WEBVTT - Sensationalized After Death | Roseann Quinn 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.400 You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.120 are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.560 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.280 This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.120 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.920 and iHeartRadio. We are your host. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.360 I'm a veg and tee Lay and I'm her baby sister, 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.520 Rashia Piccuerrero, and as always, our favorite Texan Trevor Young 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:42.240 is here as well. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:43.680 Hello, Hello, welcome back. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.519 I wish we were all together still, but I do 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.559 love that we're virtually together. I have a question for 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:56.760 you all. So I am not the biggest book reader 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.200 like I used to be, and I think with social 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.200 media and with screens and everything, I feel like I 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.320 kind of let that get away from me. But lately 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:08.679 I've been reading a ton of autobiographies and right now 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:14.160 I am obsessed with Simu Liu's book and Semu Liu. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.520 For those of you who don't know, he is Marvel's 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.959 superhero Shang Chi and he has a book out called 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:26.479 We Were Dreamers, an immigrant superhero origin story, and it's 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:32.240 so like just beautiful to see what his parents went through, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.440 you know, they immigrated from China to Canada. And then 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.920 of course he's here now in America. But I want 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.000 to know, what are the two of you reading? What 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.759 inspires you when you're not here with me on Facing Evil? 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.080 Well, you know, I really love books. I love to 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.920 hold them. I like the smell of them, and especially 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.800 during the pandemic. Like, I've read so many different autobiographies, 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.440 but the book that I am on right now is 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.840 viol Davis, which is called Finding Me. And you know, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.200 I've always been a huge fan of hers, but to 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.000 read her story and where she came from and where 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.760 she is now is truly inspiring. What about you, Trevor. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.880 So, I've got about three books I'm in the middle of. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.359 I'm one of those people who's like reading a bunch 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.480 of different stuff at once and like puts one down 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.720 for a couple of days and moves on to another. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.280 Of course you are, I love it. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:32.720 Yeah, So on my mantle, I've got a collection of 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.800 stories by J. R. R. Tolkien. It's The Unfinished Tales, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.720 which is, as the name implies, a bunch of unfinished 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.239 stories that he had written that kind of fit into 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.359 the world of Middle Earth, which is Lord of the 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.799 Rings for this, Yeah, I'm also reading a biography of 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:54.679 Anthony Bourdain which is really good and then love it. Yeah, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.040 I miss him. And then I'm also reading the fourth 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.640 installment of Frank Kurbert's doing series. Dune is one of 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.280 my favorite sci fi series, and I'm almost about the 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.639 fourth book, which is called God Emperor of Dune. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.239 How many books are there in Dune? 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.400 So there are six main books that Frank Herbert Rose 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:18.160 the primary author. His son Brian Herbert has kind of 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.720 carried on his legacy writing a bunch of spinoff series 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.760 in prequel series. A lot of the fans of the 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.359 Dune series don't super love those books, so I kind 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.680 of take a grain of salt with the spinoffs. But 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.440 if we're talking like core canon, it's just those six books. 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.520 The six so there could potentially be six movies, got it? 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.600 Or more because they're very long. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.080 Right right, right, right, right right? 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.240 With that being said, Trevor, will you take us through 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:45.960 today's case. 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.160 Roseanne Quinn was a twenty eight year old woman who 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.839 was killed on New Year's Day of nineteen seventy three. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.040 She was a school teacher and a single woman who 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.200 lived by herself in New York City. On the evening 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.440 of January first, she went to a bar in her neighborhood. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.240 There she met a man named John Wayne Wilson, and 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.120 the two went back to her apartment together. When she 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.720 didn't show up for work a few days later, a 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.559 coworker went to go check in on her. They found 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.920 Roseanne Quinn dead, stabbed to death in her own apartment. 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.520 A manhunt began for Wilson, who was eventually found and arrested, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.640 but while in jail, he hanged himself, and so no 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.560 charges were ever officially filed in the murder of Roseanne Quinn. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.120 After Roseanne was killed, many criticized her sexual proclivities, suggesting 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.680 a so called promiscuous lifestyle was the reason for her murder, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.240 but since then feminist scholars have pointed out that this 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.000 rhetoric was both false and harmful. The events also inspired 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.279 a popular novel and subsequent movie, Looking for Mister Goodbar 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.000 and So. Who was Roseanne Quinn? What were the actual 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.559 events surrounding her death and how did those of create 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.560 the perfect conditions for a national media frenzy. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.919 So when I think about this case, I think about 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.360 us needing to flip the script, right, Like I feel 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.719 like Roseanne was portrayed a certain way, and you know 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.920 what happened to her is one of those things that like, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.360 it's all of our worst nightmare, right Eve, Like, yeah, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.840 you know going home with someone or in this case, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.840 you're bringing them into your own home and then you 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.880 end up getting murdered. I mean, it's horrible to even 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.000 think about. I know this happened, you know with Angela's 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.480 Simota that we just spoke about not that long ago. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.840 But it's yeah, the worst worst thing you can imagine happening, right, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:44.520 just you. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.839 Know, coming home from a night of dancing or partying 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.240 and you know, going to your safe space at home. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.080 It you know, it's just, yeah, it's really devastating. And 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.839 this is one of those cases in which the true 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.360 story of what happened to Rosennu in nineteen seventy three, 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.000 it has almost been overshadowed by this book that I 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.640 was speaking of earlier and the movie Russia. Did you 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.440 ever see the movie Looking for Mister Goodbar? 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.560 You know, I never did, And you know, I always 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.160 try to watch documentaries or movies or anything about all 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:21.880 of the cases that we're covering so that it can 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.000 kind of get into my brain even more. I mean, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.440 on top of all the research that are amazing researcher 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.039 Claudia helps us with, but I couldn't even find it. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.200 I mean, I know that Diane Keaton starred in it, 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.400 but I couldn't even get a snippet of it on YouTube. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.240 Well, I mean, you know, you can get like snippets 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.640 of it, but it's so hard to find the entire movie, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.120 you know, in its entirety, like unless you go out 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.719 and probably rent it somewhere. But I don't even know. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.520 Are there Blockbuster? Are there Idyot? Those video plays? 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.640 I think left? Yeah, ever have you seen the movie? 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.840 I have not seen the movie, though I've read quite 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.120 a bit about it, and my understanding is that it 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:05.680 didn't have the most tasteful representation of what Roseanne went 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.040 through or how best to portray her. I mean, I 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.280 think that flipped the script thing that you mentioned earlier. 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.000 Rashia is a big part of the story, and we're 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.120 going to talk about it a lot today. But you know, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.520 the fact that she, essentially, according to the media, wasn't 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.960 allowed to do this thing that is very natural and, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.120 at least in today's world, considered to be an expectation 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.800 for anybody who has a social life. Right, that that 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.320 was somehow, you know, her fault for pursuing any sort 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:40.600 of relationship outside of a domestic family situation. So again, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.040 I haven't seen the movie, but my understanding is that 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.360 it didn't portray that very well. So I guess I'm 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.240 a little bit turned off by it, but maybe I'll 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:49.240 change my mind on that. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.560 Yeah, Trevor, what you're saying, I can totally see that, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:57.280 because this happened at a time in history that there 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.640 was this huge cultural flashpoint, right, an era of a revolution. 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.760 This was the second wave of the feminist movement, and 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.080 the purpose of that feminist movement was to champion reproductive 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.800 and workplace rights and to redefine the expectations of women's 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.960 personal and political lives. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.240 Yeah, it's interesting timing wise that this was this case 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.360 happened right in the middle of this second wave feminist movement. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.480 But generally what you are seeing is that, you know, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.880 it's more common to have more single career women and 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.680 it's more common for you know, women to not settle 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.319 down super fast and have children and want to get 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.400 married and all those things. And this is all happening 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.920 in the sixties and seventies, as you know, all sorts 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.360 of other things are happening with the cultural revolutions. So 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.480 you also get expanded access to birth control. The pill 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.640 was first approved by the FDA in nineteen sixty, but 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.200 it took the Supreme Court case in nineteen seventy two 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.240 for it to become legal for unmarried women. Wow. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.200 Wow, I didn't know that. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.640 I mean, that is just crazy. But the next year, 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:10.960 of course, you have Roe versus Wade, and that's legalizing abortion. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.360 And this was a huge time and we can get 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.400 into a whole discussion about this, you know. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.600 Ye a whole nother cantor we won't. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:21.520 Yeah. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.520 But meanwhile, you know, there are a lot more women 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.079 working outside of the home, you know, so they were 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.240 moving into a space where they could control their own bodies, 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:37.160 do their own thing, both professionally and sexually. And the 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.040 idea of casual sex was you know, i'd say, gaining 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.280 more acceptance, especially during you know, the sixties and the seventies, 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.520 and during this time, but you know, not everywhere, but 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.360 in places like New York absolutely, Like I think it 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.160 was definitely more acceptable. Think so, yeah, And I think 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.720 that brings us back to Roseanne Quinn and that's where 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:01.320 she was living in New York. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.080 Absolutely, she was She was born and raised in the 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.440 Bronx and this was in nineteen forty four. She was 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.400 a big part of a Catholic family of five, and 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.080 you know, she grew up in this very nice middle 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:20.400 class upbringing, and then the family eventually moved to New 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:25.319 Jersey and she graduated high school in nineteen sixty two 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.760 and she got a degree in elementary education. So of 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:34.280 course she becomes a teacher, which is obviously a very 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.120 traditional job, you know, for a female at the time, 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.720 right at the time, but she began teaching at Saint 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.440 Joseph's School for the Death in the Bronx and she 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.960 taught eight year old kids, and from what we understand, 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.480 she was apparently just be loved by her students and 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.680 her fellow teachers, So it seems like she had really 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:00.280 found her calling. She really enjoyed, you know, teaching the 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:01.000 deaf kids. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.680 Yeah, and earlier that year, in May, she moved into 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.320 her very own two bedroom apartment on the Upper west 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.960 Side in a building that's actually still there. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.280 Yeah. I was going to say, you know, now on 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.680 the Upper west Side, you know, to have a teacher's salary, 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.520 you could not touch that. It would be untouched odly now, right, 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.280 But back then, you know, she's living on her own 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.760 on the Upper west Side, Like, what a life. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.120 Yeah, I'm sure it's a very nice apartment, but yeah, 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.839 I doubt she could afford that today, right, Yeah, Well, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.000 according to the New York Times story about this crime, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.000 she chose that apartment for quote, the comparative security of 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.320 the building and the street. So I guess there's a 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.640 bit of sad irony there that that ended up not 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.840 really helping her. But yeah, in general, yeah, it does 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.840 seem that Roseanne Quinn had a pretty nice life going 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.880 for herself. She was twenty eight years old at the time, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.280 She had a job that she really liked where she 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.680 was respected, and she was living in Manhattan. She also 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.120 had a very active social life, lots of friends. She 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.439 was often spotted reading books at bars on the West Side. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.680 So yeah, it sounds like a pretty pleasant life up 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.840 until disaster strikes. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:17.920 Right. 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.800 Something that you said really makes me think about the 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.000 movie that was made, you know, based on this crime, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.560 and that's the movie Looking for Mister Goodbar with Diane 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:32.000 Keaton's character. You know, they portray her as a fairly happy, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.840 go lucky person. Obviously you two haven't seen the movie yet, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.240 but you know they give her the same job and 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:44.199 she is a teacher for death children. But in the contrast, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.720 you know, the real Roseanne Quinn like always right, you 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.840 never see her on the phone, like talking to her friends, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.720 or meeting up with the teachers, or you know, for 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.319 drinks like what you just said, Like what you just described. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.280 You don't see that in the movie. There are always 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.240 these shots of her where she's like sitting alone in 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.840 this big, dark, empty apartment, and she's always alone at bars. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.600 But I did find myself saying out loud to the screen, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.840 like where where are all your friends? Like you know, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:19.880 why are you always by yourself? 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.920 Yeah, So it sounds like the movie was trying to 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.920 set up a picture of a woman or a girl 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.000 who was a loner, and as if to say, maybe 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.040 that's why she goes home with all of these men. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.120 Is that what I'm hearing you say? 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.240 Yes, But there's even this dramatic scene where she, you know, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.960 she leaves her family behind, she moves to New York 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.880 and there's this feminist movement that's happening, and it leads 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.040 you to believe that, Okay, well, women are you know, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.760 being taken away from their their safety nets, their families, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.800 and they're going off to live in this dangerous solitude, 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.559 you know, in New York City, I mean a. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:02.920 Big, scary New York City. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.200 I guess that's what they're trying to portray there. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.560 Yeah, it seems to me to be a rather surface 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:15.640 level attempted trying to understand feminism, you know, and also 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.920 trying to imply that Rosanne herself was like an avowed feminist, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.720 when in reality, I don't think we have any way 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.760 to know that. I don't really think she considered herself 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.440 a feminist. I think she was just a normal person 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.040 trying to like live her life right right, didn't really 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.600 fit in with the normal expected lifestyle that was being 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.400 impressed upon her. And really I really think it's that simple. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.640 But the movie, I guess, has to try and tell 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.840 a story or create a narrative that you know, makes 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:43.240 a point. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.560 Yes, you are so right, Trevor, you know, but she 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.760 definitely lived with that kind of freedom that came from 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.120 the feminist movement. Like I don't think she could have 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.200 done that ten years before, like living on her own, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:01.040 having her own job and being unmarried and doing what 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.800 she did. But anyway, she did have friends and she 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:11.000 was seemingly happy. But you know, shocker, she takes men 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.080 home to sleep with despite all of that, And it's 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.560 almost as if she's a normal, well adjusted young woman 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.480 who likes to have sex, like sex is aoka in mind. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.520 She's just living her life. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.000 Yeah, Trevor said that, just living her life, yep. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.760 And so this is what she's trying to do. On 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.480 New Year's Day of nineteen seventy three, on that day, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.280 Roseanne Quinn goes to a bar just across the street 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.360 from her apartment, and that's a place called Wm Tweeds. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.200 And we know that there were two men there that 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.600 night who were friends with each other and their names 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.240 were John Wayne Wilson and Gary Guests. So at about 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.520 eleven that night, Guests leaves the bar, and a bit later, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.040 Roseanne Quinn takes John Wayne Wilson home to her apartment. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.720 And that's the last time that anyone will see Roseanne 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:02.680 Quinn alive. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.840 And we'll hear more about that after we take a 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:06.440 quick break. 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.160 On New Year's Day, nineteen seventy three, Roseanne Quinn leaves 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.320 the neighborhood bar with a stranger. That man is named 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.800 John Wayne Wilson, and Roseanne Quinn invites him back to 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.440 her home, an apartment on the seventh floor across the street. 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.560 Once they're there, the two reportedly smoked some pocololo or 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:35.360 marijuana and attempted to have sex. Wilson later told authorities 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.400 that when he failed to perform, Roseanne mocked him for 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.920 it and told him to leave. This is when an 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.680 argument ensued and he took a knife, and he ended 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:51.080 up stabbing her fourteen times. Afterwards, he covered up her 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:55.040 body with a bathroom, cleaned himself up in her shower, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:00.000 and wiped down her entire apartment before leaving. This is 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.360 all what he says happened. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.159 Yeah, that's just disgusting, you know. But of course, you know, 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.359 we have to pause here for a moment because we 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.119 really don't know exactly how it went down. You know, 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.280 he he makes this classic excuse, right that she mocked 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.439 him for you know, not being able to perform his 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:30.320 manly sexual duties, you know, and that somehow justifies this 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.480 anger and then murder. Right, And also I have to 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.560 go back to the movie, and again we don't know, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.119 we don't know what happened, but in the movie, you know, 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:47.920 they portray him to be possibly gay in the movie closeted, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.240 closeted gay. So but again I don't know if that 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.120 is true or not. But the thing about this is 0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:01.119 the police actually buy this excuse, you know, not being 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.000 able to get it up exactly, of not being able 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.680 to perform. Are you joking or. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.720 That the rage is justified as a result, right, I 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.520 mean different times, But that's wild. I mean this kind 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 of goes back to the Dominique dun case. Yeah, we 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.960 looked at a few episodes ago. Obviously that was twelve 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.359 years later, but we had a judge sympathizing with a 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.159 guy who strangled his girlfriend, saying he was caught up 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.320 in the heat of passion because she'd angered him in 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.359 some way, right, And he was only found guilty of 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.760 voluntary manslaughter as a result. So I really don't think 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.560 you're wrong. I think again, in both cases, law enforcement 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.280 or the legal system is citing with the men in 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.800 these situations and saying that their justifications are totally valid. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.520 You know, maybe Roseanne Quinn did actually mock Jane Wayne Wilson, 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.120 but do we really think that gave him a right 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.320 to harm her physically and then kill her? Absolutely not, No, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.840 of course, obviously not. It's wild that anybody would ever 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:00.400 take that perspective. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.560 Absolutely, absolutely, no way. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:03.640 No. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.440 So after he leaves Roseanne Quinn's apartment, Wilson then goes 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.480 to his friend Gary Guests, and that's the same friend 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.840 who he'd been with at the bar the night before, 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.080 and he ends up confessing to Geary Guests what he 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.920 had done to Rozanne, but Guests did not believe him 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.879 and thought he was just trying to get money home 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.320 for a flight to Miami. So anyway, he bought him 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:32.080 the plane ticket home, and Wilson flew to Miami, where 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.159 he picked up his wife. I have no clue what 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.880 he actually told his wife, but the two of them 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.679 then flew together to Indiana, where Wilson's mother was living. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.040 I just have to stop you there, and you think about, 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.199 like if you have a friend who comes back and 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.159 tells you that, like, what wouldn't you kill you someone, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.919 what wouldn't you be Like what did you say? Like right, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:57.159 wouldn't you want to know? 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.960 Like you wouldn't pay for them to get out of town? 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.600 Not at all. So anyhow, meanwhile, back in New York, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.920 Rosanne Quinn, you know, her friends and her colleagues, they're 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.200 getting extremely worried. She hadn't showed up to school where 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.480 she taught, and so on January third, a fellow teacher 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.800 went to her apartment and of course, when she didn't 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.280 answer the door, he had the building superintendent open it, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.320 and that's when they found her. Sadly. 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.000 Yeah, so it's a bit of a gruesome crime scene. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.520 So she's laid out on her fold out bed. Not 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.440 only had she been stabbed fourteen times, but she had 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.080 also been raped, and the murderer had placed on top 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.600 of her face a sculpted bust of another woman. 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.480 Oh that's a lot to intake, as all of you know, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.840 the murder scenes are, of course, but this is really 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.800 when the press frenzy begins. 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.439 Yeah, I mean you can imagine like that kind of 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.399 story is to blow up very fast, right for a 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:07.600 lot of reasons. But the immediate news coverage following Roseanne's 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:13.239 murder doesn't really focus on this woman getting killed, but 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.840 more about how scandalous the whole thing appears to be. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.520 So the daily news headline takes up three quarters of 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.159 the page and reads, in all caps, quote teacher found 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.480 nude and slain. And I'd say that's pretty typical of 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.160 a lot of like news coverage of the time, right, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.119 Like I think outlets really made a point to like 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.320 talk about her physical appearance, like how pretty she was, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.400 talk about how young she was, and then of course 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.119 all like the weird extreme violence and the bust and 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.439 all that stuff. But it was weird. It was like 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.720 her status as this attractive young woman who was killed 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.320 after a sexual encounter. You know, it was portrayed as 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.000 almost like titillating, right, like it was just for the 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.040 tabloids exactly. 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:58.280 That's what I was going to say. And I was 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.000 going to say, it's just it's so so sad, you know, 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.720 because again, as we said, she's just this independent woman 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.720 who's living her life, having a great time. She's a teacher, 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.800 she has people who love her, and then to be 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.080 you know, blasted right all over the newspapers in this 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:21.520 sensationalism and titillation, you know, especially by using that word nude, 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.399 you know, and the pictures that they showed, Like, just 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.800 how awful is that, you know, for her family and 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.560 all of the people that knew her. You know, just 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:33.520 think about her student and the student. That's exactly what 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:34.960 I was going to say, her students. 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.520 So it's interesting. There's an essay by Susan Brown Miller. 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.000 And Susan Brown Miller wrote the famous book Against Our Will, 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.400 and that book helped change the way we talk about rape. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.439 But in this essay she talks about the headline that 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:54.400 you mentioned, Trevor teacher found nude and slain. She writes, quote, 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.240 the introduction of the operative word nude was significant. No 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.240 longer simply a victim of male violence, Roseanne Quinn had 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.760 been transmogrified in death into an object of sexual fantasy. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:13.280