1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Guess what will what's that mango? So in twenty twelve, 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: this little farming village in Spain called Sedetto was struggling 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: and there had been this downturn in the economy. There 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: was also this massive drought and the town's homeowner association 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: was running short on cash. But for some reason, they 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: decided to spend what was left of their dues on 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: the Christmas Lottery. I guess this is kind of a 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Spanish tradition and the whole country gets into it, but 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: they bought tickets for the whole town. 10 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I've actually heard about the Christmas Lottery. I 11 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: think we wrote about it a while back, and of 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: course it being such a big deal in Spain. I 13 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: actually saw this one study where people were so optimistic 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: around the time and the Christmas Lottery, Like, even though 15 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: they know they're most likely not going to win, but 16 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: that optimism actually changes their opinions of politicians, and so 17 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: whoever's running for reelection at the time, even if they're 18 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 2: overwhelmingly disliked, they end up getting this big bounce because 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 2: of this. 20 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: Oh that's crazy. But going back to this town, they 21 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: were actually really lucky. They played. The village won nine 22 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: hundred fifty million dollars and it got split up among 23 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: the town's seventy families. Yeah. So, like there were these 24 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: unemployed construction workers, down on their luck farmers, and they 25 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: all walked away like millionaires or at the very least 26 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand hoars. But everyone except one guy, that is. 27 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: And he was this Greek gentleman who was down on 28 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: his luck. He'd moved to the town for a woman 29 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: and they'd just broken up, and I guess he just 30 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: wasn't interested in playing and losing money, so he didn't 31 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: get to cash in. 32 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: Oh man, what a bummer. So he's the only one 33 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: who didn't participate. 34 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, things ended up kind of all right 35 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: for him. Like he'd been trying to sell his barn there, 36 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: and before the lottery, no one had money to buy it. 37 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: But once they did, suddenly everyone was clamoring to purchase 38 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: his barn, so he ended up with a real estate deal. 39 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: But today's show is all about the lottery. How do 40 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: statisticians outfox the system? 41 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: And why should you care. 42 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: If you find Herbert Hoover on your lotto ticket? So 43 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: let's dive in. 44 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to part time genius. I'm 45 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: friend Mangesh how Ticketer and on the other side of 47 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: the soundproof glass, hunched over the fattest stack of Georgia 48 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: a lotto scratchers I think I've ever seen. I feel 49 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: like he might have bought all of them, Mango. But 50 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: that's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. You know the 51 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: other thing, I've noticed, this guy loves scratching these things, Mango. 52 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: Have you been watching him over here? 53 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually is using this special scratch off tool. 54 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: It's shaped like a little ice craper, but it goes 55 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: on your key ring. I think he got it off, Etsy, 56 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: but I think he has it just in case of 57 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: a lot of emergencies. 58 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: Well, you never know what's going to happen, and I 59 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 2: do wish you luck, Tristan. But the truth is, winning 60 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: the lottery is a universally accepted long shot. It's up 61 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 2: there with being struck by lightning or crushed by a meteor, 62 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: except in the case of winning the lotto, your odds 63 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: are actually much much worse, you know. Yet despite that, 64 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: despite knowing, the odds are ridiculously long millions of people 65 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: around the world will still pony up for lotteries every 66 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: single year. So with that in mind, we thought it'd 67 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: be interesting to explore the psychology behind why people play 68 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 2: the lottery, including how playing changes lives. Plus along the way, 69 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: we'll check out the stories of a few enterprising gamblers 70 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: who found pretty clever ways to game the system and 71 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: beat those odds. But before we get to that, I 72 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: know you did some digging this week into the history 73 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: of lottery, so can you fill us in just a 74 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: little bit on that before we get to anything else. 75 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, what's crazy is that lotteries are basically as 76 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: old as arithmetic, and you can actually find stories of 77 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: lotteries in the Bible. In fact, the first lotteries weren't 78 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: really about winning prize money like in the Old Testament. 79 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: There are all these references to land lotteries, and Moses 80 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: actually used one to divvy up portions of the promised 81 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: land along the Jordan River. Er think this worked similar 82 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: to how we play powerball, Like the tribes of Israel 83 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: would have each taken a differently shaped or marked stone 84 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: and dropped it into a clay pot or maybe wrapped 85 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: it up in a piece of cloth and then they 86 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: would have shaken up all the stones and drawn one 87 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: for each piece of land on the docket. But ancient 88 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: lotteries also had these other uses, Like in the sixth 89 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: century BC, Athenians chose most of their government officials through sortition, 90 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: which is actually a term for when political representatives are 91 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: selected at random by people casting or drawing lots. 92 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: Which seems like a weird fit for that to have 93 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: been in Athens. I mean, like it wasn't Athens like 94 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: the birthplace of democracy. 95 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's actually the thing, Like the Athenians actually 96 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: viewed the lottery as more democratic than elections, and they're 97 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: thinking was that, you know, politicians or wealthy citizens could 98 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: easily rig the outcomes of elections, and to them, sortians 99 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: just seemed like the safer option. So while Athens did 100 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: hold elections for a few positions, the bulk of the 101 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: appointments were simply left to chance. And the way it 102 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: worked was that any free men over the age of 103 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: eighteen was entered into a lottery, and if their name 104 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: was drawn, they would either be assigned a term as 105 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: a juror or as a member of the citizen council. 106 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: I'm curious, So, like, how exactly did they run this lottery? 107 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: It sounds like they were trying to sort through and 108 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: pick from a lot of people, right. 109 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it wasn't done powerball style. They actually had 110 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: a special device called a claritarian. It's to help ensure 111 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: that the draws were as random as possible. And it 112 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: was basically this massive stone slab and it had these 113 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: tiny slots in it for putting tokens in, and each 114 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: token identified a different person in the lottery. And then 115 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: they had this long tube connected to the side of 116 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: the slab, and when officials poured a bunch of black 117 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: and white pebbles into the tube, I mean, this is ingenious. 118 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: The pebbles would just scatter across the slab and land 119 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: on different tokens, and that indicated who would receive physicians 120 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: and who would be dismissed. And I don't know, it 121 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: kind of feels like something out of the Flintstones. 122 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: Price is right, that's pretty great, you know. Actually, lotteries 123 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: are so much more on when they include these weird 124 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: gadgets or honestly, these like overly complicated systems for choosing 125 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: their winners and just in doing your other digging. Did 126 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: you find any other early examples of weirdness like this? 127 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, I think you would have liked the 128 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: lottery style game that they played in China during the 129 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Han dynasty. It was typically played on I guess a 130 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: white ticket and players would select like a series of 131 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: numbers of characters, and if their picks were chosen in 132 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the random drawing, then they'd be senter prize. But this 133 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: is where it gets special, right, because how do you 134 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 1: communicate the winning numbers when all your players are spread 135 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: out across a bunch of rural villages? 136 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: All right, well, we're talking ancient China, So I'm going 137 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 2: to go with I don't know, like a fireworks display 138 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 2: or something. 139 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that would be so fun, right to watch 140 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: these fireworks sort of reveal the answers. But fireworks were 141 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: still a few centuries away at this point, so instead, 142 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: these Chinese governments used birds to deliver the results to villages, 143 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: Like they had a whole fleet of carrier pigeons that 144 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: would carry the results from village to village, and then 145 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: they'd also collect the winning tickets along the way. And 146 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: in fact, this is actually where the game got its 147 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: original name, bige Po I know I'm pronouncing that wrong, 148 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: but roughly translated, it's called a white pigeon ticket. 149 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: I mean, that's pretty cool. So do people still play 150 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: this white pigeon ticket game today? 151 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: They do, except now the game has been rebranded as Keino. 152 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: They've I guess stripped the pigeons out of the game, 153 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: which feels like a major loss to me. 154 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: That's a huge mistake. 155 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Quino is still a huge money maker for casinos. 156 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: Even two thousand years ago, the game was this big 157 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: financial windfall for China. It was supposedly invented by a 158 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: warlord who's named Chung Lun. He'd been looking for a 159 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: way to get citizens to help fund his army, and 160 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: selling those white pigeon tickets proved a great way to 161 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: do just that. Pretty soon the game was being used 162 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: to fund not just the military, but all sorts of 163 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: other public works projects, and in fact, one version of 164 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: the game supposedly helped pay for the Great Wall of China. 165 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: You know, that was one of the surprising things as 166 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: we were doing our research for this week, was realizing 167 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: how many of these huge projects were funded by lotteries. 168 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: I was actually reading just recently about colonial America and 169 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: that it was largely built using revenue from lotteries. Like 170 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: apparently lotteries had made their way to America shores. I 171 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: think it was back in the sixteenth century. And this 172 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: was really around the same time that they were catching 173 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: on in Europe. So I guess in places like Italy 174 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: and France and England, they'd all borrowed a page from 175 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: China's playbook because they realized that lotteries were a smart 176 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: way to raise money for these various civic projects. And 177 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: so it's kind of crazy how early it was being 178 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: used in America too. You look back around sixteen twelve, 179 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: you had the Virginia Company of London that actually held 180 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: a lottery to support the struggling Jamestown colony and really 181 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: used it to save the settlers there from starvation. But 182 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: it was used in these other pitole moments too, like 183 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: you know, seventeen seventy six you had the Constitutional Congress 184 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: holding a lottery to finance soldiers for the Revolutionary Wars 185 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: or and then even after the war was won, the 186 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: New States relied on these lotteries for much more of 187 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: their revenue. And you know, after all, unfair taxation had 188 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: been a big part of the war. So you can 189 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: see why this alternative way to raise money was so 190 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: appealing to politicians. It was, you know, just so much 191 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: easier than creating a new tax. 192 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny because people often refer to the 193 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: lottery as, I don't know, like a voluntary tax. 194 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, that's actually how one of the 195 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: founding fathers felt about lotteries too. And I'm talking about 196 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson here, and he wrote a good bit about it. 197 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: So once he wrote about it, he said, far from 198 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: being immoral, they are indispensable to the existence of man. 199 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: Their attacks laid on the willing only. Of course, Jefferson 200 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: was more than a little bit biased in this situation. 201 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: I mean that quote comes from a letter that he 202 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: was writing to the Virginia legislature. And he was writing 203 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 2: this because he was looking for permission to hold his 204 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: own lottery. And I was actually looking into why he 205 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: was doing this, and the whole reason he wanted to 206 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: do it was to pay off some of his debts. 207 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: It's pretty pretty fun. 208 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. 209 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, But you know what's weird is that there's this 210 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: whole idea that lotteries are really kind of this voluntary tax, right, Like, 211 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: it's only a tax if you're willing to buy in. 212 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: But there's actually pretty strong evidence that suggests that longtime 213 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 2: lotto players are induced to play a game that maybe 214 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 2: they otherwise wouldn't. 215 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: So explain that a little like, what do you mean 216 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: by that? 217 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: All right, Well, it might be helpful just to give 218 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: a little bit of background on who's playing the lottery. 219 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: So I was looking at this information from Gallup, and 220 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: it was showing that nearly half of all US adults 221 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 2: have played a state lottery at least once in their lives. 222 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: That's not that surprising. But then if you look a 223 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: little bit closer, the vast majority of those tickets are 224 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: bought by just twenty percent of the population, And as 225 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: you might guess, most of those players who make up 226 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: that twenty percent are actually among the poorest in the country. 227 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: In fact, according to a study from Duke this was 228 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: done back in the nineteen eighties, the poorest third of 229 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: American households by roughly half of the lottery tickets that 230 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: are sold. There's more recent data, and this is what's 231 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: even more disturbing, is that on average, households that make 232 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: less than twelve thousand dollars a year spend a full 233 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: five percent of their incomes on lotteries. Five percent of 234 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: their incomes on lotteries. It's pretty tragic to see that. 235 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: That's horrifying. So, I mean, there are so many things 236 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: that work against the poor. Like I was reading about 237 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was Chicago, but it was about 238 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: parking tickets, where if you get a ticket and you 239 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: don't pay in time, the price automatically skyrockets, and if 240 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: you can't pay that, they boot your car or take 241 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: away your license, which then makes it harder to get 242 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: to your job to pay that ticket. And that's actually 243 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: been driving a ton of bankruptcies in the city. I mean, 244 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: I guess if you're desperate and you're looking for a 245 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: fast fix for your financial troubles, like playing the lottery 246 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: seems like the quickest way out. At least that's how 247 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: I think about it. But it sounds like you're saying 248 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: it's more than that, Like these people are actually being 249 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: misled or maybe duped or something. 250 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, this actually goes back to a 251 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight study. You like the number of 252 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: studies I'm quoting today. I'm just breathed on. All these 253 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: studies came armed with them. But this was a group 254 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: of behavioral economists there at Carnegie Mellon, and so what 255 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: they were looking to is, is it really like the 256 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: reason why poor people are so much more likely to 257 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: play the lottery than those who are better off? And 258 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: what they found was that a lot of the desire 259 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: that drives these low income players isn't so much from 260 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: being poor as it is from feeling poor. So here's 261 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 2: how the studies authors broke down their findings. It says 262 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: in experiment one, participants were more likely to purchase lottery 263 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: tickets when they were primed to perceive that their own 264 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: income was low relative to the implicit standard. And then 265 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: an experiment too, participants purchased more lottery tickets when they 266 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 2: considered non lottery situations in which rich people or poor 267 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: people receive advantages, implicitly highlighting the fact that everyone has 268 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: an equal chance of winning the lottery. 269 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: So basically, when you make people feel poor, they play 270 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: the lottery more. And when they feel like it's equal like, 271 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: then they want to put money on it because they 272 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: feel like it's a fair game. I mean, it's kind 273 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: of heartbreaking when you think about how low their chances 274 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: of winning actually are though. 275 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I actually found yet another study, and 276 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: this comes from the late eighties. 277 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: Justly have studies. 278 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 2: I'm coming with, so many of them have almost as 279 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: many studies as Tristan has scratch off tickets. Not quite anyway, 280 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: this one's a good one too. So this was also 281 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: in the late eighties, and the researchers discovered that lottery 282 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: ticket sales in California, they rise along with the poverty rate, 283 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: but movie ticket sales actually don't. And so what that 284 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: says is that people don't just play the lottery for fun. 285 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: They're playing it out of desperation. So, you know, all 286 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: too often the lottery becomes a way for states to 287 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: shift the cost of government services from, you know, from 288 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: the wealthier citizens onto honestly like the most hopeless ones. 289 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: All right, Well, now that you've got us all righteously 290 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: indignant about the lottery, here's what I want to talk about. 291 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: Nerdy geniuses who out fox the system and made a 292 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: lot of payout big time. 293 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: All right, that sounds like a good idea. But before 294 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: we do that, let's take a quick break. You're listening 295 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: to part time genius. So we're talking about some of 296 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: the most brazen lottery scams in history. All right, mego, 297 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: So let's live vicariously for a minute through some of 298 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: these lotto legends. So who do you want to talk about? First? 299 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: Okay? So first I've got to tell you about Mohen 300 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: sivas the He is this MIT trained statistician who actually 301 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: found a flaw in a certain scratch off game from 302 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: the Ontario Lottery and this effectively allowed him to predict 303 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: winning cards about ninety percent. 304 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: Of the time. Oh wow, So what's his story? 305 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: So Mowen wasn't really interested in playing the lotto, much 306 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: less exploiting it. But one day, and this was back 307 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, he found some old scratch 308 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: offs on his desks that have been part of this 309 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: gag gift I guess someone gave him, and on a whim, 310 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: he scratched off one and won three dollars. So he's 311 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: walking to cash in his ticket on his lunch break, 312 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: and as he's thinking about it, he started thinking about 313 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: how scratch offs must be made right, and it dawned 314 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: on him that the tickets are obviously mass produced, which 315 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: means that a computer program must be involved in laying 316 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: out the numbers on each ticket. 317 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that, But it's all random, isn't it. 318 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: Like that's probably another reason ticket makers use a computer, 319 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: because there's no way a human could actually design that 320 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: many tickets and still keep the numbering completely random, right, Sure? 321 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: But Moan realized that the computers can't be generating truly 322 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: random numbers either. Like if they were, though, I mean, 323 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: the lottery company had no control over the actual number 324 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: of winning tickets produced, and if that were the case, 325 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: it would mean that some ticket packets would have very 326 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: few winners or maybe even none at all. And obviously 327 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: it would be tough to get retailers and also players 328 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: to keep buying those tickets if so many of those 329 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: cards were duds. 330 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. So if the tickets like they 331 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: can kind of have to have the illusion of randomness 332 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: while actually being incredibly ordered beneath the surface, is that 333 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: what you're saying exactly? 334 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: And once Moan figured this out, he decided to try 335 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: and crack the algorithm that generated all those numbers, you know, 336 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: just for fun, because he was from MIT and a statistician, right, 337 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: so he sat down to study this one tic TAC 338 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: toe scratch off game he'd been playing, and after just 339 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: a few hours he discovered that the visible numbers on 340 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: the ticket actually dictated which digits were hidden under the 341 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: latex coding. So basically, every ticket had like eight tic 342 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: tac toe game boards on it, and each board would 343 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: contain some visible numbers. But if you look to see 344 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: how many times those numbers repeated on the card, and 345 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: mostly it was if a number was a singleton and 346 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: not repeating, you could actually tell which cards were winners, 347 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: and the prize money could be anywhere between three dollars 348 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars. 349 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I mean, I know it all sounds complicated, 350 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: But what I find so fascinating about this is, as 351 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: you're saying, Mohen basically found a way to determine if 352 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: a ticket was a winner without having to scratch anything off, right, 353 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: And you're saying he got this trick to work like 354 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: ninety percent of the time, the guy must have made 355 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 2: a fortune. 356 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: So that's the weirdest part. Moon really did this for 357 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: the love of math and not money. In fact, once 358 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: he was sure his technique worked, he actually contacted the 359 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Ontario Lottery Gaming Corporation and told him about the flaw 360 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: he'd found. And it's funny because he told NPR that 361 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: he was playing telephone tag with lottery, and when they 362 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: finally got to talk to one another, they kind of 363 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: didn't believe him. So he sent them twenty unscratched cards 364 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: and separated them into what he thought would be winning 365 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: cards and duds. And when they scratched them off and 366 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: realized he predicted correctly, that's when they called him back. 367 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: Oh man, I bet he felt pretty awesome. That's pretty wild. 368 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he later discovered the problem wasn't exclusive 369 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: to Ontario. I mean, it kind of makes sense, right. 370 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: It turned out the same trick was also being employed 371 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: in Colorado, though when he analyzed those cards, he could 372 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: only figure him out with seventy percent accuracy. 373 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: And that's still pretty impressive. I mean, you know, as 374 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: nice as it was for Mowen to come clean about 375 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: his discovery, I feel like that's certainly not how most 376 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: attempts to game the lottery turnout. And I was just 377 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: looking at some other cases, you know, if you take 378 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: the case of Jerry and Marge Selby, for instance, and 379 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: this comes from this great story by Jason FAGONI and 380 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 2: we actually had Jason on the program earlier this year 381 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: to talk about his book. It was called The Woman 382 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 2: Who Smashed Codes. 383 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that was honestly one of my favorite episodes. 384 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: Is so fascinating, and my mom just bought that book 385 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: because she loved Jason so much. But tell me about 386 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: the Selby's. 387 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: All right, So they're from Michigan and they were basically 388 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 2: among the first players to find a flaw in a 389 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: state lottery game. The game was called Windfall, and this 390 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: was back in two thousand and three, and it came 391 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: down to this unique quirk and wind falls rules, namely, 392 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: whenever the jackpot would rise to roughly two million dollars 393 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: or so without anybody winning it, the payoffs for smaller 394 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: prizes increased dramatically. So basically, if a player waited until 395 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: this so called roll down period, which typically lasted for 396 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: a few days every three months or so, they would 397 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: stay to win more than they lost. Then. Of course, 398 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: this is on average, and so if they were to 399 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: buy an especially high number of tickets during that rolldown, 400 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: say like you know, one hundred thousand dollars worth, then 401 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: they would be practically guaranteed to turn a ten to 402 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: fifteen percent profit. 403 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: Okay, So the more tickets a player buys during the 404 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: special period, the more money they're kind of assured to win. 405 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: So I'm curious how many tickets did Jerry and March 406 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: go in on. 407 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 2: It was unbelievable, the number of tickets. I mean, they 408 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,479 Speaker 2: basically treated Windfall like their retirement plan, and they played 409 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: for the better part of a decade. In fact, Michigan 410 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: retired the game, only for Massachusetts to roll out their 411 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: own versions soon after, and so the Selby's actually took 412 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: their ticket buying operation on the road. What they would 413 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: do is they just pile into their truck, they'd drive 414 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: the twelve hours or so to Massachusetts, and then they'd 415 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: set up shop in two separate convenience stores, printing ream 416 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: after ream of tickets for honestly, for hours at a time. 417 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: So I've been stuck in bodegos behind people playing the lotto, 418 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: and it's so frustrating, Like you can be there for 419 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: like ten minutes or fifteen minutes. It can take forever 420 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: when you're in a rush. But how many tickets are 421 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: we actually talking about here? 422 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: You are not going to believe this. So, at the 423 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: height of their scheme. The couple was spending over six 424 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars on a single play of Windfall. Keep 425 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: this in mind, we're talking two dollars a pop here, 426 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 2: so that means they had more than three hundred thousand 427 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 2: tickets that week. 428 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: That's insane. So I'm always nervous when I see people 429 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: gambling and gambling with such ridiculous amounts of money, like, 430 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm so afraid they're gonna lose it. And you know, 431 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: my favorite thing to do in Las Vegas is to 432 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: go up to an ATM and act like I've won 433 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: when it spits out cash, because I do not want 434 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: to get ripped off by machines. But obviously these people 435 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: are made of much stronger stuff than I am. So 436 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: how much did they end up making? 437 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: Well, the Selby's actually didn't play alone, at least not 438 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: the whole time. There was one point where they started 439 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: this company called GS Investment Strategies. I love that that's 440 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 2: the name of their company for some reason, firm I know. 441 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: So basically, it was a betting group that consisted of 442 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: the Selby's and their extended family and friends. And just 443 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: looking at the you know the list of people in 444 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: this it's pretty funny. It included a state trooper, a 445 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 2: parole officer, three lawyers, among all these others that were playing, 446 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: and at their final tally, they managed to get almost 447 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: eight million dollars. It was just shy of eight million 448 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: dollars before taxes, and of course all that was divvied 449 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: up among the company's twenty five players. So really not 450 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: a bad haul for nine years of printing out these 451 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 2: slips of paper. But you know it, actually it was 452 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 2: a little bit short of what this small group of 453 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: MIT students managed to win. And this was off the 454 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 2: very same game. This was between two thousand and four 455 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: and twenty ten. The students made actually just a little 456 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 2: bit over eight million dollars in profit. 457 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: So I've still kind of blown away that this happened. 458 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: I mean, like, why didn't the lottery commissions of these 459 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: states wise up to what was happening. You've got these 460 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: multiple groups of people pulling off the same scheme for 461 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: like a decade and obviously buying massive amounts of tickets. 462 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, this may be the weirdest part of 463 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: all of this is that somebody did notice, and this 464 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: was in twenty twelve. There was an investigation into the 465 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: Windfall Game, and that investigation revealed that the Massachusetts Lottery 466 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: had known all about the MIT students and the Selby's 467 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: per years. What has actually done nothing to stop them. Apparently, 468 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: lottery officials had been the rules so that the high 469 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 2: stakes players could buy hundreds of thousands of tickets because 470 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: you know, the added revenue and the success this brought 471 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: to the lottery and of course by extension to the state, 472 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: they just considered it worth it. But you know, in 473 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: the end, even though none of this was technically illegal, 474 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: the state Treasurer who oversees the lottery, they officially shut 475 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 2: down the wind Fall Game in twenty twelve, and of 476 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 2: course this put an end to the player's long winning 477 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: streak at that point. 478 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean they made eight million dollars on it, 479 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: so it's not that bad. 480 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is saying. 481 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: That they figure this out, but it also seems to 482 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: suggest that, like once you find a game that's beatable, 483 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: you need lots of money to win, right, Like these 484 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: MIT students, the Selby's, they all had the resources to 485 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: buy up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of tickets, 486 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: which is what allowed them to win as often as 487 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: they did. Meanwhile, you know, the people who couldn't afford 488 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: enough tickets to gain that statistical advantage, they're kind of 489 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: shut out. And not only that, but it's really the 490 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: poor folks money that's going to all the payouts. You 491 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: know that said, I mean, I don't want to give 492 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: the impression that lotteries are zero sum game for society, 493 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: Like like we were saying at the top of the show. 494 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: You know, countries have been putting lottery revenue to good 495 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: use for centuries, and that's still true today. So even 496 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: if you feel squeamish about who these games might be targeting, 497 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: like I do, it's still worth taking a look at 498 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: the benefits that come from them. 499 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. But but before we get 500 00:23:46,880 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: to that, let's take one more quick break. All right, Mango, 501 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: So cluisen, where exactly does all this lottery money go? 502 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: Well, first, let's clarify how much money we're talking about here. 503 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: So when you actually add up all the revenue from 504 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: the modern US lottery industry, all the sales you know, 505 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: from cash drawings, the instant win scratch offs, video lottery games, 506 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: keino like, you wind up with a yearly total of 507 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: eighty billion dollars. 508 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's stunning. 509 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: And just to put that in perspective, movie ticket sales 510 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: in the US add up to only about eleven billion 511 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: dollars annually. In fact, that eighty billion is more than 512 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: American spend every year, not only on movie tickets, but 513 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: also on sports tickets, books, video games, music sales, all 514 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: that combined. 515 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: That's crazy, all right. So obviously we love to gamble, 516 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: and that must mean that we're getting something out of 517 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: the deal, right though, So how much of that eighty 518 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: billion ends up in the player's pockets. 519 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: It's way more than you think. Like, I was actually 520 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: surprised to hear this, but over fifty billion of that 521 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: tot goes to players in the former prizes. 522 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that. 523 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And then another eight billion is used to cover 524 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: the cost of the lotteries themselves, So like this is 525 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: the boring stuff like printing, advertising, design, employee salaries, vendor fees. 526 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: But the remaining twenty two billion, which you know is 527 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: still a ton of money, is funneled into public programs, 528 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: and that includes everything from education and land conservation to 529 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: senior assistants and even pension funds. 530 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 2: Well, and obviously different states will claim different amounts of 531 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: that profit depending on their individual sales numbers, but it's 532 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: up to each state to decide what to do with 533 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 2: their profits. 534 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So there are currently lotteries and forty 535 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: seven different US jurisdictions, which includes forty four states plus 536 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: dc is on their Puerto Rico the virgin Islands, and 537 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: they each get to use their money for whatever they want. 538 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: So education budgets are probably the most popular choice, Like 539 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: the Virginia lottery, for example, it actually puts all of 540 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: its profits into a K to twelve education fund, and 541 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: last year our lottery right here in Georgia actually gave 542 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: out a billion dollars in profits to education programs compared 543 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: to the two point seven billion it gave out in 544 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: prizes to players. 545 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: Wow, Army, you know, there's no denying that state run 546 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: lotteries can deliver pretty big benefits to their citizens, at 547 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: least generally speaking, and again, it's easy to see why 548 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 2: most politicians would want to keep that easy money flowing 549 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: through their states. 550 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: Sure, But on a different note, one of the things 551 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: that's really fun to hear about is the individual lottery 552 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: winners who actually share their wealth. And I was reading 553 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: about this guy named John Coody who split a three 554 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty million dollar payout with six other IT specialists, 555 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: and this was back in twenty eleven. 556 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 2: I mean, that sounds nice, but you're saying seven IT 557 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: guys won that jack. But I feel like that has 558 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 2: to be some kind of fix, like with the MIT students, right. 559 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's possible, but considering what Coody did 560 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: with his money, like, I wouldn't hold it against him. 561 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: He and his wife actually decided to use a good 562 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: chunk of their winnings to build this massive water park 563 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: the community. And this was in Green Island, New York. 564 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: They called it Spray Park, and it's dedicated to Coody's parents, 565 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: who apparently used to take their kids into this I 566 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: guess outdated water park in the community, and that's the 567 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: one he helped replace. 568 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 2: That's pretty sweet, and I do love these kinds of stories. 569 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 2: I was actually reading about another lot of winning couple. 570 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 2: They were named Alan and Violet Large, and they went 571 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: about eleven million dollars back in twenty ten, and they 572 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 2: ended up giving away ninety eight percent of it within 573 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: the first year. Is that not crazy? 574 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, ninety eight percent is a lot of percent. 575 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: So where did that money go? 576 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: Well, according to an article in the Toronto Star, the 577 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: couple donated nearly all of their winnings to the Red Cross, 578 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: to their local churches, fire departments, and even the hospitals 579 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 2: where Violet had undergone cancer treatment. And of course, while 580 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: parting with that much loud is painful for you know, 581 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: so many of us to even think about, it was 582 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: apparently pretty easy for the Larges. There was this interview 583 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: I was looking at where Violet told reporters what you've 584 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: never had, you never miss I mean. 585 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: It really is amazing to see people react to newfound 586 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: wealth so humbly like that. Speaking of humility, did you 587 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: hear about this homeless guy in Illinois who won fifty 588 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: thousand dollars on a scratcher? No, apparently he'd lived in 589 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: a tent in a homeless community for like thirty five 590 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: years at this point, and that's when he won the money. 591 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: But rather than leave his friends for a comfy home 592 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: of his own, he decided to stay right where he was. 593 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 2: Wait, so he just stayed in his tent. 594 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. He told reporters that he planned to use the 595 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: money for an overdue trip to the dentist, and he 596 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: also wanted to use some of the money to visit 597 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: his son. But then he gave one hundred dollars to 598 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: every homeless person he knew, and I'm guessing he knew 599 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: a lot of them. 600 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: Wow. All right, so this is kind of a tangent, 601 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: but you made me think of it when you brought 602 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 2: up scratchers again. And we've been talking about the bright 603 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: side of playing the lottery throughout this segment. But there's 604 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: actually a way to get enjoyment from lotteries without playing them, 605 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: and the best part is it won't cost you a dime. 606 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: So what's the catch, Actually, there's no catch. All you 607 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: have to do is become a latologist. If by some 608 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: chance you don't already know what a litologist is, I 609 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: can tell you that it's a person who collects lottery tickets. 610 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: So how does that cost no money? 611 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: Well, because it's a collecting hobby, it's not a gambling hobby. 612 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: So most litologists don't collect fresh or unused scratch cards. 613 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: They're actually collecting losing tickets or maybe even winners tickets 614 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: that have already been redeemed by the customers. 615 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: So how many litologists are there? I feel like you 616 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: keep saying they, but to me it feels like one 617 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: person in his bearent's basement. 618 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: Well, according to the Global Lottery Collectors Society. You may 619 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: not have been familiar with the Global Lottery Collectors Society, 620 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: there was a group of a few hundred passionate collectors 621 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: who trade and catalog all these various scratch off games 622 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: released in the US. And this one guy in particular, 623 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: his name is Arthur Rain, and he has one of 624 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: the biggest collections in the world. He's got over fifty 625 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: seven thousand different scratchers in his collection. 626 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: So that's pretty crazy. But I did notice you said 627 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: one of the biggest, So what's that mean exact. 628 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 2: Well, apparently there are one or two other people in 629 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: the society with bigger collections, which I know is pretty 630 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: hard to believe. 631 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, now, is there a holy grail for littologists? Like, 632 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: is there one special scratch off that everyone would spend 633 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: money on? 634 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, there definitely is. According to Rain, the most sought 635 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 2: after scratcher is this nineteen seventy six card and it 636 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 2: was from Illinois and it has Herbert Hoover's picture on it. 637 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: Apparently it was part of a promotion where each ticket 638 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: featured a different president, and once the game was over, 639 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: the lottery picked one president, and anybody who submitted a 640 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 2: losing ticket with that president's face on it would be 641 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: entered to win a consolation prize. Well, Herbert Hoover ended 642 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: up as the lucky President, and because so many players 643 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: mailed him in, there aren't many Hoovers left in circulation. 644 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 2: In fact, if you're lucky to find one of the 645 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: three or four copies known to exist and you want 646 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: to add it to your collection, it'll set you back 647 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: about five hundred bucks to do so. 648 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: I love that it's only worth five hundred dollars, but 649 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: I mean it is a forty year old losing lottery ticket. Yeah, 650 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: but I am curious, though, if the Hoover card is 651 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: this exception to the rule, how are littologists getting the 652 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: bulk of their collections. I mean, I get that they 653 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: trade with each other, but they've got to start out 654 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: with something to trade, right. 655 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course that's true. I mean, so many collectors 656 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: actually have deals with a whole network of stores, so 657 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: they'll you know, make their rounds once a week or 658 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: so and they'll collect all the used tickets that a 659 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: store's customers just left behind. 660 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: It's such a specific hobby. It amazing. 661 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: You know. 662 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of our friend Sarah, who 663 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: used to find business cards on sidewalks or I guess 664 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: that convention floors and collect them. And I think her 665 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: big idea was that someday she was going to throw 666 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: a party for all these people who wanted a network 667 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: and get their name out there. 668 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: But I mean it's a great idea. 669 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: I know, I think it's great. Like I love to 670 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: I should start leaving my business card places, but at 671 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: least like a business card has value. I can't imagine 672 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: keeping fifty thousand of anything in my house. You know, 673 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: where do you even find the room for that? 674 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's what's funny about I read this interview with 675 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: Rain from Atlas Obscura. In it, he says, I gotta 676 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: beg my wife every day not to throw me out 677 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: of the house. 678 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: So I mean, i'd say the fact that it hasn't 679 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: happened already makes them pretty lucky. And speaking of lucky, 680 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: what do you say we get a little fact off going. 681 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: I've got a can't lose feeling today. 682 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: All right, well, let's see what you got. 683 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: So well, did you know that pigeons love to gamble? 684 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: According to scientific American scientists at the University of Kentucky 685 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: set up these Avian gambling parlors where pigeons could peck 686 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: at one symbol and reliably get a single food pellet, 687 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: and this happened every single time. Or they had the 688 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: option to peck at a second symbol, and this was 689 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: a wild card, and most of the times they'd get nothing, 690 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: but every once in a while they'd hit the jackpot 691 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: and they'd get ten food pellets. But that big pay 692 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: was actually way too much for them to resist. So 693 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: whenever they were given a choice, the pigeons chose to gamble. 694 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: And this was more than eighty percent at a time, 695 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: even though the winnings were way less when you average. 696 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 2: Them out, that's pretty good, all right. Well, in Europe 697 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: and particularly Italy, there's a tradition where the lottery is 698 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 2: drawn by blindfolded kids, which seems like kind of a 699 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: weird tradition. And the idea here is that children are innocent, 700 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: so this is a game you can supposedly trust. Although 701 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: I feel like there have been so many studies showing 702 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: that children are not at all honest on this kind 703 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: of thing. But anyway, but this was before things were automated, 704 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 2: back in the two thousands, and as it turns out, 705 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: not surprisingly, the kids were part of a massive scam. 706 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: They'd actually been trained to feel for these roughed up 707 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 2: lottery balls, and when the journalists who broke the scandal 708 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: started looking into this, they found that the kids were 709 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: being paid in toys. 710 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: So I love the idea that like you can actually 711 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: fix a multimillion lottery with I don't know, like some 712 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: is in an erector set. 713 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 2: It's politics, that's all it. 714 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: Tics Did you realize that it's way harder to win 715 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: McDonald's monopoly game than it is to win actual lottery 716 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: And apparently the odds of winning power Ball are one 717 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: in one hundred and seventy five million, So already you're 718 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: more likely to die on the way to playing a 719 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: lot of than you are to winning it. But that 720 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: one in one hundred and seventy five million is great 721 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: odds compared to the odds of finding a boardwalk piece, 722 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: which is one in six hundred million. And when you 723 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: factor in also finding a park place, your odds of 724 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: winning go down to one in three billion, isn't that 725 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: the same? 726 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty great, all right. Well, in nineteen twelve, 727 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 2: Popular Mechanics reported that a hospital in Paris had held 728 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: a lottery, but they actually were giving out something a 729 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: little different than money. They were giving out babies, Like 730 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: if you won, you won a baby, which is I 731 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: don't know. It feels like kind of a dubious prize 732 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: for a lot of people, but it's the only time 733 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 2: we know of that this has happened. But the hospital 734 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 2: they not only consulted authorities, but they actually made sure 735 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: to research whether a winning was actually good to be 736 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 2: foster parents before they handed them a baby. 737 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: I guess that sounds smart. So this feels like such luck. 738 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: But when Zimbabwe ran a lottery in two thousand, the 739 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: dictator and president of Zimbabwe at the time, Robert Mugabe, 740 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: just happened to win it, like he won the grand 741 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: prize of one hundred thousand dollars in the state run lottery. 742 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: And it's kind of amazing how that happened. 743 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, just such a lucky guy, I guess. All right, 744 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 2: all right, so I've got one more fun one. So 745 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 2: you remember how there were all those voltswaggon commercials that 746 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: were trying to gamify good behavior a while back, right, yeah, 747 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 2: in the two thousands. Yeah, yeah, like they you know, 748 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 2: they made those trash cans that would blink and flash 749 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: whenever you put your litter in them, and I remember 750 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: one of the others they had those musical steps that 751 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 2: made sounds when you use them instead of the elevator, 752 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: And it was all these little bits of joy that 753 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 2: were there to encourage you to do good things, either 754 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 2: for you or for society. One of the ideas that 755 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 2: actually got implemented in Sweden was when they set up 756 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 2: the lottery at traffic lights. So you know when you 757 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 2: run a red light, there are all these places where cameras 758 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 2: will catch you and then send you a ticket and 759 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 2: the mail. Well, well they actually turn that into a 760 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: lottery for good drivers. So whenever you slowed down and stopped, 761 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: you were automatically put into a lottery, and then the 762 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: winners were paid out with money that came from speeding fines. 763 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 2: Isn't that a great idea? 764 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: I love it, you know, for all my hubers going 765 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: into this, I do think you get to walk away 766 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: with the prize this week. 767 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 2: Well, Thank you very much, and I'm sure we forgot 768 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 2: some great facts about lotteries over the years and we 769 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 2: would love to hear those from. You can always email 770 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 2: us part Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com. You can 771 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 2: also call us on our twenty four to seven fact 772 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: hotline that's eight six six pt Genius, or as always, 773 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 2: you can hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. But 774 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 2: thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening. Part 775 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 2: Time Genius is a product of How Stuff Works and 776 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do the 777 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 2: important things we couldn't even begin to understand. 778 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: Christan McNeil does the editing thing. 779 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 2: Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy 780 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 2: mixy sound thing. 781 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: Jerry Roland does the exact producer thing. 782 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 2: Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the research 783 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams and Eves. 784 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves. 785 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, 786 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 2: And if you really really like what you've heard, maybe 787 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 2: you could leave a good review for us. Do we 788 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 2: forget Jason Jason who