WEBVTT - Trevor Dormer on Joining King-Collins Golf Course Design

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<v Speaker 1>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

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<v Speaker 2>When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I find my ball in a fried egg

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<v Speaker 2>Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida Egg, Frida egg

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<v Speaker 2>Egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>About ready to run off the Welcome back to the

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<v Speaker 1>fridayg Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, and today we're speaking

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<v Speaker 1>with the golf architect Trevor Dormer. Trev has shaped features

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<v Speaker 1>for golf architects like Bill Corr, Gil Hansen, Rod Whitman,

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<v Speaker 1>and right now he's working on his first US solo project,

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<v Speaker 1>a redesign of Old Dane Golf Club in northern Nebraska. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the big recent development in Trev's career is that he

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<v Speaker 1>has joined King Collins Golf Course Design as a partner.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the firm founded by Tad King and Rob Collins.

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<v Speaker 1>It's behind courses like Sweeten's, cove Landman and the new

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<v Speaker 1>reversible Crossroads layout at Palmetto Bluff. We've had Rob Collins

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<v Speaker 1>on the podcast a number of times. Certainly we consider

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<v Speaker 1>his firm to be one of the most interesting and

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<v Speaker 1>dynamic in the business and the fact that it's now

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<v Speaker 1>known as King Colin's Dormer qualifies as major news in

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<v Speaker 1>the world of golf course design. So what better time

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<v Speaker 1>to bring Trev on the podcast to talk about his

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<v Speaker 1>new partnership and to get a sense of his approach

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<v Speaker 1>to golf architecture. So we're going to get into that

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<v Speaker 1>in a minute, but first a word from our sponsor,

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<v Speaker 1>all one word. All right, let's get to my interview

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<v Speaker 1>with Trevor Dohrmer. Trevor. First of all, I've seen you

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<v Speaker 1>refer to yourself as Trevor from time to time. Is

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<v Speaker 1>it Trevor? Is it Trevor?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's whatever anybody wants to call me. Trev's Trep's

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<v Speaker 2>quick and easy and short. So I always just say Trevor.

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<v Speaker 2>I introduced myself as Trevor. But yeah, it's all good.

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<v Speaker 2>It's no biggie.

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<v Speaker 1>So you take a laid back approach to it. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>in that sense, Trevor would be the appropriate one, because

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<v Speaker 1>that's maybe the most laid back way to say Trevor. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't we start with the big news here, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's that you've joined King Collins Golf Course Design or

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<v Speaker 1>or should I say the firm formerly known as King

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<v Speaker 1>Collins now known as King Collins Dormer. How did this

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<v Speaker 1>partnership come about?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's it's kind of been in the

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<v Speaker 2>works for you know, about a year. You know, Rob

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<v Speaker 2>and Tad have been getting pretty busy over the long term,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I thought about it for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a good six months because obviously, you know, Rob and

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<v Speaker 2>Tad are my friends first and foremost. I've been friends

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<v Speaker 2>with Rob since you know, two thousand and seven, before

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<v Speaker 2>Sweeten's Cove, before I ended up, you know, working with

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<v Speaker 2>you know, with Bill and Ben, and when we were

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<v Speaker 2>in our infancy, in our in our careers, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we've always just kind of been friends. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>was nervous when they asked me if I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>become a partner, and I just said, you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>I value our friendships first and foremost, because once you

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<v Speaker 2>get into business with your friends, it can you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I had to think about that because it's not worth

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<v Speaker 2>losing friends over business. But then, you know, I really

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<v Speaker 2>thought about it, and we we all have such easy going,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, laid back in styles that that we're we're

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<v Speaker 2>more conscious about how we are as you know, how

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<v Speaker 2>we interact with each other. Then, you know, and and

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<v Speaker 2>I know their their hearts and and you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>always it's so I you know, I thought about it

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<v Speaker 2>for quite a while, and and we all just thought

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<v Speaker 2>thought about it for quite a while just to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that it was going to be good. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, it's it's it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>big transition process because you know, I'm still with with

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<v Speaker 2>Bill and Ben and I you know, and I have

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<v Speaker 2>this project here in Nebraska, the Old Dane, and uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're my priority. I said that to Rob

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<v Speaker 2>and Tad, you know, before we decided to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>get together with King Colin's Dormer, that you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>got to make sure that you know, Bill and Ben

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<v Speaker 2>are priority focus and that the project that I'm helping

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<v Speaker 2>them within the Bahamas torch Key is is the needs

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<v Speaker 2>are being taken care of. And and then also it

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<v Speaker 2>kind of ran into timelines don't always work out, but

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<v Speaker 2>it ran into you know, my own solo project here

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<v Speaker 2>at the Old Danes. So you know, Bill and Ben

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<v Speaker 2>are so gracious and they know that we're all trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get out on our own and when we have

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<v Speaker 2>opportunities that we need to take them. So so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>right now it's I've got a little bit of time

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<v Speaker 2>to where I can help with you know, start the

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<v Speaker 2>dirt move here and in Nebraska. And then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we still got a really good team in in in

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<v Speaker 2>torch Key. They're the same guys from Saint Lucia, So

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<v Speaker 2>we have full confidence in those guys to where I

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<v Speaker 2>can you know, get away to take care of some

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<v Speaker 2>of this stuff here. So so you know that that's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a long winded version, but you know, Rob,

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<v Speaker 2>Tad and I have always been good friends. I've been huge,

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<v Speaker 2>huge fans of theirs everything they've been doing, and and

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<v Speaker 2>I've helped them out on certain projects when when I

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<v Speaker 2>when I could get out and see them and they're

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<v Speaker 2>they're just so fun to work with, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they let everybody just kind of go and do their

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<v Speaker 2>do their thing and and give them something you know

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<v Speaker 2>that they don't they don't put any they don't put

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<v Speaker 2>any parameters on you. So you know, it's just a

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a really good fit there and and so

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's kind of how it how it started. Now

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<v Speaker 2>things are getting busy and you know, they're getting a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of inquiries about you know, new projects and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that, just to like it always has been. But

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<v Speaker 2>we just felt it was probably a good time to

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<v Speaker 2>you know, without doing side notes to these these clients. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, we have another partner coming on. We

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<v Speaker 2>just thought we we got to kind of make this

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<v Speaker 2>up you know, public. But but it's a it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a long transition before I'm totally you know

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<v Speaker 2>on with with with them as as and right now

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<v Speaker 2>I'm helping them with you know, pre planning stuff and

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<v Speaker 2>just things that I'm I'm able to kind of help

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<v Speaker 2>with and they're involving me with you know, all the

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<v Speaker 2>all of that side so right, but yeah, it's good.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, one one reason for the length of

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<v Speaker 1>the transition is that, as you've mentioned, you're very busy.

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<v Speaker 1>You're working on your solo project at Old Dane in Nebraska,

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<v Speaker 1>which we'll talk about in a minute, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>some projects with Corn Crenshaw, with whom you've worked for

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<v Speaker 1>quite a while. You mentioned Cabot Saint Lucia. That was

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<v Speaker 1>a project that wrapped up I believe last year or

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<v Speaker 1>two years ago. The course is open now Point Hardy

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<v Speaker 1>Golf Club and that's out in the Caribbean, and and

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<v Speaker 1>now Corn Crenshaw also have one going in the Bahamas

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<v Speaker 1>at torch Key. And so is your plan to continue

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<v Speaker 1>working with Corn Crenshaw for the foreseeable future on projects

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<v Speaker 1>like this or after torch Key? Is that gonna wind

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<v Speaker 1>down as your focus kind of turns to King Collins.

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<v Speaker 2>Dormer, Yeah, I think it's you know, it's gonna it's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna wind down as as as my focus. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>if Bill and Ben ever need me to jump in

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<v Speaker 2>and help out on anything, I've already let Tad and

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<v Speaker 2>Rob know that I might have to break away if

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<v Speaker 2>those guys need something for a short time.

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<v Speaker 1>Or great or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's a it's a it's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's it's pretty special if you know those guys,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, need help and I can, you know, have

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<v Speaker 2>some time, you know, It's it's just been an absolute

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<v Speaker 2>dream to work for Bill and Ben for the past

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<v Speaker 2>ten years of my career. They've shaped a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>my philosophy and and and and let me grow in

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<v Speaker 2>my career. And and you know, I owe everything pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much to this date to them about you know, where

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<v Speaker 2>where my path has been and gone. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it was. It was a tough one, right, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know it's you know, the thing that allows you,

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that moving on with Rob and Tad or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I get a little bit more flexibility to

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<v Speaker 2>be home with my family. I spent the last majority

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<v Speaker 2>of my career doing overseas stuff because I'm Canadian and

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<v Speaker 2>I got a good passport.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean, you you've worked in Japan, You've

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<v Speaker 1>worked all over the place. You've been one of the

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<v Speaker 1>world travelers of the Corn Crunshaw outfit as well as

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<v Speaker 1>for other architects. You've been in Thailand, You've been, You've

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<v Speaker 1>been everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it's been the vast majority of my twenty

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<v Speaker 2>years doing this has been like I started, honestly when

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<v Speaker 2>I was twenty two years old, was when I went

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<v Speaker 2>to Russia. And I can't even believe it, Nicko. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't believe anybody hired me to go to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>overseas and actually paid me money as a twenty two

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<v Speaker 2>year old. You know, kid, right, but it's just how

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<v Speaker 2>it is. I mean, you know, so right now, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I got two young boys, they're seven and nine, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're they're just little savages and and you know they're

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<v Speaker 2>becoming a little you know, my wife, you know, bless

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<v Speaker 2>her soul, she's traveled around with me drug those kids,

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<v Speaker 2>across continents and been with me for this whole time.

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<v Speaker 2>Like she lived with me for three years and in

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Lucia two years, in Thailand. She was jumping back

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<v Speaker 2>and forth when we first had our son in Japan.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's she's she's wanting to settle down in

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<v Speaker 2>our little town of Kimberly. And and same with the boys.

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<v Speaker 2>They need they need to I always say, they need

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<v Speaker 2>to go make those friends that they're going to go

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<v Speaker 2>to jail with out of high school, you know. So

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<v Speaker 2>so so that's kind of you know, life, life kind

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<v Speaker 2>of creeps up on you, you know, and and that's

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<v Speaker 2>and that's one of the benefits of you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>able to be with Robin Tad is I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to set some of my schedule and I

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<v Speaker 2>have a vested interest in the company, so obviously I

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<v Speaker 2>want to make sure I'm pulling my own weight. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think moving forward with our projects, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll have a little bit of a different role, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>setting up you know, concepts with Rob and Tad and

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<v Speaker 2>working on all aspects of these projects, dealing with clients,

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<v Speaker 2>and then when we actually get to break down or

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<v Speaker 2>break ground, you know, I want to be there to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to set the tone to to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>build some of the stuff and kind of work with

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<v Speaker 2>the shapers and the construction professionals that we employ and

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<v Speaker 2>and and give them a good foundation to work off of,

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<v Speaker 2>and then be able to take off and go home

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<v Speaker 2>and see my family. So it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of jumping back and forth rather than you know,

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<v Speaker 2>digging my feed in and living in a place which

0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I just can't do that anymore, which is fine. It's

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.960
<v Speaker 2>and and and it's it's good. So I'm excited to

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:10.559
<v Speaker 2>transition to some of the stuff. And and uh, yeah.

0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 1>What excites you about what Rob and Tad have been

0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.600
<v Speaker 1>doing as King Collins golf course design before you came

0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:17.080
<v Speaker 1>on board.

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's pretty well known that these guys

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>push some limits, you know, and that and that's the

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.960
<v Speaker 2>best part they're like, they're just so fun to work

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 2>with and and I'll tell you, I'll tell you one thing.

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, Rob, when when we build golf courses and

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 2>when we build features in the dirt, I'm constantly thinking

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:46.560
<v Speaker 2>about how a ball is going to hit a feature

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>and roll and get to a certain section of a green.

0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.960
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty damn tough to know exactly how that's going

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to go unless you're doing it all the time, right,

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>So we we we try to get it right and

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.160
<v Speaker 2>then obviously you san cap it and then it gets

0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 2>a little bit better. Some guys kick around basketballs and

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. We've never done that. It's all kind

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of in our mind and visual, so it's really hard

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 2>to know that stuff. And Rob and Tad on some

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 2>of their projects, I've kind of been like, man, I

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know. That's above my limit of what I think

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 2>is gonna hold and what I think is gonna actually

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.600
<v Speaker 2>work when it comes down to mobile grass people playing

0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 2>the course. And yeah, I got to be completely honest.

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean I was like, I don't know if this

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 2>is gonna work, but I did it because he was

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 2>very confident, and it works and I've seen it. I've

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 2>played it. I've hit shots into it where I would

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:53.560
<v Speaker 2>not have gone past that in my own comfort level.

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 2>And so there's not that many guys doing that out

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:02.479
<v Speaker 2>there out here right now, you know, And it's sometimes

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>that's trial and error, but you don't want to have

0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the error. You don't want to be digging up a green,

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, two years down the road. And they haven't.

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 2>They haven't dug up greens, they haven't done this stuff.

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>So they're kind of pushing some of my limits. And

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it's actually making me a better constructor of

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.880
<v Speaker 2>golf and a better designer of golf, and it's kind

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.640
<v Speaker 2>of opening up different corridors in my mind for what's possible.

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 2>And when I started to realize that there's no other

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>firm that I would want to work with other than

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Bill and Ben, I thought about, okay, well, you know,

0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.760
<v Speaker 2>when Bill and Ben decided to slow down, who am

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I going to go, you know, try and scrape up

0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>a job with, you know, And it's either myself or

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 2>somebody else. And I ran through it all in my

0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>head and I was like, the only the only guys

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 2>from a personal notice that these guys are my friends,

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 2>and I like them, and I get along with them,

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 2>But as far as architectural side of things, yeah, they're

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>they They actually kind of pushed my boundaries a little bit,

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.720
<v Speaker 2>which which I think, in turn is going to make

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 2>what we do in the future way better.

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 1>So do you have an example in mind of a

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 1>feature that Rob and Tad designed and that maybe you

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>helped to execute or put in the ground that you

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 1>looked at in concept and were like, I don't know

0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.320
<v Speaker 1>if this is going to work, but then it turned

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 1>out it did work.

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, Yeah, you know, I can I can say that.

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it's it's kind of controversial green out

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 2>here in Nebraska, but it's the fourth green at land Man.

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a it's probably a nine thousand square foot green

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>as far as mobile turf, but there's probably two thousand

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 2>pottable square feet. And that the how I was building

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 2>that thing is is you know, I think it was

0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>a US open was happening, and it could have been

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.240
<v Speaker 2>at Wingfoot and we were just kind of looking at

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 2>some of that stuff and it has It doesn't really

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 2>represent anything about the wing Foot greens at all, but

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 2>it was just how the turf gets mowed down so

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.119
<v Speaker 2>harshly and steeply down those faces and around and back up.

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 2>And how extreme the outer limits of those greens are.

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the how Andy and my colleague Andy Johnson, founder

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.120
<v Speaker 1>of Friday Gandy Johnson wrote, wrote a piece about the

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.359
<v Speaker 1>unpinnable area of wing Foot Wingfoot's greens. It's kind of

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 1>like the distinctive feature of them, that there's a lot

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.000
<v Speaker 1>of area on those greens that you cannot put a

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:55.359
<v Speaker 1>pin on.

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and and to be completely honest, we never,

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 2>I never really thought about that, Like we weren't thinking

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.400
<v Speaker 2>about that. We were just thinking about I always call

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.919
<v Speaker 2>this when I look at greens. I call it the

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.200
<v Speaker 2>legs of the green, the sexiness of a green, and

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:20.840
<v Speaker 2>how the curves and contours roll over and drape over her,

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.199
<v Speaker 2>and it's just it's it's the most beautiful part of

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.000
<v Speaker 2>a green to me. And I so I call it

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>the legs the sexiness of a green, and it's what

0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 2>stands out mostly when we craft these greens. For me,

0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:38.359
<v Speaker 2>this is my opinion. I noticed that first and foremost

0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 2>when I walk up beside a green and I'm looking

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 2>at a side profile of her, or we're off the

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.640
<v Speaker 2>back and you've you've you know, we focus so much

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 2>on mishits off the sides of greens and backs and

0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. And when a green looks really good

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and really sexy from all of those angles, you know

0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 2>that you've got something really special. And this fourth green,

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was working at it with Rob, and

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I could tell that it was going to be good

0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 2>because I would put something in and then Rob would

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>come back and he'd be so excited, and then we

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.479
<v Speaker 2>would tweak it and make it more. We would just

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 2>work at it and work at it, and I probably

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.199
<v Speaker 2>worked at it for two days and then finally we

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>got it and Tad came out and looked at it,

0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.400
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, man, this is good, but you know

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 2>it's it's to me. And it proved that that green.

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, a lot of people, I don't know if

0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>they really like it or think they can hold it

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. It's one of the more from what Will Anderson,

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.640
<v Speaker 2>the owner of Landman, says, it's one of the more

0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 2>controversial greens out there, and for right reason. I mean,

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>it messes with you. But what I've really found out

0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.919
<v Speaker 2>is that that's a really good tale of good golf architecture.

0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not trying to be cocky or whatever. But

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 2>it's absolutely be true, and we played that this year.

0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm a I'm a pretty shitty golfer. I

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.160
<v Speaker 2>hit when I when I play golf, I hit three ball,

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 2>four ball, five balls. If I don't like that the

0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.879
<v Speaker 2>shot that I hit, there could be four balls on

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.280
<v Speaker 2>the green that are mine. And my friends just know it.

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 2>And I just play that way of golf. I don't

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 2>keep track of score. I don't have the time to

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.159
<v Speaker 2>really get good at golf because you need to be

0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 2>on the course all the time if you want to

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 2>get your the little number on that scorecard down to

0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.959
<v Speaker 2>a certain number, right. But I do enjoy hitting certain shots,

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.439
<v Speaker 2>and I can hit them with a few tries. But

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 2>when I did that, I hit two good shots and

0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 2>I was on the green and I was putt. I

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 2>could have putt for Birdie granted to one of the shots,

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I freaking threw off into the woods. But I dropped

0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 2>another one and hit a good shot too. So it

0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:05.919
<v Speaker 2>the green works, that the whole works. It's just people

0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.640
<v Speaker 2>either can't figure it out or they weren't good at

0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.280
<v Speaker 2>that time when they played the whole. And you know,

0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>it functions, it drains well, there's no flaws to it,

0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and at first when I was building it with Rob,

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I was a little bit hesitant on it. But you know,

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:28.199
<v Speaker 2>that's that's just one. That's one example. This is so interesting. No,

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 2>that's great. That's great because it gets at something that

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm interested in with your partnership with Rob and Tad.

0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.879
<v Speaker 2>And that's that I see you as. And you can

0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 2>correct me if I'm on the wrong track here, but

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 2>I see you as representing a kind of different strain

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>in golf architecture than they do, or at least coming

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:49.880
<v Speaker 2>from a different background. Right.

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.640
<v Speaker 1>They came up in Gary Player's organization, and their work

0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 1>often strikes me as very influenced by Mike Strands and

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.359
<v Speaker 1>Pete Dye. And maybe these are architects you love is well,

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 1>But you have worked a lot with Coren Crenshaw, which

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.280
<v Speaker 1>is known more for a kind of minimalist and naturalist approach.

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 1>So do you think you're going to bring a different

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 1>point of view to what Rob and Tad are doing,

0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.399
<v Speaker 1>a different set of skills and preferences, or do you

0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.359
<v Speaker 1>see more kind of consonants and similarity between you and

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the two of them.

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 2>I think we're very similar, Garrett. I mean I think,

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, Rob worked for Gary Player for a few

0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 2>years and another art architect previous to that, But you know,

0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that was just trying to get into the business,

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, So I wouldn't necessarily say that Rob's philosophy

0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.920
<v Speaker 2>stems from that. I think, to be honest, like when

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 2>we were when we were working together in two thousand

0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.640
<v Speaker 2>and seven on that Gary Player project, Rob was showing

0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:58.080
<v Speaker 2>me pictures of Pinehurst and then he was showing me

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 2>all of this archite texture that I had no idea about.

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.199
<v Speaker 2>And at that time it was one of those projects

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that one or slightly after when we did a little

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.439
<v Speaker 2>bit of a Donald Ross restoration in Winnipeg, Manitoba, was

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.640
<v Speaker 2>when I switched. I realized that building cad golf it

0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 2>was not for me. I've really enjoyed the aspect of

0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>being really precise on a bulldozer or an excavator to

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 2>where im and the architect came out with his laser

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 2>and took shots. He's like, oh, there we go. It's

0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 2>to plan because it showed a talent that I could

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 2>hone and work on with a bulldozer or an excavator.

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 2>But Rob was one of the first guys that was

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:45.919
<v Speaker 2>really showing me Mike Strands, look at this, Trevor, look

0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.240
<v Speaker 2>at this. Check this out. He was really trying to

0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.720
<v Speaker 2>do something different with that project that we did in Cranbrook, BC,

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:57.840
<v Speaker 2>and it is it is a little bit different stylistically

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>than other Gary Player projects. And it has to do

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 2>with Rob and and Jeff Lawrence and then also the

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:08.879
<v Speaker 2>guys that were on that crew, like Riley Johns was

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 2>out there with us and that's where we all met,

0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 2>so we all became really good friends on that project.

0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.120
<v Speaker 1>So just for a background, that's a Gary Player project

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.920
<v Speaker 1>in Canada that you were all working on around the

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven to two thousand and eight range.

0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and you know, and and there's a lot

0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 2>of guys that stem from that that are still doing

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 2>really good work. There's there's Ryan Kalinka who worked for

0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Keith and Riley and do stuff with them. And then

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Dan phil Cox. He's one of Rod Whitman and Keith

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Cutton's main guys and I've worked with him. So a

0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:50.919
<v Speaker 2>lot of that stuff came from, you know, that point,

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and we all obviously grew in our careers and got

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>got you know, better at what we do. But but

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I think going back to what your your original question is,

0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:08.680
<v Speaker 2>I think there's like stylistically and philosophically, you know, I've

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:11.200
<v Speaker 2>I've spent more time with Bill and Ben, and Bill.

0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Bill has really taught me certain things that kind of

0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 2>are subliminal in golf architecture. It's hard for me to

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.000
<v Speaker 2>even explain it to you, Like, like I no matter

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 2>how many guys try and get into Bill's head, he'll

0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:29.720
<v Speaker 2>throw a loop at you. Same thing with Ben, right,

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.119
<v Speaker 2>he sometimes he'll just gravitate to something, then you'll be

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 2>way off. You're like, damn, I was way off there, Bill,

0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 2>But you know he can pull a little bit of

0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>that and utilize it, and then we can and sometimes

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:49.120
<v Speaker 2>you're bang on Bill's like that's that's perfect, that's great.

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.639
<v Speaker 2>So I think, you know, one of the things that

0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:54.199
<v Speaker 2>I'll be able to bring to them is just a

0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:58.359
<v Speaker 2>different you know, background, like Rob and I and and Tad,

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:02.000
<v Speaker 2>but mainly Rob and I have chatted for the past

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:07.480
<v Speaker 2>decade and a half at least once a month, and

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I would say more like every two weeks, like that's

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 2>how close we've been. And and you know, he even

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:18.399
<v Speaker 2>helped us out in Yokohama, Japan for you know, a

0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.520
<v Speaker 2>few six six weeks while I was back home and

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:25.440
<v Speaker 2>we were having our first son. So you know, he's

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.520
<v Speaker 2>been he's been around it. But yeah, there is going

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:30.879
<v Speaker 2>to be I'm hoping I can bring something a little

0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 2>bit different. I wouldn't want to say that I'm just

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.440
<v Speaker 2>going to bring the same thing because then they're like, well,

0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:38.119
<v Speaker 2>what the hell do we need you here for? You

0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.080
<v Speaker 2>do the same shit as us, So.

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, I would imagine, I would imagine your experience

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 1>shaping features for uh, corn Crunshaw especially, You've worked for

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:51.160
<v Speaker 1>a number of other architects as well, not just Corn Crunshaw,

0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>but that that experience is very valuable because if you're

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:58.159
<v Speaker 1>talking about the best in the business at finish work

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:02.119
<v Speaker 1>and at esthetic and tying things in and and the

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 1>work in the ground, then is there anybody better than

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:06.520
<v Speaker 1>than Corn Crunshaw.

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean Bill and Ben. Again this sounds pretty cocky,

0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:15.680
<v Speaker 2>but they are the best. It's it's it's it's undeniable.

0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:19.280
<v Speaker 2>There's there's just levels to it. You know. It's and

0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:22.320
<v Speaker 2>and you know Bill and Ben in the way that

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:28.440
<v Speaker 2>they you know, give give confidence to the guys that

0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:32.440
<v Speaker 2>we worked with. We're like a bunch of we could

0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:34.719
<v Speaker 2>be a bunch of misfits as guys. You know, like

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:37.639
<v Speaker 2>we a lot of us came from different backgrounds. We

0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't all come from landscape architecture backgrounds or sitting in offices.

0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:48.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, everybody's kind of come in for their certain reasons,

0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:51.680
<v Speaker 2>and Bill has has gravitated to each one of us

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>and and Ben and and seen something in us. Maybe

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.679
<v Speaker 2>it was just some spark, and then he's kind of

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>brought us in and help mold us in certain ways.

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, also it's you know, he's given

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:11.240
<v Speaker 2>us that breadth to you know, create our own style,

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.159
<v Speaker 2>in our own creativity. And he doesn't ever hold us

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>back saying, oh that was stupid, Trevor, why'd you build that?

0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 2>He always will joke about something if you get a

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 2>little bit too crazy, but he won't ever wipe it

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 2>out completely. He instills a lot of confidence in us,

0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:32.880
<v Speaker 2>which is that's huge because when you're a young, young

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.120
<v Speaker 2>architect and you're just trying to get out on your own,

0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 2>confidence is huge, and especially guys that don't have confidence

0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 2>going into it. You have to be so confident if

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>you're going to try and stand up in front of

0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:52.200
<v Speaker 2>a board membership and you're in your thirties and they're

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:56.200
<v Speaker 2>going to give you millions of dollars to do something special.

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 2>They have to see something in you. And Build has

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 2>has done that with and Ben and Scotti our business manager,

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>he's done that with They've done that with all of us,

0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:11.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's I couldn't be more grateful to those

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 2>guys for that.

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, hey, I wanted to take a quick break

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:31.600
<v Speaker 1>here to talk about launch Box by True Golf. True

0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Golf is a golf technology company committed to making it

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:39.840
<v Speaker 1>easy to play, improve, and enjoy the game of golf.

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 1>They are now introducing launch Box, which is an all

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:49.800
<v Speaker 1>new portable launch monitor and golf simulator. Launch Box seamlessly

0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:53.320
<v Speaker 1>connects to your PC or iOS device and makes it

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>easy to play golf courses and improve your game year round.

0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 1>And year round is important right now because it's getting

0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 1>cold in a lot of parts of the country. True

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Golf is offering a way here for you to kind

0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:09.360
<v Speaker 1>of keep up your skills through these colder months. LaunchBox

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 1>by True Golf offers simple setup, instant shot registration, accurate

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:18.760
<v Speaker 1>measured data, and an easy Wi Fi connection. It's optimized

0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:21.960
<v Speaker 1>for indoor use, but can also be used on range

0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:25.360
<v Speaker 1>mats outdoors. Now you can turn your swings at the

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 1>range into detailed feedback, giving you meaningful insight into your game,

0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>helping you optimize your practice and focus on improvement. You

0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.920
<v Speaker 1>can also work on course strategy with LaunchBox. This setup

0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.800
<v Speaker 1>allows you to explore some of the best courses in

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:46.520
<v Speaker 1>the world, which have been meticulously recreated with E six connect.

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:51.560
<v Speaker 1>Each virtual recreation is mapped, scanned, and digitized to be

0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 1>accurate within millimeters of its real world counterpart. Pretty unique

0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:59.880
<v Speaker 1>feature there. LaunchBox by True Golf is engineered for accurate

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 1>see and designed for ease. Learn more at true golf

0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 1>dot com, slash egg that's t r U golf dot

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:19.320
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0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 1>a bit about Old Dane, what you're doing right now.

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 1>In fact, you you came from the construction site to

0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:27.720
<v Speaker 1>to talk with me, and I'm grateful for the time

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 1>because obviously you're you're in the midst of a lot

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.400
<v Speaker 1>of stuff out at Old Dane. First of all, just

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 1>tell me about the golf course and and what you're

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:36.840
<v Speaker 1>doing there.

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, Garrett, it's going to be the best golf course

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:48.240
<v Speaker 2>in the Braskts sand Hill is going to be you

0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 2>just wait, you just yeah, exactly best twelve holes on

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:57.840
<v Speaker 2>the planet, now, you know what it's the start of

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:03.200
<v Speaker 2>this was kind of interesting. You know. It's stemmed from coming,

0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, working out here at Landman for like the

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:08.400
<v Speaker 2>ten twelve days that I was here and just meeting

0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Will Anderson. And obviously if you've met Will Anderson, he's

0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:15.719
<v Speaker 2>such a good guy, very humble, comes from very humble

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:20.280
<v Speaker 2>back farming background, and his family's just great. I couldn't

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 2>be I couldn't have been more happy, as like said

0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 2>to Robin tad Man, you guys landed one of the

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.960
<v Speaker 2>best clients out there. And you know I've always had

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 2>a text thing going with Will a little bit here

0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:38.360
<v Speaker 2>and there, and then Will you know, he basically, you know,

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 2>said hey, is there is there any chance that you'd

0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 2>want to help redo or enhance the Old Dane? And

0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>at first I was like, I looked at I only

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:53.719
<v Speaker 2>seen it barely from the parking lot once, and then

0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 2>I looked at it on Google Earth and photos and

0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that.

0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Much for context. It's like maybe what minute drive away

0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:04.800
<v Speaker 1>from Landman fin like pretty close, right, yeah, it's one

0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:06.880
<v Speaker 1>of my colleagues, Matt Ruschius was on the was on

0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:10.239
<v Speaker 1>the crew at at land Man and uh he uh

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 1>he and the some of the younger guys would would

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 1>play out at Old Dane every once in a while

0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 1>they would go out to play some golf. So it's

0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:19.040
<v Speaker 1>pretty pretty close to land Man.

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. And you know Will Will, you know, he

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>he changed that course when he was younger and built

0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 2>some stuff, and you know, he built some different greens

0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>and they they just made it and and you know what,

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:37.080
<v Speaker 2>it's the greens are kind of cool out here. It's

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>got like side to side across the property. It's dead flat,

0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:47.000
<v Speaker 2>but they made some valleys and some swales that you know,

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:49.400
<v Speaker 2>when Will said, hey, do you want to look at

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:52.080
<v Speaker 2>this and and see what you can do? Well, I

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:56.440
<v Speaker 2>tried to get the light our data and and like

0:33:56.480 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>an aerial photo, but for some reason it couldn't connect

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:01.760
<v Speaker 2>to each other. So I just said, you know what,

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not even going to look at the course. I'm

0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 2>just gonna look at the light our data. So I

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:10.400
<v Speaker 2>had a blank piece of paper with light our lines

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:13.720
<v Speaker 2>on it, and that's kind of how I routed the course.

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.239
<v Speaker 2>And it had a driving range, and I was like,

0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:19.239
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'm not gonna I don't really want

0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 2>to waste Like I don't. I'm not a huge fan

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:26.400
<v Speaker 2>of driving ranges because mainly I never grew up sitting

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.799
<v Speaker 2>at the driving range. But some people it's very it's

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:32.799
<v Speaker 2>a necessary amenity. But for me, I'm just like, I

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.480
<v Speaker 2>just want to play golf and it just stems from

0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:39.319
<v Speaker 2>my style of how I want to play. So I've

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:41.360
<v Speaker 2>just routed holes over top of the whole piece of

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:43.879
<v Speaker 2>land and I was like, oh, I was like, shit,

0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 2>I got twelve holes and twelve comes back to the

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:48.719
<v Speaker 2>clubhouse and six is close to the clubhouse. I mean,

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:50.840
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of good. I don't know how I

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 2>did it, but it worked. And you know, it's an

0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>outer loop and then an inner loop, so you know,

0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm hitting all the right boxes. And I did

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:02.919
<v Speaker 2>a few other outings just to double check myself, and

0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:07.480
<v Speaker 2>they weren't nearly as good. And and then I just said,

0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:09.560
<v Speaker 2>you know what, will I think that this could be

0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:14.239
<v Speaker 2>good if you're you know, allowing me free will to

0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 2>do whatever we need to do on this thing. And

0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:20.560
<v Speaker 2>he I sent it to him and he's like absolutely

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:24.800
<v Speaker 2>let's go with this. So that's kind of how it started.

0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:29.160
<v Speaker 2>And you know, we Will is so good. He knew

0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>how busy I was in Saint Lucia and then starting

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>the torch Key project. You know, he said, you know,

0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I said, Will, I don't know if I'm going to

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:40.680
<v Speaker 2>be able to get his or any way we can

0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 2>push this back a year, and He's like, yeah, I

0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 2>think we can push it back a year, but our

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.920
<v Speaker 2>irrigation system won't go two years. So you know, so

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:51.520
<v Speaker 2>you just want to try not to conflict with you know,

0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:54.400
<v Speaker 2>different projects, and so far we're making it work, but

0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:56.759
<v Speaker 2>it's never a good timing to try and take on,

0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:01.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, two projects and two roles. But but yeah,

0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 2>it just kind of came together like that. And I

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 2>used a lot of the contour that was there because

0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:10.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to just you know, make push dirt

0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:12.360
<v Speaker 2>around for the sake of pushing dirt. I want to

0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>be conscious about the budget and utilizing the interesting features

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 2>that we're there, so, you know, and Will has a

0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:27.839
<v Speaker 2>has a architectural IQ that is very high, so he

0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:31.960
<v Speaker 2>understands all of these old, quirky features that I've been

0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>studying for the past twenty years that I want to

0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:38.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, instill, not copy verbatim, but some of the

0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:42.640
<v Speaker 2>some of the hints of certain weird things like at

0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Huntercombe and and you know, Barrick and and just just

0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:52.000
<v Speaker 2>those places you know that are that are interesting and people,

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:53.840
<v Speaker 2>and just to try and give a little bit of

0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.800
<v Speaker 2>a different flavor to the gulf around here. And we

0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of need to write like it's flat. You know,

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>if you try and try and do something a little different,

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:06.600
<v Speaker 2>I think it's going to kind of little be it

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:11.080
<v Speaker 2>be better received. So at first maybe people won't get

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:13.360
<v Speaker 2>some of it, but I think eventually they'll just play

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the play the game of golf and they'll start to

0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.359
<v Speaker 2>realize it. And Will is so good about it. You know,

0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:21.680
<v Speaker 2>we've got some really good ideas on what we're going

0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to do out here, and some concepts that you know

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:30.279
<v Speaker 2>aren't very prevalent in Nebraska golf that we're going to

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.680
<v Speaker 2>instill out here. So he's he's he's on board. He's

0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.600
<v Speaker 2>come up with some really good ideas out there. And

0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I when I put on the plan,

0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 2>you know his name is on there. Redesigned by Trev

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Dormer and Will Anderson, and I wanted it to be

0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:50.080
<v Speaker 2>that way because I want to collaborate with the owners

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:53.319
<v Speaker 2>of projects, and especially Will when I knew he was

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:55.680
<v Speaker 2>he worked on the course when he was younger and

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.399
<v Speaker 2>reshifted some things around, and then he helped build land

0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Man with those guys. I mean, he he's on it.

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:08.719
<v Speaker 2>He's he brings aside to this project where he's thinking about,

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, the player, the guy that can hit shots,

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:16.279
<v Speaker 2>execute shots into these things that I'm I haven't been

0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:19.280
<v Speaker 2>around a lot. So he's he's really kind of showing

0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 2>me that that that direction as well. And and you know,

0:38:23.760 --> 0:38:26.080
<v Speaker 2>we we think about that with Bill and Ben, but

0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 2>you know we don't. I don't have a player standing

0:38:29.640 --> 0:38:32.240
<v Speaker 2>beside me being like, oh well what about this, Trevor,

0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:36.279
<v Speaker 2>what about this? You know? So I think it's gonna

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>it's gonna be pretty interesting, and I hope, you know,

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 2>first and foremost, everybody's gonna have fun out there, and

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 2>and and it's going to be walking only. So Will,

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Will is adamant no matter how much people are upset

0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:52.560
<v Speaker 2>about walking only, it's it's you know, it's it's going

0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:56.960
<v Speaker 2>to be really good that way. So that that releases

0:38:57.000 --> 0:38:58.200
<v Speaker 2>a few handcuffs for me.

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Bety have to consider the cart paths. That's huge. Can

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:06.760
<v Speaker 1>you give me a specific on this course of something

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>quirky that you're building that might jump out a players

0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:11.400
<v Speaker 1>when when they see.

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:15.839
<v Speaker 2>It, Well, we we got a you know, we got

0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:17.320
<v Speaker 2>a big volcano green.

0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean that thing, that volcano green is like a

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 1>grain that's kind of elevated up from the surrounding grade

0:39:24.600 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 1>that kind of kind of sticks up like a volcano basically,

0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:28.560
<v Speaker 1>and the green is on top of it.

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:33.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, you know, I don't know how high it's

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:37.080
<v Speaker 2>going to be yet, if that's a field process, but

0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>we're going to make it definitely stick out of the ground.

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 2>And it's not going to be like a like a

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Mount Fuji volcano. It's going to be a landform that's

0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:48.920
<v Speaker 2>definitely higher than the rest of the surrounding area, and

0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:52.760
<v Speaker 2>then it'll merge and spill down into the set of tees.

0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:56.360
<v Speaker 2>It'll spill down off the back. So the landform is

0:39:56.400 --> 0:40:01.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's going to be, you know, a hundred yards wide,

0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:04.600
<v Speaker 2>and the green is however much yards you know, like

0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.719
<v Speaker 2>it's going to bleed out and connect into the landscape.

0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:13.360
<v Speaker 2>And and we've taken a different approach already Uh, Jeff Bradley,

0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:17.600
<v Speaker 2>who works with Corn Crenshaw and has been you know,

0:40:17.880 --> 0:40:20.760
<v Speaker 2>one of the one of the key guys. He actually

0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:24.359
<v Speaker 2>was doing some stuff that sand Hills, just kind of

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, getting stuff ready for winter, and and he

0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 2>was cruising through here and he's like, Hey, I got

0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:31.319
<v Speaker 2>some time, can I come help you out? And I'm like,

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:34.840
<v Speaker 2>we're there. Jeff Bradley's one of the.

0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Hooker shapers in the world, just just dropping by your project.

0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And and the odd thing. Odd thing is is

0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:44.879
<v Speaker 2>he's he's just been on a bulldozer. He hasn't been

0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 2>on an excavator yet. He's, uh, you know, he's he's

0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:51.080
<v Speaker 2>just here to help out. He's he's got a good

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 2>relationship with the Anderson family because Jeff did most of

0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the bunkers at Landman and and he loves it out here.

0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:01.759
<v Speaker 2>And so so, yeahs out here helping us out for

0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of time before he goes back home.

0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:08.920
<v Speaker 2>And so and then how we're thinking about the shaping

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:13.960
<v Speaker 2>process out here is we've got greens and teas and

0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 2>how the holes are going to kind of fit together.

0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.400
<v Speaker 2>But we're not taking the approach of shaping the holes

0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:25.280
<v Speaker 2>as a separate hole. We're basically sweeping from the west

0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:28.920
<v Speaker 2>side of the property and working our way across the

0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:34.880
<v Speaker 2>whole property as if it's one massive playing ground, and

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't need We kind of have an idea where

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:41.319
<v Speaker 2>grass lines are going to be. Some grass lines have

0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:44.759
<v Speaker 2>merged into a double fairway just just for the sake

0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:47.520
<v Speaker 2>of it, just because it doesn't make sense to mow

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:53.359
<v Speaker 2>a ten yard wide stretch of either long grass or

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.239
<v Speaker 2>rough grass. So we've got that. We've got, you know,

0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:00.520
<v Speaker 2>a par par three that falls away and a partially

0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:06.080
<v Speaker 2>blind with some sleepers in the front of it. Oh goodness,

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:09.879
<v Speaker 2>We've got you know, we've got like whole number ten

0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:13.400
<v Speaker 2>is kind of interesting. It's kind of got a higher

0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:16.360
<v Speaker 2>left side of the fairway, you know, it's a short,

0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:20.080
<v Speaker 2>short part four and a skinny right side of the fairway,

0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:23.440
<v Speaker 2>and you can kind of choose your own adventure. It's

0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:26.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of separated by a valley that was naturally there

0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:30.279
<v Speaker 2>that kind of runs through where twelve and ten and

0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:33.439
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff. So I just kind of used those

0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:37.000
<v Speaker 2>valleys that I seen on that topo map, not even

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.880
<v Speaker 2>thinking about where greens are on the old course, and

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:44.440
<v Speaker 2>just kind of tried to fit stuff together naturally, and

0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 2>so you know, and some some holes were building, some

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 2>holes are kind of laying there, and we're just trying

0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:57.320
<v Speaker 2>to make it. You know, cult always spoke about infinite variety,

0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:00.880
<v Speaker 2>and that's been two words that have guided and you

0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.040
<v Speaker 2>know a lot of things. I really try and make

0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:05.360
<v Speaker 2>sure that I don't repeat stuff, and all of a sudden,

0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I'll build stuff and I'll be like, damn it. You know,

0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.239
<v Speaker 2>you don't even notice it when you're doing it. You

0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:13.879
<v Speaker 2>do three or four different things on a couple different holes,

0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:17.359
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, ah shit, I did it again. It's

0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:20.759
<v Speaker 2>so hard because because that feature looks good and you

0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.040
<v Speaker 2>like building it and it's it and you want to

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of instill it, but you know, it's got to

0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.520
<v Speaker 2>fit and it's got to make its own place. Sometimes

0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 2>you can get away and do a couple of things

0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.560
<v Speaker 2>on the course. Sometimes it's one time on that whole

0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:38.080
<v Speaker 2>course that makes that hole memorable. And that's what really

0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 2>we're working hard is to try and really make this

0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:45.319
<v Speaker 2>course memorable the first time you play it and not

0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:49.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, get lost. There's so many golf courses out

0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:52.839
<v Speaker 2>there that you walk off the eighteenth hole and you're like, oh,

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I made a birdie on what the hell hole was that?

0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.759
<v Speaker 2>You know? With the bunkers, you know, they're all the

0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:04.920
<v Speaker 2>same bunkers, they're all you can't tell the bunkers apart,

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:07.640
<v Speaker 2>you know. So that's a bit. That's one of my

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:10.840
<v Speaker 2>biggest pet peeves. And that's what we're really trying to

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:13.160
<v Speaker 2>do out here is make it so that every bunker

0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:17.080
<v Speaker 2>is distinct, has its own character. Jeff Bradley and I

0:44:17.120 --> 0:44:19.480
<v Speaker 2>were talking about that this morning, about a kind of

0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:24.040
<v Speaker 2>a cool area for a bunkers where they can merge

0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:26.720
<v Speaker 2>together on two different holes, and they said to Jeff,

0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:30.279
<v Speaker 2>I said, we have to make sure that the bunkers,

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 2>the greens and the features. In like five years, if

0:44:34.520 --> 0:44:36.879
<v Speaker 2>there's a photograph of it, people are going to be like, oh,

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:40.200
<v Speaker 2>that's that's a little Dane. And if we do that,

0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.759
<v Speaker 2>we win. And if and if people are having fun

0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:45.960
<v Speaker 2>playing it, that's the biggest thing. But if we if

0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 2>we make it distinct unique, which we're really working hard at,

0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:51.520
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna win.

0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:57.680
<v Speaker 1>So, you know, there's something kind of philosophically interesting in

0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:02.439
<v Speaker 1>what you're saying. When you design a course like Old

0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Dane on a site that is frankly pretty flat from

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:08.680
<v Speaker 1>what I can see that this You know, you've kind

0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:10.680
<v Speaker 1>of alluded to this and what you're saying about it.

0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:13.680
<v Speaker 1>It's not like the most high potential site for a

0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:16.759
<v Speaker 1>golf course in the world. People are familiar with land Man.

0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes it's nearby, but a completely different kind of landscape.

0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:22.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, it can be more different in fact than

0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.440
<v Speaker 1>like Landman is so severe that it's almost hard to

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 1>have a golf course there. This is a pretty flat

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:35.040
<v Speaker 1>piece of property. And you come out of tradition that

0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.960
<v Speaker 1>takes inspiration from the land. And so when you're trying

0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:43.480
<v Speaker 1>to build a varied, memorable golf course and you're not

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:48.279
<v Speaker 1>really getting any help from the land, what do you do, Like,

0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:51.360
<v Speaker 1>where do you get your inspiration from for how to

0:45:51.400 --> 0:45:54.839
<v Speaker 1>shape things and what kinds of features to include when

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:57.080
<v Speaker 1>there's not much there in the land itself.

0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, the last thing that I want to do, Garrett,

0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:05.279
<v Speaker 2>is say I want to build the sixteenth hole at

0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:09.040
<v Speaker 2>North Barrick, or I want to do the eighth green

0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:13.440
<v Speaker 2>at sand Hills. That's the last thing I want to do. Now.

0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:16.120
<v Speaker 2>There might be a little piece of the green at

0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:18.719
<v Speaker 2>sand and I've never been out sand Hills so I

0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:20.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know, and I've never been to North Barrack, so

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. But there might be a little piece

0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:27.879
<v Speaker 2>that catches my eye of a certain hole that I've seen.

0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:33.040
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of I've computed all of this knowledge and

0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:37.000
<v Speaker 2>photos into my head and I won't even really know

0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:39.239
<v Speaker 2>what course it is, but I'll be like, ah shit,

0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:42.759
<v Speaker 2>I seen a course somewhere in the north of Scotland

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.040
<v Speaker 2>that had one thing about it that really struck me.

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:48.520
<v Speaker 2>And I'll find it and I'll be like, Okay, well

0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:51.320
<v Speaker 2>maybe there's something like this. Keep it up there, Trevor.

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:56.959
<v Speaker 2>And to be honest of the like, we've shaped one, two,

0:46:57.160 --> 0:47:02.200
<v Speaker 2>three greens already out here in the past month, and

0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:05.120
<v Speaker 2>none of them are on that drawing of the old day.

0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:08.000
<v Speaker 2>None of them are even close. Like they're all in

0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the field riffing. And that's the biggest That's That's basically

0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:14.880
<v Speaker 2>how what we do is we we kind of have

0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:20.920
<v Speaker 2>an idea of length, orientation of a whole and then

0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.919
<v Speaker 2>we riff and we just kind of be like, well

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.360
<v Speaker 2>what do we do here? And I a lot of

0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 2>times I don't We have spots for bunkers, but I

0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:34.399
<v Speaker 2>don't think about building a bunker. I shape a lot

0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.640
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff on the fairways and stuff like that,

0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.839
<v Speaker 2>and then we're also thinking about, you know what, other

0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:44.320
<v Speaker 2>what what other hazards are there. I don't want to

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:49.520
<v Speaker 2>build a a sand bunker just because there needs to

0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:54.160
<v Speaker 2>be a hazard there. We're thinking about multitude of different

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:58.920
<v Speaker 2>hazards that we've seen throughout our you know, experience, and

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:00.880
<v Speaker 2>that's what we're going to try a lot of times.

0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Abrupt contour in the fair way can mess with you

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:09.000
<v Speaker 2>just as much as a bunker, and it's easier to maintain,

0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:15.440
<v Speaker 2>so we're really being conscious about that as well. But

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:20.239
<v Speaker 2>to be I don't know how many of more of

0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:22.560
<v Speaker 2>these I got left in my career. It's tough, man like,

0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:26.840
<v Speaker 2>you can't keep building on flat sites and try and

0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:28.200
<v Speaker 2>not repeat yourself.

0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I would imagine that. It's really hard

0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:34.440
<v Speaker 1>to come up with a zillion different ideas. I'm reminded,

0:48:34.440 --> 0:48:36.279
<v Speaker 1>in fact, of a story that Bill Corr likes to

0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:40.640
<v Speaker 1>tell about working at Talking Stick building thirty six holes

0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:44.719
<v Speaker 1>at Talking Stick. Unbelievable pair of golf courses considering what

0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:47.800
<v Speaker 1>they started with. But at the beginning of that project,

0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:51.120
<v Speaker 1>Bill was saying to Ben and Dave Axland and everybody

0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:54.640
<v Speaker 1>else who was working on that project. Guys, if you

0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:59.200
<v Speaker 1>have any ideas for holes on flat land that you

0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:01.960
<v Speaker 1>want to build, then bring him to me. Because we've

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:05.399
<v Speaker 1>got to build thirty six holes on nothing. We've got

0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:07.719
<v Speaker 1>to come up with a bunch of different ideas. And

0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:11.600
<v Speaker 1>so what you're saying, if you work on flat side

0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:15.680
<v Speaker 1>after flat site, it's just really hard to keep refreshing

0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:20.080
<v Speaker 1>that well of ideas because you're not really getting much

0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 1>from the land.

0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, i'll tell you. I'll tell you another thing, Garrett.

0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I've been preparing for this because I've known it's been

0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:31.759
<v Speaker 2>coming for a decade or more. Because I knew that

0:49:31.800 --> 0:49:34.239
<v Speaker 2>when I first started getting projects, I'm not going to

0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:36.760
<v Speaker 2>get the best sites. I'm going to get some shitty sites.

0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:42.560
<v Speaker 2>And I knew that this was coming. And I studied

0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Buenos Aires Golf Club, the Mackenzie course that they built up.

0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:49.240
<v Speaker 2>He built out there. He had twelve feet of fall

0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:52.319
<v Speaker 2>over top of the whole property, and it was the

0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:55.800
<v Speaker 2>last twelve feet of fall was like in a short run.

0:49:56.280 --> 0:50:01.319
<v Speaker 2>And he just started cutting swales and taking water from

0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:05.840
<v Speaker 2>all different sections of that property to create that interest.

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:08.399
<v Speaker 2>And you know this is probably Mackenzie being a bit

0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:11.680
<v Speaker 2>of a salesman, but he said that the course does

0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:14.239
<v Speaker 2>not need to be bunkered. It's beautiful the way it is.

0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:16.640
<v Speaker 2>But he's only putting in a few bunkers because the

0:50:16.640 --> 0:50:21.280
<v Speaker 2>owner likes it, you know. So I really that really

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:25.719
<v Speaker 2>stuck out to me about a decade ago of how

0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie did it on a not spectacular rumpled rolling land.

0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And I studied it and studied it and studied it

0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:39.240
<v Speaker 2>and thought, okay, well that's that's definitely the way to

0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:43.040
<v Speaker 2>create interest is to dig swales and to move. If

0:50:43.080 --> 0:50:45.920
<v Speaker 2>you cut two feet on a flat fairway and fill

0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:50.280
<v Speaker 2>two feet, you've got links land, you know, small rumpled

0:50:50.320 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 2>links land, which is.

0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:54.160
<v Speaker 1>It's just like the dirt kind of moving dirt from

0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 1>one place to another. And you do it a few

0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:58.719
<v Speaker 1>times and all of a sudden you got and.

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Then you move your way, move your move your water

0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:05.880
<v Speaker 2>off the fairway, get it out of the way. It's

0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:10.319
<v Speaker 2>it's it seems simple, but then you also have to

0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:15.040
<v Speaker 2>be very particular in how you shape the ground. A

0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:18.359
<v Speaker 2>lot of guys, especially in the eighties and nineties, they

0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:22.279
<v Speaker 2>rolled down the fairway and on the sides and went

0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:25.040
<v Speaker 2>off the left hand side and down as you would

0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:28.279
<v Speaker 2>play the golf. Well, we know what that produces, right,

0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:33.560
<v Speaker 2>So I've learned from some of the best guys on

0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:37.600
<v Speaker 2>bulldozers to have to have done this, And one thing

0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I noticed is they kind of work in diagonal fashions

0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:43.880
<v Speaker 2>or sideways. Rod Witman was the first guy that I

0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:46.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of took notice to that. Rod shapes a lot

0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:49.840
<v Speaker 2>of stuff sideways and kind of carves out swales sideways,

0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:51.319
<v Speaker 2>and then he kind of hits it a little bit

0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:56.920
<v Speaker 2>differently and and and you have to work yourself in

0:51:57.680 --> 0:52:01.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe not all different directions, but it different direction from

0:52:01.760 --> 0:52:04.759
<v Speaker 2>the line of play otherwise. And that doesn't mean that

0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:07.440
<v Speaker 2>you can go and move dirt and do a finished

0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:09.560
<v Speaker 2>grade in the line of play if that's what you're

0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:12.600
<v Speaker 2>looking for. But you got to be make sure that

0:52:12.719 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 2>you're keeping yourself random, because you know, you can look

0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:20.200
<v Speaker 2>at a lot of modern links courses, even some of

0:52:20.239 --> 0:52:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the best courses out there, and you can I can

0:52:23.520 --> 0:52:25.360
<v Speaker 2>tell where the guy went in there and with his

0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:28.719
<v Speaker 2>bulldozer and then went, you know, ten yards to the

0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:31.759
<v Speaker 2>right and built up a little thing. And it's like

0:52:31.840 --> 0:52:35.480
<v Speaker 2>all these especially aerial photography, you can see it all

0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:41.080
<v Speaker 2>throughout these these supposedly random rolling train and then they've

0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.080
<v Speaker 2>made it not random and they're some of the best

0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:48.640
<v Speaker 2>courses in the world. But it's not a negative thing.

0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:51.080
<v Speaker 2>It's just something that I don't want to do. I

0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:55.200
<v Speaker 2>want to make sure that it's like, you know, you're

0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:58.600
<v Speaker 2>not thinking about that. So a lot of times I

0:52:58.680 --> 0:53:02.719
<v Speaker 2>put music in or a podcast and it's I'm focused

0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:06.280
<v Speaker 2>on the podcast and it's just subliminal, and that really

0:53:06.360 --> 0:53:10.799
<v Speaker 2>helps me not to focus too much on exactly what

0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing, and then you you know, end up with

0:53:13.719 --> 0:53:15.960
<v Speaker 2>happy mistakes that you can work off of when you

0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:17.200
<v Speaker 2>actually get out to focus.

0:53:17.680 --> 0:53:20.840
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting. You like to remove your kind of internal

0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:24.560
<v Speaker 1>editor when you're doing some of this stuff big time.

0:53:24.719 --> 0:53:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And this is just my process. I'm not saying

0:53:29.640 --> 0:53:33.200
<v Speaker 2>it's the best or there's there's there's guys out there

0:53:33.239 --> 0:53:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that are way better than me at this stuff. But

0:53:35.640 --> 0:53:38.600
<v Speaker 2>I just have this process where I want to make

0:53:38.640 --> 0:53:42.200
<v Speaker 2>sure that I'm not repeating and I'm doing stuff random

0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:45.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not thinking about it. I'm not being too

0:53:46.000 --> 0:53:50.840
<v Speaker 2>conscious about making you know, a bunker at Saint George's

0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Hill or you know, and that's the there's so much

0:53:55.560 --> 0:54:00.399
<v Speaker 2>golf out there, and there's so much of everything, it's

0:54:00.520 --> 0:54:05.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of hard not to replicate stuff. I I want

0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:08.600
<v Speaker 2>to say that. I'm you know, there's there's a bunch

0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of architects that out there that that profess that it's

0:54:12.640 --> 0:54:15.120
<v Speaker 2>all been done before in some way, shape or form,

0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:17.680
<v Speaker 2>So you're not going to get anything new or innovative.

0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'm I'm speaking saying it differently, but I even

0:54:22.680 --> 0:54:26.160
<v Speaker 2>though it probably is true, I can't in my head,

0:54:26.200 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 2>I cannot refuse to believe that, because that's how you

0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:33.640
<v Speaker 2>just get stifled and that that's that person who's very

0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:36.040
<v Speaker 2>well known and these architects that are very well known

0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:39.200
<v Speaker 2>with that it's all been done before. It's you're just

0:54:39.360 --> 0:54:42.680
<v Speaker 2>doing something in one way, shape or form. Even though

0:54:42.719 --> 0:54:45.200
<v Speaker 2>it's probably true there's a lot of golf out there,

0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I just can't allow myself to think that way because

0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:53.239
<v Speaker 2>then you get kind of stuck at that wall of thinking, oh, well,

0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:55.560
<v Speaker 2>it's all been done before. Maybe I should start copying

0:54:56.040 --> 0:54:59.960
<v Speaker 2>or replicating stuff, and I don't. That's the last thing

0:55:00.160 --> 0:55:02.279
<v Speaker 2>I want to do. So you know, a lot of

0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:07.960
<v Speaker 2>times I take inspiration from like mega dune sites on

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:12.040
<v Speaker 2>Google Earth. I have two different sites that are that

0:55:12.120 --> 0:55:14.600
<v Speaker 2>are in random parts of the world. No golf is

0:55:15.120 --> 0:55:19.840
<v Speaker 2>even close to it, and the dune systems change quite

0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:22.879
<v Speaker 2>frequently from year to year to year to year to year.

0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:26.399
<v Speaker 2>So I've got probably ten years of things where I've

0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:29.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I've done full routings on a dune site

0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:32.640
<v Speaker 2>out in the middle of the ocean, just to keep

0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:36.479
<v Speaker 2>myself fresh and to see something differently, and luckily enough,

0:55:36.520 --> 0:55:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the aerial imagery of this kind of gets you down

0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:42.560
<v Speaker 2>and you can see it like when Google Earth is

0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:46.560
<v Speaker 2>really good, you can see undulation. This place is probably

0:55:46.640 --> 0:55:48.840
<v Speaker 2>some of the best golf if you were to build

0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>on it, which would never happen. But that's where I

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:55.360
<v Speaker 2>start taking some inspiration from playing holds backwards on the

0:55:55.360 --> 0:56:02.120
<v Speaker 2>stuff forward sideways and you know, so anyways, I haven't

0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:03.399
<v Speaker 2>heard about that approach before.

0:56:03.440 --> 0:56:07.680
<v Speaker 1>That that's interesting. You're kind of finding random non golf places,

0:56:07.719 --> 0:56:10.440
<v Speaker 1>like pieces of terrain in the world that you can

0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:14.839
<v Speaker 1>look at digitally, and that that provides some inspiration.

0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:17.920
<v Speaker 2>And it's helped me so many times. My last my

0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Leado entry for whatever twenty twenty one was that this

0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:23.680
<v Speaker 2>is the.

0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Leado contest where people draw draw imaginary golf holes and

0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:31.880
<v Speaker 1>one is selected the winner or there are finalists and

0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:33.040
<v Speaker 1>all that kind of stuff.

0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, I had, you know, kind of

0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:38.560
<v Speaker 2>an idea of wanting to kind of do something like

0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Elbocron in Argentina, McKenzie's course that was never built.

0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:47.600
<v Speaker 1>But right, yeah, like crazy reverse you know, how many

0:56:47.600 --> 0:56:50.239
<v Speaker 1>holes with how many greens. It's you know, there's a

0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:52.840
<v Speaker 1>real like a reversible kind of element to it, or

0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:56.120
<v Speaker 1>greens are played into from a variety of different directions.

0:56:56.200 --> 0:56:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, it was. It was an eighteen old course

0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:01.399
<v Speaker 2>with nine double I'm not sure if it was meant

0:57:01.400 --> 0:57:03.200
<v Speaker 2>to be reversible or not.

0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 1>But just like Andrew's but but not laid out out

0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:09.120
<v Speaker 1>and back more around.

0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, yes, yes, correct, and and and it didn't. And

0:57:12.719 --> 0:57:17.840
<v Speaker 2>it was for a private you know, a private you know,

0:57:17.880 --> 0:57:21.600
<v Speaker 2>a private course for an estate, and so there's zero

0:57:22.400 --> 0:57:25.280
<v Speaker 2>safety so you basically walk off the green hit your

0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:28.840
<v Speaker 2>next ball. But I kind of thought about that, and

0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I got so I was kind of

0:57:32.000 --> 0:57:34.760
<v Speaker 2>not jaded by the fact that you can build this

0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:39.120
<v Speaker 2>fantasy golf hole for the lido whenever, and it could

0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:41.560
<v Speaker 2>be the best of the best, but it never relates

0:57:41.600 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 2>to how you would lay it out on an actual

0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:47.280
<v Speaker 2>golf course. So I did a routing for this, you know,

0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:52.160
<v Speaker 2>a bocron style routing, and and I picked how two

0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:55.160
<v Speaker 2>of the holes, well four of the holes interacted together.

0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:57.920
<v Speaker 2>It was a double green. One played into it from

0:57:57.960 --> 0:57:59.920
<v Speaker 2>the side as a par three, and the other one

0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:03.680
<v Speaker 2>played into it from you know, from the south to

0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the north. And then it showed how you teed off

0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:09.400
<v Speaker 2>when you crossed chrisscross that and went to sixteen and

0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:13.840
<v Speaker 2>to five, you know. So you know that's and and

0:58:13.840 --> 0:58:17.400
<v Speaker 2>and I got my inspiration from that from a natural

0:58:17.520 --> 0:58:20.600
<v Speaker 2>site that I'm not going to give up.

0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.880
<v Speaker 1>This is your special site. You can't tell anybody about it.

0:58:25.880 --> 0:58:29.680
<v Speaker 2>This is yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and the biggest

0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:32.160
<v Speaker 2>thing about it is it's very good imagery, so you

0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:34.560
<v Speaker 2>can kind of you can walk the land, which is

0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:38.680
<v Speaker 2>really cool. So so I go there sometimes a lot

0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:42.000
<v Speaker 2>of times it's it's you know, certain things that I

0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:45.000
<v Speaker 2>want to do. And that's you know, with Will Anderson

0:58:45.080 --> 0:58:48.400
<v Speaker 2>out here, he's he's he's just given free reign. He

0:58:48.480 --> 0:58:50.800
<v Speaker 2>might kind of be like, ooh, I don't know about

0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:54.360
<v Speaker 2>that trip, but let's try it out, or or he

0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:56.800
<v Speaker 2>might find a crazier idea than me. I'll be like,

0:58:56.840 --> 0:59:01.160
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, will you know. But that's what's so good.

0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:03.680
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I never would have done this project

0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:06.600
<v Speaker 2>if it with it wasn't for the Anderson family. The

0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:10.360
<v Speaker 2>client was the first and foremost reason why I did it,

0:59:10.720 --> 0:59:13.960
<v Speaker 2>because if it was another client that couldn't let me

0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.800
<v Speaker 2>just breathe and and just feel at home on this

0:59:17.960 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 2>property and with the team, I wouldn't be successful, because

0:59:24.680 --> 0:59:26.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's the last thing. When you're trying to

0:59:26.920 --> 0:59:29.920
<v Speaker 2>really focus on bringing a client the best property or

0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the best golf course that you possibly can, and then

0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:36.760
<v Speaker 2>there's peripheral stuff that you got to deal with, it

0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:39.640
<v Speaker 2>just doesn't doesn't work out well. And and so far

0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:41.760
<v Speaker 2>out here, you know, it's been really good. We got

0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:45.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of the farm boys from the Anderson

0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:49.200
<v Speaker 2>farms that are helping us out. You know, yeah, we

0:59:49.280 --> 0:59:52.400
<v Speaker 2>got Corey and Matt and Steve the superintendent, he's he

0:59:52.480 --> 0:59:55.800
<v Speaker 2>was on a bulldozer, you know, working with us, and

0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:59.640
<v Speaker 2>all these and you know Tom, and it's just so great,

0:59:59.680 --> 1:00:02.920
<v Speaker 2>you know. And then we've got a really good irrigation

1:00:03.080 --> 1:00:06.840
<v Speaker 2>contract or, ev I Irrigation. They're doing They've just done

1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:09.080
<v Speaker 2>such a great work with the wet Well so far,

1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:12.680
<v Speaker 2>so we've lined up all of these, you know, good

1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:15.600
<v Speaker 2>people to work with, and so far it's really getting

1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:19.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's really being cohesive. Now next year when

1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:21.680
<v Speaker 2>we're into the thick of it, there might be uh,

1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:24.240
<v Speaker 2>there might be a few clashes, but we always get

1:00:24.280 --> 1:00:24.640
<v Speaker 2>through that.

1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Well do you do you You've worked with some great

1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:32.280
<v Speaker 1>architects obviously, do you ever find yourself now that you're

1:00:32.280 --> 1:00:36.760
<v Speaker 1>the boss on a site kind of stealing tricks from

1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Bill Corr or Gil Hans or Rod Whitman in the

1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:43.360
<v Speaker 1>way that you're interacting with your crew. Do you ever

1:00:43.400 --> 1:00:46.439
<v Speaker 1>think about how how those architects kind of direct their

1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:49.680
<v Speaker 1>crew work with their crew and try to apply some

1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:53.720
<v Speaker 1>of that to how you're acting on site.

1:00:53.880 --> 1:00:56.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you know, I've been on the receiving on

1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>the receiving end and friends with shapers that you know

1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:04.880
<v Speaker 2>have you know, criticisms of how architects work with them.

1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:10.360
<v Speaker 2>So I'm very conscious about that now that I'm in

1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:10.880
<v Speaker 2>this role.

1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:13.480
<v Speaker 1>So what's the worst thing a golf architect can do

1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:14.200
<v Speaker 1>to a shaper?

1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, we have we're as shapers are creative, we have

1:01:19.200 --> 1:01:22.840
<v Speaker 2>big egos. Sometimes if you don't cut if you don't

1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:27.400
<v Speaker 2>smash it out. So we have these egos. So you

1:01:27.400 --> 1:01:31.560
<v Speaker 2>know what Bill and Raw and Dave Axlin and Ben

1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:35.040
<v Speaker 2>have always preached for the past ten years is don't

1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:39.120
<v Speaker 2>get married to that, and you do you get married

1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:42.200
<v Speaker 2>to Why would I build something and present it to

1:01:42.880 --> 1:01:47.840
<v Speaker 2>somebody like Bill if it wasn't my best flip and work,

1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't. So now your best work comes up to

1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:56.640
<v Speaker 2>be the chopping block. And let's just say, you know,

1:01:56.720 --> 1:01:59.920
<v Speaker 2>if if Bill likes you know, half of it, I'm like, oh, okay,

1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:02.840
<v Speaker 2>that's good. He likes none of it. You just sink,

1:02:03.280 --> 1:02:05.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's natural.

1:02:05.760 --> 1:02:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, that's that's what happens.

1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's a it's a lot of pressure when

1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:13.640
<v Speaker 2>one of the best golf course architects is like, yeah,

1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:15.560
<v Speaker 2>I think we need to go a different route. Well

1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:20.560
<v Speaker 2>what do you like of it? Well? Nothing, you know,

1:02:20.960 --> 1:02:22.640
<v Speaker 2>so you have to have and then and then you

1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:25.560
<v Speaker 2>just realize you're working with these guys and it's so

1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:28.640
<v Speaker 2>free flowing and we we jump in and out of

1:02:28.760 --> 1:02:33.480
<v Speaker 2>and that's one thing, is we moving forward. I don't

1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:37.600
<v Speaker 2>really consider myself the boss. I just you know, I

1:02:37.640 --> 1:02:41.000
<v Speaker 2>help direct people and if I'm very adamant about doing

1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:43.600
<v Speaker 2>something because I see a mistake about to happen, then

1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:47.320
<v Speaker 2>I'll interject. But I really Bill has taught us to

1:02:47.400 --> 1:02:51.320
<v Speaker 2>be like, you know, just do what you guys do best.

1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:54.360
<v Speaker 2>You're the professionals, and I'll just kind of come in

1:02:54.440 --> 1:02:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know, guide and direct, just like a shepherd,

1:02:58.080 --> 1:03:00.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, like that's what Bill is is a very

1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:04.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's a good shepherd of how to keep people.

1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:09.000
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't really force people or get people into the lane.

1:03:09.640 --> 1:03:12.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, we don't have lanes. We just have you know,

1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:16.600
<v Speaker 2>highways that we kind of need to stay on. And

1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:20.720
<v Speaker 2>so so I've really learned over the years how to

1:03:20.920 --> 1:03:24.640
<v Speaker 2>how to be well. It's always a working process on

1:03:24.760 --> 1:03:28.080
<v Speaker 2>trying to be humble as you can, but try to

1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:30.880
<v Speaker 2>be humble in what you're trying to do and to

1:03:31.160 --> 1:03:34.040
<v Speaker 2>recognize that the people that are doing stuff, if you

1:03:34.080 --> 1:03:39.200
<v Speaker 2>don't portray your idea properly, they're not going to get

1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:41.680
<v Speaker 2>it right. And then how do you say to that

1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:45.400
<v Speaker 2>person who spent time doing a good job, how do

1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:49.840
<v Speaker 2>you say, you know, that's probably not right. And I

1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:52.400
<v Speaker 2>always put it on me like saying, hey, guys, I

1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:54.400
<v Speaker 2>have no idea what I'm doing here, but let's just

1:03:54.440 --> 1:03:56.400
<v Speaker 2>try and get something so we can work off of.

1:03:56.760 --> 1:03:58.760
<v Speaker 2>And that isn't that is my process. That's a lot

1:03:58.800 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 2>of our processes. We're field based architects, don't. We don't

1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:09.000
<v Speaker 2>conform to preconceived notions, even when we've walked the site

1:04:09.080 --> 1:04:11.880
<v Speaker 2>for that much. There's only a few special sites where

1:04:11.920 --> 1:04:15.760
<v Speaker 2>you have these preconceived notions, and that involves sand hills.

1:04:16.440 --> 1:04:19.240
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it's where you do not want to

1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:25.120
<v Speaker 2>mess up anything and you know you've routed something special

1:04:25.160 --> 1:04:28.040
<v Speaker 2>over it. That's when you have preconceived notions of what

1:04:28.320 --> 1:04:32.240
<v Speaker 2>this and even that it's minor adjustments to make it

1:04:32.360 --> 1:04:33.640
<v Speaker 2>playable for golf.

1:04:33.720 --> 1:04:38.200
<v Speaker 1>So so Trevor, you're you're kind of I don't know

1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 1>if you see yourself this way, but but you're part

1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:47.680
<v Speaker 1>of a current wave right now of golf architects who

1:04:47.760 --> 1:04:52.760
<v Speaker 1>have spent years shaping for some of the top names

1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.560
<v Speaker 1>in the business still the top names in the business,

1:04:56.520 --> 1:05:02.200
<v Speaker 1>but these former shapers now kind of solo architects are

1:05:02.240 --> 1:05:06.200
<v Speaker 1>now getting their shots at projects. And so i'd include

1:05:06.240 --> 1:05:10.360
<v Speaker 1>you alongside people like Kyle Franz and Brian Schneider and

1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Blake Conant and Jimmy Craig and Ky Golby and Riley

1:05:14.360 --> 1:05:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Johns and Keith Rebb. There's sort of this cohort that

1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:23.440
<v Speaker 1>is now since the golf course development industry is in

1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:27.960
<v Speaker 1>a surge right now now getting their shots, and I've

1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.840
<v Speaker 1>been really interested to see the work coming out of

1:05:30.880 --> 1:05:34.720
<v Speaker 1>this new wave. And I'm wondering if you think that

1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:38.800
<v Speaker 1>this kind of rising generation of architects should try to

1:05:38.880 --> 1:05:44.360
<v Speaker 1>distinguish themselves from Corn Crenshaw and from Tom Doak, from

1:05:44.480 --> 1:05:49.240
<v Speaker 1>gil Hants. Should they be intentionally trying to do something different,

1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:53.440
<v Speaker 1>fresh and new, or should it be more of a continuation.

1:05:54.920 --> 1:05:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what, I don't really I mean, thank

1:05:57.240 --> 1:06:00.280
<v Speaker 2>you for including me in some of that. I have

1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:03.760
<v Speaker 2>no idea how the hell that happened, or even if

1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:06.080
<v Speaker 2>it's true, I don't really Well, you're building.

1:06:05.800 --> 1:06:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Your basically your own golf course right now. You're totally

1:06:08.360 --> 1:06:10.520
<v Speaker 1>rebuilding a nine hole golf course, turning it into a

1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:12.880
<v Speaker 1>twelve hole golf course. A lot of young architects out

1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:15.080
<v Speaker 1>there would really like to build a twelve hole golf course.

1:06:16.200 --> 1:06:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's true. I do feel blessed at to be

1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:22.080
<v Speaker 2>in this position. And but you know, those are some

1:06:22.240 --> 1:06:24.800
<v Speaker 2>big names, and I've looked up to those guys for

1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:26.840
<v Speaker 2>a long time and seeing a lot of their work,

1:06:26.840 --> 1:06:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just like always blown away about how good

1:06:29.480 --> 1:06:32.160
<v Speaker 2>those guys are. And I it's hard for me to

1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:36.240
<v Speaker 2>be even considered in that conversation. But I'll get off

1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:40.280
<v Speaker 2>of that. I don't, you know, I asked, you know,

1:06:40.400 --> 1:06:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I walked around with mister Kaiser, Mike Kaiser for three

1:06:44.400 --> 1:06:48.320
<v Speaker 2>days which was pretty special in Saint Lucia, and chatted

1:06:48.360 --> 1:06:50.080
<v Speaker 2>with him about this and I said, hey, you know

1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:53.440
<v Speaker 2>what you know? He's like, so, what are you going

1:06:53.520 --> 1:06:55.200
<v Speaker 2>to do? Are you going to get out on your own?

1:06:55.240 --> 1:06:57.280
<v Speaker 2>At some point? I'm like, I'm just happy where I'm

1:06:57.320 --> 1:06:59.800
<v Speaker 2>at and this is great being able to work with

1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Bill and Ben. And I'm like and asked him, I said, well,

1:07:03.240 --> 1:07:06.720
<v Speaker 2>what do you you know us guys? Do you know

1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:10.600
<v Speaker 2>we've taken all of this knowledge that we've gained from

1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Bill and Ben and I don't I don't want to

1:07:14.080 --> 1:07:16.960
<v Speaker 2>do the same stuff that Bill and Ben do. I mean,

1:07:17.200 --> 1:07:22.360
<v Speaker 2>that's them. You know, we're helping build their designs and

1:07:21.720 --> 1:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>we're we're assisting them, and they're gracious enough to give

1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:29.400
<v Speaker 2>us some free reign on some stuff, but they're really

1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:33.040
<v Speaker 2>it's there. It's always their designs. None of it is

1:07:33.080 --> 1:07:39.200
<v Speaker 2>really our design. But I don't necessarily want I mean,

1:07:39.200 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 2>it would be highly flattering if in ten years, you know,

1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:47.880
<v Speaker 2>we're doing as good of work as Corn Crenshaw. But

1:07:47.920 --> 1:07:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to do something different, just personally, stuff that

1:07:54.600 --> 1:07:58.320
<v Speaker 2>I've thought about in my head, an expression of me

1:07:58.680 --> 1:08:02.080
<v Speaker 2>and and you know, my new partners Rob and tadd

1:08:03.160 --> 1:08:06.680
<v Speaker 2>to be something that's an expression of us, not necessarily

1:08:08.120 --> 1:08:12.080
<v Speaker 2>what Bill and Ben would haven't and I would hope

1:08:12.080 --> 1:08:15.520
<v Speaker 2>the same goes for other guys. I think we need

1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:20.320
<v Speaker 2>to do that in order to advance golf architecture. You know,

1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:24.879
<v Speaker 2>we get there's so many different stages of and eras

1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:28.720
<v Speaker 2>of golf architecture, and you know, I never really thought

1:08:28.720 --> 1:08:30.680
<v Speaker 2>about it, but I think you're right. You know, I

1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:34.200
<v Speaker 2>think as you know, some of these guys that are

1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:38.000
<v Speaker 2>in their forties and thirties and fifties are coming out

1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:43.000
<v Speaker 2>of these certain different schools. I would just hope that

1:08:43.120 --> 1:08:45.880
<v Speaker 2>they do do something different so that we can advance

1:08:46.080 --> 1:08:49.400
<v Speaker 2>things we don't and not for the worst. I think

1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:53.720
<v Speaker 2>it's like we've seen a dark era of golf architecture.

1:08:54.600 --> 1:08:58.040
<v Speaker 2>And we've seen the Golden era of golf architecture, so

1:08:58.800 --> 1:09:02.680
<v Speaker 2>we have two different eras to learn from. And I

1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:05.200
<v Speaker 2>think that the dark era should be studied just as

1:09:05.280 --> 1:09:08.599
<v Speaker 2>much as the Golden Age of golf architecture, and then

1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:12.479
<v Speaker 2>the little bits in between, just to make sure that

1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:15.639
<v Speaker 2>we're not going back, and I think we can. Can

1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:19.880
<v Speaker 2>you imagine if we if you know, the sand Hills

1:09:19.880 --> 1:09:24.600
<v Speaker 2>of Nebraska gets five more golf courses, that's not it

1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:30.280
<v Speaker 2>can it necessarily be unless somebody does something different on

1:09:30.400 --> 1:09:32.519
<v Speaker 2>every piece of that ground. You're going to play all

1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:35.920
<v Speaker 2>five of those courses and you'll be like, Okay, well

1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm playing the same but I just want to play

1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:43.080
<v Speaker 2>sand Hills because it's the best. You know, if you're

1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:47.120
<v Speaker 2>in that zone and you're building good golf of course

1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:52.800
<v Speaker 2>lay Land and you do, you know, it's it's going

1:09:52.840 --> 1:09:56.360
<v Speaker 2>to be the same feel and style, even though it's amazing.

1:09:57.320 --> 1:09:59.680
<v Speaker 2>But I don't. I think we need to kind of

1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:05.559
<v Speaker 2>differentiate ourselves and kind of do do something different than

1:10:06.320 --> 1:10:10.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, what Tom and Gill and Jim and Bill

1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:13.800
<v Speaker 2>and Ben and those guys have done. I think it

1:10:13.840 --> 1:10:17.599
<v Speaker 2>would be disservice to them if we didn't do something

1:10:18.720 --> 1:10:20.320
<v Speaker 2>that's expressively ours.

1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, well, and you may not have an answer

1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:26.600
<v Speaker 1>to this question. I think it's an unanswerable question. But

1:10:26.680 --> 1:10:29.960
<v Speaker 1>I've been wondering where that difference is going to come from,

1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:35.080
<v Speaker 1>because in terms of process, it seems like you, especially

1:10:35.520 --> 1:10:39.240
<v Speaker 1>as well as other architects from your general generation that

1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I've spoken to, you're devoted to the design build method

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and working in the field. And that's something profound that

1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:50.920
<v Speaker 1>you all have learned from Bill and Ben and Tom

1:10:51.000 --> 1:10:54.120
<v Speaker 1>and Gil, and you've learned how to do that really well.

1:10:54.360 --> 1:10:58.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, the design build method has been burnished to

1:10:58.880 --> 1:11:02.320
<v Speaker 1>a shine by this era of golf architecture, and it

1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:05.160
<v Speaker 1>seems like everybody's carrying that on and believes in kind

1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:09.800
<v Speaker 1>of the religion of working in the field. But the

1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.840
<v Speaker 1>difference has to come from something else then, I guess,

1:11:12.840 --> 1:11:15.439
<v Speaker 1>because the process is going to be simple similar, You're

1:11:15.479 --> 1:11:19.280
<v Speaker 1>not going to go back to design contract and you know,

1:11:19.360 --> 1:11:23.240
<v Speaker 1>designing from an office it doesn't sound like. But how

1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:26.799
<v Speaker 1>then do you differentiate your architecture from the past generation.

1:11:27.439 --> 1:11:31.639
<v Speaker 1>Is it by introducing more bits of artificiality, not blending

1:11:31.680 --> 1:11:34.679
<v Speaker 1>everything in? Is there something there? Is it by looking

1:11:34.680 --> 1:11:39.360
<v Speaker 1>at different influences different sources of inspiration than perhaps Bill

1:11:39.400 --> 1:11:43.200
<v Speaker 1>and Ben and Tom and Gil would have. And I'm

1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:45.960
<v Speaker 1>talking about these architects in the past tense. They're still working,

1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:52.320
<v Speaker 1>they're still doing amazing work out there, but cant do

1:11:52.400 --> 1:11:55.280
<v Speaker 1>you have some way of starting to answer that question

1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:57.880
<v Speaker 1>of where the difference in the new architecture is going

1:11:57.920 --> 1:11:58.439
<v Speaker 1>to come from?

1:11:59.280 --> 1:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>You know where that you know where this is going

1:12:01.080 --> 1:12:03.759
<v Speaker 2>to change and where we're going to be well where

1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:07.679
<v Speaker 2>and this is kind of a little bit off off,

1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:09.799
<v Speaker 2>but you know where we're going to get really screwed

1:12:09.960 --> 1:12:15.840
<v Speaker 2>is aire where it's going to It's going to change

1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:17.880
<v Speaker 2>what we do. And I don't know how much time

1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:21.960
<v Speaker 2>we got, but think about this. The most complex part

1:12:22.120 --> 1:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>of golf architecture is the routing. There's very few people

1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that are good at it. You can go and look

1:12:28.840 --> 1:12:33.640
<v Speaker 2>at any any city in America and look at a

1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:36.759
<v Speaker 2>plan view of it, and you can pick out flaws

1:12:36.800 --> 1:12:42.439
<v Speaker 2>in the routing easily. Whether they've shaped wholes parallel to

1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:45.000
<v Speaker 2>each other like this, and then at the end they've

1:12:45.080 --> 1:12:48.439
<v Speaker 2>changed it and come back. That's a massive flaw. And

1:12:48.479 --> 1:12:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot and and a lot of those golf architects.

1:12:51.880 --> 1:12:55.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, either we're just recently practicing or still are practicing.

1:12:55.960 --> 1:13:00.439
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's really bad. But if you get AI

1:13:01.320 --> 1:13:08.120
<v Speaker 2>and compress that into build me a routing of a

1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:09.840
<v Speaker 2>well there you go.

1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Build me a thousand routings.

1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Build me a thousand routings. Is here, here and here,

1:13:14.880 --> 1:13:16.960
<v Speaker 2>and and I'm going to change where the pump station.

1:13:17.040 --> 1:13:19.639
<v Speaker 2>We're going to change where the lake is. Boom computes

1:13:20.160 --> 1:13:23.800
<v Speaker 2>and then to this sounds this sounds horrible. But then

1:13:23.960 --> 1:13:32.720
<v Speaker 2>any young guy that has the computer skills can just talk,

1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:36.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, and and and you have to have you know, knowledge,

1:13:37.920 --> 1:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>can upload that and to talk to a contractor. All

1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:44.120
<v Speaker 2>these contractors will uh, you know, if the owner, the

1:13:44.160 --> 1:13:47.000
<v Speaker 2>ownership might even just do it. You know, I want

1:13:47.040 --> 1:13:48.639
<v Speaker 2>to build a golf course. I'm going to get this

1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:55.040
<v Speaker 2>contractor to plug my AI routing into their GPS system. Ye,

1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>the bulldozer guys get it to rint and it's fricking close.

1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:00.760
<v Speaker 2>And and that's what scared the ship.

1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:04.599
<v Speaker 1>Maybe not maybe the maybe the bulldozer robots.

1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, well that's that's that's right, But that's what

1:14:07.520 --> 1:14:11.160
<v Speaker 2>scared the ship out of the Atlito. And and from

1:14:11.160 --> 1:14:15.160
<v Speaker 2>what I understand, it's still happening now whether or not

1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:18.920
<v Speaker 2>this is a sci fi reality of something that's going

1:14:18.960 --> 1:14:21.439
<v Speaker 2>to happen in the future, I don't know. I still

1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:25.880
<v Speaker 2>think that there's going to be there's going to be

1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:30.360
<v Speaker 2>a space for the craftsmen that like like like us,

1:14:30.600 --> 1:14:34.040
<v Speaker 2>that are are there to put I don't think we'll

1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>get left out because there's something that you know, robots

1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:41.160
<v Speaker 2>and AI won't be able to do. I'm a firm

1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:44.480
<v Speaker 2>believer in that are our brains are far more complex

1:14:44.560 --> 1:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and AI and and our creativity and the human beings

1:14:48.360 --> 1:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>are far superior to whatever AI can produce. But as

1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:55.439
<v Speaker 2>far as getting it started, there's going to be guys

1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:58.639
<v Speaker 2>out there that figure that out, which are far smarter

1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:02.559
<v Speaker 2>than I am at computer and drawings. They'll plug it

1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>into a computer, get the best, get a bill Core routing,

1:15:06.479 --> 1:15:11.520
<v Speaker 2>a bill Core tom dope breed of a routing, and

1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:16.040
<v Speaker 2>then they'll get it. Then they'll paint it with the

1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>best bunker placement for the demographic of golfer that is

1:15:20.880 --> 1:15:26.040
<v Speaker 2>going to play that course, and then they'll highlight it.

1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:28.639
<v Speaker 2>And then you get an agronomist in there and he'll

1:15:28.800 --> 1:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>tune the turf up better than Shinnecock. And there we

1:15:32.800 --> 1:15:35.600
<v Speaker 2>go you got one of the best golf courses in

1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:42.720
<v Speaker 2>the world, and you know who's rating it. Well, that's

1:15:42.760 --> 1:15:43.920
<v Speaker 2>a different subject.

1:15:44.439 --> 1:15:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Butting it, it won't be me anymore, all right, I'm

1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>not going to be.

1:15:52.439 --> 1:15:56.000
<v Speaker 2>We're laughing about this and we're taking this into into

1:15:56.000 --> 1:15:59.120
<v Speaker 2>the future. But I think there's got to be given

1:15:59.240 --> 1:16:03.200
<v Speaker 2>some space for AI and the routing process on a

1:16:03.240 --> 1:16:08.040
<v Speaker 2>topographical map, for just fluidity, and it's going to keep

1:16:08.080 --> 1:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>like there's so many things that are so complex when

1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>it comes to routing. You want to think about wear paths,

1:16:13.000 --> 1:16:14.680
<v Speaker 2>you want to think about cart paths, you want to

1:16:14.680 --> 1:16:19.160
<v Speaker 2>think about times, you know, tea times, and how they're

1:16:19.160 --> 1:16:22.439
<v Speaker 2>going to move. Is there a slowdown effect in that routing?

1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:25.479
<v Speaker 2>Maybe not a jam, but is there a slowdown? How

1:16:25.479 --> 1:16:29.200
<v Speaker 2>can you mitigate that all of these factors are going

1:16:29.280 --> 1:16:32.840
<v Speaker 2>to get into something to where it's a seamless, free

1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:37.879
<v Speaker 2>flowing course that is like highly profitable because golf courses

1:16:37.880 --> 1:16:40.080
<v Speaker 2>don't make a shit ton of money nowadays, even the

1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>best ones. It's like profit at the end of the year.

1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Isn't amazing, isn't like millions and millions of dollars? You know,

1:16:49.360 --> 1:16:51.800
<v Speaker 2>it takes a lot and it's a passion kind of

1:16:51.840 --> 1:16:56.800
<v Speaker 2>product project for these these owners. Some of them really do,

1:16:57.000 --> 1:16:59.200
<v Speaker 2>depending on if you're in the Hamptons and you got

1:16:59.240 --> 1:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>really rich, you know, private clubs, but but you know,

1:17:04.320 --> 1:17:07.840
<v Speaker 2>public golf courses don't don't do nearly as well.

1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:13.799
<v Speaker 1>Right, So, so regarding the AI thing that you're mentioning,

1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:16.400
<v Speaker 1>right this this is in your response to my question

1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>about where is the difference in the new generation going

1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:23.720
<v Speaker 1>to come from? And so is the difference that that

1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:26.760
<v Speaker 1>new architects are going to find ways of working with

1:17:27.640 --> 1:17:32.000
<v Speaker 1>AI to produce new kinds of things or are the

1:17:32.000 --> 1:17:35.680
<v Speaker 1>best new architects going to be the holdouts against the

1:17:35.720 --> 1:17:39.439
<v Speaker 1>AI wave, the architects who insist on the kind of

1:17:39.880 --> 1:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>human approach to architecture. Because I've been thinking about this

1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:47.040
<v Speaker 1>myself from my perspective as a writer and a podcaster,

1:17:47.200 --> 1:17:50.720
<v Speaker 1>because there are products right now, AI driven products that

1:17:50.800 --> 1:17:53.200
<v Speaker 1>can replace a lot of the functions that I am

1:17:53.240 --> 1:17:56.639
<v Speaker 1>responsible for. It can write things much faster than I do,

1:17:57.080 --> 1:17:59.439
<v Speaker 1>It can come up with it, it can learn my voice

1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:04.639
<v Speaker 1>and probably produce podcasts where you know, it's there's someone

1:18:04.640 --> 1:18:07.479
<v Speaker 1>who sounds a lot like me interviewing someone who sounds

1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot like you. And maybe it'll get to a

1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:13.479
<v Speaker 1>point where people can't really tell the difference. And so

1:18:13.720 --> 1:18:17.400
<v Speaker 1>my conflict has been do I work with our new

1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:21.519
<v Speaker 1>robot overlords and try to become optimized as a human

1:18:21.600 --> 1:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>that way, or do I say no, I am going

1:18:25.120 --> 1:18:28.040
<v Speaker 1>to be human and flawed, and I am going to

1:18:28.080 --> 1:18:31.879
<v Speaker 1>make that the thing that is different about me. Because

1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:33.960
<v Speaker 1>everybody else is going to give in to the AI.

1:18:34.479 --> 1:18:36.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to hold out, and there are going to

1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:38.440
<v Speaker 1>be people who still.

1:18:38.160 --> 1:18:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Want that I'm holding out, Garrett. That's just not fun. Man.

1:18:44.240 --> 1:18:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Like building golf courses what we do. And that's another

1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>thing that the best golf courses that are built are

1:18:52.000 --> 1:18:55.719
<v Speaker 2>because the team that built it had fun. You can

1:18:55.800 --> 1:18:58.880
<v Speaker 2>tell they had fun. If you're following the build, you

1:18:58.920 --> 1:19:01.840
<v Speaker 2>can tell they're having a good time. They're ripping back

1:19:01.880 --> 1:19:04.640
<v Speaker 2>and forth at each other on social media nowadays, but

1:19:05.040 --> 1:19:07.559
<v Speaker 2>if we didn't have social media, you could, you know,

1:19:07.760 --> 1:19:11.000
<v Speaker 2>call each other up and whatever. But that's the fun

1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:14.439
<v Speaker 2>part of it, is the interaction between humans building it

1:19:14.560 --> 1:19:20.360
<v Speaker 2>and the collaboration part of building a golf course, like

1:19:20.439 --> 1:19:23.800
<v Speaker 2>collaborating with everybody building a golf course. Sure you can,

1:19:23.960 --> 1:19:28.280
<v Speaker 2>you can, you know, be a you know an Ai

1:19:28.439 --> 1:19:33.840
<v Speaker 2>dweeb sitting in his basement building these best golf course

1:19:33.960 --> 1:19:37.680
<v Speaker 2>routings and then build it and get all this you know,

1:19:37.880 --> 1:19:40.720
<v Speaker 2>acclaim for building one of the best golf course. But

1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:43.160
<v Speaker 2>did he have fun? No, he let somebody else do it,

1:19:43.520 --> 1:19:46.639
<v Speaker 2>so or she let somebody else do it, let Ai

1:19:46.760 --> 1:19:49.799
<v Speaker 2>do it. So you're just going to be and unless

1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:52.439
<v Speaker 2>they hide it, but I don't think he can, you know,

1:19:52.640 --> 1:19:56.840
<v Speaker 2>so just you know what we're I'm holding out. I'm

1:19:56.880 --> 1:19:59.920
<v Speaker 2>going to do this until I'm old and gray or

1:20:00.240 --> 1:20:05.120
<v Speaker 2>or crippled. But you know, it's just so fun. I really,

1:20:05.240 --> 1:20:07.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the past twenty years, there's been maybe

1:20:07.640 --> 1:20:10.320
<v Speaker 2>a few times in my whole life, even on the

1:20:10.360 --> 1:20:13.400
<v Speaker 2>shittiest rain days or snow days, where I've woken up

1:20:13.400 --> 1:20:16.120
<v Speaker 2>in the morning and been like, damn, I don't want

1:20:16.120 --> 1:20:19.719
<v Speaker 2>to go out there today generally, and I'm being very honest.

1:20:19.760 --> 1:20:24.479
<v Speaker 2>I wake up every morning and whether it's bright, sunny,

1:20:25.479 --> 1:20:30.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty degrees or ninety degrees, and I'm like, frick, I

1:20:30.960 --> 1:20:33.920
<v Speaker 2>can't wait to get out there. So that to me

1:20:34.080 --> 1:20:37.439
<v Speaker 2>is a dream. And the people, you know, people that

1:20:37.720 --> 1:20:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I've done jobs where I've just been like, oh, I

1:20:41.280 --> 1:20:44.040
<v Speaker 2>got to go and do this, and I can't, I

1:20:44.200 --> 1:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>physically can't. But building golf courses, designing golf courses, there's

1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:53.280
<v Speaker 2>so many different facets to it, so many different things

1:20:53.320 --> 1:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you can do within a day or within a year

1:20:56.840 --> 1:21:00.719
<v Speaker 2>or months. That just makes so much variety being fun

1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:05.680
<v Speaker 2>and different things. It's it's it's amazing. Yeah, I love it.

1:21:05.760 --> 1:21:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I love it to death. It's it's it's it's a passion.

1:21:09.439 --> 1:21:13.160
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I've never ever would have thought of

1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:16.400
<v Speaker 2>myself being in this industry. I was. I used to

1:21:17.040 --> 1:21:21.280
<v Speaker 2>fly fish and snowboard and and skateboard. I didn't want

1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:24.639
<v Speaker 2>to do golf. Golf was just something that my dad

1:21:24.680 --> 1:21:28.839
<v Speaker 2>and his buddies did on weekends. And you know, before

1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I started this, I wanted to be a war correspondent,

1:21:31.360 --> 1:21:35.360
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so I the only reason I'm doing

1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:36.960
<v Speaker 2>what I'm doing right now is because I had to

1:21:37.000 --> 1:21:41.240
<v Speaker 2>pay for school, because you know, I didn't grow up

1:21:41.240 --> 1:21:45.400
<v Speaker 2>in a very wealthy household. And my first job was

1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:50.200
<v Speaker 2>working construction on a golf course and just realizing, hey,

1:21:50.240 --> 1:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>these shaper guys travel the world without getting shot at.

1:21:55.080 --> 1:22:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe that's the way to go, you know. So so yeah, well, yeah,

1:22:02.120 --> 1:22:02.920
<v Speaker 2>my mom liked it.

1:22:03.960 --> 1:22:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, I'm sure she was. Yes, golf course construction.

1:22:07.760 --> 1:22:09.760
<v Speaker 1>If you're going to go to Russia, at least be

1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:11.080
<v Speaker 1>on a golf course.

1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:16.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, exactly, so so yeah, I don't know. It's

1:22:16.760 --> 1:22:19.360
<v Speaker 2>it's it's been a ride, man, it's been great. It's

1:22:19.400 --> 1:22:20.080
<v Speaker 2>been so fun.

1:22:21.320 --> 1:22:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Are there any ongoing or upcoming King Colin's Dormer projects

1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:29.840
<v Speaker 1>that we should be aware of. I know you've got

1:22:29.840 --> 1:22:32.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot on your plate right now, but are there

1:22:32.240 --> 1:22:36.080
<v Speaker 1>some plans coming together for the next few years, things

1:22:36.120 --> 1:22:38.280
<v Speaker 1>that we should look forward to with this this new

1:22:39.240 --> 1:22:40.920
<v Speaker 1>supergroup that you all have.

1:22:42.120 --> 1:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are we can't really there's some we can't

1:22:45.000 --> 1:22:49.000
<v Speaker 2>talk about. But the one that's really exciting is seven

1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:54.440
<v Speaker 2>mile seven mile North. Nothing is going to be unbelievable.

1:22:54.479 --> 1:22:58.599
<v Speaker 1>So this is out in Tasmania working with Matt Gogin

1:22:58.720 --> 1:23:02.200
<v Speaker 1>out there and his group, a little spit of land

1:23:02.479 --> 1:23:06.519
<v Speaker 1>not far from the Hobart International Airport where Mike Clayton

1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:09.160
<v Speaker 1>and Mike DeVries have been building the first golf course

1:23:09.520 --> 1:23:12.559
<v Speaker 1>King Collins Dormers doing doing the second one. Sandy Land

1:23:12.720 --> 1:23:13.719
<v Speaker 1>right next to the ocean.

1:23:13.760 --> 1:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Pretty cool, very very sandy. And what's what's cool about

1:23:17.040 --> 1:23:23.160
<v Speaker 2>it is it's very different than Clayton Debris and Ponta's site.

1:23:24.200 --> 1:23:29.760
<v Speaker 2>It's got some really cool, longer rolling terrain, which you know,

1:23:29.920 --> 1:23:34.000
<v Speaker 2>I can imagine, you know that the artistry that Mike

1:23:34.200 --> 1:23:37.240
<v Speaker 2>and those guys had to do out there, especially when

1:23:37.280 --> 1:23:39.479
<v Speaker 2>you get a lot of choppy dunes, there's a lot

1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:42.200
<v Speaker 2>of manipulation you still have to do to make golf

1:23:42.200 --> 1:23:45.120
<v Speaker 2>holds work. And they did a fantastic job from the

1:23:45.200 --> 1:23:48.400
<v Speaker 2>from the photos that I've seen and foot Robert and

1:23:48.479 --> 1:23:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Tad have told me and showed me about. So yeah,

1:23:52.240 --> 1:23:55.200
<v Speaker 2>that one, I'm very excited. I mean, they can't speak highly,

1:23:56.320 --> 1:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, highly enough about Matt Gogan. So that's again

1:23:59.479 --> 1:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>that's one one of the things that you have to

1:24:02.360 --> 1:24:05.640
<v Speaker 2>get right is your client and your owner and and

1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:08.160
<v Speaker 2>make sure he's on board with everything that you want

1:24:08.200 --> 1:24:12.880
<v Speaker 2>to do. And and you know, and then you know,

1:24:13.040 --> 1:24:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Rob and Tatters are still working on their Bounty Club course,

1:24:16.360 --> 1:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>which I'm not necessarily a part of at all, So

1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:21.559
<v Speaker 2>that was done previous, and I'm doing the Old Dane

1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:24.960
<v Speaker 2>which is previous to it, you know, our partnership, and

1:24:25.000 --> 1:24:30.479
<v Speaker 2>then you know the twenty one Club in you know

1:24:30.520 --> 1:24:33.000
<v Speaker 2>in South Carolina, there I mean, that thing's going to

1:24:33.040 --> 1:24:35.479
<v Speaker 2>be pretty cool too. So we're just kind of, you know,

1:24:36.240 --> 1:24:38.519
<v Speaker 2>we're all really excited to get going on that. And

1:24:38.560 --> 1:24:42.320
<v Speaker 2>it's all just about timing, right, you know. There's a

1:24:42.400 --> 1:24:45.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff coming in and we just are making

1:24:45.360 --> 1:24:48.960
<v Speaker 2>sure that we're available and that we can put all

1:24:49.000 --> 1:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>of our best foot forward and we can all be

1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:57.160
<v Speaker 2>available on all these sites together or separately at one

1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:00.559
<v Speaker 2>time or another to where you know, we're we're getting

1:25:00.560 --> 1:25:03.160
<v Speaker 2>the best out of the site and and ourselves. So

1:25:04.640 --> 1:25:07.000
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, there's there's some big ones coming up, I'll

1:25:07.000 --> 1:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>tell you that, some really big ones, and it's it's

1:25:10.840 --> 1:25:13.600
<v Speaker 2>pretty exciting. But we we've you know, we've pushed some

1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:17.160
<v Speaker 2>of them back, you know, just to make sure that

1:25:17.520 --> 1:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>we can finish things and that I can get finished

1:25:20.560 --> 1:25:24.680
<v Speaker 2>with what I'm doing out here and and that, and

1:25:24.720 --> 1:25:26.600
<v Speaker 2>then we can make sure that we get it the

1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:30.280
<v Speaker 2>attention that we need. So but it's exciting, man.

1:25:30.960 --> 1:25:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Cool. Well, thanks for coming on the podcav and and

1:25:33.479 --> 1:25:35.360
<v Speaker 1>good luck with everything you're working on.

1:25:36.200 --> 1:25:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it, Garrett, and I hope

1:25:38.760 --> 1:25:41.120
<v Speaker 2>we didn't ramble too much for this thing, not at all.

1:25:41.200 --> 1:25:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Time to get excited on some of this stuff.

1:25:44.120 --> 1:25:47.679
<v Speaker 1>So rambling is the brand. Here is the is the goal.

1:25:52.880 --> 1:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Scrambled egg.

1:25:54.200 --> 1:26:01.679
<v Speaker 1>That's quite good, the rambled egg. Let's leave it there.

1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Thanks trev cool Man, Thanks appreciate it.

1:26:16.240 --> 1:26:19.960
<v Speaker 1>This episode of the Friday Golf Podcast was produced by

1:26:20.040 --> 1:26:24.519
<v Speaker 1>PJ Clark. Thank you, PJ. If you enjoyed this kind

1:26:24.520 --> 1:26:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of deep dive into golf architecture, I can just about

1:26:27.360 --> 1:26:31.120
<v Speaker 1>guarantee that you would like what we're doing in Club TFE.

1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:34.519
<v Speaker 1>A lot of our exclusive content in Club TFE has

1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:37.559
<v Speaker 1>to do with golf courses, in golf course design. We

1:26:37.680 --> 1:26:41.200
<v Speaker 1>have weekly course profiles, which are in depth analyzes of

1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:44.919
<v Speaker 1>what we consider to be very interesting or great golf courses,

1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and we also have a weekly feature called Design Notebook,

1:26:48.320 --> 1:26:51.519
<v Speaker 1>which basically keeps you up to date on everything going

1:26:51.560 --> 1:26:55.000
<v Speaker 1>on in the world of golf architecture. Certainly in this

1:26:55.120 --> 1:26:59.040
<v Speaker 1>upcoming Design Notebook, we'll be talking about Trevor Dohmer and

1:26:59.200 --> 1:27:04.240
<v Speaker 1>his work with Tad King and Rob Collins. So again, CLUBTFE,

1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:07.240
<v Speaker 1>the Frida Egg dot Com slash membership, that's where you

1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:10.479
<v Speaker 1>can find out what else we're offering within clubtf is

1:27:10.520 --> 1:27:13.840
<v Speaker 1>not just content, so I think that you should check

1:27:13.880 --> 1:27:16.559
<v Speaker 1>that out and if you do, thank you so much.

1:27:16.800 --> 1:27:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Thank you also for listening to this episode, and we'll

1:27:20.160 --> 1:27:21.960
<v Speaker 1>be back again soon with another