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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking about house flipping, achieving fire,

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Speaker 1: and staying frugal with Carl Jensen. So today we're talking

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Speaker 1: with Carl Jensen, who is known on the interwebs as

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Speaker 1: Mr hundred, which we'll get to here in a little

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Speaker 1: bit where the name came from, why he chose the

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Speaker 1: Mr Moniker. But Carl, he found himself trapped in a

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Speaker 1: cubicle as a software developer nearly nine years ago, and

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Speaker 1: he set off on a journey to achieve the status

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Speaker 1: of financially independent and retired early. He he has since

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Speaker 1: achieved fire and continues to be incredibly productive and real

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Speaker 1: estate with his living flips, all while pursuing a very

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Speaker 1: into shoal life in long Mont, Colorado. And an important

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Speaker 1: note too, is that Carl is a good friend of

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Speaker 1: ours who we met years ago. Uh And after spending

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Speaker 1: some more time together recently at a personal finance conference,

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Speaker 1: we realized we were overdue in having him come on

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Speaker 1: the show as a guest. Uh. So, Carl, thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining us. So, Matt, I am so happy to

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Speaker 1: be here. This doesn't happen to be soft hundred, is it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I wish Okay, how about we We kind have reached

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Speaker 1: out to you five years from now, Carl, but we

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Speaker 1: just we decided to do it now, and it might

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Speaker 1: be like seven years from now to well, once I

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Speaker 1: get to seven episodes a week, it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: much quicker Okay, I reserve show hundred. If you don't

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Speaker 1: have me out very angry. No, we will bring you on.

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Speaker 1: We we all will put that in the show notes

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Speaker 1: or in our little topics, uh document that we have

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Speaker 1: now what we'll slot you in for that episode already.

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Speaker 1: And Carl, as you know, by the way our listeners

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Speaker 1: let them in. Carl and I nerd out, and Matt

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Speaker 1: and I nerd out on beer quite a bit. Carl,

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Speaker 1: you love beer just as much as we do. And so,

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Speaker 1: as you know, we drink a crap be on every episode.

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Speaker 1: It's something that we're splurging on in here now while

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Speaker 1: saving and investing for the future. Yeah, what's your craft

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Speaker 1: beer equivalent? What do you support? John? Oh? Can I

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Speaker 1: have multiple? I'm sorry, I'm going to be a pain

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Speaker 1: in the but can I drop Okay, So the things

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Speaker 1: that I use in my day to day life provide

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Speaker 1: a lot of value. Like if I don't have a

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Speaker 1: good phone or a good laptop, if those things fail me,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna make my life miserable. So I spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of money on a good phone. I try to

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Speaker 1: keep them for four years. My computer is an Apple MacBook.

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Speaker 1: I bought that. It's still going strong, It's still gets

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Speaker 1: security updates, and I think it has one more OS update.

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Speaker 1: I pet do those things. If my computer creps out,

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Speaker 1: that's bad, So I'm not afraid to spend money there.

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Speaker 1: My other two things are tools. I do a lot

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Speaker 1: of work around the house. Yeah. Yeah, it's similar to

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Speaker 1: my phone or my computer. If my drill fails or

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Speaker 1: my battery starts on fire or something like that, my

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Speaker 1: my day is gonna be mad, and I'm my day

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Speaker 1: is going to be bad, and I will be mad

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be sent back. So I spend good

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Speaker 1: money on tools. None of that. Well, there's a chain

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Speaker 1: that I won't mention. But if you know anything about tools,

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Speaker 1: you know what you're what I'm talking about. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing is, and I kind of feel bad about

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Speaker 1: saying this because I'm a pretty frugal guy, but I

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Speaker 1: have owned an expensive car. It was an accurate NSX.

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Speaker 1: I have since gotten rid of it and I sold

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Speaker 1: it for exactly what I bought it for. But sometime

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Speaker 1: in the next twelve to eighteen months, I will probably

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Speaker 1: buy a brand new Tesla, which will be the most

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Speaker 1: expensive car I've ever bought, the most expensive thing I've

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Speaker 1: ever bought besides the house. So I feel free to judge.

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Speaker 1: It's especially ridiculous since I don't have much of anywhere

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Speaker 1: to drive. I take my bike and walk. But when

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Speaker 1: I do do a road trip, it'll be nice to

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Speaker 1: have a nice car as opposed to the old, very

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Speaker 1: old ones that we have. Now. That's definitely yeah. When

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Speaker 1: you have that Tesla, you can definitely count that as

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Speaker 1: your as your splurge, but definitely gonna be worth it.

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Speaker 1: And I'm toaly with you that when it comes to tools, uh,

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk actually more later on the show

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Speaker 1: about your living flips and just a lot of the

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Speaker 1: work that you're doing. But before we get to that, man,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about fire, and so let's just

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Speaker 1: broadly ask you here, like what led you down that

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Speaker 1: financial independence retire early rabbit hole? Initially? Can you share

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Speaker 1: something about that. Yeah. So I was a software developer

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Speaker 1: from medical device. It was pretty stressful. If I messed

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Speaker 1: up the code, I could kill someone. So I always yeah,

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Speaker 1: no kicking right stake. I never ever did that, but

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Speaker 1: I always had this cloud hanging over my head. I

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Speaker 1: would think to myself, what happens if I introduced an

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Speaker 1: air into the code, like yesterday or even four years ago,

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Speaker 1: that suddenly surfaces that interest someone. My life is going

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Speaker 1: to be miserable. And then one day it came out

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Speaker 1: that I might have done that, and it actually turned

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Speaker 1: out to be good, but in the meantime it gave

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Speaker 1: me incredible stress. This was back in October. I think

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Speaker 1: I lost about ten pounds in that week. I remember

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Speaker 1: being huddled over the toilet thinking I was going to

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Speaker 1: throw up. It was very, very bad. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: at that time, I googled how do I retire early?

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Speaker 1: And I had no idea anything like fire existed, And

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Speaker 1: that up came Mr Money Mustache and J. D. Roth, Like,

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Speaker 1: holy crap, here's these two dudes saying they retired at

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Speaker 1: like thirty one or something like that. I think j

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Speaker 1: D might have been a little bit older. My first

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Speaker 1: thought was, this has to be some kind of scam,

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Speaker 1: like what what kind of mL ADBM are they gonna

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Speaker 1: try to sell me? Or what kind of leggings are

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Speaker 1: they sell it? Where is this going? But then I

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Speaker 1: saw that m your Money Mustache article on the four

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Speaker 1: percent rule, and I'm like, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to live like that. Du twenty four thousand dollars sounds

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Speaker 1: like too little, But the whole thing is just a

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Speaker 1: pretty simple math problem. And it was at that time

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Speaker 1: I realized that fire was the real thing and I

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Speaker 1: was going to do this. So again, that was back

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Speaker 1: in October, and I ended up quitting my job in

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Speaker 1: April of Wow. So you don't live alone, though, Carl.

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Speaker 1: You've got you've got a wife, you've got children. So

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things where you can't just

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Speaker 1: like go storming off a quick your job. You've got

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Speaker 1: you've got mouths to feed. So but what were those

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Speaker 1: conversations like with your wife, Mindy, who's also our mutual friend.

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Speaker 1: We've had Mindy on the show before. I'm guessing because

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Speaker 1: she is also frugal, that conversation win. Okay, Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really surprised actually because that story I told you

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Speaker 1: about having a bad day and discovering those sites and

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Speaker 1: then telling Mindy. All happened in the course of maybe

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Speaker 1: an hour. So I remember I was in my office

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Speaker 1: and I ran out to the kitchen and I'm like, hey, Mandy,

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Speaker 1: you know how stressed I've been. She's like, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: well I discovered these websites about earlier retirement. And it

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Speaker 1: turns out, since we've been already saving money and we're

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Speaker 1: pretty frugal, that I could probably quit my job and

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Speaker 1: like for four years or so and then I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to deal with any of this. She was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: that sounds great. I trust you with with the math.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, let's do this. And that was all

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Speaker 1: there is to it. And that's about how long it took.

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Speaker 1: The other funny thing was, at that side, I told

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Speaker 1: her I was going to start a blog to write

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Speaker 1: about it, and she's like, that's a horrible idea. That's

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Speaker 1: that's just ridiculous. So she was okay with my insane

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Speaker 1: idea of retiring it like uh in my thirties or

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Speaker 1: early forties, but not okay with starting a website. So

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Speaker 1: there you have it. I mean, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks would be envious, honestly at the ability for

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Speaker 1: you to get your partner on board and maybe what

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Speaker 1: sounds like a five minute conversation is this So was

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Speaker 1: she always on board? Like? So, did y'all make any

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Speaker 1: kind of crazy heart pivots? Did you make any drastic

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Speaker 1: lifestyle changes as you kind of started to pursue fire?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I want to pack up a second

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Speaker 1: comment on what you just said. I'm so bleeping fortunate

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Speaker 1: that I have a partner that's on the same levels money.

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Speaker 1: If you hear about this all the time with people

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Speaker 1: saying I found fire, but my partner isn't into it.

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Speaker 1: My partner wants this in this car, wants this and this,

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Speaker 1: and how do I how do I convince them? And

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Speaker 1: it's it's not an easy problem. And we could discuss

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Speaker 1: that more if you want to. But I'm very, very

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Speaker 1: fortunate that I had a spouse that was on the

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Speaker 1: same level. I'm thankful for that every single day. We

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Speaker 1: didn't have to pivot too much. We had two old cars,

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Speaker 1: two thousand three Almond and two thousand ten Miles to five.

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Speaker 1: But what we did do is we sold our house.

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Speaker 1: We're living in this pretty nice luxury home It had

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Speaker 1: four beds, four bathrooms. It was a bit over four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand square feet. We sold that nice house and

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Speaker 1: moved to two better one bathroom that was infested with bugs,

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Speaker 1: ants and had a clogged sewer line, which I found

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Speaker 1: out after after a visit to talk about all the

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Speaker 1: previous day. I make stuff like this, and so so

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Speaker 1: it was, yeah, are you glad you made that move?

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Speaker 1: Like how did that end up? Because that's that's a

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Speaker 1: drastic change to go from four thousand square feet to

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Speaker 1: a crummy to one. Yeah, it was square feet. And

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Speaker 1: the thing about it is, I can't make this up.

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Speaker 1: We were happier in the crappy house because we had

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Speaker 1: better community and people. You know, that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: judgmental word. I should go back and not say better.

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Speaker 1: We had people around us who shared our values more

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Speaker 1: than our previous community. And our previous community, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like a right race. All the high school kids had

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Speaker 1: nicer cars than we did. They all their kids had

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Speaker 1: fancy toys, and our our kids actually got judged for

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Speaker 1: not having an American girl doll. But that's another story.

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Speaker 1: This new neighborhood and all the school is at its

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Speaker 1: long amouth the home of Mr Money Mustache, who acts

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Speaker 1: as a tractor beam for frugal minded people, was just great.

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Speaker 1: We've we fell in love with it immediately. There was

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Speaker 1: people on our block that brought us a pie when

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Speaker 1: we first moved in, and we're like, these are our people.

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Speaker 1: So this house is crumby. Uh we're all sleeping in

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Speaker 1: the same bedroom for a short amount of time, like

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Speaker 1: fix things up. We gotta do something about the wayward

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Speaker 1: sewer line. But we were happier in the crust of

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Speaker 1: your house and we eventually fixed it up. Well, so

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Speaker 1: you said that, mindy, she wasn't as excited about you

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Speaker 1: starting that site. Uh, your blog. Let's let's talk about

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Speaker 1: that for a second. So first of all, why did

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Speaker 1: you pick days as the goal for reaching that work endpoint?

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Speaker 1: Because you explained early on when you started the site.

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Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that sum Yeah, So, before I

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Speaker 1: discovered any of this, we were pretty frugal and saved

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. So we had about five hundred

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Speaker 1: a little bit over five thousand saved up, and we

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Speaker 1: had a hundred and fifty in home equity. I determined it.

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Speaker 1: I just pulled the number out of my back end

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Speaker 1: that we would need about a million dollars and no

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Speaker 1: to retire. That turned out not to be true, so

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Speaker 1: that I did some calculations based on my income and

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Speaker 1: the stock market returning about ten percent, which was probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit silly to content such a thing. But

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Speaker 1: then it turned out the stock market return better than

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Speaker 1: ten percent and I made a little bit more money

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Speaker 1: than I thought. So anyway, the days was the amount

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Speaker 1: of money I thought it would take to accumulate that goal,

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Speaker 1: and it actually happened about a year earlier, which was

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Speaker 1: pretty cool, very lucky and fortunate. So you know, you

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Speaker 1: you came out and told maybe about fire, and you said,

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Speaker 1: I want to start this blog. Why the blog though?

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Speaker 1: Why was it like, Hey, I want to share all

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Speaker 1: my formation or I want to document documented on the internet.

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Speaker 1: What was the purpose behind that in your mind? And

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Speaker 1: then yeah, like, how's that been for you? Initially you're

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Speaker 1: doing it under a pseudonym. Now more people know who

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Speaker 1: you are, But what what was what was the impetus

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Speaker 1: behind documenting it all? Yeah? I thought it would be

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Speaker 1: pretty cool to share my journey with the world. I

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Speaker 1: also thought it would help to keep me accountable if

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Speaker 1: I had to share my numbers and my purchases, my

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Speaker 1: budget with the world, I'm going to be less likely

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Speaker 1: to do something stupid. And the third reason, and this

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Speaker 1: reason is the one I was most unsuccessful with, was

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Speaker 1: I wish we were all a little bit open about money.

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Speaker 1: We keep it as such a guarded thing in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Like what are the three things we don't talk about? Sex, religion,

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Speaker 1: and money? And why don't we talk about money? It's

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Speaker 1: so silly. If we did, we could get over it

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Speaker 1: and help each other up. It drives me a little

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Speaker 1: bit nuts. In our society, there's always these lists and

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Speaker 1: Fortune magazine about the top ten billionaires or the top

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Speaker 1: billionaires under under thirty, and we put money on this

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Speaker 1: huge pedestal. It would be nice if we put something

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Speaker 1: else on a pedestal, like like what we volunteer, how

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Speaker 1: much money we give away, what we give back instead

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Speaker 1: of worspeed people for money. So in my dream world,

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Speaker 1: we will all talk about money openly, and then we

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Speaker 1: would get over it and help each other out. I

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Speaker 1: think there'd be less need or want for status symbols,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes I think we buy our finance nice cars

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Speaker 1: to show people that we have money that we don't

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Speaker 1: actually have. Yeah, and it's I mean, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: balancing act though, too, right, because we don't want to

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Speaker 1: disclose every single personal thing about ourselves. Like folks have

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Speaker 1: different levels of uh knowledge that they're comfortable sharing with folks.

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Speaker 1: But for you, you're obviously a little more comfortable sharing

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Speaker 1: your figures out there with everyone. Have have you found

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Speaker 1: that there's been any downsides, you know, to the public

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Speaker 1: nature of sharing all of your your specific financial details

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Speaker 1: because anyone showed up at your doorstep and said, can

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Speaker 1: I have a loan? Please call? Yeah. I always thought

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Speaker 1: we would be anonymous, and I still kind of wish

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Speaker 1: we are, because there are to issues with this. If

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Speaker 1: you really want to find me, you could. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: all your listeners are perfectly well adjusted people and know

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Speaker 1: of them will show up on our doorstep. But if

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Speaker 1: they do, we have security cameras. So but by the way,

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Speaker 1: about meeting people, but yeah, people will send us. I've

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Speaker 1: received snail mail and emails for people asking for money,

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Speaker 1: and I always I've always responded to them telling them that, hey,

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Speaker 1: I don't have money to give you, but I'd like

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Speaker 1: to help you if I can. Let's see how we

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Speaker 1: can get your finances together, and that's gonna be of

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Speaker 1: more long term benefit to you. And funny enough if yeah,

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Speaker 1: funny enough, no one ever responds to that. They just

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Speaker 1: they just want a thousand dollars or whatever they want. Oh,

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Speaker 1: there's no check in the return on below. I'm ripping

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Speaker 1: this up. No check. Maybe that wants to give me advice?

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Speaker 1: Lame well, Carl. You you finally did quit, right like

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Speaker 1: roughly four years later. What in your estimation, have been

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Speaker 1: the biggest benefits of not working and how has your

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Speaker 1: life changed since you hit that fine number? Um? Oh man, jeez,

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Speaker 1: I could talk about this forever. One thing I want

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Speaker 1: to start out by saying is if I will not

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Speaker 1: change who you are and what really changed much about

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Speaker 1: your life? Happiness, if that makes any sense. So it's

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Speaker 1: definitely a lot better, but you're still the same person

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Speaker 1: that you were when you had a job. So I

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Speaker 1: thought when I quit, like rainbows and pop out, it

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Speaker 1: would start rain beer and there would be like a

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Speaker 1: chocolate fountain pop out of my backyard. And then none

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Speaker 1: of those things happened. I was I knew life was better,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't necessarily happy. So I started researching happiness

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Speaker 1: and it turns out like half of happiness is genetic,

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Speaker 1: is your intentional living, and ten percent is your circumstances.

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Speaker 1: So fire is only a circumstance. It's not that much

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Speaker 1: of a happiness improvement for your life. So I realized

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Speaker 1: that there were other things I had to work on.

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Speaker 1: So my messages your listeners is to don't expect fire

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Speaker 1: to solve your problems. If you have issues with your wife,

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Speaker 1: for you have issues with yourself, which I did, you

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Speaker 1: have to start working on them now. Don't wish your

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Speaker 1: days away because you think this thing is going to

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Speaker 1: help you. But on a positive side, it was great.

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Speaker 1: I would always get these emails asking me if I

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Speaker 1: want to volunteer and my kids Valentine's date party or

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Speaker 1: this or that. So as soon as I quit, I

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Speaker 1: could do all those things. You know, it's so awesome.

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Speaker 1: And remember the first one I went to, I think

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Speaker 1: it was my younger daughter's Valentine's Date party. She's she's

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Speaker 1: running around with all our friends and then at one

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Speaker 1: point she locked eyes with me and ran up to

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Speaker 1: me and said, Dad, Mike, what what's going on? She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy you could be here with me, Like

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Speaker 1: I've almost cried, and she's read off and she's probably

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Speaker 1: forgotten the whole thing by then. But it's the little

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Speaker 1: moments like that. Being able to take walks with your

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Speaker 1: children in the middle of the day in summer and

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Speaker 1: ride bikes and time is the best thing you can

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Speaker 1: give your kids. And now that I have Fire, I

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Speaker 1: can of my kids time and it's infinitely valuable. I'm

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Speaker 1: so thankful, I think. I mean, like you said, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't it's just ten percent. It's it's ten percent of

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Speaker 1: your overall happiness. But money is only just a portion

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Speaker 1: of those overall circumstances. And so I think, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: you said, you know you can do to change these

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Speaker 1: circumstances and and and reaching I mean, fire, that's just

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Speaker 1: that's just one like a status of the money that

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Speaker 1: you have. Like money is, it's just an amplifier of

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Speaker 1: who you already are. And so obviously you have these

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Speaker 1: desires to spend more time with your kids, to to

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Speaker 1: kind of lead that that type of life. And so

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Speaker 1: just in regards to work, you know, do you think

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Speaker 1: that the Fire movement gets anything wrong, like when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the value of work, because Karl, for you specifically,

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Speaker 1: it seems like like you are working just as hard

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Speaker 1: right now as as you were before you quit working.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if the Fire movement totally gets the work

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Speaker 1: part wrong. I totally agree with financial independence, and everyone

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Speaker 1: should try to achieve that no matter how much you

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Speaker 1: like your job, but to retire early. If you love

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Speaker 1: your job and we do your your work for free,

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Speaker 1: why would you ever quit? Stay there, become financially independent

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Speaker 1: because your job might not always love you back, but

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Speaker 1: there's no reason to quit. I love talking about this

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Speaker 1: because as soon as I quit, I thought maybe I

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Speaker 1: took the Internet retirement police to heart. I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be doing work. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: not allow myself to code anymore. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: allow myself to build stuff. I'm retired now, I should

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Speaker 1: be spending my day riding my bike and hiking intoing

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Speaker 1: all this fun stuff. And then I kind of went

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Speaker 1: into a depression. And then you'll you realize, like meaningful

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Speaker 1: work gives you purpose, and that purpose gives you happiness.

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Speaker 1: So that's what fire is all about. It's to do

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Speaker 1: the work that really really gets you moving deep down,

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Speaker 1: and that work may or may not pay money. You

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Speaker 1: need to always make sure that work pays you in happiness,

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Speaker 1: and oddly enough, some of it will pay you in money.

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Speaker 1: I've made money unintentionally and intentionally after I've quit. But

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Speaker 1: the main thing I need to make sure of and

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Speaker 1: always have to be sure of, is that whatever work

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Speaker 1: I'm doing gives me happiness, because if it's not wasting

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Speaker 1: my time and I should be doing something else because

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Speaker 1: I have enough money and don't need anymore. Yeah, well, Carl,

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Speaker 1: I love your philosophy. I love that we're getting into this.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of work, one of the things that you

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Speaker 1: do for work is you have been doing living flips,

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Speaker 1: and there is there's a lot of specific I think

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Speaker 1: information that our listeners can get from from you, basing

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Speaker 1: based on having done it multiple times, um, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of like specific nuance uh and living flips

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Speaker 1: can be particularly uh lucrative for some folks. Will talk

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Speaker 1: more about that right after this break. Al Right, we

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Speaker 1: are talking with Carl Jensen, and just before the break,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about just the different views that we have

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Speaker 1: towards work, finding meaningful work even if you're you're getting paid,

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Speaker 1: or if you're not getting paid, and so Carl let's

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Speaker 1: talk about living flips here for a second. For you, you

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Speaker 1: you know, this has been a great way to have

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Speaker 1: meaningful work now that you don't have a traditional five

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Speaker 1: and it's been a great source of income for you too,

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Can you can you explain to our

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Speaker 1: listeners what you've been up to regarding live in flips.

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Speaker 1: I love living flips, so I'll start up. I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've probably discussed this on some episode, but

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Speaker 1: buying a house isn't the investment that people think it is, right,

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Speaker 1: like houses usually appreciate it. Now, I might be a

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Speaker 1: little bit of anomaly with correct right, not, but but

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Speaker 1: houses don't usually appreciate much more than the average rate

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Speaker 1: of inflation, and that goes back to like the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. I think it's YouTube might know more than me.

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Speaker 1: If you talked about this before on the show we have, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you're right. We are in a completely a time

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Speaker 1: period that is unlike any other, and so I think,

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Speaker 1: especially after the downturn in the Great Recession of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, it's one of those things where people

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Speaker 1: um like people can get burned, right, and then since

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Speaker 1: then we've seen steady appreciation really great appreciation in home prices,

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Speaker 1: partly because of that downturn UM. But yeah, some of

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Speaker 1: the real estate agents and stuff I know are like

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Speaker 1: they make these promises to home buyers and some of

404
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Speaker 1: those things are unlikely to come true. The you know,

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Speaker 1: the home prices don't go up at hockey stick level

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Speaker 1: like this um most of the time. Right, No, there's

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Speaker 1: a ceiling, and as soon as interest rates stircuing up,

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Speaker 1: I think we might see some of that ceiling coming.

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Speaker 1: But lived flips are really great. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: how I got into my first one. We had bought

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Speaker 1: this house, it was my first house. It was about

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars and I had called up a plumber

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Speaker 1: to fix this fossibly and he came over. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: i'll be back over tomorrow. It'll be like a hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks to fix and then he never showed up, and

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Speaker 1: I was pretty angry because I had the money already.

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Speaker 1: He said he was going to show up. So I

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Speaker 1: went to the library. I'm pretty old, so this is

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Speaker 1: before YouTube, and sure enough there was a book on

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Speaker 1: how to fix this. I went to home depot or

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Speaker 1: whatever the big box was off this gasket and fixed it.

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Speaker 1: For like a dollar, and then this plumber called up

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Speaker 1: like a week later. He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm finally

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Speaker 1: ready to do your job, and I'm like, no, I

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Speaker 1: already did myself. Thank you, but no, thank you. And

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Speaker 1: then my next thought was that wasn't that hard? How

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Speaker 1: hard can all this other stuff be? Let's try to

428
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: do something some title. Yeah, let's let's try to do

429
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: some simple electrical stuff. We put in ceiling fans, Let's

430
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: redo the kitchen. How hard is to hang a cabinet?

431
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: And it turns out much of it wasn't that hard.

432
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: So this house that we bought for one forty we

433
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: found ourselves selling it for two forty a couple of

434
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: years later, mostly because of these improvements we made. And

435
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: the key thing about this is, or what are the

436
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: key things is there's this I R. S rule called

437
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: the two out of five year rule. So if you

438
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: have lived in a home for two of the past

439
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: five years and owned for two of the past five years,

440
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: you pay no capital gains. So there was some transaction

441
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: fees involved, so we probably came out with like eighty

442
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: thousand something like that, but we walked away with all

443
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 1: that money in our pocket and at that time, I

444
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: was making like thirty seven thousand a year, so middy

445
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: and I looked at you. So I'm like, let's do

446
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: this again, but let's lend a house with pig toilets

447
00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: and blue bathtubs and cabinets. Yeah, let's find ugliest house

448
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: in the nicest neighborhood. And I think now we're on

449
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: number eight. Our current one was kind of unintentional, but

450
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 1: here we are. I just wrote a post about this.

451
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: I think we've made like seven or eight hundred thousand

452
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: dollars and beautiful text free capital gains. It's just a

453
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 1: great way to make money, especially if you're young, because

454
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: you might not be making that much. But if you're

455
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: willing to put a little elbow grease into your house

456
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: on nights or weekends, you can make your house work

457
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: for you instead of being a liability. You have to

458
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: have a place to live, so why not make the

459
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 1: house make you money. It's a It's a wonderful strategy

460
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: I recommended for anyone. And the other thing I'll say

461
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: real quick is there's so much help on the internet.

462
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: Now you can look on YouTube and figure out just

463
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: about anything. I did not grow up a blue collar guy.

464
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: I was a computer programmer, and now I could probably

465
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: almost build a house with my hands just because of

466
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: everything I've done on all these flips over time. It's

467
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 1: not that difficult. And I want to please be careful.

468
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: If you feel you're endangered all or you're a little

469
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: bit word, consult a professional. But it's not that bad.

470
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad you got the disclaimer in there just in case, like,

471
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: don't start prying things open, put them together. But I

472
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: love that, Carl, and I think like, yeah, you you

473
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: didn't go into it as some sort of home renovation expert.

474
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: You learned along the way. It took a lot of

475
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: research and then it took a lot of trial and error.

476
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: But obviously the biggest pro I'm glad you mentioned it

477
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: is tax free gains. It's really really hard to find

478
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: anything in this world that will give you access to

479
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: invest in something that you won't you won't have tax

480
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: in any way, form or fashion. But a living flip

481
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: is one of those. But what are the cons would

482
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: you say of living in a living flip? Like that's

483
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: gotta be tough with with the kids, Like you're in

484
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: this two one and you're working on at the same time. Um,

485
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: that's that's not easy, right. Oh yeah, I would not

486
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: recommend what I did on that specific one, and I'll

487
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: get into that in a second. But the cons are

488
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: you're living in a construction zone. I remember like the

489
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: third or fourth one we did, and this is before kids,

490
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: but MIDI had just done the laundry. So she's got

491
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: this basket of like fresh laundry, all these clean shirts,

492
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: and she had folded it up and we're about to

493
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: put away at I turned over and she's crying. It

494
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: was a rough time with a flip. I'm like, what's wrong.

495
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: So I looked out at the basket and there's a

496
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: layer of dry walet dust on top of all these clothes.

497
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: Ordinarily that when I've done a tragedy, but I think

498
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: we were going through a rough time with that particular flip.

499
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the hard thing. You gotta be okay

500
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: with a little bit of discomfort. And I would actually

501
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: recommend that you don't take on a big job, and

502
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: maybe not any if you do have children. That was

503
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: the huge mistake I made with this to one my

504
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: kids were young. I've got a funny picture of my

505
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: kids standing in the middle of this, like next to

506
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: this refuse pile of crap. I think it was a

507
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: siding from the house, and every moment I spent on

508
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 1: the house was a moment I was not spending with

509
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: my kids. So that one was very financially lucrative, not

510
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: life lucrative. I would actually take that one back, even

511
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: though it was our most profitable one if I could.

512
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: So if you do do this strategy and you have kids, uh,

513
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: do it maybe after you've left your job, because when

514
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: I actually when I did that one, I had a

515
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: full time job. That was a mistake. This one I'm

516
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: doing now I do not have a job, so I

517
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: can just work on it when the kids are in

518
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: school and put all the tools away as soon as

519
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: they come home. Never work on weekends, And that's the

520
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: way to do it, or before you have them. Don't

521
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: do it with young children. If you have a job, yeah,

522
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: it makes sense to kind of have that replace your

523
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: nine to five. But if you are looking to hustle,

524
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: I mean, some folks are in a position where they're

525
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: gonna take on whatever they can in order to get

526
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: either ahead or get out of the hole that they've

527
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: dug themselves into. Right, But like you said, I mean

528
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: especially if you have kids, it's definitely something to consider

529
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: whether or not it's gonna be worth it to you

530
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: or not. Uh and so, Carl, So, how how would

531
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: you suggest our listeners get started with a living flip

532
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: if that's something that they're interested in. Okay, I'm gonna

533
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: go through a couple of tips, and of these might

534
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: not be implementable, but they might be. The First thing

535
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: I try to look at is I will I really

536
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: want to live in a place that the economy is

537
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: doing very well. So I know there's certain areas of

538
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: the Midwest, like where I'm from, certain parts of Chicago

539
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: have really suffered in the real estate prices aren't what

540
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: they were even think they're still lower than they were

541
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: before the Great Recession happened. So I want to live

542
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: in a place where things are improving, where even if

543
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything, I might still do what pretty

544
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: well with the house that I want to look at

545
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: a town that I think is on the upswing. So

546
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: I live near Boulder, Colorado, and Boulder is already pretty nice,

547
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: where Long Moot still has maybe some parts that are

548
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 1: a little bit rough around the edges, but I so overall,

549
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: I think Long Mint has more room to improve, it's

550
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: not quite as pretty as Boulder. Then I try to

551
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: find a neighborhood where the houses are maybe thirty to

552
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: forty years old, so they're outdated, but they're not so

553
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: old that they have things like nabatut boiring or ancient

554
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: plumbing that's leaking or structural issues. I want to sign

555
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: a house that has pretty modern construction. And I also

556
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: want to find a neighborhood that people are putting money into.

557
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: So you always hear people talking about, oh, if you

558
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: look around the city, look at the amount of cranes

559
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: that are in the city, because if there's lots of cranes,

560
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: the city is probably booming economically. It's a sign. Yeah.

561
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: So what my sign for a neighborhood is I walk

562
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: around the neighborhood and I look for dumpsters. So every

563
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: dumpster I see this, every dumpster I see is a

564
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: little gold star. I'm happy because that means people are

565
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: putting money to it. And exactly, yeah, I didn't even

566
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: think of this, but by daughter and I took a

567
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: walk right before this podcast, and I saw We took

568
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: a walk around the block and I saw three dumpsters.

569
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: So that is there's there's magic in those dumpsters. I

570
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: think it's like a domino effect to when it comes

571
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: to if you see a few dumpsters, they're about to

572
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: be in the next neighborhood over like a few months

573
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: from now. And so sometimes you can tell to like, Okay,

574
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: this neighborhood, nobody's really looking at it yet, But if

575
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: they're in the neighborhood next door, it's it's only a

576
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: matter of time before before they wait into that territory too, right, Yeah. Yeah.

577
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: The other thing I'll say is it's always better to

578
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: wait for a great deal than to jump on an

579
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: okay deal. For this current house where and now, it

580
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: took us about two years before we took the plunge

581
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: in path this house. So we identified the neighborhood and

582
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: we would watch the listings every single day. If you've

583
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: done that for a while, you probably know within about

584
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: thirty seconds if the house is worth pursuing, and that

585
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: if it is, you can go take a look at it. Uh.

586
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: This is a little bit harder to do now in

587
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: the COVID environment when housing is on fire, the good

588
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: kind of fire, not the back kind of fire. But

589
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: I think it's still feasible. You can still find deals. Well, Carl,

590
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: you've you've done some other non traditional like less glamorous

591
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: real estate investing as well. Can you share how those

592
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,479
Speaker 1: deals have worked out? Yeah, So we do syndication deals,

593
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: which is where a pool of people by something like

594
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: an apartment building, and my syndication deals we fix up

595
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: the apartment building over time. Or the sinn cater does

596
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: you collect rents on a quarterly basis, and then you

597
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: collect excuse me payments on a quarterly basis, and then

598
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: you collect a big payment hopefully one of the thing

599
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: cells at the end. I also owned a trailer park,

600
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: which is something sties. Yeah that is that as much

601
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: less glamorous. But yeah, we sold that earlier this year

602
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: and it is now gone. But it worked out very

603
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: well for us. Nice. Did I hear you say that

604
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: that you didn't make as much money with the trailer

605
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: park as you would have if you had just stuck

606
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: that money in the No, we actually so. The thing

607
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: about the trailer park was it wasn't really rough shape,

608
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: and we spent all the any dollar that came in

609
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: we put right back into it. So we fixed it up.

610
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: We kicked out all the riff raff, and we made

611
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: it a better place for the people who lived there,

612
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: which was great. But because of that, we never made

613
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: much money from it while we owned it. But I

614
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: did the calculation at the end. In the end I

615
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: we made we came out fifty thou dollars ahead of

616
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: where we would if I had invested it in the

617
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: SMP five hundred. So I think we came out three fifty,

618
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: and if it was in the SMP, it would have

619
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: been three hundred. With every syndication deal I've ever had,

620
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: the money would have been better in the SMP five hundred,

621
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: which is kind because the syndication deals have met their goals,

622
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: they've done great, but the market has been on such

623
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: fighter that they haven't been able to keep up. Yeah,

624
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: I think maybe maybe that's what I heard, And I

625
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, that's that's just fascinating that you've done well,

626
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: but still sometimes the stock market and having your money

627
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: just sitting in the stock market in a total stock

628
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: market index one or in the SMP five hundred. Is

629
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: UM has obviously been a great move for decades, but

630
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: especially over the last decade. But Carl, we want to

631
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: talk more about index funds and individual stock investing because

632
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: that's something you have you've done as well, So we'll

633
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: get two questions on that right after this. Right we're

634
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: back from the break and again we're talking with Carl Jensen.

635
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: We've just talked out his living flips, and Carl, I've

636
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: got to say, basically, I think when I grow up,

637
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: I kinda want to be like you because there's something

638
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: so appealing to me about doing a living flip. But

639
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: like you, we've got we've got some young kids and

640
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: that would not at all be feasible, but maybe in

641
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: like fifteen years it sounds good to you, but not

642
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: not so much our wives. Well, no, Kate's totally down

643
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: with it. I've I've talked with her about it, and

644
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: we're kind of looking ahead, like fifteen years from now.

645
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, we could see ourselves moving, finding

646
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: a fixer upper, spending sometimes getting the tools, making sure

647
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: we have the proper equipment to renovate a home ourselves,

648
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: because the added benefit before selling it, I mean, you're

649
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: actually able to live in and enjoy this property before

650
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: you get to sell it. I know you just finished

651
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: up that you've got this killer curved deck on the

652
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: back of your house. That kind of goes out to

653
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: the pool. But that's something that you've been able to

654
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: enjoy yourself. It's not something that is uh that you're

655
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: immediately turning into money, right, That is correct. It's very satisfying.

656
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: And that's kind of our goal to do the work

657
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: that's kind of improve our lives the quickest. So that

658
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: the two things I did first, we're to finish the

659
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: pace fit with another bathroom and to build that tech

660
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: because we hang out on that deck all summer. We

661
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: gotta we gotta great deal on this house because it

662
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: had this pool, but then it just had this bad

663
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: piece of chuckle lad and back of it. So I'm like,

664
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: let's put a door here too, and let's put a

665
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: deck to get off to the pool. We sit on

666
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: that thing and we have parties like every single day

667
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: of the summer. It's just it's wonderful. That's awesome. Alright.

668
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love to live in Flips and I

669
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: think it makes sense for a lot of people. And

670
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad you talked about that. But let's talk about

671
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: stock investing, Carl. You are all about index funds, but

672
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: you also might potentially be the single greatest stock picker

673
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: that I actually know that I'm actually have a relationship

674
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: with present. I will second that, Yeah, you bought like Facebook,

675
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: Google and Tesla early on. And the value of your

676
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: individual stock portfolio is it bigger than your index fund holdings? Now? Um? Yeah,

677
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: it is far bigger. My single greatest holding is uh,

678
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: you know actually by single grace holding his vt S,

679
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: A X and vt I. But my stocks are taken together,

680
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: are much bigger than the index funds, which is a

681
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,239
Speaker 1: precarious place to be. I will say, well, I mean

682
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: you've seen awesome returns from your portfolio, right, you know,

683
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: considering that, like you wouldn't necessarily go back and change things.

684
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: But I mean, but why should others maybe not follow

685
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: your lead uh and start picking single stocks as well?

686
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: Why why should they see your example? And they're like,

687
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: I want to be like to do it. It's like

688
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I'll bother those three stocks also. But I guess we

689
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: wanted you to talk a little bit here about index

690
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: fund investing in h your thoughts on that, Yeah, I'd

691
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: love too. So I'm looking at my portfolio right now.

692
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: My single most successful investment is Tessa and I have

693
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: six D and five shares that I bought in and

694
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: there thirteen thousand six percent returns, So that's a hundred

695
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: and thirty six bag or right there, worth a hundred

696
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: thirty six times what I paid. Yeah, yeah, it's huge.

697
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: But I kind of tell you if you're looking for

698
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: some kind of investment thesis as to why I bought that,

699
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: it was because I thought the Tesla Model US was

700
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: a cool looking car, and I thought Elon Musk was

701
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: kind of smart, and I admired his savvy and on

702
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: top of that, I'm just stubborn. So I've held onto

703
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: almost solved. But I did saw a couple of chairs,

704
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: which was a mistake a while ago. So that was

705
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: my thesis, and that's probably not a very good thesis.

706
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: The thing I think about stop picking is I've got

707
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: this chart here with the top ten S and P

708
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: five companies in the year two thousand. Can you guess

709
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: what any of them are? How many of them are

710
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: still in the top ten. I'm gonna guess that zero

711
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: of them in their top ten? Was was Xerox in

712
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: there back then? Ye? Excellent was number two, Ge was

713
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: number one, Fiser City Group, Cisco there might be too.

714
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: So I see Walmart in here, and I know Microsoft

715
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: is still in the top ten. I'm not so sure

716
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: about Walmart, but a lot of these companies are shadows

717
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: of their former selves. So because disruption happens that I

718
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: found the site that shows you what the top ten

719
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: SMP holdings were since nineteen eighty. In the nineteen eighty

720
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: it was like Standard Oil of Indiana. There's one called Schlumberger.

721
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: Does anyone even know what the heck that is? Slumburger?

722
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: Here's Atlantic Richfield. I don't even know what four out

723
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: of ten of these companies are. So disruption happens fast.

724
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: If you look at the top ten now, they're all

725
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: tech companies. And if you think those companies won't be

726
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: disrupted at some point, you're wrong. Like Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Alphabet.

727
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: They're killing it now, but there's a chance these companies

728
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: won't even be around by It sounds crazy to say,

729
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: but think back to two thousand six. Who was ruling

730
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: the cell phone game was Nokia, it was BlackBerry. All

731
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: took was one company to come out with a new phone,

732
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: Apple and then Google the pivot to Android that they

733
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: bought andrewid. They Demoso's companies. So with one announcement in

734
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: January of two thousand and seven, by Steve Jobs. Those

735
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: other companies were numbered and who would have guessed it?

736
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: So you never know what's going to come out and

737
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: destroy your stockholding. And I'm sure that's going to happen

738
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: to some of my stocks. And that's the hard thing.

739
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: When is Facebook? When our kids going to move over

740
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: to Snapchat? And I think that's already happened, actually, but

741
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: but Tesla probably won't be around forever, neither all Amazon.

742
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: Someone will come out with something that we could never

743
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: even predict, and it will be obvious once that thing

744
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: comes out and once it dominates, like, oh yeah, that

745
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: was easy. But it's totally impossible to predict right now.

746
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: And that's why index funds are so powerful, because they're

747
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: self cleansing. The big companill rise to the top and

748
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: you'll be holding that and the ones that fall out

749
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: fallt and you don't have to worry about a thing.

750
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: The other thing I'll say real quick is holding all

751
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: these stocks consumes my mental bandwidth. I probably spend about

752
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: an hour a day looking at Tesla, just because I

753
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: own so much of it, and maybe employing myself. But

754
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: I want to have a pretty good idea of if

755
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: I think the company is still going to be viable

756
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: by that consumes mental bandwidth, where if I had an

757
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: index fund, I wouldn't have to worry about any of that.

758
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: I could just buy that and never look at anything.

759
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: I was just talking about this the other day with

760
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: a friend, how I have a very small amount of crypto,

761
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: a very small amounts Like it's it's uh, it's almost

762
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: meaningless when it comes to my net worth, and just

763
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: because it's moving quickly, it's consuming more of my attention.

764
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm thinking about just getting rid of

765
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: it because of that, because it's from that standpoint, like

766
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: even if it went up in a year, it doesn't

767
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't have any massive impact on the way I

768
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: live my life, but it does on a day to

769
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: day basis because it's drawing my attention away. And so

770
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point, and one that's

771
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: not communicated enough is that index funds are kind of

772
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: that set and forget it, like, go on about your life,

773
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: live normally and don't think about your investments very much.

774
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we um. That's that's such

775
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: an important way to think about your investments. You don't

776
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: want to be kind of tied up thinking about them constantly. Yeah,

777
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important. I mean, which would you rather be

778
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: doing exercise and improving your health, being at the park

779
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: with your kid, or reading the latest news story on

780
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: Tesla on Twitter. I guess in your case, you can

781
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: have a little bit of both. You can you can

782
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: invest in Tesla and still go looking for dumpsters while

783
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: you're while you're on your walk, Carl like, so, what

784
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on spending money that you've made? You know,

785
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: you you you're pretty frugal dude now, and you've also

786
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: got this massive nest egg and you're still making money

787
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: with those flips, maybe some some ad revenue with your blog,

788
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: and so have you kind of gotten to the point

789
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: where you've crossed over and you feel a little more

790
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: comfortable spending money. Obviously you've kind of earmarked some funds

791
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: here in the next twelve to eighteen months for a Tesla.

792
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: But I guess what I'm saying is I don't necessarily

793
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: seeing you being the kind of guy that's going to

794
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: go out and buy a yacht. But at the same time,

795
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: I know, for a lot of folks it's wife Tesla

796
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: made the But for a lot of folks, it can

797
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: be difficult to spend even just a little bit of money. Uh,

798
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about that kind of crossover point from earning

799
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: and saving to actually spending some of that money. Yeah,

800
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: it's it's very difficult. My life looks pretty much the

801
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: same as it did when like ten years ago, when

802
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: our portfolio was probably ten percent of what it is now.

803
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: The thing I found like the great thing with money,

804
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: I'll say two things. The great thing is you don't

805
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: worry so much about the day to day life if

806
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: something goes wrong and you need to spend money on

807
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: a breedo at the airport because you're about to miss

808
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: your plane and you didn't have a chance to eat

809
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: before you left, or I'm trying to think of another

810
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: silly example. I'm not looking at gas station prices to

811
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: try to save money on gas. I'm not trying to

812
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: save a buck here and there on stuff. I'll just

813
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: go out and buy it. The other thing is where

814
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: I have let loose Joel. We talked about this a

815
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: little bit a couple of days ago. So it's so

816
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 1: nice to be able to spend money on the things

817
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: that really make you happy, and for me, that's building

818
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 1: better friendships. So what example, when we met last week,

819
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: I ordered a bunch of barbecue from this famous place

820
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: and in Austin and just shared it with everyone. Everyone's like,

821
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: how much do I owe you? I'm like, nothing, this

822
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: is on me. I just wanted to spend time with

823
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: you because I probab they won't see you for the

824
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: rest of this conference because we're also busy, so so

825
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: come have some food. Hub. We've thought about buying a

826
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: place in the mountains, another house. It would be a

827
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: gathering spot for four friends as well. Just have an

828
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: open invitation for everyone that I enjoyed that's close to me,

829
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: and I would never charge them anything. They would just

830
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: all come up with their kids and we'd hang out

831
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: and have good conversations. So those are the two big things.

832
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if that latter one will, however, actually happen,

833
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: but well, I love it though. You're letting your values

834
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: inform where your money goes. And I think sometimes it's

835
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: it's so easy as maybe get a raise at work,

836
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: or it's funny. I just met a listener recently who

837
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: like three extra income in a couple of years by

838
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: uh getting an advanced degree, and it was like she

839
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: was like I'm still living the same way I was before,

840
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,959
Speaker 1: and it's because she's letting her values drive the way

841
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: she lives, not the money influence all the things that

842
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: she then can purchase. And so, yeah, I appreciate that.

843
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a good way to live.

844
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,479
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, going back to your happiness point,

845
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: I think that leads to more happiness. Want to ask

846
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: you to call about You've got two girls. We talked

847
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 1: about them a little bit earlier, like how do you

848
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: talk to them about money? And like specifically, what do

849
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: you want them to know before they ultimately leave the nest,

850
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: before they go off to pursue an entrepreneurship angle or

851
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: go off to college or whatever they end up doing. Yeah,

852
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: we're pretty open about money, so they know aren't at worth.

853
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: But I also drill into their heads every day how

854
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: hard we had to work to get to that net worth.

855
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: And I also drill into their heads that that money

856
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: is mom and Dad's money, it is not your money.

857
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll say, ah, my older one is almost driving age,

858
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: like oh Dad, I want a car. Like, okay, you

859
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: better start saving a little bit then or figure some

860
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: stuff out because cars are expensive. Well, you've got the

861
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: money today, And I'm like, yeah, I've got the money.

862
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: You do not have the money. Uh. We we never

863
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: give them handouts if if they want something, they have

864
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: to work for it, and we try to teach them

865
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: about important basic concepts like compound interest. For example, they

866
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: have all these shorts to do, and we pay them

867
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: one per cent a month interest on their on the

868
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: money they have in the bank account. So so every

869
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: month we go in at the end of the month

870
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: and hey, you've got seven hundred bucks in there, you

871
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: get seven dollars. The other kid isn't as good as

872
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: a saver, so she'll have a hundred and Dad, why

873
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: didn't I get one dollar and Claire got seven dollars?

874
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, Claire has more money in her her account.

875
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: When you save more money, you'll get more free money

876
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: from the miracle of compound inserts as well. And I

877
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: don't know if any of this estate I hope it is.

878
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: It's it's difficult because you like to think you bring

879
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: kids up exactly the same, and then they turn out

880
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: they have their own personalities. And there's a lot to

881
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: that Jenna component that informs and determines the person who

882
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: they are and how they act and if they really

883
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: if they really possess gratification. A real quick story. Are

884
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: our old one, even when she was seven, We go

885
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: to Target and she's like, well, I want to buy this.

886
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, if you want, you can buy that.

887
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: But if you do that, you're gonna use almost all

888
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: your money and you won't have any more in case

889
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 1: you want something else in the future. And almost without exceptions,

890
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: should be like, Okay, I think you're right, I'm not

891
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: going to buy this, And to same trick with the

892
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: she's like, okay, what, I don't care. It's in the

893
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: car day. So I don't know what sticks and what does.

894
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: And I think you have to have a different approach

895
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: to everyone. And I don't know if I'll even be

896
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: successful with both of them. Are maybe not of them.

897
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: You could do your best and try to show, but

898
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: I have no secrets. Yeah, I bet either way though,

899
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: I mean different folks have different personalities. But either way,

900
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: I guarantee that those are gonna be lessons that stick

901
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: with them and they're gonna know, they're gonna understand how

902
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: it works, but what they choose to do with that

903
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: information kind it comes down to them as individuals. But Carl,

904
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot here about some of the

905
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: different things that you're doing for money. You you also

906
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: are planning to do a lot of things that aren't

907
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: going to generate money or income. And we saw that,

908
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: like one of your bucket list goals is to bike

909
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: across the country. Un you're looking to get some massive

910
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: sponsorship or something like that. That's probably not going to

911
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: make you much money. It probably shouldn't cost you a

912
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: whole lot of money either, But I guess we wanted

913
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: to see if Joel I if we could kind of

914
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: join up with you on that and maybe get it

915
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: on the calendar. Is that possible? I think that sounds

916
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: completely awesome. We could have like a how to money

917
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: bicycle tourn. You could have to meet up in every town,

918
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 1: and some of the small towns and i where there's

919
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: like fifty people, we might get like one person, or

920
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: it might be a cow or something like I was

921
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: gonna say, we have some cow listeners out there in

922
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: Iowa for sure. So as long as we can just

923
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: bike from one brewery to the next, I think that

924
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: would be enough to literally fuel me for another day.

925
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: So I think that is a worthwhile goal goal and

926
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: that would be a great way to do a bike ride. Yeah,

927
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: for sure. Awesome, Well, Carl, let's get that on the calendar.

928
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe three, I don't know. You you start,

929
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: you start noodling it out and we'll we'll we'll get

930
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: it down. But this, my friend, this was such a

931
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: fun conversation, so much good information. Always just good to

932
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: hang out with you as well. So thank you for

933
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: coming on our show. And where can our listeners kind

934
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: of find out more about you and what you're up to? Uh,

935
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: they can find me at my blog which is days

936
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: dot com just the number one zero zero, and I

937
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: have a podcast too, which is mile high five dot com. Um, Joe,

938
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: your interview will probably be up by the time this

939
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: one was published, but if not, you'll see it there soon.

940
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: Awes nice and of course we'll make sure to link

941
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: to all of that. Carl, thanks again for for coming

942
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

943
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 1: That seemed to be like five minutes long, but here

944
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: we are an hour later. So true, when there's a

945
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: good conversation, it it does feel it feel like it

946
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: doesn't applies exactly. Yeah, I mean that's how I feel.

947
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: So we are actually recording this shortly after finn Con,

948
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: which is the conference we refer to earlier on in

949
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: the episode, and I feel like our voices are just

950
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: kind of recovering because we just spent four days talking

951
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: NonStop with our kind of people, with our people at

952
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: an elevated volume, because it's just yeah, it's constant, it's NonStop.

953
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: But I'm so glad we're able to talk to Carl

954
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: today talking about all the different things that make up

955
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: his life. Joel, is your big takeaway from this episode?

956
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: So it's tough, man, because I feel like there's a

957
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff that that Carl said, but and

958
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: I could go with a lot of things, but I

959
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go with the fact that that he

960
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: said FI won't make you happy, like reaching financial independence.

961
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people assume that, well, if I just

962
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: had enough money, like and all my problems are going

963
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: to be fixed exactly, And that is not the way

964
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: it works. And so you have to work towards happiness. Now,

965
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: you have to work towards pursuing the things that you

966
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: love and having a lifestyle that isn't all work and

967
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: no play. You have to be even in the middle

968
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: of trying to save more and invest more and eventually

969
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: reaching that point where you don't have to work anymore.

970
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: If you don't want to, well, it's not gonna be

971
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: satisfying if you haven't cultivated yourself as a person along

972
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: the way, if you haven't developed toppies and uh, cultivated community.

973
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: Those are the kind of things that you need to

974
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: be doing right here, right now. And financial independence, it's

975
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 1: you're you're probably gonna be a little bored, a little

976
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: oppressed if you get to that point and you don't

977
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: have any of those things to go alongside of it.

978
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: So I think sometimes in the fire crowd that is

979
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: one thing that I've seen over and over. There's a

980
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: lot of good happening being, good news being spread in

981
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: that community, but there's also that tendency where it's like,

982
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm living for the future. I'm living for ten years

983
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: from now, and we don't want to find ourselves in

984
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: that position, that's for sure. And I think Carl that

985
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: was some that some really good advice and uh, yeah,

986
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: he's he's living just an incredibly balanced life these days,

987
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: and it's fun to see. Yeah, My I think my

988
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: big take away actually is gonna have to do with

989
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: balance as well, because he touched on how when he

990
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: was doing that live and flip of that, you know,

991
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: the most lucrative living flip that they did, how looking back,

992
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: how he actually may not have done it. Uh, he's

993
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: got this picture in his mind. Maybe it was an

994
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: actual picture that he took of his kids playing like

995
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: on a waiste heap of a bunch of construction debris,

996
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: which you always find yourself with around a home as

997
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: you're as you're working on it. There's just crap everywhere.

998
00:47:58,520 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: But I think that was just good for me to

999
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: here because I can be tempted to want to take

1000
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: on these projects because I find a lot of satisfaction

1001
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: in working with my hands and changing spaces. Uh. It's

1002
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: a part of why I touched on his ability to

1003
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: enjoy the patio that they have on the back on

1004
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: the back of their house. I kind of followed him

1005
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: as they worked on that thing, seeing his family out

1006
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: there by the pool. I see stuff like that and

1007
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: I immediately want to do the same thing, maybe not

1008
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: dig my own pool by hand, But that is also

1009
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 1: something I've actually said to you, Joel, that I'm gonna

1010
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: do where I'm just like you know, I don't. It

1011
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be like a traditional full size pool.

1012
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: What if it's just kind of like a plunge pool.

1013
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: I think I could totally do that myself, save a

1014
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: ton of money, but also enjoy it. That's that's because

1015
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: that's on the exterior. That's probably a little easier to

1016
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: do you've got kids. But if you're like, I'm gutting

1017
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: the whole house and we're gonna be like peeing in

1018
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: a hole, I mean, that's that's the kind of thing

1019
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: you don't want to be doing, right. But it's it's

1020
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: less to just the dust and the debris, but just

1021
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: the amount of time that it takes. Because he said

1022
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: that he had the standard nine to five and he

1023
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: was doing the home renovation during the evenings and on

1024
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: the weekends, and that is time that you can't get

1025
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: back with your kids. Uh. And so I'm tempted anytime

1026
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: I hear success stories, uh, and I see befores and afters.

1027
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: That's totally gets me every single time. But to hear

1028
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: him say that, that's only reinforced my desire to make

1029
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: sure that I pumped the brakes a little bit. And

1030
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: Kate and I have had this discussion before we truly

1031
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: could see ourselves down the road being living flippers. But

1032
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: not until the kids are out of the house. Yeah

1033
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: for sure, Yeah I feel you on that. But in

1034
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: the big take away, obviously great combo and the links

1035
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: to Carl's site and his podcasting the show notes. But yeah, Matt,

1036
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on the beer we had today?

1037
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: This was Old Chubb by Oscar Blues. We picked to

1038
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: Colorado Beer because that's where Carl lives. Um, this is

1039
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: a scotch Ail, It's been around a long time. What

1040
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: do you think? And in general this style has a

1041
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: kind of a soft spot in my heart because one

1042
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: of our favorite local breweries, Monday Night Brewing, one of

1043
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: their first beers, one of the first successful beers that

1044
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: they were brewing in their literal garage, was a scotch

1045
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: Ail drafty kilt scotch Ail, And so because of that,

1046
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: I have fond memories of scotch Ail's being kind of

1047
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: like legitimate craft beers. That was one of the first

1048
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: I feel like, truly Atlanta beers that I had. But

1049
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 1: Old Chub a fantastic beer. I mean, it's a scotch ailes,

1050
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: So what that means it's got that it's dark, it's

1051
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: a little sweet, it's got that multi backbone. Virtually no

1052
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: bitterness at all. I mean maybe like the tiniest bit

1053
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: that you would get. Uh, Like for instance, if you've

1054
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: got a piece of toast and it's been toasted maybe

1055
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: a touch too long, you've kind of got that bitterness

1056
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: going on, but virtually no bitterness from the hops. Really

1057
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: enjoyable beer and glad that this is something that you

1058
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: and I got to enjoy here on the episode today. Man,

1059
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? So to me, Scotch Hill is

1060
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: basically in between a stout and a brown nail. Uh.

1061
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of riding that center point. It's a

1062
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: little bit darker than that brown, but I've still got

1063
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: that lighter body. And so, especially early on in my

1064
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: craft of Your Days, I found myself gravitating towards Scotch

1065
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: jails a lot, although there aren't that many people that

1066
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: produced them. Monday night was the one I was probably

1067
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: drinking the most. But this one's great. And if you do,

1068
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: like you're like, I don't know, stuts are a little

1069
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: big for me, or brown ailes are a little too

1070
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: boring for me. Trying to find a Scott Jail and

1071
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: this is a great one to check out Old chub

1072
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: Oscar Blues. But that's gonna do it for this episode.

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00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: For folks who want those show notes links to the

1074
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: stuff we mentioned about Carl, you can find out up

1075
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: in our show notes at how to money dot com.

1076
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: And if you haven't left us a review yet, please

1077
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: head over to Apple Podcast where you can leave us

1078
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: a solid rating and review over there. That helps to

1079
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: ensure that others know about the podcast, and that is

1080
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: what helps Joel and I to continue to create amazing

1081
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: content for you multiple times a week. So Joel, that's

1082
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: gonna be it until next time. Best Friends Out, Best

1083
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: Friends Out,