how those class 598 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: tensions are still so apparent. Because this job has been 599 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: respectable for women, but only women of a certain lower 600 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: income level. It's always been kind of looked down upon. 601 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: We've pitied waitresses historically, it seems like, yeah, I I 602 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: think so too, And I mean, speaking of pay, it's 603 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: interesting to see that there were divisions among waitresses too 604 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: when it came to pay and tips, because women who 605 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: at this time, we're working in places that served alcohol, 606 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: obviously this is pre prohibition reviewed as lower class by 607 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: their fellow waitresses who worked in in dry establishments and 608 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: in restaurants as opposed to places that's had bars. And 609 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: it's part of that interesting dynamic around earning tips that 610 00:37:54,040 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: Chicago Juvenile Protective Association report had found that waitresses in general, 611 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: all in general across the board were looked down upon 612 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: by society at large for accepting tips. It goes back 613 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: to those ideas of like women accepting money for work. 614 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: So it's interesting that women who worked at dry establishments 615 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: would look down on women who are in higher tips 616 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: at places that served alcohol, because you have to wonder like, 617 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: is this just internalized? Are they internalizing the views of 618 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: society large? Is this a little bit of internalized fear 619 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: or conflict or misogyny when they're looking at their fellow 620 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: waitresses and being like, well, you're lower class because you 621 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: serve alcohol and make more money. Well, yeah, I think 622 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: that that's absolutely going on. But there's still that that 623 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: gendered stealing within this whole thing, because it's not like 624 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: women who are waitresses could necessarily climate a kind of ladder. 625 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: Guys would be the managers, men would be the business owners. 626 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: Can I go up on a brief tangent about Mildred Pierce? Okay, 627 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: so some of these sources, Caroline cited the nineteen forty 628 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: five film addutation of the novel Mildred Pierce, and it 629 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: stars Joan Crawford and listeners, if you haven't seen it, 630 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's one of the best film noir examples 631 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: out there, and it was more recently adapted into an 632 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: HBO mini series starring Kate Winslet. I've seen it as well. 633 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: I prefer the movie. But anyway, so the whole thing 634 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: is about how Mildred Pierce, the title character, is in 635 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: post World War two America. Her husband cheats on her 636 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,879 Speaker 1: and she basically or and he leaves, and so she's 637 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: left single mom with two kids. What's she's gonna do? 638 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: She eventually becomes a waitress, but she has to keep 639 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: it a secret from her daughter Vada because she looks 640 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: down at it on it so much because it's seen 641 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: as something that's only appropriate for lower class women to do. 642 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: And then she climbs the ladder and ends up opening 643 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: her own restaurant, becomes very successful, but the whole thing 644 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: is framed as this cautionary tale of women violating that 645 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: domestic role. So it's okay for us to serve the food, 646 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: but if you own the restaurant, then you are a 647 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: woman out of line. Well yeah, I mean that's also 648 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: post World War Two, when men are coming back from 649 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: the war to regain their position as men, manly men, 650 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: heads of the household. Women get out of those factory jobs, 651 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: get back to the house. So yeah, I'm sure a 652 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: piece of pop culture essentially that features a woman in 653 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: a publicly money making successful role was super threatening. Yeah, 654 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: And it's also too in that era where we get 655 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: that classic image of the waitress in that diner uniform 656 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: and she might be chewing gum, she's got a little patch, 657 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: she's happy enough to see you, And it's just kind 658 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: of interesting to think of all of those cultural forces combined, 659 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: which leads us up to today where it seems like 660 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: we haven't progressed that much in the position of waitresses 661 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: at large. Well, certainly not with pay. No, certainly not 662 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: with pay. Yeah, we're about to get into some super 663 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: depressing stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and a 664 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: story over at CNN offering a little perspective. So, as 665 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: of May, two point four million waiters and waitresses in 666 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,959 Speaker 1: the United States we're earning an average of ten forty 667 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: an hour. That sounds all right, No, it does now, 668 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't does not sound like a living wage at all, 669 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: but it sounds a lot better than their actual wage 670 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: for a lot of them. So waitresses are tipped employees. 671 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: That's a category, meaning they're among the three point three 672 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: million Americans in forty two states who earned the federal 673 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 1: minimum hourly wage of two dollars in thirteen cents and 674 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: depend on tips for the rest of their income in 675 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: order to meet the seven dollars and twenty five cents 676 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: federal minimum wage bar for all workers. So suddenly that 677 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: ten dollars and forty cents is sounding a little bit better. 678 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: But you know, this country has had a lot of 679 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 1: wrangling recently over the minimum wage. And I shouldn't say recently, 680 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: I should say always um. But none of that wrangling 681 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: really includes tipped workers, people who they have a base 682 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: salary but then they earned tips on top of it. 683 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: The restaurant industry for a long time has painted these 684 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: people is like, they're fine, they're just complainers. They make 685 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: all of this money on top of their base salaries, 686 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 1: so we don't have to fight the minimum wage fight 687 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 1: for them. So that to thirteen figure has remained static 688 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: since the ninety one, which my jaw dropped to my 689 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: desk when I read that. Well, yeah, I kept I 690 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: read that and I thought there's no way, there's no 691 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: way that this is still accurate. But I, you know, 692 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm looking at current statistics. Yes, yes see, And she 693 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it's still messed up. I would love 694 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: a shoot. Replied that way, And technically, if waitresses earned 695 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: less than that seven and our bar employers are supposed 696 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: to make up the difference with what's called a tip 697 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: credit to raise them up, but so many people don't 698 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: do that. Department of Labor investigation found that nearly of 699 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: restaurants in this country were guilty of some type of 700 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: wage and our violation. More than eleven hundred of those 701 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: cases involved tip credit. So they found that five point 702 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: five million dollars in back wages was owed to workers. 703 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: In other words, this is a quick p s A 704 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: to our listeners. Tip your servers. Yeah, none of this, 705 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: none of this thing that that you're angry. Podcasters here 706 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,279 Speaker 1: have heard about about writing like l O L or 707 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: I only tip my church in the tip line, Like, 708 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,959 Speaker 1: none of that. If you can't afford to tip your server, 709 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: you can't afford to go out to eat, exactly, and 710 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: tip them well because tipped workers are more likely to 711 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: live in poverty. And statistics on people earning the federal 712 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: minimum wage or below in general, nearly half of those 713 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: people are in food preparation and serving. Half of them. Also, 714 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: I mean they're pretty young. They're sixteen twenty four years old. 715 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: Seventy of them are white. Surprisingly, um, nearly half of 716 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: them are white women, and they're more likely to live 717 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: in the South. Yea. So this is a situation where 718 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: it's hard for people to break out of. If you 719 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,959 Speaker 1: can't save enough money to pay your bills or buy 720 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: things for your children or go to the doctor. Like, 721 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: how are you supposed to climb out of that? Oh? 722 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: And consider too, how you know the benefits I'm sure 723 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: for being a server are are not handsome. No, they're 724 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: non existent. And when I lived in Augusta, Georgia, there 725 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: was one restaurant that um a few of my friends 726 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,359 Speaker 1: and acquaintances worked at, like several of them, because it 727 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: was known that the owners provided certain benefits that were 728 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 1: about way above and beyond what any other restaurant in 729 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 1: the area provided. So people were actually able to go 730 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: to the doctor and have a life while they were 731 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: working as waiters and waitresses. But what I was curious 732 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: to learn more about is when it comes to those 733 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: tipped waiters who do make good money. Like my friend, 734 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: for instance, who's working in one of the best restaurants 735 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. She's making a good wage. She's pretty comfortable 736 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: as a server right now. So what kinds of things 737 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: get you into those jobs? Because what one source that 738 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: I wanted but couldn't find, was on the demographics of 739 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: people in those higher end jobs, because I have a 740 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: feeling a lot of them look a lot alike, and 741 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: by that I mean not very diverse. I have a 742 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: feeling we have a lot of white people out in 743 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: those well paying hosting and serving jobs, and bull of 744 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: color still in the kitchen well, and in terms of diversity, 745 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,879 Speaker 1: there's probably a certain look that goes along with it too. 746 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: In terms of just hiring based on conventional attractiveness, Yeah, 747 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: there was a study that came out in August in 748 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: the Journal of Economic Psychology which found not surprisingly at all, 749 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: that conventionally attractive waitresses earn more than twelve hundred dollars 750 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: per year more in tips. And it's not just old 751 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: fellows coming in and taking the waitress a little bit more. 752 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: It's almost also women. Female customers tipping attractive women more 753 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: than unattractive women. Yeah, and so the author's site the 754 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: stereotype of beautiful people being seen as more capable. So 755 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: it's interesting though that it's women driving the trend more 756 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: than men, although when you look at other things that 757 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: make up what people consider attractive, it does have a 758 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: lot more to do with tips coming from men. So 759 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,879 Speaker 1: women who wear makeup, specifically lipstick, earned more tips from men. 760 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: This is coming from a set of studies in the 761 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: International Journal of Hospitality Management. They found that lipstick read 762 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: in particular ladies, was linked with men, but not women, 763 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: tipping more. The author's credit and increase and perceived attractiveness 764 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: and femininity of those women wearing red lipsticks. So goth 765 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,280 Speaker 1: servers with black lipstick not gonna work. The lipstick effect 766 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: not the same, not the same man, not the same. 767 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,959 Speaker 1: But of course, um, we have to discuss the issue 768 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: of diversity, which Kristen mentioned. Who earns less across the 769 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,760 Speaker 1: board black servers. This is a study in sociological inquiry 770 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:47,760 Speaker 1: from They surveyed people about their dining experience, what they tipped, 771 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,760 Speaker 1: how they felt about their server, and survey respondents generally 772 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: viewed their black servers more favorably, but both black and 773 00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: white patrons tipped those black servers less. Come on, people, 774 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: tip your servers, tip them handsomely, whether they're wearing red 775 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: lipstick or not. I mean, it's just it's it's such 776 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: a mess. And I wonder, with all of this tip 777 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: structure that has cheated and consistently seems like it's cheating 778 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 1: servers out of at least a steady, reliable income, how 779 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 1: that looks for a career. Servers stay in Europe where 780 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: you don't tip, you know, everything is built into what 781 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: you pay for your food. I mean, I wonder if 782 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: it's more equitable in places that where the tipping structure 783 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: is not there. I mean, yeah, that means that you 784 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: can't get that random five dollar tip, But that means 785 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: that you might know what to expect to take home 786 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: and not have to be like, well, let me put 787 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: on this red lipstick and a blond wig and lose 788 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 1: some weight and then maybe I'll get some more cash. Well, 789 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 1: the whole appearance thing is part of playing this game 790 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,919 Speaker 1: that we've always had, I mean going to sex game, 791 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: Francis Kanovan's sex, sex game and jollies. We're about to 792 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,840 Speaker 1: get into jollies. Get your jollies. Yeah. So back in, 793 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: a waitress told old Francis Donovan, you can't get along 794 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: in any kind of restaurant unless you jolly the customers. 795 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 1: Certainly the customers look for the jolly. Many times it 796 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: is simply friendly and innocent, but quite as often the 797 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: man starts to deliberately explore. The busier the waitresses, the 798 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: greater her difficulties, the more impatient and clamorous become the men. 799 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: And similarly, study decades later after this, you know server 800 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,320 Speaker 1: is talking about looking for the jollies. Um. A study 801 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: and Work and Occupations found waitresses in particular performed gendered 802 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: scripts to provide good service, so it's easier to resist 803 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 1: subservience and performing the flirt role in restaurants where work 804 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 1: is classified as waitering rather than waitressing, because you take 805 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: that gendered layer out of it to some degree. And 806 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,880 Speaker 1: of course, speaking of subservience and clamoring men, this is 807 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: the part of the podcast where we get to sexual harassment. 808 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: Waitresses have reported that sexual harassment from customers is common, 809 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 1: it's part of the job, and sometimes it's even ingrained 810 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: in the actual restaurant culture itself, whether it's outright or ambiguous, 811 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: which of course when somebody's like, no, I was just 812 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: complimenting you, why are you taking so personally, it's harder 813 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: to fight that kind of stuff when it's just so 814 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: insidious when you're working at Hooters, and when you're working 815 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 1: at Hooters, which is why the next podcast episode is 816 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,800 Speaker 1: going to be all about breastaurant. That's right, I know, 817 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: stay tuned. But so report from the Restaurant Opportunities Centers 818 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: United found that the dynamics of women restaurant workers living 819 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 1: off tips, which forces them to rely on customers for 820 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: their income rather than their employer, forces them to tolerate 821 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,479 Speaker 1: behavior that they wouldn't normally tolerate, and so they write 822 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: this dynamic contributes to the restaurant industry status as the 823 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 1: sing little largest source of sexual harassment claims in the 824 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 1: United States, and research links this prevalence of sexual harassment 825 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 1: with the very nature of the work. So there was 826 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 1: one study, for instance, that we found from two thousand 827 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: and eight in the journal Sociological Viewpoints that looked at 828 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 1: sexual harassment in the context of waitressing and nursing, because 829 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,240 Speaker 1: the authors suggests that both waitresses and nurses perform work 830 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: that replicates traditional gender roles, that kind of emotional labor, 831 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, food service, uh, all that kind of stuff. 832 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: Although like a like there some food service and nursing um. 833 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: But they tie that to something called the sexual spillover 834 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: theory um, which basically maintains that you have sexual harassment 835 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 1: occurring more often in jobs where people expect workers to 836 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: be available as sex objects. So the customers kind of 837 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,720 Speaker 1: expect a little flirting and teasing and maybe even touching 838 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: to be part of the whole job. Yeah, and so 839 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 1: you're serving me, you're caring for me, you're being flirty. 840 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: Uh so naturally I'm just going to take advantage of that. Basically, 841 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: um Donovan would totally disapprove of any of this going on, 842 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: and the authors also point out that ideas about sexuality 843 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,840 Speaker 1: of the role in sexual access to waitresses is perpetuated 844 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: by their expendability, because waitresses are viewed as expendable that 845 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 1: another one will always come along to fill the job. 846 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,400 Speaker 1: Many might feel that they have to play this game 847 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: and be okay with harassment because they lack the leverage 848 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: or the secure job position to fight back, and so 849 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: many in this study, many waitresses in the study reported 850 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: that they felt trapped by the work culture and expectations 851 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,040 Speaker 1: of both the employer and the customer. Yeah, because it's 852 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:59,280 Speaker 1: not just risk posed by grab handy customers. You also 853 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: have shoes of the restaurant hierarchy with male employees and 854 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,200 Speaker 1: managers using sexual harassment sort of as a tool over 855 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 1: these women. Because a lot of these women too, you know, 856 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 1: they are in this lower income job. They need that money, 857 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,319 Speaker 1: they can't afford to get fired, so they might have 858 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 1: to put up with this kind of treatment from their bosses. 859 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:28,800 Speaker 1: So does this then totally blow feminism out of the water. 860 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,440 Speaker 1: Can you be someone who's basically putting up with sexual 861 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: harassment and just taking it with a smile and still 862 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,360 Speaker 1: be a feminist. This was yes, well, yeah, yes, of course. 863 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,960 Speaker 1: But this is something that Brittany Bronson, who is a 864 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: waitress who wrote a New York Times op ed in 865 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,880 Speaker 1: April of this year, really struggles with. Yeah. So she 866 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: I think she's an adjunct professor somewhere, which is a 867 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,799 Speaker 1: code word for it doesn't make a lot of money, 868 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,920 Speaker 1: and she works as a higher end sounds like cocktail 869 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,120 Speaker 1: server on the side, and she encounters a sexually charged 870 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 1: banter even on the lighter side, constantly, and it's horribly 871 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: demeaning and it's really part of the job, you know, 872 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,799 Speaker 1: I mean she she cites men directly asking her to 873 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: come home with them. Yeah, And so she writes about 874 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,520 Speaker 1: how she has to suppress her natural reaction in favor 875 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: of a good tip, because she writes that some days 876 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: I just feel like my rent is more important than 877 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 1: all of my ideals about the gender wage gap and 878 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 1: about feminism. And so she talks about how having that 879 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,399 Speaker 1: job in Vegas in particular is even worse, she she 880 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: posits because Vegas it's the whole thing of like what 881 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,840 Speaker 1: happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. I might be a 882 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,919 Speaker 1: nice guy the rest of the time, but I'm here 883 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 1: and so I get to do whatever I want. My 884 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,279 Speaker 1: family is not here. Well, it sounds like part of 885 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,480 Speaker 1: that sexual spillover theory, where there's the assumption that, oh, well, 886 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: this is part of the job. You look attractive, you 887 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:09,560 Speaker 1: are in perhaps a tight dress, and you're serving me. 888 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,520 Speaker 1: So why shouldn't I be able to flirt with you 889 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: or outright harass you or even as she talks about 890 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,839 Speaker 1: stalk you, I mean that. I mean that's the real 891 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 1: intense side of this too, is that it happens off 892 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,400 Speaker 1: the clock as well. Yeah, and so she then talks 893 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,759 Speaker 1: about because she's struggling with this whole thing of like, oh, 894 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: am I a bad feminist so to speak, because I'm 895 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 1: taking money from people and being harassed at the same time. 896 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,759 Speaker 1: And that leads her to talk about some of her 897 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: coworkers who say, no, it's empowering. I'm taking advantage of 898 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 1: these men's like sexual appetites and being gross because if 899 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 1: I smile and make them feel good, they're giving me money. 900 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,760 Speaker 1: So I get to take money from them and feel 901 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,120 Speaker 1: superior to them in the process. I think it's challenging 902 00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: to make a blanket statement about all of this, just 903 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:03,520 Speaker 1: because there are so many different segments of serving. I 904 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,480 Speaker 1: would imagine that life as a cocktail waitress in Las 905 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:12,239 Speaker 1: Vegas is wildly different than working at a chili's in Buffalo. 906 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,560 Speaker 1: You know, um, you will probably encounter far different working environments. 907 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: But it's pretty clear that there is a lot of 908 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 1: gendered baggage in this entire profession for women, and that 909 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 1: perhaps because it has been so dominated by women and 910 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: really fraught with class issues as well, that we there 911 00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:40,320 Speaker 1: hasn't been this societal push to improve their working conditions. 912 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: We take them for granted. I mean, these women are 913 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:47,600 Speaker 1: very much often on the lower rungs socio economically, so 914 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: they're sort of held hostage to it. Yeah. I remember 915 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,600 Speaker 1: when we did Kristen our lean in series about women 916 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,480 Speaker 1: in the workplace. We did hear from some of our 917 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,279 Speaker 1: listeners who work in the service industry, whether their waitresses 918 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,160 Speaker 1: or some other position, and they were saying, like, cool, 919 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: that's great work advice, but like, I don't live that 920 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,719 Speaker 1: kind of life, Like I don't, you know, it's not 921 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:13,440 Speaker 1: between should I have children and hiring nanny? You know, 922 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,160 Speaker 1: do I want to give up my shot at the 923 00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,160 Speaker 1: corner office. It's like, my life is very much more 924 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,439 Speaker 1: day to day than that, And honestly, I don't have 925 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: any answers to it because I remember being the hourly 926 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 1: worker not terribly long ago, and even when working conditions. Thankfully, 927 00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,400 Speaker 1: I never encountered sexual harassment in any of the places 928 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: when I worked. But for instance, with that cater waiter job, 929 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 1: like I needed that money. It was actually like pretty 930 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,720 Speaker 1: good money to make in a college town, and even 931 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: though there was a lot of humiliation that went along 932 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,880 Speaker 1: with it, I needed the paycheck. So it's I mean, what, 933 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,280 Speaker 1: what's what do you do? Well? I don't know. I 934 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,320 Speaker 1: don't know either. It's just distressing that in this country 935 00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:01,000 Speaker 1: where we have this mythology around bootstrapp ups pulling yourself 936 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,880 Speaker 1: up by your bootstraps. Uh, poor people are poor because 937 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:10,320 Speaker 1: it's their fault. Like those two things don't they don't match. 938 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,479 Speaker 1: You do have someone like a maybe a single mom 939 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,160 Speaker 1: who's waitress saying to make sure that her daughter has 940 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: what she needs. Which is that CNN story for instance, 941 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: that we cited earlier. It's about a single mom doing 942 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,600 Speaker 1: just that, um and she's working her butt off every 943 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,439 Speaker 1: day just to scrat by. And so this is what 944 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,680 Speaker 1: I mean. She's doing what all these people are saying 945 00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,880 Speaker 1: Americans should do. They should pull themselves up by their 946 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,920 Speaker 1: bootsteps and work really hard. But it's not getting her anywhere. 947 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the bright side of it is 948 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: that you do have employers who recognize this and who 949 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: are making more efforts to provide things like benefits like 950 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,920 Speaker 1: that restaurant that you mentioned um and provide living wages 951 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,360 Speaker 1: and are getting a lot of positive press attention from that. 952 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 1: And you also have more local and state governments who 953 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: are proposing and implementing living wages for these kinds of 954 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 1: hourly workers because it's just such an untenable situation, especially 955 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,600 Speaker 1: when you throw motherhood into into that mix. So I 956 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,240 Speaker 1: have a feeling that there are a lot of folks 957 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,680 Speaker 1: listening to this who can absolutely relate. You might be 958 00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,400 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast on a shift break, and we 959 00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,360 Speaker 1: want to hear from you because you're so right to 960 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,680 Speaker 1: bring up the lean in conversation, because it leaves so 961 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,720 Speaker 1: many people out who might want to get to the 962 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: point where Lenin is relevant, you know, but it's like 963 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,920 Speaker 1: we need, we need the thing before you can even 964 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,200 Speaker 1: be in a position to lean in. We we need 965 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 1: to pay our citizens, pay in in, We need to pay, 966 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,680 Speaker 1: and we need to pay the people who live in 967 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: this country a wage that they can live on. And 968 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,200 Speaker 1: one way that we can pitch in just just a 969 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,960 Speaker 1: little bit to that is tipping your servers, your barista's, 970 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 1: whoever it is. Yeah, tip them. Remember this episode and 971 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,560 Speaker 1: please tip so with that, we want to hear it 972 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,240 Speaker 1: your tips. Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com 973 01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,560 Speaker 1: is our email address. You can also tweet us at 974 01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, and we've got 975 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:21,600 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. Well, 976 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Kristen and I have two letters here about our by 977 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Philippe Dude rejection episode. This one's from a listener who 978 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 1: would like to remain anonymous. Uh, she says. First, there's 979 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,080 Speaker 1: a great blog and instagram called Feminist Tender, which started 980 01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,800 Speaker 1: to show the backlash the founder face simply because she 981 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 1: has the word feminist and nothing else on her tender account. 982 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,480 Speaker 1: She posts a lot of that backlash as well as 983 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 1: the nastiness that results when she rejects a guy's sexual advances, 984 01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,360 Speaker 1: and highly recommend you check it out. Second, well, I 985 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,760 Speaker 1: agree that most of the time, the only know a 986 01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,080 Speaker 1: guy will take for an answer is I have a boyfriend, fiance, 987 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: husband as a married woman with a wedding ring, About 988 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,760 Speaker 1: thirty to fifty of the time, guys at bars and 989 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,640 Speaker 1: other places will not leave me alone, even when I 990 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,400 Speaker 1: say I have a husband or I lift my hand. 991 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: A few months ago, I was at a party at 992 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,960 Speaker 1: a friends of a friend's house and a guy would 993 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,560 Speaker 1: not leave me alone for hours and kept trying to 994 01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,840 Speaker 1: like touch me, or compliment me or whatever, even after 995 01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,400 Speaker 1: I said I had a husband, and even after the 996 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: hostess told him I was happily married. I think it 997 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,040 Speaker 1: bothered me more than usual because it wasn't a stranger 998 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,120 Speaker 1: in a bar but a person within my social circle. 999 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,800 Speaker 1: So I guess I expected more civilized behavior on his part. 1000 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Keep up the great work, and yeah, I'm sorry anonymous 1001 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:44,439 Speaker 1: listener that that sounds rough. Well, I've got a letter 1002 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,520 Speaker 1: here from M and her tail is very reminiscent of 1003 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:54,560 Speaker 1: the Ben Shane Grace Spellman story that we shared in 1004 01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,640 Speaker 1: that Bi Phillip episode. So M rights. When I first 1005 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,040 Speaker 1: moved to a neighborhood, I met a online who lived 1006 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 1: in the area. He was very funny in person, but 1007 01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,880 Speaker 1: I wasn't interested. I told him how I felt, and 1008 01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 1: he seemed to accept it and invited me to meet 1009 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 1: his friends the following week. But as soon as I arrived, 1010 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,280 Speaker 1: I discovered that he didn't take no for an answer. 1011 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:15,800 Speaker 1: Sad Boy figured I would have to go along with it. 1012 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: When all of his friends were there, I realized that 1013 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: the only way to get him away from me without 1014 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,960 Speaker 1: making a scene was to chat up one of his friends, 1015 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: which worked. As soon as another man gave me attention, 1016 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,320 Speaker 1: he immediately stopped, unlike when I told him myself that 1017 01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't interested. Turns out, Rescue Boy and I started 1018 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,960 Speaker 1: seeing each other, and sad Boy wasn't happy. He tried 1019 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,480 Speaker 1: getting his friends to ignore me. He refused to speak 1020 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,160 Speaker 1: to me in public, and even sent me a huge 1021 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: ranting text about his wounded pride and how he never 1022 01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 1: tried to hit on me. I worked pretty hard to 1023 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,960 Speaker 1: make peace with it, but when the news about the 1024 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,600 Speaker 1: BuzzFeed writer came out she's referencing Grace Spellman listeners, the 1025 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,920 Speaker 1: sad Boy immediately put on his feminist hat and started 1026 01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:59,720 Speaker 1: criticizing the creep because hypocrisy was staggering, and I realized 1027 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,320 Speaker 1: that this is his strategy for girls. He puts on 1028 01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,320 Speaker 1: this big public display of feminism as an armor for 1029 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,080 Speaker 1: when actual women call him out on his creepy behavior. 1030 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,840 Speaker 1: I can't be sexist because I made a pro feminist 1031 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,520 Speaker 1: tweet today because of sad Boy. I really have a 1032 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,440 Speaker 1: strong side. I for self proclaimed feminist mail so often 1033 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: I see that they use it to manipulate women into 1034 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,360 Speaker 1: falling for their sad boy ruse and then revert back 1035 01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,600 Speaker 1: to the same sexism they're supposedly against. Oh what a 1036 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,880 Speaker 1: complicated web. We We've keep your letters coming, friends, I 1037 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 1: will say, Caroline. Almost as soon as we hit published 1038 01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,120 Speaker 1: on that bifleep episode, the letters came a rolling in 1039 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: mom stuff at how stuff Works is where you can 1040 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,400 Speaker 1: send us yours and for links to all of our 1041 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,800 Speaker 1: social media as well as all of our blogs, videos, 1042 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,680 Speaker 1: and podcasts, including this one with links to our sources 1043 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,160 Speaker 1: so you can learn more about the history of waitressing, 1044 01:03:52,520 --> 01:04:00,240 Speaker 1: head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. 1045 01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,800 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 1046 01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:11,320 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.