1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Today, I'm joined by someone who has spent her career 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: not just reporting the news, but shaping an essential conversation 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: for women in the workplace. Mika Brzynski is of course 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: best known as the co host of Morning Joe, where 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: she's built a reputation for asking tough questions and speaking 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: plainly about power, politics, and the workplace for nearly twenty years. 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: But beyond the anchor desk, Mika has become one of 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: the leading voices on women work and compensation. Her book 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: Knowing Your Value sparked a national conversation about why women 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: so often undervalue themselves and what it really takes to 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: change all of that. She since built that idea into 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: a much larger platform, including Knowing Your Value Summit, where 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: she brings together influential women across industries to talk candidly 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 1: about money, ambition, and the realities of negotiating for what 15 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: you deserve. Mika has been open about her own experiences 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: with a disparity, and she's turned those lessons into very 17 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: practical advice for women at every stage of their careers. Mika, 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: it is such a pleasure to have you sitting here 19 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: with me at Newsstand Studios. 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: It is really great to get to know you better. 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Mika and I have actually known each other for quite 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: a few years. We share a love of Maine. Yes, 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: we share a love of media. We share a love 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: of our families. And we both have backgrounds in Poland. 26 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Yes we do yakshamash and pani that means hello, missus. 27 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: Jinkuya bombs thank you, or. 28 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: Jin kuya bards that means thank you very much. 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: Ordia's book I, which is my mom always said to 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: my dad, talks something like cut it out. 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: They were absolutely illiterate past Yes, that's it. Our mothers 32 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: did not do that good a job. My mother was fluent. 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: Your mother was, of course born in Polish. 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: Multi lingual. My mother was Czech, my father was Polish, 35 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 2: and they both spoke multiple languages. 36 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: Brilliant, amazing, amazing, brilliant. So was my mom. Well, knowing 37 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: your value struck a nerve when it came out in 38 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, that fabulous, fabulous book. Tell us about the 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: moment when you knew you needed to write that particular book. 40 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 2: Well, it was when I made the mistake all over again, 41 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: when I signed my Morning Joe contract, and I had 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: made it to the top of my career once twice, 43 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: maybe at CBS and in other places. And I've had 44 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: ups and downs. I got fired from CBS, and why why, 45 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: I still don't know exactly, but it haunts me. But 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: it was a one of the best things that ever 47 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: happened to me. Your stumbles are such building plucks, and 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: it was a big stumble. 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: It hurt, It hurt. 50 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: I fired on my butt. 51 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: They just called you in one day and said you're fired. 52 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it was a pretty piercing moment. They had just hired. 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: It was a whole scandal at CBS where there's there's 54 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: this memo gate scandal and Dan Rather and all the 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: management had been cleared out, and then new management, Kate 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: came in. They hired Katie Curic and I was going 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: to be the weekend anchor for CBS Evening News. And 58 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: I was just called down that long haul at CBS 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: Studios and I sat in there with the president at 60 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: the time, Sean McManus, and they he said that thing, 61 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: they say, we're going to be going in a different direction. 62 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, at your window, which is in a few months, 63 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: We're not going to be renewing you. We're going to 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: be letting you go. 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: I've never been fired like that. It must feel pretty shitty. 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: It was a really shitty feeling, and I hate the 67 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: way I handled it. I never ever handled bad situations 68 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: at work ever since, anywhere close to the way I 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: handled that. Wow, very regretful. Why do you have second 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: thoughts about that? Because when you're getting fired, it's a 71 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: moment of power, and if you do what I did, 72 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: you're giving away the power. 73 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: You walked away. I cried, Oh you cried. I have 74 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: a saying and you should follow it. Yes, I know 75 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: the saying women in business. Baby don't cry, m it, 76 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: don't cry. Ever, I've had that motto ever since I 77 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: was a child, and I don't know what made me, 78 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: what made me adopt that, but I adopted. 79 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: It well in that moment, taking it personally and reacting 80 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: emotionally gave away a lot of power. When you're getting fired, 81 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: you still have a moment for yourself to manage your exit, 82 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: to manage what they pay you at the exit, and 83 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: to make sure that you hold your cards close. You 84 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: don't let them know how you feel. In fact, you 85 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: leave them wondering. It's it's a negotiation. I mean we're 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: here to talk about knowing your value. Knowing your value 87 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: is in the door and out the door. 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm very happy that you are introspective 89 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: enough to understand that and to write about it so 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: that other people can be helped. Yeah. 91 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 2: No, it's another orgument can be helped. It's you still 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: have power when you're being fired, don't give it away, 93 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: and when you're talking, you're usually giving it away. So 94 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: it's it's the time to sort of button up and 95 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: say really, interesting. 96 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: So you've been candid about your salary negotiations. What was 97 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: the hardest lesson that you learned in all of that? 98 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: I learned that women have a lot in common when 99 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: it comes to negotiating really badly. I mean, some of 100 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: them do it. 101 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: Well. 102 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: I didn't, and Martha, you knew my parents, two incredible, 103 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: brilliant people who came here as refugees and who made 104 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: everything happen from nothing. And so I always wondered why 105 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: it was that I didn't have confidence and I didn't 106 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,799 Speaker 2: know my value, and that every time I got a contract, 107 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: I would grab it and sign it like like it was, 108 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: you know, quickly before it like poof disappears, you know, 109 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: and the truth is that you have to take a 110 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: minute negotiating, you have to think about what they've offered you. 111 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: You've got to wait a few days, you've got to 112 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: ask for more. And I watched during the Morning Joe 113 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: Show coming together Willie and Joe and Mike and our EP. 114 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: They all quite frankly, took their time, and one of 115 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: them didn't even show up for work when he didn't 116 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: get what he wanted. Can you imagine a woman would 117 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: never do that? At least in my thinking, it was like, oh, 118 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: my gosh, you have to show up for work. No, 119 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: actually you don't if you don't like the way the 120 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: conversation's going. I didn't know this, and so I did 121 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: it again. And when I did it again and I 122 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: signed the first piece of paper I got, I thought 123 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: to myself, how is it, with all the support I have, 124 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: that I'm in this place of no confidence and no 125 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: sense of my value. That's when I started to document it. 126 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: What did you finally realize? 127 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 2: I documented my entire process of getting to equal pay 128 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: with my male counterparts. And it took two years, and 129 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: I did all these things wrong, and I documented all 130 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: the mistakes, and I wrote about it so you don't 131 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: have to make those mistakes. I made them all for you. 132 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: But I also interviewed a lot of women and extremely 133 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: powerful positions all across industries, and I realized even those 134 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: who had done extremely well in their life hadn't gotten 135 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 2: there despite these issues of knowing your value, that knowing 136 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: your value was an universal struggle for women. And the 137 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: funny thing is is that women are extremely aggressive and 138 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: forceful and direct when it comes to their children, their 139 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: business partners, their spouses, their friends. My god, we're incredible. 140 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: Their marital relationships. 141 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'd life up when it's defending those we love 142 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: or care about. But when it's for ourselves and when 143 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: it comes to money, we still feel a little untoward. 144 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: We feel like it's almost like the ecosystem does not 145 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: leave a space for that for us. And I see 146 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: it changing, and I feel like I've been a small 147 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: part of that change. 148 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: What do you suggest now? Do you suggest that if 149 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: in a negotiation for a bitter salary or a promotion, 150 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: you use a lawyer. 151 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: So my suggestion for women, depending on where you are 152 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: in your career, if you're starting out, you have to 153 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: learn to speak for yourself, and you should speak again 154 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: and again and again, and you should expect to get 155 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: a lot of nos. And those nos are valuable because 156 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: then you can ask again three months later and six 157 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: months later, and you can circle back. You can literally 158 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: use the words I want to circle back to that 159 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: conversation we were having a few months ago, and then 160 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: add the data and get used to speaking for yourself. 161 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: Like the advice I give to women about how do 162 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: you talk during a negotiation is talk talk about it, 163 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: bring it up, don't make it the only thing. Don't 164 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: feel like that's it, that's the only thing. You see 165 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: this person and you know they're going to ask for 166 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,359 Speaker 2: a raise. I mean, connect and gauge, build a relationship. 167 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: But also speak for yourself when it comes to advocating 168 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 2: for yourself and talking about what your value is. And 169 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: you should be able to do it in a minute 170 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: or less. Oh that's good, that's good. A minute or 171 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: not too many words. Please don't fill the room with words. 172 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: So you've been very honest too about the times that 173 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: you accepted less than you deserved. Why do we accept 174 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: less than we're worth? We want the job so badly? 175 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, grateful and they should be grateful for us 176 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: and we don't. I don't know why we can't turn 177 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: that equation around naturally. I've had to really learn to 178 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: realize that I am more than worth it, Like they're 179 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: lucky to have me. Took a long time to be able 180 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: to put that into words and to say it to someone. 181 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: And you got to be able to I mean, you 182 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 2: have to really know that they are lucky to have you. 183 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: You are not necessarily sitting in gratitude at all moments. 184 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: I know that's an important value, gratitude, but not to 185 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: the point where you depreciate your value. And I think 186 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: women apologize into the door and then they self deprecate 187 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: their way through a conversation, and by the end of 188 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: the conversation they have decreased their value. And so we've 189 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: got to turn that around without it feeling clunky, without 190 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: it feeling awkward or agro. As the young girls say, Mom, 191 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: that's so agro, and I was like, what is that? 192 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: They're like aggressive? Apparently agro. 193 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: So during these this big process, what did you find 194 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: out about the scope of gender disparity. 195 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: It's widespread, and it starts at the beginning. It starts 196 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: at the beginning of a young woman's career. She has 197 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: paid less and never catches up, and we are closing 198 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: in on that. And there are so many different things 199 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: that are happening at the same time that are helping 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: with that. It's not just women like you and me 201 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 2: paving that long runway showing women that well, after fifty sixty, 202 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: seventy eighty, these are your best years. These are the 203 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: most powerful years. These are the years you can do 204 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: anything you want and you can get the most value 205 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: back out of every relationship. That tells younger women simmer down. 206 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: It's not a rush. There is not a ticking clock. 207 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: You can go through some experiences. You can have a 208 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: job you hate, you can have two jobs you hate. 209 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: You know, you can even figure out relationships and have 210 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: a hard time there. And it's not the end of 211 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: the world that you hit thirty or forty. It's not 212 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: even close to it. 213 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: Who were you negotiating with when you were when you 214 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: accepted a lesser salary than the men around you. 215 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: Well, every job I had up until morning, Joe, So 216 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: that would be MSNBC, the first time, CBS, the first time, MSNBC, 217 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: the second time, CBS, the second time, I kind. 218 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: Of talker and you were the same age as your counterparts. Yeah, 219 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: or younger, No, that's the same age. Sometimes older. I 220 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: mean I just you know, I took, always took the 221 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: first offer. I was always so lucky to get it. 222 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes I was a little younger, so I thought, oh, 223 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: this is my opportunity, and then I never caught up. 224 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: But it was this neediness that was like to be 225 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 2: part of the gang and to have the deal, to 226 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: have that safety, to be able to support my family. 227 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of pressures to negotiate a deal. 228 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 2: You're trying to you're trying to get security for your family, 229 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: and so it's stressful and I think women we clamor 230 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: to safety. Well, men will burn down the house before 231 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 2: they get what they want. And like they're family in it, 232 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: so to speak. But I don't mean it like so terribly. 233 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: I mean it like they know to push the envelope, 234 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: they know to take out rageous risks in a negotiation. 235 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: Joe took out rageous risks with the entire organization of 236 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: Morning Joe when he was Negotia Joe is. 237 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: Joe Scarborough and Mika's now hasband former co host Yep 238 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, he's he always seemed to be very very adamant. 239 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 2: Well, and what men do. And I'll use Joe as 240 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 2: an example here. I think you won't mind. But men 241 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: will even lie, Martha, They'll just lie. They'll just be like, 242 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: I can do this, I can do that, I can 243 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: do that. 244 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: Well. 245 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Women are like, well, I don't really have those skills, 246 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: but I could learn. Like men are like whatever it 247 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: takes in the negotiation, They're so confident and they don't 248 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: remember what they say. So I think that's half of 249 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: the beauty for them. They're completely free while we're sitting 250 00:13:46,920 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: there parsing every word and remembering our prep. Well, I'm 251 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 2: looking at the cover of your book, Know your value. 252 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: What a beautiful picture of you. That's kind of a 253 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: while ago. 254 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: Who took that? Joe, Oh, Joe took that picture of Wow, 255 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: it's fabulous. 256 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: Yep. 257 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: This is for every single woman listening. This is a 258 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: very important conversation to hear because I totally agree with 259 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: Mika that women roll over and that's wrong. It is wrong, 260 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: and you don't have to. 261 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: You don't have to. And I do think that you know, 262 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: we've come a long way. Baby, Back in the day, 263 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: I think you and I when we were in our twenties. 264 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: I guess I won't speak for you, but I think 265 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: you'll agree. I think women felt like there was a 266 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: clock ticking on their lives, and there were certain things 267 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: they needed to check off, and there was this whole 268 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: habit all thing which was ridiculous. 269 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: Well I knew early on you couldn't have it all. 270 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: Oh as I got divorced early on, I mean after 271 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: well twenty seven years of marriage. But I had gotten 272 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: married so young, yeah, so young that I realized, yeah, 273 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: I was paid. But when you go through all that stuff, 274 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: you come out. You do come out stronger, of course, 275 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: and my career has been phenomenal doing all the things 276 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: I've done. But it's so interesting to realize that there 277 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: are still these inequalities, and there are still hurdles that 278 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: should not be there for women. 279 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: There are, And you don't want to get me started 280 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: on how far back women have been pushed. I want 281 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: to talk about the good news, yes, and the good 282 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: news is that you know from the times that we 283 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: were getting into the adult years of our life. I 284 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: don't think women have the ticking clock anymore. I think 285 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: we are living longer, we are living healthier, we are 286 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: living smarter and more beautifully and way more beautifully. Like 287 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: beauty is so not for the young anymore, it's for 288 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: all of us. And I actually think it gets richer 289 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: and more dynamic as we become more mature, and that's 290 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: something that's like really new on the landscape for twenty years. 291 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: I'll also say, every time there is a moment for women, 292 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: and there's one every day, every time there's a moment 293 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: where a woman steps out of the boundaries of what 294 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: we're supposed to be doing, she does that for every woman. 295 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: And I think of like, I mean, it's totally a 296 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: different thing. It's amazing. And so this is the good 297 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: news that we keep pushing the boundaries for ourselves and 298 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: allowing ourselves to be seen in different ways shapes and forms, 299 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: and even being aggressive and that's seen is awesome. And 300 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: so I think that's the good news is in the 301 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: headway that we make. And I think there's a lot 302 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: happening in that space. But we all have to be 303 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: a part of it. We all have to take part 304 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: in it. We have to try things that perhaps we 305 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't have tried before. Well, you're reaching how many women 306 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,359 Speaker 2: know a whole no, no, your value, We're oh, my gosh, 307 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: we're global now I believe I'm saying that, but we 308 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: started actually, so I'm like, I'm fifty nine now, and 309 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 2: when I turned fifty, I was like, wait a minute, 310 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: I'm still here and I'm still pretty good at what 311 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 2: I do and haven't been fired and put out there 312 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 2: that like, whoa, wait a minute, fifty feels so different 313 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: than what I thought it was going to feel like. 314 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: And now I'm at sixty almost and it only feels 315 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 2: like it's just beginning. And so I started the fifty 316 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 2: over fifty list, partnered with Forbes because they do those 317 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: great lists. So I went to the chief head of Forbes, 318 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: Randall Lane. I was like, Randall, you need a fifty 319 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: over fifty list. 320 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: Let's do it. 321 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's just thirty over thirty, thirty under thirty. I mean, 322 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: come on, they're great, and thirty under thirty is this global, 323 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: huge behemoth right for Forbes. And I was like, but Randall, 324 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: think about fifty over fifty and he goes, yeah, kind 325 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: of a good idea. So we started it six years ago, 326 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: our first fifty over which you were on the list. 327 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: Two years ago, our first fifty fifty list, Martha. So 328 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: the thirty Under thirty list, which is like huge. Now, 329 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 2: they had a couple hundred nominations. It's nice a couple 330 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: hundred fifty or fifty had over ten thousand in the 331 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: first run with just one month of mentioning it on 332 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: Morning Joe and over ten thousand and two women were 333 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: forty nine and a half and they were lying up, ooh, 334 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 2: isn't that cool? 335 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: We wanted to be part. 336 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: They wanted to and we were like, no, no, sorry, 337 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: you're too young. 338 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: Well let's get back to the actual business, the Morning 339 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: Joe business. Okay, you've had a big upheaval. And Morning 340 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: Joe was on MSNBC for how many years? Thirty Rock 341 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: under NBC for nineteen years? Nineteen years. That was a 342 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: partnership between you and Joe Scarborough. Yes, which was an 343 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: essentially very important morning program. 344 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Willie Geis we're the longest running anchor team. 345 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: Yes on TV. Yes. Yeah, and fabulous, I mean yeah, 346 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: everybody's tuned in. 347 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: We have so much fun. 348 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: You're on my car in the morning, and you're in 349 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: my TV in the kitchen in the morning when I 350 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: and I get up real early and I need to 351 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: sit up straight. Oh yes, Okay, but you've really recently reorganized. 352 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: Tell us about the reorganization, because this is a it's complex, 353 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: but it's also very interesting it's going on. 354 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 2: So we were spun off. We are no longer connected 355 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: with NBC News, and we are now our own company, 356 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 2: which is called Versant, and our network is called ms Now. 357 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: Everyone was like, oh my god, can you believe it? 358 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: You're leaving thirty Rock. How sad are you? And I'm 359 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: thinking to myself, I, okay, I didn't feel it. I'm 360 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: not like attached to a building. In fact, I think 361 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: we're here now. And I walked back into thirty Rock 362 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: to come here for you, and I was like, that's 363 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: across the street through. Yes, I walked through, and I 364 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I'm good. Because Morning Joe's a family 365 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: and a brand in itself, and. 366 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: It is indeed a family it is. 367 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 2: And we are Joe and I are all about the 368 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: people of Morning Joe. Not a place. We do that 369 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: show anywhere, as you know, anywhere. We've done it from Florida, 370 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 2: We've done it from main all everywhere, coffee shops, amasement basements, 371 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: you name it. We can do the show. But even 372 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: more so, it's just it's the people. So the spin 373 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 2: off felt to a lot of people like, oh my gosh, 374 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: it's a goodbye, or what's going to happen? It's so 375 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: much uncertainty. For us, it felt like a really natural 376 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: new progression and something that we have been dreaming about 377 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: for years. And I'll tell you why. When we were 378 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: under the auspices of NBC, there were so many great 379 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: benefits to that that I can't even begin You know, 380 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 2: obviously obviously NBC News, but there was also a containment. 381 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: NBC has their way of doing things. NBC had many 382 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: layers to it, and so to get a yes on 383 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: a concept would take months. Now MS now they actually 384 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: emphasize be entrepreneurial, try new things, find new ways, reach 385 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 2: new audiences. So we're doing things on YouTube, We're coming 386 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: up with new things for the show. We have kind 387 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: of a new freedom to really think about where this 388 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 2: show is going in the future, hiring talent, finding the 389 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: brightest minds. It's been kind of an. 390 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: Exciting exponential opportunity. Yes it. Yeah, And your work partner 391 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: who is now you're also married partner, Joe Scarborough. How 392 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: do you manage contract negotiations the two of you. 393 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: The same I mean we both learned from each other. 394 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: I think that every negotiation has been the same as 395 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: when the show started. I think sometimes we're a little 396 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 2: good cop, bad cop and when necessary, but it's still business. 397 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: And the thing about know your value and teaching about 398 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: negotiating is that now your value is a life skill. 399 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: It's not just about getting more money at work, even 400 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 2: though that's where it started. It is about Martha getting 401 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: value back in every relationship. And it is the same skills. 402 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 2: It is making sure that you matter in the conversation, 403 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 2: whether or not you're negotiating with your bosses, or your 404 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 2: spouse or your children. And it isn't life is a negotiation. 405 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 2: You make sure you get that value back that you 406 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: are respected in the conversation. So it's the same. It's funner, funner, 407 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 2: it's funner, well and good. 408 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish you best of luck with all of 409 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: this because it is it's very interesting to see evolution 410 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: in media. Yeah, magazines have closed, television programs have closed. 411 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: Viewership is down, cable is up. Then cable becomes more 412 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: social media and that's more important. But you're everywhere, You're everywhere, 413 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: You're interviewing the most fascinating people in politics in the 414 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: entire world all the time, and you are You're keeping 415 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: us abreast of what's going on in a very elucid 416 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: and important way. That's why I watch Morning Joe. Yeah, 417 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: and I love your commentators. I love all the best 418 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: people you Jim, who are your favorites? You're god, you have. 419 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: You have like a family. Yeah, who are the regular 420 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: Mike Ronicle, Juan Robinson. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna miss people. 421 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, Johnathan Lamia now is a co host. 422 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: Jackie Alamany is really a bright ali vitally the host 423 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: of Way Too Early. So Joe, Willie and I we 424 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: feel like to use I think Mike said that. Senator 425 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: Ted Kennedy said this once to him. Ted Kennedy saw 426 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 2: Mike on Morning Joe, like twenty years ago and said, Hey, 427 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: looks like you slipped into a tub of butter. 428 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's a. 429 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: Good way of putting it. We have slipped into a 430 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: tub of butter. It is. It is like a dinner 431 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: party every morning, like Joe sometimes says, we never go out, 432 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: we don't socialize, And I'm like Joe, every morning every morning, 433 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: like by the time, no. 434 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: You have you not only have a good time. You 435 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: are educating in the very nicest possible, high minded way. 436 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 2: It feels like if my dinner table grows, yes, where 437 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: my dad would put throw a bomb in the middle 438 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: of the table and have us debate it. When my 439 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: Republican brother, my Democrat brother, me in the middle, my 440 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,719 Speaker 2: mom the artist. I have to tell you. When the 441 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: first morning Joe happened, I was like, why do I 442 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 2: feel so at home? And I realized this is what 443 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: we did at home. We would debate issues. We try 444 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 2: and do it civilly. Sometimes we'd end up punching each 445 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: other and the turkey would end up on the front lawn. 446 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: But most of the time it went really well and 447 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: we would all learn something. 448 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, describe your father to us, because a lot of 449 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: people don't know how important your father was. 450 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad, Well, for me, he was one of 451 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: the funniest people all Brazinski, Yes you knew him, I do, 452 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 2: and uh. He was National Security Advisor under President Carter, 453 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 2: But he really was, along with brent S. Gocroft and 454 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: maybe Henry's Kissinger, a statesman, the most pre eminent foreign 455 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: policy strategist geopolitical thinker of the modern age of the 456 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: historic age of all time. 457 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: And that physician is sorely lacking all over the world 458 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: right now. 459 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: Every morning I shake my head every morning at least 460 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: once I go God, I miss my dad, and I 461 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: usually miss him. You know what I'm saying. As a daughter, 462 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: I miss him so much. But as a human in 463 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: this planet, as an American citizen, I miss my father. 464 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well we do. We missed. We missed that 465 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: kind of clearheaded thinking that's also sensible thinking, that's also 466 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: high thinking than what's happening. 467 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: And deeply rooted in history. 468 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: Yep. And your mom. 469 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 2: The sculptures, my mom, she would say, I am an artist. 470 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: I'm a sculptor. Martha, my mom. I have a present 471 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: for you that has a little bit of her her 472 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: style on it. No, my mother was an incredible artist 473 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: who has huge, huge sculptures all over the world. On 474 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: the river in Prague, outside the Federal Reserve in Washington, 475 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: d C. On my property in Maine. You need to come. 476 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: I've done a whole studio of her things. I can't 477 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: wait to show it to you. But her pieces are 478 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 2: like two stories high. Some of them are in bronze, 479 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: and they're outdoors. Some of them are all. She worked 480 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 2: in wood with a chainsaw and an axe, and they're 481 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 2: all monumental in size, and she was just she was 482 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: her own incredible force of a person, an artist, a 483 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: true artist. Then that was my problem with confidence actually, 484 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: as I thought, I can't even half measure up to 485 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: either of them. I don't know what happened here, So 486 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: I had to find my own way. I like to 487 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 2: lift up beautiful talent and I know how to identify it. 488 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: And I think it's because of my parents with their 489 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: brilliance and their very unique, specific, deep talent, and so 490 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: I like to raise up others and I make sure 491 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 2: that I have the power to do so that's what 492 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: I am. 493 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: So back to nitty gritty of pay and pay, equity 494 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: and negotiation. What are the most common mistakes women make 495 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: when they're asking for a raise and should they ask 496 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: for a raise? Yes? And how often are we with 497 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: all the time? 498 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: So you shouldn't ask for a raise right when you 499 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 2: walk in the door. I mean, I've definitely had people 500 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: interview working for me, you know, asking questions that are 501 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: maybe a little early. So it's like you have to 502 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: you have to show your value. Yes, you have to 503 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: show your value is to grow your value, and then 504 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 2: you have to know your value. And that's a long process. 505 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 2: But you have to get used to talking about your value, 506 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: and you have to practice it, and you have to 507 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: get good at it. And the way you do that 508 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: is by talking, and by trying to do it and 509 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: making the mistakes and then trying again. And I would 510 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: say that when it comes to asking for a raise, 511 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 2: you've got to ask, like you have to ask, and 512 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 2: you have to find the words and have the data 513 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: to back it up. No drama, no, you know, honestly, 514 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: the last thing you and I need of somebody who's 515 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 2: coming and asking us for something is a lot of 516 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: words and a lot of talking, like we don't have 517 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: the time, so that needs to be respected and getting 518 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 2: to the point is so I love that. I don't 519 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: know about you, but I love it when someone gets 520 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 2: right to the point. 521 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: What language should women avoid when advocating for compensation. 522 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: They should avoid over talking, over preparing and bringing emotion 523 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: into it. The language they should avoid is no language 524 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: like not talking, not at bringing it up, not circling 525 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: back to it. I think a lot of women would 526 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: rather someone else do it for them, or they'd rather 527 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 2: avoid the conversation, and it's something that has to be confronted, 528 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: and the more you do it, the better you get 529 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: at it. And no one is going to fire you 530 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: for asking for more, and if they do, that's a 531 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 2: good good thing to know. 532 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: How do you advise women who respond that they're told 533 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: there's no budget. 534 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: Oh, there's no no for a reason. So many times 535 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: have you heard that? Maybe you've never heard it because 536 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: you're so but I have heard that a million really, 537 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: and I've been like, Okay, No, there's always money to 538 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: be found, there's always there's always a way to make 539 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: it happen. Now, I will say we get impatient. I 540 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: do think a year is totally unacceptable, but sometimes we 541 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: want that deal so badly that we jump to it 542 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: when we get it, And you do have to let 543 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 2: that situation drag out a little bit and wait it 544 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 2: out so they know you're serious about your numbers. 545 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: Have you found it's easier to negotiate with men or 546 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: women by a lot of HR executives are women. Yeah. 547 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: I am at the point in my life where it 548 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: doesn't matter because I know how to speak for myself 549 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: and I know what's acceptable for me, and I won't settle. 550 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: But I think it's for people still coming up and 551 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: trying to practice this. There is a difference, and I 552 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: really don't know what that difference is going to be 553 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: for you, because it's a dynamic in the room that 554 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: you have to kind of get your head around and 555 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: then own it. And I would urge that you slow down, 556 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: you're mindful in the conversation, don't beat agressive, don't be well. 557 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: I don't mind aggressive as long as you're just being 558 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: very clear. 559 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: Not whiny or difficult. 560 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: No whiny, no over talking. Sometimes women, I think sometimes 561 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: we get nervous and our voices get high pitched and 562 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: we fill the room with words. And honestly, you're not 563 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: here to make friends necessary. Yeah, that you're not here 564 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 2: to make the person comfortable. Sometimes we feel we need 565 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: to make the person feel comfortable and fill the room 566 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: with words. And I would suggest that pauses are incredibly 567 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: powerful and silence can be deafening. Yes, I love silence. 568 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: Just sit there and wait sometimes for that answer, and 569 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: maybe wait after you've heard it for a minute, for 570 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 2: a moment, for a beat, and then say, you know, 571 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: I have to really think about that. 572 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you handle being labeled so difficult or. 573 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 2: So I was literally told that by some but he 574 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: who was telling me not to get a raise, that 575 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: is a moment where you need to push back in 576 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: real time. I mean, unless you're a pain in the ass, 577 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: you know you're gonna have to be self aware. I mean, 578 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: but if you were good at what you do and 579 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: you're being told that your request is difficult, I can 580 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 2: tell you that I had a real time experience with 581 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: that in negotiating my Morning Joe's salary when I was 582 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 2: trying to get that raise, and it was a female 583 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: vice president who brought me in and obviously was put 584 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: up to it and said, this is really not a 585 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: good time for you to ask for that raise. And 586 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 2: people are starting to think you're a problem. 587 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: A woman is telling you that. 588 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will tell you that those are the moments. 589 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Now, were you married to Joe or a partner at 590 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: that time or not. 591 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 2: I was hosting Mourning Joe. Oh yeah, but I don't 592 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 2: think we were married at all. And so I remember 593 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: find going like this, Oh my god, am I problem? 594 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god? Do people not like me like we 595 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: believe that? 596 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: Woll shit? 597 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: And I will tell you right now, there is not 598 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: one person who would ever say that to me. It 599 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: is an entire demeanor where you command respect and it's 600 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 2: really important you do it beautifully. I'm working on it 601 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: and it would never be said to me today, not once. 602 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: And the fact that that could be said to me 603 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: told me something about what I was giving in my demeanor, 604 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: and what needed in that moment was for me to 605 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: push back in real time and say, you know what, 606 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: you're wrong. I will be going for this race and 607 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: I will continue going for it until I get it, 608 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: and thank you though for your time and for your 609 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: point of view. Don't agree, And if I had done that, 610 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: we'd be friends today. You know, you can have a 611 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: dust up with someone and end up more respected and 612 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: really good friends with that person, But if you cower, 613 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 2: you'll never have a relationship. And we didn't. 614 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: What role do managers and companies need to play in 615 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: closing the pay gap? 616 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: They really need to look at it and make sure 617 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: that men and women are paid equally, and honestly, I've 618 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 2: even seen some companies that have done that, that have 619 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 2: opened up the books and equalized. I think it sends 620 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 2: an incredible message. It's a culture thing. I think people 621 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: in companies at work can help with this by stepping 622 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: up for I mean, I've often gotten involved with other 623 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 2: people's negotiations. 624 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: You know, when I started my company, Martha Stewart Living, 625 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: I found that we were about eighty percent creative and 626 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: twenty percent business. 627 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 2: Huh. 628 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: And yet business people were requesting much higher salaries than 629 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: the creative people. So I had that complication in addition 630 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: to men versus women. But I was so lucky because 631 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: we were primarily a woman run company and primarily a 632 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: woman I mean more women, maybe eighty percent women, twenty 633 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: percent men. So I was lucky during all these years 634 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: that women were treated at least as equals exactly, and 635 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: that talent didn't matter whether it was an educated talent 636 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: from Harvard Business School or from Parsons School of Design. 637 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: It had to be paid the same good. Yeah, and 638 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: that I kept that soul. But I find elsewhere that 639 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: it's not like that. It's not there is still the 640 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: business guys are getting paid more, the salaries are much bigger, 641 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: the creatives are left in the dust. And I think 642 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: that that is just a really bad way. 643 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: To It's literally to be the other way around. Have 644 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: you ever had a moment in your life where you 645 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: didn't know your value. It's kind of hard for me 646 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 2: to imagine. 647 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: No, not really, because I've always been self employed. Yep, 648 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: you know. Self employment is also a very good way 649 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: to get to know your value really fast because you're 650 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: building a business around your own that's right, Yeah, then 651 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: everything happens, you know, But no, I think that that 652 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: helps a lot. If you're entrepreneurial, is a kind of 653 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: a different situation than if you're actually working for a salary. 654 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: I've never worked for a salary ever until recently when 655 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: my company was bought by a licensing company. And then 656 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: there is a salary which is minuscule but not important 657 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: because it's it's not based on that. I mean, it's 658 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: just a number. But I actually really sympathize with anybody 659 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: who is on a salary that is not equal to 660 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: other people in the company doing the same thing who 661 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: happen to be male. 662 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: It's a really it actually gets in you're crazy, Oh 663 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 2: it does, and it makes you angry, and then you know, 664 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: I realized I had to like do something severe that 665 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 2: I couldn't go on with the show unless we fix 666 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 2: the problem, because then my anger would my performance would 667 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 2: wane with become bad. So it's like I had to 668 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 2: fight for myself. I didn't realize that actually fighting for 669 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 2: myself would make me better on television. Because when I 670 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: got that money, I got that raise, I sat down 671 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 2: in my chair and it was better on television. 672 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 1: Very few people have really approached the subject the way 673 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: you have and been so very instrumental in helping so 674 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: many women, and that should be applauded. Really, I congratulate 675 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: you on doing that. It's really great, thank you, and 676 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: so many people love you for that, oh really, and 677 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: truly for women who stepped away from the workplace, and 678 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: there are quite a few who have their children, they 679 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: watch their children go to college, yes, and then they 680 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: want to re enter the workplace. That's a difficult place 681 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: to be, it is. 682 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 2: And we actually I did a book with my sister 683 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 2: in law who actually was in that position, called Comeback Careers, 684 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 2: and we take a look at that and all the 685 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 2: kind of different challenges of trying to re enter the. 686 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: Workforce, reclaim your confidence, reclaim. 687 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 2: Your confidence, but also get like technologically up to date 688 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: and kind of you know. But there's such a selling 689 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 2: point and this is what I actually Donny Deutsch, who 690 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 2: gave who made me realize this. He's like, I love 691 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 2: hiring women over fifty who were like doing in the 692 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 2: on ramp And I'm like, why are you cheap? He's like, 693 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: I'm not cheap. They're my best paid. He goes, let 694 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: me tell you something. Women over fifty need to sell. 695 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 2: What's great about them. They're experienced, They've run things, even 696 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: if it's a household. They're done with all that stuff 697 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,240 Speaker 2: that distracts human life, like divorces and raising little kids 698 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 2: and people getting sick, and they're there to work great, 699 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 2: to focus, Yeah, and sell it like that's like, I 700 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 2: believe me, I'm interested in that. 701 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: That's very good. Yeah, it's very That does add confidence 702 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: to somebody trying to re enter the work. 703 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: I mean, that's your bottom line. Man. 704 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: You say that you wrote your books in large part 705 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: for your daughters. How do you see them adopting the 706 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: lessons that they've shared through knowing your value? 707 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 2: What's so interesting is that they're helping me take nor 708 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 2: value into the next generation because they're now starting out 709 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 2: their lives and so they're constantly correcting me on certain 710 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: things and tweaking me. So that's cool. I love that. 711 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 2: But all of this is for them. I want them 712 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: to enjoy the long runway. I don't want them to 713 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: ever feel like I did, to feel like they had 714 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 2: to rush through everything and check things off the list 715 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 2: and have it all, which is just a way of 716 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: putting pressure on women to do too many things. At 717 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 2: the same time, I want them to pace themselves, to 718 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: enjoy themselves, and to learn from every moment. And that 719 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 2: was something that if I could do things over again, 720 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 2: that's the way I'd do it. And so that's my 721 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: hope and dream for them. 722 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: So what are those few daily habits you suggest to 723 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: women who are thinking of re entering or improving their workplace. 724 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 2: I'd say, make sure you look for each other. I'd 725 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 2: say pay it forward if you have any power or 726 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 2: financial independence and I share it. I'd invest in women. 727 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 2: I think mentoring is cute, but I think really investing 728 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 2: and showing a woman her value and paying it forward 729 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 2: is the way we get from pointing. 730 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: If you're in the position to give a raise or 731 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: to give a promotion, do it right and explain why. 732 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 2: I don't wait, don't wait. I mean, we have a 733 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 2: lot of. 734 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: Work to do, and if every woman listening could take 735 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: one action this week to better know her value of 736 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: what would you tell her to do? 737 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 2: I'd say, take out your phone and say, in a 738 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 2: minute or less, what your value is, what it is 739 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: that you bring to the table, and why you're fabulous 740 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 2: and you deserve a bonus right now, and then look 741 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 2: at how many times you erase it and do it again. 742 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 2: Start getting good at that. Then if you're really bad 743 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 2: at it, maybe have a few friends over, get out 744 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 2: a bottle of wine, stand up on a chair and 745 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 2: do it again, and have your friends critique you. And 746 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 2: also know what it feels like to stand on a 747 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 2: chair and talk to a group of people looking really 748 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 2: close at you, because this is what yeah, yeah, especially 749 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: if you're drinking, but literally, these are the moments you're 750 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 2: looking at yourself on a phone or you're standing in 751 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 2: front of your friends. That's what it feels like in 752 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 2: a negotiation. It feels really weird and invasive. So practice. 753 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. What good advice, Mika, And thank you very much 754 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: for sharing your thoughts and your experiences with our audience. 755 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: Please let our listeners know where they can follow you 756 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: to continue learning to know your value. 757 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, all the know your value social channels 758 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 2: You'll find them everywhere, and I'll be looking for you. 759 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 1: Thank you, Martha, well, thank you. Don't forget to watch 760 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: Morning Joe in the morning so you can see Mika 761 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: in action and learn at the same time. Yeah, well, 762 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: thank you very great for having me.